CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <title>Talk:United States - Wikipedia</title> <script>(function(){var className="client-js vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available";var cookie=document.cookie.match(/(?:^|; )enwikimwclientpreferences=([^;]+)/);if(cookie){cookie[1].split('%2C').forEach(function(pref){className=className.replace(new RegExp('(^| )'+pref.replace(/-clientpref-\w+$|[^\w-]+/g,'')+'-clientpref-\\w+( |$)'),'$1'+pref+'$2');});}document.documentElement.className=className;}());RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy", "wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"6ff6657f-32e8-4339-91db-64c148e3952f","wgCanonicalNamespace":"Talk","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":1,"wgPageName":"Talk:United_States","wgTitle":"United States","wgCurRevisionId":1259136773,"wgRevisionId":1259136773,"wgArticleId":3433959,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":["Wikipedia pages about contentious topics","Selected anniversaries articles","All Wikipedia vital articles","Wikipedia article talk pages incorporating the backwards copy template","Pages using backwards copy with unknown parameters","Pages in the Wikipedia Top 50 Report","Pages with experimental page views chart enabled","Pages with stale experimental page views chart","Wikipedia articles that use American English","Delisted good articles","Old requests for peer review", "Former good article nominees","Wikipedia Did you know articles","B-Class level-3 vital articles","Wikipedia level-3 vital articles in Geography","B-Class vital articles in Geography","B-Class United States articles","Top-importance United States articles","B-Class United States articles of Top-importance","B-Class United States Government articles","Unknown-importance United States Government articles","WikiProject United States Government articles","United States Government articles with to-do lists","Past U.S. collaborations of the Month","WikiProject United States articles","B-Class North America articles","Top-importance North America articles","WikiProject North America articles","B-Class country articles","WikiProject Countries articles","Wikipedia pages referenced by the press","Pages in the Wikipedia Top 25 Report"],"wgPageViewLanguage":"en","wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"Talk:United_States","wgRelevantArticleId":3433959, "wgIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":[],"wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgCiteReferencePreviewsActive":false,"wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{"status":{"levels":1}}},"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":0,"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","pageVariantFallbacks":"en"},"wgMFDisplayWikibaseDescriptions":{"search":true,"watchlist":true,"tagline":false,"nearby":true},"wgWMESchemaEditAttemptStepOversample":false,"wgWMEPageLength":80000,"wgRelatedArticlesCompat":[],"wgCentralAuthMobileDomain":false,"wgEditSubmitButtonLabelPublish":true,"wgDiscussionToolsFeaturesEnabled":{"replytool":true,"newtopictool":true,"sourcemodetoolbar":true,"topicsubscription":false,"autotopicsub":false,"visualenhancements":false,"visualenhancements_reply":false,"visualenhancements_pageframe":false},"wgDiscussionToolsFallbackEditMode":"source","wgULSPosition": "interlanguage","wgULSisCompactLinksEnabled":false,"wgVector2022LanguageInHeader":true,"wgULSisLanguageSelectorEmpty":true,"wgCheckUserClientHintsHeadersJsApi":["brands","architecture","bitness","fullVersionList","mobile","model","platform","platformVersion"],"GEHomepageSuggestedEditsEnableTopics":true,"wgGETopicsMatchModeEnabled":false,"wgGEStructuredTaskRejectionReasonTextInputEnabled":false,"wgGELevelingUpEnabledForUser":false};RLSTATE={"ext.globalCssJs.user.styles":"ready","site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","ext.globalCssJs.user":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","ext.inputBox.styles":"ready","ext.cite.styles":"ready","ext.discussionTools.init.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.styles":"ready","oojs-ui.styles.indicators":"ready","mediawiki.widgets.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.icons":"ready","skins.vector.search.codex.styles":"ready","skins.vector.styles":"ready","skins.vector.icons":"ready","jquery.tablesorter.styles":"ready","jquery.makeCollapsible.styles": "ready","ext.wikimediamessages.styles":"ready","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript":"ready","ext.uls.interlanguage":"ready","ext.wikimediaBadges":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["ext.cite.ux-enhancements","site","mediawiki.page.ready","jquery.tablesorter","jquery.makeCollapsible","mediawiki.toc","skins.vector.js","ext.centralNotice.geoIP","ext.centralNotice.startUp","ext.gadget.ReferenceTooltips","ext.gadget.switcher","ext.urlShortener.toolbar","ext.centralauth.centralautologin","mmv.bootstrap","ext.popups","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.init","ext.visualEditor.targetLoader","ext.echo.centralauth","ext.discussionTools.init","ext.eventLogging","ext.wikimediaEvents","ext.navigationTiming","ext.uls.interface","ext.cx.eventlogging.campaigns","ext.checkUser.clientHints","ext.growthExperiments.SuggestedEditSession"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.impl(function(){return["user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"}); }];});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.cite.styles%7Cext.discussionTools.init.styles%7Cext.inputBox.styles%7Cext.uls.interlanguage%7Cext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript%7Cext.wikimediaBadges%7Cext.wikimediamessages.styles%7Cjquery.makeCollapsible.styles%7Cjquery.tablesorter.styles%7Cmediawiki.widgets.styles%7Coojs-ui-core.icons%2Cstyles%7Coojs-ui.styles.indicators%7Cskins.vector.icons%2Cstyles%7Cskins.vector.search.codex.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <script async="" src="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector-2022"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.44.0-wmf.4"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin-when-cross-origin"> <meta name="robots" content="max-image-preview:standard"> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1120"> <meta property="og:title" content="Talk:United States - Wikipedia"> <meta property="og:type" content="website"> <link rel="preconnect" href="//upload.wikimedia.org"> <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/static/apple-touch/wikipedia.png"> <link rel="icon" href="/static/favicon/wikipedia.ico"> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/rest.php/v1/search" title="Wikipedia (en)"> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=rsd"> <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States"> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//meta.wikimedia.org" /> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin--responsive skin-vector skin-vector-search-vue mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-1 ns-talk mw-editable page-Talk_United_States rootpage-Talk_United_States skin-vector-2022 action-view"><a class="mw-jump-link" href="#bodyContent">Jump to content</a> <div class="vector-header-container"> <header class="vector-header mw-header"> <div class="vector-header-start"> <nav class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-main-menu-dropdown vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Main menu" > <label id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-label" for="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-menu mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-menu"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Main menu</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-main-menu" class="vector-main-menu vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-main-menu-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="main-menu-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-main-menu" data-pinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Main menu</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-navigation" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-navigation" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Navigation </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-mainpage-description" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Visit the main page [z]" accesskey="z"><span>Main page</span></a></li><li id="n-contents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents" title="Guides to browsing Wikipedia"><span>Contents</span></a></li><li id="n-currentevents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Current_events" title="Articles related to current events"><span>Current events</span></a></li><li id="n-randompage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Visit a randomly selected article [x]" accesskey="x"><span>Random article</span></a></li><li id="n-aboutsite" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About" title="Learn about Wikipedia and how it works"><span>About Wikipedia</span></a></li><li id="n-contactpage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us" title="How to contact Wikipedia"><span>Contact us</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-interaction" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-interaction" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Contribute </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-help" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia"><span>Help</span></a></li><li id="n-introduction" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Learn how to edit Wikipedia"><span>Learn to edit</span></a></li><li id="n-portal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_portal" title="The hub for editors"><span>Community portal</span></a></li><li id="n-recentchanges" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChanges" title="A list of recent changes to Wikipedia [r]" accesskey="r"><span>Recent changes</span></a></li><li id="n-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard" title="Add images or other media for use on Wikipedia"><span>Upload file</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" class="mw-logo"> <img class="mw-logo-icon" src="/static/images/icons/wikipedia.png" alt="" aria-hidden="true" height="50" width="50"> <span class="mw-logo-container skin-invert"> <img class="mw-logo-wordmark" alt="Wikipedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-wordmark-en.svg" style="width: 7.5em; height: 1.125em;"> <img class="mw-logo-tagline" alt="The Free Encyclopedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg" width="117" height="13" style="width: 7.3125em; height: 0.8125em;"> </span> </a> </div> <div class="vector-header-end"> <div id="p-search" role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-collapses vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box-auto-expand-width vector-search-box"> <a href="/wiki/Special:Search" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only search-toggle" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-search mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-search"></span> <span>Search</span> </a> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail cdx-typeahead-search--auto-expand-width"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="searchform" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div id="simpleSearch" class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" aria-label="Search Wikipedia" autocapitalize="sentences" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f" id="searchInput" > <span class="cdx-text-input__icon cdx-text-input__start-icon"></span> </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-user-links vector-user-links-wide" aria-label="Personal tools"> <div class="vector-user-links-main"> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-preferences" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-userpage" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown " title="Change the appearance of the page's font size, width, and color" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Appearance" > <label id="vector-appearance-dropdown-label" for="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-appearance mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-appearance"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Appearance</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-notifications" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-overflow" class="vector-menu mw-portlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en" class=""><span>Donate</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-createaccount-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Talk%3AUnited+States" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory" class=""><span>Create account</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-login-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Talk%3AUnited+States" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o" class=""><span>Log in</span></a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div id="vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-user-menu vector-button-flush-right vector-user-menu-logged-out" title="Log in and more options" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Personal tools" > <label id="vector-user-links-dropdown-label" for="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-ellipsis mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-ellipsis"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Personal tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal user-links-collapsible-item" title="User menu" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en"><span>Donate</span></a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Talk%3AUnited+States" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-userAdd mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-userAdd"></span> <span>Create account</span></a></li><li id="pt-login" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Talk%3AUnited+States" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-logIn mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-logIn"></span> <span>Log in</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-user-menu-anon-editor" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-user-menu-anon-editor" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Pages for logged out editors <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" aria-label="Learn more about editing"><span>learn more</span></a> </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-anoncontribs" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyContributions" title="A list of edits made from this IP address [y]" accesskey="y"><span>Contributions</span></a></li><li id="pt-anontalk" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyTalk" title="Discussion about edits from this IP address [n]" accesskey="n"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </header> </div> <div class="mw-page-container"> <div class="mw-page-container-inner"> <div class="vector-sitenotice-container"> <div id="siteNotice"></div> </div> <div class="vector-column-start"> <div class="vector-main-menu-container"> <div id="mw-navigation"> <nav id="mw-panel" class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav id="mw-panel-toc" aria-label="Contents" data-event-name="ui.sidebar-toc" class="mw-table-of-contents-container vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-toc-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-toc" class="vector-toc vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-toc-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="toc-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-toc" > <h2 class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Contents</h2> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-United_States,_U.S." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#United_States,_U.S."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>United States, U.S.</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">19 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-United_States,_U.S.-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle United States, U.S. subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-United_States,_U.S.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1</span> <span>Arbitrary break concerning "the States"</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Important_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Important_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Important discussion</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Important_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Use of the word "its" vs the word "the" for referring to Washington DC</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>No mention of "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide"</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">27 comments</span> <ul id="toc-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 October 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Election" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Election"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Election</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Election-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024 (2)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 November 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Third_largest_country_by_land_area" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Third_largest_country_by_land_area"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Third largest country by land area</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Third_largest_country_by_land_area-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 November 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lead" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lead"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Lead</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">16 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Lead-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>"Etazini" listed at Redirects for discussion</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Biased, contentious claims being written as uncontroversial assertions</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Biased, contentious claims being written as uncontroversial assertions subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack_claim" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack_claim"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14.1</span> <span>January 6 United States Capitol attack claim</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack_claim-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Genocide_claim" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Genocide_claim"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14.2</span> <span>Genocide claim</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Genocide_claim-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Portrayal_of_the_United_States_in_World_War_II" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Portrayal_of_the_United_States_in_World_War_II"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14.3</span> <span>Portrayal of the United States in World War II</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Portrayal_of_the_United_States_in_World_War_II-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Other_problems" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Other_problems"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14.4</span> <span>Other problems</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Other_problems-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Two-Party_System" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Two-Party_System"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Two-Party System</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Two-Party_System-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 November 2024</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_subsection_on_"Human_rights""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>A subsection on "Human rights"</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Constitution" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Constitution"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>Constitution</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Constitution-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">United States</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang mw-portlet-lang-icon-only" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector-empty" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. Add the article for other languages" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only mw-portlet-lang-heading-empty" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-language mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-language"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Add languages</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="mw-portlet-empty-language-selector-body"> Page contents not supported in other languages. </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-main" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/United_States" title="View the content page [c]" accesskey="c"><span>Article</span></a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States" rel="discussion" title="Discuss improvements to the content page [t]" accesskey="t"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Change language variant" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">English</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Views"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="istalk vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-addsection" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=new" title="Start a new section [+]" accesskey="+"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=history" title="Past revisions of this page [h]" accesskey="h"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Tools" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Tools</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="More options" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Actions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="istalk vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-addsection" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=new"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=history"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Talk:United_States" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j"><span>What links here</span></a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Talk:United_States" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k"><span>Related changes</span></a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" accesskey="u"><span>Upload file</span></a></li><li id="t-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:SpecialPages" title="A list of all special pages [q]" accesskey="q"><span>Special pages</span></a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&oldid=1259136773" title="Permanent link to this revision of this page"><span>Permanent link</span></a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=info" title="More information about this page"><span>Page information</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTalk%3AUnited_States"><span>Get shortened URL</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTalk%3AUnited_States"><span>Download QR code</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Print/export </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:DownloadAsPdf&page=Talk%3AUnited_States&action=show-download-screen" title="Download this page as a PDF file"><span>Download as PDF</span></a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&printable=yes" title="Printable version of this page [p]" accesskey="p"><span>Printable version</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> In other projects </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1230750088">.mw-parser-output .talkheader{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-body{display:flex}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{display:flex;align-items:center;padding:0.1em}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help{flex:2 1 auto;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#ffffff);color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies+.talkheader-policies{border-left:1px solid #c0c090}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{flex:0 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts>*{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help ul,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies ul{margin:0.1em 0.8em 0 1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/United_States" title="United States">United States</a> article.<br/> This is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a> for general discussion of the article's subject.</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Talk:United_States" title="Special:NewSection/Talk:United States">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? Welcome! <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">Learn to edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">get help</a>.</li></ul> </div> <div class="talkheader-policies"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Be polite</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">avoid personal attacks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">Be welcoming to newcomers</a></li> <li>Seek <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">dispute resolution</a> if needed</li></ul> </div><div class="talkheader-policies"> <div><b>Article policies</b> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">Neutral point of view</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research" title="Wikipedia:No original research">No original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">Verifiability</a></li></ul> </div> </div> </div> </td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><span class="plainlinks"><i>Find sources:</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?as_eq=wikipedia&q=%22United+States%22">Google</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22United+States%22+-wikipedia">books</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%22United+States%22+-wikipedia&tbs=ar:1">news</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22United+States%22">scholar</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbs=sur:fmc&tbm=isch&q=%22United+States%22+-site:wikipedia.org+-site:wikimedia.org">free images</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&cx=007734830908295939403%3Agalkqgoksq0&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BCX%3AWikipedia%2520Reference%2520Search&q=%22United+States%22">WP refs</a>) <b>·</b> <span title="Free English newspaper sources" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_English_newspaper_sources">FENS</a></span> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22United+States%22&acc=on&wc=on">JSTOR</a> <b>·</b> <span title="The Wikipedia Library" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/search/?q=%22United+States%22">TWL</a></span></span></td></tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">Archives</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_index" title="Talk:United States/Archive index">Index</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_1" title="Talk:United States/Archive 1">1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_2" title="Talk:United States/Archive 2">2</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_3" title="Talk:United States/Archive 3">3</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_4" title="Talk:United States/Archive 4">4</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_5" title="Talk:United States/Archive 5">5</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_6" title="Talk:United States/Archive 6">6</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_7" title="Talk:United States/Archive 7">7</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_8" title="Talk:United States/Archive 8">8</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_9" title="Talk:United States/Archive 9">9</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_10" title="Talk:United States/Archive 10">10</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_11" title="Talk:United States/Archive 11">11</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_12" title="Talk:United States/Archive 12">12</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_13" title="Talk:United States/Archive 13">13</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_14" title="Talk:United States/Archive 14">14</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_15" title="Talk:United States/Archive 15">15</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_16" title="Talk:United States/Archive 16">16</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_17" title="Talk:United States/Archive 17">17</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_18" title="Talk:United States/Archive 18">18</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_19" title="Talk:United States/Archive 19">19</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_20" title="Talk:United States/Archive 20">20</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_21" title="Talk:United States/Archive 21">21</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_22" title="Talk:United States/Archive 22">22</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_23" title="Talk:United States/Archive 23">23</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_24" title="Talk:United States/Archive 24">24</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_25" title="Talk:United States/Archive 25">25</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_26" title="Talk:United States/Archive 26">26</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_27" title="Talk:United States/Archive 27">27</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_28" title="Talk:United States/Archive 28">28</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_29" title="Talk:United States/Archive 29">29</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_30" title="Talk:United States/Archive 30">30</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_31" title="Talk:United States/Archive 31">31</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_32" title="Talk:United States/Archive 32">32</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_33" title="Talk:United States/Archive 33">33</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_34" title="Talk:United States/Archive 34">34</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_35" title="Talk:United States/Archive 35">35</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_36" title="Talk:United States/Archive 36">36</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_37" title="Talk:United States/Archive 37">37</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_38" title="Talk:United States/Archive 38">38</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_39" title="Talk:United States/Archive 39">39</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_40" title="Talk:United States/Archive 40">40</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_41" title="Talk:United States/Archive 41">41</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_42" title="Talk:United States/Archive 42">42</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_43" title="Talk:United States/Archive 43">43</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_44" title="Talk:United States/Archive 44">44</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_45" title="Talk:United States/Archive 45">45</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_46" title="Talk:United States/Archive 46">46</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_47" title="Talk:United States/Archive 47">47</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_48" title="Talk:United States/Archive 48">48</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_49" title="Talk:United States/Archive 49">49</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_50" title="Talk:United States/Archive 50">50</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_51" title="Talk:United States/Archive 51">51</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_52" title="Talk:United States/Archive 52">52</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_53" title="Talk:United States/Archive 53">53</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_54" title="Talk:United States/Archive 54">54</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_55" title="Talk:United States/Archive 55">55</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_56" title="Talk:United States/Archive 56">56</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_57" title="Talk:United States/Archive 57">57</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_58" title="Talk:United States/Archive 58">58</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_59" title="Talk:United States/Archive 59">59</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_60" title="Talk:United States/Archive 60">60</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_61" title="Talk:United States/Archive 61">61</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_62" title="Talk:United States/Archive 62">62</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_63" title="Talk:United States/Archive 63">63</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_64" title="Talk:United States/Archive 64">64</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_65" title="Talk:United States/Archive 65">65</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_66" title="Talk:United States/Archive 66">66</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_67" title="Talk:United States/Archive 67">67</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_68" title="Talk:United States/Archive 68">68</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_69" title="Talk:United States/Archive 69">69</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_70" title="Talk:United States/Archive 70">70</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_71" title="Talk:United States/Archive 71">71</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_72" title="Talk:United States/Archive 72">72</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_73" title="Talk:United States/Archive 73">73</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_74" title="Talk:United States/Archive 74">74</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_75" title="Talk:United States/Archive 75">75</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_76" title="Talk:United States/Archive 76">76</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_77" title="Talk:United States/Archive 77">77</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_78" title="Talk:United States/Archive 78">78</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_79" title="Talk:United States/Archive 79">79</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_80" title="Talk:United States/Archive 80">80</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_81" title="Talk:United States/Archive 81">81</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_82" title="Talk:United States/Archive 82">82</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_83" title="Talk:United States/Archive 83">83</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_84" title="Talk:United States/Archive 84">84</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_85" title="Talk:United States/Archive 85">85</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_86" title="Talk:United States/Archive 86">86</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_87" title="Talk:United States/Archive 87">87</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_88" title="Talk:United States/Archive 88">88</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_89" title="Talk:United States/Archive 89">89</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_90" title="Talk:United States/Archive 90">90</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_91" title="Talk:United States/Archive 91">91</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_92" title="Talk:United States/Archive 92">92</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_93" title="Talk:United States/Archive 93">93</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_94" title="Talk:United States/Archive 94">94</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_95" title="Talk:United States/Archive 95">95</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_96" title="Talk:United States/Archive 96">96</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_97" title="Talk:United States/Archive 97">97</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_98" title="Talk:United States/Archive 98">98</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_99" title="Talk:United States/Archive 99">99</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_100" title="Talk:United States/Archive 100">100</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_101" title="Talk:United States/Archive 101">101</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_102" title="Talk:United States/Archive 102">102</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_103" title="Talk:United States/Archive 103">103</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_104" title="Talk:United States/Archive 104">104</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_105" title="Talk:United States/Archive 105">105</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_106" title="Talk:United States/Archive 106">106</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_107" title="Talk:United States/Archive 107">107</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_108" title="Talk:United States/Archive 108">108</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_109" title="Talk:United States/Archive 109">109</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_110" title="Talk:United States/Archive 110">110</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_111" title="Talk:United States/Archive 111">111</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_112" title="Talk:United States/Archive 112">112</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_113" title="Talk:United States/Archive 113">113</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Archive_114" title="Talk:United States/Archive 114">114</a><span style="position: relative; top: 2px; float: right; font-size: 90%; margin-left: 1em;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1038841319">.mw-parser-output .tooltip-dotted{border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help}</style><span class="rt-commentedText tooltip tooltip-dotted" title="Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III after 30 days of inactivity when more than 4 threads are present.">Auto-archiving period</span>: <b>30 days</b> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page#Automated_archiving" title="Help:Archiving a talk page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/16px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/24px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/32px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></a></span></span></td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:United States/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1214851843">.mw-parser-output .hidden-begin{box-sizing:border-box;width:100%;padding:5px;border:none;font-size:95%}.mw-parser-output .hidden-title{font-weight:bold;line-height:1.6;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .hidden-content{text-align:left}@media all and (max-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .hidden-begin{width:auto!important;clear:none!important;float:none!important}}</style><div class="hidden-begin mw-collapsible" style="font-size: 105%"><div class="hidden-title skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="text-align: center"><span class="anchor" id="FAQ"></span><div style="float:left;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States/FAQ&action=edit&preload=Template:FAQ/Preload" title="?"