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class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_20"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>January 20</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_20-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 20 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_20-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorni_di_Venezia,_accompagnate_da_21_tavole_litografiche_del_Conte_Nicolò_Contarin" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorni_di_Venezia,_accompagnate_da_21_tavole_litografiche_del_Conte_Nicolò_Contarin"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.1</span> <span>Trattato delle attinie, ed osservazioni sopra alcune di esse viventi nei contorni di Venezia, accompagnate da 21 tavole litografiche del Conte Nicolò Contarin</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorni_di_Venezia,_accompagnate_da_21_tavole_litografiche_del_Conte_Nicolò_Contarin-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Pu_Yi" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Pu_Yi"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.2</span> <span>Pu Yi</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Pu_Yi-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_21" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_21"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>January 21</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_21-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 21 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_21-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-text_of_executive_order" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#text_of_executive_order"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.1</span> <span>text of executive order</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-text_of_executive_order-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2</span> <span>Deadline for ratification of amendments to the US constitution</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">14 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_22" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_22"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>January 22</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_22-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 22 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_22-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Sir_John_Simon's_soul" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sir_John_Simon's_soul"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1</span> <span>Sir John Simon's soul</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">17 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Sir_John_Simon's_soul-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_23" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_23"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>January 23</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_23-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 23 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_23-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Marco_Guidetti" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Marco_Guidetti"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.1</span> <span>Marco Guidetti</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Marco_Guidetti-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.2</span> <span>Australian Antarctic Territory population</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Explain_meme?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Explain_meme?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5.3</span> <span>Explain meme?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Explain_meme?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_24" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_24"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>January 24</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_24-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 24 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_24-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6.1</span> <span>In which place, first-cousin-once-removed marriage is not allowed?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_25" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_25"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>January 25</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_25-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 25 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_25-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.1</span> <span>Proclamation of the People's Republic of China</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">9 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Thrax_in_Rome?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Thrax_in_Rome?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.2</span> <span>Thrax in Rome?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">8 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Thrax_in_Rome?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_26" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_26"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>January 26</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_26-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 26 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_26-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Liam,_Elie_Wiesel"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8.1</span> <span>Liam, Elie Wiesel</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_27" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_27"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>January 27</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_27-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 27 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_27-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Contacting_Jimmy_Wales"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9.1</span> <span>Contacting Jimmy Wales</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Juntas_in_North_Africa" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Juntas_in_North_Africa"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9.2</span> <span>Juntas in North Africa</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Juntas_in_North_Africa-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Do_you_know_these_men?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Do_you_know_these_men?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9.3</span> <span>Do you know these men?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Do_you_know_these_men?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_28" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_28"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>January 28</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_28-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 28 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_28-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Clarence_O._Sherrill" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Clarence_O._Sherrill"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.1</span> <span>Clarence O. Sherrill</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Clarence_O._Sherrill-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Orwell_quotations" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Orwell_quotations"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.2</span> <span>Orwell quotations</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Orwell_quotations-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_island_west_of_Kure?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_island_west_of_Kure?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.3</span> <span>What is the origin of the name Curé and Ouro for Kure Atoll? Was there an island west of Kure?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_island_west_of_Kure?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Progum_and_Kent" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Progum_and_Kent"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10.4</span> <span>Progum and Kent</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Progum_and_Kent-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_29" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_29"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>January 29</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_29-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 29 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_29-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Name_of_the_phenomena" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Name_of_the_phenomena"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11.1</span> <span>Name of the phenomena</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Name_of_the_phenomena-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_30" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_30"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>January 30</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_30-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 30 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_30-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12.1</span> <span>Rennie Garden 1862 Act of Parliament</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-January_31" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#January_31"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>January 31</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-January_31-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle January 31 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-January_31-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13.1</span> <span>Prime ministers of Elizabeth II</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13.2</span> <span>If Kure Atoll were to be renamed, what is the best choice?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Glastonbury_Walnut" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Glastonbury_Walnut"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13.3</span> <span>The Glastonbury Walnut</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-The_Glastonbury_Walnut-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-February_1" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#February_1"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>February 1</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-February_1-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle February 1 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-February_1-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Outback_SA_bus_routes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Outback_SA_bus_routes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14.1</span> <span>Outback SA bus routes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Outback_SA_bus_routes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-February_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#February_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>February 2</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-February_2-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle February 2 subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-February_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15.1</span> <span>How can Trump impose tariff on Canada when it is part of NAFTA</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" 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Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.</li></ul> </div> <div class="rd-header">See also:</div> <ul class="rd-box"> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">Help desk</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">Village pump</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Help:Contents">Help manual</a></li> </ul> </div> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_19" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_19-20250119014100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_19-20250119014100"></span>January 19<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_19-20250119014100"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: January 19"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Federal_death_penalty" data-mw-thread-id="h-Federal_death_penalty-January_19-20250119014100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Federal_death_penalty-January_19-20250119014100"></span>Federal death penalty<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Federal_death_penalty-January_19-20250119014100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Federal death penalty"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wizzito-20250119014100-Federal_death_penalty"></span>Is there a list of federal criminal cases where the federal government sought the death penalty but the jury sentenced the defendant to life in prison instead? I know <a href="/wiki/Sayfullo_Saipov" class="mw-redirect" title="Sayfullo Saipov">Sayfullo Saipov</a>'s case is one, but I'm unsure of any others. <a href="/wiki/User:Wizzito" title="User:Wizzito"><span class="tmpl-colored-link" style="color: hotpink; text-decoration: inherit;">wizzito</span></a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wizzito" title="User talk:Wizzito"><span class="tmpl-colored-link" style="color: navyc; text-decoration: inherit;">say hello!</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Wizzito-20250119014100-Federal_death_penalty" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:41, 19 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wizzito-20250119014100-Federal_death_penalty"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wizzito-20250119014100-Federal_death_penalty"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump's_first_presidency" data-mw-thread-id="h-Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump's_first_presidency-January_19-20250119105100"><span id="Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump.27s_first_presidency"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump's_first_presidency-January_19-20250119105100"></span>Official portraits of Donald Trump's first presidency<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump's_first_presidency-January_19-20250119105100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Official portraits of Donald Trump's first presidency"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KnightMove-20250119105100-Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump's_first_presidency"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1273380762/mw-parser-output/.tmulti">.mw-parser-output .tmulti .multiimageinner{display:flex;flex-direction:column}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .trow{display:flex;flex-direction:row;clear:left;flex-wrap:wrap;width:100%;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .tsingle{margin:1px;float:left}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .theader{clear:both;font-weight:bold;text-align:center;align-self:center;background-color:transparent;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .thumbcaption{background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .text-align-left{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .text-align-right{text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .text-align-center{text-align:center}@media all and (max-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmulti .thumbinner{width:100%!important;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:none!important;align-items:center}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .trow{justify-content:center}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .tsingle{float:none!important;max-width:100%!important;box-sizing:border-box;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .tsingle .thumbcaption{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .trow>.thumbcaption{text-align:center}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmulti .multiimageinner span:not(.skin-invert-image):not(.skin-invert):not(.bg-transparent) img{background-color:white}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmulti .multiimageinner span:not(.skin-invert-image):not(.skin-invert):not(.bg-transparent) img{background-color:white}}</style><div class="thumb tmulti tright"><div class="thumbinner multiimageinner" style="width:621px;max-width:621px"><div class="trow"><div class="tsingle" style="width:415px;max-width:415px"><div class="thumbimage"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:20170607-OSEC-PJK-0061_(34770550600).jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Yellow cartouche" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/20170607-OSEC-PJK-0061_%2834770550600%29.jpg/413px-20170607-OSEC-PJK-0061_%2834770550600%29.jpg" decoding="async" width="413" height="275" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/20170607-OSEC-PJK-0061_%2834770550600%29.jpg/620px-20170607-OSEC-PJK-0061_%2834770550600%29.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/20170607-OSEC-PJK-0061_%2834770550600%29.jpg/826px-20170607-OSEC-PJK-0061_%2834770550600%29.jpg 2x" data-file-width="4191" data-file-height="2794"/></a></span></div><div class="thumbcaption">*grim*</div></div><div class="tsingle" style="width:202px;max-width:202px"><div class="thumbimage"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Donald_Trump_official_portrait_(cropped).jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Official portrait?" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Donald_Trump_official_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg/200px-Donald_Trump_official_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg" decoding="async" width="200" height="276" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Donald_Trump_official_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg/300px-Donald_Trump_official_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Donald_Trump_official_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg/400px-Donald_Trump_official_portrait_%28cropped%29.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1520" data-file-height="2096"/></a></span></div><div class="thumbcaption">*grin*</div></div></div></div></div> <p>Commons category <i><a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump_(First_presidency)" class="extiw" title="commons:Category:Official portraits of Donald Trump (First presidency)">Official portraits of Donald Trump (First presidency)</a></i> only contains variations of the portrait with Donald Trump smiling. But <i><a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Photographs_of_the_official_portrait_of_Donald_Trump" class="extiw" title="commons:Category:Photographs of the official portrait of Donald Trump">Photographs of the official portrait of Donald Trump</a></i> only contains photos incorporating Trump's official portrait with a vigorous facial expression, which is otherwise not even included in Commons?! This seems inconsistent - what is the background and status of either photo? --<a href="/wiki/User:KnightMove" title="User:KnightMove">KnightMove</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KnightMove" title="User talk:KnightMove">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-KnightMove-20250119105100-Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump's_first_presidency" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:51, 19 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KnightMove-20250119105100-Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump's_first_presidency"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KnightMove-20250119105100-Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump's_first_presidency"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250120123100-KnightMove-20250119105100"></span>The framed portraits hanging on the wall in these photos are an official portrait from December 15, 2016, of the then president-elect.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.loc.gov/resource/ppbd.00607/">[1]</a></sup> The one with bared teeth is from October 6, 2017, when Trump was in office.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.loc.gov/item/2017656484/">[2]</a></sup> For two more recent official mug shots, look <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/us/politics/trump-inauguration-photo.html">here</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250120123100-KnightMove-20250119105100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:31, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250120123100-KnightMove-20250119105100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250120123100-KnightMove-20250119105100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KnightMove-20250120160000-Lambiam-20250120123100"></span>Ok, thank you. Do you know why the president-elect photo is not even uploaded in Commons? Shouldn't it be included in <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump_(First_presidency)" class="extiw" title="commons:Category:Official portraits of Donald Trump (First presidency)">commons:Category:Official portraits of Donald Trump (First presidency)</a>? --<a href="/wiki/User:KnightMove" title="User:KnightMove">KnightMove</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KnightMove" title="User talk:KnightMove">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-KnightMove-20250120160000-Lambiam-20250120123100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:00, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KnightMove-20250120160000-Lambiam-20250120123100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KnightMove-20250120160000-Lambiam-20250120123100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250120225600-KnightMove-20250120160000"></span>The most plausible reason that it was not uploaded is that no one missed it. Among those aware of its existence and having the wherewithal to find it on the Web and to upload it to the Commons, no one may have realized it had not already been uploaded. Or they may not have felt a need; there is no shortage of images in the relevant articles.</dd> <dd>Strictly speaking, it does not belong in <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump_(First_presidency)" class="extiw" title="commons:Category:Official portraits of Donald Trump (First presidency)">Category:Official portraits of Donald Trump (first presidency)</a>, as Trump was not yet president. However, <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Official_portraits_of_Donald_Trump_(second_presidency)" class="extiw" title="commons:Category:Official portraits of Donald Trump (second presidency)">Category:Official portraits of Donald Trump (second presidency)</a> features nothing but lugubrious portraits of the president-reelect. