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id="toc-Corsican_wikipedia_and_Yiddish_Wikipedia" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Corsican_wikipedia_and_Yiddish_Wikipedia"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Corsican wikipedia and Yiddish Wikipedia</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Corsican_wikipedia_and_Yiddish_Wikipedia-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Main_Page_intro_text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Main_Page_intro_text"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Main Page intro text</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-Main_Page_intro_text-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Main Page intro text subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Main_Page_intro_text-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-protest_against_software-patents" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#protest_against_software-patents"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.1</span> <span>protest against software-patents</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-protest_against_software-patents-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Elaboration_on_Sister_Projects" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Elaboration_on_Sister_Projects"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Elaboration on Sister Projects</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Elaboration_on_Sister_Projects-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Cutting_down_on_size_of_the_main_page" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Cutting_down_on_size_of_the_main_page"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Cutting down on size of the main page</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Cutting_down_on_size_of_the_main_page-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Cutting_down_on_size_of_RC" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Cutting_down_on_size_of_RC"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Cutting down on size of RC</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Cutting_down_on_size_of_RC-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Browse_by_Topic_update" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Browse_by_Topic_update"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Browse by Topic update</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Browse_by_Topic_update-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Main_Page_overall_layout" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Main_Page_overall_layout"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Main Page overall layout</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Main_Page_overall_layout-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Behind_the_news?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Behind_the_news?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Behind the news?</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Behind_the_news?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-American_centric_news" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#American_centric_news"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>American centric news</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-American_centric_news-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Main_page_displaying_differently_under_different_browsers" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Main_page_displaying_differently_under_different_browsers"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Main page displaying differently under different browsers</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Main_page_displaying_differently_under_different_browsers-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Online_Demonstration_against_software_patents" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Online_Demonstration_against_software_patents"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Online Demonstration against software patents</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Online_Demonstration_against_software_patents-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Borders" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Borders"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Borders</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Borders-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Too_much_space_for_featured_arts/news" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Too_much_space_for_featured_arts/news"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Too much space for featured arts/news</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Too_much_space_for_featured_arts/news-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-typos_in_main_page_links" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#typos_in_main_page_links"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>typos in main page links</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-typos_in_main_page_links-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wikipedia_in_other_languages" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wikipedia_in_other_languages"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">19</span> <span>Wikipedia in other languages</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Wikipedia_in_other_languages-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Titanium_Article" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Titanium_Article"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">20</span> <span>Titanium Article</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Titanium_Article-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Well_it_is_in_the_timeline_of_April,_2004" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Well_it_is_in_the_timeline_of_April,_2004"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">21</span> <span>Well it is in the timeline of April, 2004</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Well_it_is_in_the_timeline_of_April,_2004-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sister_projects_links_are_broken" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sister_projects_links_are_broken"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">22</span> <span>Sister projects links are broken</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Sister_projects_links_are_broken-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Recent_boldness" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Recent_boldness"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">23</span> <span>Recent boldness</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Recent_boldness-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Testimonial_from_anon." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Testimonial_from_anon."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">24</span> <span>Testimonial from anon.</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Testimonial_from_anon.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Webby_Awards" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Webby_Awards"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">25</span> <span>Webby Awards</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Webby_Awards-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Today's_featured_article_on_James_Bulger" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Today's_featured_article_on_James_Bulger"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">26</span> <span>Today's featured article on James Bulger</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Today's_featured_article_on_James_Bulger-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Protecting_featured_articles" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Protecting_featured_articles"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">27</span> <span>Protecting featured articles</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Protecting_featured_articles-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-SimpleWiki" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#SimpleWiki"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">28</span> <span>SimpleWiki</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-SimpleWiki-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Please_fix_"hugarian"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Please_fix_"hugarian""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">29</span> <span>Please fix "hugarian"</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Please_fix_"hugarian"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"behind"_the_news" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"behind"_the_news"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">30</span> <span>"behind" the news</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-"behind"_the_news-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-cyprus_referendum" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#cyprus_referendum"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">31</span> <span>cyprus referendum</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-cyprus_referendum-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Who's_that_in_the_news?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Who's_that_in_the_news?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">32</span> <span>Who's that in the news?</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Who's_that_in_the_news?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wrong_fact_in_selected_anniversaries" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wrong_fact_in_selected_anniversaries"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">33</span> <span>Wrong fact in selected anniversaries</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Wrong_fact_in_selected_anniversaries-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_reason_why_Wikipedia_is_slow?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_reason_why_Wikipedia_is_slow?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">34</span> <span>The reason why Wikipedia is slow?</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-The_reason_why_Wikipedia_is_slow?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Darfur" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Darfur"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">35</span> <span>Darfur</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Darfur-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-IE_6.0_problem?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#IE_6.0_problem?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">36</span> <span>IE 6.0 problem?</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-IE_6.0_problem?