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vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mirrored_image"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Mirrored image</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Mirrored_image-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Asterisk_as_a_letter?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Asterisk_as_a_letter?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Asterisk as a letter?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Asterisk_as_a_letter?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wales_in_Portuguese" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wales_in_Portuguese"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Wales in Portuguese</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Wales_in_Portuguese-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Pennsylvania_Dutch" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Pennsylvania_Dutch"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Pennsylvania Dutch</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Pennsylvania_Dutch-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Welsche" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Welsche"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Welsche</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Welsche-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Old English was the language of the Anglo-Saxons</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Romans_or_foreigners" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Romans_or_foreigners"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Romans or foreigners</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Romans_or_foreigners-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>french diphtong "au" from Latin incomprehensible?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Walhalla_or_Valhalla" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Walhalla_or_Valhalla"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Walhalla or Valhalla</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Walhalla_or_Valhalla-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Title_and_introduction_of_the_article"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Title and introduction of the article</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Reorganize" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Reorganize"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Reorganize</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Reorganize-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>What about Wallis/Valais canton/region?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Organizing_the_information" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Organizing_the_information"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Organizing the information</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Organizing_the_information-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Contradiction" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Contradiction"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Contradiction</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Contradiction-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Factual error on situation in Switzerland</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Removed incorrect information from Yiddish section</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-valskr" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#valskr"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>valskr</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-valskr-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-External_links_modified" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#External_links_modified"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span 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href="/wiki/File:Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/15px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg" decoding="async" width="15" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/23px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/31px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1144" data-file-height="1847"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle_Ages" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages">Middle Ages</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/50px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg" decoding="async" width="50" height="81" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/75px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/100px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1144" data-file-height="1847"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239009302">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG/28px-The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG/42px-The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG/56px-The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG 2x" data-file-width="267" data-file-height="267"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Middle_Ages" title="Portal:Middle Ages">Middle Ages portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle_Ages" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages">WikiProject Middle Ages</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/The_Middle_Ages" class="mw-redirect" title="The Middle Ages">the Middle Ages</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Middle_Ages" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Middle Ages">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Middle Ages</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Middle Ages</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Middle Ages articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Middle_Ages_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Middle Ages articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle_Ages/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Globe_of_letters.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/25px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/38px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/50px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Languages" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages">Languages</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Globe_of_letters.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/55px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png" decoding="async" width="55" height="55" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/83px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/110px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Globe_of_letters.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/28px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/42px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Globe_of_letters.svg/56px-Globe_of_letters.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Language" title="Portal:Language">Language portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Languages" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages">WikiProject Languages</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Language" title="Language">languages</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Languages" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Languages">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Languages</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Languages</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">language articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_language_articles" title="Category:Low-importance language articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Languages/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Languages/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:ParseTree.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/25px-ParseTree.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/38px-ParseTree.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/50px-ParseTree.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="120" data-file-height="120"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics">Linguistics</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics/Etymology" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics/Etymology">Etymology</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics/Theoretical" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics/Theoretical">Theoretical Linguistics</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:ParseTree.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/50px-ParseTree.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/75px-ParseTree.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/100px-ParseTree.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="120" data-file-height="120"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Noun-linguistics.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Noun-linguistics.svg/25px-Noun-linguistics.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Noun-linguistics.svg/38px-Noun-linguistics.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Noun-linguistics.svg/51px-Noun-linguistics.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="29" data-file-height="32"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Linguistics" title="Portal:Linguistics">Linguistics portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics">WikiProject Linguistics</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Linguistics" title="Linguistics">linguistics</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Linguistics" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Linguistics</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Linguistics</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Linguistics articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Linguistics articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Wiktionary-logo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Wiktionary-logo.svg/26px-Wiktionary-logo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="26" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Wiktionary-logo.svg/40px-Wiktionary-logo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Wiktionary-logo.svg/53px-Wiktionary-logo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="370" data-file-height="350"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics/Etymology" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics/Etymology">Etymology Task Force</a></b>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:S-NVsymbol.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/S-NVsymbol.png/28px-S-NVsymbol.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/S-NVsymbol.png/42px-S-NVsymbol.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/78/S-NVsymbol.png/55px-S-NVsymbol.png 2x" data-file-width="267" data-file-height="243"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics/Theoretical" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics/Theoretical">Theoretical Linguistics Task Force</a></b>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Md_apr2004_4.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Md_apr2004_4.jpg/19px-Md_apr2004_4.jpg" decoding="async" width="19" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Md_apr2004_4.jpg/29px-Md_apr2004_4.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Md_apr2004_4.jpg/38px-Md_apr2004_4.jpg 2x" data-file-width="306" data-file-height="400"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_History" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject History">History</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Md_apr2004_4.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Md_apr2004_4.jpg/50px-Md_apr2004_4.jpg" decoding="async" width="50" height="65" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Md_apr2004_4.jpg/75px-Md_apr2004_4.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/Md_apr2004_4.jpg/100px-Md_apr2004_4.jpg 2x" data-file-width="306" data-file-height="400"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/P_history.svg/31px-P_history.svg.png" decoding="async" width="31" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/P_history.svg/47px-P_history.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/P_history.svg/62px-P_history.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:History" title="Portal:History">History portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_History" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject History">WikiProject History</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the subject of <a href="/wiki/History" title="History">History</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_History" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject History">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">History</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject History</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject History</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">history articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_history_articles" title="Category:Low-importance history articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_History/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject History/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Romania.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/35px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="23" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/53px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/70px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="400"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Romania" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Romania">Romania</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Romania.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/80px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="53" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/120px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/160px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="400"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/32px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/48px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Flag_of_Romania.svg/64px-Flag_of_Romania.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="400"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Romania" title="Portal:Romania">Romania portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Romania" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Romania">WikiProject Romania</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Romania" title="Romania">Romania</a>-<a href="/wiki/List_of_Romania-related_topics" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Romania-related topics">related topics</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Romania" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Romania">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Romania</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Romania</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Romania</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Romania articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Romania_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Romania articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Romania/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Romania/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding:0"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background:transparent;width:100%"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0">To-do list:</th></tr><tr><td style="text-align:left;padding:5px;background-color:white;border:1px solid #c0c090;margin-top:5px"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><div class="hlist plainlinks" style="text-align:center;font-size:90%;"><ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Romania%2Fto_do&action=edit">edit</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Romania%2Fto_do&action=history">history</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Romania%2Fto_do&action=watch">watch</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Romania%2Fto_do&action=purge">purge</a></li></ul> </div> <table style="background:none;color:inherit;width:auto;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align:top;"> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/75px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/100px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span><br/><div style="width: 55px; height: 0px;"></div> </td> <td> <div style="position: relative; left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; z-index: 15;">Here are some tasks awaiting attention: <ul style="font-size: 100%; margin: 0px; padding: 0.3em 0px 0.3em 25px;"> <li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles">Article requests</a></i> :</b> <div> <ul><li>Help <a href="/wiki/Romania" title="Romania">Romania</a> reach at least <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GOOD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GOOD">GA</a>-status</li> <li>Help <b><a href="/wiki/History_of_Romania" title="History of Romania">History of Romania</a></b> get <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GOOD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GOOD">WP:GOOD</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Romania/Requested_articles" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Romania/Requested articles">Request an article</a> or create a missing one</li></ul> </div></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">Assess</a></i> :</b> <div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Romania/Assessments" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Romania/Assessments">Assess</a> all articles tagged for this project that have not been assessed for <b><a href="/wiki/Category:Unassessed_Romania_articles" title="Category:Unassessed Romania articles">quality</a></b></li></ul> </div></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Cleanup" title="Wikipedia:Cleanup">Cleanup</a></i> :</b> <div> <ul><li>Review the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://bambots.brucemyers.com/cwb/bycat/Romania.html">Romania-related cleanup listing</a></li> <li>Normalize the use of "<a href="/wiki/Northern_Bukovina" class="mw-redirect" title="Northern Bukovina">Northern Bukovina</a>" (capitalized) and "<a href="/wiki/Northern_Bessarabia" class="mw-redirect" title="Northern Bessarabia">Northern Bessarabia</a>" (Bessarabian part of <a href="/wiki/Chernivtsi_Oblast" title="Chernivtsi Oblast">Chernivtsi Oblast</a>) all over Wikipedia</li></ul> </div></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia:Disambiguation">Disambiguation</a></i> :</b> <div> <ul><li>Disambiguate <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_Romania">project articles</a> and <a class="external text" href="http://tools.wmflabs.org/dplbot/ch/dab_challenge.php">get points</a></li></ul> </div></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles" title="Wikipedia:Writing better articles">Expand</a></i> :</b> <div> <ul><li>Expand <a href="/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_Romania" title="Postage stamps and postal history of Romania">Postage stamps and postal history of Romania</a></li></ul> </div></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Translation" title="Wikipedia:Translation">Translate</a></i> :</b> <div> <ul><li>Translate <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://toolserver.org/~daniel/WikiSense/CategoryIntersect.php?wikilang=ro&wikifam=.wikipedia.org&basecat=Romania&basedeep=3&templates=&mode=al&go=Scan&format=html&userlang=en">Romania-related articles from the Romanian Wikipedia</a></li> <li>Translate and keep in sync with the project versions in other languages: <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projet:Roumanie" class="extiw" title="fr:Projet:Roumanie">Projet:Roumanie</a> <span class="languageicon">(in French)</span>, <a href="https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proiect:Rom%C3%A2nia" class="extiw" title="ro:Proiect:România">Proiect:România</a> <span class="languageicon">(in Romanian)</span>, <a href="https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82:%D0%A0%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%8B%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8F" class="extiw" title="ru:Википедия:Проект:Румыния">Проект:Румыния</a> <span class="languageicon">(in Russian)</span></li></ul> </div></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">Unreferenced</a></i> :</b> * Add more reference to <a href="/wiki/FC_CFR_Timi%C8%99oara" class="mw-redirect" title="FC CFR Timișoara">FC CFR Timișoara</a>.