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href="#Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Hanging bowl and doubtless many others</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>"The Adventures of Sajo and her Beaver People" listed at Redirects for discussion</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-sublist" 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#aaa;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px;font-size:88%;max-width:100%}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatleft{margin:.5em 1.4em .8em 0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatright{margin:.5em 0 .8em 1.4em}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.centered{overflow:hidden;position:relative;margin:.5em auto .8em auto}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatleft span,.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatright span{font-style:inherit}.mw-parser-output .quotebox>blockquote{margin:0;padding:0;border-left:0;font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-title{text-align:center;font-size:110%;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote:last-child>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote.quoted:before{font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:large;color:gray;content:" “ ";vertical-align:-45%;line-height:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote.quoted:after{font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:large;color:gray;content:" ” ";line-height:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .left-aligned{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .right-aligned{text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .center-aligned{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .quote-title,.mw-parser-output .quotebox .quotebox-quote{display:block}.mw-parser-output .quotebox cite{display:block;font-style:normal}@media screen and (max-width:640px){.mw-parser-output .quotebox{width:100%!important;margin:0 0 .8em!important;float:none!important}}</style><div class="quotebox pullquote floatright" style="width:100%; ; font-size: 100%;"> <blockquote class="quotebox-quote left-aligned" style=""> <div class="center" style="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"><b>On the spelling of "subgenre"</b> (18 November 2014)</div> <dl><dt>Points to consider</dt></dl> <ol><li>I bet that just about <i>any</i> hyphened word composed of two properly spelled words will not trigger a spell checker. E.g., Firefox is just fine with both "sewage-food" and "swill-Bolshoi", probably for grammatical reasons (using a hyphen as a <a href="/wiki/Hyphen#Compound_modifiers" title="Hyphen">compound modifier</a>).</li> <li>Spell checkers have a deliberately limited vocabulary, in order to limit false positives, and "subgenre" may not be included in your spell checker's list, leading to a false <i>negative</i>.</li></ol> <dl><dt>Research completed</dt></dl> <p>I checked before I started, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.onelook.com/">OneLook Dictionary Search</a> gives <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=sub-genre&ls=a">four results for "sub-genre"</a> (none of which lead to an actual, valid entry) versus <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.onelook.com/?w=subgenre&ls=a">twelve for "subgenre"</a>, of which: </p> <ul><li>nine lead to entries for that spelling in dictionaries;</li> <li>one is Wikipedia's redirect to the "Genre" article;</li> <li>one is the Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary's entry for "sub-" (which only gives the syllabification for the word);</li> <li>one is a 404 error for ODLIS: Online Dictionary of Library and Information Science.</li></ul> <p>Also, I checked the British side of the Oxford Dictionaries, and still came up with "subgenre" for a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/subgenre?q=sub-genre">search for "sub-genre"</a>. </p><p>Thus I believe "subgenre" is the correct spelling. </p> </blockquote> </div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice mbox-small" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span><br/><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> </td></tr><tr><td class="plainlinks" style="padding:0px 10px; text-align:left;"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42/Archive_1" title="User talk:DocWatson42/Archive 1">Archive for 18 January 2004 – 16 March 2012</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42/Archive_2" title="User talk:DocWatson42/Archive 2">17 March 2012 – November 2014</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42/Archive_3" title="User talk:DocWatson42/Archive 3">November 2014 – June 2020</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42/Archive_4" title="User talk:DocWatson42/Archive 4">July 2020 – End of 2023</a></li></ul> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="User talk:DocWatson42/" name="prefix"/><br/><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr> </tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_First_Edit_Day!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!-20240115070000"><span id="Happy_First_Edit_Day.21"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!-20240115070000"></span>Happy First Edit Day!<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!-20240115070000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Happy First Edit Day!"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Herald-20240115070000-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238436933">.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);box-sizing:border-box;color:var(--color-base,#202122)}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .ombox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .ombox-content{border:1px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .ombox-style{border:1px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .ombox-move{border:1px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .ombox-protection{border:2px solid #a2a9b1}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.ombox img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}</style><table class="box-First_Edit_Day plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation" style="border: 2px solid CornflowerBlue; background: repeating-linear-gradient(300deg, MistyRose, AntiqueWhite, Ivory, Honeydew, Azure, GhostWhite, MistyRose 50%);"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Calendar emoji" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/50px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/75px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/100px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text" style="padding: 0.75em; text-align:center;"><big><b>Happy First Edit Day!</b></big><br/>Hi DocWatson42! On behalf of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Birthday_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Birthday Committee">Birthday Committee</a>, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/DocWatson42&dir=prev&limit=1">your first edit</a> and became a Wikipedian! <a href="/wiki/User:The_Herald" class="mw-redirect" title="User:The Herald">The Herald (Benison)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Herald" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:The Herald">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-The_Herald-20240115070000-Happy_First_Edit_Day!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Herald-20240115070000-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Herald-20240115070000-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"></span></td><td class="mbox-imageright"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240115070200-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Twemoji2_1f389.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Party popper emoji" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/50px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/75px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/100px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd>Thank you. ^_^ —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240115070200-Happy_First_Edit_Day!