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class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sources"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Sources</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Sources-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Royal Marines: appointment or rank?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Redundancy" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Redundancy"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Redundancy</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Redundancy-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lance_Jack" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lance_Jack"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Lance Jack</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Lance_Jack-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008</span> </div> </a> <span 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innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/25px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/38px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Military_culture,_traditions,_and_heraldry_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Military culture, traditions, and heraldry task force">Culture</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Australia,_New_Zealand_and_South_Pacific_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Australia, New Zealand and South Pacific military history task force">South Pacific</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/British_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/British military history task force">British</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Canadian_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Canadian military history task force">Canadian</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/European_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/European military history task force">European</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/French_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/French military history task force">French</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/North_American_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/North American military history task force">North America</a></span> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/75px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/100px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history WikiProject</a></b>. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Open_tasks" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Open tasks">list of open tasks</a>. To use this banner, please see the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Template:WikiProject Military history">full instructions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Military history</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">military history</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess-b" style="padding-bottom:5px"><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment/B-Class_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment/B-Class criteria"><img alt="B checklist" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/20px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/30px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/40px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="plainlinks mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th class="wpb-collapsed-head mbox-text" colspan="3" style="font-weight:normal">This article has been checked against the following <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Quality_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment">criteria</a></b> for B-class status:</th><td style="min-width:3em"></td></tr><tr><td style="font-size:90%"><ol><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/16px-Red_x.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/24px-Red_x.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/32px-Red_x.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Referencing and citation: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion not met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Coverage and accuracy: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Structure: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Grammar and style: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Supporting materials: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li></ol></td><td style="font-size:88%"></td><td class="empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Associated task forces:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:50px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Sunset_Taps.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Sunset_Taps.jpg/43px-Sunset_Taps.jpg" decoding="async" width="43" height="29" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Sunset_Taps.jpg/65px-Sunset_Taps.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Sunset_Taps.jpg/86px-Sunset_Taps.jpg 2x" data-file-width="3000" data-file-height="2000"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Military_culture,_traditions,_and_heraldry_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Military culture, traditions, and heraldry task force">Military culture, traditions, and heraldry task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:ANZSP_task_force_icon.PNG" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/ANZSP_task_force_icon.PNG/27px-ANZSP_task_force_icon.PNG" decoding="async" width="27" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/ANZSP_task_force_icon.PNG/41px-ANZSP_task_force_icon.PNG 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/ANZSP_task_force_icon.PNG/55px-ANZSP_task_force_icon.PNG 2x" data-file-width="343" data-file-height="376"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Australia,_New_Zealand_and_South_Pacific_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Australia, New Zealand and South Pacific military history task force">Australia, New Zealand and South Pacific military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_(since_1837).svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg/26px-Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg.png" decoding="async" width="26" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg/39px-Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg/51px-Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="410" data-file-height="478"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/British_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/British military history task force">British military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:PB_Canada-leaf.