No conspiracy and superdeterminism

<!DOCTYPE html> <html id="XF" lang="en-US" dir="LTR" data-app="public" data-template="thread_view" data-container-key="node-292" data-content-key="thread-1067203" data-logged-in="false" data-cookie-prefix="xf_" data-csrf="1739997692,8e6c10493d8df089d3f8154100db3dbf" class="has-no-js template-thread_view XenBase layout-default style-light sidebar-right xb-toggle-default xb-sidebar-show" > <head>  <script async src="https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtag/js?id=UA-2209856-4"></script> <script> window.dataLayer = window.dataLayer || []; function gtag(){dataLayer.push(arguments);} gtag('js', new Date()); gtag('config', 'UA-2209856-4'); </script> <meta charset="utf-8" /> <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=Edge" /> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1, viewport-fit=cover"> <title>No conspiracy and superdeterminism</title> <link rel="manifest" href="/webmanifest.php"> <meta name="theme-color" content="#466288" /> <meta name="apple-mobile-web-app-title" content="Physics Forums"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="https://www.physicsforums.com/misc/PhysicsForums_logo_192.png"> <meta name="description" content="Hello, I found this paper by Tim Palmer really interesting, about trying to develop a determinist, hidden variables model that doesn't need 'conspiracy' to..." /> <meta property="og:description" content="Hello, I found this paper by Tim Palmer really interesting, about trying to develop a determinist, hidden variables model that doesn't need 'conspiracy' to explain away experimental results around entanglement..." /> <meta property="twitter:description" content="Hello, I found this paper by Tim Palmer really interesting, about trying to develop a determinist, hidden variables model that doesn't need 'conspiracy' to explain away experimental results..." /> <meta property="og:url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <link rel="canonical" href="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <script>document.documentElement.className+=' has-no-fa-brands';</script> <meta property="og:site_name" content="Physics Forums: Science Discussion, Homework Help, Articles" /> <meta property="og:type" content="website" /> <meta property="og:title" content="No conspiracy and superdeterminism" /> <meta property="twitter:title" content="No conspiracy and superdeterminism" /> <meta property="og:image" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/physicsforums/images/physics-forums-logo-og.png" /> <meta property="twitter:image" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/physicsforums/images/physics-forums-logo-og.png" /> <meta property="twitter:card" content="summary" /> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/css.php?css=public%3Anormalize.css%2Cpublic%3Afa.css%2Cpublic%3Acore.less%2Cpublic%3Aapp.less&s=12&l=1&d=1739902263&k=9d0860d3ac6d1d035719345d5207661b971a33e3" /> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/css.php?css=public%3Abb_code.less%2Cpublic%3Amessage.less%2Cpublic%3Apf_first_post_rss.css%2Cpublic%3Aphysicsforums_badges.less%2Cpublic%3Ashare_controls.less%2Cpublic%3Astructured_list.less%2Cpublic%3Athxpress_xf.less%2Cpublic%3Axb.less%2Cpublic%3Aextra.less&s=12&l=1&d=1739902263&k=9c14e37ec294ab0a1d153006a30b72cc0bbc6c76" /> <script src="/js/xf/preamble.min.js?_v=bab3e795"></script> <link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://www.physicsforums.com/favicon.ico" sizes="32x32" /> <meta name="theme-color" content="#0275b4"> </head> <body data-template="thread_view" class=" "> <div class="p-pageWrapper" id="top"> <div class="p-pageWrapper--helper"></div> <div class="xb-page-wrapper xb-canvas-menuActive"> <div class="xb-page-wrapper--helper"></div> <div class="xb-content-wrapper"> <div class="navigation-helper"></div> <div class="p-navSticky p-navSticky--primary" data-xf-init="sticky-header"> <div class="p-nav--wrapper"> <nav class="p-nav"> <div class="p-nav-inner"> <button type="button" class="button--plain p-nav-menuTrigger button" data-xf-click="off-canvas" data-menu=".js-headerOffCanvasMenu" tabindex="0" aria-label="Menu"><span class="button-text"> <i aria-hidden="true"></i> </span></button> <div class="p-nav-smallLogo"> <a href="/"> <img src="https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/logo.png" srcset="" alt="Physics Forums: Science Discussion, Homework Help, Articles" width="274" height="51" /> <img src="https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/physicsforums/xenforo/logosmall.png" width="52" height="50" alt="Physics Forums: Science Discussion, Homework Help, Articles" class="logo-mobile" /> </a> </div> <div class="p-nav-scroller hScroller" data-xf-init="h-scroller" data-auto-scroll=".p-navEl.is-selected"> <div class="hScroller-scroll"> <ul class="p-nav-list js-offCanvasNavSource"> <li class="navthxlink_1"> <div class="p-navEl " data-has-children="true"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/" class="p-navEl-link p-navEl-link--splitMenu " data-nav-id="thxlink_1">Insights Blog</a> <a data-xf-key="1" data-xf-click="menu" data-menu-pos-ref="< .p-navEl" class="p-navEl-splitTrigger" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-label="Toggle expanded" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true"></a> <div class="menu menu--structural" data-menu="menu" aria-hidden="true"> <div class="menu-content"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/postindex/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="toc">-- Browse All Articles --</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-articles/physics-articles/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="physarticles">Physics Articles</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-tutorials/physics-tutorials/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="phystuts">Physics Tutorials</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-guides/physics-guides/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="physguides">Physics Guides</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-faqs/physics-faqs/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="physfaq">Physics FAQ</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-articles/math-articles/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="mathart">Math Articles</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-tutorials/math-tutorials/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="mathtuts">Math Tutorials</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-guides/math-guides/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="mathguide">Math Guides</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-faqs/math-faqs/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="mathfaq">Math FAQ</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-articles/education-articles/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="eduart">Education Articles</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-guides/education-guides/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="eduguide">Education Guides</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-articles/biology-chemistry-articles/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="biochemart">Bio/Chem Articles</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-guides/technology-guides/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="techguides">Technology Guides</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/science-math-tutorials/computer-science-tutorials/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="compscitut">Computer Science Tutorials</a> </div> </div> </div> </li> <li class="navforums"> <div class="p-navEl is-selected" data-has-children="true"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/" class="p-navEl-link p-navEl-link--splitMenu " data-nav-id="forums">Forums</a> <a data-xf-key="2" data-xf-click="menu" data-menu-pos-ref="< .p-navEl" class="p-navEl-splitTrigger" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-label="Toggle expanded" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true"></a> <div class="menu menu--structural" data-menu="menu" aria-hidden="true"> <div class="menu-content"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/classical-physics.61/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="quantum">Classical Physics</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/quantum-physics.62/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="quantummech">Quantum Physics</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/quantum-interpretations-and-foundations.292/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth1 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="quantum_inter">Quantum Interpretations</a> <hr class="menu-separator" /> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/special-and-general-relativity.70/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="genrel">Special and General Relativity</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/atomic-and-condensed-matter.64/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="atomicphys">Atomic and Condensed Matter</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/beyond-the-standard-model.66/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="standardmodel">Beyond the Standard Model</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/cosmology.69/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="cosmo">Cosmology</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/astronomy-and-astrophysics.71/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="astrophysics">Astronomy and Astrophysics</a> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/other-physics-topics.111/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="otherphys">Other Physics Topics</a> </div> </div> </div> </li> <li class="navhotthreads1"> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/whats-new/hot-threads" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="3" data-nav-id="hotthreads1">Trending</a> </div> </li> <li