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:02, 15 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240115070200-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240115070200-Happy_First_Edit_Day!"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Invitation_to_join_the_Twenty_Year_Society" data-mw-thread-id="h-Invitation_to_join_the_Twenty_Year_Society-20240115135000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Invitation_to_join_the_Twenty_Year_Society-20240115135000"></span>Invitation to join the Twenty Year Society<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Invitation_to_join_the_Twenty_Year_Society-20240115135000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Invitation to join the Twenty Year Society"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chris_troutman-20240115135000-Invitation_to_join_the_Twenty_Year_Society"></span><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Twenty_Year_Society" title="Wikipedia:Twenty Year Society"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Twenty_Years_Society_%282019%2C_square_edit%29.svg/125px-Twenty_Years_Society_%282019%2C_square_edit%29.svg.png" decoding="async" width="125" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Twenty_Years_Society_%282019%2C_square_edit%29.svg/188px-Twenty_Years_Society_%282019%2C_square_edit%29.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Twenty_Years_Society_%282019%2C_square_edit%29.svg/250px-Twenty_Years_Society_%282019%2C_square_edit%29.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1063" data-file-height="1063"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure><p> Dear DocWatson42, </p><p>I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Twenty_Year_Society" title="Wikipedia:Twenty Year Society">Twenty Year Society</a></b>, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for twenty years or more. </p><p>Best regards, <span class="nowrap"><span style="font-family:copperplate gothic;"><a href="/wiki/User:Chris_troutman" title="User:Chris troutman"><span style="color:#345">Chris Troutman</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chris_troutman" title="User talk:Chris troutman"><span style="color:#345">talk</span></a>)</span></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Chris_troutman-20240115135000-Invitation_to_join_the_Twenty_Year_Society" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:50, 15 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chris_troutman-20240115135000-Invitation_to_join_the_Twenty_Year_Society"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chris_troutman-20240115135000-Invitation_to_join_the_Twenty_Year_Society"></span> </p> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Chris_troutman" title="User:Chris troutman">Chris troutman</a>:</span> Thank you. ^_^ I accept.</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Short_description" data-mw-thread-id="h-Short_description-20240216070900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Short_description-20240216070900"></span>Short description<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Short_description-20240216070900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Short description"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Whizz40-20240216070900-Short_description"></span>Hi Doc Watson42, is it standard to put a person birth year in parentheses in the short description for the article? I just took this out of another article so wondering if I am undoing a standard. <a href="/wiki/User:Whizz40" title="User:Whizz40">Whizz40</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Whizz40" title="User talk:Whizz40">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Whizz40-20240216070900-Short_description" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:09, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Whizz40-20240216070900-Short_description"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Whizz40-20240216070900-Short_description"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240216080500-Whizz40-20240216070900"></span>It certainly seems accepted. I was the subject of a comment in recent years from a member of the front page's "Recent deaths" squad, that I would be along shortly to add the birth and death years to a biographical article, but I can't find that edit. Also, I find them in numerous biographical articles, and either add the death year, or sometimes just change the hyphen to an en dash.</dd> <dd>I wound up at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Short_description" title="Wikipedia talk:Short description">Wikipedia talk:Short description</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?fulltext=Search+archives&fulltext=Search&prefix=Wikipedia+talk%3AShort+description&search=dates&ns0=1&ns9=1&ns11=1&searchToken=7mjl47b48sqadl6lohifvx8pv">its talk page's archive</a>, specifically <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Short_description/Archive_8#Dates_in_short_description">this discussion</a>. Which lead me to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Short_description#Inclusion_of_dates" title="Wikipedia:Short description">Wikipedia:Short description#Inclusion of dates</a>. (I favor using years (when known) over centuries, though the guideline doesn't mention the latter.) —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240216080500-Whizz40-20240216070900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:05, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240216080500-Whizz40-20240216070900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240216080500-Whizz40-20240216070900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Whizz40-20240216095000-DocWatson42-20240216080500"></span>Thank you, that's helpful. I'll undo my change. <a href="/wiki/User:Whizz40" title="User:Whizz40">Whizz40</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Whizz40" title="User talk:Whizz40">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Whizz40-20240216095000-DocWatson42-20240216080500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:50, 16 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Whizz40-20240216095000-DocWatson42-20240216080500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Whizz40-20240216095000-DocWatson42-20240216080500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240217030400-Whizz40-20240216095000"></span>You're welcome. ^_^ —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240217030400-Whizz40-20240216095000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240217030400-Whizz40-20240216095000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240217030400-Whizz40-20240216095000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others-20240225045800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others-20240225045800"></span><a href="/wiki/Hanging_bowl" title="Hanging bowl">Hanging bowl</a> and doubtless many others<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others-20240225045800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Hanging bowl and doubtless many others"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Johnbod-20240225045800-Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others"></span>As others have said above at greater length, please STOP imposing your personal style preferences, with no policy backing, on others, as you did here. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnbod" title="User:Johnbod">Johnbod</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnbod" title="User talk:Johnbod">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Johnbod-20240225045800-Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:58, 25 February 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Johnbod-20240225045800-Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Johnbod-20240225045800-Hanging_bowl_and_doubtless_many_others"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussio-20240405163500"><span id=".22The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People.22_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussio-20240405163500"></span>"<a href="/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People" class="mw-redirect" title="The Adventures of Sajo and her Beaver People">The Adventures of Sajo and her Beaver People</a>" listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects for discussion</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussio-20240405163500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: "The Adventures of Sajo and her Beaver People" listed at Redirects for discussion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dsiedler-20240405163500-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussio"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Information.