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vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#length_or_running_time_parameters"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>length or running time parameters</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-length_or_running_time_parameters-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Documentation unnecessarily verbose (author1, author2, ... author9)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-URL_for_cite_document" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#URL_for_cite_document"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>URL for cite document</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <ul id="toc-URL_for_cite_document-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-MOS:RANGE_violation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#MOS:RANGE_violation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>MOS:RANGE violation</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-MOS:RANGE_violation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>clean up usurped / unfit / deviated</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">36 comments</span> <ul id="toc-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>"Ambiguous" numerical month dates leading to many errors</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li 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href="#Cite_book_editor_names"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Cite book editor names</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Cite_book_editor_names-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Query regarding geo-fenced reference urls</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-HugeDomains" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#HugeDomains"> <div 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#b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1230750088">.mw-parser-output .talkheader{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-body{display:flex}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{display:flex;align-items:center;padding:0.1em}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help{flex:2 1 auto;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#ffffff);color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies+.talkheader-policies{border-left:1px solid #c0c090}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{flex:0 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts>*{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help ul,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies ul{margin:0.1em 0.8em 0 1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Help:Citation_Style_1" title="Help:Citation Style 1">Help:Citation Style 1 and the CS1 templates</a> page.<br/></td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1" title="Special:NewSection/Help talk:Citation Style 1">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? Welcome! <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">Learn to edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">get help</a>.</li></ul> </div> <div class="talkheader-policies"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Be polite</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">avoid personal attacks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">Be welcoming to newcomers</a></li> <li>Seek <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">dispute resolution</a> if needed</li></ul> </div><div class="talkheader-shortcuts"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WT:CS1"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcut</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:CS1&redirect=no">WT:CS1</a></span></li></ul></div></div> </div> </div> </td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">Archives</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/User:ClueBot_III/Master_Detailed_Indices/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1" title="User:ClueBot III/Master Detailed Indices/Help talk:Citation Style 1">Index</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_1" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 1">1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_2" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 2">2</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_3" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 3">3</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_4" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 4">4</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_5" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 5">5</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_6" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 6">6</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_7" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 7">7</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_8" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 8">8</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_9" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 9">9</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_10" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 10">10</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_11" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 11">11</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_12" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 12">12</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_13" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 13">13</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_14" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 14">14</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_15" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 15">15</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_16" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 16">16</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_17" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 17">17</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_18" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 18">18</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_19" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 19">19</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_20" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 20">20</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_21" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 21">21</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_22" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 22">22</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_23" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 23">23</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_24" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 24">24</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_25" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 25">25</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_26" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 26">26</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_27" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 27">27</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_28" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 28">28</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_29" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 29">29</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_30" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 30">30</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_31" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 31">31</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_32" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 32">32</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_33" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 33">33</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_34" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 34">34</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_35" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 35">35</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_36" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 36">36</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_37" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 37">37</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_38" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 38">38</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_39" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 39">39</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_40" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 40">40</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_41" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 41">41</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_42" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 42">42</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_43" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 43">43</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_44" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 44">44</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_45" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 45">45</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_46" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 46">46</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_47" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 47">47</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_48" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 48">48</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_49" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 49">49</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_50" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 50">50</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_51" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 51">51</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_52" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 52">52</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_53" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 53">53</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_54" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 54">54</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_55" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 55">55</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_56" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 56">56</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_57" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 57">57</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_58" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 58">58</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_59" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 59">59</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_60" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 60">60</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_61" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 61">61</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_62" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 62">62</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_63" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 63">63</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_64" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 64">64</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_65" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 65">65</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_66" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 66">66</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_67" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 67">67</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_68" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 68">68</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_69" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 69">69</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_70" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 70">70</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_71" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 71">71</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_72" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 72">72</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_73" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 73">73</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_74" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 74">74</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_75" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 75">75</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_76" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 76">76</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_77" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 77">77</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_78" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 78">78</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_79" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 79">79</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_80" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 80">80</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_81" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 81">81</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_82" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 82">82</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_83" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 83">83</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_84" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 84">84</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_85" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 85">85</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_86" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 86">86</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_87" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 87">87</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_88" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 88">88</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_89" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 89">89</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_90" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 90">90</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_91" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 91">91</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_92" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 92">92</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_93" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 93">93</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_94" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 94">94</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_95" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 95">95</a>, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_96" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 96">96</a><span style="position: relative; top: 2px; float: right; font-size: 90%; margin-left: 1em;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1038841319">.mw-parser-output .tooltip-dotted{border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help}</style><span class="rt-commentedText tooltip tooltip-dotted" title="Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by ClueBot III after 480 hours of inactivity when more than 6 threads are present.">Auto-archiving period</span>: <b>20 days</b> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page#Automated_archiving" title="Help:Archiving a talk page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/16px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/24px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/32px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></a></span></span></td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Help talk:Citation Style 1/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Fairytale_key_enter.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png/40px-Fairytale_key_enter.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png/60px-Fairytale_key_enter.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png 2x" data-file-width="64" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">To help <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#Centralized_talk_pages" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">centralize</a> discussions and keep related topics together, the talk pages for all Citation Style 1 and Citation Style 2 templates and modules redirect here. A list of those talk pages and their historical archives can be found <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Centralized_discussions" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Centralized discussions">here</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1243927654">.mw-parser-output .banner-shell{border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:4px}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-header{text-align:center;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{padding:2px 4px;background:#fffaef;color:inherit;border:1px dotted gray}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox{margin:2px 0;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox.mbox-small{line-height:1.5em;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner .banner-shell-outside{display:none}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpbs{width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .assess{width:60px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-header{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em 0.25em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-header{display:table-row}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb:not(.mw-collapsed) .wpb-header-icon a{display:none}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell wpbs mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><td class="assess"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_information_vote.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Help page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/35px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="36" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/53px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/70px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span></td><td class="banner-shell-header" style="text-align:left;font-weight:normal">This help page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale.<br/>It is of interest to multiple <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProjects</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256394742">.mw-parser-output .wpb-header,.mw-parser-output .wpb-metadata,.mw-parser-output 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.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Question_book_magnify2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/25px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/38px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/50px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="60" data-file-height="60"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia:Help Project">Wikipedia Help</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-high">High‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Question_book_magnify2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/50px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/75px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/100px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="60" data-file-height="60"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia:Help Project">Wikipedia Help Project</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's help documentation for readers and contributors. If you would like to participate, please visit <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia:Help Project">the project page</a>, where you can join the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia talk:Help Project">discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks. To browse help related resources see the <a href="/wiki/Help:Menu" title="Help:Menu">Help Menu</a> or <a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Help:Contents">Help Directory</a>. Or <span class="noprint plainlinks" title="Edit Special:MyTalk"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MyTalk&action=edit&section=new&preload=Help:Contents/helpmepreload&preloadtitle=Help+me%21"><b>ask for help on your talk page</b></a></span> and a volunteer will visit you there.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Wikipedia Help</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:Help Project</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:Wikipedia Help Project</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Help articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-high"><a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_Help_articles" title="Category:High-importance Help articles">High</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This page has been rated as <b>High-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_Project/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:Help Project/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scientific_journal_icon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Scientific_journal_icon.svg/25px-Scientific_journal_icon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Scientific_journal_icon.svg/38px-Scientific_journal_icon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Scientific_journal_icon.svg/50px-Scientific_journal_icon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Academic_Journals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Academic Journals">Academic Journals</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scientific_journal_icon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Scientific_journal_icon.svg/50px-Scientific_journal_icon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Scientific_journal_icon.svg/75px-Scientific_journal_icon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Scientific_journal_icon.svg/100px-Scientific_journal_icon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Academic_Journals" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Academic Journals">WikiProject Academic Journals</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Academic_journal" title="Academic journal">Academic Journals</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Academic_Journals" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Academic Journals">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Academic Journals</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Academic Journals</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Academic Journals</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Academic Journal articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Zeitschriften.JPG" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Zeitschriften.JPG/33px-Zeitschriften.JPG" decoding="async" width="33" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Zeitschriften.JPG/49px-Zeitschriften.JPG 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Zeitschriften.JPG/65px-Zeitschriften.JPG 2x" data-file-width="1942" data-file-height="1497"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Magazines" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Magazines">Magazines</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Zeitschriften.JPG" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Zeitschriften.JPG/80px-Zeitschriften.JPG" decoding="async" width="80" height="62" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Zeitschriften.JPG/120px-Zeitschriften.JPG 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9a/Zeitschriften.JPG/160px-Zeitschriften.JPG 2x" data-file-width="1942" data-file-height="1497"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Magazines" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Magazines">WikiProject Magazines</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Magazine" title="Magazine">magazines</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Magazines" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Magazines">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Magazines</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Magazines</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Magazines</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">magazine articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">See <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Magazines/Writing_guide" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Magazines/Writing guide">WikiProject Magazines' writing guide</a></b></i> for tips on how to improve this article.