</li><li><b><i>Other</i> :</b> <div> <ul><li>Make use in <a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Romania_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Romania articles">articles</a> of the <b><a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Images_from_Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_in_Romania" class="extiw" title="commons:Category:Images from Wiki Loves Monuments 2011 in Romania">newly contributed images (about 5800!!)</a></b> from the <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wiki_Loves_Monuments_2011_in_Romania" class="extiw" title="commons:Commons:Wiki Loves Monuments 2011 in Romania">Wiki Loves Monuments Romania 2011</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://wikilovesmonuments.ro/">WLM Romania external site</a>)</li> <li>Review <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexNewArtBot/RomaniaSearchResult" title="User:AlexNewArtBot/RomaniaSearchResult">newly created Romania-related articles</a></b></li> <li>Check the articles <b><a href="/wiki/Category:Romania_articles_needing_expert_attention" title="Category:Romania articles needing expert attention">needing expert attention</a></b> or other <a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Romania_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Romania articles">work</a>, and help with some of the items</li> <li>Create <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Awards_by_WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:Awards by WikiProject">Awards for WikiProject Romania</a></li> <li>Contribute photos related to Romania at <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:WikiProject_Romania" class="extiw" title="commons:Commons:WikiProject Romania">Commons:WikiProject Romania</a>. Organize <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Romania" class="extiw" title="commons:Category:Romania">Romania related images</a> on Commons. See also <b><a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:WikiProject_Romania/Tasks" class="extiw" title="commons:Commons:WikiProject Romania/Tasks">media-related tasks</a></b></li></ul> </div></li> </ul> </div> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-move" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/36px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png" decoding="async" width="36" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/54px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/72px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="36" data-file-height="40"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">On 1 August 2023, it was proposed that this article be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">moved</a> from <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walhaz&redirect=no">Walhaz</a> to <a href="/wiki/*Walhaz" title="*Walhaz">*Walhaz</a>. The result of <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1169875405#Requested_move_1_August_2023" title="Special:PermanentLink/1169875405">the discussion</a> was <b>moved</b>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Re,_move_to_wiktionary" data-mw-thread-id="h-Re,_move_to_wiktionary-2006-01-16T18:06:00.000Z"><span id="Re.2C_move_to_wiktionary"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Re,_move_to_wiktionary-2006-01-16T18:06:00.000Z"></span>Re, move to wiktionary<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Re,_move_to_wiktionary-2006-01-16T18:06:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Re, move to wiktionary"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dbachmann-2006-01-16T18:06:00.000Z-Re,_move_to_wiktionary"></span>I disagree. If there is not enough material here yet, the article may be merged with <a href="/wiki/Etymology_of_Vlach" class="mw-redirect" title="Etymology of Vlach">Etymology of Vlach</a>, which is essentially about the same word/concept. <a href="/wiki/User:Dbachmann" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Dbachmann">dab</a> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dbachmann" title="User talk:Dbachmann">(<b>ᛏ</b>)</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Dbachmann-2006-01-16T18:06:00.000Z-Re,_move_to_wiktionary" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dbachmann-2006-01-16T18:06:00.000Z-Re,_move_to_wiktionary"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dbachmann-2006-01-16T18:06:00.000Z-Re,_move_to_wiktionary"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mirrored_image" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mirrored_image"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Mirrored_image"></span>Mirrored image<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Mirrored_image"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Mirrored image"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>The picture of the coin is mirrored as is the faximile upon which it was created. As much as contributions are very much welcome, the contributors dealing with ancient scripts should pay more attention, I suppose. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Asterisk_as_a_letter?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Asterisk_as_a_letter?-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z"><span id="Asterisk_as_a_letter.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Asterisk_as_a_letter?-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z"></span>Asterisk as a letter?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Asterisk_as_a_letter?-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Asterisk as a letter?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Psiphiorg-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z-Asterisk_as_a_letter?"></span>From the article: </p> <dl><dd>With the Old Germanic name <i>*Walhaz</i>, plural <i>*Walhôz</i>, adjectival form <i>*walhiska</i>- ...</dd></dl> <p>I'm not aware of the asterisk being (or representing) an Old German letter, and there is no reference to such on the <a href="/wiki/Old_High_German" title="Old High German">Old High German</a> page. There is also no footnote on this page that the asterisk might refer to. What does this asterisk represent here? --<a href="/wiki/User:Psiphiorg" title="User:Psiphiorg">ΨΦorg</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Psiphiorg" title="User talk:Psiphiorg">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Psiphiorg-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z-Asterisk_as_a_letter?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 23 October 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Psiphiorg-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z-Asterisk_as_a_letter?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Psiphiorg-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z-Asterisk_as_a_letter?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jfruh-2009-01-13T17:06:00.000Z-Psiphiorg-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z"></span>In historical lingusitics, an asterisk before a word denotes the fact that the word has not been attested, but has been reconstructed by linguists based on its descendants. --<a href="/wiki/User:Jfruh" title="User:Jfruh">Jfruh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jfruh" title="User talk:Jfruh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Jfruh-2009-01-13T17:06:00.000Z-Psiphiorg-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 13 January 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jfruh-2009-01-13T17:06:00.000Z-Psiphiorg-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jfruh-2009-01-13T17:06:00.000Z-Psiphiorg-2008-10-23T19:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wales_in_Portuguese" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wales_in_Portuguese-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wales_in_Portuguese-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z"></span>Wales in Portuguese<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wales_in_Portuguese-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Wales in Portuguese"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bepp-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z-Wales_in_Portuguese"></span>Can someone tell me why "País de Gales" (literally translated: "The Country of Wales") for "Wales" in Portuguese? And so, consequently there is the term "galês" (or, alternatively, "a língua galêsa") for the "Welsh" language? Would there be any connection or related pattern to the name "William" traditionally being translated as "Guilherme" in Portuguese? <a href="/wiki/User:Bepp" title="User:Bepp">Bepp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bepp" title="User talk:Bepp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Bepp-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z-Wales_in_Portuguese" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bepp-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z-Wales_in_Portuguese"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bepp-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z-Wales_in_Portuguese"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jfruh-2009-07-09T21:47:00.000Z-Bepp-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z"></span>Not sure but it French, anyway, the letter W in other languages often becomes a G (i.e. William - Guillame). Perhaps it is the same phenomenon? --<a href="/wiki/User:Jfruh" title="User:Jfruh">Jfruh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jfruh" title="User talk:Jfruh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Jfruh-2009-07-09T21:47:00.000Z-Bepp-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:47, 9 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jfruh-2009-07-09T21:47:00.000Z-Bepp-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jfruh-2009-07-09T21:47:00.000Z-Bepp-2009-07-09T21:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ad43-2009-07-11T05:08:00.000Z-Jfruh-2009-07-09T21:47:00.000Z"></span>Course it is. Even the <a href="/wiki/De_Gaulle" class="mw-redirect" title="De Gaulle">De Gaulle</a> family seems to have ancestors called <a href="/wiki/Van_de_Walle" title="Van de Walle">Van de Walle</a>, which is Dutch. <a href="/wiki/User:Ad43" title="User:Ad43">Ad43</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ad43" title="User talk:Ad43">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Ad43-2009-07-11T05:08:00.000Z-Jfruh-2009-07-09T21:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:08, 11 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ad43-2009-07-11T05:08:00.000Z-Jfruh-2009-07-09T21:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ad43-2009-07-11T05:08:00.000Z-Jfruh-2009-07-09T21:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Pennsylvania_Dutch" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pennsylvania_Dutch-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Pennsylvania_Dutch-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"></span>Pennsylvania Dutch<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Pennsylvania_Dutch-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Pennsylvania Dutch"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z-Pennsylvania_Dutch"></span>The article currently claims that "Welschhinkel" and "Welschkann" are the Penn Dutch names for Turkey and Maize respectively and that is should be literally translated as "French" grain. I'm no expert but surely the proper translation would be foreign grain as 1. maize is not french and never has been and 2. the article goes into significant depth to explain the origin of this word as essentially relating to things "foreign" to a particular group of people, the Germanic tribes. <a href="/wiki/User:Arawn" title="User:Arawn">Alex McKee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arawn" title="User talk:Arawn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z-Pennsylvania_Dutch" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:32, 4 September 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z-Pennsylvania_Dutch"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z-Pennsylvania_Dutch"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jfruh-2009-09-05T15:10:00.000Z-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"></span>It's true that, as the article indicates, "welsch" in origin means "foreign," but it's possible that in Switzerland in the 16th century (the origin of Pa. Dutch) the meaning had narrowed to mean the Romance-speakers in France. If maize entered Germany via France, that would explain the meaning. The question is, what is standard Pa. Dutch for "French"? --<a href="/wiki/User:Jfruh" title="User:Jfruh">Jfruh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jfruh" title="User talk:Jfruh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Jfruh-2009-09-05T15:10:00.000Z-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:10, 5 September 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jfruh-2009-09-05T15:10:00.000Z-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jfruh-2009-09-05T15:10:00.000Z-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Scientist_or_Philosopher-20240601151300-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"></span>In the Italian language corn/maize is called mais or "grano turco", literally "Turkish wheat". Etymologically it's called like that 'cause of the literal translation ""wheat of the turkey" (the bird) as far as I know. <a href="/wiki/User:Scientist_or_Philosopher" title="User:Scientist or Philosopher">Scientist or Philosopher</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Scientist_or_Philosopher" title="User talk:Scientist or Philosopher">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Scientist_or_Philosopher-20240601151300-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:13, 1 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Scientist_or_Philosopher-20240601151300-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Scientist_or_Philosopher-20240601151300-Arawn-2009-09-04T22:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Welsche" data-mw-thread-id="h-Welsche-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Welsche-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z"></span>Welsche<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Welsche-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Welsche"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-77.12.56.187-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z-Welsche"></span>As a native German speaker I may perhaps be considered as a kind of "native informant". I this role I'd like to suggest to treat the word "Welscher/Welsche" as a historic word. I have never in my 52 years of earthly life come across anybody using that word, either in written or spoken German. </p><p>G. Berkemer <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/77.12.56.187" title="Special:Contributions/77.12.56.187">77.12.56.187</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:77.12.56.187&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:77.12.56.187 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-77.12.56.187-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z-Welsche" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-77.12.56.187-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z-Welsche"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-77.12.56.187-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z-Welsche"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Florian_Blaschke-2010-12-29T17:32:00.000Z-77.12.56.187-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z"></span>You're only an informant for the region where you live, at best. There are definitely regions where the word "welsch"/"walsch" is still used, even if all of them may be outside Germany (there's no reason to exclude Austrians, South Tyrolians, Swiss and Pennsylvania Dutch). Always be careful and don't generalise from your own limited experience – I doubt you've been to everywhere in the German <i>Sprachraum</i>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Florian_Blaschke" title="User:Florian Blaschke">Florian Blaschke</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Florian_Blaschke" title="User talk:Florian Blaschke">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Florian_Blaschke-2010-12-29T17:32:00.000Z-77.12.56.187-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:32, 29 December 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Florian_Blaschke-2010-12-29T17:32:00.000Z-77.12.56.187-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Florian_Blaschke-2010-12-29T17:32:00.000Z-77.12.56.187-2010-01-20T20:27:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:10:00.000Z-Welsche"></span>I am also a native German, and the word welsch is not only historical but also a more sophisticated and a little pejorative word to describe a Frenchman or an Italian.13:13, 4 January 2011 (UTC)<a href="/wiki/User:Ampsivare" title="User:Ampsivare">Ampsivare</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ampsivare&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Ampsivare (page does not exist)">talk</a>) </p> <dl><dd>Sorry, Florian, but G. Berkemer is right. Historical forms are always available for people who want to make humorous usage, methinks, but that doesn't make them current. And as for dialect forms, you have to identify them as such. Telling the English-speaking user that Welsche is standard German usage is really misleading. Besides, we shouldn't be too snippy with newcomers to Wiki. --<a href="/wiki/User:Doric_Loon" title="User:Doric Loon">Doric Loon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doric_Loon" title="User talk:Doric Loon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:10:00.000Z-Welsche" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:10:00.000Z-Welsche"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:10:00.000Z-Welsche"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Florian_Blaschke-2011-04-28T16:46:00.000Z-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:10:00.000Z"></span>If a word is still used in several varieties of German (not only in dialectal German, but also Standard German, for example Swiss Standard German), it can hardly be called "historical". That was my whole point. If G. Berkemer is oblivious of that fact, it doesn't change the fact, however much G. Berkemer may be a native speaker of German. German is a multicentric language, just like English. If the term <i>fall</i> for <i>autumn</i> sounds archaic to a native speaker of English, that doesn't make the term historical. --<a href="/wiki/User:Florian_Blaschke" title="User:Florian Blaschke">Florian Blaschke</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Florian_Blaschke" title="User talk:Florian Blaschke">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Florian_Blaschke-2011-04-28T16:46:00.000Z-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Florian_Blaschke-2011-04-28T16:46:00.000Z-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Florian_Blaschke-2011-04-28T16:46:00.000Z-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons" data-mw-thread-id="h-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons-2010-01-24T13:13:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons-2010-01-24T13:13:00.000Z"></span>Old English was the language of the Anglo-Saxons<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons-2010-01-24T13:13:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Old English was the language of the Anglo-Saxons"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-203.161.75.138-2010-01-24T13:13:00.000Z-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons"></span>According to the Oxford English Dictionary, Old English is the language of the Anglo-Saxons. So the meaning of wilisc in the introductory paragraph should be changed to 'foreign, non-Anglosaxon, Cymric'. The Dutch reference doesn't mean any person from England which contained Cymric people.