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/PB_Canada-leaf.png/27px-PB_Canada-leaf.png" decoding="async" width="27" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/PB_Canada-leaf.png/41px-PB_Canada-leaf.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c7/PB_Canada-leaf.png/54px-PB_Canada-leaf.png 2x" data-file-width="731" data-file-height="811"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Canadian_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Canadian military history task force">Canadian military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Europe_satellite_globe.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Europe_satellite_globe.jpg/34px-Europe_satellite_globe.jpg" decoding="async" width="34" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Europe_satellite_globe.jpg/51px-Europe_satellite_globe.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Europe_satellite_globe.jpg/68px-Europe_satellite_globe.jpg 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="704"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/European_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/European military history task force">European military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:France_Ancient.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/France_Ancient.svg/25px-France_Ancient.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/France_Ancient.svg/37px-France_Ancient.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/France_Ancient.svg/50px-France_Ancient.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="360" data-file-height="432"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/French_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/French military history task force">French military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/28px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg" decoding="async" width="28" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/42px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/56px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1624" data-file-height="1748"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/North_American_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/North American military history task force">North American military history task force</a></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Middle_Ages_reference" data-mw-thread-id="h-Middle_Ages_reference-2005-07-28T21:49:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Middle_Ages_reference-2005-07-28T21:49:00.000Z"></span>Middle Ages reference<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Middle_Ages_reference-2005-07-28T21:49:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Middle Ages reference"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Husnock-2005-07-28T21:49:00.000Z-Middle_Ages_reference"></span>Ive restored the reference to the Middle Ages rank origin. I have read this in numerous military history textbooks. Note, the article does not say this is 100 percent confirmed, but rather it is a <i>possible</i> origin of the rank. The other origin with the Italian rank could be just as correct. -<a href="/wiki/User:Husnock" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Husnock">Husnock</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Husnock-2005-07-28T21:49:00.000Z-Middle_Ages_reference" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:49, 28 July 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Husnock-2005-07-28T21:49:00.000Z-Middle_Ages_reference"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Husnock-2005-07-28T21:49:00.000Z-Middle_Ages_reference"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sources" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sources-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sources-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z"></span>Sources<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sources-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Sources"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Franey-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z-Sources"></span>From the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.bartleby.com/61/28/L0032800.html">American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language</a>:</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>lance corporal</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>NOUN: <b>1.</b> <i>abbr.</i> <b>LCpl</b> A noncommissioned rank in the U.S. Marine Corps that is above private first class and below corporal. <b>2.</b> One who holds this rank.</dd> <dd>ETYMOLOGY: From <i>lancepesade</i>, from obsolete French <i>lancepessade</i>, from Italian <i>lancia spezzata</i>, superior soldier : <i>lancia</i>, lance (from Latin <i>lancea</i>; see lance) + <i>spezzata</i>, feminine past participle of <i>spezzare</i>, to break to pieces ( Latin <i>dis-</i>, apart; see dis– + <i>pezza</i>, piece, from Medieval Latin <i>pecia</i>, piece, from Vulgar Latin *<i>pettia</i>).</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>From the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=lance%20corporal">Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary</a>:</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Main Entry: <b>lance corporal</b></dd> <dd>Function: <i>noun</i></dd> <dd>Etymology: <i>lance</i> (as in obsolete <i>lancepesade</i> lance corporal, from Middle French <i>lancepessade</i>): an enlisted man in the marine corps ranking above a private first class and below a corporal</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>From the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lance">Online Etymology Dictionary</a>:</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><b>lance</b></dd> <dd>c.1290, from O.Fr. <i>lance</i>, from L. <i>lancea</i> "light spear" (It. <i>lancia</i>, Sp. <i>lanza</i>, Ger. <i>Lanze</i>), possibly of Celt-Iberian origin. The verb meaning "to pierce with a lance" is from c.1300; the surgical sense (properly with ref. to a '<b>lancet'</b>) is from 1474. <i>Lance corporal</i> (1786) is from obsolete <i>lancepesade</i> "officer of lowest rank" (1578), from O.It. <i>lancia spezzata</i> "old soldier," lit. "broken lance."