class="navfeaturedthreads1"> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/featured" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="4" data-nav-id="featuredthreads1">Featured Threads</a> </div> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="p-nav-opposite"> <div class="p-navgroup p-account p-navgroup--guest"> <a href="/login/" class="p-navgroup-link p-navgroup-link--textual p-navgroup-link--logIn" data-xf-click="overlay" data-follow-redirects="on"> <span class="p-navgroup-linkText">Log in</span> </a> <a href="/login/register" class="p-navgroup-link p-navgroup-link--textual p-navgroup-link--register" data-xf-click="overlay" data-follow-redirects="on"> <span class="p-navgroup-linkText">Register</span> </a> </div> <div class="p-navgroup p-discovery"> <a href="/whats-new/" class="p-navgroup-link p-navgroup-link--iconic p-navgroup-link--whatsnew" aria-label="What's new" title="What's new"> <i aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="p-navgroup-linkText">What's new</span> </a> <a href="/search/" class="p-navgroup-link p-navgroup-link--iconic p-navgroup-link--search" data-xf-click="menu" data-xf-key="/" aria-label="Search" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true" title="Search"> <i aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="p-navgroup-linkText">Search</span> </a> <div class="menu menu--structural menu--wide" data-menu="menu" aria-hidden="true"> <form action="/search/search" method="post" class="menu-content" data-xf-init="quick-search"> <h3 class="menu-header">Search</h3> <div class="menu-row"> <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=physics+forums" rel='nofollow,noreferrer'><b>Google search</b></a>: add "Physics Forums" to query<br><br> <div class="inputGroup inputGroup--joined"> <input type="text" class="input" name="keywords" placeholder="Search…" aria-label="Search" data-menu-autofocus="true" /> <select name="constraints" class="js-quickSearch-constraint input" aria-label="Search within"> <option value="">Everywhere</option> <option value="{"search_type":"post"}">Threads</option> <option value="{"search_type":"post","c":{"nodes":[292],"child_nodes":1}}">This forum</option> <option value="{"search_type":"post","c":{"thread":1067203}}">This thread</option> </select> </div> </div> <div class="menu-row"> <label class="iconic"><input type="checkbox" name="c[title_only]" value="1" /><i aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="iconic-label">Search titles only <span tabindex="0" role="button" data-xf-init="tooltip" data-trigger="hover focus click" title="Tags will also be searched in content where tags are supported"> <i class="fa--xf far fa-question-circle u-muted u-smaller" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span></span></label> </div> <div class="menu-row"> <div class="inputGroup"> <span class="inputGroup-text" id="ctrl_search_menu_by_member">By:</span> <input type="text" class="input" name="c[users]" data-xf-init="auto-complete" placeholder="Member" aria-labelledby="ctrl_search_menu_by_member" /> </div> </div> <div class="menu-footer"> <span class="menu-footer-controls"> <button type="submit" class="button--primary button button--icon button--icon--search"><span class="button-text">Search</span></button> <a href="/search/" class="button"><span class="button-text">Advanced search…</span></a> </span> </div> <input type="hidden" name="_xfToken" value="1739997692,8e6c10493d8df089d3f8154100db3dbf" /> </form> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="p-sectionLinks--wrapper"> <div class="p-sectionLinks"> <div class="p-sectionLinks-inner"> <div class="hScroller" data-xf-init="h-scroller"> <div class="hScroller-scroll"> <ul class="p-sectionLinks-list"> <li> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/classical-physics.61/" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="alt+1" data-nav-id="quantum">Classical Physics</a> </div> </li> <li> <div class="p-navEl " data-has-children="true"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/quantum-physics.62/" class="p-navEl-link p-navEl-link--splitMenu " data-nav-id="quantummech">Quantum Physics</a> <a data-xf-key="alt+2" data-xf-click="menu" data-menu-pos-ref="< .p-navEl" class="p-navEl-splitTrigger" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-label="Toggle expanded" aria-expanded="false" aria-haspopup="true"></a> <div class="menu menu--structural" data-menu="menu" aria-hidden="true"> <div class="menu-content"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/quantum-interpretations-and-foundations.292/" class="menu-linkRow u-indentDepth0 js-offCanvasCopy " data-nav-id="quantum_inter">Quantum Interpretations</a> </div> </div> </div> </li> <li> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/special-and-general-relativity.70/" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="alt+3" data-nav-id="genrel">Special and General Relativity</a> </div> </li> <li> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/atomic-and-condensed-matter.64/" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="alt+4" data-nav-id="atomicphys">Atomic and Condensed Matter</a> </div> </li> <li> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/beyond-the-standard-model.66/" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="alt+5" data-nav-id="standardmodel">Beyond the Standard Model</a> </div> </li> <li> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/cosmology.69/" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="alt+6" data-nav-id="cosmo">Cosmology</a> </div> </li> <li> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/astronomy-and-astrophysics.71/" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="alt+7" data-nav-id="astrophysics">Astronomy and Astrophysics</a> </div> </li> <li> <div class="p-navEl " > <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/forums/other-physics-topics.111/" class="p-navEl-link " data-xf-key="alt+8" data-nav-id="otherphys">Other Physics Topics</a> </div> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="p-sectionLinks-right"> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="offCanvasMenu offCanvasMenu--nav js-headerOffCanvasMenu" data-menu="menu" aria-hidden="true" data-ocm-builder="navigation"> <div class="offCanvasMenu-backdrop" data-menu-close="true"></div> <div class="offCanvasMenu-content"> <div class="offCanvasMenu-content--inner"> <div class="offCanvasMenu-header"> Menu <a class="offCanvasMenu-closer" data-menu-close="true" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-label="Close"></a> </div> <div class="p-offCanvasRegisterLink"> <div class="offCanvasMenu-linkHolder"> <a href="/login/" class="offCanvasMenu-link" data-xf-click="overlay" data-menu-close="true"> Log in </a> </div> <hr class="offCanvasMenu-separator" /> <div class="offCanvasMenu-linkHolder"> <a href="/login/register" class="offCanvasMenu-link" data-xf-click="overlay" data-menu-close="true"> Register </a> </div> <hr class="offCanvasMenu-separator" /> </div> <div class="offCanvasMenu-subHeader">Navigation</div> <div class="js-offCanvasNavTarget"></div>  <div class="offCanvasMenu-subHeader">More options</div> <div class="offCanvasMenu-linkHolder"> <a href="/misc/contact" class="offCanvasMenu-link" data-menu-close="true" data-nav-id="contactUs" data-xf-click="overlay">Contact us</a> </div> <div class="offCanvasMenu-linkHolder"> <a class="offCanvasMenu-link" data-menu-close="true" data-nav-id="closeMenu" role="button" tabindex="0" aria-label="Close">Close Menu</a> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="p-body"> <div class="p-body-inner">  <noscript class="js-jsWarning"><div class="blockMessage blockMessage--important blockMessage--iconic u-noJsOnly">JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.</div></noscript> <div class="blockMessage blockMessage--important blockMessage--iconic js-browserWarning" style="display: none">You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.<br />You should upgrade or use an <a href="https://www.google.com/chrome/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">alternative browser</a>.</div> <div class="p-body-main p-body-main--withSidebar "> <div class="p-body-contentCol"></div> <div class="p-body-sidebarCol"></div> <div class="p-body-content"> <div class="p-body-pageContent"> <div class="p-breadcrumbs--parent "> <ul class="p-breadcrumbs " itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/BreadcrumbList"> <li itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/" itemprop="item"> <span itemprop="name">Forums</span> </a> <meta itemprop="position" content="1" /> </li> <li itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"> <a href="/#physics.9" itemprop="item"> <span itemprop="name">Physics</span> </a> <meta itemprop="position" content="2" /> </li> <li itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"> <a href="/forums/quantum-physics.62/" itemprop="item"> <span itemprop="name">Quantum Physics</span> </a> <meta itemprop="position" content="3" /> </li> <li itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"> <a href="/forums/quantum-interpretations-and-foundations.292/" itemprop="item"> <span itemprop="name">Quantum Interpretations and Foundations</span> </a> <meta itemprop="position" content="4" /> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="p-body-header"> <div class="p-title "> <h1 class="p-title-value">No conspiracy and superdeterminism </h1> </div> <div class="p-description"> <ul class="listInline listInline--bullet"> <li> <span data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Level: Intermediate (Undergrad)" ><span class="prefix inter" dir="auto">I</span></span> </li> <li> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-user" aria-hidden="true" title="Thread starter"></i> <span class="u-srOnly">Thread starter</span> <span>JuneSpring25</span> </li> <li> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-clock" aria-hidden="true" title="Start date"></i> <span class="u-srOnly">Start