><img alt="?" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/24px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png" decoding="async" width="24" height="24" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/36px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/48px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="20" data-file-height="20"/></a></span> <small><a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/FAQ" title="Talk:United States/FAQ">view</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States/FAQ&action=edit&preload=Template:FAQ/Preload">edit</a></small></div> Frequently asked questions</div><div class="hidden-content mw-collapsible-content" style=""> <div class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r902545367">.mw-parser-output .faqrow{padding:2px 0;font-size:95%}.mw-parser-output .faqrow-title{padding:2px 35px 2px 2px;line-height:1.6em;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .faqrow-body{margin:2px 0 2px 15px;padding:2px}</style> <div class="faqrow-title"> Q1. How did the article get the way it is?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em; min-width:80%;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="3" class="mbox-image" style="width:52px;"> <p><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span> </p> </td> <td class="plainlinks mbox-text"> Archives: </td></tr><tr><td class="plainlinks" style="padding:0px 10px;"> <p><a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Name" title="Talk:United States/Name">Article Name</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Introduction" title="Talk:United States/Introduction">Article Introduction</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Human_Rights" title="Talk:United States/Human Rights">Human Rights</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Culture" title="Talk:United States/Culture">Culture</a> </p> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:United States/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px; text-align:center;"> <hr/> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>30 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span> when more than 4 sections are present.</td></tr> </tbody></table>Detailed discussions which led to the current consensus can be found in the archives of <a class="mw-selflink selflink">Talk:United States</a>. Several topical talk archives are identified in the infobox to the right. A complete list of talk archives can be found at the top of the <a class="mw-selflink selflink">Talk:United States</a> page.<div style="clear:both;" class=""></div></div></div> <div class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title"> Q2. Why is the article's name "United States" and not "United States of America"?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content"><b>Isn't United States of America the official name of the U.S.? I would think that <a href="/wiki/United_States" title="United States">United States</a> should redirect to <a href="/wiki/United_States_of_America" class="mw-redirect" title="United States of America">United States of America</a>, not vice versa as is the current case.</b> <dl><dd>This has been discussed many times. Please review the summary points below and the discussion archived at the <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Name" title="Talk:United States/Name">Talk:United States/Name</a> page. The <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/Name#Vote_-_Should_this_article_be_moved_to_United_States_of_America.3F" title="Talk:United States/Name">most major discussion</a> showed a lack of consensus to either change the name or leave it as the same, so the name was kept as "United States".</dd></dl> <dl><dd>If, after reading the following summary points and all the discussion, you wish to ask a question or contribute your opinion to the discussion, then please do so at <a class="mw-selflink selflink">Talk:United States</a>. The only way that we can be sure of ongoing <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">consensus</a> is if people contribute.</dd></dl> <dl><dd><i><b>Reasons and counterpoints for the article title of "United States":</b></i></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>"United States" is in compliance with the Wikipedia "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NC(CN)" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NC(CN)">Naming conventions (common names)</a>" guideline portion of the Wikipedia <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NAME">naming conventions</a> policy. The guideline expresses a preference for the most commonly used name, and "United States" is the most commonly used name for the country in television programs (particularly news), newspapers, magazines, books, and legal documents, including the <a href="/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States" title="Constitution of the United States">Constitution of the United States</a>. <ul><li><i>Exceptions to guidelines are allowed.</i></li></ul></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>If we used "United States of America", then to be consistent we would have to rename all similar articles. For example, by renaming "<a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a>" to "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland" or <a href="/wiki/Mexico" title="Mexico">Mexico</a> to "United Mexican States". <ul><li><i>Exceptions to guidelines are allowed. Articles are independent from one another. No rule says articles have to copy each other.</i></li> <li><i>This argument would be valid only if "United States of America" was a particularly uncommon name for the country.</i></li></ul></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>Well-established <a href="/wiki/Encyclopedia" title="Encyclopedia">encyclopedias</a> in the <a href="/wiki/English_language" title="English language">English language</a> appear to generally use a "common name" policy for article titles. More specifically, the following use "United States" for the title of the corresponding article: <a href="/wiki/MSN_Encarta" class="mw-redirect" title="MSN Encarta">MSN Encarta</a>, <a href="/wiki/World_Book" class="mw-redirect" title="World Book">World Book</a>, <a href="/wiki/Encyclopedia_Americana" title="Encyclopedia Americana">Encyclopedia Americana</a>, <a href="/wiki/Columbia_Encyclopedia" title="Columbia Encyclopedia">Columbia</a>, <a href="/wiki/Grolier_Multimedia_Encyclopedia" class="mw-redirect" title="Grolier Multimedia Encyclopedia">Grolier</a>, and the Micropaedia and online versions of the <a href="/wiki/Encyclopaedia_Britannica" class="mw-redirect" title="Encyclopaedia Britannica">Encyclopaedia Britannica</a>. In our effort to make Wikipedia an "encyclopedia of the highest possible quality," (<a href="/wiki/Jimmy_Wales" title="Jimmy Wales">Jimmy Wales</a>, "<a class="external text" href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikipedia-l/2005-March/020469.html">Wikipedia is an encyclopedia</a>", <a href="/wiki/March_8" title="March 8">March 8</a>, <a href="/wiki/2005" title="2005">2005</a>, <wikipedia-l@wikimedia.org>) we would do well to emulate what these well-established encyclopedias do. <ul><li><i>The Macropaedia version of Britannica uses "United States of America" for its article title.</i></li></ul></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>With the reliability, legitimacy, and reputation of all <a href="/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation" title="Wikimedia Foundation">Wikimedia Foundation</a> projects under constant attack, Wikipedia should not hand a weapon to its critics by deviating from the "common name" policy traditionally used by encyclopedias in the English-speaking world. <ul><li><i>Wikipedia is supposed to be more than just another encyclopedia.</i></li></ul></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><i><b>Reasons and counterpoints for the article title of "United States of America":</b></i></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>It is the country's official name. <ul><li><i>The country's name is not explicitly defined as such in the <a href="/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_States" title="Constitution of the United States">Constitution</a> or in the <a href="/wiki/Law_of_the_United_States" title="Law of the United States">law</a>. The words "</i>United States of America<i>" only appear three times in the Constitution. "</i>United States<i>" appears 51 times by itself, including in the <a href="/wiki/Oath_of_office#United_States" title="Oath of office">presidential oath or affirmation</a>. The phrase "of America" is arguably just a <a href="/wiki/Prepositional_phrase" class="mw-redirect" title="Prepositional phrase">prepositional phrase</a> that describes the location of the United States and is not actually part of the country's name.</i></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>The <a href="/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation" title="Articles of Confederation">Articles of Confederation</a> explicitly name the country "The United States of America" in <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation_and_Perpetual_Union#Article_1" class="extiw" title="s:Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union">article one</a>. While this is no longer binding law, the articles provide clear intent of the founders of the nation to use the name "The United States of America."</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(common_names)" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)">whole purpose of the common naming convention</a> is to ease access to the articles through search engines. For this purpose the article name "United States of America" is advantageous over "United States" because it contains the strings "United States of America" and "United States." In this regard, "The United States of America" would be even better as it contains the strings "United States," The United States," "United States of America," and "The United States of America." <ul><li><i>The purpose of containing more strings is to increase exposure to Wikipedia articles by increasing search rank for more terms. Although "The United States of America" would give you four times more commonly used terms for the United States, the United States article on Wikipedia is already the first result in queries for <a href="//www.google.com/search?q=United-States-of-America" class="extiw" title="google:United-States-of-America">United States of America</a>, <a href="//www.google.com/search?q=The-United-States-of-America" class="extiw" title="google:The-United-States-of-America">The United States of America</a>, <a href="//www.google.com/search?q=The-United-States" class="extiw" title="google:The-United-States">The United States</a>, and of course <a href="//www.google.com/search?q=United-States" class="extiw" title="google:United-States">United States</a>.</i></li></ul></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></div></div> <div class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title"> Q3. Is the United States really the oldest constitutional republic in the world?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content">1. Isn't <a href="/wiki/San_Marino" title="San Marino">San Marino</a> older? <dl><dd>Yes. San Marino was founded before the United States and did adopt its basic law on 8 October 1600. (<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sm.html">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sm.html</a>) Full democracy was attained there with various new electoral laws in the 20th century which augmented rather than amended the existing constitution.</dd></dl> <p>2. How about <a href="/wiki/Switzerland" title="Switzerland">Switzerland</a>? </p> <dl><dd>Yes, but not continuously. The first "constitution" within Switzerland is believed to be the <a href="/wiki/Federal_Charter_of_1291" title="Federal Charter of 1291">Federal Charter of 1291</a> and most of modern Switzerland was republican by 1600. After <a href="/wiki/Napoleon" title="Napoleon">Napoleon</a> and a later civil war, the current constitution was adopted in 1848.</dd></dl> <p>Many people in the United States are told it is the oldest republic and has the oldest constitution, however one must use a narrow definition of constitution. Within Wikipedia articles it may be appropriate to add a modifier such as "oldest continuous, federal ..." however it is more useful to explain the strength and influence of the US constitution and political system both domestically and globally. One must also be careful using the word "democratic" due to the limited franchise in early US history and better explain the pioneering expansion of the democratic system and subsequent influence. </p> <dl><dd>The component states of the Swiss confederation were mostly oligarchies in the eighteenth century, however, being much more oligarchical than most of the United States, with the exceptions of Rhode Island, South Carolina, and Connecticut.</dd></dl></div></div> <div class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title"> Q4. Why are the Speaker of the House and Chief Justice listed as leaders in the infobox? Shouldn't it just be the President and Vice President?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content">The President, Vice President, Speaker of The House of Representatives, and Chief Justice are stated within the United States Constitution as leaders of their respective branches of government. As the three branches of government are equal, all four leaders get mentioned under the "Government" heading in the infobox.</div></div> <div class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title"> Q5. What is the motto of the United States?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content">There was no <i>de jure</i> motto of the United States until 1956, when "In God We Trust" was made such. Various other unofficial mottos existed before that, most notably "E Pluribus Unum". The debate continues on what "E Pluribus Unum"'s current status is (<i>de facto</i> motto, traditional motto, etc.) but it has been determined that it never was an official motto of the United States.</div></div> <div class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title"> Q6. Is the U.S. really the world's largest economy?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content">The United States was the world's largest national economy from <a href="/wiki/Gilded_Age" title="Gilded Age">about 1880</a> and largest by nominal GDP from about 2014, when it surpassed the <a href="/wiki/European_Union" title="European Union">European Union</a>. China has been <a href="/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)" title="List of countries by GDP (PPP)">larger by Purchasing Power Parity</a>, <a href="/wiki/List_of_countries_by_past_and_projected_GDP_(PPP)#IMF_estimates_between_2010_and_2019" title="List of countries by past and projected GDP (PPP)">since about 2016</a>.</div></div> <div class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title"> Q7. Isn't it incorrect to refer to it as "America" or its people as "American"?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content">In English, <i>America</i> (when not preceded by "North", "Central", or "South") almost always refers to the United States. The large super-continent is called the <i>Americas</i>.</div></div> <div class="faqrow mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r902545367"> <div class="faqrow-title"> Q8. Why isn't the treatment of <a href="/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States" title="Native Americans in the United States">Native Americans</a> given more weight?</div> <div class="faqrow-body mw-collapsible-content">The article is written in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SUMMARY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SUMMARY">summary style</a> and the <a href="/wiki/United_States#Indigenous_peoples" title="United States">sections "Indigenous peoples" and "European colonization"</a> summarize the situation.</div></div> </div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Commons-emblem-issue.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Commons-emblem-issue.svg/40px-Commons-emblem-issue.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Commons-emblem-issue.svg/60px-Commons-emblem-issue.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Commons-emblem-issue.svg/80px-Commons-emblem-issue.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics</a> procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American_politics_2" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2">designated</a> as a contentious topic.</b><p>Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">purpose of Wikipedia</a>, any expected <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette" title="Wikipedia:Etiquette">standards of behaviour</a>, or any <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">normal editorial process</a> may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics procedures</a> before editing this page.</p></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table id="ame" class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-style" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/50px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="26" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/75px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/100px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1235" data-file-height="650"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is <b>written in <a href="/wiki/American_English" title="American English">American English</a></b>, which has its own spelling conventions (<i>color</i>, <i>defense</i>, <i>traveled</i>) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other <a href="/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_English" title="List of dialects of English">varieties of English</a>. According to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">relevant style guide</a>, this should not be changed without <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Levels_of_consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">broad consensus</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1135653291">@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .article-history{min-width:80%}}</style><table class="article-history tmbox tmbox-notice"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Former good article"><img alt="Former good article" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg/50px-Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg/75px-Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg/100px-Symbol_unsupport_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>United States</b> was one of the <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_articles/Geography_and_places" title="Wikipedia:Good articles/Geography and places">Geography and places good articles</a></b></i>, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Good article criteria">good article criteria</a>. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_nominations" title="Wikipedia:Good article nominations">renominated</a>. Editors may also seek a <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment">reassessment</a></b> of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="width:100%"><table class="article-history-milestones mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:90%"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" style="font-size:110%"><span style="float:left"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_question.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Did You Know"><img alt="Did You Know" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/15px-Symbol_question.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/23px-Symbol_question.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/30px-Symbol_question.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_date.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="On this day..."><img alt="On this day..." src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/20px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/30px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/40px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span></span> Article milestones</th></tr><tr style="text-align:left"><th>Date</th><th>Process</th><th>Result</th></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=31414825">December 15, 2005</a></span></td><td><b><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Good article nominee</a></b></td><td>Listed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=51892109">May 7, 2006</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/United_States/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States/archive1">Featured article candidate</a></b></td><td>Not promoted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=52202348">May 8, 2006</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/United_States/archive2" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States/archive2">Featured article candidate</a></b></td><td>Not promoted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=53888193">May 18, 2006</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/United_States/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/United States/archive1">Peer review</a></b></td><td>Reviewed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=61900268">July 3, 2006</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/United_States/archive3" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States/archive3">Featured article candidate</a></b></td><td>Not promoted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=76974796">September 21, 2006</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/United_States/archive2" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/United States/archive2">Peer review</a></b></td><td>Reviewed</td></tr><tr><td>October 19, 2006</td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/United_States/archive4" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States/archive4">Featured article candidate</a></b></td><td>Not promoted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=139239542">June 19, 2007</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/United_States/archive5" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States/archive5">Featured article candidate</a></b></td><td>Not promoted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=224506293">July 9, 2008</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/United_States/1" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/United States/1">Good article reassessment</a></b></td><td>Kept</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=298963267">June 27, 2009</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/United_States/archive6" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/United States/archive6">Featured article candidate</a></b></td><td>Not promoted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=311950730">September 6, 2009</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/United_States/archive3" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/United States/archive3">Peer review</a></b></td><td>Reviewed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=408843044">January 19, 2011</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/United_States/archive4" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/United States/archive4">Peer review</a></b></td><td>Reviewed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=482121399">March 18, 2012</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/United_States/2" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/United States/2">Good article reassessment</a></b></td><td>Delisted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=506806669">August 10, 2012</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/GA1" title="Talk:United States/GA1">Good article nominee</a></b></td><td>Not listed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=506806669">January 21, 2015</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/GA2" title="Talk:United States/GA2">Good article nominee</a></b></td><td>Listed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=974086316">February 22, 2020</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/United_States/3" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/United States/3">Good article reassessment</a></b></td><td>Delisted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&oldid=995167082">December 19, 2020</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/United_States/archive5" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/United States/archive5">Peer review</a></b></td><td>Reviewed</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="width:100%"><div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><div><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_question.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Did You Know"><img alt="Did You Know" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/20px-Symbol_question.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/30px-Symbol_question.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/40px-Symbol_question.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span> A <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/United_States" title="Template:Did you know nominations/United States">fact from this article</a> appeared on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Main Page">Main Page</a> in the <i>"<a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know" title="Template:Did you know">Did you know?</a>"</i> column on <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2015/February#3_February_2015" title="Wikipedia:Recent additions/2015/February">February 3, 2015</a></b>.</div><div class="mw-collapsible-content" style="border:1px silver solid">The text of the entry was: <i>Did you know ... that the <b><a href="/wiki/United_States" title="United States">United States</a></b> accounts for 37% of all <a href="/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures" class="mw-redirect" title="List of countries by military expenditures">global military spending</a>?</i></div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="width:100%"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_date.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="On this day..."><img alt="On this day..." src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/20px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/30px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/40px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span> A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Main Page">Main Page</a> in the <i>"<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries" title="Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries">On this day...</a>"</i> column on <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/223021097" title="Special:PermanentLink/223021097">July 4, 2008</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">Current status: <b>Delisted good article</b></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1243927654">.mw-parser-output .banner-shell{border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:4px}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-header{text-align:center;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{padding:2px 4px;background:#fffaef;color:inherit;border:1px dotted gray}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox{margin:2px 0;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox.mbox-small{line-height:1.5em;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner .banner-shell-outside{display:none}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpbs{width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .assess{width:60px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-header{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em 0.25em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-header{display:table-row}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb:not(.mw-collapsed) .wpb-header-icon a{display:none}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell wpbs mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><td class="assess"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_b_class.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="B-Class article"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Symbol_b_class.svg/35px-Symbol_b_class.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="36" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Symbol_b_class.svg/53px-Symbol_b_class.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Symbol_b_class.svg/70px-Symbol_b_class.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span></td><td class="banner-shell-header" style="text-align:left;font-weight:normal">This <span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/C%C3%ADrculos_Conc%C3%A9ntricos.svg/16px-C%C3%ADrculos_Conc%C3%A9ntricos.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/C%C3%ADrculos_Conc%C3%A9ntricos.svg/24px-C%C3%ADrculos_Conc%C3%A9ntricos.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/C%C3%ADrculos_Conc%C3%A9ntricos.svg/32px-C%C3%ADrculos_Conc%C3%A9ntricos.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="215" data-file-height="215"/></span></span> <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Vital_articles/Level/3#Countries" title="Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/3">level-3 vital article</a></b> is rated <b>B-class</b> on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale.<br/>It is of interest to multiple <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProjects</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256394742">.mw-parser-output .wpb-header,.mw-parser-output .wpb-metadata,.mw-parser-output .wpb-iefix{display:none}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-name{text-align:right;padding:0.3em 1em 0.3em 0.3em;width:50%;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-assessment{text-align:left;width:50%;padding:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-combined{text-align:left;padding:0.3em 0.3em 0.3em 0;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-bubbles{border-radius:.5em;padding:0 .3em;margin-left:0.5em;white-space:nowrap;font-weight:normal;color:black}.mw-parser-output .wpb-nested-task-force{font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-icon{width:50px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#F5F5F5;border-width:1px;width:500px}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main{background-color:#FFFAEF;padding:3px 0 3px 0.7em}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-main{padding:3px 5px}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#FFFAEF}.mw-parser-output .wpb-main>table{background-color:transparent;border:none;padding:0;width:100%;border-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-image{padding:2px 0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-head{text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-notes{padding:0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-notes>table{width:100%;background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-gutter{padding:2px 0 0 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#f8eaba;border:none}.mw-parser-output .wpb-table{table-layout:fixed}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpb{min-width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .assess{font-weight:bold;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;color:black}.mw-parser-output .import-top{background-color:#FFBFFF}.mw-parser-output .import-high{background-color:#FFCCFF}.mw-parser-output .import-mid{background-color:#FFD9FF}.mw-parser-output .import-low{background-color:#FFE7FF}.mw-parser-output .import-bottom{background-color:#FFEBFF}.mw-parser-output .import-na{background-color:#F5F5F5}.mw-parser-output .import-unknown{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .class-fa,.mw-parser-output .class-fl,.mw-parser-output .class-fm{background-color:#BED3FF}.mw-parser-output .class-a,.mw-parser-output .class-al{background-color:#C0FFFF}.mw-parser-output .class-ga{background-color:#C0FFC0}.mw-parser-output .class-b,.mw-parser-output .class-bl{background-color:#DFFFBF}.mw-parser-output .class-c,.mw-parser-output .class-cl{background-color:#FFFFBE}.mw-parser-output .class-start{background-color:#FFDBBF}.mw-parser-output .class-stub,.mw-parser-output .class-sl{background-color:#FFC0C0}.mw-parser-output .class-list{background-color:#D2C0FF}.mw-parser-output .class-na{background-color:#F5F5F5}.mw-parser-output .class-category{background-color:#FFDB58}.mw-parser-output .class-disambig{background-color:#00FA9A}.mw-parser-output .class-draft{background-color:#E7B198}.mw-parser-output .class-file{background-color:#DDCCFF}.mw-parser-output .class-future{background-color:#B4BBFF}.mw-parser-output .class-portal{background-color:#DDB1BC}.mw-parser-output .class-project{background-color:#C0C090}.mw-parser-output .class-redirect{background-color:#C0C0C0}.mw-parser-output .class-sia{background-color:#E9DAFF}.mw-parser-output .class-user{background-color:#DDD06A}.mw-parser-output .class-template{background-color:#FBCEB1}.mw-parser-output .class-unassessed{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .conflict{border:0.2em solid red}.mw-parser-output .inactive-wikiproject .wpb-header-bubbles{color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/35px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="22" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/53px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/70px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="973" data-file-height="609"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States">United States</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Government" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States Government">Government</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-top">Top‑importance</span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles"><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><span title="This article was a past U.S. Collaboration of the Month."><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Crystal_128_kuser.png/20px-Crystal_128_kuser.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Crystal_128_kuser.png/30px-Crystal_128_kuser.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Crystal_128_kuser.png/40px-Crystal_128_kuser.