CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-sticky-header-enabled vector-toc-available" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <title>Talk:Portrait of Monsieur Bertin - Wikipedia</title> <script>(function(){var className="client-js vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-sticky-header-enabled vector-toc-available";var cookie=document.cookie.match(/(?:^|; )enwikimwclientpreferences=([^;]+)/);if(cookie){cookie[1].split('%2C').forEach(function(pref){className=className.replace(new RegExp('(^| )'+pref.replace(/-clientpref-\w+$|[^\w-]+/g,'')+'-clientpref-\\w+( |$)'),'$1'+pref+'$2');});}document.documentElement.className=className;}());RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy", "wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"4831a591-ae32-4e7d-94cd-62c8722fe0da","wgCanonicalNamespace":"Talk","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":1,"wgPageName":"Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin","wgTitle":"Portrait of Monsieur Bertin","wgCurRevisionId":1204859283,"wgRevisionId":1204859283,"wgArticleId":24318763,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":["Talk pages with reference errors","Wikipedia featured articles","Featured articles that have appeared on the main page","Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once","FA-Class visual arts articles","WikiProject Visual arts articles"],"wgPageViewLanguage":"en","wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin","wgRelevantArticleId":24318763,"wgIsProbablyEditable":true ,"wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":[],"wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgCiteReferencePreviewsActive":false,"wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{"status":{"levels":1}}},"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":0,"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","pageVariantFallbacks":"en"},"wgMFDisplayWikibaseDescriptions":{"search":true,"watchlist":true,"tagline":false,"nearby":true},"wgWMESchemaEditAttemptStepOversample":false,"wgWMEPageLength":8000,"wgRelatedArticlesCompat":[],"wgEditSubmitButtonLabelPublish":true,"wgDiscussionToolsFeaturesEnabled":{"replytool":true,"newtopictool":true,"sourcemodetoolbar":true,"topicsubscription":false,"autotopicsub":false,"visualenhancements":false,"visualenhancements_reply":false,"visualenhancements_pageframe":false},"wgDiscussionToolsFallbackEditMode":"source","wgULSPosition":"interlanguage","wgULSisCompactLinksEnabled":false, "wgVector2022LanguageInHeader":true,"wgULSisLanguageSelectorEmpty":true,"wgCheckUserClientHintsHeadersJsApi":["brands","architecture","bitness","fullVersionList","mobile","model","platform","platformVersion"],"GEHomepageSuggestedEditsEnableTopics":true,"wgGETopicsMatchModeEnabled":false,"wgGEStructuredTaskRejectionReasonTextInputEnabled":false,"wgGELevelingUpEnabledForUser":false};RLSTATE={"ext.globalCssJs.user.styles":"ready","site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","ext.globalCssJs.user":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","ext.cite.styles":"ready","mediawiki.page.gallery.styles":"ready","ext.discussionTools.init.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.styles":"ready","oojs-ui.styles.indicators":"ready","mediawiki.widgets.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.icons":"ready","skins.vector.search.codex.styles":"ready","skins.vector.styles":"ready","skins.vector.icons":"ready","jquery.makeCollapsible.styles":"ready","ext.wikimediamessages.styles":"ready", "ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript":"ready","ext.uls.interlanguage":"ready","ext.wikimediaBadges":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["ext.cite.ux-enhancements","site","mediawiki.page.ready","jquery.makeCollapsible","mediawiki.toc","skins.vector.js","ext.centralNotice.geoIP","ext.centralNotice.startUp","ext.gadget.ReferenceTooltips","ext.gadget.switcher","ext.urlShortener.toolbar","ext.centralauth.centralautologin","mmv.bootstrap","ext.popups","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.init","ext.visualEditor.targetLoader","ext.echo.centralauth","ext.discussionTools.init","ext.eventLogging","ext.wikimediaEvents","ext.navigationTiming","ext.uls.interface","ext.cx.eventlogging.campaigns","ext.checkUser.clientHints","ext.growthExperiments.SuggestedEditSession"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.impl(function(){return["user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"}); }];});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.cite.styles%7Cext.discussionTools.init.styles%7Cext.uls.interlanguage%7Cext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript%7Cext.wikimediaBadges%7Cext.wikimediamessages.styles%7Cjquery.makeCollapsible.styles%7Cmediawiki.page.gallery.styles%7Cmediawiki.widgets.styles%7Coojs-ui-core.icons%2Cstyles%7Coojs-ui.styles.indicators%7Cskins.vector.icons%2Cstyles%7Cskins.vector.search.codex.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <script async="" src="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector-2022"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.44.0-wmf.12"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin-when-cross-origin"> <meta name="robots" content="max-image-preview:standard"> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1120"> <meta property="og:title" content="Talk:Portrait of Monsieur Bertin - Wikipedia"> <meta property="og:type" content="website"> <link rel="preconnect" href="//upload.wikimedia.org"> <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/static/apple-touch/wikipedia.png"> <link rel="icon" href="/static/favicon/wikipedia.ico"> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/rest.php/v1/search" title="Wikipedia (en)"> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=rsd"> <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin"> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//meta.wikimedia.org" /> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin--responsive skin-vector skin-vector-search-vue mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-1 ns-talk mw-editable page-Talk_Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin rootpage-Talk_Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin skin-vector-2022 action-view"><a class="mw-jump-link" href="#bodyContent">Jump to content</a> <div class="vector-header-container"> <header class="vector-header mw-header"> <div class="vector-header-start"> <nav class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-main-menu-dropdown vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" title="Main menu" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Main menu" > <label id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-label" for="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-menu mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-menu"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Main menu</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-main-menu" class="vector-main-menu vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-main-menu-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="main-menu-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-main-menu" data-pinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Main menu</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-navigation" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-navigation" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Navigation </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-mainpage-description" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Visit the main page [z]" accesskey="z"><span>Main page</span></a></li><li id="n-contents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents" title="Guides to browsing Wikipedia"><span>Contents</span></a></li><li id="n-currentevents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Current_events" title="Articles related to current events"><span>Current events</span></a></li><li id="n-randompage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Visit