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href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=history"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j"><span>What links here</span></a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k"><span>Related changes</span></a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" 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data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">< <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">Wikipedia:Templates for discussion</a></bdi> | <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log">Log</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="boilerplate metadata vfd" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 0 auto; padding: 0 1px 0 0; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; font-size:10px"> <table width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <th width="50%" align="left"><span style="color:gray"><</span> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_8" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 January 8">January 8</a> </th> <th width="50%" align="right"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_10" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 January 10">January 10</a> <span style="color:gray">></span> </th></tr></tbody></table></div> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="January_9" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_9-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_9-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"></span>January 9<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_9-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: January 9"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax-January_9-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax-January_9-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax (page does not exist)">Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax-January_9-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-13T02:59:00.000Z-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax"></span>The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the discussion was <b>speedy delete</b> per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:T2" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:T2">T2</a> — <a href="/wiki/User:JJMC89" title="User:JJMC89">JJMC89</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJMC89" title="User talk:JJMC89">T</a><b>·</b><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJMC89" title="Special:Contributions/JJMC89">C</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-JJMC89-2019-01-13T02:59:00.000Z-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:59, 13 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-13T02:59:00.000Z-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JJMC89-2019-01-13T02:59:00.000Z-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax"></span> </p> <ul><li><span id="Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax"></span>Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template talk:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3ANoPureVandalismBlatantHoax&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Template%3ANoPureVandalismBlatantHoax">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax/">subpages</a>)</span></li></ul> <p>Invalid template. There is no policy that outright allows for protection from deletion; even if a page isn't vandalism or a blatant hoax, it may still be eligible for deletion under other criteria. <a href="/wiki/User:Cymru.lass" title="User:Cymru.lass">cymru.lass</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cymru.lass" title="User talk:Cymru.lass">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass" title="Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:27, 9 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z-Template:NoPureVandalismBlatantHoax"></span> </p> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b> agree. Very weird to have a template that promises a page can't be deleted. Would be ignored in any discussion, which would occur on the merits of the article anyway. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tom_(LT)" title="User:Tom (LT)">Tom (LT)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tom_(LT)" title="User talk:Tom (LT)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:23, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GenuineArt-2019-01-11T15:46:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b> agree with nom. Invalid template. <a href="/wiki/User:GenuineArt" title="User:GenuineArt">GenuineArt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GenuineArt" title="User talk:GenuineArt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-GenuineArt-2019-01-11T15:46:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:46, 11 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GenuineArt-2019-01-11T15:46:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GenuineArt-2019-01-11T15:46:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nigej-2019-01-12T21:11:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b> agree. <a href="/wiki/User:Nigej" title="User:Nigej">Nigej</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nigej" title="User talk:Nigej">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Nigej-2019-01-12T21:11:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 12 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nigej-2019-01-12T21:11:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nigej-2019-01-12T21:11:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pppery-2019-01-12T23:56:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span>Speedy delete</b> T2. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">{{3x|p}}ery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Pppery-2019-01-12T23:56:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:56, 12 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pppery-2019-01-12T23:56:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pppery-2019-01-12T23:56:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:27:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><i>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Template:DoNotDelete" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:DoNotDelete-January_9-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template:DoNotDelete-January_9-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"></span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:DoNotDelete&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:DoNotDelete (page does not exist)">Template:DoNotDelete</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template:DoNotDelete-January_9-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Template:DoNotDelete"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-13T03:00:00.000Z-Template:DoNotDelete"></span>The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the discussion was <b>speedy delete</b> per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:T2" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:T2">T2</a> — <a href="/wiki/User:JJMC89" title="User:JJMC89">JJMC89</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJMC89" title="User