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/30px-Information.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/45px-Information.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/60px-Information.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"/></a></span> The redirect <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People&redirect=no">The Adventures of Sajo and her Beaver People</a></span> has been listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">redirects for discussion</a> to determine whether its use and function meets the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirect" title="Wikipedia:Redirect">redirect guidelines</a>. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_April_5#The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 5">Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 April 5 § The Adventures of Sajo and her Beaver People</a></b> until a consensus is reached. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Dsiedler&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Dsiedler (page does not exist)">Dsiedler</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dsiedler" title="User talk:Dsiedler">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Dsiedler-20240405163500-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussio" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:35, 5 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dsiedler-20240405163500-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussio"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dsiedler-20240405163500-"The_Adventures_of_Sajo_and_her_Beaver_People"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussio"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Removal_of_publisher_information" data-mw-thread-id="h-Removal_of_publisher_information-20240407055500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Removal_of_publisher_information-20240407055500"></span>Removal of publisher information<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Removal_of_publisher_information-20240407055500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Removal of publisher information"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reidgreg-20240407055500-Removal_of_publisher_information"></span>Why did you remove publisher information from some of the citation templates in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Poutine&curid=74167&diff=1217664134&oldid=1217657409">this edit</a>? – <a href="/wiki/User:Reidgreg" title="User:Reidgreg">Reidgreg</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reidgreg" title="User talk:Reidgreg">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Reidgreg-20240407055500-Removal_of_publisher_information" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:55, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reidgreg-20240407055500-Removal_of_publisher_information"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reidgreg-20240407055500-Removal_of_publisher_information"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240407060400-Reidgreg-20240407055500"></span>Including it for periodicals is unnecessary and non-standard. See, for instance, <i><a href="/wiki/The_Chicago_Manual_of_Style" title="The Chicago Manual of Style">The Chicago Manual of Style</a></i>, 17th Ed., sections 14.165 (pp. 828–829 of the hardcover), and 14.191 (pp. 838–839 of the hardcover). —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240407060400-Reidgreg-20240407055500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:04, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240407060400-Reidgreg-20240407055500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240407060400-Reidgreg-20240407055500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reidgreg-20240407111400-DocWatson42-20240407060400"></span>What about <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">Wikipedia: <i>Manual of Style</i></a>? Publishers can change over time and I thought any information that can help with verification was important. I've had other editors demand publisher information in reviews. Do you have anything besides external standards to base this removal of valuable information? – <a href="/wiki/User:Reidgreg" title="User:Reidgreg">Reidgreg</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reidgreg" title="User talk:Reidgreg">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Reidgreg-20240407111400-DocWatson42-20240407060400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:14, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reidgreg-20240407111400-DocWatson42-20240407060400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reidgreg-20240407111400-DocWatson42-20240407060400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240407112100-Reidgreg-20240407111400"></span>But was the publisher information they were concerned with for periodicals? None of the examples in <a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_news" title="Template:Cite news">Template:Cite news</a> include publishers, and indeed the instruction regarding the <code>publisher=</code> field is "Not normally used for periodicals." <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources#Newspaper_articles" title="Wikipedia:Citing sources">Wikipedia:Citing sources#Newspaper articles</a> also does require a publisher. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240407112100-Reidgreg-20240407111400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:21, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240407112100-Reidgreg-20240407111400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240407112100-Reidgreg-20240407111400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reidgreg-20240407131800-DocWatson42-20240407112100"></span>But what harm does it do to include the publisher? How is it an <i>improvement</i> to remove the information? <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a> is policy, and anything that makes verification easier is a good thing, correct? Even with periodicals where the publisher doesn't change, knowing the publisher can help me find the right access point off of the Wikipedia Library so that I don't have to go searching for it. I just don't see how this improves the article: how the 'normal' practice trumps ease of verification. – <a href="/wiki/User:Reidgreg" title="User:Reidgreg">Reidgreg</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reidgreg" title="User talk:Reidgreg">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Reidgreg-20240407131800-DocWatson42-20240407112100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:18, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reidgreg-20240407131800-DocWatson42-20240407112100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reidgreg-20240407131800-DocWatson42-20240407112100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240614092200-Reidgreg-20240407131800"></span>You can also use the location of the paper to find the correct one, which I find is often faster than using the publisher. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240614092200-Reidgreg-20240407131800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:22, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240614092200-Reidgreg-20240407131800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240614092200-Reidgreg-20240407131800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Anchors" data-mw-thread-id="h-Anchors-20240410020300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Anchors-20240410020300"></span>Anchors<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Anchors-20240410020300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Anchors"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mr.choppers-20240410020300-Anchors"></span>I saw your edits to <a href="/wiki/Opel_Kadett" title="Opel Kadett">Opel Kadett</a>, but that is not what the Anchor page says. It reads: </p><p>In general, if the intended target of an anchor is a section title, then <a href="#Rationale_for_substitution_in_the_header">it should be placed at the end of the section header</a> by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SUBST" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SUBST">substitution</a>: <br/><code style="color:darkgreen;">== Section header{{subst:anchor|Anchor name}} ==</code> </p><p>I have never done it that way before either and I think a better solution needs working out, but I guess it's time to start following that policy until a better method is contrived. Best, <span style="background:#ff0000;font-family:Times New Roman;"><a href="/wiki/User:Mr.choppers" title="User:Mr.choppers"><span style="color:#FDEE00;"><b> Mr.choppers | </b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mr.choppers" title="User talk:Mr.choppers"><span style="color:#FDEE00;">✎ </span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Mr.choppers-20240410020300-Anchors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:03, 10 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mr.choppers-20240410020300-Anchors"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mr.choppers-20240410020300-Anchors"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240410024200-Mr.choppers-20240410020300"></span>I'm afraid I did not understand the use of "subst:anchor" before (I just played with it in my sandbox), so I've just been moving the templates. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240410024200-Mr.choppers-20240410020300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:42, 10 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240410024200-Mr.choppers-20240410020300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240410024200-Mr.choppers-20240410020300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Anime_News_Network" data-mw-thread-id="h-Anime_News_Network-20240511151000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Anime_News_Network-20240511151000"></span>Anime News Network<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Anime_News_Network-20240511151000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Anime News Network"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Xexerss-20240511151000-Anime_News_Network"></span>Hi DocWatson42. Thanks for your edits in various anime and manga articles. I have a small question regarding <a href="/wiki/Anime_News_Network" title="Anime News Network">Anime News Network</a>. When citing this site, I personally tend to include it filling the 'website' parameter instead of the 'publisher' parameter, but I noticed that you usually change that doing the opposite. Not that I am opposed to this, I'm okay with either option, but I wanted to know if there is any reason why it should be done this way. Cheers. <a href="/wiki/User:Xexerss" title="User:Xexerss">Xexerss</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xexerss" title="User talk:Xexerss">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Xexerss-20240511151000-Anime_News_Network" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:10, 11 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Xexerss-20240511151000-Anime_News_Network"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Xexerss-20240511151000-Anime_News_Network"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240614092000-Xexerss-20240511151000"></span>I apologize for taking so long to reply.</dd> <dd>The field <code>|website=</code> renders the text in italic type, as it is an alias for <code>|work=</code>. If the title of the Wikipedia article for the entity in question is not italicized, I feel that it should not be italicized in references (see <a href="/wiki/MOS:ITALICWEBCITE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:ITALICWEBCITE">MOS:ITALICWEBCITE</a>). If there is no article, then I prefer to err on the side of roman type. The <a href="/wiki/Anime_News_Network" title="Anime News Network">ANN article</a>'s title is in roman type, so I change the names of the fields. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240614092000-Xexerss-20240511151000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:20, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240614092000-Xexerss-20240511151000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240614092000-Xexerss-20240511151000"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Your_recent_edit_to_Bath_School_disaster" data-mw-thread-id="h-Your_recent_edit_to_Bath_School_disaster-20240518151700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Your_recent_edit_to_Bath_School_disaster-20240518151700"></span>Your recent edit to <a href="/wiki/Bath_School_disaster" title="Bath School disaster">Bath School disaster</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Your_recent_edit_to_Bath_School_disaster-20240518151700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Your recent edit to Bath School disaster"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shearonink-20240518151700-Your_recent_edit_to_Bath_School_disaster"></span>In <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bath_School_disaster&diff=prev&oldid=1224395263">this edit</a> you changed: </p> <ul><li>all the "url-status=usurped" to "url-status=dead". This is really not-good. If 'dead' is left in the article, then the original "daggy" url is left accessible to unwary readers. "Usurped" leaves the old address inaccessible to anyone <b>which is <u>needed</u> in this case</b>. The daggy website address - at least in the past - <i>was</i> usurped by a bad actor/probable scammer. I will not dare to check it again. Usurped is the safe & proper parameter.</li></ul> <dl><dd><i>Please see my <b>Support re-direct</b> comment in the article's talk page <a href="/wiki/Talk:Bath_School_disaster/Archive_2" title="Talk:Bath School disaster/Archive 2">Archive 2</a> at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Bath_School_disaster/Archive_2#Proposed_merge_of_Bath_Consolidated_School_into_Bath_School_disaster" title="Talk:Bath School disaster/Archive 2">Talk:Bath School disaster/Archive 2#Proposed merge of Bath Consolidated School into Bath School disaster</a> where I state</i>: <big><b>WARNING: DO NOT CHECK OUT <i>or</i> CLICK ON <i>or</i> RESTORE THE ELLSWORTH REFS LINKS</b></big></dd></dl> <ul><li>all the previous "efn" code was changed to "Efn". Why? Usage at <b><a href="/wiki/Template:Efn" title="Template:Efn">Template:Efn</a></b> indicates "efn" as being correct.</li></ul> <p>I am intending to revert these particular changes unless you object according to policy/guidelines/etc. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Shearonink" title="User:Shearonink">Shearonink</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shearonink" title="User talk:Shearonink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Shearonink-20240518151700-Your_recent_edit_to_Bath_School_disaster" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:17, 18 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shearonink-20240518151700-Your_recent_edit_to_Bath_School_disaster"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shearonink-20240518151700-Your_recent_edit_to_Bath_School_disaster"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shearonink-20240519142000-Shearonink-20240518151700"></span>Have reverted the Daggy cites back to "usurped". Have opened a discussion at article talk but am happy to discuss my particular edit that changed 'dead' back to 'usurped' here if you wish. 14:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)</dd> <dd>And. Your 'efn' to 'Efn' changes... Would like some clarification on that if you don't mind. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Shearonink" title="User:Shearonink">Shearonink</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shearonink" title="User talk:Shearonink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Shearonink-20240519142000-Shearonink-20240518151700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:20, 19 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shearonink-20240519142000-Shearonink-20240518151700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shearonink-20240519142000-Shearonink-20240518151700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240614090500-Shearonink-20240519142000"></span>I apologize for taking so long to reply. <ul><li>I was changing the "url-status=usurped" to "url-status=dead" in the same way I change "url-status=bot:unknown" to "url-status=dead" because that is what is acceptable to eliminate the automated error codes at the top the articles [edit: in editing preview mode]—the ones that are apparently of the same sort as (I'm paraphrasing) "too many instances of xxx" and "Archived ___ as title". I agree that the URLs are usurped, but there is no indication in the articles or errors that they should remain that way. I also am less wary of the old URLs, and was until now the definition of "<a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/daggy" class="extiw" title="wikt:daggy">daggy</a>", though I think you mean it in a different sense than given in Wiktionary—perhaps one of the senses given in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=daggy">Urban Dictionary</a>? (It's not a term I've encountered before in my American English.) Since your post here, I've stopped changing them, but IMHO a more permanent solution should be found, one that eliminates the error messages.</li> <li>I change the first letter of templates from lower to upper purely for aesthetic reasons. There is no functional difference. I also regard the lower case in templates as being slightly lazy—made by editors who don't go to the trouble/bother of pressing the "Shift" key.</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>—<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240614090500-Shearonink-20240519142000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:05, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240614090500-Shearonink-20240519142000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240614090500-Shearonink-20240519142000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240614122300-DocWatson42-20240614090500"></span>It's occurred to me that the solution may be to remove the error notice for "url-status=usurped" in edit preview mode if an <code>archive-url=</code> field is also used in the same reference. That would removed the reason to change the URL status. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240614122300-DocWatson42-20240614090500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:23, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240614122300-DocWatson42-20240614090500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240614122300-DocWatson42-20240614090500"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240710074600-DocWatson42-20240614122300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Shearonink" title="User:Shearonink">Shearonink</a>:</span> Hello? —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240710074600-DocWatson42-20240614122300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:46, 10 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240710074600-DocWatson42-20240614122300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240710074600-DocWatson42-20240614122300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shearonink-20240710145400-DocWatson42-20240710074600"></span>I didn't get a notice about your June 14th reply until today.</dd> <dd>A couple of things... "Daggy" in this case refers to the actual usurped website. Mr. Daggy used to be *the* source for information about the Bath School disaster (and his info was always scrupulously sourced) but his old website <i>has</i> been usurped by a scammy/phishing entity - that's where the refs from the Ellsworth book resided. The old URL needs to not be accessible in any way for unwary readers. "Dead" isn't correct, because daggydotcom still exists and people shouldn't go there. Mr. Daggy is possibly deceased or infirm and his version of the website is never coming back. Honestly? While it's annoying for editors I really don't care about the "error notice" - that is something that editors see but not our usual consumers, casual Wikipedia readers. This article receives occasional intense interest, sadly usually when there is yet another school or mass shooting and I think the reading experience - with its possible associated verification experience - should be a safe one for our customers.</dd> <dd>The cite/Cite is a purely aesthetic choice and like you said it' your personal preference - those of us who use "cite" are not being somehow "lazy". "cite" is just what WP/the html uses when an editor utilizes the automatic cite templates available within the article editing window. It's your business but seems to me you're basically cleaning up something that doesn't need fixing. There's so much else around here that's a mess... Since it is purely a choice and not some WP rule etc that I am unaware of, I intend to bring the article into agreement with "cite". I hope that's ok with you. - <a href="/wiki/User:Shearonink" title="User:Shearonink">Shearonink</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shearonink" title="User talk:Shearonink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Shearonink-20240710145400-DocWatson42-20240710074600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 10 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shearonink-20240710145400-DocWatson42-20240710074600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shearonink-20240710145400-DocWatson42-20240710074600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="IPhone_15_Pro_vandalism" data-mw-thread-id="h-IPhone_15_Pro_vandalism-20240524160000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-IPhone_15_Pro_vandalism-20240524160000"></span>IPhone 15 Pro vandalism<span data-mw-comment-end="h-IPhone_15_Pro_vandalism-20240524160000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: IPhone 15 Pro vandalism"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Beland-20240524160000-IPhone_15_Pro_vandalism"></span>Thanks for <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1225418467" title="Special:Diff/1225418467">this vandalism cleanup</a>! I was confused by the edit summary, though...as far as I know I haven't touched the color codes in this article, and I don't know anything about iPhone colors. Technically, I doubt the seven-digit "BAB4A20" is valid; normally <a href="/wiki/HTML_colors" class="mw-redirect" title="HTML colors">HTML colors</a> are six digits. It also looks like that's associated with white titanium but "BAB4A9" (which is what this code was before the vandalism) is associated with natural titanium, so perhaps these have been swapped? I'm not sure which is supposed to be with which, but I'd guess the off-white one is natural. The vandal also changed the Bluetooth version number, not sure that's trustworthy unless it's sourced somewhere. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Beland" title="User:Beland">Beland</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Beland" title="User talk:Beland">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Beland-20240524160000-IPhone_15_Pro_vandalism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:00, 24 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Beland-20240524160000-IPhone_15_Pro_vandalism"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Beland-20240524160000-IPhone_15_Pro_vandalism"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240525030200-Beland-20240524160000"></span>You're welcome, and I'm sorry—I got confused, and mixed up your edit with <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IPhone_15_Pro&diff=prev&oldid=1223700712">this one</a>, which <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=IPhone_15_Pro&action=history">preceded yours</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240525030200-Beland-20240524160000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:02, 25 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240525030200-Beland-20240524160000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240525030200-Beland-20240524160000"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Image_you_cut_from_WP_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Image_you_cut_from_WP_article-20240614080300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Image_you_cut_from_WP_article-20240614080300"></span>Image