</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>From <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=lancepesade">Dictionary.com</a>:</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><b>lancepesade</b></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>\Lance`pe*sade"\, n. [F. lancepessade, lanspessade, anspessade, It. lancia spezzata a broken lance or demilance, a demilance roan, a light horseman, bodyguard.] An assistant to a corporal; a private performing the duties of a corporal; -- called also lance corporal.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Source: <i>Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.</i></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>From the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861624841/lance_corporal.html">MSN Encarta dictionary</a>:</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>lance corporal</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><b>lance cor·po·ral</b> (<i>plural</i> lance cor·po·rals)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>noun</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><b>1. Marine rank:</b> a noncommissioned officer in the U.S. Marine Corps of a rank above private first class</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><b>2. rank of noncommissioned officer:</b> a British Army or British Royal Marines noncommissioned officer of a rank above private</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>[< obsolete <i>lancepesade</i> "officer of the lowest rank," via French < Old Italian <i>lancia spezzata</i> "broken lance"]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>From the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.mca-marines.org/Leatherneck/faq.htm#LCpl">FAQ</a> of <i>Leatherneck (Magazine of the Marines)</i> :</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><b>I enlisted in 1940. What is a lance corporal? </b></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>There were no lance corporals in the Marine Corps when you served. The rank, which falls between private first class and corporal, has been around since the 1830s when the Corps also had lance-sergeants. It went out of use sometime after 1930 and was reinstituted in 1958. <i>Reference: "Handbook for Marine NCOs" by Col Robert D. Heinl, USMC (Ret)</i></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>According to the 1979 edition of the handbook, the term "lance corporal" results from a marriage of the French word <i>lancepesade</i> and corporal. Lancepesade means "broken lance." Therefore, the term lance corporal can be translated as "an old soldier who has broken many a lance in combat."</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>From the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://marinecorpsbrotherhood.usmchq.com/custom2.html">USMC Customs and Traditions page</a> of the Marine Corps Brotherhood's site:</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Lance Corporal results from a marriage of the French word Lancepesade (literally meaning "broken Lance" and hence an old soldier who has broken many a lance in combat) to "Corporal." At first, the rank was simply lancepesade, but soon became Lancepesade-Corporal, from which the present title comes, being first recorded in 1611. The Marine Corps has had Lance Corporals (and, for a time, Lance-Sergeants, too) since the 1830s, although the rank went out of use between 1930 and 1958, when it was re-established.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>The <a href="/wiki/OED" class="mw-redirect" title="OED">OED</a> gives a similar etymology, but I don't have a copy to hand.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Searching on Google for <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22corporal+of+lance%22&meta=">"corporal of lance"</a> or <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22corporals+of+lance%22&meta=">"corporals of lance"</a> turns up only mirrors of this article, plus one page in Croatian that I can't translate.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>What's your source for this derivation? — <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Franey&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Franey (page does not exist)">Franey</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Franey-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z-Sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:48, 29 July 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Franey-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z-Sources"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Franey-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z-Sources"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Husnock-2005-07-29T12:58:00.000Z-Franey-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z"></span>My primary source is a textbook called "Introduction to Naval Science" which is used in US Naval ROTC. In the "origins of rank" section, it talks about the Middle Ages reference. There was also a rather large segment about this rank on the show <a href="/wiki/Mail_Call" class="mw-disambig" title="Mail Call">Mail Call</a>, where the MA origins was talked about and the <a href="/wiki/Armed_Forces_Network" class="mw-redirect" title="Armed Forces Network">Armed Forces Network</a> did a history show in 1999 where they spoke of it as well. There were also at least two other U.S. Army Institute of History Books that talked about this. I think we're getting confused on the issue, in that noone is saying that the above info, posted by Franey is untrue. It is simply possible that <i>both</i> origins have some merit. I see nothing wrong with rewriting the intro to leave the Middle