date</span> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-11-30T12:27:40-0600" data-time="1732991260" data-date-string="Nov 30, 2024" data-time-string="12:27 PM" title="Nov 30, 2024 at 12:27 PM">Nov 30, 2024</time> </li> <li> <dl class="tagList tagList--thread-1067203 "> <dt> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-tags" aria-hidden="true" title="Tags"></i> <span class="u-srOnly">Tags</span> </dt> <dd> <span class="js-tagList"> <a href="/tags/entanglement/" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/tags/entanglement/preview" class="tagItem tagItem--tag_entanglement" dir="auto"> Entanglement </a> <a href="/tags/variables/" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/tags/variables/preview" class="tagItem tagItem--tag_variables" dir="auto"> Variables </a> </span> </dd> </dl> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <script src="https://www.physicsforums.com/check-for-tex.js" defer></script> <div class="block block--messages" data-xf-init="" data-type="post" data-href="/inline-mod/" data-search-target="*"> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="posts"></span> <div class="block-outer"></div> <div class="block-outer js-threadStatusField"></div> <div class="block-container lbContainer" data-xf-init="lightbox select-to-quote" data-message-selector=".js-post" data-lb-id="thread-1067203" data-lb-universal="0"> <div class="block-body js-replyNewMessageContainer">  <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="JuneSpring25" data-content="post-7135097" id="js-post-7135097" > <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7135097"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-11-30T12:27:40-0600" data-time="1732991260" data-date-string="Nov 30, 2024" data-time-string="12:27 PM" title="Nov 30, 2024 at 12:27 PM">Nov 30, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7135097/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #1 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" > <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><span class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="701886">JuneSpring25</span></span>   <span class="threadstarter" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Thread Starter"><i class="fal fa-user-edit"></i></span>   </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>17</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>0</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7135097" data-lb-caption-desc="JuneSpring25 · Nov 30, 2024 at 12:27 PM"> <div class="message-fields message-fields--before"> <dl class="pairs pairs--columns pairs--fixedSmall pairs--customField" data-field="summary"> <dt>TL;DR Summary</dt> <dd>A new model for deterministic QM without conspiracy</dd> </dl> </div> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div > <div class="bbWrapper">Hello,<br /> <br /> I found this paper by Tim Palmer really interesting, about trying to develop a determinist, hidden variables model that doesn't need 'conspiracy' to explain away experimental results around entanglement<br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377513673_Superdeterminism_without_Conspiracy" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377513673_Superdeterminism_without_Conspiracy</a><br /> <br /> Can anyone explain in more simple terms how Tim Palmer deals with the entanglement problem wtihout needing there to be some bizarre way of correlating the measurement device settings?</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> <div class="googleads_fixed"> <script async src="https://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js?client=ca-pub-6580726045122001" crossorigin="anonymous"></script>  <ins class="adsbygoogle" style="display:block" data-ad-client="ca-pub-6580726045122001" data-ad-slot="3049969336" data-ad-format="auto" data-full-width-responsive="true"></ins> <script> (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); </script> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article>  <div class="message-cell message-cell--main" id="post-physorg"> <a href="https://phys.org/physics-news/" target="_blank">Physics news</a> on Phys.org <ul class="phys_items"> <li><a href="https://phys.org/news/2025-02-secrets-fusion-core-ai-simulations.html" target="_blank">Unlocking the secrets of fusion's core with AI-enhanced simulations</a></li> <li><a href="https://phys.org/news/2025-02-quantum-billiard-balls-deeper-atomic.html" target="_blank">Quantum billiard balls: Digging deeper into light-assisted atomic collisions</a></li> <li><a href="https://phys.org/news/2025-02-nanoscale-technique-atomic-vibrations-quantum.html" target="_blank">Nanoscale technique uses atomic vibrations to show how quantum materials behave at interfaces</a></li> </ul> </div> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="pines-demon" data-content="post-7135236" id="js-post-7135236" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/7135236/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7135236"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-12-01T12:56:48-0600" data-time="1733079408" data-date-string="Dec 1, 2024" data-time-string="12:56 PM" title="Dec 1, 2024 at 12:56 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 1, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7135236/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #2 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/pines-demon.744598/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/pines-demon.744598/" /> <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><span class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="744598"><span itemprop="name">pines-demon</span></span></span>    <div class="post-badges"> <div class="post-badge badge-star" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to Support PF"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-star" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Gold Member</span> </div> <div class="post-badge badge-trophy" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="2024 Award Winner"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-trophy" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> 2024 Award</span> </div> </div>  </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>732</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>590</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7135236" data-lb-caption-desc="pines-demon · Dec 1, 2024 at 12:56 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 701886" data-quote="JuneSpring25" data-source="post: 7135097" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> JuneSpring25 said: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> <b>TL;DR Summary:</b> A new model for deterministic QM without conspiracy<br /> <br /> Hello,<br /> <br /> I found this paper by Tim Palmer really interesting, about trying to develop a determinist, hidden variables model that doesn't need 'conspiracy' to explain away experimental results around entanglement<br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377513673_Superdeterminism_without_Conspiracy" target="_blank" class="link link--external" rel="nofollow ugc noopener">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/377513673_Superdeterminism_without_Conspiracy</a><br /> <br /> Can anyone explain in more simple terms how Tim Palmer deals with the entanglement problem wtihout needing there to be some bizarre way of correlating the measurement device settings? </div> </div> </blockquote>From what I have seen from him on YouTube, it could be different on paper, Palmer does not seem to understand hidden variables. Tim Maudlin criticizes him in this video and his comebacks are not very convincing:<br /> <span data-s9e-mediaembed="youtube"><span><span data-s9e-mediaembed-c2l="youtube" data-s9e-mediaembed-c2l-background="linear-gradient(0deg,rgba(0,0,0,0) 0,rgba(0,0,0,0) 72%,rgba(0,0,0,.04) 79%,rgba(0,0,0,.1) 83%,rgba(0,0,0,.25) 88%,rgba(0,0,0,.67) 100%),url(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/883R3JlZHXE/hqdefault.jpg) 50% 50% / cover" data-s9e-mediaembed-c2l-oembed-id="883R3JlZHXE" data-s9e-mediaembed-c2l-oembed-title="Tim Maudlin Λ Palmer: Fractal Geometry, Non-locality, Bell" data-s9e-mediaembed-iframe='["allowfullscreen","","scrolling","no","allow","autoplay","src","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/883R3JlZHXE?autoplay=1"]'></span></span></span></div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article>  <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author=".Scott" data-content="post-7135246" id="js-post-7135246" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/7135246/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7135246"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-12-01T13:56:39-0600" data-time="1733082999" data-date-string="Dec 1, 2024" data-time-string="1:56 PM" title="Dec 1, 2024 at 1:56 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 1, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7135246/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #3 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/scott.489053/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/scott.489053/" /> <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><a href="/members/scott.489053/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="489053" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">.Scott</span></a></span>    <div class="post-badges"> <div class="post-badge badge-university" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Verified Expert in Science and Math"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-university" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Science Advisor</span> </div> <div class="post-badge badge-cap" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Verified Expert with Homework Help"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-graduation-cap" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Homework Helper</span> </div> </div>  </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>3,556</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>1,659</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7135246" data-lb-caption-desc=".Scott · Dec 1, 2024 at 1:56 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">I haven't read through that paper fully, but superdeterminism does not need the kind of explanation that Tim Palmer pines for. Superdeterminism is one interpretation of the physics behind the Bell inequality. There is no need for it to make "mechanical sense" beyond being consistent with observations.