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.talkheader-shortcuts{display:flex;align-items:center;padding:0.1em}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help{flex:2 1 auto;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#ffffff);color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies+.talkheader-policies{border-left:1px solid #c0c090}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{flex:0 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts>*{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help ul,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies ul{margin:0.1em 0.8em 0 1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" title="Wikipedia:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation">2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation</a> page.<br/></td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" title="Special:NewSection/Wikipedia talk:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? Welcome! <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">Learn to edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">get help</a>.</li></ul> </div> <div class="talkheader-policies"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Be polite</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">avoid personal attacks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">Be welcoming to newcomers</a></li> <li>Seek <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">dispute resolution</a> if needed</li></ul> </div> </div> </td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">Archives</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation/Archive_1" title="Wikipedia talk:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation/Archive 1">1</a><span style="position: relative; top: 2px; float: right; font-size: 90%; margin-left: 1em;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1038841319">.mw-parser-output .tooltip-dotted{border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help}</style><span class="rt-commentedText tooltip tooltip-dotted" title="Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III after 7 days of inactivity when more than 4 threads are present.">Auto-archiving period</span>: <b>7 days</b> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page#Automated_archiving" title="Help:Archiving a talk page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/16px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/24px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/32px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></a></span></span></td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Wikipedia talk:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_English_Wikipedia_community_+" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_English_Wikipedia_community_+-20241107225400"><span id="The_English_Wikipedia_community_.2B"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_English_Wikipedia_community_+-20241107225400"></span>The English Wikipedia community +<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_English_Wikipedia_community_+-20241107225400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: The English Wikipedia community +"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Le_Loy-20241107225400-The_English_Wikipedia_community_+"></span>I would like to propose to expand the scope to other projects and language editions. Ruwiki's community is VERY DEEPLY concerned by this case for obvious reasons. <a href="/wiki/User:Le_Loy" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Le Loy">Le Loy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Le_Loy" title="User talk:Le Loy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Le_Loy-20241107225400-The_English_Wikipedia_community_+" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Le_Loy-20241107225400-The_English_Wikipedia_community_+"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Le_Loy-20241107225400-The_English_Wikipedia_community_+"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241107233900-Le_Loy-20241107225400"></span>How about orchestrating signed translations? The list could then be compiled together. <a href="/wiki/User:CommunityNotesContributor" title="User:CommunityNotesContributor">CNC</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CommunityNotesContributor" title="User talk:CommunityNotesContributor">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241107233900-Le_Loy-20241107225400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241107233900-Le_Loy-20241107225400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241107233900-Le_Loy-20241107225400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Grnrchst-20241108140700-CommunityNotesContributor-20241107233900"></span>I went ahead and did a translation into Spanish:</dd> <dd><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1244412712">.mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 32px}.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;margin-top:0}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{padding-left:1.6em}}</style><blockquote class="templatequote"><p>Desde la comunidad de Wikipedia, hemos seguido los eventos recientes del caso Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation con trepidación. En un mundo donde muchas entidades querrían controlar el contenido de los artículos de la Wikipedia, consideramos que la protección del anonimato es esencial para mantener una enciclopedia amplia, fiable y neutral. Nuestros millones de contribuidores voluntarios esperan que la Fundación les defienda contra entidades externas poderosas mientras trabajan, buscando un equilibrio entre lo que las fuentes disponibles han escrito sobre el tema.<br/>En vista de ello, nosotros, los abajo firmantes, estamos profundamente preocupados por la posibilidad de que la Fundación esté considerando divulgar información privada sobre editores voluntarios al Tribunal Supremo de Delhi. Comprendemos las complejidades de las disputas internacionales legales sobre la divulgación de esta información, y apreciamos que la Fundación se oponga rutinariamente a la divulgación de datos personales y asista a los editores que se encuentran en peligro legal. No obstante, pedimos a la Fundación que priorice la seguridad y bienestar de nuestros voluntarios, aunque acarree riesgo de acciones legales contra la Fundación u otros costes. Cualquier otra acción se arriesga a tener un efecto paralizador en el trabajo de los voluntarios en todo el proyecto, y solo hace mas probable que presiones como estas puedan ser ejercidas en el futuro. En resumen, pone en peligro el futuro de nuestro proyecto compartido.</p></blockquote></dd> <dd>How should we go about sharing translations? Should we make a page on other language Wikipedias? Or add this to a comment box under the letter? --<a href="/wiki/User:Grnrchst" title="User:Grnrchst">Grnrchst</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Grnrchst" title="User talk:Grnrchst">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Grnrchst-20241108140700-CommunityNotesContributor-20241107233900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:07, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Grnrchst-20241108140700-CommunityNotesContributor-20241107233900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Grnrchst-20241108140700-CommunityNotesContributor-20241107233900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robertsky-20241109014900-Grnrchst-20241108140700"></span>One way is to shift this letter to meta, and then using the translation feature there. Then we can see a consolidated pool of signatures as everyone signs. Optionally, we then can apply for a central banner to push out the letter to all communities hosted on Wikimedia architecture. However it may lose the traction we see on local wiki projects.</dd> <dd>The alternative is to host on local projects, use wikidata to link the translated texts together, and at a predetermined time, pool the signatures together somewhere on meta, removing duplicates. <a href="/wiki/User:Robertsky" title="User:Robertsky">– robertsky</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robertsky" title="User talk:Robertsky">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Robertsky-20241109014900-Grnrchst-20241108140700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robertsky-20241109014900-Grnrchst-20241108140700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robertsky-20241109014900-Grnrchst-20241108140700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Espresso_Addict-20241109095200-Robertsky-20241109014900"></span>For what it's worth, I'm opposed to moving this letter to meta because many English Wikipedia editors (me for one) don't visit meta at all. The immediate situation seems to directly affect English Wikipedia editors, although broader support from other 'pedias is of course extremely welcome. <a href="/wiki/User:Espresso_Addict" title="User:Espresso Addict">Espresso Addict</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Espresso_Addict" title="User talk:Espresso Addict">talk</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Espresso_Addict-20241109095200-Robertsky-20241109014900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Espresso_Addict-20241109095200-Robertsky-20241109014900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Espresso_Addict-20241109095200-Robertsky-20241109014900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109115900-Robertsky-20241109014900"></span>Is it not possible for meta to transclude from en wiki? Surely it should be. I agree with above comment that moving this letter to meta is a bad idea, as many editors don't use it and will likely be put off. Ideally meta wiki could do a meta-based job of collating transclusions of the letter's translations and signatures from different lang wikis to act as a central hub in a decentralized way (for the benefit of all editors of local langs), rather than centralizing this letter to meta directly. Thoughts? <a href="/wiki/User:CommunityNotesContributor" title="User:CommunityNotesContributor">CNC</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CommunityNotesContributor" title="User talk:CommunityNotesContributor">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109115900-Robertsky-20241109014900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:59, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109115900-Robertsky-20241109014900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109115900-Robertsky-20241109014900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robertsky-20241109121700-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109115900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:CommunityNotesContributor" title="User:CommunityNotesContributor">CommunityNotesContributor</a> nope. the option is not enabled for wikiemdia wikis, I think for performance purposes. <a href="/wiki/User:Robertsky" title="User:Robertsky">– robertsky</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robertsky" title="User talk:Robertsky">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Robertsky-20241109121700-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109115900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:17, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robertsky-20241109121700-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109115900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robertsky-20241109121700-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109115900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109122500-Robertsky-20241109121700"></span>If performance related, from pulling data from different language wikis, then wouldn't the solution be to avoid live transclusions, and use an internal meta copy that is updated (from a transclusion) say every hour or so? Then at least meta would only be "live" transcluding from itself, rather than different sites, if that makes any sense? <a href="/wiki/User:CommunityNotesContributor" title="User:CommunityNotesContributor">CNC</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CommunityNotesContributor" title="User talk:CommunityNotesContributor">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109122500-Robertsky-20241109121700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:25, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109122500-Robertsky-20241109121700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109122500-Robertsky-20241109121700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robertsky-20241109125200-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109122500"></span>That's a discussion for the devs. There have been attempts to enable it, but nothing has transpired yet. <a href="/wiki/User:Robertsky" title="User:Robertsky">– robertsky</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robertsky" title="User talk:Robertsky">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Robertsky-20241109125200-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109122500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:52, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robertsky-20241109125200-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109122500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robertsky-20241109125200-CommunityNotesContributor-20241109122500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-20241108005800-Le_Loy-20241107225400"></span>I think the English Wikipedia community would be more than happy to cooperate with ruwiki (and any other similarly situated communities, such as zhwiki), if they would like us to, on joint statements. I know I'd certainly be willing to do that. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Seraphimblade-20241108005800-Le_Loy-20241107225400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:58, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-20241108005800-Le_Loy-20241107225400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-20241108005800-Le_Loy-20241107225400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mathglot-20241109050000-Le_Loy-20241107225400"></span>I have already created a <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:R%C3%A9ponse_de_la_communaut%C3%A9_Wikip%C3%A9dia_%C3%A0_l%27affaire_Asian_News_International_contre_Wikimedia_Foundation" class="extiw" title="fr:Wikipédia:Réponse de la communauté Wikipédia à l'affaire Asian News International contre Wikimedia Foundation">summary page</a> at French Wikipedia, and linked it via Wikidata link to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANIGATE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANIGATE">WP:ANIGATE</a> page and started a section there <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANIGATE#Other_Wikipedias" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANIGATE">§ Other Wikipedias</a> which I imagined would have a similar function with bullets per language. But the idea of moving it to Meta with inlinks from here and elsewhere seems like a better one. <a href="/wiki/User:%D0%9B%D0%B5_%D0%9B%D0%BE%D0%B9" title="User:Ле Лой">Ле Лой</a>, please provide link(s) to the Russian discussions; I didn't see anything relevant in your ru-wiki history. <a href="/wiki/User:Mathglot" title="User:Mathglot">Mathglot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mathglot" title="User talk:Mathglot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Mathglot-20241109050000-Le_Loy-20241107225400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mathglot-20241109050000-Le_Loy-20241107225400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mathglot-20241109050000-Le_Loy-20241107225400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Le_Loy-20241109104900-Mathglot-20241109050000"></span>It's not surprising that you can't see anything relevant because I didn't participate in any :-)<br/>There is a big ongoing discussion on our news forum: <a class="external free" href="https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедия:Форум/Новости#Фонд_удалил_статью_анвики_по_предварительному_требованию_индийского_суда">https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Википедия:Форум/Новости#Фонд_удалил_статью_анвики_по_предварительному_требованию_индийского_суда</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Le_Loy" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Le Loy">Le Loy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Le_Loy" title="User talk:Le Loy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Le_Loy-20241109104900-Mathglot-20241109050000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:49, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Le_Loy-20241109104900-Mathglot-20241109050000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Le_Loy-20241109104900-Mathglot-20241109050000"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Compassionate727-20241111014600-Le_Loy-20241107225400"></span>Translation efforts aside, I think any interested persons should feel free to sign here, regardless of whether they frequently (or ever) edit here. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">—<a href="/wiki/User:Compassionate727" title="User:Compassionate727">Compassionate727</a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Compassionate727" title="User talk:Compassionate727">T</a>·<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Compassionate727" title="Special:Contributions/Compassionate727">C</a>)</sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Compassionate727-20241111014600-Le_Loy-20241107225400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:46, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Compassionate727-20241111014600-Le_Loy-20241107225400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Compassionate727-20241111014600-Le_Loy-20241107225400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-QuicoleJR-20241111220100-Compassionate727-20241111014600"></span>+1. I have no objections to anyone who only edits other wikis signing the petition, and I would actually encourage it, as their opinion matters as much as anyone else's. <a href="/wiki/User:QuicoleJR" title="User:QuicoleJR">QuicoleJR</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:QuicoleJR" title="User talk:QuicoleJR">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-QuicoleJR-20241111220100-Compassionate727-20241111014600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:01, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-QuicoleJR-20241111220100-Compassionate727-20241111014600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-QuicoleJR-20241111220100-Compassionate727-20241111014600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alien333-20241119204800-Compassionate727-20241111014600"></span>+1. I'm tbh more of a wikisourcerer than of a wikipedian, and we tend to have less trouble than you do, but still, doesn't prevent us from sympathising. — <a href="/wiki/User:Alien333" title="User:Alien333">Alien</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alien333" title="User talk:Alien333"><b style="display:inline-block;line-height:100%;font-size:60%;background-image:linear-gradient(90deg,#007,#077,#070);background-clip:text;color:transparent"> 3<br/>3 3</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Alien333-20241119204800-Compassionate727-20241111014600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alien333-20241119204800-Compassionate727-20241111014600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alien333-20241119204800-Compassionate727-20241111014600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Almost_400_signatures" data-mw-thread-id="h-Almost_400_signatures-20241109024800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Almost_400_signatures-20241109024800"></span>Almost 400 signatures<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Almost_400_signatures-20241109024800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Almost 400 signatures"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ratnahastin-20241109024800-Almost_400_signatures"></span>Almost 400 signatures signed by established editors and multiple admins. Perhaps it's time for WMF to make a statement on the situation. <a href="/wiki/User:Ratnahastin" title="User:Ratnahastin"><span style="color:#A52A2A;">Ratnahastin</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ratnahastin" title="User talk:Ratnahastin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Ratnahastin-20241109024800-Almost_400_signatures" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:48, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ratnahastin-20241109024800-Almost_400_signatures"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ratnahastin-20241109024800-Almost_400_signatures"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Djano_Chained-20241109141000-Ratnahastin-20241109024800"></span>Somebody tag WMFOffice please <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Djano_Chained&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Djano Chained (page does not exist)">Djano Chained</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Djano_Chained" title="User talk:Djano Chained">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Djano_Chained-20241109141000-Ratnahastin-20241109024800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Djano_Chained-20241109141000-Ratnahastin-20241109024800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Djano_Chained-20241109141000-Ratnahastin-20241109024800"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cremastra-20241109151200-Ratnahastin-20241109024800"></span>400+ now. At the present rate of growth, I estimate we'll have 500+ signatures in a little more than ten hours, but it'll probably slow a bit, so make it twelve or so. In the last ten hours, we've had an average of 5 new sigs/hr. In the <i>first</i> ten hours after the signature opened, that was closer to 18. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cremastra" title="User talk:Cremastra"><i>Cremastra</i></a> (<a href="/wiki/User:Cremastra" title="User:Cremastra">u</a> — <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cremastra" title="Special:Contributions/Cremastra">c</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Cremastra-20241109151200-Ratnahastin-20241109024800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cremastra-20241109151200-Ratnahastin-20241109024800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cremastra-20241109151200-Ratnahastin-20241109024800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Carlinal-20241109153300-Cremastra-20241109151200"></span>I'll get ahead and ask this, would there be a moment where we have to make a subsequent page or two of these signatures, to prevent lagging? I'm happy regardless of the wide support. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlinal" title="User:Carlinal">Carlinal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlinal" title="User talk:Carlinal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Carlinal-20241109153300-Cremastra-20241109151200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Carlinal-20241109153300-Cremastra-20241109151200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Carlinal-20241109153300-Cremastra-20241109151200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cremastra-20241109162800-Carlinal-20241109153300"></span>Looking at the precedents (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPPWMF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPPWMF">WP:NPPWMF</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SOPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SOPA">WP:SOPA</a>), I don't think that's necessary yet. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cremastra" title="User talk:Cremastra"><i>Cremastra</i></a> (<a href="/wiki/User:Cremastra" title="User:Cremastra">u</a> — <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Cremastra" title="Special:Contributions/Cremastra">c</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Cremastra-20241109162800-Carlinal-20241109153300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cremastra-20241109162800-Carlinal-20241109153300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cremastra-20241109162800-Carlinal-20241109153300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Isaacl-20241109180500-Carlinal-20241109153300"></span>If you're concerned about page load time, the page size is currently about 65,000 bytes. There's a lot of room for growth. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Isaacl&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Isaacl (page does not exist)">isaacl</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Isaacl" title="User talk:Isaacl">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Isaacl-20241109180500-Carlinal-20241109153300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:05, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Isaacl-20241109180500-Carlinal-20241109153300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Isaacl-20241109180500-Carlinal-20241109153300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Martinevans123-20241113100500-Isaacl-20241109180500"></span>Now 800, which seems quite impressive. <a href="/wiki/User:Martinevans123" title="User:Martinevans123">Martinevans123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Martinevans123" title="User talk:Martinevans123">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Martinevans123-20241113100500-Isaacl-20241109180500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:05, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Martinevans123-20241113100500-Isaacl-20241109180500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Martinevans123-20241113100500-Isaacl-20241109180500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TrademarkedTWOrantula-20241116061500-Martinevans123-20241113100500"></span>Make that 900... <small> and close to 1000, as I speak. wow</small> <a href="/wiki/User:TrademarkedTWOrantula" title="User:TrademarkedTWOrantula"><span style="color: darkgreen"><span style="font-family: Georgia">TWOrantula</span></span></a><sup><small>TM</small></sup> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TrademarkedTWOrantula" title="User talk:TrademarkedTWOrantula">enter the web</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-TrademarkedTWOrantula-20241116061500-Martinevans123-20241113100500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:15, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TrademarkedTWOrantula-20241116061500-Martinevans123-20241113100500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TrademarkedTWOrantula-20241116061500-Martinevans123-20241113100500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Martinevans123-20241119091500-TrademarkedTWOrantula-20241116061500"></span>No <a href="/wiki/Category:Times_that_1100_Wikipedians_supported_something" title="Category:Times that 1100 Wikipedians supported something">Category:Times that 1100 Wikipedians supported something</a> yet! <a href="/wiki/User:Martinevans123" title="User:Martinevans123">Martinevans123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Martinevans123" title="User talk:Martinevans123">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Martinevans123-20241119091500-TrademarkedTWOrantula-20241116061500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Martinevans123-20241119091500-TrademarkedTWOrantula-20241116061500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Martinevans123-20241119091500-TrademarkedTWOrantula-20241116061500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Martinevans123-20241119115200-Martinevans123-20241119091500"></span>That didn't take long... <a href="/wiki/User:Martinevans123" title="User:Martinevans123">Martinevans123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Martinevans123" title="User talk:Martinevans123">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Martinevans123-20241119115200-Martinevans123-20241119091500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:52, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Martinevans123-20241119115200-Martinevans123-20241119091500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Martinevans123-20241119115200-Martinevans123-20241119091500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Carlinal-20241120175000-Martinevans123-20241119091500"></span>🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 <a href="/wiki/User:Carlinal" title="User:Carlinal">Carlinal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlinal" title="User talk:Carlinal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Carlinal-20241120175000-Martinevans123-20241119091500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Carlinal-20241120175000-Martinevans123-20241119091500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Carlinal-20241120175000-Martinevans123-20241119091500"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Martinevans123" title="User:Martinevans123"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ClaudineChionh-20241122004700-Martinevans123-20241119091500"></span>Martinevans123</a>: note it's now up for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_20#Category:Times_that_1100_Wikipedians_supported_something" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 November 20">CfD</a> and I'm not going to create one for 1,200.<span id="ClaudineChionh:1732236439567:Wikipedia_talkFTTCLN2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation" class="FTTCmt"> — <b><a href="/wiki/User:ClaudineChionh" title="User:ClaudineChionh">ClaudineChionh</a></b> <small>(<i>she/her</i> · <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ClaudineChionh" title="User talk:ClaudineChionh">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ClaudineChionh" title="Special:Contributions/ClaudineChionh">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/ClaudineChionh" title="Special:EmailUser/ClaudineChionh">email</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:ClaudineChionh" class="extiw" title="m:User:ClaudineChionh">global</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-ClaudineChionh-20241122004700-Martinevans123-20241119091500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:47, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ClaudineChionh-20241122004700-Martinevans123-20241119091500"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ClaudineChionh-20241122004700-Martinevans123-20241119091500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Update_from_14_November_hearing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Update_from_14_November_hearing-20241114131000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Update_from_14_November_hearing-20241114131000"></span>Update from 14 November hearing<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Update_from_14_November_hearing-20241114131000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Update from 14 November hearing"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p>After going through the Division Bench order, Justice Prasad [who is hearing the defamation suit] ordered the High Court Registry to comply with the mandate of the consent terms recorded in it. </p><p>"Let summons be issued to defendants 2-4. <u>The summons can be served through all permissible modes ... including email addresses</u> to be supplied by the defendant 1 [Wikipedia]," the Court ordered. <b>The counsel representing Wikipedia clarified that the email ids will be supplied in a sealed cover.</b> Wikipedia has to serve the summons in four days as per the court order. </p><p>The matter will be heard next on December 16. </p><p>-- <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.barandbench.com/news/delhi-high-court-issues-summons-wikipedia-users-ani-defamation-suit">https://www.barandbench.com/news/delhi-high-court-issues-summons-wikipedia-users-ani-defamation-suit</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Comment" data-mw-thread-id="h-Comment-Update_from_14_November_hearing-20241114131000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Comment-Update_from_14_November_hearing-20241114131000"></span>Comment<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Comment-Update_from_14_November_hearing-20241114131000"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Comment"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Upd_Edit-20241114131000-Comment"></span>I understand that there is fog of war and we need to trust WMF <u>but we can be certain about at least one thing</u>: </p><p><big><b>WMF IS DISCLOSING THE EMAIL ADDRESSES OF THREE EDITORS TO THE COURT IN A SEALED COVER</b>.</big> </p><p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Upd_Edit&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Upd Edit (page does not exist)">Upd Edit</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Upd_Edit" title="User talk:Upd Edit">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Upd_Edit-20241114131000-Comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:10, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Upd_Edit-20241114131000-Comment"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Upd_Edit-20241114131000-Comment"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114144400-Upd_Edit-20241114131000"></span>Yeah, thats in the news. Thats so sad <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zubehamoreha&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zubehamoreha (page does not exist)">Zubehamoreha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zubehamoreha" title="User talk:Zubehamoreha">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Zubehamoreha-20241114144400-Upd_Edit-20241114131000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114144400-Upd_Edit-20241114131000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114144400-Upd_Edit-20241114131000"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ipigott-20241114155800-Zubehamoreha-20241114144400"></span>Can anyone reveal the significance of revealing the email addresses to the court in a "sealed cover"?--<a href="/wiki/User:Ipigott" title="User:Ipigott">Ipigott</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ipigott" title="User talk:Ipigott">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Ipigott-20241114155800-Zubehamoreha-20241114144400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ipigott-20241114155800-Zubehamoreha-20241114144400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ipigott-20241114155800-Zubehamoreha-20241114144400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000-Ipigott-20241114155800"></span>It means the identity of the editors are not made public. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zubehamoreha&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zubehamoreha (page does not exist)">Zubehamoreha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zubehamoreha" title="User talk:Zubehamoreha">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000-Ipigott-20241114155800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000-Ipigott-20241114155800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000-Ipigott-20241114155800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000"></span>For a while <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zubehamoreha&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zubehamoreha (page does not exist)">Zubehamoreha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zubehamoreha" title="User talk:Zubehamoreha">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000-Zubehamoreha-20241114160000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><ul><li><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Silver_seren-20241114220600-Ipigott-20241114155800"></span>It means that technically only the judge and court officials get to see them. But I don't think any of us trust the court in question to not have someone leak the information to the prosecution regardless. Not with the influence ANI clearly has (being a government propaganda outlet) on the entire Indian court system. <a href="/wiki/User:Silver_seren" title="User:Silver seren"><span style="color: dimgrey;">Silver</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Silver_seren" title="User talk:Silver seren"><span style="color: blue;">seren</span></a><sup><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Silver_seren" title="Special:Contributions/Silver seren">C</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Silver_seren-20241114220600-Ipigott-20241114155800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Silver_seren-20241114220600-Ipigott-20241114155800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Silver_seren-20241114220600-Ipigott-20241114155800"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Phil_Bridger-20241115145000-Silver_seren-20241114220600"></span>A Google search for "sealed cover" finds loads of information about manhole covers and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.drishtiias.com/daily-updates/daily-news-analysis/sealed-cover-jurisprudence-1">this</a>, which appears to be a blog from an education provider. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Phil_Bridger-20241115145000-Silver_seren-20241114220600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Phil_Bridger-20241115145000-Silver_seren-20241114220600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Phil_Bridger-20241115145000-Silver_seren-20241114220600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20241118040700-Phil_Bridger-20241115145000"></span>Excuse me, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Upd_Edit&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Upd Edit (page does not exist)">Upd Edit</a>, but you are a brand new account with 5 edits who is making a lot of noise on this talk page. How do we even know that you are an editor in good standing here? You have 0 global contributions besides those 5 edits to this page. Have you previously done any serious editing on this project or another Wikimedia project under another username? Or are you just coming here to express your general outrage? Same question to you, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zubehamoreha&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zubehamoreha (page does not exist)">Zubehamoreha</a>. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Liz-20241118040700-Phil_Bridger-20241115145000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:07, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20241118040700-Phil_Bridger-20241115145000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20241118040700-Phil_Bridger-20241115145000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WP_editor_mulling_quitting_wikipedia" data-mw-thread-id="h-WP_editor_mulling_quitting_wikipedia-20241114144800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WP_editor_mulling_quitting_wikipedia-20241114144800"></span>WP editor mulling quitting wikipedia<span data-mw-comment-end="h-WP_editor_mulling_quitting_wikipedia-20241114144800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: WP editor mulling quitting wikipedia"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114144800-WP_editor_mulling_quitting_wikipedia"></span>The recent development is quite depressing and frightening. Concerning their safety, one editor I spoke with today decided to stop editing Wikipedia. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zubehamoreha&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zubehamoreha (page does not exist)">Zubehamoreha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zubehamoreha" title="User talk:Zubehamoreha">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Zubehamoreha-20241114144800-WP_editor_mulling_quitting_wikipedia" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114144800-WP_editor_mulling_quitting_wikipedia"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zubehamoreha-20241114144800-WP_editor_mulling_quitting_wikipedia"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Liz-20241118041200-Zubehamoreha-20241114144800"></span>Since you have only been a registered editor for a week, I'm surprised you have already formed relationships with other editors here. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Liz-20241118041200-Zubehamoreha-20241114144800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:12, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Liz-20241118041200-Zubehamoreha-20241114144800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Liz-20241118041200-Zubehamoreha-20241114144800"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Making_sure_I_understand_the_current_status_of_what_is_happening_..." data-mw-thread-id="h-Making_sure_I_understand_the_current_status_of_what_is_happening_...-20241114193600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Making_sure_I_understand_the_current_status_of_what_is_happening_...-20241114193600"></span>Making sure I understand the current status of what is happening ...<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Making_sure_I_understand_the_current_status_of_what_is_happening_...-20241114193600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Making sure I understand the current status of what is happening ..."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steel1943-20241114193600-Making_sure_I_understand_the_current_status_of_what_is_happening_..."></span>So, WMF agreed to provide the information being requested to identify the editors, and now the New Delhi court has issued summons for the editors involved? Is this correct? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)"><span style="color: #3F00FF;"><i><b>Steel1943</b></i></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Steel1943-20241114193600-Making_sure_I_understand_the_current_status_of_what_is_happening_..." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steel1943-20241114193600-Making_sure_I_understand_the_current_status_of_what_is_happening_..."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steel1943-20241114193600-Making_sure_I_understand_the_current_status_of_what_is_happening_..."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400-Steel1943-20241114193600"></span>To my knowledge, WMF hasn't <i>agreed</i> to hand over information, but they are considering it, and they have a short time (3-4 days) until the deadline to respond is. — <a href="/wiki/User:BerryForPerpetuity" title="User:BerryForPerpetuity"><span style="download;font-family:Noto Sans Mono, Verdana">BerryForPerpetuity</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BerryForPerpetuity" title="User talk:BerryForPerpetuity"><span style="">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400-Steel1943-20241114193600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400-Steel1943-20241114193600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400-Steel1943-20241114193600"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steel1943-20241114202500-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:BerryForPerpetuity" title="User:BerryForPerpetuity">BerryForPerpetuity</a>:</span> An article I found published on 14 October 2024 states Wikimedia refused, but an article published 28 October 2024 states they will comply and provide the information: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://scroll.in/latest/1075009/wikipedia-agrees-to-share-with-delhi-hc-information-about-users-who-edited-anis-page">[1]</a> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)"><span style="color: #3F00FF;"><i><b>Steel1943</b></i></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Steel1943-20241114202500-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:25, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steel1943-20241114202500-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steel1943-20241114202500-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Carlinal-20241114214300-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400"></span>Could you counter what <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Upd_Edit&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Upd Edit (page does not exist)">Upd Edit</a> said in <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Comment">an above section about their decision</a>? Upd seems to be spouting bull, with all due respect. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlinal" title="User:Carlinal">Carlinal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlinal" title="User talk:Carlinal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Carlinal-20241114214300-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Carlinal-20241114214300-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Carlinal-20241114214300-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114194400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114222600-Carlinal-20241114214300"></span>Take my input with a grain of salt, as I don't know the details as well as I'd like. I'm also not here to 'counter' anyone. That being said, I don't think he's intentionally lying, but he is wrong. He cites Bar&Bench, and per Jimbo on 11 November: "<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">Some people in this thread are misreading the news from Bar&Bench up above, assuming that it means that the WMF has disclosed user identities. This is not correct at all. No user information has been disclosed.</q>"</dd> <dd>Also, from <a href="/wiki/User:Quiddity_(WMF)" title="User:Quiddity (WMF)">User:Quiddity (WMF)</a> today (November 14): "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Jimmy's update from 11 November remains true – no user information has been disclosed</q>" I don't believe anyone has any reason to believe they'd actively lie about this. — <a href="/wiki/User:BerryForPerpetuity" title="User:BerryForPerpetuity"><span style="download;font-family:Noto Sans Mono, Verdana">BerryForPerpetuity</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BerryForPerpetuity" title="User talk:BerryForPerpetuity"><span style="">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114222600-Carlinal-20241114214300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114222600-Carlinal-20241114214300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114222600-Carlinal-20241114214300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-20241114223100-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114222600"></span>The problem is if we wait for them to disclose the information, the harm has been done. The WMF loses control over it the second they release the information, even under seal. This judge has already shown they don’t care that this is an obvious SLAPP lawsuit that will be thrown out. So what’s stopping the judge from accepting it under seal and then allowing the lawsuit to proceed against the individuals? Or releasing the individual’s identities to ANI to file individual suits against the editors? The answer is nothing. The time to stop it is before the cat is out of the bag. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">me</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">talk to me!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Berchanhimez-20241114223100-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114222600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-20241114223100-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114222600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-20241114223100-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114222600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800-Berchanhimez-20241114223100"></span>Thank you, and let me add this for further clarity: I am saying, speaking only for myself and not for the board and not for the WMF, but being privy to discussions, I am not worried and I'm telling everyone that a blackout of this type is unnecessary/premature/misguided, etc. People stating confidently things that aren't consistent with what I know to be true are mistaken and should relax a notch or two.--<a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo Wales</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales" title="User talk:Jimbo Wales">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800-Berchanhimez-20241114223100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800-Berchanhimez-20241114223100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800-Berchanhimez-20241114223100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-20241114225700-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800"></span>When is it not premature? After we have confirmation the information was released and thus the cat is out of the bag, and a precedent set that the WMF will consider catering to SLAPP lawsuits?</dd> <dd>There is only one outcome that should be acceptable. The WMF refuses to participate in this kangaroo court proceeding - even if it comes at the expense of their operations or the site’s availability in India. If this judge refuses to entertain the arguments, it is <b>NOT</b> acceptable to throw the three editors under the bus personally on the off chance the WMF may win on appeal. The damage to those three editors and the chilling effect on other potential or real editors who aren’t willing to even let it get to that point will never be undone once the information is released - regardless of a win on appeal. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">me</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">talk to me!