a randomly selected article [x]" accesskey="x"><span>Random article</span></a></li><li id="n-aboutsite" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About" title="Learn about Wikipedia and how it works"><span>About Wikipedia</span></a></li><li id="n-contactpage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us" title="How to contact Wikipedia"><span>Contact us</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-interaction" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-interaction" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Contribute </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-help" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia"><span>Help</span></a></li><li id="n-introduction" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Learn how to edit Wikipedia"><span>Learn to edit</span></a></li><li id="n-portal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_portal" title="The hub for editors"><span>Community portal</span></a></li><li id="n-recentchanges" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChanges" title="A list of recent changes to Wikipedia [r]" accesskey="r"><span>Recent changes</span></a></li><li id="n-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard" title="Add images or other media for use on Wikipedia"><span>Upload file</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" class="mw-logo"> <img class="mw-logo-icon" src="/static/images/icons/wikipedia.png" alt="" aria-hidden="true" height="50" width="50"> <span class="mw-logo-container skin-invert"> <img class="mw-logo-wordmark" alt="Wikipedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-wordmark-en.svg" style="width: 7.5em; height: 1.125em;"> <img class="mw-logo-tagline" alt="The Free Encyclopedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg" width="117" height="13" style="width: 7.3125em; height: 0.8125em;"> </span> </a> </div> <div class="vector-header-end"> <div id="p-search" role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-collapses vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box-auto-expand-width vector-search-box"> <a href="/wiki/Special:Search" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only search-toggle" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-search mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-search"></span> <span>Search</span> </a> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail cdx-typeahead-search--auto-expand-width"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="searchform" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div id="simpleSearch" class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" aria-label="Search Wikipedia" autocapitalize="sentences" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f" id="searchInput" > <span class="cdx-text-input__icon cdx-text-input__start-icon"></span> </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-user-links vector-user-links-wide" aria-label="Personal tools"> <div class="vector-user-links-main"> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-preferences" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-userpage" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown " title="Change the appearance of the page's font size, width, and color" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Appearance" > <label id="vector-appearance-dropdown-label" for="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-appearance mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-appearance"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Appearance</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-notifications" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-overflow" class="vector-menu mw-portlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/?wmf_source=donate&wmf_medium=sidebar&wmf_campaign=en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en" class=""><span>Donate</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-createaccount-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Talk%3APortrait+of+Monsieur+Bertin" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory" class=""><span>Create account</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-login-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Talk%3APortrait+of+Monsieur+Bertin" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o" class=""><span>Log in</span></a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div id="vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-user-menu vector-button-flush-right vector-user-menu-logged-out" title="Log in and more options" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Personal tools" > <label id="vector-user-links-dropdown-label" for="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-ellipsis mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-ellipsis"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Personal tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal user-links-collapsible-item" title="User menu" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/?wmf_source=donate&wmf_medium=sidebar&wmf_campaign=en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en"><span>Donate</span></a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Talk%3APortrait+of+Monsieur+Bertin" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-userAdd mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-userAdd"></span> <span>Create account</span></a></li><li id="pt-login" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Talk%3APortrait+of+Monsieur+Bertin" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-logIn mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-logIn"></span> <span>Log in</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-user-menu-anon-editor" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-user-menu-anon-editor" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Pages for logged out editors <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" aria-label="Learn more about editing"><span>learn more</span></a> </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-anoncontribs" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyContributions" title="A list of edits made from this IP address [y]" accesskey="y"><span>Contributions</span></a></li><li id="pt-anontalk" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyTalk" title="Discussion about edits from this IP address [n]" accesskey="n"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </header> </div> <div class="mw-page-container"> <div class="mw-page-container-inner"> <div class="vector-sitenotice-container"> <div id="siteNotice"></div> </div> <div class="vector-column-start"> <div class="vector-main-menu-container"> <div id="mw-navigation"> <nav id="mw-panel" class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav id="mw-panel-toc" aria-label="Contents" data-event-name="ui.sidebar-toc" class="mw-table-of-contents-container vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-toc-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-toc" class="vector-toc vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-toc-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="toc-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-toc" > <h2 class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Contents</h2> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-Comment" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Comment"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>Comment</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Comment-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Gallery" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Gallery"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Gallery</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Gallery-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Inspiration_for_the_pose" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Inspiration_for_the_pose"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Inspiration