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> <div class="googleads_fixed"> <script async src="https://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/js/adsbygoogle.js?client=ca-pub-6580726045122001" crossorigin="anonymous"></script>  <ins class="adsbygoogle" style="display:block" data-ad-client="ca-pub-6580726045122001" data-ad-slot="5961342082" data-ad-format="auto" data-full-width-responsive="true"></ins> <script> (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); </script> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="2" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Likes</span> <bdi>PeroK</bdi> and <bdi>pines-demon</bdi> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article>  <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="pines-demon" data-content="post-7135325" id="js-post-7135325" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/7135325/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7135325"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-12-02T03:49:45-0600" data-time="1733132985" data-date-string="Dec 2, 2024" data-time-string="3:49 AM" title="Dec 2, 2024 at 3:49 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 2, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7135325/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #4 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/pines-demon.744598/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/pines-demon.744598/" /> <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><span class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="744598"><span itemprop="name">pines-demon</span></span></span>    <div class="post-badges"> <div class="post-badge badge-star" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to Support PF"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-star" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Gold Member</span> </div> <div class="post-badge badge-trophy" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="2024 Award Winner"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-trophy" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> 2024 Award</span> </div> </div>  </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>732</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>590</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7135325" data-lb-caption-desc="pines-demon · Dec 2, 2024 at 3:49 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 489053" data-quote=".Scott" data-source="post: 7135246" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> .Scott said: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I haven't read through that paper fully, but superdeterminism does not need the kind of explanation that Tim Palmer pines for. Superdeterminism is one interpretation of the physics behind the Bell inequality. There is no need for it to make "mechanical sense" beyond being consistent with observations. </div> </div> </blockquote>The usual claim is that statistical independence is an assumption of Bell's theorem. Removing that assumption allows you to have violations of Bell's inequalities and keep "locality and determinism". However that also means that everything (including quantum states) is distinct in some hidden ways and it is hard to say anything about the world as no experimental results can be reproduced (conspiracy). Palmer says that this is not the case, there is no conspiracy. If that's the case he has to explain why (he uses some elaborate chaos theory to explain such a thing).</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article>  <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="msumm21" data-content="post-7136325" id="js-post-7136325" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/7136325/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7136325"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-12-07T14:03:29-0600" data-time="1733601809" data-date-string="Dec 7, 2024" data-time-string="2:03 PM" title="Dec 7, 2024 at 2:03 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 7, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7136325/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #5 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/msumm21.160360/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/msumm21.160360/" /> <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><span class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="160360"><span itemprop="name">msumm21</span></span></span>     </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>247</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>28</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7136325" data-lb-caption-desc="msumm21 · Dec 7, 2024 at 2:03 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">I watched it, but couldn't determine what Palmer was arguing for. In the example Maudlin gave, Alice and Bob share 10^6 entangled electron pairs and "randomly" choose about 1/4 to be measured on XX, 1/4 on XY, 1/4 on YX and 1/4 on YY. <br /> <br /> What exactly is Palmer saying could have caused Alice & Bob to rig their decisions so that e.g. the ones chosen for XX have a significantly different probability distribution of states, compared to e.g. the ones chosen for XY?</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article>  <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="pines-demon" data-content="post-7136331" id="js-post-7136331" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/7136331/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7136331"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-12-07T14:45:40-0600" data-time="1733604340" data-date-string="Dec 7, 2024" data-time-string="2:45 PM" title="Dec 7, 2024 at 2:45 PM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 7, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7136331/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #6 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/pines-demon.744598/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/pines-demon.744598/" /> <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><span class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="744598"><span itemprop="name">pines-demon</span></span></span>    <div class="post-badges"> <div class="post-badge badge-star" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to Support PF"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-star" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Gold Member</span> </div> <div class="post-badge badge-trophy" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="2024 Award Winner"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-trophy" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> 2024 Award</span> </div> </div>  </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>732</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>590</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7136331" data-lb-caption-desc="pines-demon · Dec 7, 2024 at 2:45 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 160360" data-quote="msumm21" data-source="post: 7136325" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> msumm21 said: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I watched it, but couldn't determine what Palmer was arguing for. In the example Maudlin gave, Alice and Bob share 10^6 entangled electron pairs and "randomly" choose about 1/4 to be measured on XX, 1/4 on XY, 1/4 on YX and 1/4 on YY.<br /> <br /> What exactly is Palmer saying could have caused Alice & Bob to rig their decisions so that e.g. the ones chosen for XX have a significantly different probability distribution of states, compared to e.g. the ones chosen for XY? </div> </div> </blockquote>chaos ##\rightarrow## magic ##\rightarrow## Bell correlations</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article>  <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Demystifier" data-content="post-7136424" id="js-post-7136424" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/7136424/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7136424"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-12-08T02:23:48-0600" data-time="1733646228" data-date-string="Dec 8, 2024" data-time-string="2:23 AM" title="Dec 8, 2024 at 2:23 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 8, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7136424/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #7 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/demystifier.61953/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/demystifier.61953/" /> <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><a href="/members/demystifier.61953/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="61953" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">Demystifier</span></a></span>    <div class="post-badges"> <div class="post-badge badge-university" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Verified Expert in Science and Math"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-university" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Science Advisor</span> </div> <div class="post-badge badge-file" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to View My Articles"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/author/Demystifier/"><i class="fa--xf fal fa-file-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Insights Author</span></a> </div> <div class="post-badge