<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/203.161.75.138" title="Special:Contributions/203.161.75.138">203.161.75.138</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:203.161.75.138&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:203.161.75.138 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-203.161.75.138-2010-01-24T13:13:00.000Z-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:13, 24 January 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-203.161.75.138-2010-01-24T13:13:00.000Z-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-203.161.75.138-2010-01-24T13:13:00.000Z-Old_English_was_the_language_of_the_Anglo-Saxons"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Romans_or_foreigners" data-mw-thread-id="h-Romans_or_foreigners-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Romans_or_foreigners-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z"></span>Romans or foreigners<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Romans_or_foreigners-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Romans or foreigners"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z-Romans_or_foreigners"></span>If "welsh" means "foreigner", why didn't the Anglo-Saxons call the Scotts and Picts as such? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Nestorius_Auranites&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Nestorius Auranites (page does not exist)">Nestorius Auranites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nestorius_Auranites" title="User talk:Nestorius Auranites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z-Romans_or_foreigners" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 21 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z-Romans_or_foreigners"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z-Romans_or_foreigners"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ad43-2010-02-23T22:16:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z"></span>Good question. I have no answer. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Ad43" title="User:Ad43">Ad43</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ad43" title="User talk:Ad43">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Ad43-2010-02-23T22:16:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 23 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ad43-2010-02-23T22:16:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ad43-2010-02-23T22:16:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-21T21:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-26T15:40:00.000Z-Ad43-2010-02-23T22:16:00.000Z"></span>Because "Welsh" (and similar words) meant not simply "foreigner", but "Romanised foreigner". See also <a href="/wiki/History_of_the_term_Vlach" class="mw-redirect" title="History of the term Vlach">History of the term Vlach</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Ghmyrtle" title="User:Ghmyrtle">Ghmyrtle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ghmyrtle" title="User talk:Ghmyrtle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-26T15:40:00.000Z-Ad43-2010-02-23T22:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:40, 26 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-26T15:40:00.000Z-Ad43-2010-02-23T22:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-26T15:40:00.000Z-Ad43-2010-02-23T22:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-26T15:40:00.000Z"></span>Did the Anglo-Saxons and Germans care whether a foreigner was romanised or not? Did it matter? Foreigners are foreigners after all. If you want to call a foreigner but a specific ethnonym you call him by that specific ethnonym not by the name 'foreigner'. It does not make sense. There is no equivalent for 'romanised' in the Germanic languages after all. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Nestorius_Auranites&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Nestorius Auranites (page does not exist)">Nestorius Auranites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nestorius_Auranites" title="User talk:Nestorius Auranites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-26T15:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:47, 27 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-26T15:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-26T15:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-121.127.200.1-2022-05-12T14:44:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z"></span>This is a good point. But do you really know if the Isle Saxons used the term Welsh in the days of yore in the same way as they do now? As for the same term variously being used for some specific people by some at some times and for foreigners more generally by others at other times, I will say I am reminded of the Gaelic terms Gall and Lochlannach, and I am sure there are slurs used by American and Australian Saxons that have gone from being specific to general or general to specific. Maybe in some Saxon dialect at the time it was felt Welsh had some specific connotation that was not universal; or maybe they encounted the British first and called them Welsh and then felt there was some need to differentiate the Picts and Scots. Closely related cultural group, or even different people in the same cultural group, maybe at slightly different times, can get very different ideas as to the exact meaning of a word. I'm reminded of all those who insist that Gaelic isn't spoken in Éirinn... <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/121.127.200.1" title="Special:Contributions/121.127.200.1">121.127.200.1</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:121.127.200.1&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:121.127.200.1 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-121.127.200.1-2022-05-12T14:44:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:44, 12 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-121.127.200.1-2022-05-12T14:44:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-121.127.200.1-2022-05-12T14:44:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-27T23:43:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z"></span>Yes, they did differentiate between different cultural backgrounds. From <a href="/wiki/John_Davies_(historian)" title="John Davies (historian)">John Davies</a>, <i>A History of Wales</i>, p.69:<blockquote><p>"It is often claimed that the word 'Welsh' is a contemptuous word used by Germanic-speaking peoples to describe foreigners. Yet a glance at the dictionary of any of the Teutonic languages will show that that is not its only meaning. 'Welsh' was not used by Germanic speakers to describe peoples living to the east of them; to the English, <i>walh-stod</i> meant an interpreter, but they had a different word for a translator from Danish. It would appear that 'Welsh' meant not so much foreigners as peoples who had been Romanized; other versions of the word may be found along the borders of the Empire - the Walloons of Belgium, the Welsch of the Italian Tyrol and the Vlachs of Romania - and the <i>welschnuss</i>, the walnut, was the nut of the Roman lands. This recognition of the persistence of the Roman tradition is striking, particularly when it is placed alongside the continuance of the Brittonic language and its successor...."</p></blockquote></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Ghmyrtle" title="User:Ghmyrtle">Ghmyrtle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ghmyrtle" title="User talk:Ghmyrtle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-27T23:43:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 27 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-27T23:43:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-27T23:43:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-27T21:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T00:11:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-27T23:43:00.000Z"></span>Davies is reconsidering the definition of 'Welsh' as 'foreigner'. He says: "It is often claimed." He doesn't seem to buy into the definition of 'Welsh' as 'foreigner'. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Nestorius_Auranites&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Nestorius Auranites (page does not exist)">Nestorius Auranites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nestorius_Auranites" title="User talk:Nestorius Auranites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T00:11:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-27T23:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T00:11:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-27T23:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T00:11:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-27T23:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T00:17:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Please read it again. He is stating that it is often claimed that it is used as a <i>contemptuous</i> word for foreigner, when that is not its only meaning - it is a word used for Romanised foreigners. <a href="/wiki/User:Ghmyrtle" title="User:Ghmyrtle">Ghmyrtle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ghmyrtle" title="User talk:Ghmyrtle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T00:17:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:17, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T00:17:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T00:17:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T00:17:00.000Z"></span>He says:"It would appear that 'Welsh' meant not so much foreigners as peoples who had been Romanized." He doesn't say "Romanised foreigners" he says "Romanised peoples". Surely, for the Germans "Romanised peoples" were foreigners, but you cannot make up a term on your own just to win the argument. But then why would 'walh' shift from a vague definition ('foreigner') to a specific one ('Romanised peoples'). Can anybody explain that? Is there another word for 'foreigner' in Germanic languages by the way? You need to explain why 'walh' was not applied to other foreigners. If a word is not used in practice with a meaning hypothetically assigned to it, then this word means something else. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Nestorius_Auranites&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Nestorius Auranites (page does not exist)">Nestorius Auranites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nestorius_Auranites" title="User talk:Nestorius Auranites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T00:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:23, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T00:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T00:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T11:31:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z"></span>I don't "need to explain" anything - I'm simply quoting a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">reliable source</a>. But perhaps you could explain your opinion - unsupported by any evidence that I've seen - that the term "'walh' shift[ed] from a vague definition ('foreigner') to a specific one..." <a href="/wiki/User:Ghmyrtle" title="User:Ghmyrtle">Ghmyrtle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ghmyrtle" title="User talk:Ghmyrtle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T11:31:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:31, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T11:31:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ghmyrtle-2010-02-28T11:31:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T19:16:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z"></span>Where does Davies mention 'romanised foreigner'? In the article 'walha', it is said: "Thus, by Germanic speakers this name was generalized first onto all Celts, and later onto all Romans." But at the beginning it is said:"Walh (singular) or Walha (plural) (ᚹᚨᛚᚺᚨ) is an ancient Germanic word, meaning "foreigner", "stranger" or "roman", German: welsch. The word can be found in Old High German walhisk, meaning "Roman, in Old English wilisc, meaning "foreign, non-Anglo-Saxon, Cymric", and in Old Norse as valskr, meaning "French"." From where did the definition as foreigner come? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Nestorius_Auranites&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Nestorius Auranites (page does not exist)">Nestorius Auranites</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nestorius_Auranites" title="User talk:Nestorius Auranites">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T19:16:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:16, 28 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T19:16:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T19:16:00.000Z-Nestorius_Auranites-2010-02-28T10:23:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?" data-mw-thread-id="h-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z"><span id="french_diphtong_.22au.22_from_Latin_incomprehensible.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z"></span>french diphtong "au" from Latin incomprehensible?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: french diphtong "au" from Latin incomprehensible?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-118.96.143.95-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?"></span>saltare > sauter; falsus > faux; salvare > sauver; alter > autre; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/118.96.143.95" title="Special:Contributions/118.96.143.95">118.96.143.95</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:118.96.143.95&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:118.96.143.95 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 01:15, 9 April 2010 (UTC) <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/118.96.143.95" title="Special:Contributions/118.96.143.95">118.96.143.95</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:118.96.143.95&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:118.96.143.95 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 01:15, 9 April 2010 (UTC) <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/118.96.143.95" title="Special:Contributions/118.96.143.95">118.96.143.95</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:118.96.143.95&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:118.96.143.95 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-118.96.143.95-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:11, 9 April 2010 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-118.96.143.95-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-118.96.143.95-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z-french_diphtong_"au"_from_Latin_incomprehensible?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nortmannus-2012-01-27T00:53:00.000Z-118.96.143.95-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z"></span>Late Latin <i>*assaltus</i> > Old French <i>assault</i> > English <a href="/wiki/Assault" title="Assault">assault</a>; Late Latin <i>*caldaro</i> > Old Norman-French <i>cauldron</i> > English <a href="/wiki/Cauldron" title="Cauldron">cauldron</a> (French chaudron)<a href="/wiki/User:Nortmannus" title="User:Nortmannus">Nortmannus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nortmannus" title="User talk:Nortmannus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Nortmannus-2012-01-27T00:53:00.000Z-118.96.143.95-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:53, 27 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nortmannus-2012-01-27T00:53:00.000Z-118.96.143.95-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nortmannus-2012-01-27T00:53:00.000Z-118.96.143.95-2010-04-09T01:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Garik-2012-01-27T14:38:00.000Z-Nortmannus-2012-01-27T00:53:00.000Z"></span>This is a very old section, which doesn't need further discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Garik" title="User:Garik">garik</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Garik" title="User talk:Garik">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Garik-2012-01-27T14:38:00.000Z-Nortmannus-2012-01-27T00:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 27 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Garik-2012-01-27T14:38:00.000Z-Nortmannus-2012-01-27T00:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Garik-2012-01-27T14:38:00.000Z-Nortmannus-2012-01-27T00:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Walhalla_or_Valhalla" data-mw-thread-id="h-Walhalla_or_Valhalla-2010-06-02T20:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Walhalla_or_Valhalla-2010-06-02T20:59:00.000Z"></span>Walhalla or Valhalla<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Walhalla_or_Valhalla-2010-06-02T20:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Walhalla or Valhalla"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Codrinb-2010-06-02T20:59:00.000Z-Walhalla_or_Valhalla"></span>I am wondering if Walhalla or Valhalla (Old Norse Valhöll) also derive from Walha?! <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Codrinb" title="User:Codrinb">Codrinb</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrinb" title="User talk:Codrinb">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Codrinb" title="Special:Contributions/Codrinb">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Codrinb-2010-06-02T20:59:00.000Z-Walhalla_or_Valhalla" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 2 June 2010 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Codrinb-2010-06-02T20:59:00.000Z-Walhalla_or_Valhalla"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Codrinb-2010-06-02T20:59:00.000Z-Walhalla_or_Valhalla"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jumahess-2010-09-04T11:05:00.000Z-Walhalla_or_Valhalla"></span>No, it doesn't derive from <i>Walha</i>. Valhöll is a composite word made from <i>Valir</i> which means 'slain, slaughtered' and <i>höll</i> which is 'palace, hall'. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Jumahess&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Jumahess (page does not exist)">Jumahess</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jumahess&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Jumahess (page does not exist)">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jumahess" title="Special:Contributions/Jumahess">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Jumahess-2010-09-04T11:05:00.000Z-Walhalla_or_Valhalla" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:05, 4 September 2010 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jumahess-2010-09-04T11:05:00.000Z-Walhalla_or_Valhalla"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jumahess-2010-09-04T11:05:00.000Z-Walhalla_or_Valhalla"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Title_and_introduction_of_the_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article-2010-12-29T17:57:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article-2010-12-29T17:57:00.000Z"></span>Title and introduction of the article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article-2010-12-29T17:57:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Title and introduction of the article"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Florian_Blaschke-2010-12-29T17:57:00.000Z-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article"></span>There is a conundrum here: The article is about one word attested in many different forms in many different languages, but all of them ultimately, historically go back to the same proto-form *<i>Walha-</i> (stem) or *<i>Walhaz</i> (nominative singular). However, what should the article be named? I tried to fix the intro and thought of moving the article, but I'm not sure how to proceed in such a case. Should we give the article the title <i>Walhaz</i> even though that is a reconstructed form? Given that the articles for the runes and some other subjects, such as Germanic deities, also use reconstructed forms, for example <a href="/wiki/Wodanaz" class="mw-redirect" title="Wodanaz">Wodanaz</a>, this possibility should be canvassed, but use in this area is terribly inconsistent in Wikipedia. In any event, <i>Walh</i> (singular) and <i>Walha</i> (plural) is <b>not</b> proto-Germanic or even simply "Germanic" or "ancient Germanic" (which doesn't exist as a unified language; you simply cannot quote unitary "Germanic" or "ancient Germanic" forms, just like you can quote Latin or reconstructed proto-Romance but not "common Romance" forms), it's simply Old High German, and that needs to be clarified. But I don't know how to structure the intro better. Anyone have any idea how to fix this? --<a href="/wiki/User:Florian_Blaschke" title="User:Florian Blaschke">Florian Blaschke</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Florian_Blaschke" title="User talk:Florian Blaschke">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Florian_Blaschke-2010-12-29T17:57:00.000Z-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:57, 29 December 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Florian_Blaschke-2010-12-29T17:57:00.000Z-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Florian_Blaschke-2010-12-29T17:57:00.000Z-Title_and_introduction_of_the_article"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Reorganize" data-mw-thread-id="h-Reorganize-2011-04-12T21:05:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Reorganize-2011-04-12T21:05:00.000Z"></span>Reorganize<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Reorganize-2011-04-12T21:05:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Reorganize"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:05:00.000Z-Reorganize"></span>The section of this article which goes through all the languages needs to be re-organized. Central Europe and Western Europe are not suitable categories. It would be much better to group these linguistically. --<a href="/wiki/User:Doric_Loon" title="User:Doric Loon">Doric Loon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doric_Loon" title="User talk:Doric Loon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:05:00.000Z-Reorganize" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:05:00.000Z-Reorganize"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doric_Loon-2011-04-12T21:05:00.000Z-Reorganize"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?" data-mw-thread-id="h-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?-2012-01-06T19:30:00.000Z"><span id="What_about_Wallis.2FValais_canton.2Fregion.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?-2012-01-06T19:30:00.000Z"></span>What about <a href="/wiki/Wallis" class="mw-disambig" title="Wallis">Wallis</a>/<a href="/wiki/Valais" title="Valais">Valais</a> canton/region?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?-2012-01-06T19:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: What about Wallis/Valais canton/region?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Codrinb-2012-01-06T19:30:00.000Z-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?"></span>What about the Swiss <a href="/wiki/Wallis" class="mw-disambig" title="Wallis">Wallis</a>/<a href="/wiki/Valais" title="Valais">Valais</a> canton/region? Does it have the same root? Or is it just coming from the <i>Vallis Poenina</i>, the name used by Romans for the upper Rhône valley?--<a href="/wiki/User:Codrinb" title="User:Codrinb">Codrin.B</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrinb" title="User talk:Codrinb">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Codrinb-2012-01-06T19:30:00.000Z-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:30, 6 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Codrinb-2012-01-06T19:30:00.000Z-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Codrinb-2012-01-06T19:30:00.000Z-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-46.115.33.122-2013-05-22T20:33:00.000Z-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?"></span>The root of "Valais" is the Latin "vallis", with "Wallis" as its xenonym in german language. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.115.33.122" title="Special:Contributions/46.115.33.122">46.115.33.122</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:46.115.33.122&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:46.115.33.122 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-46.115.33.122-2013-05-22T20:33:00.000Z-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 22 May 2013 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-46.115.33.122-2013-05-22T20:33:00.000Z-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-46.115.33.122-2013-05-22T20:33:00.000Z-What_about_Wallis/Valais_canton/region?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Organizing_the_information" data-mw-thread-id="h-Organizing_the_information-2012-01-06T20:27:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Organizing_the_information-2012-01-06T20:27:00.000Z"></span>Organizing the information<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Organizing_the_information-2012-01-06T20:27:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Organizing the information"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Codrinb-2012-01-06T20:27:00.000Z-Organizing_the_information"></span>I think it would be very useful to have table like this, possible with more relevant columns: Words derived from <a href="/wiki/Walhaz" class="mw-redirect" title="Walhaz">Walhaz</a>: </p> <table class="wikitable sortable"> <tbody><tr> <th>Language </th> <th>Form </th> <th>Meaning </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/English_language" title="English language">English</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Wales" title="Wales">Wales</a> </td> <td>is a country that is part of the <a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/English_language" title="English language">English</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Walsden" title="Walsden">Walsden</a> </td> <td>a large village in <a href="/wiki/West_Yorkshire" title="West Yorkshire">West Yorkshire</a>, England </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/German_language" title="German language">German</a> </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Welschbillig" title="Welschbillig">Welschbillig</a> </td> <td>a place in the Moselle valley, where <i>Moselle romanic</i> was spoken </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/German_language" title="German language">German</a> </td> <td>Welschkohl </td> <td>a German exonym meaning... </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Greek_language" title="Greek language">Greek</a> </td> <td>Βλάχοι (Vlákhi/Vláhi) </td> <td>Shepherd (occasionally <i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>)/Romanian/Vlach </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Bulgarian_language" title="Bulgarian language">Bulgarian</a> </td> <td>влах </td> <td>Romanian/Vlach </td></tr> <tr> <td>Bulgarian </td> <td>влах </td> <td>man from <a href="/wiki/Wallachia" title="Wallachia">Wallachia</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Czech_language" title="Czech language">Czech</a> </td> <td>Valach </td> <td>man from <a href="/wiki/Wallachia" title="Wallachia">Wallachia</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Czech </td> <td>Valach </td> <td>man from Valašsko (in <a href="/wiki/Moravia" title="Moravia">Moravia</a>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Czech </td> <td>valach </td> <td>shepherd </td></tr> <tr> <td>Czech </td> <td>valach </td> <td>gelding (horse) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Czech </td> <td>valach </td> <td>lazy man </td></tr> <tr> <td>Czech </td> <td>Vlach </td> <td>Italian </td></tr> <tr> <td>Hungarian </td> <td>vlach </td> <td>Vlach </td></tr> <tr> <td>Hungarian </td> <td>oláh </td> <td>Romanian/Vlach </td></tr> <tr> <td>Hungarian </td> <td>olasz </td> <td>Italian </td></tr> <tr> <td>Macedonian </td> <td>влав </td> <td>cattle breeder, shepherd </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Polish_language" title="Polish language">Polish</a> </td> <td>Włoch </td> <td>Italian </td></tr> <tr> <td>Polish </td> <td>Włochy </td> <td>Italy </td></tr> <tr> <td>Polish </td> <td>Wołoch </td> <td>Romanian / Vlach </td></tr> <tr> <td>Polish </td> <td>wałach </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Gelding" title="Gelding">gelding</a> (horse)<sup class="noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact" style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" title="Wikipedia:Citation needed"><span title="This claim needs references to reliable sources. (January 2012)">citation needed</span></a></i>]</sup> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Old_Russian_language" class="mw-redirect" title="Old Russian language">Old Russian</a> </td> <td>волохъ </td> <td>man speaking a <a href="/wiki/Romance_language" class="mw-redirect" title="Romance language">Romance language</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Russian_language" title="Russian language">Russian</a> </td> <td>валах </td> <td>Vlach </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Serbian_language" title="Serbian language">Serbian</a> </td> <td>Влах </td> <td>citizen of the <a href="/wiki/Republic_of_Ragusa" title="Republic of Ragusa">Republic of Ragusa</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Serbian_language" title="Serbian language">Serbian</a>, <a href="/wiki/Croatian_language" title="Croatian language">Croatian</a>, <a href="/wiki/Bosnian_language" title="Bosnian language">Bosnian</a> </td> <td>Влах, Vlah </td> <td>Vlach </td></tr> <tr> <td>Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian </td> <td>Влах, Vlah </td> <td>man from <a href="/wiki/Wallachia" title="Wallachia">Wallachia</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Serbian (<a href="/wiki/U%C5%BEice" title="Užice">Užice</a> dialect) </td> <td>Вла(х), Старовла(х) </td> <td>medieval nomadic people from <a href="/wiki/Stari_Vlah" class="mw-redirect" title="Stari Vlah">Stari Vlah</a> and <a href="/w/index.php?title=Mala_Vla%C5%A1ka&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Mala Vlaška (page does not exist)">Mala Vlaška</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Croatian </td> <td>Vlah </td> <td>Istro-Romanian </td></tr> <tr> <td>Croatian (<a href="/wiki/Dubrovnik" title="Dubrovnik">Dubrovnik</a> dialect) </td> <td>Vlah </td> <td>man from <a href="/wiki/Herzegovina" title="Herzegovina">Herzegovina</a> (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Croatian (western dialects) </td> <td>Vlah </td> <td>Italian (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Serbian and Croatian </td> <td>влах, vlah </td> <td>medieval nomadic cattle breeder </td></tr> <tr> <td>Croatian (dialects of <a href="/wiki/Istria" title="Istria">Istria</a>) </td> <td>vlah </td> <td>new settler (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Croatian (<a href="/wiki/Dalmatia" title="Dalmatia">Dalmatian</a> dialects) </td> <td>vlah (vlaj) </td> <td>plebeian (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Croatian (<a href="/wiki/Dalmatia" title="Dalmatia">Dalmatian</a> insular dialects) </td> <td>vlah </td> <td>man from the mainland (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Croatian (western and northern dialects) </td> <td>vlah (vlaj) </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Eastern_Orthodoxy" title="Eastern Orthodoxy">Orthodox Christian</a>, usually <a href="/wiki/Serb" class="mw-redirect" title="Serb">Serb</a> (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Croatian (<a href="/wiki/Virovitica-Podravina_county" class="mw-redirect" title="Virovitica-Podravina county">Podravina</a> dialects) </td> <td>vlah </td> <td>Catholic who is a <a href="/wiki/Shtokavian#Neo-Shtokavian" title="Shtokavian">neoshtokavian</a> speaker (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>)<sup class="noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact" style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" title="Wikipedia:Citation needed"><span title="This claim needs references to reliable sources. (January 2012)">citation needed</span></a></i>]</sup> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Bosnian </td> <td>vlah, влах </td> <td>non-<a href="/wiki/Muslim" class="mw-redirect" title="Muslim">Muslim</a> living in <a href="/wiki/Bosnia_and_Herzegovina" title="Bosnia and Herzegovina">Bosnia</a>, usually <a href="/wiki/Serb" class="mw-redirect" title="Serb">Serb</a> (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Bosnian </td> <td>vlah </td> <td>Catholic (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Slovak_language" title="Slovak language">Slovak</a> </td> <td>Valach </td> <td>man from <a href="/wiki/Wallachia" title="Wallachia">Wallachia</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Slovak </td> <td>Valach </td> <td>man from Valašsko (in <a href="/wiki/Moravia" title="Moravia">Moravia</a>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Slovak </td> <td>valach </td> <td>shepherd </td></tr> <tr> <td>Slovak </td> <td>valach </td> <td>gelding (horse) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Slovak </td> <td>Vlach </td> <td>Italian </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Slovenian_language" class="mw-redirect" title="Slovenian language">Slovene</a> </td> <td>Lah </td> <td>Italian (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>) </td></tr> <tr> <td>Western <a href="/wiki/Slovenian_language" class="mw-redirect" title="Slovenian language">Slovenian</a> dialects </td> <td>Lah </td> <td><a href="/wiki/Friuli" title="Friuli">Friulian</a> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Slovene </td> <td>Vlah </td> <td>Serbian immigrant (<i><a href="/wiki/Pejorative" title="Pejorative">pejorative</a></i>)<sup class="noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact" style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" title="Wikipedia:Citation needed"><span title="This claim needs references to reliable sources. (January 2012)">citation needed</span></a></i>]</sup> </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/Ukrainian_language" title="Ukrainian language">Ukrainian</a> </td> <td>волох </td> <td>Romanian / Vlach </td></tr></tbody></table> <p>--<a href="/wiki/User:Codrinb" title="User:Codrinb">Codrin.B</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codrinb" title="User talk:Codrinb">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Codrinb-2012-01-06T20:27:00.000Z-Organizing_the_information" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:27, 6 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Codrinb-2012-01-06T20:27:00.000Z-Organizing_the_information"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Codrinb-2012-01-06T20:27:00.000Z-Organizing_the_information"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Contradiction" data-mw-thread-id="h-Contradiction-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Contradiction-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z"></span>Contradiction<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Contradiction-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Contradiction"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Intelligent_Mr_Toad-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z-Contradiction"></span>At one point this article says: “In English usage the words Gaul and Gaulish are used synonymously with Latin Gallia, Gallus and Gallicus. However the similarity of the names is probably accidental: the English words are borrowed from French Gaule and Gaulois, which appear to have been borrowed themselves from walha-. Germanic w is regularly rendered with French gu / g (cf. guerre = war, garder = ward), and the diphthong au is the regular outcome of al before a following consonant (cf. cheval ~ chevaux). Gaule or Gaulle can hardly be derived from Latin Gallia, since g would become j before a (cf. gamba > jambe), the regular outcome of Latin Gallia would have been *Jaille in French.[4][5] This also applies to the French name for Wales, which is le pays de Galles.” At another point it says: “In most Oïl languages[9] and Irish, walhaz was borrowed and altered by changing the initial w to g (cf. English "war" French guerre, English "William" vs. French Guillaume or even English "ward" vs. "guard", borrowed into English from French) resulting in Gaul- : Gaule "Gaul", Gaulois "Gaulish"”. These paragraphs appear to be contradictary. Is Gaul related to Gallia, or not? <a href="/wiki/User:Intelligent_Mr_Toad" title="User:Intelligent Mr Toad">Intelligent Mr Toad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Intelligent_Mr_Toad" title="User talk:Intelligent Mr Toad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Intelligent_Mr_Toad-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z-Contradiction" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:17, 14 August 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Intelligent_Mr_Toad-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z-Contradiction"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Intelligent_Mr_Toad-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z-Contradiction"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ewx-2012-08-15T08:09:00.000Z-Intelligent_Mr_Toad-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z"></span>The online OED has “ Gaul (the name of the country), < French Gaule, an adoption (phonologically obscure) of Latin Gallia, < Gall-us a Gaul.”