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " 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style="text-align:center;margin:0 auto 0.5em;max-width:50em;width:100%;width:-moz-available;width:-webkit-fill-available;width:stretch"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/Archive_15" title="Talk:Main Page/Archive 15">Archive 15</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/Archive_16" title="Talk:Main Page/Archive 16">Archive 16</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/Archive_17" title="Talk:Main Page/Archive 17">Archive 17</a></td><td><span style="font-size:115%;"><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Archive 18</a></span></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/Archive_19" title="Talk:Main Page/Archive 19">Archive 19</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/Archive_20" title="Talk:Main Page/Archive 20">Archive 20</a></td><td>→</td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/Archive_25" title="Talk:Main Page/Archive 25">Archive 25</a></td></tr></tbody></table> <p><br/> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Switch" data-mw-thread-id="h-Switch"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Switch"></span>Switch<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Switch"></span></h2></div> <p>I propose that we swap the DYK module and the news module. We've been staring at Condi Rice for days now, DYK, by nature, stays pretty fresh. The requirements of the current events policy mean few events qualify--the layout could be reversed as events like <a href="/wiki/11-M" class="mw-redirect" title="11-M">11-M</a> warrant. <a href="/wiki/User:Jengod" title="User:Jengod">jengod</a> 01:37, Apr 3, 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>I agree - it also looks <s>nicer</s> better, IMO. --<a href="/wiki/User:Maveric149" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Maveric149">mav</a> 06:00, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Poor Condi. If she's reading Wikipedia on a regular basis she'll be very sad.<a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence" title="User:Eloquence">--Eloquence</a><a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence/Comment_policy" title="User:Eloquence/Comment policy">*</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>She will get over it. --mav</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p>Since the featured article and In the news tend to take up more space than Did you know and Selected anniversaries, I think it creates good visual balance to have them sort of diagonally opposite each other. However, I find no explicit requirement that one of the Did you know items have an associated image. If we're going to put that section up top, I think we should make that a rule. --<a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Snow" title="User:Michael Snow">Michael Snow</a> 16:06, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p><p>I like having In the News at the top right -- whenever I open the front page to Wikipedia, I appreciate seeing what my fellow editors feel are the top stories. But I admit I see Jengod's point about needing new photos there to keep it fresh. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Llywrch" title="User:Llywrch">llywrch</a> 18:31, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Argh. Don't do this. Or maybe do this, but don't switch it back. I don't want to train my reflexes for clicking on current events every other week again. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tillwe" title="User:Tillwe">till we *)</a> 18:33, 3 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Keep the news at the top. It just makes sense. We just need to make sure it is current and of global importance, something like <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040404/ap_on_re_eu/spain_bombings&cid=518&ncid=716">Madrid Suspect Hunt Ends in Blast; 4 Dead</a>. The Korean train has had its time in the limelight. <a href="/wiki/User:Nricardo" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Nricardo">Brooklyn Nellie (Nricardo)</a> 02:04, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>For the record, I liked it better the other way. Anniversaries and Current Events are next to each other now, and it just doesn't look good to me. I prefer them placed diagonally from one another. <a href="/wiki/User:Kingturtle" title="User:Kingturtle">Kingturtle</a> 18:04, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Definitely move the news back to the top. Just be more active about changing the pictures. <a href="/wiki/User:Ezra_Wax" title="User:Ezra Wax">Ezra Wax</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd>I prefer the news at the bottom. News is not the main item on our menu, it should just be a byline. We're an encyclopedia, not a Slashdot/CNN RDF feed. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Silsor&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Silsor (page does not exist)">silsor</a> 19:19, Apr 4, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Nowadays, I sometimes go to Wikipedia to catch the latest big headlines, and having news at the bottom is really annoying. I strongly ask that news be moved back to the top. --<a href="/wiki/User:Lowellian" title="User:Lowellian">Lowellian</a> 01:29, Apr 6, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>I prefered the news at the bottom. New articles should be more of a feature than the news. <a href="/wiki/User:Angela" title="User:Angela">Angela</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Angela" title="User talk:Angela">.</a> 01:49, Apr 6, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>I think that the DYK and Anniversaries should be switched. DYK is an article related section and would look better under featured articles, while Anniversaries would go better with news. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Krik&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Krik (page does not exist)">Kirk</a> 09:10, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC) <dl><dd><i>I just looked at this option and it doesn't really work as things are now. Featured is really wide, and DYK (as it exists currently) is dwarfed by it. <a href="/wiki/User:Jengod" title="User:Jengod">jengod</a> 13:48, Apr 6, 2004 (UTC)</i></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>I really like the DYK at the top; it makes it us seem more like an encyclopedia and less like a news site. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Seth_Ilys" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Seth Ilys">Seth Ilys</a> 13:21, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Question_about_logging_in" data-mw-thread-id="h-Question_about_logging_in"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Question_about_logging_in"></span>Question about logging in<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Question_about_logging_in"></span></h2></div> <p>When I'm logged out, <a href="/wiki/Joshua_A._Norton" class="mw-redirect" title="Joshua A. Norton">Joshua A. Norton</a> is still the featured article. Why is this? - <a href="/wiki/User:Calmypal" title="User:Calmypal">Woo</a><a href="/wiki/User:Calmypal/Chess" title="User:Calmypal/Chess">d</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Calmypal" title="User talk:Calmypal">row</a> 02:20, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Because the anon cache had not been purged when you did so. See the top of this page. --<a href="/wiki/User:Maveric149" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Maveric149">mav</a> 04:58, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Why_the_Sudden_Change_of_Featured_Article?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Why_the_Sudden_Change_of_Featured_Article?"><span id="Why_the_Sudden_Change_of_Featured_Article.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Why_the_Sudden_Change_of_Featured_Article?"></span>Why the Sudden Change of Featured Article?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Why_the_Sudden_Change_of_Featured_Article?"></span></h2></div> <p>Just now some fountain pen or something was the featured article. Now it's the <a href="/wiki/Platypus" title="Platypus">platypus</a>. What's going on? --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:203.106.8.141&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:203.106.8.141 (page does not exist)">203.106.8.141</a> 14:32, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p><p>Why can't I edit the main page? Do I have to be some special somebody? --Eponymous </p> <dl><dd>To the above questions - the featured article is still Fountain Pen. Platypus was yesterday. Your browser is probably using an old cached copy. Hit shift-F5 to force it to load a fresh copy. To the 'Eponymous' question about not being able to edit the main page - it's one of about a dozen pages that are permanently protected from editing, simply to prevent rampant vandalism. <a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 17:09, Apr 5, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Poll:_in_the_news_or_did_you_know" data-mw-thread-id="h-Poll:_in_the_news_or_did_you_know-2004-05-02T21:33:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Poll:_in_the_news_or_did_you_know-2004-05-02T21:33:00.000Z"></span>Poll: in the news or did you know<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Poll:_in_the_news_or_did_you_know-2004-05-02T21:33:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Frazzydee-2004-05-02T21:33:00.000Z-Poll:_in_the_news_or_did_you_know"></span>I feel that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not">Wikipedia is not</a> a news report nor a Slashdot/CNN RDF feed. The version of the main page with the reversed layout is <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page&oldid=3076580">here</a>. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Silsor&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Silsor (page does not exist)">silsor</a> 07:43, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC) </p><p><b>"In the news" on top</b> </p> <ol><li><a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 06:49, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence" title="User:Eloquence">Eloquence</a><a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence/CP" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Eloquence/CP">*</a> 07:50, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC) (changed my mind after it was live for a while - having them next to anniversaries confuses my brain's timekeeping functionality)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:172" title="User:172">172</a> 07:57, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Nricardo" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Nricardo">Brooklyn Nellie (Nricardo)</a> 10:45, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC) "Did you know" seems like pretty trivial stuff. C'mon, pokemon? I'm not saying we become CNN, but Wikipedia should be seen as encyclopedic <i>and</i> current. If it's in the global news, then it likely deserves an article. Today's news is tomorrow's history.</li> <li>People often want to use an encyclopedia to see the background to the news: this is a good way to drive traffic to articles of current interest. -- <a href="/wiki/User:The_Anome" title="User:The Anome">The Anome</a> 10:48, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Elf" title="User:Elf">Elf</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Elf" title="User talk:Elf">Talk</a> 15:23, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC) With mixed feelings. I agree w/silsor's comment but also w/ wanting to being seen as current. However, along with that, I've thought for a while that the heading should be "Behind the news" or "Background for the news"; "In the news" feels like we'll click a link and read the news, which isn't so.</li> <li>Agree with the Anome. <a href="/wiki/User:RadicalBender" title="User:RadicalBender">R<small>ADICAL</small>B<small>ENDER</small></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RadicalBender" title="User talk:RadicalBender"><small>★</small></a> 15:30, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li>Having seen it both ways, I prefer the news at the top, where I can see it in my browser when I open the page. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Llywrch" title="User:Llywrch">llywrch</a> 17:45, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li>Agreeing with Llywrch, but first of all: decide and then don't change the main page layout for the next time -- <a href="/wiki/User:Tillwe" title="User:Tillwe">till we *)</a> 21:59, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li>To repeat what I said earlier, nowadays, I sometimes go to Wikipedia to catch the latest big headlines, and having news at the bottom is really annoying. --<a href="/wiki/User:Lowellian" title="User:Lowellian">Lowellian</a> 22:01, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Bensaccount" title="User:Bensaccount">Bensaccount</a> 22:03, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Danny" title="User:Danny">Danny</a> 22:06, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li>Artistically, it needs to be there. Historic anniversaries and ITN should be diagnolly opposed. <a href="/wiki/User:Kingturtle" title="User:Kingturtle">Kingturtle</a> 01:03, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li>Nice to be able to cross ref news instantly, which is unique to wikipedia<a href="/wiki/User:Dominick" title="User:Dominick">Dominick</a> 10:32, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Dori" title="User:Dori">Dori</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dori" title="User talk:Dori">Talk</a> 18:15, Apr 8, 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Arwel_Parry" title="User:Arwel Parry">Arwel</a> 23:37, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 00:48, 2004 Apr 9 (UTC) <i>Behind the news</i> might be a good title. Agree that this is not a news feed site. (on the other hand, once you realize you can improve the news as you read it, this starts to replaces other news feed sites as the first and last to visit...)</li></ol> <p><b>"Did you know" on top</b> </p> <ol><li><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Silsor&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Silsor (page does not exist)">silsor</a> 06:48, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Angela" title="User:Angela">Angela</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Mark" title="User:Mark">Mark</a> 06:57, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Maveric149" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Maveric149">mav</a> 07:26, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC) (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_is_not" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not">Wikipedia is not</a> a news report, thus we should not emphasize that too much - a link to <a href="/wiki/Current_events" class="mw-redirect" title="Current events">current events</a> is already in the sidebar of every page.</li> <li><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Krik&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Krik (page does not exist)">Krik</a> - on top by default, but there should be some <a href="/wiki/Special:Preferences" title="Special:Preferences">preferences</a> for this kind of thing. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Krik&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Krik (page does not exist)">Kirk</a> 10:59, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)~</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Seth_Ilys" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Seth Ilys">Seth Ilys</a> 11:55, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Snow" title="User:Michael Snow">Michael Snow</a> 16:12, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC) I don't feel strongly, but this is my preference. Also, I think we should make it a requirement that one of the "Did you know" items have an associated image.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Jengod" title="User:Jengod">jengod</a> 18:25, Apr 7, 2004 (UTC) what snow said. specifically the top one if ask me</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Bevo" title="User:Bevo">Bevo</a> 18:31, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Itai" title="User:Itai">Itai</a> - Partially symbolically, because it is the errors of the past that brought about the mayhem of the present, and partly for convenience's sake, as I find it much less disconcerting to read about people already dead than about those in the process of being killed.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Frazzydee" title="User:Frazzydee">Frazzydee</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page/Archive_18#c-Frazzydee-2004-05-02T21:33:00.000Z-Poll:_in_the_news_or_did_you_know" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 2 May 2004 (UTC)</a>: It was a tough decision. I agree with Kirk though- there should be a preference for this.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Frazzydee-2004-05-02T21:33:00.000Z-Poll:_in_the_news_or_did_you_know"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Frazzydee-2004-05-02T21:33:00.000Z-Poll:_in_the_news_or_did_you_know"></span></li></ol> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Corsican_wikipedia_and_Yiddish_Wikipedia" data-mw-thread-id="h-Corsican_wikipedia_and_Yiddish_Wikipedia"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Corsican_wikipedia_and_Yiddish_Wikipedia"></span>Corsican wikipedia and Yiddish Wikipedia<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Corsican_wikipedia_and_Yiddish_Wikipedia"></span></h2></div> <p>Moved to <a href="/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Wikipedialang&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="MediaWiki talk:Wikipedialang (page does not exist)">MediaWiki talk:Wikipedialang</a>. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Main_Page_intro_text" data-mw-thread-id="h-Main_Page_intro_text"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Main_Page_intro_text"></span>Main Page intro text<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Main_Page_intro_text"></span></h2></div> <p>Two things I'd like: </p> <ul><li>to link "many languages" directly to the "other languages" achor at the bottom of the page.</li> <li>to add an extra sentence at the top: "or visit one of our <a href="#Sister_Projects">sister projects</a>," and perhaps to add a fourth tiny link along the rhs., to draw more attention to those projects. [1]</li></ul> <p>[1] When I first came to wikipedia, it was many weeks before I realized wikibooks or wikiquote existed, and then only via VfD comments like "transwiki to wikiquote". when I came to take a look about a year ago, I had no time for WP, but would have had some for wikibooks (I was working on a couple books then, and in that mindset). </p><p>Thoughts? I'll wait a day before implementing the first idea, but it seems the right thing to do. The second is more drastic; I'll wait for feedback. <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 13:44, 2004 Apr 9 (UTC) </p><p>The first change I support - for as long as wikipedia.org redirects to en, special attention to such matters is required. Could you provide an example text for the second change? (Nicely done, I have no objection, but it's important to provide a solid first paragraph.) -- <a href="/wiki/User:Itai" title="User:Itai">Itai</a> 14:10, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p><p>I don't think it's a good idea. More text means more likely people will skip over it. It's important that only the most important text be there. The projects are already listed, and I don't think we can do more to advertize them. There is a ton of info on wikipedia, and it is likely that you won't be aware of it without spending some significant amount of time here. That's an inevitability IMO. <a href="/wiki/User:Dori" title="User:Dori">Dori</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dori" title="User talk:Dori">Talk</a> 14:58, Apr 9, 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Current text:</dd></dl> <table cellspacing="3"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td width="80%" bgcolor="white"> <p><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Welcome,_newcomers" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers">Welcome</a></b> to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia" title="Wikipedia">Wikipedia</a>! We are building an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights" title="Wikipedia:Copyrights">open-content</a> encyclopedia in many languages. We started in January 2001 and are now working on 6,914,960 <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_is_an_article" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:What is an article">articles</a> in the English version. Join us! Visit the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_Portal" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Community Portal">Community Portal</a></b> or try out the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox" title="Wikipedia:Sandbox">sandbox</a> to find out how <i>you</i> can edit any article right now. </p> </td> <td width="20%" style="font-size:80%;" bgcolor="white"> <div align="right"> <p><a href="#Browse_Wikipedia_by_topic">Browse by topic</a><br/> <a href="#Wikipedia_in_other_languages">Other languages</a><br/> <a href="/w/index.php?title=Main_Page_(table_free)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Main Page (table free) (page does not exist)">Table-free main page</a><br/> <a href="/w/index.php?title=Main_Page_(text_only)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Main Page (text only) (page does not exist)">Text-only main page</a> </p> </div> </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd>Proposed change:</dd></dl> <table cellspacing="3"> <tbody><tr valign="top"> <td width="84%" bgcolor="white"> <p><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Welcome,_newcomers" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Welcome, newcomers">Welcome</a></b> to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia" title="Wikipedia">Wikipedia</a>! We are building an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights" title="Wikipedia:Copyrights">open-content</a> encyclopedia in <a href="#Wikipedia_in_other_languages">many languages</a>, started in <a href="/wiki/2001" title="2001"><span style="color:Navy;">2001</span></a>. We are working on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Statistics" title="Wikipedia:Statistics"><span style="color:Navy;">6,914,960</span></a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_is_an_article" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:What is an article">articles</a> in the English version. Join us <b>-</b> <a href="#Browse_Wikipedia_by_topic"><b>browse</b></a>, visit our <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_Portal" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Community Portal">Community Portal</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox" title="Wikipedia:Sandbox">sandbox</a> to learn how to edit articles yourself, or visit one of our <a href="#Sister_Projects">sister projects</a>. </p> </td> <td width="16%" style="font-size:80%;" bgcolor="white"> <div align="right"> <p><a href="#Browse_Wikipedia_by_topic">Browse by topic</a><br/> <a href="#Wikipedia_in_other_languages">Other languages</a><br/> <a href="/w/index.php?title=Main_Page_(text_only)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Main Page (text only) (page does not exist)">Text-only Main</a><br/> <a href="#Sister_projects">Sister projects</a> </p> </div> </td></tr></tbody></table> <p><br/> </p> <dl><dd>I want to keep the word "building" in the intro, and I prefer "in the English version" to "in English alone". As for the "Sister Projects" link, I can see the point, but I oppose unless we get rid of one of the other links. We have to avoid cluttering the intro space. I would fully support ditching the table-free Main Page link, that can certainly be linked elsewhere.--<a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence" title="User:Eloquence">Eloquence</a><a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence/CP" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Eloquence/CP">*</a> 17:33, Apr 10, 2004 (UTC) <dl><dd>Very well. Implemented, with these amendments.