for the pose</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Inspiration_for_the_pose-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Then_there's_this" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Then_there's_this"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Then there's this</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Then_there's_this-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Picasso" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Picasso"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Picasso</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Picasso-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lede" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lede"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Lede</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Lede-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" title="Table of Contents" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Portrait of Monsieur Bertin</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang mw-portlet-lang-icon-only" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector-empty" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. Add the article for other languages" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only mw-portlet-lang-heading-empty" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-language mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-language"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Add languages</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="mw-portlet-empty-language-selector-body"> Page contents not supported in other languages. </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-main" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin" title="View the content page [c]" accesskey="c"><span>Article</span></a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin" rel="discussion" title="Discuss improvements to the content page [t]" accesskey="t"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Change language variant" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">English</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Views"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="istalk vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-addsection" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit&section=new" title="Start a new section [+]" accesskey="+"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=history" title="Past revisions of this page [h]" accesskey="h"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Tools" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Tools</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="More options" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Actions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="istalk vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-addsection" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit&section=new"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=history"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j"><span>What links here</span></a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k"><span>Related changes</span></a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" accesskey="u"><span>Upload file</span></a></li><li id="t-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:SpecialPages" title="A list of all special pages [q]" accesskey="q"><span>Special pages</span></a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&oldid=1204859283" title="Permanent link to this revision of this page"><span>Permanent link</span></a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=info" title="More information about this page"><span>Page information</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTalk%3APortrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin"><span>Get shortened URL</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTalk%3APortrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin"><span>Download QR code</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Print/export </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:DownloadAsPdf&page=Talk%3APortrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=show-download-screen" title="Download this page as a PDF file"><span>Download as PDF</span></a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&printable=yes" title="Printable version of this page [p]" accesskey="p"><span>Printable version</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> In other projects </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1135653291">@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .article-history{min-width:80%}}</style><table class="article-history tmbox tmbox-notice"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Featured_article_star.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Featured article"><img alt="Featured article" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/50px-Featured_article_star.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/75px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/100px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="180"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>Portrait of Monsieur Bertin</b> is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles" title="Wikipedia:Featured articles">featured article</a>; it (or a previous version of it) has been <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Portrait of Monsieur Bertin/archive1">identified</a></b> as one of the best articles produced by the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedians">Wikipedia community</a>. Even so, if you can update or improve it, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold" title="Wikipedia:Be bold">please do so</a>.</td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Main Page trophy"><img alt="Main Page trophy" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg/30px-Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="27" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg/45px-Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg/60px-Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="103" data-file-height="94"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/June_11,_2016" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article/June 11, 2016">Today's featured article</a> on June 11, 2016.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="width:100%"><table class="article-history-milestones" style="width:100%;font-size:90%"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" style="font-size:110%">Article milestones</th></tr><tr style="text-align:left"><th>Date</th><th>Process</th><th>Result</th></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&oldid=657042596">April 18, 2015</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Portrait of Monsieur Bertin/archive1">Featured article candidate</a></b></td><td>Promoted</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1243927654">.mw-parser-output .banner-shell{border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:4px}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-header{text-align:center;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{padding:2px 4px;background:#fffaef;color:inherit;border:1px dotted gray}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox{margin:2px 0;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox.mbox-small{line-height:1.5em;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner .banner-shell-outside{display:none}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpbs{width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .assess{width:60px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-header{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em 0.25em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-header{display:table-row}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb:not(.mw-collapsed) .wpb-header-icon a{display:none}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell wpbs mw-collapsible"><tbody><tr><td class="assess"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Featured_article_star.