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edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Both_dead_and_alive">→<bdi dir="ltr">Both dead and alive</bdi></a>: </span> Reply</span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle5"><span class="mw-tag-markers"><a href="/wiki/Special:Tags" title="Special:Tags">Tag</a>: <span class="mw-tag-marker mw-tag-marker-discussiontools-reply"><a class="external text" href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:DiscussionTools">Reply</a></span></span></div><div id="mw-diff-otitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&diff=prev&oldid=1258095199" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif" id="differences-prevlink">← Previous edit</a></div></td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-ntitle diff-side-added"><div id="mw-diff-ntitle1"><strong><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&oldid=1258340277" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif">Revision as of 04:20, 19 November 2024</a> <span class="mw-diff-edit"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&oldid=1258340277" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif">edit</a></span><span class="mw-diff-timestamp" data-timestamp="2024-11-19T04:20:44Z"></span> <span class="mw-diff-undo"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&action=edit&undoafter=1258095199&undo=1258340277" title=""Undo" reverts this edit and opens the edit form in preview mode. It allows adding a reason in the summary.">undo</a></span></strong></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle2"><a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Ïvana" data-mw-revid="1258340277"><bdi>Ïvana</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/%C3%8Fvana" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/Ïvana">contribs</a>)</span><div class="mw-diff-usermetadata"><div class="mw-diff-userroles"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_confirmed_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Extended confirmed editors">Extended confirmed users</a></div><div class="mw-diff-usereditcount"><span>15,286</span> edits</div></div></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle3"> <span class="comment comment--without-parentheses"><span class="autocomment"><a href="#Both_dead_and_alive">→<bdi dir="ltr">Both dead and alive</bdi></a>: </span> Reply</span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle5"><span class="mw-tag-markers"><a href="/wiki/Special:Tags" title="Special:Tags">Tag</a>: <span class="mw-tag-marker mw-tag-marker-discussiontools-reply"><a class="external text" href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:DiscussionTools">Reply</a></span></span></div><div id="mw-diff-ntitle4"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Mohammed_Deif&diff=next&oldid=1258340277" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif" id="differences-nextlink">Next edit →</a></div></td> </tr><tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 101:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 101:</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>::::::::::::::::''{{tq|The newspaper claims Hamas said one thing}}.</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>::::::::::::::::''{{tq|The newspaper claims Hamas said one thing}}.</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>::::::::::::::::No, [[Asharq Al-Awsat]] did not attribute anything to Hamas. The newspaper attributed their findings to sources within Hamas. There is a big difference between official statements that come from Hamas, and statements made by individual operatives. [[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] ([[User talk:The Mountain of Eden|talk]]) 03:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>::::::::::::::::No, [[Asharq Al-Awsat]] did not attribute anything to Hamas. The newspaper attributed their findings to sources within Hamas. There is a big difference between official statements that come from Hamas, and statements made by individual operatives. [[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] ([[User talk:The Mountain of Eden|talk]]) 03:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td> <td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td> <td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>:::::::::::::::::This is clearly going nowhere. I linked this discussion in the BLP noticeboard (and pinged you there) to see if any uninvolved editor with experience in BLPs feels like giving their two cents. Hope that's ok. - [[User:Ïvana|Ïvana]] ([[User talk:Ïvana|talk]]) 04:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>:@[[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] if you want to see an example, go to [[Massoud Rajavi]], someone who has been both death and alive for two decades.'''[[User talk:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>(Please [[Template:Ping|ping]] on reply)</sub> 21:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>:@[[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] if you want to see an example, go to [[Massoud Rajavi]], someone who has been both death and alive for two decades.'''[[User talk:Vice regent|VR]]''' <sub>(Please [[Template:Ping|ping]] on reply)</sub> 21:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>::A person who has disappeared is not the same as this case in which a person has been confirmed to be dead, but there is a group that continues to deny the death. [[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] ([[User talk:The Mountain of Eden|talk]]) 04:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> <td class="diff-marker"></td> <td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>::A person who has disappeared is not the same as this case in which a person has been confirmed to be dead, but there is a group that continues to deny the death. [[User:The Mountain of Eden|The Mountain of Eden]] ([[User talk:The Mountain of Eden|talk]]) 04:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</div></td> </tr> </table><hr class='diff-hr' id='mw-oldid' /> <h2 class='diff-currentversion-title'>Revision as of 04:20, 19 November 2024</h2> <div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1230750088">.mw-parser-output .talkheader{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-body{display:flex}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{display:flex;align-items:center;padding:0.1em}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help{flex:2 1 auto;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#ffffff);color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies+.talkheader-policies{border-left:1px solid #c0c090}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{flex:0 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts>*{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help ul,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies ul{margin:0.1em 0.8em 0 1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Mohammed_Deif" title="Mohammed Deif">Mohammed Deif</a> article.<br/> This is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a> for general discussion of the article's subject.</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Talk:Mohammed_Deif" title="Special:NewSection/Talk:Mohammed Deif">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? 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padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Mohammed Deif/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span title="Good articles"><img alt="Good articles" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/45px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="45" height="46" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/68px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/90px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>Mohammed Deif</b> was nominated as a <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_articles/Social_sciences_and_society" title="Wikipedia:Good articles/Social sciences and society">Social sciences and society good article</a></b></i>, but it did not meet the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Good article criteria">good article criteria</a> at the time (April 10, 2024, <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammed_Deif&oldid=1217417357">reviewed version</a></span>). There are suggestions on <b><a href="/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif/GA1" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif/GA1">the review page</a></b> for improving the article. If you can improve it, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold" title="Wikipedia:Be bold">please do</a>; it may then be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_nominations" title="Wikipedia:Good article nominations">renominated</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-content wpb-outside banner-shell-outside" role="presentation" style="background: var(--background-color-warning-subtle, #fef6e7); border: 1px solid var(--border-color-base, #a2a9b1); color: inherit;"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td><td class="mbox-text">This article must adhere to the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons">biographies of living persons</a></b> (<b>BLP</b>) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. 