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250120225600-KnightMove-20250120160000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:56, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250120225600-KnightMove-20250120160000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250120225600-KnightMove-20250120160000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_20" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_20-20250120001100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_20-20250120001100"></span>January 20<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_20-20250120001100"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: January 20"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorni_di_Venezia,_accompagnate_da_21_tavole_litografiche_del_Conte_Nicolò_Contarin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorn-January_20-20250120001100"><span id="Trattato_delle_attinie.2C_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorni_di_Venezia.2C_accompagnate_da_21_tavole_litografiche_del_Conte_Nicol.C3.B2_Contarin"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorn-January_20-20250120001100"></span>Trattato delle attinie, ed osservazioni sopra alcune di esse viventi nei contorni di Venezia, accompagnate da 21 tavole litografiche del Conte Nicolò Contarin<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorn-January_20-20250120001100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Trattato delle attinie, ed osservazioni sopra alcune di esse viventi nei contorni di Venezia, accompagnate da 21 tavole litografiche del Conte Nicolò Contarin"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorn"></span>I am trying to find the illustration’s description from the original source: <i>Trattato delle attinie, ed osservazioni sopra alcune di esse viventi nei contorni di Venezia, accompagnate da 21 tavole litografiche del Conte Nicolò Contarin</i> including species name and description for these sea anemones: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.arsvalue.com/it/lotti/541811/contarini-nicolo-bertolucci-1780-1849-trattato-delle-attinie-ed-osservazio">https://www.arsvalue.com/it/lotti/541811/contarini-nicolo-bertolucci-1780-1849-trattato-delle-attinie-ed-osservazio</a> . I requested it on the resource request page but was not able to find where in the source these illustrations are or where their descriptions are. It doesn’t help that I can’t read Italian. <a href="/wiki/User:KAVEBEAR" title="User:KAVEBEAR">KAVEBEAR</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KAVEBEAR" title="User talk:KAVEBEAR">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorn" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorn"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100-Trattato_delle_attinie,_ed_osservazioni_sopra_alcune_di_esse_viventi_nei_contorn"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Askedonty-20250120120400-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100"></span>Apparently you need to locate an occurrence of "(T<small><small>AV</small></small> VII)" or "(T<small><small>AV</small></small> XII)" in the text. --<a href="/wiki/User:Askedonty" title="User:Askedonty">Askedonty</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Askedonty" title="User talk:Askedonty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Askedonty-20250120120400-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:04, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Askedonty-20250120120400-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Askedonty-20250120120400-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100"></span></dd> <dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250120121700-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100"></span>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)</small> References to the illustration are in the form "<span class="serif-fonts" style="font-family: 'Georgia Pro', Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', Times, 'Times New Roman', FreeSerif, 'DejaVu Math TeX', 'URW Bookman L', serif;">tavolo VII</span>" or "<span class="serif-fonts" style="font-family: 'Georgia Pro', Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', Times, 'Times New Roman', FreeSerif, 'DejaVu Math TeX', 'URW Bookman L', serif;">tav. VII</span>". So, for example, page 99 refers to <span class="serif-fonts" style="font-family: 'Georgia Pro', Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', Times, 'Times New Roman', FreeSerif, 'DejaVu Math TeX', 'URW Bookman L', serif;">fig. 1 e 2</span>. The text refers to the development of the actinae being studied without precise identification, specifically to their sprouting new tentacles, not being (<i>contra</i> <a href="/wiki/Spix" class="mw-redirect" title="Spix">Spix</a>) a prolongation of the skin of the base, but from parts of the body. The same page has a reference to <span class="serif-fonts" style="font-family: 'Georgia Pro', Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', Times, 'Times New Roman', FreeSerif, 'DejaVu Math TeX', 'URW Bookman L', serif;">fig. 3</span>. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250120121700-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:17, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250120121700-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250120121700-KAVEBEAR-20250120001100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KAVEBEAR-20250120204700-Lambiam-20250120121700"></span>Sorry where are you seeing this page 99 you are referring to? <a href="/wiki/User:KAVEBEAR" title="User:KAVEBEAR">KAVEBEAR</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KAVEBEAR" title="User talk:KAVEBEAR">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-KAVEBEAR-20250120204700-Lambiam-20250120121700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:47, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KAVEBEAR-20250120204700-Lambiam-20250120121700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KAVEBEAR-20250120204700-Lambiam-20250120121700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250120224200-KAVEBEAR-20250120204700"></span>Oops, I forgot to link. It is <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/trattatodelleat00antogoog/page/n126/mode/1up">here</a> (and also <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=4QdfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA99&dq=%22tav.+VII%22&hl=en">here</a>). --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250120224200-KAVEBEAR-20250120204700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:42, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250120224200-KAVEBEAR-20250120204700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250120224200-KAVEBEAR-20250120204700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Pu_Yi" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pu_Yi-January_20-20250120172600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Pu_Yi-January_20-20250120172600"></span>Pu Yi<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Pu_Yi-January_20-20250120172600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Pu Yi"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-193.207.179.151-20250120172600-Pu_Yi"></span>Although member of the Chinese Communist Party, the last Emperor was an anti-communist and counter-revolutionnair until his death? <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/193.207.179.151" title="Special:Contributions/193.207.179.151">193.207.179.151</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:193.207.179.151&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:193.207.179.151 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) 17:26, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</small></s><small>Block evasion. <a href="/wiki/User:Dekimasu" title="User:Dekimasu">Dekimasu</a><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dekimasu" title="User talk:Dekimasu">よ!</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-193.207.179.151-20250120172600-Pu_Yi" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-193.207.179.151-20250120172600-Pu_Yi"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-193.207.179.151-20250120172600-Pu_Yi"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20250120173100-193.207.179.151-20250120172600"></span>I imagine that during the <a href="/wiki/Cultural_Revolution" title="Cultural Revolution">Cultural Revolution</a>, it was wise to keep one's opinions to one's self. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Alansplodge-20250120173100-193.207.179.151-20250120172600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:31, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20250120173100-193.207.179.151-20250120172600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20250120173100-193.207.179.151-20250120172600"></span> <dl><dd><span style="font-size:85%;"><a href="/wiki/Jiang_Qing" title="Jiang Qing"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250120223200-Alansplodge-20250120173100"></span>Jiang Qing</a> did apparently not get the memo. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250120223200-Alansplodge-20250120173100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:32, 20 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250120223200-Alansplodge-20250120173100"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250120223200-Alansplodge-20250120173100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Situational_strength" title="Situational strength"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stanleykswong-20250121093800-Alansplodge-20250120173100"></span>Situational strength</a> can give psychological pressure on the individual and affect his or her behaviours. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Stanleykswong&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Stanleykswong (page does not exist)">Stanleykswong</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Stanleykswong" title="User talk:Stanleykswong">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Stanleykswong-20250121093800-Alansplodge-20250120173100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:38, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stanleykswong-20250121093800-Alansplodge-20250120173100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stanleykswong-20250121093800-Alansplodge-20250120173100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_21" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_21-20250121022200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_21-20250121022200"></span>January 21<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_21-20250121022200"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: January 21"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="text_of_executive_order" data-mw-thread-id="h-text_of_executive_order-January_21-20250121022200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-text_of_executive_order-January_21-20250121022200"></span>text of executive order<span data-mw-comment-end="h-text_of_executive_order-January_21-20250121022200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: text of executive order"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Epideurus-20250121022200-text_of_executive_order"></span>Hi. On 2025-01-20, POTUS signed an <a href="/wiki/Executive_order" title="Executive order">executive order</a> titled "Ending Birthright Citizenship for Children of Illegal Immigrants"<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2025/01/20/donald-trump-inauguration-day-news-updates-analysis/trump-immigration-00199261">[3]</a>. This event has been reported by virtually every major news outlet in the world. </p><p>It is now 2025-01-20 9PM Washington time, and I have been trying to find the exact text, or even portions of its text, for a while now, to no avail. </p><p>1. Is the full text of this executive order available to the general public? </p><p>This <a href="/wiki/Library_of_Congress" title="Library of Congress">Library of Congress</a> site<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://guides.loc.gov/executive-orders/publications">[4]</a> claims that: "All Executive Orders and Proclamations issued after March 1936 are required by law to be published in the Federal Register." </p><p>2. Assuming that the above claim is true, is there any requirement or guideline on how quickly an EO is published after it has been signed by POTUS? <a href="/wiki/User:Epideurus" title="User:Epideurus">Epideurus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Epideurus" title="User talk:Epideurus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Epideurus-20250121022200-text_of_executive_order" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:22, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Epideurus-20250121022200-text_of_executive_order"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Epideurus-20250121022200-text_of_executive_order"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Epideurus-20250121024900-Epideurus-20250121022200"></span>Nevermind. The full text was posted<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/protecting-the-meaning-and-value-of-american-citizenship/">[5]</a> some time around 2025-01-20 8:45PM Washington time. None of the news agencies reporting before that got the title right, so I'm guessing that the title of the EO was only released when its full text was released. <a href="/wiki/User:Epideurus" title="User:Epideurus">Epideurus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Epideurus" title="User talk:Epideurus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Epideurus-20250121024900-Epideurus-20250121022200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:49, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Epideurus-20250121024900-Epideurus-20250121022200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Epideurus-20250121024900-Epideurus-20250121022200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250122104600-Epideurus-20250121024900"></span>As I read the order literally, it implies that persons to which birthright citizenship is denied by force of Section 2 (a) of the order can also not be naturalized at a later date (or, if they can, no department or agency of the United States government shall issue documents recognizing the acquired citizenship). --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250122104600-Epideurus-20250121024900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:46, 22 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250122104600-Epideurus-20250121024900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250122104600-Epideurus-20250121024900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution" data-mw-thread-id="h-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution-January_21-20250121074200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution-January_21-20250121074200"></span>Deadline for ratification of amendments to the US constitution<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution-January_21-20250121074200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Deadline for ratification of amendments to the US constitution"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution"></span>Hello, and thank you for this opportunity to ask the experts. There's been talk recently about the proposed <a href="/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment" title="Equal Rights Amendment">Equal Rights Amendment</a> to the US constitution after former president Biden stated the he considered the amendment to be ratified and part of the US constitution, as it had been ratified by 38 states, reaching the bar of three quarters of the states the Article 5 of the US constitution sets. </p><p>The National Archives disagreed and pointed to a deadline (later extended) for ratification set by Congress; since the required number of states had not been reached by the final deadline and since the deadline had not been extended further, it said, the amendment could not be considered ratified. </p><p>This appears to be plainly at odds with the text of <a href="/wiki/Article_Five_of_the_United_States_Constitution" title="Article Five of the United States Constitution">Article Five of the United States Constitution</a>, which contains no mention of Congress being able to impose a deadline, or in fact any other requirement, for the ratification process. The best argument I've seen in non-scholarly sources is, in essence, that "the 5th Amendment is silent on this", but that strikes me as unconvincing. The 5th prescribes a process, and there is no reason (that is readily apparent to me) to presume that this process may be changed by Congress in either direction. Just like Congress may not declare that ratification by one half of the states (rather than three quarters) is sufficient, it may not impose that additional steps must be taken or additional hurdles passed: say, it may not require that four fifths of the states must ratify and that three quarters is not enough. The Constitution prescribes what conditions are necessary for an Amendment to become part of the Constitution — but it also dictates that when these conditions are met, this does happen. </p><p>As such I find the National Archives' position to be inconsistent with the Constitution and the 5th, and Congress's attempt to impose an additional requirement in the form of a deadline strikes me as out of line with the Constitution, rendering said additional requirement null and void. </p><p><i>That said,</i> and this is where my question comes in, I am not a legal expert. I haven't studied law, nor do I work in or with law in any way; I am merely curious. And although appeals to authority are fallacious as far as logical reasoning is concerned, I don't doubt that the National Archives (as well as, presumably, Congressional staff) have considered this matter and concluded that yes, a) the imposition of a deadline by Congress, above and beyond the process prescribed by the 5th, is constitutional; b) meeting of said deadline is then an additional condition for ratification; and c) since this deadline has not been met here, the ERA is not part of the Constitution. </p><p>And my question is: why? On what legal basis? Surely Congress cannot create additional requirements out of whole cloth; there must be some form of authorization in it. What's more, since we are talking about a process prescribed by the Constitution itself, said authority must itself be grounded in the Constitution, rather than taking the form of e.g. a simple law (Congress cannot arbitrarily empower itself to change the rules and processes laid down by the Constitution). </p><p>I would be very grateful if someone with a background in law (professional or otherwise) could explain this to me. Thank you very much! <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E" title="Special:Contributions/2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E">2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:42, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200"></span>I ain't no lawyer, but as I recall, the deadline was stated within the amendment proposal itself. That was the case with a few other amendments also, but they were ratified within the time limit, so there was no issue. It's possible someone will take this issue to court, and ultimately the Supreme Court would have to decide if that type of clause is valid. On the flip side, there is the most recent amendment, which prohibits Congress from giving itself a raise without an intervening election of Representatives. That one was in the wind for like 200 years, lacking a deadline. When it was finally ratified, it stood. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:31, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100"></span>Thank you very much for your reply, much appreciated! I didn't know the deadline was in the proposal itself. I'm not sure I'm convinced that this should make a difference, since for as long as the proposed Amendment is no part of the Constitution, it really is <i>not</i> part of the Constitution and should not be able to inform or affect other provisions of the Constitution. That said I of course agree that it would take the Supreme Court to decide the issue for good. Thanks again! <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782" title="Special:Contributions/2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782">2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:59, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM-20250121184400-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900"></span>The <a href="/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States" title="Supreme Court of the United States">SCOTUS</a> may be quite busy with executive orders for a while. Quite possible, that the <a href="/wiki/President_of_the_United_States" title="President of the United States">President</a> has to appoint another 6 or 12 judges to cope with all that work load. --<a href="/wiki/User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM" title="User:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM">Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM" title="User talk:Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM-20250121184400-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:44, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM-20250121184400-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM-20250121184400-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20250121215900-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900"></span>The courts in general views these things as <a href="/wiki/Political_question" title="Political question">political questions</a>. <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Abductive-20250121215900-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:59, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20250121215900-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20250121215900-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:C4C7:395C:56A3:A782-20250121165900"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Khajidha-20250122135100-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100"></span>The deadline for the ERA was mentioned in a resolving clause before the text of the amendment itself. In other cases, such as the <a href="/wiki/Eighteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution" title="Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution">Eighteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution</a>, the deadline was contained in the amendment itself. Whether this makes any practical difference is a question for the courts. --<a href="/wiki/User:Khajidha" title="User:Khajidha">User:Khajidha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Khajidha" title="User talk:Khajidha">talk</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Khajidha" title="Special:Contributions/Khajidha">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Khajidha-20250122135100-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:51, 22 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Khajidha-20250122135100-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Khajidha-20250122135100-Baseball_Bugs-20250121113100"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JackofOz-20250121210900-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200"></span>I don't understand why it is the National Archives rather than a legal/constitutional authority such as the Supreme Court that gets to decide whether a proposed amendment has become ratified or not, ie. become law or not. -- <a href="/wiki/User:JackofOz" title="User:JackofOz"><span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JackofOz#top" title="User talk:JackofOz"><span style="font-size:85%; font-family: Verdana;"><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-JackofOz-20250121210900-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JackofOz-20250121210900-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JackofOz-20250121210900-2003:D5:AF0E:DE00:95C4:DF2F:3B13:850E-20250121074200"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20250121215900-JackofOz-20250121210900"></span>There is the Executive, in this case the National Archives, doing what the Chief Executive ordered them to do. And there is Congress, which set the rules. This sounds like a <a href="/wiki/Political_question" title="Political question">political question</a>. <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Abductive-20250121215900-JackofOz-20250121210900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:59, 21 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20250121215900-JackofOz-20250121210900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20250121215900-JackofOz-20250121210900"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250122101500-JackofOz-20250121210900"></span>By a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/1/106b">statute</a> that took effect in 1984, the task of certifying ratifications of amendments to the US Constitution has been given to the <a href="/wiki/Archivist_of_the_United_States" title="Archivist of the United States">Archivist of the United States</a>, which is why the interpretation of the National Archives (that is, the Archivist) matters. One might argue that this statute is unconstitutional, as the Constitution does not include a provision requiring certification for ratification to take effect, unlike for other federal processes that depend on the outcomes from the several states. AFAIK the constitutionality of the statute, or any of its predecessors (like <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-65/pdf/STATUTE-65-Pg710.pdf">this one</a>) has never been challenged in court. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250122101500-JackofOz-20250121210900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:15, 22 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250122101500-JackofOz-20250121210900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250122101500-JackofOz-20250121210900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JackofOz-20250122112000-Lambiam-20250122101500"></span>I see. Thank you, Lambiam. -- <a href="/wiki/User:JackofOz" title="User:JackofOz"><span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JackofOz#top" title="User talk:JackofOz"><span style="font-size:85%; font-family: Verdana;"><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-JackofOz-20250122112000-Lambiam-20250122101500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:20, 22 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JackofOz-20250122112000-Lambiam-20250122101500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JackofOz-20250122112000-Lambiam-20250122101500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JackofOz-20250123063500-Lambiam-20250122101500"></span>But of course there must always be some form of official certification. That would be the case for any law passed to a state governor or the president for signing, just as it must be for a constitutional change. Otherwise, <i>anyone</i> could claim that a proposed constitutional amendment has been ratified by a sufficient number of states and must now become part of the law of the USA. Surely the system depends on not just <i>anyone</i> claiming this, but a properly constituted authority with the legal power/responsibility to make such a certification. -- <a href="/wiki/User:JackofOz" title="User:JackofOz"><span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JackofOz#top" title="User talk:JackofOz"><span style="font-size:85%; font-family: Verdana;"><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-JackofOz-20250123063500-Lambiam-20250122101500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:35, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JackofOz-20250123063500-Lambiam-20250122101500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JackofOz-20250123063500-Lambiam-20250122101500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250123163500-JackofOz-20250123063500"></span>Note that there was no certification procedure for the original <a href="/wiki/Ratification_of_the_United_States_Constitution" class="mw-redirect" title="Ratification of the United States Constitution">ratification of the United States Constitution</a>; actually, the amendment provision of the <a href="/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation" title="Articles of Confederation">Articles of Confederation</a>, which required unanimous approval of the states, was bypassed. I don't think there was already one in place for the <a href="/wiki/Bill_of_Rights" class="mw-disambig" title="Bill of Rights">Bill of Rights</a> either – when Congress met on on January 18, 1792, the President simply informed them that he had "a copy of an exemplified copy of an Act of the Legislature of Vermont, ratifying" the amendements,<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Washington/05-09-02-0278">[6]</a></sup> which implied a sufficient number of instruments of ratification had been received. The procedure for the ratification of the electoral votes in presidential elections was only specified in the <a href="/wiki/Twelfth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution" title="Twelfth Amendment to the United States Constitution">Twelfth Amendment</a>; the <a href="/wiki/1796_United_States_presidential_election" title="1796 United States presidential election">1796 United States presidential election</a> managed to do without. I agree, though, that there <i>ought</i> to be an official procedure for the ratification of constitutional amendments, but is the ability of Congress to inspect . The question is, is Congress passing (by simple majorities) a bill that such and such procedure shall be it, which is then signed into law by the President, enough to make it official and binding?</dd> <dd>The US Constitution does not define who is "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. At the moment this is a hot issue. If Congress passes a bill, next signed into law, declaring that the definition is made by <a href="/wiki/Executive_order" title="Executive order">executive order</a>, is the issue thereby settled? --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250123163500-JackofOz-20250123063500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:35, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250123163500-JackofOz-20250123063500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250123163500-JackofOz-20250123063500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250124000300-Lambiam-20250123163500"></span>It's not settled until the Supreme Court says it is. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Baseball_Bugs-20250124000300-Lambiam-20250123163500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250124000300-Lambiam-20250123163500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250124000300-Lambiam-20250123163500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DOR_(HK)-20250124010500-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution"></span>Here's the text: </p><p>"Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States relative to CH. J. Res. 208] equal rights for men and women. </p><p>Resolved by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled {two-thirds of each House concurring therein), That the following article is proposed as an amendment to the Constitution of the United States, which shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of the Constitution when ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several States within seven years from the date of its submission by the Congress:" <a href="/wiki/User:DOR_(HK)" title="User:DOR (HK)">DOR (ex-HK)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DOR_(HK)" title="User talk:DOR (HK)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DOR_(HK)-20250124010500-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:05, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DOR_(HK)-20250124010500-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DOR_(HK)-20250124010500-Deadline_for_ratification_of_amendments_to_the_US_constitution"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_22" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_22-20250122184900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_22-20250122184900"></span>January 22<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_22-20250122184900"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: January 22"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sir_John_Simon's_soul" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sir_John_Simon's_soul-January_22-20250122184900"><span id="Sir_John_Simon.27s_soul"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sir_John_Simon's_soul-January_22-20250122184900"></span>Sir John Simon's soul<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sir_John_Simon's_soul-January_22-20250122184900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Sir John Simon's soul"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250122184900-Sir_John_Simon's_soul"></span>"<a href="/wiki/Sir_John_Simon" class="mw-redirect" title="Sir John Simon">Simon</a> has sat on the fence so long that the iron has entered into his soul" is a quotation attributed to <a href="/wiki/David_Lloyd_George" title="David Lloyd George">David Lloyd George</a>. I have been unable to come up with a definitive source, and neither <a href="/wiki/Roy_Jenkins" title="Roy Jenkins">Roy Jenkins</a> (in <i>The Chancellors</i>), nor Duncan Brack (in <i>The Dictionary of Liberal Quotations</i>) have been able to either. Can the RefDeskers do better? Thank you. <small>I felt <i>sure</i> I'd asked this here before, but I cannot find any trace of it in the archives. </small> <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250122184900-Sir_John_Simon's_soul" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:49, 22 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250122184900-Sir_John_Simon's_soul"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250122184900-Sir_John_Simon's_soul"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250122203800-DuncanHill-20250122184900"></span>I looked into this question a while ago. The earliest evidence I could find came from a diary entry by <a href="/wiki/George_Riddell,_1st_Baron_Riddell" title="George Riddell, 1st Baron Riddell">Sir George Riddell</a> for 14th December 1912: <dl><dd>The other day <a href="/wiki/F._E._Smith,_1st_Earl_of_Birkenhead" title="F. E. Smith, 1st Earl of Birkenhead">F. E. Smith</a> told me a good story of a member who, when speaking in the House of Commons, remarked, "Mr. So-and-So has sat for so long on the fence that the iron has entered into his soul".</dd></dl></dd> <dd>It's <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=30YjAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA110#v=onepage&q&f=false">here</a>. Shame that no-one's named. --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250122203800-DuncanHill-20250122184900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:38, 22 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250122203800-DuncanHill-20250122184900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250122203800-DuncanHill-20250122184900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250122210300-DuncanHill-20250122184900"></span>Both parties were named by <a href="/wiki/Konni_Zilliacus" title="Konni Zilliacus">Konni Zilliacus</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=C84BAAAAMAAJ&q=%22famous+gibe+Sir+John+Simon%22">in 1935</a>. Google Books also claims to have it in a version naming Lloyd George and Simon in a 1931 number of the <i>New Statesman</i>, but I find their dating of "Snippet view" periodicals unreliable. --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250122210300-DuncanHill-20250122184900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 22 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250122210300-DuncanHill-20250122184900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250122210300-DuncanHill-20250122184900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250123013300-DuncanHill-20250122184900"></span>I found a 1922 case of "Who was it who said of a Free Church leader: "he has sat on the fence so long that the iron has entered into his soul"?". <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250123013300-DuncanHill-20250122184900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:33, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250123013300-DuncanHill-20250122184900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250123013300-DuncanHill-20250122184900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250123081100-DuncanHill-20250123013300"></span>Ha! The Spring 1905 number of <i>Forest Leaves</i> magazine (<a class="external text" href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Forest_leaves_%28IA_forestleaves12sana%29.pdf">here</a> at vol. II, no. 2, p. 16) gives us this: "<a href="/wiki/Winston_Churchill" title="Winston Churchill">Winston Churchill</a> said that Sir <a href="/wiki/Henry_Campbell-Bannerman" title="Henry Campbell-Bannerman">Henry Campbell-Bannerman</a> 'had sat so long on the fence that the iron had entered into his soul.'" A rare example, then, of <a href="/wiki/Churchillian_Drift" title="Churchillian Drift">Churchillian Drift</a> in reverse. --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250123081100-DuncanHill-20250123013300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:11, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250123081100-DuncanHill-20250123013300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250123081100-DuncanHill-20250123013300"></span></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22Churchill+at+a+meeting+of+the+Bow+and+Bromley+conservative+association+commended+certain+utterances+of+word+Rosebery+but+said+that+sir+Henry+Campbell+Bannerman+Quot+had+sat+so+Long+on+the+Fence+that+the+Iron+bad+entered+Irto+his%22"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250123100400-DuncanHill-20250123013300"></span>One more Google search</a> tells us that Churchill said this at a meeting of the Bow and Bromley Conservative Association in, apparently, April 1905. --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250123100400-DuncanHill-20250123013300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:04, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250123100400-DuncanHill-20250123013300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250123100400-DuncanHill-20250123013300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250123105800-Antiquary-20250123100400"></span>Oh well done! I'd always rather associated it with Manchuria. Lloyd George does have a certain gravitational pull for put-downs. I can't quite see him actually nicking one of Churchill's, and I think he would not want to associate himself, even indirectly, with such a negative comment about CB. I'm reminded by <a href="/wiki/Jeeves_and_the_Yule-tide_Spirit" title="Jeeves and the Yule-tide Spirit">Jeeves and the Yule-tide Spirit</a> that it is an echo of Psalm 105:18 in the Prayer Book. <small>If I were Lawrence Frances Flick I would be VERY careful about the choice of type-face for my bookmarks</small> <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250123105800-Antiquary-20250123100400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:58, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250123105800-Antiquary-20250123100400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250123105800-Antiquary-20250123100400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250123111600-Antiquary-20250123100400"></span>I found the <i>Forest Leaves</i> version (with a couple more from the column) in <i>The Mail</i> (Dublin) 4 January 1905. Interestingly, there was an article in lots of local papers in January 1905 which mention the iron entering Lloyd George's soul as a result of how power is abused in the hands of an ascendant Church. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250123111600-Antiquary-20250123100400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:16, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250123111600-Antiquary-20250123100400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250123111600-Antiquary-20250123100400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250123113100-DuncanHill-20250123111600"></span>Interesting. Got a link to the <i>Mail</i> version? --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250123113100-DuncanHill-20250123111600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:31, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250123113100-DuncanHill-20250123111600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250123113100-DuncanHill-20250123111600"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250123113500-Antiquary-20250123100400"></span>(ec) The <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001631/19070523/144/0005"><i>Belfast Telegraph</i> - Thursday 23 May 1907</a> says that Mr Churchill made the dig at CB "at Bow, February 19, 1902". Dublin <i>Mail</i> 4 Jan 1905 <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000433/19050104/078/0006">Column called "Mixed Metaphors"</a> <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250123113500-Antiquary-20250123100400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:35, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250123113500-Antiquary-20250123100400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250123113500-Antiquary-20250123100400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250123113500-Antiquary-20250123100400-1"></span>The "iron entered his/my/our soul(s)" trope seems very common at the time, usually of course in a more positive sense. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250123113500-Antiquary-20250123100400-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:35, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250123113500-Antiquary-20250123100400-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250123113500-Antiquary-20250123100400-1"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250123113900-DuncanHill-20250123113500"></span>And here is a report of Churchill addressing the Annual Meeting of the Bow and Bromley Conservative Association from the <i>Derby Daily Telegraph</i> Thursday 20 February 1902 <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0000327/19020220/002/0002">Mr. Winston Churchill and the War</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250123113900-DuncanHill-20250123113500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:39, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250123113900-DuncanHill-20250123113500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250123113900-DuncanHill-20250123113500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250123141400-DuncanHill-20250123113500"></span>The report appears in many local papers. The report in the <i><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0002947/19020220/072/0008">Westminster Gazette</a></i> says CB has NOT (my emphasis) sat so long on the fence that the iron has entered his soul. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <dl><dd>If you have access to a copy it might be worth taking a look at the eight-volume <i>Winston S. Churchill: His Complete Speeches, 1897-1963</i>, edited by Robert Rhodes James. --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250123141400-DuncanHill-20250123113500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:14, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250123141400-DuncanHill-20250123113500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250123141400-DuncanHill-20250123113500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250123181100-Antiquary-20250123141400"></span>Not in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/winstonschurchil0001unse_b7p6/page/n7/mode/2up">Volume I</a>, where it should be. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250123181100-Antiquary-20250123141400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250123181100-Antiquary-20250123141400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250123181100-Antiquary-20250123141400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250123145500-DuncanHill-20250123013300"></span>The anecdote is told in a Lloyd George–John Simon version on page 472 of <i><a href="/wiki/The_New_Statesman_and_Nation" class="mw-redirect" title="The New Statesman and Nation">The New Statesman and Nation</a></i> issue of October 17, 1931: <dl><dd><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">Sir John Simon's acidity of temperament and capacity for being a little in several camps but beloved by none led his late chief to remark—or so I'm told—that "Sir John has sat so long on the fence, that the iron has entered into his soul." <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r920966791">.mw-parser-output span.smallcaps{font-variant:small-caps}.mw-parser-output span.smallcaps-smaller{font-size:85%}</style><span class="smallcaps">Critic.</span></q><sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=iXGwhQPIEPkC&dq=%22sat%22+%22on+the+fence%22+%22that+the+iron+has+entered%22+%22his+soul%22&hl=en">[7]</a></sup></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=iXGwhQPIEPkC&dq=472+%22October+17,+1931%22+++++++%22positive+policy%22&hl=en">Here</a> one can verify, in spite of the snippetness of the permitted views, that this indeed the issue of this date. So it is indeed true that Lloyd George "is said" (or, more precisely, "has been said") to have commented this – although using a slightly different word order and punctuation than the quotation in our article. It is, of course, by no means sure that he <u>actually</u> has done so. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250123145500-DuncanHill-20250123013300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:55, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250123145500-DuncanHill-20250123013300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250123145500-DuncanHill-20250123013300"></span> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/sim_new-statesman_1931-10-17_2_34/page/472/mode/2up?view=theater"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250123180400-Lambiam-20250123145500"></span>Here</a> it is on Archive.org. It is Volume II Number 34, despite what Google claims. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250123180400-Lambiam-20250123145500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250123180400-Lambiam-20250123145500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250123180400-Lambiam-20250123145500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250123171300-Lambiam-20250123145500"></span>On the other hand, the Churchill/Campbell-Bannerman version was <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/47878842">still being quoted as "famous"</a> as late as 1950, so the two variants co-existed for many years. --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250123171300-Lambiam-20250123145500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:13, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250123171300-Lambiam-20250123145500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250123171300-Lambiam-20250123145500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_23" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_23-20250123104500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_23-20250123104500"></span>January 23<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_23-20250123104500"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: January 23"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Marco_Guidetti" data-mw-thread-id="h-Marco_Guidetti-January_23-20250123104500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Marco_Guidetti-January_23-20250123104500"></span>Marco Guidetti<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Marco_Guidetti-January_23-20250123104500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Marco Guidetti"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brandmeister-20250123104500-Marco_Guidetti"></span>Who was Marco Guidetti in relation to <a href="/wiki/De_Tomaso_Pantera" title="De Tomaso Pantera">De Tomaso Pantera</a>? <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://colectiedesurprize.wordpress.com/turbo/272-2/#jp-carousel-283">This</a> <a href="/wiki/Turbo_(chewing_gum)" title="Turbo (chewing gum)">Turbo</a> wrapper says "Marco Guidetti Pentera de Tomaso", but my search didn't yield any meaningful results for him, including books. My guess <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lamborghini-Marco-Guidetti/dp/2753206392">he could be this one</a>, but not sure. <a href="/wiki/User:Brandmeister" title="User:Brandmeister">Brandmeister</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brandmeister" title="User talk:Brandmeister">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Brandmeister-20250123104500-Marco_Guidetti" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:45, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brandmeister-20250123104500-Marco_Guidetti"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brandmeister-20250123104500-Marco_Guidetti"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250123152600-Brandmeister-20250123104500"></span>The creator(s) of these <a href="/wiki/Turbo_(chewing_gum)" title="Turbo (chewing gum)">Turbo</a> wrappers misspelled "Pantera", so they were not overly careful. Perhaps they misinterpreted the name of the author of the photograph as being the name of the car model. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250123152600-Brandmeister-20250123104500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:26, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250123152600-Brandmeister-20250123104500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250123152600-Brandmeister-20250123104500"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-94.8.29.20-20250123155700-Brandmeister-20250123104500"></span>One possibility is that the particular vehicle shown was owned by a Marco Guidetti, possibly the movie designer and art director of that name who worked on Mad Max and other films: IMDb link (unreliable source) <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3199631/">here</a>. Relatedly, he may instead have been involved in designing the model's styling. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.8.29.20" title="Special:Contributions/94.8.29.20">94.8.29.20</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:94.8.29.20&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:94.8.29.20 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-94.8.29.20-20250123155700-Brandmeister-20250123104500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:57, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-94.8.29.20-20250123155700-Brandmeister-20250123104500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-94.8.29.20-20250123155700-Brandmeister-20250123104500"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Modocc-20250123165900-Brandmeister-20250123104500"></span>A Marco Guidetti is credited to authoring and photographing <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://search.worldcat.org/search?q=au=%22Guidetti%2C%20Marco%22"><i>Valentino Rossi : campione</i></a> and a Marco Guidetti also authored <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/author/marco-guidetti"><i>JAGUAR</i> </a>. So it appears likely it is the name of the photographer as suggested by Lambiam when the gum was recently reintroduced, although this doesn't rule out the alternative possibilities that they are the car's owner or its designer as suggested by The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195. <a href="/wiki/User:Modocc" title="User:Modocc">Modocc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Modocc" title="User talk:Modocc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Modocc-20250123165900-Brandmeister-20250123104500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:59, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Modocc-20250123165900-Brandmeister-20250123104500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Modocc-20250123165900-Brandmeister-20250123104500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-94.8.29.20-20250123194200-Modocc-20250123165900"></span>We also haven't <i>yet</i> ruled out the author/photographer/car designer(?) and the film designer being the same person, although the car originated around 1970 and film guy's career seems to have started around 2003. Of course, 'Marco <a href="/wiki/Guidetti" title="Guidetti">Guidetti</a>' cannot be that uncommon a name in Italy. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.8.29.20" title="Special:Contributions/94.8.29.20">94.8.29.20</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:94.8.29.20&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:94.8.29.20 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-94.8.29.20-20250123194200-Modocc-20250123165900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:42, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-94.8.29.20-20250123194200-Modocc-20250123165900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-94.8.29.20-20250123194200-Modocc-20250123165900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Askedonty-20250124104000-Modocc-20250123165900"></span>Probable photo, and eulogy of author/photographer Marco Guidetti: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.gpone.com/en/2017/08/11/motogp/goodbye-marco-guidetti-the-photographer-who-was-a-friend-to-riders.html"><i>The photographer who was..</i></a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Askedonty" title="User:Askedonty">Askedonty</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Askedonty" title="User talk:Askedonty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Askedonty-20250124104000-Modocc-20250123165900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:40, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Askedonty-20250124104000-Modocc-20250123165900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Askedonty-20250124104000-Modocc-20250123165900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brandmeister-20250125110800-Askedonty-20250124104000"></span>Thanks, still something anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:Brandmeister" title="User:Brandmeister">Brandmeister</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brandmeister" title="User talk:Brandmeister">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Brandmeister-20250125110800-Askedonty-20250124104000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:08, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brandmeister-20250125110800-Askedonty-20250124104000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brandmeister-20250125110800-Askedonty-20250124104000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population" data-mw-thread-id="h-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population-January_23-20250123194600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population-January_23-20250123194600"></span>Australian Antarctic Territory population<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population-January_23-20250123194600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Australian Antarctic Territory population"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nyttend-20250123194600-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population"></span>What was the population of the <a href="/wiki/Australian_Antarctic_Territory" title="Australian Antarctic Territory">Australian Antarctic Territory</a> in the <a href="/wiki/2021_Australian_census" title="2021 Australian census">2021 Australian census</a>? I assumed this would easily be discoverable with a Google search, but I couldn't find this information from the <a href="/wiki/Australian_Bureau_of_Statistics" title="Australian Bureau of Statistics">ABS</a>. Since the census counts people where they are on census night (and not where they live permanently), since <a href="/wiki/Davis_Station" title="Davis Station">Davis Station</a> is inhabited year-round, and since the AAT is considered an external territory of Australia, the AAT should have been covered by the census (comparable to Christmas Island, the Cocos, etc) and should have had a non-zero population on census night. <a href="/wiki/User:Nyttend" title="User:Nyttend">Nyttend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nyttend" title="User talk:Nyttend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Nyttend-20250123194600-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nyttend-20250123194600-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nyttend-20250123194600-Australian_Antarctic_Territory_population"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Modocc-20250123203500-Nyttend-20250123194600"></span>The external territories are listed here: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.abs.gov.au/census/guide-census-data/geography/census-geography-glossary">[8]</a>. Quoting our article "Australia is an original signatory to the Antarctic Treaty of 1959. Under section 4, all territorial claims are held in abeyance." Which would appear to explain why it's not listed. <a href="/wiki/User:Modocc" title="User:Modocc">Modocc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Modocc" title="User talk:Modocc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Modocc-20250123203500-Nyttend-20250123194600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:35, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Modocc-20250123203500-Nyttend-20250123194600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Modocc-20250123203500-Nyttend-20250123194600"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JackofOz-20250123204500-Nyttend-20250123194600"></span>"Expeditioners to Australian bases in the Australian Antarctic Territory (and other locations) are included in the Census. Their 'place of enumeration' is an Offshore Statistical Area Level 1 (SA1) in Tasmania." <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/1217.0.55.001">[9]</a> -- <a href="/wiki/User:JackofOz" title="User:JackofOz"><span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JackofOz#top" title="User talk:JackofOz"><span style="font-size:85%; font-family: Verdana;"><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-JackofOz-20250123204500-Nyttend-20250123194600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:45, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JackofOz-20250123204500-Nyttend-20250123194600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JackofOz-20250123204500-Nyttend-20250123194600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nyttend-20250124033800-JackofOz-20250123204500"></span>Hm, that's interesting. I wonder what it is? I went to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://maps.abs.gov.au">https://maps.abs.gov.au</a> (which gives you information on an SA1-level) and ran a search for "Antarctic", and there were two called "Antarctic Circle" and "New Antarctica", but they're in southeastern Brisbane and near the Sydney CBD :-\ <a href="/wiki/User:Nyttend" title="User:Nyttend">Nyttend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nyttend" title="User talk:Nyttend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Nyttend-20250124033800-JackofOz-20250123204500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:38, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nyttend-20250124033800-JackofOz-20250123204500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nyttend-20250124033800-JackofOz-20250123204500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C-20250124185200-Nyttend-20250124033800"></span>New Antarctica is a 2-story terraced suburban home at 19 Lodge Street, Forest Lodge, New South Wales <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-forest+lodge-110666073">[10]</a>. When I was there the word "terraced" was not used (although that might be a WA idiosyncracy). It would possibly have been described as a "duplex", although I could never get my head around the word. Antarctic Circle is on an industrial estate on Logan Road, Underhill, Brisbane. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C" title="Special:Contributions/2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C">2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C-20250124185200-Nyttend-20250124033800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:52, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C-20250124185200-Nyttend-20250124033800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2A02:C7C:F33B:4100:971:8BD8:F20F:648C-20250124185200-Nyttend-20250124033800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-60.240.98.211-20250131142500-Nyttend-20250124033800"></span>You can download mesh block level population data from the 2021 census from this page <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.abs.gov.au/census/guide-census-data/mesh-block-counts/2021">[11]</a>. Under table 6 (Tasmania), the MB Code of 65000000775 is used for "ANTARCTICA", where 7 dwellings and zero persons are enumerated. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/60.240.98.211" title="Special:Contributions/60.240.98.211">60.240.98.211</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:60.240.98.211&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:60.240.98.211 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-60.240.98.211-20250131142500-Nyttend-20250124033800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:25, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-60.240.98.211-20250131142500-Nyttend-20250124033800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-60.240.98.211-20250131142500-Nyttend-20250124033800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-60.240.98.211-20250131150200-60.240.98.211-20250131142500"></span>Accessing the data for the same MB code for the 2016 census gave 4 dwellings and zero persons, and in the 2011 census 3 dwellings and 26 persons. Comparison of the SA1 data against the MB data would suggest that the SA1 code for Antartica was 6979994 in 2011 (27 persons) and became 69797979994 in 2021 (still zero persons). <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/60.240.98.211" title="Special:Contributions/60.240.98.211">60.240.98.211</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:60.240.98.211&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:60.240.98.211 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-60.240.98.211-20250131150200-60.240.98.211-20250131142500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:02, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-60.240.98.211-20250131150200-60.240.98.211-20250131142500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-60.240.98.211-20250131150200-60.240.98.211-20250131142500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Explain_meme?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Explain_meme?-January_23-20250123232200"><span id="Explain_meme.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Explain_meme?-January_23-20250123232200"></span>Explain meme?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Explain_meme?-January_23-20250123232200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Explain meme?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/a57f113b-f7bd-4eb9-83fd-aed282c2bf4b.jpeg"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200-Explain_meme?"></span>[12]</a> I understand what the person is trying to imply about Elon Musk, but I don't understand what the second picture is getting at. Is that Prince Harry and is that relevant? I'm pretty clueless so be patient. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B" title="Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B">2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200-Explain_meme?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:22, 23 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200-Explain_meme?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200-Explain_meme?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zzuuzz-20250124001200-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200"></span>Chris Hemsworth. The second image is a reverse angle showing the listener's response, and the meme is all about a good example of a facial expression expressing doubt. Originally the response by the listener was "is he though?". See <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/daenerys-targaryen-squint">[13]</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Zzuuzz" title="User:Zzuuzz">zzuuzz</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzuuzz" title="User talk:Zzuuzz">(talk)</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Zzuuzz-20250124001200-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:12, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zzuuzz-20250124001200-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zzuuzz-20250124001200-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400-Zzuuzz-20250124001200"></span>Ah thanks, I'm not sure I wanted to know that the Mighty Thor looks like that now. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B" title="Special:Contributions/2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B">2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400-Zzuuzz-20250124001200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:14, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400-Zzuuzz-20250124001200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400-Zzuuzz-20250124001200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HiLo48-20250124095700-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400"></span>Maybe it's a bit cultural. I taught at the high school Chris Hemsworth attended, and picked that look instantly. <a href="/wiki/User:HiLo48" title="User:HiLo48">HiLo48</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HiLo48" title="User talk:HiLo48">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-HiLo48-20250124095700-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:57, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HiLo48-20250124095700-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HiLo48-20250124095700-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matt_Deres-20250124201500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400"></span>Looks like now? It's from a movie that came out in 2017... <a href="/wiki/User:Matt_Deres" title="User:Matt Deres">Matt Deres</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matt_Deres" title="User talk:Matt Deres">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Matt_Deres-20250124201500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matt_Deres-20250124201500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matt_Deres-20250124201500-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250124081400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-142.112.149.206-20250125032900-Matt_Deres-20250124201500"></span>As to the resemblance between Charlie Chaplin and another moustached man, see the 1940 movie <i><a href="/wiki/The_Great_Dictator" title="The Great Dictator">The Great Dictator</a></i> (for example, <a href="/wiki/File:Dictator_charlie2.jpg" title="File:Dictator charlie2.jpg">see this image</a>). --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/142.112.149.206" title="Special:Contributions/142.112.149.206">142.112.149.206</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:142.112.149.206" title="User talk:142.112.149.206">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-142.112.149.206-20250125032900-Matt_Deres-20250124201500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:29, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-142.112.149.206-20250125032900-Matt_Deres-20250124201500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-142.112.149.206-20250125032900-Matt_Deres-20250124201500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JackofOz-20250125214400-142.112.149.206-20250125032900"></span>Curiously, those two men were born only 4 days apart, in April 1889. -- <a href="/wiki/User:JackofOz" title="User:JackofOz"><span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JackofOz#top" title="User talk:JackofOz"><span style="font-size:85%; font-family: Verdana;"><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-JackofOz-20250125214400-142.112.149.206-20250125032900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:44, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JackofOz-20250125214400-142.112.149.206-20250125032900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JackofOz-20250125214400-142.112.149.206-20250125032900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Slowking_Man-20250129024400-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200"></span>For added context, it's a scene from <i><a href="/wiki/Thor:_Ragnarok" title="Thor: Ragnarok">Thor: Ragnarok</a></i>. <a href="/wiki/TvTropes" class="mw-redirect" title="TvTropes">TvTropes</a> link: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Memes/ThorRagnarok">[14]</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Slowking_Man" title="User:Slowking Man">Slowking Man</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Slowking_Man" title="User talk:Slowking Man">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Slowking_Man-20250129024400-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:44, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Slowking_Man-20250129024400-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Slowking_Man-20250129024400-2601:644:8581:75B0:0:0:0:512B-20250123232200"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_24" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_24-20250124062600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_24-20250124062600"></span>January 24<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_24-20250124062600"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: January 24"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?" data-mw-thread-id="h-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?-January_24-20250124062600"><span id="In_which_place.2C_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?-January_24-20250124062600"></span>In which place, first-cousin-once-removed marriage is not allowed?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?-January_24-20250124062600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: In which place, first-cousin-once-removed marriage is not allowed?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-220.132.216.52-20250124062600-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?"></span>In which place, first-cousin-once-removed marriage is not allowed? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/220.132.216.52" title="Special:Contributions/220.132.216.52">220.132.216.52</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:220.132.216.52" title="User talk:220.132.216.52">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-220.132.216.52-20250124062600-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:26, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-220.132.216.52-20250124062600-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-220.132.216.52-20250124062600-In_which_place,_first-cousin-once-removed_marriage_is_not_allowed?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shantavira-20250124093700-220.132.216.52-20250124062600"></span>Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Cousin_marriage" title="Cousin marriage">cousin marriage</a> article will answer your question. <a href="/wiki/User:Shantavira" title="User:Shantavira">Shantavira</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shantavira" title="User talk:Shantavira"><sup>feed me</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Shantavira-20250124093700-220.132.216.52-20250124062600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:37, 24 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shantavira-20250124093700-220.132.216.52-20250124062600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shantavira-20250124093700-220.132.216.52-20250124062600"></span></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_25" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_25-20250125000500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_25-20250125000500"></span>January 25<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_25-20250125000500"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: January 25"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China-January_25-20250125000500"><span id="Proclamation_of_the_People.27s_Republic_of_China"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China-January_25-20250125000500"></span>Proclamation of the People's Republic of China<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China-January_25-20250125000500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Proclamation of the People's Republic of China"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China"></span>Can anyone show me the name of all people in the image please? Except Mao Zedong <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Mao_Proclaiming_New_China.JPG" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Mao_Proclaiming_New_China.JPG/500px-Mao_Proclaiming_New_China.JPG" decoding="async" width="500" height="367" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Mao_Proclaiming_New_China.JPG/750px-Mao_Proclaiming_New_China.JPG 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/85/Mao_Proclaiming_New_China.JPG 2x" data-file-width="771" data-file-height="566"/></a></span> <a href="/wiki/User:ThomasDracoLucitor" title="User:ThomasDracoLucitor">ThomasDracoLucitor</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:ThomasDracoLucitor&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:ThomasDracoLucitor (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500-Proclamation_of_the_People's_Republic_of_China"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125030600-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span>The first on the (radical) left could be <a href="/wiki/Liu_Shaoqi" title="Liu Shaoqi">Liu Shaoqi</a>, beside him is <a href="/wiki/Li_Lisan" title="Li Lisan">Li Lisan</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Lin_Boqu" title="Lin Boqu">Lin Boqu</a>'s article says he's the one standing behind Mao. <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Clarityfiend-20250125030600-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:06, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125030600-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20250125030600-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span> <dl><dd><span style="font-size:85%;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125031800-Clarityfiend-20250125030600"></span>And the guy to Mao's (reactionary) right just might be <a href="/wiki/Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail" title="Monty Python and the Holy Grail">Sir Not-Quite-Appearing-in-this-Picture</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Clarityfiend-20250125031800-Clarityfiend-20250125030600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:18, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20250125031800-Clarityfiend-20250125030600"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125031800-Clarityfiend-20250125030600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125032700-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span>The guy in back between Lin Boqu and the Great Steersman: <s><a href="/wiki/Ye_Jianying" title="Ye Jianying">Ye Jianying</a></s> <a href="/wiki/Lin_Biao" title="Lin Biao">Lin Biao</a> (from this <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaRV_AiWxao">YouTube video at the 51 second mark</a>)? The guy to his right: <a href="/wiki/Peng_Dehuai" title="Peng Dehuai">Peng Dehuai</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Clarityfiend-20250125032700-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125032700-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20250125032700-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span> <dl><dd><span style="font-size:85%;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125033000-Clarityfiend-20250125032700"></span>Also somewhere in this picture, <a href="/wiki/Where%27s_Wally%3F" title="Where's Wally?">Wa Li</a>, aka Wal Do. <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Clarityfiend-20250125033000-Clarityfiend-20250125032700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:30, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20250125033000-Clarityfiend-20250125032700"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125033000-Clarityfiend-20250125032700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125090100-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span>The bearded gent on the far right looks like <a href="/wiki/Shen_Junru" title="Shen Junru">Shen Junru</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Clarityfiend-20250125090100-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:01, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125090100-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20250125090100-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125091200-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span>The obscured guy behind the paper Mao is holding may be <a href="/wiki/Zhu_De" title="Zhu De">Zhu De</a>, looking at a photo shot from a different spot. <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Clarityfiend-20250125091200-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:12, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20250125091200-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20250125091200-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/The_Founding_Ceremony_of_the_Nation" title="The Founding Ceremony of the Nation"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250125104200-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span>The Founding Ceremony of the Nation</a> may be of interest. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250125104200-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:42, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250125104200-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250125104200-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://jenikirbyhistory.getarchive.net/topics/founding+ceremony+of+peoples+republic+of+china"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250125132900-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span>This page</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mungfali.com/post/7780E5BBEB8A2C98E70EF4D42FC1181661B132BB">this page</a> have several photos of the same event taken from different angles, affording clearer views of some of the attendees. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250125132900-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:29, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250125132900-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250125132900-ThomasDracoLucitor-20250125000500"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Thrax_in_Rome?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Thrax_in_Rome?-January_25-20250125201100"><span id="Thrax_in_Rome.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Thrax_in_Rome?-January_25-20250125201100"></span>Thrax in Rome?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Thrax_in_Rome?-January_25-20250125201100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Thrax in Rome?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amble-20250125201100-Thrax_in_Rome?"></span>According to our article <a href="/wiki/Maximinus_Thrax" title="Maximinus Thrax">Maximinus Thrax</a>, he never entered Rome during his imperial reign. Had he ever been to Rome before his accession? Or did he never set foot in Rome itself during his life? —<a href="/wiki/User:Amble" title="User:Amble">Amble</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amble" title="User talk:Amble">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Amble-20250125201100-Thrax_in_Rome?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amble-20250125201100-Thrax_in_Rome?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amble-20250125201100-Thrax_in_Rome?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amble-20250125233500-Amble-20250125201100"></span>Answering my own question: the Historia Augusta says that Maximinus went to Rome to present himself to Alexander Severus after the death of Elagabalus: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Historia_Augusta/Maximini_duo*.html">[15]</a>. —-<a href="/wiki/User:Amble" title="User:Amble">Amble</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amble" title="User talk:Amble">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Amble-20250125233500-Amble-20250125201100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:35, 25 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amble-20250125233500-Amble-20250125201100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amble-20250125233500-Amble-20250125201100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250126091900-Amble-20250125233500"></span>Though, as our article on Maximinus Thrax rightly says, the <i>Historia Augusta</i> is "notoriously unreliable". The translator of the Penguin Classics version left out the lives of Maximinus Thrax and of all other emperors after Elagabulus on the grounds that in that half of the <i>Historia</i> "<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=prWXxf_r0wMC&pg=PP8#v=onepage&q&f=false">fiction predominates</a>". The 3rd century is an ill-documented period of Roman history and I doubt if you'll find an answer to your question in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">reliable sources</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250126091900-Amble-20250125233500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:19, 26 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250126091900-Amble-20250125233500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250126091900-Amble-20250125233500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amble-20250127165300-Antiquary-20250126091900"></span>Thank you, understood that the available sources are unreliable. Given that, I’m satisfied with an <a href="/wiki/MOS:INUNIVERSE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:INUNIVERSE">in-universe</a> answer. —<a href="/wiki/User:Amble" title="User:Amble">Amble</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amble" title="User talk:Amble">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Amble-20250127165300-Antiquary-20250126091900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amble-20250127165300-Antiquary-20250126091900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amble-20250127165300-Antiquary-20250126091900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200-Amble-20250125201100"></span>Thrax was enlisted by <a href="/wiki/Septimius_Severus" title="Septimius Severus">Severus</a> as imperial bodyguard <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.everand.com/book/396762024/Maximinus-Thrax-From-Common-Soldier-to-Emperor-of-Rome">ref</a> So it was likely he saw Rome prior to his accession <a href="/wiki/User:TheAstorPastor" title="User:TheAstorPastor"><span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#8B0000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">The AP </span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheAstorPastor" title="User talk:TheAstorPastor"><span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#AA336A"><i>talk</i></span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200-Amble-20250125201100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:52, 26 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200-Amble-20250125201100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200-Amble-20250125201100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Antiquary-20250126115900-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200"></span>The site you've linked to tells me that that ebook is unavailable in my country. What's the author's source for the statement that MT was an imperial bodyguard to Severus? --<a href="/wiki/User:Antiquary" title="User:Antiquary">Antiquary</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiquary" title="User talk:Antiquary">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Antiquary-20250126115900-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:59, 26 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Antiquary-20250126115900-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Antiquary-20250126115900-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TheAstorPastor-20250126161700-Antiquary-20250126115900"></span>It's probably Historia Augusta, but I would need to check. <a href="/wiki/User:TheAstorPastor" title="User:TheAstorPastor"><span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#8B0000; text-shadow:gray 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">The AP </span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheAstorPastor" title="User talk:TheAstorPastor"><span style="font-family:Segoe print; color:#AA336A"><i>talk</i></span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-TheAstorPastor-20250126161700-Antiquary-20250126115900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:17, 26 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TheAstorPastor-20250126161700-Antiquary-20250126115900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TheAstorPastor-20250126161700-Antiquary-20250126115900"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amble-20250127165300-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200"></span>Thanks, yes, his service under <a href="/wiki/Septimius_Severus" title="Septimius Severus">Septimius Severus</a> seems to be while on campaign, and I don’t see it mentioned that Severus brought Thrax back to Rome. But he does put in an appearance at Rome later in the narrative, at least. It would be interesting if any of the <a href="/wiki/Barracks_emperor" title="Barracks emperor">barracks emperors</a> are not described as having been in Rome at any point. Although the available sources are unreliable, it would say something about how they were viewed in relation to the city itself. --<a href="/wiki/User:Amble" title="User:Amble">Amble</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amble" title="User talk:Amble">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Amble-20250127165300-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:53, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amble-20250127165300-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amble-20250127165300-TheAstorPastor-20250126105200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_26" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_26-20250126230900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_26-20250126230900"></span>January 26<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_26-20250126230900"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: January 26"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Liam,_Elie_Wiesel" data-mw-thread-id="h-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel-January_26-20250126230900"><span id="Liam.2C_Elie_Wiesel"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel-January_26-20250126230900"></span>Liam, Elie Wiesel<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel-January_26-20250126230900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Liam, Elie Wiesel"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mcljlm-20250126230900-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel"></span>According to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://hebrewnamer.com/names/liam/">https://hebrewnamer.com/names/liam/</a> "the name Liam was also the pseudonym of the famous Jewish author and Holocaust survivor, Elie Wiesel, when he first began writing". Is this mentioned elsewhere? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mcljlm&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mcljlm (page does not exist)">Mcljlm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mcljlm" title="User talk:Mcljlm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Mcljlm-20250126230900-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:09, 26 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mcljlm-20250126230900-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mcljlm-20250126230900-Liam,_Elie_Wiesel"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250128091900-Mcljlm-20250126230900"></span>I cannot find any source confirming this. Pseudonyms known to have been used by Wiesel are "Ben Shlomo", his first pseudonym,<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=HrCrDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA16&dq=%22Ben+Shlomo%22&hl=en">[16]</a></sup> and "Elisha Carmeli".<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=HrCrDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA21&dq=%22Elisha+Carmeli%22&hl=en">[17]</a></sup> --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250128091900-Mcljlm-20250126230900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:19, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250128091900-Mcljlm-20250126230900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250128091900-Mcljlm-20250126230900"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_27" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_27-20250127021100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_27-20250127021100"></span>January 27<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_27-20250127021100"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: January 27"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Contacting_Jimmy_Wales" data-mw-thread-id="h-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales-January_27-20250127021100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales-January_27-20250127021100"></span>Contacting Jimmy Wales<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales-January_27-20250127021100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Contacting Jimmy Wales"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-172.56.182.234-20250127021100-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256395271">.mw-parser-output .hidden-archive{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:0.2em auto 0;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .hat-header{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center;background-color:#f2dfce;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .hat-content{border:solid 1px silver;padding:8px;background-color:#fff4f2;color:inherit;text-align:left}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-header{background-color:#492b13}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .hat-content{background-color:#391c19}}</style> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">wp:deny </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p>What are all of the ways for one to contact Jimmy Wales? There's a specific e-mail address for him and I used it but so far I don't think that he has ever actually responded to my e-mail. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/172.56.182.234" title="Special:Contributions/172.56.182.234">172.56.182.234</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:172.56.182.234" title="User talk:172.56.182.234">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-172.56.182.234-20250127021100-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:11, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-172.56.182.234-20250127021100-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-172.56.182.234-20250127021100-Contacting_Jimmy_Wales"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AnonMoos-20250127050000-172.56.182.234-20250127021100"></span>There's no guarantee whatsoever he'll reply, but one place to leave a public message is <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Unprotected">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Unprotected</a> ... -- <a href="/wiki/User:AnonMoos" title="User:AnonMoos">AnonMoos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AnonMoos" title="User talk:AnonMoos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-AnonMoos-20250127050000-172.56.182.234-20250127021100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AnonMoos-20250127050000-172.56.182.234-20250127021100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AnonMoos-20250127050000-172.56.182.234-20250127021100"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-172.56.182.234-20250127060100-AnonMoos-20250127050000"></span>Merci beaucoup! <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/172.56.182.234" title="Special:Contributions/172.56.182.234">172.56.182.234</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:172.56.182.234" title="User talk:172.56.182.234">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-172.56.182.234-20250127060100-AnonMoos-20250127050000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:01, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-172.56.182.234-20250127060100-AnonMoos-20250127050000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-172.56.182.234-20250127060100-AnonMoos-20250127050000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Juntas_in_North_Africa" data-mw-thread-id="h-Juntas_in_North_Africa-January_27-20250127070400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Juntas_in_North_Africa-January_27-20250127070400"></span>Juntas in North Africa<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Juntas_in_North_Africa-January_27-20250127070400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: Juntas in North Africa"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20250127070400-Juntas_in_North_Africa"></span>How come almost every country along the band stretching from <a href="/wiki/Guinea" title="Guinea">Guinea</a> to <a href="/wiki/Sudan" title="Sudan">Sudan</a> is either a <a href="/wiki/Military_dictatorship" title="Military dictatorship">military dictatorship</a> or was one very recently? <a href="/wiki/User:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User:Someone who's wrong on the internet">Someone who's wrong on the internet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User talk:Someone who's wrong on the internet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20250127070400-Juntas_in_North_Africa" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:04, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20250127070400-Juntas_in_North_Africa"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20250127070400-Juntas_in_North_Africa"></span> </p> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-172.56.182.234-20250127071000-Juntas_in_North_Africa"></span>wp:deny </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;">The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <dl><dd>Sub-Saharan Africa does not have a rich tradition of democracy. Where democracy is more entrenched, backsliding is harder (though not impossible--<a href="/wiki/January_6_United_States_Capitol_attack" title="January 6 United States Capitol attack">January 6</a> comes to mind, as do the <a href="/wiki/Attempts_to_overturn_the_2020_election" class="mw-redirect" title="Attempts to overturn the 2020 election">attempts to overturn the 2020 election</a>), but where it isn't entrenched, it's easy for new dictatorships to replace old ones, or for short-lived democracies to be replaced by new dictatorships. Like in Germany in 1933 or in Russia in 1917. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/172.56.182.234" title="Special:Contributions/172.56.182.234">172.56.182.234</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:172.56.182.234" title="User talk:172.56.182.234">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-172.56.182.234-20250127071000-Juntas_in_North_Africa" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:10, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-172.56.182.234-20250127071000-Juntas_in_North_Africa"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-172.56.182.234-20250127071000-Juntas_in_North_Africa"></span></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20250127090400-172.56.182.234-20250127071000"></span>Why are they military dictatorships specifically, as opposed to other forms of dictatorship? <a href="/wiki/User:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User:Someone who's wrong on the internet">Someone who's wrong on the internet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User talk:Someone who's wrong on the internet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20250127090400-172.56.182.234-20250127071000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:04, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20250127090400-172.56.182.234-20250127071000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Someone_who's_wrong_on_the_internet-20250127090400-172.56.182.234-20250127071000"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Someone_who%27s_wrong_on_the_internet" title="User:Someone who's wrong on the internet"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250127073700-172.56.182.234-20250127071000"></span>Someone who's wrong on the internet</a>, that area is known as the <a href="/wiki/Sahel" title="Sahel">Sahel</a>. We don't seem to have an article on it, but a web search for Sahel and politics and/or your more specific terms of choice will provide a lot of information. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Chipmunkdavis-20250127073700-172.56.182.234-20250127071000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:37, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250127073700-172.56.182.234-20250127071000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250127073700-172.56.182.234-20250127071000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-115.188.138.105-20250128093600-Chipmunkdavis-20250127073700"></span>We do have an article on it, <a href="/wiki/Coup_Belt" title="Coup Belt">Coup Belt</a>, which has a bit of information. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/115.188.138.105" title="Special:Contributions/115.188.138.105">115.188.138.105</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:115.188.138.105" title="User talk:115.188.138.105">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-115.188.138.105-20250128093600-Chipmunkdavis-20250127073700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:36, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-115.188.138.105-20250128093600-Chipmunkdavis-20250127073700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-115.188.138.105-20250128093600-Chipmunkdavis-20250127073700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250129131300-115.188.138.105-20250128093600"></span>Thanks, good find. Unfortunately short. <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Chipmunkdavis-20250129131300-115.188.138.105-20250128093600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:13, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250129131300-115.188.138.105-20250128093600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250129131300-115.188.138.105-20250128093600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Do_you_know_these_men?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Do_you_know_these_men?-January_27-20250127220900"><span id="Do_you_know_these_men.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Do_you_know_these_men?-January_27-20250127220900"></span>Do you know these men?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Do_you_know_these_men?-January_27-20250127220900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: Do you know these men?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250127220900-Do_you_know_these_men?"></span><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Vietnam_peace_agreement_signing,_27580141,_new.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Vietnam_peace_agreement_signing%2C_27580141%2C_new.jpg/220px-Vietnam_peace_agreement_signing%2C_27580141%2C_new.jpg" decoding="async" width="220" height="149" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Vietnam_peace_agreement_signing%2C_27580141%2C_new.jpg/330px-Vietnam_peace_agreement_signing%2C_27580141%2C_new.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c5/Vietnam_peace_agreement_signing%2C_27580141%2C_new.jpg/440px-Vietnam_peace_agreement_signing%2C_27580141%2C_new.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2950" data-file-height="1997"/></a><figcaption>A picture of some middle-aged white men</figcaption></figure> <p>Today's "Picture of the Day" shews US Secretary of State <a href="/wiki/William_P._Rogers" title="William P. Rogers">William P. Rogers</a> signing the <a href="/wiki/Paris_Peace_Accords" title="Paris Peace Accords">Paris Peace Accords</a>, 27 January 1973, at the <a href="/wiki/Hotel_Majestic_(Paris)" class="mw-redirect" title="Hotel Majestic (Paris)">Hotel Majestic</a>. But who else is in the picture? Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250127220900-Do_you_know_these_men?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 27 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250127220900-Do_you_know_these_men?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250127220900-Do_you_know_these_men?