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="FA-Class article"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/35px-Featured_article_star.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="35" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/53px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/70px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="180"/></a></span></td><td class="banner-shell-header" style="text-align:left;font-weight:normal">This article is rated <b>FA-class</b> on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale.<br/>It is of interest to the following <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProjects</a>:</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259570071">.mw-parser-output .wpb-header,.mw-parser-output .wpb-metadata,.mw-parser-output .wpb-iefix{display:none}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-name{text-align:right;padding:0.3em 1em 0.3em 0.3em;width:50%;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-assessment{text-align:left;width:50%;padding:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-combined{text-align:left;padding:0.3em 0.3em 0.3em 0;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-bubbles{border-radius:.5em;padding:0 .3em;margin-left:0.5em;white-space:nowrap;font-weight:normal;color:black}.mw-parser-output .wpb-nested-task-force{font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-icon{width:50px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#F5F5F5;border-width:1px;width:500px}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main{background-color:#FFFAEF;padding:3px 0 3px 0.7em}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-main{padding:3px 5px}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#FFFAEF}.mw-parser-output .wpb-main>table{background-color:transparent;border:none;padding:0;width:100%;border-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-image{padding:2px 0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-head{text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-notes{padding:0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-notes>table{width:100%;background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-gutter{padding:2px 0 0 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#f8eaba;border:none}.mw-parser-output .wpb-table{table-layout:fixed}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpb{min-width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .assess{font-weight:bold;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;color:black}.mw-parser-output .import-top{background-color:#FFBFFF}.mw-parser-output .import-high{background-color:#FFCCFF}.mw-parser-output .import-mid{background-color:#FFD9FF}.mw-parser-output .import-low{background-color:#FFE7FF}.mw-parser-output .import-bottom{background-color:#FFEBFF}.mw-parser-output .import-na{background-color:#F5F5F5}.mw-parser-output .import-unknown{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .class-fa,.mw-parser-output .class-fl,.mw-parser-output .class-fm{background-color:#BED3FF}.mw-parser-output .class-a,.mw-parser-output .class-al{background-color:#C0FFFF}.mw-parser-output .class-ga{background-color:#C0FFC0}.mw-parser-output .class-b,.mw-parser-output .class-bl{background-color:#DFFFBF}.mw-parser-output .class-c,.mw-parser-output .class-cl{background-color:#FFFFBE}.mw-parser-output .class-start{background-color:#FFDBBF}.mw-parser-output .class-stub,.mw-parser-output .class-sl{background-color:#FFC0C0}.mw-parser-output .class-list{background-color:#D2C0FF}.mw-parser-output .class-na{background-color:#F5F5F5}.mw-parser-output .class-category{background-color:#FFDB58}.mw-parser-output .class-disambig{background-color:#00FA9A}.mw-parser-output .class-draft{background-color:#E7B198}.mw-parser-output .class-file{background-color:#DDCCFF}.mw-parser-output .class-future{background-color:#B4BBFF}.mw-parser-output .class-portal{background-color:#DDB1BC}.mw-parser-output .class-project{background-color:#C0C090}.mw-parser-output .class-redirect{background-color:#C0C0C0}.mw-parser-output .class-sia{background-color:#E9DAFF}.mw-parser-output .class-user{background-color:#DDD06A}.mw-parser-output .class-template{background-color:#FBCEB1}.mw-parser-output .class-unassessed{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .conflict{border:0.2em solid red}.mw-parser-output .inactive-wikiproject .wpb-header-bubbles{color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WPVisualArts.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/WPVisualArts.svg/35px-WPVisualArts.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/WPVisualArts.svg/53px-WPVisualArts.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/WPVisualArts.svg/69px-WPVisualArts.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="169" data-file-height="122"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Visual_arts" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Visual arts">Visual arts</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WPVisualArts.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/WPVisualArts.svg/80px-WPVisualArts.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="58" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/WPVisualArts.svg/120px-WPVisualArts.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/WPVisualArts.svg/160px-WPVisualArts.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="169" data-file-height="122"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1266661725">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WPVA-khamsa.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/WPVA-khamsa.svg/22px-WPVA-khamsa.svg.png" decoding="async" width="22" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/WPVA-khamsa.svg/32px-WPVA-khamsa.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/WPVA-khamsa.svg/43px-WPVA-khamsa.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="124" data-file-height="160"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Visual_arts" title="Portal:Visual arts">Visual arts portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Visual_arts" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Visual arts">WikiProject Visual arts</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Visual_arts" title="Visual arts">visual arts</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Visual_arts" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Visual arts">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Visual arts</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Visual arts</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Visual arts</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">visual arts</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Comment" data-mw-thread-id="h-Comment-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Comment-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z"></span>Comment<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Comment-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Comment"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z-Comment"></span>I don't know how much will be added in terms of content here, but I think to avoid the white space, either Gertrude Stein or the engraving of Bertin could go to the gallery, and something removed from there. <a href="/wiki/User:Truthkeeper88" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Truthkeeper88">Truthkeeper88</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Truthkeeper88" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Truthkeeper88">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z-Comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:01, 21 June 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z-Comment"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z-Comment"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Modernist-2011-06-21T20:15:00.000Z-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z"></span>I did in the whitespace and filled in the gallery...