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href="//login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin-vector-legacy mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-4 ns-subject mw-editable page-Wikidata_Property_proposal_study_or_design_for_this_work rootpage-Wikidata_Property_proposal skin-vector action-view"><div id="mw-page-base" class="noprint"></div> <div id="mw-head-base" class="noprint"></div> <div id="content" class="mw-body" role="main"> <a id="top"></a> <div id="siteNotice"></div> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Wikidata</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Property proposal/study or design for this work</span></h1> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body"> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikidata</div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">< <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal" title="Wikidata:Property proposal">Wikidata:Property proposal</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="contentSub2"></div> <div id="jump-to-nav"></div> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#mw-head">Jump to navigation</a> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#searchInput">Jump to search</a> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="study_or_design_for_this_work" data-mw-thread-id="h-study_or_design_for_this_work-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-study_or_design_for_this_work-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z"></span><span id="study_or_design_for_this_work"></span><span dir="ltr" lang="en">study or design for this work</span><span data-mw-comment-end="h-study_or_design_for_this_work-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: study or design for this work"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Creative_work" title="Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work">Return to Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work</a></p><div class="property-navibox" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r2262253935">.mw-parser-output .property-navibox{background:var(--background-color-progressive-subtle,#f1f4fd);border:3px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1)}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-header{background:var(--background-color-progressive-subtle,#f1f4fd);outline:3px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1);padding:4px}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links{float:right;margin:0}body.rtl .mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links{float:left}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li{display:inline;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li:after{display:inline;content:" – "}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li:last-child:after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main{overflow-x:auto}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox table{display:table;overflow-x:visible}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main tr{vertical-align:text-top}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox[dir="ltr"] .property-navibox-main th{padding-right:1em;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox[dir="rtl"] .property-navibox-main th{padding-left:1em;text-align:right}@media(max-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-header{display:flex;flex-direction:column-reverse}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main>table>tbody>tr>td,.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main>table>tbody>tr>th{display:block}}</style><div class="property-navibox-header"><ul class="property-navibox-links plainlinks"><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li></ul><div><span style="background-color:#CCC;"> </span> Under discussion</div></div><div class="property-navibox-main"><table><tbody><tr><th>Description</th><td><span dir="ltr" lang="en">preliminary work for this finished work</span></td></tr><tr><th>Represents</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q17537576" title="Q17537576">creative work <small>(Q17537576)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Data type</th><td><a href="/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:Data_type#wikibase-item" title="Special:MyLanguage/Help:Data type">Item</a></td></tr><tr><th>Domain</th><td>item</td></tr><tr><th>Allowed values</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q17537576" title="Q17537576">creative work <small>(Q17537576)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 1</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q26699627" title="Q26699627">The Triumph of Pan <small>(Q26699627)</small></a> → <a href="/wiki/Q20392049" title="Q20392049">Triumph of Pan <small>(Q20392049)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 2</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q20091565" title="Q20091565">Jane Seymour <small>(Q20091565)</small></a> → <a href="/wiki/Q62071377" title="Q62071377">Queen Jane Seymour (1508/9-1537) <small>(Q62071377)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 3</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q247282" title="Q247282">Apollo in the Forge of Vulcan <small>(Q247282)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a> : <a href="/wiki/Q37340" title="Q37340">Apollo <small>(Q37340)</small></a> → <a href="/wiki/Q4473883" title="Q4473883">Study for the head of Apollo <small>(Q4473883)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 4</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q18748908" title="Q18748908">The Tulip Folly <small>(Q18748908)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a>:<a href="/wiki/Q2478141" title="Q2478141">aristocrat <small>(Q2478141)</small></a> → <a href="/wiki/Q19862183" title="Q19862183">Dutch Cavalier <small>(Q19862183)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 5</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q5332757" title="Q5332757">Echo and Narcissus <small>(Q5332757)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a>:<a href="/wiki/Q207368" title="Q207368">Echo <small>(Q207368)</small></a> → <a href="/wiki/Q21181748" title="Q21181748">Study for Echo from Echo and Narcissus <small>(Q21181748)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 6</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q17174298" title="Q17174298">The Assassination of the Duke of Guise <small>(Q17174298)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a>:<a href="/wiki/Q313700" title="Q313700">Henry I of Lorraine, duke of Guise <small>(Q313700)</small></a> → <a href="/wiki/Q28939637" title="Q28939637">Dead body of the Duke of Guise <small>(Q28939637)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 