Ages reference in but state clearly it is the more ambigious of the two origins, if that has not been done already. -<a href="/wiki/User:Husnock" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Husnock">Husnock</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Husnock-2005-07-29T12:58:00.000Z-Franey-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:58, 29 July 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Husnock-2005-07-29T12:58:00.000Z-Franey-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Husnock-2005-07-29T12:58:00.000Z-Franey-2005-07-29T10:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Franey-2005-08-01T12:00:00.000Z-Husnock-2005-07-29T12:58:00.000Z"></span>Can you quote the relevant part from <i>Introduction to Naval Science</i>? I'm not being awkward, I'm genuinely curious, as I can't find another reference to corporals of lance anywhere (apart from that Croatian page). I also wonder why <i>corporal of lance</i> would become <i>lance corporal</i> when <i>corporal of horse</i> didn't become <i>horse corporal</i> (<a href="/wiki/Corporal_of_Horse" class="mw-redirect" title="Corporal of Horse">Corporal of Horse</a>, as I'm sure you're aware, is still a rank in the <a href="/wiki/Household_Cavalry" title="Household Cavalry">Household Cavalry</a> regiments of the <a href="/wiki/British_Army" title="British Army">British Army</a>.) — <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Franey&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Franey (page does not exist)">Franey</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Franey-2005-08-01T12:00:00.000Z-Husnock-2005-07-29T12:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:00, 1 August 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Franey-2005-08-01T12:00:00.000Z-Husnock-2005-07-29T12:58:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Franey-2005-08-01T12:00:00.000Z-Husnock-2005-07-29T12:58:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-150.227.15.253-2012-01-11T13:31:00.000Z-Sources"></span>Sweden: according to the Swedish Wikipedia the rank was reinstated in 2008 but there is a note for missing reference. According to other sources the new rank system started 2009-01-01. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/150.227.15.253" title="Special:Contributions/150.227.15.253">150.227.15.253</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:150.227.15.253" title="User talk:150.227.15.253">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-150.227.15.253-2012-01-11T13:31:00.000Z-Sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:31, 11 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-150.227.15.253-2012-01-11T13:31:00.000Z-Sources"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-150.227.15.253-2012-01-11T13:31:00.000Z-Sources"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-FiggazWithAttitude-2019-07-25T15:00:00.000Z-Sources"></span>Despite what the sources say, LCpl is NOT a noncommissioned officer (NCO) in the USMC. There are four "levels" - commissioned officers (the brass that has shiny stuff on their collars), Warrant Officers (still have the shiny stuff but were former enlisted), Staff NCOs (lifers with the rank SSgt & above), NCOs (Cpls and Sgts), and non-rates (or LCpls and below). Hope that this clears this up...I could be wrong, but that's how it was circa 2004 when I retired after 22 years. I know that this doesn't count as encyclopedic content, but someone should be able to verify it in some official USMC document. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:FiggazWithAttitude&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:FiggazWithAttitude (page does not exist)">FiggazWithAttitude</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:FiggazWithAttitude" title="User talk:FiggazWithAttitude">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-FiggazWithAttitude-2019-07-25T15:00:00.000Z-Sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:00, 25 July 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-FiggazWithAttitude-2019-07-25T15:00:00.000Z-Sources"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-FiggazWithAttitude-2019-07-25T15:00:00.000Z-Sources"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blaene-2021-08-10T10:05:00.000Z-Sources"></span>I've added some earlier mentions of the rank in the British Army from 18thC military essays, that predate the newspaper references by a few decades. </p><p>I've also added a citation needed flag to the sentance "The designation "chosen man", used during the Napoleonic Wars, was possibly a precursor to the rank." as there is nothing in the article to corroborate this claim. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Blaene&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Blaene (page does not exist)">Blaene</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blaene" title="User talk:Blaene">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Blaene-2021-08-10T10:05:00.000Z-Sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:05, 10 August 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blaene-2021-08-10T10:05:00.000Z-Sources"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Blaene-2021-08-10T10:05:00.000Z-Sources"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z"><span id="Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z"></span>Royal Marines: appointment or rank?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Royal Marines: appointment or rank?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Franey-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?"></span>Is Lance Corporal still an appointment rather than a substantive rank in the <a href="/wiki/Royal_Marines" title="Royal Marines">Royal Marines</a>? Two pages which suggest this: </p> <ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/tsp9/tsp9tab3.html">UK Regular Forces: Strength of Other Ranks by Rank and Service</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/tsp9/tsp9tab4.html">NATO Rank Codes and UK Service Designations</a></li></ul> <p>The former states that 'Neither the Naval Service nor the Royal Air Force has any personnel at OR-3'. OR-3 is the NATO rank code for Lance Corporal, and the <a href="/wiki/Naval_Service" class="mw-disambig" title="Naval Service">Naval Service</a> includes the Royal Marines. </p><p>The latter has no RM rank corresponding to the Army's Lance Corporal. </p><p>Anyone know for sure? — <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Franey&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Franey (page does not exist)">Franey</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Franey-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:32, 3 August 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Franey-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Franey-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z-Royal_Marines:_appointment_or_rank?