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></span></span></span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/100px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="63" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/150px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg/200px-Flag-map_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="973" data-file-height="609"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239009302">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/32px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="17" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/48px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/64px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1235" data-file-height="650"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:United_States" title="Portal:United States">United States portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States">WikiProject United States</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the <a href="/wiki/United_States" title="United States">United States of America</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><div class="hlist" style="font-size:small; border:1px solid silver; padding:4px; text-align:center; border-radius:10px;"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_United_States#Usage" title="Template:WikiProject United States">Template Usage</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Requested_Articles" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Requested Articles"><b>Articles Requested!</b></a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Members">Become a Member</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_United_States" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States">Project Talk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Article_alerts" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Article alerts">Alerts</a></li></ul> </div><span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">United States</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject United States</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject United States</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">United States articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-top"><a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_United_States_articles" title="Category:Top-importance United States articles">Top</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Top-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_(obverse).svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg/50px-Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg/75px-Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5c/Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg/100px-Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_%28obverse%29.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States_Government" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States Government">WikiProject U.S. Government</a></b>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_128_kuser.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Note icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Crystal_128_kuser.png/30px-Crystal_128_kuser.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Crystal_128_kuser.png/45px-Crystal_128_kuser.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/02/Crystal_128_kuser.png/60px-Crystal_128_kuser.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article was a past <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_States/Collaboration" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Collaboration">U.S. Collaboration of the Month</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WikiProject_North_America.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/WikiProject_North_America.svg/29px-WikiProject_North_America.svg.png" decoding="async" width="29" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/WikiProject_North_America.svg/44px-WikiProject_North_America.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/WikiProject_North_America.svg/58px-WikiProject_North_America.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="500" data-file-height="430"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_North_America" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject North America">North America</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-top">Top‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WikiProject_North_America.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/WikiProject_North_America.svg/80px-WikiProject_North_America.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="69" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/WikiProject_North_America.svg/120px-WikiProject_North_America.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/WikiProject_North_America.svg/160px-WikiProject_North_America.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="500" data-file-height="430"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="map" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/North_America_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg/28px-North_America_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/North_America_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg/42px-North_America_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/North_America_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg/56px-North_America_%28orthographic_projection%29.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="550" data-file-height="550"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:North_America" title="Portal:North America">North America portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_North_America" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject North America">WikiProject North America</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/North_America" title="North America">North America</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_North_America" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject North America">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">North America</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject North America</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject North America</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">North America articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-top"><a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_North_America_articles" title="Category:Top-importance North America articles">Top</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Top-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Release_Version_Criteria#Importance_of_topic" title="Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Release Version Criteria">importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:BlankMap-World.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/BlankMap-World.svg/35px-BlankMap-World.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/BlankMap-World.svg/53px-BlankMap-World.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/BlankMap-World.svg/70px-BlankMap-World.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="2754" data-file-height="1398"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries">Countries</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:BlankMap-World.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/BlankMap-World.svg/100px-BlankMap-World.svg.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="51" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/BlankMap-World.svg/150px-BlankMap-World.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4d/BlankMap-World.svg/200px-BlankMap-World.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="2754" data-file-height="1398"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:P_countries-vector.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/P_countries-vector.svg/31px-P_countries-vector.svg.png" decoding="async" width="31" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/P_countries-vector.svg/47px-P_countries-vector.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/P_countries-vector.svg/62px-P_countries-vector.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Countries" title="Portal:Countries">Countries portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries">WikiProject Countries</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Country" title="Country">countries</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Countries" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Countries</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Countries</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">country articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding:0"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background:transparent;width:100%"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0">WikiProject Countries to-do list:</th></tr><tr><td style="text-align:left;padding:5px;background-color:white;border:1px solid #c0c090;margin-top:5px"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><div class="hlist plainlinks" style="text-align:center;font-size:90%;"><ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Countries%2Fto_do&action=edit">edit</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Countries%2Fto_do&action=history">history</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Countries%2Fto_do&action=watch">watch</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Countries%2Fto_do&action=purge">purge</a></li></ul> </div> <table style="background:none;color:inherit;width:auto;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align:top;"> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/75px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/100px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span><br/><div style="width: 55px; height: 0px;"></div> </td> <td> <div style="position: relative; left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; z-index: 15;">Here are some tasks awaiting attention: <ul style="font-size: 100%; margin: 0px; padding: 0.3em 0px 0.3em 25px;"> <li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles">Article requests</a></i> :</b> Check out the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries/Article_alerts" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries/Article alerts">article alerts</a>; see if anything catches your fancy.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Cleanup" title="Wikipedia:Cleanup">Cleanup</a></i> :</b> <span class="plainlinks" style="border-radius: 7px; font-size: 0.9em; padding: 4px 12px; width: 25em; background-color: #EEE"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://bambots.brucemyers.com/cwb/bycat/Countries.html">clean-up listing for Countries</a><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/User:CleanupWorklistBot" title="the tool's wiki page"><img alt="the tool's wiki page" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f2/Edit-clear.svg/20px-Edit-clear.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f2/Edit-clear.svg/30px-Edit-clear.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f2/Edit-clear.svg/40px-Edit-clear.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></span></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Stub" title="Wikipedia:Stub">Stubs</a></i> :</b> de-stub articles in <a href="/wiki/Category:Stubs_by_region" title="Category:Stubs by region">Category:Stubs by region</a>.</li><li><b><i>Other</i> :</b> add <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:WPCountries" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:WPCountries">WPCountries</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> to <i>talk</i> pages of related articles, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries/Assessment" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries/Assessment">assess</a>.</li> </ul> </div> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Newspaper_Cover.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Media mention" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Newspaper_Cover.svg/40px-Newspaper_Cover.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Newspaper_Cover.svg/60px-Newspaper_Cover.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Newspaper_Cover.svg/80px-Newspaper_Cover.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="120" data-file-height="120"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1214851843"><div class="hidden-begin mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style=""><div class="hidden-title skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="">This article has been <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Press_coverage" title="Wikipedia:Press coverage">mentioned by multiple media organizations</a>:</div><div class="hidden-content mw-collapsible-content" style=""> <ul><li><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite class="citation news cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/wikipedia/6043534/The-50-most-viewed-Wikipedia-articles-in-2009-and-2008.html">"The 50 most-viewed Wikipedia articles in 2009 and 2008"</a>. <i><a href="/wiki/The_Daily_Telegraph" title="The Daily Telegraph">The Daily Telegraph</a></i>. August 17, 2009.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=The+50+most-viewed+Wikipedia+articles+in+2009+and+2008&rft.date=2009-08-17&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Ftechnology%2Fwikipedia%2F6043534%2FThe-50-most-viewed-Wikipedia-articles-in-2009-and-2008.html&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AUnited+States" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation news cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23354613">"Topics that spark Wikipedia 'edit wars' revealed"</a>. <a href="/wiki/BBC_News" title="BBC News">BBC News</a>. July 18, 2013<span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">July 18,</span> 2013</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.atitle=Topics+that+spark+Wikipedia+%27edit+wars%27+revealed&rft.date=2013-07-18&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Ftechnology-23354613&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AUnited+States" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul> </div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1243927654"><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/24px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="24" height="22" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/36px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/48px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text banner-shell-header"><span class="nowrap" style="float:left"> </span>Other talk page banners</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="box-backwards-copy plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Newspaper_Cover.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Newspaper_Cover.svg/50px-Newspaper_Cover.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Newspaper_Cover.svg/75px-Newspaper_Cover.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Newspaper_Cover.svg/100px-Newspaper_Cover.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="120" data-file-height="120"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is substantially duplicated by a piece in an external publication. Since the external publication copied Wikipedia rather than the reverse, please do not flag this article as a copyright violation of the following sources: <ul><li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation cs2">Surhone, L. M., Timpledon, M. T., & Marseken, S. F. (2010), <i>Orson Scott Card: United States, author, critic, public speaking, activism, genre</i>, Betascript Publishing</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Orson+Scott+Card%3A+United+States%2C+author%2C+critic%2C+public+speaking%2C+activism%2C+genre&rft.pub=Betascript+Publishing&rft.date=2010&rft.au=Surhone%2C+L.+M.%2C+Timpledon%2C+M.+T.%2C+%26+Marseken%2C+S.+F.&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AUnited+States" class="Z3988"></span><span class="cs1-maint citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Citation" title="Template:Citation">citation</a>}}</code>: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (<a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_multiple_names:_authors_list" title="Category:CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list">link</a>)</span></li><li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation cs2">Miller, F. P., Vandome, A. F., & McBrewster, J. (2009), <i>Biosphere 2: Biosphere 2, closed ecological system, Oracle, Arizona, Arizona, United States, Biome, space colonization, Biosphere, rainforest, Ed Bass, BIOS-3, Eden project</i>, Alphascript</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Biosphere+2%3A+Biosphere+2%2C+closed+ecological+system%2C+Oracle%2C+Arizona%2C+Arizona%2C+United+States%2C+Biome%2C+space+colonization%2C+Biosphere%2C+rainforest%2C+Ed+Bass%2C+BIOS-3%2C+Eden+project&rft.pub=Alphascript&rft.date=2009&rft.au=Miller%2C+F.+P.%2C+Vandome%2C+A.+F.%2C+%26+McBrewster%2C+J.&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AUnited+States" class="Z3988"></span><span class="cs1-maint citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Citation" title="Template:Citation">citation</a>}}</code>: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (<a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_multiple_names:_authors_list" title="Category:CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list">link</a>)</span></li><li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation cs2">Miller, F. P., Vandome, A. F., & McBrewster, J. (2010), <i>Military journalism: Combatant commander, psychological warfare, United States, public affairs (military), propaganda, journalist, Civil-military operations</i>, Alphascript Publishing</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Military+journalism%3A+Combatant+commander%2C+psychological+warfare%2C+United+States%2C+public+affairs+%28military%29%2C+propaganda%2C+journalist%2C+Civil-military+operations&rft.pub=Alphascript+Publishing&rft.date=2010&rft.au=Miller%2C+F.+P.%2C+Vandome%2C+A.+F.%2C+%26+McBrewster%2C+J.&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AUnited+States" class="Z3988"></span><span class="cs1-maint citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Citation" title="Template:Citation">citation</a>}}</code>: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (<a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_multiple_names:_authors_list" title="Category:CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list">link</a>)</span></li></ul> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width:100%; background-color: #f8eaba;"><tbody><tr><th>Additional comments</th></tr><tr><td style="background-color: white; border: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 0.25em 0.5em;"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><a href="/wiki/OCLC_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="OCLC (identifier)">OCLC</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/636651797">636651797</a>, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><a href="/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISBN (identifier)">ISBN</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:BookSources/9786130336431" title="Special:BookSources/9786130336431">9786130336431</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span title="states"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/22px-Article_blue.svg.png" decoding="async" width="22" height="29" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/33px-Article_blue.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/44px-Article_blue.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="669"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article has been viewed enough times to make it onto the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Popular_pages#Top-100_list" title="Wikipedia:Popular pages">all-time Top 100 list</a>. It has had 237 million views since December 2007.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span title="states"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/22px-Article_blue.svg.png" decoding="async" width="22" height="29" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/33px-Article_blue.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/44px-Article_blue.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="669"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:Top 50 Report">Top 50 Report</a> annual list. This happened in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2007_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2007 Top 50 Report">2007</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2008_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2008 Top 50 Report">2008</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2009_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2009 Top 50 Report">2009</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2010_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2010 Top 50 Report">2010</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2011_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2011 Top 50 Report">2011</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2012_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2012 Top 50 Report">2012</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2013_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2013 Top 50 Report">2013</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2014_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2014 Top 50 Report">2014</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2015_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2015 Top 50 Report">2015</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/2016">2016</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2017_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2017 Top 50 Report">2017</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2018_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2018 Top 50 Report">2018</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2019_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2019 Top 50 Report">2019</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2020_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2020 Top 50 Report">2020</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2021_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2021 Top 50 Report">2021</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2022_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2022 Top 50 Report">2022</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2023_Top_50_Report" title="Wikipedia:2023 Top 50 Report">2023</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/22px-Article_blue.svg.png" decoding="async" width="22" height="29" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/33px-Article_blue.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Article_blue.svg/44px-Article_blue.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="669"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><div class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><div>This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report">Top 25 Report</a> <b>46</b> times. The weeks in which this happened:</div><div class="mw-collapsible-content"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><div class="hlist" style="display:inline-block"><ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/April_7_to_13,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/April 7 to 13, 2013">April 7 to 13, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/April_28_to_May_4,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/April 28 to May 4, 2013">April 28 to May 4, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/May_5_to_11,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/May 5 to 11, 2013">May 5 to 11, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/September_8_to_14,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/September 8 to 14, 2013">September 8 to 14, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/October_6_to_12,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/October 6 to 12, 2013">October 6 to 12, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/October_13_to_19,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/October 13 to 19, 2013">October 13 to 19, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/October_20_to_26,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/October 20 to 26, 2013">October 20 to 26, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/October_27_to_November_2,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/October 27 to November 2, 2013">October 27 to November 2, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/November_3_to_9,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/November 3 to 9, 2013">November 3 to 9, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/November_10_to_16,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/November 10 to 16, 2013">November 10 to 16, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/November_17_to_23,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/November 17 to 23, 2013">November 17 to 23, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/November_24_to_30,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/November 24 to 30, 2013">November 24 to 30, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/December_1_to_7,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/December 1 to 7, 2013">December 1 to 7, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/December_8_to_14,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/December 8 to 14, 2013">December 8 to 14, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/December_15_to_21,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/December 15 to 21, 2013">December 15 to 21, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/December_22_to_28,_2013" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/December 22 to 28, 2013">December 22 to 28, 2013</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/December_29,_2013_to_January_4,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/December 29, 2013 to January 4, 2014">December 29, 2013 to January 4, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/January_5_to_11,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/January 5 to 11, 2014">January 5 to 11, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/January_12_to_18,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/January 12 to 18, 2014">January 12 to 18, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/January_19_to_25,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/January 19 to 25, 2014">January 19 to 25, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/January_26_to_February_1,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/January 26 to February 1, 2014">January 26 to February 1, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/February_2_to_8,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/February 2 to 8, 2014">February 2 to 8, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/February_9_to_15,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/February 9 to 15, 2014">February 9 to 15, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/February_16_to_22,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/February 16 to 22, 2014">February 16 to 22, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/February_23_to_March_1,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/February 23 to March 1, 2014">February 23 to March 1, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/March_9_to_15,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/March 9 to 15, 2014">March 9 to 15, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/March_16_to_22,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/March 16 to 22, 2014">March 16 to 22, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/March_23_to_29,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/March 23 to 29, 2014">March 23 to 29, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/March_30_to_April_5,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/March 30 to April 5, 2014">March 30 to April 5, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/April_27_to_May_3,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/April 27 to May 3, 2014">April 27 to May 3, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/May_4_to_10,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/May 4 to 10, 2014">May 4 to 10, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/September_21_to_27,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/September 21 to 27, 2014">September 21 to 27, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/October_12_to_18,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/October 12 to 18, 2014">October 12 to 18, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/November_9_to_15,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/November 9 to 15, 2014">November 9 to 15, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/November_16_to_22,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/November 16 to 22, 2014">November 16 to 22, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/November_30_to_December_6,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/November 30 to December 6, 2014">November 30 to December 6, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/December_7_to_13,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/December 7 to 13, 2014">December 7 to 13, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/December_14_to_20,_2014" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/December 14 to 20, 2014">December 14 to 20, 2014</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/January_25_to_31,_2015" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/January 25 to 31, 2015">January 25 to 31, 2015</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/April_19_to_25,_2015" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/April 19 to 25, 2015">April 19 to 25, 2015</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/May_10_to_16,_2015" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/May 10 to 16, 2015">May 10 to 16, 2015</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/November_8_to_14,_2015" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/November 8 to 14, 2015">November 8 to 14, 2015</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/March_27_to_April_2,_2016" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/March 27 to April 2, 2016">March 27 to April 2, 2016</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/April_10_to_16,_2016" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/April 10 to 16, 2016">April 10 to 16, 2016</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/May_15_to_21,_2016" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/May 15 to 21, 2016">May 15 to 21, 2016</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Top_25_Report/May_22_to_28,_2016" title="Wikipedia:Top 25 Report/May 22 to 28, 2016">May 22 to 28, 2016</a></li></ul></div></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/40px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/80px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256386598">.mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#F0F2F5;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#CCFFCC;color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}</style> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="background:#F0F2F5; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center; color:#202122"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Section sizes</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <table class="wikitable sortable" style=""> <caption>Section size for <a href="/wiki/United_States" title="United States">United States</a> (50 sections) </caption> <tbody><tr> <th>Section name</th> <th>Byte<br/>count</th> <th>Section<br/>total </th></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#(Top)" title="United States">(Top)</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F80303;">22,327</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8AEAE;font-weight:bold;">22,327 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#Etymology" title="United States">Etymology</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8C3C3;">5,015</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8E9E9;font-weight:bold;">5,015 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#History" title="United States">History</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8F9F9;">113</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F80A0A;font-weight:bold;">69,961 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Indigenous_peoples" title="United States">Indigenous peoples</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8DFDF;">2,460</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">2,460 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#European_settlement_and_conflict_(1607–1765)" title="United States">European settlement and conflict (1607–1765)</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F88A8A;">10,190</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">10,190 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#American_Revolution_and_the_early_republic_(1765–1800)" title="United States">American Revolution and the early republic (1765–1800)</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8B9B9;">5,895</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">5,895 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Westward_expansion_and_Civil_War_(1800–1865)" title="United States">Westward expansion and Civil War (1800–1865)</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F85F5F;">14,077</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">14,077 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Post–Civil_War_era_(1865–1917)" title="United States">Post–Civil War era (1865–1917)</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F89090;">9,599</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">9,599 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Rise_as_a_superpower_(1917–1945)" title="United States">Rise as a superpower (1917–1945)</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8BBBB;">5,701</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">5,701 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Cold_War_(1945–1991)" title="United States">Cold War (1945–1991)</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8B2B2;">6,529</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">6,529 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Contemporary_(1991–present)" title="United States">Contemporary (1991–present)</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F85050;">15,397</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">15,397 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#Geography" title="United States">Geography</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8ADAD;">6,986</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8BEBE;font-weight:bold;">17,702 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Climate" title="United States">Climate</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8D3D3;">3,531</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">3,531 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Biodiversity_and_conservation" title="United States">Biodiversity and conservation</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8ABAB;">7,185</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">7,185 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#Government_and_politics" title="United States">Government and politics</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8DADA;">2,932</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F86464;font-weight:bold;">43,739 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#National_government" title="United States">National government</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F87A7A;">11,637</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">11,637 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Political_parties" title="United States">Political parties</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8E2E2;">2,198</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">2,198 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Subdivisions" title="United States">Subdivisions</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8E2E2;">2,215</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">2,215 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Foreign_relations" title="United States">Foreign relations</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F88585;">10,632</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">10,632 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Military" title="United States">Military</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8B0B0;">6,739</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">6,739 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Law_enforcement_and_criminal_justice" title="United States">Law enforcement and criminal justice</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8A9A9;">7,386</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">7,386 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#Economy" title="United