7</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q1231009" title="Q1231009">The Coronation of Napoleon <small>(Q1231009)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a>:<a href="/wiki/Q7726" title="Q7726">Joseph Bonaparte <small>(Q7726)</small></a> => <a href="/wiki/Q131147786" title="Q131147786">Prince Joseph Napoleon, Later King of Naples, and Subsequently King of Spain <small>(Q131147786)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 8</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q1231009" title="Q1231009">The Coronation of Napoleon <small>(Q1231009)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a>:<a href="/wiki/Q707712" title="Q707712">Charles-François Lebrun, duc de Plaisance <small>(Q707712)</small></a> => <a href="/wiki/Q131147911" title="Q131147911">Consul Charles-François Lebrun, Duc de Piacenza, Arch-Treasurer of the Empire, Holding the Imperial Insignia <small>(Q131147911)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 9</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q1231009" title="Q1231009">The Coronation of Napoleon <small>(Q1231009)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a>:<a href="/wiki/Q155734" title="Q155734">Louis-Alexandre Berthier, Prince of Neufchatel and of Wagram <small>(Q155734)</small></a> => <a href="/wiki/Q131147947" title="Q131147947">Berthier, Maréchal de France, Holding the Imperial Orb of Charlemagne <small>(Q131147947)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Planned use</th><td>to link artworks with their preliminaey workss</td></tr><tr><th>See also</th><td> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Property:P6606" title="Property:P6606">study or design for <small dir="ltr">(P6606)</small></a> (inverse property), <a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a></li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Motivation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Motivation-study_or_design_for_this_work"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Motivation-study_or_design_for_this_work"></span>Motivation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Motivation-study_or_design_for_this_work"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Motivation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>This property, inverse of <a href="/wiki/Property:P6606" title="Property:P6606">study or design for <small dir="ltr">(P6606)</small></a> will makes it possible to identify this studies or design in the finished work item. It was already suggested but not proposed. It was said that <a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a> could be used but this use has several issues : </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a> has already an inverse property <a href="/wiki/Property:P4969" title="Property:P4969">derivative work <small dir="ltr">(P4969)</small></a>,</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a> has a to much scope, which does not allow easy queries and infobox uses,</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a> should requires the use of a qualifier to identify, that is not done an probably will not be,</li> <li>cannot apply to <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a> with study qualification.</li></ul> <p>With a specific property, as sketches are often about part of an artwork, we could precise the study or design at the <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a> level, what we cannot do properly at present. For the above example, in the painting item <a href="/wiki/Q247282" title="Q247282">Apollo in the Forge of Vulcan <small>(Q247282)</small></a> there is a claim <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a> : <a href="/wiki/Q37340" title="Q37340">Apollo <small>(Q37340)</small></a> which could be qualified to the preparation work : <a href="/wiki/Q4473883" title="Q4473883">Study for the head of Apollo <small>(Q4473883)</small></a>. </p><p>The creation of this property would involve work on the p144 already filled in, in which I would be happy to participate. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion-study_or_design_for_this_work-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion-study_or_design_for_this_work-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z"></span>Discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion-study_or_design_for_this_work-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Discussion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div style="VISIBILITY:hidden;display:none"> <a href="/wiki/User:Zolo" title="User:Zolo"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jane023-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>User:Zolo</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Jane023" title="User:Jane023">Jane023</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jane023" title="User talk:Jane023">talk</a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Jane023-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:50, 30 May 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jane023-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jane023-2013-05-30T08:50:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Vincent_Steenberg" title="User:Vincent Steenberg"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Marsupium-2013-10-18T13:46:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>User:Vincent Steenberg</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Kippelboy" title="User:Kippelboy">User:Kippelboy</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Shonagon" title="User:Shonagon">User:Shonagon</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Marsupium" title="User:Marsupium">Marsupium</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Marsupium" title="User talk:Marsupium">talk</a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Marsupium-2013-10-18T13:46:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:46, 18 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Marsupium-2013-10-18T13:46:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Marsupium-2013-10-18T13:46:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:GautierPoupeau" title="User:GautierPoupeau"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GautierPoupeau-2014-01-09T16:55:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>GautierPoupeau</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GautierPoupeau" title="User talk:GautierPoupeau">talk</a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-GautierPoupeau-2014-01-09T16:55:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:55, 9 January 