. But maybe the cited texts have more detail… <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ewx&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ewx (page does not exist)">Ewx</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ewx" title="User talk:Ewx">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Ewx-2012-08-15T08:09:00.000Z-Intelligent_Mr_Toad-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:09, 15 August 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ewx-2012-08-15T08:09:00.000Z-Intelligent_Mr_Toad-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ewx-2012-08-15T08:09:00.000Z-Intelligent_Mr_Toad-2012-08-14T08:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nortmannus-2012-08-17T10:17:00.000Z-Ewx-2012-08-15T08:09:00.000Z"></span>French <i>Gaule</i> means <i>Gallia</i> in Latin and the English word Gaul is borrowed from French <i>Gaule</i> and means both the country and its inhabitants. The similarity between French <i>Gaule</i> and Latin <i>Gallia</i> is a coincidence. Regularly the Latin group /ga/ changes into /ja/ in French : <i>gamba</i> > <i>jambe</i> "leg", <i>gallus</i> > Old French <i>jal, jau</i> "rooster", <i>galbinus</i> > <i>jaune</i> "yellow", <i>gabella</i> > <i>javelle</i> "handful of wheat", etc. French <i>Gaulois</i> means "Gaulish" or "Gaul inhabitants" and is clearly attested as <i>waulois</i> in the northern French dialects and otherwise <i>vaulois</i> see for instance <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/gaulois">[1]</a>. There is an homonym from another Germanic word <i>gaule</i> "long stick" see <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymologie/gaule">[2]</a> similar phonetic evolution. We cannot think of a literary loanword because the form would be <i>Gall-</i> and not <i>Gaul-</i> like in this scholar loanword <i>gallican</i> "French" <a href="/wiki/User:Nortmannus" title="User:Nortmannus">Nortmannus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nortmannus" title="User talk:Nortmannus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Nortmannus-2012-08-17T10:17:00.000Z-Ewx-2012-08-15T08:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:17, 17 August 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nortmannus-2012-08-17T10:17:00.000Z-Ewx-2012-08-15T08:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nortmannus-2012-08-17T10:17:00.000Z-Ewx-2012-08-15T08:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland" data-mw-thread-id="h-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland-2013-05-22T21:12:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland-2013-05-22T21:12:00.000Z"></span>Factual error on situation in Switzerland<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland-2013-05-22T21:12:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Factual error on situation in Switzerland"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-46.115.33.122-2013-05-22T21:12:00.000Z-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland"></span>"Welsch" is not used pejorative and is only reserved for francophone regions. The French term "Romandie" and the german term "Welschschweiz" are identical and define areas instead of political territories, since some cantons are bilingual. Corresponding to that, French and german speakers use different names for municipalities, for example "Sion" vs. "Sitten" or "Neuchâtel" vs. "Neuenburg". <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.115.33.122" title="Special:Contributions/46.115.33.122">46.115.33.122</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:46.115.33.122&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:46.115.33.122 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-46.115.33.122-2013-05-22T21:12:00.000Z-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 22 May 2013 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-46.115.33.122-2013-05-22T21:12:00.000Z-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-46.115.33.122-2013-05-22T21:12:00.000Z-Factual_error_on_situation_in_Switzerland"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section" data-mw-thread-id="h-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z"></span>Removed incorrect information from Yiddish section<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Removed incorrect information from Yiddish section"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Saparagus-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section"></span>The text that read: </p> <pre>Similarly the corresponding Hebrew root "la'az" or "lo'ez", literally meaning "foreign", is used of the <a href="/wiki/Judeo-Italian_languages" class="mw-redirect" title="Judeo-Italian languages">Judeo-Italian languages</a> and of vocabulary of Romance origin in Yiddish. In the <a href="/wiki/Talmud" title="Talmud">Talmudic</a> commentaries of <a href="/wiki/Rashi" title="Rashi">Rashi</a> and the <a href="/wiki/Tosafot" title="Tosafot">Tosafists</a>, the translations of individual words into <a href="/wiki/Old_French" title="Old French">Old French</a> are known as <i>lo'azim</i>. </pre> <p>is both factually inaccurate and irrelevant here. The Hebrew "la'az" -- לעע״ז -- is not a <i>root</i>. It is rather a <a href="/wiki/Hebrew_abbreviations" title="Hebrew abbreviations">Hebrew Abbreviation</a>, namely, an acronym for "לשון עבדי עבודה זרה". Its literal meaning is "language of the performers of strange worship" (i.e., the language of idolaters/infidels). It is indeed commonly used to refer to translations of obscure Hebrew words into Old French by Rashi in his commentaries -- though not only in the Talmud but elsewhere as well. As Rashi lived in France, it was natural for him to use French as a reference for rendering complex terms. Being not a proper native root, it is irrelevant to the discussion of the subject of this page. <a href="/wiki/User:Saparagus" title="User:Saparagus">Saparagus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Saparagus" title="User talk:Saparagus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Saparagus-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 16 November 2013 (UTC)</a> Saparagus Arbiter<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Saparagus-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Saparagus-2013-11-16T18:11:00.000Z-Removed_incorrect_information_from_Yiddish_section"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="valskr" data-mw-thread-id="h-valskr-2015-04-19T08:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-valskr-2015-04-19T08:18:00.000Z"></span>valskr<span data-mw-comment-end="h-valskr-2015-04-19T08:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: valskr"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ewx-2015-04-19T08:18:00.000Z-valskr"></span>Re <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walhaz&curid=1274120&diff=657054077&oldid=654884741">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walhaz&curid=1274120&diff=657054077&oldid=654884741</a> Based on what I can find e.g. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://abdn.ac.uk/skaldic/m.php?p=word&i=90526">http://abdn.ac.uk/skaldic/m.php?p=word&i=90526</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://web.ff.cuni.cz/cgi-bin/uaa_slovnik/gmc_search_v3?cmd=formquery2&query=Valskr&startrow=1">http://web.ff.cuni.cz/cgi-bin/uaa_slovnik/gmc_search_v3?cmd=formquery2&query=Valskr&startrow=1</a> 'French' seems a more supportable interpretation of 'valskr' than 'Gaul'. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ewx&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ewx (page does not exist)">Ewx</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ewx" title="User talk:Ewx">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Ewx-2015-04-19T08:18:00.000Z-valskr" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:18, 19 April 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ewx-2015-04-19T08:18:00.000Z-valskr"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ewx-2015-04-19T08:18:00.000Z-valskr"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-25T17:06:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-25T17:06:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-25T17:06:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-25T17:06:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, </p><p>I have just modified one external link on <a href="/wiki/Walhaz" class="mw-redirect" title="Walhaz">Walhaz</a>. 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(September 2011)"</dd> <dd>"This article possibly contains original research. (August 2015)"</dd></dl> <p>It seems to me that the content extends beyond the scope of the article title - and is convuluted. It seems as if the article should be rewritten. My suggestion is to remove all uncited content in sections and build the article from there. </p><p>To figure that out, I think it's important to determine if the scope of the article should include words derived from Walhaz. </p><p>Are there any thoughts about this?–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117045900-Maintenance_tags" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:59, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117045900-Maintenance_tags"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117045900-Maintenance_tags"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117050800-CaroleHenson-20221117045900"></span>I just noticed that posts on this page have gone unanswered since 2012 - and was scattered before then. Since most of the article is uncited and an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a> question. I am going to delete all the sections, except the Historic persons (notable people may be better and more consistent throughout WP) and the see also section, for instance <a href="/wiki/Vlachs" title="Vlachs">Vlachs</a> is an important see also. I will look for sources for the historic persons and see what can be added to the remaining article content.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117050800-CaroleHenson-20221117045900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:08, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117050800-CaroleHenson-20221117045900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117050800-CaroleHenson-20221117045900"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117063200-CaroleHenson-20221117050800"></span>I am done cleaning up and then adding content to the main part of the article. I am a bit lost how to find a source that the notable people were Walhaz people. Can that be figured out based upon where they lived? Other?–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117063200-CaroleHenson-20221117050800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:32, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117063200-CaroleHenson-20221117050800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117063200-CaroleHenson-20221117050800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sirfurboy-20221117081100-CaroleHenson-20221117063200"></span>If you are going to ask a question in talk, you might give editors more than a couple of hours to reply! I do not, in principle, object to a major rewrite of this based on sourced information, but I do have some issues with what you have done: <ol><li>Sourcing: A cursory glance at the two versions of this page shows you have removed 7 sources, leaving only 4 behind. It may be that there are reasons for deleting sourced information, but you say you were just removing unsourced information. This is clearly not the case.</li> <li>Toponyms and exonyms: the whole section has vanished. Inasmuch as there is a subject here, the most interesting thing about it is surely the spread of the term in toponyms.</li> <li>Lead: You have largely delete the lead. Better to leave the lead alone, improved the main and then see how a new summary might be written. Leads do not have the same sourcing requirements as the main, and they are needed to provide an executive summary of the subject.</li></ol></dd> <dd>To your question on the notable people, I would start by looking here: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1012">[3]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy🏄</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sirfurboy" title="User talk:Sirfurboy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sirfurboy-20221117081100-CaroleHenson-20221117063200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:11, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sirfurboy-20221117081100-CaroleHenson-20221117063200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sirfurboy-20221117081100-CaroleHenson-20221117063200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117155200-Sirfurboy-20221117081100"></span>First of all, I am so grateful that you posted a comment here:</dd> <dd>1. Please see the post that starts out "I just noticed..." I looked at the cited sentences in large blocks of uncited content and brought back what I could.</dd> <dd>2. Okay. Good. Do you have citations for that section? If so, we can easily add back <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walhaz&oldid=1116740703#Toponyms_and_exonyms">this section</a>.</dd> <dd>3. I am confused about having "largely deleted the lead". See the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walhaz&type=revision&diff=1122370180&oldid=1116740703">diff</a> from the way the article looked before my edits and now]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I knew I was taking a bold move, but the tags had been on the article for so long and it has been ten years since anyone responded to comments on the talk page. Again, because of that, I am so glad that you came along.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117155200-Sirfurboy-20221117081100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:52, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117155200-Sirfurboy-20221117081100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117155200-Sirfurboy-20221117081100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163800-CaroleHenson-20221117155200"></span>On sources, I don't have much to hand, which is why I have not touched this page. Here is an example of some: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.etymonline.com/word/Welsh?ref=etymonline_crossreference">[4]</a>, and it again may be a good starting point for all of them. Nevertheless Harper's dictionary is good, but may not be sufficient in itself. So another reason I have not touched this article, despite watching it, is that I believe there may be some dispute about these etymologies. Although I doubt he will thank me for it, I will ping in <a href="/wiki/User:Austronesier" title="User:Austronesier">Austronesier</a>, who may have more information than I do on this. <dl><dd>Great, thanks Sirfurboy.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117163800-CaroleHenson-20221117155200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163800-CaroleHenson-20221117155200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163800-CaroleHenson-20221117155200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Austronesier-20221117195000-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"></span>I'm not terribly good in IE linguistics, my expertise lies farther east :) But I will look for sources which cover this word as primary topic (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www-degruyter-com.wikipedialibrary.idm.oclc.org/database/GAO/entry/RGA_6381/html">here</a> is one I've found in a quick search). –<a href="/wiki/User:Austronesier" title="User:Austronesier">Austronesier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Austronesier" title="User talk:Austronesier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Austronesier-20221117195000-CaroleHenson-20221117163800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Austronesier-20221117195000-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Austronesier-20221117195000-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Austronesier-20221117195500-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"></span>Another one: a chapter (in German) by <a href="/wiki/Walter_Pohl" title="Walter Pohl">Walter Pohl</a>, luckily available online in a book preview<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.ciando.com/img/books/extract/3700181140_lp.pdf">[5]</a>. –<a href="/wiki/User:Austronesier" title="User:Austronesier">Austronesier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Austronesier" title="User talk:Austronesier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Austronesier-20221117195500-CaroleHenson-20221117163800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:55, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Austronesier-20221117195500-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Austronesier-20221117195500-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117210000-Austronesier-20221117195500"></span>There's a paragraph and perhaps a bit more on page 10 of the document. I Google-translated the part about walhaz and the content states the meaning and use of the word walhaz as the German language developed. I am not sure, though, if I can properly capture the meaning of the translated text and how it would change what is already in the article: <dl><dd>"Germanic *walhaz, pl. *walhoz, adj. *walhisk went through the first sound shift from [k] to [h] and should therefore already have been in the time of the Formation of the Germanic have been present.7 Also makes the acquisition as ethnic Classification term only sense as long as Volcae in the southwest of an emerging Germanic language area played a formative role. Only secondarily did the name go to the Romans and theirs subjugated peoples. Similarly conceptual were those of Tacitus and other authors of the early imperial times mentioned Venethi in the east, from which about ahd winida, adj. windisc the german External designation Wenden for the Slavs came into"...</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Is there someone that can help with this?–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117210000-Austronesier-20221117195500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117210000-Austronesier-20221117195500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117210000-Austronesier-20221117195500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Austronesier-20221117211400-CaroleHenson-20221117210000"></span>Actually, Pohl's article is perfect not only for the etymology part, but also can serve as pivotal source for the entire article, thus avoiding the problem of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COATRACK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COATRACK">WP:COATRACK</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a>, which was a major issue of the earlier version apart from lack of sources. –<a href="/wiki/User:Austronesier" title="User:Austronesier">Austronesier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Austronesier" title="User talk:Austronesier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Austronesier-20221117211400-CaroleHenson-20221117210000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:14, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Austronesier-20221117211400-CaroleHenson-20221117210000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Austronesier-20221117211400-CaroleHenson-20221117210000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sirfurboy-20221117163200-CaroleHenson-20221117155200"></span>On the question of the deleted lead - the old lead was one paragraph that described the page. What we have now is essentially a short main text with no summary, albeit formatted as a lead. <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy🏄</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sirfurboy" title="User talk:Sirfurboy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sirfurboy-20221117163200-CaroleHenson-20221117155200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:32, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sirfurboy-20221117163200-CaroleHenson-20221117155200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sirfurboy-20221117163200-CaroleHenson-20221117155200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163800-Sirfurboy-20221117163200"></span>I am still confused. Did you look at the diff? I did not remove a summary. I did insert text, though. What do you think should be done?