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.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_personal.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/25px-Crystal_personal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/38px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/50px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="70" data-file-height="70"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography">Biography</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">Military</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles"><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><span title="An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article."><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/20px-Camera-photo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/30px-Camera-photo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/40px-Camera-photo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></span></span></span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_personal.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/60px-Crystal_personal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="60" height="60" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/90px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/120px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="70" data-file-height="70"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239009302">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/28px-P_vip.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/41px-P_vip.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/55px-P_vip.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1911" data-file-height="1944"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Biography" title="Portal:Biography">Biography portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography">WikiProject Biography</a></b>, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Members">join the project</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography">contribute to the discussion</a>. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Biography/doc" title="Template:WikiProject Biography/doc">documentation</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Biography</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">biography articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Swords.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/25px-Swords.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/38px-Swords.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/50px-Swords.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">the military biography work group</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_biography_(military)_articles" title="Category:Low-importance biography (military) articles">Low-importance</a>).</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Camera-photo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Note icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/25px-Camera-photo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/38px-Camera-photo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Camera-photo.svg/50px-Camera-photo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">An editor has requested that an <b>image</b> or <b>photograph</b> be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Uploading_images" title="Wikipedia:Uploading images">added</a> to this article.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palestine.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/35px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/53px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/70px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">Palestine</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-mid">Mid‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palestine.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/80px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/120px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/160px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/32px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/48px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Flag_of_Palestine.svg/64px-Flag_of_Palestine.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Palestine" title="Portal:Palestine">Palestine portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">WikiProject Palestine</a></b>, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic <a href="/wiki/Palestine_(region)" title="Palestine (region)">Palestine</a> region, the <a href="/wiki/Palestinian_people" class="mw-redirect" title="Palestinian people">Palestinian people</a> and the <a href="/wiki/State_of_Palestine" title="State of Palestine">State of Palestine</a> on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">the project page</a>, where you can add your name to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Members">list of members</a> where you can contribute to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine">discussions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Palestine</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Palestine</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Palestine-related articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-mid"><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Palestine-related_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Palestine-related articles">Mid</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Mid-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Arrest.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/25px-Arrest.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/38px-Arrest.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/50px-Arrest.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="300" data-file-height="300"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography">Crime and Criminal Biography</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography/Terrorism_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Terrorism task force">Terrorism</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Arrest.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/60px-Arrest.svg.png" decoding="async" width="60" height="60" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/90px-Arrest.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3d/Arrest.svg/120px-Arrest.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="300" data-file-height="300"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography">WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Crime and Criminal Biography</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Crime-related articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Crime-related_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Crime-related articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Bomby_trans.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Bomby_trans.svg/30px-Bomby_trans.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Bomby_trans.svg/45px-Bomby_trans.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Bomby_trans.svg/60px-Bomby_trans.