talk:JJMC89">T</a><b>·</b><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJMC89" title="Special:Contributions/JJMC89">C</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-JJMC89-2019-01-13T03:00:00.000Z-Template:DoNotDelete" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:00, 13 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-13T03:00:00.000Z-Template:DoNotDelete"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JJMC89-2019-01-13T03:00:00.000Z-Template:DoNotDelete"></span> </p> <ul><li><span id="Template:DoNotDelete" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:DoNotDelete&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:DoNotDelete (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z-Template:DoNotDelete"></span>Template:DoNotDelete</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:DoNotDelete&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template talk:DoNotDelete (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:DoNotDelete" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:DoNotDelete">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3ADoNotDelete&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Template%3ADoNotDelete">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Template:DoNotDelete/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Template:DoNotDelete/">subpages</a>)</span></li></ul> <p>Not a valid template for use. There is no policy that allows protection of a page from deletion. <a href="/wiki/User:Cymru.lass" title="User:Cymru.lass">cymru.lass</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cymru.lass" title="User talk:Cymru.lass">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass" title="Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z-Template:DoNotDelete" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 9 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z-Template:DoNotDelete"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z-Template:DoNotDelete"></span> </p> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b> agree, as above. Very weird to have a template that states a page can't be deleted. Would be ignored in any discussion, which would occur on the merits of the article anyway. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tom_(LT)" title="User:Tom (LT)">Tom (LT)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tom_(LT)" title="User talk:Tom (LT)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:23, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GenuineArt-2019-01-11T15:46:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b> Makes no sense. <a href="/wiki/User:GenuineArt" title="User:GenuineArt">GenuineArt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GenuineArt" title="User talk:GenuineArt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-GenuineArt-2019-01-11T15:46:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:46, 11 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GenuineArt-2019-01-11T15:46:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GenuineArt-2019-01-11T15:46:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nigej-2019-01-12T21:11:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b> Plainly ridiculous. <a href="/wiki/User:Nigej" title="User:Nigej">Nigej</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nigej" title="User talk:Nigej">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Nigej-2019-01-12T21:11:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 12 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nigej-2019-01-12T21:11:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nigej-2019-01-12T21:11:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:25:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><i>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Template:Politics_of_Departments" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:Politics_of_Departments-January_9-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template:Politics_of_Departments-January_9-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z"></span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Politics_of_Departments&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Politics of Departments (page does not exist)">Template:Politics of Departments</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template:Politics_of_Departments-January_9-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Template:Politics of Departments"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:23:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"></span>The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the discussion was <b>delete</b>. — <a href="/wiki/User:JJMC89" title="User:JJMC89">JJMC89</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJMC89" title="User talk:JJMC89">T</a><b>·</b><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJMC89" title="Special:Contributions/JJMC89">C</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:23:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:23, 17 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:23:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:23:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"></span> </p> <ul><li><span id="Template:Politics_of_Departments" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Politics_of_Departments&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Politics of Departments (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"></span>Template:Politics of Departments</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Politics_of_Departments&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template talk:Politics of Departments (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:Politics_of_Departments" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:Politics of Departments">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3APolitics+of+Departments&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Template%3APolitics+of+Departments">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Politics_of_Departments/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Politics of Departments/">subpages</a>)</span></li></ul> <p>Not enough content to justify a navbox <a href="/wiki/User:Cymru.lass" title="User:Cymru.lass">cymru.lass</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cymru.lass" title="User talk:Cymru.lass">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass" title="Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 9 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"></span> </p> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:24:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b> per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOT">WP:NOT</a>. I'm unclear what this template does as it only links to a single article of election results. We are not a repository of election results. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tom_(LT)" title="User:Tom (LT)">Tom (LT)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tom_(LT)" title="User talk:Tom (LT)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:24:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:24, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:24:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:24:00.000Z-Cymru.lass-2019-01-09T21:23:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Yaffles1981" title="User:Yaffles1981"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yaffles1981-2019-01-10T09:09:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"></span>User: Yaffles1981</a> it was my intention to develop the politics pages for each department. Happy to take guidance but pages on other countries especially UK and US much more detailed and i didn't want to clutter the main department pages. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Yaffles1981" title="User:Yaffles1981">Yaffles1981</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yaffles1981#top" title="User talk:Yaffles1981">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Yaffles1981" title="Special:Contributions/Yaffles1981">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Yaffles1981-2019-01-10T09:09:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:09, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yaffles1981-2019-01-10T09:09:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yaffles1981-2019-01-10T09:09:00.000Z-Template:Politics_of_Departments"></span> </p> <dl><dd><ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-10T17:51:00.000Z-Yaffles1981-2019-01-10T09:09:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Yaffles1981" title="User:Yaffles1981">Yaffles1981</a>:</span> It would be better to create this page as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:USERSPACEDRAFT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:USERSPACEDRAFT">userspace draft</a> at something like <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Yaffles1981/Politics_of_Departments_of_France&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Yaffles1981/Politics of Departments of France (page does not exist)">User:Yaffles1981/Politics of Departments of France</a> since so many of the pages are redlinks. <a href="/wiki/User:Cymru.lass" title="User:Cymru.lass">cymru.lass</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cymru.lass" title="User talk:Cymru.lass">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass" title="Special:Contributions/Cymru.lass">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-10T17:51:00.000Z-Yaffles1981-2019-01-10T09:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-10T17:51:00.000Z-Yaffles1981-2019-01-10T09:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cymru.lass-2019-01-10T17:51:00.000Z-Yaffles1981-2019-01-10T09:09:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd><i>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Template:European_nobility" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:European_nobility-January_9-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template:European_nobility-January_9-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Template:European_nobility" title="Template:European nobility">Template:European nobility</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template:European_nobility-January_9-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Template:European nobility"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:24:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"></span>The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the discussion was <b>keep</b>. — <a href="/wiki/User:JJMC89" title="User:JJMC89">JJMC89</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJMC89" title="User talk:JJMC89">T</a><b>·</b><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJMC89" title="Special:Contributions/JJMC89">C</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:24:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:24, 17 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:24:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:24:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"></span> </p> <ul><li><span id="Template:European_nobility" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/wiki/Template:European_nobility" title="Template:European nobility"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chicbyaccident-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"></span>Template:European nobility</a> (<a href="/wiki/Template_talk:European_nobility" title="Template talk:European nobility">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:European_nobility" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:European nobility">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3AEuropean+nobility&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Template%3AEuropean+nobility">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Template:European_nobility/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Template:European nobility/">subpages</a>)</span></li> <li><span id="Template:Nobility_by_nation" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/wiki/Template:Nobility_by_nation" title="Template:Nobility by nation">Template:Nobility by nation</a> (<a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Nobility_by_nation" title="Template talk:Nobility by nation">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:Nobility_by_nation" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:Nobility by nation">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3ANobility+by+nation&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Template%3ANobility+by+nation">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Nobility_by_nation/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Nobility by nation/">subpages</a>)</span></li></ul> <p><b>Propose merging</b> <a href="/wiki/Template:European_nobility" title="Template:European nobility">Template:European nobility</a> with <a href="/wiki/Template:Nobility_by_nation" title="Template:Nobility by nation">Template:Nobility by nation</a>.<br/> Redundancy. Overlap. <a href="/wiki/User:Chicbyaccident" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Chicbyaccident">Chicbyaccident</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chicbyaccident" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Chicbyaccident">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Chicbyaccident-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:47, 29 December 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chicbyaccident-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chicbyaccident-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"></span> </p> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-FactStraight-2018-12-29T19:34:00.000Z-Chicbyaccident-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"></span>Oppose</b> nobility templates should be organized by nation because the variations in usage, titulature, spelling, rank, entitlement, legalities, associated <a href="/wiki/Style_(manner_of_address)" class="mw-redirect" title="Style (manner of address)">styles</a> and <a href="/wiki/Honorific" title="Honorific">honorifics</a> are enormous even within the same country (for example, contrast English vs. Scottish use of <a href="/wiki/Lord" title="Lord">Lord</a> in the UK; Flemish vs. French use of <i><a href="/wiki/Jonkheer" title="Jonkheer">Jonkheer</a></i> vs. <i><a href="/wiki/%C3%89cuyer" title="Écuyer">Écuyer</a></i> in Belgium; Austrian customs on use of <a