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jpgordon-20250128043000-DuncanHill-20250127220900"></span>"William J. Porter, the new Deputy Undersecretary of State who had been the United States delegate to the semi-public talks until this month, flew to Paris with Mr Rogers and sat at the table with him. Heywood Isham, acting head of the United States delegation, Marshall Green, Assistant Secretary of State for East Asian and Pacific Affairs, and William H. Sullivan, Mr Green’s deputy, who has been leading technical talks with the North Vietnamese here, completed the American group at the table." <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.nytimes.com/1973/01/28/archives/vietnam-peace-pacts-signed-americas-longest-war-halts-built-on.html">[18]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Jpgordon" title="User:Jpgordon">--jpgordon</a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jpgordon" title="User talk:Jpgordon">𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇</a></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Jpgordon-20250128043000-DuncanHill-20250127220900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:30, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jpgordon-20250128043000-DuncanHill-20250127220900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jpgordon-20250128043000-DuncanHill-20250127220900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jpgordon-20250128043700-Jpgordon-20250128043000"></span>(this was from a Google search for <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">US Secretary of State William Rogers Signing the Paris Peace Accords</q>.) <a href="/wiki/User:Jpgordon" title="User:Jpgordon">--jpgordon</a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jpgordon" title="User talk:Jpgordon">𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇</a></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Jpgordon-20250128043700-Jpgordon-20250128043000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:37, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jpgordon-20250128043700-Jpgordon-20250128043000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jpgordon-20250128043700-Jpgordon-20250128043000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250129114500-Jpgordon-20250128043700"></span>Thanks, so seated at the table, from left to right, 1) <a href="/wiki/William_H._Sullivan" title="William H. Sullivan">William H. Sullivan</a>, 2) <a href="/wiki/William_J._Porter" title="William J. Porter">William J. Porter</a>, 3) <a href="/wiki/William_P._Rogers" title="William P. Rogers">William P. Rogers</a>, 4) not sure, I think <a href="/wiki/Marshall_Green" title="Marshall Green">Marshall Green</a>, 5) not sure. None of them look bald enough to be <a href="/wiki/Heyward_Isham" title="Heyward Isham">Heyward Isham</a> who you can see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ebay.com/itm/375448636921">here</a>. I'd like to know who the two men standing behind them are. The one on our right appears to be wearing some kind of chain of office. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250129114500-Jpgordon-20250128043700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:45, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250129114500-Jpgordon-20250128043700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250129114500-Jpgordon-20250128043700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jpgordon-20250129155700-DuncanHill-20250129114500"></span>Hm, somewhere on this search I found a mention of him as an usher. Note the white gloves. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://baotangchungtichchientranh.vn/resource/files/6(2).jpg">Here's</a> a few more pictures of the event. <a href="/wiki/User:Jpgordon" title="User:Jpgordon">--jpgordon</a><sup><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jpgordon" title="User talk:Jpgordon">𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇</a></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Jpgordon-20250129155700-DuncanHill-20250129114500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:57, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jpgordon-20250129155700-DuncanHill-20250129114500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jpgordon-20250129155700-DuncanHill-20250129114500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_28" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_28-20250128072300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_28-20250128072300"></span>January 28<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_28-20250128072300"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: January 28"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Clarence_O._Sherrill" data-mw-thread-id="h-Clarence_O._Sherrill-January_28-20250128072300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Clarence_O._Sherrill-January_28-20250128072300"></span><a href="/wiki/Clarence_O._Sherrill" title="Clarence O. Sherrill">Clarence O. Sherrill</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Clarence_O._Sherrill-January_28-20250128072300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=28" title="Edit section: Clarence O. Sherrill"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-APK-20250128072300-Clarence_O._Sherrill"></span>(I don't know if this belongs here or at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RSN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RSN">WP:RSN</a>) I just finished writing this article and his role as a lieutenant colonel is mentioned in many sources. His <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://ancexplorer.army.mil/publicwmv/index.html#/arlington-national/search/results/1/CghTaGVycmlsbBIIQ2xhcmVuY2U-/">gravestone</a> at Arlington National Cemetery lists his rank as brigadier general. I can't find anything about him being promoted to that, especially since he left the military in 1926 as a lieutenant colonel. Should I just stick with that title? I'm amazed if the most prominent US military cemetery didn't confirm this when he was buried. <a href="/wiki/User:APK" title="User:APK">APK<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(30deg)"> <span style="color: #000080;"><b>hi :-)</b></span></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:APK" title="User talk:APK"><span style="color:#1a1a1a">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-APK-20250128072300-Clarence_O._Sherrill" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:23, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-APK-20250128072300-Clarence_O._Sherrill"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-APK-20250128072300-Clarence_O._Sherrill"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.nps.gov/people/ulysses-s-grant-iii.htm"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250128090100-APK-20250128072300"></span>Here</a> he is named as "Lt. Colonel Clarence O. Sherrill" when he retired from the army in 1925. I can find that he was promoted to colonel,<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=0qmjJu98Z10C&pg=PP5&dq=%22Colonel+Clarence+O.+Sherrill%22&hl=en">[19]</a></sup> which rank he was holding as of 1934.<sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=INAUsNfKQRcC&pg=PA4017&dq=%22Colonel+Clarence+O.+Sherrill%22&hl=en">[20]</a></sup> --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250128090100-APK-20250128072300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:01, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250128090100-APK-20250128072300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250128090100-APK-20250128072300"></span> <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-16319442"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20250128160300-Lambiam-20250128090100"></span>Arlington cemetery: Mistakes may affect 64,000 graves</a>. <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Abductive-20250128160300-Lambiam-20250128090100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:03, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20250128160300-Lambiam-20250128090100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20250128160300-Lambiam-20250128090100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20250128174200-Abductive-20250128160300"></span>See also <a href="/wiki/Colonel_(United_States)#Honorary_colonels" title="Colonel (United States)">Colonel (United States)#Honorary colonels</a>, which might explain why he was promoted after retirement. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Alansplodge-20250128174200-Abductive-20250128160300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:42, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20250128174200-Abductive-20250128160300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20250128174200-Abductive-20250128160300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abductive-20250128174700-Alansplodge-20250128174200"></span>It is also common for retiring officers to be promoted on their last day, to bump up their pensions. <span style="font-family: Cambria;"> <a href="/wiki/User:Abductive" title="User:Abductive"><span style="color: teal;"><b>Abductive</b></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abductive" title="User talk:Abductive">reasoning</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Abductive-20250128174700-Alansplodge-20250128174200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:47, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abductive-20250128174700-Alansplodge-20250128174200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abductive-20250128174700-Alansplodge-20250128174200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-APK-20250128175100-Clarence_O._Sherrill"></span>Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:APK" title="User:APK">APK<span style="display:inline-block;transform:rotate(30deg)"> <span style="color: #000080;"><b>hi :-)</b></span></span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:APK" title="User talk:APK"><span style="color:#1a1a1a">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-APK-20250128175100-Clarence_O._Sherrill" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-APK-20250128175100-Clarence_O._Sherrill"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-APK-20250128175100-Clarence_O._Sherrill"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Orwell_quotations" data-mw-thread-id="h-Orwell_quotations-January_28-20250128182800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Orwell_quotations-January_28-20250128182800"></span>Orwell quotations<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Orwell_quotations-January_28-20250128182800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=29" title="Edit section: Orwell quotations"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mcljlm-20250128182800-Orwell_quotations"></span>Of the Orwell Institute, The Orwell Foundation and The Orwell Society which would be the best to ask about the authenticity of Orwell quotes? Is there another organisation which might be better? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mcljlm&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mcljlm (page does not exist)">Mcljlm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mcljlm" title="User talk:Mcljlm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Mcljlm-20250128182800-Orwell_quotations" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:28, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mcljlm-20250128182800-Orwell_quotations"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mcljlm-20250128182800-Orwell_quotations"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AnonMoos-20250128205900-Mcljlm-20250128182800"></span>If it's a quotation from "Animal <s>House</s> Farm" or <i>1984</i> then Google searching would be far quicker. We also have <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Orwell">https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/George_Orwell</a> ... <a href="/wiki/User:AnonMoos" title="User:AnonMoos">AnonMoos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AnonMoos" title="User talk:AnonMoos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-AnonMoos-20250128205900-Mcljlm-20250128182800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AnonMoos-20250128205900-Mcljlm-20250128182800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AnonMoos-20250128205900-Mcljlm-20250128182800"></span> <dl><dd><i><a href="/wiki/Animal_Farm" title="Animal Farm"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JackofOz-20250128212500-AnonMoos-20250128205900"></span>Animal Farm</a></i>, perhaps? In my experience, Google searching for quote authentication has to be done intelligently. Misattribution of quotes has become the thing the internet and social media does best, so there's a lot of misattributed rubbish out there (and there's a select group of people who seem to get most of the undeserved credit: Oscar Wilde, Mahatma Gandhi, Abraham Lincoln, Mark Twain, Will Rogers ...). Most sites just parrot what other sites say, without any form of independent checking. Wikiquote can be trusted. So can <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://quoteinvestigator.com/about/">Quote Investigator</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:JackofOz" title="User:JackofOz"><span style="font-family: Papyrus;">Jack of Oz</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JackofOz#top" title="User talk:JackofOz"><span style="font-size:85%; font-family: Verdana;"><sup>[pleasantries]</sup></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-JackofOz-20250128212500-AnonMoos-20250128205900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JackofOz-20250128212500-AnonMoos-20250128205900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JackofOz-20250128212500-AnonMoos-20250128205900"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:JackofOz" title="User:JackofOz"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mcljlm-20250128231800-AnonMoos-20250128205900"></span>JackofOz</a> mentions the problematics of Google searching. Wikiquote and QI are more reliable but not as authoritative as an organisation concerned with specifically with Orwell. Two of those I mentioned are in England, the other in the USA. Should I mail all of them? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mcljlm&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mcljlm (page does not exist)">Mcljlm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mcljlm" title="User talk:Mcljlm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Mcljlm-20250128231800-AnonMoos-20250128205900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mcljlm-20250128231800-AnonMoos-20250128205900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mcljlm-20250128231800-AnonMoos-20250128205900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AnonMoos-20250129175700-Mcljlm-20250128231800"></span>If you're interested in quotes from "Animal Farm" or <i>1984</i> you can do what are basically searches of the e-texts of those books... <a href="/wiki/User:AnonMoos" title="User:AnonMoos">AnonMoos</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AnonMoos" title="User talk:AnonMoos">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-AnonMoos-20250129175700-Mcljlm-20250128231800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:57, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AnonMoos-20250129175700-Mcljlm-20250128231800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AnonMoos-20250129175700-Mcljlm-20250128231800"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span style="font-size:85%;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20250130111100-AnonMoos-20250128205900"></span>It was George "Giraffe" Orwell (<i>not</i> Bluto) who said, "Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Clarityfiend-20250130111100-AnonMoos-20250128205900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:11, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20250130111100-AnonMoos-20250128205900"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20250130111100-AnonMoos-20250128205900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250129113400-Mcljlm-20250128182800"></span>Several books of quotations state the sources of the quotations, making them verifiable: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=9IhVDgAAQBAJ&pg=PR1551&dq=%22George+Orwell%22&hl=en">[21]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=eWycAQAAQBAJ&pg=PA560&dq=Orwell&hl=en">[22]</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=o6rFno1ffQoC&pg=PA558&dq=%22George+Orwell%22&hl=en">[23]</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250129113400-Mcljlm-20250128182800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:34, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250129113400-Mcljlm-20250128182800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250129113400-Mcljlm-20250128182800"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250129222100-Lambiam-20250129113400"></span>I find the service here is rather good. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250129222100-Lambiam-20250129113400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:21, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250129222100-Lambiam-20250129113400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250129222100-Lambiam-20250129113400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mcljlm-20250130040800-DuncanHill-20250129222100"></span>Where is "here"? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mcljlm&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mcljlm (page does not exist)">Mcljlm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mcljlm" title="User talk:Mcljlm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Mcljlm-20250130040800-DuncanHill-20250129222100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:08, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mcljlm-20250130040800-DuncanHill-20250129222100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mcljlm-20250130040800-DuncanHill-20250129222100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20250130111900-Mcljlm-20250130040800"></span>He's saying that if you want to find out whether an Orwell quote is authentic, you should ask about it on this reference desk. --<a href="/wiki/User:Viennese_Waltz" title="User:Viennese Waltz">Viennese Waltz</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Viennese_Waltz-20250130111900-Mcljlm-20250130040800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:19, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Viennese_Waltz-20250130111900-Mcljlm-20250130040800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Viennese_Waltz-20250130111900-Mcljlm-20250130040800"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mcljlm-20250130132800-DuncanHill-20250129222100"></span>In this thread or in new questions? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mcljlm&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mcljlm (page does not exist)">Mcljlm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mcljlm" title="User talk:Mcljlm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Mcljlm-20250130132800-DuncanHill-20250129222100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:28, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mcljlm-20250130132800-DuncanHill-20250129222100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mcljlm-20250130132800-DuncanHill-20250129222100"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_island_west_of_Kure?" data-mw-thread-id="h-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_islan-January_28-20250128210000"><span id="What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Cur.C3.A9_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll.3F_Was_there_an_island_west_of_Kure.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_islan-January_28-20250128210000"></span>What is the origin of the name Curé and Ouro for Kure Atoll? Was there an island west of Kure?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_islan-January_28-20250128210000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=30" title="Edit section: What is the origin of the name Curé and Ouro for Kure Atoll? Was there an island west of Kure?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-A75-20250128210000-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_islan"></span>There was two discussions in this area a couple years ago: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2023_March_11#Kure_eponym" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 March 11">Kure names</a> )(the previous day this discussion <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2023_March_10#Islands_northwest_of_Midway_Atoll" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 March 10"> Islands northwest of Midway</a>). I noticed one of the names discussed on an old map, and added to that discussion, but the help desk suggested I ask a new question, so here it is. What is the origin of the name found on this map: <a href="/wiki/File:1855_Spruner_Map_of_Australia_and_Polynesia_with_an_overview_of_Discoveries_and_Colonization_-_Geographicus_-_AustraliaPolynesia-spruner-1855.jpg" title="File:1855 Spruner Map of Australia and Polynesia with an overview of Discoveries and Colonization - Geographicus - AustraliaPolynesia-spruner-1855.jpg">1855 map</a> listing a <i>Curé</i> island west of Pearl and Hermes. It also has "it" as Ouro, which is Portuguese for Gold. The second part of the question, is it possible there was an island west of Kure, that corresponds to something like the Hancock Seamount (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.fao.org/4/a0337e/A0337E281.jpg">northwest of kure</a>) but has since collapsed into the sea but several hundred years ago might of been there? I find it odd so many islands were found west of Kure Atoll, and there is a clear mechanism they could be submerged is Kure is the farthest north coral atoll, beyond this the corals would likely die and stop the island growing. Secondly, the sea level has risen in the last centuries. Were they simply a midentification Kure, midway, etc.? Thanks in advance. <a href="/wiki/User:A75" title="User:A75">A75</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:A75" title="User talk:A75">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-A75-20250128210000-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_islan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-A75-20250128210000-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_islan"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-A75-20250128210000-What_is_the_origin_of_the_name_Curé_and_Ouro_for_Kure_Atoll?_Was_there_an_islan"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fiveby-20250129025800-A75-20250128210000"></span>What a fun question that was. I think there is a very good case to make that the atoll was sighted by Nantucket whalers on or after 1820 and named <i>Cure's</i>, <i>Curé</i>, or <i>Cure</i>. Our "Russian navigator Kure" possibly <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20230313131433/https://edits.nationalmap.gov/apps/gaz-domestic-services/file/5c76e7f1-8af9-59db-8937-7ca04c9377ef/view">invented</a> by the Hawaiian Advisory Committee to the <a href="/wiki/U.S._Board_on_Geographic_Names" class="mw-redirect" title="U.S. Board on Geographic Names">U.S. Board on Geographic Names</a>. Can list the sources again but it is really guesswork.</dd> <dd>Since renaming geographic features is news these days let's move the article to <i>Papapa</i>. The Kingdom of Hawaii annexed it in 1886 and built a structure for the aid of mariners in distress. That should give priority to the name. <a href="/wiki/User:Fiveby" title="User:Fiveby">fiveby</a>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fiveby" title="User talk:Fiveby">zero</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Fiveby-20250129025800-A75-20250128210000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fiveby-20250129025800-A75-20250128210000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fiveby-20250129025800-A75-20250128210000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-A75-20250130175600-Fiveby-20250129025800"></span>Thanks for reply, I agree it might be time to rename it to something more meaningful. If there really was no Captain Kure the russian navigator, maybe its time to go back to ocean island, or as you suggest perhaps hawaiian (or maybe something related to the Nantucket sailors?). <a href="/wiki/User:A75" title="User:A75">A75</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:A75" title="User talk:A75">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-A75-20250130175600-Fiveby-20250129025800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-A75-20250130175600-Fiveby-20250129025800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-A75-20250130175600-Fiveby-20250129025800"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-115.188.138.105-20250129235000-A75-20250128210000"></span>I'd say that most of the islands found west of Kure Atoll are probably <a href="/wiki/Phantom_islands" class="mw-redirect" title="Phantom islands">phantom islands</a> e.g the "Byera" on the map probably corresponds to <a href="/wiki/Byers%27s_Island" title="Byers's Island">Byers's Island</a>, many probably came from <a href="/wiki/Benjamin_Morrell" title="Benjamin Morrell">Benjamin Morrell</a> who was notorious at making up things. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/115.188.138.105" title="Special:Contributions/115.188.138.105">115.188.138.105</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:115.188.138.105" title="User talk:115.188.138.105">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-115.188.138.105-20250129235000-A75-20250128210000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-115.188.138.105-20250129235000-A75-20250128210000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-115.188.138.105-20250129235000-A75-20250128210000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-A75-20250130175600-115.188.138.105-20250129235000"></span>I think you are right about Byera, and its a German language map so maybe it was changed. I would say it could might be a transcription mistake also: Byer's and Byera are very close typographically. You are probably correct they just phantoms west of Kure, but it was fun to ask, maybe there was some research on the seamounts or history that could shed some light on this. The unclear origins of some of these names is frustrating. <a href="/wiki/User:A75" title="User:A75">A75</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:A75" title="User talk:A75">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-A75-20250130175600-115.188.138.105-20250129235000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-A75-20250130175600-115.188.138.105-20250129235000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-A75-20250130175600-115.188.138.105-20250129235000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-A75-20250130232100-115.188.138.105-20250129235000"></span>There is several other islands there such as Patrocino, Crespo, Los Colonas, Loth's Weibb (Roca del Oro), even farther west the Morell and Byer's. That is where I can't help but wonder if there was there atoll a few hundred years ago that has slipped below the waves now. <a href="/wiki/User:A75" title="User:A75">A75</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:A75" title="User talk:A75">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-A75-20250130232100-115.188.138.105-20250129235000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:21, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-A75-20250130232100-115.188.138.105-20250129235000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-A75-20250130232100-115.188.138.105-20250129235000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-115.188.138.105-20250201054600-A75-20250130232100"></span>Patrocinio seems to be another phantom island discovered by a Captain Don M(iguel)? Zipiani in 1799. He subsequently tried to find it again at his written co-ordinates by couldn't find it. Was once suggested to be possibly <a href="/wiki/Byers%27s_Island" title="Byers's Island">Byers's Island</a> until that was also found to be a phantom (e.g <a href="/wiki/File:North-Pacific_Ocean_-_btv1b53029194t.jpg" title="File:North-Pacific Ocean - btv1b53029194t.jpg">on this map</a>).</dd> <dd>Crespo probably corresponds to the island in the fictitious novel <a href="/wiki/Twenty_Thousand_Leagues_under_the_Sea" class="mw-redirect" title="Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea">Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea</a>, discovered in 1801 in the book.</dd> <dd>I can't find much info on Las Colonas, but it seems to have already been doubted on the map you gave.</dd> <dd>Islands further west seem to have formed the phantom <a href="/wiki/Anson_Archipelago" title="Anson Archipelago">Anson Archipelago</a>, Roca del Oro included. Not sure where the name "Loth's Weibb" comes from but it might be related to <a href="/wiki/Lot%27s_Wife_(crag)" title="Lot's Wife (crag)">Lot's Wife (crag)</a>. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/115.188.138.105" title="Special:Contributions/115.188.138.105">115.188.138.105</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:115.188.138.105" title="User talk:115.188.138.105">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-115.188.138.105-20250201054600-A75-20250130232100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:46, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-115.188.138.105-20250201054600-A75-20250130232100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-115.188.138.105-20250201054600-A75-20250130232100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-A75-20250201192800-115.188.138.105-20250201054600"></span>Thanks for the thoughts! This <a href="/wiki/File:Stielers_Handatlas_1891_75.jpg" title="File:Stielers Handatlas 1891 75.jpg">1891 map</a> has Crespo as Roca del Plata, and as you suggest also has Patrocinio as Byers. Any thoughts on <a href="/wiki/Ganges_Island" title="Ganges Island">Ganges Island</a>? On the science side of islands disappearing, I noticed this article <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-08/the-long-lost-island-still-visible-from-space/103740538">this article</a>, which makes a case for Lark shoals, being former lark islands vanishing in the South Pacific. If there was an island between Kure and Japan, maybe it was felled by an earthquake causing a landslide. <a href="/wiki/User:A75" title="User:A75">A75</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:A75" title="User talk:A75">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-A75-20250201192800-115.188.138.105-20250201054600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-A75-20250201192800-115.188.138.105-20250201054600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-A75-20250201192800-115.188.138.105-20250201054600"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Ganges_Island" title="Ganges Island"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-115.188.138.105-20250201221400-A75-20250201192800"></span>Ganges Island</a>, as noted on the article you linked, turned out to be phantom. The article stated that <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">the surrounding waters were explored on a large scale, but no discovery was made at all</q>.</dd> <dd>I don't think that an earthquake and landslide would likely happen in places like Hawaii. In the South Pacific, there are many small <a href="/wiki/Tectonic_plate" class="mw-redirect" title="Tectonic plate">tectonic plates</a> and <a href="/wiki/Subduction_zone" class="mw-redirect" title="Subduction zone">subduction zones</a> around the area which are capable of causing plenty of earthquakes. The North Pacific however, has none of these, with islands like Kure Atoll being right in the middle of the <a href="/wiki/Pacific_Plate" class="mw-redirect" title="Pacific Plate">Pacific Plate</a>.</dd> <dd>Any islands that did exist would most likely be part of the <a href="/wiki/Hawaiian%E2%80%93Emperor_seamount_chain" title="Hawaiian–Emperor seamount chain">Hawaiian–Emperor seamount chain</a> (<a href="/wiki/List_of_volcanoes_in_the_Hawaiian%E2%80%93Emperor_seamount_chain" title="List of volcanoes in the Hawaiian–Emperor seamount chain">List of seamounts</a>). The shallowest of those west of Kure Atoll is around 60 meters below sea level. All of these former islands likely were slowly eroded away via ocean waves and disappeared beneath long before any humans arrived. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/115.188.138.105" title="Special:Contributions/115.188.138.105">115.188.138.105</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:115.188.138.105" title="User talk:115.188.138.105">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-115.188.138.105-20250201221400-A75-20250201192800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-115.188.138.105-20250201221400-A75-20250201192800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-115.188.138.105-20250201221400-A75-20250201192800"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-A75-20250201194300-115.188.138.105-20250201054600"></span>Just a thought, if there was an island that collapsed west of Kure, it might have drowned corals on it. <a href="/wiki/User:A75" title="User:A75">A75</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:A75" title="User talk:A75">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-A75-20250201194300-115.188.138.105-20250201054600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:43, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-A75-20250201194300-115.188.138.105-20250201054600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-A75-20250201194300-115.188.138.105-20250201054600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Progum_and_Kent" data-mw-thread-id="h-Progum_and_Kent-January_28-20250128220400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Progum_and_Kent-January_28-20250128220400"></span>Progum and Kent<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Progum_and_Kent-January_28-20250128220400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=31" title="Edit section: Progum and Kent"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://irecommend-ru.translate.goog/content/tot-samyi-turbo-iz-detstva-ne-sovsem-no-priyatno-bylo-ponostalgirovat?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ru&_x_tr_pto=wapp"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brandmeister-20250128220400-Progum_and_Kent"></span>Allegedly</a>, PowerGum, a trademark of Turkish company Progum, bought the trademark rights for <a href="/wiki/Turbo_(chewing_gum)" title="Turbo (chewing gum)">Turbo chewing gum</a> from its original manufacturer, Kent (in 2013, per some sources). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.progum.com.tr/turbo-fife.asp#turbo_tutti_furitti">Progum's entry on Turbo</a> doesn't confirm that, but shows PowerGum as a <a href="/wiki/Registered_trademark_symbol" title="Registered trademark symbol">registered trademark symbol</a>. Is there some online database or other official source confirming PowerGum / Progum's purchase of rights from Kent? <small>For the record, such Turbo is produced under PowerGum mark with Progum stated as manufacturer, according to package that I have.</small> <a href="/wiki/User:Brandmeister" title="User:Brandmeister">Brandmeister</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brandmeister" title="User talk:Brandmeister">talk</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Brandmeister-20250128220400-Progum_and_Kent" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 28 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brandmeister-20250128220400-Progum_and_Kent"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brandmeister-20250128220400-Progum_and_Kent"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_29" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_29-20250129060800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_29-20250129060800"></span>January 29<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_29-20250129060800"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=32" title="Edit section: January 29"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Name_of_the_phenomena" data-mw-thread-id="h-Name_of_the_phenomena-January_29-20250129060800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Name_of_the_phenomena-January_29-20250129060800"></span>Name of the phenomena<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Name_of_the_phenomena-January_29-20250129060800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=33" title="Edit section: Name of the phenomena"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ohanian-20250129060800-Name_of_the_phenomena"></span>What is the name of the phenomena where the fetish nurse uniform is more accepted by the public as genuine than an actual nurse uniform. Not restricted just to nurse. Where public perception is completely different from the actual reality, like spies looking like James Bond. <a href="/wiki/User:Ohanian" title="User:Ohanian">Ohanian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ohanian" title="User talk:Ohanian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Ohanian-20250129060800-Name_of_the_phenomena" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:08, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ohanian-20250129060800-Name_of_the_phenomena"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ohanian-20250129060800-Name_of_the_phenomena"></span> </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/TV_Tropes" title="TV Tropes"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Slowking_Man-20250129082500-Ohanian-20250129060800"></span>TV Tropes</a> calls it <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RealityIsUnrealistic">Reality Is Unrealistic</a>. See also <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheCoconutEffect">The Coconut Effect</a>, <a href="/wiki/Kayfabe" title="Kayfabe">kayfabe</a>. <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1244412712">.mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 32px}.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;margin-top:0}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{padding-left:1.6em}}</style><blockquote class="templatequote"><p> I love acting. It is so much more real than life. </p><div class="templatequotecite">— <cite>Lord Henry Wotton, in <a href="/wiki/Oscar_Wilde" title="Oscar Wilde">Oscar Wilde</a>, <i><a href="/wiki/The_Picture_of_Dorian_Gray" title="The Picture of Dorian Gray">The Picture of Dorian Gray</a></i></cite></div></blockquote> --<a href="/wiki/User:Slowking_Man" title="User:Slowking Man">Slowking Man</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Slowking_Man" title="User talk:Slowking Man">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Slowking_Man-20250129082500-Ohanian-20250129060800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:25, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Slowking_Man-20250129082500-Ohanian-20250129060800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Slowking_Man-20250129082500-Ohanian-20250129060800"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matt_Deres-20250129143700-Ohanian-20250129060800"></span>See also <a href="/wiki/Tiffany_Problem" title="Tiffany Problem">Tiffany Problem</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Matt_Deres" title="User:Matt Deres">Matt Deres</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matt_Deres" title="User talk:Matt Deres">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Matt_Deres-20250129143700-Ohanian-20250129060800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:37, 29 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matt_Deres-20250129143700-Ohanian-20250129060800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matt_Deres-20250129143700-Ohanian-20250129060800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MinorProphet-20250201233500-Matt_Deres-20250129143700"></span>See also <small><a href="/wiki/Kenneth_Williams" title="Kenneth Williams">"Ooh, Matron"</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:MinorProphet" title="User:MinorProphet">MinorProphet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MinorProphet" title="User talk:MinorProphet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-MinorProphet-20250201233500-Matt_Deres-20250129143700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:35, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a> <span data-mw-comment-end="c-MinorProphet-20250201233500-Matt_Deres-20250129143700"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MinorProphet-20250201233500-Matt_Deres-20250129143700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_30" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_30-20250130063400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_30-20250130063400"></span>January 30<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_30-20250130063400"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=34" title="Edit section: January 30"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament" data-mw-thread-id="h-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament-January_30-20250130063400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament-January_30-20250130063400"></span>Rennie Garden 1862 Act of Parliament<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament-January_30-20250130063400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=35" title="Edit section: Rennie Garden 1862 Act of Parliament"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament"></span>Hello, according to an inscription at Rennie Garden (trying to figure out if it's notable), it states "in 1862 the Corporation of London secured the preservation of this garden, through an Act of Parliament" (can be read <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.londonremembers.com/memorials/rennie-garden">here</a> in full). The few sources I've found repeat this claim, without any details. We have <a href="/wiki/List_of_acts_of_the_Parliament_of_the_United_Kingdom_from_1862" title="List of acts of the Parliament of the United Kingdom from 1862">List of acts of the Parliament of the United Kingdom from 1862</a>, which touts itself as a "complete list". Unfortunately, the City of London is mentioned only once, the Corporation not at all, and the London-related bills seem to be all railways. I suppose it could be a railway bill given the location, but any ideas as to where more information could be found? Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Chipmunkdavis" title="User:Chipmunkdavis">CMD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chipmunkdavis" title="User talk:Chipmunkdavis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:34, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400-Rennie_Garden_1862_Act_of_Parliament"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20250130123900-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400"></span>I've drawn a bit of a blank too. I wonder if the park was preserved somehow through the <a href="/wiki/Land_Registry_Act_1862" title="Land Registry Act 1862">Land Registry Act 1862</a>? Caveat - I know next to nothing about property law. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Alansplodge-20250130123900-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:39, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20250130123900-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20250130123900-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250130191200-Alansplodge-20250130123900"></span>I would suspect the Blackfriars Bridge Act 1863. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250130191200-Alansplodge-20250130123900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:12, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250130191200-Alansplodge-20250130123900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250130191200-Alansplodge-20250130123900"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250130192300-Alansplodge-20250130123900"></span>Courtesy links - <a href="/wiki/John_Rennie_the_Elder" title="John Rennie the Elder">John Rennie the Elder</a>, <a href="/wiki/Albion_Mills,_Southwark" title="Albion Mills, Southwark">Albion Mills, Southwark</a>, <a href="/wiki/And_Did_Those_Feet" class="mw-redirect" title="And Did Those Feet">And Did Those Feet</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250130192300-Alansplodge-20250130123900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 30 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250130192300-Alansplodge-20250130123900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250130192300-Alansplodge-20250130123900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Smurrayinchester-20250131111600-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400"></span>Searching legislation.gov.uk finds nothing containing "Rennie" or "Blackfriars" but it <i>does</i> find the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/26-27/13/section/1/1991-02-01">Town Gardens Protection Act 1863</a>, which allowed local government bodies to take over neglected public gardens in order to preserve them. It's possible that the story has got slightly managled, and what they mean is that the Corporation of London took charge of it under that Act. It would certainly be very weird for an Act of Parliament to be needed to preserve a small urban square. <a href="/wiki/User:Smurrayinchester" title="User:Smurrayinchester">Smurrayinchester</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Smurrayinchester-20250131111600-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:16, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Smurrayinchester-20250131111600-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Smurrayinchester-20250131111600-Chipmunkdavis-20250130063400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Smurrayinchester-20250131112500-Smurrayinchester-20250131111600"></span>(It looks like the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1863/62">Blackfriars Bridge Act 1863</a> is not currently on gov.uk, however. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://vlex.co.uk/vid/blackfriars-bridge-act-1863-808136757">You can read it if you have a free trial of VLEX</a> - I don't know if it's in there or not.) <a href="/wiki/User:Smurrayinchester" title="User:Smurrayinchester">Smurrayinchester</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Smurrayinchester-20250131112500-Smurrayinchester-20250131111600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:25, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Smurrayinchester-20250131112500-Smurrayinchester-20250131111600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Smurrayinchester-20250131112500-Smurrayinchester-20250131111600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20250131151600-Smurrayinchester-20250131112500"></span>A precis of the Blackfriars Bridge Act is in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RY9tEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA404"><i>The Statutes of The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland: Vol. 26</i> (p. 404)</a>. No mention of a park but Sections 4-7 cover the "Power to take lands". <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Alansplodge-20250131151600-Smurrayinchester-20250131112500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20250131151600-Smurrayinchester-20250131112500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20250131151600-Smurrayinchester-20250131112500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20250131151600-Alansplodge-20250131151600"></span>Another suspect might be the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://vlex.co.uk/vid/thames-embankment-act-1862-808486885">Thames Embankment Act 1862</a> which seems to include the riverside up to Blackfriars Bridge. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Alansplodge-20250131151600-Alansplodge-20250131151600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20250131151600-Alansplodge-20250131151600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20250131151600-Alansplodge-20250131151600"></span> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93-20250131160800-Alansplodge-20250131151600"></span>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)</small> The only problem with Smurrayinchester's theory is that the right of preservation is vested in the local authority covering the area in which the garden is situated. The jurisdiction of the City of London ends north of the garden. The Blackfriars Bridge Act 1863 was concerned only with the structure of the bridge <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=87JDAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA748">[24]</a>. Another piece of legislation mentions New Bridge Street, but this appears to be in Lambeth <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cvj52BNoB1kC">[25]</a> (at p. 663). An earlier 1862 Act <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=CjxMAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA488">[26]</a> says nothing on the matter. An earlier 1863 Act <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=cvj52BNoB1kC&pg=PA417">[27]</a> (same volume as the Lambeth one) is likewise concerned with land within the City of London. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93" title="Special:Contributions/2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93">2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93-20250131160800-Alansplodge-20250131151600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:08, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93-20250131160800-Alansplodge-20250131151600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93-20250131160800-Alansplodge-20250131151600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/londons-pocket-parks-rennie-garden-se1-39618/"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MinorProphet-20250201201900-2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93-20250131160800"></span>This webpage</a> shows how the City/Corporation of London may indeed have some jurisdiction over this transpontine locality, see also <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.citybridgefoundation.org.uk/about/history">City Bridge Foundation</a>. Just because the info re "Act of Parliament" appears on some random public noticeboard, it doesn't mean it is necessarily so, and some other form of legislation or jurisdiction could be the the case. <a href="/wiki/User:MinorProphet" title="User:MinorProphet">MinorProphet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MinorProphet" title="User talk:MinorProphet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-MinorProphet-20250201201900-2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93-20250131160800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MinorProphet-20250201201900-2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93-20250131160800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MinorProphet-20250201201900-2A00:23C7:2B43:5D01:D49A:4B36:DF86:DF93-20250131160800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="January_31" data-mw-thread-id="h-January_31-20250131045700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-January_31-20250131045700"></span>January 31<span data-mw-comment-end="h-January_31-20250131045700"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=36" title="Edit section: January 31"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II" data-mw-thread-id="h-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II-January_31-20250131045700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II-January_31-20250131045700"></span>Prime ministers of Elizabeth II<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II-January_31-20250131045700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=37" title="Edit section: Prime ministers of Elizabeth II"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nyttend-20250131045700-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II"></span>How many prime ministers did Elizabeth II have, including colonial PMs? <a href="/wiki/List_of_prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II" title="List of prime ministers of Elizabeth II">List of prime ministers of Elizabeth II</a> says that she had 179 prime ministers, but the list excludes "holders of offices of prime minister in colonies". <a href="/wiki/User:Nyttend" title="User:Nyttend">Nyttend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nyttend" title="User talk:Nyttend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Nyttend-20250131045700-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:57, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nyttend-20250131045700-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nyttend-20250131045700-Prime_ministers_of_Elizabeth_II"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20250131145300-Nyttend-20250131045700"></span>I'm not sure that British colonies had prime ministers <i>per se</i>. Our article on <a href="/wiki/Kenya_Colony" title="Kenya Colony">Kenya Colony</a>, for example, says:</dd> <dd><span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">The Legislative Council in 1956 consisted of the <a href="/wiki/Governor#British_Empire_and_Commonwealth_realms" title="Governor">Governor</a> as president, a Speaker as vice-president and 56 members.