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="513" data-file-height="431"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography/Terrorism_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography/Terrorism task force">the Terrorism task force</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Terrorism_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Terrorism articles">Low-importance</a>).</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/19px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" decoding="async" width="19" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/28px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/37px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 2x" data-file-width="405" data-file-height="540"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death">Death</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/80px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" decoding="async" width="80" height="107" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/120px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/160px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 2x" data-file-width="405" data-file-height="540"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death">WikiProject Death</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Death" title="Death">Death</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Death">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Death</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Death</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Death</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Death articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Death_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Death articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/25px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/38px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">Biography</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Middle_Eastern_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Middle Eastern military history task force">Middle East</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/North_American_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/North American military history task force">North America</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/United_States_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/United States military history task force">United States</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Cold_War_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Cold War task force">Cold War</a></span> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/75px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/100px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history WikiProject</a></b>. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Open_tasks" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Open tasks">list of open tasks</a>. To use this banner, please see the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Template:WikiProject Military history">full instructions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Military history</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">military history articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess-b" style="padding-bottom:5px"><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment/B-Class_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment/B-Class criteria"><img alt="B checklist" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/20px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/30px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/40px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="plainlinks mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th class="wpb-collapsed-head mbox-text" colspan="3" style="font-weight:normal">This article has been checked against the following <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Quality_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment">criteria</a></b> for B-class status:</th><td style="min-width:3em"></td></tr><tr><td style="font-size:90%"><ol><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Referencing and citation: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Coverage and accuracy: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Structure: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Grammar and style: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Supporting materials: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li></ol></td><td style="font-size:88%"></td><td class="empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Associated task forces:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:50px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_personal.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/30px-Crystal_personal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/45px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/60px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="70" data-file-height="70"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">Military biography task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Middle_East_geographic.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/34px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg" decoding="async" width="34" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/50px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Middle_East_geographic.jpg/67px-Middle_East_geographic.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1026" data-file-height="918"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Middle_Eastern_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Middle Eastern military history task force">Middle Eastern military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/28px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg" decoding="async" width="28" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/42px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg/56px-North_America_satellite_orthographic.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1624" data-file-height="1748"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/North_American_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/North American military history task force">North American military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:United_States_Arms.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/United_States_Arms.svg/27px-United_States_Arms.svg.png" decoding="async" width="27" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/United_States_Arms.svg/41px-United_States_Arms.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/United_States_Arms.svg/54px-United_States_Arms.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="660"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/United_States_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/United States military history task force">United States military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Cold_War_Map_1959.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Cold_War_Map_1959.svg/43px-Cold_War_Map_1959.svg.png" decoding="async" width="43" height="22" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Cold_War_Map_1959.svg/65px-Cold_War_Map_1959.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Cold_War_Map_1959.svg/86px-Cold_War_Map_1959.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="940" data-file-height="477"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Cold_War_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Cold War task force">Cold War task force</a> (c. 1945 – c. 1989)</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Commons-emblem-hand.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/40px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/60px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Commons-emblem-hand.svg/80px-Commons-emblem-hand.