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We are biased.">Revision as of 02:50, 16 July 2023</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.&action=edit&oldid=1165581949" title="User talk:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased.">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2023-07-16T02:50:19Z"></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:Buidhe" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Buidhe" data-mw-revid="1165581949"><bdi>Buidhe</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buidhe" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:Buidhe">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Buidhe" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/Buidhe">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Autopatrolled" title="Wikipedia:Autopatrolled">Autopatrolled</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_confirmed_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Extended confirmed editors">Extended confirmed users</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Page_mover" title="Wikipedia:Page mover">Page movers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_mover" title="Wikipedia:File mover">File movers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Mass_message_senders" title="Wikipedia:Mass message senders">Mass message senders</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol/Reviewers" title="Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Reviewers">New page reviewers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reviewing_pending_changes" title="Wikipedia:Reviewing pending changes">Pending changes reviewers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_editor" title="Wikipedia:Template editor">Template editors</a></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>136,007</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Help_needed">→<bdi dir="ltr">Help needed</bdi></a>: </span> Reply</span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle5"><span class="mw-tag-markers"><a href="/wiki/Special:Tags" title="Special:Tags">Tag</a>: <span class="mw-tag-marker mw-tag-marker-discussiontools-reply"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:DiscussionTools">Reply</a></span></span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.&diff=prev&oldid=1165581949" title="User talk:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased." id="differences-prevlink">← Previous edit</a></div></td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-ntitle diff-side-added"><div id="mw-diff-ntitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.&oldid=1165660059" title="User talk:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased.">Revision as of 16:01, 16 July 2023</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.&action=edit&oldid=1165660059" title="User talk:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased.">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2023-07-16T16:01:39Z"></span> <span class="mw-diff-undo"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.&action=edit&undoafter=1165581949&undo=1165660059" title=""Undo" reverts this edit and opens the edit form in preview mode. It allows adding a reason in the summary.">undo</a></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:Guy_Macon" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Guy Macon" data-mw-revid="1165660059"><bdi>Guy Macon</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:Guy Macon">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Guy_Macon" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/Guy Macon">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_confirmed_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Extended confirmed editors">Extended confirmed users</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_mover" title="Wikipedia:File mover">File movers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:New_pages_patrol/Reviewers" title="Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Reviewers">New page reviewers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reviewing_pending_changes" title="Wikipedia:Reviewing pending changes">Pending changes reviewers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Rollback" title="Wikipedia:Rollback">Rollbackers</a></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>59,287</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Help_needed">→<bdi dir="ltr">Help needed</bdi></a>: </span> Good find</span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle5"></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.&diff=next&oldid=1165660059" title="User talk:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased." id="differences-nextlink">Next edit →</a></div></td> </tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 65:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 65:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>:For pseudoscience there's [https://jcom.sissa.it/article/pubid/JCOM_2002_2021_A09/ this], although it mainly claims that we may wrongly classify certain topics as pseudoscience.</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>:For pseudoscience there's [https://jcom.sissa.it/article/pubid/JCOM_2002_2021_A09/ this], although it mainly claims that we may wrongly classify certain topics as pseudoscience.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>:I couldn't find any claim that we were biased against Lysenkoism (maybe it doesn't have many adherents today?) but I did find [https://medium.com/@steersmann/wikipedias-lysenkoism-410901a22da2 the opposite claim]. ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 02:50, 16 July 2023 (UTC)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>:I couldn't find any claim that we were biased against Lysenkoism (maybe it doesn't have many adherents today?) but I did find [https://medium.com/@steersmann/wikipedias-lysenkoism-410901a22da2 the opposite claim]. ([[User talk:Buidhe|t]] &#183; [[Special:Contributions/Buidhe|c]]) '''[[User:buidhe|<span style="color: black">buidhe</span>]]''' 02:50, 16 July 2023 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>::Fascinating article on "Wikipedia’s Lysenkoism", but in my opinion completely wrong. The author, while fighting for their preferred definition of such terms as "sex" "gender" and "female" (ignoring the easily observed fact that word definitions and usage change over time) completely mangles the meaning of "Lysenkoism", redefining it as "any deliberate distortion of scientific facts or theories for purposes that are deemed politically, religiously or socially desirable" (it actually refers to one specific set of wrong opinions by Trofim Lysenko and to Joseph Stalin making those wrong opinions the only acceptable biological science in the USSR). Interesting, but not much use in this essay.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><br /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>::On the other hand, the jcom.sissa.it paper is just what I was looking for. In seems to be quite clearly claiming that Wikipedia is biased against pseudoscience. Example: "their scepticism is applied asymmetrically, always against beliefs contrary to scientific and medical orthodoxy and, and their efforts are invariably against groups espousing those beliefs". The paper even lists Breibart.com as the first citation! Good find. --[[User:Guy Macon|Guy Macon]] ([[User talk:Guy Macon|talk]]) 16:01, 16 July 2023 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> </table><hr class='diff-hr' id='mw-oldid' /> <h2 class='diff-currentversion-title'>Revision as of 16:01, 16 July 2023</h2> <div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238436933">.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);box-sizing:border-box;color:var(--color-base,#202122)}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .ombox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .ombox-content{border:1px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .ombox-style{border:1px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .ombox-move{border:1px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .ombox-protection{border:2px solid #a2a9b1}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.ombox img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}</style><table class="plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation" style="border:1px solid blue; background-color:transparent; color:var(--color-base, inherit); margin-left:0; margin-right:0;"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MAIN" title="Wikipedia:MAIN"><img alt="Wikipedia's globe icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg/60px-Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg.png" decoding="async" width="60" height="69" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg/90px-Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg/120px-Wikipedia-logo-v2-en.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="135" data-file-height="155"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text" style="font-size:85%; text-align:center;"><b>This is a <span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span>Wiki</span><span>pedia</span></span> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#User_talk_pages" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">user talk page</a>.</b><br/>This is not an encyclopedia article or the talk page for an encyclopedia article. If you find this page on any site other than <span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span>Wiki</span><span>pedia</span>,</span> you are viewing a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Mirrors_and_forks" title="Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks">mirror site</a>. Be aware that the page may be outdated and that the user in whose space this page is located may have no personal affiliation with any site other than <span style="white-space:nowrap;"><span>Wiki</span><span>pedia</span></span>. The original talk page is located at <span class="plainlinks" style="white-space:nowrap;"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased."><span>https://en.wiki</span><span>pedia.org/wi</span><span>ki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.</span></a>.</span></td></tr></tbody></table> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice nutshell" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Walnut.png/30px-Walnut.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Walnut.png/45px-Walnut.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Walnut.png/60px-Walnut.png 2x" data-file-width="192" data-file-height="192"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>This page in a nutshell:</b> Saying that "Wikipedia is biased" or that "Wikipedia fails to follow its own <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">neutral point of view</a> rules" is not a set of <a href="/wiki/Incantation" title="Incantation">magic words</a> that will cause Wikipedia to accept your favorite <a href="/wiki/Conspiracy_theory" title="Conspiracy theory">conspiracy theory</a>, <a href="/wiki/Urban_legend" title="Urban legend">urban myth</a>, <a href="/wiki/Pseudoscience" title="Pseudoscience">pseudoscience</a>, <a href="/wiki/Alternative_medicine" title="Alternative medicine">alternative medicine</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories" title="Wikipedia:Fringe theories">fringe theory</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"> </p> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice mbox-small" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span><br/><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> <table style="width: 100%; padding: 0px; text-align: center; background-color: transparent;"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased./Archive_1" title="User talk:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased./Archive 1">Archive 1</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased./Archive_2" title="User talk:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased./Archive 2">Archive 2</a></td></tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="User talk:Guy Macon/Yes. We are biased./" name="prefix"/><br/><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px;"> <hr/> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>32 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span>.