<a href="/wiki/User:Modernist" title="User:Modernist">Modernist</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Modernist" title="User talk:Modernist">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Modernist-2011-06-21T20:15:00.000Z-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 21 June 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Modernist-2011-06-21T20:15:00.000Z-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Modernist-2011-06-21T20:15:00.000Z-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Gallery" data-mw-thread-id="h-Gallery-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Gallery-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z"></span>Gallery<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Gallery-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Gallery"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <ul class="gallery mw-gallery-traditional" style="max-width: 1158px;"> <li class="gallerybox" style="width: 185px"> <div class="thumb" style="width: 180px; height: 180px;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z-Gallery"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Johann_Joseph_Achermann_(manner_of_Balthasar_Denner)_-_old_woman_(INV_1209_Louvre).jpg" class="mw-file-description" title="Attributed to Johann Joseph Achermann. Portrait of an Old Woman, in the manner of Balthasar Denner, a revivalist of Eyckian realism and his attention to the effects of human aging reminded contemporary critics of the Bertin portrait[1]"><img alt="Attributed to Johann Joseph Achermann. Portrait of an Old Woman, in the manner of Balthasar Denner, a revivalist of Eyckian realism and his attention to the effects of human aging reminded contemporary critics of the Bertin portrait[1]" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Johann_Joseph_Achermann_%28manner_of_Balthasar_Denner%29_-_old_woman_%28INV_1209_Louvre%29.jpg/122px-Johann_Joseph_Achermann_%28manner_of_Balthasar_Denner%29_-_old_woman_%28INV_1209_Louvre%29.jpg" decoding="async" width="122" height="150" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Johann_Joseph_Achermann_%28manner_of_Balthasar_Denner%29_-_old_woman_%28INV_1209_Louvre%29.jpg/183px-Johann_Joseph_Achermann_%28manner_of_Balthasar_Denner%29_-_old_woman_%28INV_1209_Louvre%29.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Johann_Joseph_Achermann_%28manner_of_Balthasar_Denner%29_-_old_woman_%28INV_1209_Louvre%29.jpg/244px-Johann_Joseph_Achermann_%28manner_of_Balthasar_Denner%29_-_old_woman_%28INV_1209_Louvre%29.jpg 2x" data-file-width="488" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></div> <div class="gallerytext">Attributed to Johann Joseph Achermann. <i>Portrait of an Old Woman</i>, in the manner of <a href="/wiki/Balthasar_Denner" title="Balthasar Denner">Balthasar Denner</a>, a revivalist of <a href="/wiki/Jan_van_Eyck" title="Jan van Eyck">Eyckian</a> realism and his attention to the effects of human aging reminded contemporary critics of the Bertin portrait<sup id="cite_ref-RR102_1-0" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-RR102-1"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> </div> </li> <li class="gallerybox" style="width: 185px"> <div class="thumb" style="width: 180px; height: 180px;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Napol%C3%A9on_Joseph_Charles_Paul_Bonaparte_painting.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Napol%C3%A9on_Joseph_Charles_Paul_Bonaparte_painting.jpg/114px-Napol%C3%A9on_Joseph_Charles_Paul_Bonaparte_painting.jpg" decoding="async" width="114" height="150" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Napol%C3%A9on_Joseph_Charles_Paul_Bonaparte_painting.jpg/171px-Napol%C3%A9on_Joseph_Charles_Paul_Bonaparte_painting.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d6/Napol%C3%A9on_Joseph_Charles_Paul_Bonaparte_painting.jpg/228px-Napol%C3%A9on_Joseph_Charles_Paul_Bonaparte_painting.jpg 2x" data-file-width="739" data-file-height="972"/></a></span></div> <div class="gallerytext"></div> </li> </ul> <dl><dd>I'm not seeing some of these, and especially not the last. I think a gallery really needs to display more obvious connections, and I think it would be all too easy for us to have forty pics of blokes sitting in chairs. <a href="/wiki/User:Kafka_Liz" title="User:Kafka Liz">Kafka Liz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kafka_Liz" title="User talk:Kafka Liz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z-Gallery" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:25, 7 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z-Gallery"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z-Gallery"></span></dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1232521257">.mw-parser-output .reflist-talk{margin:auto 0;border:1px dashed var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:4px;padding-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-talk-title{font-weight:bold}</style><div class="reflist-talk"> <p class="reflist-talk-title">References</p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239543626">.mw-parser-output .reflist{margin-bottom:0.5em;list-style-type:decimal}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .reflist{font-size:90%}}.mw-parser-output .reflist .references{font-size:100%;margin-bottom:0;list-style-type:inherit}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-2{column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-3{column-width:25em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns{margin-top:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns ol{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns li{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-alpha{list-style-type:upper-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-roman{list-style-type:upper-roman}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-alpha{list-style-type:lower-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-greek{list-style-type:lower-greek}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-roman{list-style-type:lower-roman}</style><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-RR102-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-RR102_1-0">^</a></b></span> <span class="error mw-ext-cite-error" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1209489738">.mw-parser-output .brokenref{display:none}</style><span class="brokenref">Cite error: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1209489738"><span class="brokenref">The named reference <code>RR102</code> was invoked but never defined (see the <a href="/wiki/Help:Cite_errors/Cite_error_references_no_text" title="Help:Cite errors/Cite error references no text">help page</a>).</span></span></span></li> </ol></div></div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Inspiration_for_the_pose" data-mw-thread-id="h-Inspiration_for_the_pose-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Inspiration_for_the_pose-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z"></span>Inspiration for the pose<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Inspiration_for_the_pose-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Inspiration for the pose"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z-Inspiration_for_the_pose"></span>I've placed the version of the story given by Robert Rosenblum in a footnote, as all other sources I've been able to check make reference only to Amaury-Duval's account and sometimes also Delaborde's, both of which say Ingres solved the problem of the pose after observing Bertin. The only reference to Rosenblum's version I've found is by Arikha (1986; p.3), who reports the story Amaury-Duval says was told to him by Bertin, and adds in a footnote: "Robert Rosenblum gives a different version. 