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GautierPoupeau-2014-01-09T16:55:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GautierPoupeau-2014-01-09T16:55:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Multichill" title="User:Multichill"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Multichill-2014-07-08T19:13:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Multichill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Multichill" title="User talk:Multichill"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Multichill-2014-07-08T19:13:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:13, 8 July 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Multichill-2014-07-08T19:13:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Multichill-2014-07-08T19:13:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> <br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Susannaanas" title="User:Susannaanas"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Susannaanas-2014-08-12T11:32:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Susannaanas</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Susannaanas" title="User talk:Susannaanas"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Susannaanas-2014-08-12T11:32:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:32, 12 August 2014 (UTC)</a> I want to synchronize the handling of maps with this initiative<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Susannaanas-2014-08-12T11:32:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Susannaanas-2014-08-12T11:32:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Mushroom" title="User:Mushroom"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mushroom-2014-08-24T00:10:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Mushroom</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mushroom" title="User talk:Mushroom"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Mushroom-2014-08-24T00:10:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:10, 24 August 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mushroom-2014-08-24T00:10:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mushroom-2014-08-24T00:10:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> <br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jheald-2014-09-09T17:09:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Jheald</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jheald" title="User talk:Jheald"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Jheald-2014-09-09T17:09:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:09, 9 September 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jheald-2014-09-09T17:09:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jheald-2014-09-09T17:09:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> <br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Spinster" title="User:Spinster"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Spinster-2014-09-12T15:16:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Spinster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Spinster" title="User talk:Spinster"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Spinster-2014-09-12T15:16:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 12 September 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Spinster-2014-09-12T15:16:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Spinster-2014-09-12T15:16:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> <br/> <a href="/wiki/User:PKM" title="User:PKM"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PKM-2014-10-08T21:16:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>PKM</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PKM" title="User talk:PKM"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-PKM-2014-10-08T21:16:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:16, 8 October 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PKM-2014-10-08T21:16:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PKM-2014-10-08T21:16:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> <br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Vladimir_Alexiev" title="User:Vladimir Alexiev"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vladimir_Alexiev-2015-01-07T17:12:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Vladimir Alexiev</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vladimir_Alexiev" title="User talk:Vladimir Alexiev"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Vladimir_Alexiev-2015-01-07T17:12:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:12, 7 January 2015‎ (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vladimir_Alexiev-2015-01-07T17:12:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vladimir_Alexiev-2015-01-07T17:12:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> <br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Sic19" title="User:Sic19"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sic19-2016-02-19T21:12:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Sic19</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sic19" title="User talk:Sic19"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Sic19-2016-02-19T21:12:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 19 February 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sic19-2016-02-19T21:12:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sic19-2016-02-19T21:12:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Wittylama" title="User:Wittylama"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wittylama-2017-02-22T13:13:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Wittylama</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wittylama" title="User talk:Wittylama"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Wittylama-2017-02-22T13:13:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:13, 22 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wittylama-2017-02-22T13:13:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wittylama-2017-02-22T13:13:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Armineaghayan" title="User:Armineaghayan"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Armineaghayan-2017-03-10T08:40:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Armineaghayan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Armineaghayan" title="User talk:Armineaghayan"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Armineaghayan-2017-03-10T08:40:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:40, 10 March 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Armineaghayan-2017-03-10T08:40:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Armineaghayan-2017-03-10T08:40:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Musedata102" title="User:Musedata102"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Musedata102-2019-11-26T20:27:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Musedata102</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Musedata102" title="User