</span></dd> <dd>The first <a href="/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Kenya" title="Prime Minister of Kenya">Prime Minister of Kenya</a> was appointed on independence in 1963.</dd> <dd>Colonies that didn't (or couldn't) choose independence are since 1983 called <a href="/wiki/British_Overseas_Territories" title="British Overseas Territories">British Overseas Territories</a> which are largely self-governing. <a href="/wiki/Gibraltar" title="Gibraltar">Gibraltar</a> has a <a href="/wiki/Gibraltar_Parliament" title="Gibraltar Parliament">Parliament</a>, but is headed by the <a href="/wiki/Chief_Minister_of_Gibraltar" title="Chief Minister of Gibraltar">Chief Minister of Gibraltar</a>. The Falkland Islands has an <a href="/wiki/Executive_Council_of_the_Falkland_Islands" title="Executive Council of the Falkland Islands">Executive Council</a> headed by the <a href="/wiki/Chief_Executive_of_the_Falkland_Islands" title="Chief Executive of the Falkland Islands">Chief Executive</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Alansplodge-20250131145300-Nyttend-20250131045700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:53, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20250131145300-Nyttend-20250131045700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20250131145300-Nyttend-20250131045700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250131154000-Nyttend-20250131045700"></span>Malta had Prime Ministers before independence. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250131154000-Nyttend-20250131045700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:40, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250131154000-Nyttend-20250131045700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250131154000-Nyttend-20250131045700"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250131154400-Nyttend-20250131045700"></span>The article linked by OP has links to lists of prime ministers for each country, those lists include pre-independence PMs. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250131154400-Nyttend-20250131045700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:44, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250131154400-Nyttend-20250131045700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250131154400-Nyttend-20250131045700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nyttend-20250131180000-DuncanHill-20250131154400"></span>As far as I can see, the only pre-independence PMs on the list are the ones who were incumbents at independence. For example, the Gambia section gives only one individual, <a href="/wiki/Dawda_Jawara" title="Dawda Jawara">Dawda Jawara</a>, who was PM at independence in 1965, but <a href="/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_the_Gambia" title="Prime Minister of the Gambia">Prime Minister of the Gambia</a> lists another PM, <a href="/wiki/Pierre_Sarr_N%27Jie" title="Pierre Sarr N'Jie">Pierre Sarr N'Jie</a>, who served as colonial PM 1961-1962, and it gives information for Jawara as colonial PM 1962-1965. <a href="/wiki/User:Nyttend" title="User:Nyttend">Nyttend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nyttend" title="User talk:Nyttend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Nyttend-20250131180000-DuncanHill-20250131154400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nyttend-20250131180000-DuncanHill-20250131154400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nyttend-20250131180000-DuncanHill-20250131154400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250131192700-Nyttend-20250131180000"></span>Did you check <a href="/wiki/Prime_Minister_of_Rhodesia" title="Prime Minister of Rhodesia">Prime Minister of Rhodesia</a> (which mentions the two Prime Ministers of the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland)? <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250131192700-Nyttend-20250131180000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:27, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250131192700-Nyttend-20250131180000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250131192700-Nyttend-20250131180000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?" data-mw-thread-id="h-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?-January_31-20250131151600"><span id="If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed.2C_what_is_the_best_choice.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?-January_31-20250131151600"></span>If Kure Atoll were to be renamed, what is the best choice?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?-January_31-20250131151600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=38" title="Edit section: If Kure Atoll were to be renamed, what is the best choice?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matt_Deres-20250131160600-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395271"> <table class="hidden-archive mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed"> <tbody><tr> <th class="hat-header">From the header: "We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate." <a href="/wiki/User:Matt_Deres" title="User:Matt Deres">Matt Deres</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matt_Deres" title="User talk:Matt Deres">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Matt_Deres-20250131160600-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:06, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matt_Deres-20250131160600-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matt_Deres-20250131160600-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?"></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="font-style:italic;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-A75-20250131151600-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?"></span>The following discussion has been closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red);"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="hat-content"> <p>A previous discussion <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2023_March_11#Kure_eponym" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 March 11">here</a>, cast doubt on the origins of the name <i>Kure</i>, which was renamed from Ocean Island to Kure Island in 1924. My questions is, if were to be renamed again what is a good choice? <a href="/wiki/User:A75" title="User:A75">A75</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:A75" title="User talk:A75">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-A75-20250131151600-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-A75-20250131151600-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-A75-20250131151600-If_Kure_Atoll_were_to_be_renamed,_what_is_the_best_choice?"></span> </p> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Glastonbury_Walnut" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Glastonbury_Walnut-January_31-20250131225800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Glastonbury_Walnut-January_31-20250131225800"></span>The Glastonbury Walnut<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Glastonbury_Walnut-January_31-20250131225800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=39" title="Edit section: The Glastonbury Walnut"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20250131225800-The_Glastonbury_Walnut"></span>We all know about the <a href="/wiki/Glastonbury_Thorn" title="Glastonbury Thorn">Glastonbury Thorn</a>, a hawthorn tree which grew from <a href="/wiki/Joseph_of_Arimathea" title="Joseph of Arimathea">Joseph of Arimathea</a>'s staff after one of his visits to England. Our article also mentions a walnut tree. I would be grateful to know more about it, thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-DuncanHill-20250131225800-The_Glastonbury_Walnut" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:58, 31 January 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20250131225800-The_Glastonbury_Walnut"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20250131225800-The_Glastonbury_Walnut"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250201095700-DuncanHill-20250131225800"></span>From <i>the lyfe of Ioseph of Armathia</i>: <dl><dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Great meruaylles men may se at Glastenbury,<br/>One of a walnot tree that there dooth stande,<br/>In the holy grounde called the semetory,<br/>Harde by <i>th</i>e place where kynge Arthur was fou<i>n</i>de. <br/>South fro Iosephs chapell it is walled in rou<i>n</i>de,<br/>It bereth no leaues tyll the day of saynt Barnahe ;<br/>And than that tree, that standeth in the grounde,<br/>Spredeth his leaues as fayre as any other tree.</q><sup><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=gYwzHqpuKjsC&pg=PA49&hl=en">[28]</a></sup></dd></dl></dd> <dd>When this was written, the calendar was the <a href="/wiki/Julian_calendar" title="Julian calendar">Julian calendar</a>, and the feast day of <a href="/wiki/Saint_Barnabas" class="mw-redirect" title="Saint Barnabas">Saint Barnabas</a>, 11 June, was <a href="/wiki/Midsummer" title="Midsummer">Midsummer</a>. ‑‑<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250201095700-DuncanHill-20250131225800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:57, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250201095700-DuncanHill-20250131225800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250201095700-DuncanHill-20250131225800"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Alansplodge-20250201112400-Lambiam-20250201095700"></span>From the account of <a href="/wiki/Charles_Eyston" title="Charles Eyston">Charles Eyston</a> (1667-1721), an English <a href="/wiki/Antiquary" class="mw-redirect" title="Antiquary">antiquary</a>: <dl><dd><span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">Besides the Holy Thorn, <a href="/wiki/William_Camden" title="William Camden">Mr. Camden</a> says there was a miraculous Walnut-Tree, which, by the marginal notes that <a href="/wiki/Edmund_Gibson" title="Edmund Gibson">Mr. Gibson</a> hath set upon Camden, I found grew in the Holy Churchyard, near St. Joseph's Chappel</span> [part of <a href="/wiki/Glastonbury_Abbey" title="Glastonbury Abbey">Glastonbury Abbey</a>]. <span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">This tree, they say, never budded forth before the Feast of St. Barnabas, which is on the eleventh of June, and on that very day shot out leaves and flourish't then as much as others of that kind. <a href="/wiki/Richard_Broughton_(priest)" title="Richard Broughton (priest)">Mr. Broughton</a> says the stock was remaining still alive in his time, with a few small branches, which continued yearly to bring forth leaves upon St. Barnabas's Day as usual. The branches, when he saw it, being too small, young, and tender to bring forth fruit, or sustain their weight; but now this tree is likewise gone, yet there is a young tree planted in its place, but whether it blows, as the old one did, or, indeed, whether it was raised from the old one, I cannot tell.</span> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.glastonburyantiquarians.org/site/index.php?page_id=219">[29]</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Alansplodge" title="User:Alansplodge">Alansplodge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alansplodge" title="User talk:Alansplodge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Alansplodge-20250201112400-Lambiam-20250201095700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:24, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Alansplodge-20250201112400-Lambiam-20250201095700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Alansplodge-20250201112400-Lambiam-20250201095700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="February_1" data-mw-thread-id="h-February_1-20250201193100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-February_1-20250201193100"></span>February 1<span data-mw-comment-end="h-February_1-20250201193100"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=40" title="Edit section: February 1"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Outback_SA_bus_routes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Outback_SA_bus_routes-February_1-20250201193100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Outback_SA_bus_routes-February_1-20250201193100"></span>Outback SA bus routes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Outback_SA_bus_routes-February_1-20250201193100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=41" title="Edit section: Outback SA bus routes"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nyttend-20250201193100-Outback_SA_bus_routes"></span>Ten years ago, some pranksters <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2015-08-19/maccas-sign-tourism/6707692">put a McDonald's "coming soon" sign</a> at a bus stop along the <a href="/wiki/Birdsville_Track" title="Birdsville Track">Birdsville Track</a>, 700 km north of Port Augusta in remote far northern South Australia. In such an isolated region, far from population centres big enough for normal public transport, what buses have ever provided service, and why? Greyhound Australia's <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.greyhound.com.au/company/network-map">network map</a> shows a route along the <a href="/wiki/Stuart_Highway" title="Stuart Highway">Stuart Highway</a> to the west, but nothing else in SA. Blue Bus Tours <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://bluebustours.com.au/blue-bus-tours-birdsville-track-2024">offers a trip</a> on the Birdsville Track that includes this location (apparently within the boundaries of the <a href="/wiki/Clifton_Hills_Station" title="Clifton Hills Station">Clifton Hills Station</a>), but it's a luxury tour route charging thousands of dollars for a two-week loop trip starting and ending in Brisbane, not something you'd just board to go somewhere. <a href="/wiki/User:Nyttend" title="User:Nyttend">Nyttend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nyttend" title="User talk:Nyttend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Nyttend-20250201193100-Outback_SA_bus_routes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:31, 1 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nyttend-20250201193100-Outback_SA_bus_routes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nyttend-20250201193100-Outback_SA_bus_routes"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Khajidha-20250202003300-Nyttend-20250201193100"></span>I don't know about Australia, but here in Hickory, NC, USA, we have dedicated pickup/drop off locations for Greyhound bus services that are not actual bus depots. Some have ticket purchasing available at the site or you can purchase online. While there may not be regular lines to these locations, they are where travellers will arrive and depart in town. Perhaps this is something similar, a dedicated spot for buses when one is needed. --<a href="/wiki/User:Khajidha" title="User:Khajidha">User:Khajidha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Khajidha" title="User talk:Khajidha">talk</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Khajidha" title="Special:Contributions/Khajidha">contributions</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Khajidha-20250202003300-Nyttend-20250201193100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:33, 2 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Khajidha-20250202003300-Nyttend-20250201193100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Khajidha-20250202003300-Nyttend-20250201193100"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-HiLo48-20250202004500-Khajidha-20250202003300"></span>Commercial buses in outback SA stick to bitumen/paved/asphalt/tarmac roads. (Hope I've covered enough versions of English there!) That rules out the Birdsville Track. In fact the only north-south route it includes IS the Stuart Highway. For east-west routes there is only the Eyre Highway, heading towards Perth. <a href="/wiki/User:HiLo48" title="User:HiLo48">HiLo48</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:HiLo48" title="User talk:HiLo48">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-HiLo48-20250202004500-Khajidha-20250202003300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:45, 2 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-HiLo48-20250202004500-Khajidha-20250202003300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-HiLo48-20250202004500-Khajidha-20250202003300"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lambiam-20250202073200-Nyttend-20250201193100"></span>Note that the only mention of a "bus stop" is by the owner of the Mungerannie Hotel, where the sign was relocated. He is quoted as saying, "I always though the bar at the pub was the most photographed item that we had here, but no, everybody wants to take a picture of my bus stop with a Maccas sign next to it." Perhaps we should interpret this as a bus stop "coming soon" at his hotel. ‑‑<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lambiam#top" title="User talk:Lambiam">Lambiam</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Lambiam-20250202073200-Nyttend-20250201193100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:32, 2 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lambiam-20250202073200-Nyttend-20250201193100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lambiam-20250202073200-Nyttend-20250201193100"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="February_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-February_2-20250202054400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-February_2-20250202054400"></span>February 2<span data-mw-comment-end="h-February_2-20250202054400"></span></h1><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=42" title="Edit section: February 2"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA" data-mw-thread-id="h-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA-February_2-20250202054400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA-February_2-20250202054400"></span>How can Trump impose tariff on Canada when it is part of NAFTA<span data-mw-comment-end="h-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA-February_2-20250202054400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&action=edit&section=43" title="Edit section: How can Trump impose tariff on Canada when it is part of NAFTA"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ohanian-20250202054400-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA"></span>How can Trump impose tariff on Canada when both countries are part of NAFTA? <a href="/wiki/User:Ohanian" title="User:Ohanian">Ohanian</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ohanian" title="User talk:Ohanian">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Ohanian-20250202054400-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:44, 2 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ohanian-20250202054400-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ohanian-20250202054400-How_can_Trump_impose_tariff_on_Canada_when_it_is_part_of_NAFTA"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Clarityfiend-20250202063700-Ohanian-20250202054400"></span>The <a href="/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement" title="North American Free Trade Agreement">North American Free Trade Agreement</a> was replaced on July 1, 2020. <a href="/wiki/User:Clarityfiend" title="User:Clarityfiend">Clarityfiend</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clarityfiend" title="User talk:Clarityfiend">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Clarityfiend-20250202063700-Ohanian-20250202054400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:37, 2 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Clarityfiend-20250202063700-Ohanian-20250202054400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Clarityfiend-20250202063700-Ohanian-20250202054400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Xuxl-20250202112000-Clarityfiend-20250202063700"></span>He is using authority provided to him through a national security exemption under the <a href="/wiki/International_Emergency_Economic_Powers_Act" title="International Emergency Economic Powers Act">International Emergency Economic Powers Act</a>, 50 U.S.C. 1701, et seq. (“IEEPA”) , claiming the U.S. is threatened by illegal immigration and drugs. See <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/experts-react-trump-just-slapped-tariffs-on-mexico-canada-and-china-whats-next/">here</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.clearytradewatch.com/2025/01/trump-tariffs-whats-happened-whats-potentially-coming-and-how-to-prepare/">here</a> for example for more details. Of course, anyone who believes Canada poses a security threat to the U.S. is nuts (editorial comment). <a href="/wiki/User:Xuxl" title="User:Xuxl">Xuxl</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xuxl" title="User talk:Xuxl">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Xuxl-20250202112000-Clarityfiend-20250202063700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:20, 2 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Xuxl-20250202112000-Clarityfiend-20250202063700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Xuxl-20250202112000-Clarityfiend-20250202063700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250202180100-Xuxl-20250202112000"></span>A number of Americans are able to get prescription drugs from Canada at lower prices than in the US. Might this be part of Trump's motivation? ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#c-Baseball_Bugs-20250202180100-Xuxl-20250202112000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 2 February 2025 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250202180100-Xuxl-20250202112000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-20250202180100-Xuxl-20250202112000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&oldid=1273513575">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities&oldid=1273513575</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_resources_for_researchers" title="Category:Wikipedia resources for researchers">Wikipedia resources for researchers</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help_forums" title="Category:Wikipedia help forums">Wikipedia help forums</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_reference_desk" title="Category:Wikipedia reference desk">Wikipedia reference desk</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_automatically_checked_for_incorrect_links" title="Category:Pages automatically checked for incorrect links">Pages automatically checked for incorrect links</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_help_pages_with_dated_sections" title="Category:Wikipedia help pages with dated sections">Wikipedia help pages with dated sections</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Non-talk_pages_that_are_automatically_signed" title="Category:Non-talk pages that are automatically signed">Non-talk pages that are automatically signed</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 2 February 2025, at 18:01<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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