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1243927654"><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/24px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="24" height="22" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/36px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/48px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text banner-shell-header"><span class="nowrap" style="float:left"> </span>Other talk page banners</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Clipboard.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/40px-Clipboard.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/60px-Clipboard.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/80px-Clipboard.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">Some of the templates discussed here were considered for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_policy" title="Wikipedia:Deletion policy">merging or deletion</a> at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">Wikipedia:Templates for discussion</a>. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: <ul><li>"<b>Withdrawn</b>" proposal to merge <a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_press_release" title="Template:Cite press release">Template:Cite press release</a> with <a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_news" title="Template:Cite news">Template:Cite news</a> on March 2, 2018, see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2018_March_2#Template:Cite_press_release" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 March 2">discussion</a>.</li></ul></td><td class="mbox-imageright"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/40px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="44" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/60px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/80px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="36" data-file-height="40"/></a></span></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1214851843">.mw-parser-output .hidden-begin{box-sizing:border-box;width:100%;padding:5px;border:none;font-size:95%}.mw-parser-output .hidden-title{font-weight:bold;line-height:1.6;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .hidden-content{text-align:left}@media all and (max-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .hidden-begin{width:auto!important;clear:none!important;float:none!important}}</style><div class="hidden-begin mw-collapsible autocollapse" style="font-size: 105%"><div class="hidden-title skin-nightmode-reset-color" style="text-align: center"><span class="anchor" id="FAQ"></span><div style="float:left;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/FAQ&action=edit&preload=Template:FAQ/Preload" title="?"><img alt="?" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/24px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png" decoding="async" width="24" height="24" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/36px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg/48px-OOjs_UI_icon_help-ltr-progressive.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="20" data-file-height="20"/></a></span> <small><a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/FAQ" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/FAQ">view</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/FAQ&action=edit&preload=Template:FAQ/Preload">edit</a></small></div> Frequently asked questions</div><div class="hidden-content mw-collapsible-content" style=""> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <dl><dt>I would like to add a free-to-read publisher to the DOI prefix list in <a href="/wiki/Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration" title="Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration">Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration</a></dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration" title="Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration">Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration</a> needs the <code>10.xxxx/...</code> part of the DOI associated with the publisher. <i>All</i> the publications of the publisher must be free-to read. Once that is done, the <code>xxxx</code> part can be added to the list under <i>local function build_free_doi_registrants_table()</i>. Also leave a note at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Citation_bot" title="User talk:Citation bot">User talk:Citation bot</a>.</dd> <dt>I would like to add a free-to-read journal to the DOI prefix list in <a href="/wiki/Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration" title="Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration">Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration</a></dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration" title="Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration">Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration</a> needs the <code>10.xxxx/yyyy</code> part of the DOI associated with the journal. <i>All</i> the articles associated with that DOI pattern must be free-to read. Once that is done, the <code>xxxx/yyyy</code> parts can be added to the list under <i>local extended_registrants_t = {</i> with the format <code>['XXXX'] = {'YYYY'},</code>. If there are multiple journals with the same DOI prefix, they can be grouped together with the format <code>['XXXX'] = {'YYYY', 'ZZZZ', '...'},</code>. Also leave a note at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Citation_bot" title="User talk:Citation bot">User talk:Citation bot</a>.</dd> <dt>I would like to add a geo-dead/geo-access URL keyword</dt> <dd>Previous discussions have come to the conclusion that this is not workable. Websites change which regions can access them regularly, and these websites are regardless not fundamentally dead.</dd> <dt>I would like support for PDF page numbers</dt> <dd>The specific page of a specific PDF may change between clients with the same file or files with the same client. Consider using a <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|chapter=</code> or <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|quote=</code> instead.</dd> <dt>I would like my change done now</dt> <dd>Local consensus is that these modules sync from their sandboxes approximately once every 3-6 months. This is due to complexity of changes, the number of transclusions these modules have, and to be sure sufficient consensus exists for a change.</dd> <dt>I don't like <i>(identifier)</i> in the links to identifier pages</dt> <dd>This is done to differentiate identifier links (... lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.<sup><ref>Linden, David van der. (2015) ... <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.18352%2Fdze.10126">10.18352/dze.10126</a></ref></sup> ... ) from prose links (... the <a href="/wiki/Digital_object_identifier" title="Digital object identifier">digital object identifier</a> was introduced in 2000 by ... ) in <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere" title="Special:WhatLinksHere">Special:WhatLinksHere</a>.</dd></dl> </div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Two_dots_at_the_end?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Two_dots_at_the_end?-20241104092900"><span id="Two_dots_at_the_end.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Two_dots_at_the_end?-20241104092900"></span>Two dots at the end?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Two_dots_at_the_end?-20241104092900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Two dots at the end?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SkyLined-20241104092900-Two_dots_at_the_end?"></span>I noticed that this template appears to add two dots at the end of the citation for no obvious reason. See <a href="/wiki/Basic_access_authentication#External_links" title="Basic access authentication">External links on this page</a> for an example (there is only one external link). Can somebody figure out why this happens and fix it? </p><p><span style="padding-left: 2em; white-space: nowrap">— <a href="/wiki/User:SkyLined" title="User:SkyLined"><span style="font-family: 'Courier New', monospace; text-shadow:#80FF80 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em; color:#008000;">SkyLined</span></a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SkyLined" title="User talk:SkyLined">talk</a>)</small></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-SkyLined-20241104092900-Two_dots_at_the_end?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:29, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SkyLined-20241104092900-Two_dots_at_the_end?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SkyLined-20241104092900-Two_dots_at_the_end?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241104123300-SkyLined-20241104092900"></span>While I confirm that the citation appears in the link above with double dots, the exact same template, copied, doesn't produce double dots (for me, anyway!) here:</dd></dl> <ul><li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation web cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc7617">"RFC 7617 - The 'Basic' HTTP Authentication Scheme"</a>. Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). September 2015.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=unknown&rft.btitle=RFC+7617+-+The+%27Basic%27+HTTP+Authentication+Scheme&rft.pub=Internet+Engineering+Task+Force+%28IETF%29&rft.date=2015-09&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Frfc7617&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd>(Also the link as generated by Citer doesn't produce double dots in the original context.)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241104123300-SkyLined-20241104092900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:33, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241104123300-SkyLined-20241104092900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241104123300-SkyLined-20241104092900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241104124000-Pol098-20241104123300"></span>The extra dot was placed after one of the categories for the article. Since categorisation doesn't render in place, but rather at the page foot, it made it appear as if the dot was produced by the citation template. <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1255340753" title="Special:Diff/1255340753">I removed it</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241104124000-Pol098-20241104123300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:40, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241104124000-Pol098-20241104123300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241104124000-Pol098-20241104123300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SkyLined-20241105025400-Folly_Mox-20241104124000"></span>Thanks for spotting and fixing that!</dd> <dd>It currently renders as <code>The 'Basic' HTTP Authentication Scheme. Internet Engineering Task Force. September 2015. doi:10.17487/RFC7617. RFC 7617.</code> which has more than a few dots and repeats the RFC number. That looks weird to me - is that how it is supposed to look?</dd> <dd><span style="padding-left: 2em; white-space: nowrap">— <a href="/wiki/User:SkyLined" title="User:SkyLined"><span style="font-family: 'Courier New', monospace; text-shadow:#80FF80 0.1em 0.1em 0.2em; color:#008000;">SkyLined</span></a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SkyLined" title="User talk:SkyLined">talk</a>)</small></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-SkyLined-20241105025400-Folly_Mox-20241104124000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SkyLined-20241105025400-Folly_Mox-20241104124000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SkyLined-20241105025400-Folly_Mox-20241104124000"></span> <dl><dd><code><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241105143800-SkyLined-20241105025400"></span>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_IETF" title="Template:Cite IETF">cite IETF</a>}}</code> is not a cs1|2 template. It is a wrapper around <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Citation" title="Template:Citation">citation</a>}}</code>. If you believe that that <span class="nowrap"><code>{{cite IETF}}</code></span> should render differently, you must discuss that at the template's talk page.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241105143800-SkyLined-20241105025400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241105143800-SkyLined-20241105025400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241105143800-SkyLined-20241105025400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="length_or_running_time_parameters" data-mw-thread-id="h-length_or_running_time_parameters-20241109052600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-length_or_running_time_parameters-20241109052600"></span>length or running time parameters<span data-mw-comment-end="h-length_or_running_time_parameters-20241109052600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: length or running time parameters"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-71.230.16.111-20241109052600-length_or_running_time_parameters"></span>This page was given as Talk for Cite AV Media template. </p><p>Nowhere do I find any parameter for the size of the media as in "pages=" for books; the "time=" parameter is described as a location in the work, like "page=" or "at=".<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/71.230.16.111" title="Special:Contributions/71.230.16.111">71.230.16.111</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:71.230.16.111" title="User talk:71.230.16.111">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-71.230.16.111-20241109052600-length_or_running_time_parameters" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:26, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-71.230.16.111-20241109052600-length_or_running_time_parameters"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-71.230.16.111-20241109052600-length_or_running_time_parameters"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Imzadi1979-20241109055400-71.230.16.111-20241109052600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User_talk:71.230.16.111" title="User talk:71.230.16.111">71.230.16.111</a>: we typically don't list the size of a work in that way in a citation. <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|pages=</code> is for a page range of a location within a book or other work, not the total size. That parameter is used to prefix the plural "pp." in front of a group of pages instead of the singular "p.", and it's not for the total pages in a book. This might be the source of confusion for you. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;"><b><a href="/wiki/User:Imzadi1979" title="User:Imzadi1979"><span style="color:white;">Imzadi 1979</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Imzadi1979" title="User talk:Imzadi1979"><span style="color:white;"><big>→</big></span></a></b></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Imzadi1979-20241109055400-71.230.16.111-20241109052600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:54, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Imzadi1979-20241109055400-71.230.16.111-20241109052600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Imzadi1979-20241109055400-71.230.16.111-20241109052600"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241109130800-Imzadi1979-20241109055400"></span>I use <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|type=Video (23'34")</code>. Unlike, say, a book, AV media are sequential, not random, access, so the length is more relevant to the reader. If this suggestion is generally liked, it could be added to the documentation of <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_AV_media" title="Template:Cite AV media">Cite AV media</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>. Documentation for <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|type=</code> at present includes "Alias: <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|medium=</code>. Use one of the following as applicable: Motion picture, Television production, Videotape, DVD, Blu-ray, Trailer, CD, Radio broadcast, Podcast". Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241109130800-Imzadi1979-20241109055400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:08, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241109130800-Imzadi1979-20241109055400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241109130800-Imzadi1979-20241109055400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)-20241110144400"><span id="Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_.28author1.2C_author2.2C_..._author9.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)-20241110144400"></span>Documentation unnecessarily verbose (author1, author2, ... author9)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)-20241110144400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Documentation unnecessarily verbose (author1, author2, ... author9)"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241110144400-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)"></span>The documentation for the citation templates in unnecessarily verbose, with <a href="/wiki/Template:Citation#TemplateDataentries" title="Template:Citation">entries tabulated</a> like author3, last3, author3-link, for numerical values up to 9, and similarly for other parameters. After the entries for the 2nd author (etc.), I suggest simply <i>and similar values for further authors, e.g. author3, etc.</i> , omitting entries 3-9. This also has the merit of being more general; the existing table goes up to 9, without mention of listing further authors, e.g., author15. I suppose there is a limit to the number of authors (etc.) supported; this could be mentioned (some physics papers have around 1,000 authors, though I don't suggest including them all). This is fairly obvious; maybe it has been suggested, and rejected? Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241110144400-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:44, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241110144400-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241110144400-Documentation_unnecessarily_verbose_(author1,_author2,_..._author9)"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241110151200-Pol098-20241110144400"></span>There is no practical limit to <code><var style="padding-right: 1px;">n</var></code> in <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|author<var style="padding-right: 1px;">n</var>=</code> (for the real limit see <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual#number" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual">mw:Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual § number</a>).</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>If you are talking about that abomination that is TemplateData, this is the wrong venue. There is no support in TemplateData to 'short-hand' enumerated parameter names.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241110151200-Pol098-20241110144400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241110151200-Pol098-20241110144400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241110151200-Pol098-20241110144400"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241110154800-Trappist_the_monk-20241110151200"></span>Thanks; indeed TemplateData. Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241110154800-Trappist_the_monk-20241110151200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:48, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241110154800-Trappist_the_monk-20241110151200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241110154800-Trappist_the_monk-20241110151200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="URL_for_cite_document" data-mw-thread-id="h-URL_for_cite_document-20241110145000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-URL_for_cite_document-20241110145000"></span>URL for cite document<span data-mw-comment-end="h-URL_for_cite_document-20241110145000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: URL for cite document"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span class="nowrap"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jay-20241110145000-URL_for_cite_document"></span>{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_document" title="Template:Cite document">cite document</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> under its COinS says url is supported. But at <a href="/wiki/Kaufman,_Texas" title="Kaufman, Texas">Kaufman, Texas</a> I'm getting <i>"Unknown parameter |url= ignored"</i> How do I specify a URL for <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_document" title="Template:Cite document">cite document</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>? <span style="font-family:Segoe Script"><a href="/wiki/User:Jay" title="User:Jay"> Jay</a></span><span style="font-size:115%"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jay" title="User talk:Jay"> 💬</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Jay-20241110145000-URL_for_cite_document" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jay-20241110145000-URL_for_cite_document"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jay-20241110145000-URL_for_cite_document"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mackensen-20241110152300-Jay-20241110145000"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">Note: This table of metadata is displayed in the documentation of all Citation Style 1 templates. Not all of these parameters are supported by every CS1 template.</q> <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_document" title="Template:Cite document">Cite document</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> is specifically for offline documents; why not use <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_web" title="Template:Cite web">cite web</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>? <a href="/wiki/User:Mackensen" title="User:Mackensen">Mackensen</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mackensen" title="User talk:Mackensen">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Mackensen-20241110152300-Jay-20241110145000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:23, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mackensen-20241110152300-Jay-20241110145000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mackensen-20241110152300-Jay-20241110145000"></span></dd> <dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241110152400-Jay-20241110145000"></span>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)</small></dd> <dd>From the first line of text in the <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_document" title="Template:Cite document">cite document</a>}}</code> template's documentation: <dl><dd>This ... template is used to create citations for short, stand-alone, <b>off-line</b> documents. <span style="font-size:85%;">(emphasis added)</span></dd></dl></dd> <dd>The COinS documentation at <a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_document#COinS" title="Template:Cite document">Template:Cite document § COinS</a> has this: <dl><dd>Note: This table of metadata is displayed in the documentation of all Citation Style 1 templates. Not all of these parameters are supported by every CS1 template.</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Use an appropriate template.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241110152400-Jay-20241110145000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:24, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241110152400-Jay-20241110145000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241110152400-Jay-20241110145000"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1256569520" title="Special:Diff/1256569520"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241110153900-Trappist_the_monk-20241110152400"></span>Fixed</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241110153900-Trappist_the_monk-20241110152400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241110153900-Trappist_the_monk-20241110152400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241110153900-Trappist_the_monk-20241110152400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241110155600-Folly_Mox-20241110153900"></span>For some documents <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_report" title="Template:Cite report">Cite report</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>, which takes a URL, is appropriate. <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241110155600-Folly_Mox-20241110153900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241110155600-Folly_Mox-20241110153900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241110155600-Folly_Mox-20241110153900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jay-20241112073900-Folly_Mox-20241110153900"></span>Thanks, but since it was a PDF, I wanted to use a citation that is closest to document. And that PDF is not a report. <span style="font-family:Segoe Script"><a href="/wiki/User:Jay" title="User:Jay"> Jay</a></span><span style="font-size:115%"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jay" title="User talk:Jay"> 💬</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Jay-20241112073900-Folly_Mox-20241110153900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:39, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jay-20241112073900-Folly_Mox-20241110153900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jay-20241112073900-Folly_Mox-20241110153900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241117171600-Jay-20241112073900"></span>I'm open to correction here by the people who actually did the work, but my understanding is that the theory behind the CS1|2 templates is not to taxonomise source types, but to present multiple consistent display formats while constraining parameter sets. Most written media can be construed as "documents". <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_web" title="Template:Cite web">Cite web</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> is perfectly adequate here: with complete bibliographic information a reader should be able to locate and consult a printed version of this source should the source's current server go dark. If in doubt of the appropriate template, <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Citation" title="Template:Citation">Citation</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> can be used as an initial implementation, with <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|mode=cs1</code> to force stops instead of commas in between displayed parameter values. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241117171600-Jay-20241112073900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241117171600-Jay-20241112073900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241117171600-Jay-20241112073900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241117171900-Folly_Mox-20241117171600"></span>Oh and to provide well-structured metadata for downstream reusers and to infill certain values in some cases and probably other goals. Forgetfully and in ignorance, <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241117171900-Folly_Mox-20241117171600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:19, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241117171900-Folly_Mox-20241117171600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241117171900-Folly_Mox-20241117171600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="MOS:RANGE_violation" data-mw-thread-id="h-MOS:RANGE_violation-20241111072200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-MOS:RANGE_violation-20241111072200"></span><a href="/wiki/MOS:RANGE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:RANGE">MOS:RANGE</a> violation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-MOS:RANGE_violation-20241111072200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: MOS:RANGE violation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/MOS:RANGE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:RANGE"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Eppstein-20241111072200-MOS:RANGE_violation"></span>MOS:RANGE</a> states: "The en dash in a range is always unspaced, except when either or both elements of the range include at least one space, hyphen, or en dash; in such cases, <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Snd" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Snd">snd</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> between them will provide the proper formatting" and it gives the example "pages 5-7 – 5-9". However, the citation templates do not obey this, instead stripping out the spaces from parameters like <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|pages=12-1 – 12-24</code> </p><p>Example: </p> <ul><li>{{citation|title=Algorithms and Theory of Computation Handbook: General Concepts and Techniques|editor1-first=Mikhail J.|editor1-last=Atallah|editor2-first=Marina|editor2-last=Blanton|contribution=Chapter 12: Randomized Algorithms|first1=Rajeev|last1=Motwani|author1-link=Rajeev Motwani|first2=Prabhakar|last2=Raghavan|author2-link=Prabhakar Raghavan|edition=2nd|publisher=CRC Press|year=2010|pages=12-1 – 12-24}}</li> <li><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFMotwaniRaghavan2010" class="citation cs2"><a href="/wiki/Rajeev_Motwani" title="Rajeev Motwani">Motwani, Rajeev</a>; <a href="/wiki/Prabhakar_Raghavan" title="Prabhakar Raghavan">Raghavan, Prabhakar</a> (2010), "Chapter 12: Randomized Algorithms", in Atallah, Mikhail J.; Blanton, Marina (eds.), <i>Algorithms and Theory of Computation Handbook: General Concepts and Techniques</i> (2nd ed.), CRC Press, pp. 12-1–12-24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=bookitem&rft.atitle=Chapter+12%3A+Randomized+Algorithms&rft.btitle=Algorithms+and+Theory+of+Computation+Handbook%3A+General+Concepts+and+Techniques&rft.pages=12-1-12-24&rft.edition=2nd&rft.pub=CRC+Press&rft.date=2010&rft.aulast=Motwani&rft.aufirst=Rajeev&rft.au=Raghavan%2C+Prabhakar&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li>SANDBOX: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFMotwaniRaghavan2010" class="citation cs2"><a href="/wiki/Rajeev_Motwani" title="Rajeev Motwani">Motwani, Rajeev</a>; <a href="/wiki/Prabhakar_Raghavan" title="Prabhakar Raghavan">Raghavan, Prabhakar</a> (2010), "Chapter 12: Randomized Algorithms", in Atallah, Mikhail J.; Blanton, Marina (eds.), <i>Algorithms and Theory of Computation Handbook: General Concepts and Techniques</i> (2nd ed.), CRC Press, pp. 12-1–12-24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=bookitem&rft.atitle=Chapter+12%3A+Randomized+Algorithms&rft.btitle=Algorithms+and+Theory+of+Computation+Handbook%3A+General+Concepts+and+Techniques&rft.pages=12-1-12-24&rft.edition=2nd&rft.pub=CRC+Press&rft.date=2010&rft.aulast=Motwani&rft.aufirst=Rajeev&rft.au=Raghavan%2C+Prabhakar&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul> <p>Using the MOS recommendation of <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Snd" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Snd">snd</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> is worse, producing "12-1 –&#32, 12–24". Can this be fixed, please? —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-David_Eppstein-20241111072200-MOS:RANGE_violation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:22, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Eppstein-20241111072200-MOS:RANGE_violation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Eppstein-20241111072200-MOS:RANGE_violation"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241111091000-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"></span>Use of <code>((…))</code> will fix that: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>title</i>, pp. 12-1 – 12-24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=title&rft.pages=12-1+-+12-24&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Bednarek" title="User:Michael Bednarek">Michael Bednarek</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Bednarek" title="User talk:Michael Bednarek">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Michael_Bednarek-20241111091000-David_Eppstein-20241111072200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:10, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241111091000-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241111091000-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gonnym-20241111111600-Michael_Bednarek-20241111091000"></span>There is no need for hacks. If this should be fixed, the module can handle it without that. <a href="/wiki/User:Gonnym" title="User:Gonnym">Gonnym</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gonnym" title="User talk:Gonnym">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Gonnym-20241111111600-Michael_Bednarek-20241111091000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:16, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gonnym-20241111111600-Michael_Bednarek-20241111091000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gonnym-20241111111600-Michael_Bednarek-20241111091000"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241112135300-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"></span>I agree this should be fixed but am not sure how to fix it. Maybe this is something <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> or <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> can help with? <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241112135300-David_Eppstein-20241111072200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:53, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241112135300-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241112135300-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241112184400-Firefangledfeathers-20241112135300"></span>Apologies for any confusion: I'm fairly well versed in the behaviour of <a href="/wiki/Module:CS1" class="mw-redirect" title="Module:CS1">Module:CS1</a> and its dependent templates, but I'm almost entirely unfamiliar with the codebase. I've read through parts of it, but Trappist is by far the primary maintainer. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241112184400-Firefangledfeathers-20241112135300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241112184400-Firefangledfeathers-20241112135300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241112184400-Firefangledfeathers-20241112135300"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241115145100-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"></span>In the sandbox. Spaced em/en/hyphen separators between hyphenated compound page numbers: <ul><li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12-1 – 12-24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238446127">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12-1 –</span> <span class="nowrap">12-24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-1+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12-A – 12-X<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12-A –</span> <span class="nowrap">12-X</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-A+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-X%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>A-12 - A-24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">A-12 –</span> <span class="nowrap">A-24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA-12+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA-24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>A-12 — A-24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">A-12 –</span> <span class="nowrap">A-24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA-12+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA-24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd>Unspaced em/en/hyphen separators between hyphenated compound page numbers: <ul><li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12-1–12-24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12-1 –</span> <span class="nowrap">12-24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-1+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12-A–12-X<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12-A –</span> <span class="nowrap">12-X</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-A+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-X%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>A-12-A-24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">A-12 –</span> <span class="nowrap">A-24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA-12+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA-24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>A-12—A-24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">A-12 –</span> <span class="nowrap">A-24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA-12+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA-24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd>Unspaced em/en/hyphen separators between dot-separated compound page numbers: <ul><li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12.1–12.24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12.1 –</span> <span class="nowrap">12.24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12.1+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12.24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12.A–12.X<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12.A –</span> <span class="nowrap">12.X</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12.A+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12.X%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12.A-12.X<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">A.12 –</span> <span class="nowrap">A.24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA.12+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA.24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12.A—12.X<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">A.12 –</span> <span class="nowrap">A.24</span></cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA.12+-%3C%2Fspan%3E+%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3EA.24%3C%2Fspan%3E&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd>Spaced em/en/hyphen separators between simple numeric page numbers: <ul><li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12 – 24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12–</span>24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-%3C%2Fspan%3E24&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12 - 24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12–</span>24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-%3C%2Fspan%3E24&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12 — 24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12–</span>24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-%3C%2Fspan%3E24&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd>Unspaced em/en/hyphen separators between simple numeric page numbers: <ul><li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12–24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12–</span>24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-%3C%2Fspan%3E24&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12-24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12–</span>24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-%3C%2Fspan%3E24&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>12—24<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">12–</span>24</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3E12-%3C%2Fspan%3E24&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd>Spaced em/en/hyphen separators between simple alpha page numbers: <ul><li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii – xiv<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">xii–</span>xiv</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3Exii-%3C%2Fspan%3Exiv&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii - xiv<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">xii–</span>xiv</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3Exii-%3C%2Fspan%3Exiv&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii — xiv<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">xii–</span>xiv</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3Exii-%3C%2Fspan%3Exiv&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd>Unpaced em/en/hyphen separators between simple alpha page numbers: <ul><li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii–xiv<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">xii–</span>xiv</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3Exii-%3C%2Fspan%3Exiv&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii-xiv<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">xii–</span>xiv</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3Exii-%3C%2Fspan%3Exiv&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii—xiv<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. <span class="nowrap">xii–</span>xiv</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=%3Cspan+class%3D%22nowrap%22%3Exii-%3C%2Fspan%3Exiv&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd>Spaced and unspaced em/en/hyphen separators between mixed alpha and numeric page numbers; returned unmodified: <ul><li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii – 5<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. xii – 5</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=xii+-+5&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii - 5<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. xii - 5</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=xii+-+5&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii — 5<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. xii — 5</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=xii+%E2%80%94+5&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii–5<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. xii–5</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=xii-5&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii-5<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. xii-5</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=xii-5&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li> <li><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">citation/new</span><span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">pages</span><span class="o">=</span>xii—5<span class="p">}}</span></code> → <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation cs2"><i>Title</i>, pp. xii—5</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.pages=xii%E2%80%945&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241115145100-David_Eppstein-20241111072200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:51, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241115145100-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241115145100-David_Eppstein-20241111072200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SMcCandlish-20241121114900-Trappist_the_monk-20241115145100"></span>Impressively robust! Would be a cherry on top if the block of "xii–5" cases also worked, though I guess that's not going to come up terribly often. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — <a href="/wiki/User:SMcCandlish" title="User:SMcCandlish"><b>SMcCandlish</b></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SMcCandlish" title="User talk:SMcCandlish">☏</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish" title="Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish">¢</a> 😼 </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-SMcCandlish-20241121114900-Trappist_the_monk-20241115145100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:49, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SMcCandlish-20241121114900-Trappist_the_monk-20241115145100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SMcCandlish-20241121114900-Trappist_the_monk-20241115145100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated" data-mw-thread-id="h-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated-20241113222200"><span id="clean_up_usurped_.2F_unfit_.2F_deviated"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated-20241113222200"></span>clean up usurped / unfit / deviated<span data-mw-comment-end="h-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated-20241113222200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: clean up usurped / unfit / deviated"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anomalocaris-20241113222200-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated"></span>For probably more than a decade, I've been fixing <code>{{cite}}</code> templates with <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=usurped</code> or <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=unfit</code>, changing those to <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=dead</code>. In one place, <a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_web/doc" title="Template:Cite web/doc">Template:Cite web/doc</a> offers <code>usurped</code> and <code>unfit</code> as valid values for this parameter and in two other places it additionally offers <code>deviated</code>, which I didn't know about until now, and that value actually works. <a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_news/doc" title="Template:Cite news/doc">Template:Cite news/doc</a> has those two other places, but doesn't have the place offering <code>usurped</code> and <code>unfit</code> without also offering <code>deviated</code>. Recommendations: First, all cite template documentation pages be updated to say that <code>usurped</code> and <code>unfit</code> are not supported and to use <code>deviated</code> instead. Second, cite template documentation pages should—for parameters that are identical in name, range of values, and display—explain the parameters using identical language. —<a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anomalocaris" title="User talk:Anomalocaris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Anomalocaris-20241113222200-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anomalocaris-20241113222200-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anomalocaris-20241113222200-clean_up_usurped_/_unfit_/_deviated"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241113230800-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"></span>What do you mean when you say: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk"><code>usurped</code> and <code>unfit</code> are not supported</q>? Give us an example of that shows how those parameter values not supported. Every cs1|2 template that supports <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|archive-url=</code> (all but the preprint templates – <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_arxiv" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Cite arxiv">cite arxiv</a>}}</code>, <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_biorxiv" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Cite biorxiv">cite biorxiv</a>}}</code>, <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_citeseerx" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Cite citeseerx">cite citeseerx</a>}}</code>, <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_medrxiv" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Cite medrxiv">cite medrxiv</a>}}</code>, and <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_ssrn" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Cite ssrn">cite ssrn</a>}}</code> – and <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_document" title="Template:Cite document">cite document</a>}}</code>) support <code>usurped</code> and <code>unfit</code> for <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=</code>.</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>Most of the cs1|2 documentation comes from <a href="/wiki/Template:Citation_Style_documentation" title="Template:Citation Style documentation">Template:Citation Style documentation</a> which is shared amongst the all of the cs1|2 templates. That is the <em>real</em> documentation. If you are talking about that abomination that is TemplateData, that <em>is not</em> the template documentation. Please specify where you think that the documentation is falling short. If you know how the documentation can be improved, please improve it. The documentation is not protected.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241113230800-Anomalocaris-20241113222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241113230800-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241113230800-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241114114900-Trappist_the_monk-20241113230800"></span>A factual comment, with no opinion: use of <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">usurped</q> and <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">unfit</q> trigger a cs1 warning. As far as I remember without checking they are identical, and the reference renders without link to the original article, while <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">deviated</q> is identical to <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">dead</q>. Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241114114900-Trappist_the_monk-20241113230800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:49, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241114114900-Trappist_the_monk-20241113230800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241114114900-Trappist_the_monk-20241113230800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241114214000-Pol098-20241114114900"></span>It's a maintenance message, not a warning. I'm not super sure of the point, since no maintenance is required and the URL blacklist is a completely separate process. <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=bot: unknown</code> is another maintenance message that needs no attention. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241114214000-Pol098-20241114114900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241114214000-Pol098-20241114114900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241114214000-Pol098-20241114114900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GreenC-20241115030300-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"></span>I'm demoralized somebody is intentionally and systematically removing <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=usurped</code>. I have spent years adding usurp to hijacked domains (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:JUDI" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:JUDI">WP:JUDI</a>). We should remove that maintenance message, it <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&diff=1247745526">keeps coming up as a source of confusion</a>, and now apparently a source of harm to the system. At the same time, what can be done to improve TemplateData? --<a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC"><span style="color: #006A4E;"><b>Green</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenC" title="User talk:GreenC"><span style="color: #093;"><b>C</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-GreenC-20241115030300-Anomalocaris-20241113222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GreenC-20241115030300-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GreenC-20241115030300-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ActivelyDisinterested-20241115103400-GreenC-20241115030300"></span>TemplateData should be collapsed, it's not part of the documentation and any editor who knows what it is and wants to edit it won't be harmed by it being collapsed. At the moment editors mistake it as part of the documentation causing confusion. -- <small>LCU</small> <b><a href="/wiki/User:ActivelyDisinterested" title="User:ActivelyDisinterested">A<small>ctively</small>D<small>isinterested</small></a></b> <small><i>«<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ActivelyDisinterested" title="User talk:ActivelyDisinterested">@</a>» °<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested" title="Special:Contributions/ActivelyDisinterested">∆t</a>°</i></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-ActivelyDisinterested-20241115103400-GreenC-20241115030300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ActivelyDisinterested-20241115103400-GreenC-20241115030300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ActivelyDisinterested-20241115103400-GreenC-20241115030300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241115171600-GreenC-20241115030300"></span>Yeah I got hung up on the subtopic and failed to engage with the real problem here: well-intentioned but misinformed and deliberate disimprovements that undo the work of others and may lead readers to malware, scams, online gambling spam, etc. <del><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a>:</span> suggest <a class="external text" href="https://sigma.toolforge.org/summary.py?name=Anomalocaris&search=url-status&max=500&server=enwiki&ns=%2C%2C&enddate=&startdate=">url-status.</a></del> <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241115171600-GreenC-20241115030300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a> <span style="font-size:85%;"><ins>Edited 15:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC) </ins><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241115171600-GreenC-20241115030300"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241115171600-GreenC-20241115030300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241116120200-GreenC-20241115030300"></span>Comment: the suggested search also finds many pages where "url-status=live", unambiguously incorrect without archive-url, has been deleted by Anomalocaris. I also delete these. Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241116120200-GreenC-20241115030300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:02, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241116120200-GreenC-20241115030300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241116120200-GreenC-20241115030300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GreenC-20241116002900-Pol098-20241116120200"></span>They edited 760 pages, with an edit summary. The JUDI processes has edited about 42,000 pages. About 2%. -- <a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC"><span style="color: #006A4E;"><b>Green</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenC" title="User talk:GreenC"><span style="color: #093;"><b>C</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-GreenC-20241116002900-Pol098-20241116120200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:29, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GreenC-20241116002900-Pol098-20241116120200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GreenC-20241116002900-Pol098-20241116120200"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116151600-GreenC-20241115030300"></span>That was a bad suggestion, posted in haste slightly after my break was already over. I clicked through to and reviewed about 40 diffs from the first page of 500 results (back to summer 2020) where the edit summary made it ambiguous what action was taken. Most were false positives, and of the five instances I found where <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=</code> was changed away from <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">unfit</code> or <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">usurped</code>, today only one is actually a usurped domain, which I fixed at <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1257764735" title="Special:Diff/1257764735">Special:Diff/1257764735</a>. Anomalocaris does a high volume of good and accurate citation gnoming.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a>:</span> could you speculate on the scope of your edits that have removed these statuses?<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>I'll try looking for other edit summary keywords and reviewing the diffs instead of blindly posting poor suggestions here for others to work through. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241116151600-GreenC-20241115030300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116151600-GreenC-20241115030300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241116151600-GreenC-20241115030300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241117170500-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"></span>As a follow up here: I'm experiencing an issue with <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:%CE%A3">Σ</a></span>'s edit summary search tool, where it claims there are 762 hits, but will only display 501. The 501th, from May 2020, is the earliest diff it will return irrespective of specified date range.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>I manually reviewed all the diffs in the displayed results yesterday where it was unclear from the summary whether a <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">usurped</code> or <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">unfit</code> status was being removed, and all the diffs that indicated that was being done (major overlaps with searches for "usurped" and "unfit", which each return four hits). If anyone is able to get the earlier diffs to display, please ping me with a working link to the summary.py results and I'll manually review them.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>The majority of the diffs I checked were false positives (usually clearing up <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=bot: unknown</code>), and of the true positives the switch of <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=</code> was actually correct in most cases: a few US government websites some earlier editor had marked as unfit perhaps as a personal statement, a redirect to a different content page on a safe domain (Salon), and a domain with an expired registration that no one bothered to usurp.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Had no positives with other edit summary searches; out of ideas. I am seeing a very kindred spirit in <a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a>. Unless they are able to estimate a broader scope for this particular change, or we're somehow able to find removals of membership in <a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_unfit_URL" title="Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL">Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL</a> (49,908) with some database query, I'm hesitantly but optimistically suspecting that although the timeframe quoted in the first sentence of the OP is a long one, the volume of this specific change is not particularly high. May this suspicion mollify in particular <a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC">GreenC</a>. For the record, <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241117170500-Folly_Mox-20241116151600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:05, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241117170500-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241117170500-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anomalocaris-20241117185100-Folly_Mox-20241117170500"></span>I am sorry for messing up other editors' work and I would like to make amends. Occasionally I mentioned url-status in edit summaries, but most of my edits involving changing url-status would be covered by "improve <ref>s" rather than "url-status". About a third of my edit summaries include "improve <ref>s", so it would take a long time to examine each of those edits for changing unfit or usurped to dead. Is there any tool that can perform, in effect: <code>For all Anomalocaris edits do if (Diff includes removing "usurped" or "unfit") then (report that edit)</code>? I'm putting a line below this edit to reflect that comments below are actually older and I encourage any replies to be above the line. —<a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anomalocaris" title="User talk:Anomalocaris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Anomalocaris-20241117185100-Folly_Mox-20241117170500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:51, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anomalocaris-20241117185100-Folly_Mox-20241117170500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anomalocaris-20241117185100-Folly_Mox-20241117170500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241118133800-Anomalocaris-20241117185100"></span>I don't think that's possible: someone with more technical knowledge may correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the database only stores the page revisions, and the <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Diff" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Diff">diff extension</a> calculates the differences on request.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Fortunately your estimate seems a bit high: edit summary search for "<a class="external text" href="https://sigma.toolforge.org/summary.py?name=Anomalocaris&search=improve+%3Cref&server=enwiki&max=500&ns=%2C%2C&enddate=&startdate="><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">improve <ref</code></a>" (27 seconds to execute) returns about 4800 hits, pretty close to <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1154941027">.mw-parser-output .frac{white-space:nowrap}.mw-parser-output .frac .num,.mw-parser-output .frac .den{font-size:80%;line-height:0;vertical-align:super}.mw-parser-output .frac .den{vertical-align:sub}.mw-parser-output .sr-only{border:0;clip:rect(0,0,0,0);clip-path:polygon(0px 0px,0px 0px,0px 0px);height:1px;margin:-1px;overflow:hidden;padding:0;position:absolute;width:1px}</style><span class="frac"><span class="num">1</span>⁄<span class="den">11</span></span> of your mainspace contributions. Still rather a lot, but not entirely unmanageable given some time and effort. It's convenient that the change we'll be looking for is simple and requires not much work to address, unlike for example a CCI or ReferenceExpander cleanup. Also I'm sure this activity doesn't occur with <i>that</i> high of a frequency in the target space.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>A database query for edit summary matches <strong>is</strong> something we can request, and might be a better option for generating a worksheet or ten than pounding poor sigma.toolforge over and over.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Thanks for all your work over the years; it's a pity about this misunderstanding, but I'm willing to help wade through the diffs and help repair remaining problem domains. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241118133800-Anomalocaris-20241117185100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:38, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241118133800-Anomalocaris-20241117185100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241118133800-Anomalocaris-20241117185100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241118140900-Folly_Mox-20241118133800"></span>Once we have the full diff list, it wouldn't be too difficult to code up a script that would iterate over the results, retrieve the html of the diff, and log the diff if the html matches <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">/url\-status\s*\=\s*u/</code> or equivalent syntactically correct regex (it's been decades). The resulting positive match subset log could be manually checked with much less labour.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>If no one else gets to it first, I'll see about requesting queries and an edit filter later today. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241118140900-Folly_Mox-20241118133800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241118140900-Folly_Mox-20241118133800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241118140900-Folly_Mox-20241118133800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <hr/> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"></span>Anomalocaris</a>, it would help to be able to review your edits in which you removed "usurped". I see very few that use "usurped" in the edit summary. The most recent are appropriate, since the urls direct to 404 pages; "dead" is the right argument to use. What other edit summaries might lead us to more "usurped" changes? <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-Anomalocaris-20241113222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:25, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"></span> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"></span>A new experiment shows <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_web" title="Template:Cite web">cite web</a>}}</code> with <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=</code> set to any of {usurped, unfit<s>, deviated</s>} generates the warning <span style="color:green"><code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_web" title="Template:Cite web">cite web</a>}}</code>: CS1 maint: url-status (<a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_url-status" title="Category:CS1 maint: url-status">link</a>)</span>. When I started this discussion I thought I saw that deviated did not generate the warning. I may have been mistaken. [Update: deviated doesn't seem to generate the warning. <a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anomalocaris" title="User talk:Anomalocaris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a>]<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-1"></span>I misunderstood the warning to mean, "Please change the URL status to <code>dead</code>. I now understand the warning to mean, "Please find a better reference."</li> <li>Apologies to editors whose efforts to put in usurped status I undermined.</li> <li><s>But I don't understand why you made those efforts, because I don't see the practical difference between an external link that's invalid because the original domain owner didn't renew it, and an external link that's invalid because the webmaster discontinued the page. Either way, it's a dead link. Yes, sometimes it might be possible to find the page on the same website, now organized differently, but usually, when a page is gone it's gone.</s> (strike by <a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anomalocaris" title="User talk:Anomalocaris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-1"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-2"></span>If someone can suggest a way of searching through my over 87,000 edits for changing <code>|url-status=usurped</code> or <code>|url-status=unfit</code> to <code>|url-status=dead</code>, I can review my work, but this would be a huge project; some of the formerly usurped URLs might be dead by now and some of the references may not be in the current version, so it would be a big process.</li> <li><s>If the meaning of the maintenance tag is "Please find a better reference", I believe the maintenance tag should go away if an archive-url is supplied.</s> (strike by <a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anomalocaris" title="User talk:Anomalocaris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500-2"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anomalocaris-20241115192400-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"></span>The documentation should be improved, as I said before, and another improvement is to clarify that the warning message means "Please find a better reference", not "please change the URL status to <code>dead</code>".</li></ul></dd> <dd>—<a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anomalocaris" title="User talk:Anomalocaris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Anomalocaris-20241115192400-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anomalocaris-20241115192400-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anomalocaris-20241115192400-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241115213900-Anomalocaris-20241115192400"></span>Kindly, the important distinction is that <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">usurped</code> and <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">unfit</code> URLs do not generate a clickable link. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241115213900-Anomalocaris-20241115192400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:39, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241115213900-Anomalocaris-20241115192400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241115213900-Anomalocaris-20241115192400"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GreenC-20241115234900-Anomalocaris-20241115192400"></span>User:Anomalocaris</a>: <span style="color:green;">I don't understand why you made those efforts</span>. Really? Since we don't want readers to unwittingly click through to gambling and porn, expecting they would arrive at a normal website, we hide those malicious links by setting them to usurped. You have not noticed this before? <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation web cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20241101010101/https://example.com">"Example with status=dead"</a>. Archived from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://example.com">the original</a> on 2024-11-01.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=unknown&rft.btitle=Example+with+status%3Ddead&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fexample.com&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation web cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20241101010101/https://example.com">"Example with status=usurped"</a>. Archived from the original on 2024-11-01.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=unknown&rft.btitle=Example+with+status%3Dusurped&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fexample.com&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span><span class="cs1-maint citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_web" title="Template:Cite web">cite web</a>}}</code>: CS1 maint: unfit URL (<a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_unfit_URL" title="Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL">link</a>)</span></dd></dl></dd> <dd>You see the difference? One displays a link to "the original" and the other does not. It is why <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=usurped</code> exists. It serves a function, usurped is not just another word for dead. -- <a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC"><span style="color: #006A4E;"><b>Green</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenC" title="User talk:GreenC"><span style="color: #093;"><b>C</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-GreenC-20241115234900-Anomalocaris-20241115192400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:49, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GreenC-20241115234900-Anomalocaris-20241115192400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GreenC-20241115234900-Anomalocaris-20241115192400"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-GreenC-20241115234900"></span>GreenC</a> (also <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a>): Thank you for making the obvious even more obvious. I see it now. I struck two bullets above. I also confirm <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a>'s observation that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">deviated</q> seems to be identical to <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">dead</q> in this regard. —<a href="/wiki/User:Anomalocaris" title="User:Anomalocaris">Anomalocaris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Anomalocaris" title="User talk:Anomalocaris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-GreenC-20241115234900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-GreenC-20241115234900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Anomalocaris-20241116003000-GreenC-20241115234900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241116122300-Anomalocaris-20241116003000"></span>It's been commented here that "Since we don't want readers to unwittingly click through to gambling and porn, expecting they would arrive at a normal website, we hide those malicious links by setting them to usurped." This makes perfect sense; I suggest that it should be mentioned in the documentation, not just "these parameters suppress the original URL". Maybe add "... because they link to inappropriate sites. A maintenance message is generated to suggest that a better link could be found". I don't actually think that a better link is likely to be available in perhaps most cases, sites are often gone with content only findable, sometimes, on the Wayback Machine; I'm not sure, without statistics, that the maintenance message is even useful. Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241116122300-Anomalocaris-20241116003000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241116122300-Anomalocaris-20241116003000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241116122300-Anomalocaris-20241116003000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241116133300-Pol098-20241116122300"></span>The statuses live, dead, unfit, usurped, and deviated are all invisible to readers (for whom Wikipedia is intended), and confusing to editors, in particular with different parameters behaving exactly the same (dead, deviated; unfit, usurped). I would suggest deprecating them all (except live, for archived references), and for all future use suggest live, unavailable (but linked), and unsuitable (no link). It would be up to editors to choose; for example, is a link to, say acme.com/rodulator unavailable or unsuitable when the rodulator is discontinued and the link redirected to the acme.com home page? Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241116133300-Pol098-20241116122300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:33, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241116133300-Pol098-20241116122300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241116133300-Pol098-20241116122300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116151600-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"></span> I think this is a wakeup call that the maintenance message for these <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=</code> values should be suppressed. I'm not sure if there's a better tracking route than adding the article to <a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_unfit_URL" title="Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL">Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL</a> (49,908), but many editors see maintenance categories as problems to fix, rather than just tracking methods. Maybe it could be reparented to <a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_properties" title="Category:CS1 properties">Category:CS1 properties</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241116151600-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116151600-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241116151600-Firefangledfeathers-20241115152500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241116195900-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"></span>"many editors see maintenance categories as problems to fix" - most <em>are</em> problems to fix - missing title, "Editor" as author name or "Archived" as title, and so on. Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241116195900-Folly_Mox-20241116151600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:59, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241116195900-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241116195900-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116210000-Pol098-20241116195900"></span>I should have phrased my words more clearly. Yes, many / most maintenance categories (including subcats of <a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maintenance" title="Category:CS1 maintenance">Category:CS1 maintenance</a>) are full of errors that require repair (phone suggested: full of beans). Maybe I should have differentiated between "maintenance" and "tracking" categories? The software doesn't. My point was that, specifically for the "unfit URL" category, usually the case is that the archive snapshot supports the cited claim, but the URL that used to point to the original now points to garbage. There's usually not a repair to be made, and it certainly isn't just changing the <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=</code> value to one that doesn't emit a message. The fact that an editor of nineteen years with a huge volume of citation gnoming had such a misunderstanding is a signal for more clarity around unfit / usurped URLs. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241116210000-Pol098-20241116195900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116210000-Pol098-20241116195900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241116210000-Pol098-20241116195900"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GreenC-20241117005800-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"></span>User:Folly Mox</a>, <span style="color:green;">maintenance message for these url-status values should be suppressed</span>. Is this occurring at the MediaWiki level outside our (Enwiki) immediate control? -- <a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC"><span style="color: #006A4E;"><b>Green</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenC" title="User talk:GreenC"><span style="color: #093;"><b>C</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-GreenC-20241117005800-Folly_Mox-20241116151600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GreenC-20241117005800-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GreenC-20241117005800-Folly_Mox-20241116151600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241117030600-GreenC-20241117005800"></span>The message is emitted by <a href="/wiki/Module:CS1" class="mw-redirect" title="Module:CS1">Module:CS1</a>. I think it's hidden for people who don't have the custom css set up to display CS1 maintenance messages. Subcats of <a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_properties" title="Category:CS1 properties">Category:CS1 properties</a> each seem to require their own custom css, which makes surfacing them even more intentional for interested editors. Presumably such editors would understand that no action is required for this property. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241117030600-GreenC-20241117005800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:06, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241117030600-GreenC-20241117005800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241117030600-GreenC-20241117005800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241117202600-Folly_Mox-20241117030600"></span>If there are CS1 maintenance messages when an edit is previewed without CS1 messages set to display, there is a prominent notice like "Script warning: One or more {{cite book}} templates have maintenance messages; messages may be hidden (help).", with no indication of what cites are the cause. And, with CS1 messages displayed, a message like "missing publisher" looks a lot more like an error than just a comment. Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241117202600-Folly_Mox-20241117030600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241117202600-Folly_Mox-20241117030600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241117202600-Folly_Mox-20241117030600"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GreenC-20241118004900-Folly_Mox-20241117030600"></span>User:Folly Mox</a>, that's good. Do you think an RfC to disable it, for some or all, would be appropriate? Otherwise this thread will have no result. I can start it, unless there is strong objection to the idea of even having an RfC. -- <a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC"><span style="color: #006A4E;"><b>Green</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenC" title="User talk:GreenC"><span style="color: #093;"><b>C</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-GreenC-20241118004900-Folly_Mox-20241117030600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:49, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GreenC-20241118004900-Folly_Mox-20241117030600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GreenC-20241118004900-Folly_Mox-20241117030600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241118025700-GreenC-20241118004900"></span>For something like reparenting <a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_unfit_URL" title="Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL">Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL</a> under <a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_properties" title="Category:CS1 properties">Category:CS1 properties</a> to become <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:CS1_properties:_unfit_URL&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:CS1 properties: unfit URL (page does not exist)">Category:CS1 properties: unfit URL</a> (which should make the messages less visible, and I hope make these URLs feel like they're not required action items), we could probably just ask <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> nicely. They may also have counterarguments. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CFD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CFD">CFD</a> is probably the follow up venue if a polite request fails here. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241118025700-GreenC-20241118004900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:57, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241118025700-GreenC-20241118004900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241118025700-GreenC-20241118004900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241118134400-GreenC-20241118004900"></span>A complementary measure might be to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EFR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EFR">request an edit filter</a> that detects removal of <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">usurped</code> or <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">unfit</code> from <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=</code> (I wasn't able to find any matching public edit filters, but I'm very inexperienced with them). This could be set to <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">log</code> at first, but potentially upgraded to <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">warn</code> if it works properly. If interested people check through the filter log every once in awhile, we should be able to catch this more quickly. <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241118134400-GreenC-20241118004900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:44, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241118134400-GreenC-20241118004900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241118134400-GreenC-20241118004900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-173.56.111.206-20241122070900-Folly_Mox-20241118134400"></span>I would echo the key point made by <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">User:Folly Mox</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">User:Pol098</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC">User:GreenC</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1247745526" title="Special:Diff/1247745526">previously</a> by <a href="/wiki/User:Manifestation" title="User:Manifestation">User:Manifestation</a>. When a citation template with a valid <code>archive-url</code> correctly sets <code>url-status=usurped</code> etc, it should <i><b>not</b></i> be perpetually flagged with a top-of-the-screen <span style="color:green;">"Script warning ... maintenance message"</span> that prominently, confusingly, and unhelpfully encourages all future editors to waste time diagnosing a citation problem that doesn't exist. I'm sure the warning message was well-intended, but in this case it's doing more harm than good. —<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/173.56.111.206" title="Special:Contributions/173.56.111.206">173.56.111.206</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:173.56.111.206" title="User talk:173.56.111.206">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-173.56.111.206-20241122070900-Folly_Mox-20241118134400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:09, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-173.56.111.206-20241122070900-Folly_Mox-20241118134400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-173.56.111.206-20241122070900-Folly_Mox-20241118134400"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GreenC-20241123171400-Folly_Mox-20241118134400"></span>User:Trappist the monk</a>, would you be amiable to Folly Mox's suggestion to reparent the tracking category? There have been no objections, only support. It seems like a small enough issue we don't need to reargue it all over again at CFD, this is probably the better place for it anyway. -- <a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC"><span style="color: #006A4E;"><b>Green</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenC" title="User talk:GreenC"><span style="color: #093;"><b>C</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-GreenC-20241123171400-Folly_Mox-20241118134400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:14, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GreenC-20241123171400-Folly_Mox-20241118134400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GreenC-20241123171400-Folly_Mox-20241118134400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123204700-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"></span>In the sandbox:</dd></dl> <div style="margin-left:3.2em"> <table class="wikitable"> <caption>Cite book comparison </caption> <tbody><tr> <th scope="row">Wikitext </th> <td><code style="color:inherit; background:inherit; border:none;">{{cite book<wbr/>|archive-date=2024-11-23<wbr/>|archive-url=//archive.org<wbr/>|title=Title<wbr/>|url-status=usurped<wbr/>|url=//example.com}}</code> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row">Live </th> <td><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation book cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="//archive.org"><i>Title</i></a>. Archived from the original on 2024-11-23.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft_id=%2F%2Fexample.com&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span><span class="cs1-maint citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">cite book</a>}}</code>: CS1 maint: unfit URL (<a href="/wiki/Category:CS1_maint:_unfit_URL" title="Category:CS1 maint: unfit URL">link</a>)</span> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row">Sandbox </th> <td class="cs1-sandbox"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation book cs1 cs1-prop-unfit"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="//archive.org"><i>Title</i></a>. Archived from the original on 2024-11-23.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft_id=%2F%2Fexample.com&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd>Articles with <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=unfit</code> and <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=usurped</code> are categorized in <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:CS1:_unfit_URL&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:CS1: unfit URL (page does not exist)">Category:CS1: unfit URL</a>.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123204700-Anomalocaris-20241113222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:47, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123204700-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123204700-Anomalocaris-20241113222200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors-20241114210600"><span id=".22Ambiguous.22_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors-20241114210600"></span>"Ambiguous" numerical month dates leading to many errors<span data-mw-comment-end="h-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors-20241114210600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: "Ambiguous" numerical month dates leading to many errors"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-5.178.188.143-20241114210600-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"></span>This topic has been brought up at least twice, <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_33#edtf_date_formats_as_cs1|2_date_parameter_values" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 33">Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 33#edtf date formats as cs1|2 date parameter values</a> and <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_44#Fix_the_date_formatting" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 44">Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 44#Fix the date formatting</a>, but to no avail. </p><p>Many scientific journals use YYYY-MM format dates and don't bother that they might be interpreted as a range of two years (it's almost impossible in this context). These dates are imported by a gadget which automatically converts URLs into cite templates, but this type of format is prohibited on Wikipedia, leading to CS1 errors. I don't know which gadget is that and where is its talk page so I decided to write here. </p><p>Why wouldn't anyone fix the issue? There are so many possible solutions: automatically convert to the desired format (which is what currently done manually by <a href="/wiki/User:Ira_Leviton" title="User:Ira Leviton">Ira Leviton</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Paul2520" title="User:Paul2520">Paul2520</a> and perhaps some other users, I'm pretty sure they have never seen a single YYYY-YY date), show an error etc. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/5.178.188.143" title="Special:Contributions/5.178.188.143">5.178.188.143</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:5.178.188.143" title="User talk:5.178.188.143">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-5.178.188.143-20241114210600-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-5.178.188.143-20241114210600-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-5.178.188.143-20241114210600-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jonesey95-20241116142300-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"></span>P. S. And by the way, <a href="/wiki/User:Citation_bot" title="User:Citation bot">Citation bot</a> apparently makes such changes in an entirely automatic fashion, without ever verifying that the date was actually YYYY-MM not YYYY-YY. </p> <dl><dd>It is always helpful to link to example diffs, or pages with a problem, when reporting an issue. Please do so. – <a href="/wiki/User:Jonesey95" title="User:Jonesey95">Jonesey95</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95" title="User talk:Jonesey95">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Jonesey95-20241116142300-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jonesey95-20241116142300-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jonesey95-20241116142300-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"></span> <dl><dd><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Steven_Kistler&diff=prev&oldid=1257506607"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-5.178.188.143-20241116160500-Jonesey95-20241116142300"></span>https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Steven_Kistler&diff=prev&oldid=1257506607</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/5.178.188.143" title="Special:Contributions/5.178.188.143">5.178.188.143</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:5.178.188.143" title="User talk:5.178.188.143">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-5.178.188.143-20241116160500-Jonesey95-20241116142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:05, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-5.178.188.143-20241116160500-Jonesey95-20241116142300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-5.178.188.143-20241116160500-Jonesey95-20241116142300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jonesey95-20241117021000-5.178.188.143-20241116160500"></span>That diff shows Citation Bot <em>fixing</em> an unambiguous YYYY-MM problem. – <a href="/wiki/User:Jonesey95" title="User:Jonesey95">Jonesey95</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95" title="User talk:Jonesey95">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Jonesey95-20241117021000-5.178.188.143-20241116160500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jonesey95-20241117021000-5.178.188.143-20241116160500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jonesey95-20241117021000-5.178.188.143-20241116160500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116153200-Jonesey95-20241116142300"></span>According to <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_33#ISBNs_in_mw:Citoid" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 33">a thread</a> a few up from one of the ones mentioned in the OP, this "gadget" is <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Citoid" class="extiw" title="mw:Citoid">Citoid</a>, the Foundation's essentially unmaintained citation problem generator.<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1255586131">.mw-parser-output .fakelinks{color:var(--color-progressive,#0645ad);cursor:default}.mw-parser-output .fakelinks:hover{color:var(--color-progressive--hover,#0645ad)}</style><sup class="reference nowrap ltr fakelinks">[uncharitable characterisation]</sup> Tracked at <a href="https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T132308" class="extiw" title="phab:T132308">phab:T132308</a> (2016, Open, High priority, no assignee). <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241116153200-Jonesey95-20241116142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:32, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116153200-Jonesey95-20241116142300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241116153200-Jonesey95-20241116142300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-5.178.188.143-20241116160100-Folly_Mox-20241116153200"></span>What's wrong with Wikimedia Foundation that they can't fix a high-priority bugs in eight years, aren't they swimming in money and volunteers? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/5.178.188.143" title="Special:Contributions/5.178.188.143">5.178.188.143</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:5.178.188.143" title="User talk:5.178.188.143">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-5.178.188.143-20241116160100-Folly_Mox-20241116153200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-5.178.188.143-20241116160100-Folly_Mox-20241116153200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-5.178.188.143-20241116160100-Folly_Mox-20241116153200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116174200-5.178.188.143-20241116160100"></span>To be fair, there was a lot of progress made in 2021, including global updates to the Citoid codebase and local updates to <a href="/wiki/Module:CS1" class="mw-redirect" title="Module:CS1">Module:CS1</a>. The Foundation devs and contractors tend not to prioritise enwiki specific concerns, and focus on things they presume will benefit all / many projects in the Wikimedia ecosystem.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>I don't think it would be super unreasonable if the Module were updated to convert <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">YYYY-NN</code> to <i><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">month year</code></i> when <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">NN</code> is in the range (01,12). Citing a year range with an ambiguous abbreviated terminus is fair game for miscorrection.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>But, it's easy for me to say that, since I've never actually touched the code and have no responsibility to update it when features are requested. I might also be wrong about the surrounding issues, having not fully read through <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers/Archive_160#ISO_8601_YYYY-MM_Calendar_Date_Format" title="Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers/Archive 160">Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers/Archive 160 § ISO 8601 YYYY-MM Calendar Date Format</a> (June 2020). <a href="/wiki/User:Folly_Mox" title="User:Folly Mox">Folly Mox</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Folly_Mox" title="User talk:Folly Mox">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Folly_Mox-20241116174200-5.178.188.143-20241116160100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Folly_Mox-20241116174200-5.178.188.143-20241116160100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Folly_Mox-20241116174200-5.178.188.143-20241116160100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Eppstein-20241116200400-Folly_Mox-20241116174200"></span>The issue is that formats like 2010-11 cannot be interpreted automatically by the module because they are ambiguous. Someone needs to figure out what the original intent of the date is, because that information is not present in the text. Is it supposed to be 2010–2011 or November 2010? Because the module does not have the information to disambiguate it, it should not try. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-David_Eppstein-20241116200400-Folly_Mox-20241116174200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Eppstein-20241116200400-Folly_Mox-20241116174200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Eppstein-20241116200400-Folly_Mox-20241116174200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-5.178.188.143-20241117101400-David_Eppstein-20241116200400"></span>It's never, ever 2010-2011 <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/5.178.188.143" title="Special:Contributions/5.178.188.143">5.178.188.143</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:5.178.188.143" title="User talk:5.178.188.143">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-5.178.188.143-20241117101400-David_Eppstein-20241116200400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:14, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-5.178.188.143-20241117101400-David_Eppstein-20241116200400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-5.178.188.143-20241117101400-David_Eppstein-20241116200400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stepho-wrs-20241117104200-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"></span>It's not an error or bug. <a href="/wiki/ISO_8601" title="ISO 8601">ISO 8601</a> style dates (yyyy-mm and yyyy-mm-dd) are common in many parts of the world and progressively becoming more common in English speaking parts of the world - at least for official forms, engineering and multinational organisations. Among other reasons, I love it for putting dates in computer file names because it also sorts alphabetically. According to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DATERANGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DATERANGE">WP:DATERANGE</a>, year ranges should be written as 1881–1886, not 1881–86 - so you should never have a year range like 2010-11. If you do see 2010-11 then look around and see if there are other dates like 2010-05 (obviously not a valid year range). The cite templates know about ISO 8601 style dates, so if you have <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Use_dmy_dates" title="Template:Use dmy dates">use dmy dates</a>}}</code> or <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Use_mdy_dates" title="Template:Use mdy dates">use mdy dates</a>}}</code> at the top of the article then the cite templates will transform it into the appropriate style. <span style="border:1px solid blue;border-radius:4px;color:blue;box-shadow: 3px 3px 4px grey;"><a href="/wiki/User:Stepho-wrs" title="User:Stepho-wrs"><b> Stepho </b></a> <span style="font-size:xx-small; vertical-align:top"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Stepho-wrs" title="User talk:Stepho-wrs">talk</a> </span></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Stepho-wrs-20241117104200-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:42, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stepho-wrs-20241117104200-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stepho-wrs-20241117104200-"Ambiguous"_numerical_month_dates_leading_to_many_errors"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url-20241116193700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url-20241116193700"></span>Cite dictionary issue with entry-url<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url-20241116193700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Cite dictionary issue with entry-url"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><code lang="wikitext"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paradoctor-20241116193700-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url"></span>{{cite dictionary |dictionary=[[Oxford English Dictionary]] |entry-url=http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/135679?rskey=7ZL0rI&result=3&isAdvanced=false |entry-url-access=subscription |title=oxymoron |url=https://www.oed.com/dictionary |access-date=26 February 