–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117163800-Sirfurboy-20221117163200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163800-Sirfurboy-20221117163200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163800-Sirfurboy-20221117163200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sirfurboy-20221117164300-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"></span>The insertion of text and sources into the lead is the problem - it turns a summary into main text. But not to worry about that just now. If the page is being rewritten, we can expand out the main text and get that right and then hopefully a new lead will write itself. <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy🏄</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sirfurboy" title="User talk:Sirfurboy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sirfurboy-20221117164300-CaroleHenson-20221117163800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sirfurboy-20221117164300-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sirfurboy-20221117164300-CaroleHenson-20221117163800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117164500-Sirfurboy-20221117164300"></span>Makes sense.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117164500-Sirfurboy-20221117164300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:45, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117164500-Sirfurboy-20221117164300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117164500-Sirfurboy-20221117164300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117213200-CaroleHenson-20221117164500"></span>In the meantime, I brought back the section headings <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walhaz&type=revision&diff=1122490303&oldid=1122457069">here</a> - which hopefully helps in the meantime.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117213200-CaroleHenson-20221117164500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117213200-CaroleHenson-20221117164500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117213200-CaroleHenson-20221117164500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Notable_people" data-mw-thread-id="h-Notable_people-20221117160100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Notable_people-20221117160100"></span>Notable people<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Notable_people-20221117160100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Notable people"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117160100-Notable_people"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy</a>:</span> Regarding "To your question on the notable people, I would start by looking here: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1012">[6]</a>" </p><p>- I don't know how, but I am unable to find anything about notable people in this link - Also, it's a blog and does not appear to be a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">reliable source</a> </p><p>I could be missing something. I would really like to cite this section - otherwise, it should probably be removed. –<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117160100-Notable_people" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117160100-Notable_people"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117160100-Notable_people"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sirfurboy-20221117161900-CaroleHenson-20221117160100"></span>OK apologies, that link will not help with the notable people. I misunderstood you to be asking for sources about the people as a group, the "Walhaz people", which would be the Volcae. That was not what you were asking so that won't help. I have no idea how to locate information about individual people. As to that site being self published, yes, I was not suggesting it be the source. Rather it was a tertiary source inasmuch as they had collated a bibliography of 8 references and curated the information. It is a starting point. But not the starting point you wanted! <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy🏄</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sirfurboy" title="User talk:Sirfurboy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sirfurboy-20221117161900-CaroleHenson-20221117160100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:19, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sirfurboy-20221117161900-CaroleHenson-20221117160100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sirfurboy-20221117161900-CaroleHenson-20221117160100"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163000-Sirfurboy-20221117161900"></span>Great point, I have been prone to looking at content from unreliable sources and then research for sources. It's a helpful research approach! Thanks!–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117163000-Sirfurboy-20221117161900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:30, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163000-Sirfurboy-20221117161900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117163000-Sirfurboy-20221117161900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sources" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sources-20221117164400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sources-20221117164400"></span>Sources<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sources-20221117164400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Sources"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-Sources"></span>I will take a look at this list and see what I can find: </p> <ul><li>Cowgill, Warren. 1986. “Einleitung.” Cowgill, Warren, and Manfred Mayrhofer, <i>Indogermanische Grammatik, Band I</i> (Heidelberg: Winter) 9-71. <ul><li>I couldn't find a viewable version of this book, but it is referenced in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/anglosaxondictionary_202001/From%20Proto-Indo-European%20to%20Proto-Germanic/page/3/mode/2up?q=Walhaz">this source</a></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span class="nowrap"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span><b> Done</b></span> added a bit of content <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Walhaz&type=revision&diff=1122457069&oldid=1122370180">here</a>.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-Sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-Sources"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-Sources"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-CaroleHenson-20221117211500"></span>Eska, Joseph. 1989. <i>Towards an interpretation of the Hispano-Celtic inscription of Botorrita.</i> Innsbruck: IBS. <ul><li>Couldn't find anything usable</li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li>Feist, Sigmund. 1939. <i>Vergleichendes Wörterbuch der gotischen Sprache.</i> Leiden: Brill. <ul><li>Found <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/conciseoxforddic0000unse_j2k8/page/382/mode/2up?q=Walhaz">this</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/conciseoxforddic0000unse_p7v4/page/382/mode/2up?q=Walhaz">this</a> that references Feist and Walhaz <ul><li>Both are dictionaries that include words derived from Walhaz. Perhaps this could be used and expanded for the table mentioned in the <a href="#Organizing_the_information">#Organizing the information</a> section.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-CaroleHenson-20221117211500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-CaroleHenson-20221117211500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-CaroleHenson-20221117211500"></span></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117211500"></span>Jasanoff, Jay. 1989. “Old Irish <i>bé</i> ‘woman’.” <i>Ériu</i> 40:135-41.</li></ul> <ul><li>—. 2002. “The nom. sg. of Germanic <i>n-</i>stems.” Wedel, Alfred, and Hans-Jörg Busch (edd.), <i>Verba et litteræ: explorations in Germanic languages and German literature</i> (Newark, DE: Linguatext) 31-46. <ul><li>Nothing new to add</li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li>Luick, Karl. 1921. <i>Historische Grammatik der englischen Sprache.</i> Leipzig: Tauchnitz. <ul><li>Nothing found</li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li>Melchert, H. Craig. 1994. <i>Anatolian historical phonology.</i> Amsterdam: Rodopi. <ul><li>Nothing new to add</li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li>Ringe, Don. 2008. <i>From Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Germanic. A linguistic history of English, volume 1.</i> Revised ed. Oxford: OUP. <ul><li>Found a [<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/don-ringe-2006-from-proto-indo-european-to-proto-germanic/page/3/mode/2up?q=Walhaz">2006 edition</a>]</li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Nothing new to add.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117211500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117211500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117211500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-1"></span>Schmitt, Rüdiger. 1981. <i>Grammatik des Klassisch-Armenischen.</i> Innsbruck: IBS. <ul><li>Nothing new to add</li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li>Vries, Jan de. 1960. <i>Kelten und Germanen.</i> Bern: Francke. <ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/dialectsofancien0000what/page/n99/mode/2up?q=Walhaz">Catuuolcus</a> <ul><li>I am not sure what to do with: "It is bare¬ ly possible that Texuandri (-ox-, -ax- 221 below) is rendered Eburones, as it has been conjectured that Catuuolcus himself is *hahu-walhaz."–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117211500-1"></span></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117164400-Sources"></span>–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117164400-Sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:44, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117164400-Sources"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117164400-Sources"></span> </p> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117172700-CaroleHenson-20221117164400"></span>Made update, only one where I found the book. But found some other good sources that referenced these people.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) 17:27, 17 November 2022 (UTC) More updates.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117172700-CaroleHenson-20221117164400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117172700-CaroleHenson-20221117164400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117172700-CaroleHenson-20221117164400"></span></li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117172700"></span>I have done all that I can from these sources.–<a href="/wiki/User:CaroleHenson" title="User:CaroleHenson">CaroleHenson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaroleHenson" title="User talk:CaroleHenson">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117172700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 17 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117172700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CaroleHenson-20221117212300-CaroleHenson-20221117172700"></span></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Requested_move_1_August_2023" data-mw-thread-id="h-Requested_move_1_August_2023-20230801132300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Requested_move_1_August_2023-20230801132300"></span>Requested move 1 August 2023<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Requested_move_1_August_2023-20230801132300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Requested move 1 August 2023"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BilledMammal-20230816132300-Requested_move_1_August_2023"></span>The following is a closed discussion of a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">requested move</a>. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Move_review" title="Wikipedia:Move review">move review</a> after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the move request was: <b>moved.</b> Rough consensus to move; while the !votes in support and opposition were roughly equal, consensus is not determined by counting votes but by strength of argument. In that light, those in support had the strongest arguments, arguing that this is what the words are called in sources. </p><p>Arguments in opposition, in comparison, had little basis in policy, such as arguing that titles starting with a * were technically problematic. </p><p>Editors who believe that the words are not notable should bring the article to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFD">WP:AFD</a>; notability has no bearing on what the title of the article should be. <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Closing_instructions#Closure_by_a_page_mover" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions">closed by non-admin page mover</a>)</small> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">BilledMammal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilledMammal" title="User talk:BilledMammal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-BilledMammal-20230816132300-Requested_move_1_August_2023" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:23, 16 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BilledMammal-20230816132300-Requested_move_1_August_2023"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BilledMammal-20230816132300-Requested_move_1_August_2023"></span> </p> <hr/> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Walhaz" class="mw-redirect" title="Walhaz"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230801132300-Requested_move_1_August_2023"></span>Walhaz</a> → <a href="/wiki/*Walhaz" title="*Walhaz">*Walhaz</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Deh%E2%82%82nu" class="mw-redirect" title="Deh₂nu">Deh₂nu</a> → <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=*Deh%E2%82%82nu&redirect=no">*Deh₂nu</a></span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Dy%C4%93us" class="mw-redirect" title="Dyēus">Dyēus</a> → <a href="/wiki/*Dy%C4%93us" title="*Dyēus">*Dyēus</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Fraujaz" class="mw-redirect" title="Fraujaz">Fraujaz</a> → <a href="/wiki/*Fraujaz" title="*Fraujaz">*Fraujaz</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/H%E2%82%81n%CC%A5g%CA%B7nis" class="mw-redirect" title="H₁n̥gʷnis">H₁n̥gʷnis</a> → <a href="/wiki/*H%E2%82%81n%CC%A5g%CA%B7nis" title="*H₁n̥gʷnis">*H₁n̥gʷnis</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/H%E2%82%82%C3%A9ws%C5%8Ds" class="mw-redirect" title="H₂éwsōs">H₂éwsōs</a> → <a href="/wiki/*H%E2%82%82%C3%A9ws%C5%8Ds" title="*H₂éwsōs">*H₂éwsōs</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Hepom_Nep%C5%8Dts" class="mw-redirect" title="Hepom Nepōts">Hepom Nepōts</a> → <a href="/wiki/*H%E2%82%82epom_Nep%C5%8Dts" title="*H₂epom Nepōts">*H₂epom Nepōts</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=Heryomen&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Heryomen (page does not exist)">Heryomen</a> → <a href="/w/index.php?title=*H%E2%82%82eryo-men&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="*H₂eryo-men (page does not exist)">*H₂eryo-men</a></li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=H%E2%82%82weh%E2%82%81y%C3%BA&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="H₂weh₁yú (page does not exist)">H₂weh₁yú</a> → <a href="/w/index.php?title=*H%E2%82%82weh%E2%82%81y%C3%BA&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="*H₂weh₁yú (page does not exist)">*H₂weh₁yú</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Manu_and_Yemo" class="mw-redirect" title="Manu and Yemo">Manu and Yemo</a> → <a href="/wiki/*Manu_and_*Yemo" title="*Manu and *Yemo">*Manu and *Yemo</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Pehuson" class="mw-redirect" title="Pehuson">Pehuson</a> → <a href="/wiki/*P%C3%A9h%E2%82%82us%C5%8Dn" title="*Péh₂usōn">*Péh₂usōn</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Perkwunos" class="mw-redirect" title="Perkwunos">Perkwunos</a> → <a href="/wiki/*Perk%CA%B7%C5%ABnos" title="*Perkʷūnos">*Perkʷūnos</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/PriHy%C3%A9h%E2%82%82" class="mw-redirect" title="PriHyéh₂">PriHyéh₂</a> → <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=*PriHy%C3%A9h%E2%82%82&redirect=no">*PriHyéh₂</a></span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Sehul_and_Mehnot" class="mw-redirect" title="Sehul and Mehnot">Sehul and Mehnot</a> → <a href="/wiki/*Seh%E2%82%82ul_and_*Meh%E2%82%81not" title="*Seh₂ul and *Meh₁not">*Seh₂ul and *Meh₁not</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Trito_(Proto-Indo-European_mythology)" class="mw-redirect" title="Trito (Proto-Indo-European mythology)">Trito (Proto-Indo-European mythology)</a> → <a href="/wiki/*Trito" title="*Trito">*Trito</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Welnos" class="mw-redirect" title="Welnos">Welnos</a> → <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=*Welnos&redirect=no">*Welnos</a></span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/H%E2%82%82n%CC%A5g%CA%B7%CA%B0is" class="mw-redirect" title="H₂n̥gʷʰis">H₂n̥gʷʰis</a> → <a href="/wiki/*H%E2%82%82n%CC%A5g%CA%B7%CA%B0is" title="*H₂n̥gʷʰis">*H₂n̥gʷʰis</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/%E1%B8%B0%C3%A9rberos" class="mw-redirect" title="Ḱérberos">Ḱérberos</a> → <a href="/wiki/*%E1%B8%B0%C3%A9rberos" title="*Ḱérberos">*Ḱérberos</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/D%CA%B0%C3%A9%C7%B5%CA%B0%C5%8Dm" class="mw-redirect" title="Dʰéǵʰōm">Dʰéǵʰōm</a> → <a href="/wiki/*D%CA%B0%C3%A9%C7%B5%CA%B0%C5%8Dm" title="*Dʰéǵʰōm">*Dʰéǵʰōm</a></li></ul> <p>– <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a>. It is customary in historical linguistics to include an asterisk at the beginning of a word that is not attested in writing, but rather <a href="/wiki/Linguistic_reconstruction" title="Linguistic reconstruction">reconstructed</a> etymologically. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Jcitawy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Jcitawy (page does not exist)">Jcitawy</a> made a <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1167973997" title="Special:PermanentLink/1167973997">technical request</a> to move <a href="/wiki/Walhaz" class="mw-redirect" title="Walhaz">Walhaz</a> → <a href="/wiki/*Walhaz" title="*Walhaz">*Walhaz</a>. In order to maintain <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONSISTENT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONSISTENT">consistent titling</a>, I have expanded this to cover each article in <a href="/wiki/Category:Reconstructed_words" title="Category:Reconstructed words">Category:Reconstructed words</a> (except <a href="/wiki/Jehovah" title="Jehovah">Jehovah</a> and <a href="/wiki/Yahweh" title="Yahweh">Yahweh</a>, due to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">common usage</a>). I also included changes to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Heryomen&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Heryomen (page does not exist)">Heryomen</a>, <a href="/wiki/Pehuson" class="mw-redirect" title="Pehuson">Pehuson</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Perkwunos" class="mw-redirect" title="Perkwunos">Perkwunos</a> to use more precise reconstructed spellings like the others (see <a href="/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_phonology" title="Proto-Indo-European phonology">Proto-Indo-European phonology</a>). These are all <a href="/wiki/Proto-Indo-European" class="mw-redirect" title="Proto-Indo-European">Proto-Indo-European</a> or <a href="/wiki/Proto-Germanic" class="mw-redirect" title="Proto-Germanic">Proto-Germanic</a>, unless I am mistaken. <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">SilverLocust</small></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> 13:23, 1 August 2023 (UTC) <small>— <i><b>Relisting.