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fox1-2005-08-03T15:00:00.000Z-Franey-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z"></span>Lance Corporal is, in fact, an OR-3 rank. While the Naval Service itself doesn't have one, the RMs use a completely separate rank structure, similar to the US Navy and Marine Corps. You should be able to find a more complete list of NATO rank codes that includes individual listings for RM ranks.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Fox1" title="User:Fox1">Fox1</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Fox1-2005-08-03T15:00:00.000Z-Franey-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:00, 3 August 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fox1-2005-08-03T15:00:00.000Z-Franey-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fox1-2005-08-03T15:00:00.000Z-Franey-2005-08-03T10:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Necrothesp-2005-08-03T15:37:00.000Z-Fox1-2005-08-03T15:00:00.000Z"></span>We know that, but actually check the links that Franey gives. You will notice that in the first link the listing is <a href="/wiki/Naval_Service" class="mw-disambig" title="Naval Service">Naval Service</a> and not Royal Navy - this includes the Royal Marines (and it says the Naval Service has no OR-3 ranks). In the second link, the Royal Marines ranks are actually listed separately from both the RN and the Army with no OR-3 rank listed. These are both official MoD sites. So his question still stands. It's one that's been puzzling me too. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Necrothesp" title="User:Necrothesp">Necrothesp</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Necrothesp-2005-08-03T15:37:00.000Z-Fox1-2005-08-03T15:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 3 August 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Necrothesp-2005-08-03T15:37:00.000Z-Fox1-2005-08-03T15:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Necrothesp-2005-08-03T15:37:00.000Z-Fox1-2005-08-03T15:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Panzer71-2011-03-01T21:02:00.000Z-Necrothesp-2005-08-03T15:37:00.000Z"></span>This link clearly states that Lance Corporal is a promotional rank within the Royal Marines. *<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/royalmarines/careers/officers-and-other-ranks/index.htm">Officers & Other Ranks of the Royal Marines</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Panzer71" title="User:Panzer71">Panzer71</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Panzer71" title="User talk:Panzer71">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Panzer71-2011-03-01T21:02:00.000Z-Necrothesp-2005-08-03T15:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:02, 1 March 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Panzer71-2011-03-01T21:02:00.000Z-Necrothesp-2005-08-03T15:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Panzer71-2011-03-01T21:02:00.000Z-Necrothesp-2005-08-03T15:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Redundancy" data-mw-thread-id="h-Redundancy-2007-04-25T17:37:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Redundancy-2007-04-25T17:37:00.000Z"></span>Redundancy<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Redundancy-2007-04-25T17:37:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Redundancy"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Maxrandom777-2007-04-25T17:37:00.000Z-Redundancy"></span>Most of the opening paragraph refers specifically to UK usage. Most of that info appears under the UK heading also. Remove it from the first paragraph? –<a href="/wiki/User:Maxrandom777" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Maxrandom777">Maxrandom777</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Maxrandom777-2007-04-25T17:37:00.000Z-Redundancy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:37, 25 April 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Maxrandom777-2007-04-25T17:37:00.000Z-Redundancy"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Maxrandom777-2007-04-25T17:37:00.000Z-Redundancy"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lance_Jack" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lance_Jack-2008-01-01T01:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lance_Jack-2008-01-01T01:30:00.000Z"></span>Lance Jack<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lance_Jack-2008-01-01T01:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Lance Jack"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ashley_Pomeroy-2008-01-01T01:30:00.000Z-Lance_Jack"></span>The entries for Australia and the United Kingdom both state that a common nickname is "Lance Jack". That's not in dispute, e.g. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.army.mod.uk/qrl/recruiting/career/lance_corporal.htm">this page</a> on the British MOD's website has it right at the top. But it would probably be best to delete the duplicates, and move the information into the introduction, and say something along the lines of "in Commonwealth nations, and others which have had links with British military tradition, a common nickname for Lance Corporal is "Lance Jack"". The problem is that (a) which nations use Lance Jack? and (b) where does it come from? I assume Jack is generic, as in <a href="/wiki/Jack_Tar" title="Jack Tar">Jack Tar</a>. It seems to also be used in Canada, as per <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.canadiansoldiers.com/mediawiki-1.5.5/index.php?title=Lance_Corporal">this website</a>, albeit that it is also a Wiki. -<a href="/wiki/User:Ashley_Pomeroy" title="User:Ashley Pomeroy">Ashley Pomeroy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ashley_Pomeroy" title="User talk:Ashley Pomeroy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Ashley_Pomeroy-2008-01-01T01:30:00.000Z-Lance_Jack" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:30, 1 January 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ashley_Pomeroy-2008-01-01T01:30:00.000Z-Lance_Jack"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ashley_Pomeroy-2008-01-01T01:30:00.000Z-Lance_Jack"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008" data-mw-thread-id="h-WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008-2008-06-13T18:29:00.000Z"><span id="WikiProject_Military_history.2FAssessment.2FTag_.26_Assess_2008"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008-2008-06-13T18:29:00.000Z"></span>WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008<span data-mw-comment-end="h-WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008-2008-06-13T18:29:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dashiellx-2008-06-13T18:29:00.000Z-WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008"></span>Article reassessed and graded as start class. --<a href="/wiki/User:Dashiellx" title="User:Dashiellx">dashiellx</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dashiellx" title="User talk:Dashiellx">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Dashiellx-2008-06-13T18:29:00.000Z-WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dashiellx-2008-06-13T18:29:00.000Z-WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dashiellx-2008-06-13T18:29:00.000Z-WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Tag_&_Assess_2008"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="In_the_late_Middle_Ages..." data-mw-thread-id="h-In_the_late_Middle_Ages...-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-In_the_late_Middle_Ages...-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z"></span>In the late Middle Ages...<span data-mw-comment-end="h-In_the_late_Middle_Ages...-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: In the late Middle Ages..."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-212.8.98.118-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z-In_the_late_Middle_Ages..."></span>...the Lance was the smallest fighting unit, for instance a knight, a sergeant (man-at-arms) and a page, and perhaps with some mounted archers, crossbowmen and harquebushiers. It was a tiny group of men under a knight. In Italy the leader of a 'lancia' was called 'capo lancia' o 'caporale', that is to say, corporal. See <a href="/wiki/Condottieri" class="mw-redirect" title="Condottieri">Condottieri</a>. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/212.8.98.118" title="Special:Contributions/212.8.98.118">212.8.98.118</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:212.8.98.118" title="User talk:212.8.98.118">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-212.8.98.118-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z-In_the_late_Middle_Ages..." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:14, 16 December 2009 (UTC)</a> Subsequently edited by the same IP address on 12:29, 17 December 2009 (UTC), the next day.</span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-212.8.98.118-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z-In_the_late_Middle_Ages..."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-212.8.98.118-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z-In_the_late_Middle_Ages..."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Eliyahu_S-2012-04-18T16:56:00.000Z-212.8.98.118-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z"></span>Yes. The article <a href="/wiki/Lances_fournies" class="mw-redirect" title="Lances fournies">Lances fournies</a> discusses this usage of "<i>lance</i>" for what today is commonly called a "squad." Given the earlier hoopla some years back about citing this as a possible alternate origin for "lance corporal," I'm just going to add a See Also section with that reference. --<a href="/wiki/User:Eliyahu_S" title="User:Eliyahu S">Eliyahu S</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eliyahu_S" title="User talk:Eliyahu S">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Eliyahu_S-2012-04-18T16:56:00.000Z-212.8.98.118-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Eliyahu_S-2012-04-18T16:56:00.000Z-212.8.98.118-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Eliyahu_S-2012-04-18T16:56:00.000Z-212.8.98.118-2009-12-16T11:14:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="France" data-mw-thread-id="h-France-2010-02-04T13:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-France-2010-02-04T13:18:00.000Z"></span>France<span data-mw-comment-end="h-France-2010-02-04T13:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: France"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blastwizard-2010-02-04T13:18:00.000Z-France"></span>In France, the equivalent of a Lance Corporal is a Caporal not 1st class private, which is given to a private as distinction and not a rank and doesn't give any particular authority over another private, whereas a Caporal is team leader in a fireteam. <a href="/wiki/User:Blastwizard" title="User:Blastwizard">Blastwizard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blastwizard" title="User talk:Blastwizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Blastwizard-2010-02-04T13:18:00.000Z-France" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:18, 4 February 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blastwizard-2010-02-04T13:18:00.000Z-France"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Blastwizard-2010-02-04T13:18:00.000Z-France"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pat22-20230708112200-France"></span>In the French armies of the 16th-18th centuries the rank “anspessade“ was given to noblemen enlisted as soldiers in the infantry, coming from a poor family and not able to own a horse or to buy an officer commission, but the authorities wanted them to feel somewhat superior to other privates. French sources relate it to the French wars in Italy of the late 15th and early 16th C., originally former cavalrymen, “broken lances“ because they could not afford to fight mounted. <a