2013}}</code> </p><p>renders as </p><p><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation encyclopaedia cs1"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.oed.com/dictionary">"oxymoron"</a>. <i><a href="/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary" title="Oxford English Dictionary">Oxford English Dictionary</a></i><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">26 February</span> 2013</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=bookitem&rft.atitle=oxymoron&rft.btitle=Oxford+English+Dictionary&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.oed.com%2Fdictionary&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span> </p><p>The rendered citation uses the value of <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url=</code>, not, as expected, <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|entry-url=</code>. <span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(-3deg);bottom:-.1em;"><a href="/wiki/User:Paradoctor" title="User:Paradoctor">Paradoctor</a></span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paradoctor" title="User talk:Paradoctor">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Paradoctor-20241116193700-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paradoctor-20241116193700-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paradoctor-20241116193700-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241116195700-Paradoctor-20241116193700"></span>Too many urls: <dl><dd><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nt">cite dictionary</span> <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">dictionary</span><span class="o">=</span><span class="p">[[</span><span class="nt">Oxford English Dictionary</span><span class="p">]]</span> <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">entry-url</span><span class="o">=</span>http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/135679?rskey=7ZL0rI&result=3&isAdvanced=false <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">entry-url-access</span><span class="o">=</span>subscription <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">entry</span><span class="o">=</span>oxymoron <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">access-date</span><span class="o">=</span>26 February 2013<span class="p">}}</span></code> <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation encyclopaedia cs1"><span class="id-lock-subscription" title="Paid subscription required"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/135679?rskey=7ZL0rI&result=3&isAdvanced=false">"oxymoron"</a></span>. <i><a href="/wiki/Oxford_English_Dictionary" title="Oxford English Dictionary">Oxford English Dictionary</a></i><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">26 February</span> 2013</span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=bookitem&rft.atitle=oxymoron&rft.btitle=Oxford+English+Dictionary&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oed.com%2Fview%2FEntry%2F135679%3Frskey%3D7ZL0rI%26result%3D3%26isAdvanced%3Dfalse&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241116195700-Paradoctor-20241116193700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:57, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241116195700-Paradoctor-20241116193700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241116195700-Paradoctor-20241116193700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paradoctor-20241116202300-Trappist_the_monk-20241116195700"></span>Thanks! <span style="display:inline-block;position:relative;transform:rotate(-3deg);bottom:-.1em;"><a href="/wiki/User:Paradoctor" title="User:Paradoctor">Paradoctor</a></span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paradoctor" title="User talk:Paradoctor">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Paradoctor-20241116202300-Trappist_the_monk-20241116195700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paradoctor-20241116202300-Trappist_the_monk-20241116195700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paradoctor-20241116202300-Trappist_the_monk-20241116195700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:3.2em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:3.2em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pol098-20241116203700-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url"></span>:A comment about the documentation: while <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|entry-url=</code> isn't included in the listed parameters, it is discussed, and the use of both <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url=</code> and <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|entry-url=</code> in an example is given (dictionary is an alias of encyclopedia): </p><ul><li><code>"{{cite encyclopedia |encyclopedia=Biographical Memoirs |volume=82 |date=2003 |given=Arnel R. |surname=Hallauer |entry=John David Axtell |publisher=[[National Academies Press]] |publication-place=Washington, D.C. |language=en |url=https://www.nap.edu/catalog/10683/biographical-memoirs-volume-82 |entry-url=https://www.nap.edu/read/10683/chapter/2}}</code> <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFHallauer2003" class="citation encyclopaedia cs1">Hallauer, Arnel R. (2003). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nap.edu/read/10683/chapter/2">"John David Axtell"</a>. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nap.edu/catalog/10683/biographical-memoirs-volume-82"><i>Biographical Memoirs</i></a>. Vol. 82. Washington, D.C.: <a href="/wiki/National_Academies_Press" title="National Academies Press">National Academies Press</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=bookitem&rft.atitle=John+David+Axtell&rft.btitle=Biographical+Memoirs&rft.place=Washington%2C+D.C.&rft.pub=National+Academies+Press&rft.date=2003&rft.aulast=Hallauer&rft.aufirst=Arnel+R.&rft_id=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nap.edu%2Fread%2F10683%2Fchapter%2F2&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <p>Above is an example of using {{para|entry-url}} to link to the cited entry in the encyclopedia while also using {{para|url}} to link to the encyclopedia as a whole." </p><p>Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Pol098" title="User:Pol098">Pol098</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pol098" title="User talk:Pol098">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Pol098-20241116203700-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pol098-20241116203700-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pol098-20241116203700-Cite_dictionary_issue_with_entry-url"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241116205800-Pol098-20241116203700"></span>In OP's example, it is not possible to use <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url=</code> to link <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">the [dictionary] as a whole</q> because <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr">|dictionary=<span class="p">[[</span><span class="nt">Oxford English Dictionary</span><span class="p">]]</span></code>; you cannot link the <code>Oxford English Dictionary</code> text to two separate targets at the same time.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241116205800-Pol098-20241116203700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:58, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241116205800-Pol098-20241116203700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241116205800-Pol098-20241116203700"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Error_related_to_Template:CS1_language_sources" data-mw-thread-id="h-Error_related_to_Template:CS1_language_sources-20241117135200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Error_related_to_Template:CS1_language_sources-20241117135200"></span>Error related to Template:CS1 language sources<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Error_related_to_Template:CS1_language_sources-20241117135200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Error related to Template:CS1 language sources"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Category:Articles_with_Moldovan-language_sources_(ro-md)" title="Category:Articles with Moldovan-language sources (ro-md)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gonnym-20241117135200-Error_related_to_Template:CS1_language_sources"></span>Category:Articles with Moldovan-language sources (ro-md)</a>, which uses <a href="/wiki/Template:CS1_language_sources" title="Template:CS1 language sources">Template:CS1 language sources</a> (which talk page redirects here) has an error. </p> <ul><li>The error does not explain how or what should be done.</li> <li>The category isn't added to <a href="/wiki/Category:Language_templates_errors" title="Category:Language templates errors">Category:Language templates errors</a>.</li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Gonnym" title="User:Gonnym">Gonnym</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gonnym" title="User talk:Gonnym">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Gonnym-20241117135200-Error_related_to_Template:CS1_language_sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:52, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gonnym-20241117135200-Error_related_to_Template:CS1_language_sources"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gonnym-20241117135200-Error_related_to_Template:CS1_language_sources"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117151200-Gonnym-20241117135200"></span>That was Editor <a href="/wiki/User:Error" title="User:Error">Error</a> living up to their username. <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:CS1_language_sources" title="Template:CS1 language sources">CS1 language sources</a>}}</code> is for categories with the name structure: <dl><dd>Category:CS1 <<var style="padding-right: 1px;">language name</var>>-language sources (<<var style="padding-right: 1px;">tag</var>>)</dd></dl></dd> <dd>For categories with the name structure: <dl><dd>Category:Articles with <<var style="padding-right: 1px;">language name</var>>-language sources (<<var style="padding-right: 1px;">tag</var>>)</dd></dl></dd> <dd>use <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Non-English-language_sources_category" title="Template:Non-English-language sources category">Non-English-language sources category</a>}}</code>.</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>Preview is your friend; use it.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117151200-Gonnym-20241117135200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:12, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117151200-Gonnym-20241117135200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117151200-Gonnym-20241117135200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Error-20241118003200-Trappist_the_monk-20241117151200"></span>Sorry. It seems I copied from the wrong page and I didn't understand the error message. --<a href="/wiki/User:Error" title="User:Error">Error</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Error" title="User talk:Error">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Error-20241118003200-Trappist_the_monk-20241117151200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:32, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Error-20241118003200-Trappist_the_monk-20241117151200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Error-20241118003200-Trappist_the_monk-20241117151200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Double-checking_regarding_year_disambiguation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Double-checking_regarding_year_disambiguation-20241117181700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Double-checking_regarding_year_disambiguation-20241117181700"></span>Double-checking regarding year disambiguation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Double-checking_regarding_year_disambiguation-20241117181700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Double-checking regarding year disambiguation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Remsense-20241117181700-Double-checking_regarding_year_disambiguation"></span>When a citation uses a letter e.g. <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|year=1997a</code>, the <a href="/wiki/COinS" title="COinS">COinS</a> metadata is unaltered, right? <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F"><a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense"><span style="color:#fff"><b>Remsense</b></span></a><span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense"><span lang="zh" style="color:#fff"><b>论</b></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Remsense-20241117181700-Double-checking_regarding_year_disambiguation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:17, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Remsense-20241117181700-Double-checking_regarding_year_disambiguation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Remsense-20241117181700-Double-checking_regarding_year_disambiguation"></span> </p> <dl><dd><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117182500-Remsense-20241117181700"></span>{{</span><span class="nt">cite book</span> <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">title</span><span class="o">=</span>Title <span class="p">|</span><span class="nl">date</span><span class="o">=</span>1997a<span class="p">}}</span></code> <dl><dd><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-html mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">'"`UNIQ--templatestyles-000000D7-QINU`"'<span class="p"><</span><span class="nt">cite</span> <span class="na">class</span><span class="o">=</span><span class="s">"citation book cs1"</span><span class="p">></span>''Title''. 1997a.<span class="p"></</span><span class="nt">cite</span><span class="p">><</span><span class="nt">span</span> <span class="na">title</span><span class="o">=</span><span class="s">"ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.date=1997&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1"</span> <span class="na">class</span><span class="o">=</span><span class="s">"Z3988"</span><span class="p">></</span><span class="nt">span</span><span class="p">></span></code> <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation book cs1"><i>Title</i>. 1997a.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Title&rft.date=1997&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117182500-Remsense-20241117181700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:25, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117182500-Remsense-20241117181700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117182500-Remsense-20241117181700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Remsense-20241117182800-Trappist_the_monk-20241117182500"></span>Thank you! I guess I meant to clarify that this format has the intended, recommended effect, but since it's plainly listed I'm not quite sure what I was worried about. <span style="border-radius:2px;padding:3px;background:#1E816F"><a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense"><span style="color:#fff"><b>Remsense</b></span></a><span style="color:#fff"> ‥ </span><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense"><span lang="zh" style="color:#fff"><b>论</b></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Remsense-20241117182800-Trappist_the_monk-20241117182500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:28, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Remsense-20241117182800-Trappist_the_monk-20241117182500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Remsense-20241117182800-Trappist_the_monk-20241117182500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="URL_for_original_edition_of_book" data-mw-thread-id="h-URL_for_original_edition_of_book-20241117185300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-URL_for_original_edition_of_book-20241117185300"></span>URL for original edition of book<span data-mw-comment-end="h-URL_for_original_edition_of_book-20241117185300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: URL for original edition of book"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tule-hog-20241117185300-URL_for_original_edition_of_book"></span>There is a book where only the original edition has an open access online copy, seen at <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Kelley_1975" title="Template:Kelley 1975">Kelley 1975</a>}}</code> (created for use with <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Sfn" title="Template:Sfn">sfn</a>}}</code>). The URL links to the 1955 edition, but the citation includes information about both the 1st (via <code>|orig-date</code>) and 2nd editions. Should there be an <code>|orig-url</code>, or is there a concise way to indicate that a link is to an older edition in <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">cite book</a>}}</code>? <a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Tule-hog-20241117185300-URL_for_original_edition_of_book" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tule-hog-20241117185300-URL_for_original_edition_of_book"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tule-hog-20241117185300-URL_for_original_edition_of_book"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117191000-Tule-hog-20241117185300"></span>Don't confuse the reader by specifying the second edition and then linking to the 1955 (1st?) edition. Those are two different sources with different bibliographic details so cite the <em>one</em> you consulted, You can modify the template so that you can specify one or the other but don't mash two sources into one template.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117191000-Tule-hog-20241117185300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117191000-Tule-hog-20241117185300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117191000-Tule-hog-20241117185300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tule-hog-20241117193500-Trappist_the_monk-20241117191000"></span>(Yes - 1st=1955, 2nd=1975.) Given the two editions are page-for-page almost identical, wouldn't it be to the benefit of readers and editors to include the link? The book is cited across many articles, and it seems unclean to include both editions separately on each just for the sake of supplying a link, and best practice to cite the most recent edition regardless of availability (with some exceptions). <a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Tule-hog-20241117193500-Trappist_the_monk-20241117191000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:35, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tule-hog-20241117193500-Trappist_the_monk-20241117191000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tule-hog-20241117193500-Trappist_the_monk-20241117191000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tule-hog-20241117193600-Tule-hog-20241117193500"></span>(Apologies if I misinterpreted and you were referring to modifying <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">cite book</a>}}</code>!) <a href="/wiki/User:Tule-hog" title="User:Tule-hog">Tule-hog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tule-hog" title="User talk:Tule-hog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Tule-hog-20241117193600-Tule-hog-20241117193500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tule-hog-20241117193600-Tule-hog-20241117193500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tule-hog-20241117193600-Tule-hog-20241117193500"></span></dd> <dd></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117224500-Tule-hog-20241117193500"></span>That is still two sources with two separate and different sets of bibliographic details: <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFKelley1955" class="citation book cs1"><a href="/wiki/John_L._Kelley" title="John L. Kelley">Kelley, John L.</a> (1955). <i>General Topology</i>. New York: D. Van Nostrand.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=General+Topology&rft.place=New+York&rft.pub=D.+Van+Nostrand&rft.date=1955&rft.aulast=Kelley&rft.aufirst=John+L.&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFKelley1975" class="citation book cs1"><a href="/wiki/John_L._Kelley" title="John L. Kelley">Kelley, John L.</a> (1975). <i>General Topology</i> (2nd ed.). New York: <a href="/wiki/Springer_Science%2BBusiness_Media" title="Springer Science+Business Media">Springer-Verlag</a>. <a href="/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISBN (identifier)">ISBN</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:BookSources/978-0-387-90125-1" title="Special:BookSources/978-0-387-90125-1"><bdi>978-0-387-90125-1</bdi></a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=General+Topology&rft.place=New+York&rft.edition=2nd&rft.pub=Springer-Verlag&rft.date=1975&rft.isbn=978-0-387-90125-1&rft.aulast=Kelley&rft.aufirst=John+L.&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Were the bibliographic details the same edition-to-edition, then <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|orig-date=1955</code> and <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url=https://archive.org/details/GeneralTopologyJohnL.Kelley</code> might be acceptable. As those details are not the same edition-to-edition, I do not think that <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|orig-date=</code> and <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url=</code> are appropriate.</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>You might change the template so that it renders something like this: <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFKelley1975" class="citation book cs1"><a href="/wiki/John_L._Kelley" title="John L. Kelley">Kelley, John L.</a> (1975). <i>General Topology</i> (2nd ed.). New York: <a href="/wiki/Springer_Science%2BBusiness_Media" title="Springer Science+Business Media">Springer-Verlag</a>. <a href="/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISBN (identifier)">ISBN</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:BookSources/978-0-387-90125-1" title="Special:BookSources/978-0-387-90125-1"><bdi>978-0-387-90125-1</bdi></a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=General+Topology&rft.place=New+York&rft.edition=2nd&rft.pub=Springer-Verlag&rft.date=1975&rft.isbn=978-0-387-90125-1&rft.aulast=Kelley&rft.aufirst=John+L.&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/GeneralTopologyJohnL.Kelley">1955 edition</a>)</dd></dl></dd> <dd>This complies with the one-source-one-template rule and still gives you the link to the first edition.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117224500-Tule-hog-20241117193500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117224500-Tule-hog-20241117193500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241117224500-Tule-hog-20241117193500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Title_case" data-mw-thread-id="h-Title_case-20241118182000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Title_case-20241118182000"></span>Title case<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Title_case-20241118182000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Title case"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lazman321-20241118182000-Title_case"></span>As of now, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CS1#Titles_and_chapters" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CS1">WP:CS1#Titles and chapters</a> says, "Use title case unless the cited source covers a scientific, legal or other technical topic and sentence case is the predominant style in journals on that topic. Use either title case or sentence case consistently throughout the article." </p><p>Is this the consensus of the community? Because it does not appear to be enforced consistently in Wikipedia among featured articles. Look at the current <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TFA">WP:TFA</a>, <i><a href="/wiki/Donkey_Kong_Country" title="Donkey Kong Country">Donkey Kong Country</a></i>, for example. The articles' citations do not consistently use title case or sentence case in its titles, but instead, use the title case or sentence case depending on what the source cited uses. And prior to the peer review for <a href="/wiki/Bejeweled_(video_game)" title="Bejeweled (video game)"><i>Bejeweled</i> (video game)</a> just now, I've never been asked to follow this guideline. </p><p>Honestly, in my opinion, regarding articles and chapters in particular, I think it's best to just use whichever case the source uses. If the source uses title case, use title case. If the source uses sentence case, use sentence case. After all, it's more accurate to the source and is just more convenient when citing sources, especially since most news sources use sentence case for their articles titles. <a href="/wiki/User:Lazman321" title="User:Lazman321">Lazman321</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lazman321" title="User talk:Lazman321">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Lazman321-20241118182000-Title_case" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:20, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lazman321-20241118182000-Title_case"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lazman321-20241118182000-Title_case"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rjjiii-20241119034100-Lazman321-20241118182000"></span>It's the guidance at <a href="/wiki/MOS:TITLECAPS" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:TITLECAPS">MOS:TITLECAPS</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Rjjiii" title="User:Rjjiii"><span style="font-variant:small-caps;">Rjj<sup>iii</sup></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rjjiii" title="User talk:Rjjiii">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Rjjiii-20241119034100-Lazman321-20241118182000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:41, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rjjiii-20241119034100-Lazman321-20241118182000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rjjiii-20241119034100-Lazman321-20241118182000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lazman321-20241120042900-Rjjiii-20241119034100"></span>That doesn't really answer my question. MOS:TITLECAPS says, "WP:Citing sources § Citation style permits the use of pre-defined, off-Wikipedia citation styles within Wikipedia, and some of these expect sentence case for certain titles (usually article and chapter titles). Title case should not be imposed on such titles under such a citation style consistently used in an article." Essentially, it defers to whatever the official guidelines of a particular citation style are, and the guidelines for CS1 are what I'm contesting right now.