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Berchanhimez-20241114225700-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-20241114225700-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-20241114225700-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115135000-Berchanhimez-20241114225700"></span>You keep arguing, but I'm telling you repeatedly that you are mistaken about the thinking at the WMF, you are mistaken about what is going on. So you're arguing against a straw man. Probably now would be a good time to put down the stick. <a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo Wales</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales" title="User talk:Jimbo Wales">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115135000-Berchanhimez-20241114225700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:50, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115135000-Berchanhimez-20241114225700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115135000-Berchanhimez-20241114225700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-20241115141300-Jimbo_Wales-20241115135000"></span>You’re telling me I’m mistaken, but not how. So again, how am I mistaken? Has the WMF perjured itself by asking for a consent order (which was accepted) in which they agreed to release the information, when they never had any intent to do so? Again, instead of saying “trust me/us” show us why we should. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">me</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">talk to me!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Berchanhimez-20241115141300-Jimbo_Wales-20241115135000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:13, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-20241115141300-Jimbo_Wales-20241115135000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-20241115141300-Jimbo_Wales-20241115135000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rampion-20241115141100-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo Wales</a>, thank you for your comments.<br/>I believe one of the main reasons for the editors’ anxiety and all the nervousness going around is the prolonged silence from the WMF.<br/>The situation is extremely tense for the editors—if any information that could identify participants is handed over to the Indian court, it would set a worrying precedent, and many in the community are strongly opposed to letting things go in that direction.<br/>Meanwhile, WMF remains silent, not communicating its intentions, and all the information we, as editors, receive comes from the media.<br/>I believe that breaking this silence and having the WMF communicate openly and honestly about what’s happening and what they are planning to dowould help calm the community down.<br/>So, even a statement like “under no circumstances will we provide personal information about our editors to the Indian court” would be enough to reduce the tension in the conversation. <a href="/wiki/User:Rampion" title="User:Rampion">Rampion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rampion" title="User talk:Rampion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Rampion-20241115141100-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rampion-20241115141100-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rampion-20241115141100-Jimbo_Wales-20241114223800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Berchanhimez-20241115141400-Rampion-20241115141100"></span>Except the WMF, through their lawyers, asked for a consent order in which they agreed to release the information… -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez | <a href="/wiki/User:Berchanhimez" title="User:Berchanhimez">me</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Berchanhimez" title="User talk:Berchanhimez">talk to me!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Berchanhimez-20241115141400-Rampion-20241115141100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:14, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Berchanhimez-20241115141400-Rampion-20241115141100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Berchanhimez-20241115141400-Rampion-20241115141100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175200-Berchanhimez-20241115141400"></span>Remind me in the future to explain this to you. That's all I can really say. <a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo Wales</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales" title="User talk:Jimbo Wales">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175200-Berchanhimez-20241115141400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:52, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175200-Berchanhimez-20241115141400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175200-Berchanhimez-20241115141400"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175100-Rampion-20241115141100"></span>I understand what you're saying, Rampion. I think something very satisfactory will be forthcoming soon, but in legal matters the standard advice is to not talk. There are reasons for this, including court rules about <a href="/wiki/Sub_judice" title="Sub judice">sub judice</a>, the violation of which can stand us in contempt of court. There are very limited things which it is even legal to say. That's without even getting into specific details about legal and negotiating strategy where bringing the entire world into a transparent blow-by-blow just isn't a great idea.</dd> <dd>I should add that the WMF has not remained silent - they have updated the community as best they can. <a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo Wales</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales" title="User talk:Jimbo Wales">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175100-Rampion-20241115141100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175100-Rampion-20241115141100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175100-Rampion-20241115141100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snow_Rise-20241116213500-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175100"></span>Honestly Jimmy, I think there is substantial room for improvement in the WMF's approach to this situation, even taking into account all of the org's significant restrictions in these circumstances. I'm going to ask for some of the same trust you have frequently appealed for here in recent days when I say that I have <i>significant</i> reasons to understand and appreciate the delicate position and frustrating limitations which WMF counsel and Board members have been labouring under in this situation. And yet I still feel as if there was mismanagement of communication in this scenario.</dd> <dd>If nothing else, the WMF has absolutely massive resources and can not possibly have been unaware that a situation like this was on the horizon with regard to India; or if they were, inside counsel's capacities need serious reinforcement. So if the WMF thought there was <i><b><u>any</u></b></i> chance that they might even contemplate turning over PII in a suit such as this (or even that they might end up appearing to be considering that) they should have had MASSIVE engagement with the community well before sub judice principles attached in an actual case. Many aspects of how this has all played out were avoidable, at any number of junctures. Even my empathy for the difficult position of these dedicated advocates doesn't negate a conclusion of "I really hope lessons have been learned here", for all of us, and that more robust discussion between community and foundation on these issues touching upon our principle values are immediately forthcoming, as soon as possible. <i><a href="/wiki/User:Snow_Rise" title="User:Snow Rise"><b style="color:#19a0fd;">S</b><b style="color:#66c0fd">n</b><b style="color:#99d5fe;">o</b><b style="color:#b2dffe;">w</b><b style="color:#B27EB2;">Rise</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Snow_Rise" title="User talk:Snow Rise"><sup><b style="color:#d4143a"> let's rap</b></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Snow_Rise-20241116213500-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:35, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snow_Rise-20241116213500-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snow_Rise-20241116213500-Jimbo_Wales-20241115175100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900-Berchanhimez-20241114223100"></span>Just to clarify, I'm completely against WMF releasing (even considering to release) this information at all. I'm just stating that as of right now, no information has been released, which is not what some users have been portraying. — <a href="/wiki/User:BerryForPerpetuity" title="User:BerryForPerpetuity"><span style="download;font-family:Noto Sans Mono, Verdana">BerryForPerpetuity</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:BerryForPerpetuity" title="User talk:BerryForPerpetuity"><span style="">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900-Berchanhimez-20241114223100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:39, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900-Berchanhimez-20241114223100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900-Berchanhimez-20241114223100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shearonink-20241114224500-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"></span>I guess this is probably off-topic to this section but wanted to say that just that this possible news, even though it's been mischaracterized and reported erroneously, that I am feeling a chill come over my editing here on Wikipedia. I personally don't feel as safe here as I used to. That's all... - <a href="/wiki/User:Shearonink" title="User:Shearonink">Shearonink</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shearonink" title="User talk:Shearonink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Shearonink-20241114224500-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shearonink-20241114224500-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shearonink-20241114224500-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steel1943-20241114233700-Shearonink-20241114224500"></span>Yep... For some, regardless, the damage has already been done. <i><b><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)">Steel1943</a></b></i> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Steel1943-20241114233700-Shearonink-20241114224500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:37, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steel1943-20241114233700-Shearonink-20241114224500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steel1943-20241114233700-Shearonink-20241114224500"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tryptofish-20241114224700-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"></span>Jimmy, I do take some comfort in your reassurance here. But I also think it's essential for the community to speak loudly and clearly in defense of editor privacy. It's neither premature nor misguided nor an impediment to anything WMF Legal needs to do, to reaffirm what this community stands for. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Tryptofish-20241114224700-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:47, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tryptofish-20241114224700-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tryptofish-20241114224700-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ocaasi-20241114235300-Tryptofish-20241114224700"></span>This. Every institution needs to know where the guardrails are. These are ours. <a href="/wiki/User:Ocaasi" title="User:Ocaasi">Ocaasi</a><sup> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ocaasi" title="User talk:Ocaasi">t </a>|<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ocaasi" title="Special:Contributions/Ocaasi"> c</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Ocaasi-20241114235300-Tryptofish-20241114224700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:53, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ocaasi-20241114235300-Tryptofish-20241114224700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ocaasi-20241114235300-Tryptofish-20241114224700"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Picard's_Facepalm-20241115153800-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo Wales</a> this is blatant overreach by the India High Court. They have absolutely zero jurisdiction over WMF or the WP project, and the WMF's compliance with this order is flatly asinine. The fact that the information is to be sealed to the court serves absolutely zero purpose other than to divulge to the state - which has only one possible outcome. The WMF board members who voted in favor of compliance & disclosure should be immediately unseated - even if it means complete dissolution of the board and an outright restructuring of the WMF. The compliance has revealed the board is not acting in the best interest of the project, and now all editors are at risk. This is flatly unacceptable on all levels, and there is now the mark of <b>no confidence</b> in the WMF. All servers and data physically located in India should be immediately migrated out of the country, the servers wiped and permanently shut down. In absolutely no manner or fashion is WMF or the WP project obligated to comply with this demand, or to even respond to the suit. <a href="/wiki/User:Picard%27s_Facepalm" title="User:Picard's Facepalm"><b>--Picard's Facepalm</b></a> <b style="color:red">•</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Picard%27s_Facepalm" title="Special:Contributions/Picard's Facepalm"> <sup>Made It So</sup></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Picard%27s_Facepalm" title="User talk:Picard's Facepalm"><i style="color:green"><sub>Engage!