badge-star" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to Support PF"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-star" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Gold Member</span> </div> </div>  </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>14,432</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>6,932</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7136424" data-lb-caption-desc="Demystifier · Dec 8, 2024 at 2:23 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 701886" data-quote="JuneSpring25" data-source="post: 7135097" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> JuneSpring25 said: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> <b>TL;DR Summary:</b> A new model for deterministic QM without conspiracy<br /> <br /> Can anyone explain in more simple terms how Tim Palmer deals with the entanglement problem wtihout needing there to be some bizarre way of correlating the measurement device settings? </div> </div> </blockquote>The theory is bizarre in the sense that it is not formulated in spacetime, so the claim that it is "locally causal" is unjustified. The theory does not contain things that Bell calls <i>local beables, </i>and without local beables the theory cannot be local in any serious Bell-like sense. The author draws some space-time diagrams when he claims that his theory is locally causal, but, as far as I can see, these space-time diagrams do not correspond to any formal part of the theory which, as I said, is not formulated in spacetime.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="4" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Likes</span> <bdi>DrChinese</bdi>, <bdi>PeterDonis</bdi>, <bdi>PeroK</bdi> and 1 other person </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article>  <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Fra" data-content="post-7136434" id="js-post-7136434" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/7136434/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7136434"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-12-08T05:08:50-0600" data-time="1733656130" data-date-string="Dec 8, 2024" data-time-string="5:08 AM" title="Dec 8, 2024 at 5:08 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 8, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7136434/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #8 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/fra.76451/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/fra.76451/" /> <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><span class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="76451"><span itemprop="name">Fra</span></span></span>     </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>4,232</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>648</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7136434" data-lb-caption-desc="Fra · Dec 8, 2024 at 5:08 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">I personally find it difficult to see how Palmers way of reasoning will produce predictive or explanatory value.<br /> It seems more like he is considering theoretically possible, but not very probable mechanisms. IMO a good explanation must have some naturalness to me. Explanations is about arguing about what is plausible, not what is possible. <br /> <br /> So, not for me.<br /> <br /> /Fredrik</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="1" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Likes</span> <bdi>PeroK</bdi> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article>  <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="pines-demon" data-content="post-7136438" id="js-post-7136438" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Comment" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/posts/7136438/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-7136438"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-12-08T06:21:05-0600" data-time="1733660465" data-date-string="Dec 8, 2024" data-time-string="6:21 AM" title="Dec 8, 2024 at 6:21 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Dec 8, 2024</time> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <span style="cursor:pointer;" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/7136438/share" aria-label="Share" role="button" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </span> </li> <li> #9 </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/pines-demon.744598/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.physicsforums.com/members/pines-demon.744598/" /> <div class="message-userDetails"> <span class="message-name"><span class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="744598"><span itemprop="name">pines-demon</span></span></span>    <div class="post-badges"> <div class="post-badge badge-star" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Click to Support PF"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-star" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> Gold Member</span> </div> <div class="post-badge badge-trophy" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="2024 Award Winner"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-trophy" aria-hidden="true"></i><span> 2024 Award</span> </div> </div>  </div> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-comments fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Messages"></i></dt> <dd>732</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt><i class="fa--xf fal fa-thumbs-up fa-fw" aria-hidden="true" data-xf-init="tooltip" title="Reaction score"></i></dt> <dd>590</dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-7136438" data-lb-caption-desc="pines-demon · Dec 8, 2024 at 6:21 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 76451" data-quote="Fra" data-source="post: 7136434" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> Fra said: </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> It seems more like he is considering theoretically possible, but not very probable mechanisms. </div> </div> </blockquote>I do not even see this. So not for me either.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="2" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList is-active"> <ul class="reactionSummary"> <li><span class="reaction reaction--small reaction--1" data-reaction-id="1"><i aria-hidden="true"></i><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="reaction-sprite js-reaction" alt="Like" title="Like" /></span></li> </ul> <span class="u-srOnly">Likes</span> <bdi>DrChinese</bdi> and <bdi>Fra</bdi> </div> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> <script> if (typeof parseNewPost == 'function') { $(document).ajaxStop(parseNewPost(7136438)); } </script> </div> </div> </div> </article> </div> </div> </div> <form action="/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/add-reply" method="post" class="block js-quickReply" data-xf-init="attachment-manager quick-reply ajax-submit draft" data-draft-url="/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/draft" data-draft-autosave="60" data-captcha-context="xf_guest_thread_quick_reply" data-message-container="div[data-type='post'] .js-replyNewMessageContainer" > <input type="hidden" name="_xfToken" value="1739997692,8e6c10493d8df089d3f8154100db3dbf" /> <div class="block-container"> <div class="block-body"> <div class="message message--quickReply block-topRadiusContent block-bottomRadiusContent"> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <div class="message-user "> <div class="message-avatar"> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <span class="avatar avatar--m avatar--default avatar--default--text" data-user-id="0"> <span class="avatar-u0-m"></span> </span> </div> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </div> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-editorWrapper tex2jax_ignore"> <textarea name="message" class="input input--fitHeight js-editor" style="min-height: 100px; " data-xf-init="textarea-handler user-mentioner emoji-completer draft-trigger" aria-label="Rich text box" data-min-height="100" placeholder="Write your reply..." data-deferred="off" data-xf-key="r" data-preview-url="/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/reply-preview"></textarea> <div class="js-captchaContainer" data-row-type="fullWidth noGutter"></div> <noscript><input type="hidden" name="no_captcha" value="1" /></noscript> <div class="formButtonGroup "> <div class="formButtonGroup-primary"> <button type="submit" class="button--primary button button--icon button--icon--reply"><span class="button-text"> Post reply </span></button> </div> <div class="formButtonGroup-extra"> <button type="button" class="button--link button--multiQuote button button--icon button--icon--quote" style="display: none;" data-xf-init="multi-quote" data-href="/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/multi-quote" data-message-selector=".js-post" data-storage-key="multiQuoteThread" data-add-message="Message added to multi-quote." data-remove-message="Message removed from multi-quote."><span class="button-text"> Insert quotes… </span></button> </div> <input type="hidden" name="last_date" value="1733660465" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="last_known_date" value="1733660465" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="load_extra" value="1" /> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </form> <div class="block" data-widget-id="119" data-widget-key="xfes_thread_view_below_quick_reply_similar_threads" data-widget-definition="xfes_similar_threads"> <div class="block-container"> <h3 class="block-header">Similar threads</h3> <div class="block-body"> <div class="structItemContainer"> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix91 is-locked js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1012038" data-author="Mgt3"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix inter" dir="auto">I</span> <a href="/threads/closing-the-superdeterminism-loophole.1012038/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/closing-the-superdeterminism-loophole.1012038/preview">Closing the Superdeterminism Loophole?