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.tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1230750088">.mw-parser-output .talkheader{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-body{display:flex}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{display:flex;align-items:center;padding:0.1em}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help{flex:2 1 auto;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#ffffff);color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies+.talkheader-policies{border-left:1px solid #c0c090}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{flex:0 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts>*{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help ul,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies ul{margin:0.1em 0.8em 0 1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation" title="Template:Documentation">Documentation</a> template.<br/></td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Template_talk:Documentation" title="Special:NewSection/Template talk:Documentation">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? 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Substantial changes should first be proposed and discussed here on this page. If the proposal is uncontroversial or has been discussed and is supported by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">consensus</a>, editors may use {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Edit_template-protected" title="Template:Edit template-protected">edit template-protected</a>}} to notify an administrator or template editor to make the requested edit. Usually, any contributor may edit the template's <b><a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation/doc" title="Template:Documentation/doc">documentation</a></b> to add usage notes or <a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">categories</a>. <p>Any contributor may edit the template's <b><a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation/sandbox" title="Template:Documentation/sandbox">sandbox</a></b>. Functionality of the template can be checked using <b><a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation/testcases" title="Template:Documentation/testcases">test cases</a></b>. </p> <div style="padding:0.5em"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1127644699">.mw-parser-output #request_edit_inputbox .commentboxInput,.mw-parser-output #request_edit_inputbox br{display:none}</style> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="commentbox" class="commentbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/w/index.php" method="get" id="request_edit_inputbox"><input type="hidden" value="edit" name="action"/><input type="hidden" value="Template:Request edit button/preload" name="preload"/><input type="hidden" value="Edit template-protected" name="preloadparams[]"/><div class="cdx-text-input"><input type="hidden" name="preloadtitle" class="mw-inputbox-input commentboxInput cdx-text-input__input" value="Edit request {{subst:#time:j F Y}}" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="new" name="section"/><input type="hidden" value="Template talk:Documentation" name="title"/><br/><input type="submit" name="create" value="Request edit" class="cdx-button cdx-button--action-progressive cdx-button--weight-primary"/></form></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Fairytale_key_enter.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png/40px-Fairytale_key_enter.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png/60px-Fairytale_key_enter.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png 2x" data-file-width="64" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></td><td 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Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>The a in ”Northern Sami” should be changed with an á, because it’s the proper way of spelling the language’s name. <a href="/wiki/User:Thatpulpetti" title="User:Thatpulpetti">Thatpulpetti</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thatpulpetti" title="User talk:Thatpulpetti">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Thatpulpetti-20240319011100-Template-protected_edit_request_on_19_March_2024_Spelling/grammar/punctuation/ty" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:11, 19 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Thatpulpetti-20240319011100-Template-protected_edit_request_on_19_March_2024_Spelling/grammar/punctuation/ty"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Thatpulpetti-20240319011100-Template-protected_edit_request_on_19_March_2024_Spelling/grammar/punctuation/ty"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pppery-20240319011400-Thatpulpetti-20240319011100"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/20px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/30px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/40px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="62" data-file-height="62"/></span></span> <b>Not done:</b> this is the <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages" title="Help:Talk pages">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Help:Template" title="Help:Template">template</a> <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation" title="Template:Documentation">Documentation</a>}}</code>. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery"><sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Pppery-20240319011400-Thatpulpetti-20240319011100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:14, 19 March 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pppery-20240319011400-Thatpulpetti-20240319011100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pppery-20240319011400-Thatpulpetti-20240319011100"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Link_to_run_test_cases" data-mw-thread-id="h-Link_to_run_test_cases-20240404111900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Link_to_run_test_cases-20240404111900"></span>Link to run test cases<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Link_to_run_test_cases-20240404111900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Documentation&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Link to run test cases"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MSGJ-20240404111900-Link_to_run_test_cases"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236090951">.mw-parser-output .hatnote{font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output div.hatnote{padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em}.mw-parser-output .hatnote i{font-style:normal}.mw-parser-output .hatnote+link+.hatnote{margin-top:-0.5em}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .hatnote{display:none!important}}</style><div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">See also: <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation/Archive_10#Module_documentation" title="Template talk:Documentation/Archive 10">Template talk:Documentation/Archive 10 § Module documentation</a></div> <p>On module sandboxes, there is a message "See also the companion subpage for test cases (run)." and the "run" is a link to the talk page of the test