href="/wiki/Baron" title="Baron">Baron</a> vs <i><a href="/wiki/Freiherr" title="Freiherr">Freiherr</a></i>, etc.), and are compounded by conflicting usages between nations in Europe (<i>Prinz</i> and <i>Fürst</i> have very different meanings in German, yet are both translated as "prince" in English; a "countess" may be the wife of a <a href="/wiki/Count" title="Count">count</a> or of an <a href="/wiki/Earl" title="Earl">earl</a> but the latter terms are not interchangeable, whereas the wife of a marquis may be a <i>marquise</i> or a <i>marchioness</i> but the latter terms are not interchangeable; the precedence accorded to those historically entitled to the style of <i><a href="/wiki/Serene_Highness" title="Serene Highness">Serene Highness</a></i> is reversed in Germanic vs. Latin countries; the English language uses different terms, <a href="/wiki/Heir_apparent" title="Heir apparent">heir apparent</a> vs. <a href="/wiki/Heir_presumptive" title="Heir presumptive">heir presumptive</a> to distinguish different types of crown princes, but French makes no such distinction; etc.) Trying to use a single template to capture meaningful differences from one continent to another and across hundreds of cultures is an invitation to confusion and error. Let's not do it. <a href="/wiki/User:FactStraight" title="User:FactStraight">FactStraight</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:FactStraight" title="User talk:FactStraight">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-FactStraight-2018-12-29T19:34:00.000Z-Chicbyaccident-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:34, 29 December 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-FactStraight-2018-12-29T19:34:00.000Z-Chicbyaccident-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-FactStraight-2018-12-29T19:34:00.000Z-Chicbyaccident-2018-12-29T18:47:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;"><b><span style="font-size:91%;"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_process#Relisting_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Deletion process"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"></span>Relisted</a> to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.</span></b></span><br/> <small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Galobtter" title="User:Galobtter">Galobtter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Galobtter" title="User talk:Galobtter">pingó mió</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:03, 9 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z-Template:European_nobility"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z"></span>Keep</b> In my mind, distinct functions. European monarchies are linked geographically, culturally, and by numerous historical interactions. The template in addition holds information about past monarchies. I think having a distinct template has navigational value and therefore should be kept. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tom_(LT)" title="User:Tom (LT)">Tom (LT)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tom_(LT)" title="User talk:Tom (LT)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:23, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SteveStrummer-2019-01-10T05:21:00.000Z-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z"></span>Keep</b> This template is more useful to its topics for its focus. Other more concise templates would serve most articles better too. The full "Nobility by nation" template is a space hog that I think is only suited to articles of a general and worldwide scope. <a href="/wiki/User:SteveStrummer" title="User:SteveStrummer">SteveStrummer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SteveStrummer" title="User talk:SteveStrummer">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-SteveStrummer-2019-01-10T05:21:00.000Z-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:21, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SteveStrummer-2019-01-10T05:21:00.000Z-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SteveStrummer-2019-01-10T05:21:00.000Z-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:03:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><i>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categories)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori-January_9-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"><span id="Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_.28categories.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori-January_9-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categories)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia by federal subject (categories) (page does not exist)">Template:Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia by federal subject (categories)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori-January_9-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Template:Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia by federal subject (categories)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Galobtter-2019-01-18T07:29:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"></span>The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the discussion was <b>no consensus</b>. <a href="/wiki/User:Galobtter" title="User:Galobtter">Galobtter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Galobtter" title="User talk:Galobtter">pingó mió</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Galobtter-2019-01-18T07:29:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:29, 18 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Galobtter-2019-01-18T07:29:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Galobtter-2019-01-18T07:29:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"></span> </p> <ul><li><span id="Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categories)" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categories)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia by federal subject (categories) (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"></span>Template:Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia by federal subject (categories)</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categories)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template talk:Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia by federal subject (categories) (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categories)" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia by federal subject (categories)">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3ALists+of+monuments+and+memorials+in+Russia+by+federal+subject+%28categories%29&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Template%3ALists+of+monuments+and+memorials+in+Russia+by+federal+subject+%28categories%29">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categories)/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia by federal subject (categories)/">subpages</a>)</span></li></ul> <p><b>delete</b>, the template just contains redlinks, moreover it does not contain any monuments and memorials as the name seems to suggest. Moreover a template is not a list. <a href="/wiki/User:Marcocapelle" title="User:Marcocapelle">Marcocapelle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Marcocapelle" title="User talk:Marcocapelle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:06, 31 December 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"></span> </p> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-01T07:17:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span>Keep.