href="/wiki/User:Pat22" title="User:Pat22">Pat22</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pat22" title="User talk:Pat22">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Pat22-20230708112200-France" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:22, 8 July 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pat22-20230708112200-France"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pat22-20230708112200-France"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="US_Army_Lance_Corporal_Rank" data-mw-thread-id="h-US_Army_Lance_Corporal_Rank-2015-06-21T05:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-US_Army_Lance_Corporal_Rank-2015-06-21T05:11:00.000Z"></span>US Army Lance Corporal Rank<span data-mw-comment-end="h-US_Army_Lance_Corporal_Rank-2015-06-21T05:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: US Army Lance Corporal Rank"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CobraDragoon-2015-06-21T05:11:00.000Z-US_Army_Lance_Corporal_Rank"></span>The rank of lance corporal has existed in the US Army since at least 1802, as the US Army Institute of Heraldry documents its first occurrence in an “unofficial journal” dated in that year. The first official use of the rank of lance corporal is documented in the <i>General Regulations for the Army, or, Military Institutes</i>, (Articles 18 and 20), authorized by an Act of Congress on March 2, 1821 and published by the War Department in July 1821 and again on March 1, 1825. </p><p>In the <i>General Regulations for the Army of the United States</i> (Article XVI, Paragraph 64), published on January 25, 1841, and again in the 1847 edition (Article XIII, Paragraph 121; Article XIV, Paragraph 134; and Article XLIX, Paragraph 818) the rank of lance corporal and lance sergeant are authorized. (Lance corporals were to serve as assistant squad leaders.) Again, in the <i>Revised Army Regulations of 1861</i> published on August 10, 1861 and in the 1863 edition “<i>With An Appendix Containing the Changes and Laws Affecting Army Regulations And Articles Of War To June 25, 1863</i>” in Article 40, Paragraph 971, lance corporal and lance sergeant are authorized. Lance corporal and lance sergeant ranks are authorized in <i>Regulations of the Army of the United States and General Orders In Force on the 17th of February 1881</i> in Article LV, Paragraph 812 and in <i>Regulations of the Army of the United States 1895</i> Article XXXII, Paragraph 257. </p><p>In the edition of 1901 “<i>With Appendix Separately Indexed And Showing Changes to January 1, 1901</i>”, in the Appendix, page 331, in Headquarters of the Army, General Orders, No. 42, June 30, 1897, Part II, the lance corporal is authorized to wear “…a chevron having one bar…”. In <i>Regulations for the Army of the United States 1904</i>, Article XXX, Paragraph 263, “…no company shall have more than one lance corporal at a time, unless there are noncommissioned officers absent by authority, during which absences there may be one for each absentee.” This proscription appears again in Article XXX, Paragraph 272 of <i>Regulations for the Army of the United States 1910</i>, and the editions of 1913, and 1917 “<i>Corrected to April 15, 1917 (Changes, Nos. 1 to 55)</i>”. </p><p>In 1920 the former lance corporal insignia of rank was assigned to private first class in War Department Circular No. 303, dated 3 August 1920. However, the Institute of Heraldry states that some US Army Tables of Organization and Equipment (TOEs) still authorized lance corporals until circa 1940. In February 1965 the US Army announced that effective September 1, 1965 that pay grade E-3 would be re-designated as lance corporal. The rank insignia was the pre-World War II specialist grade 6 insignia of one chevron above one arc or “rocker.” </p><p>Apparently, (admittedly based on conjecture and anecdotal evidence) due to a presumed shortage of general availability of the “new” rank insignia as well as a general dislike in the Army of the “new” rank title, partially because it may have been viewed as a “Marine Corps” rank, most commands and installations did not use the title. It appears that in practice, the Army (in some units and locales) had both E-3s and E-2s wearing a single chevron with both being called private first class (PFC) until 1968 when the “old” PFC insignia of one chevron became private E-2 (PV2) and E-3 became PFC using the “old/new” specialist grade 6/lance corporal insignia. </p><p>As the US Army was heavily involved in combat operations in Southeast Asia during the 1965-1968 time period, it is very odd that there appears to be no award citation or casualty listings (i.e., KIA or MIA) for Army lance corporals. Also, I have researched the list of Medal of Honor (MOH) recipients from 1866 through 1920 (there are so many for the Civil War that I have not completed it) and I cannot find a single Army lance corporal mentioned. (Perhaps any lance corporals, or lance sergeants, for that matter, so recognized were automatically meritoriously/ posthumously promoted to full corporal or sergeant, respectively, concurrent with the award of the MOH. </p><p>According to an email I received from the Institute of Heraldry re an inquiry on the history of the US Army lance corporal rank, I was told that the Institutes <i>History of U.S. Army Enlisted Ranks</i> page is “not all inclusive” and that “we do not have a lot” in regards to historical files on the rank. The Institute provided me with a copy of illustrations of US Army Enlisted Rank insignia from <i>THE PENTAGRAM (sic) NEWS</i>, Washington, D.C., Page 13, entitled “Army Changes Enlisted Insignia” dated February 25, 1965 that shows PFC (E-2) with one chevron, Lance Corporal (E-3) with one chevron over one arc, and two Army E-9 ranks that are different than the current ones. The current Sergeant Major insignia (for a short while known as Staff Sergeant Major) is listed as Chief Master Sergeant (same as the current USAF E-9 rank) and the current Command Sergeant Major (with a slightly different star and wreath pattern) is simply Sergeant Major. Additionally, the Institute provided a copy of an article from the <i>ARMY TIMES</i>, Page 22, entitled “All About That ‘New’ Lance Corporal Rank” dated March 3, 1965, which corroborates the existence of the US Army lance corporal rank. This article includes citations in <i>Farrow’s Military Encyclopedia</i> of 1885 (page 174) and <i>The Encyclopedia Americana</i> (Volume 8, Page 1, 1829-1953 and 1963). </p><p>If anyone has any definitive information to add to the above, please share it. The history of US Army enlisted rank insignia is extremely complex and rather confusing, and even the Army’s Institute of Heraldry admits that its information is somewhat sparse and not “all inclusive.”