cases, where the tests are executed. (I don't know where this message is produced because it does not seem to come from <a href="/wiki/Template:Template_sandbox_notice" title="Template:Template sandbox notice">Template:Template sandbox notice</a>.) I would like to propose that the run link be added to this module to appear next to the link to test cases, at the end of the documentation. — Martin <small>(<a href="/wiki/User:MSGJ" title="User:MSGJ">MSGJ</a> · <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MSGJ" title="User talk:MSGJ">talk</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-MSGJ-20240404111900-Link_to_run_test_cases" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:19, 4 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MSGJ-20240404111900-Link_to_run_test_cases"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MSGJ-20240404111900-Link_to_run_test_cases"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Izno-20240428212600-MSGJ-20240404111900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:MSGJ" title="User:MSGJ">MSGJ</a>, this already displays for me on modules in the metadata box (aka "the end of the documentation" box): <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">Editors can experiment in this module's sandbox (edit | diff) and testcases (edit | run) pages.</q>? <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Izno-20240428212600-MSGJ-20240404111900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Izno-20240428212600-MSGJ-20240404111900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Izno-20240428212600-MSGJ-20240404111900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MSGJ-20240429074600-Izno-20240428212600"></span>Yes, I realised this later. I think I was looking at a module which had testcases in Module talk namespace but no unit tests in Module namespace. And the "run" link is not displayed in this case — Martin <small>(<a href="/wiki/User:MSGJ" title="User:MSGJ">MSGJ</a> · <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MSGJ" title="User talk:MSGJ">talk</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-MSGJ-20240429074600-Izno-20240428212600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:46, 29 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MSGJ-20240429074600-Izno-20240428212600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MSGJ-20240429074600-Izno-20240428212600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ahecht-20240814191400-MSGJ-20240429074600"></span>If the run link is a redlink, could it be modified to preload <code>{{#invoke:{{PAGENAME}}|run_tests}}</code> the same way that the testcases link preloads <a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation/preload-module-testcases" title="Template:Documentation/preload-module-testcases">Template:Documentation/preload-module-testcases</a>? <span class="nowrap">--<a href="/wiki/User:Ahecht" title="User:Ahecht">Ahecht</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ahecht" title="User talk:Ahecht"><b style="color:#FFF;background:#04A;display:inline-block;padding:1px;vertical-align:middle;font:bold 50%/1 sans-serif;text-align:center">TALK<br/>PAGE</b></a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Ahecht-20240814191400-MSGJ-20240429074600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:14, 14 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ahecht-20240814191400-MSGJ-20240429074600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ahecht-20240814191400-MSGJ-20240429074600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template-protected_edit_request_on_11_April_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_11_April_2024-20240411190000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_11_April_2024-20240411190000"></span>Template-protected edit request on 11 April 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_11_April_2024-20240411190000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Documentation&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Template-protected edit request on 11 April 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411190000-Template-protected_edit_request_on_11_April_2024"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="template"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> to <a href="/wiki/Module:Documentation" title="Module:Documentation">Module:Documentation</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>Please add the following lines to the top of the module: </p><p><code>local makeInvokeFunc = require("Module:MakeInvokeFunc")(p)</code> </p><p>And then remove the explicit function definition for <code>makeInvokeFunc</code> from the module at line 94. </p><p>I created that module because it actually has a lot of potential for utility across modules. If an admin could also protect <a href="/wiki/Module:MakeInvokeFunc" title="Module:MakeInvokeFunc">Module:MakeInvokeFunc</a> to be template or full protected then it would address the concerns of "high risk". <a href="/wiki/User:Awesome_Aasim" title="User:Awesome Aasim">Awesome</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Awesome_Aasim" title="User talk:Awesome Aasim">Aasim</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411190000-Template-protected_edit_request_on_11_April_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:00, 11 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411190000-Template-protected_edit_request_on_11_April_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411190000-Template-protected_edit_request_on_11_April_2024"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411191000-Awesome_Aasim-20240411190000"></span>Pause for now because there is one more thing I realize this module needs. <a href="/wiki/User:Awesome_Aasim" title="User:Awesome Aasim">Awesome</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Awesome_Aasim" title="User talk:Awesome Aasim">Aasim</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411191000-Awesome_Aasim-20240411190000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 11 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411191000-Awesome_Aasim-20240411190000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411191000-Awesome_Aasim-20240411190000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411225600-Awesome_Aasim-20240411191000"></span>Okay reopening, but with modifications. Also do the same with <code>local message = require("Module:Message")(cfg)</code>. These helper functions can be quite useful in other modules which is why I pulled them out. Also protect afterword. <a href="/wiki/User:Awesome_Aasim" title="User:Awesome Aasim">Awesome</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Awesome_Aasim" title="User talk:Awesome Aasim">Aasim</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411225600-Awesome_Aasim-20240411191000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:56, 11 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411225600-Awesome_Aasim-20240411191000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Awesome_Aasim-20240411225600-Awesome_Aasim-20240411191000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pppery-20240415023700-Awesome_Aasim-20240411225600"></span>Aren't you the same person who <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection/Archive/2024/03#Module:Documentation" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Archive/2024/03">claimed only a few weeks ago</a> that this module should never need to be edited? Anyway, I think this request simply makes things more complicated for no apparent benefit, so deactivating. There's no harm in a 15-line function that has never changed in years being duplicated in a few places. On top of that it isn't really that genericizable in the first place since each module uses a slightly different version to handle things like wrapper templates, whether to trim whitespace, etc. that vary from template to template. Deactivating. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery"><sub style="color:#800000">it has begun...</sub></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Pppery-20240415023700-Awesome_Aasim-20240411225600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pppery-20240415023700-Awesome_Aasim-20240411225600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pppery-20240415023700-Awesome_Aasim-20240411225600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates-20240627195200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates-20240627195200"></span>Linking to <a href="/wiki/Help:Template" title="Help:Template">Help:Template</a> from documentation of templates<span class="anchor" id="Discussion_at_Template_talk:High-use"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates-20240627195200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Documentation&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Linking to Help:Template from documentation of templates"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrybak-20240814210600-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1235781174">.mw-parser-output .hmbox-outer{margin-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .hmbox-inner{display:inline-block;color:var(--color-base,#202122);border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-interactive-subtle,#f8f9fa);margin-right:0.5em;padding:0.3em 0.5em}</style><div role="note" class="hmbox-outer unresolved"><div class="hmbox-inner"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/20px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/30px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Purple_arrow_down.svg/40px-Purple_arrow_down.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> Moved from <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:High-use" title="Template talk:High-use">Template talk:High-use</a></div> – <span style="font-size: 85%">I hope moving this section here will generate more discussion and a more robust consensus for this idea from several weeks ago. A <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1219369702/1231366697" title="Special:Diff/1219369702/1231366697">possible implementation</a> of the proposed changes is still live in the sandbox, so interested editors can check <a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation/testcases#Documentation/sandbox" title="Template:Documentation/testcases">the testcases</a> for how it looks. —⁠<a href="/wiki/User:Andrybak" title="User:Andrybak">andrybak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrybak" title="User talk:Andrybak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Andrybak-20240814210600-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:06, 14 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrybak-20240814210600-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrybak-20240814210600-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrybak-20240627195200-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates"></span>When <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1231331021" title="Special:Diff/1231331021">updating</a> the documentation of <span class="nowrap">{{citation needed}}</span>, I realized that <a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation" title="Template:Documentation">Template:Documentation</a> doesn't have a link to <a href="/wiki/Help:Template" title="Help:Template">Help:Template</a>, which answers the question of 'what is a "template"?'. Wikilinking the word "Template" in the header "Template documentation" at the very top seems too disruptive (see <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1231335346" title="Special:Diff/1231335346">Special:Diff/1231335346</a> and <a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation/testcases#Documentation/sandbox" title="Template:Documentation/testcases">Template:Documentation/testcases#Documentation/sandbox</a>). Template:Documentation does link to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_documentation" title="Wikipedia:Template documentation">Wikipedia:Template documentation</a> and <a href="/wiki/Help:Transclusion" title="Help:Transclusion">Help:Transclusion</a>, but at the very bottom, which is often not visible <a href="/wiki/Below_the_fold" class="mw-redirect" title="Below the fold">below the fold</a>. </p><p>Newbies not familiar with templates are more likely to end up seeing documentation pages of high use templates. What if <a href="/wiki/Template:High_use" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:High use">Template:High use</a> linked to <a href="/wiki/Help:Template" title="Help:Template">Help:Template</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Lua" title="Wikipedia:Lua">Wikipedia:Lua</a>, as implemented in <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1231332038" title="Special:Diff/1231332038">Special:Diff/1231332038</a>? However, the banner text of <a href="/wiki/Template:High_use" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:High use">Template:High use</a> is aimed at implementors/editors of templates, who ought to be familiar with templates. —⁠<a href="/wiki/User:Andrybak" title="User:Andrybak">andrybak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrybak" title="User talk:Andrybak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Andrybak-20240627195200-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:52, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrybak-20240627195200-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrybak-20240627195200-Linking_to_Help:Template_from_documentation_of_templates"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SWinxy-20240627210700-Andrybak-20240627195200"></span>One idea could be to add [<a href="/wiki/Help:Template" title="Help:Template">help</a>] alongside [view] [edit] [history] [purge] at the end. <a href="/wiki/User:SWinxy" title="User:SWinxy">SWinxy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SWinxy" title="User talk:SWinxy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-SWinxy-20240627210700-Andrybak-20240627195200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:07, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SWinxy-20240627210700-Andrybak-20240627195200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SWinxy-20240627210700-Andrybak-20240627195200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vanisaac-20240627215500-SWinxy-20240627210700"></span>I think the help would be better placed directly after [history], but otherwise agree that might be a good solution. I'm thinking that a lot of mature template editors utilize [purge] on instinct as the last option in that list, and wouldn't want that replaced. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanisaac" title="User:Vanisaac">Van</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanisaac" title="User talk:Vanisaac">Isaac</a>, GHTV<sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vanisaac" title="Special:Contributions/Vanisaac">cont</a></sup><sub style="margin-left:-3.5ex"><small><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WPWR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WPWR">WpWS</a></small></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Vanisaac-20240627215500-SWinxy-20240627210700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:55, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vanisaac-20240627215500-SWinxy-20240627210700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vanisaac-20240627215500-SWinxy-20240627210700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrybak-20240627220000-Vanisaac-20240627215500"></span>An implementation of SWinxy's idea would look something like this: <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1231363344" title="Special:Diff/1231363344">main module</a> and <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1231362592" title="Special:Diff/1231362592">/config</a> (I didn't update the corresponding code comments). With VanIsaac's suggestion: <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1231363718" title="Special:Diff/1231363718">the purge link last in the list</a>. Results are visible at <a href="/wiki/Template:Documentation/testcases#Documentation/sandbox" title="Template:Documentation/testcases">Template:Documentation/testcases#Documentation/sandbox</a>. —⁠<a href="/wiki/User:Andrybak" title="User:Andrybak">andrybak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrybak" title="User talk:Andrybak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Andrybak-20240627220000-Vanisaac-20240627215500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:00, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrybak-20240627220000-Vanisaac-20240627215500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrybak-20240627220000-Vanisaac-20240627215500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrybak-20240627220200-Andrybak-20240627220000"></span>I notice that test case with "This is in line documentation." doesn't have any links at all. A [help] link there would be helpful as well. —⁠<a href="/wiki/User:Andrybak" title="User:Andrybak">andrybak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrybak" title="User talk:Andrybak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Andrybak-20240627220200-Andrybak-20240627220000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:02, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrybak-20240627220200-Andrybak-20240627220000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrybak-20240627220200-Andrybak-20240627220000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrybak-20240627221200-Andrybak-20240627220200"></span>I've implemented <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1231366697" title="Special:Diff/1231366697">a hacky way</a> of adding a [help] link to inline documentation. "Hacky", because there's already an <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">if</code> for "inline" vs "/doc subpage", which makes the separation of concerns between functions <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">makeStartBoxLinksData</code> and <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">renderStartBoxLinks</code> awkward. —⁠<a href="/wiki/User:Andrybak" title="User:Andrybak">andrybak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrybak" title="User talk:Andrybak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Andrybak-20240627221200-Andrybak-20240627220200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:12, 27 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrybak-20240627221200-Andrybak-20240627220200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrybak-20240627221200-Andrybak-20240627220200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Izno-20240817170800-SWinxy-20240627210700"></span>I think a form like this ends up being pretty noisy, it's a link that gets put in with a bunch of page-specific links (so, cognitive dissonance for even the casual user), and <i>help</i> as the specific text doesn't make it clear how it's relevant to the specific page. <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Izno-20240817170800-SWinxy-20240627210700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:08, 17 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Izno-20240817170800-SWinxy-20240627210700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Izno-20240817170800-SWinxy-20240627210700"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Izno-20240817170900-Andrybak-20240627195200"></span>Besides the criticism of the specifics, I think there's been some agreement that our "how to remove this link" additions in amboxes have not performed as expected. I don't think introing what a template is here is all that particularly helpful. Probably the modern way for someone to learn what one is is simply to google, which would probaby pop up <a href="/wiki/Help:Template" title="Help:Template">Help:Template</a> in short time. <a href="/wiki/User:Izno" title="User:Izno">Izno</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Izno" title="User talk:Izno">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Izno-20240817170900-Andrybak-20240627195200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:09, 17 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Izno-20240817170900-Andrybak-20240627195200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Izno-20240817170900-Andrybak-20240627195200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrybak-20240820191500-Izno-20240817170900"></span>I agree with both arguments: the header is too crowded, those who want to know will find the help pages. Consider my proposal withdrawn. —⁠<a href="/wiki/User:Andrybak" title="User:Andrybak">andrybak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrybak" title="User talk:Andrybak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Documentation#c-Andrybak-20240820191500-Izno-20240817170900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:15, 20 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrybak-20240820191500-Izno-20240817170900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrybak-20240820191500-Izno-20240817170900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Documentation&oldid=1250053914">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Documentation&oldid=1250053914</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden category: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_pages_using_copied_template" title="Category:Wikipedia pages using copied template">Wikipedia pages using copied template</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 8 October 2024, at 06:55<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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