</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2022-02-09T15:03:42-0600" data-time="1644440622" data-date-string="Feb 9, 2022" data-time-string="3:03 PM" title="Feb 9, 2022 at 3:03 PM">Feb 9, 2022</time></li>  </ul> <span class="structItem-pageJump"> <a href="/threads/closing-the-superdeterminism-loophole.1012038/page-2">2</a> </span> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 0"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>41</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>7K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix92 js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1049999" data-author="DrChinese"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix advanced" dir="auto">A</span> <a href="/threads/how-many-hidden-variables-would-it-take-to-model-photon-polarization.1049999/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/how-many-hidden-variables-would-it-take-to-model-photon-polarization.1049999/preview">How Many Hidden Variables Would It Take to Model Photon Polarization?</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-03-11T05:15:40-0600" data-time="1678533340" data-date-string="Mar 11, 2023" data-time-string="5:15 AM" title="Mar 11, 2023 at 5:15 AM">Mar 11, 2023</time></li>  </ul> <span class="structItem-pageJump"> <a href="/threads/how-many-hidden-variables-would-it-take-to-model-photon-polarization.1049999/page-2">2</a> </span> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 1"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>45</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>5K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix91 is-locked js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1054694" data-author="kurt101"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix inter" dir="auto">I</span> <a href="/threads/realism-in-the-entanglement-swap-experiment.1054694/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/realism-in-the-entanglement-swap-experiment.1054694/preview">Realism in the entanglement swap experiment</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-08-16T11:39:58-0500" data-time="1692203998" data-date-string="Aug 16, 2023" data-time-string="11:39 AM" title="Aug 16, 2023 at 11:39 AM">Aug 16, 2023</time></li>  </ul> <span class="structItem-pageJump"> <a href="/threads/realism-in-the-entanglement-swap-experiment.1054694/page-3">3</a> </span> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 0"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>96</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>6K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix91 is-locked js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1058630" data-author="bhobba"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix inter" dir="auto">I</span> <a href="/threads/could-tim-maudlins-views-on-bell-and-qm-be-flawed.1058630/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/could-tim-maudlins-views-on-bell-and-qm-be-flawed.1058630/preview">Could Tim Maudlin's Views on Bell and QM Be Flawed?</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-12-31T15:43:12-0600" data-time="1704058992" data-date-string="Dec 31, 2023" data-time-string="3:43 PM" title="Dec 31, 2023 at 3:43 PM">Dec 31, 2023</time></li>  </ul> <span class="structItem-pageJump"> <a href="/threads/could-tim-maudlins-views-on-bell-and-qm-be-flawed.1058630/page-2">2</a> </span> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 2"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>37</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>4K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix91 js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1017102" data-author="Bob Walance"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix inter" dir="auto">I</span> <a href="/threads/is-many-worlds-interpretation-compatible-with-er-epr.1017102/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/is-many-worlds-interpretation-compatible-with-er-epr.1017102/preview">Is Many Worlds Interpretation Compatible with ER=EPR?</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2022-07-26T10:49:50-0500" data-time="1658850590" data-date-string="Jul 26, 2022" data-time-string="10:49 AM" title="Jul 26, 2022 at 10:49 AM">Jul 26, 2022</time></li>  </ul> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 0"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>3</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>3K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix92 js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1058989" data-author="DrChinese"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix advanced" dir="auto">A</span> <a href="/threads/loophole-free-test-of-local-realism-via-hardys-violation.1058989/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/loophole-free-test-of-local-realism-via-hardys-violation.1058989/preview">Loophole-free test of local realism via Hardy's violation</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-01-28T08:03:51-0600" data-time="1706450631" data-date-string="Jan 28, 2024" data-time-string="8:03 AM" title="Jan 28, 2024 at 8:03 AM">Jan 28, 2024</time></li>  </ul> <span class="structItem-pageJump"> <a href="/threads/loophole-free-test-of-local-realism-via-hardys-violation.1058989/page-2">2</a> </span> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 3"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>37</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>4K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix91 js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-995429" data-author="MichPod"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix inter" dir="auto">I</span> <a href="/threads/an-argument-against-super-determinism.995429/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/an-argument-against-super-determinism.995429/preview">An argument against super-determinism</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-06-10T05:56:51-0500" data-time="1686394611" data-date-string="Jun 10, 2023" data-time-string="5:56 AM" title="Jun 10, 2023 at 5:56 AM">Jun 10, 2023</time></li>  </ul> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 0"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>8</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>3K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix92 is-locked js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1048834" data-author="Jarvis323"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix advanced" dir="auto">A</span> <a href="/threads/hidden-assumptions-in-bells-theorem.1048834/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/hidden-assumptions-in-bells-theorem.1048834/preview">Hidden Assumptions in Bell's Theorem?</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-01-27T17:54:02-0600" data-time="1674863642" data-date-string="Jan 27, 2023" data-time-string="5:54 PM" title="Jan 27, 2023 at 5:54 PM">Jan 27, 2023</time></li>  </ul> <span class="structItem-pageJump"> <a href="/threads/hidden-assumptions-in-bells-theorem.1048834/page-10">10</a> </span> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 0"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>333</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>16K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix90 js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1050972" data-author="PainterGuy"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix basic" dir="auto">B</span> <a href="/threads/quantum-entanglement-and-hidden-variables.1050972/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/quantum-entanglement-and-hidden-variables.1050972/preview">Quantum entanglement and hidden variables</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2023-03-31T01:31:40-0500" data-time="1680244300" data-date-string="Mar 31, 2023" data-time-string="1:31 AM" title="Mar 31, 2023 at 1:31 AM">Mar 31, 2023</time></li>  </ul> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 0"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>7</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>2K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="structItem structItem--thread is-prefix91 js-inlineModContainer js-threadListItem-1000622" data-author="ObjectivelyRational"> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--main" data-xf-init="touch-proxy"> <div class="structItem-title"> <span class="prefix inter" dir="auto">I</span> <a href="/threads/bells-inequality-4-entangled-photons-impossible.1000622/" class="" data-tp-primary="on" data-xf-init="preview-tooltip" data-preview-url="/threads/bells-inequality-4-entangled-photons-impossible.1000622/preview">Bell's Inequality => 4 entangled Photons impossible?</a> </div> <div class="structItem-minor"> <ul class="structItem-parts"> <li class="structItem-startDate"><time class="structItem-latestDate u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2021-03-09T10:28:57-0600" data-time="1615307337" data-date-string="Mar 9, 2021" data-time-string="10:28 AM" title="Mar 9, 2021 at 10:28 AM">Mar 9, 2021</time></li>  </ul> <ul class="structItem-parts"> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="structItem-cell structItem-cell--meta" title="First message reaction score: 0"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Replies</dt> <dd>1</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified structItem-minor"> <dt>Views</dt> <dd>1K</dd> </dl> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="blockMessage blockMessage--none"> <div class="shareButtons shareButtons--iconic" data-xf-init="share-buttons" data-page-url="" data-page-title="" data-page-desc="" data-page-image=""> <span class="shareButtons-label">Share:</span> <div class="shareButtons-buttons"> <a class="shareButtons-button shareButtons-button--share is-hidden" data-xf-init="web-share" data-title="" data-text="" data-url="" data-hide=".shareButtons-button:not(.shareButtons-button--share)"> <i aria-hidden="true"></i> <span>Share</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <script>((e,g,z,h,t)=>{function u(a){const b=[],[c,f]=a;v.forEach(d=>{var k=d.getBoundingClientRect();if(k.bottom<c||k.top>f||!k.width)k=!1;else{let n=d.parentElement,A=n;for(;n;)/bbCodeBlock-expandContent/.test(n.className)&&(A=n),n=n.parentElement;k=k.top<=A.getBoundingClientRect().bottom}k?d.hasAttribute(h+"-c2l")?I(d):B(d):b.push(d)});v=b;v.length||C(e.removeEventListener)}function C(a){["click","load","resize","scroll","visibilitychange"].forEach(b=>a(b,J,{capture:!0,passive:!0}))}function D(){return[g.querySelector(".p-navSticky")?.getBoundingClientRect().bottom??0,e.innerHeight]}function J(a){let b=a.target,c;"click"===a.type&&"A"===b.tagName?