</dd> <dd>What I asked was whether there was a consensus on this matter. Right now, I'm looking through forum discussions, and the most extensive discussion I could find was from 2017 in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources/Archive_44#Title_case?" title="Wikipedia talk:Citing sources/Archive 44">Wikipedia talk:Citing sources/Archive 44#Title case?</a> in which the general attitude appeared to be that sentence case was fine for titles of articles and chapters. A user from that discussion, SMcCandlish, essentially reinforced this at <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_92#Article_titles" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 92">Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 92#Article titles</a> this very year. Is that the consensus, and if so, would it be best for this page to be changed and accommodate it? <a href="/wiki/User:Lazman321" title="User:Lazman321">Lazman321</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lazman321" title="User talk:Lazman321">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Lazman321-20241120042900-Rjjiii-20241119034100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:29, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lazman321-20241120042900-Rjjiii-20241119034100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lazman321-20241120042900-Rjjiii-20241119034100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241120094100-Lazman321-20241120042900"></span>I read the guidance at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CS1#Titles_and_chapters" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CS1">WP:CS1#Titles and chapters</a>, which you challenge, as mainly concerned with titles of larger works. Its sentences on short works is an aside explaining a different styling. My practice is to apply title case for longer works, and leave shorter works as I find them. In general, <a href="/wiki/MOS:TITLECAPS" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:TITLECAPS">MOS:TITLECAPS</a> wins. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Bednarek" title="User:Michael Bednarek">Michael Bednarek</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Bednarek" title="User talk:Michael Bednarek">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Michael_Bednarek-20241120094100-Lazman321-20241120042900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241120094100-Lazman321-20241120042900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241120094100-Lazman321-20241120042900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Headbomb-20241120122000-Michael_Bednarek-20241120094100"></span>Personally, I apply title case to the titles of major works (e.g. journals, book titles, websites etc...) per <a href="/wiki/MOS:TITLECAPS" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:TITLECAPS">MOS:TITLECAPS</a>, and sentence case to sub-sections of it (article title, chapter titles, etc...). "Article about interesting things" in <i>Journal of Stuff</i>, "Chapter 2: The return of the mad Czar" in <i>The History of Czars</i>. This is how I've seen in done in virtually all well-formatted articles, and most citation guides. If someone used title case across the board, I won't edit war over it, but I find it very strange. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;"><a href="/wiki/User:Headbomb" title="User:Headbomb">Headbomb</a> {<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Headbomb" title="User talk:Headbomb">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Headbomb" title="Special:Contributions/Headbomb">c</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PHYS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PHYS">p</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WBOOKS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WBOOKS">b</a>}</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Headbomb-20241120122000-Michael_Bednarek-20241120094100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Headbomb-20241120122000-Michael_Bednarek-20241120094100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Headbomb-20241120122000-Michael_Bednarek-20241120094100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Eppstein-20241120195000-Headbomb-20241120122000"></span>That is my preference as well. But <a href="/wiki/MathSciNet" title="MathSciNet">MathSciNet</a> and <a href="/wiki/ZbMATH" class="mw-redirect" title="ZbMATH">zbMATH</a>, the two major bibliographic databases for mathematics, use sentence case for book titles (but not journal titles), so that at least is a well-established alternative convention in some fields. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-David_Eppstein-20241120195000-Headbomb-20241120122000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:50, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Eppstein-20241120195000-Headbomb-20241120122000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Eppstein-20241120195000-Headbomb-20241120122000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241120233100-David_Eppstein-20241120195000"></span>The idiosyncrasies of such databases should be ignored in favour of MOS:TITLECAPS. <i>War and peace a historical novel</i>, as used at <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><a href="/wiki/OCLC_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="OCLC (identifier)">OCLC</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/656581151">656581151</a>, is an abomination. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Bednarek" title="User:Michael Bednarek">Michael Bednarek</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Bednarek" title="User talk:Michael Bednarek">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Michael_Bednarek-20241120233100-David_Eppstein-20241120195000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:31, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241120233100-David_Eppstein-20241120195000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241120233100-David_Eppstein-20241120195000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="News_aggregators_parameter" data-mw-thread-id="h-News_aggregators_parameter-20241119022300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-News_aggregators_parameter-20241119022300"></span>News aggregators parameter<span data-mw-comment-end="h-News_aggregators_parameter-20241119022300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: News aggregators parameter"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seefooddiet-20241119022300-News_aggregators_parameter"></span>For a source via a <a href="/wiki/News_aggregator" title="News aggregator">news aggregator</a> (e.g. Yahoo News), in <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Citation" title="Template:Citation">Citation</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> and variants, should we use the <code>|via=</code> or <code>|publisher=</code> parameter for the aggregator? </p><p>E.g. should we do <code>|newspaper=The New York Times |via=Yahoo News</code>? <a href="/wiki/User:Seefooddiet" title="User:Seefooddiet">seefooddiet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seefooddiet" title="User talk:Seefooddiet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Seefooddiet-20241119022300-News_aggregators_parameter" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:23, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seefooddiet-20241119022300-News_aggregators_parameter"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seefooddiet-20241119022300-News_aggregators_parameter"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241119035200-Seefooddiet-20241119022300"></span>Yes, because Yahoo News is the content deliverer.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241119035200-Seefooddiet-20241119022300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:52, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241119035200-Seefooddiet-20241119022300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241119035200-Seefooddiet-20241119022300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="'Reformat_dates'_function" data-mw-thread-id="h-'Reformat_dates'_function-20241120203500"><span id=".27Reformat_dates.27_function"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-'Reformat_dates'_function-20241120203500"></span>'Reformat dates' function<span data-mw-comment-end="h-'Reformat_dates'_function-20241120203500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: 'Reformat dates' function"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iniquity-20241120203500-'Reformat_dates'_function"></span>Hi! I'm trying to figure out the date reformatting function: <a href="/wiki/Module:Citation/CS1/Date_validation#L-841" title="Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation">Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation#L-841</a>. I see that the module can convert dates to <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>n F Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">}}</span></code> -> 10 October 2024, is it possible to convert in <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>n xg Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">}}</span> (month in genitive form)</code> -> 10 October 2024? </p><p>But I need to save <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>F Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">}}</span></code> -> October 2024 option. <a href="/wiki/User:Iniquity" title="User:Iniquity">Iniquity</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iniquity" title="User talk:Iniquity">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Iniquity-20241120203500-'Reformat_dates'_function" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:35, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iniquity-20241120203500-'Reformat_dates'_function"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iniquity-20241120203500-'Reformat_dates'_function"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241120224700-Iniquity-20241120203500"></span>It is not really clear to me what it is that you are asking. cs1|2 doesn't use the <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##time" class="extiw" title="mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions">#time parser function</a> to do date conversions.</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>The #time parser is not used because we can't write something like: <dl><dd><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>Y-m-d<span class="p">|</span>10 octobre 2024<span class="p">}}</span></code></dd></dl></dd> <dd>on the French Wikipedia; doing so results in <strong class="error">Erreur : durée invalide.</strong> This despite the #time parser's ability to render this at en.wiki: <dl><dd><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>n F Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">|</span>fr<span class="p">}}</span></code> → 10 octobre 2024</dd></dl></dd> <dd>You would think that, for an 'international' project, accepting dates with local-language month names as input would go hand-in-hand with rendering local-language month names.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241120224700-Iniquity-20241120203500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:47, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241120224700-Iniquity-20241120203500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241120224700-Iniquity-20241120203500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iniquity-20241121050900-Trappist_the_monk-20241120224700"></span>Thanks for the answer! I mean that now the 'long' array from 'date_names' in <a href="/wiki/Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration" title="Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration">Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration</a> is used to form the date. There the months are in the nominative case, but for the Russian language the genitive case is needed for 'dmy' form and nominative case for 'my' form. Is it possible to add an additional array with genitive case? <a href="/wiki/User:Iniquity" title="User:Iniquity">Iniquity</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iniquity" title="User talk:Iniquity">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Iniquity-20241121050900-Trappist_the_monk-20241120224700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iniquity-20241121050900-Trappist_the_monk-20241120224700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iniquity-20241121050900-Trappist_the_monk-20241120224700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600-Iniquity-20241121050900"></span>Just for clarity, you want: <dl><dd>10 октября 2024 ← <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>n xg Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">|</span>ru<span class="p">}}</span></code> – genitive for all 'dmy' dates; including ranges? what about mdy?</dd> <dd>октябрь 2024 ← <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>F Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">|</span>ru<span class="p">}}</span></code> – nominative for 'my' dates only; including ranges?</dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##time" class="extiw" title="mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions">#time parser function</a> alludes to other languages that have nominative/genitive date forms. Do they follow the same rules as the Russian dates?</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>I have some ideas for resolution of this issue. I'll think more on it. My time is occupied elsewhere so I won't be able to get to this until later this week or next week. In the meantime, here is your assignment: <ol><li>MediaWiki supports about <a href="/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias" title="List of Wikipedias">350 editions of Wikipedia</a>. Assemble a list of those Wikipedia-edition languages that have nominative/genitive date forms.</li> <li>determine which date formats from the above assembled list need nominative month names and which formats need genitive names.</li></ol></dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600-Iniquity-20241121050900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600-Iniquity-20241121050900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600-Iniquity-20241121050900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iniquity-20241121184200-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">10 октября 2024 ← <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>n xg Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">|</span>ru<span class="p">}}</span></code></q><br/>My mistake, must be <code>j</code> not <code>n</code> - <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>j xg Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">|</span>ru<span class="p">}}</span></code><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">genitive for all 'dmy' dates; including ranges?</q><br/>Yes.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">what about mdy?</q><br/>We dont use this format, we can leave the nominative case, but I found something, I'll write it below.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">октябрь 2024 ← <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-wikitext mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="p">{{</span><span class="nf">#time</span><span class="p">:</span>F Y<span class="p">|</span>2024-10-10<span class="p">|</span>ru<span class="p">}}</span></code> – nominative for 'my' dates only; including ranges?</q><br/>Yes, but the first letter of the first month must be capitalized.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##time" class="extiw" title="mediawikiwiki:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions">#time parser function</a> alludes to other languages that have nominative/genitive date forms. Do they follow the same rules as the Russian dates?</q><br/>This is a relatively complex issue, I found such a list of formats for each language. And now it seems to me that the genitive case is not the only problem of internalization:<br/><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://codesearch.wmcloud.org/core/?q=dmy+date&files=languages%2Fmessages&excludeFiles=&repos=">https://codesearch.wmcloud.org/core/?q=dmy+date&files=languages%2Fmessages&excludeFiles=&repos=</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Iniquity" title="User:Iniquity">Iniquity</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iniquity" title="User talk:Iniquity">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Iniquity-20241121184200-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iniquity-20241121184200-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iniquity-20241121184200-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100-Iniquity-20241121184200"></span>That can't be the whole list can it? Why is ru.wiki not on that list?</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100-Iniquity-20241121184200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100-Iniquity-20241121184200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100-Iniquity-20241121184200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iniquity-20241122063800-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100"></span>This is a complete list, you just need to load the remaining lines, messageRU.php there.</dd> <dd><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-none" typeof="mw:File/Frameless"><a href="/wiki/File:MediaWiki_2024-11-22_06-37-17.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/MediaWiki_2024-11-22_06-37-17.png/220px-MediaWiki_2024-11-22_06-37-17.png" decoding="async" width="220" height="87" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/MediaWiki_2024-11-22_06-37-17.png/330px-MediaWiki_2024-11-22_06-37-17.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/MediaWiki_2024-11-22_06-37-17.png/440px-MediaWiki_2024-11-22_06-37-17.png 2x" data-file-width="467" data-file-height="184"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <a href="/wiki/User:Iniquity" title="User:Iniquity">Iniquity</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iniquity" title="User talk:Iniquity">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Iniquity-20241122063800-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:38, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iniquity-20241122063800-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iniquity-20241122063800-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iniquity-20241121185500-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600"></span>I think it is possible to use <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual#mw.language:formatDate" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual">lang:formatDate</a> for catch necessary formats. <a href="/wiki/User:Iniquity" title="User:Iniquity">Iniquity</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iniquity" title="User talk:Iniquity">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Iniquity-20241121185500-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iniquity-20241121185500-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iniquity-20241121185500-Trappist_the_monk-20241121153600"></span> <dl><dd><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Scribunto/Lua_reference_manual#mw.language:formatDate" class="extiw" title="mw:Extension:Scribunto/Lua reference manual"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100-Iniquity-20241121185500"></span>lang:formatDate()</a> is the Scributo version of the <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##time" class="extiw" title="mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions">#time parser function</a>. Try this in a module debug console at ru.wiki: <dl><dd><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="o">=</span><span class="n">mw</span><span class="p">.</span><span class="n">language</span><span class="p">.</span><span class="n">getContentLanguage</span><span class="p">():</span><span class="n">formatDate</span> <span class="p">(</span><span class="s1">'j F Y'</span><span class="p">)</span></code> → 21 ноябрь 2024</dd></dl></dd> <dd>I used that to get the month name. Then, I turned it round and attempted to get a YYYY-MM-DD date from the Russian DMY: <dl><dd><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="o">=</span><span class="n">mw</span><span class="p">.</span><span class="n">language</span><span class="p">.</span><span class="n">getContentLanguage</span><span class="p">():</span><span class="n">formatDate</span> <span class="p">(</span><span class="s1">'Y-m-d'</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="s1">'21 ноябрь 2024'</span><span class="p">)</span></code> → Ошибка Lua: bad argument #2 to 'formatDate': invalid timestamp '21 ноябрь 2024' ... and some other error message stuff</dd></dl></dd> <dd>To prove that the call was structured correctly, I changed 'ноябрь' to 'November': <dl><dd><code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-lua mw-content-ltr" dir="ltr"><span class="o">=</span><span class="n">mw</span><span class="p">.</span><span class="n">language</span><span class="p">.</span><span class="n">getContentLanguage</span><span class="p">():</span><span class="n">formatDate</span> <span class="p">(</span><span class="s1">'Y-m-d'</span><span class="p">,</span> <span class="s1">'21 November 2024'</span><span class="p">)</span></code> → 2024-11-21</dd></dl></dd> <dd>mw.language:formatDate() will not work for date format conversion in <a href="/wiki/Module:Citation/CS1/Date_validation" title="Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation">Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation</a>.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100-Iniquity-20241121185500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100-Iniquity-20241121185500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100-Iniquity-20241121185500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iniquity-20241122063900-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100"></span>Yes, I know :( It doesn't work well with anything that isn't ISO. But it converts ISO to the required format well. <a href="/wiki/User:Iniquity" title="User:Iniquity">Iniquity</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iniquity" title="User talk:Iniquity">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Iniquity-20241122063900-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iniquity-20241122063900-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iniquity-20241122063900-Trappist_the_monk-20241121224100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iniquity-20241124103900-Iniquity-20241122063900"></span>I would like to separately tell you that we have adopted a <a href="https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%9F:%D0%A2%D0%94" class="extiw" title="ru:ВП:ТД">local rule</a> that all service dates must be machine-readable (to simplify the transfer of information from wiki to wiki) and we convert them into ISO using a bot.