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><strong style="text-transform: uppercase;">Warning: active arbitration remedies</strong><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics</a> procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the <a href="/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict" title="Arab–Israeli conflict">Arab–Israeli conflict</a>, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:</p><b> <div><ul><li>You must be logged-in and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:User_access_levels#Extendedconfirmed" title="Wikipedia:User access levels">extended-confirmed</a> to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests#Making_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">making edit requests</a>, provided they are not disruptive)</li><li>You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic</li></ul></div></b><p>Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">purpose of Wikipedia</a>, any expected <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette" title="Wikipedia:Etiquette">standards of behaviour</a>, or any <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">normal editorial process</a> may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics procedures</a> before editing this page.</p> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="background-color: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid var(--border-color-subtle, #c8ccd1); margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th style="background-color: #EEE8AA; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align: left;"><div style="display: inline; font-size: 115%; color: #202122;">Further information</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="border: solid 1px var(--border-color-subtle, #c8ccd1); padding: 8px; background-color: var(--background-color-base, #fff); color: var(--color-base, #202122);"> <div>The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are: <ol><li>Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace <strong>only to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests#Making_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">make edit requests</a></strong> related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.</li> <li>Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. 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When in doubt, don't revert!</div> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p><br/> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"> </p> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice mbox-small" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span><br/><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> <p><a href="/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif/Archive_1" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif/Archive 1">1</a> </p> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Mohammed Deif/" name="prefix"/><br/><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px;"> <hr/> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>20 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span>.</td></tr> </tbody></table> <p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Survived_5_other_attacks?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Survived_5_other_attacks?"><span id="Survived_5_other_attacks.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Survived_5_other_attacks?"></span>Survived 5 other attacks?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Survived_5_other_attacks?"></span></h2></div> <p>If this is true and not hearsay, a reference should be included. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_assertions_he’s_dead?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass-20240825114100"><span id="Why_is_Hamas.E2.80.99_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF.E2.80.99s_assertions_he.E2.80.99s_dead.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass-20240825114100"></span>Why is Hamas’ claims of him being alive given more weight than the IDF’s assertions he’s dead?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass-20240825114100"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span>Hamas is a terrorist group that has nothing to gain by confirming his death. It will only hurt their morale. On the other hand, the IDF’s intelligence confirming Deif was eliminated in the strike seems pretty well supported. For what it’s worth, Hamas hasn’t confirmed Marwan Issa’s death either but that’s still confirmed according to Wikipedia. So why the double standard for Deif? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D" title="Special:Contributions/2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D">2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:41, 25 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"></span>Because it's Wikipedia. It's not supposed to make sense. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD" title="Special:Contributions/2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD">2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 26 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828040400-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"></span>So true. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3" title="Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3">2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828040400-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:04, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828040400-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828040400-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"></span>Hamas admitted it.</dd> <dd>No reason for this discussion to continue.</dd> <dd>Citation: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-now-accepts-israel-killed-muhammad-deif-has-arrested-2-people-sources-tell-paper/">https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-now-accepts-israel-killed-muhammad-deif-has-arrested-2-people-sources-tell-paper/</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:LesbianTiamat" title="User:LesbianTiamat">LesbianTiamat (She/Her)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:LesbianTiamat" title="User talk:LesbianTiamat">troll/pester</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900-2600:1700:E255:10:5C12:F40:3B57:33BD-20240826214200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103191200-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900"></span>Awesome work, @<a href="/wiki/User:LesbianTiamat" title="User:LesbianTiamat">LesbianTiamat</a>. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103191200-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:12, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103191200-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103191200-LesbianTiamat-20241103175900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"></span>When the idf can show us his body, and his exact picture at the moment they dropped a one-tonne bomb in an area where civilians were sheltering in tents then we can talk <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:25, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500-2401:D002:8705:D400:E947:7A4C:5443:534D-20240825114100"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-160.78.149.35-20240828155600-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"></span>His body was blown to smithereens, so it won't be showed. It would be much easier for Hamas to diffuse an audio or video proving he is alive, no? --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/160.78.149.35" title="Special:Contributions/160.78.149.35">160.78.149.35</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:160.78.149.35&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:160.78.149.35 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-160.78.149.35-20240828155600-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-160.78.149.35-20240828155600-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-160.78.149.35-20240828155600-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"></span>Israel is the accuser. The burden of proof is on them. Their silly infographics won’t work and have numerous times proven to be false <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-160.78.149.35-20240828155600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"></span>As always, history repeats itself! The article mentions how Israel claimed Deif was assasinated in 2014, which was disproven in 2015... I just think it will take time for Deif to be confirmed alive <a href="/wiki/User:Deus_vult_fratres!" title="User:Deus vult fratres!">Deus vult fratres!