</b></i> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">BilledMammal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilledMammal" title="User talk:BilledMammal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230801132300-Requested_move_1_August_2023" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230801132300-Requested_move_1_August_2023"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230801132300-Requested_move_1_August_2023"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230801133400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Also pinging <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:DrVogel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:DrVogel (page does not exist)">DrVogel</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom" title="User:CX Zoom">CX Zoom</a></span> who commented at WP:RM/TR. <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">SilverLocust</small></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230801133400-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:34, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230801133400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230801133400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230802002200-SilverLocust-20230801133400"></span>Note: I have added <a href="/wiki/H%E2%82%82n%CC%A5g%CA%B7%CA%B0is" class="mw-redirect" title="H₂n̥gʷʰis">H₂n̥gʷʰis</a>, <a href="/wiki/%E1%B8%B0%C3%A9rberos" class="mw-redirect" title="Ḱérberos">Ḱérberos</a>, and <a href="/wiki/D%CA%B0%C3%A9%C7%B5%CA%B0%C5%8Dm" class="mw-redirect" title="Dʰéǵʰōm">Dʰéǵʰōm</a>. <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Immanuelle" title="User:Immanuelle">Immanuelle</a>:</span> You would probably be interested in this, since you created several of these articles. Have I missed any others? <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">SilverLocust</small></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230802002200-SilverLocust-20230801133400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:22, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230802002200-SilverLocust-20230801133400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230802002200-SilverLocust-20230801133400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Immanuelle-20230802022800-SilverLocust-20230802002200"></span>Seems like you got all of them.</dd> <dd><b>Weak oppose</b> due to possible technical issues starting with an asterisk or search engine indexing problems <a href="/wiki/User:Immanuelle" title="User:Immanuelle"><b>Immanuel</b>le</a> ❤️💚💙 <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Immanuelle" title="User talk:Immanuelle">(talk to the cutest Wikipedian)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Immanuelle-20230802022800-SilverLocust-20230802002200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:28, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Immanuelle-20230802022800-SilverLocust-20230802002200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Immanuelle-20230802022800-SilverLocust-20230802002200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DrVogel-20230801141100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Thank you for the ping <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust">User:SilverLocust</a>, and thank you for creating this RM, which is very useful for consistency.</li></ul> <dl><dd>At RMTR I said that "*Walhaz" seems better than "Walhaz", because of the meaning that the asterisk carries. But now, seeing examples such as "*Seh₂ul and *Meh₁not" instead of "Sehul and Mehnot", and *Perkʷūnos" instead of "Perkwunos", I'm having second thoughts.</dd> <dd>It would be good to have the opinion of some editors involved in linguistics. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:DrVogel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:DrVogel (page does not exist)">Dr. Vogel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DrVogel" title="User talk:DrVogel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-DrVogel-20230801141100-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DrVogel-20230801141100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DrVogel-20230801141100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></dd> <dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230801141700-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Note: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Linguistics" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics">WikiProject Linguistics</a> has been notified of this discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">SilverLocust</small></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230801141700-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:17, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230801141700-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230801141700-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230801141700-SilverLocust-20230801132300-1"></span>Note: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ancient_Germanic_studies" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ancient Germanic studies">WikiProject Ancient Germanic studies</a> has been notified of this discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">SilverLocust</small></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230801141700-SilverLocust-20230801132300-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:17, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230801141700-SilverLocust-20230801132300-1"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230801141700-SilverLocust-20230801132300-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rreagan007-20230801165100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Comment</b>. Starting an article title with an asterisk seems like a bad idea to me, particularly for searching and indexing purposes. And are there any technical limitations to doing this? Are there currently any Wikipedia article titles that begin with an asterisk? <a href="/wiki/User:Rreagan007" title="User:Rreagan007">Rreagan007</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rreagan007" title="User talk:Rreagan007">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Rreagan007-20230801165100-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:51, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rreagan007-20230801165100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rreagan007-20230801165100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230801165700-Rreagan007-20230801165100"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Rreagan007" title="User:Rreagan007">Rreagan007</a>:</span> There are some articles starting with *, though not that many. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=*&namespace=0&hideredirects=1">[7]</a> And there are more containing *, like <a href="/wiki/M*A*S*H_(film)" title="M*A*S*H (film)">M*A*S*H (film)</a>. You should still be able to find, e.g., <a href="/wiki/*Walhaz" title="*Walhaz">*Walhaz</a> by searching either Walhaz or *Walhaz. If it would cause technical problems, I would also be opposed (or willing to revert). <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">SilverLocust</small></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230801165700-Rreagan007-20230801165100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:57, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230801165700-Rreagan007-20230801165100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230801165700-Rreagan007-20230801165100"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JIP-20230801173900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Weak oppose</b>. I don't think having special linguistic symbols in article titles is helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:JIP" title="User:JIP"><span style="color: #CC0000;">J</span><span style="color: #00CC00;">I</span><span style="color: #0000CC;">P</span></a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JIP" title="User talk:JIP">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-JIP-20230801173900-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:39, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JIP-20230801173900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JIP-20230801173900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sławobóg-20230801223100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Oppose</b>. We are not a dictionary. Adding asterisk will make it even more chaotic, these names are not consistent atm because someone moved these - lets fix that instead. Non of these articles starting with * are reconstructions. <a href="/wiki/User:S%C5%82awob%C3%B3g" title="User:Sławobóg">Sławobóg</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:S%C5%82awob%C3%B3g" title="User talk:Sławobóg">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sławobóg-20230801223100-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:31, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sławobóg-20230801223100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sławobóg-20230801223100-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DrVogel-20230802013500-Sławobóg-20230801223100"></span>I'm not a linguist, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that *Walhaz <i>is</i> a reconstruction. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:DrVogel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:DrVogel (page does not exist)">Dr. Vogel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DrVogel" title="User talk:DrVogel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-DrVogel-20230802013500-Sławobóg-20230801223100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:35, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DrVogel-20230802013500-Sławobóg-20230801223100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DrVogel-20230802013500-Sławobóg-20230801223100"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230802022300-DrVogel-20230802013500"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:DrVogel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:DrVogel (page does not exist)">DrVogel</a>:</span> Sławobóg means there are no reconstructed words among these articles <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?hideredirects=1&namespace=0&prefix=*">[8]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small><i style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">S.L.</i></small></a><small> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230802022300-DrVogel-20230802013500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:23, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230802022300-DrVogel-20230802013500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230802022300-DrVogel-20230802013500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CX_Zoom-20230802083300-SilverLocust-20230802022300"></span>Tbf that is exactly why we've gathered here to discuss a title change. <span class="nowrap">—<b><a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom" title="User:CX Zoom">CX Zoom</a></b>[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CX_Zoom" title="User talk:CX Zoom">let's talk</a> • {<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CX_Zoom" title="Special:Contributions/CX Zoom">C</a>•<a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom/X" title="User:CX Zoom/X">X</a>})</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CX_Zoom-20230802083300-SilverLocust-20230802022300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CX_Zoom-20230802083300-SilverLocust-20230802022300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CX_Zoom-20230802083300-SilverLocust-20230802022300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230802024300-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Further comment: I am inclined to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Closing_instructions#Early_closure" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions">withdraw</a> this, since everyone seems at least a little opposed. If anyone objects, let me know.</s> <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">SilverLocust</small></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230802024300-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:43, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230802024300-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230802024300-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DrVogel-20230802033200-SilverLocust-20230802024300"></span>No need to withdraw, there's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NODEADLINE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NODEADLINE">WP:NODEADLINE</a>. I would say to leave it running for a bit to allow some linguists to chip in. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:DrVogel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:DrVogel (page does not exist)">Dr. Vogel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DrVogel" title="User talk:DrVogel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-DrVogel-20230802033200-SilverLocust-20230802024300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:32, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DrVogel-20230802033200-SilverLocust-20230802024300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DrVogel-20230802033200-SilverLocust-20230802024300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DrVogel-20230802034800-DrVogel-20230802033200"></span>Also, if we leave it to run until it's closed, hopefully there will be some documented consensus one way or the other (and that won't happen if we close it early). <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:DrVogel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:DrVogel (page does not exist)">Dr. Vogel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DrVogel" title="User talk:DrVogel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-DrVogel-20230802034800-DrVogel-20230802033200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:48, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DrVogel-20230802034800-DrVogel-20230802033200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DrVogel-20230802034800-DrVogel-20230802033200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><s><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sirfurboy-20230802074900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Oppose</b></s> - The proposal makes a good point about the common practice for reconstructed words, but this is an encyclopaedia and not a dictionary. Where the word is treated here it is treated encyclopaedically. The notation is not required because the article makes the information clear about reconstruction, and because the reader of the article is not reliant upont the notation to recognise such words. It also potentially makes it harder to locate the words in a search engine. In search a * is a wildcard character and usually carries the connotation that it will match anything. Searching on a name with a * may therefore match multiple prefixes and obscure the required hits. <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy🏄</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sirfurboy" title="User talk:Sirfurboy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sirfurboy-20230802074900-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:49, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sirfurboy-20230802074900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sirfurboy-20230802074900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CX_Zoom-20230802084200-Sirfurboy-20230802074900"></span>I'm not well versed with how <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SEARCH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SEARCH">WP:SEARCH</a> works, but <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WLD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WLD">WP:WLD</a> section of that page says "The two wildcard characters are <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">*</code> and <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">\?</code>, and both can come in the <i>middle or end</i> of a word" (emphasis added), so I'm assuming that an initial asterisk doesn't harm searches. I didn't face issues when searching <a href="/wiki/*Lisp" title="*Lisp">*Lisp</a> for example. Here's a list of articles with initial asterisk on Wikipedia <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?hideredirects=1&namespace=0&prefix=*">[9]</a>. <span class="nowrap">—<b><a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom" title="User:CX Zoom">CX Zoom</a></b>[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CX_Zoom" title="User talk:CX Zoom">let's talk</a> • {<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CX_Zoom" title="Special:Contributions/CX Zoom">C</a>•<a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom/X" title="User:CX Zoom/X">X</a>})</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CX_Zoom-20230802084200-Sirfurboy-20230802074900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:42, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CX_Zoom-20230802084200-Sirfurboy-20230802074900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CX_Zoom-20230802084200-Sirfurboy-20230802074900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sirfurboy-20230802210500-CX_Zoom-20230802084200"></span>It is not just Wikipedia search though. Different search engines that typically bring users to pages treat wildcards differently. However, I don't wish to overstate that case. The main search engine remains Google, and although Google allows wildcards before words, it ignores them if there is no space. Thus '* Walhaz' is a valid wildcard but '*Walhaz' is treated as 'Walhaz' and will <i>probably</i> still match to the page if it is *Walhaz. Also, an asterisk is allowed in a URL per RFC 1738, so I don't think the correct title template will be required. The page url will work with a * in it. I am not convinced it won't cause a problem with <i>some</i> search engines. In fact, I am reasonably certain it will. However the problem may be limited, and redirects will indeed help.