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href="#Template:Pros_vs._Joes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Template:Pros vs. Joes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Template:Pros_vs._Joes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Are numbers retired by the current team, or by the team they played for?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Plea_for_help" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Plea_for_help"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Plea for help</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">15 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Plea_for_help-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Flaw in how we denote "off-season and/or practice squad member only"</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Malcolm Butler (American football) Requested Move (RM)</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-High_school_name_format" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#High_school_name_format"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>High school name format</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-High_school_name_format-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Naming conventions for individual playoff games</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-NFL_biography_infobox" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#NFL_biography_infobox"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>NFL biography infobox</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">25 comments</span> <ul id="toc-NFL_biography_infobox-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Spelling_things_out_in_prose" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Spelling_things_out_in_prose"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Spelling things out in prose</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Spelling_things_out_in_prose-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Score_format_revisited" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Score_format_revisited"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Score format revisited</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Score_format_revisited-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Jonathan_Willard" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Jonathan_Willard"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Jonathan Willard</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Jonathan_Willard-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>See also: List of American Football League players</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Super Bowl sort order for categories</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-You're_invited..." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#You're_invited..."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>You're invited...</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-You're_invited...-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Nearly 3,000 player pages using wrong infobox</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">16 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Reminder: Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-NFL_roster_player_numbers" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#NFL_roster_player_numbers"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>NFL roster player numbers</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-NFL_roster_player_numbers-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Team_history_succession" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Team_history_succession"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">19</span> <span>Team history succession</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Team_history_succession-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Pronunciations" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Pronunciations"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">20</span> <span>Pronunciations</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Pronunciations-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Draft_details" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Draft_details"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">21</span> <span>Draft details</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Draft_details-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-RFC_on_sports_notability" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#RFC_on_sports_notability"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">22</span> <span>RFC on sports notability</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-RFC_on_sports_notability-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Meaning_of_anchor" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Meaning_of_anchor"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">23</span> <span>Meaning of anchor</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Meaning_of_anchor-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Birthplace_vs._hometown" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Birthplace_vs._hometown"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">24</span> <span>Birthplace vs. hometown</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">9 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Birthplace_vs._hometown-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">25</span> <span>Format tweaks to the active roster templates</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Popular_pages_report" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Popular_pages_report"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">26</span> <span>Popular pages report</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Popular_pages_report-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Automated_assessment_of_article_importance"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">27</span> <span>Automated assessment of article importance</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-References_in_Infobox" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#References_in_Infobox"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">28</span> <span>References in Infobox</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-References_in_Infobox-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">29</span> <span>Requesting comments on Talk:Johnny Unitas</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-User:Mkelley78" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#User:Mkelley78"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">30</span> <span>User:Mkelley78</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-User:Mkelley78-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">31</span> <span>Datone Jones to B class to GA class</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">32</span> <span>Creating a template for the NFL Top 100 Players</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Input" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Input"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">33</span> <span>Input</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Input-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">34</span> <span>2016 NFL Quarterback win-loss records</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">35</span> <span>AfD: The Greatest Show on Turf</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">36</span> <span>Cfd: Category:Undrafted National Football League players</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-2nd_All-Pro_team_template" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#2nd_All-Pro_team_template"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">37</span> <span>2nd All-Pro team template</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-2nd_All-Pro_team_template-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Team's_official_website_on_season_articles"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">38</span> <span>Team's official website on season articles</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Capitalization_in_staff_templates" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Capitalization_in_staff_templates"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">39</span> <span>Capitalization in staff templates</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">16 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Capitalization_in_staff_templates-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">40</span> <span>Incorrect Information on "List of Supplemental Draft Picks" article</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">41</span> <span>Proposal to add metric values to Template:NFL predraft</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">42</span> <span>Teddy Bridgewater full name</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Roberto_Aguayo" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Roberto_Aguayo"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">43</span> <span>Roberto Aguayo</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Roberto_Aguayo-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-HOF_Banners" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#HOF_Banners"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">44</span> <span>HOF Banners</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">12 comments</span> <ul id="toc-HOF_Banners-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">45</span> <span>Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign progress update</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-2017–18_NFL_playoffs" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#2017–18_NFL_playoffs"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">46</span> <span>2017–18 NFL playoffs</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-2017–18_NFL_playoffs-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Neutral_Notice" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Neutral_Notice"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">47</span> <span>Neutral Notice</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Neutral_Notice-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wikivoyage_help" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wikivoyage_help"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">48</span> <span>Wikivoyage help</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Wikivoyage_help-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">49</span> <span>Jacoby Brissett birth year</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Beware_SB_Nation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Beware_SB_Nation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">50</span> <span>Beware SB Nation</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Beware_SB_Nation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Herm_Edwards" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Herm_Edwards"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">51</span> <span>Herm Edwards</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Herm_Edwards-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">52</span> <span>Listing sack numbers as a whole number or decimal</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-1982_and_1987_strikes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#1982_and_1987_strikes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">53</span> <span>1982 and 1987 strikes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-1982_and_1987_strikes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-NFL_International_Series" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#NFL_International_Series"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">54</span> <span>NFL International Series</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-NFL_International_Series-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Current_players_without_articles" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Current_players_without_articles"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">55</span> <span>Current players without articles</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Current_players_without_articles-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_input_on_former_player" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_input_on_former_player"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">56</span> <span>Discussion input on former player</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Discussion_input_on_former_player-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Definition_of_interior_lineman" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Definition_of_interior_lineman"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">57</span> <span>Definition of interior lineman</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Definition_of_interior_lineman-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Highest_scoring_NFL_games" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Highest_scoring_NFL_games"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">58</span> <span>Highest scoring NFL games</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Highest_scoring_NFL_games-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">59</span> <span>Proposed page move of Gridiron football</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Proposed_page_move" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Proposed_page_move"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">60</span> <span>Proposed page move</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Proposed_page_move-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">61</span> <span>Cardiac Cats at AfD</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Dashes_in_number_parameter" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Dashes_in_number_parameter"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">62</span> <span>Dashes in number parameter</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">20 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Dashes_in_number_parameter-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">63</span> <span>Discussion on Talk:Cam Newton regarding "sexist remark" incident</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-All-Pro_team_infobox" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#All-Pro_team_infobox"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">64</span> <span>All-Pro team infobox</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-All-Pro_team_infobox-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">65</span> <span>Birth name in Infobox NFL biography</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">15 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Birth name in Infobox NFL biography subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">65.1</span> <span>Combining the birth date and birth place fields</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Run_and_shoot_offense" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Run_and_shoot_offense"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">66</span> <span>Run and shoot offense</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Run_and_shoot_offense-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wanting_input" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wanting_input"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">67</span> <span>Wanting input</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Wanting_input-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Largest_NFL_trades" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Largest_NFL_trades"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">68</span> <span>Largest NFL trades</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Largest_NFL_trades-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">69</span> <span>10,000 receiving yards club template</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Names" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Names"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">70</span> <span>Names</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Names-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">71</span> <span>Recruitment for 2018 WikiProject American football tasks</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Proposed_template_merging" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Proposed_template_merging"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">72</span> <span>Proposed template merging</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Proposed_template_merging-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-List_of_D-III_draft_picks" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#List_of_D-III_draft_picks"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">73</span> <span>List of D-III draft picks</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-List_of_D-III_draft_picks-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_table" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_table"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">74</span> <span>Is it possible to have the draft year field produce a column in an NFL draft table</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_table-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">75</span> <span>college infobox information for graduate transfer</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">16 comments</span> <ul id="toc-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">76</span> <span>Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">77</span> <span>Assistance requested at Template:2017 AFC standings</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Zach_Miller" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Zach_Miller"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">78</span> <span>Zach Miller</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Zach_Miller-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">79</span> <span>Questions moved from National Football League draft</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Questions moved from National Football League draft subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Puzzled_re_salaries" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Puzzled_re_salaries"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">79.1</span> <span>Puzzled re salaries</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Puzzled_re_salaries-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-What_happens...?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#What_happens...?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">79.2</span> <span>What happens...?</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-What_happens...?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">80</span> <span>Hierarchy of organizational templates at bottom of NFL season lists</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">81</span> <span>Rams and Chargers abbreviations</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">82</span> <span>Blacklisted links on old season pages</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Position_coach" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Position_coach"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">83</span> <span>Position coach</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Position_coach-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">84</span> <span>Edit war at Carolina Panthers</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">17 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Candidate_equals_hired??" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Candidate_equals_hired??"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">85</span> <span>Candidate equals hired??</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Candidate_equals_hired??-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-User:Gvspillman" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#User:Gvspillman"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">86</span> <span>User:Gvspillman</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-User:Gvspillman-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Le'Veon_Bell" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Le'Veon_Bell"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">87</span> <span>Le'Veon Bell</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Le'Veon_Bell-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Question" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Question"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">88</span> <span>Question</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">9 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Question-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Interesting_AfD" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Interesting_AfD"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">89</span> <span>Interesting AfD</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Interesting_AfD-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Linking_of_cities" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Linking_of_cities"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">90</span> <span>Linking of cities</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">14 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Linking_of_cities-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-James_Laurinaitis" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#James_Laurinaitis"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">91</span> <span>James Laurinaitis</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-James_Laurinaitis-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Requesting_additional_eyes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Requesting_additional_eyes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">92</span> <span>Requesting additional eyes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Requesting_additional_eyes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Module:Sports_table" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Module:Sports_table"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">93</span> <span>Module:Sports table</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Module:Sports_table-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Cardinals_history" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Cardinals_history"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">94</span> <span>Cardinals history</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Cardinals_history-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">95</span> <span>Need admin(s) on standby during the Super Bowl</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Terry_Bradshaw" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Terry_Bradshaw"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">96</span> <span>Terry Bradshaw</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Terry_Bradshaw-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-All-Pro_navboxes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#All-Pro_navboxes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">97</span> <span>All-Pro navboxes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-All-Pro_navboxes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li 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class="mbox-text" style="text-align:center">This is an <b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">archive</a></b> of past discussions on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League">Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League</a>. <b>Do not edit the contents of this page.</b> If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League">current talk page</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <table style="text-align:center;margin:0 auto 0.5em;max-width:50em;width:100%;width:-moz-available;width:-webkit-fill-available;width:stretch"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_10" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 10">Archive 10</a></td><td>←</td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_13" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 13">Archive 13</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_14" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 14">Archive 14</a></td><td><span style="font-size:115%;"><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Archive 15</a></span></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_16" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 16">Archive 16</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_17" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 17">Archive 17</a></td><td>→</td><td><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_20" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 20">Archive 20</a></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Players_who_were_suspended" data-mw-thread-id="h-Players_who_were_suspended-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Players_who_were_suspended-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z"></span>Players who were suspended<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Players_who_were_suspended-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span>I noticed that players like <a href="/wiki/Ricky_Williams" title="Ricky Williams">Ricky Williams</a> and <a href="/wiki/Adam_Jones_(American_football)" title="Adam Jones (American football)">Adam Jones</a> were suspended for a whole season (Williams-2006) and (Jones-2007). Ricky Williams <a href="/wiki/Miami_Dolphins" title="Miami Dolphins">Dolphins</a> career keeps getting split even though <a href="/wiki/National_Football_League" title="National Football League">NFL</a>.com has Williams listed as on the team in 2006, but with zero stats. If I look on the 2006 Dolphins roster, he is listed on there, but on the reserve list as suspended. Adam Jones' infobox has 2007 even though he was suspended. NFL.com doesn't include him as a player the year he was suspended. It is confusing that we have two suspended players and their infoboxes are different. I think that Adam Jones' shouldn't have 2007 since NFL.com doesn't show he played, but I think the Ricky Williams' Dolphins career shouldn't be split because NFL.com lists him as a player in 2006. What do you guys think? —<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 28 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T00:01:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z"></span>Ricky Williams also retired in 2004 and didn't play that entire season. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T00:01:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:01, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T00:01:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T00:01:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-02-28T23:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span>Lizard</a> but NFL lists Williams on the roster in 2006 though... which means that his Dolphins career shouldn't be separated —<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:08, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T03:11:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z"></span>I'm not sure. The reason I reverted your edit was because you had listed his Dolphins career as 2002–2010, when there should <i>at least</i> be one gap, in 2004 when he was retired. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T03:11:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:11, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T03:11:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T03:11:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T03:20:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z"></span>From what I've seen, missing time for any reason, be it of a player's own volition or otherwise, the years are separated <i>on the same line</i> by a comma if the player didn't join a new team after missing said time. See <a href="/wiki/Ken_Kavanaugh" title="Ken Kavanaugh">Ken Kavanaugh</a>, <a href="/wiki/Tony_Canadeo" title="Tony Canadeo">Tony Canadeo</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Bill_Dudley" title="Bill Dudley">Bill Dudley</a>, who each missed time to serve in WWII. <a href="/wiki/Paul_Hornung" title="Paul Hornung">Paul Hornung</a> and <a href="/wiki/Alex_Karras" title="Alex Karras">Alex Karras</a> each served a year suspension for gambling. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T03:20:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:20, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T03:20:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T03:20:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T03:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:11:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span>Lizard</a> I changed Adam Jones' because he missed 2007 due to suspension. This means that <a href="/wiki/Josh_Gordon" title="Josh Gordon">Josh Gordon</a> should be changed, which I will do now. —<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:11:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:11:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:11:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T18:15:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:11:00.000Z"></span>Tough to say what to do with a player that's currently suspended. Clearly he's still on the roster, which makes me question our omission of other players' years. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T18:15:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:15, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T18:15:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T18:15:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:25:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span>Lizard</a> this means Ricky Williams Dolphins career would be (<a href="/wiki/2002_NFL_season" title="2002 NFL season">2002</a>–<a href="/wiki/2003_NFL_season" title="2003 NFL season">2003</a>), (<a href="/wiki/2005_NFL_season" title="2005 NFL season">2005</a>–<a href="/wiki/2010_NFL_season" title="2010 NFL season">2010</a>)....—<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:25:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:25, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:25:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:25:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:26:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:25:00.000Z"></span>Josh Gordon is still on the Browns roster and Adam Jones was still on the Titans roster in 2007. There's no reason not to include those years because they were suspended.--<a href="/wiki/User:Yankees10" title="User:Yankees10">Yankees10</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:26:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:26, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:26:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:26:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:25:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Yankees10" title="User:Yankees10"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:30:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span>Yankees10</a> NFL.com doesn't consider Adam Jones a player that year though.. This means that Paul Hornung and Alex Karras should have their years changed. —<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:30:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:30, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:30:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:30:00.000Z-Players_who_were_suspended"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:30:00.000Z"></span>NFL.com doesn't list IR players either (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/jordynelson/1032/profile">Jordy Nelson's 2015 is not there</a>). It also doesn't have practice squad/offseason years like we do. So i'm not sure we should be basing it off what NFL.com has.--<a href="/wiki/User:Yankees10" title="User:Yankees10">Yankees10</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:38, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-01T18:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T19:16:00.000Z-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Yankees10" title="User:Yankees10">Yankees10</a>:</span> <s>I know this is different leagues, but was <a href="/wiki/Alex_Rodriguez" title="Alex Rodriguez">Alex Rodriguez</a> on the Yankees rosters the season he was suspended?</s> <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T19:16:00.000Z-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:16, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T19:16:00.000Z-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T19:16:00.000Z-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T19:23:00.000Z-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z"></span>Never mind. "<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.espn.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/10278277/alex-rodriguez-suspension-reduced-162-games">Rodriguez will go off the Yankees' 40-man roster and onto a restricted list</a>." Not sure if the NFL has anything equivalent. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T19:23:00.000Z-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 1 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T19:23:00.000Z-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-01T19:23:00.000Z-Yankees10-2017-03-01T18:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template:Pros_vs._Joes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:Pros_vs._Joes-2017-03-03T03:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template:Pros_vs._Joes-2017-03-03T03:17:00.000Z"></span>Template:Pros vs. Joes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template:Pros_vs._Joes-2017-03-03T03:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-03T03:17:00.000Z-Template:Pros_vs._Joes"></span>I have nominated <a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Pros_vs._Joes&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Pros vs. Joes (page does not exist)">Template:Pros vs. Joes</a> for deletion. Please see the discussion <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2017_March_3#Template:Pros_vs._Joes" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 March 3">here</a>. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-03-03T03:17:00.000Z-Template:Pros_vs._Joes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 3 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-03T03:17:00.000Z-Template:Pros_vs._Joes"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-03T03:17:00.000Z-Template:Pros_vs._Joes"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"><span id="Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team.2C_or_by_the_team_they_played_for.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span>Are numbers retired by the current team, or by the team they played for?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?"></span>An IP contends that <a href="/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson" title="LaDainian Tomlinson">LaDainian Tomlinson</a>'s number should be listed as retired by the <i>San Diego</i> Chargers. However, in every other instance of a player's number being retired, the team name that's listed is the current iteration. That's because <i>most</i> of the time, when a team relocates it takes its history with it, thus retired numbers remain retired. This is true across all three North American sports projects (that lists retired numbers in the infobox). <a href="/wiki/Earl_Campbell" title="Earl Campbell">Earl Campbell</a> played for the Houston Oilers; his number is retired by the Tennessee Titans. <a href="/wiki/Wes_Unseld" title="Wes Unseld">Wes Unseld</a> played for the Baltimore Bullets; his number is retired by the Washington Wizards. <a href="/wiki/Roy_Campanella" title="Roy Campanella">Roy Campanella</a> played for the Brooklyn Dodgers; his number is retired by the Los Angeles Dodgers. I've asked WP:MLB and WP:NBA for input as well, since this also pertains to them: Should we list numbers as being retired by the current iteration of a team, or should we list numbers as being retired by the team as it was named when the player was with the team? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 19 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z-Are_numbers_retired_by_the_current_team,_or_by_the_team_they_played_for?"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tavix-2017-02-19T22:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span>It depends. Sometimes a franchise doesn't recognize the numbers retired under a former iteration. For example, the <a href="/wiki/Washington_Nationals" title="Washington Nationals">Washington Nationals</a> don't recognize numbers retired by the <a href="/wiki/Montreal_Expos" title="Montreal Expos">Montreal Expos</a>. I don't think that's the case with the Chargers though, as they haven't changed their identity with their move. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tavix" title="User:Tavix"> <span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia"><b>T</b>avix</span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tavix" title="User talk:Tavix"><span style="color:#000080; font-family:georgia">talk</span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tavix-2017-02-19T22:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:20, 19 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tavix-2017-02-19T22:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tavix-2017-02-19T22:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:22:00.000Z-Tavix-2017-02-19T22:20:00.000Z"></span>"That's because <i>most</i> of the time, when a team relocates it takes its history with it." <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:22:00.000Z-Tavix-2017-02-19T22:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 19 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:22:00.000Z-Tavix-2017-02-19T22:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:22:00.000Z-Tavix-2017-02-19T22:20:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DragonFury-2017-02-19T22:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span>IMO if it is listed as an achievement in the infobox (like with Tomlinson) it should be the current name for the team. So Tomlinson's infobox should read "Los Angeles Chargers No. 21 retired". That's because there no such thing as the San Diego Chargers anymore and it's not possible to have a retired number if there is no organization to keep it retired. The same goes for the Chargers Hall of Fame. If it's in a text regarding the moment of actual retirement then I would use San Diego as that was the name of the organization at the time.<a href="/wiki/User:DragonFury" title="User:DragonFury">DragonFury</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DragonFury" title="User talk:DragonFury">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-DragonFury-2017-02-19T22:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:23, 19 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DragonFury-2017-02-19T22:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DragonFury-2017-02-19T22:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2017-02-20T11:33:00.000Z-DragonFury-2017-02-19T22:23:00.000Z"></span>At least for NBA articles, we list the team when the player played for it, for example, <a href="/wiki/Spencer_Haywood" title="Spencer Haywood">Spencer Haywood</a>. The team might not exist anymore, but it was still retired by them. Johnny Unitas is a good example and there are edit wars about this from time to time... – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2017-02-20T11:33:00.000Z-DragonFury-2017-02-19T22:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:33, 20 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2017-02-20T11:33:00.000Z-DragonFury-2017-02-19T22:23:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2017-02-20T11:33:00.000Z-DragonFury-2017-02-19T22:23:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-23T22:49:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2017-02-20T11:33:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a>:</span> That's because the Thunder didn't keep the history of the SuperSonics. They fall under the same case as the Expos/Nationals. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-23T22:49:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2017-02-20T11:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 23 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-23T22:49:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2017-02-20T11:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-23T22:49:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2017-02-20T11:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-02-24T06:09:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span>Regardless of where the team is retired <i>now</i>, I would argue the "highlight" that goes in the infobox would be the team that retired the number at the time, whatever that name was. Think about putting together a highlight reel of a person's career. Would you highlight "San Diego Chargers retired this player's number!" or "Los Angeles Chargers still had the number retired X years later!". The former, obviously. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-02-24T06:09:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:09, 24 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-02-24T06:09:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-02-24T06:09:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-19T22:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-02-24T06:17:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-02-24T06:09:00.000Z"></span>If we list LT as being retired by SD as an exception, I don't agree it's a general rule of where the team was located at the time. What if his number had not been retired until after they moved to LA?—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-02-24T06:17:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-02-24T06:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:17, 24 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-02-24T06:17:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-02-24T06:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-02-24T06:17:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-02-24T06:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-24T06:26:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-02-24T06:17:00.000Z"></span>I don't think we should make any exceptions here. Not to mention it's misleading because it gives the impression the number isn't currently retired. Can you name me every player who's ever worn 19 for the Indianapolis Colts? No one has, because it's retired. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-24T06:26:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-02-24T06:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:26, 24 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-24T06:26:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-02-24T06:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-24T06:26:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-02-24T06:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-03-05T08:38:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-24T06:26:00.000Z"></span>"<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">... it gives the impression the number isn't currently retired</q>": This sways me toward listing the full name of the active team that currently has the player's number retired.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-03-05T08:38:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-24T06:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:38, 5 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-03-05T08:38:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-24T06:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-03-05T08:38:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-24T06:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-03-05T16:01:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-03-05T08:38:00.000Z"></span>That just sounds like a matter for the prose to me. The highlight is whatever team retired the number (note, this takes care of <a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>'s concern; I never said use the team they played for). We can include the fact that the number remains retired with whatever team in the text of the article. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-03-05T16:01:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-03-05T08:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 5 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-03-05T16:01:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-03-05T08:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-03-05T16:01:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-03-05T08:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Plea_for_help" data-mw-thread-id="h-Plea_for_help-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Plea_for_help-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span>Plea for help<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Plea_for_help-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z-Plea_for_help"></span>Okay, so here's the deal, proper English is for numbers, less than 0-9 to be written out as zero-nine when in prose, and numbers 10+ to be in numerical format. People fail to do this when inserting stats in prose, they put "9 catches" etc, which is incorrect. So, I'm pleading with ya'll for help. If / when you see this, would you please be so kind as to fix it? I'm doing it as much as I can but <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bma7_DBnHwQ">I'm just one man</a>. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z-Plea_for_help" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:35, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z-Plea_for_help"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z-Plea_for_help"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-StarScream1007-2017-02-25T02:29:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span>I apologize if this seems like a tangent, but what about the numbering for NFL weeks? Ex: 'Jay Cutler had four turnovers against the Buccaneers during Week 8?.' Is that acceptable? --<small><span style="border: 1px solid"><a href="/wiki/User:StarScream1007" title="User:StarScream1007"><b><span style="background-color:White; color:#CC0000"> StarScream1007 </span></b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:StarScream1007" title="User talk:StarScream1007"><span style="background-color:#003399; color:white"> ►Talk </span></a> </span></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-StarScream1007-2017-02-25T02:29:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-StarScream1007-2017-02-25T02:29:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-StarScream1007-2017-02-25T02:29:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T02:35:00.000Z-StarScream1007-2017-02-25T02:29:00.000Z"></span>It's arguable wether or not that's a proper noun, but we seem to have accepted that it is when using the numeral. This may be a whole other issue worth discussing. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T02:35:00.000Z-StarScream1007-2017-02-25T02:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:35, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T02:35:00.000Z-StarScream1007-2017-02-25T02:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T02:35:00.000Z-StarScream1007-2017-02-25T02:29:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-02-25T02:54:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T02:35:00.000Z"></span>Not precisely the correct policy. See <a href="/wiki/MOS:NUMERAL" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:NUMERAL">MOS:NUMERAL</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-02-25T02:54:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T02:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-02-25T02:54:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T02:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-02-25T02:54:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T02:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-02-25T03:16:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-02-25T02:54:00.000Z"></span>Week 1–9 should be written as such, as they're advertised by the NFL under those names and known to the public as the same. But I agree, we need to clean up prose for the 0–9 nonsense. It's lazy writing. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-02-25T03:16:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-02-25T02:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:16, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-02-25T03:16:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-02-25T02:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-02-25T03:16:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-02-25T02:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T03:27:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span>Yes, and on that note, QB, RB, TD, INT, etc should also NEVER appear in prose. This is an encyclopedia, not Twitter. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T03:27:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T03:27:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T03:27:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T03:41:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T03:27:00.000Z"></span>^^^^^</b> YES! YES! YES!!! A thousand times yes! Also, I'm perfectly fine with the Week 9 format. That's the way I've been doing it. I figured it would be exactly as Rob said. lol <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T03:41:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T03:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:41, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T03:41:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T03:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T03:41:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-25T03:27:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:54:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T03:41:00.000Z"></span>Agreed. The use of these and other abbreviations has really proliferated, particularly in prose game summaries, and really should be eliminated. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:54:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T03:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 26 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:54:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T03:41:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:54:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T03:41:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/MOS:NUMERAL" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:NUMERAL"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-02-25T21:20:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span>MOS:NUMERAL</a> says "Comparable quantities should be all spelled out or all in figures" Example: "There were 3 winners and 206 losers, even though 3 would normally be given as three". <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-02-25T21:20:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 25 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-02-25T21:20:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-02-25T21:20:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-02-25T21:20:00.000Z"></span>WikOriginal-9 raises an interesting nuance. The quoted passage from MOS:NUMERAL seems to suggest: "Joe Quarterback gained 128 passing yards and 8 rushing yards in the game." It might also suggest, "Randy Receiver caught 8 passes for 128 yards in the game." Also, "Joe Quarterback completed 8 of 16 passes for 128 yards." I've generally spelled out "eight" in these circumstances, but now I'm not so sure that's right. What say others? <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-02-25T21:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:47, 26 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-02-25T21:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-02-25T21:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T16:55:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z"></span>I saw that too and had a momentary crisis. I'm just going to take it at face value and assume it only applies when the numbers are separated with "and." After all, carries and yards are not directly comparable. Also, I've never had an editor point this out to me in any GA reviews and I'm pretty sure I've written something like "eight carries for 120 yards" in nearly every article I've written. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T16:55:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:55, 26 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T16:55:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T16:55:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T17:03:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z"></span>Here's a line from <a href="/wiki/Billy_Cannon" title="Billy Cannon">Billy Cannon</a>: "Against the Red Raiders, Cannon had five punts for a 40-yard average, completed two of four passes for 31 yards, caught a 59-yard pass for a touchdown, carried thirteen times for 36 yards, and returned a kickoff for a touchdown". Quite the smorgasbord. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T17:03:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:03, 26 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T17:03:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T17:03:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-02-26T16:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-05T16:35:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T17:03:00.000Z"></span>I dunno, Liz. Maybe you can argue that "carries" and "yards" aren't comparable figures, but the quoted passage seems pretty clearly to apply to things like "Joe QB completed 8 of 16 passes". Just because it's an "of", rather than an "and" separating the figures, seems like a distinction without a difference. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-05T16:35:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T17:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:35, 5 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-05T16:35:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T17:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-05T16:35:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-02-26T17:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-02-26T14:30:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span>I think <a href="/wiki/MOS:NUMERAL" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:NUMERAL">MOS:NUMERAL</a> applies more to prose than what this is suggesting. Week numbers in the NFL officially a proper noun too, so they should be listed as such (capitalized W, and 1-9 over one-nine). ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-02-26T14:30:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:30, 26 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-02-26T14:30:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-02-26T14:30:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-02-25T01:35:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-26T18:45:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-02-26T14:30:00.000Z"></span>Regarding Lizard and their example, that's how I've been writing it as well: "eight carries for 47 yards", etc. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-26T18:45:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-02-26T14:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-26T18:45:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-02-26T14:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-02-26T18:45:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-02-26T14:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only"" data-mw-thread-id="h-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only"-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z"><span id="Flaw_in_how_we_denote_.22off-season_and.2For_practice_squad_member_only.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only"-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Flaw in how we denote "off-season and/or practice squad member only"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only"-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only""></span>PlayerA plays for Team1 from 2010 to 2016 and is traded from Team1 to Team2 on March 8, 2017. His infobox will read: </p> <ul><li>Team1 (2010–2016)</li> <li>Team2 (2017–present)</li></ul> <p>PlayerA dies after drowning in his bathtub on March 9, 2017. His infobox now reads: </p> <ul><li>Team1 (2010–2016)</li> <li>Team2 (2017)*</li></ul> <p>PlayerB has also played for Team1 from 2010 to 2016. He is <i>not</i> traded. He also dies in his bathtub on March 9, 2017. Regardless, his infobox will read: </p> <ul><li>Team1 (2010–2016)</li></ul> <p>Did PlayerB not also spend his final days on a team during the 2017 off-season? He did, but there's no way for us to show that with how we currently list teams. An actual example is <a href="/wiki/Paul_Hornung" title="Paul Hornung">Paul Hornung</a> vs. <a href="/wiki/Gale_Sayers" title="Gale Sayers">Gale Sayers</a>. Hornung was traded to the Saints in 1967 and retired during training camp. Sayers retired during the 1972 preseason with Da Bears but the infobox shows his career ending in 1971. Just throwing that out there. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only""></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only""></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-03-09T01:14:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>:</span> The easy solution is that we can (and should) use the ending date of the last season he was a signed member of the team, including if that means in the pre-season. I would say if one is traded or released in the off-season, that's different, but the year should be lifted if the player spent a single day on the roster after the start of training camp. I've done this with CFL biographies from the beginning, I believe (assuming I have good sourcing - not always the case). ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-03-09T01:14:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:14, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-03-09T01:14:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-03-09T01:14:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T04:26:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-03-09T01:14:00.000Z"></span>It seems to me that a player's presence on a pre-season roster should be treated the same whether there has been a change of teams or not.</dd> <dd>Case 1: Player spends 2014 season with Team A and is released by Team A on 8/31/15 without ever playing in a regular season game</dd> <dd>Case 2: Player spends 2014 season with Team A, is traded to Team B in the offseason, and is then released by Team B on 8/31/15 without ever playing in a regular season game.</dd> <dd>Case 3: Player spends 2014 season with Team A, is traded to Team B in the offseason, and is traded again, this time to Team C on 8/31/15 for whom he plays during the 2015 season.</dd> <dd>My inclination would be to exclude the 2015 preseason in all three cases. In Cases 1 and 2, the infobox should make no mention of 2015 "preseason only" play. In Case 3, we would identify his 2015 team as Team C without mentioning his preseason appearance with Team B. We should treat "preseason only" tenures consistently. I can think of no valid or logical reason for including the 2015 pre-season in one infobox but not the other. Either we list pre-season participation or not. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T04:26:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-03-09T01:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:26, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T04:26:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-03-09T01:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T04:26:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-03-09T01:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T05:59:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T04:26:00.000Z"></span>I concur with Cbl62 here. <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T05:59:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T04:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:59, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T05:59:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T04:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T05:59:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T04:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T06:34:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T05:59:00.000Z"></span>It looks like neither MLB nor NBA list off-season participation. Should we follow suit? I'm strongly against listing tenure without some sort of designation for off-season years; you'd be hard pressed to find any source that includes 1972 in Sayers' Bears tenure. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T06:34:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T05:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:34, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T06:34:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T05:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T06:34:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T05:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only""></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a>:</span> So you'd remove the Bills, Packers, and Browns from <a href="/wiki/Vince_Young" title="Vince Young">Vince Young</a>'s infobox? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:35, 10 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only""></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z-Flaw_in_how_we_denote_"off-season_and/or_practice_squad_member_only""></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-10T16:31:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span>I would leave practice squad players, as we've done previously with an asterisk. But, yeah, and assuming we're correct that Wikipedia doesn't do this for any other sport (I haven't seen preseason references in MLB articles), I'd support removal of strictly preseason play from NFL player infoboxes. Such "preseason only" participation could, of course, be discussed in the body of an article, but does not rise to a sufficient level of materiality to be included in infoboxes. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-10T16:31:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:31, 10 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-10T16:31:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-10T16:31:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T16:34:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-10T16:31:00.000Z"></span>That would get a support from me. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T16:34:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-10T16:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 10 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T16:34:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-10T16:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T16:34:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-10T16:31:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-10T21:00:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span>Lizard</a> so guys like <a href="/wiki/Terrelle_Pryor" title="Terrelle Pryor">Terrelle Pryor</a>, <a href="/wiki/Terrell_Owens" title="Terrell Owens">Terrell Owens</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Jerry_Rice" title="Jerry Rice">Jerry Rice</a> wouldn't have Seahawks/Chiefs/Bengals (TP), Seahawks (TO), or the Broncos (JR)? <a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-10T21:00:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 10 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-10T21:00:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-10T21:00:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T21:08:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-10T21:00:00.000Z"></span>Correct. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T21:08:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-10T21:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:08, 10 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T21:08:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-10T21:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T21:08:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-03-10T21:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-11T01:32:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span>Actually <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard</a>, JR and TO should be left alone because they played on the Broncos and the Seahawks in preseason. TP played with the Seahawks in preseason, just not with the Chiefs and Bengals. <a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-11T01:32:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:32, 11 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-11T01:32:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-03-11T01:32:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-10T15:35:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)-2017-03-14T12:19:00.000Z"><span id="Malcolm_Butler_.28American_football.29_Requested_Move_.28RM.