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deus_vult_fratres!" title="User talk:Deus vult fratres!">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200-160.78.149.35-20240828155600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200-160.78.149.35-20240828155600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200"></span>The article currently states:</dd> <dd>In August 2014, during the <a href="/wiki/2014_Gaza_War" title="2014 Gaza War">2014 Gaza War</a>, the Israeli air force attempted to assassinate him with an airstrike on the Deif family home in <a href="/wiki/Sheikh_Radwan" title="Sheikh Radwan">Sheikh Radwan</a> in <a href="/wiki/Gaza_City" title="Gaza City">Gaza City</a>. Hamas denied that Deif was killed, and his survival was confirmed by Israeli intelligence in 2015.</dd> <dd>If Israel falsely claimed that Deif was assassinated, that should definitely be explicitly stated <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Jesse Flynn (pseudonym) (page does not exist)">Jesse Flynn (pseudonym)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)" title="User talk:Jesse Flynn (pseudonym)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:06, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600-Deus_vult_fratres!-20240907222200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20241018180100-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600"></span>Weird, I think I didn't read this on Wikipedia ... or that the article was edited <a href="/wiki/User:Deus_vult_fratres!" title="User:Deus vult fratres!">Deus vult fratres!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deus_vult_fratres!" title="User talk:Deus vult fratres!">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20241018180100-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20241018180100-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Deus_vult_fratres!-20241018180100-Jesse_Flynn_(pseudonym)-20241018020600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"></span>I love how you felt the need to bring up the civilians as though it's relevant to this too, lmao. Yeah you're not biased at all, Mule <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3" title="Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3">2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828122500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400"></span>Maybe because the people bombed were civilians? I don’t know, maybe where you’re at you’re taught Palestinians are animals that can be slaughtered in any number and not actual human beings. My bias (more like common sense really) doesn’t matter here <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:06, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240828163400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240831010800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600"></span>Riiiiiight. Well, I won't say more since apparently your outrageous bias and false accusations are allowed here but responses to it get deleted, so I'll just wish you luck with that BS, Mule. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3" title="Special:Contributions/2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3">2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240831010800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:08, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240831010800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2603:9008:2101:E2F3:425:A6EF:6530:D9C3-20240831010800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240828170600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammed_Deif&diff=prev&oldid=1242634160"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span>I fixed it</a> by writing into the infobox details about his death with the parenthetical statement that it's disputed by Hamas. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:24, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PrimaPrime-20240829163100-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400"></span>FWIW Al-Arabiya has for a couple weeks had a report citing a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.alarabiya.net/arab-and-world/2024/08/12/%D8%B3%D8%A7%D8%B9%D9%8A-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D9%8A%D8%AF-%D9%85%D9%86-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%85-%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86-%D9%88%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A1-%D8%A7%D8%BA%D8%AA%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%84-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B6%D9%8A%D9%81-%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%A7%D8%AF%D8%B1-%D8%AA%D9%83%D8%B4%D9%81">"Hamas source" as having confirmed</a> Deif's death. This would support your approach. <a href="/wiki/User:PrimaPrime" title="User:PrimaPrime">PrimaPrime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PrimaPrime" title="User talk:PrimaPrime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-PrimaPrime-20240829163100-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:31, 29 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PrimaPrime-20240829163100-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PrimaPrime-20240829163100-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240828182400"></span> <dl><dd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammed_Deif&diff=1244001253&oldid=1243572152"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900-PrimaPrime-20240829163100"></span>This sequence of edits (along with the edit summary)</a> seems to establish a new standard that unless Hamas officially confirms the death of its leaders, Wikipedia will not use other references that do confirm a death. I would think that would be a gross violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900-PrimaPrime-20240829163100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:49, 8 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900-PrimaPrime-20240829163100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900-PrimaPrime-20240829163100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240911111900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900"></span>I am not a participant in that sequence, however for example leaders which Hamas did not confirm the assassination of are still listed as killed (most notably Marwan Issa, Hamas did not confirm his death).</dd> <dd>the reason Mohammad deif’s “assassination” is so controversial is that there are two parties involved already clashing with each other on wether he was killed, the lack of conclusive evidence of this supposed assassination and most controversially the manner of this “assassination” where 90 civilians were killed because Israel dropped several 1-tonne bombs (gladly supplied by America) over areas where civilians were sheltering <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240911111900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:19, 11 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240911111900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240911111900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240908014900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div> <p><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mohammed_Deif&diff=prev&oldid=1246761570"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span>Per edit summary in this edit</a>, Deif will continue to be shown on Wikipedia as alive until 2080, unless Hamas confirms his death before that. <br/> But it may be possible that we could shave 6 years off of that, allowing Wikipedia to show Deif as dead as soon as 2074. The IDF obviously has evidence that Deif is dead, otherwise they wouldn't confirm his death — they would continue to put him on their most wanted list. As far as I understand, all military secrets in Israel are declassified after 50 years, so the evidence may be declassified in 2074 (but there may be a mechanism to extend the classifications of certain classified material by another 25 years, I'm not really sure).