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>I tried to globalize it (<a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_comment/Technical_agreement_on_dates_and_times" class="extiw" title="meta:Requests for comment/Technical agreement on dates and times">meta:Requests for comment/Technical agreement on dates and times</a>) somehow, but I didn't succeed very well. <a href="/wiki/User:Iniquity" title="User:Iniquity">Iniquity</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iniquity" title="User talk:Iniquity">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Iniquity-20241124103900-Iniquity-20241122063900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:39, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iniquity-20241124103900-Iniquity-20241122063900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iniquity-20241124103900-Iniquity-20241122063900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Original_title" data-mw-thread-id="h-Original_title-20241120204400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Original_title-20241120204400"></span>Original title<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Original_title-20241120204400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Original title"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Carnby-20241120204400-Original_title"></span>I was editing <a href="/wiki/Dobermann" title="Dobermann">Dobermann</a> and I found a book edited with two different titles in two different editions; in <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">cite book</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> there's no parameter <code>|orig-title=</code> (unlike <code>|orig-year=</code>}}; my workaround was that: <code>{{cite book |last1=Scott |first1=John Paul |last2=Fuller |first2=John L. |orig-year=1965 |year=1975 |title=Dog Behavior: the Genetic Basis |edition=''Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog'' new |location=Chicago and London |publisher=University of Chicago Press |isbn=0-226-74335-7 |url=https://archive.org/details/dogbehaviorgenet00scot |via=Internet Archive}}</code>, yielding (<i>Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog</i> new ed.). The first edition was published in 1965 as <i>Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog</i> and the book itself is is better known with that title. Is it acceptable?-- <a href="/wiki/User:Carnby" title="User:Carnby">Carnby</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carnby" title="User talk:Carnby">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Carnby-20241120204400-Original_title" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:44, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Carnby-20241120204400-Original_title"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Carnby-20241120204400-Original_title"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241120210600-Carnby-20241120204400"></span>Do not abuse cs1|2 parameters. Cite the source that you consulted. If you consulted both, cite both in separate templates. Do not mash both sources into a single template.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241120210600-Carnby-20241120204400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241120210600-Carnby-20241120204400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241120210600-Carnby-20241120204400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Carnby-20241120220700-Trappist_the_monk-20241120210600"></span>Thank you. Fixed.-- <a href="/wiki/User:Carnby" title="User:Carnby">Carnby</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Carnby" title="User talk:Carnby">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Carnby-20241120220700-Trappist_the_monk-20241120210600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Carnby-20241120220700-Trappist_the_monk-20241120210600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Carnby-20241120220700-Trappist_the_monk-20241120210600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cite_book_editor_names" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cite_book_editor_names-20241121171000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cite_book_editor_names-20241121171000"></span>Cite book editor names<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cite_book_editor_names-20241121171000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Cite book editor names"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121171000-Cite_book_editor_names"></span>In the <a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">Template:Cite book</a> template data, the author first name parameters are named "First name", "First name 2", "First name 3" etc. The last names, masks and links follow this convention, as do the translator first names and last names. </p><p>But, when it comes to the editors, it follows the separate convention "Last name of second editor", "Last name of third editor" etc. for the editor first names, last names, masks and links. </p><p>Why is this, and can the editor parameter named be changed to conform? <a href="/wiki/User:It_is_a_wonderful_world" title="User:It is a wonderful world">It is a wonderful world</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:It_is_a_wonderful_world" title="User talk:It is a wonderful world">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121171000-Cite_book_editor_names" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:10, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121171000-Cite_book_editor_names"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121171000-Cite_book_editor_names"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Headbomb-20241121181400-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121171000"></span>Do you have an example in mind? Because I really don't know see what problem you're having with parameter names. For authors, <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|last<i>n</i>=</code>/<code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|first<i>n</i>=</code>, for editors, <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|editor-last<i>n</i>=</code>/<code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|editor-first<i>n</i>=</code>. If you want to be ultrapedantic, you can even use <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|author-last<i>n</i>=</code>/<code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|author-first<i>n</i>=</code> instead of <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|last<i>n</i>=</code>/<code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|first<i>n</i>=</code>. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;"><a href="/wiki/User:Headbomb" title="User:Headbomb">Headbomb</a> {<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Headbomb" title="User talk:Headbomb">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Headbomb" title="Special:Contributions/Headbomb">c</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PHYS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PHYS">p</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WBOOKS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WBOOKS">b</a>}</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Headbomb-20241121181400-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121171000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:14, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Headbomb-20241121181400-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121171000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Headbomb-20241121181400-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121171000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121181900-Headbomb-20241121181400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Headbomb" title="User:Headbomb">Headbomb</a> Thank you for asking for clarification, I forgot to say that I saw this when using the add template function in the visual editor (the puzzle piece icon in the toolbar). It made it more confusing when scrolling through the parameters. <a href="/wiki/User:It_is_a_wonderful_world" title="User:It is a wonderful world">It is a wonderful world</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:It_is_a_wonderful_world" title="User talk:It is a wonderful world">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121181900-Headbomb-20241121181400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:19, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121181900-Headbomb-20241121181400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121181900-Headbomb-20241121181400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jonesey95-20241121210300-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121181900"></span>TemplateData, inexplicably, is structured programming code that is part of the unprotected documentation. In this case, <a href="/wiki/User:It_is_a_wonderful_world" title="User:It is a wonderful world">It is a wonderful world</a>, that means that you can edit the TemplateData section yourself. Happy editing, and be careful! – <a href="/wiki/User:Jonesey95" title="User:Jonesey95">Jonesey95</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jonesey95" title="User talk:Jonesey95">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Jonesey95-20241121210300-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121181900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jonesey95-20241121210300-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121181900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jonesey95-20241121210300-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121181900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121210900-Jonesey95-20241121210300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Jonesey95" title="User:Jonesey95">Jonesey95</a> Thanks for clarifying! I thought I better exercise caution thanks to how much this template is used. <a href="/wiki/User:It_is_a_wonderful_world" title="User:It is a wonderful world">It is a wonderful world</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:It_is_a_wonderful_world" title="User talk:It is a wonderful world">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121210900-Jonesey95-20241121210300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121210900-Jonesey95-20241121210300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-It_is_a_wonderful_world-20241121210900-Jonesey95-20241121210300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls" data-mw-thread-id="h-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls-20241122164100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls-20241122164100"></span>Query regarding geo-fenced reference urls<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls-20241122164100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Query regarding geo-fenced reference urls"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PresN-20241122164100-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls"></span>Bringing here from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_list_candidates#Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls" title="Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates">Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates#Query regarding geo-fenced reference urls</a>: <a href="/wiki/User:MPGuy2824" title="User:MPGuy2824">User:MPGuy2824</a> has a citation to a site that geofences the website to be only be accessible within India (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://old.eci.gov.in/files/file/3614-punjab-general-legislative-election-2017/">example url</a>). How should this be delimited? "|url-access=limited" seems likely, but the doc wording for that is "free access is subject to limited trial and a subscription is normally required", which isn't the same thing. Another editor has suggested just calling it "|url-status=dead" to force the archive link to be the main, but that's also not true. Is there an existing standard for this situation? --<b><a href="/wiki/User:PresN" title="User:PresN"><span style="color:green">Pres</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PresN" title="User talk:PresN"><span style="color:blue">N</span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-PresN-20241122164100-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PresN-20241122164100-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PresN-20241122164100-Query_regarding_geo-fenced_reference_urls"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241122171300-PresN-20241122164100"></span>Are you sure that you have supplied the correct information here? So far as I can tell, <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://old.eci.gov.in/files/file/3614-punjab-general-legislative-election-2017/">https://old.eci.gov.in/files/file/3614-punjab-general-legislative-election-2017/</a> has never been in <a href="/wiki/Election_Commission_of_India" title="Election Commission of India">Election Commission of India</a>, the article mentioned at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:FLC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:FLC">WT:FLC</a>.</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>For me, somewhere in the wastelands of North America, that url is dead. Were I to encounter it in the wild, I would mark it with <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Dead_link" title="Template:Dead link">dead link</a>}}</code>. Archive.org does not have a snapshot of that url; I didn't bother looking in other archives. If there is no archived snapshot, <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|url-status=dead</code> is not an appropriate 'solution'.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241122171300-PresN-20241122164100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:13, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241122171300-PresN-20241122164100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241122171300-PresN-20241122164100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PresN-20241122224400-Trappist_the_monk-20241122171300"></span>The list in question is <a href="/wiki/List_of_constituencies_of_the_Punjab_Legislative_Assembly" title="List of constituencies of the Punjab Legislative Assembly">List of constituencies of the Punjab Legislative Assembly</a>; it has, for example, in ref 7 a link to <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://old.eci.gov.in/files/file/3968-dpaco-1951/">[1]</a>, which never resolves for me in America, with an archive at <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210923105107/https://eci.gov.in/files/file/3968-dpaco-1951/">[2]</a>, which does. --<b><a href="/wiki/User:PresN" title="User:PresN"><span style="color:green">Pres</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PresN" title="User talk:PresN"><span style="color:blue">N</span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-PresN-20241122224400-Trappist_the_monk-20241122171300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:44, 22 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PresN-20241122224400-Trappist_the_monk-20241122171300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PresN-20241122224400-Trappist_the_monk-20241122171300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123003900-PresN-20241122224400"></span>I looked at the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210923105107/https://eci.gov.in/files/file/3968-dpaco-1951/">archived snapshot</a>. It looks more-or-less like a link farm with apparently related links (Archive Delimitation Orders) linking back to itself (or another archive snapshot of the same page). Not at all clear what that source is supposed to be supporting.</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>Since the article has been promoted to FA (not something that I would have done given the piss-poor quality of this one link and assuming that the other links to the same domain would be similar), does this topic still require some sort of answer?</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123003900-PresN-20241122224400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:39, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123003900-PresN-20241122224400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123003900-PresN-20241122224400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PresN-20241123212500-Trappist_the_monk-20241123003900"></span>No, sounds like the answer to "how should we handle geo-fenced urls" is "the Election Commission of India, when viewed through the Internet Archive, has an ugly website", so I guess we're good here. --<b><a href="/wiki/User:PresN" title="User:PresN"><span style="color:green">Pres</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PresN" title="User talk:PresN"><span style="color:blue">N</span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-PresN-20241123212500-Trappist_the_monk-20241123003900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PresN-20241123212500-Trappist_the_monk-20241123003900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PresN-20241123212500-Trappist_the_monk-20241123003900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="HugeDomains" data-mw-thread-id="h-HugeDomains-20241123170700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-HugeDomains-20241123170700"></span>HugeDomains<span data-mw-comment-end="h-HugeDomains-20241123170700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: HugeDomains"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1254741850/1256841759" title="Special:Diff/1254741850/1256841759"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GreenC-20241123170700-HugeDomains"></span>Special:Diff/1254741850/1256841759</a> recently <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Link_rot/URL_change_requests#HugeDomains" title="Wikipedia:Link rot/URL change requests">brought to attention</a>. Do we have title traps for tracking cats? -- <a href="/wiki/User:GreenC" title="User:GreenC"><span style="color: #006A4E;"><b>Green</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GreenC" title="User talk:GreenC"><span style="color: #093;"><b>C</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-GreenC-20241123170700-HugeDomains" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GreenC-20241123170700-HugeDomains"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GreenC-20241123170700-HugeDomains"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123225300-GreenC-20241123170700"></span>We do, but in a different form: <code>hugedomains.com</code> which seems to have been the form used when we first created the generic title list; see <a href="/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_70#Wayback_Machine" title="Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 70">Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 70 § Wayback Machine</a>. Sandbox tweaked:</dd></dl> <div style="margin-left:3.2em"> <table class="wikitable"> <caption>Cite book comparison </caption> <tbody><tr> <th scope="row">Wikitext </th> <td><code style="color:inherit; background:inherit; border:none;">{{cite book<wbr/>|title=Some.domain.name for sale - HugeDomains}}</code> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row">Live </th> <td><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation book cs1"><i>Some.domain.name for sale - HugeDomains</i>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Some.domain.name+for+sale+-+HugeDomains&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row">Sandbox </th> <td class="cs1-sandbox"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation book cs1"><i>Some.domain.name for sale - HugeDomains</i>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Some.domain.name+for+sale+-+HugeDomains&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">cite book</a>}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Cite uses generic title (<a href="/wiki/Help:CS1_errors#generic_title" title="Help:CS1 errors">help</a>)</span> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd>And still finds the original:</dd></dl> <div style="margin-left:3.2em"> <table class="wikitable"> <caption>Cite book comparison </caption> <tbody><tr> <th scope="row">Wikitext </th> <td><code style="color:inherit; background:inherit; border:none;">{{cite book<wbr/>|title=Some.domain.name for sale - HugeDomains.com}}</code> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row">Live </th> <td><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite class="citation book cs1"><i>Some.domain.name for sale - HugeDomains.com</i>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Some.domain.name+for+sale+-+HugeDomains.com&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">cite book</a>}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Cite uses generic title (<a href="/wiki/Help:CS1_errors#generic_title" title="Help:CS1 errors">help</a>)</span> </td></tr> <tr> <th scope="row">Sandbox </th> <td class="cs1-sandbox"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238446127"><cite class="citation book cs1"><i>Some.domain.name for sale - HugeDomains.com</i>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Some.domain.name+for+sale+-+HugeDomains.com&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AHelp+talk%3ACitation+Style+1" class="Z3988"></span> <span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment"><code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">cite book</a>}}</code>: </span><span class="cs1-visible-error citation-comment">Cite uses generic title (<a href="/wiki/Help:CS1_errors#generic_title" title="Help:CS1 errors">help</a>)</span> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123225300-GreenC-20241123170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:53, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123225300-GreenC-20241123170700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241123225300-GreenC-20241123170700"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Usage_of_the_quote_parameter" data-mw-thread-id="h-Usage_of_the_quote_parameter-20241124033600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Usage_of_the_quote_parameter-20241124033600"></span>Usage of the quote parameter<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Usage_of_the_quote_parameter-20241124033600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Usage of the quote parameter"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kiwipete-20241124033600-Usage_of_the_quote_parameter"></span>I'm adding/updating <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_web" title="Template:Cite web">cite web</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> entries on articles of towns and cities in Poland. The citation is to an official Polish website. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, the website is almost entirely in Polish. I wish to add instructions to the citation that show how to perform the relevant search. At the moment, it seems as if the only way I can do this is to use the "quote" parameter. See, for example, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bachury&diff=prev&oldid=1259238705">this edit</a>. I realise that this is not the intended use of this parameter, but it seems the best fit for what I'm trying to achieve. Is there another more appropriate way of doing what I'm trying here? Does there need to be a new parameter, for example? Regards, <a href="/wiki/User:Kiwipete" title="User:Kiwipete">Kiwipete</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kiwipete" title="User talk:Kiwipete">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Kiwipete-20241124033600-Usage_of_the_quote_parameter" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:36, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kiwipete-20241124033600-Usage_of_the_quote_parameter"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kiwipete-20241124033600-Usage_of_the_quote_parameter"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241124034900-Kiwipete-20241124033600"></span>Don't abuse cs1|2 template parameters. Put that extra stuff inside the <code class="nowrap" style=""><ref>...</ref></code> tags after the template's closing <code>}}</code>.</dd> <dd>—<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Trappist_the_monk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Trappist the monk (page does not exist)">Trappist the monk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trappist_the_monk" title="User talk:Trappist the monk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#c-Trappist_the_monk-20241124034900-Kiwipete-20241124033600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:49, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241124034900-Kiwipete-20241124033600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trappist_the_monk-20241124034900-Kiwipete-20241124033600"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&oldid=1259393671">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help_talk:Citation_Style_1&oldid=1259393671</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-Class_Help_articles" title="Category:NA-Class Help articles">NA-Class Help articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_Help_articles" title="Category:High-importance Help articles">High-importance Help articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_Help_Project_pages" title="Category:Wikipedia Help Project pages">Wikipedia Help Project pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-Class_Academic_Journal_articles" title="Category:NA-Class Academic Journal articles">NA-Class Academic Journal articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Academic_Journal_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Academic Journal articles">WikiProject Academic Journal articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-Class_magazine_articles" title="Category:NA-Class magazine articles">NA-Class magazine articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_magazine_articles" title="Category:NA-importance magazine articles">NA-importance magazine articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Magazines_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Magazines articles">WikiProject Magazines articles</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 24 November 2024, at 22:29<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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