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)-2017-03-14T12:19:00.000Z"></span>Malcolm Butler (American football) Requested Move (RM)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)-2017-03-14T12:19:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tocino-2017-03-14T12:19:00.000Z-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)"></span>Hello. I have proposed that <a href="/wiki/Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)" class="mw-redirect" title="Malcolm Butler (American football)">Malcolm Butler (American football)</a> be moved to <a href="/wiki/Malcolm_Butler" title="Malcolm Butler">Malcolm Butler</a>. Please have a look at the discussion if you are interested: <a href="/wiki/Talk:Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Malcolm Butler (American football)">Talk:Malcolm Butler (American_football)</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Tocino" title="User:Tocino">Tocino</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tocino-2017-03-14T12:19:00.000Z-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:19, 14 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tocino-2017-03-14T12:19:00.000Z-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tocino-2017-03-14T12:19:00.000Z-Malcolm_Butler_(American_football)_Requested_Move_(RM)"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="High_school_name_format" data-mw-thread-id="h-High_school_name_format-2017-03-19T15:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-High_school_name_format-2017-03-19T15:09:00.000Z"></span>High school name format<span data-mw-comment-end="h-High_school_name_format-2017-03-19T15:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-19T15:09:00.000Z-High_school_name_format"></span>Could someone please explain to <a href="/wiki/User:John_from_Idegon" title="User:John from Idegon">User:John from Idegon</a> the high school name format for the infobox, so that they stop screwing it up on <a href="/wiki/Bill_Wightkin" title="Bill Wightkin">Bill Wightkin</a>? <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-19T15:09:00.000Z-High_school_name_format" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:09, 19 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-19T15:09:00.000Z-High_school_name_format"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-19T15:09:00.000Z-High_school_name_format"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games" data-mw-thread-id="h-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"></span>Naming conventions for individual playoff games<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games"></span>There seems to be a gap in the naming conventions. The current naming conventions detail how the playoffs for an individual seasons should be formatting 19XX-YY NFL Playoffs. However, it doesn't say anything for an individual game in the playoffs. </p><p>This issue has come up as it pertains to the article <a href="/wiki/1998_NFC_Championship_Game" title="1998 NFC Championship Game">1998 NFC Championship Game</a>. I originally created it under the title "1999 NFC Championship Game," as the game itself took place on January 17, 1999. However, another user moved it to 1998 to reflect the regular season which this championship game followed. The user added 3 inline citation to support the year 1998, but I can easily find sources that also refer to it as 1999. There does not seem to be a journalistic standard in regard to this naming convention, so it appears we'll have to agree on a Wikipedia standard in its absence. </p><p>I do not like the idea of naming it 1998-99 NFC Championship, because it implies (to me at least) that the game had occurred over two different years. <a href="/wiki/User:Helltopay-27" title="User:Helltopay-27">Helltopay-27</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Helltopay-27" title="User talk:Helltopay-27">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 16 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z-Naming_conventions_for_individual_playoff_games"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-X96lee15-2017-03-16T19:48:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"></span>For reference in college football bowl games, the game is labeled according to the year in which the game was played, not the season in which the game was a part of. — <a href="/wiki/User:X96lee15" title="User:X96lee15">X96lee15</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:X96lee15" title="User talk:X96lee15">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-X96lee15-2017-03-16T19:48:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 16 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-X96lee15-2017-03-16T19:48:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-X96lee15-2017-03-16T19:48:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:59:00.000Z-X96lee15-2017-03-16T19:48:00.000Z"></span>If it wasn't clear from my previous post, this is is my preferred methodology. <a href="/wiki/User:Helltopay-27" title="User:Helltopay-27">Helltopay-27</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Helltopay-27" title="User talk:Helltopay-27">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:59:00.000Z-X96lee15-2017-03-16T19:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:59, 16 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:59:00.000Z-X96lee15-2017-03-16T19:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:59:00.000Z-X96lee15-2017-03-16T19:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-17T04:49:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"></span>Yes, it does not help that the NFL's playoffs are held in the following calendar than the regular season, which may cause confusion to recent reliable sources. Many of the sources that were used to originally build up a majority of Wikipedia's NFL articles back in 2005 and 2006 (including the offline books <i>Total Football II: The Official Encyclopedia of the National Football League</i> and <i>The Sporting News Complete Super Bowl Book 1995</i>) used that "regular season" dating convention for both the NFC and AFC conference championship games. Back in 2005 and 2006, that was more definite. I should also note that particular article was originally at <a href="/wiki/Gary_Anderson%27s_missed_field_goal_in_the_1998_NFC_Championship_Game" class="mw-redirect" title="Gary Anderson's missed field goal in the 1998 NFC Championship Game">Gary Anderson's missed field goal in the 199<b>8</b> NFC Championship Game</a> (emphasis added).</dd></dl> <dl><dd>My preference? Let me say that the NFL has uploaded the full game on its official YouTube channel.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7eXlLooPHE">[1]</a>, and a list of several other full games.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRdw3IjKY2gljzUFGcwPcxF0jTM-GVcjc">[2]</a> Throughout last year, the NFL was uploading several full games onto YouTube after a contest.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000672345/article/nfl-reveals-youtube-upload-game-winners">[3]</a> We should match that, or else Wikipedia will not be in sync. Imagine someone trying to look up "1981 NFC Championship Game" in Wikipedia after watching it on YouTube: would they expect <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uR-RR7nUW8g">this game</a> played in January 198<b>1</b> after the 198<b>0</b> regular season or <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcflzu8bKc0">this game</a> played in January 198<b>2</b> after the 198<b>1</b> regular season? <a href="/wiki/User:Zzyzx11" title="User:Zzyzx11">Zzyzx11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzyzx11" title="User talk:Zzyzx11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-17T04:49:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 17 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-17T04:49:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-17T04:49:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-16T19:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-17T20:10:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-17T04:49:00.000Z"></span>First, a point of correction: the original title of Gary Anderson's missed field goal in the 1998 NFC Championship Game was changed from 1999 to 1998, then changed back to 1999 NFC Championship, then moved <i>again</i> to 1998; quite honestly, without checking the article's history, I had presumed it was you who had initially moved the "Gary Anderson" article. To avoid an edit war, I've let it be until we clarify a new convention with this discussion.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Anyway, I believe that confusion may also be created in the sense that casual fans may note that the calendar year does not match the year in the title, regardless of the year of the regular season, and may not immediately understand the connection.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>In addition to the CFB format mentioned above, Wikipedia already formats Pro Bowl articles with the year of the game, not the year of the regular season which it followed. I think it would also run contrary to the 19XX-YY format we currently use for playoff articles; why delineate the YY years if we do not reference them in relevant playoff games? <a href="/wiki/User:Helltopay-27" title="User:Helltopay-27">Helltopay-27</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Helltopay-27" title="User talk:Helltopay-27">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-17T20:10:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-17T04:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 17 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-17T20:10:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-17T04:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-17T20:10:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-17T04:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-19T12:24:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-17T20:10:00.000Z"></span>No, it looks like someone else made the original date change.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1998_NFC_Championship_Game&diff=737458332&oldid=737458272">[4]</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Back to the matter at hand: CFB is irrelevant, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS">WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS</a>, especially since they really do not have a consistent, official dating/naming convention for these annual bowl games to rely on, and so we are thus forced to do these Wikipedia-only disambiguation schemes that result in titles like <a href="/wiki/2016_Fiesta_Bowl_(December)" title="2016 Fiesta Bowl (December)">2016 Fiesta Bowl (December)</a> and <a href="/wiki/2016_Fiesta_Bowl_(January)" title="2016 Fiesta Bowl (January)">2016 Fiesta Bowl (January)</a>. Conversely, Wikipedia can date the Pro Bowl articles that way because that is how the NFL officially does that.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000760503/article/nfl-announces-2017-pro-bowl-rosters">[5]</a> Then, I assume that the consistent 19XX-YY format we currently use for playoff articles has largely been an acceptable consensus over the years because the NFL use to start the postseason in December (<a href="/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_NFL_playoffs" title="2000–01 NFL playoffs">2000–01 NFL playoffs</a> appears to be the last time a December playoff game happened, and in the early and mid-1970s the playoffs usually began around Christmas).</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>On the other hand, the NFC and AFC Championship Games are a bit different. You just admitted that "does not seem to be a journalistic standard" for the dating, so that cancels each other out. And you stated that you are against 19XX-YY format. Thus we are left with either the NFL's official dating conventions,<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8060961f/article/1998-nfc-championship">[6]</a> or the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">personal preference</a> of a single Wikipedia editor. Under Wikipedia's policies, which of those two would be generally more <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CRITERIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CRITERIA">recognizable</a> with someone familiar with the topic, and should thus win out?</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>In fact, this "casual fan" reasoning should be revisited because that was decided around 2005-06 when <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AT">WP:AT</a> had this different <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Article_titles&diff=next&oldid=178522045">"readers/general audience over editors/specialists" principle</a>, and before <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NAMINGCRITERIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NAMINGCRITERIA">WP:NAMINGCRITERIA</a> was fully implemented, stating that the article title should be "a name or description of the subject that <b>someone familiar with</b>, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize" (emphasis added). Wikipedia articles titles are now suppose to educate, not cater to casual fans who would likely be more <i>unfamiliar</i> to the article's subject. Otherwise, you could get more similar edits from very semi-active users <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1998_NFC_Championship_Game&diff=737458332&oldid=737458272">like this one</a>, who I would assume <i>is familiar</i> with this subject. <a href="/wiki/User:Zzyzx11" title="User:Zzyzx11">Zzyzx11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzyzx11" title="User talk:Zzyzx11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-19T12:24:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-17T20:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:24, 19 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-19T12:24:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-17T20:10:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-19T12:24:00.000Z-Helltopay-27-2017-03-17T20:10:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-21T10:07:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-19T12:24:00.000Z"></span>If needed, any possible title confusion can be handled using <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Distinguish" title="Template:Distinguish">distinguish</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>, <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:About" title="Template:About">about</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>, or other <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HATNOTE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HATNOTE">hatnote templates</a>. Or it may in fact not need one, like <a href="/wiki/Miss_America_2017" title="Miss America 2017">Miss America 2017</a> where the event took place in a different calendar year than what the article title says. <a href="/wiki/User:Zzyzx11" title="User:Zzyzx11">Zzyzx11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzyzx11" title="User talk:Zzyzx11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-21T10:07:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-19T12:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:07, 21 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-21T10:07:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-19T12:24:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zzyzx11-2017-03-21T10:07:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-19T12:24:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-22T01:41:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-21T10:07:00.000Z"></span>I don't have any reasonable counter. Unless anyone else finds any objection to the naming convention, I think that this line of reasoning should be explicitly stated as the proper format under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League#Naming_conventions" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League">Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League#Naming conventions</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Helltopay-27" title="User:Helltopay-27">Helltopay-27</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Helltopay-27" title="User talk:Helltopay-27">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-22T01:41:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-21T10:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:41, 22 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-22T01:41:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-21T10:07:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Helltopay-27-2017-03-22T01:41:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2017-03-21T10:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="NFL_biography_infobox" data-mw-thread-id="h-NFL_biography_infobox-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-NFL_biography_infobox-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"></span>NFL biography infobox<span data-mw-comment-end="h-NFL_biography_infobox-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z-NFL_biography_infobox"></span>I made an edit to a current NFL players biography infobox (<a href="/wiki/Andrew_Turzilli" title="Andrew Turzilli">Andrew Turzilli</a>) where I added the college that player played for the first 3 years of their eligibility. They were actually on that team for 4 total years, as they redshirted one year. My edit was then reverted with the reasoning only the last college the player played for should be listed. But, upon reading more at <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography">Template:Infobox NFL biography</a> I noticed under the <i>college</i> section information which seems to back up my edit as being appropriate. It says, <i>If a player attended multiple colleges, usually only the last college team is displayed (usually the one listed on NFL.com);</i> <b>however, if important to understanding a player's college career history, an additional college team may be included.</b> So, my question is, doesn't the school the player spent 4 years at, played 3 years of their 4 years of eligibility at, and received their undergraduate degree from count as being important to understanding the player's college career history? Thanks for any input. <a href="/wiki/User:Kmanblue" title="User:Kmanblue">Kmanblue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kmanblue" title="User talk:Kmanblue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z-NFL_biography_infobox" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 8 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z-NFL_biography_infobox"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z-NFL_biography_infobox"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-08T04:21:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"></span>Well, as you and I have discussed, I'm personally, last college / university only. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-08T04:21:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:21, 8 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-08T04:21:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-08T04:21:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-08T04:21:00.000Z"></span>Obviously, I'm not. I think the college the player spent the vast majority of their time playing for is important enough to also list. Especially with graduate transfers (Turzilli was one of these) becoming so much more popular these days I think it will become more and more important to list more than just the last school they played at.<a href="/wiki/User:Kmanblue" title="User:Kmanblue">Kmanblue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kmanblue" title="User talk:Kmanblue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-08T04:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:26, 8 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-08T04:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-08T04:21:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T02:52:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z"></span>If a player has significant playing time as a starter with two Division I FBS programs (e.g., the increasingly common graduate transfer situation raised by Kmanblue), both schools should be listed in the NFL infobox. If the players was simply on the roster of a different program and/or saw minimal playing time, I'd say no need to include in the infobox. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T02:52:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:52, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a>'<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T02:52:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T02:52:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:02:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T02:52:00.000Z"></span>Examples of graduate transfers where both teams appear, and rightly so IMO: <a href="/wiki/Houston_Bates" title="Houston Bates">Houston Bates</a>, <a href="/wiki/Charles_Sims_(American_football)" title="Charles Sims (American football)">Charles Sims</a>, <a href="/wiki/Ryan_Smith_(cornerback,_born_1985)" title="Ryan Smith (cornerback, born 1985)">Ryan Smith</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Russell_Wilson" title="Russell Wilson">Russell Wilson</a>. <a href="/w/index.php?title=Jack_Rudock&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Jack Rudock (page does not exist)">Jack Rudock</a> (starting QB at Iowa 2013-2014 and Michigan 2015) is another where IMO both should be listed. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:02:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T02:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:02, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:02:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T02:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:02:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T02:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z"></span>(edit conflict)I think I'd agree with the last college theorem, under the general "what have you done for us recently?". A player's draft prospects are mostly determined by the last year he played, not the earlier years. Unless there is a documented reason that the earlier years matter (probably vanishingly rare), I'd say they don't belong in the infobox. In the particular case of Turzilli, the Kansas years appear in the article, but don't seem to be necessary in the infobox. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:55, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:18:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N.">Tarl N.</a>:</span> is "what have you done for us recently?" a principle of Wikipedia? Or is the goal of a Wikipedia article to comprehensively summarize its subject? <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:18:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:18, 14 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:18:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:18:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T04:46:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:18:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a>:</span> Not a principle of Wikipedia, a principle of relevance. The infobox should be the minimal information you need to have a snapshot of the career. The relevant piece of information for moving to the pros is what did he do in the year before that move. The information about his previous college is relevant, and belongs in the article, but under the principle of parsimony, it isn't the most relevant piece of information for the infobox line saying which college attended. Again, there will be rare cases where a previous college is documented as being significant - but this doesn't look like one of them. I guess a case might be something like the player was drafted in a way where his last college experience didn't make any sense, but he was drafted by his previous ex-coach who had moved onto the pros, or something like that. Again, probably vanishingly rare cases where a previous college experience belongs in the infobox. You want the infobox to be concise, not exhaustive. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T04:46:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:46, 14 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T04:46:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T04:46:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:18:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:49:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T04:46:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N.">Tarl N.</a>:</span> Why are you placing a player's college career within the framework of how he was drafted into the NFL? Isn't it possible that his entire college career could be as relevant and notable, or even more so, than his pro career? <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:49:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T04:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 14 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:49:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T04:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:49:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T04:46:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T05:59:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:49:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a>:</span> Again, parsimony. You want infobox to be concise, not exhaustive. Generally, the highest level someone achieves is the most relevant for a biography, and generally the pros are considered higher level than college. Someone who only did college football (never went to the pros), attended two colleges, was all-american at the first and didn't achieve anything in the last school, indeed, you'd put the prior school in the infobox. But again, parsimony - you'd put <b>one</b> college on the line, not multiples. The cases where you have to cram multiple entries onto a line should be vanishingly rare. That's information for the article, not the infobox. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T05:59:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:59, 14 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T05:59:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T05:59:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T04:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T07:27:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T05:59:00.000Z"></span>In the case of Turzilli, he achieved at least as much at Kansas as he did at Rutgers. And his college career is more distinguished than his pro career so far. If it's parsimony you're after, why omit one line in the infobox representing Kansas, where Turzilli was a multi-year starter and received all-conference honors, yet spend three lines plus a line for notation to represent stints on NFL pre-season / practice squads? <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T07:27:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T05:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:27, 14 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T07:27:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T05:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-14T07:27:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-14T05:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T03:31:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z"></span>I just realized, I should've expanded my statement some. lol. The way I see it, NFL.com, ESPN.com, etc. only list the last school played for, ala <a href="/wiki/Ryan_Mundy" title="Ryan Mundy">Ryan Mundy</a> and <a href="/wiki/Steve_Smith_Sr." title="Steve Smith Sr.">Steve Smith Sr.</a>. So, are we really saying they are wrong? (Note the question is sarcastic lol.) <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T03:31:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T03:31:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T03:31:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-03-09T02:55:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:15:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T03:31:00.000Z"></span>Some web sites may simply not be set up to have multiple entries in the "college" field. Pro-Footall-Reference.com appears to use a nuanced approach where multiple schools are listed if the playing time was significant at both. E.g., <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WilsRu00.htm">Russell Wilson</a> (both schools listed). <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:15:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T03:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:15, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:15:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T03:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:15:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T03:31:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T03:17:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:15:00.000Z"></span>I definitely think both should be listed for some, if not all players. <a href="/wiki/Russell_Wilson" title="Russell Wilson">Russell Wilson</a> certainly. Then there's an extreme example in <a href="/wiki/Crazylegs_Hirsch" class="mw-redirect" title="Crazylegs Hirsch">Crazylegs Hirsch</a>, whose number is retired by Wisconsin yet he last played in college for Michigan. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T03:17:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T03:17:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T03:17:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T03:17:00.000Z"></span>Crazylegs is a great example. See also <a href="/wiki/Bill_Daley_(American_football)" title="Bill Daley (American football)">Bill Daley</a> (won two national championships at Minnesota, then a consensus All-American at Michigan) and <a href="/wiki/Fred_Negus" title="Fred Negus">Fred Negus</a> (first-team All-Big Ten at both Wisconsin and Michigan). A one-size-fits-all "last school only" approach doesn't make sense. Judgment needs to be exercised on importance of the player's career at each school. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T03:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:25, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T03:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-09T03:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-09T07:33:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z"></span>The College Football Hall of Fame lists all colleges a player played at. I agree that if a player spent a RS year somewhere and/or 1 RS year and then 1 year of minimal playing time then transferred, there's no need to list the 1st school. But in the case of someone playing the majority of their playing time on 1 team then spending their final year at another, or even if a player played equal amounts of time at 2 schools, then I think both should be listed. It would also appear from the link to the original discussion on this topic linked by <a href="/wiki/User:UW_Dawgs" title="User:UW Dawgs">UW Dawgs</a> below that a similar conclusion was reached to what this discussion seems to be reaching and why the text I bolded was put in to the template page. <a href="/wiki/User:Kmanblue" title="User:Kmanblue">Kmanblue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kmanblue" title="User talk:Kmanblue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Kmanblue-2017-03-09T07:33:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:33, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-09T07:33:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-09T07:33:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-09T08:29:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z"></span>I would be grateful if anyone reading or partaking in this discussion weighs in on the specific page which initiated my posting here, i.e. <a href="/wiki/Andrew_Turzilli" title="Andrew Turzilli">Andrew Turzilli</a> at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Andrew_Turzilli" title="Talk:Andrew Turzilli">Talk:Andrew Turzilli</a>. I've already laid out my initial argument for including both Kansas and Rutgers in his infobox, but can expand if need be. Thanks in advance. <a href="/wiki/User:Kmanblue" title="User:Kmanblue">Kmanblue</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kmanblue" title="User talk:Kmanblue">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Kmanblue-2017-03-09T08:29:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:29, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-09T08:29:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kmanblue-2017-03-09T08:29:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-09T03:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-09T03:57:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"></span>Displaying multiple colleges is <i>allowed</i> per current consensus. See "Including "all" colleges attended in Infobox?" at <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_NFL_biography/Archive_9" title="Template talk:Infobox NFL biography/Archive 9">Template talk:Infobox NFL biography/Archive 9</a> for the reasoning for allowing multiple colleges and updating the Template's help text accordingly. My goal when initiating that discussion wasn't to <i>require</i> display of <i>all</i> colleges attended (such as an irrelevant lone RS-FR season followed by a transfer and playing four years), but to allow multiple colleges to be displayed when <i>relevant</i> to covering the player's college career (such as <a href="/wiki/Cam_Newton" title="Cam Newton">Cam Newton</a>, <a href="/wiki/Russell_Wilson" title="Russell Wilson">Russell Wilson</a>, <a href="/wiki/Trace_Armstrong" title="Trace Armstrong">Trace Armstrong</a> -an absurd story and worth the read). <a href="/wiki/User:UW_Dawgs" title="User:UW Dawgs">UW Dawgs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:UW_Dawgs" title="User talk:UW Dawgs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-09T03:57:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:57, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-09T03:57:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-09T03:57:00.000Z-Kmanblue-2017-03-08T04:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T16:54:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-09T03:57:00.000Z"></span>Clearly, in the case of Turzilli, Kansas should be displayed in the infobox. He was a multi-year starter there. Are we ready to tell CrashUnderride that we have a consensus here so as to avoid reversion of further common-sense edits? <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T16:54:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-09T03:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T16:54:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-09T03:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T16:54:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-09T03:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:06:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T16:54:00.000Z"></span>As I told you on your talk page <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a>, there's clearly <i>no consensus</i> either way. No consensus against doesn't automatically mean there's a consensus for. Also, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't <i>try</i> to insult me, 'kay? Thanks. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:06:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T16:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:06:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T16:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:06:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T16:54:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:12:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:06:00.000Z"></span>Crash Underride, four people have weighed in now in favor of listing Kansas, with good reason. Simply put, playing at Kansas is a material element of Turzilli's biography that would be mentioned with detail in the lead of a GA article. You are the only one in favor of listing last college only and you haven't given a reason other than "that's just how we do it", or "that's just how some other websites that aren't in the business of describing full biographical detail of NFL players" do it. What do you need to acknowledge a consensus against your position? <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:12:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:12, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:12:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:12:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:06:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:20:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:12:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a>:</span> is it too hard to ping me? Really? Last time I checked an RfC didn't end after less than 24 hours. lol. What's with the rush? They're usually open long enough for as many people as possible to voice their opinion. Got some kinda agenda? lol. Personally, I don't care, but I'm not gonna say okay until a <b>consensus</b> is reached. And four people in the group in less than 24 hours a consensus does not make. Let the discussion sit open for a few days and <i>then</i> come back to me, without the smart ass attitude, 'kay? Thanks. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:20:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:20, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:20:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:20:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:31:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:20:00.000Z"></span>You certainly seemed in a rush to revert my common-sense, consistency-reflecting edit at the Turzilli article. I have little patience for borderline obstructive editing like this and editors who feel the need to take personal insult when someone knocks down a bad argument. I can surely wait a few days if it will put this nonsense to rest for good. I do indeed have an agenda here. My agenda is making a quality encyclopedia. <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:31:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:31:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:31:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:41:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:31:00.000Z"></span>No, the insult is your condescension and complete lack of respect for a fellow editor. As for my reverting your edit, do not how quickly it was followed up with my post to your talk page telling you to see this discussion. So, either start showing some respect to fellow editors and don't be so condescending, or just go away for a few days and come back. Because I <b>will not</b> tolerate your insulting me with your holier-than-thou, "what I think is right" attitude. <b>WAIT</b> for a firm consensus, <i><b>that</b></i> is common sense. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:41:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:41, 9 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:41:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-09T17:41:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-03-09T17:31:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T16:48:00.000Z-NFL_biography_infobox"></span>Interestingly, no one bats an eye at multiple <i>high schools</i> in the infobox, such as on <a href="/wiki/Dominique_Rodgers-Cromartie" title="Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie">Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T16:48:00.000Z-NFL_biography_infobox" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 22 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T16:48:00.000Z-NFL_biography_infobox"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T16:48:00.000Z-NFL_biography_infobox"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Spelling_things_out_in_prose" data-mw-thread-id="h-Spelling_things_out_in_prose-2017-03-30T07:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Spelling_things_out_in_prose-2017-03-30T07:59:00.000Z"></span>Spelling things out in prose<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Spelling_things_out_in_prose-2017-03-30T07:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-30T07:59:00.000Z-Spelling_things_out_in_prose"></span>I think it's obvious we should be spelling out things like touchdown, reception, etc. as well as positions like quarterback, wide receiver, etc. in prose. <i>However</i> I've come across countless articles were this hasn't been done, most likely by IP editors more worried about getting information into the article, rather than uniformity, and consistency. So, do you think there's something we could add to articles, like the notice you get when you're editing a BLP article? You know, you click edit and that red box is at the top of the screen. I think it's because of the blp=yes field in the talk page template about biographies. That or a script that can go through all (gridiron) football articles and detect those things, in prose only, and correct them? Just a thought, input from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CFB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CFB">WP:CFB</a> is welcome as well as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CFL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CFL">WP:CFL</a>. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-30T07:59:00.000Z-Spelling_things_out_in_prose" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:59, 30 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-30T07:59:00.000Z-Spelling_things_out_in_prose"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-30T07:59:00.000Z-Spelling_things_out_in_prose"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Score_format_revisited" data-mw-thread-id="h-Score_format_revisited-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Score_format_revisited-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"></span>Score format revisited<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Score_format_revisited-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z-Score_format_revisited"></span>For those interested in such things, the question of score formatting, previously discussed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_14#Score_format" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 14">Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_14#Score_format</a> is under review again at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_football#Score_format_in_season_article_schedule_tables" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Score format in season article schedule tables</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z-Score_format_revisited" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 11 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z-Score_format_revisited"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z-Score_format_revisited"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:09:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"></span>Note, the CFB linked discussion was spurred by the recent NFL discussion which failed to change this project's 9 years of consensus, and has now morphed into <i>justification</i> for changing the CFB project's 10 years of consensus. Wonderful. <a href="/wiki/User:UW_Dawgs" title="User:UW Dawgs">UW Dawgs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:UW_Dawgs" title="User talk:UW Dawgs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:09:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:09, 11 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:09:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:09:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-11T17:53:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:09:00.000Z"></span>Wrong and wrong. The recent NFL discussion was intended to reach consensus for a standard formatting for scores, and the consensus there was in favor of "winning score first". Even in tables, the "winning score first" format is used in the vast majority (well over 1,100) of NFL schedule tables. See, e.g., <b>81 Giants</b> (<a href="/wiki/1926_New_York_Giants_season" title="1926 New York Giants season">1926</a>-<a href="/wiki/1947_New_York_Giants_season" title="1947 New York Giants season">1947</a>, <a href="/wiki/1949_New_York_Giants_season" title="1949 New York Giants season">1949</a>, <a href="/wiki/1951_New_York_Giants_season" title="1951 New York Giants season">1951</a>-<a href="/wiki/1963_New_York_Giants_season" title="1963 New York Giants season">1963</a>, <a href="/wiki/1965_New_York_Giants_season" title="1965 New York Giants season">1965</a>-<a href="/wiki/1966_New_York_Giants_season" title="1966 New York Giants season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_New_York_Giants_season" title="1968 New York Giants season">1968</a>-<a href="/wiki/1980_New_York_Giants_season" title="1980 New York Giants season">1980</a>, <a href="/wiki/1983_New_York_Giants_season" title="1983 New York Giants season">1983</a>-<a href="/wiki/1985_New_York_Giants_season" title="1985 New York Giants season">1985</a>, <a href="/wiki/1988_New_York_Giants_season" title="1988 New York Giants season">1988</a>, <a href="/wiki/1992_New_York_Giants_season" title="1992 New York Giants season">1992</a>-<a href="/wiki/1999_New_York_Giants_season" title="1999 New York Giants season">1999</a>, <a href="/wiki/2002_New_York_Giants_season" title="2002 New York Giants season">2002</a>-<a href="/wiki/2008_New_York_Giants_season" title="2008 New York Giants season">2008</a>), <b>79 Cardinals</b> (<a href="/wiki/1920_Chicago_Cardinals_season" title="1920 Chicago Cardinals season">1920</a>-<a href="/wiki/1943_Chicago_Cardinals_season" title="1943 Chicago Cardinals season">1943</a>, <a href="/wiki/1945_Chicago_Cardinals_season" title="1945 Chicago Cardinals season">1945</a>-<a href="/wiki/1946_Chicago_Cardinals_season" title="1946 Chicago Cardinals season">1946</a>, <a href="/wiki/1949_Chicago_Cardinals_season" title="1949 Chicago Cardinals season">1949</a>, <a href="/wiki/1951_Chicago_Cardinals_season" title="1951 Chicago Cardinals season">1951</a>-<a href="/wiki/1966_St._Louis_Cardinals_(NFL)_season" title="1966 St. Louis Cardinals (NFL) season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_St._Louis_Cardinals_(NFL)_season" title="1968 St. Louis Cardinals (NFL) season">1968</a>-<a href="/wiki/1972_St._Louis_Cardinals_(NFL)_season" title="1972 St. Louis Cardinals (NFL) season">1972</a>, <a href="/wiki/1974_St._Louis_Cardinals_(NFL)_season" title="1974 St. Louis Cardinals (NFL) season">1974</a>, <a href="/wiki/1977_St._Louis_Cardinals_(NFL)_season" title="1977 St. Louis Cardinals (NFL) season">1977</a>, <a href="/wiki/1979_St._Louis_Cardinals_(NFL)_season" title="1979 St. Louis Cardinals (NFL) season">1979</a>-<a href="/wiki/1995_Arizona_Cardinals_season" title="1995 Arizona Cardinals season">1995</a>, <a href="/wiki/1997_Arizona_Cardinals_season" title="1997 Arizona Cardinals season">1997</a>-<a href="/wiki/2002_Arizona_Cardinals_season" title="2002 Arizona Cardinals season">2002</a>, <a href="/wiki/2004_Arizona_Cardinals_season" title="2004 Arizona Cardinals season">2004</a>-<a href="/wiki/2009_Arizona_Cardinals_season" title="2009 Arizona Cardinals season">2009</a>), <b>71 Lions</b> (<a href="/wiki/1930_Portsmouth_Spartans_season" title="1930 Portsmouth Spartans season">1930</a>-<a href="/wiki/1946_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1946 Detroit Lions season">1946</a>, <a href="/wiki/1948_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1948 Detroit Lions season">1948</a>-<a href="/wiki/1951_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1951 Detroit Lions season">1951</a>, <a href="/wiki/1953_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1953 Detroit Lions season">1953</a>-<a href="/wiki/1966_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1966 Detroit Lions season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1968 Detroit Lions season">1968</a>-<a href="/wiki/1970_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1970 Detroit Lions season">1970</a>, <a href="/wiki/1973_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1973 Detroit Lions season">1973</a>-<a href="/wiki/1981_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1981 Detroit Lions season">1981</a>, <a href="/wiki/1983_Detroit_Lions_season" title="1983 Detroit Lions season">1983</a>-<a href="/wiki/2000_Detroit_Lions_season" title="2000 Detroit Lions season">2000</a>, <a href="/wiki/2003_Detroit_Lions_season" title="2003 Detroit Lions season">2003</a>-<a href="/wiki/2006_Detroit_Lions_season" title="2006 Detroit Lions season">2006</a>, <a href="/wiki/2009_Detroit_Lions_season" title="2009 Detroit Lions season">2009</a>-<a href="/wiki/2010_Detroit_Lions_season" title="2010 Detroit Lions season">2010</a>), <b>63 Redskins</b> (<a href="/wiki/1932_Boston_Braves_(NFL)_season" title="1932 Boston Braves (NFL) season">1932</a>-<a href="/wiki/1941_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1941 Washington Redskins season">1941</a>, <a href="/wiki/1943_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1943 Washington Redskins season">1943</a>-<a href="/wiki/1960_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1960 Washington Redskins season">1960</a>, <a href="/wiki/1962_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1962 Washington Redskins season">1962</a>-<a href="/wiki/1966_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1966 Washington Redskins season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1968 Washington Redskins season">1968</a>-<a href="/wiki/1980_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1980 Washington Redskins season">1980</a>, <a href="/wiki/1985_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1985 Washington Redskins season">1985</a>-<a href="/wiki/1986_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1986 Washington Redskins season">1986</a>, <a href="/wiki/1988_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1988 Washington Redskins season">1988</a>-<a href="/wiki/1990_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1990 Washington Redskins season">1990</a>, <a href="/wiki/1993_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1993 Washington Redskins season">1993</a>-<a href="/wiki/1998_Washington_Redskins_season" title="1998 Washington Redskins season">1998</a>, <a href="/wiki/2000_Washington_Redskins_season" title="2000 Washington Redskins season">2000</a>-<a href="/wiki/2001_Washington_Redskins_season" title="2001 Washington Redskins season">2001</a>, <a href="/wiki/2004_Washington_Redskins_season" title="2004 Washington Redskins season">2004</a>-<a href="/wiki/2007_Washington_Redskins_season" title="2007 Washington Redskins season">2007</a>), <b>62 Packers</b> (<a href="/wiki/1921_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1921 Green Bay Packers season">1921</a>-<a href="/wiki/1932_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1932 Green Bay Packers season">1932</a>, <a href="/wiki/1934_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1934 Green Bay Packers season">1934</a>-<a href="/wiki/1943_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1943 Green Bay Packers season">1943</a>, <a href="/wiki/1945_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1945 Green Bay Packers season">1945</a>-<a href="/wiki/1949_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1949 Green Bay Packers season">1949</a>, <a href="/wiki/1951_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1951 Green Bay Packers season">1951</a>-<a href="/wiki/1958_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1958 Green Bay Packers season">1958</a>, 1960, 1964-1965, <a href="/wiki/1968_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1968 Green Bay Packers season">1968</a>-<a href="/wiki/1969_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1969 Green Bay Packers season">1969</a>, <a href="/wiki/1972_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1972 Green Bay Packers season">1972</a>-<a href="/wiki/1978_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1978 Green Bay Packers season">1978</a>, <a href="/wiki/1980_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1980 Green Bay Packers season">1980</a>-<a href="/wiki/1982_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1982 Green Bay Packers season">1982</a>, <a href="/wiki/1988_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1988 Green Bay Packers season">1988</a>-<a href="/wiki/1990_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1990 Green Bay Packers season">1990</a>, <a href="/wiki/1992_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1992 Green Bay Packers season">1992</a>-<a href="/wiki/1995_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="1995 Green Bay Packers season">1995</a>, <a href="/wiki/2005_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="2005 Green Bay Packers season">2005</a>-<a href="/wiki/2009_Green_Bay_Packers_season" title="2009 Green Bay Packers season">2009</a>), <b>60 Eagles</b> (<a href="/wiki/1933_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1933 Philadelphia Eagles season">1933</a>-<a href="/wiki/1949_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1949 Philadelphia Eagles season">1949</a>, <a href="/wiki/1951_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1951 Philadelphia Eagles season">1951</a>-<a href="/wiki/1959_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1959 Philadelphia Eagles season">1959</a>, <a href="/wiki/1961_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1961 Philadelphia Eagles season">1961</a>-<a href="/wiki/1966_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1966 Philadelphia Eagles season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1969_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1969 Philadelphia Eagles season">1969</a>-<a href="/wiki/1984_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1984 Philadelphia Eagles season">1984</a>, <a href="/wiki/1986_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1986 Philadelphia Eagles season">1986</a>-<a href="/wiki/1987_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1987 Philadelphia Eagles season">1987</a>, <a href="/wiki/1989_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="1989 Philadelphia Eagles season">1989</a>-<a href="/wiki/2003_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="2003 Philadelphia Eagles season">2003</a>, <a href="/wiki/2005_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="2005 Philadelphia Eagles season">2005</a>-<a href="/wiki/2009_Philadelphia_Eagles_season" title="2009 Philadelphia Eagles season">2009</a>), <b>58 Rams</b> (<a href="/wiki/1937_Cleveland_Rams_season" title="1937 Cleveland Rams season">1937</a>-<a href="/wiki/1944_Cleveland_Rams_season" title="1944 Cleveland Rams season">1944</a>, <a href="/wiki/1946_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1946 Los Angeles Rams season">1946</a>-<a href="/wiki/1949_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1949 Los Angeles Rams season">1949</a>, <a href="/wiki/1951_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1951 Los Angeles Rams season">1951</a>-<a href="/wiki/1961_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1961 Los Angeles Rams season">1961</a>, <a href="/wiki/1963_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1963 Los Angeles Rams season">1963</a>-<a href="/wiki/1966_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1966 Los Angeles Rams season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1968 Los Angeles Rams season">1968</a>, <a href="/wiki/1970_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1970 Los Angeles Rams season">1970</a>-<a href="/wiki/1978_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1978 Los Angeles Rams season">1978</a>, <a href="/wiki/1980_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1980 Los Angeles Rams season">1980</a>-<a href="/wiki/1983_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1983 Los Angeles Rams season">1983</a>, <a href="/wiki/1986_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1986 Los Angeles Rams season">1986</a>-<a href="/wiki/1988_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1988 Los Angeles Rams season">1988</a>, <a href="/wiki/1990_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1990 Los Angeles Rams season">1990</a>, <a href="/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_Rams_season" title="1992 Los Angeles Rams season">1992</a>-<a href="/wiki/1997_St._Louis_Rams_season" title="1997 St. Louis Rams season">1997</a>, <a href="/wiki/1999_St._Louis_Rams_season" title="1999 St. Louis Rams season">1999</a>-<a href="/wiki/2002_St._Louis_Rams_season" title="2002 St. Louis Rams season">2002</a>, <a href="/wiki/2005_St._Louis_Rams_season" title="2005 St. Louis Rams season">2005</a>-<a href="/wiki/2007_St._Louis_Rams_season" title="2007 St. Louis Rams season">2007</a>), <b>57 Chicago Bears</b> (<a href="/wiki/1943_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1943 Chicago Bears season">1943</a>-<a href="/wiki/1949_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1949 Chicago Bears season">1949</a>, <a href="/wiki/1951_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1951 Chicago Bears season">1951</a>-<a href="/wiki/1964_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1964 Chicago Bears season">1964</a>, <a href="/wiki/1966_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1966 Chicago Bears season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1968 Chicago Bears season">1968</a>, <a href="/wiki/1970_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1970 Chicago Bears season">1970</a>-<a href="/wiki/1972_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1972 Chicago Bears season">1972</a>, <a href="/wiki/1975_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1975 Chicago Bears season">1975</a>-<a href="/wiki/1976_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1976 Chicago Bears season">1976</a>, <a href="/wiki/1978_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="1978 Chicago Bears season">1978</a>-<a href="/wiki/1984_Chicago_Bears_season#Regular_season" title="1984 Chicago Bears season">1984</a>, <a href="/wiki/1986_Chicago_Bears_season#Regular_season" title="1986 Chicago Bears season">1986</a>-<a href="/wiki/2001_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="2001 Chicago Bears season">2001</a>, <a href="/wiki/2003_Chicago_Bears_season#Schedule" title="2003 Chicago Bears season">2003</a>-<a href="/wiki/2007_Chicago_Bears_season#Regular_season_schedule" title="2007 Chicago Bears season">2007</a>, and <a href="/wiki/2009_Chicago_Bears_season#Regular_season" title="2009 Chicago Bears season">2009</a>), <b>55 Jets</b> (<a href="/wiki/1960_New_York_Titans_season" title="1960 New York Titans season">1960</a>-<a href="/wiki/1966_New_York_Jets_season" title="1966 New York Jets season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1969_New_York_Jets_season" title="1969 New York Jets season">1969</a>-<a href="/wiki/1977_New_York_Jets_season" title="1977 New York Jets season">1977</a>, <a href="/wiki/1979_New_York_Jets_season" title="1979 New York Jets season">1979</a>, <a href="/wiki/1981_New_York_Jets_season" title="1981 New York Jets season">1981</a>-<a href="/wiki/1995_New_York_Jets_season" title="1995 New York Jets season">1995</a>, <a href="/wiki/1997_New_York_Jets_season" title="1997 New York Jets season">1997</a>-<a href="/wiki/2009_New_York_Jets_season" title="2009 New York Jets season">2009</a>), <b>51 Browns</b> (<a href="/wiki/1946_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1946 Cleveland Browns season">1946</a>-<a href="/wiki/1947_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1947 Cleveland Browns season">1947</a>, <a href="/wiki/1951_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1951 Cleveland Browns season">1951</a>-<a href="/wiki/1963_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1963 Cleveland Browns season">1963</a>, <a href="/wiki/1966_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1966 Cleveland Browns season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1968 Cleveland Browns season">1968</a>, <a href="/wiki/1971_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1971 Cleveland Browns season">1971</a>-<a href="/wiki/1975_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1975 Cleveland Browns season">1975</a>, <a href="/wiki/1977_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1977 Cleveland Browns season">1977</a>-<a href="/wiki/1995_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1995 Cleveland Browns season">1995</a>, <a href="/wiki/1999_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="1999 Cleveland Browns season">1999</a>-<a href="/wiki/2003_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="2003 Cleveland Browns season">2003</a>, <a href="/wiki/2005_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="2005 Cleveland Browns season">2005</a>-<a href="/wiki/2009_Cleveland_Browns_season" title="2009 Cleveland Browns season">2009</a>), <b>49 Chiefs</b> (1961, 1964-1966, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1974-1976, 1978-1984, 1986-1996, 1998-1999, 2001-2009), <b>48 Steelers</b> (<a href="/wiki/1941_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1941 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1941</a>-<a href="/wiki/Steagles" title="Steagles">1943</a>, <a href="/wiki/1945_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1945 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1945</a>-<a href="/wiki/1949_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1949 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1949</a>, <a href="/wiki/1952_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1952 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1952</a>-<a href="/wiki/1960_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1960 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1960</a>, <a href="/wiki/1962_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1962 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1962</a>-<a href="/wiki/1965_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1965 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1965</a>, <a href="/wiki/1970_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1970 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1970</a>-<a href="/wiki/1972_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1972 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1972</a>, and <a href="/wiki/1979_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="1979 Pittsburgh Steelers season">1979</a>-<a href="/wiki/2002_Pittsburgh_Steelers_season" title="2002 Pittsburgh Steelers season">2002</a>), <b>40 Chargers</b> (1960-1962, 1964-1966, 1968-1981, 1983-1993, 1995-1997, 1999, 2002-2004, 2007-2008), <b>38 Bills</b> (<a href="/wiki/1960_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1960 Buffalo Bills season">1960</a>-<a href="/wiki/1966_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1966 Buffalo Bills season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1968 Buffalo Bills season">1968</a>-<a href="/wiki/1972_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1972 Buffalo Bills season">1972</a>, <a href="/wiki/1975_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1975 Buffalo Bills season">1975</a>-<a href="/wiki/1979_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1979 Buffalo Bills season">1979</a>, <a href="/wiki/1981_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1981 Buffalo Bills season">1981</a>, <a href="/wiki/1983_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1983 Buffalo Bills season">1983</a>-<a href="/wiki/1988_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1988 Buffalo Bills season">1988</a>, <a href="/wiki/1990_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1990 Buffalo Bills season">1990</a>, <a href="/wiki/1992_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1992 Buffalo Bills season">1992</a>, <a href="/wiki/1996_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="1996 Buffalo Bills season">1996</a>-<a href="/wiki/2000_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="2000 Buffalo Bills season">2000</a>, <a href="/wiki/2002_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="2002 Buffalo Bills season">2002</a>-<a href="/wiki/2006_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="2006 Buffalo Bills season">2006</a>, <a href="/wiki/2008_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="2008 Buffalo Bills season">2008</a>-<a href="/wiki/2009_Buffalo_Bills_season" title="2009 Buffalo Bills season">2009</a>), <b>38 Raiders</b> (<a href="/wiki/1960_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="1960 Oakland Raiders season">1960</a>-<a href="/wiki/1962_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="1962 Oakland Raiders season">1962</a>, <a href="/wiki/1964_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="1964 Oakland Raiders season">1964</a>-<a href="/wiki/1969_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="1969 Oakland Raiders season">1969</a>, <a href="/wiki/1971_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="1971 Oakland Raiders season">1971</a>-<a href="/wiki/1974_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="1974 Oakland Raiders season">1974</a>, <a href="/wiki/1977_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="1977 Oakland Raiders season">1977</a>-<a href="/wiki/1978_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="1978 Oakland Raiders season">1978</a>, <a href="/wiki/1984_Los_Angeles_Raiders_season" title="1984 Los Angeles Raiders season">1984</a>-<a href="/wiki/1986_Los_Angeles_Raiders_season" title="1986 Los Angeles Raiders season">1986</a>, <a href="/wiki/1988_Los_Angeles_Raiders_season" title="1988 Los Angeles Raiders season">1988</a>-<a href="/wiki/2007_Oakland_Raiders_season" title="2007 Oakland Raiders season">2007</a>), <b>36 Dolphins</b> (<a href="/wiki/1966_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="1966 Miami Dolphins season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="1968 Miami Dolphins season">1968</a>-<a href="/wiki/1971_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="1971 Miami Dolphins season">1971</a>, 1973, 1976-1977, <a href="/wiki/1980_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="1980 Miami Dolphins season">1980</a>-<a href="/wiki/1997_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="1997 Miami Dolphins season">1997</a>, <a href="/wiki/1999_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="1999 Miami Dolphins season">1999</a>-<a href="/wiki/2000_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="2000 Miami Dolphins season">2000</a>, <a href="/wiki/2002_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="2002 Miami Dolphins season">2002</a>-<a href="/wiki/2007_Miami_Dolphins_season" title="2007 Miami Dolphins season">2007</a>), <b>33 Saints</b> (<a href="/wiki/1969_New_Orleans_Saints_season" title="1969 New Orleans Saints season">1969</a>-<a href="/wiki/1974_New_Orleans_Saints_season" title="1974 New Orleans Saints season">1974</a>, 1976-1979, 1981-1989, 1991-1997, 2000-2005, 2007), <b>33 49ers</b> (<a href="/wiki/1946_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="1946 San Francisco 49ers season">1946</a>-<a href="/wiki/1962_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="1962 San Francisco 49ers season">1962</a>, <a href="/wiki/1964_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="1964 San Francisco 49ers season">1964</a>, <a href="/wiki/1966_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="1966 San Francisco 49ers season">1966</a>, <a href="/wiki/1968_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="1968 San Francisco 49ers season">1968</a>, <a href="/wiki/1971_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="1971 San Francisco 49ers season">1971</a>-<a href="/wiki/1980_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="1980 San Francisco 49ers season">1980</a>, <a href="/wiki/1982_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="1982 San Francisco 49ers season">1982</a>, <a href="/wiki/2004_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="2004 San Francisco 49ers season">2004</a>, <a href="/wiki/2007_San_Francisco_49ers_season" title="2007 San Francisco 49ers season">2007</a>), <b>31 Oilers/Titans</b> (1961-1966, 1968-1971, 1974-1977, 1979, 1981-1994, 1996-1997), and <b>30 Cowboys</b> (1961-1966, 1968, 1972-1976, 1978-1981, 1987-1991, 1998-2004, 2006, 2008), <b>25 Bengals</b> (<a href="/wiki/1968_Cincinnati_Bengals_season" title="1968 Cincinnati Bengals season">1968</a>, <a href="/wiki/1979_Cincinnati_Bengals_season" title="1979 Cincinnati Bengals season">1979</a>-<a href="/wiki/1987_Cincinnati_Bengals_season" title="1987 Cincinnati Bengals season">1987</a>, <a href="/wiki/1989_Cincinnati_Bengals_season" title="1989 Cincinnati Bengals season">1989</a>-1992, 1996-<a href="/wiki/2003_Cincinnati_Bengals_season" title="2003 Cincinnati Bengals season">2003</a>, <a href="/wiki/2007_Cincinnati_Bengals_season" title="2007 Cincinnati Bengals season">2007</a>-<a href="/wiki/2009_Cincinnati_Bengals_season" title="2009 Cincinnati Bengals season">2009</a>), <b>20 Falcons</b> (<a href="/wiki/1966_Atlanta_Falcons_season" title="1966 Atlanta Falcons season">1966</a>, 1968-1972, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1987-1989, 1995, 1999, 2002-2003, 2007-2009, <b>15 Dodgers</b> (<a href="/wiki/1930_Brooklyn_Dodgers_(NFL)_season" title="1930 Brooklyn Dodgers (NFL) season">1930</a>-<a href="/wiki/1944_Brooklyn_Tigers_season" title="1944 Brooklyn Tigers season">1944</a>), <b>9 Yellow Jackets</b> (<a href="/wiki/1923_Frankford_Yellow_Jackets_season" title="1923 Frankford Yellow Jackets season">1923</a>-<a href="/wiki/1931_Frankford_Yellow_Jackets_season" title="1931 Frankford Yellow Jackets season">1931</a>), <b>8 Independents</b> (<a href="/wiki/1920_Rock_Island_Independents_season" title="1920 Rock Island Independents season">1920</a>-<a href="/wiki/1927_Rock_Island_Independents_season" title="1927 Rock Island Independents season">1927</a>), <b>7 Steam Roller</b> (<a href="/wiki/1925_Providence_Steam_Roller_season" title="1925 Providence Steam Roller season">1925</a>-<a href="/wiki/1931_Providence_Steam_Roller_season" title="1931 Providence Steam Roller season">1931</a>), <b>6 Pros</b> (<a href="/wiki/1921_Akron_Pros_season" title="1921 Akron Pros season">1921</a>-<a href="/wiki/1926_Akron_Indians_season" title="1926 Akron Indians season">1927</a>), <b>6 Red Jackets</b> (<a href="/wiki/1921_Minneapolis_Marines_season" title="1921 Minneapolis Marines season">1921</a>-<a href="/wiki/1924_Minneapolis_Marines_season" title="1924 Minneapolis Marines season">1924</a>, <a href="/wiki/1929_Minneapolis_Red_Jackets_season" title="1929 Minneapolis Red Jackets season">1929</a>-<a href="/wiki/1930_Minneapolis_Red_Jackets_season" title="1930 Minneapolis Red Jackets season">1930</a>), <b>4 Stapletons</b> (<a href="/wiki/1929_Staten_Island_Stapletons_season" title="1929 Staten Island Stapletons season">1929</a>-<a href="/wiki/1932_Staten_Island_Stapletons_season" title="1932 Staten Island Stapletons season">1932</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-11T17:53:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:53, 11 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-11T17:53:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-11T17:53:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:58:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T17:53:00.000Z"></span>I didn't request you produce evidence of non-compliance with our project documentation, but thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:UW_Dawgs" title="User:UW Dawgs">UW Dawgs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:UW_Dawgs" title="User talk:UW Dawgs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:58:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T17:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:58, 11 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:58:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T17:53:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-03-11T17:58:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T17:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theknightswhosay-2017-03-30T21:38:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"></span>It looks like a slightly different conversation to me. I would agree that prose should be winning score first. A 23-7 result, for instance, is either a 23-7 win or a 23-7 loss. You don't change the order. However, I believe that if we're making a chart of a given team's season, that team's score should go first every time. This would be similar logic to standings, which always show points for the team in that row first even if collective opponents have scored more points. <a href="/wiki/User:Theknightswhosay" title="User:Theknightswhosay">Theknightswhosay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theknightswhosay" title="User talk:Theknightswhosay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Theknightswhosay-2017-03-30T21:38:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 30 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theknightswhosay-2017-03-30T21:38:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theknightswhosay-2017-03-30T21:38:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-03-11T16:34:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jonathan_Willard" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jonathan_Willard-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Jonathan_Willard-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z"></span>Jonathan Willard<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Jonathan_Willard-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CNMall41-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z-Jonathan_Willard"></span>Created this draft based on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:REQ" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:REQ">WP:REQ</a> but being that he was only in the NFL one season, was unsure how notability would be viewed by the community. Would love some input from this project if possible. Page is <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:CNMall41/Jonathan_Willard&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:CNMall41/Jonathan Willard (page does not exist)">here</a>. Feel free to make any changes if you feel necessary. --<a href="/wiki/User:CNMall41" title="User:CNMall41">CNMall41</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CNMall41" title="User talk:CNMall41">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-CNMall41-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z-Jonathan_Willard" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:38, 30 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CNMall41-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z-Jonathan_Willard"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CNMall41-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z-Jonathan_Willard"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-31T04:23:00.000Z-CNMall41-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:CNMall41" title="User:CNMall41">CNMall41</a>:</span>, <s>first use {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography">Infobox NFL biography</a>}} and fill it out properly, secondly and most importantly did he play in at least <i>one regular season game</i>? If not, then no, he would fail GNG.