</td></tr> </tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_purpose_of_this_essay" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_purpose_of_this_essay-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_purpose_of_this_essay-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span>The purpose of this essay<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_purpose_of_this_essay-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z-The_purpose_of_this_essay"></span>I wrote this essay to be a teaching tool for those who believe pseudoscience, conspiracy theories, urban myths, and other things which are not supported by any actual evidence. </p><p>For example, the reader may be someone who is a True Believer in <a href="/wiki/Magnetic_water_treatment" title="Magnetic water treatment">magnetic water treatment</a> and who strongly objects to the "bias" in our article on that topic. The same reader is likely to <i>not</i> be a True Believer in <a href="/wiki/Laundry_balls" class="mw-redirect" title="Laundry balls">laundry balls</a> or <a href="/wiki/Phrenology" title="Phrenology">phrenology</a>. My hope is that the reader, by seeing all these other pseudoscientific areas where Wikipedia is "biased" right next to his pet fringe theory, will come to an understanding of why it is that Wikipedia is "biased" against fringe theories in general. </p><p>Of course we know that in many cases this list will fail in that goal, because <i>no</i> argument will convince the fringe theorist. In such cases the secondary goal kicks in. This list also helps those who are responding to accusations of bias. All you have to do is to simply cut and paste the list into a talk page discussion with an edit summary of "Yes. We ARE biased." No need for attribution -- I released it under CC0 specifically so that you can use it as if it was your own. This cutting and pasting has been shown to take the wind out of the sails of many fringe theorists who think that they have found the magic words ("Bias!") that will magically cause Wikipedia to start promoting things that are not true. In general, cutting and pasting the list is more effective than linking to it, because promoters of pseudoscience have trained themselves to ignore the usual links to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>, etc. <small>--<a href="/wiki/User:Guy_Macon" title="User:Guy Macon">Guy Macon</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z-The_purpose_of_this_essay" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:15, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z-The_purpose_of_this_essay"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z-The_purpose_of_this_essay"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Scarpy-2019-09-17T18:30:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span>"Have been thinking good and long about this essay and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Lunatic_charlatans" title="Wikipedia:Lunatic charlatans">Wikipedia:Lunatic charlatans</a>, and I'm coming around more to the POV expressed in them... I am a little bit of a bleeding heart for the True Believers™ but in the balance between skepticism and wonder, it does make sense for Wikipedia to be biased towards skepticism. That's how it's always been most useful to me. <small>--<a href="/wiki/User:Scarpy" title="User:Scarpy">User:Scarpy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Scarpy-2019-09-17T18:30:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:30, 17 September 2019 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Scarpy-2019-09-17T18:30:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Scarpy-2019-09-17T18:30:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tgeorgescu-2021-07-10T15:59:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span>"[This essay] makes clear to everyone what editing Wikipedia is about. So, pseudoscience POV-pushers will be blocked or they will avoid pushing POVs, that choice is entirely theirs. But it makes crystal-clear that they will never prevail here. So, this is about establishing boundaries. Some people are honestly not aware that Wikipedia is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTFREESPEECH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTFREESPEECH">WP:NOTFREESPEECH</a>." <small>--<a href="/wiki/User:Tgeorgescu" title="User:Tgeorgescu">tgeorgescu</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Tgeorgescu-2021-07-10T15:59:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:59, 10 July 2021 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tgeorgescu-2021-07-10T15:59:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tgeorgescu-2021-07-10T15:59:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hob_Gadling-2021-07-10T19:28:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span>"[If you don't like this essay] then let's have a competition: You try to keep more pseudoscience out of articles with your own method, whatever it is." <small>--<a href="/wiki/User:Hob_Gadling" title="User:Hob Gadling">Hob Gadling</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Hob_Gadling-2021-07-10T19:28:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 