'One day at an outdoor café, he suddenly observed a striking pose that his seated friend and student, Amaury-Duval, had taken, and immediately decided on this for the portrait,' Rosenblum, 1967, p. 134. Professor Rosenblum does not give his source, but whatever it may be, it contradicts the description given by Amaury-Duval himself." <a href="/wiki/User:Ewulp" title="User:Ewulp">Ewulp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ewulp" title="User talk:Ewulp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z-Inspiration_for_the_pose" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:06, 17 January 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z-Inspiration_for_the_pose"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z-Inspiration_for_the_pose"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-01-17T11:00:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z"></span>Yes. The article is now reading "Ingres' early biographers provide differing anecdotes", which is safest. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-01-17T11:00:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:00, 17 January 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-01-17T11:00:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-01-17T11:00:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Then_there's_this" data-mw-thread-id="h-Then_there's_this-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z"><span id="Then_there.27s_this"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Then_there's_this-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z"></span>Then there's this<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Then_there's_this-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Then there's this"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Marcel_Broodthaers" title="Marcel Broodthaers"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z-Then_there's_this"></span>Marcel Broodthaers</a> <i>Mademoiselle Rivière and Monsieur Bertin,</i> 1975 <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.tate.org.uk/art/artworks/broodthaers-mademoiselle-riviere-and-monsieur-bertin-t01977">[1]</a> at the Tate...<a href="/wiki/User:Modernist" title="User:Modernist">Modernist</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Modernist" title="User talk:Modernist">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z-Then_there's_this" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:09, 1 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z-Then_there's_this"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z-Then_there's_this"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z"></span>oooh, nice find! Will incorporate and tks. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:28, 1 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:28:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z"></span>Also mentioned in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.ie/books?id=SO6_wIkq2z8C&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161&dq=Mademoiselle+Rivi%C3%A8re+and+Monsieur+Bertin++1975&source=bl&ots=dj4fW2UJx8&sig=JQiEro0QwTOlw_B5-2O984o-k5w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fvbVVMzPOMnY7AadjoDgDQ&ved=0CFYQ6AEwDQ#v=onepage&q=Mademoiselle%20Rivi%C3%A8re%20and%20Monsieur%20Bertin%20%201975&f=false">Marcel Broodthaers: Strategy and Dialogue</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:28:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:28, 7 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:28:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:28:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z"></span>Sir <a href="/wiki/Gerald_Kelly" title="Gerald Kelly">Gerald Kelly</a> did several portraits of Ralph Vaughn Williams that follow the Bertin portrait closely (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/ralph-vaughan-williams-18721958-215862">one example</a>). I can't find a RS that says he was influenced, but <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.npg.org.uk/assets/files/pdf/learning/NPG_20C_portraits.pdf">here's one</a> that notes the resemblance. <a href="/wiki/User:Ewulp" title="User:Ewulp">Ewulp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ewulp" title="User talk:Ewulp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:49, 2 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z"></span>Should be mentioned but might be difficult to keep an image. We are where we are; txs. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:28, 6 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z"></span>As the Picasso is pd, I think we might get away with a Gerald Kelly FU. Looking for more context, will add tonight. One Stein might be enough, if we have to choose... <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:18, 7 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z"></span>Result looks very good! <a href="/wiki/User:Ewulp" title="User:Ewulp">Ewulp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ewulp" title="User talk:Ewulp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 13 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Picasso" data-mw-thread-id="h-Picasso-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Picasso-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z"></span>Picasso<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Picasso-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Picasso"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z-Picasso"></span>The Gertrude Stein is within copyright, so we might either have to loose it or come up with a rational. I'm out of practise with that, and would hate to loose it, if any volunteers. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z-Picasso" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:21, 7 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z-Picasso"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z-Picasso"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z"></span>At the moment they both appear to be PD, the Picasso is pd in the US...<a href="/wiki/User:Modernist" title="User:Modernist">Modernist</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Modernist" title="User talk:Modernist">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:37, 7 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z"></span>I think maybe one portrait of Stein rather than two, in any case? <a href="/wiki/User:Kafka_Liz" title="User:Kafka Liz">Kafka Liz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kafka_Liz" title="User talk:Kafka Liz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:26, 7 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-08T03:44:00.000Z-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z"></span>We need an article on Picasso's <i><a href="/w/index.php?title=Portrait_of_Gertrude_Stein_(Picasso)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Portrait of Gertrude Stein (Picasso) (page does not exist)">Portrait of Gertrude Stein</a></i>. The genisis and friendship is a little more than fascinating. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-02-08T03:44:00.000Z-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:44, 8 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-08T03:44:00.000Z-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-02-08T03:44:00.000Z-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lede" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lede-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lede-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z"></span>Lede<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lede-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Lede"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z-Lede"></span>I tried to adjust the lede to better capture the state of Ingres' career c. 1830. He was in demand for his portraits, but I think it's misleading to ascribe his success and renown to portraits rather than history painting. In <i>Portraits by Ingres: Image of an Epoch</i> Shelton writes: "Few artists undergo the kind of dramatic career transformation that Ingres experienced at the end of 1824. Within the span of a few short weeks in November, he went from being one of the most maligned artists of his generation to one of the most celebrated. The catalyst for this sudden reversal of fortune was the appearance at the Salon of <i>The Vow of Louis XIII</i> ... At the close of the Salon Ingres received the officer's cross of the Legion of Honor from the hands of King Charles X himself; six months later he captured the ultimate prize—a seat in the all-powerful Académie des Beaux-Arts." (p. 273) A "flood of prestigious commissions ... suddenly came his way" including <i>The Martyrdom of Saint Symphorian</i>, "a history painting for the Maison du Roi", and frescoes for the church of Saint-Sulpice, (p. 275); a little later came <i>The Apotheosis of Homer</i>. So for the while at least he was enjoying a great success as a history painter. Christopher Riopelle writes: "The enormous success of the <i>Vow</i> marked Ingres's triumphant return to his homeland and his assumption of the leadership of the classical school ... He had painted what his contemporaries immediately recognized as his first masterpiece". (p. 246) <a href="/wiki/User:Ewulp" title="User:Ewulp">Ewulp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ewulp" title="User talk:Ewulp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z-Lede" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:05, 8 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z-Lede"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z-Lede"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z"></span>Yes. The edits are very much improvements; but beg; should we go into romantic vs necoclassism in the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:12, 13 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z"></span>It's probably not needed in the lede. The line or two of explanation in the Background section is useful but I wouldn't think the idea needs to be developed very much in this article. <a href="/wiki/User:Ewulp" title="User:Ewulp">Ewulp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ewulp" title="User talk:Ewulp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 13 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-14T02:56:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z"></span>Thats sounds about right. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Ceoil-2015-02-14T02:56:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 14 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ceoil-2015-02-14T02:56:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ceoil-2015-02-14T02:56:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:4.8em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:4.8em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Finnusertop-2016-06-10T14:24:00.000Z-Lede"></span> All images in this article should use upright, not px, per <a href="/wiki/MOS:IMGSIZE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:IMGSIZE">MOS:IMGSIZE</a>. <span style="font-family: serif; letter-spacing: 0.1em">– <a href="/wiki/User:Finnusertop" title="User:Finnusertop">Finnusertop</a></span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Finnusertop" title="User talk:Finnusertop">talk</a> ⋅ <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Finnusertop" title="Special:Contributions/Finnusertop">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin#c-Finnusertop-2016-06-10T14:24:00.000Z-Lede" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:24, 10 June 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Finnusertop-2016-06-10T14:24:00.000Z-Lede"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Finnusertop-2016-06-10T14:24:00.000Z-Lede"></span></p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&oldid=1204859283">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&oldid=1204859283</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_featured_articles" title="Category:Wikipedia featured articles">Wikipedia featured articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Featured_articles_that_have_appeared_on_the_main_page" title="Category:Featured articles that have appeared on the main page">Featured articles that have appeared on the main page</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Featured_articles_that_have_appeared_on_the_main_page_once" title="Category:Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once">Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:FA-Class_visual_arts_articles" title="Category:FA-Class visual arts articles">FA-Class visual arts articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Visual_arts_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Visual arts articles">WikiProject Visual arts articles</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden category: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Talk_pages_with_reference_errors" title="Category:Talk pages with reference errors">Talk pages with reference errors</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 8 February 2024, at 05:41<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use">Terms of Use</a> and <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy policy">Privacy Policy</a>. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/">Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.</a>, a non-profit organization.</li> </ul> <ul id="footer-places"> <li id="footer-places-privacy"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy">Privacy policy</a></li> <li id="footer-places-about"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-disclaimers"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer">Disclaimers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-contact"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us">Contact Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-wm-codeofconduct"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Universal_Code_of_Conduct">Code of Conduct</a></li> <li id="footer-places-developers"><a href="https://developer.wikimedia.org">Developers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-statslink"><a href="https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org">Statistics</a></li> <li id="footer-places-cookiestatement"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Cookie_statement">Cookie statement</a></li> <li id="footer-places-mobileview"><a href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Portrait_of_Monsieur_Bertin&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile" class="noprint stopMobileRedirectToggle">Mobile view</a></li> </ul> <ul id="footer-icons" class="noprint"> <li id="footer-copyrightico"><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/static/images/footer/wikimedia-button.svg" width="84" height="29" alt="Wikimedia Foundation" loading="lazy"></a></li> <li id="footer-poweredbyico"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/w/resources/assets/poweredby_mediawiki.svg" alt="Powered by MediaWiki" width="88" height="31" loading="lazy"></a></li> </ul> </footer> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-header-container vector-sticky-header-container"> <div id="vector-sticky-header" class="vector-sticky-header"> <div class="vector-sticky-header-start"> <div class="vector-sticky-header-icon-start vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" aria-hidden="true"> <button class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-sticky-header-search-toggle" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="ui.vector-sticky-search-form.icon"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-search mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-search"></span> <span>Search</span> </button> </div> <div role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box"> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="vector-sticky-search-form" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia"> <span class="cdx-text-input__icon cdx-text-input__start-icon"></span> </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-header-context-bar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-sticky-header-toc" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-sticky-header-toc