</s> He would fail notability as he never played in a single regular season game. But, if he played in the CFL or AFL, then he would qualify, <b>if</b> they were regular season games. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-31T04:23:00.000Z-CNMall41-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:23, 31 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-31T04:23:00.000Z-CNMall41-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-31T04:23:00.000Z-CNMall41-2017-03-30T19:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players" data-mw-thread-id="h-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"></span>See also: List of American Football League players<span data-mw-comment-end="h-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players"></span>In the early days of Wikipedia, when man and the dodo bird coexisted, a "See also" section with a link to <a href="/wiki/List_of_American_Football_League_players" title="List of American Football League players">List of American Football League players</a> was added to the articles of every player that ever played a snap in the AFL. "See also" sections are largely based on editorial judgement, but they should contain links to tangentially-related topics. There were over a thousand people who played in the AFL; I don't think most of them can be considered tangentially related to one another just by that criteria. It basically serves the same function as <a href="/wiki/Category:American_Football_League_players" title="Category:American Football League players">Category:American Football League players</a> (or it will soon). See <a href="/wiki/Roger_Kochman" title="Roger Kochman">Roger Kochman</a>, <a href="/wiki/Pat_Holmes" title="Pat Holmes">Pat Holmes</a>, <a href="/wiki/Harry_Schuh" title="Harry Schuh">Harry Schuh</a>. I think we should eliminate these sections. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:49, 22 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z-See_also:_List_of_American_Football_League_players"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-27T05:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"></span>I agree. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-03-27T05:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:24, 27 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-03-27T05:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-03-27T05:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-27T08:50:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"></span>Well, not all See Also sections contain just those sort of things. For example, <a href="/wiki/Kevin_Dyson" title="Kevin Dyson">Kevin Dyson</a>'s article could easily contain a See Also section with a link to the <a href="/wiki/Music_City_Miracle" title="Music City Miracle">Music City Miracle</a> article. I think the question question should be, "Should we get rid of List of American Football League players?" <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-27T08:50:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:50, 27 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-27T08:50:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-03-27T08:50:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-22T23:49:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-31T18:49:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-27T08:50:00.000Z"></span>Yes, more specifically, remove the link from the See also section if there's more than one link in said section. Otherwise remove the whole section. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-31T18:49:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-27T08:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:49, 31 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-31T18:49:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-27T08:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-03-31T18:49:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-03-27T08:50:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories" data-mw-thread-id="h-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories-2017-04-01T01:15:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories-2017-04-01T01:15:00.000Z"></span>Super Bowl sort order for categories<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories-2017-04-01T01:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jb45424-2017-04-01T01:15:00.000Z-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories"></span>I have a suggestion, not sure where to put it, so I'll try it here... </p><p>On the individual Super Bowl pages (i.e. <a href="/wiki/Super_Bowl_IV" title="Super Bowl IV">Super Bowl IV</a>), the Category designation for <a href="/wiki/Category:Super_Bowl" title="Category:Super Bowl">Category:Super Bowl</a> is listed as "Super Bowl 004" so as to ensure the proper sort order of the roman numerals. (Note: I appreciate the foresight in avoiding the Y2K problem in 2066.) However, on the category pages for the participating teams, as well as for the host city, the sort order is still not correct. It seems to me it would be optimal to just set the default sort order and be done with it. (Although there could be a reason I am not considering as to as why the default sort order should not be set. In which case my suggestion would be to set the sort order individually for each of the teams as well as the host city.) Maybe there is some kind of script which could be run to make these updates? Thank you for your consideration.<a href="/wiki/User:Jb45424" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jb45424">Jb45424</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jb45424" title="User talk:Jb45424">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jb45424-2017-04-01T01:15:00.000Z-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:15, 1 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jb45424-2017-04-01T01:15:00.000Z-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jb45424-2017-04-01T01:15:00.000Z-Super_Bowl_sort_order_for_categories"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="You're_invited..." data-mw-thread-id="h-You're_invited...-2017-04-01T06:01:00.000Z"><span id="You.27re_invited..."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-You're_invited...-2017-04-01T06:01:00.000Z"></span>You're invited...<span data-mw-comment-end="h-You're_invited...-2017-04-01T06:01:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Corkythehornetfan-2017-04-01T06:01:00.000Z-You're_invited..."></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_information_vote.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="information" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/18px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="19" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/27px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8c/Symbol_information_vote.svg/36px-Symbol_information_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span><b> Note:</b> You are invited to join the discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_football#Navigation_boxes_in_coaching_articles_(again)" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#Navigation boxes in coaching articles (again)</a>, which involves articles in your WikiProject, regarding the issue of whether or not the navboxes in coaching articles should be collapsed or stay as is. Please comment there and not here. Thanks, <span style="background:black; color:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid black">Corkythe</span><span style="background:#BB8D0A; color:#FFFFFF; border:1px solid black"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Corkythehornetfan" title="User talk:Corkythehornetfan"><span style="color:white">hornetfan</span></a></span> (ping me) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Corkythehornetfan-2017-04-01T06:01:00.000Z-You're_invited..." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:01, 1 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Corkythehornetfan-2017-04-01T06:01:00.000Z-You're_invited..."></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Corkythehornetfan-2017-04-01T06:01:00.000Z-You're_invited..."></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox" data-mw-thread-id="h-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z"><span id="Nearly_3.2C000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z"></span>Nearly 3,000 player pages using wrong infobox<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox"></span>A few months ago, Infobox gridiron football player was moved to <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_CFL_biography" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Infobox CFL biography">Template:Infobox CFL biography</a>, since that infobox should <i>only</i> be used for current and former CFL players. <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13">BU Rob</a> worked some magic and determined we currently have <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://petscan.wmflabs.org/?language=en&project=wikipedia&categories=National%20Football%20League%20players%20by%20team%7C5&negcats=Canadian%20Football%20League%20players%20by%20team%7C2&ns%5B0%5D=1&templates_yes=Infobox%20gridiron%20football%20person&interface_language=en&active_tab=&doit=">nearly 3,000</a> pages using this infobox that never played a snap in the CFL (for example, <a href="/wiki/Marion_Motley" title="Marion Motley">Marion Motley</a> and <a href="/wiki/George_Halas" title="George Halas">George Halas</a>). If someone could come up with a way to automatically/semi-automatically convert these to <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography">Template:Infobox NFL biography</a> that'd be swell. Otherwise we'll have to convert them all manually and that's not fun. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 4 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>:</span> I really want to stress this is <i>not</i> a good use of time. The reality is that what infobox an article uses only matters to the extent that the infobox can display relevant information. I use <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_gridiron_football_player&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Infobox gridiron football player (page does not exist)">Infobox gridiron football player</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> for everything because I primarily handle CFL biographies. I'm annoyed by plenty of things on Wikipedia, but I think <i>nothing</i> has annoyed me more than the couple times an editor has come along and changed the infobox to a substantial article I created to a different infobox I'm unfamiliar with. If you do a lot of work on a particular article and want to convert it <i>or</i> if you need to make a change for different functionality, by all means, go ahead. But a systematic change of 3,000 articles is unproductive, unnecessary, and likely to alienate some of the few gridiron football content creators we have left. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:01, 4 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-04T21:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T00:09:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z"></span>While I agree manually changing all of them would probably not be worth it, I don't believe the infobox chosen for an American football player is so inconsequential it can be left to the whim of editors. The CFL biography infobox is severely limited and often inapplicable for NFL players. Not to mention reader familiarity through standardization. There's really no good reason why Halas should use a different infobox than his contemporaries such as <a href="/wiki/Curly_Lambeau" title="Curly Lambeau">Curly Lambeau</a> and <a href="/wiki/Vince_Lombardi" title="Vince Lombardi">Vince Lombardi</a>. Other than, of course, the time it would take to convert it. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T00:09:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:09, 5 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T00:09:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T00:09:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T04:44:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T00:09:00.000Z"></span>Why doesn't the CFL project use the same infobox we use? As far as I know, it handles all the same fields as the CFL one does, but looks much better with the team colors, and format. Honestly, the CFL one looks kinda amateurish (to me at least). <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T04:44:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T00:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:44, 5 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T04:44:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T00:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T04:44:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T00:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-04-05T04:48:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T04:44:00.000Z"></span>Crash Underride said it. Perhaps the CFL and NFL infoboxes should be merged into one infobox for gridiron football? <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-04-05T04:48:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T04:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:48, 5 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-04-05T04:48:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T04:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-04-05T04:48:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T04:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T05:43:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-04-05T04:48:00.000Z"></span>I wouldn't be opposed to that. That seems to be the direction we had been trending anyway; there was once several pro gridiron football infoboxes, but now we're down to just these two. It would be a massive undertaking though. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T05:43:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-04-05T04:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:43, 5 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T05:43:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-04-05T04:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T05:43:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-04-05T04:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T05:49:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T05:43:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>:</span> actually, I don't think it would be. I think all we would need to do with the NFL one (besides a neutral name change) would be to add the <i>International</i> field for players that aren't from Canada for the CFL (or America for NFL), as well as CFL stat fields. We've already got the default ones as well as ones for the Arena Football League (AFL). I think CFL team colors are already in there. The <i>CIS</i> field is already in there for Canadian schooling, so I don't think it would be too massive at all. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T05:49:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T05:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:49, 5 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T05:49:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T05:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-05T05:49:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T05:43:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:26:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z"></span>As the person actually <i>creating</i> the CFL articles, can we maybe not trample over the content creators in that area? Unless you plan to add many parameters to <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography">Infobox NFL biography</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> (import status, CIS/U Sports, numbered parameters for years/teams, numbered positions that automatically abbreviate, our all-star parameters, etc), it would be extremely off-putting to have a bunch of editors with <i>zero</i> intention of creating CFL biographies come in and decide that those who are creating them must use a different infobox. There are many aspects of the NFL biography infobox which are objectively inferior, such as the awful use of a bulleted list for player history. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:26:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:26, 5 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:26:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:26:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-04T22:01:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:28:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:26:00.000Z"></span>And yes, the merge would definitely be a massive undertaking, as converting the numbered parameters to a bulletted list wouldn't be trivial. I'm the person who actually completed most of the difficult merges of other infoboxes after they sat there for multiple <i>years</i>. Needless to say, I would not do the same for the merge being discussed. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:28:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 5 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:28:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:28:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T18:41:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:28:00.000Z"></span>Yes, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lizard_the_Wizard/sandbox&oldid=755270930">this</a> is what I had come up with. As can be seen, many of the fields aren't directly transferable. That's what would make it a massive undertaking. We've already established that just converting 3,000 of them would probably not be worth the time, much less <i>all</i> of them. I say, what's done is done; blame our Wikipedia ancestors for what we have now. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T18:41:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:41, 5 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T18:41:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T18:41:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-04-05T17:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:02:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T18:41:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13">BU Rob13</a>:</span> well in the NFL box the CIS is already in there. We could add a simple field like was done for the "off season and/or practice squad member only" field where all we have to do is enter "yes" and it will display "International". The numbered parameters for teams / years why couldn't we use {{<a href="/wiki/Template:CFL_Year" title="Template:CFL Year">CFL Year</a>}} like we do with players like <a href="/wiki/Cameron_Wake" title="Cameron Wake">Cameron Wake</a> that play in Canada and then come to the NFL? With the CFL stat fields, all that would take is just copy the code for the Arena Football League (AFL) stat fields and change the A to a a C. As for the "inferior" bulleted list for teams, I think it's better myself, it's much cleaner and sleaker. The CFL one with the box surrounding the years looks clunky. Also, don't think that I "trampled" on anyone and if I did, I apologize. Also, I <i>never</i> said I had zero intention of creating CFL related articles. I've worked on plenty, even helping <a href="/wiki/Kojo_Aidoo" title="Kojo Aidoo">one</a> (so far) reach <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GA">GA</a>. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:02:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T18:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:02, 6 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:02:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T18:41:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:02:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-05T18:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:21:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:02:00.000Z"></span>Oh, <a href="/wiki/George_Halas" title="George Halas">George Halas</a> now has the <i>proper</i> infobox. Only took 5-10 minutes, <i>if</i> that. :D <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:21:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:21, 6 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:21:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:21:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:30:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:21:00.000Z"></span>As now does <a href="/wiki/Marion_Motley" title="Marion Motley">Marion Motley</a>, even faster than Halas. (Yes, I'm bragging lol. :D) <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:30:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:30, 6 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:30:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:30:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:21:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-06T11:24:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:30:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride">Crash Underride</a>:</span> First, CFL editors don't want a different infobox, as others has some superior functionality (mainly the numbered teams/years). NFL infoboxes have an (in my opinion) horribly outdated teams/years system where you just throw everything in a bulleted list within a single parameter. Instead, the CFL infobox has parameters like playing_team1/playing_years1 ... playing_team10/playing_years10, which then creates the list. It's easier to edit and the direction that almost all sports biography infoboxes have been moving since I joined the site. Second, your infobox has an (in my opinion) inferior "highlights" parameter instead of several parameters specific to different types of awards. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a> can explain in detail what that leads to - shitty highlights sections with lots of non-notable awards and arbitrary statistical trivia. I don't want to have to clean that nonsense up in CFL articles when we already have very detailed parameters that encourage editors to put exactly what should be in the infobox in the infobox and nothing more. Third, it's just totally unnecessary. The use of a particular infobox is subject to consensus for each individual article; this was decided years ago in an ArbCom case. Converting from one infobox to another when the former infobox was fine for displaying all necessary information is not a good use of time. There's no "proper" infobox. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-06T11:24:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:24, 6 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-06T11:24:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-04-06T11:24:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-06T08:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-07T05:44:00.000Z-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox"></span> The much maligned (by me) highlights section. After nearly a year of researching and deliberating, I think I've finally got a good idea of what should and shouldn't be considered a "highlight" for an NFL player. As for the matter at hand: I'll continue to convert infoboxes of high-importance NFL figures if they appear to be using them in error (as in, the reason for its use being that it was the only infobox available back when it was added, and not due to editor preference). I suggest we discuss ways to improve <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography">Template:Infobox NFL biography</a> to eliminate the aspects that editors or readers may find off-putting. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-07T05:44:00.000Z-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:44, 7 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-07T05:44:00.000Z-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-07T05:44:00.000Z-Nearly_3,000_player_pages_using_wrong_infobox"></span> </p><dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-07T09:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-07T05:44:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>:</span> such as? As for what <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13">Rob</a> said about the bulleted list for team (seasons), I, personally at least, think it looks better. Now, if we could find a way to do it without the ugly (again, my opinion) box that the years are in in the CFL infobox, I wouldn't be opposed to the multiple fields for the NFL one, though I could see how it could be confusing over the format that's currently used. Also, the like Lizard said, the highlights section should really be clamped down on some what. The way I see it, Conference championships (professionally), Super Bowl championships, League MVPs, college awards (Rimington, Groza, Walker, Heisman, and other <i>major</i> ones), national championships, senior bowls, All-American (<a href="/wiki/Associated_Press" title="Associated Press">AP</a> and <a href="/wiki/United_Press_International" title="United Press International">UPI</a> only) all should be included. As for the All-America selection that I mentioned, minor teams, <a href="/wiki/Phil_Steele" title="Phil Steele">Phil Steele</a>, etc. shouldn't be as the only major ones that are talked about are the AP teams, and the UPI teams could just as easily <i>not</i> be included because the UPI isn't as recognizable as the AP is. Those are just some thoughts. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-07T09:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-07T05:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:43, 7 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-07T09:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-07T05:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-07T09:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-07T05:44:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign" data-mw-thread-id="h-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign-2017-04-11T22:56:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign-2017-04-11T22:56:00.000Z"></span>Reminder: Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign-2017-04-11T22:56:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-04-11T22:56:00.000Z-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign"></span>Lizard</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:MisterCake" title="User:MisterCake">Cake</a> and I have been working away on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign">Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign</a>. Roughly 40 articles have now been substantially upgraded, but there are still dozens of Hall of Famers who require a lot of work. Please check out the page and consider adopting an article ... or two ... or ... <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-04-11T22:56:00.000Z-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:56, 11 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-04-11T22:56:00.000Z-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-04-11T22:56:00.000Z-Reminder:_Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="NFL_roster_player_numbers" data-mw-thread-id="h-NFL_roster_player_numbers-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-NFL_roster_player_numbers-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z"></span>NFL roster player numbers<span data-mw-comment-end="h-NFL_roster_player_numbers-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z-NFL_roster_player_numbers"></span>There seems to be a game being played with the player numbers for players recently acquired by teams, where anonymous IPs change players to have numbers with no basis in fact. I saw this in previous years, but it seems worse this year. The numbers they are coming up with seem to come from nowhere but their own fevered imaginations. When these changes are reverted, a few days later, someone else will add numbers again - often different numbers. It's persistent and wide-spread enough (the geographic locations of the IPs are all over the world), that this clearly has some motivation behind it. Anyone know what the motivation is? Is there some fantasy game where people are gaining an advantage by getting their numbers assigned to players? <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z-NFL_roster_player_numbers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:14, 8 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z-NFL_roster_player_numbers"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z-NFL_roster_player_numbers"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-04-08T01:47:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z"></span>It's always been an issue, and I don't know a better way to prevent it besides protecting the pages, as they almost always come from unregistered IPs. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-04-08T01:47:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:47, 8 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-04-08T01:47:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-04-08T01:47:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T01:14:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-08T02:29:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-04-08T01:47:00.000Z"></span>I've just began ignoring it, although I agree it is a little strange. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-08T02:29:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-04-08T01:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 8 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-08T02:29:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-04-08T01:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-08T02:29:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-04-08T01:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T15:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-08T02:29:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, I'm not looking for a solution, I'm just trying to figure out why it's happening. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T15:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-08T02:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:20, 8 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T15:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-08T02:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T15:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-08T02:29:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-08T17:38:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T15:20:00.000Z"></span>It drives me nuts when they do that. Or (and this is a small thing) when they don't put the -- in for someone who's a free agent or hasn't been assigned a number yet. lol Like I said, it's small but drives me bonkers....I have a slight case of OCD so symmetry tends to be important too me. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-08T17:38:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T15:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:38, 8 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-08T17:38:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T15:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-04-08T17:38:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-04-08T15:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-21T03:55:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-08T17:38:00.000Z"></span>I know I'm a little late this thread but I've noticed this too it drives me nuts. I had a big battle on <a href="/wiki/C._J._Spiller" title="C. J. Spiller">C. J. Spiller</a>'s page after the Chiefs signed him. First the Chiefs website site f----ed up and added his number as 28 despite it being retired, that was a fun battle. Then people started pulling these random numbers out of no where. It finally settled down after a while.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-21T03:55:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-08T17:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:55, 21 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-21T03:55:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-08T17:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-21T03:55:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-04-08T17:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Team_history_succession" data-mw-thread-id="h-Team_history_succession-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Team_history_succession-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z"></span>Team history succession<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Team_history_succession-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JonRidinger-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z-Team_history_succession"></span>I've noticed some back-and-forth on the pages for <a href="/wiki/Los_Angeles_Rams" title="Los Angeles Rams">Los Angeles Rams</a> and <a href="/wiki/Los_Angeles_Chargers" title="Los Angeles Chargers">Los Angeles Chargers</a> in regards to listing the team histories in the team infobox. Both are obviously unusual circumstances where the teams have returned to Los Angeles, similar to the <a href="/wiki/Oakland_Raiders" title="Oakland Raiders">Oakland Raiders</a> returning to Oakland. The debate seems centered on the chronology, but more for the Chargers having just one year in LA before moving. I tend to favor simply listing them chronologically, but I've noticed the precedent has been to list the current city only once with two sets of years, such as "Oakland Raiders (1966–1981, 1995–present)". Perhaps we should separate two eras for clarity? For instance, for the Raiders, we would have: </p> <ul><li>Oakland Raiders (1966–1981)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/History_of_the_Los_Angeles_Raiders" class="mw-redirect" title="History of the Los Angeles Raiders">Los Angeles Raiders</a> (1982–1994)</li> <li><b>Oakland Raiders (1995–present)</b></li> <li>and obviously here would be the Las Vegas Raiders once that move actually happens.</li></ul> <p>I think the same could apply for the stadium mention in the infobox, i.e. list each stadium chronologically, so in the case of the Rams, the Coliseum would be mentioned twice in the appropriate order (same for the Oakland Coliseum for the Raiders). It would obviously extend the infobox, but not significantly, and would help make it a little easier visually to follow. Again, at this point it would only affect the Rams, Chargers, Raiders, and Browns (because of the official "suspended operations", 1996–1999), but something to consider. </p><p>Along those lines, it would seem in instances where teams suspended operations or temporarily merged, that those should be listed as a secondary point of whatever era that occurred in. For instance, <a href="/wiki/Pittsburgh_Steelers" title="Pittsburgh Steelers">Pittsburgh Steelers</a> would read: </p> <ul><li>Pittsburgh Pirates (1933–1939)</li> <li><b>Pittsburgh Steelers (1940–present)</b> <ul><li><i>Phil–Pitt "<a href="/wiki/Steagles" title="Steagles">Steagles</a>"</i> (1943)</li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/Card-Pitt" title="Card-Pitt">Card-Pitt</a></i> (1944)</li></ul></li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/Cleveland_Browns" title="Cleveland Browns">Cleveland Browns</a> would simply be: </p> <ul><li><b>Cleveland Browns (1946–present)</b> <ul><li><i>Suspended operations</i> (1996–1999)</li></ul></li></ul> <p>Again, something to consider. I don't have any real issues with the status quo, but obviously it's creating some slight contention. --<a href="/wiki/User:JonRidinger" title="User:JonRidinger">JonRidinger</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JonRidinger" title="User talk:JonRidinger">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-JonRidinger-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z-Team_history_succession" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:49, 23 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JonRidinger-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z-Team_history_succession"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JonRidinger-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z-Team_history_succession"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-23T04:07:00.000Z-JonRidinger-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z"></span>The last item in the list should be the current team name. It makes no sense chronologically to list something before something that happened later. So I'd favor separation of all eras, even ones in the same city. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-23T04:07:00.000Z-JonRidinger-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:07, 23 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-23T04:07:00.000Z-JonRidinger-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-04-23T04:07:00.000Z-JonRidinger-2017-04-23T03:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Pronunciations" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pronunciations-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Pronunciations-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z"></span>Pronunciations<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Pronunciations-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z-Pronunciations"></span>There were multiple players selected in the draft that have names that are difficult to pronounce. For example, from my Chiefs alone: <a href="/wiki/Tanoh_Kpassagnon" title="Tanoh Kpassagnon">Tanoh Kpassagnon</a> and <a href="/wiki/Ukeme_Eligwe" title="Ukeme Eligwe">Ukeme Eligwe</a>. Does anybody on this project know how to do the pronunciation thing, IPA I think is what its called?--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z-Pronunciations" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 29 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z-Pronunciations"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z-Pronunciations"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-04-30T16:25:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z"></span>Not sure that we have consensus to include these and I don't recall seeing any. However, they are a common component of the university's media guide. For example, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.provationsgroup.org/publications/2016-Villanova-Football-Guide/">Villanova 2016, pg 5</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:UW_Dawgs" title="User:UW Dawgs">UW Dawgs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:UW_Dawgs" title="User talk:UW Dawgs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-UW_Dawgs-2017-04-30T16:25:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:25, 30 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-04-30T16:25:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-04-30T16:25:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-04-29T23:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-30T20:42:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-04-30T16:25:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:UW_Dawgs" title="User:UW Dawgs">UW Dawgs</a>:</span> The issue for me isn't neccesarily a verification issue, Tanoh Kpassagnon the new defensive end for the Chiefs, for example, I've found pronouncations online for his name. For me the issue inputting the IPA for it. I've tried in the last and failed miserably. I do think for people hard to pronounce names like Kpassagnon (pass-en-yo), should have the pronouncation in the article. Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia and I have seen encyclopedias that use pronouncations on difficult to pronounce names.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-30T20:42:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-04-30T16:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:42, 30 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-30T20:42:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-04-30T16:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-04-30T20:42:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-04-30T16:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Draft_details" data-mw-thread-id="h-Draft_details-2017-05-02T17:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Draft_details-2017-05-02T17:17:00.000Z"></span>Draft details<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Draft_details-2017-05-02T17:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-05-02T17:17:00.000Z-Draft_details"></span>I have proposed adding several columns to <a href="/wiki/List_of_NFL_drafts" title="List of NFL drafts">List of NFL drafts</a>. Please comment at <a href="/wiki/Talk:List_of_NFL_drafts#Additional_columns" title="Talk:List of NFL drafts">Talk:List of NFL drafts#Additional columns</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-05-02T17:17:00.000Z-Draft_details" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:17, 2 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-05-02T17:17:00.000Z-Draft_details"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-05-02T17:17:00.000Z-Draft_details"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="RFC_on_sports_notability" data-mw-thread-id="h-RFC_on_sports_notability-2017-05-05T23:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-RFC_on_sports_notability-2017-05-05T23:08:00.000Z"></span>RFC on sports notability<span data-mw-comment-end="h-RFC_on_sports_notability-2017-05-05T23:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Primefac-2017-05-05T23:08:00.000Z-RFC_on_sports_notability"></span>An RFC has recently been started regarding a potential change to the notability guidelines for sportspeople. Please <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Global_consensus_check:Sports_notability_guideline" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Global consensus check:Sports notability guideline">join in the conversation</a>. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Primefac" title="User:Primefac">Primefac</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Primefac" title="User talk:Primefac">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Primefac-2017-05-05T23:08:00.000Z-RFC_on_sports_notability" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 5 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Primefac-2017-05-05T23:08:00.000Z-RFC_on_sports_notability"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Primefac-2017-05-05T23:08:00.000Z-RFC_on_sports_notability"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Meaning_of_anchor" data-mw-thread-id="h-Meaning_of_anchor-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Meaning_of_anchor-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z"></span>Meaning of anchor<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Meaning_of_anchor-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z-Meaning_of_anchor"></span>I was putting together next season's playoff page (currently hidden), and I looked through past articles and found this template <span class="anchor" id="AFC_Championship"></span> (using that as an example). Is there any importance to this template? <a href="/wiki/User:Zacchaeusbarbour" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Zacchaeusbarbour">Z.I. Barbour</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zacchaeusbarbour" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Zacchaeusbarbour">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z-Meaning_of_anchor" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:37, 6 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z-Meaning_of_anchor"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z-Meaning_of_anchor"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-06T01:48:00.000Z-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z"></span>It ensures that a wikilink to that section will remain even if the section is renamed. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-06T01:48:00.000Z-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 6 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-06T01:48:00.000Z-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-06T01:48:00.000Z-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-05-06T01:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Birthplace_vs._hometown" data-mw-thread-id="h-Birthplace_vs._hometown-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Birthplace_vs._hometown-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z"></span>Birthplace vs. hometown<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Birthplace_vs._hometown-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z-Birthplace_vs._hometown"></span>So there is a conflict going on on <a href="/wiki/Jonathan_Allen" title="Jonathan Allen">Jonathan Allen</a>'s article, with people stating he was born in <a href="/wiki/Anniston,_Alabama" title="Anniston, Alabama">Anniston, Alabama</a>, but every football profile and both draft networks (NFL Network and ESPN) list his hometown of <a href="/wiki/Leesburg,_Virginia" title="Leesburg, Virginia">Leesburg, Virginia</a> instead. So what I'm asking is if we should replace birthplace (where birth was given) in the infobox with hometown (where they grew up, attended school, and made a name for themselves), which seems to be the more important of the two when talking strictly about football players. Thoughts? ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z-Birthplace_vs._hometown" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:02, 2 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z-Birthplace_vs._hometown"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z-Birthplace_vs._hometown"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:21:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z"></span>No. Birth place should reflect place of birth. Hometown will generally be reflected in the high school field of the infobox and should be made clear in the body of the article. <dl><dd>You just removed the entire thing from the infobox, which I don't see as helpful at all. And I wasn't asking for the current policy, but rather a suggestion to change it, as birthplace isn't as important as hometown is for NFL players, per my original post. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:21:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:21, 2 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:21:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:21:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:29:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:21:00.000Z"></span>I've just added a source establishing that Allen's place of birth is Anniston, Alabama. Place of birth is a standard field for all biography infoboxes across wikipedia and the field should be populated with nothing other than place of birth. If you think a hometown field should be added Infobox NFL biography, you should suggest that, although I think it may be somewhat redundant to the high school field. <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:29:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:29, 2 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:29:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:29:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:21:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:29:00.000Z"></span>A high school doesn't establish a hometown, just look at Allen's, where the school he attended was in Ashburn, while his given hometown was Leesburg. I just don't see how relevant a birthplace is to an NFL player, since none of his player profiles, scouting reports, and majority of media coverage mention it over his hometown. Birthplace is the one that should be mentioned in prose, with hometown in the infobox. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:33, 2 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:29:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:37:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z"></span>A similar argument for the importance of hometown over birth place could be made for just about anyone. It's not an NFL player-specific thing. What you want requires changing the fields in the infobox. Please start a discussion about this if that's something you want to pursue. <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:37:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:37, 2 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:37:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-05-02T16:37:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-05-02T16:45:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z"></span>His birthplace is <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/jonathanallen/2557844/profile">listed at NFL.com</a>. Besides, hometown gets to be ambiguous for people that move around a lot.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-05-02T16:45:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:45, 2 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-05-02T16:45:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-05-02T16:45:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-02T16:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-05-02T17:42:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-05-02T16:45:00.000Z"></span>Agree with both Jweiss and Bagumba. Usage of place of birth is project-wide and standard biographical detail. Even in the sports realm, sites like baseball-reference.com and pro-football-reference.com use place of birth. And "hometown" is inherently ambiguous. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-05-02T17:42:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-05-02T16:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:42, 2 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-05-02T17:42:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-05-02T16:45:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-05-02T17:42:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-05-02T16:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-05-14T00:36:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-05-02T17:42:00.000Z"></span>Regarding something <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93">User:Dissident93</a> said: "...birthplace isn't as important as hometown is for NFL players...", yeah, that's not true. Look at <a href="/wiki/Larry_Allen" title="Larry Allen">Larry Allen</a> who attended four high schools in four years. That's also like saying that their birthdate isn't important. Birthplace <i>is</i> important. As for hometown being represented by the high school, that's not always the case. For example, the high school I went to was in a community about 20 minutes away from where I live, and the community the school is located in is <i>not</i> my hometown. (For the record, I'm using Larry Allen and myself as examples, not that <i>all</i> cases are exactly the same.) <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-05-14T00:36:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-05-02T17:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:36, 14 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-05-14T00:36:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-05-02T17:42:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-05-14T00:36:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-05-02T17:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:41:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-05-14T00:36:00.000Z"></span>I wasn't arguing that place of birth doesn't matter, but rather hometown can been seen as just as important or even moreso, as was the case with Johnathan Allen, with multiple articles being written about his ties to the DMV area and growing up a Redskins fan, despite him being born in Alabama and living in other states as well. That being said, I don't think this is the case with the majority of NFL players, with birthplace and hometown being the same, and the issue on Allen's page was fixed shortly after making this post. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:41:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-05-14T00:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:41, 14 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:41:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-05-14T00:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:41:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-05-14T00:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span>Format tweaks to the active roster templates<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates"></span>Recently I adjusted the NFL Roster templates (e.g. <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Atlanta_Falcons_roster_navbox" title="Template:Atlanta Falcons roster navbox">Atlanta Falcons roster navbox</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>) to make better use of the horizontal space by folding the text "Active roster" over two lines. <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93">User:Dissident93</a> has reverted these changes (without any discussion with me first). I've explained my reasoning; his objection seems to combine a failure to understand the purpose of the change with a claim that similar changes have been rejected before, but without providing any diffs to support this claim. (Discussion <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Colonies_Chris#Adding_breaks_to_the_active_roster">here</a>). Does anyone have any objections to this minor format improvement? <a href="/wiki/User:Colonies_Chris" title="User:Colonies Chris">Colonies Chris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colonies_Chris" title="User talk:Colonies Chris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:13, 13 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z-Format_tweaks_to_the_active_roster_templates"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-05-13T14:17:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span>Generally, putting line breaks in the middle of fields of templates isn't a good idea - we run into this mostly with infoboxes, where people find that on their particular screen things look better with a line break in a particular position. That often makes it screw up on other displays. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-05-13T14:17:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:17, 13 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-05-13T14:17:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-05-13T14:17:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T16:14:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-05-13T14:17:00.000Z"></span>In cases such as these templates, where the number of items on the right indubitably requires more than a single line no matter what imaginable screen size any reader may have, splitting a long heading on the left makes for more space where it is needed, on the right, and so makes viewing the infobox easier for everyone, particularly those using smaller screens. This is standard practice in many templates, including NFL-related ones. For example, see <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:NFL_seasons" title="Template:NFL seasons">NFL seasons</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> or <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Defunct_NFL_stadiums" title="Template:Defunct NFL stadiums">Defunct NFL stadiums</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>; also <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:MLB_All-Time_rosters" title="Template:MLB All-Time rosters">MLB All-Time rosters</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> or <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Epic" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Epic">Epic</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>. <a href="/wiki/User:Colonies_Chris" title="User:Colonies Chris">Colonies Chris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colonies_Chris" title="User talk:Colonies Chris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T16:14:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-05-13T14:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:14, 13 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T16:14:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-05-13T14:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T16:14:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-05-13T14:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:14:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T16:14:00.000Z"></span>Just because some other templates use it (to varying degrees of necessity) doesn't mean we have to do it here, as I still fail to see how "Active roster" is something we have to break into two lines for easier reading (when it fits on a single line with ample space, at least for me). Simply leave it as status quo for now, unless more happen to agree with you. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:14:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T16:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:14, 14 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:14:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T16:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:14:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T16:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-14T09:25:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:14:00.000Z"></span>I don't see that we can have a productive discussion when you are clearly misunderstanding what I'm trying to achieve. I'll try once again to explain. Of course "Active roster" <i>can</i> fit on a single line - that's not the point. As described above, splitting it over two lines allows the left hand column to be narrower, which leaves more room for the links on the right hand side of the box, which therefore requires fewer horizontal lines. It's about making better use of the limited space available in a navbox. Go and look at the two versions of those templates, and you'll see what I mean. Or imagine how a template such as <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:NFL_seasons" title="Template:NFL seasons">NFL seasons</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> would look if the left-column headings were not folded over two lines. <a href="/wiki/User:Colonies_Chris" title="User:Colonies Chris">Colonies Chris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colonies_Chris" title="User talk:Colonies Chris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-14T09:25:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:25, 14 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-14T09:25:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-14T09:25:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-14T00:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T20:06:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-14T09:25:00.000Z"></span>This is something that only you seem to prefer, as nobody else prior to this has argued in favor of something like this, nor has anybody, up until now, responded to this post in favor of it. If changes have to be made, I'd rather just remove "roster" from the title, instead of the way you are trying to propose. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T20:06:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-14T09:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:06, 14 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T20:06:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-14T09:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-05-14T20:06:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-14T09:25:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-14T20:06:00.000Z"></span>Your entire objection seems to be that no-one has proposed this before. Perhaps with these specific templates that's the case. But I've given you plenty of examples where this approach is used. It's not some weird idea I've just made up; it's commonplace. <a href="/wiki/User:Colonies_Chris" title="User:Colonies Chris">Colonies Chris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colonies_Chris" title="User talk:Colonies Chris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-14T20:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 15 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-14T20:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-05-14T20:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-05-14T23:52:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span>Oppose the new attempt to hardcode formatting. Let the browser do its job. <a href="/wiki/User:UW_Dawgs" title="User:UW Dawgs">UW Dawgs</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:UW_Dawgs" title="User talk:UW Dawgs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-UW_Dawgs-2017-05-14T23:52:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:52, 14 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-05-14T23:52:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-UW_Dawgs-2017-05-14T23:52:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-05-14T23:52:00.000Z"></span>Normally that's a good principle. But the browser will not fold the text on the left unless we explicitly tell it to do so. If we choose to waste space, the browser doesn't know any better. This tweak is only applicable, as I've said above, where the list on the right is unquestionably longer than a single line; that means that the change has no downside; a later version of a browser will not be bothered by it, or render the page in some strange way. <a href="/wiki/User:Colonies_Chris" title="User:Colonies Chris">Colonies Chris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colonies_Chris" title="User talk:Colonies Chris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-05-14T23:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 15 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-05-14T23:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-UW_Dawgs-2017-05-14T23:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-15T00:26:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span>No opinion either way, since I think it's pretty minor, although I do see the benefits of breaking into 2 lines here. But I don't think it's worth arguing over since navboxes are used way less than we like to think they are. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-15T00:26:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:26, 15 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-15T00:26:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-15T00:26:00.000Z-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-13T10:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-15T00:26:00.000Z"></span>I'm amazed that there is so much argument over it here; this formatting tweak is already used in many templates, and no-one has objected to it before. In other contexts it's been entirely uncontroversial for years. <a href="/wiki/User:Colonies_Chris" title="User:Colonies Chris">Colonies Chris</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Colonies_Chris" title="User talk:Colonies Chris">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-15T00:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 15 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-15T00:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Colonies_Chris-2017-05-15T14:39:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-15T00:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Popular_pages_report" data-mw-thread-id="h-Popular_pages_report"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Popular_pages_report"></span>Popular pages report<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Popular_pages_report"></span></h2></div> <p>We – <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech" class="extiw" title="m:Community Tech">Community Tech</a> – are happy to announce that the <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech/Popular_pages_bot" class="extiw" title="m:Community Tech/Popular pages bot">Popular pages bot</a> is back up-and-running (after a one year hiatus)! You're receiving this message because your WikiProject or task force is signed up to receive the popular pages report. Every month, <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Community_Tech_bot">Community Tech bot</a></span> will post at <a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15/Popular_pages&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 15/Popular pages (page does not exist)">Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Archive 15/Popular pages</a> with a list of the most-viewed pages over the previous month that are within the scope of WikiProject National Football League. </p><p>We've made some enhancements to the original report. Here's what's new: </p> <ul><li>The pageview data includes both desktop and mobile data.</li> <li>The report will include a link to the <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/">pageviews tool</a> for each article, to dig deeper into any surprises or anomalies.</li> <li>The report will include the total pageviews for the entire project (including redirects).</li></ul> <p>We're grateful to <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr.Z-man">Mr.Z-man</a></span> for his original <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mr.Z-bot">Mr.Z-bot</a></span>, and we wish his bot a happy robot retirement. Just as before, we hope the popular pages reports will aid you in understanding the reach of WikiProject National Football League, and what articles may be deserving of more attention. If you have any questions or concerns please contact us at <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Community_Tech_bot" class="extiw" title="m:User talk:Community Tech bot">m:User talk:Community Tech bot</a>. </p><p>Warm regards, <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Community_Tech" class="extiw" title="m:Community Tech">the Community Tech Team</a> 17:16, 17 May 2017 (UTC) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Automated_assessment_of_article_importance" data-mw-thread-id="h-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z"></span>Automated assessment of article importance<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nettrom-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance"></span>Hello everyone! I'm currently working on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Automated_classification_of_article_importance" class="extiw" title="meta:Research:Automated classification of article importance">a project</a> studying how to do automatic classification of article importance. As part of that project, I've done some analysis of articles within the scope of WikiProject National Football League and built a model to predict article importance. Started <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Assessment#Automated_assessment_of_article_importance" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Football League/Assessment">a thread over on the assessment page</a> with more information and a link to <a href="/wiki/User:SuggestBot/WikiProject_National_Football_League#Candidates_for_re-rating" title="User:SuggestBot/WikiProject National Football League">our predictions</a> (as well as a few other types of articles that might need an updated importance rating). Since I hadn't seen any comments over the past week, I thought I'd get in touch in here as well, would appreciate your thoughts and comments! Regards, <a href="/wiki/User:Nettrom" title="User:Nettrom">Nettrom</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nettrom" title="User talk:Nettrom">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Nettrom-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:40, 17 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nettrom-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nettrom-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z-Automated_assessment_of_article_importance"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-17T23:57:00.000Z-Nettrom-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z"></span>I'll take a look at the candidates for re-rating page and make some notes. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-17T23:57:00.000Z-Nettrom-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:57, 17 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-17T23:57:00.000Z-Nettrom-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-17T23:57:00.000Z-Nettrom-2017-05-17T23:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nettrom-2017-05-18T23:05:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-17T23:57:00.000Z"></span>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a>, thank you so much for taking the time to leave us feedback, I greatly appreciate it! Your notes about why specific articles are rated a particular way are particularly helpful. When I first started analyzing WP:NFL's articles I noticed the detailed description of how biographies are rated and was concerned that our model might not pick those up. At the same time, during testing I found that generally our model performs really well on WP:NFL's articles. I went through all your comments and looked up how the predicted Top-importance articles compare when it comes to our measurements, as well as how our model works, finding that many of the articles are on the boundary between Top- and High-importance. But, we're also not catching the details in player's careers, thus we end up getting these wrong.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I was happy to see that the ratings for a couple of the articles could be updated, and that there was one that was outside the scope of the project. While working on my data analysis I also found a couple of Top-importance articles that seemed terribly out of place (both of them were predicted as Low-importance by our model), but I then found out you'd already been around to fix those.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>The challenge of handling certain types of articles within WP:NFL (e.g. all seasons are High-importance) is something we've come across in other projects as well, where we've so far had success with using data from Wikidata to help identify those types of articles. I'll keep this in mind as we continue working on this project and how to improve our predictions. Thanks again so much for your very helpful feedback! Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Nettrom" title="User:Nettrom">Nettrom</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nettrom" title="User talk:Nettrom">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Nettrom-2017-05-18T23:05:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-17T23:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:05, 18 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nettrom-2017-05-18T23:05:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-17T23:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nettrom-2017-05-18T23:05:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-17T23:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="References_in_Infobox" data-mw-thread-id="h-References_in_Infobox-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-References_in_Infobox-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z"></span>References in Infobox<span data-mw-comment-end="h-References_in_Infobox-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jb45424-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z-References_in_Infobox"></span>Looking for some guidance. When creating stubs for NFL players, are the NFL.com and PFR.com references in the Infobox sufficient, or do I need to also add inline citations to the same sources? Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Jb45424" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jb45424">Jb45424</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jb45424" title="User talk:Jb45424">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jb45424-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z-References_in_Infobox" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:51, 30 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jb45424-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z-References_in_Infobox"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jb45424-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z-References_in_Infobox"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jb45424-2017-05-30T04:01:00.000Z-Jb45424-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z"></span>Based on my interpretation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MINREF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MINREF">WP:MINREF</a> & <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GENREF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GENREF">WP:GENREF</a> I believe the Infobox to be sufficient, but would appreciate other opinions. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Jb45424" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jb45424">Jb45424</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jb45424" title="User talk:Jb45424">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jb45424-2017-05-30T04:01:00.000Z-Jb45424-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:01, 30 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jb45424-2017-05-30T04:01:00.000Z-Jb45424-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jb45424-2017-05-30T04:01:00.000Z-Jb45424-2017-05-30T03:51:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-05-30T04:22:00.000Z-Jb45424-2017-05-30T04:01:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Jb45424" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jb45424">Jb45424</a>:</span> Technically sufficient to avoid <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPPROD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPPROD">WP:BLPPROD</a>. Grossly insufficient to develop a well-rounded article. Why create stubs when you could flesh things out more? If you lack references to flesh out the stubs you're creating, please check out <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RX">WP:RX</a>. We can help you get sources. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-05-30T04:22:00.000Z-Jb45424-2017-05-30T04:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:22, 30 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-05-30T04:22:00.000Z-Jb45424-2017-05-30T04:01:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-05-30T04:22:00.000Z-Jb45424-2017-05-30T04:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas" data-mw-thread-id="h-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z"></span>Requesting comments on Talk:Johnny Unitas<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas"></span>This is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LAME">lame</a> battle that's been raging for a long time, so let's get some wider input please: <a href="/wiki/Talk:Johnny_Unitas#Inclusion_of_Baltimore_Ravens_Ring_of_Honor_in_infobox" title="Talk:Johnny Unitas">Talk:Johnny Unitas#Inclusion of Baltimore Ravens Ring of Honor in infobox</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:58, 27 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z-Requesting_comments_on_Talk:Johnny_Unitas"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-06T22:39:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z"></span>Still need more input, edit warring continues. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-06T22:39:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:39, 6 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-06T22:39:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-06T22:39:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-05-27T21:58:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="User:Mkelley78" data-mw-thread-id="h-User:Mkelley78-2017-05-30T19:32:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-User:Mkelley78-2017-05-30T19:32:00.000Z"></span>User:Mkelley78<span data-mw-comment-end="h-User:Mkelley78-2017-05-30T19:32:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mkelley78&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mkelley78 (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yankees10-2017-05-30T19:32:00.000Z-User:Mkelley78"></span>Mkelley78</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mkelley78" title="User talk:Mkelley78">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mkelley78" title="Special:Contributions/Mkelley78">contribs</a>) is insisting on adding random "advanced stats" to numerous player articles using the website <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.playerprofiler.com/">Player Profiler</a> as their source, and I want to know what others think of this. First off, I'm not even sure the source is reliable. It seems to me to be just a big knockoff of the more well-known and reliable <a href="/wiki/Pro_Football_Focus" title="Pro Football Focus">Pro Football Focus</a>. There's also more than likely a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest">conflict of interest</a> with this user and the site as pretty much every edit this user has made involves adding links to it in articles. Second, i'm not sure this info is notable or cared about for the average person looking at these articles. I don't think anybody goes to Sterling Shepards article looking to read that he finished <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sterling_Shepard&oldid=prev&diff=783037356">44th in "catch rate"</a>. There's also no constancy to which stats are added and are seemingly just chosen at random. It's more evidence suggesting that the user is just adding random numbers to articles just to have a link to the website as a form of advertisement.--<a href="/wiki/User:Yankees10" title="User:Yankees10">Yankees10</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Yankees10-2017-05-30T19:32:00.000Z-User:Mkelley78" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 30 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yankees10-2017-05-30T19:32:00.000Z-User:Mkelley78"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yankees10-2017-05-30T19:32:00.000Z-User:Mkelley78"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z-User:Mkelley78"></span>Catch rate is not an advanced stat/analytic any more than batting average. Moreover, I would very much appreciate the opportunity to contribute advanced stats, but in an effort to be collaborative, I have refrained from including interesting advanced stats and analytics from my research specifically because of your criticisms. Per your request, I try to ensure that my contributions are noteworthy and easily consumed by the common fan. As it relates to Sterling Shepard, he was universally lauded for his efficiency coming out of Oklahoma, and there was significant interest in his catch rate. Additionally, I often cite PlayerProfiler, because it contextualizes the information without requiring original research or a login.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mkelley78&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mkelley78 (page does not exist)">Mkelley78</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mkelley78" title="User talk:Mkelley78">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z-User:Mkelley78" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:32, 30 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z-User:Mkelley78"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z-User:Mkelley78"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-StarScream1007-2017-05-30T23:11:00.000Z-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mkelley78&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mkelley78 (page does not exist)">Mkelley78</a>:</span> do you have any affiliation whatsoever with PlayerProfiler.com or any companies affiliated with the website? It would be considered a conflict of interest if you are trying to use your own website as a reference on Wikipedia and would conflict with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SPS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SPS">WP:SPS</a>. Wikipedia also has strict <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COVERT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COVERT">anti-undisclosed advertisement rules</a>. --<small><span style="border: 1px solid"><a href="/wiki/User:StarScream1007" title="User:StarScream1007"><b><span style="background-color:White; color:#CC0000"> StarScream1007 </span></b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:StarScream1007" title="User talk:StarScream1007"><span style="background-color:#003399; color:white"> ►Talk </span></a> </span></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-StarScream1007-2017-05-30T23:11:00.000Z-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 30 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-StarScream1007-2017-05-30T23:11:00.000Z-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-StarScream1007-2017-05-30T23:11:00.000Z-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-07T15:03:00.000Z-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z"></span>I agree these additions are generally worthless. Advanced stats like these may have made their way into the baseball world, but in football they're still a ways off from being recognized or understood by the general public. In football we like our stats simple. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-07T15:03:00.000Z-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:03, 7 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-07T15:03:00.000Z-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-07T15:03:00.000Z-Mkelley78-2017-05-30T22:32:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class" data-mw-thread-id="h-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class-2017-06-16T15:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class-2017-06-16T15:30:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Datone_Jones" title="Datone Jones">Datone Jones</a> to B class to GA class<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class-2017-06-16T15:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-UCLAgirl623-2017-06-16T15:30:00.000Z-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class"></span>I'm a UCLA Bruins fan. And I'm planning on getting some UCLA Bruins NFL and NBA players to GA status. The article Datone Jones is one of them. Can someone please help me with the article so I can one day get it to GA class (by basically looking at the 4 bullets: </p> <dl><dd><ul><li>The article does not have a sufficient <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LEAD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LEAD">lead section</a>, which would certainly be noted at any GA review. It should, usually in two to four paragraphs, depending on the breadth of the body: "summarize the most important points covered in an article in such a way that it can stand on its own as a concise version of the article."</li> <li>The following are unsourced: The text under "College career"; the last sentence under Senior season; the last sentence under "Green Bay Packers"; the entirety of the sections under "2013 season", "2014 season" and "2015 season".</li> <li>The section under Minnesota Vikings is a single short sentence; feels like an orphan; surely two sourced sentences can be sustained?</li> <li>All three statistics tables are cited using an external link embedded in the text, without full <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CITEHOW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CITEHOW">attribution details</a>.</li></ul></dd></dl> <p>Hopefully someone explain to me about: the sufficient lead part (like which sections need it or what do I need to add in that part), the Vikings section, and while I did add some references for the 2013, 2014, and 2015 season sections, do I need to add more references to those 3 sections I mentioned? I did request copyedit as well and i'm thinking peer review but before I do peer review, I am more focused on improving it. If you reply to me, could you please do it in bullets. Thanks! --<b><a href="/wiki/User:UCLAgirl623" title="User:UCLAgirl623"><span style="color: Pink">UCLAgirl623</span></a></b> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:UCLAgirl623" title="User talk:UCLAgirl623"><b style="color:#007DC3">Whats up!</b></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-UCLAgirl623-2017-06-16T15:30:00.000Z-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:30, 16 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-UCLAgirl623-2017-06-16T15:30:00.000Z-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-UCLAgirl623-2017-06-16T15:30:00.000Z-Datone_Jones_to_B_class_to_GA_class"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players" data-mw-thread-id="h-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"></span>Creating a template for the NFL Top 100 Players<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players"></span>I've been thinking of ways into adding the NFL Top 100 Players ranking onto the individual players pages. I've thought about the infoboxes but that would be too cluttered so I thought that I could create a template for each Top 100 and add them to the respective players pages at the end of the articles with the roster navboxes, draft templates, etc. I wanted to get your input on this if this is a good idea or if it would be too cluttered or unnecessary. I feel like these rankings should be somewhere on the player pages because most of these players love and respect these rankings and I feel they are important to the content of their pages. Thanks <a href="/wiki/User:Jrooster49" title="User:Jrooster49">Jrooster49</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jrooster49" title="User talk:Jrooster49">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:40, 18 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z-Creating_a_template_for_the_NFL_Top_100_Players"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-06-18T14:45:00.000Z-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"></span>Mention these honors in the body of the articles. We don't need more award navbox templates. In fact, we should be getting rid of lot of them. <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-06-18T14:45:00.000Z-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:45, 18 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-06-18T14:45:00.000Z-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-06-18T14:45:00.000Z-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-18T15:26:00.000Z-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"></span>I agree that they've become a pretty big deal in the past few seasons, but I agree with Jweiss that we already have way too many navboxes. They've been releasing the Top 100 for 7 years now, so that would be 700 more navboxes we'd have to add. Not ideal. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-18T15:26:00.000Z-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:26, 18 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-18T15:26:00.000Z-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-06-18T15:26:00.000Z-Jrooster49-2017-06-18T13:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Input" data-mw-thread-id="h-Input-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Input-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z"></span>Input<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Input-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z-Input"></span>So I've been thinking about this since he was fired last week (which as a Chiefs fan came as a HUGE shock), on <a href="/wiki/2017_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season" title="2017 Kansas City Chiefs season">2017 Kansas City Chiefs season</a> should we include John Dorsey <i>and</i> his replacement in the "General Manager" parameter like this: </p><p>John Dorsey (Fired June 22)<br/> New GM's name </p><p>My thought behind this is John Dorsey was there for the draft free agency and player re-signing which was part of the 2017 NFL fiscal year which this article is supposed to cover. Thoughts??--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z-Input" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:19, 29 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z-Input"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z-Input"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-06-29T17:32:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z"></span>I'd say no just for confusion's sake. This info should be kept to prose only. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-06-29T17:32:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:32, 29 June 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-06-29T17:32:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-06-29T17:32:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-06-29T16:19:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records" data-mw-thread-id="h-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records-2017-07-04T23:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records-2017-07-04T23:17:00.000Z"></span>2016 NFL Quarterback win-loss records<span data-mw-comment-end="h-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records-2017-07-04T23:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vinnylospo-2017-07-04T23:17:00.000Z-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records"></span>Hi, I have been on Wikipedia for a month now. A big project that I have been working on is this page. (the one that I put the title of this section on). I want it to be like the other three already made ('12, '13, '14). The only problem is that I am only one person and I would like some help with it. So can someone please help me with the page? Thanks. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Vinnylospo" title="User:Vinnylospo">Vinnylospo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vinnylospo#top" title="User talk:Vinnylospo">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinnylospo" title="Special:Contributions/Vinnylospo">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Vinnylospo-2017-07-04T23:17:00.000Z-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:17, 4 July 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vinnylospo-2017-07-04T23:17:00.000Z-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vinnylospo-2017-07-04T23:17:00.000Z-2016_NFL_Quarterback_win-loss_records"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf" data-mw-thread-id="h-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf-2017-07-08T15:15:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf-2017-07-08T15:15:00.000Z"></span>AfD: The Greatest Show on Turf<span data-mw-comment-end="h-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf-2017-07-08T15:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ejgreen77-2017-07-08T15:15:00.000Z-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf"></span>Please see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Greatest Show on Turf">here</a>. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Ejgreen77" title="User:Ejgreen77">Ejgreen77</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ejgreen77" title="User talk:Ejgreen77">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Ejgreen77-2017-07-08T15:15:00.000Z-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:15, 8 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ejgreen77-2017-07-08T15:15:00.000Z-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ejgreen77-2017-07-08T15:15:00.000Z-AfD:_The_Greatest_Show_on_Turf"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players-2017-07-12T20:04:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players-2017-07-12T20:04:00.000Z"></span>Cfd: Category:Undrafted National Football League players<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players-2017-07-12T20:04:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2017_July_11#Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2017 July 11"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-12T20:04:00.000Z-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players"></span>Here</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-12T20:04:00.000Z-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 12 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-12T20:04:00.000Z-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-12T20:04:00.000Z-Cfd:_Category:Undrafted_National_Football_League_players"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="2nd_All-Pro_team_template" data-mw-thread-id="h-2nd_All-Pro_team_template-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-2nd_All-Pro_team_template-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span>2nd All-Pro team template<span data-mw-comment-end="h-2nd_All-Pro_team_template-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z-2nd_All-Pro_team_template"></span>I see at <a href="/wiki/Category:National_Football_League_All-Pro_Team_navigational_boxes" title="Category:National Football League All-Pro Team navigational boxes">Category:National Football League All-Pro Team navigational boxes</a> that <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:2016_2nd_All-Pro_Team&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:2016 2nd All-Pro Team (page does not exist)">2016 2nd All-Pro Team</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> has been created and looks out of place. Do we want to start doing this?--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z-2nd_All-Pro_team_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:54, 11 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z-2nd_All-Pro_team_template"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z-2nd_All-Pro_team_template"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-12T20:03:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span>Probably not a good idea. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-12T20:03:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:03, 12 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-12T20:03:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-12T20:03:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-12T21:10:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span>No, terrible idea. This would add hundreds of navboxes to player pages. I also don't think adding them to the AP All-Pro team navbox would be a good idea, for the same reason. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-12T21:10:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 12 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-12T21:10:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-12T21:10:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-13T02:02:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span>As someone who's been in the project for the better part of a decade, absolutely not. Terrible idea, per Lizard. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-13T02:02:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:02, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-13T02:02:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-13T02:02:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-13T03:52:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride">Crash Underride</a>:</span>, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:2016_2nd_All-Pro_Team&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:2016 2nd All-Pro Team (page does not exist)">Template:2016 2nd All-Pro Team</a> has been <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion">nominated for deletion</a>. You are invited to comment on the discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2017_July_13#Template:2016_2nd_All-Pro_Team" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2017 July 13">the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page</a>.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-13T03:52:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:52, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-13T03:52:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-13T03:52:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vinnylospo-2017-07-13T04:40:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span>Guys I made it. I made the template. Vinnylospo, thats my name. I'm the guy about the <a href="/w/index.php?title=2016_NFL_quarterback_win-loss_records&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="2016 NFL quarterback win-loss records (page does not exist)">2016 NFL quarterback win-loss records</a>. You can delete it. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Vinnylospo" title="User:Vinnylospo">Vinnylospo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vinnylospo#top" title="User talk:Vinnylospo">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinnylospo" title="Special:Contributions/Vinnylospo">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Vinnylospo-2017-07-13T04:40:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vinnylospo-2017-07-13T04:40:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vinnylospo-2017-07-13T04:40:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-07-11T22:54:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Team's_official_website_on_season_articles" data-mw-thread-id="h-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"><span id="Team.27s_official_website_on_season_articles"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"></span>Team's official website on season articles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles"></span>What are the opinions on having a team's official website in the external links section like at <a href="/wiki/2016_New_York_Giants_season" title="2016 New York Giants season">2016 New York Giants season</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:08, 14 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z-Team's_official_website_on_season_articles"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-07-14T21:55:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"></span>Unless the link is to a specific page about that specific season, I don't think it's necessary. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2017-07-14T21:55:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:55, 14 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-07-14T21:55:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-07-14T21:55:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-14T22:16:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, how helpful would this be for the 1975 season, but the website is showing all current info? Not to mention it would be a massive undertaking, with every season X 32. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-07-14T22:16:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 14 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-14T22:16:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-07-14T22:16:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T21:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:14:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-14T22:16:00.000Z"></span>Ok, I'll start removing them when I see them unless anyone else has a different opinion. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:14:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-14T22:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:14, 14 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:14:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-14T22:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:14:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-14T22:16:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Capitalization_in_staff_templates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Capitalization_in_staff_templates-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Capitalization_in_staff_templates-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z"></span>Capitalization in staff templates<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Capitalization_in_staff_templates-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z-Capitalization_in_staff_templates"></span>Shouldn't a lot of the positions in <a href="/w/index.php?title=List_of_current_National_Football_League_staffs&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="List of current National Football League staffs (page does not exist)">List of current National Football League staffs</a> be uncapitalized. I thought we always used <a href="/wiki/Sentence_case" class="mw-redirect" title="Sentence case">sentence case</a> for coaching positions (Head coach) but what about the front office positions like "Vice President". <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z-Capitalization_in_staff_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 14 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z-Capitalization_in_staff_templates"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z-Capitalization_in_staff_templates"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T00:27:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z"></span>Yes they should. I had noticed but hadn't yet gotten around to complaining about it. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T00:27:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:27, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T00:27:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T00:27:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-14T23:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T00:29:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T00:27:00.000Z"></span>Should every position be uncapitalized? <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T00:29:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T00:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:29, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T00:29:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T00:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T00:29:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T00:27:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T01:06:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T00:29:00.000Z"></span>Only the first words of each position should be capitalized. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T01:06:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T00:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:06, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T01:06:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T00:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T01:06:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T00:29:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T01:10:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T01:06:00.000Z"></span>Ok, I'll probably end up changing these. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T01:10:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T01:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:10, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T01:10:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T01:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T01:10:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T01:06:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T04:49:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T01:10:00.000Z"></span>Yes, I've argued this for a long time in the Redskins one. The only ones that should be capitalized are actual titles, such as GM and Vice President of Football Operations. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T04:49:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T01:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T04:49:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T01:10:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T04:49:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T01:10:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T05:56:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T04:49:00.000Z"></span>It's my understanding that even those should be in lowercase. Where is the line drawn when it comes to "actual titles"? Is Head Coach not a title? Offensive Coordinator? Senior Assistant Secretary to the Assistant Vice President of Football Operations Emeritus? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T05:56:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T04:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:56, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T05:56:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T04:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T05:56:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T04:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/MOS:JOBTITLES" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:JOBTITLES"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T06:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T05:56:00.000Z"></span>MOS:JOBTITLES</a> They are all corporate titles of the franchise's front office, a "head coach" is more of a general occupation, as with every other coaching position, and those should never be capitalized. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T06:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T05:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:43, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T06:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T05:56:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T06:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T05:56:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T07:06:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T06:43:00.000Z"></span>I see, but I'm still not convinced they should be capitalized. Aren't we using these terms generically? Which of the three exceptions listed by MOS:JOBTITLES applies here? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T07:06:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T06:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:06, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T07:06:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T06:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T07:06:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T06:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T07:06:00.000Z"></span>We could, but some of the teams use a custom title that isn't used on other teams, so we couldn't really be generic with those. Reliable sources also capitalize front office titles and never coaching/player positions, so we should just follow their lead. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T07:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T07:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:20:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T07:06:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T21:23:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:20:00.000Z"></span>What about front office positions like general manager which it seems like we don't capitalize (ex. <a href="/wiki/Brandon_Beane" title="Brandon Beane">Brandon Beane</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T21:23:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T21:23:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T21:23:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:59:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T21:23:00.000Z"></span>It depends if we are talking about GM as a title or occupation. We would follow the same rules as we would talking about a company president. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:59:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T21:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:59, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:59:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T21:23:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:59:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-15T21:23:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:47:00.000Z-Capitalization_in_staff_templates"></span> Actually, why are we even listing front office personnel? You'd normally never see these listed on a team's roster, because they have nothing to do with the actual team. Not to mention, probably less than half of these front office people even have their own article, and the ones that don't likely wouldn't pass GNG. Compare with <a href="/wiki/List_of_current_MLB_team_rosters" class="mw-redirect" title="List of current MLB team rosters">List of current MLB team rosters</a> and <a href="/wiki/List_of_current_NBA_team_rosters" title="List of current NBA team rosters">List of current NBA team rosters</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:47:00.000Z-Capitalization_in_staff_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:47, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:47:00.000Z-Capitalization_in_staff_templates"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:47:00.000Z-Capitalization_in_staff_templates"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:50:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:47:00.000Z"></span>On that note, many of the blue links for front office personnel aren't even to the correct pages. <a href="/wiki/Tom_Robinson" title="Tom Robinson">Tom Robinson</a> and <a href="/wiki/Todd_Williams" title="Todd Williams">Todd Williams</a> are listed as members of the Cowboys front office... <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:50:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:50:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:50:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:57:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:50:00.000Z"></span>I wouldn't be against listing only the owner, GM, and president, omitting every other front office personnel which would help standardize and simplify all of the team templates to the most core roles. We could even have it managed directly by the template, making any other value added non-valid, similar to how infoboxes work. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:57:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:57, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:57:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:57:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T21:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T22:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:57:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, I realize now the NFL one is listing team staffs while the others are rosters. But I agree, we don't need to list every junior assistant executive vice president of shoelace development. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T22:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 15 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T22:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-15T22:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-15T21:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z"><span id="Incorrect_Information_on_.22List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks.22_article"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z"></span>Incorrect Information on "List of Supplemental Draft Picks" article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Keithisgood-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article"></span>The lead of <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_supplemental_draft_picks">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_supplemental_draft_picks</a> is incorrect. Although the NFL formalized or altered their supplemental draft with the Spring 1977 Owners meeting, it seems an NFL Supplemental Draft in some form dates back to either the 1968 or 1970 Collective Bargaining Agreement. </p><p>“Notre Dame End Picked." Baltimore Sun; Baltimore, MD. p.C5 describes Notre Dame TE Tom Lawson being taken by the Colts as part of a "Supplementary Draft" on June 15th 1970. I can not find, however, any record of the five other eligible players being chosen, record of a previous supplemental draft, or any text of the 1968 or 70 CBA which would point to the establishment of a supplemental draft. </p><p>So to say the Supplemental Draft began in 1977 is not quite right. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Keithisgood&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Keithisgood (page does not exist)">Keithisgood</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Keithisgood&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Keithisgood (page does not exist)">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Keithisgood" title="Special:Contributions/Keithisgood">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Keithisgood-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 17 July 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Keithisgood-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Keithisgood-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z-Incorrect_Information_on_"List_of_Supplemental_Draft_Picks"_article"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-17T19:37:00.000Z-Keithisgood-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z"></span>I couldn't find that source you were talking about but if its true, then we could probably add it to the article. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-17T19:37:00.000Z-Keithisgood-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:37, 17 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-17T19:37:00.000Z-Keithisgood-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-07-17T19:37:00.000Z-Keithisgood-2017-07-17T17:45:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft-2017-07-17T20:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft-2017-07-17T20:11:00.000Z"></span>Proposal to add metric values to <a href="/wiki/Template:NFL_predraft" title="Template:NFL predraft">Template:NFL predraft</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft-2017-07-17T20:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Spike-2017-07-17T20:11:00.000Z-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft"></span>I would like to propose adding metric values to <a href="/wiki/Template:NFL_predraft" title="Template:NFL predraft">Template:NFL predraft</a> and I would really appreciate your input. Please see <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:NFL_predraft#Proposal_to_add_metric_values" title="Template talk:NFL predraft">Template_talk:NFL_predraft#Proposal_to_add_metric_values</a> for the description of my proposed change and a list of issues that I see when the change would be implemented. <a href="/wiki/User:Spike" title="User:Spike">Spike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Spike" title="User talk:Spike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Spike-2017-07-17T20:11:00.000Z-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 17 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Spike-2017-07-17T20:11:00.000Z-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Spike-2017-07-17T20:11:00.000Z-Proposal_to_add_metric_values_to_Template:NFL_predraft"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name" data-mw-thread-id="h-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z"></span>Teddy Bridgewater full name<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name"></span>The <a href="/wiki/Teddy_Bridgewater" title="Teddy Bridgewater">article</a> states that his name is <b>Theodore Andrew Bridgewater Jr.</b>, but <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BridTe00.htm">Pro Football Reference</a> lists his name as Theodore Edmond Bridgewater. Yet, his article doesn't have a source for his middle name being "Andrew". Thoughts? <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:18, 24 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z-Teddy_Bridgewater_full_name"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-24T05:14:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z"></span>His middle name was changed by an IP in September <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Teddy_Bridgewater&diff=737779528&oldid=737771483">here</a>, citing Rostermon.com. I've never heard of this site but <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.rostermon.com/player/3681/">they do have his middle name as Andrew</a>. I think it's best we stick to our guns and go with PFR. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-24T05:14:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:14, 24 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-24T05:14:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-24T05:14:00.000Z-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T04:18:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-24T05:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-24T05:14:00.000Z"></span>There is also this <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://floridaresidentdb.com/person/122430177/theodore_andrew_bridgewater_jr">Florida voter registration site</a> that gives the same name and birthday in the Miami area, but who knows how reliable this site is. Perhaps somebody could email PFR asking them where they got Edmond from? ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-07-24T05:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-24T05:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:23, 24 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-07-24T05:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-24T05:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-07-24T05:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-07-24T05:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-07-24T06:06:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-24T05:23:00.000Z"></span>If sources conflict at all and the best we have is PFR, I'd remove the middle name entirely. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13"><b>Rob</b><small><sub>13</sub></small></a><sup style="margin-left:-1.0ex;"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:BU_Rob13" title="User talk:BU Rob13">Talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BU_Rob13-2017-07-24T06:06:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-24T05:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:06, 24 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BU_Rob13-2017-07-24T06:06:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-24T05:23:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BU_Rob13-2017-07-24T06:06:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-07-24T05:23:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T07:57:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-07-24T06:06:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13">BU Rob13</a>:</span> I took your advice and removed the middle name, for the time being, until we can get a better source. <sup>(talk page stalker)</sup> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#008caf;"><b>Crash</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash_Underride" title="User talk:Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>Under</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Crash_Underride" title="Special:Contributions/Crash Underride"><span style="color:#6000c6;"><b>ride</b></span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T07:57:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-07-24T06:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:57, 24 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T07:57:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-07-24T06:06:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crash_Underride-2017-07-24T07:57:00.000Z-BU_Rob13-2017-07-24T06:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Roberto_Aguayo" data-mw-thread-id="h-Roberto_Aguayo-2017-08-12T17:03:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Roberto_Aguayo-2017-08-12T17:03:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Roberto_Aguayo" title="Roberto Aguayo">Roberto Aguayo</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Roberto_Aguayo-2017-08-12T17:03:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jd22292-2017-08-12T17:03:00.000Z-Roberto_Aguayo"></span>IPs keep adding unsourced changes to the article after the subject's recent release from the Buccaneers. I'd like to request assistance at the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jd22292">jd22292</a> <span style="background-color:#368ec9">(Jalen D. Folf)</span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Jd22292">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jd22292-2017-08-12T17:03:00.000Z-Roberto_Aguayo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:03, 12 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jd22292-2017-08-12T17:03:00.000Z-Roberto_Aguayo"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jd22292-2017-08-12T17:03:00.000Z-Roberto_Aguayo"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="HOF_Banners" data-mw-thread-id="h-HOF_Banners-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-HOF_Banners-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span>HOF Banners<span data-mw-comment-end="h-HOF_Banners-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z-HOF_Banners"></span>Why is Morten Andersen the only one with a proper banner? None of the other guys in the 2017 class have proper banners. <a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z-HOF_Banners" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:58, 6 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z-HOF_Banners"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z-HOF_Banners"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T04:31:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span>Your guess is as good as mine. Where does that ID come from? In the past the ID was in the URL but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T04:31:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:31, 6 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T04:31:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T04:31:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T19:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T04:31:00.000Z"></span>We need to address this and figure out what to do about it. I've had to do several dozen reverts now of people either copy and pasting another player's ID or straight up pasting the link to the player's HOF profile (which results in a link to the HOF homepage). Can anyone figure out where Morten Andersen's ID comes from so we can do the same with the other inductees? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T19:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T04:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 6 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T19:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T04:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T19:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T04:31:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-06T20:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T19:24:00.000Z"></span>On <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/years/">this page</a>, it shows the IDs when you hover over the players' names. However it only does that up to the class of 2015. Maybe whoever entered Anderson's ID just guessed until he found it. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-06T20:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T19:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:23, 6 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-06T20:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T19:24:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-06T20:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T19:24:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-06T20:23:00.000Z"></span>Yes, all of last year's inductees are also wrong but I had forgotten about it until now. Maybe it's time we cut the external link altogether and just go with a wikilink to <a href="/wiki/Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame" title="Pro Football Hall of Fame">Pro Football Hall of Fame</a>, the way baseball does it. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-06T20:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:39, 6 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-06T20:23:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-06T20:23:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z"></span>I've always been a fan of the external link to the individual player's College and Pro Football Hall of Fame entries. Those links are of much higher value than a generic wikilink to the article about the Hall of Fame. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:01, 6 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T21:06:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z"></span>Can the parameter be changed to support a direct link to the player's HOF page? I'd rather we not have to use trial and error for this every year. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T21:06:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:06, 6 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T21:06:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T21:06:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vinnylospo-2017-08-07T04:03:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z"></span>I put Andersen there, it was just random for me. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Vinnylospo" title="User:Vinnylospo">Vinnylospo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vinnylospo#top" title="User talk:Vinnylospo">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vinnylospo" title="Special:Contributions/Vinnylospo">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Vinnylospo-2017-08-07T04:03:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:03, 7 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vinnylospo-2017-08-07T04:03:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vinnylospo-2017-08-07T04:03:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-08-06T21:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-08-07T16:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z"></span>Lizard</a> That's a good idea, but that may be difficult changing them all. I like the external link, but yeah, that's strange that '16 and '17 class is screwed up... maybe we should guess every one lol. Is there another way to find the numbers? <a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-08-07T16:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:24, 7 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-08-07T16:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-08-07T16:24:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-06T20:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-07T21:29:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span>I copied <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/years/">this</a> page's source code, then sorted the code by number and manually entered missing numbers. I have all the IDs in order at <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:WikiOriginal-9/HOF&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:WikiOriginal-9/HOF (page does not exist)">User:WikiOriginal-9/HOF</a> (click edit to view it better, also somehow the last name's got cut off). Everyone now has their proper IDs except <a href="/wiki/Brett_Favre" title="Brett Favre">Brett Favre</a>, <a href="/wiki/Ken_Stabler" title="Ken Stabler">Ken Stabler</a>, <a href="/wiki/Kenny_Easley" title="Kenny Easley">Kenny Easley</a>, <a href="/wiki/Jerry_Jones" title="Jerry Jones">Jerry Jones</a>, <a href="/wiki/Jason_Taylor_(American_football)" title="Jason Taylor (American football)">Jason Taylor</a> and <a href="/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson" title="LaDainian Tomlinson">LaDainian Tomlinson</a>. I think these six might not have IDs because all the numbers seem to be accounted for. Going any higher than 331 just seems to start to redirect to other pages. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-07T21:29:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:29, 7 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-07T21:29:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-07T21:29:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-07T21:35:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span>We should probably just change the parameter to where it takes the names like "kurt-warner" or the full URL. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-07T21:35:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:35, 7 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-07T21:35:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-07T21:35:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-12T19:48:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span>I already changed <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography/sandbox" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography/sandbox">Template:Infobox NFL biography/sandbox</a> to accept the players' names. Now someone with template editor rights needs to edit the template. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-12T19:48:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 12 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-12T19:48:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-08-12T19:48:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-08-06T03:58:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update-2017-08-15T01:31:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update-2017-08-15T01:31:00.000Z"></span>Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign progress update<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update-2017-08-15T01:31:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-15T01:31:00.000Z-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update"></span>Since May 2016, we've made steady progress with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign">Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign</a>, an attempt to improve the overall quality of articles on players in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. There are now 0 stub articles for PFHOF players, compared to 14 when we began. Here is the current breakdown of article ratings compared to what they were a year ago: </p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1216972533">.mw-parser-output .col-begin{border-collapse:collapse;padding:0;color:inherit;width:100%;border:0;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .col-begin-small{font-size:90%}.mw-parser-output .col-break{vertical-align:top;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .col-break-2{width:50%}.mw-parser-output .col-break-3{width:33.3%}.mw-parser-output .col-break-4{width:25%}.mw-parser-output .col-break-5{width:20%}@media(max-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .col-begin,.mw-parser-output .col-begin>tbody,.mw-parser-output .col-begin>tbody>tr,.mw-parser-output .col-begin>tbody>tr>td{display:block!important;width:100%!important}.mw-parser-output .col-break{padding-left:0!important}}</style><div> <table class="col-begin" role="presentation" style="width: auto;"> <tbody><tr> <td class="col-break"> <table class="wikitable" style="width:8em"> <caption><span class="nowrap">Assessment in July 2016</span> </caption> <tbody><tr> <td>Featured</td> <td>2 </td></tr> <tr> <td>Good</td> <td>15 </td></tr> <tr> <td>A</td> <td>0 </td></tr> <tr> <td>B</td> <td>16 </td></tr> <tr> <td>C</td> <td>74 </td></tr> <tr> <td>Start</td> <td>191 </td></tr> <tr> <td>Stub</td> <td>14 </td></tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td class="col-break" style="padding-left: 2em;"> <table class="wikitable" style="width:8em"> <caption><span class="nowrap">Current assessment</span> </caption> <tbody><tr> <td>Featured</td> <td>2 </td></tr> <tr> <td>Good</td> <td>24 </td></tr> <tr> <td>A</td> <td>0 </td></tr> <tr> <td>B</td> <td>30 </td></tr> <tr> <td>C</td> <td>78 </td></tr> <tr> <td>Start</td> <td>177 </td></tr> <tr> <td>Stub</td> <td>0 </td></tr> </tbody></table> <p> </p> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <p>As you can see, over half of the articles are still merely start class. Please consider "adopting" a player and contributing to the campaign. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-15T01:31:00.000Z-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:31, 15 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-15T01:31:00.000Z-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-08-15T01:31:00.000Z-Pro_Football_Hall_of_Fame_article_improvement_campaign_progress_update"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="2017–18_NFL_playoffs" data-mw-thread-id="h-2017–18_NFL_playoffs-2017-08-20T15:12:00.000Z"><span id="2017.E2.80.9318_NFL_playoffs"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-2017–18_NFL_playoffs-2017-08-20T15:12:00.000Z"></span>2017–18 NFL playoffs<span data-mw-comment-end="h-2017–18_NFL_playoffs-2017-08-20T15:12:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-08-20T15:12:00.000Z-2017–18_NFL_playoffs"></span>I've been receiving vandalization of the article for the <a href="/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_NFL_playoffs" title="2017–18 NFL playoffs">2017–18 playoffs</a>, currently hidden. Can someone do something about it? <a href="/wiki/User:Zacchaeusbarbour" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Zacchaeusbarbour">Z.I. Barbour</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zacchaeusbarbour" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Zacchaeusbarbour">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-08-20T15:12:00.000Z-2017–18_NFL_playoffs" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:12, 20 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-08-20T15:12:00.000Z-2017–18_NFL_playoffs"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-08-20T15:12:00.000Z-2017–18_NFL_playoffs"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Neutral_Notice" data-mw-thread-id="h-Neutral_Notice-2017-08-23T15:28:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Neutral_Notice-2017-08-23T15:28:00.000Z"></span>Neutral Notice<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Neutral_Notice-2017-08-23T15:28:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sportsguy17-2017-08-23T15:28:00.000Z-Neutral_Notice"></span>Hi all WP:NFL members, </p><p><a href="/wiki/List_of_New_England_Patriots_starting_quarterbacks" title="List of New England Patriots starting quarterbacks">List of New England Patriots starting quarterbacks</a> has <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_New_England_Patriots_starting_quarterbacks/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of New England Patriots starting quarterbacks/archive1">an open FLC</a> that has yet to be touched by any editor besides me, so some feedback on the article would be appreciated. I'd hate to see it get archived due to inactivity. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Sportsguy17" title="User:Sportsguy17"><b><span style="color:Blue;">Sports</span><span style="color:Orange;"><i>guy17</i></span></b></a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sportsguy17" title="User talk:Sportsguy17"><span style="color:Blue;"><b>T</b></span></a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Sportsguy17" title="Special:Contributions/Sportsguy17"><span style="color:Orange;">C</span></a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sportsguy17-2017-08-23T15:28:00.000Z-Neutral_Notice" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:28, 23 August 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sportsguy17-2017-08-23T15:28:00.000Z-Neutral_Notice"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sportsguy17-2017-08-23T15:28:00.000Z-Neutral_Notice"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikivoyage_help" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikivoyage_help-2017-09-06T17:21:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikivoyage_help-2017-09-06T17:21:00.000Z"></span>Wikivoyage help<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikivoyage_help-2017-09-06T17:21:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WhatamIdoing-2017-09-06T17:21:00.000Z-Wikivoyage_help"></span>If you have attended American football games (professional, college, anything), then please see the question at <a href="https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Travellers%27_pub#Has_anyone_ever_been_to_an_American_football_game?" class="extiw" title="voy:Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub">voy:Wikivoyage:Travellers' pub#Has anyone ever been to an American football game?</a>. </p><p>Wikivoyage is a travel guide, and <a href="https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Welcome,_Wikipedians" class="extiw" title="voy:Wikivoyage:Welcome, Wikipedians">the rules and style are quite different</a> – but it is easy to understand, and everyone is very helpful and friendly. I'm sure they would appreciate your help in either adding the content or answering questions on the talk page. (If you're new to Wikivoyage, then it's one of our <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SISTER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SISTER">WP:SISTERs</a>, so your regular Wikipedia account should automatically log you in there.) <a href="/wiki/User:WhatamIdoing" title="User:WhatamIdoing">WhatamIdoing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WhatamIdoing" title="User talk:WhatamIdoing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WhatamIdoing-2017-09-06T17:21:00.000Z-Wikivoyage_help" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:21, 6 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WhatamIdoing-2017-09-06T17:21:00.000Z-Wikivoyage_help"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WhatamIdoing-2017-09-06T17:21:00.000Z-Wikivoyage_help"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Jacoby_Brissett" title="Jacoby Brissett">Jacoby Brissett</a> birth year<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year"></span>Someone changed his birth year to 1993, which is what <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/jacobybrissett/2555261/profile">NFL.com</a> has but <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160503062816/http://www.nfl.com/player/jacobybrissett/2555261/profile">NFL.com used to say 1992</a> and that's what his article has said for years. If he was born in 1993, that means he graduated high school a year early. This <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-10-08/sports/os-florida-lsu-jacoby-brissett-1008-20111008_1_freshman-qb-jacoby-brissett-jeff-driskel-trey-burton">article</a> from Oct. 2011 says he is 18, except he should be 17 if he was born in Dec. 1993. Even though the coach might just be generally saying 18 year old since he's a freshman. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://sites.google.com/site/jacobybrissett1215/home/about-me">This</a>, which looks like it may have been written by Brissett, which says he was born in 1992. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:26, 7 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z-Jacoby_Brissett_birth_year"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-09-07T06:25:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z"></span>If the year really is unclear, you can follow something like at <a href="/wiki/Steve_Novak" title="Steve Novak">Steve Novak</a> where the discrepancy is footnoted and an exact year is not given.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-09-07T06:25:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:25, 7 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-09-07T06:25:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-09-07T06:25:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-07T02:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Beware_SB_Nation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Beware_SB_Nation-2017-09-08T17:02:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Beware_SB_Nation-2017-09-08T17:02:00.000Z"></span>Beware SB Nation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Beware_SB_Nation-2017-09-08T17:02:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/SB_Nation" title="SB Nation"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-09-08T17:02:00.000Z-Beware_SB_Nation"></span>SB Nation</a> is one of the most popular and most cited sources when it comes to sports. But it's important to know that most of its articles are by random joes sitting on their couch. The SB stands for "Sports <b>Blog</b>," and per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPSPS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPSPS">WP:BLPSPS</a>, blogs should be avoided when writing about living persons. While SB Nation does have some staff writers, there's almost always a better alternative, such as ESPN.com and NFL.com. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-09-08T17:02:00.000Z-Beware_SB_Nation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 8 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-09-08T17:02:00.000Z-Beware_SB_Nation"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-09-08T17:02:00.000Z-Beware_SB_Nation"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Herm_Edwards" data-mw-thread-id="h-Herm_Edwards-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Herm_Edwards-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z"></span>Herm Edwards<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Herm_Edwards-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z-Herm_Edwards"></span>I noticed everything actually lists him as "Herman" not "Herm." The Chiefs even list him as Herman. Is there a way to fix this? —<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z-Herm_Edwards" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:03, 8 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z-Herm_Edwards"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z-Herm_Edwards"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-08T23:56:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z"></span>His <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a> is Herm, so that's what the article should be titled. ("Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used") <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-08T23:56:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:56, 8 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-08T23:56:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-08T23:56:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-09-08T22:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a> analysis actually seems to favor "Herman" rather than "Herm". It appears that he was more commonly known as "Herman" during his playing and coaching days, though he has been referred to as "Herm" in later years as an analyst. A search of <a href="/wiki/Newspapers.com" class="mw-redirect" title="Newspapers.com">Newspapers.com</a> shows that, on an overall basis, he has been referred to as "Herman Edwards" three times more often (33,000 hits vs. 10,000) than as "Herm Edwards". A search of Google Books, which per WP:COMMONNAME is favored over a generic google search, also heavily favors "Herman" (4,690 hits) over "Herm" (1,170). For examples of major publications referring to him as Herman, see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/03/sports/football/edwards-awaits-addition-to-the-family.html">The New York Times</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.sfgate.com/sports/kroichick/article/NFL-Jets-coach-overcame-long-odds-Edwards-2642188.php">San Francisco Chronicle</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.newspapers.com/clip/13656265/edwards_game_plan/">Philadelphia Inquirer</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.newspapers.com/clip/13656280/edwards_becomes/">Los Angeles Times</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.newspapers.com/clip/13656256/vikes_tab_childress/">Orlando Sentinel</a>. See also <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/hermanedwards/2513485/profile">NFL.com</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.footballdb.com/players/herman-edwards-edwarhe01/stats">The Football Database</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/herman-edwards-1.html">Sports Reference College Football</a>. But see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=14330258">ESPN</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/EdwaHe0.htm">Pro-Football-Reference.com</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/09/herm-edwards-shares-his-powerful-perspective-on-colin-kaepernick">USA Today</a>. 15:42, 9 September 2017 (UTC)<a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal" data-mw-thread-id="h-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z"></span>Listing sack numbers as a whole number or decimal<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal"></span>Should we be listing sack numbers as a whole number or decimal, in regards to the infobox/stat tables? Nobody when actually speaking it says "<a href="/wiki/Bruce_Smith_(defensive_end)" class="mw-redirect" title="Bruce Smith (defensive end)">Bruce Smith</a> had 200.0 sacks in career", but because it's mathematically listed that way on places like NFL.com and ESPN due to the possibility of half-sacks, <a href="/wiki/User:Yankees10" title="User:Yankees10">Yankees10</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yankees10" title="User talk:Yankees10">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Yankees10" title="Special:Contributions/Yankees10">contribs</a>) says it's "official". I personally find it silly how we are following what a automated stat sheet is providing us, because we would not write this in prose <i><b>unless it ends in .5</b></i> like <a href="/wiki/Michael_Strahan" title="Michael Strahan">Michael Strahan</a>, nor would anybody actually say it this way; they'd just say two hundred. Thoughts? ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 14 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z-Listing_sack_numbers_as_a_whole_number_or_decimal"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yankees10-2017-09-14T20:37:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z"></span>To me it's simple. Every Source lists the .0 So I don't see the problem in also doing so.--<a href="/wiki/User:Yankees10" title="User:Yankees10">Yankees10</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Yankees10-2017-09-14T20:37:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 14 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yankees10-2017-09-14T20:37:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yankees10-2017-09-14T20:37:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-09-14T20:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="1982_and_1987_strikes" data-mw-thread-id="h-1982_and_1987_strikes-2017-09-25T15:01:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-1982_and_1987_strikes-2017-09-25T15:01:00.000Z"></span>1982 and 1987 strikes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-1982_and_1987_strikes-2017-09-25T15:01:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-That_man_from_Nantucket-2017-09-25T15:01:00.000Z-1982_and_1987_strikes"></span>Are there dedicated articles covering these labor conflicts? Given ESPN’s 30 for 30 made a show over an hour in length, there has to be enough sources to warrant the 87 strike having it’s own article.--<a href="/wiki/User:That_man_from_Nantucket" title="User:That man from Nantucket">That man from Nantucket</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:That_man_from_Nantucket" title="User talk:That man from Nantucket">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-That_man_from_Nantucket-2017-09-25T15:01:00.000Z-1982_and_1987_strikes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:01, 25 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-That_man_from_Nantucket-2017-09-25T15:01:00.000Z-1982_and_1987_strikes"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-That_man_from_Nantucket-2017-09-25T15:01:00.000Z-1982_and_1987_strikes"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="NFL_International_Series" data-mw-thread-id="h-NFL_International_Series-2017-09-26T11:29:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-NFL_International_Series-2017-09-26T11:29:00.000Z"></span>NFL International Series<span data-mw-comment-end="h-NFL_International_Series-2017-09-26T11:29:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2017-09-26T11:29:00.000Z-NFL_International_Series"></span>Some user came and moved the "NFL International Series" page to <a href="/wiki/NFL_London_and_Mexico_Games" class="mw-redirect" title="NFL London and Mexico Games">NFL London and Mexico Games</a> without any discussion. I moved it back, and advised to discuss the matter, but he/she ignores it and keeps moving to new namespace. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2017-09-26T11:29:00.000Z-NFL_International_Series" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:29, 26 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2017-09-26T11:29:00.000Z-NFL_International_Series"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2017-09-26T11:29:00.000Z-NFL_International_Series"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Current_players_without_articles" data-mw-thread-id="h-Current_players_without_articles-2017-09-29T18:23:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Current_players_without_articles-2017-09-29T18:23:00.000Z"></span>Current players without articles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Current_players_without_articles-2017-09-29T18:23:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-29T18:23:00.000Z-Current_players_without_articles"></span>There's a list of notable current NFL players without articles <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Articles_to_create#Current" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Articles to create">here</a> if anyone's interested. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-29T18:23:00.000Z-Current_players_without_articles" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:23, 29 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-29T18:23:00.000Z-Current_players_without_articles"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-29T18:23:00.000Z-Current_players_without_articles"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Discussion_input_on_former_player" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_input_on_former_player-2017-10-04T13:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_input_on_former_player-2017-10-04T13:30:00.000Z"></span>Discussion input on former player<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_input_on_former_player-2017-10-04T13:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Talk:Darrell_Bevell#Which_NFL_Draft.3F" title="Talk:Darrell Bevell"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Primefac-2017-10-04T13:30:00.000Z-Discussion_input_on_former_player"></span>A discussion</a> regarding the draft status of a player has been started. Your input is requested. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Primefac" title="User:Primefac">Primefac</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Primefac" title="User talk:Primefac">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Primefac-2017-10-04T13:30:00.000Z-Discussion_input_on_former_player" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:30, 4 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Primefac-2017-10-04T13:30:00.000Z-Discussion_input_on_former_player"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Primefac-2017-10-04T13:30:00.000Z-Discussion_input_on_former_player"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Definition_of_interior_lineman" data-mw-thread-id="h-Definition_of_interior_lineman-2017-10-05T00:46:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Definition_of_interior_lineman-2017-10-05T00:46:00.000Z"></span>Definition of interior lineman<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Definition_of_interior_lineman-2017-10-05T00:46:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-05T00:46:00.000Z-Definition_of_interior_lineman"></span>See discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_College_football#Definition_of_interior_lineman" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football">WikiProject College football</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-05T00:46:00.000Z-Definition_of_interior_lineman" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 5 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-05T00:46:00.000Z-Definition_of_interior_lineman"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-05T00:46:00.000Z-Definition_of_interior_lineman"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Highest_scoring_NFL_games" data-mw-thread-id="h-Highest_scoring_NFL_games-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Highest_scoring_NFL_games-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"></span>Highest scoring NFL games<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Highest_scoring_NFL_games-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z-Highest_scoring_NFL_games"></span>The <a href="/wiki/Highest_scoring_NFL_games" class="mw-redirect" title="Highest scoring NFL games">Highest scoring NFL games</a> page could use a few more eyes on it. It's a <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&range=latest-20&pages=Highest_scoring_NFL_games">highly viewed</a> page and there's often vandalism that stays on the page for days without anyone reverting it. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z-Highest_scoring_NFL_games" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:20, 5 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z-Highest_scoring_NFL_games"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z-Highest_scoring_NFL_games"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-05T18:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"></span>I've watchlisted it. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-05T18:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:43, 5 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-05T18:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-05T18:43:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-06T09:18:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"></span>I've placed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PEND" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PEND">pending changes</a> protection on it. As an aside, the page would look better as a table.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-10-06T09:18:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:18, 6 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-06T09:18:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-10-06T09:18:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-05T17:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-06T10:25:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-06T09:18:00.000Z"></span>Agree, a table would be better. But there are some interesting tidbits in the prose. What could we do with those? A separate "Game notes" section perhaps? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-06T10:25:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-06T09:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:25, 6 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-06T10:25:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-06T09:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-06T10:25:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-06T09:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football-2017-10-12T09:32:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football-2017-10-12T09:32:00.000Z"></span>Proposed page move of Gridiron football<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football-2017-10-12T09:32:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BilCat-2017-10-12T09:32:00.000Z-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football"></span>A move proposal affecting this project has been made at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Gridiron_football#Requested_move_4_October_2017" title="Talk:Gridiron football">Talk:Gridiron football#Requested move 4 October 2017</a>. The requested new title is <a href="/wiki/North_American_football" class="mw-disambig" title="North American football">North American football</a>. Thanks. - <a href="/wiki/User:BilCat" title="User:BilCat">BilCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilCat" title="User talk:BilCat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BilCat-2017-10-12T09:32:00.000Z-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:32, 12 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BilCat-2017-10-12T09:32:00.000Z-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BilCat-2017-10-12T09:32:00.000Z-Proposed_page_move_of_Gridiron_football"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proposed_page_move" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposed_page_move-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proposed_page_move-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z"></span>Proposed page move<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proposed_page_move-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lepricavark-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z-Proposed_page_move"></span>See <a href="/wiki/Talk:Jim_Marshall_(gridiron_football)#Requested_move_12_October_2017" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Jim Marshall (gridiron football)">Talk:Jim Marshall (gridiron football)#Requested move 12 October 2017</a> if you're interested. <a href="/wiki/User:Lepricavark" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Lepricavark">Lepricavark</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lepricavark" title="User talk:Lepricavark">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lepricavark-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z-Proposed_page_move" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:37, 12 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lepricavark-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z-Proposed_page_move"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lepricavark-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z-Proposed_page_move"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-12T10:59:00.000Z-Lepricavark-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z"></span>Summary: The move is proposed to <a href="/wiki/Jim_Marshall_(American_football)" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Jim Marshall (American football)">Jim Marshall (American football)</a>. He played 20 years in the US and 1 in Canada.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-10-12T10:59:00.000Z-Lepricavark-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:59, 12 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-12T10:59:00.000Z-Lepricavark-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-10-12T10:59:00.000Z-Lepricavark-2017-10-12T05:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD-2017-10-15T19:46:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD-2017-10-15T19:46:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Cardiac_Cats" class="mw-redirect" title="Cardiac Cats">Cardiac Cats</a> at AfD<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD-2017-10-15T19:46:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T19:46:00.000Z-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD"></span>See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Cardiac_Cats" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cardiac Cats">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cardiac Cats</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T19:46:00.000Z-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 15 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T19:46:00.000Z-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T19:46:00.000Z-Cardiac_Cats_at_AfD"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Dashes_in_number_parameter" data-mw-thread-id="h-Dashes_in_number_parameter-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Dashes_in_number_parameter-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span>Dashes in number parameter<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Dashes_in_number_parameter-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z-Dashes_in_number_parameter"></span>A dash was recently added to <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography">Infobox NFL biography</a> by <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>:</span> to conform with other sports templates. This causes free agents like <a href="/wiki/Victor_Cruz_(American_football)" class="mw-redirect" title="Victor Cruz (American football)">Victor Cruz (American football)</a> to have two sets of dashes in the infobox. Should we remove the No. "--" from free agents. Other sports don't have the two dashes (<a href="/wiki/Giovanni_Soto" title="Giovanni Soto">Giovanni Soto</a>, <a href="/wiki/Joel_Anthony" title="Joel Anthony">Joel Anthony</a>, <a href="/wiki/Gabe_Pruitt" title="Gabe Pruitt">Gabe Pruitt</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z-Dashes_in_number_parameter" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:14, 16 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z-Dashes_in_number_parameter"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z-Dashes_in_number_parameter"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-09-17T16:12:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span>No need to enter "--" for non applicable data. A player without a team does not have a current number. We don't add "--" for non-applicable death dates of living people. There is no need to treat unknown numbers differently.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-09-17T16:12:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:12, 17 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-09-17T16:12:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-09-17T16:12:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-09-17T16:12:00.000Z"></span>Anyway we can configure the template to not accept the "--" if the team field is also set as free agent. People add it back in <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Younghoe_Koo&diff=804004804&oldid=804003025">[7]</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Younghoe_Koo&diff=804115558&oldid=804042712">[8]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-09-17T16:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:46, 7 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-09-17T16:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-09-17T16:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-07T02:17:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, a lot of those roster-related edits are done by IPs and niche editors who've been doing it the same way for years, and will have no idea this discussion took place. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-07T02:17:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:17, 7 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-07T02:17:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-07T02:17:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-07T08:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z"></span>Pinging <a href="/wiki/User:Fibrebunny" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fibrebunny">Fibrebunny</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:TropicAces" title="User:TropicAces">TropicAces</a> for their opinion. Can't expect them to change their style if they are not even aware of this new proposal to not uses dashes when there is no number.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-10-07T08:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 7 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-07T08:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-10-07T08:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-07T01:46:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-10-07T19:08:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span>The dashes should only appear when a player is signed by a team, but has not yet had their number announced. Free agents do not need this, and I agree that it should be hidden by the infobox itself when set to free agent. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-10-07T19:08:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:08, 7 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-10-07T19:08:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-10-07T19:08:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-11T21:09:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-10-07T19:08:00.000Z"></span>I might be chiming in late here and I was completely unaware this discussion existed. I'm one of those editors that have adding the 2 dashes when a player does not have a number. I only started doing that because in the parameter descriptions on the Infobox page it said to use 2 dashes if the player does not have a number. If those are to be blank now I don't have a problem with that I just would like to know so I can stop.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-11T21:09:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-10-07T19:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 11 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-11T21:09:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-10-07T19:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-11T21:09:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-10-07T19:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-11T22:12:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-10-11T21:09:00.000Z"></span>It says "If the player's number is not currently known, fill the field with two dashes". It's not technically wrong since free agents don't have numbers. Unless someone else disagrees, we seem to be coming to a consensus to remove the dashes. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-11T22:12:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-10-11T21:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:12, 11 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-11T22:12:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-10-11T21:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-11T22:12:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-10-11T21:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-12T16:30:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-11T22:12:00.000Z"></span>I have no problems with it, it's just one of those things I would like to know so I don't add them in those instances.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-12T16:30:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-11T22:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:30, 12 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-12T16:30:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-11T22:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-12T16:30:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-11T22:12:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-12T17:09:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Frietjes" title="User:Frietjes">Frietjes</a>:</span> I saw you involved in <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_NFL_biography/Archive_17#Two_dashes" title="Template talk:Infobox NFL biography/Archive 17">this</a> discussion and you have also edited the template quite a bit. I think we've come to a consensus here to remove the dashes. There doesn't seem to be a perfectly valid reason to keep them and no one has opposed their removal yet. I think that editors just add them because that's the common format. How do you propose we remove the dashes? Can we set the template to not display the "--" when the team parameter is also set to "Free agent", "free agent", "Free Agent" and any other spellings there may be. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-12T17:09:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:09, 12 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-12T17:09:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-12T17:09:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-09-16T03:14:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-13T13:43:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-12T17:09:00.000Z"></span>WikiOriginal-9</a>, I just made <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_NFL_biography&type=revision&diff=805161114&oldid=801379380">this change</a> which makes it so the <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|number=</code> is ignored when <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|current_team=Free agent</code> (any capitalization). however, we basically make it do anything, just let me know what the result should be for (a) <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|current_team=Free agent</code> and <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|number=5</code>, (b) <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|current_team=Free agent</code> and <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|number=--</code>, (c) <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|current_team=A valid team</code> and <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|number=--</code>. I can figure out the coding once I know the desired output. <a href="/wiki/User:Frietjes" title="User:Frietjes">Frietjes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Frietjes" title="User talk:Frietjes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Frietjes-2017-10-13T13:43:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-12T17:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:43, 13 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-13T13:43:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-12T17:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Frietjes-2017-10-13T13:43:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-12T17:09:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z-Dashes_in_number_parameter"></span>Back to the point I raised above and <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_NFL_biography/Archive_17#Two_dashes" title="Template talk:Infobox NFL biography/Archive 17">also discussed before</a>, what value is it to the reader to see "--" when the number is unknown, whether they are a free agent or not? If we don't know, don't display it.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z-Dashes_in_number_parameter" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:12, 13 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z-Dashes_in_number_parameter"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z-Dashes_in_number_parameter"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-13T17:13:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span>I thought the -- when they're on a team wasn't completely needed either. I wouldn't be opposed to removing that. I think that when people don't see a number there, they will look to add it. I'm not sure that we would lose any number additions by removing the dashes. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-13T17:13:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:13, 13 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-13T17:13:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-13T17:13:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-13T18:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-13T17:13:00.000Z"></span>NBA project doesn't add "--" for unknown numbers, and it gets updated regularly (often with a made up number) anyways.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-10-13T18:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-13T17:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:53, 13 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-13T18:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-13T17:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-10-13T18:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-13T17:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T16:51:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93">Dissident93</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">Rockchalk717</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>:</span> Thoughts on removing the dashes when they're currently on a team but their number is not known? <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T16:51:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:51, 15 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T16:51:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T16:51:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T16:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T16:51:00.000Z"></span>No, they're arbitrary. No more dashes. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T16:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T16:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 15 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T16:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T16:51:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T16:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T16:51:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-15T17:31:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T16:53:00.000Z"></span>I don't really see the point in them. I only did it because you were supposed to.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-15T17:31:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T16:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:31, 15 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-15T17:31:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T16:53:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-15T17:31:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-15T16:53:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-10-15T18:45:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-10-15T17:31:00.000Z"></span>Same. The numbers field should be edited to only accept numbers and nothing else. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-10-15T18:45:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-10-15T17:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 15 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-10-15T18:45:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-10-15T17:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-10-15T18:45:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-10-15T17:31:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T18:54:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Frietjes" title="User:Frietjes">Frietjes</a>:</span> We've come to a consensus to remove the dashes when the player is on a team as well (option c). Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T18:54:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:54, 15 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T18:54:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T18:54:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-10-13T14:12:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-16T21:36:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T18:54:00.000Z"></span>okay, now done. <a href="/wiki/User:Frietjes" title="User:Frietjes">Frietjes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Frietjes" title="User talk:Frietjes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Frietjes-2017-10-16T21:36:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T18:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 16 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-16T21:36:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T18:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Frietjes-2017-10-16T21:36:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-15T18:54:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident-2017-10-23T19:18:00.000Z"><span id="Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_.22sexist_remark.22_incident"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident-2017-10-23T19:18:00.000Z"></span>Discussion on Talk:Cam Newton regarding "sexist remark" incident<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident-2017-10-23T19:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-23T19:18:00.000Z-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident"></span>at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Cam_Newton#2017_Jourdan_Rodrigue_incident" title="Talk:Cam Newton">Talk:Cam Newton#2017 Jourdan Rodrigue incident</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-23T19:18:00.000Z-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 23 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-23T19:18:00.000Z-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-23T19:18:00.000Z-Discussion_on_Talk:Cam_Newton_regarding_"sexist_remark"_incident"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="All-Pro_team_infobox" data-mw-thread-id="h-All-Pro_team_infobox-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-All-Pro_team_infobox-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span>All-Pro team infobox<span data-mw-comment-end="h-All-Pro_team_infobox-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z-All-Pro_team_infobox"></span>It would be helpful to have an infobox to summarize and navigate between All-Pro team articles. I took a quick, rough stab at creating one at <a href="/wiki/1924_All-Pro_Team" title="1924 All-Pro Team">1924 All-Pro Team</a>. I am not familiar with a lot of the coding that goes into such things. If someone can develop something better, that would be great. We could then roll them out into each article. (It could also serve as model for an infobox for college football All-American teams. See <a href="/wiki/1924_College_Football_All-America_Team" title="1924 College Football All-America Team">1924 College Football All-America Team</a>.) <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z-All-Pro_team_infobox" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:36, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z-All-Pro_team_infobox"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z-All-Pro_team_infobox"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T15:48:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span>I think the graphic can go, as well as the years that aren't immediately before/after. And add a "selectors" field. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T15:48:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:48, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T15:48:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T15:48:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-10-26T16:29:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T15:48:00.000Z"></span>My hope is that someone might be willing to create and code a master infobox that can be approved and then rolled out. As for selectors, I agree that would be useful and I've added a field for that. I've removed the old graphic (which I agree wasn't ideal), but some sort of graphic would be nice, and I'm open to suggestions. Having at least a couple years before and after doesn't crowd the field, adds a bit more perspective, and is how it is done in other major "year" navboxes. See, e.g., <a href="/wiki/1924" title="1924">1924</a>, <a href="/wiki/1924_in_the_United_States" title="1924 in the United States">1924 in the United States</a>, <a href="/wiki/1924_in_music" title="1924 in music">1924 in music</a>, <a href="/wiki/1924_in_film" title="1924 in film">1924 in film</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-10-26T16:29:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T15:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:29, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-10-26T16:29:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T15:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-10-26T16:29:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T15:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T17:28:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span>If we're gonna include the "<a href="/wiki/American_football" title="American football">American football</a>" link in the All-Pro infobox, should we link "<a href="/wiki/College_football" title="College football">college football</a>" or something in the All-American infobox? <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T17:28:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T17:28:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T17:28:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-10-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T17:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T17:28:00.000Z"></span>That link also seems unnecessary to me. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T17:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T17:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:39, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T17:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T17:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T17:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T17:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography" data-mw-thread-id="h-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span>Birth name in <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography">Infobox NFL biography</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography"></span>I've seen the birth_name parameter used some. Thoughts on it? Here is the original <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_NFL_biography/Archive_14#birth_name" title="Template talk:Infobox NFL biography/Archive 14">discussion</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:00, 16 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-16T23:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span>I say exclude. It's hardly ever appropriate, and we should be trimming down the infoboxes as much as possible. O. J. Simpson's infobox doesn't need to specify that his initials stand for Orenthal James. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-16T23:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:39, 16 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-16T23:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-16T23:39:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-17T04:32:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-16T23:39:00.000Z"></span>I don't see any reason to include it. With actors and musicians, it makes sense because they don't always use their birth names, but for any athlete on Wikipedia there's no good reason to include it. The birth name being in the opening only sufficient. The only things logical to be in the info box, is everything that's currently in it. In my opinion nothing really needs added or removed from it.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-17T04:32:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-16T23:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:32, 17 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-17T04:32:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-16T23:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-17T04:32:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-16T23:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-17T04:56:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span>It's rarely a key point of notability for NFL people. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IBX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IBX">WP:IBX</a>: "The less information [an infobox] contains, the more effectively it serves that purpose, allowing readers to identify key facts at a glance."—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-10-17T04:56:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:56, 17 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-17T04:56:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-10-17T04:56:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-10-18T19:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span>Agree with the others, for purposes of the sport/NFL, their birth name doesn't matter. Put that info in prose instead. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-10-18T19:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 18 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-10-18T19:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-10-18T19:53:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:31:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span>we should merge the birth_date and birth_place into a single <b>born</b> field, and the death_date and death_place into <b>died</b> like almost all other biographical infoboxes. <a href="/wiki/User:Frietjes" title="User:Frietjes">Frietjes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Frietjes" title="User talk:Frietjes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:31:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:31, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:31:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:31:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:31:00.000Z"></span>Looks like that is what the other infoboxes do, including the sports ones. Mind editing the sandbox and showing us what it would look like on this template? <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:08, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:31:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T16:28:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z"></span>sure, see the <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography/testcases" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography/testcases">testcases</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Frietjes" title="User:Frietjes">Frietjes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Frietjes" title="User talk:Frietjes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T16:28:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T16:28:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T16:28:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Deejayk" title="User:Deejayk">Deejayk</a>:</span> who participated in the earlier discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:Frietjes" title="User:Frietjes">Frietjes</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Frietjes" title="User talk:Frietjes">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:33, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Frietjes-2017-10-26T14:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Primefac" title="User:Primefac">Primefac</a>:</span> who participated in the earlier discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:08, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T15:08:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-16T23:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields" data-mw-thread-id="h-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span>Combining the birth date and birth place fields<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields-Birth_name_in_Infobox_NFL_biography-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">Rockchalk717</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93">Dissident93</a>:</span> Opinions on what <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Frietjes" title="User:Frietjes">Frietjes</a>:</span> said above, "we should merge the birth_date and birth_place into a single born field, and the death_date and death_place into died like almost all other biographical infoboxes". See <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_biography/testcases" title="Template:Infobox NFL biography/testcases">examples</a>. If this gains consensus, I'd also propose we implement it at <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_CFL_biography" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Infobox CFL biography">Template:Infobox CFL biography</a> and <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_college_football_player" title="Template:Infobox college football player">Template:Infobox college football player</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z-Combining_the_birth_date_and_birth_place_fields"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-10-26T18:40:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span>It's more consistent with other infoboxes and doesn't have a downside to it (that I can tell), so I think it should be done. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-10-26T18:40:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:40, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-10-26T18:40:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-10-26T18:40:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T18:41:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span>Sure. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T18:41:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:41, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T18:41:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-10-26T18:41:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-26T21:57:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span>I'm all for it. Seems pretty logical and I can't honestly come up with any reason why it wouldn't be a good idea.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-26T21:57:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:57, 26 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-26T21:57:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-10-26T21:57:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-27T00:55:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span>To be clear 1) consensus is to remove birth_name 2) birth_date and birth_place params remain, its just the display that is being combined. And same with death.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-10-27T00:55:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:55, 27 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-10-27T00:55:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-10-27T00:55:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-10-26T18:36:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Run_and_shoot_offense" data-mw-thread-id="h-Run_and_shoot_offense-2017-10-30T08:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Run_and_shoot_offense-2017-10-30T08:20:00.000Z"></span>Run and shoot offense<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Run_and_shoot_offense-2017-10-30T08:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BilCat-2017-10-30T08:20:00.000Z-Run_and_shoot_offense"></span>I just had a quick read of <a href="/wiki/Run_and_shoot_offense" title="Run and shoot offense">Run and shoot offense</a>, and it is quite awful. It's dominated by an long unsourced list of offenses that ran or were "influenced" by the Run and shoot. It could really use a good overhaul, but that is beyond my abilities and knowledge. Thanks. - <a href="/wiki/User:BilCat" title="User:BilCat">BilCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilCat" title="User talk:BilCat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-BilCat-2017-10-30T08:20:00.000Z-Run_and_shoot_offense" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:20, 30 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BilCat-2017-10-30T08:20:00.000Z-Run_and_shoot_offense"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BilCat-2017-10-30T08:20:00.000Z-Run_and_shoot_offense"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wanting_input" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wanting_input-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wanting_input-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z"></span>Wanting input<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wanting_input-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z-Wanting_input"></span>While looking at <a href="/wiki/Reggie_Ragland" title="Reggie Ragland">Reggie Ragland</a>'s page, I got to thinking about something. Shouldn't he have a Offseason and/or practice squad member only note next to the Bills? Why I say that is he was injured during preseason his rookie year and was placed on IR during the preseason then was traded to the Chiefs during the preseason so he was never on the Bills active roster during the regular season which sounds like he should qualify for that designatation. In which case we would have to extend to 2017 his tenure with the Bills. I wanted to get some feedback for that before I changed it. Thoughts???--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z-Wanting_input" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 7 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z-Wanting_input"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z-Wanting_input"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-07T21:09:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z"></span>I'm not sure it should. He was on the Bills' IR during the 2016 regular season, which isn't offseason or a practice squad. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-07T21:09:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 7 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-07T21:09:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-07T21:09:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2017-11-07T20:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T21:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-07T21:09:00.000Z"></span>I think the implication of "off-season and/or practice squad member only" is that the player never played a regular season game for that team. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T21:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-07T21:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 7 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T21:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-07T21:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T21:33:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-07T21:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-11-07T22:21:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T21:33:00.000Z"></span>More like he wasn't a member of their 53 man active roster during the regular season. At least, that's how I've always viewed it. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-11-07T22:21:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T21:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:21, 7 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-11-07T22:21:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T21:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-11-07T22:21:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T21:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T22:58:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-07T22:21:00.000Z"></span>Well there's the problem: we have 4 people giving their interpretation and no one saying how it really should be. The template documentation doesn't give any hints either. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T22:58:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-07T22:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T22:58:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-07T22:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T22:58:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-07T22:21:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-11-08T01:58:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T22:58:00.000Z"></span>Agreed, the whole thing is inconsistent and should be replaced with a better idea, if anybody has any. Being on the PS during the regular season isn't the same thing as being on the team in April and cut in June, so maybe we only note this if they were an offseason member? ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-11-08T01:58:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T22:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:58, 8 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-11-08T01:58:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T22:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-11-08T01:58:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-07T22:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-11-08T03:49:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-08T01:58:00.000Z"></span>It does need cleared up. I think this is a good opportunity to come to a consensus as opposed to interpretations. I've always taken it as it just meant not on active roster during the regular season which is why I mentioned this. Maybe rewording the off-season note perhaps??--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2017-11-08T03:49:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-08T01:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:49, 8 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2017-11-08T03:49:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-08T01:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2017-11-08T03:49:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-08T01:58:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Largest_NFL_trades" data-mw-thread-id="h-Largest_NFL_trades-2017-11-08T11:57:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Largest_NFL_trades-2017-11-08T11:57:00.000Z"></span>Largest NFL trades<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Largest_NFL_trades-2017-11-08T11:57:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/List_of_largest_National_Football_League_trades" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of largest National Football League trades"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-11-08T11:57:00.000Z-Largest_NFL_trades"></span>Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of largest National Football League trades</a> has been relisted for a 2nd time, and can use input to reach a consensus. Thanks.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-11-08T11:57:00.000Z-Largest_NFL_trades" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:57, 8 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-11-08T11:57:00.000Z-Largest_NFL_trades"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-11-08T11:57:00.000Z-Largest_NFL_trades"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="10,000_receiving_yards_club_template" data-mw-thread-id="h-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z"><span id="10.2C000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z"></span>10,000 receiving yards club template<span data-mw-comment-end="h-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span>We have a 10,000 rushing yards club template, but why don't we have one for receiving yards? I think it's a good idea and I'm down to make it, I just want to hear ideas because it's a way to connect fellow great receivers. —<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:54, 17 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T01:59:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z"></span>Delete the 10,000 rushing yards club template. There's no such club. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T01:59:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:59, 17 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T01:59:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T01:59:00.000Z-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T01:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T16:17:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span>Lizard</span></a> this one? —<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T16:17:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:17, 17 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T16:17:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T16:17:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span> </p> <div class="navbox-styles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T16:30:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output 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.navbox-odd{background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ul,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ul{padding:0.125em 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbar{display:block;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title .navbar{float:left;text-align:left;margin-right:0.5em}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .navbox-image img{max-width:none!important}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .navbox{display:none!important}}</style></div><div role="navigation" class="navbox" aria-labelledby="NFL_players_with_10,000_rushing_yards82" style="padding:3px"><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible autocollapse navbox-inner" style="border-spacing:0;background:transparent;color:inherit"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239400231">.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:inline;font-size:88%;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .navbar-collapse{float:left;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .navbar-boxtext{word-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .navbar ul{display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;line-height:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::before{margin-right:-0.125em;content:"[ "}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::after{margin-left:-0.125em;content:" ]"}.mw-parser-output .navbar li{word-spacing:-0.125em}.mw-parser-output .navbar a>span,.mw-parser-output .navbar a>abbr{text-decoration:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-mini abbr{font-variant:small-caps;border-bottom:none;text-decoration:none;cursor:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-full{font-size:114%;margin:0 7em}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-mini{font-size:114%;margin:0 4em}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:10,000_rushing_yards_club" title="Template:10,000 rushing yards club"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:10,000_rushing_yards_club" title="Template talk:10,000 rushing yards club"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:10,000_rushing_yards_club" title="Special:EditPage/Template:10,000 rushing yards club"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="NFL_players_with_10,000_rushing_yards82" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/List_of_NFL_career_rushing_yards_leaders" title="List of NFL career rushing yards leaders">NFL players with 10,000 rushing yards</a></div></th></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="navbox-list navbox-odd hlist" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Emmitt_Smith" title="Emmitt Smith">Emmitt Smith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Walter_Payton" title="Walter Payton">Walter Payton</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Frank_Gore" title="Frank Gore">Frank Gore</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Barry_Sanders" title="Barry Sanders">Barry Sanders</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Adrian_Peterson" title="Adrian Peterson">Adrian Peterson</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Curtis_Martin" title="Curtis Martin">Curtis Martin</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/LaDainian_Tomlinson" title="LaDainian Tomlinson">LaDainian Tomlinson</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Jerome_Bettis" title="Jerome Bettis">Jerome Bettis</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Eric_Dickerson" title="Eric Dickerson">Eric Dickerson</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Tony_Dorsett" title="Tony Dorsett">Tony Dorsett</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Jim_Brown" title="Jim Brown">Jim Brown</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Marshall_Faulk" title="Marshall Faulk">Marshall Faulk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Edgerrin_James" title="Edgerrin James">Edgerrin James</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Marcus_Allen" title="Marcus Allen">Marcus Allen</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Franco_Harris" title="Franco Harris">Franco Harris</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Thurman_Thomas" title="Thurman Thomas">Thurman Thomas</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Fred_Taylor_(American_football)" title="Fred Taylor (American football)">Fred Taylor</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Steven_Jackson" title="Steven Jackson">Steven Jackson</a></li> <li><i><a href="/wiki/Derrick_Henry" title="Derrick Henry">Derrick Henry</a></i></li> <li><a href="/wiki/John_Riggins" title="John Riggins">John Riggins</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Corey_Dillon" title="Corey Dillon">Corey Dillon</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/O._J._Simpson" title="O. J. Simpson">O. J. Simpson</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/LeSean_McCoy" title="LeSean McCoy">LeSean McCoy</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Warrick_Dunn" title="Warrick Dunn">Warrick Dunn</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Ricky_Watters" title="Ricky Watters">Ricky Watters</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Jamal_Lewis_(American_football)" title="Jamal Lewis (American football)">Jamal Lewis</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Thomas_Jones_(American_football)" title="Thomas Jones (American football)">Thomas Jones</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Tiki_Barber" title="Tiki Barber">Tiki Barber</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Eddie_George" title="Eddie George">Eddie George</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Marshawn_Lynch" title="Marshawn Lynch">Marshawn Lynch</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Ottis_Anderson" title="Ottis Anderson">Ottis Anderson</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Ricky_Williams" title="Ricky Williams">Ricky Williams</a></li></ul> <p>Italics denotes active player </p> </div></td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd><dl><dd>After some googling, the rushing yards one is probably warranted. But I'm not sold on a 10k receiving yards one. We should be conservative in creating new navboxes since we have so many already. When would it end after the 10k receiving yards navbox? 30k passing yards? 100 rushing TD? 50 interceptions? 1k tackles? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T16:30:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:30, 17 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T16:30:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T16:30:00.000Z-10,000_receiving_yards_club_template"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T16:48:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T16:30:00.000Z"></span>Lizard</span></a> I see your point. We have one and the other kinda goes along with it. It was just an idea. I just thought it would work since we have a 10k rushing yards one. —<a href="/wiki/User:RoyalsLife" title="User:RoyalsLife"><b>Royals</b></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:RoyalsLife" title="User talk:RoyalsLife"><b>Life</b></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T16:48:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T16:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 17 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T16:48:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T16:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RoyalsLife-2017-11-17T16:48:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-17T16:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Names" data-mw-thread-id="h-Names-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Names-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"></span>Names<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Names-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z-Names"></span>Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a>, shouldn't <a href="/wiki/Marvin_Jones_Jr." class="mw-redirect" title="Marvin Jones Jr.">Marvin Jones Jr.</a>, <a href="/wiki/Thomas_Davis_Sr." title="Thomas Davis Sr.">Thomas Davis Sr.</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Jamie_Collins_Sr." class="mw-redirect" title="Jamie Collins Sr.">Jamie Collins Sr.</a> be moved back to their original titles. The majority of sources don't use the suffixes when referring to these players. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z-Names" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:08, 23 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z-Names"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z-Names"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T05:19:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"></span>Yes, they do. Case in point, <a href="/wiki/Steve_Smith_Sr." title="Steve Smith Sr.">Steve Smith Sr.</a>. All of them have jerseys that reflect their suffixes and their own player profiles have reflected that as well <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/15830/jamie-collins-sr">[9]</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/15072/marvin-jones-jr">[10]</a> There ought to be consistency. Unless you want to move <a href="/wiki/Steve_Smith_Sr." title="Steve Smith Sr.">Steve Smith Sr.</a> to [[Steve Smith (football)}, all the suffixes should stay.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Certified_Gangsta&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Certified Gangsta (page does not exist)">Certified Gangsta</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Certified_Gangsta" title="User talk:Certified Gangsta">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T05:19:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:19, 23 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T05:19:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T05:19:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-11-23T05:29:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T05:19:00.000Z"></span>No comment on these specific cases. However, we use COMMONNAME; they do not all need to consistently add (or remove) the suffix. However, since removing the suffix leaves an ambiguous name, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NATURALDIS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NATURALDIS">WP:NATURALDIS</a> also needs to be considered.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-11-23T05:29:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T05:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:29, 23 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-11-23T05:29:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T05:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-11-23T05:29:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T05:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T06:16:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-11-23T05:29:00.000Z"></span>Note that I left Terrelle Pryor and several others alone because there isn't another Terrelle Pryor with a Wikipedia article. All the ones I moved are made in accordance to the precedent set by <a href="/wiki/Steve_Smith_Sr." title="Steve Smith Sr.">Steve Smith Sr.</a>--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Certified_Gangsta&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Certified Gangsta (page does not exist)">Certified Gangsta</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Certified_Gangsta" title="User talk:Certified Gangsta">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T06:16:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-11-23T05:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:16, 23 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T06:16:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-11-23T05:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-23T06:16:00.000Z-Bagumba-2017-11-23T05:29:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-11-23T22:51:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"></span>Agreed. We should be going with their common name, not just whatever name they happen to go with on the back of their jersey. <a href="/wiki/Odell_Beckham_Jr." title="Odell Beckham Jr.">Odell Beckham Jr.</a> is constantly refereed to by sources with the Jr., while Terrelle Pryor Sr. and all three other examples in the OP aren't. I don't think we should be forcing this due to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NATURALDIS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NATURALDIS">WP:NATURALDIS</a> either, as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a> should supersede that. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-11-23T22:51:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:51, 23 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-11-23T22:51:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-11-23T22:51:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-23T05:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-23T22:51:00.000Z"></span>That's just patently false. Just as many people call him Odell Beckham WITHOUT Jr. and I heard just as many people say Marvin Jones JR. and Jamies Collins SR. Perhaps you don't watch enough games. When Steve Smith added SR to his name, people started calling him Steve Smith SR. The same thing is playing out with Collins and others. This whole <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a> rationale is clearly just your personal preference. One isn't more "common" than the other just because you say so.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Certified_Gangsta&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Certified Gangsta (page does not exist)">Certified Gangsta</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Certified_Gangsta" title="User talk:Certified Gangsta">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-23T22:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:04, 24 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-23T22:51:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2017-11-23T22:51:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:07:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:04:00.000Z"></span>Btw WikiProject isn't the right venue to discuss this. OP should've brought this to individual article talkpages, so non-project members and the community at large can weigh in. In fact, by bringing this to the WikiProject, OP is in danger of violating <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CANVASS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CANVASS">WP:CANVASS</a>.--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Certified_Gangsta&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Certified Gangsta (page does not exist)">Certified Gangsta</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Certified_Gangsta" title="User talk:Certified Gangsta">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:07:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:07, 24 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:07:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:07:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2017-11-24T14:11:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:07:00.000Z"></span>There's no reason to suspect this project would be biased one way or another, so CANVASS shouldn't be a concern. Probably best to take it to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RM">WP:RM</a> if anyone is interested in a change.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2017-11-24T14:11:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 24 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2017-11-24T14:11:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:07:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2017-11-24T14:11:00.000Z-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-24T03:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks-2017-11-26T22:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks-2017-11-26T22:40:00.000Z"></span>Recruitment for 2018 WikiProject American football tasks<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks-2017-11-26T22:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jd22292-2017-11-26T22:40:00.000Z-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks"></span>In 2017, I took the honor of helping update standings table for American [indoor] football leagues outside NFL (i.e. <a href="/wiki/Arena_Football_League" title="Arena Football League">Arena Football League</a>, <a href="/wiki/Indoor_Football_League" title="Indoor Football League">Indoor Football League</a> and <a href="/wiki/Champions_Indoor_Football" title="Champions Indoor Football">Champions Indoor Football</a> to name a few). Since I only wanted to do this for 2017, I'd like to see if I can recruit a few individuals from this WikiProject who are willing to do the same for 2018 standings tables during the NFL offseason (I plan on retiring from Wikipedia during these leagues' seasons anyway.) <a href="/wiki/User:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jd22292">jd22292</a> <span style="background-color:#368ec9; color:black; font-family:Papyrus">(Jalen D. Folf)</span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Jd22292">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jd22292" title="Special:Contributions/Jd22292">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jd22292-2017-11-26T22:40:00.000Z-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:40, 26 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jd22292-2017-11-26T22:40:00.000Z-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jd22292-2017-11-26T22:40:00.000Z-Recruitment_for_2018_WikiProject_American_football_tasks"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proposed_template_merging" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposed_template_merging-2017-11-27T01:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proposed_template_merging-2017-11-27T01:55:00.000Z"></span>Proposed template merging<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proposed_template_merging-2017-11-27T01:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-11-27T01:55:00.000Z-Proposed_template_merging"></span>I noticed the near similarities between Infobox NFL and Infobox league season. Has anyone considered a merging of the two templates (and also Infobox Sports season, if necessary)?<a href="/wiki/User:Zacchaeusbarbour" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Zacchaeusbarbour">Z.I. Barbour</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zacchaeusbarbour" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Zacchaeusbarbour">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-11-27T01:55:00.000Z-Proposed_template_merging" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:55, 27 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-11-27T01:55:00.000Z-Proposed_template_merging"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zacchaeusbarbour-2017-11-27T01:55:00.000Z-Proposed_template_merging"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="List_of_D-III_draft_picks" data-mw-thread-id="h-List_of_D-III_draft_picks-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-List_of_D-III_draft_picks-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z"></span>List of D-III draft picks<span data-mw-comment-end="h-List_of_D-III_draft_picks-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mnnlaxer-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z-List_of_D-III_draft_picks"></span>Hey Project NFL, I recently cleaned up the <a href="/wiki/Division_III" class="mw-redirect" title="Division III">Division III</a> article and it some overly detailed info on D-III draft picks. I'll park it here if anyone wants to use it. </p> <table class="wikitable"> <tbody><tr> <th>Year Drafted</th> <th>Name</th> <th>Position</th> <th>College Attended</th> <th>Team Drafted By</th> <th>Round and Number Drafted </th></tr> <tr> <td>2015</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Ali_Marpet" title="Ali Marpet">Ali Marpet</a></td> <td>OL</td> <td>Hobart</td> <td>Buccaneers</td> <td>2–61 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2012</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Chris_Greenwood" title="Chris Greenwood">Chris Greenwood</a></td> <td>CB</td> <td>Albion</td> <td>Lions</td> <td>5-148 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2011</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Cecil_Shorts" title="Cecil Shorts">Cecil Shorts</a></td> <td>WR</td> <td>Mount Union</td> <td>Jaguars</td> <td>4–114 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2008</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Andy_Studebaker" title="Andy Studebaker">Andy Studebaker</a></td> <td>DE/LB</td> <td>Wheaton (Ill.)</td> <td>Eagles</td> <td>6-203 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2008</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Pierre_Gar%C3%A7on" title="Pierre Garçon">Pierre Garçon</a></td> <td>WR</td> <td>Mount Union</td> <td>Colts</td> <td>6-205 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2007</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Michael_Allan" title="Michael Allan">Michael Allan</a></td> <td>TE</td> <td>Whitworth</td> <td>Chiefs</td> <td>7-231 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2007</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Derek_Stanley" title="Derek Stanley">Derek Stanley</a></td> <td>WR/RET</td> <td>UW-Whitewater</td> <td>Rams</td> <td>7-249 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2003</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Ryan_Hoag" title="Ryan Hoag">Ryan Hoag</a></td> <td>WR</td> <td>Gustavus Adolphus</td> <td>Raiders</td> <td>7-262 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2002</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Tony_Beckham" title="Tony Beckham">Tony Beckham</a></td> <td>CB</td> <td>UW-Stout</td> <td>Titans</td> <td>4–115 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2002</td> <td>Michael Coleman</td> <td>WR</td> <td>Widener</td> <td>Falcons</td> <td>7-217 </td></tr> <tr> <td>2000</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Tim_Watson_(American_football)" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Tim Watson (American football)">Tim Watson</a></td> <td>DE</td> <td>Rowan</td> <td>Seahawks</td> <td>6-185 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1999</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Clint_Kriewaldt" title="Clint Kriewaldt">Clint Kriewaldt</a></td> <td>LB</td> <td>UW-Stevens Point</td> <td>Lions</td> <td>6-177 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1996</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Ethan_Brooks" title="Ethan Brooks">Ethan Brooks</a></td> <td>OL</td> <td>Williams</td> <td>Falcons</td> <td>7-229 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1994</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Bill_Schroeder" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Bill Schroeder">Bill Schroeder</a></td> <td>WR</td> <td>UW-La Crosse</td> <td>Packers</td> <td>6-181 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1992</td> <td>Nate Kirtman</td> <td>DB</td> <td>Pomona-Pitzer</td> <td>Cowboys</td> <td>9-248 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1992</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Barry_Rose_(American_football)" title="Barry Rose (American football)">Barry Rose</a></td> <td>WR</td> <td>UW-Stevens Point</td> <td>Bills</td> <td>10-279 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1991</td> <td>Pete Lucas</td> <td>OL</td> <td>UW-Stevens Point</td> <td>Falcons</td> <td>10-258 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1991</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Larry_Wanke" title="Larry Wanke">Larry Wanke</a></td> <td>QB</td> <td>John Carroll</td> <td>Giants</td> <td>12-334 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1990</td> <td><a href="/wiki/Chris_Warren_(American_football)" title="Chris Warren (American football)">Chris Warren</a></td> <td>RB</td> <td>Ferrum</td> <td>Seahawks</td> <td>4-89 </td></tr> <tr> <td>1988</td> <td>Erwin Grabisna</td> <td>LB</td> <td>Case Western Reserve</td> <td>Raiders</td> <td>6-143 </td></tr> </tbody></table> <p>Skol Vikings! - <a href="/wiki/User:Mnnlaxer" title="User:Mnnlaxer">Mnnlaxer</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mnnlaxer" title="User talk:Mnnlaxer"><span style="font-weight:normal">talk</span></a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mnnlaxer" title="Special:Contributions/Mnnlaxer">stalk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Mnnlaxer-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z-List_of_D-III_draft_picks" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:38, 26 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mnnlaxer-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z-List_of_D-III_draft_picks"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mnnlaxer-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z-List_of_D-III_draft_picks"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-27T06:50:00.000Z-Mnnlaxer-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z"></span>Nice! Keep up the good work!--<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Certified_Gangsta&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Certified Gangsta (page does not exist)">Certified Gangsta</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Certified_Gangsta" title="User talk:Certified Gangsta">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-27T06:50:00.000Z-Mnnlaxer-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:50, 27 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-27T06:50:00.000Z-Mnnlaxer-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Certified_Gangsta-2017-11-27T06:50:00.000Z-Mnnlaxer-2017-11-26T06:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_table" data-mw-thread-id="h-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_tab-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_tab-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"></span>Is it possible to have the draft year field produce a column in an NFL draft table<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_tab-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_tab"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1235781174">.mw-parser-output .hmbox-outer{margin-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .hmbox-inner{display:inline-block;color:var(--color-base,#202122);border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-interactive-subtle,#f8f9fa);margin-right:0.5em;padding:0.3em 0.5em}</style><div role="note" class="hmbox-outer resolved"><div class="hmbox-inner"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/30px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/40px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Resolved</div></div> <p>I am trying to produce an NFL draftee table for a high school coach (<a href="/wiki/Thomas_Wilcher#Coaching" title="Thomas Wilcher">Thomas_Wilcher#Coaching</a>) who has had 5 players drafted in the NFL draft. I can't get the draft year field to produce an NFL draft year column.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_tab" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:04, 30 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_tab"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z-Is_it_possible_to_have_the_draft_year_field_produce_a_column_in_an_NFL_draft_tab"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:11:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"></span>You might be better off just creating your own table from scratch. In the example on the Thomas Wilcher article, you can't really tell what that color coding stands for, so that by itself might make it worth using your own table. I could convert that table if you wanted. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:11:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:11, 30 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:11:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:11:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:18:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:11:00.000Z"></span>I'd appreciate that.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:18:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:18, 30 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:18:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:18:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:43:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"></span>Thanks.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:43:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:43, 30 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:43:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:43:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:04:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:44:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:43:00.000Z"></span>Welcome. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:44:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:44, 30 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:44:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-11-30T03:44:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T03:43:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer" data-mw-thread-id="h-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z"></span>college infobox information for graduate transfer<span data-mw-comment-end="h-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer"></span>Should the <a href="/wiki/Blake_Countess" title="Blake Countess">Blake Countess</a> infobox include Michigan. He spent 4 years (3 years of eligibility) there before being a graduate transfer at Auburn. He earned First team All-Big Ten at Michigan in 2013 and honorable mention in 2014. He made no mark at Auburn, but the infobox does not mention Michigan.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 30 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-30T20:09:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z"></span>The project seems to be split on this issue. I’m of the opinion that all colleges a player attended should be listed, not just the one they were drafted from. <a href="/wiki/Elroy_Hirsch" title="Elroy Hirsch">Elroy Hirsch</a> was drafted out of Michigan and his number is retired by Wisconsin, so leaving Wisconsin out of the infobox would be silly. Maybe we can agree to make exceptions for players who made a significant impact at more than one college. I’d say <a href="/wiki/Russell_Wilson" title="Russell Wilson">Russell Wilson</a> also fits that bill. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-30T20:09:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:09, 30 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-30T20:09:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-30T20:09:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-11-30T20:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-11-30T22:05:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-30T20:09:00.000Z"></span>If someone had significant playing time as a starter at two different schools, both schools be listed. If a player had significant playing time as a starter only at one school, I'd be fine with listing only that school. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-11-30T22:05:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-30T20:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:05, 30 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-11-30T22:05:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-30T20:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-11-30T22:05:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-11-30T20:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:32:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-11-30T22:05:00.000Z"></span>Lizard the Wizard</a>, you say "the project seems to be split". Does that mean that this has been previously hashed out. I see no contrary opinion in this thread so far.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:32:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-11-30T22:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:32, 1 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:32:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-11-30T22:05:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:32:00.000Z-Cbl62-2017-11-30T22:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:32:00.000Z"></span>See <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#NFL_biography_infobox">this discussion here</a> from a few months ago. <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Crash_Underride" title="User:Crash Underride">Crash Underride</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Kmanblue" title="User:Kmanblue">Kmanblue</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N.">Tarl N.</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:UW_Dawgs" title="User:UW Dawgs">UW Dawgs</a>:</span> Pinging editors from that discussion to see if we can finally reach a consensus. Should we (1) list all colleges, (2) list college drafted from, or (3) take it case-by-case? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:44, 1 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:32:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T04:54:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z"></span>All colleges for which they are listed as a letterman. This is obvious. <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T04:54:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:54, 1 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T04:54:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T04:54:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:59:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T04:54:00.000Z"></span>That is probably the proper standard.--<a href="/wiki/User:TonyTheTiger" title="User:TonyTheTiger">TonyTheTiger</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TonyTheTiger" title="User talk:TonyTheTiger">T</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger" title="Special:Contributions/TonyTheTiger">C</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FOUR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FOUR">WP:FOUR</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHICAGO" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHICAGO">WP:CHICAGO</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WAWARD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WAWARD">WP:WAWARD</a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:59:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T04:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:59, 1 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:59:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T04:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:59:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T04:54:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T05:00:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:59:00.000Z"></span>I've edited the <a href="/wiki/Russell_Wilson" title="Russell Wilson">Russell Wilson</a> and <a href="/wiki/Blake_Countess" title="Blake Countess">Blake Countess</a> articles accordingly. <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T05:00:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 1 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T05:00:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-01T05:00:00.000Z-TonyTheTiger-2017-12-01T04:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T19:58:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z"></span>The purpose of the infobox is a <b>quick</b> summary, not a comprehensive listing. I believe the correct college to list for a professional player is the one that was most relevant to getting hired as a professional. Normally, that would be the last school played at. Sometimes it may be different - e.g., if the player earned the Heisman at one school, and then went on to graduate school but didn't do anything significant on the field there before getting drafted, the reason for his being drafted was probably the previous school, and thus that's the one that should be listed in the infobox. Again, the infobox is a <u><b>quick</b></u> summary, so should contain the most important items, not be a comprehensive listing. The comprehensive listings belong in the article itself. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T19:58:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:58, 1 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T19:58:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T19:58:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T04:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T20:26:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T19:58:00.000Z"></span>So you don't think there's any scenario in which listing 2 colleges would be appropriate? Which college would you say <a href="/wiki/Russell_Wilson" title="Russell Wilson">Russell Wilson</a> had a greater impact at? <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T20:26:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T19:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 1 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T20:26:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T19:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T20:26:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T19:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T20:56:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T20:26:00.000Z"></span>There may be a case where you can't tell, in which case <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IAR">WP:IAR</a>. However, as far as Wilson is concerned, I don't think there's any reason to debate that the school that should be listed is Wisconsin. His stay at NC State, however notable, did not attract NFL attention, which indicates his year at Wisconsin is what tipped the balance. But we're nitpicking; the Infobox is for a quick summary, it is not (or should not be) an exhaustive listing. Indeed, I'd suggest that the highschool listing is largely meaningless. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T20:56:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T20:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:56, 1 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T20:56:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T20:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T20:56:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-01T20:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T02:54:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T20:56:00.000Z"></span>Attracting NFL draft attention is irrelevant. Merely lettering at school is sufficient to warrant inclusion in the infobox. It's a key element of player's football biography. <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T02:54:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T20:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:54, 2 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T02:54:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T20:56:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T02:54:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-01T20:56:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2017-12-02T02:58:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T02:54:00.000Z"></span>On reflection, I support Jweiss' position on this. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2017-12-02T02:58:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T02:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 2 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2017-12-02T02:58:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T02:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2017-12-02T02:58:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T02:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:05:00.000Z-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer"></span> Yeah and honestly, if we're looking to trim a few lines from infoboxes there's much lower hanging fruit. Such as conference championships in the highlights section for players. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:05:00.000Z-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:05, 2 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:05:00.000Z-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:05:00.000Z-college_infobox_information_for_graduate_transfer"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T03:30:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:05:00.000Z"></span>Lizard, junior high school hurdling championships should stay though! <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T03:30:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:30, 2 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T03:30:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:05:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T03:30:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Artie_Burns" title="Artie Burns"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:48:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T03:30:00.000Z"></span>Looks like he finally gave up</a>. Good riddance. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:48:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T03:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:48, 2 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:48:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T03:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2017-12-02T03:48:00.000Z-Jweiss11-2017-12-02T03:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject" data-mw-thread-id="h-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject-2017-12-03T17:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject-2017-12-03T17:35:00.000Z"></span>Disambiguation links on pages tagged by this wikiproject<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject-2017-12-03T17:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rodw-2017-12-03T17:35:00.000Z-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject"></span>Wikipedia has many thousands of wikilinks which point to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia:Disambiguation">disambiguation</a> pages. It would be useful to readers if these links directed them to the specific pages of interest, rather than making them search through a list. Members of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Disambiguation">WikiProject Disambiguation</a> have been working on this and the total number is now below 20,000 for the first time. Some of these links require specialist knowledge of the topics concerned and therefore it would be great if you could help in your area of expertise. </p><p>A list of the relevant links on pages which fall within the remit of this wikiproject can be found at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_National_Football_League">http://69.142.160.183/~dispenser/cgi-bin/topic_points.py?banner=WikiProject_National_Football_League</a> </p><p>Please take a few minutes to help make these more useful to our readers.— <a href="/wiki/User:Rodw" title="User:Rodw">Rod</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rodw" title="User talk:Rodw">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rodw-2017-12-03T17:35:00.000Z-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:35, 3 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rodw-2017-12-03T17:35:00.000Z-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rodw-2017-12-03T17:35:00.000Z-Disambiguation_links_on_pages_tagged_by_this_wikiproject"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings" data-mw-thread-id="h-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z"></span>Assistance requested at <a href="/wiki/Template:2017_AFC_standings" title="Template:2017 AFC standings">Template:2017 AFC standings</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jd22292-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings"></span>There's an IP being disruptive and changing the rankings against NFL tiebreakers at the template. I need assistance in reverting their continued disruption. Please also see their Talk page for their supposed reasoning. <a href="/wiki/User:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jd22292">jd22292</a> <span style="background-color:#368ec9; color:black; font-family:Papyrus">(Jalen D. Folf)</span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Jd22292">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jd22292" title="Special:Contributions/Jd22292">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jd22292-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 3 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jd22292-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jd22292-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z-Assistance_requested_at_Template:2017_AFC_standings"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jd22292-2017-12-03T19:28:00.000Z-Jd22292-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z"></span>I've submitted a report <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:2.87.53.178_reported_by_User:Jd22292_(Result:_)">here</a>. They're still making the edit. <a href="/wiki/User:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jd22292">jd22292</a> <span style="background-color:#368ec9; color:black; font-family:Papyrus">(Jalen D. Folf)</span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Jd22292">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jd22292" title="Special:Contributions/Jd22292">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jd22292-2017-12-03T19:28:00.000Z-Jd22292-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 3 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jd22292-2017-12-03T19:28:00.000Z-Jd22292-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jd22292-2017-12-03T19:28:00.000Z-Jd22292-2017-12-03T18:55:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-04T04:17:00.000Z-Jd22292-2017-12-03T19:28:00.000Z"></span>At least part of the argument seems to be the distinction between standings and playoff seeds. Kansas City is (for the moment) 4th seed in the AFC Playoff standings, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.nfl.com/playoffs/playoff-picture">here</a>, but seems to stands 6th in the AFC as far as raw ranking (at 6-6 behind behind Jaguars and Ravens at 8-4 and 7-5). Perhaps the article needs some clarification as to exactly what is being stated? <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-04T04:17:00.000Z-Jd22292-2017-12-03T19:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 4 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-04T04:17:00.000Z-Jd22292-2017-12-03T19:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-04T04:17:00.000Z-Jd22292-2017-12-03T19:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2017-12-04T08:17:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-04T04:17:00.000Z"></span>We should be going with the standard playoff standings/seeding, not just listed by raw win percentage. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><span style="color:#660000;"><i><b>Dissident93</b></i></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><span style="color:#D18719;"><i><b>talk</b></i></span></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2017-12-04T08:17:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-04T04:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:17, 4 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2017-12-04T08:17:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-04T04:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2017-12-04T08:17:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2017-12-04T04:17:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Zach_Miller" data-mw-thread-id="h-Zach_Miller-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Zach_Miller-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z"></span>Zach Miller<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Zach_Miller-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jauerback-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z-Zach_Miller"></span>Currently, there are two people with the name of Zach Miller that have Wikipedia articles. Of course, both are (or were) NFL players. And, to add to the fun, they both play(ed) tight-end. Because of this, their article names... suck: </p> <ul><li><span id="Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)" title="Zach Miller (tight end, born 1984)">Zach Miller (tight end, born 1984)</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)" title="Special:EditPage/Zach Miller (tight end, born 1984)">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)" title="Talk:Zach Miller (tight end, born 1984)">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)" title="Special:PageHistory/Zach Miller (tight end, born 1984)">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)" title="Special:ProtectPage/Zach Miller (tight end, born 1984)">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)" title="Special:DeletePage/Zach Miller (tight end, born 1984)">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Zach+Miller+%28tight+end%2C+born+1984%29">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1984)&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span></li> <li><span id="Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)" title="Zach Miller (tight end, born 1985)">Zach Miller (tight end, born 1985)</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)" title="Special:EditPage/Zach Miller (tight end, born 1985)">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)" title="Talk:Zach Miller (tight end, born 1985)">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)" title="Special:PageHistory/Zach Miller (tight end, born 1985)">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)" title="Special:ProtectPage/Zach Miller (tight end, born 1985)">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)" title="Special:DeletePage/Zach Miller (tight end, born 1985)">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Zach+Miller+%28tight+end%2C+born+1985%29">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Zach_Miller_(tight_end,_born_1985)&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span></li></ul> <p>Everything is set up correctly to help the user get to the correct article. There is a <a href="/wiki/Zach_Miller" class="mw-disambig" title="Zach Miller">disambiguation page</a> and each have a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HATNOTE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HATNOTE">hatnote</a> on their pages to direct users to the other article. However, if you don't hit the disambiguation page first after searching, you've got a 50/50 shot of getting to the right article, unless you happen to know their birth years (1984 or 1985), which is unlikely. The problem is, I don't have a solution to make it easier. Although their middle names are different, users aren't any more likely to know that, either. Maybe there isn't better idea and we're stuck with what we got, but I'd at least thought I try to get some other opinions. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Jauerback" title="User:Jauerback">Jauerback</a></b><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jauerback" title="User talk:Jauerback">dude?</a></sup>/<sub><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jauerback" title="Special:Contributions/Jauerback">dude.</a></sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jauerback-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z-Zach_Miller" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:36, 8 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jauerback-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z-Zach_Miller"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jauerback-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z-Zach_Miller"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:40:00.000Z-Jauerback-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z"></span>Unfortunately, it seems like this is the best solution available. Adding their middle names would violate <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a>, so using their positions and birth years makes the most sense. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:40:00.000Z-Jauerback-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 23 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:40:00.000Z-Jauerback-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:40:00.000Z-Jauerback-2017-12-08T20:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft" data-mw-thread-id="h-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z"></span>Questions moved from <a href="/wiki/National_Football_League_draft" class="mw-redirect" title="National Football League draft">National Football League draft</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T11:33:00.000Z-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft"></span>Moving them here as I think there's more chance of them being seen. Anyone helping a Limey understand is a quite splendid person. Tootlepip. --<a href="/wiki/User:Dweller" title="User:Dweller">Dweller</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dweller" title="User talk:Dweller">talk</a>) <small>Become <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Old_Fashioned_Wikipedian_Values" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Old Fashioned Wikipedian Values">old fashioned!</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dweller-2017-12-15T11:33:00.000Z-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:33, 15 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T11:33:00.000Z-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T11:33:00.000Z-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Puzzled_re_salaries" data-mw-thread-id="h-Puzzled_re_salaries-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Puzzled_re_salaries-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z"></span>Puzzled re salaries<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Puzzled_re_salaries-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z-Puzzled_re_salaries"></span>According to [<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_Draft#Salaries">[11]</a>] there's a pre-set salary that the drafted players will earn. So why would Stafford have been offered a vast amount of money when they could have signed him for the usual amount? It's not like he could have gone to a different team. --<a href="/wiki/User:Dweller" title="User:Dweller">Dweller</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dweller" title="User talk:Dweller">talk</a>) <small>Become <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Old_Fashioned_Wikipedian_Values" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Old Fashioned Wikipedian Values">old fashioned!</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z-Puzzled_re_salaries" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:08, 15 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z-Puzzled_re_salaries"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:08:00.000Z-Puzzled_re_salaries"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="What_happens...?" data-mw-thread-id="h-What_happens...?-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"><span id="What_happens....3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-What_happens...?-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"></span>What happens...?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-What_happens...?-Questions_moved_from_National_Football_League_draft-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z-What_happens...?"></span>I'm fascinated by the draft, because it's so unlike anything that happens in British sports. For the same reason, I'm pretty clueless about it, so forgive me if these questions are stupid, but I couldn't see them covered in the article. </p><p>What happens if a player really doesn't want to play for the team that picks him? For instance, he hates cold weather and gets picked by Buffalo. Or he dislikes the style of football they play. Or he doesn't want to live so far away from his disabled parents. The system seems to pay no heed to individuals' preferences. Is there a mechanism for these things? </p><p>Is there criticism of the draft (not mentioned in article) on these grounds? Has it even been tested in law? --<a href="/wiki/User:Dweller" title="User:Dweller">Dweller</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dweller" title="User talk:Dweller">talk</a>) <small>Become <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Old_Fashioned_Wikipedian_Values" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Old Fashioned Wikipedian Values">old fashioned!</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z-What_happens...?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:14, 15 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z-What_happens...?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z-What_happens...?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-15T13:47:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"></span>The answer to both questions is that the player does have some autonomy. He doesn't have to accept the offer from the team which drafted him. This is known as holding out. A notable example was <a href="/wiki/John_Elway" title="John Elway">John Elway</a>, who was drafted by the <a href="/wiki/Baltimore_Colts" title="Baltimore Colts">Baltimore Colts</a>. The Colts' coach at the time, <a href="/wiki/Frank_Kush" title="Frank Kush">Frank Kush</a>, was notorious for ill-treating his players. Elway said he would either play baseball or go to medical school. He was traded to Denver, a better situation. Other players have delayed signing their contracts, which messes up training camp schedules.</dd> <dd>As for being tested in the courts, the draft is only of players who have signed a detailed contract which specifies the conditions, including that they have no control over which team selects them. I don't have any specific knowledge of this, but I tend to doubt a court would meddle in that contract. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><span style="color:green;"><b>Tarl N.</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal;">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-15T13:47:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:47, 15 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-15T13:47:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2017-12-15T13:47:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-15T15:26:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"></span>To answer your questions, in the case of Stafford, the so-called "slotting system" for pre-assigned draft pick salaries didn't exist before the <a href="/wiki/2011_NFL_Draft" class="mw-redirect" title="2011 NFL Draft">2011 NFL Draft</a> (this is why <a href="/wiki/Sam_Bradford" title="Sam Bradford">Sam Bradford</a>, the #1 pick in <a href="/wiki/2010_NFL_Draft" class="mw-redirect" title="2010 NFL Draft">2010</a>, is sometimes deridingly referred to as the league's final "bonus baby"), so, before then players could "hold out" for more money from the team that drafted them. <a href="/wiki/JaMarcus_Russell" title="JaMarcus Russell">JaMarcus Russell</a> would be a good example of this. Which, leads us to your second question; it doesn't happen often, but sometimes, for one reason or another, a team and a draft pick are unable to come together on a contract. <a href="/wiki/John_Elway" title="John Elway">John Elway</a>, <a href="/wiki/Tom_Cousineau" title="Tom Cousineau">Tom Cousineau</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Eli_Manning" title="Eli Manning">Eli Manning</a> would be examples of this. The problem for these players is that no NFL team would ever attempt to sign another team's unsigned draft pick. So, these players either have to go to another league to play (like Cousineau in the <a href="/wiki/Canadian_Football_League" title="Canadian Football League">CFL</a>) or have another team arrange to work out a trade for their draft rights with the team that drafted them (like Elway and Manning). I think it's also worth noting that the draft system is not unique to the NFL, all of major North American pro sports (<a href="/wiki/National_Football_League" title="National Football League">NFL</a>, <a href="/wiki/Major_League_Baseball" title="Major League Baseball">MLB</a>, <a href="/wiki/National_Basketball_Association" title="National Basketball Association">NBA</a>, & <a href="/wiki/National_Hockey_League" title="National Hockey League">NHL</a>) use very similar systems. <a href="/wiki/User:Ejgreen77" title="User:Ejgreen77">Ejgreen77</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ejgreen77" title="User talk:Ejgreen77">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-15T15:26:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:26, 15 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-15T15:26:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-15T15:26:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-15T09:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dweller-2017-12-18T14:27:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-15T15:26:00.000Z"></span>Thanks for some helpful replies. I understand better as a result. Re "no NFL team would ever attempt to sign another team's unsigned draft pick" does that mean all the other teams know who the other teams are going to sign? So is this thing a secret only from the general public? --<a href="/wiki/User:Dweller" title="User:Dweller">Dweller</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dweller" title="User talk:Dweller">talk</a>) <small>Become <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Old_Fashioned_Wikipedian_Values" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Old Fashioned Wikipedian Values">old fashioned!