</b> Hello everyone and happy New Year! This template was created to simplify the management of the specified categories. As you can see the "Lists of monuments and memorials in Russia" topic isn’t developed for enwiki so far. You can delete this template now, but its keeping will help for the further development of the topic. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Leonid_Dobrov" title="User:Leonid Dobrov">Leonid Dobrov</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Leonid_Dobrov" title="User talk:Leonid Dobrov">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-01T07:17:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:17, 1 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-01T07:17:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-01T07:17:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-01T07:46:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span>Userify</b> this recently created template serves a useful purpose for Leonid, so it might be useful for him to move it back to user space. In mainspace it seems to just duplicate categories and IMO should be deleted. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tom_(LT)" title="User:Tom (LT)">Tom (LT)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tom_(LT)" title="User talk:Tom (LT)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-01T07:46:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:46, 1 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-01T07:46:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-01T07:46:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-01T15:17:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span>Question.</b> I found that this method of navigation is quite popular on Wikimedia Commons (<a class="external text" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_region">an example</a>). So why wouldn't we consider the method as a good practice for enwiki? <a href="/wiki/User:Leonid_Dobrov" title="User:Leonid Dobrov">Leonid Dobrov</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Leonid_Dobrov" title="User talk:Leonid Dobrov">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-01T15:17:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 1 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-01T15:17:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-01T15:17:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nyttend-2019-01-05T00:09:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span>Keep</b>. Seems useful for navigating among categories that contain lists. Why get confused by the template name? It's just intended to link <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Moscow&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Lists of monuments and memorials in Moscow (page does not exist)">Category:Lists of monuments and memorials in Moscow</a>, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Samara_Oblast&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Lists of monuments and memorials in Samara Oblast (page does not exist)">Category:Lists of monuments and memorials in Samara Oblast</a>, and several dozen that haven't yet been created. It works the same as the template atop <a href="/wiki/Category:Cities_in_Pennsylvania" title="Category:Cities in Pennsylvania">Category:Cities in Pennsylvania</a>, whose code is:<blockquote><p>{{United States topic|prefix=:Category:Cities in|navbar=plain|exclude-wdc=y|exclude-ter=y|exclude-isl=y|state=expanded}}</p></blockquote>The only reason to delete this template, as I see it, is if the existing categories end up being deleted on "we shouldn't have this" grounds; then we can G8 this template because it's totally dependent on deleted pages. <a href="/wiki/User:Nyttend" title="User:Nyttend">Nyttend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nyttend" title="User talk:Nyttend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Nyttend-2019-01-05T00:09:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:09, 5 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nyttend-2019-01-05T00:09:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nyttend-2019-01-05T00:09:00.000Z-Marcocapelle-2018-12-31T11:06:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nyttend-2019-01-08T00:02:00.000Z-Nyttend-2019-01-05T00:09:00.000Z"></span>PS, it's easy to imagine creating an analogous template for the US. It could be called <a href="/wiki/Template:Lists_of_National_Register_of_Historic_Places_in_the_United_States_by_state_(categories)" title="Template:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in the United States by state (categories)">Template:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in the United States by state (categories)</a>, it could be placed atop pages like <a href="/wiki/Category:Lists_of_National_Register_of_Historic_Places_in_Mississippi" title="Category:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in Mississippi">Category:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in Mississippi</a>, <a href="/wiki/Category:Lists_of_National_Register_of_Historic_Places_in_California" title="Category:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in California">Category:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in California</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Category:Lists_of_National_Register_of_Historic_Places_in_Wyoming" title="Category:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in Wyoming">Category:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in Wyoming</a>, and it would be used for navigating among list-containing categories. It's a perfectly reasonable idea for a template, and since this template has two bluelinked list-categories so far and the potential for more, why get rid of it? <a href="/wiki/User:Nyttend" title="User:Nyttend">Nyttend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nyttend" title="User talk:Nyttend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Nyttend-2019-01-08T00:02:00.000Z-Nyttend-2019-01-05T00:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:02, 8 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nyttend-2019-01-08T00:02:00.000Z-Nyttend-2019-01-05T00:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nyttend-2019-01-08T00:02:00.000Z-Nyttend-2019-01-05T00:09:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-12T09:12:00.000Z-Nyttend-2019-01-08T00:02:00.000Z"></span>Thank you for your instructions. In some cases I find that using of the “country topic” templates is a smarter solution than copying of full bulk of code into a binding template (e.g. <a href="/wiki/Template:Environment_of_the_United_States_by_political_division" title="Template:Environment of the United States by political division">Template:Environment of the United States by political division</a>). I implemented the technique when creating <a href="/wiki/Template:Lists_of_National_Register_of_Historic_Places_in_the_United_States_by_state_(categories)" title="Template:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in