10 July 2021 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hob_Gadling-2021-07-10T19:28:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hob_Gadling-2021-07-10T19:28:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laodah-2021-10-15T18:34:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span>I believe that this entire essay is a conspiracy to keep me chain-reading article after article about interesting malarkey and its empirical refutations. Thanks a lot, Guy. I'll just clear my calendar. Yours from the rabbit hole, <a href="/wiki/User:Laodah" title="User:Laodah">Laodah</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Laodah-2021-10-15T18:34:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:34, 15 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laodah-2021-10-15T18:34:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laodah-2021-10-15T18:34:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2019-04-21T19:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Guy_Macon-2021-10-18T00:03:00.000Z-Laodah-2021-10-15T18:34:00.000Z"></span>Curses! You have uncovered my Evil Plot! The only thing I can do now is to send you down a deeper rabbit hole. <b>[ <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://tvtropes.org/">https://tvtropes.org/</a> ]</b> BWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!! <a href="/wiki/User:Guy_Macon" title="User:Guy Macon">Guy Macon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon" title="User talk:Guy Macon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Guy_Macon-2021-10-18T00:03:00.000Z-Laodah-2021-10-15T18:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 18 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Guy_Macon-2021-10-18T00:03:00.000Z-Laodah-2021-10-15T18:34:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Guy_Macon-2021-10-18T00:03:00.000Z-Laodah-2021-10-15T18:34:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hob_Gadling-2021-10-18T13:57:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2021-10-18T00:03:00.000Z"></span>I think the correct mad-scientist laugh goes more like "MUHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!" --<a href="/wiki/User:Hob_Gadling" title="User:Hob Gadling">Hob Gadling</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hob_Gadling" title="User talk:Hob Gadling">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Hob_Gadling-2021-10-18T13:57:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2021-10-18T00:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:57, 18 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hob_Gadling-2021-10-18T13:57:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2021-10-18T00:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hob_Gadling-2021-10-18T13:57:00.000Z-Guy_Macon-2021-10-18T00:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Magnetic_therapy_bias" data-mw-thread-id="h-Magnetic_therapy_bias-20230615123100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Magnetic_therapy_bias-20230615123100"></span>Magnetic therapy bias<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Magnetic_therapy_bias-20230615123100"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663-20230615123100-Magnetic_therapy_bias"></span>Maybe you should actually look into things befire you take abuased stance against them, eh? This essay makes you look like an idiot in a few other places, too. </p><p><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://podcasts.ufhealth.org/magnetic-nanoparticles-can-increase-cortisol-production/">https://podcasts.ufhealth.org/magnetic-nanoparticles-can-increase-cortisol-production/</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663" title="Special:Contributions/2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663">2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663-20230615123100-Magnetic_therapy_bias" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:31, 15 June 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663-20230615123100-Magnetic_therapy_bias"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663-20230615123100-Magnetic_therapy_bias"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Guy_Macon-20230623032300-2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663-20230615123100"></span>The above is a typical pseudoscientific alternative medicine argument. See <a href="/wiki/Magnet_therapy" title="Magnet therapy">Magnet therapy</a>. Just because magnets are involved in one kind of experimental treatment (injecting a gland with magnetic particles then causing them to heat up by applying a rapidly alternating magnetic field), that does not establish that a completely different kind of treatment (permanent magnets, no injected particles) has beneficial health effects. Such claims are unproven and no effects of magnets on health or healing have ever been established.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>As for your childish "idiot" namecalling, I refer you to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram. --<a href="/wiki/User:Guy_Macon" title="User:Guy Macon">Guy Macon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon" title="User talk:Guy Macon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Guy_Macon-20230623032300-2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663-20230615123100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:23, 23 June 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Guy_Macon-20230623032300-2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663-20230615123100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Guy_Macon-20230623032300-2603:8000:1B01:866D:D4B3:70D1:3A25:B663-20230615123100"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Help_needed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Help_needed-20230709042800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Help_needed-20230709042800"></span>Help needed<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Help_needed-20230709042800"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Guy_Macon-20230709042800-Help_needed"></span>I would like to ask my loyal <s>minions</s> <s>sycophants</s> <s>fanbois</s> <s>henchmen</s> <s>talk page stalkers</s> talk page watchers for assistance. </p><p>Through the invaluable assistance of others, most of the entries on this list have links to places where someone claimed we are biased against, say, laundry balls.