</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dweller-2017-12-18T14:27:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-15T15:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:27, 18 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dweller-2017-12-18T14:27:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-15T15:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dweller-2017-12-18T14:27:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-15T15:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-12-18T21:38:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-18T14:27:00.000Z"></span>I think that statement that "no NFL team would ever attempt to sign another team's unsigned draft pick" may be kind of misleading. This is because players are only allowed to sign with the team that drafted them. No other team could sign them if they wanted to. Also, all of the draft picks are public. There is no secret as to what players were drafted. Also, if a player doesn't want to sign with the team that drafted them, then they must either hope to have their rights traded by that team or sit out the season and re-enter the next draft. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-12-18T21:38:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-18T14:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 18 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-12-18T21:38:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-18T14:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2017-12-18T21:38:00.000Z-Dweller-2017-12-18T14:27:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:10:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-12-18T21:38:00.000Z"></span>Yes, what I meant is that the NFL would penalize a team that just went rogue and tried to sign another team's draft pick. Also, there's nothing secret about the draft - it's broadcast live on national TV. <a href="/wiki/User:Ejgreen77" title="User:Ejgreen77">Ejgreen77</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ejgreen77" title="User talk:Ejgreen77">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:10:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-12-18T21:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 23 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:10:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-12-18T21:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:10:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2017-12-18T21:38:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:42:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:10:00.000Z"></span>Nothing secret? It's all secret until the picks are revealed! – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:42:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 23 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:42:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:10:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:42:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:10:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:51:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:42:00.000Z"></span>Well, yeah, obviously, the pre-draft process is full of intrigue. But, the draft itself is broadcast live on national TV and the selections are announced live on the air. Everyone knows who everyone else's draft picks are the moment they are made. <a href="/wiki/User:Ejgreen77" title="User:Ejgreen77">Ejgreen77</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ejgreen77" title="User talk:Ejgreen77">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:51:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:51, 23 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:51:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:42:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:51:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2017-12-23T21:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:24:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:51:00.000Z"></span>A team can't even hope to sign another's draft pick, or they would get busted with tampering charges for no reason. They can however, request a trade for them (like the case with Elway), but that decision rests on whoever owns the player's draft rights. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><b style="color: #660000;"><i>Dissident93</i></b></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><b style="color: #D18719;"><i>talk</i></b></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:24:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 3 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:24:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:51:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:24:00.000Z-Ejgreen77-2017-12-23T21:51:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists-2018-01-05T18:32:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists-2018-01-05T18:32:00.000Z"></span>Hierarchy of organizational templates at bottom of NFL season lists<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists-2018-01-05T18:32:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-IanManka-2018-01-05T18:32:00.000Z-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists"></span>I was looking through a few NFL season lists, and I noticed there's no consistent order between <a href="/wiki/Template:NFL_team_season_lists" title="Template:NFL team season lists">Template:NFL team season lists</a>, the team-specific template (e.g. <a href="/wiki/Template:San_Francisco_49ers" title="Template:San Francisco 49ers">Template:San Francisco 49ers</a>), and the team-specific seasons table of contents (e.g. <a href="/wiki/Template:San_Francisco_49ers_seasons" title="Template:San Francisco 49ers seasons">Template:San Francisco 49ers seasons</a>). Is there supposed to be a consistent order? I would think it would make the most sense to list the NFL team season lists template at the top, then the team-specific season list, then the team at the bottom, but was curious to see what others thought. If you have any questions, please contact me at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:IanManka" title="User talk:IanManka">my talk page</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:IanManka" title="User:IanManka">Ian Manka</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-IanManka-2018-01-05T18:32:00.000Z-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 5 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-IanManka-2018-01-05T18:32:00.000Z-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-IanManka-2018-01-05T18:32:00.000Z-Hierarchy_of_organizational_templates_at_bottom_of_NFL_season_lists"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations" data-mw-thread-id="h-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z"></span>Rams and Chargers abbreviations<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations"></span>Was there any discussion regarding the abbreviations of the Los Angeles Rams and Los Angeles Chargers at <a href="/wiki/Template:NFL_Roster_navbox_template_list" title="Template:NFL Roster navbox template list">Template:NFL Roster navbox template list</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:NFL_Roster_template_list" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NFL Roster template list">Template:NFL Roster template list</a> and <a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:NFL_staff_footer&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:NFL staff footer (page does not exist)">Template:NFL staff footer</a>? While these templates use "LAC" for the Chargers, which is correct, I see that they incorrectly use "LAR" for the Rams, despite every official NFL source using "LA". Even the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://nflcommunications.com/Documents/2017%20Rulebook.pdf#page=88">2017 NFL Rulebook</a> clearly states that "LA" should be used instead of "LAR" as we can see in the templates. "LA is confusing for people" should not be the justification for going against official sources. Any thoughts? – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:34, 3 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z-Rams_and_Chargers_abbreviations"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:20:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z"></span>We should be going with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a> in all cases, not official. I disagree on using LA over LAR due to the Chargers existing there. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><b style="color: #660000;"><i>Dissident93</i></b></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><b style="color: #D18719;"><i>talk</i></b></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:20:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 3 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:20:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:20:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-03T17:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-03T21:58:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:20:00.000Z"></span>I might agree, but you would first need to confirm that "LAR" is the common abbreviation for the Los Angeles Rams. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-03T21:58:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:58, 3 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-03T21:58:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-03T21:58:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-03T19:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:41:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-03T21:58:00.000Z"></span>And that would be hard since very few websites use abbreviations for NFL teams. The NFL Rulebook is the best source since most of the information is taken directly from NFL and its sources. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:41:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-03T21:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:41, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:41:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-03T21:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:41:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-03T21:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-07T10:31:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:41:00.000Z"></span>But if it's not in common usage, it doesn't matter. Just linking it as LA when there are two teams based in the city isn't helpful to anybody, despite any official status from the league. Just keep it status quo, as this is a non issue. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><b style="color: #660000;"><i>Dissident93</i></b></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><b style="color: #D18719;"><i>talk</i></b></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2018-01-07T10:31:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:31, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-07T10:31:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:41:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2018-01-07T10:31:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-07T11:18:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-07T10:31:00.000Z"></span>Agree that "LA" is unnecessarily ambiguous. FWIW, ESPN used "LAR" <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400999171">here</a>.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-07T11:18:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-07T10:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:18, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-07T11:18:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-07T10:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-07T11:18:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-07T10:31:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages" data-mw-thread-id="h-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z"></span>Blacklisted links on old season pages<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jd22292-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages"></span>Is there anyone here that's willing to replace the blacklisted links on season pages before and including 2015? Mainly the pages that have actually been tagged as containing blacklisted links from WordPress among other domains. <a href="/wiki/User:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jd22292">jd22292</a> <span style="background-color:#368ec9; color:black; font-family:Papyrus">(Jalen D. Folf)</span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jd22292" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Jd22292">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Jd22292" title="Special:Contributions/Jd22292">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jd22292-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:23, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jd22292-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jd22292-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z-Blacklisted_links_on_old_season_pages"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-07T23:29:00.000Z-Jd22292-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z"></span>Is there no way to manually accept a blacklisted link? Or are they all non-negotiable for a reason? ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><b style="color: #660000;"><i>Dissident93</i></b></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><b style="color: #D18719;"><i>talk</i></b></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2018-01-07T23:29:00.000Z-Jd22292-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:29, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-07T23:29:00.000Z-Jd22292-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2018-01-07T23:29:00.000Z-Jd22292-2018-01-07T23:23:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Position_coach" data-mw-thread-id="h-Position_coach-2018-01-08T15:45:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Position_coach-2018-01-08T15:45:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Position_coach" title="Position coach">Position coach</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Position_coach-2018-01-08T15:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-El_cid,_el_campeador-2018-01-08T15:45:00.000Z-Position_coach"></span>Hey all. Formerly, pages such as <a href="/wiki/Linebackers_coach" class="mw-redirect" title="Linebackers coach">Linebackers coach</a> redirected to the position that was being coached. I just created <a href="/wiki/Position_coach" title="Position coach">Position coach</a> to kind of be the catch-all for position coaches (and changed the redirects). If anyone has input, etc, please feel free to improve the page! Best <a href="/wiki/User:El_cid,_el_campeador" title="User:El cid, el campeador"><span style="color:black"><b>‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia</b></span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:El_cid,_el_campeador" title="User talk:El cid, el campeador"><span style="color:teal">ᐐT₳LKᐬ</span></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-El_cid,_el_campeador-2018-01-08T15:45:00.000Z-Position_coach" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:45, 8 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-El_cid,_el_campeador-2018-01-08T15:45:00.000Z-Position_coach"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-El_cid,_el_campeador-2018-01-08T15:45:00.000Z-Position_coach"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z"></span>Edit war at Carolina Panthers<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span>There is currently an edit war at <a href="/wiki/Carolina_Panthers" title="Carolina Panthers">Carolina Panthers</a> page. One of the users keeps linking seasons in the infobox to the actual team's season despite every other NFL teams' infoboxes linking to the NFL season. Has there ever been a discussion about this? – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:45, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-06T17:56:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z"></span>A better explanation: this article was promoted to featured article (the only team article in the whole project to get that mark) a few years ago with links to team seasons rather than NFL ones, nobody had any issue with this until like yesterday. I have yet to see an actual reason why they <i>should not</i> link to team seasons, given it is on a team page and is specifically referencing the team's performance in seasons. In fact, I'd wager that most readers looking at the team's conference title seasons section and clicking on the links want to read about the team's season, not the league season. This is why I added links to team seasons in the inbox when I started the effort to improve the article to FA.</dd> <dd>If someone has a reason why readers would rather be linked to the NFL seasons than team seasons, I'm all ears, but I don't see a reason to change featured article content unless needed. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-06T17:56:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-06T17:56:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-06T17:56:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-06T08:45:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T22:51:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span>If you want it that way, fine. But let's be consistent with the editing here. It's make no sense for one NFL page to have it linked to the team's season while everyone else's is linked to the NFL season. If you want to do that, how about we do it to EVERY NFL team's page?--<a href="/wiki/User:GalaxyFighter55" title="User:GalaxyFighter55">GalaxyFighter55</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GalaxyFighter55" title="User talk:GalaxyFighter55">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T22:51:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:51, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T22:51:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T22:51:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:04:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T22:51:00.000Z"></span>I think linking to the team season article is more useful to readers. I'd support changing every team's infobox to team season links rather than the overly general league season links. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:04:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T22:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:04, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:04:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T22:51:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:04:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T22:51:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:07:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:04:00.000Z"></span>Me too, but we got to be consistent with linking. We can't have all the links to NFL season and three or four to team's linked to personal seasons, it's inconsistent with the rest of the league that way.<a href="/wiki/User:GalaxyFighter55" title="User:GalaxyFighter55">GalaxyFighter55</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GalaxyFighter55" title="User talk:GalaxyFighter55">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:07:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:07, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:07:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:07:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:16:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:07:00.000Z"></span>Let me link you a few teams w/ NFL seasons linked: <a href="/wiki/New_England_Patriots" title="New England Patriots">New England Patriots</a>, <a href="/wiki/Atlanta_Falcons" title="Atlanta Falcons">Atlanta Falcons</a>, <a href="/wiki/Dallas_Cowboys" title="Dallas Cowboys">Dallas Cowboys</a>, ect. Now tell me why <a href="/wiki/Carolina_Panthers" title="Carolina Panthers">Carolina Panthers</a> is the exception to this consistentcy?<a href="/wiki/User:GalaxyFighter55" title="User:GalaxyFighter55">GalaxyFighter55</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GalaxyFighter55" title="User talk:GalaxyFighter55">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:16:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:16, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:16:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:07:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:16:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:07:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:37:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:16:00.000Z"></span>Probably because it was never addressed before. Now is as good a time as any. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:37:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:37, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:37:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:37:00.000Z-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-06T23:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-07T00:55:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:37:00.000Z"></span>Consistency isn’t a reason to keep something that doesn’t make any sense. We can easily apply this new linking policy to all pages. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-07T00:55:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:55, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-07T00:55:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:37:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-07T00:55:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-06T23:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DragonFury-2018-01-07T01:38:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span>Since it might be relevant to the whole thing: The Jaguars main article links to the team season in the case of division titles and the relevant article on the playoffs for each season they reached the playoffs. Personally, that's the setup I'd prefer.<a href="/wiki/User:DragonFury" title="User:DragonFury">DragonFury</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DragonFury" title="User talk:DragonFury">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-DragonFury-2018-01-07T01:38:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:38, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DragonFury-2018-01-07T01:38:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DragonFury-2018-01-07T01:38:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-07T02:08:00.000Z-DragonFury-2018-01-07T01:38:00.000Z"></span>I dunno. What would a reader rather be directed to: the article for the team season or the one for that year's playoffs? I envision the reader wanting to see how well the team did that year, their record, roster, coach, etc. So I'd do team season links across the board in infobox. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-07T02:08:00.000Z-DragonFury-2018-01-07T01:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:08, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-07T02:08:00.000Z-DragonFury-2018-01-07T01:38:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-07T02:08:00.000Z-DragonFury-2018-01-07T01:38:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-07T04:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-07T02:08:00.000Z"></span>I like DragonFury’s idea, I’d be fine with that. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Toa</i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toa_Nidhiki05" title="User talk:Toa Nidhiki05"><i style="color: green; font-family: Mistral;">Nidhiki05</i></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-07T04:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-07T02:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:23, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-07T04:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-07T02:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Toa_Nidhiki05-2018-01-07T04:23:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-07T02:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:3.2em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:3.2em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span> Nice to see that this is finally being discussed when I created this discussion. Going to to subject, and after looking at every team's page, I see that some pages have different treatment for this (some link to NFL season and some – to team's season). I will be fine with whatever will be decided. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:43, 7 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z-Edit_war_at_Carolina_Panthers"></span> </p><dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-El_cid,_el_campeador-2018-01-08T15:58:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z"></span>Agree that consistency is key. I'd be willing to help with the change over once a decision is made. <a href="/wiki/User:El_cid,_el_campeador" title="User:El cid, el campeador"><span style="color:black"><b>‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia</b></span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:El_cid,_el_campeador" title="User talk:El cid, el campeador"><span style="color:teal">ᐐT₳LKᐬ</span></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-El_cid,_el_campeador-2018-01-08T15:58:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:58, 8 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-El_cid,_el_campeador-2018-01-08T15:58:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-El_cid,_el_campeador-2018-01-08T15:58:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:13:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z"></span>Support Toa Nidhiki05's position re linking team season articles. The same inconsistency occurs in college season articles. In such cases, the reader is far better served by being linked to the more specific and relevant article on the team's season. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:13:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:13, 8 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:13:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:13:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-07T18:43:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:13:00.000Z"></span>An argument could also be made (and has been a few times) that in <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_player" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Infobox NFL player">Template:Infobox NFL player</a>, links in players' tenures would be better as team season links rather than league season links. But this issue extends into the NBA and MLB as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:18, 8 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:41:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z"></span>That's where it usually comes up in the college football realm as well. In such cases, links to the team season articles are far more relevant and useful. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:41:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 8 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:41:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2018-01-08T16:41:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-09T04:25:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z"></span>I too support re-linking every team's pages to their personal seasons. It makes more sense one-dimensionally for the reader.<a href="/wiki/User:GalaxyFighter55" title="User:GalaxyFighter55">GalaxyFighter55</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GalaxyFighter55" title="User talk:GalaxyFighter55">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-09T04:25:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:25, 9 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-09T04:25:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GalaxyFighter55-2018-01-09T04:25:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-08T16:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Candidate_equals_hired??" data-mw-thread-id="h-Candidate_equals_hired??-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z"><span id="Candidate_equals_hired.3F.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Candidate_equals_hired??-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z"></span>Candidate equals hired??<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Candidate_equals_hired??-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rockchalk717-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z-Candidate_equals_hired??"></span>I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but there is a large number of IP addresses that are changing coaches pages to reflect positions they have not been hired for yet usually within minutes of a report that a team is interested in them, so apparently candidate means hired for IP addresses. So I recommend keeping an eye on these peoples pages, usually the current sports transaction header works as a deterrent.--<span style="background-color:blue; color:red;"><b>Rockchalk</b></span><a href="/wiki/User:Rockchalk717" title="User:Rockchalk717">7</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rockchalk717" title="User talk:Rockchalk717">17</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Rockchalk717-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z-Candidate_equals_hired??" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 8 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rockchalk717-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z-Candidate_equals_hired??"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rockchalk717-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z-Candidate_equals_hired??"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-09T11:36:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z"></span>You can also add <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Uw-sportstrans" title="Template:Uw-sportstrans">Uw-sportstrans</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> to their talk page. Frequent violators can be blocked for unsourced or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a> edits.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-09T11:36:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:36, 9 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-09T11:36:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-09T11:36:00.000Z-Rockchalk717-2018-01-08T23:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-09T16:56:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-09T11:36:00.000Z"></span>Yes this happens quite frequently. A result of the reactionary culture of today, and social media giving us up-to-the-second updates that are often unreliable. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-09T16:56:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-09T11:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:56, 9 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-09T16:56:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-09T11:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-09T16:56:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-09T11:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="User:Gvspillman" data-mw-thread-id="h-User:Gvspillman-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-User:Gvspillman-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"></span>User:Gvspillman<span data-mw-comment-end="h-User:Gvspillman-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z-User:Gvspillman"></span>I've gotten myself into an edit war with <a href="/wiki/User:Gvspillman" title="User:Gvspillman">Gvspillman</a> in <a href="/wiki/Devin_Funchess" title="Devin Funchess">Devin Funchess</a> over the image that is, all probability, a copyvio, and the user's insistence on inserting conference championships into player infobox, which is clearly called out as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Player_pages_format#What_NOT_to_include" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format">What NOT to include</a>. I'm past my 3RRs, as is Gvspillman, so I'm going to refrain from editing any more, and based on the user's responses <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Devin_Funchess&diff=prev&oldid=819491805">here</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard&diff=prev&oldid=819325758">here</a>, there doesn't seem to be much interest in building consensus. If anyone else can engage with the user, that'll be great, but I'm done for now. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ytoyoda&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ytoyoda (page does not exist)">Ytoyoda</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ytoyoda" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Ytoyoda">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z-User:Gvspillman" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:49, 9 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z-User:Gvspillman"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z-User:Gvspillman"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T17:56:00.000Z-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ytoyoda&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ytoyoda (page does not exist)">Ytoyoda</a>:</span> I will take a look. On a side note, he should be reported for edit warring and not assuming good faith, because it is clear that he intentionally ignores what is being said to him. I also issued a 3RR notice on his talk page. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T17:56:00.000Z-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 9 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T17:56:00.000Z-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T17:56:00.000Z-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T18:01:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T17:56:00.000Z"></span>That image is taken from <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://athlonsports.com/fantasy/start-em-sit-em-week-13-2017-josh-gordon-and-other-wr-te-start-sit-fantasy-advice">[12]</a>, which is clearly a copyvio. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T18:01:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T17:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 9 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T18:01:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T17:56:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T18:01:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-09T17:56:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-10T02:58:00.000Z-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"></span>Ah, he's still around. Was hoping he'd find something better to do with his time. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-10T02:58:00.000Z-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 10 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-10T02:58:00.000Z-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-10T02:58:00.000Z-Ytoyoda-2018-01-09T17:49:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Le'Veon_Bell" data-mw-thread-id="h-Le'Veon_Bell-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"><span id="Le.27Veon_Bell"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Le'Veon_Bell-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"></span>Le'Veon Bell<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Le'Veon_Bell-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z-Le'Veon_Bell"></span>Is <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/819901618" title="Special:Diff/819901618">this user</a> correct by removing it from <a href="/wiki/Le%27Veon_Bell" title="Le'Veon Bell">Le'Veon Bell</a>'s page? Bell was named to both teams in <a href="/wiki/2017_All-Pro_Team" title="2017 All-Pro Team">2017</a>, but the user that keeps removing it thinks that listing first-team for 2017 is enough, which is factually wrong. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z-Le'Veon_Bell" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 14 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z-Le'Veon_Bell"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z-Le'Veon_Bell"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:30:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"></span>I agree with you. He was named to both teams, therefore both should be listed in his infobox. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:30:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:30, 14 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:30:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:30:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-14T18:36:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"></span>Yes, per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Player_pages_format" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format">Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format</a>, we generally only list the highest finish for a given year. Details can be expanded in the body.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-14T18:36:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 14 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-14T18:36:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-14T18:36:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-14T16:53:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:53:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-14T18:36:00.000Z"></span>If I'm reading that link correctly, that only applies if the player was selected to different teams by different selectors. Since Bell was selected to both teams by the AP, doesn't it make sense to list both? – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:53:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-14T18:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:53, 14 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:53:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-14T18:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:53:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-14T18:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-14T19:10:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:53:00.000Z"></span>Only the highest finish, no matter what. If he was a first-team selection at both positions we wouldn't count it twice, just as sources wouldn't. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-14T19:10:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 14 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-14T19:10:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:53:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-14T19:10:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-14T18:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Question" data-mw-thread-id="h-Question-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Question-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"></span>Question<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Question-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z-Question"></span>How was <a href="/wiki/Leon_McQuay" title="Leon McQuay">Leon McQuay</a> drafted by the Giants in 1973. He played in the CFL from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.cflapedia.com/Players/m/mcquay_leon.htm">1971 to 1973</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z-Question" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:13, 11 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z-Question"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z-Question"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-11T10:15:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"></span>He probably left college early, and NFL did not accept early entrants back then. That was case with <a href="/wiki/Leroy_Jones_(American_football)" title="Leroy Jones (American football)">Leroy Jones</a> in the 70s who played in CFL before being drafted by NFL.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-11T10:15:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:15, 11 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-11T10:15:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-11T10:15:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-11T10:15:00.000Z"></span>In the Jones article, it says "Before the 1974 football season" but the source is from 1973. So he only played two years of college football? The Jones article also says that the scouts projected him as a first round pick in 1974. However, wouldn't he have still had one year of eligibility left since his junior year would have been in 1973. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-11T10:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:03, 11 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-11T10:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-11T10:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2018-01-11T23:14:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z"></span>He played '68, '69 and '70 for the Spartans. He left in 71 as a senior. He would have been eligible for the draft in 72 (he would have been 22 years old). Presumably, doing well in the CFL, he didn't sign a draft contract, so wasn't drafted that year. Equally presumably, in 73, with things looking less rosy, he did sign the NFL draft contract allowing him to be put in the pool of draftable players. <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><b style="color:green">Tarl N.</b></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2018-01-11T23:14:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:14, 11 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2018-01-11T23:14:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2018-01-11T23:14:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T23:39:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2018-01-11T23:14:00.000Z"></span>Are you sure you have to sign a "draft contract"? I thought the players were just automatically eligible after four years. Also, coincidentally, McQuay and Jones both played for college teams called the Spartans, so I initially thought you were talking about Jones, lol. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T23:39:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2018-01-11T23:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:39, 11 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T23:39:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2018-01-11T23:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T23:39:00.000Z-Tarl_N.-2018-01-11T23:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tarl_N.-2018-01-12T01:32:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T23:39:00.000Z"></span>In the distant past, the draft was simply the owners getting together and listing players they wanted. Today, the legal environment is such that a contract is <i>de rigueur</i> - unlike baseball, football doesn't have the 1922 monopoly exemption. I'm not completely sure when the transition to contracts occurred, but I thought it was before the 1970s. Qualifying for the draft, however, used to be four years after starting college, or graduation. If you quit college early, you had to sit out until the four years had passed. Which was distinct from eligibility (which can extend to five years). <a href="/wiki/User:Tarl_N." title="User:Tarl N."><b style="color:green">Tarl N.</b></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tarl_N.#top" title="User talk:Tarl N."><span style="color:teal">discuss</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Tarl_N.-2018-01-12T01:32:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T23:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:32, 12 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tarl_N.-2018-01-12T01:32:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T23:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tarl_N.-2018-01-12T01:32:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T23:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-12T01:44:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z"></span>@WikiOriginal-9: Jones played two sports. When the article refers to him being named All-State in basketball in 1972, that is for the 1971–72 school year. Therefore, he would have been a senior in 1973–74 for the 1973 football season, and would have been eligible for the 1974 NFL draft.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-12T01:44:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:44, 12 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-12T01:44:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-12T01:44:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T22:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-13T02:15:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-12T01:44:00.000Z"></span>Why does the article say "Having left Norfolk State early, Jones was not eligible for the 1974 NFL draft". If you leave early, do you have to wait five years instead of four? <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-13T02:15:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-12T01:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:15, 13 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-13T02:15:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-12T01:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-13T02:15:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-12T01:44:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-15T00:47:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"></span>Thanks for your input, I think I found a definitive answer. Since Jones dropped out before his senior year in 1973, he still had college football eligibility left, which made him ineligible for the 1974 draft. According to <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.newspapers.com/clip/16542546/detroit_free_press/">this source</a>, players that still had eligibility left had to wait five years to be able to enter the draft instead of four. That's why he was drafted in 1975. If he had played the 1973 season in college, he would have been eligible for the 1974 draft. This appears to be the same case for McQuay. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-15T00:47:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:47, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-15T00:47:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-15T00:47:00.000Z-WikiOriginal-9-2018-01-11T07:13:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Interesting_AfD" data-mw-thread-id="h-Interesting_AfD-2018-01-18T12:05:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Interesting_AfD-2018-01-18T12:05:00.000Z"></span>Interesting AfD<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Interesting_AfD-2018-01-18T12:05:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T12:05:00.000Z-Interesting_AfD"></span>You are invited to help reach consensus at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Kenneth_Walker_III" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kenneth Walker III">Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kenneth Walker III</a>. It involves a player who does not meet <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NGRIDIRON" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NGRIDIRON">WP:NGRIDIRON</a> after being cut in NFL training camp in 2017. He played college football in a major <a href="/wiki/Power_Five_conference" class="mw-redirect" title="Power Five conference">Power Five conference</a> in a large metropolitan city with multiple local newspapers. He had an average college career at best, and is not otherwise notable for anything outside of football. This could help establish a precedent on how to handle players of this sort. Regards.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T12:05:00.000Z-Interesting_AfD" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:05, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T12:05:00.000Z-Interesting_AfD"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T12:05:00.000Z-Interesting_AfD"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Linking_of_cities" data-mw-thread-id="h-Linking_of_cities-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Linking_of_cities-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span>Linking of cities<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Linking_of_cities-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z-Linking_of_cities"></span>I'm not sure why this WikiProject (and those of the other major American sports) have their own house style when it comes to linking cities, but I take issue with <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">User:Sabbatino</a>'s assertion that all cities mentioned in NFL articles should be linked as <code>[[City, State]]</code>, regardless of the actual title of the article being linked to. After my run-in with Sabbatino the other day (see the recent edit history of <a href="/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings" title="Minnesota Vikings">Minnesota Vikings</a>), <a href="/wiki/User:Illegitimate_Barrister" title="User:Illegitimate Barrister">User:Illegitimate Barrister</a> today made a few changes with AWB to the <a href="/wiki/2011_Minnesota_Vikings_season" title="2011 Minnesota Vikings season">2011 Minnesota Vikings season</a> and <a href="/wiki/2012_Minnesota_Vikings_season" title="2012 Minnesota Vikings season">2012 Minnesota Vikings season</a> articles, and Sabbatino reverted them with no explanation other than that the change was "controversial". – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z-Linking_of_cities" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:13, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z-Linking_of_cities"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z-Linking_of_cities"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:27:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span>You should go to <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Illegitimate_Barrister#AWB_changing_to_linking_of_City,_State" title="User talk:Illegitimate Barrister">Illegitimate Barrister talk page</a> and see what admins have to say about this instead of crying all over the place. There are policies like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTBROKEN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTBROKEN">WP:NOTBROKEN</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SEAOFBLUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SEAOFBLUE">WP:SEAOFBLUE</a> that justify this kind of linking. I even posted the same ANI discussion, which I showed you, and admins agree. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <dl><dd>I'm not satisfied by the ANI, which is why I'm asking for comments here. If need be, I can go to a more central discussion, but it would be nice to get a few more opinions before I simply take your word for it, okay champ? – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:27:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:27, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:27:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:27:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T17:30:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:27:00.000Z"></span>You should really stop edit warring as you did in these 2 mentioned pages. Please refrain from that or I will go ahead and report you for not assuming good faith. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T17:30:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:30, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T17:30:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T17:30:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:27:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:36:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T17:30:00.000Z"></span>Erm, reverting ≠ edit warring. Nevertheless, I won't revert those pages again, although I still disagree with this whole idea. It shouldn't matter one way or the other, and you're just as bad as Illegitimate Barrister for reverting a pointless edit. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:36:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T17:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:36:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T17:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:36:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T17:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T18:54:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:36:00.000Z"></span>You can disagree with it, but this has been said to you more than once in the last 7 days. I reverted to <i>status quo</i> before his change and that most certainly does not make me as bad as him. Just because you and your buddies took over the soccer project in the past, it does not mean that you can do the same here. Got it? – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T18:54:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:54, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T18:54:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-18T18:54:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T17:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)</small> Thanks for starting this discussion. I had <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Minnesota_Vikings&diff=820768009&oldid=820661700">edited</a> the Vikings article the other day from "<a href="/wiki/Minneapolis" title="Minneapolis">Minneapolis</a>, Minnesota" to "<a href="/wiki/Minneapolis,_Minnesota" class="mw-redirect" title="Minneapolis, Minnesota">Minneapolis, Minnesota</a>" (<code>[[Minneapolis|Minneapolis, Minnesota]]</code>)). <small>Note: I know <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTBROKEN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTBROKEN">WP:NOTBROKEN</a> says we should link <code>[[Minneapolis, Minnesota]]</code> and not <code>[[Minneapolis|Minneapolis, Minnesota]]</code>. I'm OK with that, but most people don't follow it. I merely reverted to the format that existed back on Dec 27.</small> First of all, my biggest peeve is people linking the state separately like "<a href="/wiki/Minneapolis" title="Minneapolis">Minneapolis</a>, <a href="/wiki/Minnesota" title="Minnesota">Minnesota</a>" (<code>[[Minneapolis]], [[Minnesota]]</code>). The state itself is not all that useful; it's the city and state together that describe the location, and linking the two separately also goes against <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SEAOFBLUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SEAOFBLUE">WP:SEAOFBLUE</a>. Linking <code>[[City, State]]</code>, even in the few cases when the article itself is just <code>[[City]]</code>, discourages drive-by editors from adding a link to just the state. Linking the city and state together has also been the general long-standing format used in NFL team articles.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T17:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:39, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T17:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T17:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span>WP:COMMONNAME</a> should really be used for most of the cities; IE <a href="/wiki/Los_Angeles" title="Los Angeles">Los Angeles</a> instead of <a href="/wiki/Los_Angeles,_California" class="mw-redirect" title="Los Angeles, California">Los Angeles, California</a>. Basically, if the city's title exists without the state, it should be referred to like that in prose as well. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><b style="color: #660000;"><i>Dissident93</i></b></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><b style="color: #D18719;"><i>talk</i></b></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T17:13:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T22:40:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span>I think we're talking more about when the city appears in tables and templates than in prose, e.g. <a href="/wiki/Template:Americanfootballbox" title="Template:Americanfootballbox">Template:Americanfootballbox</a> and <a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_NFL_team" title="Template:Infobox NFL team">Template:Infobox NFL team</a>. And <a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>, I don't think <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTBROKEN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTBROKEN">WP:NOTBROKEN</a> says we should link <code>[[Minneapolis, Minnesota]]</code>, only that it shouldn't necessarily be changed for the sake of being changed, since redirects are okay. But if someone does change it, there's no need to change it back as militantly as <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> has taken it upon himself to do. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T22:40:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:40, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T22:40:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T22:40:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T23:53:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T22:40:00.000Z"></span>NOTBROKEN, whether or not to link to a redirect or use piping, is the least of my concerns. I could go either way with that for now.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T23:53:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T22:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:53, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T23:53:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T22:40:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-18T23:53:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-18T22:40:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-19T00:35:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-18T23:53:00.000Z"></span>I think that's really my point. Sure, redirects exist for a reason, hence why we shouldn't consider links that go directs to be "broken", but if someone does change a redirect link to a non-redirect link, other editors shouldn't immediately jump to change it back. It's a pointless edit that actually does very little to help the encyclopaedia. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-19T00:35:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-18T23:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:35, 19 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-19T00:35:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-18T23:53:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-19T00:35:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-18T23:53:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul></li> <li><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-18T22:51:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)</small> I dunno. I think it'd be odd to have a handful of cities listed without the state in the infobox when the vast majority would include the state. I mean, how many articles on US cities do we have that exclude the state in their title? Like 25? Editors can't be bothered to check/memorize each one. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-18T22:51:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:51, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-18T22:51:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-18T22:51:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-19T00:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93">Dissident93</a>:</span> Echoing <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">PeeJay2K3</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>, the issue at hand is not regarding prose, it is about how to link to "city, state" in an infobox. Regardless of linking style, there has not been any consensus yet to sometimes list a state and not others in these infoboxes i.e. we have always written "Los Angeles, California" and not just "Los Angeles" (without California) in NFL infoboxes.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-19T00:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:04, 19 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-19T00:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-19T00:04:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-18T21:43:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-19T00:13:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-19T00:04:00.000Z"></span>Just checked, for what it's worth, there are 29 articles on US cities that exclude the state in their title. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-19T00:13:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-19T00:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:13, 19 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-19T00:13:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-19T00:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-19T00:13:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-01-19T00:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-19T01:42:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-19T00:13:00.000Z"></span>Not to be confused with this applying to 29 of 32 NFL cities.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-19T01:42:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-19T00:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 19 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-19T01:42:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-19T00:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-19T01:42:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-19T00:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="James_Laurinaitis" data-mw-thread-id="h-James_Laurinaitis-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-James_Laurinaitis-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z"></span>James Laurinaitis<span data-mw-comment-end="h-James_Laurinaitis-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Andrewcoy28" title="User:Andrewcoy28"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z-James_Laurinaitis"></span>Andrewcoy28</a> is edit warring because of stats as can be seen <b><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/822147450" title="Special:Diff/822147450">here</a></b>. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.nfl.com/player/jameslaurinaitis/79850/profile">NFL</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/12454">ESPN</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/9299/">Yahoo! Sports</a> list his tackles as <b>869</b>, while the user that is making the change is basing his reason for the change on <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.espn.com/blog/st-louis-rams/post/_/id/21880/james-laurinaitis-sets-rams-tackles-record-but-wouldve-preferred-a-win">this lone article</a>. In the article it is clearly stated that NFL and the Rams' used different methods to determine the number of tackles. Which number should be used? – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z-James_Laurinaitis" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:17, 25 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z-James_Laurinaitis"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z-James_Laurinaitis"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-25T12:05:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z"></span>If the league and two independent sources all agree he's made 869 tackles, that's the number that should go down. The team may have a vested interest in making their players look better by inflating their numbers, so I wouldn't take their word for it, especially when the article notes they use different methods of counting tackles. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-25T12:05:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:05, 25 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-25T12:05:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-25T12:05:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-25T08:17:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Requesting_additional_eyes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Requesting_additional_eyes-2018-01-31T19:53:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Requesting_additional_eyes-2018-01-31T19:53:00.000Z"></span>Requesting additional eyes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Requesting_additional_eyes-2018-01-31T19:53:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Church-2018-01-31T19:53:00.000Z-Requesting_additional_eyes"></span>Hey everyone, There is currently a small content dispute on <a href="/wiki/Aaron_Rodgers" title="Aaron Rodgers">Aaron Rodgers</a> talk page regarding the inclusion of him dating race car driver <a href="/wiki/Danica_Patrick" title="Danica Patrick">Danica Patrick</a>. It would be nice if we could get some more eyes to gain a consensus. Thanks in advance--<i><b><a href="/wiki/User:Church" title="User:Church"><span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;color:#3300CC">Church</span></a></b></i> <b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Church" title="User talk:Church"><sup><span style="font-family:System;color:#000000">Talk</span></sup></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Church-2018-01-31T19:53:00.000Z-Requesting_additional_eyes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 31 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Church-2018-01-31T19:53:00.000Z-Requesting_additional_eyes"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Church-2018-01-31T19:53:00.000Z-Requesting_additional_eyes"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Module:Sports_table" data-mw-thread-id="h-Module:Sports_table-2018-02-03T04:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Module:Sports_table-2018-02-03T04:40:00.000Z"></span>Module:Sports table<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Module:Sports_table-2018-02-03T04:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Piranha249-2018-02-03T04:40:00.000Z-Module:Sports_table"></span>I think we can centralize most standings templates across Wikipedia by implementing Module:Sports table. We can choose to create a modified variant (as it stands, we do not have a template that all of the standings templates use on WikiProject NFL). –<a href="/wiki/User:Piranha249" title="User:Piranha249">Piranha249</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Piranha249" title="User talk:Piranha249">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Piranha249-2018-02-03T04:40:00.000Z-Module:Sports_table" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 3 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Piranha249-2018-02-03T04:40:00.000Z-Module:Sports_table"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Piranha249-2018-02-03T04:40:00.000Z-Module:Sports_table"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Cardinals_history" data-mw-thread-id="h-Cardinals_history-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Cardinals_history-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z"></span>Cardinals history<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Cardinals_history-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ColemanPoag-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z-Cardinals_history"></span>In the "History of the National Football League championship" article, why are the Chicago Cardinals 2 championships not credited to the Arizona Cardinals? I've never seen anything that says they are not the same team. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ColemanPoag&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ColemanPoag (page does not exist)">ColemanPoag</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ColemanPoag&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:ColemanPoag (page does not exist)">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ColemanPoag" title="Special:Contributions/ColemanPoag">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-ColemanPoag-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z-Cardinals_history" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:35, 3 February 2018 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ColemanPoag-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z-Cardinals_history"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ColemanPoag-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z-Cardinals_history"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-02-03T22:46:00.000Z-ColemanPoag-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z"></span>I'm not stating an opinion on it but the Chicago Cardinals are listed in the table with the 2 title wins. The LA Rams and St. Louis Rams are separated as well. <a href="/wiki/User:WikiOriginal-9" title="User:WikiOriginal-9">WikiOriginal-9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WikiOriginal-9" title="User talk:WikiOriginal-9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-02-03T22:46:00.000Z-ColemanPoag-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:46, 3 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-02-03T22:46:00.000Z-ColemanPoag-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WikiOriginal-9-2018-02-03T22:46:00.000Z-ColemanPoag-2018-02-03T22:35:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl" data-mw-thread-id="h-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z"><span id="Need_admin.28s.29_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z"></span>Need admin(s) on standby during the Super Bowl<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl"></span>I know there are a lot of admins in this WikiProject. So can we get at least one of them to be on standby to protect high-target pages at a moment's notice? Any player on the field is one ankle-breaking juke or one burn by a wide receiver away from having his page swamped by <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Malcolm_Butler&offset=20170206034652&limit=100&action=history&tagfilter=">vandalism of epic proportions</a>. Despite putting in a request at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFPP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFPP">WP:RFPP</a> almost immediately, the page wasn't protected until hours later. We need a dedicated admin tomorrow to ensure something like this doesn't happen again (and so I and others can watch the game in peace). <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:27, 4 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z-Need_admin(s)_on_standby_during_the_Super_Bowl"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:45:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z"></span>Your best bet would be to post at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFPP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFPP">WP:RFPP</a> and link to it here also, in the event there are NFL admins that monitor this page but not RFPP.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:45:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:45, 4 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:45:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:45:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-04T04:27:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Terry_Bradshaw" data-mw-thread-id="h-Terry_Bradshaw-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Terry_Bradshaw-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z"></span>Terry Bradshaw<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Terry_Bradshaw-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z-Terry_Bradshaw"></span>There is a disruptive IP in <a href="/wiki/Terry_Bradshaw" title="Terry Bradshaw">Terry Bradshaw</a>'s page. It would be good if someone took a look as I am at 3RR until 13:45 EST. I also asked for the page to be protected. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z-Terry_Bradshaw" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:09, 4 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z-Terry_Bradshaw"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z-Terry_Bradshaw"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:50:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z"></span>I'd suggest posting to their talk page first and discussing why you disagree with their edits.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:50:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:50, 4 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:50:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:50:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T15:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T19:48:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:50:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>:</span> There is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Player_pages_format" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format">Wikipedia:WikiProject National Football League/Player pages format</a> page, which shows how the player's infobox should look like. I reverted and linked this page in my edit summary, and wrote to that IP user. And what did he do? He instantly changed IPs and restored the wrong format. It is obvious that this page should be protected for some time. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T19:48:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 4 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T19:48:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T19:48:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-04T16:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-05T14:26:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T19:48:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>:</span> The IP has used 3 different IP addresses in a row for 3 edits in a row when he restored bad version. It is obvious that this page needs to be protected since that IP user has ignored my every message and just keeps re-adding his preferred format. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-02-05T14:26:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T19:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:26, 5 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-05T14:26:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T19:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-02-05T14:26:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-04T19:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T20:57:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-05T14:26:00.000Z"></span>The player pages format page is a bit outdated, but the IP is making changes that are very clearly against the standard format. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T20:57:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-05T14:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:57, 5 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T20:57:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-05T14:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T20:57:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-02-05T14:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T20:57:00.000Z"></span>Let me know if they continue w/ Bradshaw, I can protect now that they should know better.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T20:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:40, 5 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T20:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T20:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z-Terry_Bradshaw"></span>On another note, I see that the same IPs are changing various infobox All-Pro entries to limit it to AP selector. I don't think we have a clear consensus on which All-Pro's to use, and AP is arguable the most notable one.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z-Terry_Bradshaw" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:40, 5 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z-Terry_Bradshaw"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z-Terry_Bradshaw"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T23:46:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z"></span>I base that off of the selectors that are listed in the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf">collective bargaining agreement</a> that players receive contract bonuses from being named to (sorry I don't remember the page). Currently that's the AP, PFWA, and Sporting News. Otherwise I use the teams listed on Pro-Football-Reference. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T23:46:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 5 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T23:46:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T23:46:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-05T23:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-10T16:14:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T23:46:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard">Lizard the Wizard</a>:</span> I vaguely remember that coming up before. If there is consensus, it should be noted at the format page.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-10T16:14:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T23:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:14, 10 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-10T16:14:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T23:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-10T16:14:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-05T23:46:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T16:29:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-10T16:14:00.000Z"></span>Yeah I've been meaning to update the format page for a while now. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T16:29:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-10T16:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:29, 10 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T16:29:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-10T16:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T16:29:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-10T16:14:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="All-Pro_navboxes" data-mw-thread-id="h-All-Pro_navboxes-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-All-Pro_navboxes-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z"></span>All-Pro navboxes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-All-Pro_navboxes-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z-All-Pro_navboxes"></span>The annual navboxes for All-Pro picks at <a href="/wiki/Category:National_Football_League_All-Pro_Team_navigational_boxes" title="Category:National Football League All-Pro Team navigational boxes">Category:National Football League All-Pro Team navigational boxes</a> seem like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TCREEP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TCREEP">WP:TCREEP</a> to me. See examples like <a href="/wiki/Ray_Lewis" title="Ray Lewis">Ray Lewis</a> or <a href="/wiki/Peyton_Manning" title="Peyton Manning">Peyton Manning</a>. It becomes unwieldy when accomplished players start accumulating them. We already have enough navboxes from Super Bowl champs and annual award navs that collect the all-time winners, let alone these which have a new nav each year. Also, we don't limit All-Pro's in infoboxes to AP, but we single out the AP selector only here. Let's not let this mushroom when copycats start creating navs for other All-Pro selectors and the Pro Bowl too. What do others think?—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z-All-Pro_navboxes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:21, 10 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z-All-Pro_navboxes"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z-All-Pro_navboxes"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T16:39:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z"></span>Agree it's template creep. <a href="/wiki/Reggie_White" title="Reggie White">Reggie White</a> and <a href="/wiki/Jerry_Rice" title="Jerry Rice">Jerry Rice</a> would have 10 each. A few months ago someone even started making ones for AP second teams before that endeavor was nipped in the bud. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T16:39:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:39, 10 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T16:39:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T16:39:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-10T12:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Discussion_regarding_Super_Bowl_MVP_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_regarding_Super_Bowl_MVP_article-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion_regarding_Super_Bowl_MVP_article-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z"></span>Discussion regarding Super Bowl MVP article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion_regarding_Super_Bowl_MVP_article-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z-Discussion_regarding_Super_Bowl_MVP_article"></span>There's a discussion at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Super_Bowl_Most_Valuable_Player_Award#Trivia_added" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Super Bowl Most Valuable Player Award">Talk:Super Bowl Most Valuable Player Award#Trivia added</a> in need of input to establish a consensus. It's mainly regarding whether high schools that have produced multiple Super Bowl MVPs should be mentioned in the lead, and whether to add a "College" column to the table. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z-Discussion_regarding_Super_Bowl_MVP_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:54, 10 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z-Discussion_regarding_Super_Bowl_MVP_article"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z-Discussion_regarding_Super_Bowl_MVP_article"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T21:09:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z"></span>I ask that everyone please take a look at this and provide input. It involves major edits to a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FL">featured list</a>. If we can't serve as a vanguard for our highest-quality pages then we've failed as a WikiProject. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T21:09:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 10 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T21:09:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T21:09:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T18:54:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-11T22:55:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T21:09:00.000Z"></span>Disregard, editor has been banned for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SOCK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SOCK">placing his hand inside garments meant for feet and making them appear to speak by forming the shape of a mouth with his fingers</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-11T22:55:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T21:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:55, 11 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-11T22:55:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T21:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-11T22:55:00.000Z-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-02-10T21:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID" data-mw-thread-id="h-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDTITLE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDTITLE">MOS:BOLDTITLE</a> and <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDAVOID">MOS:BOLDAVOID</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span>Hello everyone, me again. <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">User:Sabbatino</a> this morning made a few edits to recent Minnesota Vikings season articles so that the opening sentences now include <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDTITLE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDTITLE">bold titles</a>. I believe that this is contrary to <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDAVOID">MOS:BOLDAVOID</a>, which says that the opening sentence of an article shouldn't be worded awkwardly just so that the title of the article can be added in bold. To that end, I believe that writing </p> <blockquote><p>The <a href="/wiki/2018_NFL_season" title="2018 NFL season">2018 season</a> will be the <a href="/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings" title="Minnesota Vikings">Minnesota Vikings</a>' 58th in the <a href="/wiki/National_Football_League" title="National Football League">National Football League</a></p></blockquote> <p>works better than </p> <blockquote><p>The <b>2018 Minnesota Vikings season</b> will be the franchise's 58th season in the <a href="/wiki/National_Football_League" title="National Football League">National Football League</a></p></blockquote> <p>I'm willing to roll out my suggested format across all the Vikings articles, but I'm going to need some help to do the rest of the NFL if this is something the community approves of. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:59, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-26T13:43:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"></span>Completely agree with the non-bolded approach which is consistent with the guidelines you cited. "2018 Minnesota Vikings season" is more of a descriptive title than a formally accept name. Also, providing key links early, like to the Vikings, is consistent with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONTEXTLINK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONTEXTLINK">WP:CONTEXTLINK</a>. Early on as we transition this, it's better to be inconsistently good than consistently bad. There is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NODEADLINE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NODEADLINE">WP:NODEADLINE</a>. However, completing it sooner rather than later discourages drive-by editors who are unaware of this discussion that might revert for "consistency".—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-26T13:43:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:43, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-26T13:43:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-26T13:43:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"></span>No strong view on which version is better, but such a change should probably discussed across all American professional sports projects that have been following/sharing the same article naming protocol for the last decade. Compare <a href="/wiki/2017_Chicago_Bears_season" title="2017 Chicago Bears season">2017 Chicago Bears season</a> (NFL), <a href="/wiki/2017_Chicago_White_Sox_season" title="2017 Chicago White Sox season">2017 Chicago White Sox season</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Baseball" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball">Wikipedia:WikiProject Baseball</a>), <a href="/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Chicago_Bulls_season" title="2017–18 Chicago Bulls season">2017–18 Chicago Bulls season</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association">Wikipedia:WikiProject National Basketball Association</a>), <a href="/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Chicago_Blackhawks_season" title="2017–18 Chicago Blackhawks season">2017–18 Chicago Blackhawks season</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey">Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey</a>) all of which use the bold titles approach. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:36, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T12:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:52:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span>I'm happy to suggest this across the board for all sports. I had originally hoped to see how this was received among the Vikings season articles and go from there, but <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">someone</a> decided that consistency was more important than actually analysing why we present our content the way we do and how. So maybe we should limit this discussion to just NFL articles for now and then attempt to roll it out across the other projects? Unless you think it's futile to introduce it here because it won't be accepted anywhere else? – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:52:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:52, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:52:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:52:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T18:41:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:52:00.000Z"></span>Accusing me of reverting to the accepted standard is silly and this is not the first time I am being accused by you. Therefore, I do not wish to have any more discussions with you directly since all you do is take it personally. Moreover, I never said anything about consistency in that discussion. Personal synthesis is not the way to go. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T18:41:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:41, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T18:41:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T18:41:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:25:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T18:41:00.000Z"></span>Dude, your exact words in your edit summaries were "Restore standard for NFL pages + MOS:BOLDTITLE". If you don't think that has anything to do with consistency, then I don't think you know what consistency means. I'm here to make a better encyclopaedia and you're blindly reverting because it doesn't jive with your conservative attitude; just because something has been done a certain way for years doesn't make that way right. I'll admit my way might not be perfect, but you'll have to prove that it isn't first. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:25:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T18:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:25, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:25:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T18:41:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:25:00.000Z-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T18:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T20:45:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:25:00.000Z"></span>First of all, I know very well what consistency is and I did not say anything about it, but you keep making it up. In addition, you are the one who is blindly reverting as you did today when you restored your preferred version despite the fact that this discussion is still ongoing. And no, I am not conservative since you do not know me in real life. Furthermore, you are leaning towards <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HARASS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HARASS">harrasment</a> so I advise to stop it right here since this discussion is not about me, you or anyone else. – <a href="/wiki/User:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Sabbatino">Sabbatino</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sabbatino" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Sabbatino">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T20:45:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:45, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T20:45:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sabbatino-2018-01-28T20:45:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:53:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span>By the way, the one I find the most ridiculous of the four you linked to is the ice hockey one. Why does it mention the date the franchise was founded in an article about a specific season? Seems totally ludicrous to me. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:53:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:53, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:53:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T15:53:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-26T16:11:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span>@Cbl62: The ol' consistency across North American sports WikiProjects argument, although well intentioned, usually just stonewalls any progress. There's little commonality in style among the projects as it is anyways (infoboxes, navboxes, stats tables, etc), and this is a community guideline as opposed to some arbitrary project convention.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-01-26T16:11:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-01-26T16:11:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-01-26T16:11:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Djsasso-2018-01-26T16:48:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span>I don't have a super strong opinion but the bolded version does appear to meet <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDTITLE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDTITLE">MOS:BOLDTITLE</a> as that would be a commonly held term for the season and can fit in normal English which are the first two points. And unlike the example in <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDAVOID">MOS:BOLDAVOID</a> a person would normally say something like "The 2018 Minnesota Vikings season will be the franchise's 58th season in the National Football League" as a normal sentence, that is how seasons are typically talked about whereas the flooding example that wouldn't be a typical sentence. -<a href="/wiki/User:Djsasso" title="User:Djsasso">DJSasso</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Djsasso" title="User talk:Djsasso">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Djsasso-2018-01-26T16:48:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Djsasso-2018-01-26T16:48:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Djsasso-2018-01-26T16:48:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-26T15:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span>Though I can't recall exactly (and not going to check my contribs), over the years, 'here and there', I've bolded the intro to sports team season articles. Until now, I wasn't aware of any opposition to it. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDTITLE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDTITLE"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-26T18:15:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z"></span>MOS:BOLDTITLE</a> does say that "Otherwise, include the title if it can be accommodated in normal English", which the second example does. I'm neutral on which should be preferred, just that it's consistent with other similar articles. ~ <a href="/wiki/User:Dissident93" title="User:Dissident93"><b style="color: #660000;"><i>Dissident93</i></b></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dissident93" title="User talk:Dissident93"><b style="color: #D18719;"><i>talk</i></b></a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Dissident93-2018-01-26T18:15:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:15, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dissident93-2018-01-26T18:15:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dissident93-2018-01-26T18:15:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T18:28:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-26T18:15:00.000Z"></span>It does say that, but it also says that you shouldn't put links in bold titles, and there's no way of writing the sentence naturally (and without putting in an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EASTER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EASTER">Easter egg link</a>) while still linking to the franchise page at the earliest possible opportunity. If you write "The <b>2018 Minnesota Vikings season</b> will be <a href="/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings" title="Minnesota Vikings">the franchise</a>'s 58th in the <a href="/wiki/National_Football_League" title="National Football League">National Football League</a>" you get an Easter egg link. Furthermore, I disagree that "the 2018 Minnesota Vikings season" is a normal thing to say in everyday parlance. You might talk about "the 2018 Minnesota Vikings" as a team, or you might talk about "the 2018 season", but I wouldn't refer to the "2018 Minnesota Vikings season" in normal speech - in fact, when I Google it, I find practically zero hits for that exact phrase (and not just for 2018 but for previous years too). Writing the opening to these articles in the manner I suggested in my original post avoids all these pitfalls. It does mean there's no bold text at the top of the page, but that's by no means essential for a Wikipedia article. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T18:28:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-26T18:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:28, 26 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T18:28:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-26T18:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-26T18:28:00.000Z-Dissident93-2018-01-26T18:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T14:57:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z"></span>I've yet to see any prevailing arguments about why the wording I propose should not be used, so I'm going to go ahead and restore that wording to all the Vikings articles. I do not have the time to do all 32 teams (and their forerunners) myself, so if people could help out, perhaps with the use of a bot, that would be great. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T14:57:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:57, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T14:57:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T14:57:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-26T17:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T15:05:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T14:57:00.000Z"></span>It would appear rather odd, to make the Vikings intros <i>different</i> from the intros of the other NFL team season articles intros. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T15:05:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T14:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:05, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T15:05:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T14:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T15:05:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T14:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T15:05:00.000Z"></span>Hence why it would make sense to change the rest of them. No point sticking with something that doesn't satisfy the MOS when we have a better option. Furthermore, we shouldn't shirk the responsibility of making the encyclopaedia better just because the amount of work involved is a little too high. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T15:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:20, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T15:05:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T15:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T17:34:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z"></span>Since this is the Football Wikipedia & AFAIK, you're not going to make such changes to the NHL team season articles, then cool. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T17:34:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:34, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T17:34:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T17:34:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:38:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T17:34:00.000Z"></span>I won't be making such changes to the NHL season articles, no, but I think that such changes should be encouraged, especially those to remove the founding dates of each franchise from the opening paragraphs of their season articles. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:38:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T17:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:38, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:38:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T17:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:38:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T17:34:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-28T17:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z"></span>There ought to be consensus before you change a protocol that has been in place for a decade across every American professional sports league. Two days of discussion (and over a weekend) is a bit hasty, and I'm not yet seeing evidence of a clear consensus for your proposed change. You offered to post on the other WikiProject talk pages, and I think that's a sound idea. Let others express their views. Let the discussion play out. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2018-01-28T17:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:39, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-28T17:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2018-01-28T17:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-28T17:39:00.000Z"></span>I don't recall overtly making that offer, I simply said I would be happy to suggest it to the other sports and that we should see how it's received here first. I also recall <a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">User:Bagumba</a> pointing out how the old "let's be consistent across all four major US sports" argument is often used as a poor excuse for not wanting to change the status quo. You say I should try to get a better consensus here before rolling out any changes, but you've all had the opportunity to weigh in and so far there have been contributions from only four editors, the last of which came two days ago. It's not my fault the conversation has stagnated, so I'm being <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOLD">bold</a>. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-28T17:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-28T17:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z-Cbl62-2018-01-28T17:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-28T18:13:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z"></span>Conversation is often slower over weekends. Give the discussion a week to play out. I've now notified other American sports projects, which should help to draw the issue to the attention of interested persons so that a consensus can be reached one way or the other. <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cbl62" title="User talk:Cbl62">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Cbl62-2018-01-28T18:13:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:13, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cbl62-2018-01-28T18:13:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cbl62-2018-01-28T18:13:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:29:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z"></span>You may want to hold off on making anymore changes, until you get a consensus for them. It will only be more frustrating for you, if eventually those changes end up being reverted. What's more annoying then having <i>10</i> of your edits undone, is having <i>100</i> of your edits undone, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:29:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:29, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:29:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:29:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T17:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:33:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:29:00.000Z"></span>Fair enough. I notice that you haven't yet offered an opinion on the change, by the way. If you do so, perhaps we can move towards a consensus. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:33:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:33:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:33:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:29:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:33:00.000Z"></span>IMHO, we should keep the status quo - <b>Year Team season</b> intro & remove the page links from them. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:39, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:39:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:42:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:39:00.000Z"></span>Okay, but don't you think there should at least be a link to the team page somewhere in the opening sentence? – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:42:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:42, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:42:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:42:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:42:00.000Z"></span>I suppose, though the team page is already linked in the infobox heading. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:42:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z"></span>Are you sure? It's not linked in any of the Vikings season infobox headings, and I'm not sure it should be, per some other MOS guideline. I'll see if I can find the pertinent one. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:50:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z"></span>Found it. Check out <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes#Consistency_between_infoboxes" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes">Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes#Consistency between infoboxes</a> where it says "The template should have a large, bold title line. [...] It should not contain a link." – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:50:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:50, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:50:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:50:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:52:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:50:00.000Z"></span>Apparently, it hasn't been applied to <i>all</i> infoboxes, concerning sports team season articles. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:52:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:52, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:52:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:52:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:56:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:52:00.000Z"></span>No, but when there are so many articles under that umbrella all maintained by different people with different experiences of Wikipedia's policies and all working at cross purposes, there are bound to be some inconsistencies. Surely as members of this WikiProject it's our job to iron out those inconsistencies and get the articles to look as good and MOS-compliant as we can? – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:56:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:56, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:56:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T19:56:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:20.8em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:20.8em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span>I'm a pro-consistency gnome editor. Therefore, I wouldn't object if all sports team season articles were consistent among themselves. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:59, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T20:04:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span>That's great, I appreciate that. I just go one step further and would prefer it if all articles on the entire encyclopaedia were consistent. If they're not, what's the point in having the MOS in the first place? But that's by the by. I'll let you mull over what I've said and I hope you'll consider the format I propose to be a benefit to the encyclopaedia. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T20:04:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T20:04:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T20:04:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-28T20:19:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span>Keep as is</b> – <i>Year team season</i> should remain as is. Link the team article in the second sentence. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Corkythehornetfan" title="User talk:Corkythehornetfan"><span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS; color: #231f20"><b>Corky</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-28T20:19:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-28T20:19:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-28T20:19:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-28T20:19:00.000Z"></span>This isn't a vote, Corky, but thanks for your input. I see where you're coming from, but I think <a href="/wiki/MOS:BTW" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BTW">MOS:BTW</a> suggests that the first instance should be linked, so it would be a little weird to force the link to appear in the wrong place just so we can maintain bolding that falls foul of <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDAVOID">MOS:BOLDAVOID</a>. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-28T20:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 28 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-28T20:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-28T20:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:42:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z"></span>I realize this isn't a vote, but you asked for our opinions... that was my way of voicing my opinion. Sorry I didn't format it like everyone else. If this proposal goes through, are you and others going through every single article that this affects or is a bot? <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Corkythehornetfan" title="User talk:Corkythehornetfan"><span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS; color: #231f20"><b>Corky</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:42:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:42, 29 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:42:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:42:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:44:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z"></span>And please don't edit my posts as you did in your response. Though it was minor, you still edited it and it is not appreciated. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Corkythehornetfan" title="User talk:Corkythehornetfan"><span style="font-family: Trebuchet MS; color: #231f20"><b>Corky</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:44:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:44, 29 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:44:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:44:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-28T21:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-29T09:23:00.000Z-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:44:00.000Z"></span>I haven't decided how best to implement the changes if they're approved by this WikiProject, but I would hope that we could all pull together to get it done pretty quickly. I've been going pretty slowly on the Vikings seasons so far, but that's partly because we haven't yet reached a full consensus and partly because I'm also making some other changes to the lead of each article (might as well take the opportunity while I'm there, right!) – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-29T09:23:00.000Z-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:23, 29 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-29T09:23:00.000Z-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-29T09:23:00.000Z-Corkythehornetfan-2018-01-29T00:44:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zzzoom-2018-01-31T16:28:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span>I tried addressing this a couple months back at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BASEBALL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BASEBALL">WP:BASEBALL</a>. The discussion is here: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball/Archive_43#Team_season_problem?" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 43">Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball/Archive_43#Team_season_problem?</a>. A few of us agree to change the articles, but I didn't have the time and forgot about it for a while. <a href="/wiki/User:Zzzoom" title="User:Zzzoom"><span style="color:#66CD00">Zoom</span></a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzzoom" title="User talk:Zzzoom"><span style="color:#66CD00">talk page</span></a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zzzoom-2018-01-31T16:28:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 31 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zzzoom-2018-01-31T16:28:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zzzoom-2018-01-31T16:28:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-31T21:41:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-01-31T16:28:00.000Z"></span>That's interesting. So it seems like the reason we haven't done this so far across all WikiProjects is a sort of apathy among editors. All the arguments I've seen so far seem to be a bit of a smokescreen for the real reason, which is that people just don't want to do all the (admittedly) hard work it would take to change all the articles. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-31T21:41:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-01-31T16:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:41, 31 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-31T21:41:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-01-31T16:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-01-31T21:41:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-01-31T16:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-31T18:11:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span>Agree</b> The title is merely descriptive and repeating it in the opening sentence serves to create awkward verbiage. <a href="/wiki/User:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User:Lizard the Wizard"><span style="color:#008000;">Lizard</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lizard_the_Wizard" title="User talk:Lizard the Wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-31T18:11:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 31 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-31T18:11:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lizard_the_Wizard-2018-01-31T18:11:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-03T11:03:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span>This is starting to feel like a consensus for the change. Anyone else care to weigh in? – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-03T11:03:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:03, 3 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-03T11:03:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-03T11:03:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-01-28T19:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-03T11:03:00.000Z"></span>Hey, a bit late, but do you think we should have a consensus on each sport project talk page? I agree that the work would be tedious, but it will be worth it in the long run. <a href="/wiki/User:Zzzoom" title="User:Zzzoom"><span style="color:#66CD00">Zoom</span></a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzzoom" title="User talk:Zzzoom"><span style="color:#66CD00">talk page</span></a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-03T11:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:52, 6 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-03T11:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-03T11:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:09:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z"></span>I can see why you would say that from an encyclopaedia-wide consistency standpoint, but wouldn't it be better simply to establish a consensus here and then use this project as a test case when it comes to raising the issue at other projects? – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:09:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:09, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:09:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:09:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:11:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z"></span>Furthermore, there appears to be a consensus in existence (at least for WikiProject Baseball) at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball/Archive_43#Team_season_problem?" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball/Archive 43">Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Baseball/Archive_43#Team_season_problem?</a> – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:11:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:11:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:11:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-06T16:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zzzoom-2018-02-07T01:15:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Yes, sorry, I was Epicandrew1220 and changed my name. The problem with that is that there were only three others in the discussion and we didn't even reach what I would classify a consensus, given that all the articles remain unchanged and there was no real effort to even update the newer articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Zzzoom" title="User:Zzzoom"><span style="color:#66CD00">Zoom</span></a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzzoom" title="User talk:Zzzoom"><span style="color:#66CD00">talk page</span></a>)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Zzzoom-2018-02-07T01:15:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:15, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zzzoom-2018-02-07T01:15:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zzzoom-2018-02-07T01:15:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T02:10:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-07T01:15:00.000Z"></span>Honestly that's about as much "consensus" as you'll often get in these project discussions. We're all volunteers here, so often it's a matter of someone taking the lead and having the time and interest to take on things. I'd suggest doing one high-profile team first and see if anyone hollers.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T02:10:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-07T01:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:10, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T02:10:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-07T01:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T02:10:00.000Z-Zzzoom-2018-02-07T01:15:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-07T02:10:00.000Z"></span>Okay, well I've already done 10 seasons of the Minnesota Vikings before I was advised to stop, although they may not be a big enough name to attract any dissenting opinions. I'm just wondering what kind of "holler" counts as a valid objection; if someone simply says "this isn't how we do things", I'm inclined to ignore them. In fact, I'd be inclined to ignore them unless they had a very good reason to oppose these changes, since I'm supported by <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDAVOID">MOS:BOLDAVOID</a>. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-07T02:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:27, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-07T02:10:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-07T02:10:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T09:53:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z"></span>I'd just link to this discussion in the edit summary. If we get more objections, I'd suggest getting MOS people involved. I really don't see a reason why an exception to override community guidelines is warranted here.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T09:53:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:53, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T09:53:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T09:53:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T15:58:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z"></span>Except you aren't supported by <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDAVOID">MOS:BOLDAVOID</a> as mentioned above.... -<a href="/wiki/User:Djsasso" title="User:Djsasso">DJSasso</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Djsasso" title="User talk:Djsasso">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T15:58:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:58, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T15:58:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T15:58:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T09:27:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T16:19:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T15:58:00.000Z"></span>You're going to have to point out the exact portion of the above discussion you're referring to, as I don't see anyone disputing the fact that <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDAVOID">MOS:BOLDAVOID</a> agrees with this change. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T16:19:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T15:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:19, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T16:19:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T15:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T16:19:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T15:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T17:48:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T16:19:00.000Z"></span>I did, above, it meets the first two points of <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDTITLE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDTITLE">MOS:BOLDTITLE</a> in that it is a widely accepted name for the subject and that it can be used in normal English. It does not violate any of the <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDAVOID">MOS:BOLDAVOID</a> points. The only one you could try to argue is about the floods, but nobody refers to floods by the year, whereas people do with seasons for sports teams. I myself use the exact format you say wouldn't be used when I am referring to a specific teams season when talking in everyday English. Now as I said above I have no strong opinion one way or the other which is used, but I want to make sure its clear that the change is a preference thing as the current versions in no way violate the MOS so just ignoring objections would be disruptive. (And looking at the above discussion there seem to be more disagreeing, or uncaring on which is used, than there are agreeing to the change so there is hardly a strong consensus for one) -<a href="/wiki/User:Djsasso" title="User:Djsasso">DJSasso</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Djsasso" title="User talk:Djsasso">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T17:48:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T16:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:48, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T17:48:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T16:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T17:48:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T16:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:04:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T17:48:00.000Z"></span>I would argue that perhaps you only use that phraseology because you are a regular on Wikipedia and therefore it doesn't seem unnatural to you any more; I often see references to "the 2017 Minnesota Vikings", but the terminology "2017 Minnesota Vikings season" is almost exclusive to Wikipedia. Regardless, your option would result in having to link to the team via a piped link ("The <b>2017 Minnesota Vikings season</b> is the <a href="/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings" title="Minnesota Vikings">franchise's</a> 57th in the <a href="/wiki/National_Football_League" title="National Football League">National Football League</a>"); although it's pretty obvious where that link goes, it's not ideal per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EASTER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EASTER">WP:EASTER</a>. Why force a bold title when it's not necessary? Honestly, it feels like you're clinging to this simply because it's easier to stick to the status quo than to make a bunch of changes that could probably be run through a bot. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:04:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T17:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:04:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T17:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:04:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T17:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T18:17:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:04:00.000Z"></span>Nah not at all, an AWB run could change all the articles in a matter of minutes once the right regex was written. It is more a case of really disliking when people have a particular pet peeve about some sort of formatting and so they try to claim it doesn't meet the MOS so they can get it changed to their preferred way. Happens all the time. MOS:FLAG is one of the best examples that is constantly claimed but often incorrectly. I would say your example in regards to an easter egg isn't really an easter egg as there probably isn't a single reader who doesn't understand where that link is going. But even if you don't use that format you could use "<b>The 2017 Minnesota Vikings'</b> season will be the 57th season of the <a href="/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings" title="Minnesota Vikings">Minnesota Vikings</a> franchise." which doesn't have that issue. As to your comment about me using it that way in speech because of I am an editor here, I don't know if that is true, I feel like I referred to seasons like that before I even had the internet in the early 90s but I can't say for certain. As I said my only real concern is that this not be portrayed as a mandated change per the MOS, because it isn't. -<a href="/wiki/User:Djsasso" title="User:Djsasso">DJSasso</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Djsasso" title="User talk:Djsasso">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T18:17:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:17, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T18:17:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:04:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T18:17:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:31:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T18:17:00.000Z"></span>Fair enough, I apologise for making that assumption about your motives. As to your suggestion, doesn't it sound pretty weird to say "<b>The 2017 Minnesota Vikings'</b> season will be the 57th season of the <a href="/wiki/Minnesota_Vikings" title="Minnesota Vikings">Minnesota Vikings</a> franchise"? You're saying "Minnesota Vikings" in full twice in the same sentence just to satisfy <a href="/wiki/MOS:BOLDTITLE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:BOLDTITLE">MOS:BOLDTITLE</a>. That sounds pretty unnatural to me. Just my opinion, though I'm sure it's shared by plenty of others. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:31:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T18:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:31, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:31:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T18:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:31:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T18:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T19:29:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:31:00.000Z"></span>I would probably use the franchise version you mention or use Vikings instead of the full team and city but that might be a bigger easter egg. I literally just copied that sentence from the baseball discussion above and changed it to be the Vikings. It's not really my preferred way. It was just an example avoiding the "easter egg" version. -<a href="/wiki/User:Djsasso" title="User:Djsasso">DJSasso</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Djsasso" title="User talk:Djsasso">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T19:29:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:29, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T19:29:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Djsasso-2018-02-07T19:29:00.000Z-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T18:31:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T20:11:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T19:29:00.000Z"></span>I understand, I just think it seems like we're bending over backwards to find a way to put some words in bold when there's actually a policy that says we don't have to. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T20:11:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T19:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T20:11:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T19:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T20:11:00.000Z-Djsasso-2018-02-07T19:29:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span>FWIW, this entire discussion should be either transferred to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SPORTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SPORTS">WP:SPORTS</a> <i>or</i> copy-pasted to all the sports related WikiProjects. <a href="/wiki/User:GoodDay" title="User:GoodDay">GoodDay</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoodDay" title="User talk:GoodDay">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z-MOS:BOLDTITLE_and_MOS:BOLDAVOID"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T20:15:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z"></span>FWIW2, GA <a href="/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_Manchester_United_F.C._season" title="1998–99 Manchester United F.C. season">1998–99 Manchester United F.C. season</a> neither bolds nor repeats its title in the lead.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T20:15:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T20:15:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-07T20:15:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T21:03:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-07T20:15:00.000Z"></span>Indeed so! And I don't mean to imply that GA or FA status should be the endgame for all articles (some just aren't suited to it), but if any of these articles ever have aspirations of reaching FA status, I feel like MOS compliance is one pretty important aspect that we should be following. – <a href="/wiki/User:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User:PeeJay2K3">Pee</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:PeeJay2K3" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:PeeJay2K3">Jay</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T21:03:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-07T20:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 7 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T21:03:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-07T20:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PeeJay2K3-2018-02-07T21:03:00.000Z-Bagumba-2018-02-07T20:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-12T07:40:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z"></span>Notification of other projects</b> For the record, <a href="/wiki/User:Cbl62" title="User:Cbl62">Cbl62</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League&diff=822820886&oldid=822819110">stated (above) on January 28</a> that they had already done so.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Bagumba-2018-02-12T07:40:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:40, 12 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bagumba-2018-02-12T07:40:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bagumba-2018-02-12T07:40:00.000Z-GoodDay-2018-02-07T19:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_for_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_for_discussion-2018-02-17T16:06:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template_for_discussion-2018-02-17T16:06:00.000Z"></span>Template for discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template_for_discussion-2018-02-17T16:06:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jweiss11-2018-02-17T16:06:00.000Z-Template_for_discussion"></span>I've nominated for deletion a few NFL awards templates and other general sports awards templates that apply to some NFL bio articles. Please see the discussions at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2018_February_17" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 February 17">Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2018 February 17</a>. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Jweiss11" title="User:Jweiss11">Jweiss11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jweiss11" title="User talk:Jweiss11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15#c-Jweiss11-2018-02-17T16:06:00.000Z-Template_for_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:06, 17 February 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jweiss11-2018-02-17T16:06:00.000Z-Template_for_discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jweiss11-2018-02-17T16:06:00.000Z-Template_for_discussion"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15&oldid=1136049147">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Football_League/Archive_15&oldid=1136049147</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 28 January 2023, at 13:13<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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