the United States by state (categories)">Template:Lists of National Register of Historic Places in the United States by state (categories)</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Leonid_Dobrov" title="User:Leonid Dobrov">Leonid Dobrov</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Leonid_Dobrov" title="User talk:Leonid Dobrov">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-12T09:12:00.000Z-Nyttend-2019-01-08T00:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:12, 12 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-12T09:12:00.000Z-Nyttend-2019-01-08T00:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Leonid_Dobrov-2019-01-12T09:12:00.000Z-Nyttend-2019-01-08T00:02:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;"><b><span style="font-size:91%;"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_process#Relisting_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Deletion process"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:02:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"></span>Relisted</a> to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.</span></b></span><br/> <small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Galobtter" title="User:Galobtter">Galobtter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Galobtter" title="User talk:Galobtter">pingó mió</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:02:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:02, 9 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:02:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Galobtter-2019-01-09T13:02:00.000Z-Template:Lists_of_monuments_and_memorials_in_Russia_by_federal_subject_(categori"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><i>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data" data-mw-thread-id="h-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data-January_9-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"><span id="Module:Common_abbreviations_.28meta.29.2Fdata"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data-January_9-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Module:Common abbreviations (meta)/data (page does not exist)">Module:Common abbreviations (meta)/data</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data-January_9-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Module:Common abbreviations (meta)/data"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Primefac-2019-01-29T04:46:00.000Z-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data"></span>The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the discussion was <b>delete</b>. <a href="/wiki/User:Primefac" title="User:Primefac">Primefac</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Primefac" title="User talk:Primefac">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Primefac-2019-01-29T04:46:00.000Z-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:46, 29 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Primefac-2019-01-29T04:46:00.000Z-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Primefac-2019-01-29T04:46:00.000Z-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data"></span> </p> <ul><li><span id="Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Module:Common abbreviations (meta)/data (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data"></span>Module:Common abbreviations (meta)/data</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=Module_talk:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Module talk:Common abbreviations (meta)/data (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data" title="Special:PageHistory/Module:Common abbreviations (meta)/data">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FModule%3ACommon+abbreviations+%28meta%29%2Fdata&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Module%3ACommon+abbreviations+%28meta%29%2Fdata">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Module:Common abbreviations (meta)/data/">subpages</a>)</span></li> <li><span id="Template:Common_abbreviations_(meta)" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Common_abbreviations_(meta)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Common abbreviations (meta) (page does not exist)">Template:Common abbreviations (meta)</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Common_abbreviations_(meta)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template talk:Common abbreviations (meta) (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:Common_abbreviations_(meta)" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:Common abbreviations (meta)">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3ACommon+abbreviations+%28meta%29&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Template%3ACommon+abbreviations+%28meta%29">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Common abbreviations (meta)/">subpages</a>)</span></li></ul> <p>Only used 15 times and does not provide a lot of options. <span class="sig-22804074" style="white-space:nowrap;">– <a href="/wiki/User:BrandonXLF" title="User:BrandonXLF"><span style="color:blue;">Brandon</span><span style="color:green;">XLF</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BrandonXLF" title="User talk:BrandonXLF"><span style="font-size:0.8em;color:blue;">(t@lk)</span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:13, 9 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z-Module:Common_abbreviations_(meta)/data"></span> </p> <ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Izkala&direction=next&oldid=673655794#Abbreviation_templates"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uanfala-2019-01-09T10:44:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span>Discussion that led to the creation of the template</a>. – <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uanfala" title="User talk:Uanfala">Uanfala (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Uanfala-2019-01-09T10:44:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:44, 9 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uanfala-2019-01-09T10:44:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uanfala-2019-01-09T10:44:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span>Delete or rename</b> this template defeats its purpose by being extremely long to type, negating the point of having a template automatically insert a common abbreviation's full form. I don't think this is useful and it adds to clutter and complexity of the editing experience. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tom_(LT)" title="User:Tom (LT)">Tom (LT)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tom_(LT)" title="User talk:Tom (LT)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:23, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-14T10:09:00.000Z-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z"></span>The name is not meant to be typed. <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:A&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:A (page does not exist)">A</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> exists as a redirect for that purpose. As for "the editing experience", why would you be editing other people's comments? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-14T10:09:00.000Z-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:09, 14 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-14T10:09:00.000Z-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-14T10:09:00.000Z-Tom_(LT)-2019-01-10T01:23:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-14T10:09:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span>Keep</b>. More options can be added, if desired. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-14T10:09:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:09, 14 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-14T10:09:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-14T10:09:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NYKevin-2019-01-22T04:28:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b>: Wrapping <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WTF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WTF">jargon</a> in <code><abbr></code> tags is only slightly better than using it without. Use piped links and write in regular English instead. --<i><b><a href="/wiki/User:NYKevin" title="User:NYKevin"><span style="color: Red;">N</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:NYKevin" title="User talk:NYKevin"><span style="color:green;">Y</span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/NYKevin" title="Special:Contributions/NYKevin"><span style="color:blue">Kevin</span></a></b></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-NYKevin-2019-01-22T04:28:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:28, 22 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NYKevin-2019-01-22T04:28:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NYKevin-2019-01-22T04:28:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-27T22:08:00.000Z-NYKevin-2019-01-22T04:28:00.000Z"></span>This for use on talk pages, not in articles. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-27T22:08:00.000Z-NYKevin-2019-01-22T04:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 27 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-27T22:08:00.000Z-NYKevin-2019-01-22T04:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-27T22:08:00.000Z-NYKevin-2019-01-22T04:28:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tavix-2019-01-22T14:14:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span>Delete</b> per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2018_June_16#Template:A" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 June 16">Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2018 June 16#Template:A</a>. This hasn't been used much, but even when it has, it has been used incorrectly. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tavix" title="User:Tavix"> <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia"><b>T</b>avix</span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tavix" title="User talk:Tavix"><span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Tavix-2019-01-22T14:14:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:14, 22 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tavix-2019-01-22T14:14:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tavix-2019-01-22T14:14:00.000Z-BrandonXLF-2019-01-09T02:13:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-27T22:07:00.000Z-Tavix-2019-01-22T14:14:00.000Z"></span>As pointed out in the discussion to which you link, the claim that the template is used incorrectly is without evidence. That discussion closed as "keep". <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-27T22:07:00.000Z-Tavix-2019-01-22T14:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 27 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-27T22:07:00.000Z-Tavix-2019-01-22T14:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pigsonthewing-2019-01-27T22:07:00.000Z-Tavix-2019-01-22T14:14:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><i>The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Template:Hover_title" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:Hover_title-January_9-2019-01-17T05:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template:Hover_title-January_9-2019-01-17T05:26:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Template:Hover_title" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Hover title">Template:Hover title</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template:Hover_title-January_9-2019-01-17T05:26:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Template:Hover title"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="boilerplate tfd vfd tfd-closed" style="background-color: #e3f9df; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:26:00.000Z-Template:Hover_title"></span>The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">talk page</a> or in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review" title="Wikipedia:Deletion review">deletion review</a>).</i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the discussion was <b>relisted</b> on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_17#Template:Hover_title" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 January 17">2019 January 17</a>. — <a href="/wiki/User:JJMC89" title="User:JJMC89">JJMC89</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JJMC89" title="User talk:JJMC89">T</a><b>·</b><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/JJMC89" title="Special:Contributions/JJMC89">C</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2019_January_9#c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:26:00.000Z-Template:Hover_title" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:26, 17 January 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:26:00.000Z-Template:Hover_title"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JJMC89-2019-01-17T05:26:00.000Z-Template:Hover_title"></span> </p> <ul><li><span id="Template:Hover_title" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/wiki/Template:Hover_title" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Hover title">Template:Hover_title</a> (<a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Hover_title" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:Hover title">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:Hover_title" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:Hover title">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3AHover_title&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&page=Template%3AHover_title">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Hover_title/" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Template:Hover title/">subpages</a>)</span></li> <li><span id="Template:H:swl" class="plainlinks nourlexpansion 1x"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:H:swl&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:H:swl (page does not exist)">Template:H:swl</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:H:swl&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template talk:H:swl (page does not exist)">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Template:H:swl" title="Special:PageHistory/Template:H:swl">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatlinkshere%2FTemplate%3AH%3Aswl&limit=5000&hidelinks=1&hideredirs=1">transclusions</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" 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