vector-sticky-header-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-sticky-header-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-sticky-header-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-sticky-header-toc-label" for="vector-sticky-header-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-sticky-header-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div class="vector-sticky-header-context-bar-primary" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Portrait of Monsieur Bertin</span></div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-header-end" aria-hidden="true"> <div class="vector-sticky-header-icons"> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-talk-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="talk-sticky-header"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-speechBubbles mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-speechBubbles"></span> <span></span> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-subject-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="subject-sticky-header"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-article mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-article"></span> <span></span> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-history-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="history-sticky-header"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-history mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-wikimedia-history"></span> <span></span> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only mw-watchlink" id="ca-watchstar-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="watch-sticky-header"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-star mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-wikimedia-star"></span> <span></span> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-edit-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="wikitext-edit-sticky-header"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-wikiText mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-wikimedia-wikiText"></span> <span></span> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-ve-edit-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="ve-edit-sticky-header"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-edit mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-wikimedia-edit"></span> <span></span> </a> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only" id="ca-viewsource-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="ve-edit-protected-sticky-header"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-editLock mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-wikimedia-editLock"></span> <span></span> </a> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-header-buttons"> <a href="#" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--action-progressive" id="ca-addsection-sticky-header" tabindex="-1" data-event-name="addsection-sticky-header"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-speechBubbleAdd-progressive mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-speechBubbleAdd-progressive"></span> <span>Add topic</span> </a> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-header-icon-end"> <div class="vector-user-links"> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-settings" id="p-dock-bottom"> <ul></ul> </div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-56d5b746c6-4472g","wgBackendResponseTime":392,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Comment-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z","author":"Truthkeeper88","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z-Comment","replies":[{"timestamp":"2011-06-21T20:15:00.000Z","author":"Modernist","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Modernist-2011-06-21T20:15:00.000Z-Truthkeeper88-2011-06-21T20:01:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Gallery-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z","author":"Kafka Liz","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:25:00.000Z-Gallery","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Inspiration_for_the_pose-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z","author":"Ewulp","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z-Inspiration_for_the_pose","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-01-17T11:00:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-01-17T11:00:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-01-17T02:06:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Then_there's_this-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z","author":"Modernist","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z-Then_there's_this","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-01T13:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-07T11:28:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:28:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z","author":"Ewulp","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-01T18:28:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-02T05:49:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-06T02:28:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z","author":"Ewulp","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T13:18:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Picasso-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z-Picasso","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z","author":"Modernist","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-07T11:21:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z","author":"Kafka Liz","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z-Modernist-2015-02-07T11:37:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-08T03:44:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-02-08T03:44:00.000Z-Kafka_Liz-2015-02-07T13:26:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Lede-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z","author":"Ewulp","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z-Lede","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-08T09:05:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z","author":"Ewulp","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z-Ceoil-2015-02-13T01:12:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-02-14T02:56:00.000Z","author":"Ceoil","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Ceoil-2015-02-14T02:56:00.000Z-Ewulp-2015-02-13T02:56:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2016-06-10T14:24:00.000Z","author":"Finnusertop","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Finnusertop-2016-06-10T14:24:00.000Z-Lede","replies":[]}]}],"wgPageParseReport":{"discussiontools":{"limitreport-timeusage":"0.015"},"limitreport":{"cputime":"0.193","walltime":"0.277","ppvisitednodes":{"value":411,"limit":1000000},"postexpandincludesize":{"value":14309,"limit":2097152},"templateargumentsize":{"value":648,"limit":2097152},"expansiondepth":{"value":14,"limit":100},"expensivefunctioncount":{"value":5,"limit":500},"unstrip-depth":{"value":1,"limit":20},"unstrip-size":{"value":17161,"limit":5000000},"entityaccesscount":{"value":0,"limit":400},"timingprofile":["100.00% 222.381 1 -total"," 48.05% 106.847 1 Template:WikiProject_banner_shell"," 24.53% 54.548 1 Template:Talk_reflist"," 23.37% 51.972 1 Template:WikiProject_Visual_arts"," 22.31% 49.605 1 Template:Reflist"," 19.38% 43.100 1 Template:ArticleHistory"," 10.99% 24.431 2 Template:Broken_ref"," 1.54% 3.434 1 Template:Outdent"," 0.92% 2.043 1 Template:Broken_ref/lang"," 0.69% 1.527 1 Template:Main_other"]},"scribunto":{"limitreport-timeusage":{"value":"0.097","limit":"10.000"},"limitreport-memusage":{"value":2338562,"limit":52428800}},"cachereport":{"origin":"mw-web.codfw.main-56d5b746c6-4472g","timestamp":"20250121073529","ttl":864000,"transientcontent":true}}});});</script> </body> </html>