<a href="/wiki/User:CobraDragoon" title="User:CobraDragoon">CobraDragoon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CobraDragoon" title="User talk:CobraDragoon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-CobraDragoon-2015-06-21T05:11:00.000Z-US_Army_Lance_Corporal_Rank" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:11, 21 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CobraDragoon-2015-06-21T05:11:00.000Z-US_Army_Lance_Corporal_Rank"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CobraDragoon-2015-06-21T05:11:00.000Z-US_Army_Lance_Corporal_Rank"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-16T13:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-16T13:47:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-16T13:47:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-16T13:47:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, </p><p>I have just modified 2 external links on <a href="/wiki/Lance_corporal" title="Lance corporal">Lance corporal</a>. 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I made the following changes: </p> <ul><li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120904005518/http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0CFB5106-08D1-43EF-8EFF-D4A6F3221379/0/jsp833.pdf">https://web.archive.org/web/20120904005518/http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0CFB5106-08D1-43EF-8EFF-D4A6F3221379/0/jsp833.pdf</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0CFB5106-08D1-43EF-8EFF-D4A6F3221379/0/jsp833.pdf">http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/0CFB5106-08D1-43EF-8EFF-D4A6F3221379/0/jsp833.pdf</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150717095419/http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/wcm/Erikoissivustot/tah22010/Suomeksi/Uutiset/ylennyksia">https://web.archive.org/web/20150717095419/http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/wcm/Erikoissivustot/tah22010/Suomeksi/Uutiset/ylennyksia</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/wcm/Erikoissivustot/tah22010/Suomeksi/Uutiset/ylennyksia">http://www.puolustusvoimat.fi/wcm/Erikoissivustot/tah22010/Suomeksi/Uutiset/ylennyksia</a></li></ul> <p>When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. </p><p>This message was posted before February 2018. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_145#Disable_messages_left_by_InternetArchiveBot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145">After February 2018</a>, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by <b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b>. 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This message is updated dynamically through the template <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Source_check" title="Template:Source check">source check</a>}}</code> <small>(last update: 5 June 2024)</small>. </p> <ul><li>If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=reportfalsepositive">this tool</a>.</li> <li>If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=manageurlsingle">this tool</a>.</li></ul> <p>Cheers.—<a href="/wiki/User:InternetArchiveBot" title="User:InternetArchiveBot"><b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b></a> <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:InternetArchiveBot" title="User talk:InternetArchiveBot">Report bug</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-16T13:47:00.000Z-External_links_modified" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:47, 16 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-16T13:47:00.000Z-External_links_modified"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-16T13:47:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Marine" data-mw-thread-id="h-Marine-20240509003400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Marine-20240509003400"></span>Marine<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Marine-20240509003400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lance_corporal&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Marine"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-192.55.60.34-20240509003400-Marine"></span>the article has forgotten that the word Marine(s) is to be capitalized <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/192.55.60.34" title="Special:Contributions/192.55.60.34">192.55.60.34</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:192.55.60.34&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:192.55.60.34 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-192.55.60.34-20240509003400-Marine" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:34, 9 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-192.55.60.34-20240509003400-Marine"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-192.55.60.34-20240509003400-Marine"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Necrothesp-20240513133500-192.55.60.34-20240509003400"></span>Nope. This has been discussed ad infinitem and it has been decided that "marine" should <i>not</i> be capitalised on Wikipedia, any more than soldier, sailor or airman should be capitalised. It's merely an affectation. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Necrothesp" title="User:Necrothesp">Necrothesp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Necrothesp" title="User talk:Necrothesp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Lance_corporal#c-Necrothesp-20240513133500-192.55.60.34-20240509003400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:35, 13 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Necrothesp-20240513133500-192.55.60.34-20240509003400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Necrothesp-20240513133500-192.55.60.34-20240509003400"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" 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