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="protest_against_software-patents" data-mw-thread-id="h-protest_against_software-patents-Main_Page_intro_text"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-protest_against_software-patents-Main_Page_intro_text"></span>protest against software-patents<span data-mw-comment-end="h-protest_against_software-patents-Main_Page_intro_text"></span></h3></div> <p>the german wikipedia has made an red box with a protest against software-patents in europe on there <a class="external text" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptseite">main page</a>. i think this is a very importaint thing for our digital rights and free sofware. more information about this topic: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.ffii.org">[1]</a>. thanks for reading this --<a class="external text" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:marti7D3">marti7D3</a> </p> <dl><dd>Full ACK! This website and most software will be illegal in Europe if software patents see the light of day in the EU! -- <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:195.158.147.135&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:195.158.147.135 (page does not exist)">195.158.147.135</a> 09:49, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Elaboration_on_Sister_Projects" data-mw-thread-id="h-Elaboration_on_Sister_Projects"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Elaboration_on_Sister_Projects"></span>Elaboration on Sister Projects<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Elaboration_on_Sister_Projects"></span></h2></div> <ul><li>They're already at the bottom of the page; no loss to the scroll-averse to add some detail.</li> <li>If adding detail, it may be worth giving them their own section (rather than sharing the yellow-backed section with the other-lang versions of WP, which is rather confusing).</li> <li>A short 2-sentence para for each, including basic stats and a description, would be appropriate. A ~1k thumbnail logo might be appropriate for a major project like wikibooks.</li></ul> <p>More to come,<a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 23:53, 2004 Apr 9 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cutting_down_on_size_of_the_main_page" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cutting_down_on_size_of_the_main_page"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cutting_down_on_size_of_the_main_page"></span>Cutting down on size of the main page<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cutting_down_on_size_of_the_main_page"></span></h2></div> <p>Right now the Main Page is ~100k. Can we cut that down? It apparently gets >1M hits a month, so that's a significant chunk of bw, even if caching helps relieve server load. Thoughts: </p> <ul><li>avoid having title tags that just repeat the full URL of external links</li> <li>replace the classes "internal" and "external" with one- or two-letter class names. considering how often they're used throughout WP, that should also provide a quick 1% drop in server traffic.</li> <li>reorganize things so that you don't have to have every href start with "/wiki/" (again, general WP-wide benefit).</li></ul> <p>... <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> </p> <dl><dd>I'm not sure I'm following your argument, Sj. I just did a "Save Page" on the Main page, & the resulting file was a few bytes short of 14K; perhaps a bit bloated in comparison with Google's Main Page, but better than some graphics-intense pages I've visited. Even adding the two pictures (each a shade under 4KB), I can't make the Main Page come anywhere near 100KB. Are we talking about the same page: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org">http://en.wikipedia.org</a> ? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Llywrch" title="User:Llywrch">llywrch</a> 17:21, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Interesting. for me it's 44k of html, 18k of main-page images (4 pics, not two!), 7k of javascript and [12k for the logo & 4k of css] (the latter two, at least, would probably be cached on the user's machine). Saving as "html only" instead of saving the whole page cuts it down to 36k (using Win/IE6) -- odd, eh? 36k of html is still quite a lot.<a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 20:46, 2004 Apr 10 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Taking another look at what I did, I see I missed two images, & forgot about the logo -- adding them brings the total to 34K. However, I see no trace of javascript in what my browser sees. (Mozilla 1.0; an old version, yes, but I haven't seen a need to upgrade.) Could the javascript be something that IE6 adds? It wouldn't be the first time MS has bloated HTML code for reasons no one understands. (And I'm not gratuitously bashing a Microsoft product; I just know from experience MS software produces bloated HTML code.) -- <a href="/wiki/User:Llywrch" title="User:Llywrch">llywrch</a> 21:18, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I just saved with Netscape 7.0 and got 124k, including 10k in 2 .js files and 70k in images. (jpg:4 png:1 ico:1) Looking at those javascript files, it appears they are added by user preferences. --<a href="/wiki/User:Ssd" title="User:Ssd">ssd</a> 21:08, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cutting_down_on_size_of_RC" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cutting_down_on_size_of_RC"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cutting_down_on_size_of_RC"></span>Cutting down on size of RC<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cutting_down_on_size_of_RC"></span></h2></div> <p>You know it's annoying. you're chasing down vicious villian VIII and suddenly, RC won't load. on the third reload, it takes 20 seconds to respond. Thoughts: </p> <ul><li>[disclaimer: I don't know css!] find a way to stick the <code>width=12 height=12 border=0</code> associated w/ the image on every line, into a class description. <small>(<b>done</b> on <a class="external text" href="https://test.wikipedia.org">test</a>)</small></li> <li>use some form of spacing (transp gifs?) other than " " -- at 6B each and up to 6 per line, they make up ~5% of the content of the RC source I just looked at. <small>(<b>done</b> on <a class="external text" href="https://test.wikipedia.org">test</a>)</small></li> <li>As above for Main, reorg/rename so that you don't have to start every edit/rev/hist link with the string "/w/wiki.phtml?title" <small>(soon fixed by gzipping before sending? not quite.)</small></li> <li>rename the standard RC img ref so it's shorter than "/upload/Arr_.png" <small>(soon fixed by gzipping before sending)</small></li> <li>... <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 00:12, 2004 Apr 10 (UTC)</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Browse_by_Topic_update" data-mw-thread-id="h-Browse_by_Topic_update"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Browse_by_Topic_update"></span>Browse by Topic update<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Browse_by_Topic_update"></span></h2></div> <p>I'd like to make BbT look like this, using a div style="float:right". Are there usability reasons not to do this? General objections? <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 01:32, 2004 Apr 10 (UTC) </p> <pre>'''<font size=4>Browse Wikipedia by topic</font>'''<br> <div style="float:right; left:8px; top:0px; right:3px; bottom:3px;"><small> {{Wikipediacats}} </small></div> {{Wikipediatoc}} </pre> <p><br/> </p> <dl><dd>I really can't see any benefit to it. It just looks asymmetrical and confusing.--<a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence" title="User:Eloquence">Eloquence</a><a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence/CP" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Eloquence/CP">*</a> 17:30, Apr 10, 2004 (UTC) <dl><dd>Did you mean the odd way it was rendering before? I don't know why the first line was munged like that. The reason, in any case, is to separate the meta-notions of <i>other</i> categorizations from thd default topical one... and to better use the vertical space on the screen. <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 18:25, 2004 Apr 10 (UTC) <dl><dd>Looking again, after a few days, I agree. I'd love to find some way to make it symmtric... perhaps making the list of schemes long enough that it can be its own narrow table cell? Or finding a clever way to highlight a horizontal list, perhaps with alternating beckground colors for each item. <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 23:11, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Main_Page_overall_layout" data-mw-thread-id="h-Main_Page_overall_layout"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Main_Page_overall_layout"></span>Main Page overall layout<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Main_Page_overall_layout"></span></h2></div> <p>Final thought on the main page: it deserves to break the standard article format. The "title", "Main Page", both conveys little information (it is obviously a special page) and takes up 5+ square inches of very prominent screen real estate. This page should be rendered specially, and that space should be used to direct visitors to other major entry points for the site. <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 21:01, 2004 Apr 10 (UTC) </p><p>Specific ideas: </p> <ul><li>Direct users colorfully and concisely with a string of ultra-low-weight icons, or colored table cells containing links (perhaps with mouseover color a la Yahoo!).</li> <li>extract information like "About Wikipedia", "Copyright and Free Use", "Ongoing Projects", "In the Media", &c. and link those pages from here.</li> <li>Removing prominent "Main Page" links, since already on the main page, from sidebars/top/bottom. Replacing them with other useful link(s).</li> <li>Refactor sidebar links, so that <code>"Main / News(Current events) / About(Contact) WP"</code> is in the top section, then <code>Edit/Discuss/History/What links here/Rel changes/([un]watch)/move/([un]protect/delete)</code>, and finally <code>"RC / Popular pages(My watchlist) / (My contributions) / Special pages / Upload file / Donations"</code>. <ul><li>Note that an "about WP / Contact WP" link is made primary in the sidebar; it is a real gap in the current layout, and makes if feel, to me, most unprofessional. <span style="background-color:white">I want to be able to see the <b>front matter</b> of this 'pedia -- when and where and who and how, under what auspices, etc.</span> Is that so much to ask?</li> <li>Note that Delete/Protect are now only close to 'move', not to more common links like 'discuss'. Note also that discuss is just under edit; that a new 'popular pages' link is added in place of 'watchlist' for non-logged in users.</li></ul></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Behind_the_news?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Behind_the_news?"><span id="Behind_the_news.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Behind_the_news?"></span>Behind the news?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Behind_the_news?"></span></h2></div> <p>I didn't understand what "behind the news" meant until I saw the discussion on this page. How about changing it to "topics in the news" or "topical articles" or something like that? <a href="/wiki/User:Arvindn" title="User:Arvindn">Arvindn</a> 17:31, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Could you explain what you find difficult to understand about "Behind the news"? I personally prefer this phrase to "In the news"; regarding Mav's argument below that this is wrong, I disagree, as the headline "Featured article" does not mean that the text below it is the featured article. We provide background information about news items, so "Behind the nwes" seems like the most reasonable headline to me.