talk:Musedata102"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Musedata102-2019-11-26T20:27:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:27, 26 November 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Musedata102-2019-11-26T20:27:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Musedata102-2019-11-26T20:27:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Hannolans" title="User:Hannolans"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hannolans-2017-04-16T18:36:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Hannolans</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hannolans" title="User talk:Hannolans"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Hannolans-2017-04-16T18:36:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 16 April 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hannolans-2017-04-16T18:36:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hannolans-2017-04-16T18:36:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Martingggg" title="User:Martingggg"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zeroth-2018-06-04T02:21:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>User:Martingggg</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Zeroth" title="User:Zeroth">Zeroth</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zeroth" title="User talk:Zeroth"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Zeroth-2018-06-04T02:21:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:21, 4 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zeroth-2018-06-04T02:21:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zeroth-2018-06-04T02:21:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:7samurais&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:7samurais (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Infopetal-2019-08-09T17:54:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>User:7samurais</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Mrtngrsbch" title="User:Mrtngrsbch">User:mrtngrsbch</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Buccalon" title="User:Buccalon">User:Buccalon</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Infopetal" title="User:Infopetal">Infopetal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Infopetal" title="User talk:Infopetal"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Infopetal-2019-08-09T17:54:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:54, 9 August 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Infopetal-2019-08-09T17:54:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Infopetal-2019-08-09T17:54:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Karinanw" title="User:Karinanw"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Karinanw-2020-03-24T16:38:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Karinanw</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Karinanw&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Karinanw (page does not exist)"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Karinanw-2020-03-24T16:38:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 24 March 2020‎ (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Karinanw-2020-03-24T16:38:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Karinanw-2020-03-24T16:38:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Ahc84" title="User:Ahc84"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ahc84-2020-08-26T17:38:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Ahc84</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ahc84" title="User talk:Ahc84"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Ahc84-2020-08-26T17:38:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:38, 26 August 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ahc84-2020-08-26T17:38:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ahc84-2020-08-26T17:38:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:BeatrixBelibaste" title="User:BeatrixBelibaste"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bitofdust-2021-03-26T22:52:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>User:BeatrixBelibaste</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Valeriummaximum" title="User:Valeriummaximum">Valeriummaximum</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Bitofdust" title="User:Bitofdust">Bitofdust</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bitofdust" title="User talk:Bitofdust"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Bitofdust-2021-03-26T22:52:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:52, 26 March 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bitofdust-2021-03-26T22:52:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bitofdust-2021-03-26T22:52:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Mathieu_Kappler" title="User:Mathieu Kappler"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zblace-2021-12-24T07:22:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Mathieu Kappler</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Zblace" title="User:Zblace">Zblace</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zblace" title="User talk:Zblace"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Zblace-2021-12-24T07:22:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:22, 24 December 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zblace-2021-12-24T07:22:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zblace-2021-12-24T07:22:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Oursana" title="User:Oursana"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Oursana-2022-05-17T13:16:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Oursana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Oursana" title="User talk:Oursana"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Oursana-2022-05-17T13:16:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:16, 17 May 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Oursana-2022-05-17T13:16:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Oursana-2022-05-17T13:16:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Ham_II" title="User:Ham II"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ham_II-20240125083000-Discussion"></span>Ham II</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ham_II" title="User talk:Ham II"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Ham_II-20240125083000-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:30, 25 