States">Economy</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:red;">22,572</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F85050;font-weight:bold;">49,813 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Science,_technology,_spaceflight_and_energy" title="United States">Science, technology, spaceflight and energy</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F87373;">12,203</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">12,203 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Transportation" title="United States">Transportation</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F85454;">15,038</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">15,038 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#Demographics" title="United States">Demographics</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8FAFA;">63</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F87C7C;font-weight:bold;">37,008 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Population" title="United States">Population</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8B0B0;">6,764</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">6,764 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Language" title="United States">Language</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8BCBC;">5,623</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">5,623 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Immigration" title="United States">Immigration</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8D7D7;">3,217</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">3,217 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Religion" title="United States">Religion</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8B2B2;">6,578</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">6,578 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Urbanization" title="United States">Urbanization</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8E6E6;">1,821</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">1,821 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Health" title="United States">Health</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8B9B9;">5,888</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">5,888 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Education" title="United States">Education</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8ACAC;">7,054</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">7,054 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#Culture_and_society" title="United States">Culture and society</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F84949;">16,023</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:red;font-weight:bold;">72,856 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Literature" title="United States">Literature</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8B3B3;">6,417</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">6,417 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Mass_media" title="United States">Mass media</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8BDBD;">5,570</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">5,570 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Theater" title="United States">Theater</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8DCDC;">2,733</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">2,733 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Visual_arts" title="United States">Visual arts</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8CDCD;">4,136</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">4,136 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Music" title="United States">Music</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8A2A2;">7,990</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">7,990 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Fashion" title="United States">Fashion</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8D6D6;">3,340</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">3,340 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Cinema" title="United States">Cinema</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8B4B4;">6,342</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">6,342 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Cuisine" title="United States">Cuisine</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F88787;">10,463</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">10,463 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Sports" title="United States">Sports</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F88D8D;">9,842</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">9,842 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#See_also" title="United States">See also</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8FAFA;">84</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8FAFA;font-weight:bold;">84 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#Notes" title="United States">Notes</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8F5F5;">459</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8F9F9;font-weight:bold;">459 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#References" title="United States">References</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8FAFA;">30</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8C4C4;font-weight:bold;">15,880 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Sources" title="United States">Sources</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F84B4B;">15,850</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">15,850 </td></tr> <tr> <td><a href="/wiki/United_States#External_links" title="United States">External links</a></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8F5F5;">504</td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8F1F1;font-weight:bold;">2,861 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Government" title="United States">Government</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8F5F5;">496</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">496 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#History" title="United States">History</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8F4F4;">556</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">556 </td></tr> <tr> <td><span style="margin-left:1.6em"><a href="/wiki/United_States#Maps" title="United States">Maps</a></span></td> <td style="text-align:right;background:#F8ECEC;">1,305</td> <td style="text-align:right;color:transparent;">1,305 </td></tr> <tr> <th>Total</th> <th style="text-align:right">337,705</th> <th style="text-align:right">337,705 </th></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="box-Xreadership plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation" style="border-spacing:4px"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Simpleicons_Business_horizontal-bars-chart.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Simpleicons_Business_horizontal-bars-chart.svg/48px-Simpleicons_Business_horizontal-bars-chart.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="48" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Simpleicons_Business_horizontal-bars-chart.svg/72px-Simpleicons_Business_horizontal-bars-chart.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5a/Simpleicons_Business_horizontal-bars-chart.svg/96px-Simpleicons_Business_horizontal-bars-chart.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="485" data-file-height="485"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1214851843"><div class="hidden-begin mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="font-size: 100%;"><div class="hidden-title skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="text-align:center; font-weight: bold;"><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-60&pages=United+States">Daily pageviews</a></span> of this article <span style="font-weight:initial;font-size:100%; padding-left:2em; color:#77">(experimental)</span><div style="margin-top:0.3em; text-align:left; padding-left:2em; font-weight:initial">Pageviews <a href="/wiki/Template:Xviews/summary#Description" title="Template:Xviews/summary">summary</a>: size=61, age=62, days=60, min=33051, max=91687, latest=35754.</div></div><div class="hidden-content mw-collapsible-content" style="background:#fffaef; border:1px dotted gray; padding:2px 4px; text-align: left;"> The <a href="/wiki/Talk:United_States/pageviews" title="Talk:United States/pageviews">pageviews file</a> file is stale; please <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-60&pages=United+States">update it</a></span>; see <a href="/wiki/Template:Xreadership#Instructions" title="Template:Xreadership">§ Instructions</a>.</div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="United_States,_U.S." data-mw-thread-id="h-United_States,_U.S.-20240925163300"><span id="United_States.2C_U.S."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-United_States,_U.S.-20240925163300"></span>United States, U.S.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-United_States,_U.S.-20240925163300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: United States, U.S."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20240925163300-United_States,_U.S."></span>At the very least, the short forms "United States" and "U.S." (two periods standard in American English) should be restored to the first sentence of the lede (not part of an editorial footnote), as they become the country's default names until the end of the article. Incorporating them into a blind EFN violates standard usage in reference works, in which alternative names and initialisms in the text are called out, once, for the reader. To do otherwise is bad form in an encyclopedia. The other names (USA, U.S.A., America) are commonly used the world over, and I think they should appear outside an EFN as well, but they're a minor concern. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20240925163300-United_States,_U.S." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:33, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20240925163300-United_States,_U.S."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20240925163300-United_States,_U.S."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TheWikiToby-20240925173300-Mason.Jones-20240925163300"></span>I just boldly restored specifically the "United States" into the lede, though I'm fine with the other names staying in the footnote. <a href="/wiki/User:TheWikiToby" title="User:TheWikiToby">TheWikiToby</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheWikiToby" title="User talk:TheWikiToby">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-TheWikiToby-20240925173300-Mason.Jones-20240925163300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TheWikiToby-20240925173300-Mason.Jones-20240925163300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TheWikiToby-20240925173300-Mason.Jones-20240925163300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20240925174900-TheWikiToby-20240925173300"></span>Good. The short form "United States" is an exception. I can live with the other terms in a footnote, too. Maybe all that boldface type was a bit unsightly. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20240925174900-TheWikiToby-20240925173300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:49, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20240925174900-TheWikiToby-20240925173300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20240925174900-TheWikiToby-20240925173300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20240925183900-Mason.Jones-20240925174900"></span>Good call.....this is what are featured in good articles do. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20240925183900-Mason.Jones-20240925174900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:39, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20240925183900-Mason.Jones-20240925174900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20240925183900-Mason.Jones-20240925174900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20240925195000-Moxy-20240925183900"></span>I see this has been reverted without any effort to join the two chats.... let's see if they do so now. Blind reverts are always a problem I guess we have to deal with. Weird thing is removing the source that explains things.<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20240925195000-Moxy-20240925183900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:50, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20240925195000-Moxy-20240925183900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20240925195000-Moxy-20240925183900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maxeto0910-20240925195800-Moxy-20240925195000"></span>It's unavoidable for an article this big. Many users will be confused by the immediately visible changes in the first sentence. We have to keep referring to the talk page to show them our motivation behind it. The problem will only gradually solve itself over time when most users got used to it. <a href="/wiki/User:Maxeto0910" title="User:Maxeto0910">Maxeto0910</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maxeto0910" title="User talk:Maxeto0910">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Maxeto0910-20240925195800-Moxy-20240925195000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:58, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maxeto0910-20240925195800-Moxy-20240925195000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maxeto0910-20240925195800-Moxy-20240925195000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Senorangel-20240927025100-Mason.Jones-20240925174900"></span>Most people understand that U.S. and US are equivalent in this context. This can reduce the unsightliness. <a href="/wiki/User:Senorangel" title="User:Senorangel">Senorangel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Senorangel" title="User talk:Senorangel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Senorangel-20240927025100-Mason.Jones-20240925174900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:51, 27 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Senorangel-20240927025100-Mason.Jones-20240925174900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Senorangel-20240927025100-Mason.Jones-20240925174900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dash9Z-20240925213100-United_States,_U.S."></span>I suggest the lead should be "The <b>United States of America</b> (<b>USA</b>), commonly known as the <b>United States</b> (<b>US</b>) or <b>America</b>, is..." since "United States" and "America" are two much used short form names for the country and are commonly used by politicians, businesses, media, athletes, musicians, and everyday people. The initials "USA" and "US" should also be in the lead since the country is commonly referred to as such (especially in sports and media) and other articles about countries or political organizations also include their initials in the lead such as the European Union or Saudi Arabia. The initials with periods ("U.S.A." and "U.S.") do not have to be included in the lead and can be explained as another form of writing the country's initials in the etymology section or in a note. Colloquial forms such as "the States", "Merica", "U.S. of A.", etc, do not belong in the lead since they're very informal and not used widely. <a href="/wiki/User:Dash9Z" title="User:Dash9Z">Dash9Z</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dash9Z" title="User talk:Dash9Z">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Dash9Z-20240925213100-United_States,_U.S." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:31, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dash9Z-20240925213100-United_States,_U.S."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dash9Z-20240925213100-United_States,_U.S."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20240925230000-Dash9Z-20240925213100"></span>This is the wording we had before—and it would be later disputed or reverted. Some editors also felt encouraged to tack on other alternative names like "the States" (which has no business near any encyclopedia). The standard American spelling "U.S.", with periods, is used throughout the article and must be cited that way on first mention. In general, your suggestion opens up the floodgates for busy "improvements" in the lede sentence. For that reason, I think the simpler version is best. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20240925230000-Dash9Z-20240925213100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:00, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20240925230000-Dash9Z-20240925213100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20240925230000-Dash9Z-20240925213100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100-Mason.Jones-20240925230000"></span>"(U.S./US)" looks weird in the article. It should say (U.S. or US). Things were fine before <a href="/wiki/User:HumansRightsIsCool" title="User:HumansRightsIsCool">HumansRightsIsCool</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HumansRightsIsCool" title="User talk:HumansRightsIsCool">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100-Mason.Jones-20240925230000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:41, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100-Mason.Jones-20240925230000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100-Mason.Jones-20240925230000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20240926015000-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100"></span>"Or" it is. However, this all may change back to previous format (<b>United States</b>, officially the <b>United States of America</b>...), as that one has its supporters. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20240926015000-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:50, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20240926015000-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20240926015000-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maxeto0910-20240926050300-Mason.Jones-20240926015000"></span>Yes. I absolutely prefer the previous format. It's shorter, more concise, and makes the first paragraph of the lead look less bloated, while at the same time gives readers some context in the explanatory note, which also contains a source, and even loses one sentence about colloquial names. It's also pretty much the style how many good and featured country articles have it. The United States is just known by many names around the world, and, depending on the region, it could be argued to include a plethora of them, which is why we have to compromise here, and I think the previous format was quite neutral in this regard. Perhaps, we could restore the previous version with the note and give some initials (though this, as Mason.Jones wrote, would be subject to many changes and frequent discussions about which to include; including all four would make the first paragraph of the lead very bloated again), but personally, I absolutely prefer the simplest and most concise form: "The United States, officially the United States of America[note explaining abbreviations, colloquial names, and so on]". <a href="/wiki/User:Maxeto0910" title="User:Maxeto0910">Maxeto0910</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maxeto0910" title="User talk:Maxeto0910">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Maxeto0910-20240926050300-Mason.Jones-20240926015000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:03, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maxeto0910-20240926050300-Mason.Jones-20240926015000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maxeto0910-20240926050300-Mason.Jones-20240926015000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20240926171500-Maxeto0910-20240926050300"></span>@Maxeto0910 -- I prefer your version, just adding the initialism "U.S." (used throughout this article, so it should be introduced to the reader). Thus: "The <b>United States</b> (<b>U.S.</b>), officially the <b>United States of America</b>, is a country..." As you say, other alt names and abbreviations are pretty subjective; they can be addressed in the EFN and/or hashed out under "Etymology." <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20240926171500-Maxeto0910-20240926050300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:15, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20240926171500-Maxeto0910-20240926050300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20240926171500-Maxeto0910-20240926050300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maxeto0910-20241016164100-Mason.Jones-20240926171500"></span>I am still of the opinion that the version with the explanatory note would be the most neutral and concise way of putting it. Perhaps it should be restored when there are no convincing counterarguments? <a href="/wiki/User:Maxeto0910" title="User:Maxeto0910">Maxeto0910</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maxeto0910" title="User talk:Maxeto0910">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Maxeto0910-20241016164100-Mason.Jones-20240926171500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 16 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maxeto0910-20241016164100-Mason.Jones-20240926171500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maxeto0910-20241016164100-Mason.Jones-20240926171500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States"" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States"-United_States,_U.S.-20240926183400"><span id="Arbitrary_break_concerning_.22the_States.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States"-United_States,_U.S.-20240926183400"></span>Arbitrary break concerning "the States"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States"-United_States,_U.S.-20240926183400"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Arbitrary break concerning "the States""><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SashiRolls-20240926183400-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States""></span>Above, Mason.Jones wrote <span style="color:purple">alternative names like "the States" (which has no business near any encyclopedia)</span>. This claim is contradicted by evidence from corpora and dictionaries, which indicate that it is common in both speech (see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/the-states">Longman definition</a>) and in writing (see corpora that follow). </p> <ul><li>the comparison ngram between "back to America/the US/the USA/the States" shows a clear preference for "back to the States" in 2022 in the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=back+to+the+States%2Cback+to+the+US%2Cback+to+America%2Cback+to+the+USA&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en-US&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false">American English corpus</a></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>43% more common than "back to America"</li> <li>twice as common as "back to the US"</li> <li>14.6 times more common than "back to the USA"</li> <li>"back to the States" has been the most frequent form in this phrase <b>since 1941</b>.</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>In the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=back+to+the+States%2Cback+to+the+US%2Cback+to+America%2Cback+to+the+USA&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en-GB&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false">British English corpus</a> the 2022 results are a bit less pronounced: "back to the States" is:</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>15% more common than "to America"</li> <li>90% more common than "to the US"</li> <li>6.2 times more common than "to the USA"</li> <li>"back to the States" has only been the most frequent form in British English since 2009.</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span style="color:#605959;font-size:80%;">pedantic note: case is discriminating, i.e "the States" ≠ "the states" ... cf. <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=back+to+the+States%2Cback+to+the+states&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3">[1]</a></span></dd></dl> <p>Similarly, Longman, Cambridge, Merriam-Webster, and Collins all have a separate entry for "the States" (with Longman helpfully explaining that it is a spoken form most commonly used when speaking of the US from abroad), while Oxford explains that <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">The United States of America is usually shortened to the U.S.A., the U.S., <span style="color:black;background:yellow">the States</span>, or simply America</q>. As such, I would encourage everyone expressing opinions to stick to data and RS. A brief mention of "the States" is justified by RS.-- <a href="/wiki/User:SashiRolls" title="User:SashiRolls"> SashiRolls</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:SashiRolls" title="User talk:SashiRolls"> 🌿 </a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SashiRolls" title="Special:Contributions/SashiRolls"> 🍥</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-SashiRolls-20240926183400-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:34, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SashiRolls-20240926183400-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SashiRolls-20240926183400-Arbitrary_break_concerning_"the_States""></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20240926193700-SashiRolls-20240926183400"></span>By "nowhere near any encyclopedia," I was half joking. I simply meant that "The States" has no place in the introduction to this article (which a few overeager editors are pushing). "The States" is an informal, <b>conversational</b> term, and most often the spoken lingo of British people and American expatriates. It doesn't rise to the level of "USA" and "America"—both widely used <i>in writing and in broadcasting</i> throughout major English-speaking media. The style book of the <i>Economist</i> even gives "America" as the default name to be used in all its text articles about the U.S. "USA" is used throughout the German-speaking media. "US" is used in headline and interior articles of the UK press. "The States", on the other hand, is a slang term of chatting tourists, travel articles, YouTube features about "Taylor Swift's return to the States", etc. It can certainly be discussed under "Etymology" as a conversational term, but it should not appear in the lede along with "U.S.", "USA", or "America." Just like "Murica", it's not in that category. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20240926193700-SashiRolls-20240926183400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:37, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20240926193700-SashiRolls-20240926183400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20240926193700-SashiRolls-20240926183400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Coolcaesar-20240926201200-Mason.Jones-20240926193700"></span>Fully concur with User:Mason.Jones. I couldn't have said it better. As I pointed out above, "the States" is in the wrong <a href="/wiki/Register_(sociolinguistics)" title="Register (sociolinguistics)">sociolinguistic register</a>. Most people understand by the time they're around 15 or 16 years old that "the States" is slang and "the United States" is formal. (I already knew that by the time I was 12, but I was gifted and went to <a href="/wiki/Center_for_Talented_Youth" title="Center for Talented Youth">CTY</a>.) This encyclopedia is written in formal written English. Wikipedia is not a blog where casual slang and anything else goes. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOT">WP:NOT</a>.</dd> <dd>I just poked around Google Books and saw what is going on. "The States" is much more common in British use than in American use, but when you read it in context, it is still clearly an informal slang term. And to be clear, I am very familiar with British English. California is home to many British expat intellectuals who fled the UK's decaying educational system for greener pastures, which is why as a high school senior, I read Chaucer with a graduate of Cambridge. --<a href="/wiki/User:Coolcaesar" title="User:Coolcaesar">Coolcaesar</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coolcaesar" title="User talk:Coolcaesar">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Coolcaesar-20240926201200-Mason.Jones-20240926193700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:12, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Coolcaesar-20240926201200-Mason.Jones-20240926193700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Coolcaesar-20240926201200-Mason.Jones-20240926193700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SashiRolls-20240927054600-Mason.Jones-20240926193700"></span>In the spirit of sticking to reliable sources rather than advancing an undocumented opinion, I'll just note that <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.expat.hsbc.com/international-services/us-expats/">banks</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.hrblock.com/expat-tax-preparation/resource-center/filing/status/how-to-report-foreign-income-without-a-w-2/">tax accountants</a> frequently use the term on their websites as does the Department of Homeland Security ("<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://studyinthestates.dhs.gov/">Study in the States</a>"), and that an acting Secretary of State recently <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://2017-2021.state.gov/u-s-states-and-the-china-competition/">used the term</a> when addressing the National Governors Association. So to call the term "slang" on a par with "Murica" (not found in Oxford, Merriam-Webster, Cambridge, Longman, etc.) is misguided. (The correct linguistic term would be "colloquial", "familiar", or indeed "conversational".) While mentioning "the States" in the etymology section does seem like putting the cart before the horse, if that should be the final consensus, that's fine with me. (<span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1248024126">done</a></span>) :) -- <a href="/wiki/User:SashiRolls" title="User:SashiRolls"> SashiRolls</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:SashiRolls" title="User talk:SashiRolls"> 🌿 </a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SashiRolls" title="Special:Contributions/SashiRolls"> 🍥</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-SashiRolls-20240927054600-Mason.Jones-20240926193700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:46, 27 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SashiRolls-20240927054600-Mason.Jones-20240926193700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SashiRolls-20240927054600-Mason.Jones-20240926193700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241113034300-SashiRolls-20240927054600"></span>Again seeing clutter in the first sentence <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Countries#First_sentence" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries">Wikipedia:WikiProject Countries#First sentence</a>... Best use a note <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241113034300-SashiRolls-20240927054600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:43, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241113034300-SashiRolls-20240927054600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241113034300-SashiRolls-20240927054600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Important_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Important_discussion-20241017161000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Important_discussion-20241017161000"></span>Important discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Important_discussion-20241017161000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Important discussion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241017161000-Important_discussion"></span>Given that the right to political satire isn't protected as it's in Italy (<a href="/wiki/Maurizio_Crozza" title="Maurizio Crozza">Maurizio Crozza</a>: an example of strong political satire), are we sure that the United States is the "strongest protections of free speech of any country"? Certainly it's one of the strongest, but are we sure it's the strongest? <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241017161000-Important_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:10, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241017161000-Important_discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241017161000-Important_discussion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Remsense-20241017161200-JacktheBrown-20241017161000"></span>Jack, please refrain in your copyedits from editorializing on what the sources say if you're not going to check what they say. I personally don't find this distinction illuminating or this characterization of the US compelling, but just make sure you don't change the meaning of sourced prose in your copyedits. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F"><a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense"><span style="color:#fff"><b>Remsense</b></span></a><span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense"><span lang="zh" style="color:#fff"><b>论</b></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Remsense-20241017161200-JacktheBrown-20241017161000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:12, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Remsense-20241017161200-JacktheBrown-20241017161000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Remsense-20241017161200-JacktheBrown-20241017161000"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241109231200-Remsense-20241017161200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a>:</span> "I personally don't find this distinction illuminating or this characterization of the US compelling...". It should be changed, it's too vague; I've the impression that this will never be done. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241109231200-Remsense-20241017161200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241109231200-Remsense-20241017161200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241109231200-Remsense-20241017161200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241017161900-Remsense-20241017161200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a>:</span> you're right, I just wanted to start this discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241017161900-Remsense-20241017161200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:19, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241017161900-Remsense-20241017161200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241017161900-Remsense-20241017161200"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241017164100-JacktheBrown-20241017161900"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a>:</span> Satire is vigorously protected speech in the United States. If it is more protected in Italy, it isn't in some other European countries, where one can be pursued for defamation. That would be difficult in the U.S.