--<a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence" title="User:Eloquence">Eloquence</a><a href="/wiki/User:Eloquence/CP" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Eloquence/CP">*</a> 17:37, Apr 12, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>I don't like it either. It is also wrong - news summaries are below the heading while the background is in the bolded articles. Besides, nothing was mentioned at the coordination page for that seciton (which is still named <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news_section_on_the_Main_Page" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page">Wikipedia:In the news section on the Main Page</a>). So I changed it back. --<a href="/wiki/User:Maveric149" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Maveric149">mav</a> 22:58, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>OK, I brought up the possible change again at that location. <a href="/wiki/User:Elf" title="User:Elf">Elf</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Elf" title="User talk:Elf">Talk</a> 04:22, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="American_centric_news" data-mw-thread-id="h-American_centric_news"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-American_centric_news"></span>American centric news<span data-mw-comment-end="h-American_centric_news"></span></h2></div> <p>Why does the front page of Wikipedia contain daily American-centric news? <a href="/wiki/User:Nichalp" title="User:Nichalp">Nichalp</a> 19:44, Apr 12, 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Because its mostly the American editors who add events? (If it were truly American-centric, you might have seen events like the snowstorm in the Eastern United States, while Oregon had record high temperates over the weekend.) I see that you hail from Bombay, India; please add any significant events you know of from your corner of the world to the <a href="/wiki/Current_Events" class="mw-redirect" title="Current Events">Current Events</a> page. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Llywrch" title="User:Llywrch">llywrch</a> 21:28, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Main_page_displaying_differently_under_different_browsers" data-mw-thread-id="h-Main_page_displaying_differently_under_different_browsers"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Main_page_displaying_differently_under_different_browsers"></span>Main page displaying differently under different browsers<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Main_page_displaying_differently_under_different_browsers"></span></h2></div> <p>I just noticed that under Mozilla 1.6 the top margin of the text (e.g. the gap between "Featured articles" and the box) is quite big. While under Internet Explorer 6.0 the titles are much closer to the top of the box. Yet the left and right hand margins appear to be normal for both browsers. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Popsracer" title="User:Popsracer">Popsracer</a> 11:18, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Online_Demonstration_against_software_patents" data-mw-thread-id="h-Online_Demonstration_against_software_patents"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Online_Demonstration_against_software_patents"></span>Online Demonstration against software patents<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Online_Demonstration_against_software_patents"></span></h2></div> <p>It's the first time that I write sth. here, thus please be patient with me. </p><p>I want to make you aware of a problem that might break the neck of Wikipedia.org as well as uncountable other projects: Software Patents. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://swpat.ffii.org/players/bolkestein/index.en.html">The Commission</a> and the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/europarl0309/cons0401/index.en.html">Council of Ministers</a> are <b>covertly</b> pushing for <b>unlimited</b> patentability of software, heavily lobbied by multinationals and patent lawyers. They are ignoring the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www3.europarl.eu.int/omk/omnsapir.so/pv2?PRG=CALDOC&FILE=20030924&LANGUE=EN&TPV=DEF&LASTCHAP=31&SDOCTA=2&TXTLST=2&Type_Doc=ANNEX&POS=1">democratically voted decision</a> of the European Parliament from 24 september 2003, which has the support of more than <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://petition.eurolinux.org/">300.000 citizens</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/ceapme0309/index.en.html">2.000.000 SMEs</a>, dozens of <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.researchineurope.org/policy/patentdirltr.htm">economists</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://swpat.ffii.org/papers/eubsa-swpat0202/komp0305/index.en.html">scientists</a>. </p><p>Thus, there is <b>right now</b> an <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://demo.ffii.org/online.php">online demonstration</a> as well as a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://demo.ffii.org/brussels.php">physical demo</a> in Brussels, <b>2004-April-14</b> (tomorrow). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://demo.ffii.org/">Please join!</a> </p> <dl><dd>I sincerely doubt we'll close the website - however, we'd be happy to put it on our ITN section on the main page. <a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 12:52, Apr 13, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>You don't have to close it. Nearly noone really closed his site. You can just put either a different first page <b>with a link to the real one</b> or put at least a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://demo.ffii.org/demobanners.php">banner</a> onto it, please. </p> <dl><dd>Please see <a class="external text" href="https://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2003-August/011479.html">Jimbo's response</a> to a request like this last August. Users can, however, add the message to their own user pages if they want to. See <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User:Tim_Starling&oldid=1350951">Tim Starling's user page</a> for example. <a href="/wiki/User:Angela" title="User:Angela">Angela</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Angela" title="User talk:Angela">.</a> 18:20, Apr 13, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I've <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Raul654/sandbox&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Raul654/sandbox (page does not exist)">written a draft</a> of ITN for tomorrow that includes the above. It's NPOV, so I don't think Jimbo would have any objections. <a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 18:29, Apr 13, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr/> <p>ERROR: There is an error on the main page. Passover does not begin today, it ends today. I would fix this myself but the page is protected. Thanks. </p> <hr/> <dl><dd><i>The United States bombed Libya in retaliation for Libyan sponsorship of terrorism against U.S. citizens.</i></dd></dl> <p>That's not neutral. Make it <i>alleged</i> instead. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident" title="User:Dissident">Dissident</a> 16:30, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>It's not alleged when they admit it (as they did in the Lockerbie incident). <a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 16:41, Apr 14, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Lockerbie was after the bombing, which was actually a retaliation for the <a href="/wiki/1986_Berlin_discotheque_bombing" class="mw-redirect" title="1986 Berlin discotheque bombing">1986 Berlin discotheque bombing</a> and there is the suspicion that <a href="/wiki/Gadhafi" class="mw-redirect" title="Gadhafi">Gadhafi</a> is simply admitting to acts just to start with a clean sheet. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident" title="User:Dissident">Dissident</a> 18:32, 14 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr/> <p>The "featured article" today is Labour Economics, but there is no link to it. The words "Labour economics" at the start of the article should be fixed on the main page (but not in the article itself) to link to the appropriate article. <a href="/wiki/User:Andrewlevine" title="User:Andrewlevine">Andrew Levine</a> 07:14, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Borders" data-mw-thread-id="h-Borders"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Borders"></span>Borders<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Borders"></span></h2></div> <p>When I swtiched from IE to firefox I noticed that the borders on the front page changed colour. I see that we don't specify a colour in the css, perhaps we should? I prefer the light grey that IE used, personally. What do you think? <a href="/wiki/User:Fabiform" title="User:Fabiform">fabiform</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabiform" title="User talk:Fabiform">talk</a> 03:51, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:Error mw:File/Thumb"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload?wpDestFile=Mainpage_in_firefox_black_borders.png" class="new" title="File:Mainpage in firefox black borders.png"><span class="mw-file-element mw-broken-media" data-width="200">File:Mainpage in firefox black borders.png</span></a><figcaption>Firefox</figcaption></figure> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:Error mw:File/Thumb"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload?wpDestFile=Mainpage_in_IE_gray_borders.png" class="new" title="File:Mainpage in IE gray borders.png"><span class="mw-file-element mw-broken-media" data-width="200">File:Mainpage in IE gray borders.png</span></a><figcaption>IE</figcaption></figure><p><br clear="all"/> </p><ul><li>I would prefer the border colors to be darker shades of the background colors, as they were before the page got redesigned. If no one minds, I can edit it that way. <a href="/w/index.php?title=File:Mainpage_colored_borders.png&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="File:Mainpage colored borders.png (page does not exist)">Mockup</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 23:58, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC) <ul><li>Comments? <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 18:00, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li> <li>Yes, please! I agree that same-color borders are distinctly nicer. <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 19:59, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC)</li></ul></li> <li>Er, rather, someone with administrator privileges can edit it that way. Change the "style" attributes for the cells to the following, in respective order:</li></ul> <pre> style="border:1px solid #ffa9a9;padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em;" style="border:1px solid #9598ff;padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em;" style="border:1px solid #ababab;padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em;" style="border:1px solid #ffc68c;padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em;" </pre> <dl><dd>- <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 21:05, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Done. (new colors for the 4th and NEW 5th sections) thanks for the impetus! <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 22:26, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Too_much_space_for_featured_arts/news" data-mw-thread-id="h-Too_much_space_for_featured_arts/news"><span id="Too_much_space_for_featured_arts.2Fnews"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Too_much_space_for_featured_arts/news"></span>Too much space for featured arts/news<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Too_much_space_for_featured_arts/news"></span></h2></div> <p>Can we try a way to see the list of topics higher up on the page? Rigth now there's way too much space dedicated to news and the featured article. Also who cares about anniversaries/ did you know/ ... they belong to the front page but underneath the topics list. If anything, make the searchbox more visible. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:192.245.119.190&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:192.245.119.190 (page does not exist)">192.245.119.190</a> </p> <dl><dd>A better idea would be to remove the index from the Main Page and add a link to <a href="/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Wikipediatoc&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="MediaWiki:Wikipediatoc (page does not exist)">Browse by topic</a> in the sidebar. This would work real well with the new default skin being developed at <a class="external free" href="https://test.wikipedia.org/">http://test.wikipedia.org/</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Maveric149" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Maveric149">mav</a> 07:42, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Personally, if I want information on a subject, I don't browse by topic -- I just search for it. However, News and Features change quite often, so when I open my browser I'm eager to see the difference. I wouldn't mind seeing "Browse by Topic" in the sidebar, since it seems more useful to have it always at hand, if you actually <i>do</i> use it. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:FriedMilk" title="User:FriedMilk">FriedMilk</a> 00:31, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="typos_in_main_page_links" data-mw-thread-id="h-typos_in_main_page_links"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-typos_in_main_page_links"></span>typos in main page links<span data-mw-comment-end="h-typos_in_main_page_links"></span></h2></div> <p>pages linked from the main page should be carefully screened for errors, if possible. typographical errors are common. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Badanedwa&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Badanedwa (page does not exist)">Badanedwa</a> 20:53, Apr 16, 2004 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikipedia_in_other_languages" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikipedia_in_other_languages"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikipedia_in_other_languages"></span>Wikipedia in other languages<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikipedia_in_other_languages"></span></h2></div> <p>Please add Maori - <a class="external free" href="https://mi.wikipedia.org/">http://mi.wikipedia.org/</a> </p> <ul><li>Done. <a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 23:10, Apr 16, 2004 (UTC) <ul><li>The criteria for main-page listing are under discussion; please see <a href="/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:Wikipedialang&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="MediaWiki talk:Wikipedialang (page does not exist)">MediaWiki talk:Wikipedialang</a> for more.</li></ul></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Titanium_Article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Titanium_Article"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Titanium_Article"></span>Titanium Article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Titanium_Article"></span></h2></div> <p>There is something in the link on the Main Page to the article on Titanium that locks up my Browser while retrieving JPG and GIF files. <a href="/wiki/User:K7jeb" title="User:K7jeb">K7jeb</a> 03:19, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Well_it_is_in_the_timeline_of_April,_2004" data-mw-thread-id="h-Well_it_is_in_the_timeline_of_April,_2004"><span id="Well_it_is_in_the_timeline_of_April.2C_2004"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Well_it_is_in_the_timeline_of_April,_2004"></span>Well it is in the timeline of April, 2004<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Well_it_is_in_the_timeline_of_April,_2004"></span></h2></div> <p>I think in the deaths (<a href="/wiki/April_6" title="April 6">April 6</a>, <a href="/wiki/2004" title="2004">2004</a>) I think you should add <a href="/wiki/Marjorie_Pay_Hinckley" class="mw-redirect" title="Marjorie Pay Hinckley">Marjorie Pay Hinckley</a>, Wife of President <a href="/wiki/Gordon_B._Hinckley" title="Gordon B. Hinckley">Gordon B. Hinckley</a>, Passes Away on April 6, 2004. Just because so many people know her. I would be very happy if you did so. I'm sure other people would agree with me. I mean if you can put a long time caddy on it. I think it would be nice if you put a prophets wife in the timeline. </p><p>-Thanks </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sister_projects_links_are_broken" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sister_projects_links_are_broken"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sister_projects_links_are_broken"></span>Sister projects links are broken<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sister_projects_links_are_broken"></span></h2></div> <p>The "sister projects" links are broken. The anchor's title is "#Wikimedia_sister_projects" and the links point to "#Sister_Projects" and "#Sister_projects", both wrong. <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 21:30, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Gosh, you're fast! Fixed by the time I read this. I also updated the color of the 'by topic' section, for the benefit of your upcoming border-coloring update. <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 21:59, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Recent_boldness" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recent_boldness"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Recent_boldness"></span>Recent boldness<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Recent_boldness"></span></h2></div> <ul><li>Intro text has been updated; it's shorter and more informative, without removing wording El likes.</li> <li>Sister projects are now prominently linked; two new links on the main wikipedia page should translate to a measurable bump in traffic for meta, wiktionary, etc.</li> <li>Sister projects are now their own section; one line per project. <ul><li>9-11 link removed as per request on project-discussion page -- since some want a Wikimemorial link instead, and since the main page of sept11.wikipedia.org discussed its contended status in its opening paragraphs...</li> <li>anyone who wants is welcome to re-add the link (the table wikification is there, in an html comment).</li></ul></li> <li>Browse by topic now has an extra link (in the intro text) and a less-depressing background color. Still looking for a good way to highlight the 'browse by other schemas' section -- browsing the LOC/DDS schemas and the global timeline really bring home wikipedia's depth and breadth.</li> <li>Sister projects now have their own section/background color</li> <li>Sections are now bordered with a darker shade of their background, not with black. per Fredrik's suggestion above.</li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 21:59, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I waited several minutes for the problem to fix itself before I posted :P Anyway, I think a slightly darker green would look nicer for that box - #90e090 for example. <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 22:36, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Another suggestion: I think the green clashes with the blue and red a bit. It might look better if the yellow and green were switched. <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 23:08, 19 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Interesting... you're probably right. I'll wait a day or so for other feedback. I like having green for the topics - rather soothing - but just want to come back to it before figuring out how I feel. any other admin is welcome to switch the Topic/other-langs colors around. Trying a darker green now. <a href="/wiki/User:Sj" title="User:Sj">+sj</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sj" title="User talk:Sj">+</a> 23:26, 2004 Apr 19 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Good changes overall. A couple of issues about the intro text: <ul><li>We don't want too many links in the intro text. Its distracting and counterproductive. I suggest unlinking 2001 and number-of-articles.</li> <li>I don't like bolding the word browse. What's the need for using color for the number-of-articles link? Again, distracting. <a href="/wiki/User:Arvindn" title="User:Arvindn">Arvindn</a> 12:23, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Hmm, I prefer the grey borders to black or coloured borders, they're distracting IMO. <a href="/wiki/User:Fabiform" title="User:Fabiform">fabiform</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabiform" title="User talk:Fabiform">talk</a> 02:41, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I think Eloquence's change made them less appealing. <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 07:54, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Testimonial_from_anon." data-mw-thread-id="h-Testimonial_from_anon."><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Testimonial_from_anon."></span>Testimonial from anon.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Testimonial_from_anon."></span></h2></div> <p>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ </p><p>A wikipedia is an encylopedia whom anybody may edit at night or the day. </p><p>It is 'free' as a prisoner wants to be free. A prisoner endures in prison. He has no freedom to act as he wishes. But Wikipedia is free, not like in prison, it may edited any time at all. </p><p>It is perhaps also 'free' as in costing nothing... but that is only by chance. The telephone company can make you pay when you connect to the internet to edit wikipedia; it can make you pay much during the day, and maybe less at night. But you are free to choose a different telephone company. </p><p>Wikipedia is good because it is free. </p><p>There are wikipedias in many tongues. This wikipedia here is in english. But some wikipedias are in many other tongues. Tongues of a great many people, such as spanish and chinese, and tongues of only a few people. And even strange tongues such as esperanto are popular with many pages. </p><p>Editing wikipedia is also very easy. Each page has an 'edit' button. It is necessary only to press the button 'edit', and write new things, and press the button 'save'. </p><p>If you are not sure of your writing, only press 'discuss'. This makes you write in another 'discuss' page. People with good writing will write in the article page a good version of what you say. </p><p>The only bad thing in wikipedia is, no spell checker. You have to copy to Word and spell check and copy back to Wikipedia. Then you change and do it again. And again. And again... it is slow. There should be a 'spell' button when editing pages. </p><p>Thank you; translate this into good writing. Bless you. </p><p>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ </p><p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Webby_Awards" data-mw-thread-id="h-Webby_Awards"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Webby_Awards"></span>Webby Awards<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Webby_Awards"></span></h2></div> <p>-> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Webby_Awards" title="Wikipedia talk:Webby Awards">Wikipedia talk:Webby Awards</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Today's_featured_article_on_James_Bulger" data-mw-thread-id="h-Today's_featured_article_on_James_Bulger"><span id="Today.27s_featured_article_on_James_Bulger"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Today's_featured_article_on_James_Bulger"></span>Today's featured article on James Bulger<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Today's_featured_article_on_James_Bulger"></span></h2></div> <p>I'm concerned about today's featured article for