</sub></i></a> <b style="color:red">•</b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Picard's_Facepalm-20241115153800-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:38, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Picard's_Facepalm-20241115153800-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Picard's_Facepalm-20241115153800-BerryForPerpetuity-20241114223900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115180100-Picard's_Facepalm-20241115153800"></span>"The WMF board members who voted in favor of compliance & disclosure should be immediately unseated" - this is pure misinformation, please refrain from jumping to conclusions. There's not much else I can tell you other than calm down, you're getting extremely upset over things that didn't happen. <a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo Wales</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales" title="User talk:Jimbo Wales">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115180100-Picard's_Facepalm-20241115153800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115180100-Picard's_Facepalm-20241115153800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jimbo_Wales-20241115180100-Picard's_Facepalm-20241115153800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TracyVaghmare91-20241114231500-Steel1943-20241114193600"></span>An editor inserted the word "propoganda machine" for the live wire ANI. Now they are rattled. Thats the long story short <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:TracyVaghmare91&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:TracyVaghmare91 (page does not exist)">TracyVaghmare91</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TracyVaghmare91" title="User talk:TracyVaghmare91">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-TracyVaghmare91-20241114231500-Steel1943-20241114193600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TracyVaghmare91-20241114231500-Steel1943-20241114193600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TracyVaghmare91-20241114231500-Steel1943-20241114193600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GRuban-20241115142900-TracyVaghmare91-20241114231500"></span>I trust Jimbo. Not unconditionally, but enough to believe him when he says that the WMF isn't releasing identity data. Now it bothers me that he isn't being more clear than that, but I trust that he has his reasons. He did make the Wikipedia, and its principles, including this one. He's earned that trust. We can always riot if it turns out he's lying; but until then, I'm going to believe he isn't. --<a href="/wiki/User:GRuban" title="User:GRuban">GRuban</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GRuban" title="User talk:GRuban">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-GRuban-20241115142900-TracyVaghmare91-20241114231500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:29, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GRuban-20241115142900-TracyVaghmare91-20241114231500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GRuban-20241115142900-TracyVaghmare91-20241114231500"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-King_Lobclaw-20241115155100-GRuban-20241115142900"></span>The Indian government and courts need to be disregarded. If English Wikipedia gives in to nutty demands, than every government with an axe to grind will take a stab. Maybe someone from the incoming Trump Administration might make a similar set of demands about 1/6. Users in India are more than savvy enough to use VPNs to get around any sort of ban the Indian courts put in place. WP needs to stick to its guns. <a href="/wiki/User:King_Lobclaw" title="User:King Lobclaw">King Lobclaw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:King_Lobclaw" title="User talk:King Lobclaw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-King_Lobclaw-20241115155100-GRuban-20241115142900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-King_Lobclaw-20241115155100-GRuban-20241115142900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-King_Lobclaw-20241115155100-GRuban-20241115142900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maimontradi-20241118224200-King_Lobclaw-20241115155100"></span>The Indian Govt has a single point agenda for Wikipedia, "<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://indianexpress.com/article/india/centre-issues-notice-wikipedia-asks-why-intermediary-not-publisher-9654226/">bend or break</a>". In this context the Supreme Court of India is now independently questioning if Wikipedia should be treated as a publisher instead of as an intermediary. <a href="/wiki/User:Maimontradi" title="User:Maimontradi">Maimontradi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maimontradi" title="User talk:Maimontradi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Maimontradi-20241118224200-King_Lobclaw-20241115155100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:42, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maimontradi-20241118224200-King_Lobclaw-20241115155100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maimontradi-20241118224200-King_Lobclaw-20241115155100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WMF's_policy" data-mw-thread-id="h-WMF's_policy-20241117102600"><span id="WMF.27s_policy"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WMF's_policy-20241117102600"></span>WMF's policy<span data-mw-comment-end="h-WMF's_policy-20241117102600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: WMF's policy"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brandmeister-20241117102600-WMF's_policy"></span>If it <a class="external text" href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Policy:Privacy_policy#Collection_&_Use_of_Info">has already been in WMF's privacy policy</a> before that "We will access, use, preserve, and/or disclose your Personal Information if we reasonably believe it necessary to satisfy a valid and legally enforceable warrant, subpoena, court order, law or regulation, or other judicial or administrative order", then I wonder if such open letters would make a difference and if it's worthy complaining at all. Besides, WMF isn't a <a href="/wiki/Big_Brother_(franchise)#Name" title="Big Brother (franchise)">Big Brother</a>, collecting all possible user data, it can only collect the data provided by underlying user IP and user themselves who is presumably aware of WMF's privacy policy. So I think we shouldn't make big eyes out of fear. <a href="/wiki/User:Brandmeister" title="User:Brandmeister">Brandmeister</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brandmeister" title="User talk:Brandmeister">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Brandmeister-20241117102600-WMF's_policy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:26, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brandmeister-20241117102600-WMF's_policy"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brandmeister-20241117102600-WMF's_policy"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117171300-Brandmeister-20241117102600"></span>It's something to ask them not to choose. Just because one can doesn't mean one shall. <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"><span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Aaron_Liu-20241117171300-Brandmeister-20241117102600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117171300-Brandmeister-20241117102600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117171300-Brandmeister-20241117102600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steel1943-20241117173100-Brandmeister-20241117102600"></span>Huh, never noticed that before ... and if I had, I would have stopped editing the day that excerpt was written. <i><b><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)">Steel1943</a></b></i> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Steel1943-20241117173100-Brandmeister-20241117102600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:31, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steel1943-20241117173100-Brandmeister-20241117102600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steel1943-20241117173100-Brandmeister-20241117102600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117173200-Steel1943-20241117173100"></span>I'm assuming you would withdraw from every online service that collects any data as well? <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"><span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Aaron_Liu-20241117173200-Steel1943-20241117173100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:32, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117173200-Steel1943-20241117173100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117173200-Steel1943-20241117173100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steel1943-20241117174000-Aaron_Liu-20241117173200"></span>That's impossible to do in this day and age with trackers almost literally everywhere, including on Wikipedia itself, so absolutely not. I have become a lot choosier in where my data gets revealed over the years; I had assumed there were some safeguards that the WMF implemented to protect its editors since that protects the integrity of this site, but that illusion of security has now disappeared. <i><b><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)">Steel1943</a></b></i> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Steel1943-20241117174000-Aaron_Liu-20241117173200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:40, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steel1943-20241117174000-Aaron_Liu-20241117173200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steel1943-20241117174000-Aaron_Liu-20241117173200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117175000-Steel1943-20241117174000"></span>All entities are required to comply with law. I read the sentence as "we will comply with court orders", which they can also appeal and battle before complying at the last moment as they have done with <a href="/wiki/Asian_News_International_vs._Wikimedia_Foundation" title="Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation">Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation</a> and the reason why we still have no idea whether emails have been disclosed to ANI. <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"><span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Aaron_Liu-20241117175000-Steel1943-20241117174000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:50, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117175000-Steel1943-20241117174000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aaron_Liu-20241117175000-Steel1943-20241117174000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steel1943-20241117175800-Aaron_Liu-20241117175000"></span>I'm not arguing that since every entity is supposed to do that. However, the lack of clarity is put into play when international law is considered, especially when the entities in a lawsuit are from different countries. In such cases, there are multiple ways to respond to such lawsuits to resolve the lawsuit; the response in this specific case is unfortunate since even though WMF apparently has in writing they <i>could</i> do this, they didn't <i>have</i> to do this since there were other options which may have satisfied the lawsuit that did not involve providing user information. <i><b><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)">Steel1943</a></b></i> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Steel1943-20241117175800-Aaron_Liu-20241117175000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steel1943-20241117175800-Aaron_Liu-20241117175000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steel1943-20241117175800-Aaron_Liu-20241117175000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Phil_Bridger-20241117174500-Brandmeister-20241117102600"></span>Legal ≢ ethical. I wish the WMF would make the right ethical decision, whatever legal advice they have been given. Lawyers only advise; the WMF decides. <a href="/wiki/User:Phil_Bridger" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Phil Bridger">Phil Bridger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Phil_Bridger" title="User talk:Phil Bridger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Phil_Bridger-20241117174500-Brandmeister-20241117102600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Phil_Bridger-20241117174500-Brandmeister-20241117102600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Phil_Bridger-20241117174500-Brandmeister-20241117102600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tryptofish-20241118191300-Phil_Bridger-20241117174500"></span>I actually did read that fine print, but I always took it to mean that such information might be turned over to authorities when there is actual wrongdoing, such as child abuse. Not that it would be done in order to (perhaps) protect the WMF's rear end. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tryptofish" title="User:Tryptofish">Tryptofish</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tryptofish" title="User talk:Tryptofish">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Tryptofish-20241118191300-Phil_Bridger-20241117174500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:13, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tryptofish-20241118191300-Phil_Bridger-20241117174500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tryptofish-20241118191300-Phil_Bridger-20241117174500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maimontradi-20241118223400-WMF's_policy"></span>Anonymous speech is not guaranteed in the Indian Constitution. Free speech is only for Indians. Indian law, especially the old IPC and the new BNS, criminalises defamation as a criminal offence as well as civil tort. So the options for Wikimedia are very limited and we need to be very cautious to maintain safe harbour while avoiding criminal liability. On the other hand ANI has every right to pursue civil damages. To do that ANI needs a defendant and that’s where the three targeted editors come in. If we don’t provide the necessary info to serve notice on these individuals, the court may have to ban all anonymous Wikipedia content in India, including the Indian language editions provided by Wikimedia. I see a lot of negative comments against Indian judges on this page. Based on my personal experiences I can say that the Indian judiciary, especially the High Court, has a good understanding of cyber law and is very tech savvy. For example Indians all over the world can pay just 6 cents to download the entire digitised court file in the ANI case from the Delhi high court's website. I doubt if that’s the case in the US. Has anyone here tried to do it I wonder ? <a href="/wiki/User:Maimontradi" title="User:Maimontradi">Maimontradi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maimontradi" title="User talk:Maimontradi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Maimontradi-20241118223400-WMF's_policy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:34, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maimontradi-20241118223400-WMF's_policy"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maimontradi-20241118223400-WMF's_policy"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241118235400-Maimontradi-20241118223400"></span>IIRC court files in the US are free unless a judge orders something to be held sealed. <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"><span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Aaron_Liu-20241118235400-Maimontradi-20241118223400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241118235400-Maimontradi-20241118223400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aaron_Liu-20241118235400-Maimontradi-20241118223400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maimontradi-20241119064900-Aaron_Liu-20241118235400"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.sdcourt.ca.gov/sdcourt/generalinformation/courtrecords2/obtainacourtfile">The San Diego Superior Court does not send out court files electronically or by fax. In addition, persons are not allowed to use cameras (including phones with cameras) to take pictures of the contents of a file.</a></q> <a href="/wiki/User:Maimontradi" title="User:Maimontradi">Maimontradi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maimontradi" title="User talk:Maimontradi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Maimontradi-20241119064900-Aaron_Liu-20241118235400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:49, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maimontradi-20241119064900-Aaron_Liu-20241118235400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maimontradi-20241119064900-Aaron_Liu-20241118235400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241119124600-Maimontradi-20241119064900"></span>That's the normal court, not the appeals court, the rough but still more local equivalent of the Delhi High court: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.courts.ca.gov/publicrecords.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en">https://www.courts.ca.gov/publicrecords.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"><span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Aaron_Liu-20241119124600-Maimontradi-20241119064900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:46, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241119124600-Maimontradi-20241119064900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aaron_Liu-20241119124600-Maimontradi-20241119064900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravensfire-20241120164900-Aaron_Liu-20241119124600"></span>At the Federal level in the US, <a href="/wiki/PACER_(law)" title="PACER (law)">PACER</a> is pretty impressive and for reasonably popular cases, the <a href="/wiki/Free_Law_Project" title="Free Law Project">Free Law Project</a>'s RECAP has free access to Pacer docs. I wish there was something similar / consistent across the states. <b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravensfire" title="User talk:Ravensfire"><span style="color: darkred;">Ravensfire</span></a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ravensfire" title="User talk:Ravensfire">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Ravensfire-20241120164900-Aaron_Liu-20241119124600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:49, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravensfire-20241120164900-Aaron_Liu-20241119124600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravensfire-20241120164900-Aaron_Liu-20241119124600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maimontradi-20241120215300-Ravensfire-20241120164900"></span>The Delhi High Court isn't only a court of appeal, its primarily a court of original jurisdiction. I read that <a href="/wiki/PACER_(law)" title="PACER (law)">PACER</a> is only available to authorised people (? lawyers) and is very expensive (like a paywall), while the Delhi High Court e-inspection is open to all Indians anywhere in the world to access at a token court fee of just 6 cents. So back to my original question, has any Indian Wikipedia editor accessed the official court file so that this open letter can be based on what the litigants have actually filed and not assumptions from the secondary reporting or what the Foundation condescends to share to the minions ? <a href="/wiki/User:Maimontradi" title="User:Maimontradi">Maimontradi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maimontradi" title="User talk:Maimontradi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Maimontradi-20241120215300-Ravensfire-20241120164900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maimontradi-20241120215300-Ravensfire-20241120164900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maimontradi-20241120215300-Ravensfire-20241120164900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241120222400-Maimontradi-20241120215300"></span>1. Local appeals courts also hear quite a bit of original jurisdiction cases.<br/>2. The PACER system only charges fees after one requests 300 pages within 3 months.<br/>3. The aforementioned RECAP system is free, albeit an unofficial effort that has slightly less documents.<br/>4. PACER and RECAP are only for cases that involve federal law. I'm not sure if Indian high courts are under territorial or federal jurisdiction.<br/>Everything said in the secondary sources can and have been backed up by looking at the original case files. For example, <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Update_from_14_November_hearing">the latest wave of anger</a> directly quotes the court order. <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"><span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Aaron_Liu-20241120222400-Maimontradi-20241120215300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241120222400-Maimontradi-20241120215300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aaron_Liu-20241120222400-Maimontradi-20241120215300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maimontradi-20241121061900-Aaron_Liu-20241120222400"></span>The <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://dhcappl.nic.in/dhcorderportal/GetOrder.do?ID=smp/2024/724909941731938714546_33176_5242024.pdf">Actual court order</a> is quite different to what is reported in your link. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">let fresh summons be issued to Respondents No.2 to 4 through all permissible modes, including Dasti, and emails which are to be supplied by Defendant No.1.</q>. This means that WMF will provide email IDs to the Court Registry who will serve summons on the the 3 users. Since Court has specified Dasti (hand delivery) too, WMF has to provide their physical addresses also. On Court website it is visible that exactly 5 days after that order the ANI has paid the summons service fees vide Diary No : 5326539/2024. This probably means that ANI also knows the names and IDs of the 3 users by now, as provided by WMF.<a href="/wiki/User:Maimontradi" title="User:Maimontradi">Maimontradi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maimontradi" title="User talk:Maimontradi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Maimontradi-20241121061900-Aaron_Liu-20241120222400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:19, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maimontradi-20241121061900-Aaron_Liu-20241120222400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maimontradi-20241121061900-Aaron_Liu-20241120222400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241121123700-Maimontradi-20241121061900"></span>How is that different to what we've taken from it? The entire open letter was exactly against the disclosure of the identities of the users. People hoped that the WMF would deliver the summons themselves instead of disclosing names or any other "subscriber details". <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"><span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Aaron_Liu-20241121123700-Maimontradi-20241121061900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:37, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241121123700-Maimontradi-20241121061900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aaron_Liu-20241121123700-Maimontradi-20241121061900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ratnahastin-20241122013400-Aaron_Liu-20241121123700"></span>Subscriber details will still be submitted to the court after issuing summons. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">(b) The Appellant shall file an affidavit of service in accordance with Chapter VI, Rule 17 of the Delhi High Court (Original Side) Rules, 2018 in sealed cover disclosing all the basic subscriber details of Respondent No. 2-4 available with it, along with the proof of service of summons by email within 7 days of service of summons</q> - <a href="/wiki/User:Ratnahastin" title="User:Ratnahastin"><span style="color:#A52A2A;">Ratnahastin</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ratnahastin" title="User talk:Ratnahastin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Ratnahastin-20241122013400-Aaron_Liu-20241121123700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ratnahastin-20241122013400-Aaron_Liu-20241121123700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ratnahastin-20241122013400-Aaron_Liu-20241121123700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241122013600-Ratnahastin-20241122013400"></span>Yeah, exactly; that's what people are angry about! <a href="/wiki/User:Aaron_Liu" title="User:Aaron Liu"><span class="skin-invert" style="color:#0645ad">Aaron Liu</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aaron_Liu#top" title="User talk:Aaron Liu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Aaron_Liu-20241122013600-Ratnahastin-20241122013400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:36, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aaron_Liu-20241122013600-Ratnahastin-20241122013400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aaron_Liu-20241122013600-Ratnahastin-20241122013400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ratnahastin-20241120105000-Maimontradi-20241118223400"></span>"understanding of cyber law and is very tech savvy. " - We can clearly see how it is using its " tech savvy"-ness to control the internet on behalf of the Indian state.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.wired.com/story/indias-government-wants-total-control-of-the-internet/">[2]</a> - <a href="/wiki/User:Ratnahastin" title="User:Ratnahastin"><span style="color:#A52A2A;">Ratnahastin</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ratnahastin" title="User talk:Ratnahastin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Ratnahastin-20241120105000-Maimontradi-20241118223400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ratnahastin-20241120105000-Maimontradi-20241118223400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ratnahastin-20241120105000-Maimontradi-20241118223400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BilboBeggins-20241122103600-Maimontradi-20241118223400"></span>"If we don’t provide the necessary info to serve notice on these individuals, the court may have to ban all anonymous Wikipedia content in India, including the Indian language editions provided by Wikimedia" — then so be it. It is a blatant pressuring of editors who just use reliable sources. <a href="/wiki/User:BilboBeggins" title="User:BilboBeggins">BilboBeggins</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilboBeggins" title="User talk:BilboBeggins">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-BilboBeggins-20241122103600-Maimontradi-20241118223400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:36, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BilboBeggins-20241122103600-Maimontradi-20241118223400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BilboBeggins-20241122103600-Maimontradi-20241118223400"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Administrators'_Noticeboard_Incident_–_Hindu_News" data-mw-thread-id="h-Administrators'_Noticeboard_Incident_–_Hindu_News-20241117165400"><span id="Administrators.27_Noticeboard_Incident_.E2.80.93_Hindu_News"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Administrators'_Noticeboard_Incident_–_Hindu_News-20241117165400"></span>Administrators' Noticeboard Incident – Hindu News<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Administrators'_Noticeboard_Incident_–_Hindu_News-20241117165400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Administrators' Noticeboard Incident – Hindu News"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Slatersteven-20241117165400-Administrators'_Noticeboard_Incident_–_Hindu_News"></span>Given this ani [<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Hindu_News">[3]</a>] the idea that users name will be published in India (given the threats) is highly troublaing. We have a duty of care. <a href="/wiki/User:Slatersteven" title="User:Slatersteven">Slatersteven</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Slatersteven" title="User talk:Slatersteven">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Slatersteven-20241117165400-Administrators'_Noticeboard_Incident_–_Hindu_News" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Slatersteven-20241117165400-Administrators'_Noticeboard_Incident_–_Hindu_News"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Slatersteven-20241117165400-Administrators'_Noticeboard_Incident_–_Hindu_News"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maimontradi-20241120221300-Slatersteven-20241117165400"></span>I don't see anywhere that the Wikipedia users name will be published in the ANI suit. Under Indian criminal law neither "truth" nor "verifiability" are absolute defences to the offence of defamation (and its civil consequences, ie. damages). WMF has recorded a compromise in court that they will serve the 3 editors in question by email, what is not appreciated is under Delhi High Court's procedural rules in such matters where the noticee has not appeared before the court, the email service of notice has to be only sent from the email ID of the Court registry and not from the email ID of Wikimedia or Wikimedia lawyers. So Foundation will have to disclose the email IDs to the Court registry. This procedure cannot be termed as publication <a href="/wiki/User:Maimontradi" title="User:Maimontradi">Maimontradi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maimontradi" title="User talk:Maimontradi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Maimontradi-20241120221300-Slatersteven-20241117165400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maimontradi-20241120221300-Slatersteven-20241117165400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maimontradi-20241120221300-Slatersteven-20241117165400"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WIRED_–_India's_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet" data-mw-thread-id="h-WIRED_–_India's_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet-20241120102800"><span id="WIRED_.E2.80.93_India.27s_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WIRED_–_India's_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet-20241120102800"></span>WIRED – India's Government Wants Control of the Internet<span data-mw-comment-end="h-WIRED_–_India's_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet-20241120102800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: WIRED – India's Government Wants Control of the Internet"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.wired.com/story/indias-government-wants-total-control-of-the-internet/"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ratnahastin-20241120102800-WIRED_–_India's_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet"></span>https://www.wired.com/story/indias-government-wants-total-control-of-the-internet/</a> - This lawsuit is India's far right government's attempt at controlling the internet. By conceding to India's demands, WMF has forever damaged its mission. - <a href="/wiki/User:Ratnahastin" title="User:Ratnahastin"><span style="color:#A52A2A;">Ratnahastin</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ratnahastin" title="User talk:Ratnahastin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Ratnahastin-20241120102800-WIRED_–_India's_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:28, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ratnahastin-20241120102800-WIRED_–_India's_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ratnahastin-20241120102800-WIRED_–_India's_Government_Wants_Control_of_the_Internet"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Carlinal-20241121054500-Ratnahastin-20241120102800"></span>I like <i><a href="/wiki/WIRED" class="mw-redirect" title="WIRED">WIRED</a></i>, but there's nothing that hasn't been already said about the Indian government (<a href="/wiki/Republic_TV" title="Republic TV">and journalism</a>) at this point. Besides, I argue that the WMF <i>hasn't</i> conceded. Not yet. <a href="/wiki/User:Carlinal" title="User:Carlinal">Carlinal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carlinal" title="User talk:Carlinal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Carlinal-20241121054500-Ratnahastin-20241120102800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:45, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Carlinal-20241121054500-Ratnahastin-20241120102800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Carlinal-20241121054500-Ratnahastin-20241120102800"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maimontradi-20241121063300-Carlinal-20241121054500"></span>The terms of the consent order has following terms <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">(e) Respondent No. I shall be at liberty to approach the Ld. Single Judge for disclosure of the information and documents filed in sealed cover, if required, which shall be considered in accordance with law. All rights and contentions of the parties in this regard are left open. C. It is made clear that service of summons in accordance with this order shall constitute sufficient service upon Respondent Nos. 2-4 (impleaded as Defendant Nos. 2 to 4 in CS(OS) No. 524/2024) and the Appellant's compliance is limited to effecting service as provided under this order and will thereby fasten no liability on the Appellant for Respondent Nos. 2-4's actions or inactions. Notwithstanding the foregoing, Respondent Nos. 2-4 will be at liberty to raise all defences available to them in accordance with the law in CS(OS) No. 524/2024</q>. If WMF fails to comply now that the ANI has deposited the process fees, the only appeal route left for WMF is to the Supreme Court of India, which traditionally has been extremely reluctant to interfere with consent orders. There can be no further confirmation that either WMF has thrown the 3 editors under the bus, or has failed to give their correct details.<a href="/wiki/User:Maimontradi" title="User:Maimontradi">Maimontradi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maimontradi" title="User talk:Maimontradi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Maimontradi-20241121063300-Carlinal-20241121054500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:33, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maimontradi-20241121063300-Carlinal-20241121054500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maimontradi-20241121063300-Carlinal-20241121054500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ratnahastin-20241121083400-Carlinal-20241121054500"></span>As the Maimomtradi said before, WMF has agreed to hand over the details to court within 7 days of issuing summons. Perhaps they have already submitted the details to the court or they will do it by 16 December. In any case, it is beyond certain that WMF will throw editors under the bus to save itself and not doing so would mean going against whatever they have agreed to in the court. - <a href="/wiki/User:Ratnahastin" title="User:Ratnahastin"><span style="color:#A52A2A;">Ratnahastin</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ratnahastin" title="User talk:Ratnahastin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-Ratnahastin-20241121083400-Carlinal-20241121054500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:34, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ratnahastin-20241121083400-Carlinal-20241121054500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ratnahastin-20241121083400-Carlinal-20241121054500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BilboBeggins-20241122103800-Ratnahastin-20241121083400"></span>Are there any updates on that? What is going on at the moment? <a href="/wiki/User:BilboBeggins" title="User:BilboBeggins">BilboBeggins</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilboBeggins" title="User talk:BilboBeggins">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation#c-BilboBeggins-20241122103800-Ratnahastin-20241121083400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BilboBeggins-20241122103800-Ratnahastin-20241121083400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BilboBeggins-20241122103800-Ratnahastin-20241121083400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&oldid=1259184308">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:2024_open_letter_to_the_Wikimedia_Foundation&oldid=1259184308</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 23 November 2024, at 20:57<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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