—except in the case of copyright infringement or stealing content from others with the aim of satire. The political satire you refer to, vicious parody (used in American political cartoons since the early 19th century), falls under the <a href="/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_U.S._Constitution" class="mw-redirect" title="First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution">First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution</a>. The U.S. Supreme Court confirmed it in <i>Hustler Magazine v. Falwell</i> (1988). See <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/satire/">https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/satire/</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241017164100-JacktheBrown-20241017161900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241017164100-JacktheBrown-20241017161900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241017164100-JacktheBrown-20241017161900"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241017170000-Mason.Jones-20241017164100"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a>:</span> thank you, I will read this very carefully: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/satire/">https://firstamendment.mtsu.edu/article/satire/</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241017170000-Mason.Jones-20241017164100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:00, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241017170000-Mason.Jones-20241017164100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241017170000-Mason.Jones-20241017164100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC" data-mw-thread-id="h-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC-20241019174100"><span id="Use_of_the_word_.22its.22_vs_the_word_.22the.22_for_referring_to_Washington_DC"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC-20241019174100"></span>Use of the word "its" vs the word "the" for referring to Washington DC<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC-20241019174100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Use of the word "its" vs the word "the" for referring to Washington DC"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Maxeto0910" title="User:Maxeto0910">Maxeto0910</a> as I stated in my edit, I do not want to start an edit war, so I have taken this to the talk page. The use of the word "the" is more correct, as it implies that Washington DC is a specific location. <a href="/wiki/User:RedactedHumanoid" title="User:RedactedHumanoid">RedactedHumanoid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RedactedHumanoid" title="User talk:RedactedHumanoid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:41, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100-Use_of_the_word_"its"_vs_the_word_"the"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maxeto0910-20241019174300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100"></span>Why would using "its" not imply that it's a specific location as well? <a href="/wiki/User:Maxeto0910" title="User:Maxeto0910">Maxeto0910</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maxeto0910" title="User talk:Maxeto0910">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Maxeto0910-20241019174300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:43, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maxeto0910-20241019174300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maxeto0910-20241019174300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700-Maxeto0910-20241019174300"></span>The word "its" is generally used to show possession and/or ownership, and while the USA technically does own Washington DC, in this case, we're not trying to imply that the USA has possession of Washington DC. Instead, we're simply trying to imply that it is a specific place. <a href="/wiki/User:RedactedHumanoid" title="User:RedactedHumanoid">RedactedHumanoid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RedactedHumanoid" title="User talk:RedactedHumanoid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700-Maxeto0910-20241019174300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700-Maxeto0910-20241019174300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700-Maxeto0910-20241019174300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maxeto0910-20241019175500-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700"></span>So you think using "its" shifts the focus too much to the fact that Washington, D.C. belongs to the U.S. instead of making clear that it's a "specific place"? I think the term "federal capital district" makes that pretty clear already. <a href="/wiki/User:Maxeto0910" title="User:Maxeto0910">Maxeto0910</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maxeto0910" title="User talk:Maxeto0910">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Maxeto0910-20241019175500-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maxeto0910-20241019175500-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maxeto0910-20241019175500-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100-Maxeto0910-20241019175500"></span>Well, if DC didn't belong to the US, would we be mentioning it in the article? No, we probably wouldn't. <a href="/wiki/User:RedactedHumanoid" title="User:RedactedHumanoid">RedactedHumanoid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RedactedHumanoid" title="User talk:RedactedHumanoid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100-Maxeto0910-20241019175500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:21, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100-Maxeto0910-20241019175500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100-Maxeto0910-20241019175500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maxeto0910-20241019182300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100"></span>If you want to state that it's just as obvious that Washington, D.C. belongs to the U.S. as it is that it's a specific place, then you're right. However, at this level, it's a purely stylistic question, and "its" reads softer and is consistent with the rest of the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:Maxeto0910" title="User:Maxeto0910">Maxeto0910</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maxeto0910" title="User talk:Maxeto0910">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Maxeto0910-20241019182300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maxeto0910-20241019182300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maxeto0910-20241019182300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900-Maxeto0910-20241019182300"></span>That is a good point. Also, @<a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a> has intervened and has stated in the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=United_States&action=history">revision history</a> that "its" should be used instead of "the". Lets put this conversation to rest now. <a href="/wiki/User:RedactedHumanoid" title="User:RedactedHumanoid">RedactedHumanoid</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RedactedHumanoid" title="User talk:RedactedHumanoid">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900-Maxeto0910-20241019182300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900-Maxeto0910-20241019182300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900-Maxeto0910-20241019182300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tulurm-20241102121100-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900"></span>THE Should be used! <a href="/wiki/User:Tulurm" title="User:Tulurm">Tulurm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tulurm" title="User talk:Tulurm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Tulurm-20241102121100-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:11, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tulurm-20241102121100-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tulurm-20241102121100-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide"" data-mw-thread-id="h-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide"-20241026050600"><span id="No_mention_of_.22ethnic_cleansing.22_or_.22genocide.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide"-20241026050600"></span>No mention of "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide"-20241026050600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: No mention of "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide""><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide""></span>I was disappointed but unsurprised to learn that the lead for this page makes no mentions of the ethnic cleansings and genocide(s) of indigenous peoples that are the cornerstone of America's existence as a nation as we know it, but I was actually surprised, thought perhaps I should not have been, that a Ctrl+F for "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" yield no results. While scholars certainly debate the specifics of which events in American history amount to genocide or ethnic cleansing, there is a general consensus that at least some "interactions" between the USA and native peoples constitutes genocide or ethnic cleansing. Not mentioning them here is reprehensible. I will be refactoring the article to change that fact, relying on the reliable sources of course, but am posting my intention here first in case it provea controversial. I am also of the view that the lead should mention these facts, and not doing so is akin to if the <a href="/wiki/Germany" title="Germany">Germany</a> page failed to mention the Holocaust. <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:06, 26 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600-No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide""></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241026163600-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"></span>We've been here before, Brusquedandelion: ideological editors who wish to explain the entire American experience as founded on genocide and nurtured by slavery and exploitation. Moral equivalency: 20th-century monsters like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and worse. Efforts then, and now, to make this article's lede into an ideological whip with a certain political point of view will face stiff opposition. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241026163600-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:36, 26 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241026163600-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241026163600-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241026164200-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a>:</span> your all over the place with this <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Lead_fixation" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Lead fixation">Wikipedia:Lead fixation</a>..could you read over <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RIGHTGREATWRONGS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RIGHTGREATWRONGS">WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Advocacy" title="Wikipedia:Advocacy">Wikipedia:Advocacy</a>. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241026164200-Mason.Jones-20241026163600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:42, 26 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241026164200-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241026164200-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027002400-Moxy-20241026164200"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a> If by "all over the place" you mean literally two country's articles, yes, I am "all over the place". Anyways, a series of comments at a recent RFC at <a href="/wiki/Turkey" title="Turkey">Turkey</a> brought it to my attention that there is a large number of disparities in how different country articles describe major atrocities in their history, whether they mention them in the lead, and the amount of ink they spill on discussing them, both in the body and lead. In general, my Wikipedia editing happens in "campaigns" or "projects" where I will try to edit a number of articles that are closely related in some way, or introduce the same sorts of changes across a broad number of articles; I can see how a certain bad faith interpretation of this could be that I am engaging in "advocacy". I am trying to correct these inconsistencies in the aim of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HTBAE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HTBAE">making Wikipedia a better encyclopedia</a>; the only "great wrong" I am trying to right is Wikipedia not being the best encyclopedia it could be. <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Brusquedandelion-20241027002400-Moxy-20241026164200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:24, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027002400-Moxy-20241026164200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027002400-Moxy-20241026164200"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027001500-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> I am not trying to make any sort of moral equivalences to other nations or individuals, nor did I make any claims about the "entire American experience". I would appreciate if you could read what I actually wrote rather than lumping me in with other people you may have engaged with before. <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Brusquedandelion-20241027001500-Mason.Jones-20241026163600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:15, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027001500-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027001500-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-إيان-20241027201700-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"></span>What makes you think that denial/minimization/normalization of genocide and ethnic cleansing is somehow less ideological? Brusquedandelion is correct. <a href="/wiki/User:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User:إيان">إيان</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User talk:إيان">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-إيان-20241027201700-Mason.Jones-20241026163600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-إيان-20241027201700-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-إيان-20241027201700-Mason.Jones-20241026163600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SashiRolls-20241027010300-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"></span>Odd. There was a fellow who kept deleting any mention of the California genocide despite talk page consensus to include it. I see they <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1228015657">struck again back in June</a></span> and nobody noticed... -- <a href="/wiki/User:SashiRolls" title="User:SashiRolls"> SashiRolls</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:SashiRolls" title="User talk:SashiRolls"> 🌿 </a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SashiRolls" title="Special:Contributions/SashiRolls"> 🍥</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-SashiRolls-20241027010300-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:03, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SashiRolls-20241027010300-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SashiRolls-20241027010300-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027020200-SashiRolls-20241027010300"></span>Thank you for restoring this. <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Brusquedandelion-20241027020200-SashiRolls-20241027010300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:02, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027020200-SashiRolls-20241027010300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027020200-SashiRolls-20241027010300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027022400-SashiRolls-20241027010300"></span>Wikipedia articles are supposed to provide the same weight to different aspects of a topic that appear in reliable sources. Whether or not coverage in reliable sources is fair is irrelevant. It would be helpful to show the extent of coverage of U.S. treatment of aboriginal people in similar articles. The lead for the Encyclopedia Britannica article for example does not mention this although it mentions the people.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.britannica.com/place/United-States">[2]</a> Of course it's only one of many articles we could look at. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Four_Deuces" title="User:The Four Deuces">TFD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Four_Deuces" title="User talk:The Four Deuces">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027022400-SashiRolls-20241027010300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:24, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027022400-SashiRolls-20241027010300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027022400-SashiRolls-20241027010300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bogazicili-20241028120300-SashiRolls-20241027010300"></span>So they removed it back in June and no one noticed? That is crazy. This article has one of the highest page views in entire English Wikipedia. There seems to be 161 page watchers active in the past 30 days. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Bogazicili-20241028120300-SashiRolls-20241027010300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:03, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bogazicili-20241028120300-SashiRolls-20241027010300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bogazicili-20241028120300-SashiRolls-20241027010300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400-Bogazicili-20241028120300"></span>Encyclopedia Britannica is just one (tertiary) source, and anywaya the consensus in previous discussions was to mention the Trail of Tears and California genocides by name in the body. <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400-Bogazicili-20241028120300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:34, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400-Bogazicili-20241028120300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400-Bogazicili-20241028120300"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241027042000-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400"></span>Major encyclopedias don't reference a country's colonial, racial, or imperialistic "atrocities" from a distant past and make them a key feature of that country's existence—not in introductory paragraphs. That's also true in Wikipedia, where 19th-century colonies and indigenous peoples (but no atrocities, as well documented and reprehensible as they are) are mentioned in the ledes of <a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a>, <a href="/wiki/France" title="France">France</a>, <a href="/wiki/Brazil" title="Brazil">Brazil</a>, <a href="/wiki/Belgium" title="Belgium">Belgium</a>, and <a href="/wiki/The_Netherlands" class="mw-redirect" title="The Netherlands">the Netherlands</a>. The exception is when political violence or racial genocide was systematically utilized <i>by the state</i> in modern times (e.g., <a href="/wiki/Germany" title="Germany">Germany</a> and <a href="/wiki/Japan" title="Japan">Japan</a> during the 1940s). I'd hope that editors might see the difference, but I know otherwise. In this article's lede, some Wikipedians have sought to "right all wrongs", and in the service of an anti-American agenda. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241027042000-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241027042000-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241027042000-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010200-Mason.Jones-20241027042000"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1244412712">.mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 32px}.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;margin-top:0}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{padding-left:1.6em}}</style><blockquote class="templatequote"><p>Major encyclopedias don't reference a country's colonial, racial, or imperialistic "atrocities" from a distant past and make them a key feature of that country's existence—not in introductory paragraphs.</p></blockquote></dd> <dd>Fortunately, I am not suggesting we do that. You should again try understanding my actual position before critiquing it. <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010200-Mason.Jones-20241027042000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:02, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010200-Mason.Jones-20241027042000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010200-Mason.Jones-20241027042000"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241027203300-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a>: No, I have read your original post correctly, and you specifically write that (quote) "the lead for this page makes no mentions of the ethnic cleansings and genocide(s) of indigenous peoples." Nor should the lede do so, for the reasons I stated above. Such mentions belong in the body under "History," and after debate, but not in the introduction as an editor's essential "understanding" of the country. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241027203300-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241027203300-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241027203300-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010400-Mason.Jones-20241027203300"></span>Why did you quote my comments about the lead, but not about the body? Do you understand I am not just critiquing the lead? Can I take your refusal to engage with my comments about the body as a sign of your tacit agreement that the body should say more about the genocides/ethnic cleansings of Native Americans? <a href="/wiki/User:Brusquedandelion" title="User:Brusquedandelion">Brusquedandelion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brusquedandelion" title="User talk:Brusquedandelion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010400-Mason.Jones-20241027203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010400-Mason.Jones-20241027203300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010400-Mason.Jones-20241027203300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241028020400-Bogazicili-20241028120300"></span>I just said I have no problem mentioning that history in the body of the article. (I'm actually the one who edited the original passages re the Trail of Tears and the California Genocide just now restored by another editor.) I will still oppose any polemical edits that seek to harp on "U.S. atrocities" of a bygone era or, worse, incorporate them into the lede—not unless we intend to do the same for the brutal 19th-century treatment of the indigenous now absent from the ledes of <a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a>, <a href="/wiki/France" title="France">France</a>, <a href="/wiki/Brazil" title="Brazil">Brazil</a>, <a href="/wiki/Belgium" title="Belgium">Belgium</a>, and <a href="/wiki/The_Netherlands" class="mw-redirect" title="The Netherlands">the Netherlands</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241028020400-Bogazicili-20241028120300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:04, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241028020400-Bogazicili-20241028120300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241028020400-Bogazicili-20241028120300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700-Mason.Jones-20241028020400"></span>Yes I know that "Encyclopedia Britannica is just one (tertiary) source," which is why I wrote, "the Encyclopedia Britannica article for example."</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TERTIARY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TERTIARY">Wikipedia:TERTIARY</a> says, "Policy: Reliable tertiary sources can help provide broad summaries of topics." If this aspect of the topic is significant enough to be in the lead, then you should find a tertiary source that mentions it prominently. Since you said that the Encylopedia is just one tertiary source, I assume you have found others. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Four_Deuces" title="User:The Four Deuces">TFD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Four_Deuces" title="User talk:The Four Deuces">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700-Mason.Jones-20241028020400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:07, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700-Mason.Jones-20241028020400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700-Mason.Jones-20241028020400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-إيان-20241027201900-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700"></span>I would look for quality non-US, non-Western tertiary sources. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">WP:Neutral point of view</a> demands that we consider those sources as well. <a href="/wiki/User:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User:إيان">إيان</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User talk:إيان">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-إيان-20241027201900-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-إيان-20241027201900-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-إيان-20241027201900-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-إيان-20241027204000-إيان-20241027201900"></span>From the <i><a href="/wiki/Heibonsha_World_Encyclopedia" title="Heibonsha World Encyclopedia">Heibonsha World Encyclopedia</a></i> entry on the United States:</dd> <dd>　アメリカ・インディアン，黒人，スペイン系・メキシコ系アメリカ人は，〈移民の国〉アメリカにとっては例外的集団である。アメリカ・インディアンは白人植民者到来以前の先住民である。しかしヨーロッパ諸国の植民勢力進出によって大きな犠牲を強いられた。合衆国時代に入ってからはますます領土を蚕食され，ついには保留地に閉じ込められてしまった。さらに政府の文明化政策により，インディアン諸部族の固有文化は大きな打撃を受けた。黒人は自らの意志に反してアフリカから連れてこられた奴隷を祖先としている。奴隷解放後も，差別制度により二級市民としての生活を余儀なくされてきた。第3にスペイン系・メキシコ系アメリカ人の場合，その祖先はアングロ・サクソン系住民到来以前に合衆国南西部に住んでいた。南西部はスペイン人，ついでメキシコ人が領有した所であった。さらに1910年以降，南西部の経済発展は新たにメキシコから多くの労働者をひきつけ，1910年に始まったメキシコ革命はその移住者の流れに拍車をかけた。安全とよりよい生活を求めて多数の貧しい農民と都市居住者が国境を越えてきたのである。カリブ海のプエルト・リコからの移住者もスペイン系アメリカ人に加えられる。プエルト・リコの貧しい生活から逃れるためにやってきた人たちで，ニューヨーク市にその大半が居住している。これらのスペイン系アメリカ人は近年〈ヒスパニック〉あるいは〈ラティノ〉と呼ばれ，2000年に全米人口の12.6%を占め黒人人口を上回った。</dd> <dd><i>American Indians , blacks, Spanish and Mexican Americans are exceptional groups in the United States, a country of immigrants. <b>American Indians are the indigenous peoples before the arrival of white colonists. However, they suffered great sacrifices due to the advance of European colonial powers. Since the United States era, their territory has been increasingly eroded, and they have finally been confined to reservations.</b> Furthermore, the government's civilization policy has dealt a heavy blow to the unique culture of Indian tribes. Blacks' ancestors are slaves who were brought from Africa against their will. Even after the slaves were emancipated, they have been forced to live as second-class citizens due to a discriminatory system. Thirdly, in the case of Spanish and Mexican Americans, their ancestors lived in the southwestern United States before the arrival of Anglo-Saxon inhabitants. The southwest was owned by the Spanish and then the Mexicans. Furthermore, after 1910, the economic development of the southwest attracted many new workers from Mexico, and the Mexican Revolution that began in 1910 spurred this flow of immigrants. Many poor farmers and city dwellers crossed the border in search of safety and a better life. Immigrants from Puerto Rico in the Caribbean are also included in the Hispanic Americans. They came to New York City to escape the poor life in Puerto Rico, and most of them live in New York City. These Hispanic Americans are now called Hispanics or Latinos, and in 2000 they made up 12.6% of the US population, surpassing the black population.</i> (Google Translate) <a href="/wiki/User:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User:إيان">إيان</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User talk:إيان">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-إيان-20241027204000-إيان-20241027201900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:40, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-إيان-20241027204000-إيان-20241027201900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-إيان-20241027204000-إيان-20241027201900"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Gaung_Tebono" title="User:Gaung Tebono"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-إيان-20241027213000-إيان-20241027204000"></span>Gaung Tebono</a>, why did you delete the above citation? <a href="/wiki/User:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User:إيان">إيان</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User talk:إيان">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-إيان-20241027213000-إيان-20241027204000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:30, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-إيان-20241027213000-إيان-20241027204000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-إيان-20241027213000-إيان-20241027204000"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900-إيان-20241027201900"></span>Of course we can consider these sources in determining due weight, but we cannot use them exclusively to do so.</dd> <dd>Your text btw does not show what weight these observations are given in the article. Is that how the article opens or where exactly is it placed and how long is the article? <a href="/wiki/User:The_Four_Deuces" title="User:The Four Deuces">TFD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Four_Deuces" title="User talk:The Four Deuces">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900-إيان-20241027201900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:19, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900-إيان-20241027201900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900-إيان-20241027201900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-إيان-20241028024500-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900"></span>Obviously it's not to be used exclusively. Also, this conversation isn't only about coverage in the introduction.</dd> <dd>The above text is one of four paragraphs in the section on 住民 'people, residents' on page 5 of 20 of the entry on the US. <a href="/wiki/User:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User:إيان">إيان</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%D8%A5%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%86" title="User talk:إيان">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-إيان-20241028024500-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:45, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-إيان-20241028024500-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-إيان-20241028024500-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-296cherry-20241111181100-Mason.Jones-20241028020400"></span>The American Revolution and the American Civil War could also be described as "from a bygone era", and yet they are mentioned in the lede. What makes the genocide of indigenous Americans any different? Also, claiming that we have to do the same for other Western countries is just <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFF">WP:OTHERSTUFF</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:296cherry" title="User:296cherry">296cherry</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:296cherry" title="User talk:296cherry">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-296cherry-20241111181100-Mason.Jones-20241028020400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-296cherry-20241111181100-Mason.Jones-20241028020400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-296cherry-20241111181100-Mason.Jones-20241028020400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-296cherry-20241111180800-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"></span>I agree with you, the genocide and forced assimilation of indigenous peoples is and has been a major cornerstone for the existence of the United States. It's also quite alarming that zero mention of indigienous displacement exists in the lead, yet there is apparently plenty of space for puffery and praise (how a statement as propagandistic as "...with a political culture promoting liberty, equality, individualism, personal autonomy, and limited government" got in the lead astounds me).</dd> <dd>Also, I find it disturbing that some editors keep characterizing atrocities against Native Americans as from "a distant past" and "a bygone era". There is no need to sugarcoat the history of the United States or downplay the role genocide had in the building of the state. And mentioning that history is certainly not "harping" on U.S. atrocities. <a href="/wiki/User:296cherry" title="User:296cherry">296cherry</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:296cherry" title="User talk:296cherry">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-296cherry-20241111180800-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-296cherry-20241111180800-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-296cherry-20241111180800-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dimadick-20241112003900-296cherry-20241111180800"></span>"political culture promoting liberty, equality" Is this sourced on a text covering <a href="/wiki/Fantasy" title="Fantasy">fantasy</a> and <a href="/wiki/Alternate_history" title="Alternate history">alternate history</a>? We have an entire article covering the <a href="/wiki/Racial_inequality_in_the_United_States" title="Racial inequality in the United States">racial inequality in the United States</a> which is the country's main claim to fame. We also cover the <a href="/wiki/Racial_pay_gap_in_the_United_States" title="Racial pay gap in the United States">Racial pay gap in the United States</a>, <a href="/wiki/Housing_segregation_in_the_United_States" title="Housing segregation in the United States">Housing segregation in the United States</a>, <a href="/wiki/Educational_inequality_in_the_United_States" title="Educational inequality in the United States">Educational inequality in the United States</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Environmental_racism_in_the_United_States" title="Environmental racism in the United States">Environmental racism in the United States</a>. In the <a href="/wiki/Global_Social_Mobility_Index" title="Global Social Mobility Index">Global Social Mobility Index</a>, the United States ranked 27th. <a href="/wiki/Social_mobility" title="Social mobility">Social mobility</a> in the country is less likely than in countries with less rigid <a href="/wiki/Social_stratification" title="Social stratification">social stratification</a> systems, such as <a href="/wiki/Lithuania" title="Lithuania">Lithuania</a> (26th), <a href="/wiki/South_Korea" title="South Korea">South Korea</a> (25th), and the <a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a> (21st). Since when has the political culture even cared about the social problems associated with this ever-present inequality? <a href="/wiki/User:Dimadick" title="User:Dimadick">Dimadick</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dimadick" title="User talk:Dimadick">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Dimadick-20241112003900-296cherry-20241111180800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:39, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dimadick-20241112003900-296cherry-20241111180800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dimadick-20241112003900-296cherry-20241111180800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-296cherry-20241112215600-Dimadick-20241112003900"></span>The phrase "political culture promoting liberty, equality..." should be replaced with a simple statement like "maintains a system of representative liberal democracy" or something like that. <a href="/wiki/User:296cherry" title="User:296cherry">296cherry</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:296cherry" title="User talk:296cherry">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-296cherry-20241112215600-Dimadick-20241112003900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:56, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-296cherry-20241112215600-Dimadick-20241112003900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-296cherry-20241112215600-Dimadick-20241112003900"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241112225000-296cherry-20241112215600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:296cherry" title="User:296cherry">296cherry</a>:</span> I don't like to intervene in a discussion that has very negative words like "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" as its title, but I would like to respond to your comment, since you aren't the OP; I completely agree, the current phrase is a bit too much for the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241112225000-296cherry-20241112215600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:50, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241112225000-296cherry-20241112215600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241112225000-296cherry-20241112215600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024-20241027125800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024-20241027125800"></span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 October 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024-20241027125800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 October 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ZiWinger-20241027125800-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="extended"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>Big cities like <a href="/wiki/Dallas" title="Dallas">Dallas</a>, <a href="/wiki/San_Antonio" title="San Antonio">San Antonio</a>, <a href="/wiki/New_Orleans" title="New Orleans">New Orleans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Oklahoma_City" title="Oklahoma City">Oklahoma City</a>, <a href="/wiki/Miami" title="Miami">Miami</a>, <a href="/wiki/Charlotte" class="mw-disambig" title="Charlotte">Charlotte</a>, <a href="/wiki/Nashville" class="mw-redirect" title="Nashville">Nashville</a>, <a href="/wiki/Washington_DC" class="mw-redirect" title="Washington DC">Washington DC</a>, <a href="/wiki/Philadelphia" title="Philadelphia">Philadelphia</a>, <a href="/wiki/New_York_City" title="New York City">New York City</a>, <a href="/wiki/Boston" title="Boston">Boston</a>, <a href="/wiki/Columbus" class="mw-disambig" title="Columbus">Columbus</a>, <a href="/wiki/Cleveland" title="Cleveland">Cleveland</a>, <a href="/wiki/Indianapolis" title="Indianapolis">Indianapolis</a>, <a href="/wiki/Detroit" title="Detroit">Detroit</a>, <a href="/wiki/Chicago" title="Chicago">Chicago</a>, <a href="/wiki/Minneapolis" title="Minneapolis">Minneapolis</a>, <a href="/wiki/St._Louis" title="St. Louis">St. Louis</a>, <a href="/wiki/Kansas_City" class="mw-redirect" title="Kansas City">Kansas City</a>, <a href="/wiki/Seattle" title="Seattle">Seattle</a>, <a href="/wiki/Las_Vegas" title="Las Vegas">Las Vegas</a>, <a href="/wiki/San_Francisco" title="San Francisco">San Francisco</a>, <a href="/wiki/Los_Angeles" title="Los Angeles">Los Angeles</a> & <a href="/wiki/Phoenix" class="mw-disambig" title="Phoenix">Phoenix</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:ZiWinger" title="User:ZiWinger">ZiWinger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ZiWinger" title="User talk:ZiWinger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-ZiWinger-20241027125800-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:58, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ZiWinger-20241027125800-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ZiWinger-20241027125800-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-M.Bitton-20241027140900-ZiWinger-20241027125800"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/20px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/30px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/40px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="62" data-file-height="62"/></span></span> <b>Not done</b>: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EDITXY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EDITXY">"change X to Y" format</a> and provide a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">reliable source</a> if appropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:M.Bitton" title="User:M.Bitton">M.Bitton</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:M.Bitton" title="User talk:M.Bitton">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-M.Bitton-20241027140900-ZiWinger-20241027125800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:09, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-M.Bitton-20241027140900-ZiWinger-20241027125800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-M.Bitton-20241027140900-ZiWinger-20241027125800"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024-20241106113000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024-20241106113000"></span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024-20241106113000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nicolas_Torcelly_Marco-20241106113000-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="extended"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>President is Donald J. Trump. Vice president is J. D. Vance <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Nicolas_Torcelly_Marco&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Nicolas Torcelly Marco (page does not exist)">Nicolas Torcelly Marco</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nicolas_Torcelly_Marco&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Nicolas Torcelly Marco (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Nicolas_Torcelly_Marco-20241106113000-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nicolas_Torcelly_Marco-20241106113000-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nicolas_Torcelly_Marco-20241106113000-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024"></span> </p><p><b>Not done</b> He isn't president until January. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CRYSTAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CRYSTAL">WP:CRYSTAL</a>. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Election" data-mw-thread-id="h-Election-20241106113000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Election-20241106113000"></span>Election<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Election-20241106113000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Election"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GGManUnited_(Lionel_here)-20241106113000-Election"></span>Someone edit Wikipedia </p><p>President: Donald Trump Vice President: J.D. Vance <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:GGManUnited_(Lionel_here)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:GGManUnited (Lionel here) (page does not exist)">GGManUnited (Lionel here)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GGManUnited_(Lionel_here)" title="User talk:GGManUnited (Lionel here)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-GGManUnited_(Lionel_here)-20241106113000-Election" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:30, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GGManUnited_(Lionel_here)-20241106113000-Election"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GGManUnited_(Lionel_here)-20241106113000-Election"></span> </p><p><b>Not done</b> He isn't president until January. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CRYSTAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CRYSTAL">WP:CRYSTAL</a>. 13:49, 6 November 2024 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)-20241106182900"><span id="Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_.282.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)-20241106182900"></span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024 (2)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)-20241106182900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 November 2024 (2)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="extended"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>Donald Trump is now president. and Kamala Harris is no longer vice president <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:The_Guy_is_taken&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:The Guy is taken (page does not exist)">The Guy is taken</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:The_Guy_is_taken&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:The Guy is taken (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TheWikiToby-20241106183200-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900"></span><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_Clear_app_help_index.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Crystal_Clear_app_help_index.svg/20px-Crystal_Clear_app_help_index.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Crystal_Clear_app_help_index.svg/30px-Crystal_Clear_app_help_index.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2f/Crystal_Clear_app_help_index.svg/40px-Crystal_Clear_app_help_index.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span> <b>Not done for now</b>: Donald Trump is president-elect meaning he is not the president <i>yet</i>. He will be inaugurated in January. <a href="/wiki/User:TheWikiToby" title="User:TheWikiToby">TheWikiToby</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheWikiToby" title="User talk:TheWikiToby">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-TheWikiToby-20241106183200-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TheWikiToby-20241106183200-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TheWikiToby-20241106183200-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400-TheWikiToby-20241106183200"></span>I mean to recall that a country's infobox has been mentioning president-elects as well. Can't the president-elect and the VP-elect be added per the template? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618" title="Special:Contributions/2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618">2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400-TheWikiToby-20241106183200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400-TheWikiToby-20241106183200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400-TheWikiToby-20241106183200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Remsense-20241107080900-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400"></span>Nope. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F"><a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense"><span style="color:#fff"><b>Remsense</b></span></a><span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense"><span lang="zh" style="color:#fff"><b>论</b></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Remsense-20241107080900-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:09, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Remsense-20241107080900-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Remsense-20241107080900-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-20241107173500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-20241107173500"></span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-20241107173500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 November 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="extended"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <pre><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/37.111.10.226" title="Special:Contributions/37.111.10.226">37.111.10.226</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:37.111.10.226&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:37.111.10.226 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024"></span> </pre> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-1"></span>The president of the United States of America is Donald trump <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/37.111.10.226" title="Special:Contributions/37.111.10.226">37.111.10.226</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:37.111.10.226&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:37.111.10.226 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:35, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-1"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-M.Bitton-20241107180400-37.111.10.226-20241107173500"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/20px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/30px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/40px-Red_question_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="62" data-file-height="62"/></span></span> <b>Not done</b>: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EDITXY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EDITXY">"change X to Y" format</a> and provide a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">reliable source</a> if appropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:M.Bitton" title="User:M.Bitton">M.Bitton</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:M.Bitton" title="User talk:M.Bitton">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-M.Bitton-20241107180400-37.111.10.226-20241107173500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-M.Bitton-20241107180400-37.111.10.226-20241107173500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-M.Bitton-20241107180400-37.111.10.226-20241107173500"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Third_largest_country_by_land_area" data-mw-thread-id="h-Third_largest_country_by_land_area-20241110031000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Third_largest_country_by_land_area-20241110031000"></span>Third largest country by land area<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Third_largest_country_by_land_area-20241110031000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Third largest country by land area"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ultrajante-20241110031000-Third_largest_country_by_land_area"></span>It surprised me to see that the source to that statement actually doesn't back that up, in fact it explicitly states something else? </p><p>As far as i understand it, the US has larger water area, but both on land and overall area China is larger, making the US the 4th largest not the third. Therefore how is it that the article is stating this exactly? I'm a bit confused <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ultrajante&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ultrajante (page does not exist)">Ultrajante</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ultrajante" title="User talk:Ultrajante">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Ultrajante-20241110031000-Third_largest_country_by_land_area" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:10, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ultrajante-20241110031000-Third_largest_country_by_land_area"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ultrajante-20241110031000-Third_largest_country_by_land_area"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241110032300-Ultrajante-20241110031000"></span>Few ways to calculate this <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.britannica.com/topic/list-of-the-total-areas-of-the-worlds-countries-dependencies-and-territories-2130540">Britannica has the most common usage</a> ...<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.forbesindia.com/article/explainers/largest-countries-world/92293/1">Forbes shows the other one</a> . See <a href="/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_area" title="List of countries and dependencies by area">List of countries and dependencies by area</a> for more information. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241110032300-Ultrajante-20241110031000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241110032300-Ultrajante-20241110031000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241110032300-Ultrajante-20241110031000"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024-20241110143500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024-20241110143500"></span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024-20241110143500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 November 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-38.188.146.29-20241110143500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="extended"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>in United states, the president says Joe biden, but the president is Donald Trump <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/38.188.146.29" title="Special:Contributions/38.188.146.29">38.188.146.29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:38.188.146.29" title="User talk:38.188.146.29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-38.188.146.29-20241110143500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:35, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-38.188.146.29-20241110143500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-38.188.146.29-20241110143500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seraphimblade-20241110144100-38.188.146.29-20241110143500"></span>Joe Biden is still the president until January. At that time, Donald Trump will become the president. <a href="/wiki/User:Seraphimblade" title="User:Seraphimblade">Seraphimblade</a> <small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seraphimblade" title="User talk:Seraphimblade">Talk to me</a></sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Seraphimblade-20241110144100-38.188.146.29-20241110143500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:41, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seraphimblade-20241110144100-38.188.146.29-20241110143500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seraphimblade-20241110144100-38.188.146.29-20241110143500"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lead" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lead-20241112024000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lead-20241112024000"></span>Lead<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lead-20241112024000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Lead"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241112024000-Lead"></span>Why do the leads of the Italy and Germany articles refer to Fascism and Nazism respectively, while the lead of this article doesn't mention the killing of Native Americans? Further information, although I disagree with the use of the terms "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing", in this thread: <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#No_mention_of_"ethnic_cleansing"_or_"genocide"">Talk:United States#No mention of "ethnic cleansing" or "genocide"</a>.<br/>I would like a peaceful discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241112024000-Lead" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:40, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241112024000-Lead"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241112024000-Lead"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241112025000-JacktheBrown-20241112024000"></span>Keep it very simple with the most appropriate link? <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1244412712"><blockquote class="templatequote"><p>Following its victory in the 1775–1783 Revolutionary War, the country continued to expand across North America <i>resulting in the <a href="/wiki/Native_American_genocide_in_the_United_States" title="Native American genocide in the United States">dispossession of Native populations</a>.</i></p></blockquote> <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241112025000-JacktheBrown-20241112024000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:50, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241112025000-JacktheBrown-20241112024000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241112025000-JacktheBrown-20241112024000"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241112025500-Moxy-20241112025000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a>:</span> can I add or should I wait? <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241112025500-Moxy-20241112025000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241112025500-Moxy-20241112025000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241112025500-Moxy-20241112025000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241112030000-JacktheBrown-20241112025500"></span>Because of the link I'm using ...maybe best to wait.... or perhaps best to be bold and see what others think...not sure. Some may argue that different link like American frontier wars or westward expansion is softer to use. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241112030000-JacktheBrown-20241112025500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:00, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241112030000-JacktheBrown-20241112025500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241112030000-JacktheBrown-20241112025500"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241112030500-Moxy-20241112030000"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a>:</span> thank you. I prefer to wait at least a day. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241112030500-Moxy-20241112030000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:05, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241112030500-Moxy-20241112030000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241112030500-Moxy-20241112030000"></span> <dl><dd><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113031400-JacktheBrown-20241112030500"></span>See below. If it should link to anything, it should link to the <a href="/wiki/American_Indian_Wars" title="American Indian Wars">American Indian Wars</a> page, rather than the heavily contentious claims that the entire process was genocide. It's POV-pushing otherwise. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrangeSharp&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrangeSharp (page does not exist)">OrangeSharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OrangeSharp" title="User talk:OrangeSharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-OrangeSharp-20241113031400-JacktheBrown-20241112030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:14, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a></s><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113031400-JacktheBrown-20241112030500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-OrangeSharp-20241113031400-JacktheBrown-20241112030500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241113032700-OrangeSharp-20241113031400"></span>This was a concern I had.... as many elderly American scholars deny Indigenous genocide in the Americas, despite agreement from international scholars that it occurred (Clarke et al). This is changing as the next generation of American scholars have begun to focus on government policies and lack of action rather than individual accomplishments. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241113032700-OrangeSharp-20241113031400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241113032700-OrangeSharp-20241113031400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241113032700-OrangeSharp-20241113031400"></span> <dl><dd><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113035900-Moxy-20241113032700"></span>I'm <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/20/magazine/genocide-definition.html">very skeptical genocide should be in wikivoice in any article</a>.</s></dd><s> <dd>Jeffrey Ostler in the citation below says it's a minority opinion <i>in 2023</i> or has otherwise not been greatly examined.</dd> <dd>Many <i>young</i> & <i>international </i>scholars deny it as well. The political scientist <a href="/wiki/Eric_Kaufmann" title="Eric Kaufmann">Eric Kaufmann</a> rejects the description. I also found textbooks from Germany, France, the United Kingdom, Japan, and New Zealand that state that genocide is either a poor descriptor or not an accurate description of a majority of interactions. (With exceptions.) Settler-colonialism itself is left-leaning, favors both <a href="/wiki/Conflict_theory" class="mw-redirect" title="Conflict theory">conflict theory</a> and <a href="/wiki/Critical_theory" title="Critical theory">critical theory</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2024/08/how-settler-colonialism-colonized-universities/679514/">isn't accepted among all scholars</a>. Conservative, liberal, and even many Marxist scholars reject its principles, although for very different reasons. Most Native Americans in the United States are also <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-elections/exit-polls">far less radical in their critiques than many white scholars</a>. (Note that I strongly dislike Trump. But I can tell that the harshly critical articles over the past week to the article are due to his victory.)</dd> <dd>This isn't even mentioning the lack of consensus on what genocide even means. Many historians and genocide scholars <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.bbc.com/news/world-11108059">only consider a few events as genocide</a> and don't consider cultural destruction as such. Why are we privileging the view of one group of scholars over another?</dd> <dd>This article is far harsher on the United States than the other "settler colonies" (Australia, Canada, New Zealand) and its chief sponsor. (United Kingdom). In fact, when comparing the "positive" and "negative" phrasing between this page and other articles, it shockingly now ranks <i>far higher</i> than the pages on 1.) Germany, which committed the Holocaust 2.) The Soviet Union, whose ethnic cleansing of Germans killed anywhere between 500,000-2,500,000 million people: 10x-50x the deaths of the wars and ethnic cleansings that that the United States committed on native Americans 3.) Japan, whose war crimes in East Asia during the age of the Japanese Empire led to 10,000,000+ deaths.</dd> <dd>A lot of this is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RIGHTGREATWRONGS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RIGHTGREATWRONGS">WP: RIGHTGREATWRONGS</a> mixed with <a href="/wiki/Critical_theory" title="Critical theory">critical theory</a>/<a href="/wiki/Conflict_theory" class="mw-redirect" title="Conflict theory">conflict theory</a> that is popular among certain sections of academia but predominantly rejected by others within the academy and elsewhere. "Dispossessed" is also emotive-wording and also a problem. Now, maybe this is a "what about other things" case and we shouldn't compare between articles, but it's clear that they're being treated differently, and it's written from a perspective that intended to influence reader's viewpoints about the country. I'm requesting you revert the link, because I don't believe that it improves the article and promotes a particular point of view over another that isn't agreed upon in scholarship.</dd> <dd>This isn't even addressing the recently added claim that <a href="/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack" title="January 6 United States Capitol attack">January 6th</a> in the United States was a "coup" (it's disputed and complicated), the highly disproportionate emphasis on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and claims that the United States only developed through "exploiting" the talents of "immigrant labor" and implications of slavery helping its development.</dd> </s><dd><s>These are quite extraordinary claims and by no means agreed upon. They can be asserted and discussed in related articles in relation to their proportional support in scholarship. They shouldn't be given uncritically in an article that attempts to summarize the totality of American historiography. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrangeSharp&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrangeSharp (page does not exist)">OrangeSharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OrangeSharp" title="User talk:OrangeSharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-OrangeSharp-20241113035900-Moxy-20241113032700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:59, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a></s><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113035900-Moxy-20241113032700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-OrangeSharp-20241113035900-Moxy-20241113032700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241122194500-OrangeSharp-20241113035900"></span>What is most surprising about this POV-pushing (that's exactly what it is) is that the original colonial powers England, France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands were just as brutal toward (respectively) the Indians and Kenyans, Maghrebin and sub-Saharan Africans, the Congolese, Namibians, Abyssinians, and Spice Islanders as the Americans were. Post-colonial Brazil, Mexico, Argentina, and Peru were as brutal (sometimes more brutal) toward their indigenous populations as the Americans. That some editors, quoting from a few academic cultural-studies sources, insist that this article catalogue major U.S. atrocities and, as you mention, <i>make them a key part of American historiography</i> -- while the other country articles refuse to address their own past atrocities -- is very striking. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241122194500-OrangeSharp-20241113035900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:45, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241122194500-OrangeSharp-20241113035900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241122194500-OrangeSharp-20241113035900"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241122230000-Mason.Jones-20241122194500"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a>:</span> what does Italy have to do with it? <b>Why are you trying, unfairly, to involve other countries (besides the U.S.)?</b> It's as if I were trying to justify the crimes committed by <a href="/wiki/Fascist_Italy" title="Fascist Italy">Fascist Italy</a> by writing that other countries also participated negatively in the Second World War; it would be very silly. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241122230000-Mason.Jones-20241122194500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:00, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241122230000-Mason.Jones-20241122194500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241122230000-Mason.Jones-20241122194500"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kowal2701-20241123140400-OrangeSharp-20241113035900"></span>Orange Sharp was a sockpuppet of <a href="/wiki/User:KlayCax" title="User:KlayCax">User:KlayCax</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Kowal2701" title="User:Kowal2701">Kowal2701</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kowal2701" title="User talk:Kowal2701">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Kowal2701-20241123140400-OrangeSharp-20241113035900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:04, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kowal2701-20241123140400-OrangeSharp-20241113035900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kowal2701-20241123140400-OrangeSharp-20241113035900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241122233200-JacktheBrown-20241112030500"></span>The apt comparison is between Americans' treatment of its indigenous and Italy's colonial treatment of indigenous Africans—not Mussolini and the Italian Fascist state of the 1920s. There's no mention whatsoever of Italy's brutal 19th-century treatment of black Africans in the lead of the "<a href="/wiki/Italy" title="Italy">Italy</a>" article. Below the lead, under "History: Liberal Period", there's one weak, understated sentence: "In the last two decades of the 19th century, Italy developed into a <a href="/wiki/Italian_Empire" title="Italian Empire">colonial power</a> by subjugating <a href="/wiki/Italian_Eritrea" title="Italian Eritrea">Eritrea</a>, <a href="/wiki/Italian_Somalia" class="mw-redirect" title="Italian Somalia">Somalia</a>, <a href="/wiki/Italian_Tripolitania" title="Italian Tripolitania">Tripolitania</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Italian_Cyrenaica" title="Italian Cyrenaica">Cyrenaica</a> in Africa."<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> No details about what that "subjugation"" entailed, such as [<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.thecollector.com/first-italo-ethiopian-war/">[3]</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://jacobin.com/2020/09/mussolini-italo-ethiopian-war-fascism-salvemini">[4]</a>. I agree that the "United States" article shouldn't whitewash U.S. history re Native Americans, but European country articles are doing exactly that with the peoples they oppressed: no mentions in lead, a rather euphemistic mention under "History". And when other Wiki articles do exist, there are no links to them in the country article. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241122233200-JacktheBrown-20241112030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:32, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241122233200-JacktheBrown-20241112030500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241122233200-JacktheBrown-20241112030500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241122234400-Mason.Jones-20241122233200"></span>Think it's a matter that many societies have not recognized the atrocities yet. I think a bigger problem is the line in the lead "while the country's political culture promotes liberty, equality, individualism, personal autonomy, and limited government." Liberty and equality are no longer a trait of the United States..... because of individualism and personal autonomy. All these things do not belong together as their contradicting to the facts of reality. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241122234400-Mason.Jones-20241122233200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241122234400-Mason.Jones-20241122233200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241122234400-Mason.Jones-20241122233200"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241123115000-Moxy-20241122234400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a>:</span> <small><span style="display:inline-block;padding:0 1em;line-height:1.75em;border:1px solid #C2C2C2; font-family:sans-serif; border-radius:3px; background:#FFFFFF; text-align:center;" class="plusonetemplate"><span style="color:#D3452A;" class="plusonetemplate">+<span style="font-weight:bold;">1</span></span></span></small>. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241123115000-Moxy-20241122234400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241123115000-Moxy-20241122234400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241123115000-Moxy-20241122234400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241122235200-JacktheBrown-20241112025500"></span>Mox, it's one thing to criticize the "contradictions" there, but quite another to actually start an RfC about it. Go for it. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241122235200-JacktheBrown-20241112025500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:52, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241122235200-JacktheBrown-20241112025500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241122235200-JacktheBrown-20241112025500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241122235800-Mason.Jones-20241122235200"></span>The question should be does the new info added to the lead reflect what is said in the article or the sources that are provided. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Lead_fixation" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Lead fixation">WP:Lead fixation</a> is a problem when random statements are added that don't reflect what is in the article itself. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241122235800-Mason.Jones-20241122235200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:58, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241122235800-Mason.Jones-20241122235200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241122235800-Mason.Jones-20241122235200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-20241112203700"><span id=".22Etazini.22_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-20241112203700"></span>"<a href="/w/index.php?title=Etazini&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Etazini (page does not exist)">Etazini</a>" listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects for discussion</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-20241112203700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: "Etazini" listed at Redirects for discussion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cogsan-20241112203700-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Information.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/30px-Information.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/45px-Information.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/60px-Information.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"/></a></span> The redirect <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Etazini&redirect=no">Etazini</a></span> has been listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">redirects for discussion</a> to determine whether its use and function meets the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirect" title="Wikipedia:Redirect">redirect guidelines</a>. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_12#Etazini" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 12">Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 12 § Etazini</a></b> until a consensus is reached. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Cogsan" title="User:Cogsan"><span style="color:#177013">cogsan</span></a> <sub><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cogsan" title="User talk:Cogsan"><span style="color:#265918">(nag me)</span></a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/cogsan" title="Special:Contributions/cogsan"><span style="color:#265918">(stalk me)</span></a></sub></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Cogsan-20241112203700-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cogsan-20241112203700-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cogsan-20241112203700-"Etazini"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-20241113021600"><span id="Biased.2C_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-20241113021600"></span>Biased, contentious claims being written as uncontroversial assertions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-20241113021600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Biased, contentious claims being written as uncontroversial assertions"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><s>Felt the need to make a Wikipedia account over this. </s></p><p><s>Around the time of the <a href="/wiki/2024_United_States_presidential_election" title="2024 United States presidential election">2024 presidential election</a> (unsurprisingly), a group of editors have added heavily negative, wildly contentious, and hyperbolic claims into the article, despite the assertions being minority viewpoints in the academic fields. </s></p><s><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack_claim" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack_claim-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack_claim-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"></span>January 6 United States Capitol attack claim<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack_claim-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: January 6 United States Capitol attack claim"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div></s><s><ul><li>A claim that the <a href="/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack" title="January 6 United States Capitol attack">January 6 United States Capitol attack</a> is universally regarded as a coup is <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/08/19/jan-6-coup-authoritarianism-expert-roundtable-00052281">false</a>.</li></ul></s><s><p>Ryan McMaken <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/08/19/jan-6-coup-authoritarianism-expert-roundtable-00052281">states</a>: </p></s><s><blockquote><p>Well, my view is that it is a riot in the sense that it’s difficult to attribute any particular goal to the people who were actually involved at the Capitol. I mean, certainly last I checked, 11 people were charged with seditious conspiracy. So that would imply that at least some people involved had some particular goal in mind. But I just don’t think there was enough critical support from inside the regime to support the idea that it was actually a coup.</p></blockquote></s><s><p>Matthew Cleary <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/08/19/jan-6-coup-authoritarianism-expert-roundtable-00052281">states</a>: </p></s><s><blockquote><p>Certainly, riot is an easy way to describe it. Insurrection is better, and I think insurrection would be my preferred term for it. And I agree with Ryan that “coup” is a little too strong, and there are some important differences between what happened on January 6th, on the one hand, and your typical Latin American coup on the other hand. The most important being the lack of participation of any military or police forces of the state. In fact, Trump the man, the person, could not or did not count on the support of any institutional actors, so far as I know. Not the Supreme Court, not the Congress as a whole, although certainly he has some supporters in Congress, not other important institutions of the state.