<br/><br/> Until then, let Deif live his life on Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100-Why_is_Hamas’_claims_of_him_being_alive_given_more_weight_than_the_IDF’s_ass"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100"></span>When the sole party alleging to have “assassinated” him has a track record of lying when they <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-mideast-latest-06-07-2024-cbc1aa84bc30b5f27dc1823155448f86#">Bomb civilians and claim to target individual militants</a>, then the thing someone with common sense would do is to treat their allegations as nothing more than allegations <a href="/wiki/User:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">The Great Mule of Eupatoria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria" title="User talk:The Great Mule of Eupatoria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:12, 23 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240920231100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240930192800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200"></span>Take a look at the <a href="/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif/FAQ" title="Talk:Mohammed Deif/FAQ">FAQ</a> for a more detailed analysis. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240930192800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240930192800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20240930192800-The_Great_Mule_of_Eupatoria-20240923051200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Description_of_Mohammed_Deif" data-mw-thread-id="h-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif-20241005132300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif-20241005132300"></span>Description of Mohammed Deif<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif-20241005132300"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dori1951-20241005132300-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif"></span>In the first paragraph of the main article Mohammed Deif is described as a "militant". This is BBC language. He is/was a terrorist and should be described as such. His al-Qassam Brigades were nothing other than a terrorist group. <a href="/wiki/User:Dori1951" title="User:Dori1951">Dori1951</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dori1951" title="User talk:Dori1951">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Dori1951-20241005132300-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:23, 5 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dori1951-20241005132300-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dori1951-20241005132300-Description_of_Mohammed_Deif"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241005191000-Dori1951-20241005132300"></span><span class="nowrap"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/18px-X_mark.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/27px-X_mark.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/36px-X_mark.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="525" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> <b>Not done</b></span>, see <a href="/wiki/MOS:TERRORIST" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:TERRORIST">MOS:TERRORIST</a>. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241005191000-Dori1951-20241005132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 5 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241005191000-Dori1951-20241005132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241005191000-Dori1951-20241005132300"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241008142300-Dori1951-20241005132300"></span>You can also take a look at <a href="/wiki/One_man%E2%80%99s_terrorist_is_another_man%E2%80%99s_freedom_fighter" class="mw-redirect" title="One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter">One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241008142300-Dori1951-20241005132300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:23, 8 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241008142300-Dori1951-20241005132300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241008142300-Dori1951-20241005132300"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death." data-mw-thread-id="h-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241102230200"><span id="Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif.27s_death."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241102230200"></span>Asharq Al-Awsat confirms Deif's death.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241102230200"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death."></span>Here is the source linked to the Saudi Arabia owned newspaper: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/5077358-new-evidence-suggests-death-qassam-brigades-leader">https://english.aawsat.com/arab-world/5077358-new-evidence-suggests-death-qassam-brigades-leader</a> <a href="/wiki/User:ULLIRALDMOOR" title="User:ULLIRALDMOOR">ULLIRALDMOOR</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ULLIRALDMOOR&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:ULLIRALDMOOR (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:02, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death."></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200"></span>Good work. I have <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/1255213406" title="Special:Diff/1255213406">incorporated this reference into the article</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000-ULLIRALDMOOR-20241102230200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pachu_Kannan-20241104122800-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000"></span>Hamas denied this per <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2024/11/03/hamas-denies-martyrdom-of-its-military-leader-mohammed-deif">https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2024/11/03/hamas-denies-martyrdom-of-its-military-leader-mohammed-deif</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Pachu_Kannan" title="User:Pachu Kannan">Pachu Kannan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pachu_Kannan" title="User talk:Pachu Kannan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Pachu_Kannan-20241104122800-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:28, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pachu_Kannan-20241104122800-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pachu_Kannan-20241104122800-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241103192000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Both_dead_and_alive" data-mw-thread-id="h-Both_dead_and_alive-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241104145400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Both_dead_and_alive-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241104145400"></span>Both dead and alive<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Both_dead_and_alive-Asharq_Al-Awsat_confirms_Deif's_death.-20241104145400"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400-Both_dead_and_alive"></span>So we now have a source, <i><a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a></i>, saying that Hamas has acknowledged Deif's death, with another source saying that they are still denying his death. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RSP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RSP">WP:RSP</a> does not have a listing for <i><a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a></i>, so I don't know if there are reliability issues with it. Assuming <i><a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a></i> has no reliability issues, I would say that Deif should continue to be listed as dead, with Hamas disputing the reports that it has internally acknowledged his death. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400-Both_dead_and_alive" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400-Both_dead_and_alive"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400-Both_dead_and_alive"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241115005300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"></span>I don't think one newspaper citing anonymous sources is strong enough to state definitively in wiki voice that he is dead. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a>, people are presumed to be living unless a reliable source has confirmed their death. The burden of proof lies with those making the assertions. This newspaper only mentions "sources close to Deif". Moreover, Hamas has explicitly denied these claims. So we're back to square one: the IDF (and now one newspaper) claim he is dead, and Hamas says he's not. In the absence of concrete evidence affirming otherwise, he should be presumed to be alive. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241115005300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241115005300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241115005300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800-Ïvana-20241115005300"></span>I don't think we are back to square one. It's one newspaper saying that Hamas is privately acknowledging that he's dead. To the best of my knowledge, the newspaper has not recanted its story. Unless we can impeach the credibility of the newspaper, then there really is no dispute that he is dead. Hamas accusing the newspaper of falsehood is not an impeachment of the credibility of the newspaper. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800-Ïvana-20241115005300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:58, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800-Ïvana-20241115005300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800-Ïvana-20241115005300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241115125300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800"></span>We have a newspaper asserting Hamas said something and Hamas explicitly deniying it. Why would the newspaper unverified claim have more weight that a statement coming from them? - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241115125300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:53, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241115125300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241115125300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115045800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300-Ïvana-20241115125300"></span>I'm not sure if you read the reference, but the reference is quite unequivocal. Here are some key sentences from the reference. <ol><li><i><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">new evidence points to the assassination of Mohammed Deif</q></i></li> <li><i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Samples were taken from the body, and it was later buried in Khan Younis. Tests on these samples reportedly confirmed the remains likely belonged to Deif</q></i></li> <li><i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">after prolonged silence and a complete communication cutoff, Qassam leaders are now convinced Deif was killed.</q></i></li></ol></dd> <dd>Unless you can impeach the credibility of <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a>, the article has to show him as dead with Hamas refusing to publicly acknowledge it. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300-Ïvana-20241115125300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:23, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300-Ïvana-20241115125300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300-Ïvana-20241115125300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241115233600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300"></span>I did read the piece. It boils down to the newspaper making unverified claims based on anonymous sources. The newspaper itself doesn't definitively confirm that he is dead; it only suggests that he likely is, citing al-Qassam, a confirmation that they explicitly denied making. This directly contradicts the claims made in the article. I don't think that's strong enough for a BLP and for us to say that he is dead as a matter of fact. The truth is that we don't know, and while his status is unconfirmed he should be presumed to be alive. That's how BLPs operate. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241115233600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:36, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241115233600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241115233600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241115152300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200-Ïvana-20241115233600"></span>We do know that he is dead. There's a body, and the body has been confirmed to belong to Deif. That's really all that's required to confirm a death. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200-Ïvana-20241115233600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:22, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200-Ïvana-20241115233600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200-Ïvana-20241115233600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241116060300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200"></span>The article relies entirely on testimony Hamas has explicitly denied making, meaning the assertions in it are completely unreliable. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241116060300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241116060300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241116060300-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700-Ïvana-20241116060300"></span>You may be a little confused. The article relies on testimony by knowledgeable elements inside Hamas. It is the Hamas information ministry that is making the denials for public relations purposes.</dd> <dd>The Hamas information ministry does not invalidate the reliability of the source. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700-Ïvana-20241116060300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700-Ïvana-20241116060300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700-Ïvana-20241116060300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241117062400-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700"></span>That is not mentioned at all in any of the articles linked above so it sounds like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a>. al-Awsat says <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas sources have indicated that new evidence points to the assassination of Mohammed Deif</q> and later that those sources are <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">close to Deif</q>. Nothing more than that. And the Star says <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas has dismissed a report by the London-based Asharq al-Awsat newspaper</q> and <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas said in a statement on Saturday (Nov 2) that the report is untrue and called on all media outlets to act accurately and professionally. The reaction came after Asharq al-Awsat, citing Hamas sources, alleged that the movement had confirmed Deif lost his life</q>. So my point remains valid. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241117062400-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:24, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241117062400-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241117062400-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116183700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700-Ïvana-20241117062400"></span>Official Hamas statements are put out by the Hamas Information ministry. Sounds like you are doing some <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a> of your own when you say that Hamas is contradicting itself. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700-Ïvana-20241117062400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:37, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700-Ïvana-20241117062400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700-Ïvana-20241117062400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241117064700-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700"></span>I'm quoting directly from the articles. Both mention <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas sources</q> without much detail. There's no evidence of contradiction; al-Awsat says Hamas confirmed one thing, and then Hamas officially denied it. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241117064700-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:47, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241117064700-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241117064700-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117063700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300-Ïvana-20241117064700"></span>We are in agreement. Hamas is internally acknowledging that Deif is dead, but publicly denying it. Both are listed in the article.</dd> <dd>Since <i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">samples reportedly confirmed the remains likely belonged to Deif</q></i>, there is no more presumption that he is alive, which is why the article shows him as dead and notes that Hamas is officially disputing it. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300-Ïvana-20241117064700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:53, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300-Ïvana-20241117064700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300-Ïvana-20241117064700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241117173600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300"></span>I feel like I'm talking in circles. Both articles only mention <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Hamas sources</q>. The entire report from al-Awsat relies on testimony provided by these sources, testimony that Hamas has stated it did not give. What's confusing about that? You're assuming that the parties providing the testimony and denying it are different, but that distinction doesn't come from any of the articles. They only refer to Hamas. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241117173600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241117173600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241117173600-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117155300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500-Ïvana-20241117173600"></span>Perhaps this will clear things up for you. The reference saying that Hamas is denying the report in <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> relies on an official statement from Hamas. The report in <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> does not claim that it came from an official statement from Hamas. It cites sources within Hamas.</dd> <dd>It is therefore a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a> on your part to presume that the sources in <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> are the same as the ones who composed the official statement from Hamas. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500-Ïvana-20241117173600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500-Ïvana-20241117173600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500-Ïvana-20241117173600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241118030500-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500"></span>Obviously if the report from al-Awsat was based on an official statement from Hamas we wouldn't be having this discussion. Hamas didn't make two contradicting statements. The newspaper claims Hamas said one thing, and Hamas put out one statement denying it. There's nothing SYNTHy about that interpretation. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241118030500-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:05, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241118030500-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241118030500-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241117174500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900-Ïvana-20241118030500"></span>You're still missing the point.</dd> <dd><i><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">The newspaper claims Hamas said one thing</q>.</i></dd> <dd>No, <a href="/wiki/Asharq_Al-Awsat" title="Asharq Al-Awsat">Asharq Al-Awsat</a> did not attribute anything to Hamas. The newspaper attributed their findings to sources within Hamas. There is a big difference between official statements that come from Hamas, and statements made by individual operatives. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900-Ïvana-20241118030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900-Ïvana-20241118030500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900-Ïvana-20241118030500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241119042000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900"></span>This is clearly going nowhere. I linked this discussion in the BLP noticeboard (and pinged you there) to see if any uninvolved editor with experience in BLPs feels like giving their two cents. Hope that's ok. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241119042000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241119042000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241119042000-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241118030900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vice_regent-20241115210900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> if you want to see an example, go to <a href="/wiki/Massoud_Rajavi" title="Massoud Rajavi">Massoud Rajavi</a>, someone who has been both death and alive for two decades.<b><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vice_regent" title="User talk:Vice regent">VR</a></b> <sub>(Please <a href="/wiki/Template:Ping" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ping">ping</a> on reply)</sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Vice_regent-20241115210900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vice_regent-20241115210900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vice_regent-20241115210900-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241104145400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300-Vice_regent-20241115210900"></span>A person who has disappeared is not the same as this case in which a person has been confirmed to be dead, but there is a group that continues to deny the death. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User:The Mountain of Eden">The Mountain of Eden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mountain_of_Eden" title="User talk:The Mountain of Eden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300-Vice_regent-20241115210900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:23, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300-Vice_regent-20241115210900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mountain_of_Eden-20241116042300-Vice_regent-20241115210900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link-20241114124600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link-20241114124600"></span>Bizarre English and incorrect article link<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link-20241114124600"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ieditthethings-20241114124600-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link"></span>Pseudonym is a common enough word in English lexicon that it should be used over the French presented here. Additionally "US banknotes" were only a thing until the early 20th century. He was holding US dollars. The linked wiki article makes this seem like he got a hold of unusable currency. The dollar facing the camera contains the large head enhancement from the early 21st century. </p><p><br/> This feels like it was created by someone using a poor translator. Happy to help edit but it's protected. If there's a way to submit a draft, please let me know. I'm new to protected articles but this was too egregious. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ieditthethings&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ieditthethings (page does not exist)">Ieditthethings</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ieditthethings" title="User talk:Ieditthethings">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ieditthethings-20241114124600-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ieditthethings-20241114124600-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ieditthethings-20241114124600-Bizarre_English_and_incorrect_article_link"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ïvana-20241115000900-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ieditthethings&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ieditthethings (page does not exist)">Ieditthethings</a>:</span> I changed banknotes to dollars as you suggested, but kept "nom de guerre" because it specifically denotes an alias adopted for use in militant activities, so it seems more appropiate. The word is wikilinked anyways so any doubt can be cleared up by reading the linked article. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Mohammed_Deif#c-Ïvana-20241115000900-Ieditthethings-20241114124600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:09, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ïvana-20241115000900-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ïvana-20241115000900-Ieditthethings-20241114124600"></span></dd></dl></div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" 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