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Laundry_ball/Archives/2017">[1]</a> </p><p>Three items are missing such discussions: </p> <ul><li>We are biased towards science, and biased against pseudoscience.</li></ul> <ul><li>We are biased towards psychology, and biased against phrenology.</li></ul> <ul><li>We are biased towards Mendelism, and biased against Lysenkoism.</li></ul> <p>Can anyone find discussions claiming we are biased against phrenology, Lysenkoism, or pseudoscience? </p><p>Discussions on Wikipedia would be ideal, but even an obsure plog or twitter discussion about how Wikipedia is biased against phrenology would be sufficient to establishe that someone claimed we are biased on that topic. </p><p>If you can fix this, you can expect a little something extra in the paychecks we all get for supressing the <b><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters/">TRUTH</a></b><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://zapatopi.net/blackhelicopters/">[2]</a><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://zapatopi.net/afdb/">[3]</a>... --<a href="/wiki/User:Guy_Macon" title="User:Guy Macon">Guy Macon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon" title="User talk:Guy Macon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Guy_Macon-20230709042800-Help_needed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:28, 9 July 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Guy_Macon-20230709042800-Help_needed"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Guy_Macon-20230709042800-Help_needed"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Buidhe-20230716025000-Guy_Macon-20230709042800"></span>For pseudoscience there's <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://jcom.sissa.it/article/pubid/JCOM_2002_2021_A09/">this</a>, although it mainly claims that we may wrongly classify certain topics as pseudoscience.</dd> <dd>I couldn't find any claim that we were biased against Lysenkoism (maybe it doesn't have many adherents today?) but I did find <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://medium.com/@steersmann/wikipedias-lysenkoism-410901a22da2">the opposite claim</a>. (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Buidhe" title="User talk:Buidhe">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Buidhe" title="Special:Contributions/Buidhe">c</a>) <b><a href="/wiki/User:Buidhe" title="User:Buidhe"><span style="color: black">buidhe</span></a></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Buidhe-20230716025000-Guy_Macon-20230709042800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:50, 16 July 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Buidhe-20230716025000-Guy_Macon-20230709042800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Buidhe-20230716025000-Guy_Macon-20230709042800"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Guy_Macon-20230716160100-Buidhe-20230716025000"></span>Fascinating article on "Wikipedia’s Lysenkoism", but in my opinion completely wrong. The author, while fighting for their preferred definition of such terms as "sex" "gender" and "female" (ignoring the easily observed fact that word definitions and usage change over time) completely mangles the meaning of "Lysenkoism", redefining it as "any deliberate distortion of scientific facts or theories for purposes that are deemed politically, religiously or socially desirable" (it actually refers to one specific set of wrong opinions by Trofim Lysenko and to Joseph Stalin making those wrong opinions the only acceptable biological science in the USSR). Interesting, but not much use in this essay.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>On the other hand, the jcom.sissa.it paper is just what I was looking for. In seems to be quite clearly claiming that Wikipedia is biased against pseudoscience. Example: "their scepticism is applied asymmetrically, always against beliefs contrary to scientific and medical orthodoxy and, and their efforts are invariably against groups espousing those beliefs". The paper even lists Breibart.com as the first citation! Good find. --<a href="/wiki/User:Guy_Macon" title="User:Guy Macon">Guy Macon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon" title="User talk:Guy Macon">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.#c-Guy_Macon-20230716160100-Buidhe-20230716025000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 16 July 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Guy_Macon-20230716160100-Buidhe-20230716025000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Guy_Macon-20230716160100-Buidhe-20230716025000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.&oldid=1165660059">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Guy_Macon/Yes._We_are_biased.&oldid=1165660059</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden category: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Noindexed_pages" title="Category:Noindexed pages">Noindexed pages</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 16 July 2023, at 16:01<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright"><span class="nowraplinks">This version of the page has been <a href="/wiki/Help:Page_history" title="Help:Page history">revised</a>. 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