</p></blockquote></s><s><p>Many other scholars dispute the notion that it's a coup but I'm not adding their thoughts for the sake of saving time. </p></s><s><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Genocide_claim" data-mw-thread-id="h-Genocide_claim-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Genocide_claim-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"></span>Genocide claim<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Genocide_claim-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Genocide claim"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div></s><s><ul><li>A claim that there is a consensus that the American government's relationship with Native Americans was genocidal. (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.12987/9780300245264-007/html">Which is a minority view</a>, as stated by Jeffrey Ostler, a historian who <i>believes</i> that much of it should be classified as a genocide.)</li></ul></s><s><blockquote><p>Since 1992, the argument for a total, relentless, and pervasive genocide in the Americas has become accepted in some areas of Indigenous studies and genocide studies. For the most part, however, this argument has had little impact on mainstream scholarship in U.S. history or American Indian history. Scholars are more inclined than they once were to gesture to particular actions, events, impulses, and effects as genocidal, but genocide has not become a key concept in scholarship in these fields.</p></blockquote></s><s><p>He also states that most specialists <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://thepanorama.shear.org/2020/08/04/was-indian-removal-genocidal/">in the subject</a> have preferred using the term "atrocities" or "ethnic cleansing": </p></s><s><blockquote><p>have not argued that the policy was genocidal... Interestingly, however, most recent scholarship on Indian removal, while supporting the view that the policy was vicious and inhuman, has not addressed the question of genocide.</p></blockquote></s><s><p>Historians, genocide scholars, and political scientists that reject the term include <a href="/wiki/Peter_Cozzens" title="Peter Cozzens">Peter Cozzens</a> in <i><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/books/review/earth-is-weeping-peter-cozzens.html">The Earth is Weeping: The Epic Story of the Indian Wars for the American West</a></i>, Gary Clayton Anderson in <i><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Indian-Should-America/dp/0806151749">Ethnic Cleansing and the Indian: The Crime That Should Haunt America</a></i>, and <a href="/wiki/Robert_M._Utley" title="Robert M. Utley">Robert M. Utley</a> in <i><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/anticipating-total-war/total-war-on-the-american-indian-frontier/E780B7779A4390BA62821C1ED2B48DBB">Anticipating Total War: The German and American Experiences, 1871–1914</a></i>. It certainly <i>is</i> a view that has been expressed among scholars. It <i>is not</i> to the extent where it should be stated in wikivoice. </p><p>The word genocide itself is <i>heavily</i> controversial and <a href="/wiki/Genocide_definitions" title="Genocide definitions">there's not even a consensus on what the word</a> <i>means</i>. (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/20/magazine/genocide-definition.html">1</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.bbc.com/news/world-11108059">2</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137280268%202">3</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://gsp.yale.edu/sites/default/files/defining%20genocide%20comparing%20genocides.pdf">4</a>.) </p></s><s><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Portrayal_of_the_United_States_in_World_War_II" data-mw-thread-id="h-Portrayal_of_the_United_States_in_World_War_II-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Portrayal_of_the_United_States_in_World_War_II-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"></span>Portrayal of the United States in World War II<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Portrayal_of_the_United_States_in_World_War_II-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Portrayal of the United States in World War II"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div></s><s><p>Coverage of World War II has finally been modified to seem negative, which seems jarring when you read articles that exist for the <a href="/wiki/Soviet_Union" title="Soviet Union">Soviet Union</a>, <a href="/wiki/Russia" title="Russia">Russia</a>, <a href="/wiki/Japan" title="Japan">Japan</a>, <a href="/wiki/Italy" title="Italy">Italy</a>, and the <a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a> during the same period. The American article nearly exclusively negative descriptions of America during it, focusing on the <a href="/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki" title="Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki">two nuclear bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki</a> and the <a href="/wiki/Trinity_(nuclear_test)" title="Trinity (nuclear test)">Trinity Test</a>. We don't see <a href="/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt" title="Franklin D. Roosevelt">Franklin D. Roosevelt</a> or meetings with Allied leaders. We see a nuclear test clip that's intended to shock the reader. </p><p>The claim that <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.npr.org/2024/08/09/g-s1-16200/did-the-u-s-need-to-drop-two-atomic-weapons-on-japan-in-order-to-end-world-war-ii">the nuclear bombings ended the war is in of itself controversial</a>. So why are we showing a picture of it? </p><p>If I had to take a hunch, however, I'm betting its recent addition was to influence the reader's perception of the country. </p></s><s><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Other_problems" data-mw-thread-id="h-Other_problems-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-20241113021600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Other_problems-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-20241113021600"></span>Other problems<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Other_problems-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-20241113021600"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Other problems"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div></s><s><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113021600-Other_problems"></span>Other language in the history section has been changed to be emotional, and opinionated, making claims such as: </p></s><s><blockquote><p>An explosion of technological advancement accompanied by the exploitation of cheap immigrant labor</p></blockquote></s><s></s><p><s><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Maxeto0910" title="User:Maxeto0910">Maxeto0910</a>:</span>, <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a>:</span>, <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:TFD" class="mw-redirect" title="User:TFD">TFD</a>:</span>, <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a>:</span>, <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a>:</span>. It comes across as a group of editors wanting to list grievances for every real and imagined wrong that the United States has committed in its history. (In the light of <i><a href="/wiki/Donald_Trump" title="Donald Trump">he who shall not be named</a></i> winning the election.) As I haven't been active on Wikipedia in years, I don't have permission to edit, but I'm requesting that these changes are reverted or removed for now. These changes are not neutral. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrangeSharp&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrangeSharp (page does not exist)">OrangeSharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OrangeSharp" title="User talk:OrangeSharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-OrangeSharp-20241113021600-Other_problems" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a></s><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113021600-Other_problems"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-OrangeSharp-20241113021600-Other_problems"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241113032900-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"></span>Mass wall of text..... see if I can get to it on the weekend perhaps. That said not seeing any recommended changes so don't see this going anywhere. Seeing multiple accounts.<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241113032900-OrangeSharp-20241113021600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:29, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241113032900-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241113032900-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113040700-Moxy-20241113032900"></span>The recommended change is that I think that the claims should be removed from the article and discussed in their related pages. There's no agreement among scholars that Jan 6th was a coup, that the entire process of American-Native relations was genocidal, or the hysterical emphasis on claiming the countries growth was the development of slave labor/exploiting the labor of immigrants. You will not find similar wording on <a href="/wiki/Japan" title="Japan">Japan</a>'s, <a href="/wiki/Australia" title="Australia">Australia</a>'s, <a href="/wiki/Canada" title="Canada">Canada</a>'s, <a href="/wiki/Saudi_Arabia" title="Saudi Arabia">Saudi Arabia</a>'s, <a href="/wiki/Iran" title="Iran">Iran</a>'s, <a href="/wiki/France" title="France">France</a>'s, or the <a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a>'s pages. I haven't used Wikipedia in years but there's nothing wrong with me coming back +writing on a talk page about it because the bias is so absurdly egregious.</dd> <dd><s>It's a comment, not an edit, so hard to call it an issue as long as I'm not using misrepresenting myself or even editing the article.</s></dd><s> </s><dd><s>I have just provided 25+ sources to show that all of these claims are disputed within scholarship. Mason.Jones and TFD have both made similar comments to me. Others further back in the page's archives. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrangeSharp&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrangeSharp (page does not exist)">OrangeSharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OrangeSharp" title="User talk:OrangeSharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-OrangeSharp-20241113040700-Moxy-20241113032900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:07, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-OrangeSharp-20241113040700-Moxy-20241113032900"></span></s><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113040700-Moxy-20241113032900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TheWikiToby-20241113040200-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"></span>I can confirm most of these additions from the editors have... no relation to Trump's victory in the recent election. Some of these happened literally months before October even hit.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><b>January 6 United States Capitol attack claim</b> <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">A claim that the January 6 United States Capitol attack is universally regarded as a coup is false</q></dd></dl></dd> <dd>You can hit up with the authors of the 12 sources we've cited to that claim (citations look similar to this <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickrolling">[5]</a>). It's not like Wikipedia pulls information out of the void (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a>).<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><b>Genocide claim</b><br/>I don't know much about America's history with Native Americans, nor am I really that interested, so no comment from me. Just keep in mind that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNDUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNDUE">WP:UNDUE</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FRINGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FRINGE">WP:FRINGE</a> say that Wikipedia's content has to be <i>proportional</i> to how mainstream media describes something. Us editors have no authority to dictate what is <i>correct</i> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RELIABLE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RELIABLE">WP:RELIABLE</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ORIGINALRESEARCH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ORIGINALRESEARCH">WP:ORIGINALRESEARCH</a>).<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><b>Portrayal of the United States in World War II</b><br/>It'd be great if you could give some specific requests for changes here. Are you saying we should tone down mentions of the nukes? The first nukes ever used in war and one of the most well known elements of World War 2 and the Cold War? How does mentioning nuclear weapons negatively affect the image of the US? <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">We see a nuclear test clip that's intended to shock the reader.</q></dd></dl></dd> <dd>How. It's just footage of a nuke (<a href="/wiki/Trinity_(nuclear_test)" title="Trinity (nuclear test)">incredibly well known footage actually</a>!). <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">If I had to take a hunch, however, I'm betting its recent addition was to influence the reader's perception of the country.</q></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ASSUMEGOODFAITH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ASSUMEGOODFAITH">WP:ASSUMEGOODFAITH</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ASPERSIONS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ASPERSIONS">WP:ASPERSIONS</a> <a href="/wiki/User:TheWikiToby" title="User:TheWikiToby">TheWikiToby</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheWikiToby" title="User talk:TheWikiToby">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-TheWikiToby-20241113040200-OrangeSharp-20241113021600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:02, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TheWikiToby-20241113040200-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TheWikiToby-20241113040200-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"></span> <dl><dd><s><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113041700-TheWikiToby-20241113040200"></span>Jan 6th:</b> Yes, some scholars do make that claim, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/08/19/jan-6-coup-authoritarianism-expert-roundtable-00052281">but others disagree</a>. Why should the former's views take precedence? It's a citation overload intended to make the position look undisputed and uncontroversial. That's far from the case.</s></dd><s> <dd><b>Genocide:</b> Jeffrey Ostler, who believes it was, states that <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.12987/9780300245264-007/html">his opinion is a minority</a> within American academia and genocide scholarship.</dd> </s><dd><s><b>Portrayal of the United States in World War II:</b> The image could be replaced with <a href="/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt" title="Franklin D. Roosevelt">Franklin D. Roosevelt</a> meeting with other Allied leaders, American troops fighting against Japanese or German soldiers, similar to the <a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a>, <a href="/wiki/Japan" title="Japan">Japan</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Australia" title="Australia">Australia</a> articles. Nuclear weapons were an important invention during the war but scholars don't agree if the bombings of <a href="/wiki/Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki" class="mw-redirect" title="Hiroshima and Nagasaki">Hiroshima and Nagasaki</a> ended it. I'm okay with mentioning it in that particular section of the article. I'm not comfortable with the page making it the main focus. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrangeSharp&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrangeSharp (page does not exist)">OrangeSharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OrangeSharp" title="User talk:OrangeSharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-OrangeSharp-20241113041700-TheWikiToby-20241113040200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a></s><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-OrangeSharp-20241113041700-TheWikiToby-20241113040200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-OrangeSharp-20241113041700-TheWikiToby-20241113040200"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mason.Jones-20241113171900-OrangeSharp-20241113041700"></span>I agree that some of the standard photos have been replaced by more ideology-driven replacements. Some anonymous editors tend to sweep through and replace photos and illustrations. New photo entries are easy to miss in a large article like this. It's up to all of us to vet them, but it takes more astute vigilance than with general text. Re Trump's "self-coup", four editors decided that Jan. 6 was a self-coup by the president, based on a few media sources they found. I think there's a difference between a president who plans and organizes a coup and one who encourages a ragtag group of would-be insurrectionists. But the four editors' politics and ideology prevailed. I've seen this happen with other WP country articles; "United States" is no exception. <a href="/wiki/User:Mason.Jones" title="User:Mason.Jones">Mason.Jones</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mason.Jones" title="User talk:Mason.Jones">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Mason.Jones-20241113171900-OrangeSharp-20241113041700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:19, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mason.Jones-20241113171900-OrangeSharp-20241113041700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mason.Jones-20241113171900-OrangeSharp-20241113041700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241113194000-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:OrangeSharp&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:OrangeSharp (page does not exist)">OrangeSharp</a>:</span> for your information, <b>I've always maintained that the use of the term "genocide" in a discussion is unacceptable</b> (see <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Lead">Talk:United States#Lead</a> and <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&diff=prev&oldid=1257043133">[6]</a>), but you still wanted to put me in the middle. I'm not blaming you, but you could have avoided it. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241113194000-OrangeSharp-20241113021600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:40, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241113194000-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241113194000-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bogazicili-20241113202600-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"></span>With respect to genocide, this is what Ostler says, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300255362/surviving-genocide/">Surviving Genocide p. 383-384</a> (bolding mine)</dd> <dd><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237805129">.mw-parser-output .talkquote{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:#eaf8f4;border-left:3px solid #008560;padding:0 .8em;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .talkquote-by,.mw-parser-output .talkquote-source{margin-left:1.6em}.mw-parser-output .skin-vector-2022 .talkquote>:last-child{padding-bottom:0}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}</style><blockquote class="talkquote"><p>Since 1992, the argument for a total, relentless, and pervasive genocide in the Americas has become accepted in some areas of Indigenous studies and genocide studies. For the most part, however, this argument has had little impact on mainstream scholarship in U.S. history or American Indian history. Scholars are more inclined than they once were to gesture to <b>particular actions, events,</b> impulses, and effects <b>as genocidal,</b> but genocide has not become a key concept in scholarship in these fields. In part, this is because academic specialists in colonial American and U.S. history are generally inclined against sweeping indictments. The excessive polemics, simplifications, and empirical overreaches in much of the Quincentennial writing made it easy for skeptics to ignore or brush aside. The relative absence of genocide in much of the scholarship in American Indian history can also be explained by the priority given to other agendas, especially the often articulated importance of recovering the agency of Native people against an earlier historiography that supposedly portrayed them simply as victims. Indeed, some Native scholars have cautioned that writing Indigenous histories as genocide risks reinforcing pernicious stereotypes of Indians as vanishing and degraded.</p></blockquote></dd> <dd>Similarly, this article doesn't say US committed genocides against native Americans all the time, but gives <b>specific events</b> such as <a href="/wiki/California_genocide" title="California genocide">California genocide</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Bogazicili" title="User:Bogazicili">Bogazicili</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bogazicili" title="User talk:Bogazicili">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Bogazicili-20241113202600-OrangeSharp-20241113021600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bogazicili-20241113202600-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bogazicili-20241113202600-OrangeSharp-20241113021600"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Two-Party_System" data-mw-thread-id="h-Two-Party_System-20241118211400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Two-Party_System-20241118211400"></span>Two-Party System<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Two-Party_System-20241118211400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Two-Party System"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cnscrptr-20241118211400-Two-Party_System"></span>Given how two parties, the Republican and Democratic party, dominate American politics, should the US be described as a "Federal two-party dominant presidential republic"? <a href="/wiki/User:Cnscrptr" title="User:Cnscrptr">Cnscrptr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cnscrptr" title="User talk:Cnscrptr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Cnscrptr-20241118211400-Two-Party_System" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:14, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cnscrptr-20241118211400-Two-Party_System"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cnscrptr-20241118211400-Two-Party_System"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Remsense-20241118211500-Cnscrptr-20241118211400"></span>No, because that's a term you invented out of thin air. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F"><a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense"><span style="color:#fff"><b>Remsense</b></span></a><span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense"><span lang="zh" style="color:#fff"><b>论</b></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Remsense-20241118211500-Cnscrptr-20241118211400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Remsense-20241118211500-Cnscrptr-20241118211400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Remsense-20241118211500-Cnscrptr-20241118211400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cnscrptr-20241118234900-Remsense-20241118211500"></span>Great apologies for not being perfect in the intricate language of semantics!!! Two-Party system is the correct term, especially relating to the Republicans and Democrats' political dominance, albeit I don't know if the US should be described that way. <a href="/wiki/User:Cnscrptr" title="User:Cnscrptr">Cnscrptr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cnscrptr" title="User talk:Cnscrptr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Cnscrptr-20241118234900-Remsense-20241118211500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cnscrptr-20241118234900-Remsense-20241118211500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cnscrptr-20241118234900-Remsense-20241118211500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Remsense-20241119000400-Cnscrptr-20241118234900"></span>Apologies for the venom, but the issue is fundamentally deeper, in that we reflect how sources tend to characterize entities. "One-party state" is a common term, while "two-party state", "duopoly" inter alia are not. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F"><a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense"><span style="color:#fff"><b>Remsense</b></span></a><span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense"><span lang="zh" style="color:#fff"><b>论</b></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Remsense-20241119000400-Cnscrptr-20241118234900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:04, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Remsense-20241119000400-Cnscrptr-20241118234900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Remsense-20241119000400-Cnscrptr-20241118234900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cnscrptr-20241119000600-Remsense-20241119000400"></span>Alright then, we will not move on with this motion. Glad we settled the matter. <a href="/wiki/User:Cnscrptr" title="User:Cnscrptr">Cnscrptr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cnscrptr" title="User talk:Cnscrptr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Cnscrptr-20241119000600-Remsense-20241119000400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cnscrptr-20241119000600-Remsense-20241119000400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cnscrptr-20241119000600-Remsense-20241119000400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024-20241118233600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024-20241118233600"></span>Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024-20241118233600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 November 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-167.206.19.12-20241118233600-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="extended"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to <b>no</b> to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>change “Mark Twain, who William Faulkner called ‘the father of American literature’” to “Mark Twain, whom William Faulkner called ‘the father of American literature’” <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/167.206.19.12" title="Special:Contributions/167.206.19.12">167.206.19.12</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:167.206.19.12" title="User talk:167.206.19.12">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-167.206.19.12-20241118233600-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:36, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-167.206.19.12-20241118233600-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-167.206.19.12-20241118233600-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cnscrptr-20241118235500-167.206.19.12-20241118233600"></span>Done <a href="/wiki/User:Cnscrptr" title="User:Cnscrptr">Cnscrptr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cnscrptr" title="User talk:Cnscrptr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Cnscrptr-20241118235500-167.206.19.12-20241118233600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cnscrptr-20241118235500-167.206.19.12-20241118233600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cnscrptr-20241118235500-167.206.19.12-20241118233600"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_subsection_on_"Human_rights"" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights"-20241120023900"><span id="A_subsection_on_.22Human_rights.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights"-20241120023900"></span>A subsection on "Human rights"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights"-20241120023900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: A subsection on "Human rights""><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JasonMacker-20241120023900-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights""></span>Currently, the article only very briefly mentions human rights, and the mention is simply to say that the United States has a high ranking on V-Dem. The wikilink in the introduction links to <a href="/wiki/Human_rights_in_the_United_States" title="Human rights in the United States">Human rights in the United States</a>, which very clearly details a lot of facts about the United States that are simply not mentioned here. As noted in the "Human rights in the United States" article, the United States has been criticized by Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and other organizations for its use of the death penalty, police brutality, racial discrimination, and mass incarceration. And that's just on the domestic front. I'm not going to rehash what's listed in the "Human rights in the United States" article, but that article clearly shows that there is more to discuss regarding human rights in the United States than to just have 1 sentence proclaiming that some think tank gives the US a high ranking in human rights. Plenty of other country articles have a subsection on human rights (see <a href="/wiki/Japan" title="Japan">Japan</a>, <a href="/wiki/Mexico" title="Mexico">Mexico</a>, <a href="/wiki/Brazil" title="Brazil">Brazil</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Spain" title="Spain">Spain</a>. In addition, <a href="/wiki/Czech_Republic" title="Czech Republic">Czech Republic</a> has a subsection on human rights while being given a higher ranking than the US by V-Dem). There's no reason for this country to not also have a human rights section, especially given how notable human rights violations in/by the United States are in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">reliable sources</a>. This article is giving <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNDUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNDUE">too much weight</a> to V-Dem and not enough weight to international human rights organizations. <a href="/wiki/User:JasonMacker" title="User:JasonMacker">JasonMacker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JasonMacker" title="User talk:JasonMacker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JasonMacker-20241120023900-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:39, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JasonMacker-20241120023900-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JasonMacker-20241120023900-A_subsection_on_"Human_rights""></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241120024500-JasonMacker-20241120023900"></span>In my view human rights should be integrated into law section.<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241120024500-JasonMacker-20241120023900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:45, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241120024500-JasonMacker-20241120023900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241120024500-JasonMacker-20241120023900"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JacktheBrown-20241122162100-Moxy-20241120024500"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a>:</span> what do we do? Do we delete the sentence or create a subsection that includes the score given by Amnesty International? Among other things, some U.S. states still have the death penalty, so it's very strange, as well as wrong and not honest, to refer to one of the highest human rights scores without even mentioning any criticism. <a href="/wiki/User:JacktheBrown" title="User:JacktheBrown">JacktheBrown</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JacktheBrown" title="User talk:JacktheBrown">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-JacktheBrown-20241122162100-Moxy-20241120024500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:21, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JacktheBrown-20241122162100-Moxy-20241120024500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JacktheBrown-20241122162100-Moxy-20241120024500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241122171500-JacktheBrown-20241122162100"></span>Wont fly here Americans think they do well with human rights as they were once leaders in the field because of the legal framework - the fact that all 37 developed economies in the world and another dozen or so non-developed economies have better human rights records now shows how far behind USA is today.. For example, the Freedom in the World index lists the United States 53rd in the world.....read more at <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFDakwarElessawy2023" class="citation web cs1">Dakwar, Jamil; Elessawy, Marwa (November 15, 2023). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.aclu.org/news/human-rights/the-u-s-touts-itself-as-a-global-leader-in-human-rights-a-new-u-n-report-says-otherwise">"The U.S. Touts Itself as a Global Leader in Human Rights. A New U.N. Report Says Otherwise"</a>. <i>American Civil Liberties Union</i>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=unknown&rft.jtitle=American+Civil+Liberties+Union&rft.atitle=The+U.S.+Touts+Itself+as+a+Global+Leader+in+Human+Rights.+A+New+U.N.+Report+Says+Otherwise.&rft.date=2023-11-15&rft.aulast=Dakwar&rft.aufirst=Jamil&rft.au=Elessawy%2C+Marwa&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aclu.org%2Fnews%2Fhuman-rights%2Fthe-u-s-touts-itself-as-a-global-leader-in-human-rights-a-new-u-n-report-says-otherwise&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3AUnited+States" class="Z3988"></span> <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241122171500-JacktheBrown-20241122162100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241122171500-JacktheBrown-20241122162100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241122171500-JacktheBrown-20241122162100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chipmunkdavis-20241123022900-JacktheBrown-20241122162100"></span>I am not a fan of including rankings in the lead (consensus is against me this is not an attempt to reopen that), but one thing they should do is by default integrating all the criticism. Higher and lower rankings presumably depend on the relative positive and negative aspects. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Chipmunkdavis-20241123022900-JacktheBrown-20241122162100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chipmunkdavis-20241123022900-JacktheBrown-20241122162100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chipmunkdavis-20241123022900-JacktheBrown-20241122162100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600-JasonMacker-20241120023900"></span>The article should mention where the U.S. is an outlier among other Western democracies, in capital punishment, abortion, incarceration rates, poverty, income inequality, universal health care, higher education costs, longevity, drug addiction, covid vaccinations and deaths, ideological diversity, etc. However, there are so many ways the U.S. differs, it cannot all be in the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Four_Deuces" title="User:The Four Deuces">TFD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Four_Deuces" title="User talk:The Four Deuces">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600-JasonMacker-20241120023900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:46, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600-JasonMacker-20241120023900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600-JasonMacker-20241120023900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Moxy-20241123030200-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600"></span>I believe the article does touch on this.... perhaps not extensively.... But does so in the appropriate sections. The main concern is the lead that doesn't seem to match the prose in the article. Overall the country is a net positive for these types of things.... but has domestic concerns that the world looks at for example of what not to do..... or simply that is not as progressive as they used to be. <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue"><a href="/wiki/User:Moxy" title="User:Moxy">Moxy</a></span>🍁 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Moxy-20241123030200-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:02, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Moxy-20241123030200-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Moxy-20241123030200-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Constitution" data-mw-thread-id="h-Constitution-20241120095300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Constitution-20241120095300"></span>Constitution<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Constitution-20241120095300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Constitution"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-193.235.94.164-20241120095300-Constitution"></span>The Constitution came into legal effect on March 4th 1789 why is the ratification date used instead while all the other dates are when the documents came into effect. An example is the Article of Confederation which was ratified on February 2nd 1781 but came into effect on March 1st so we should change the date of the Constitution on the introduction part of the page to March 4th 1789 <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/193.235.94.164" title="Special:Contributions/193.235.94.164">193.235.94.164</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:193.235.94.164&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:193.235.94.164 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-193.235.94.164-20241120095300-Constitution" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-193.235.94.164-20241120095300-Constitution"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-193.235.94.164-20241120095300-Constitution"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-UnsungHistory-20241121224100-193.235.94.164-20241120095300"></span>Please see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-constitution/#:~:text=After%20New%20Hampshire%20became%20the,ratify%20on%20May%2029%2C%201790.">this source</a> <span style="color: Purple"><a href="/wiki/User:UnsungHistory" title="User:UnsungHistory">UnsungHistory</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:UnsungHistory" title="User talk:UnsungHistory">Wrong</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/UnsungHistory" title="Special:Contributions/UnsungHistory">Edit</a>!)