the following reasons. It is an extremely hurtful subject for the Bulger family and while it is a matter of public record and belongs in the Wikipedia for that reason, it's also a matter of relatively recent private grief and therefore inherently hurtful. We need to show sensitivity in an area like this. I don't think that it should have been made a featured article without asking the Bulger family how they felt about that. Did anyone do that ? </p><p>Many newspapers have used it (and continue to use it) as a sales boosting technique, trampling on the Bulger family's feeling without any thought for them, and I would hate people to think that Wikipedia is using it in the same manner. Subjects of this sort need more care than the average choice for Featured Article and even at this late stage, I would prefer that it was withdrawn until permission has been given for such a prominent use by the victim's family. -- <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:198.5.187.24&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:198.5.187.24 (page does not exist)">198.5.187.24</a> (aka <a href="/wiki/User:Derek_Ross" title="User:Derek Ross">User:Derek Ross</a>) 14:21, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>You won't believe this for a moment I sat in a state of shock. I was absolutely numb to all sensations except the horror, grief and pain that struck me after reading the first two lines. Maybe I am a weak hearted guy but if my suggestion was worth anything please replace the featured article. <a href="/wiki/User:Ankur" title="User:Ankur">AY</a> 21:54, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>I'm not surprised, AY. You're not weak-hearted. Many people, including me, felt the same way at the time it happened (and whenever the subject comes up again). It <i>was</i> a horrifying incident. I think the subject is even less suitable for the main page featured article than the <a href="/wiki/Shock_site" title="Shock site">Shock site</a> article unless featured with the full consent of the family. Whoever chose this article showed extremely poor judgement. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Derek_Ross" title="User:Derek Ross">Derek Ross</a> 22:10, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Hi, I'm sorry you both found this choice of featured article distressing. We often link to distressing articles from the main page (in the new section) and several other featured articles on the main page have tackled unpleasant subjects. As far as I know, there's no policy to avoid linking to these articles once they have passed through the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates">Wikipedia:Featured article candidates</a> process. <a href="/wiki/User:Fabiform" title="User:Fabiform">fabiform</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabiform" title="User talk:Fabiform">talk</a> 02:28, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>Fabiform, I'm sorry that have you missed the point. It doesn't matter particularly whether I or others find the article distressing or unpleasant. What does matter is whether or not Wikipedia is seen as being prepared to take advantage of sensational events without regard to the feelings of the victims. Whatever your opinion as to the pleasantness or unpleasantness of previous featured articles, none of them could be seen as being callous and personally hurtful. This is the first one that I am aware of that could be seen that way. </p><p>I'm not looking for policy on the matter, merely the common courtesy that would make whoever chooses the next such Feature ask themselves "I wonder whether the mother of that child would be delighted to see us use this to encourage people to read the Wikipedia" and the sensitivity to answer with "Perhaps not, I'll choose something else". -- <a href="/wiki/User:Derek_Ross" title="User:Derek Ross">Derek Ross</a> 03:21, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Hi Derek. I didn't miss the point you were making. I think this article (which I've contributed to) is a good one; it deals with a sensitive subject carefully and doesn't sensationalise it. We link to articles on murders and killings from the front page in the news section. We link to our articles on less recent atrocities in the anniversaries section. All of these links are "adverts" for the contents of Wikipedia. I cannot claim to know what Denise Bulger would think of our featuring an article about her son's murder. The article does however link to her website which campaigned for longer sentences for the killers (who served 8 years in the end), so perhaps she would be just as likely to thank us for highlighting what she sees as an injustice? <a href="/wiki/User:Fabiform" title="User:Fabiform">fabiform</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabiform" title="User talk:Fabiform">talk</a> 03:50, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>Granted that the article is good, granted that it's not particularly sensational, granted that Mrs Bulger might well thank us for the article being featured, I still say that we shouldn't <i>assume</i> that she will. I think that in this type of case it would be courteous to ask. It's rather a different situation from recent news for which there is justification owing to its immediacy and widespread publication and different also from anniversary links which form a lower-key, more anonymous group. The Main Page Feature is <i>the</i> most prominent article on Wikipedia for the time that it is featured and I think that special care should be taken over choosing it, including contacting interested parties for their opinions where appropriate. We might still decide to run it in the face of adverse opinion but we should have a good reason for doing so. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Derek_Ross" title="User:Derek Ross">Derek Ross</a> 04:21, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>I don't think it's feasible to ask, or even desirable. We just featured this article for 24 hours on the front page, and I doubt James's mother happened to see it. Contacting her and asking her permission would perhaps cause her distress. And just think of the logistics... why are we just concentrating on James's mother's feelings? What about his other family members, and what about the family members of the murderers? What kind of precedent would we be setting? Would we have to ask all the relatives of the Madrid bombings victims if we wanted to feature that article (many people supported that article being granted featured status)?</dd></dl> <dl><dd>At what point in time does something change from being so recent that it's news and jusifiable, to no longer being news but too recent to talk about casually, and then to long enough ago that it's justifiable? The boys were released from detentiontwo years ago, is that recent enough to be news? The murder took place eleven years ago, is that long enough ago that we can talk about it dispassionatly now, or at least without being accused of feeding off it somehow? Just points to consider. <a href="/wiki/User:Fabiform" title="User:Fabiform">fabiform</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabiform" title="User talk:Fabiform">talk</a> 04:58, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Protecting_featured_articles" data-mw-thread-id="h-Protecting_featured_articles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Protecting_featured_articles"></span>Protecting featured articles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Protecting_featured_articles"></span></h2></div> <p>Could I suggest that as a matter of policy, articles which are placed on the main page as featured articles should be protected from editing while they are there? Main page articles are inevitably subjected to the kind of casual vandalism now afflicting <a href="/wiki/Greek_art" title="Greek art">Greek art</a>, which I wrote and thus feel protective of. Perhaps a <i>copy</i> of the article could be put at the main page while the real article is still available for editing elsewhere. <a href="/wiki/User:Adam_Carr" title="User:Adam Carr">Adam</a> 14:33, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>An alternate solution would be an option that a change (or perhaps only a change by an anonymous user) to an article would require approbation by an administrator. This could be implemented with the existing system by duplicating an article, protecting the main one, leaving a message on the main one that users edit the secondary article since the article is target for vandalism, having administrators copy over any valid changes done to the copy. <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 15:16, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>as i noted above, featured articles have plenty of typographical errors. this would prevent their removal.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>however, vandalism causes worse harm to the image and usefulness of wikipedia, and so adam carr's suggestion may be best. in any case, copyediting is needed prior to inclusion in the "featured articles" list; locking for the duration would likely combine well with such a policy. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Badanedwa&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Badanedwa (page does not exist)">Badanedwa</a> 18:31, Apr 22, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Yes, it seems that vandalism has increased much more than usual, with this new layout. I remember one of the article a couple of weeks after the new layout, it was just facing constant vandalism, I believe that we should implment what Adam was talking about. --<a href="/wiki/User:Saint-Paddy" title="User:Saint-Paddy">Saint-Paddy</a> 01:20, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I strongly oppose protection of these pages. The featured articles should be not only a demonstration of our best work, but a demonstration of Wikipedia's openness to editing. Locking them down through fear of vandalism overlooks two inportant points; firstly that Wikipedia is supposed to be editable by anyone, and secondly, that it is extremely easy to revert vandalism. <a href="/wiki/User:Angela" title="User:Angela">Angela</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Angela" title="User talk:Angela">.</a> 08:43, Apr 23, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="SimpleWiki" data-mw-thread-id="h-SimpleWiki"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-SimpleWiki"></span>SimpleWiki<span data-mw-comment-end="h-SimpleWiki"></span></h2></div> <p>Can we get SimpleWiki added as a link at the bottom of the main page? I'm sure we can attract a few more writers if people were aware of it. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Dwindrim&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Dwindrim (page does not exist)">Denni</a> 18:56, 2004 Apr 22 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Sure, just edit <a href="/wiki/Template:Wikipedialang" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Wikipedialang">Template:Wikipedialang</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Angela" title="User:Angela">Angela</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Angela" title="User talk:Angela">.</a></dd></dl> <p>22 April ¿2000? featured Explosions on Guadalajara, Mexico. Due to gasoline leak on sewer system. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Please_fix_"hugarian"" data-mw-thread-id="h-Please_fix_"hugarian""><span id="Please_fix_.22hugarian.