you cut from WP article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Image_you_cut_from_WP_article-20240614080300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Image you cut from WP article"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mucketymuck-20240614080300-Image_you_cut_from_WP_article"></span>I just noticed that, a month and a half ago, you reverted the .jpg image file I labeled "Portion of 1973 ad displayed with Model Products Corporation model kit instructions," which I'd uploaded to Wikimedia Commons for placement in WP's Minivan article, where I'd set it in the Etymology section. I'd inserted that image because, on reflection, I'd thought it a useful early example of "minivan" from long before the term was a commonplace, or even generally recognized. That is, it was not mere clutter, nor do I find that it violates anything in <i>MOS:ACCIM</i> unless under a broad interpretation. So, I find your deletion of it presumptuous, all the more as it's now irrecoverable, not just on Wikimedia but, I think, to me too. (Seldom do I have the chance to review my WP Talk page every seven days.) Note that WP's Minivan article had no other early advertising images representing the term then and has none now. </p><p>Come to that, I doubt that any actual production minivan (as against a model) had ever been commercially advertised under that name by then; that is, I doubt the term was in commercial, as against enthusiast, use, at least in any context intended for the consumer. Still, if you knew of and had substituted any such labeled image (that is, of a real minivan, so called) for the one you'd taken out, then I shouldn't complain, but you didn't. </p><p>On WP every cut must be judicious. Your record of posting literally thousands of WP edits every few months, even every few weeks, leaves you suspect in that regard, for it indicates that you edit in haste on this platform and therefore must be imprudent. The bluegrass flat-picker whose name you've taken on was noted for his grace, finesse, and subtlety; one can only hope your work doesn't match his merely in being carried out blindly. </p><p>It's easy to redact information from WP articles, but it can be much harder to insert them. Just accurately composing this single edit has cost me far over an hour's time. So did everything involved in finding, preparing, and posting that minivan image, including meeting WP's demands to prove that it was a fair use of an old copyrighted text. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mucketymuck&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mucketymuck (page does not exist)">Mucketymuck</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mucketymuck" title="User talk:Mucketymuck">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Mucketymuck-20240614080300-Image_you_cut_from_WP_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:03, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mucketymuck-20240614080300-Image_you_cut_from_WP_article"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mucketymuck-20240614080300-Image_you_cut_from_WP_article"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240614083800-Mucketymuck-20240614080300"></span>I didn't remove the image—I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Minivan&diff=1221690023&oldid=1218656154">moved it to the top of the article</a>. The image <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=File:Portion_of_1973_ad_displayed_with_Model_Products_Corporation_model_kit_instructions.jpg&action=edit&redlink=1">was deleted by consensus</a> (in which I did not participate and was unaware of until now) as an "Unused non-free media file". I referred to <a href="/wiki/MOS:ACCIM" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:ACCIM">MOS:ACCIM</a> because at the I moved it the image was "hanging into" the following section.</dd> <dd>Just because I edit a lot does not make me imprudent. I am experienced, and while I do make a lot of edits, many of those edit are of sorts that I have made many times before (cleaning up <a href="/wiki/MOS:ORDER" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:ORDER">MOS:ORDER</a>, moving images, and cleaning up image placement, references, and typos). You haven't watched me edit—some of those edits are easy and quick (generally the ones I mark "minor"), while others take time, of which I spend a lot of on Wikipedia—so you can't actually know how much effort I put into them. As for my user name, it's from the <a href="/wiki/Dr._Watson" title="Dr. Watson">Sherlock Holmes character</a> (and <i>The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy</i>), not the <a href="/wiki/Doc_Watson" title="Doc Watson">musician</a> (who I was entirely unaware of until the last few years, when someone else made the same mistake you did).</dd> <dd>Given the number of times my edits have been reverted by heavy-handed editors (one in particular) who were changing one item out of several changes I had made in a single edit, I'm quite aware of how easy it is make bad alterations. I'm sorry that it took so long for you to compose your post to me, but I wish you had taken a bit more [edit: time] to research what I had actually done. :-/ —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240614083800-Mucketymuck-20240614080300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:38, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240614083800-Mucketymuck-20240614080300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240614083800-Mucketymuck-20240614080300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mucketymuck-20240614183100-DocWatson42-20240614083800"></span>Yes, I’d checked the Minivan article’s history, but it was hard for me to interpret. Do you mean you moved the image to the top of the article’s Etymology section?</dd> <dd>Besides, that image file wasn’t “unused” till deleted from that article. I’d put it to use on WP as soon as I’d uploaded it to WM Commons.</dd> <dd>Btw, I’m surprised that any WP editor, such as those you mention, would revert an entire set of edits on the basis of a single point. Obviously, they ought to revert that item alone. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mucketymuck&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mucketymuck (page does not exist)">Mucketymuck</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mucketymuck" title="User talk:Mucketymuck">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Mucketymuck-20240614183100-DocWatson42-20240614083800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mucketymuck-20240614183100-DocWatson42-20240614083800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mucketymuck-20240614183100-DocWatson42-20240614083800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240615024100-Mucketymuck-20240614183100"></span>No, I move the image to the top of the (whole) article. Click on the first link and page down to see the article as it was then.</dd> <dd>Perhaps as better categorization would have been (though I don't know if that type exists) "Used non-free media file". Per the record of the deletion (at the second linked page above) it was user Explicit who deleted the image.</dd> <dd>I agree, but it's often easier to undo and ignore the consequences for the remainder of the edit(s), rather than take the time make a smaller, possibly more detailed, edit. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240615024100-Mucketymuck-20240614183100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240615024100-Mucketymuck-20240614183100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240615024100-Mucketymuck-20240614183100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240615025400-DocWatson42-20240615024100"></span>Edit: This may help with deciphering the history pages: <a href="/wiki/Help:Menu/Tracking_changes" title="Help:Menu/Tracking changes">Help:Menu/Tracking changes</a>—<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240615025400-DocWatson42-20240615024100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240615025400-DocWatson42-20240615024100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240615025400-DocWatson42-20240615024100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mucketymuck-20240615044100-DocWatson42-20240615024100"></span>Yes, I’d forgetten that one can scroll down a “Difference between revisions” page to see an article displayed as it existed at the time.