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ham_II-20240125083000-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ham_II-20240125083000-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:DaxServer" title="User:DaxServer"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DaxServer-20240524160000-Discussion"></span>DaxServer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DaxServer" title="User talk:DaxServer"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-DaxServer-20240524160000-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:00, 24 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DaxServer-20240524160000-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DaxServer-20240524160000-Discussion"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Ebakogianni" title="User:Ebakogianni"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-62.122.184.227-20241007110400-Discussion"></span>User:Ebakogianni</a><br/> :<b>Bold</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/62.122.184.227" title="Special:Contributions/62.122.184.227">62.122.184.227</a> <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-62.122.184.227-20241007110400-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:04, 7 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-62.122.184.227-20241007110400-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-62.122.184.227-20241007110400-Discussion"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shonagon-20241111115400-Discussion"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/23px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> Notified <a href="/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Visual_arts/Participants" title="Wikidata:WikiProject Visual arts/Participants">participants of WikiProject Visual arts</a> </p><ul><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b> <a href="/wiki/User:Shonagon" title="User:Shonagon">Shonagon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shonagon" title="User talk:Shonagon"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Shonagon-20241111115400-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:54, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shonagon-20241111115400-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shonagon-20241111115400-Discussion"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BeatrixBelibaste-20241111125000-Shonagon-20241111115400"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b> --<a href="/wiki/User:BeatrixBelibaste" title="User:BeatrixBelibaste">BeatrixBelibaste</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BeatrixBelibaste" title="User talk:BeatrixBelibaste"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-BeatrixBelibaste-20241111125000-Shonagon-20241111115400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BeatrixBelibaste-20241111125000-Shonagon-20241111115400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BeatrixBelibaste-20241111125000-Shonagon-20241111115400"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jane023-20241111140200-Shonagon-20241111115400"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/23px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> <b>Comment</b> If you still need a qualifier anyway, then I don't see the difference with <a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a>/<a href="/wiki/Property:P4969" title="Property:P4969">derivative work <small dir="ltr">(P4969)</small></a>. I guess I would approve a "related work" property that leaves the whole time issue (what came first?) neutral. In your example, it's not clear from the creation dates in both paintings that one head of Apollo is a study or inspired by the other painting, because the inception dates are so far apart. I do find it frustrating that it's so hard to model the statements to form the relationships. You can use the qualifier <a href="/wiki/Property:P518" title="Property:P518">applies to part, aspect, or form <small dir="ltr">(P518)</small></a> to specify which part of the painting is meant. I think it is perfectly valid to use <a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a> multiple times for group portraits. You can use qualifiers to pin it down. For large paintings, multiple studies were made. I guess I don't think <a href="/wiki/Property:P4969" title="Property:P4969">derivative work <small dir="ltr">(P4969)</small></a> is too precise, though it's mostly used on close copies. When it comes to partial copies I think it's OK to keep using it. Things get tricky when the same portraits are used over and over again but in different contexts, such as in the multiple versions of paintings of the protestant reformers such as <a href="/wiki/Q43463266" title="Q43463266">The Protestant Reformers <small>(Q43463266)</small></a>. Many of these were based on prints. <a href="/wiki/User:Jane023" title="User:Jane023">Jane023</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jane023" title="User talk:Jane023"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Jane023-20241111140200-Shonagon-20241111115400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:02, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jane023-20241111140200-Shonagon-20241111115400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jane023-20241111140200-Shonagon-20241111115400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shonagon-20241111143800-Jane023-20241111140200"></span>Thanks for you reply. In this example, the information state that this a study. Ther eare many others example where there is a preparative work: <a href="/wiki/Q29840528" title="Q29840528">Diana begs Jupiter not to subject her to the hymen <small>(Q29840528)</small></a> has for study <a href="/wiki/Q27831918" title="Q27831918">Q27831918</a> ; <a href="/wiki/Q21191005" title="Q21191005">Ophelia <small>(Q21191005)</small></a> has <a href="/wiki/Q21192341" title="Q21192341">Study for Ophelia <small>(Q21192341)</small></a>. Of course for several portraits, or others artworks linked (for example <a href="/wiki/Q11826275" title="Q11826275">The siesta (after Millet) <small>(Q11826275)</small></a> <a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a> <a href="/wiki/Q19696670" title="Q19696670">Noonday Rest <small>(Q19696670)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a> is valid and more the property tyo use. For a qualification with <a href="/wiki/Property:P144" title="Property:P144">based on <small dir="ltr">(P144)</small></a> on <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a> we can not use qualifications like to specify that it a study, because we can not qualify a qualification. That was I was pointing on the <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a> : <a href="/wiki/Q37340" title="Q37340">Apollo <small>(Q37340)</small></a> example. A specific property would resolve this