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Please_fix_"hugarian""></span>Please fix "hugarian"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Please_fix_"hugarian""></span></h2></div> <p>In the languages block: Hugarian → Hu<u><b>n</b></u>garian. Thanks. --<a href="/wiki/User:Grin" title="User:Grin">grin</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Grin" title="User talk:Grin">✎</a> 06:45, 2004 Apr 23 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Done, it's from <a href="/wiki/Template:Wikipedialang" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Wikipedialang">Template:Wikipedialang</a>, and is not protected. <a href="/wiki/User:Fabiform" title="User:Fabiform">fabiform</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fabiform" title="User talk:Fabiform">talk</a> 07:50, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""behind"_the_news" data-mw-thread-id="h-"behind"_the_news"><span id=".22behind.22_the_news"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"behind"_the_news"></span>"behind" the news<span data-mw-comment-end="h-"behind"_the_news"></span></h2></div> <p>The Main Page "In the news" summary of the <a href="/wiki/Ryongchon_disaster" title="Ryongchon disaster">Ryongchon disaster</a> indicates that it was a collision while current news reports refute this. In my view this is an indication of the folly of trying to include breaking/developing news stories in Wikipedia, and especially on the main page. <a href="/wiki/User:Jgm" title="User:Jgm">Jgm</a> 20:17, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p><p>"Killing 54"???? This is absurdly precise. The latest I've heard, on the radio just now is that the Red Cross on the ground estimate "many hundreds of dead". And the BBC are reporting without qualification that the explosion was caused by electric power lines falling onto goods wagons loaded with dynamite. The thing as it stands is simply wrong, and makes Wikipedia look foolish. Please somebody fix it, or else remove it. <a href="/wiki/User:GrahamN" title="User:GrahamN">GrahamN</a> 22:05, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="cyprus_referendum" data-mw-thread-id="h-cyprus_referendum"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-cyprus_referendum"></span>cyprus referendum<span data-mw-comment-end="h-cyprus_referendum"></span></h2></div> <p>Shouldn't the Turkish vote also be mentioned? It was 65% in favor of Annan plan. <a href="/wiki/User:Ato" title="User:Ato">Ato</a> </p> <dl><dd>Probably not here, in the very brief "headline" format this page uses. There's plenty of space for figures in the referendum article when the results are published and, in any case, the "story" (in journalistic terms) here is the rejection by the Greek side. <a href="/wiki/User:Hajor" title="User:Hajor">–<i>Hajor</i></a> 20:19, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Who's_that_in_the_news?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Who's_that_in_the_news?"><span id="Who.27s_that_in_the_news.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Who's_that_in_the_news?"></span>Who's that in the news?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Who's_that_in_the_news?"></span></h2></div> <p>Moved to <a href="/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki_talk:In_the_news&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="MediaWiki talk:In the news (page does not exist)">MediaWiki talk:In the news</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wrong_fact_in_selected_anniversaries" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wrong_fact_in_selected_anniversaries"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wrong_fact_in_selected_anniversaries"></span>Wrong fact in selected anniversaries<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wrong_fact_in_selected_anniversaries"></span></h2></div> <p>1909 - Sultan of Turkey <a href="/wiki/Abdul_Hamid_II" title="Abdul Hamid II">Abdul Hamid II</a> was overthrown by his brother <a href="/wiki/Murat_V" class="mw-redirect" title="Murat V">Murat V</a>. </p><p>False. He was replaced by <a href="/wiki/Mehmet_V" class="mw-redirect" title="Mehmet V">Mehmet V</a>. Murat V was his brother and was deposed in <a href="/wiki/1876" title="1876">1876</a>. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_reason_why_Wikipedia_is_slow?" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_reason_why_Wikipedia_is_slow?"><span id="The_reason_why_Wikipedia_is_slow.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_reason_why_Wikipedia_is_slow?"></span>The reason why Wikipedia is slow?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_reason_why_Wikipedia_is_slow?"></span></h2></div> <p>On the main page it current says: </p><p><i>Recent press coverage (notably in Newsweek and Salon.com, and about our Webby Award nominations) has Wikipedia's servers suffering a bit of a Slashdot effect. Wikipedia may be loading slowly until the buzz wears off--please accept our apologies, and enjoy your visit! Thanks.</i> </p><p>Is this correct, I thought that any current slow down has more to to with the Squid server <i>Browne</i> being offline. Looking at the stats <a class="external autonumber" href="https://wikimedia.org/stats/live/index.org.wikimedia.all-squids.weekly.html">[2]</a> shows that <i>Coronelli</i> is serving twice as many requests as it normally does, but only because it is serving all the requests <i>Browne</i> would normally. Based on the total number of requests there does not seem to have been recent sudden increase in usage. Or is the message on the main page just way of putting a nice spin on the server problems. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Popsracer" title="User:Popsracer">Popsracer</a> 01:06, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>I don't think the press coverage is the cause of the problem, so I removed it. Press releases should stay at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Press_coverage" title="Wikipedia:Press coverage">Wikipedia:Press coverage</a> and speculation about server issues at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Hardware_status" title="Wikipedia:Hardware status">Wikipedia:Hardware status</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Angela" title="User:Angela">Angela</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Angela" title="User talk:Angela">.</a> 01:21, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>Pops, I put that note up there. I just assumed that was why (assume, ASS, U, ME, I know), but there <i>is</i> a shameless spin component. I think it's bad jujubees for newbies to come b/c Newsweek sent 'em and have them find that the site is SLOOOOWWW. Also, it's a nice change to brag. :) <a href="/wiki/User:Jengod" title="User:Jengod">jengod</a> 01:24, Apr 28, 2004 (UTC) </p><p>Wikipedia is (probably) currently being slashdotted - they have a link on their front page stub to <a href="/wiki/Model_view_controller" class="mw-redirect" title="Model view controller">Model view controller</a> at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/27/1429237">http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/04/27/1429237</a>. Wiki's all a bit unusably slow :( --<a href="/wiki/User:Tagishsimon" title="User:Tagishsimon">Tagishsimon</a> 20:42, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Nah, slashdot isn't big enough to take on WP anymore... even the 200,000 article ABOUT WP didn't really affect the servers. As others have said, hardware issues have been the problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Pcb21" title="User:Pcb21">Pete/Pcb21</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pcb21" title="User talk:Pcb21">(talk)</a> 15:07, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>I wouldn't be too concerned about what visitors think, if they're here due to publicity. I've visited several other Webby-nominated sites, and the story's the same everywhere. Lesson: if you get nominated, borrow a couple of extra servers... <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Dwindrim&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Dwindrim (page does not exist)">Denni</a> 22:13, 2004 Apr 28 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Darfur" data-mw-thread-id="h-Darfur"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Darfur"></span>Darfur<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Darfur"></span></h2></div> <p>The Western Sudan <a href="/wiki/Genocide" title="Genocide">genocide</a> in <a href="/wiki/Darfur" title="Darfur">Darfur</a> should be "in the news" on the main page. We shouldn't be silent, when thousands of people die! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:82.83.23.254&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:82.83.23.254 (page does not exist)">82.83.23.254</a> 21:28, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>It's policy not to put something on the 'In the News' (ITN) unless there is an article on it, or the relavant article has been updated. <a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 21:49, Apr 29, 2004 (UTC) <dl><dd>But <a href="/wiki/Darfur" title="Darfur">Darfur</a> exists an it is up-to-date, isn't it? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:82.83.23.254&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:82.83.23.254 (page does not exist)">82.83.23.254</a> 21:55, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC) <dl><dd>There's one sentence <i>By the spring of 2004, several thousand people had been killed and hundreds of thousands more had been driven from their homes, causing a major humanitarian crisis in the region. </i> - that doesn't sound like breaking news to me. <a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 21:59, Apr 29, 2004 (UTC) <dl><dd>That's right. But we don't talk about <i>breaking</i> news, but <i>current</i> news. And of course Sudan is <i>in the news</i>!? Austrias new president isn't a <i>breaking</i> news, too. But it is worth to mention. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:82.83.23.254&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:82.83.23.254 (page does not exist)">82.83.23.254</a> 22:38, 29 Apr 2004 (UTC) <dl><dd>I just went to google news and there are multiple stories on it, so it does appear that it's worth featuring. But as I said, the article itself is not in not in good enough shape to feature. <a href="/wiki/User:Raul654" title="User:Raul654">→Raul654</a> 02:50, Apr 30, 2004 (UTC) <dl><dd>Unforunately english is not my mother language. Perhaps someone else could improve the Darfur article to put it into the "in the news" section? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:82.83.23.254&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:82.83.23.254 (page does not exist)">82.83.23.254</a> 06:34, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="IE_6.0_problem?" data-mw-thread-id="h-IE_6.0_problem?"><span id="IE_6.0_problem.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-IE_6.0_problem?"></span>IE 6.0 problem?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-IE_6.0_problem?"></span></h2></div> <p>The main page seems to want to DL as a file, that can't be displayed. To see it at all I have to point at: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page">http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Main_Page</a> </p><p>instead of </p><p><a class="external free" href="https://www.wikipedia.org">http://www.wikipedia.org</a> </p><p>Am I screwed up on my end or wikipedia's end? <a href="/wiki/User:Dominick" title="User:Dominick">Dominick</a> 13:10, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Works here. <a href="/wiki/User:Fredrik" title="User:Fredrik">Fredrik</a> 13:32, 30 Apr 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page/Archive_18&oldid=1092344493">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page/Archive_18&oldid=1092344493</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden category: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_missing_files" title="Category:Pages with missing files">Pages with missing files</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 9 June 2022, at 18:40<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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