(a=b.dataset.contentSelector??"",/^#[-\w]+$/.test(a)?r(a):(c=/(.*)(#[-\w]+)$/.exec(b.href))&&c[1]===g.baseURI.replace(/#.*/,"")&&r(c[2])):m&&E();e.clearTimeout(F);F=e.setTimeout(K,32)}function B(a){let b=-1,c=g.createElement("iframe"),f=JSON.parse(a.getAttribute(h+"-iframe"));for(;++b<f.length;)c.setAttribute(f[b],f[++b]);c.loading="eager";"on3"===c.getAttribute(h)&&e.addEventListener("message",d=>{d.source===c.contentWindow&&d.data.height&&w(c,+d.data.height+20+"")});L(c,a.parentNode);a.replaceWith(c);2==c.getAttribute(h+"-api")&&(c.onload=()=>M(c),a=l[G(c.src)],""<a&&w(c,a))}function M(a){const b=new MessageChannel,c=G(a.src);b.port1.onmessage=f=>{const d=""+f.data;e.setTimeout(()=>{w(a,l[c]||d)},l[c]>=+d.split(" ")[0]?2E3:0);try{.1>Math.random()&&N(),l[c]=d}catch{}};a.contentWindow.postMessage("s9e:init","*",[b.port2])}function O(a){a=a.getBoundingClientRect();const [b,c]=D();return a.bottom>c?2:a.top<b?0:1}function w(a,b){const [c,f]=[...b.split(" "),0],d=a.style;if(d.height!==c+"px"||f&&d.width!==f+"px"){a=O(a);var k=(b=0===a||1===a&&1===x&&!m)?p.scrollHeight-e.scrollY:0;if(1!==a||b||m||"complete"!==g.readyState)d.transition="none",e.setTimeout(()=>{d.transition=""},32);q=e.scrollY;d.height=c+"px";f&&(d.width=f+"px");b&&0<q&&(a=p.scrollHeight-e.scrollY-k)&&e.scrollBy({behavior:"instant",top:a});q=e.scrollY}}function K(){x=q>(q=e.scrollY)&&!m?1:0;if("hidden"!==g.visibilityState&&"complete"===g.readyState){const a=2*e.innerHeight;u([-a/(0===x?4:2),a])}}function I(a){a.hasAttribute(h+"-c2l-background")&&((a.hasAttribute(h)?a:a.parentElement.parentElement).style.background=a.getAttribute(h+"-c2l-background"));a.onclick=b=>{b.stopPropagation();B(a)}}function L(a,b){a.hasAttribute(h)||b.hasAttribute("style")||(b.className=t+"-inactive",b.onclick=()=>{const c=b.getBoundingClientRect(),f=a.style;f.bottom=p.clientHeight-c.bottom+"px";f.height=c.height+"px";f.width=c.width+"px";"rtl"===p.dir?f.left=c.left+"px":f.right=p.clientWidth-c.right+"px";a.offsetHeight&&/inactive/.test(b.className)?(b.className=t+"-active-tn",a.removeAttribute("style"),y?.click(),y=b):(b.className=t+"-inactive-tn",y=null)},a.addEventListener("transitionend",()=>{/-tn/.test(b.className)&&(b.className=b.className.replace("-tn",""),a.removeAttribute("style"))}))}function G(a){return a.replace(/.*?ifram(e\/\d+\/\w+)[^#]*(#[^#]+).*/,"s9$1$2")}function N(){if(l instanceof Storage){var a=l.length||0;if(100<a)for(;0<=--a;){const b=l.key(a)||"";/^s9e\//.test(b)&&.5>Math.random()&&l.removeItem(b)}}}function r(a){g.querySelector(a)&&(m=!0,E(),a=g.querySelector(a)?.getBoundingClientRect().top??0,u([a,a+e.innerHeight]))}function E(){e.clearTimeout(H);H=e.setTimeout(()=>{m=!1},200)}let y=null,p=g.documentElement,m=!1,q=0,l={},H=0,v=[...g.querySelectorAll(`span[${h}-iframe]`)],x=0,F=0;try{l=e.localStorage}catch{}z&&r(z);m||u(D());C(e.addEventListener);e.navigation?.addEventListener("navigate",a=>{a=a.destination;a.sameDocument&&(a=/#[-\w]+$/.exec(a.url))&&r(a[0])})})(window,document,location.hash,"data-s9e-mediaembed","s9e-miniplayer")</script> <div class="p-breadcrumbs--parent p-breadcrumbs--bottom"> <ul class="p-breadcrumbs p-breadcrumbs--bottom" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/BreadcrumbList"> <li itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"> <a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/" itemprop="item"> <span itemprop="name">Forums</span> </a> <meta itemprop="position" content="1" /> </li> <li itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"> <a href="/#physics.9" itemprop="item"> <span itemprop="name">Physics</span> </a> <meta itemprop="position" content="2" /> </li> <li itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"> <a href="/forums/quantum-physics.62/" itemprop="item"> <span itemprop="name">Quantum Physics</span> </a> <meta itemprop="position" content="3" /> </li> <li itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"> <a href="/forums/quantum-interpretations-and-foundations.292/" itemprop="item"> <span itemprop="name">Quantum Interpretations and Foundations</span> </a> <meta itemprop="position" content="4" /> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div class="p-sidebarWrapper"> <div class="p-body-sidebar"> <div class="block" data-widget-id="64" data-widget-key="hotcontent" data-widget-definition="wte_thread_enhancement"> <div class="block-container"> <h3 class="block-minorHeader">Hot Threads</h3> <ul class="block-body"> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/forward-in-time-analysis-of-delayed-choice-entanglement-swapping.1078114/" title="Forward-in-time analysis of delayed-choice entanglement swapping" > <span class="prefix advanced" dir="auto">A</span><span class="label-append"> </span>Forward-in-time analysis of delayed-choice entanglement swapping </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/interpreting-photon-correlations-from-independent-sources.1067680/" title="Interpreting photon correlations from independent sources" > <span class="prefix advanced" dir="auto">A</span><span class="label-append"> </span>Interpreting photon correlations from independent sources </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/consistent-histories-and-locality.1067713/" title="Consistent Histories and Locality" > <span class="prefix advanced" dir="auto">A</span><span class="label-append"> </span>Consistent Histories and Locality </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/tumulka-on-bohmian-qed.1065742/" title="Tumulka on Bohmian QED" > <span class="prefix advanced" dir="auto">A</span><span class="label-append"> </span>Tumulka on Bohmian QED </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/non-local-preparation-in-entanglement-swapping-experiments.1067572/" title="Non-local preparation in entanglement swapping experiments" > <span class="prefix inter" dir="auto">I</span><span class="label-append"> </span>Non-local preparation in entanglement swapping experiments </a> </div> </div> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="block" data-widget-id="67" data-widget-key="recent_insights" data-widget-definition="wte_thread_enhancement"> <div class="block-container"> <h3 class="block-minorHeader">Recent Insights</h3> <ul class="block-body"> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/groups-the-path-from-a-simple-concept-to-mysterious-results.1078366/" title="Groups, The Path from a Simple Concept to Mysterious Results" > <span class="prefix insight" dir="auto">Insights</span><span class="label-append"> </span>Groups, The Path from a Simple Concept to Mysterious Results </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/a-possible-ai-modern-video-codec.1078212/" title="A Possible AI Modern Video Codec" > <span class="prefix insight" dir="auto">Insights</span><span class="label-append"> </span>A Possible AI Modern Video Codec </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/beyond-the-tidal-bulge.1067812/" title="Beyond the Tidal Bulge" > <span class="prefix insight" dir="auto">Insights</span><span class="label-append"> </span>Beyond the Tidal Bulge </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/the-many-faces-of-topology.1067326/" title="The Many Faces of Topology" > <span class="prefix insight" dir="auto">Insights</span><span class="label-append"> </span>The Many Faces of Topology </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/brownian-motions-and-quantifying-randomness-in-physical-systems.1065302/" title="Brownian Motions and Quantifying Randomness in Physical Systems" > <span class="prefix insight" dir="auto">Insights</span><span class="label-append"> </span>Brownian Motions and Quantifying Randomness in Physical Systems </a> </div> </div> </li> <li class="block-row"> <div class="contentRow"> <div class="contentRow-main contentRow-main--close"> <a href="/threads/pbs-video-comment-what-if-physics-is-not-describing-reality.1064523/" title="PBS Video Comment: “What If Physics IS NOT Describing Reality”" > <span class="prefix insight" dir="auto">Insights</span><span class="label-append"> </span>PBS Video Comment: “What If Physics IS NOT Describing Reality” </a> </div> </div> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div>  <footer class="p-footer" id="footer"> <div class="p-footer--container"> <div class="p-footer-default"> <div class="p-footer-inner"> <div class="p-footer-row"> <div class="p-footer-row-main"> <ul class="p-footer-linkList"> <li class="p-linkList-changeWidth"><a class="pageWidthToggle xb-toggle-default" role="button" tabindex="0" data-xf-click="toggle" data-target="html" data-active-class="xb-toggle-default" data-xf-init="toggle-storage" data-storage-type="cookie" data-storage-expiry="31556926" data-storage-key="_xb-width"> Change width </a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="p-footer-row-opposite"> <ul class="p-footer-linkList"> <li><a href="/misc/contact">Contact</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/about-physics-forums/">About</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/help/terms-of-service/">Terms</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.physicsforums.com/help/member-privacy-policy/">Privacy</a></li> <li><a href="/help/">Help</a></li> <li><a href="/forums/-/index.rss" target="_blank" class="p-footer-rssLink" title="RSS"><span aria-hidden="true"><i class="fa--xf fal fa-rss" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="u-srOnly">RSS</span></span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="p-footer-copyright"> <div class="p-footer-inner"> <div class="p-footer-copyright--flex"> <div class="copyright-left"> 2025 © Physics Forums, All Rights Reserved </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </footer> </div>  </div>  <div class="u-bottomFixer js-bottomFixTarget"> </div> <div class="u-navButtons js-navButtons" data-trigger-type="up"> <a href="javascript:" class="button--scroll button"><span class="button-text"><i class="fa--xf fal fa-arrow-left" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="u-srOnly">Back</span></span></a> </div> <div class="u-scrollButtons js-scrollButtons" data-trigger-type="up"> <a href="#top" class="button--scroll button" data-xf-click="scroll-to"><span class="button-text"><i class="fa--xf fal fa-arrow-up" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="u-srOnly">Top</span></span></a> </div> <script src="https://ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/libs/jquery/3.5.1/jquery.min.js"></script><script>window.jQuery || document.write('<script src="/js/vendor/jquery/jquery-3.5.1.min.js?