</dd> <dd>But, so far as I can discern, it was not editor Explicit but CZmarlin who removed that minivan ad image, in their second May 17 edit of the Minivan page. And I find no record that it was ever featured at the top of the page; rather, it was moved to the Predecessors section, and later deleted. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mucketymuck&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mucketymuck (page does not exist)">Mucketymuck</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mucketymuck" title="User talk:Mucketymuck">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Mucketymuck-20240615044100-DocWatson42-20240615024100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mucketymuck-20240615044100-DocWatson42-20240615024100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mucketymuck-20240615044100-DocWatson42-20240615024100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240615050100-Mucketymuck-20240615044100"></span>I'm sorry—I got confused about which image we are discussing. I moved File:2019 Chrysler Pacifica Touring L, front 7.4.19.jpg to the top of the article, and File:Portion of 1973 ad displayed with Model Products Corporation model kit instructions.jpg to a gallery in the "Predecessors" section. CZmarlin removed the latter from the article, but Explicit deleted the image itself. <a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240615050100-Mucketymuck-20240615044100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:01, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240615050100-Mucketymuck-20240615044100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240615050100-Mucketymuck-20240615044100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mucketymuck-20240616063000-DocWatson42-20240615050100"></span>That's odd. I thought the image was automatically deleted from WM Commons after a week's time as unused, since its redaction from the sole WP article where it had appeared meant it was no longer in use on any WM project. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mucketymuck&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mucketymuck (page does not exist)">Mucketymuck</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mucketymuck" title="User talk:Mucketymuck">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Mucketymuck-20240616063000-DocWatson42-20240615050100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mucketymuck-20240616063000-DocWatson42-20240615050100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mucketymuck-20240616063000-DocWatson42-20240615050100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240616063300-Mucketymuck-20240616063000"></span>I don't know if automatic deletion from Wikimedia Commons is a thing—you'd have to ask there. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240616063300-Mucketymuck-20240616063000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:33, 16 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240616063300-Mucketymuck-20240616063000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240616063300-Mucketymuck-20240616063000"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Redrose64-20240616084800-DocWatson42-20240616063300"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mucketymuck&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mucketymuck (page does not exist)">Mucketymuck</a>:</span> It isn't a thing, except for non-free files, copyright violations and similar - but they get deleted whether they're in use or not (see <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_policy" class="extiw" title="c:Commons:Deletion policy">c:Commons:Deletion policy</a>). Commons has no requirement that images actually be used, merely that they "must be realistically useful for an educational purpose", plus certain other restrictions (see <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Project_scope" class="extiw" title="c:Commons:Project scope">c:Commons:Project scope</a>). So long as images fall within that policy, they remain indefinitely. --<a href="/wiki/User:Redrose64" title="User:Redrose64"><span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64</a> 🌹 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Redrose64" title="User talk:Redrose64">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Redrose64-20240616084800-DocWatson42-20240616063300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:48, 16 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Redrose64-20240616084800-DocWatson42-20240616063300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Redrose64-20240616084800-DocWatson42-20240616063300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240616085600-Redrose64-20240616084800"></span>Thank you for the clarification. ^_^ —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240616085600-Redrose64-20240616084800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240616085600-Redrose64-20240616084800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240616085600-Redrose64-20240616084800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mucketymuck-20240619062300-DocWatson42-20240616085600"></span>Yes, thanks.</dd> <dd>Anyhow, I realize I’m belaboring the point, but that image, the earliest advertising use I’ve seen of the term “mini van” (later a single word), might interest a scholar. As I now recall, it was an ad for a real car, not a model, though it appeared in a model kit. I remembered it, looked through pics I’d taken till I found it, was glad I’d kept a copy, trimmed it down with editing tools, and jumped through the necessary hoops, attesting to its fair use, to upload it to WM Commons.</dd> <dd>I doubted I’d ever again go to that trouble just to post an image to WP, and I haven’t done so since. Life is short.</dd> <dd>And I kind of doubt it would have been deleted from the WP Minivan page had it remained nestled more or less in the Etymology section, where it had been displayed for well over a year when it was moved. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mucketymuck&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mucketymuck (page does not exist)">Mucketymuck</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mucketymuck" title="User talk:Mucketymuck">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Mucketymuck-20240619062300-DocWatson42-20240616085600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mucketymuck-20240619062300-DocWatson42-20240616085600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mucketymuck-20240619062300-DocWatson42-20240616085600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20240619063300-Mucketymuck-20240619062300"></span>Didn't you save a copy of the edited image? And I'm sympathetic, but a year isn't that long in the lifespan of an article—"<a href="/wiki/Minivan" title="Minivan">Minivan</a>" is <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Minivan&action=history&dir=prev">eighteen years old</a>, and the general expectation is that articles will be edited, some frequently. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20240619063300-Mucketymuck-20240619062300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:33, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20240619063300-Mucketymuck-20240619062300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20240619063300-Mucketymuck-20240619062300"></span></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Redrose64-20240619162800-Mucketymuck-20240619062300"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mucketymuck&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mucketymuck (page does not exist)">Mucketymuck</a>:</span> You mention "fair use"; there are two situations here. <ul><li>Images uploaded to English Wikipedia under a claim of fair use need to actually be used in an article (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NFCCP#7" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NFCCP">WP:NFCCP#7</a>) and the file description page must also have a specific non-free use rationale for each individual article that it's used in (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NFCCP#10c" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NFCCP">WP:NFCCP#10c</a>). Fair use images may be removed without warning from those articles which don't have a valid non-free use rationale; and fair use images which are not used in any articles may be deleted after seven days of non-use per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#F5" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">WP:CSD#F5</a>.