issue and not being too tricky as you said. The need to link a specific <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a> explicitly to a study lead to this proposal. Best regards. <a href="/wiki/User:Shonagon" title="User:Shonagon">Shonagon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shonagon" title="User talk:Shonagon"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Shonagon-20241111143800-Jane023-20241111140200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shonagon-20241111143800-Jane023-20241111140200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shonagon-20241111143800-Jane023-20241111140200"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Jane023" title="User:Jane023"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shonagon-20241111184500-Jane023-20241111140200"></span>Jane023</a> More examples are added to more explain the need with <a href="/wiki/Property:P180" title="Property:P180">depicts <small dir="ltr">(P180)</small></a> statements and to show the potentiality with the proposed property. Best regards <a href="/wiki/User:Shonagon" title="User:Shonagon">Shonagon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shonagon" title="User talk:Shonagon"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Shonagon-20241111184500-Jane023-20241111140200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shonagon-20241111184500-Jane023-20241111140200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shonagon-20241111184500-Jane023-20241111140200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jane023-20241112155800-Shonagon-20241111184500"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b> OK I see what you mean about not being able to qualify a qualifier. For queries it could be useful to handle such partial studies this way. I will support this now. <a href="/wiki/User:Jane023" title="User:Jane023">Jane023</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jane023" title="User talk:Jane023"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Jane023-20241112155800-Shonagon-20241111184500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jane023-20241112155800-Shonagon-20241111184500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jane023-20241112155800-Shonagon-20241111184500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PKM-20241111234300-Shonagon-20241111115400"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b> (Note i generally like inverse properties.)- <a href="/wiki/User:PKM" title="User:PKM">PKM</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PKM" title="User talk:PKM"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-PKM-20241111234300-Shonagon-20241111115400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PKM-20241111234300-Shonagon-20241111115400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PKM-20241111234300-Shonagon-20241111115400"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ebakogianni-20241113214900-Shonagon-20241111115400"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/23px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> <b>Comment</b> The suggested label is "<i>study or design</i>" or "<i>has study or design</i>" I guess. Certainly a useful property, it's just that I am not sure if we should mix the type of relationship between two works with the type of work. Ideally I would prefer a label with a broader scope, for example "preparatory work", in order to express the relationship, and let the <a href="/wiki/Property:P31" title="Property:P31">instance of <small dir="ltr">(P31)</small></a> statement of the related work specify whether this is a drawing, a model, a manuscript, a musical score or any other kind of work that was a step in the creative process of the related finished work. Note: My original intention when I started writing this comment was to support the proposal. I have a visual arts museum background and, in this perspective, "study or design" makes perfect sense. But when I think about it in the context of Wikidata as a whole, I find it difficult to decide. <a href="/wiki/User:Ebakogianni" title="User:Ebakogianni">Ebakogianni</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ebakogianni&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Ebakogianni (page does not exist)"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Ebakogianni-20241113214900-Shonagon-20241111115400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:49, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ebakogianni-20241113214900-Shonagon-20241111115400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ebakogianni-20241113214900-Shonagon-20241111115400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shonagon-20241116183900-Ebakogianni-20241113214900"></span>Hello @<a href="/wiki/User:Ebakogianni" title="User:Ebakogianni">Ebakogianni</a> Indeed the scope should be broad to "preparatory work". This is a question of label because for the French label, it is proposed as you say "étude ou travail préparatoire". The concept is the same and that could improved by English speakers. In practice with the property, we could link easily a lot from artworks or details to studies, where Wikidata has a great potential. Best regards <a href="/wiki/User:Shonagon" title="User:Shonagon">Shonagon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shonagon" title="User talk:Shonagon"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Shonagon-20241116183900-Ebakogianni-20241113214900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:39, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shonagon-20241116183900-Ebakogianni-20241113214900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shonagon-20241116183900-Ebakogianni-20241113214900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ebakogianni-20241116195800-Shonagon-20241116183900"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b> Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Shonagon" title="User:Shonagon">Shonagon</a>. Thanks for your reply. Indeed, the french label is more accurate and applicable to creative works that do not necessarily belong to the visual arts. <a href="/wiki/User:Ebakogianni" title="User:Ebakogianni">Ebakogianni</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ebakogianni&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Ebakogianni (page does not exist)"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/study_or_design_for_this_work#c-Ebakogianni-20241116195800-Shonagon-20241116183900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:58, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ebakogianni-20241116195800-Shonagon-20241116183900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span 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