_v=bab3e795"><\/script>')</script> <script src="/js/vendor/vendor-compiled.js?_v=bab3e795"></script> <script src="/js/xf/core-compiled.js?_v=bab3e795"></script> <script src="/js/xf/message.min.js?_v=bab3e795"></script> <script src="/js/xf/captcha.min.js?_v=bab3e795"></script> <script> var sb=$("div.shareButtons.shareButtons--iconic");if(sb.length){var o=new IntersectionObserver(function(a){a[0].isIntersecting&&($(".has-no-fa-brands").removeClass("has-no-fa-brands"),this.disconnect())},{rootMargin:"200px"});sb.each(function(){XF.isElementVisible($(this))&&$(".has-no-fa-brands").removeClass("has-no-fa-brands");o.observe($(this)[0])})}; </script> <script> if (typeof jqProxy !== 'undefined') { jQuery = jqProxy; } </script> <script> jQuery.extend(true, XF.config, { // xlink: { platformId: 0 }, userId: 0, enablePush: true, pushAppServerKey: 'BHawDCc5f/kxves/mySH6irZC+n8kQpwVp6mw8IItmRcI/R6qHIwbanIkiZvdq/o+uUlVEU0XDw0ctRSlmUne1w=', url: { fullBase: 'https://www.physicsforums.com/', basePath: '/', css: '/css.php?css=__SENTINEL__&s=12&l=1&d=1739902263', keepAlive: '/login/keep-alive' }, cookie: { path: '/', domain: '', prefix: 'xf_', secure: true, consentMode: 'disabled', consented: ["optional","_third_party"] }, cacheKey: '5b294bbaa713f807253e3ecfc1346fc2', csrf: '1739997692,8e6c10493d8df089d3f8154100db3dbf', js: {"\/js\/xf\/message.min.js?_v=bab3e795":true,"\/js\/xf\/captcha.min.js?_v=bab3e795":true}, css: {"public:bb_code.less":true,"public:message.less":true,"public:pf_first_post_rss.css":true,"public:physicsforums_badges.less":true,"public:share_controls.less":true,"public:structured_list.less":true,"public:thxpress_xf.less":true,"public:xb.less":true,"public:extra.less":true}, time: { now: 1739997692, today: 1739944800, todayDow: 3, tomorrow: 1740031200, yesterday: 1739858400, week: 1739426400 }, borderSizeFeature: '3px', fontAwesomeWeight: 'l', enableRtnProtect: true, enableFormSubmitSticky: true, uploadMaxFilesize: 62914560, allowedVideoExtensions: ["m4v","mov","mp4","mp4v","mpeg","mpg","ogv","webm"], allowedAudioExtensions: ["mp3","opus","ogg","wav"], shortcodeToEmoji: true, visitorCounts: { conversations_unread: '0', alerts_unviewed: '0', total_unread: '0', title_count: true, icon_indicator: true }, jsState: {}, publicMetadataLogoUrl: 'https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/physicsforums/images/physics-forums-logo-og.png', publicPushBadgeUrl: 'https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/default/xenforo/bell.png' }); jQuery.extend(XF.phrases, { // "svStandardLib_time.day": "{count} day", "svStandardLib_time.days": "{count} days", "svStandardLib_time.hour": "{count} hour", "svStandardLib_time.hours": "{count} hours", "svStandardLib_time.minute": "{count} minutes", "svStandardLib_time.minutes": "{count} minutes", "svStandardLib_time.month": "{count} month", "svStandardLib_time.months": "{count} months", "svStandardLib_time.second": "{count} second", "svStandardLib_time.seconds": "{count} seconds", "svStandardLib_time.week": "time.week", "svStandardLib_time.weeks": "{count} weeks", "svStandardLib_time.year": "{count} year", "svStandardLib_time.years": "{count} years", CMTV_Code_copied: "Code copied to clipboard.", date_x_at_time_y: "{date} at {time}", day_x_at_time_y: "{day}, {time}", yesterday_at_x: "Yesterday, {time}", x_minutes_ago: "{minutes} minutes ago", one_minute_ago: "1 minute ago", a_moment_ago: "A moment ago", today_at_x: "Today, {time}", in_a_moment: "In a moment", in_a_minute: "In a minute", in_x_minutes: "In {minutes} minutes", later_today_at_x: "Later today at {time}", tomorrow_at_x: "Tomorrow at {time}", day0: "Sunday", day1: "Monday", day2: "Tuesday", day3: "Wednesday", day4: "Thursday", day5: "Friday", day6: "Saturday", dayShort0: "Sun", dayShort1: "Mon", dayShort2: "Tue", dayShort3: "Wed", dayShort4: "Thu", dayShort5: "Fri", dayShort6: "Sat", month0: "January", month1: "February", month2: "March", month3: "April", month4: "May", month5: "June", month6: "July", month7: "August", month8: "September", month9: "October", month10: "November", month11: "December", active_user_changed_reload_page: "The active user has changed. Reload the page for the latest version.", server_did_not_respond_in_time_try_again: "The server did not respond in time. Please try again.", oops_we_ran_into_some_problems: "Oops! We ran into some problems.", oops_we_ran_into_some_problems_more_details_console: "Oops! We ran into some problems. Please try again later. More error details may be in the browser console.", file_too_large_to_upload: "The file is too large to be uploaded.", uploaded_file_is_too_large_for_server_to_process: "The uploaded file is too large for the server to process.", files_being_uploaded_are_you_sure: "Files are still being uploaded. Are you sure you want to submit this form?", attach: "Attach files", rich_text_box: "Rich text box", close: "Close", link_copied_to_clipboard: "Link copied to clipboard.", text_copied_to_clipboard: "Text copied to clipboard.", loading: "Loading…", you_have_exceeded_maximum_number_of_selectable_items: "You have exceeded the maximum number of selectable items.", processing: "Processing", 'processing...': "Processing…", showing_x_of_y_items: "Showing {count} of {total} items", showing_all_items: "Showing all items", no_items_to_display: "No items to display", number_button_up: "Increase", number_button_down: "Decrease", push_enable_notification_title: "Push notifications enabled successfully at Physics Forums: Science Discussion, Homework Help, Articles", push_enable_notification_body: "Thank you for enabling push notifications!", pull_down_to_refresh: "Pull down to refresh", release_to_refresh: "Release to refresh", refreshing: "Refreshing…" }); </script> <form style="display:none" hidden="hidden"> <input type="text" name="_xfClientLoadTime" value="" id="_xfClientLoadTime" title="_xfClientLoadTime" tabindex="-1" /> </form>  <script type="application/ld+json"> { "@context": "https://schema.org", "@type": "WebPage", "url": "https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/", "mainEntity": { "@type": "DiscussionForumPosting", "@id": "https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/", "headline": "No conspiracy and superdeterminism", "datePublished": "2024-11-30T18:27:40+00:00", "keywords": "Entanglement, Variables", "url": "https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/no-conspiracy-and-superdeterminism.1067203/", "articleSection": "Quantum Interpretations and Foundations", "author": { "@type": "Person", "@id": "https://www.physicsforums.com/members/junespring25.701886/", "name": "JuneSpring25", "url": "https://www.physicsforums.com/members/junespring25.701886/" }, "interactionStatistic": [ { "@type": "InteractionCounter", "interactionType": "https://schema.org/ViewAction", "userInteractionCount": 560 }, { "@type": "InteractionCounter", "interactionType": "https://schema.org/CommentAction", "userInteractionCount": 8 }, { "@type": "InteractionCounter", "interactionType": "https://schema.org/LikeAction", "userInteractionCount": 0 } ], "articleBody": "Hello,\n\nI found this paper by Tim Palmer really interesting, about trying to develop a determinist, hidden variables model that doesn't need 'conspiracy' to explain away experimental results around entanglement\n\nhttps://www.researchgate.net/publication/377513673_Superdeterminism_without_Conspiracy\n\nCan anyone explain in more simple terms how Tim Palmer deals with the entanglement problem wtihout needing there to be some bizarre way of correlating the measurement device settings?" }, "publisher": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "Physics Forums: Science Discussion, Homework Help, Articles", "alternateName": "Physics Forums", "description": "Join Physics Forums, where students, scientists, and enthusiasts come together to explore and discuss the current understanding and practice of various scientific fields.", "url": "https://www.physicsforums.com", "logo": "https://www.physicsforums.com/styles/physicsforums/images/physics-forums-logo-og.png" } } </script> <script type="text/javascript" src="https://www.physicsforums.com/copyright.js" defer></script> <script> function parseNewPost(postid) { var newpost = document.getElementById("js-post-" + postid), npa = [newpost]; MathJax.typeset(npa); } function parsePreview() { var preview = document.getElementsByClassName("xfPreview"); MathJax.typeset(preview); } function parseNewConversationPost(postid) { var newpost = document.getElementsByClassName("convMessage-" + postid); MathJax.typeset(newpost); } function parseNewProfilePost(postid) { var newpost = document.getElementById("js-profilePost-" + postid), npa = [newpost]; MathJax.typeset(npa); } function parseTooltip() { MathJax.typeset(); } </script> </body> </html>

CINXE.COM

No conspiracy and superdeterminism