</li> <li>Commons does not accept fair use images, this is explicitly set out at <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Fair_use" class="extiw" title="c:Commons:Fair use">c:Commons:Fair use</a>; they are speedy deletable under <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:CSD#F2" class="extiw" title="c:COM:CSD">c:COM:CSD#F2</a> and this is actioned immediately an admin notices, there is no grace period.</li></ul></dd> <dd>Which situation are we discussing here? --<a href="/wiki/User:Redrose64" title="User:Redrose64"><span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64</a> 🌹 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Redrose64" title="User talk:Redrose64">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Redrose64-20240619162800-Mucketymuck-20240619062300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Redrose64-20240619162800-Mucketymuck-20240619062300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Redrose64-20240619162800-Mucketymuck-20240619062300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Casco_Bay_article_reorganization" data-mw-thread-id="h-Casco_Bay_article_reorganization-20241010151300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Casco_Bay_article_reorganization-20241010151300"></span>Casco Bay article reorganization<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Casco_Bay_article_reorganization-20241010151300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Casco Bay article reorganization"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Casoulman-20241010151300-Casco_Bay_article_reorganization"></span>Hi DocWatson42, </p><p>Casoulman here -- I've been building out the history of the Casco Bay page, and saw your reorganization that elevated the history section I've been working on ahead of the geography and topography section. Wanted to check if that's standard for Wikipedia in your experience -- I had figured the geography was the more important section for today's readers as defining the bay's location etc. Let me know your thoughts, thanks! If the section is to stay below the history section, then would require some extra work to move the Wikipedia links to first references for towns etc cited in the geography and topology section ... <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Casoulman&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Casoulman (page does not exist)">Casoulman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Casoulman" title="User talk:Casoulman">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Casoulman-20241010151300-Casco_Bay_article_reorganization" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:13, 10 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Casoulman-20241010151300-Casco_Bay_article_reorganization"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Casoulman-20241010151300-Casco_Bay_article_reorganization"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20241011115800-Casoulman-20241010151300"></span>I moved it because in my experience that's standard, though I don't have reference to fall back upon, and my experience is mostly with municipalities and larger political entities (counties and states/provinces), not geographical/geological features. Whatever you decide, IMHO the Etymology section should stay first. —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20241011115800-Casoulman-20241010151300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:58, 11 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20241011115800-Casoulman-20241010151300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20241011115800-Casoulman-20241010151300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="MOS:DATE_and_recent_edits" data-mw-thread-id="h-MOS:DATE_and_recent_edits-20241110011000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-MOS:DATE_and_recent_edits-20241110011000"></span>MOS:DATE and recent edits<span data-mw-comment-end="h-MOS:DATE_and_recent_edits-20241110011000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: MOS:DATE and recent edits"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tiggerjay-20241110011000-MOS:DATE_and_recent_edits"></span>Hey Doc, I know you're a very experienced editor however I was confused by <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reid_technique&diff=1256339727&oldid=1252268718">this edit</a> where you changed the date in the reference from the American standard. My understanding was that it was generally accepted to use the date format that is consistent with the balance of the article, which in part is at least biased towards the standard of where the subject is located. Most references appear to be in the "American" standard of MMM DD, YYYY. Which makes your correction confusing. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DATE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DATE">WP:DATE</a>. Thanks <a href="/wiki/User:Tiggerjay" title="User:Tiggerjay"><span style="color:DarkOrange"><b>Tigger</b></span><b>Jay</b></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tiggerjay" title="User talk:Tiggerjay"><span style="font-size:85%;color:Purple">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Tiggerjay-20241110011000-MOS:DATE_and_recent_edits" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:10, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tiggerjay-20241110011000-MOS:DATE_and_recent_edits"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tiggerjay-20241110011000-MOS:DATE_and_recent_edits"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20241115192600-Tiggerjay-20241110011000"></span>I'm afraid I wasn't paying attention to the format templates when I made those changes, only to the "External links" section. ^_^;; —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20241115192600-Tiggerjay-20241110011000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:26, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20241115192600-Tiggerjay-20241110011000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20241115192600-Tiggerjay-20241110011000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tiggerjay-20241116003900-DocWatson42-20241115192600"></span>Figured it must have been something simple. But also wanted to reach out before I adjusted it. If only all English speaking countries would adopt the same standard. But of course its too late for that. Thanks for all that you do! <a href="/wiki/User:Tiggerjay" title="User:Tiggerjay"><span style="color:DarkOrange"><b>Tigger</b></span><b>Jay</b></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tiggerjay" title="User talk:Tiggerjay"><span style="font-size:85%;color:Purple">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-Tiggerjay-20241116003900-DocWatson42-20241115192600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tiggerjay-20241116003900-DocWatson42-20241115192600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tiggerjay-20241116003900-DocWatson42-20241115192600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DocWatson42-20241116030000-Tiggerjay-20241116003900"></span>You're welcome. ^_^ —<a href="/wiki/User:DocWatson42" title="User:DocWatson42">DocWatson42</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DocWatson42#c-DocWatson42-20241116030000-Tiggerjay-20241116003900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DocWatson42-20241116030000-Tiggerjay-20241116003900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DocWatson42-20241116030000-Tiggerjay-20241116003900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000500"></span>ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DocWatson42&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="ivmbox" style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000500-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello! 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