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-UnsungHistory-20241121224100-193.235.94.164-20241120095300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-UnsungHistory-20241121224100-193.235.94.164-20241120095300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-UnsungHistory-20241121224100-193.235.94.164-20241120095300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500-UnsungHistory-20241121224100"></span>The new governement which the Constitution formed became operational on the first Monday of March, 1789 so legally the Constitution superseded the Article of Confederation on March 4th of 1789 as that's when the government outlined by the Constitution went into effect abolishing the previous governemnt outlined by the Article of Confederation <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Lil_Zadeh&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Lil Zadeh (page does not exist)">Lil Zadeh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lil_Zadeh" title="User talk:Lil Zadeh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500-UnsungHistory-20241121224100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:35, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500-UnsungHistory-20241121224100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500-UnsungHistory-20241121224100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-UnsungHistory-20241123154400-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500"></span>Well on my source it says March 9,please provide a source for March 4,<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">WP:V</a> <span style="color: Purple"><a href="/wiki/User:UnsungHistory" title="User:UnsungHistory">UnsungHistory</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:UnsungHistory" title="User talk:UnsungHistory">Wrong</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/UnsungHistory" title="Special:Contributions/UnsungHistory">Edit</a>!)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:United_States#c-UnsungHistory-20241123154400-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-UnsungHistory-20241123154400-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-UnsungHistory-20241123154400-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-1">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text">(Bosworth (2005), p. 49.)</span> </li> </ol></div>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&oldid=1259136773">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&oldid=1259136773</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_articles_that_use_American_English" title="Category:Wikipedia articles that use American English">Wikipedia articles that use American English</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Delisted_good_articles" title="Category:Delisted good articles">Delisted good articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Old_requests_for_peer_review" title="Category:Old requests for peer review">Old requests for peer review</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Former_good_article_nominees" title="Category:Former good article nominees">Former good article nominees</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_Did_you_know_articles" title="Category:Wikipedia Did you know articles">Wikipedia Did you know articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_level-3_vital_articles" title="Category:B-Class level-3 vital articles">B-Class level-3 vital articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_level-3_vital_articles_in_Geography" title="Category:Wikipedia level-3 vital articles in Geography">Wikipedia level-3 vital articles in Geography</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_vital_articles_in_Geography" title="Category:B-Class vital articles in Geography">B-Class vital articles in Geography</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_United_States_articles" title="Category:B-Class United States articles">B-Class United States articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_United_States_articles" title="Category:Top-importance United States articles">Top-importance United States articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_United_States_articles_of_Top-importance" title="Category:B-Class United States articles of Top-importance">B-Class United States articles of Top-importance</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_United_States_Government_articles" title="Category:B-Class United States Government articles">B-Class United States Government articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_United_States_Government_articles" title="Category:Unknown-importance United States Government articles">Unknown-importance United States Government articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_United_States_Government_articles" title="Category:WikiProject United States Government articles">WikiProject United States Government articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:United_States_Government_articles_with_to-do_lists" title="Category:United States Government articles with to-do lists">United States Government articles with to-do lists</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Past_U.S._collaborations_of_the_Month" title="Category:Past U.S. collaborations of the Month">Past U.S. collaborations of the Month</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_United_States_articles" title="Category:WikiProject United States articles">WikiProject United States articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_North_America_articles" title="Category:B-Class North America articles">B-Class North America articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_North_America_articles" title="Category:Top-importance North America articles">Top-importance North America articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_North_America_articles" title="Category:WikiProject North America articles">WikiProject North America articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:B-Class_country_articles" title="Category:B-Class country articles">B-Class country articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Countries_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Countries articles">WikiProject Countries articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_pages_referenced_by_the_press" title="Category:Wikipedia pages referenced by the press">Wikipedia pages referenced by the press</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_in_the_Wikipedia_Top_25_Report" title="Category:Pages in the Wikipedia Top 25 Report">Pages in the Wikipedia Top 25 Report</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_pages_about_contentious_topics" title="Category:Wikipedia pages about contentious topics">Wikipedia pages about contentious topics</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Selected_anniversaries_articles" title="Category:Selected anniversaries articles">Selected anniversaries articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:All_Wikipedia_vital_articles" title="Category:All Wikipedia vital articles">All Wikipedia vital articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_article_talk_pages_incorporating_the_backwards_copy_template" title="Category:Wikipedia article talk pages incorporating the backwards copy template">Wikipedia article talk pages incorporating the backwards copy template</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_using_backwards_copy_with_unknown_parameters" title="Category:Pages using backwards copy with unknown parameters">Pages using backwards copy with unknown parameters</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_in_the_Wikipedia_Top_50_Report" title="Category:Pages in the Wikipedia Top 50 Report">Pages in the Wikipedia Top 50 Report</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_experimental_page_views_chart_enabled" title="Category:Pages with experimental page views chart enabled">Pages with experimental page views chart enabled</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_stale_experimental_page_views_chart" title="Category:Pages with stale experimental page views chart">Pages with stale experimental page views chart</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 23 November 2024, at 15:44<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use">Terms of Use</a> and <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy policy">Privacy Policy</a>. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/">Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.</a>, a non-profit organization.</li> </ul> <ul id="footer-places"> <li id="footer-places-privacy"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy">Privacy policy</a></li> <li id="footer-places-about"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-disclaimers"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer">Disclaimers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-contact"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us">Contact Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-wm-codeofconduct"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Universal_Code_of_Conduct">Code of Conduct</a></li> <li id="footer-places-developers"><a href="https://developer.wikimedia.org">Developers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-statslink"><a href="https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org">Statistics</a></li> <li id="footer-places-cookiestatement"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Cookie_statement">Cookie statement</a></li> <li id="footer-places-mobileview"><a href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:United_States&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile" class="noprint stopMobileRedirectToggle">Mobile view</a></li> </ul> <ul id="footer-icons" class="noprint"> <li id="footer-copyrightico"><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/static/images/footer/wikimedia-button.svg" width="84" height="29" alt="Wikimedia Foundation" loading="lazy"></a></li> <li id="footer-poweredbyico"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/w/resources/assets/poweredby_mediawiki.svg" alt="Powered by MediaWiki" width="88" height="31" loading="lazy"></a></li> </ul> </footer> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-settings" id="p-dock-bottom"> <ul></ul> </div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-f69cdc8f6-rf9q5","wgBackendResponseTime":166,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Mason.Jones-20240925163300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-United_States,_U.S.-20240925163300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240925163300","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20240925163300-United_States,_U.S.","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240925173300","author":"TheWikiToby","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheWikiToby-20240925173300-Mason.Jones-20240925163300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240925174900","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20240925174900-TheWikiToby-20240925173300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240925183900","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Moxy-20240925183900-Mason.Jones-20240925174900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240925195000","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Moxy-20240925195000-Moxy-20240925183900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240925195800","author":"Maxeto0910","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Maxeto0910-20240925195800-Moxy-20240925195000","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20240927025100","author":"Senorangel","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Senorangel-20240927025100-Mason.Jones-20240925174900","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20240925213100","author":"Dash9Z","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Dash9Z-20240925213100-United_States,_U.S.","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240925230000","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20240925230000-Dash9Z-20240925213100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240926004100","author":"HumansRightsIsCool","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100-Mason.Jones-20240925230000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240926015000","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20240926015000-HumansRightsIsCool-20240926004100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240926050300","author":"Maxeto0910","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Maxeto0910-20240926050300-Mason.Jones-20240926015000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240926171500","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20240926171500-Maxeto0910-20240926050300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241016164100","author":"Maxeto0910","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Maxeto0910-20241016164100-Mason.Jones-20240926171500","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-SashiRolls-20240926183400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Arbitrary_break_concerning_\"the_States\"-United_States,_U.S.-20240926183400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240926183400","author":"SashiRolls","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-SashiRolls-20240926183400-Arbitrary_break_concerning_\"the_States\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240926193700","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20240926193700-SashiRolls-20240926183400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240926201200","author":"Coolcaesar","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Coolcaesar-20240926201200-Mason.Jones-20240926193700","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20240927054600","author":"SashiRolls","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-SashiRolls-20240927054600-Mason.Jones-20240926193700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113034300","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Moxy-20241113034300-SashiRolls-20240927054600","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-JacktheBrown-20241017161000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Important_discussion-20241017161000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241017161000","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241017161000-Important_discussion","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241017161200","author":"Remsense","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Remsense-20241017161200-JacktheBrown-20241017161000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241109231200","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241109231200-Remsense-20241017161200","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241017161900","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241017161900-Remsense-20241017161200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241017164100","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241017164100-JacktheBrown-20241017161900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241017170000","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241017170000-Mason.Jones-20241017164100","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Use_of_the_word_\"its\"_vs_the_word_\"the\"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC-20241019174100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241019174100","author":"RedactedHumanoid","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100-Use_of_the_word_\"its\"_vs_the_word_\"the\"_for_referring_to_Washington_DC","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241019174300","author":"Maxeto0910","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Maxeto0910-20241019174300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241019174700","author":"RedactedHumanoid","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700-Maxeto0910-20241019174300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241019175500","author":"Maxeto0910","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Maxeto0910-20241019175500-RedactedHumanoid-20241019174700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241019182100","author":"RedactedHumanoid","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100-Maxeto0910-20241019175500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241019182300","author":"Maxeto0910","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Maxeto0910-20241019182300-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241019182900","author":"RedactedHumanoid","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900-Maxeto0910-20241019182300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241102121100","author":"Tulurm","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-Tulurm-20241102121100-RedactedHumanoid-20241019182900","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-No_mention_of_\"ethnic_cleansing\"_or_\"genocide\"-20241026050600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241026050600","author":"Brusquedandelion","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600-No_mention_of_\"ethnic_cleansing\"_or_\"genocide\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241026163600","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241026163600-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241026164200","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Moxy-20241026164200-Mason.Jones-20241026163600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027002400","author":"Brusquedandelion","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Brusquedandelion-20241027002400-Moxy-20241026164200","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241027001500","author":"Brusquedandelion","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Brusquedandelion-20241027001500-Mason.Jones-20241026163600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241027201700","author":"إيان","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-إيان-20241027201700-Mason.Jones-20241026163600","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241027010300","author":"SashiRolls","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-SashiRolls-20241027010300-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027020200","author":"Brusquedandelion","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Brusquedandelion-20241027020200-SashiRolls-20241027010300","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241027022400","author":"The Four Deuces","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027022400-SashiRolls-20241027010300","replies":[],"displayName":"TFD"},{"timestamp":"20241028120300","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20241028120300-SashiRolls-20241027010300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027033400","author":"Brusquedandelion","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400-Bogazicili-20241028120300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027042000","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241027042000-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241028010200","author":"Brusquedandelion","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010200-Mason.Jones-20241027042000","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241027203300","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241027203300-Brusquedandelion-20241027033400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241028010400","author":"Brusquedandelion","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Brusquedandelion-20241028010400-Mason.Jones-20241027203300","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241028020400","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241028020400-Bogazicili-20241028120300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027170700","author":"The Four Deuces","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700-Mason.Jones-20241028020400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027201900","author":"إيان","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-إيان-20241027201900-The_Four_Deuces-20241027170700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027204000","author":"إيان","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-إيان-20241027204000-إيان-20241027201900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027213000","author":"إيان","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-إيان-20241027213000-إيان-20241027204000","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241028021900","author":"The Four Deuces","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900-إيان-20241027201900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241028024500","author":"إيان","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-إيان-20241028024500-The_Four_Deuces-20241028021900","replies":[]}],"displayName":"TFD"}]}],"displayName":"TFD"},{"timestamp":"20241111181100","author":"296cherry","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-296cherry-20241111181100-Mason.Jones-20241028020400","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241111180800","author":"296cherry","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-296cherry-20241111180800-Brusquedandelion-20241026050600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112003900","author":"Dimadick","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Dimadick-20241112003900-296cherry-20241111180800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112215600","author":"296cherry","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-296cherry-20241112215600-Dimadick-20241112003900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112225000","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241112225000-296cherry-20241112215600","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-ZiWinger-20241027125800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024-20241027125800","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027125800","author":"ZiWinger","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-ZiWinger-20241027125800-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_27_October_2024","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241027140900","author":"M.Bitton","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-M.Bitton-20241027140900-ZiWinger-20241027125800","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Nicolas_Torcelly_Marco-20241106113000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024-20241106113000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241106113000","author":"Nicolas Torcelly Marco","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Nicolas_Torcelly_Marco-20241106113000-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-GGManUnited_(Lionel_here)-20241106113000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Election-20241106113000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241106113000","author":"GGManUnited (Lionel here)","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-GGManUnited_(Lionel_here)-20241106113000-Election","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)-20241106182900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241106182900","author":"The Guy is taken","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_6_November_2024_(2)","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241106183200","author":"TheWikiToby","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheWikiToby-20241106183200-The_Guy_is_taken-20241106182900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241107080400","author":"2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400-TheWikiToby-20241106183200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241107080900","author":"Remsense","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Remsense-20241107080900-2001:4BC9:82B:B621:A052:1F92:3392:5618-20241107080400","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-37.111.10.226-20241107173500","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-20241107173500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241107173500","author":"37.111.10.226","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241107173500","author":"37.111.10.226","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-37.111.10.226-20241107173500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_7_November_2024-1","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241107180400","author":"M.Bitton","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-M.Bitton-20241107180400-37.111.10.226-20241107173500","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Ultrajante-20241110031000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Third_largest_country_by_land_area-20241110031000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241110031000","author":"Ultrajante","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ultrajante-20241110031000-Third_largest_country_by_land_area","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241110032300","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Moxy-20241110032300-Ultrajante-20241110031000","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-38.188.146.29-20241110143500","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024-20241110143500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241110143500","author":"38.188.146.29","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-38.188.146.29-20241110143500-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_10_November_2024","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241110144100","author":"Seraphimblade","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Seraphimblade-20241110144100-38.188.146.29-20241110143500","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-JacktheBrown-20241112024000","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Lead-20241112024000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112024000","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241112024000-Lead","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112025000","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Moxy-20241112025000-JacktheBrown-20241112024000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112025500","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241112025500-Moxy-20241112025000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112030000","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Moxy-20241112030000-JacktheBrown-20241112025500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112030500","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241112030500-Moxy-20241112030000","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113031400","author":"OrangeSharp","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-OrangeSharp-20241113031400-JacktheBrown-20241112030500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113032700","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Moxy-20241113032700-OrangeSharp-20241113031400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113035900","author":"OrangeSharp","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-OrangeSharp-20241113035900-Moxy-20241113032700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122194500","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241122194500-OrangeSharp-20241113035900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122230000","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":10,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241122230000-Mason.Jones-20241122194500","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241123140400","author":"Kowal2701","type":"comment","level":9,"id":"c-Kowal2701-20241123140400-OrangeSharp-20241113035900","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241122233200","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241122233200-JacktheBrown-20241112030500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122234400","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Moxy-20241122234400-Mason.Jones-20241122233200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241123115000","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":8,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241123115000-Moxy-20241122234400","replies":[]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241122235200","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241122235200-JacktheBrown-20241112025500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122235800","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Moxy-20241122235800-Mason.Jones-20241122235200","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Cogsan-20241112203700","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-\"Etazini\"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-20241112203700","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241112203700","author":"Cogsan","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cogsan-20241112203700-\"Etazini\"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-OrangeSharp-20241113021600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-20241113021600","replies":[{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack_claim-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Genocide_claim-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Portrayal_of_the_United_States_in_World_War_II-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions","replies":[]},{"headingLevel":3,"name":"h-OrangeSharp-20241113021600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Other_problems-Biased,_contentious_claims_being_written_as_uncontroversial_assertions-20241113021600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113021600","author":"OrangeSharp","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-OrangeSharp-20241113021600-Other_problems","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113032900","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Moxy-20241113032900-OrangeSharp-20241113021600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113040700","author":"OrangeSharp","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-OrangeSharp-20241113040700-Moxy-20241113032900","replies":[]}]},{"timestamp":"20241113040200","author":"TheWikiToby","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TheWikiToby-20241113040200-OrangeSharp-20241113021600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113041700","author":"OrangeSharp","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-OrangeSharp-20241113041700-TheWikiToby-20241113040200","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241113171900","author":"Mason.Jones","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Mason.Jones-20241113171900-OrangeSharp-20241113041700","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241113194000","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241113194000-OrangeSharp-20241113021600","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241113202600","author":"Bogazicili","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Bogazicili-20241113202600-OrangeSharp-20241113021600","replies":[]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Cnscrptr-20241118211400","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Two-Party_System-20241118211400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118211400","author":"Cnscrptr","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cnscrptr-20241118211400-Two-Party_System","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118211500","author":"Remsense","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Remsense-20241118211500-Cnscrptr-20241118211400","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118234900","author":"Cnscrptr","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Cnscrptr-20241118234900-Remsense-20241118211500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241119000400","author":"Remsense","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Remsense-20241119000400-Cnscrptr-20241118234900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241119000600","author":"Cnscrptr","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Cnscrptr-20241119000600-Remsense-20241119000400","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-167.206.19.12-20241118233600","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024-20241118233600","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118233600","author":"167.206.19.12","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-167.206.19.12-20241118233600-Extended-confirmed-protected_edit_request_on_18_November_2024","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241118235500","author":"Cnscrptr","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Cnscrptr-20241118235500-167.206.19.12-20241118233600","replies":[]}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-JasonMacker-20241120023900","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-A_subsection_on_\"Human_rights\"-20241120023900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120023900","author":"JasonMacker","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-JasonMacker-20241120023900-A_subsection_on_\"Human_rights\"","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120024500","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Moxy-20241120024500-JasonMacker-20241120023900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122162100","author":"JacktheBrown","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-JacktheBrown-20241122162100-Moxy-20241120024500","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241122171500","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Moxy-20241122171500-JacktheBrown-20241122162100","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"20241123022900","author":"Chipmunkdavis","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Chipmunkdavis-20241123022900-JacktheBrown-20241122162100","replies":[],"displayName":"CMD"}]}]},{"timestamp":"20241123024600","author":"The Four Deuces","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600-JasonMacker-20241120023900","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241123030200","author":"Moxy","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Moxy-20241123030200-The_Four_Deuces-20241123024600","replies":[]}],"displayName":"TFD"}]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-193.235.94.164-20241120095300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Constitution-20241120095300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241120095300","author":"193.235.94.164","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-193.235.94.164-20241120095300-Constitution","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241121224100","author":"UnsungHistory","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-UnsungHistory-20241121224100-193.235.94.164-20241120095300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241123113500","author":"Lil Zadeh","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500-UnsungHistory-20241121224100","replies":[{"timestamp":"20241123154400","author":"UnsungHistory","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-UnsungHistory-20241123154400-Lil_Zadeh-20241123113500","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}],"wgPageParseReport":{"discussiontools":{"limitreport-timeusage":"0.144"},"limitreport":{"cputime":"1.698","walltime":"1.920","ppvisitednodes":{"value":16274,"limit":1000000},"postexpandincludesize":{"value":411266,"limit":2097152},"templateargumentsize":{"value":42794,"limit":2097152},"expansiondepth":{"value":38,"limit":100},"expensivefunctioncount":{"value":30,"limit":500},"unstrip-depth":{"value":0,"limit":20},"unstrip-size":{"value":93985,"limit":5000000},"entityaccesscount":{"value":0,"limit":400},"timingprofile":["100.00% 1572.916 1 -total"," 32.40% 509.583 1 Template:WikiProject_banner_shell"," 22.26% 350.185 1 Template:WikiProject_United_States"," 20.03% 315.069 1 Template:Talk_header"," 15.54% 244.381 6 Template:Tmbox"," 13.34% 209.870 1 Template:Banner_holder"," 13.24% 208.293 20 Template:Th/abp"," 10.09% 158.743 1 Template:FAQ"," 9.92% 156.050 1 Template:Mbox"," 8.59% 135.132 1 Talk:United_States/FAQ"]},"scribunto":{"limitreport-timeusage":{"value":"0.867","limit":"10.000"},"limitreport-memusage":{"value":10651792,"limit":52428800}},"cachereport":{"origin":"mw-api-ext.codfw.main-7556f8b5dd-6psb2","timestamp":"20241123154411","ttl":864000,"transientcontent":true}}});});</script> </body> </html>