</dd> <dd>Also, on checking a range of texts, I did not find that * was used uniformly on such words in sources, but it is definitely extremely common. What I did not find is any such words used as titles and containing the *. More general texts use them in the text, but explain the usage when first introduced. Yet the absence of evidence of a * being used when the subject is used encyclopaedically as a title is not evidence that it is not used, but rather it is evidence that individual reconstructed words are rarely treated as subjects in their own right. As they say, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I will thus strike my oppose. <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy🏄</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sirfurboy" title="User talk:Sirfurboy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sirfurboy-20230802210500-CX_Zoom-20230802084200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sirfurboy-20230802210500-CX_Zoom-20230802084200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sirfurboy-20230802210500-CX_Zoom-20230802084200"></span> <dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Austronesier-20230803173300-Sirfurboy-20230802210500"></span>Comment</b> – An * in titles is not entirely unseen, this example<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/26779837">[10]</a> has immediately come to my mind, and I could image similar journal article titles in Indo-European studies. FWIW, I have not found any from the above listed *-forms appearing in a title, which is a bit of a red flag for the notability of the subject (unless in the case of size splits). –<a href="/wiki/User:Austronesier" title="User:Austronesier">Austronesier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Austronesier" title="User talk:Austronesier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Austronesier-20230803173300-Sirfurboy-20230802210500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 3 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Austronesier-20230803173300-Sirfurboy-20230802210500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Austronesier-20230803173300-Sirfurboy-20230802210500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CX_Zoom-20230802081700-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Strong support</b>: As far as I understand, asterisks are an essential component of the reconstructed words (which is why the citations never miss it). There are zero technical restrictions with asterisks whatsoever, which is how there already exists several redirects at the asterisk title. English Wikipedia naming convention is not bound to the 26 characters on standard English keyboard, we allow the diacritics on aeiou, we allow the æ character, we allow the <a href="/wiki/L_with_stroke" class="mw-redirect" title="L with stroke">L with stroke</a> character in articles about Polish subjects, and Greek letters for articles on chemicals. There is no reason to avoid asterisk in title, that is far more easily accessible on keyboard than any of the above-mentioned characters. Further, search indexing should not be affected because we allow the usage of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Redirects">WP:Redirects</a> which will continue to exist from non-asterisk title. (I had previously participated in this discussion at the RMTR page, thus I was pinged above so that I could continue the formal discussion here.) <span class="nowrap">—<b><a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom" title="User:CX Zoom">CX Zoom</a></b>[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CX_Zoom" title="User talk:CX Zoom">let's talk</a> • {<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CX_Zoom" title="Special:Contributions/CX Zoom">C</a>•<a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom/X" title="User:CX Zoom/X">X</a>})</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CX_Zoom-20230802081700-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:17, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CX_Zoom-20230802081700-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CX_Zoom-20230802081700-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jcitawy-20230802191200-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Comment</b>: If the asterisk is omitted from the title for technical reasons, then <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Correct_title" title="Template:Correct title">correct title</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> should be used to indicate this, and the asterisk should be used consistently in the article text. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Jcitawy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Jcitawy (page does not exist)">Jcitawy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jcitawy" title="User talk:Jcitawy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Jcitawy-20230802191200-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:12, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jcitawy-20230802191200-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jcitawy-20230802191200-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Walt_Yoder-20230802232800-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Delete</b> at a quick glance, none of these should be articles. I'm not sure they should even be redirects. <a href="/wiki/User:Walt_Yoder" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Walt Yoder">Walt Yoder</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Walt_Yoder" title="User talk:Walt Yoder">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Walt_Yoder-20230802232800-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:28, 2 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Walt_Yoder-20230802232800-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Walt_Yoder-20230802232800-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sirfurboy-20230803073000-Walt_Yoder-20230802232800"></span>Delete is not an outcome available for a move discussion. The question is to move or not (support or oppose). If you think the articles should be deleted you would need to take these to AfD. <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy🏄</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sirfurboy" title="User talk:Sirfurboy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sirfurboy-20230803073000-Walt_Yoder-20230802232800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:30, 3 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sirfurboy-20230803073000-Walt_Yoder-20230802232800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sirfurboy-20230803073000-Walt_Yoder-20230802232800"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Srnec-20230803114000-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Support</b>. Better to let readers know that the asterisk is always supposed to be there. <a href="/wiki/User:Srnec" title="User:Srnec">Srnec</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Srnec" title="User talk:Srnec">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Srnec-20230803114000-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:40, 3 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Srnec-20230803114000-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Srnec-20230803114000-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Last1in-20230804010400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Strong Oppose</b> on several grounds. • Some of these articles are not <s>This isn't supposed to be an article</s> about the <i>word</i> but about the <s>deity</s> things represented by that reconstructed term. Either that is true or the articles need to be TNTed. Even if it were about the words, I'd still oppose (just not as strongly) for the following reasons. • As per pretty much everyone, leading with an asterisk makes finding the article through many search engines difficult or impossible. • Per <a href="/wiki/User:JIP" title="User:JIP">JIP</a>, there is no real value in adding the symbol. All we get by doing so is more confusion and noise in the title. • To <a href="/wiki/User:Srnec" title="User:Srnec">Srnec</a>, I'd say yours is a stronger reason to put it in the body (perhaps the lede) than to put it in the title. • I think that <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy</a> picked the wrong reason to withdraw their !vote as they presented the most convincing reason to <i>not</i> rename the articles: "I did not find... any such words used as titles and containing the *. More general texts use [the symbol] in the text, but explain the usage when first introduced." Wikipedia is meant to be the epitome of a 'general' source (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTTEXTBOOK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTTEXTBOOK">WP:NOTTEXTBOOK</a> point 7). If nothing else is persuasive, that alone should decide the issue. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Last1in" title="User:Last1in">Last1in</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Last1in" title="User talk:Last1in">talk</a>) <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">undated</a> comment added <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Last1in-20230804010400-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:04, 4 August 2023‎ (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Last1in-20230804010400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Last1in-20230804010400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Srnec-20230804011600-Last1in-20230804010400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Last1in" title="User:Last1in">Last1in</a>:</span> *<i>Walhaz</i> was not a deity. <i>This</i> article is very much about a word and not a deity. I haven't checked all the rest. <a href="/wiki/User:Srnec" title="User:Srnec">Srnec</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Srnec" title="User talk:Srnec">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Srnec-20230804011600-Last1in-20230804010400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:16, 4 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Srnec-20230804011600-Last1in-20230804010400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Srnec-20230804011600-Last1in-20230804010400"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SilverLocust-20230804012300-Srnec-20230804011600"></span>Pretty much all the rest are deities from <a href="/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_mythology" title="Proto-Indo-European mythology">Proto-Indo-European mythology</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust"><small style="color: #667; background: white; border: 2px solid; border-radius: 4px; padding: 0 4px">SilverLocust</small></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-SilverLocust-20230804012300-Srnec-20230804011600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:23, 4 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SilverLocust-20230804012300-Srnec-20230804011600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SilverLocust-20230804012300-Srnec-20230804011600"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CX_Zoom-20230804063000-Last1in-20230804010400"></span>I find at least two of the responders saying that article shouldn't have existed or something on that lines, but that is clearly a domain of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AFD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AFD">WP:AFD</a> rather than RM. Here, we choose a title assuming that the article will remain. <span class="nowrap">—<b><a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom" title="User:CX Zoom">CX Zoom</a></b>[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CX_Zoom" title="User talk:CX Zoom">let's talk</a> • {<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CX_Zoom" title="Special:Contributions/CX Zoom">C</a>•<a href="/wiki/User:CX_Zoom/X" title="User:CX Zoom/X">X</a>})</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-CX_Zoom-20230804063000-Last1in-20230804010400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:30, 4 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CX_Zoom-20230804063000-Last1in-20230804010400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CX_Zoom-20230804063000-Last1in-20230804010400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sirfurboy-20230804090800-Last1in-20230804010400"></span>As I am pinged here, I'll respond: I did not find any evidence in the literature of these being used as a subject <i>at all</i> in a general and encyclopaedic fashion, as opposed to scholarly articles, where, per Austronesier's example and others I found, the asterisk is nearly always found. My oppose argument was predicated on the fact that general encyclopaedic treatments would not have an asterisk in the article title, but would likely explain the asterisk usage early in the article body. I have no evidence to support or oppose that contention, and it is that lack of evidence either way that led me to withdraw my oppose. <a href="/wiki/User:Sirfurboy" title="User:Sirfurboy">Sirfurboy🏄</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sirfurboy" title="User talk:Sirfurboy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Sirfurboy-20230804090800-Last1in-20230804010400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:08, 4 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sirfurboy-20230804090800-Last1in-20230804010400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sirfurboy-20230804090800-Last1in-20230804010400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adumbrativus-20230804072900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Comment</b>: I don't see precisely what the technical objection is. We already have some articles with asterisks, for example <a href="/wiki/*astTECS" title="*astTECS">*astTECS</a>. MediaWiki, search engines, and browsers have no difficulty with it in any way, as far as I can personally observe. If your experience is different, that would be helpful information if you would provide reproducible steps.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Separately, note that <a href="/w/index.php?title=H%E2%82%82weh%E2%82%81y%C3%BA&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="H₂weh₁yú (page does not exist)">H₂weh₁yú</a> is now at AFD, for those who wish to read or comment on that: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/H%E2%82%82weh%E2%82%81y%C3%BA" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/H₂weh₁yú">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/H₂weh₁yú</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Adumbrativus" title="User:Adumbrativus">Adumbrativus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adumbrativus" title="User talk:Adumbrativus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Adumbrativus-20230804072900-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:29, 4 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adumbrativus-20230804072900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adumbrativus-20230804072900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li></ul> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doric_Loon-20230804081400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Support</b> - as a linguist I find this more correct, and we should strive to be as correct and scholarly as possible. Keep the version without the asterisk as a redirect, so that the asterisk doesn't make it harder for anyone to find these. We could consider having a little template box explaining the asterisk that is included at the top of these articles, and possibly also of other articles with reconstructed forms in the article body. <a href="/wiki/User:Doric_Loon" title="User:Doric Loon">Doric Loon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doric_Loon" title="User talk:Doric Loon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Doric_Loon-20230804081400-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:14, 4 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doric_Loon-20230804081400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doric_Loon-20230804081400-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aza24-20230805041900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Support</b> – if this is what reliable sources are doing (which it seems like they are) then we should be too. <b><span style="font-family:Lucida;"><a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24"><span style="color:darkred">Aza24</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"><span style="color:#848484"> (talk)</span></a></span></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Aza24-20230805041900-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 5 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aza24-20230805041900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aza24-20230805041900-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rreagan007-20230808162800-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Oppose</b>. I don't think it's a good idea to start an article title with an asterisk for the reasons I stated above. <a href="/wiki/User:Rreagan007" title="User:Rreagan007">Rreagan007</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rreagan007" title="User talk:Rreagan007">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-Rreagan007-20230808162800-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 8 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rreagan007-20230808162800-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rreagan007-20230808162800-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li></ul> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313-20230811211300-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span>Strong support</b>— This has long been the standard and what we expect in linguistics. How can you even understand what specific characters (letters) indicate in reconstructions without recognizing that it is a reconstruction? I would also vote to fix the case of the first letter, as this makes a difference in some languages.<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313" title="Special:Contributions/2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313">2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:*Walhaz#c-2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313-20230811211300-SilverLocust-20230801132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:13, 11 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313-20230811211300-SilverLocust-20230801132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2604:2D80:DE09:D400:7125:F70B:3808:3313-20230811211300-SilverLocust-20230801132300"></span></li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;"></div>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&oldid=1226744825">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:*Walhaz&oldid=1226744825</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_Middle_Ages_articles" title="Category:Start-Class Middle Ages articles">Start-Class Middle Ages articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Middle_Ages_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Middle Ages articles">Low-importance Middle Ages articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_history_articles" title="Category:Start-Class history articles">Start-Class history articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:All_WikiProject_Middle_Ages_pages" title="Category:All WikiProject Middle Ages pages">All WikiProject Middle Ages pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_language_articles" title="Category:Start-Class language articles">Start-Class language articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_language_articles" title="Category:Low-importance language articles">Low-importance language articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Languages_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Languages articles">WikiProject Languages articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:Start-Class Linguistics articles">Start-Class Linguistics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Linguistics articles">Low-importance Linguistics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_etymology_articles" title="Category:Start-Class etymology articles">Start-Class etymology articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Etymology_Task_Force_articles" title="Category:Etymology Task Force articles">Etymology Task Force articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_Theoretical_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:Start-Class Theoretical Linguistics articles">Start-Class Theoretical Linguistics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Theoretical_Linguistics_Task_Force_articles" title="Category:Theoretical Linguistics Task Force articles">Theoretical Linguistics Task Force articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Linguistics articles">WikiProject Linguistics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_history_articles" title="Category:Low-importance history articles">Low-importance history articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_History_articles" title="Category:WikiProject History articles">WikiProject History articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_Romania_articles" title="Category:Start-Class Romania articles">Start-Class Romania articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Romania_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Romania articles">Low-importance Romania articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:All_WikiProject_Romania_pages" title="Category:All WikiProject Romania pages">All WikiProject Romania pages</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 1 June 2024, at 15:13<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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