Is It Time To Throw Out 'Primordial Soup' Theory?

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Biochemist Nick Lane thinks so. The University College London writer and his colleagues argue that the 81-year-old notion just doesn't hold water.</span> </p> <div class="news-details "> <ul class="inline-share-actions"> <li><a id="email" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118/mailto:/?subject=Digg%20Story%3A%20Is%20It%20Time%20To%20Throw%20Out%20%27Primordial%20Soup%27%20Theory%3F&body=I%20wanted%20to%20share%20this%20story%20with%20you%3A%20http%3A%2F%2Fdigg.com%2Fd31I4y5%3Fe%0D%0A%20---%20%0D%0A%22Is%20It%20Time%20To%20Throw%20Out%20%27Primordial%20Soup%27%20Theory%3F%22%0D%0AA%20group%20of%20scientists%20says%20the%20idea%20that%20life%20emerged%20from%20a%20prebiotic%20broth%20is%20past%20its%20expiration%20date.%0D%0A%0D%0ABiochemist%20Nick%20Lane%20thinks%20so.%20The%20University%20College%20London%20writer%20and%20his%20colleagues%20argue%20that%20the%2081-year-old%20notion%20just%20doesn%27t%20hold%20water.%0D%0A%2B782%20people%20dugg%20this%20story.">email this story</a></li> <li><a id="facebook" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118/http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?src=bm&v=4&i=1233878112&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdigg.com%2Fd31I4y5%3Ff&t=Is+It+Time+To+Throw+Out+%27Primordial+Soup%27+Theory%3F" target="_blank">share this story on facebook</a></li> <li><a id="twitter" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118/http://twitter.com/home?status=Is+It+Time+To+Throw+Out+%27Primordial+Soup%27+Theory%3F%3A+http%3A%2F%2Fdigg.com%2Fd31I4y5%3Ft&source=Digg" target="_blank">tweet this story</a></li> </ul> <div id="bury-tool_1" class="bury tool"> <a href="#" class="bury-link" id="bury-link_19085341">Bury</a> </div> <a class="tool whoduggthis" href="/web/20100211125118/http://digg.com/general_sciences/Is_It_Time_To_Throw_Out_Primordial_Soup_Theory/who">Who dugg this?</a> <span class="tool made-popular">Made popular <span class="d">3 days ago</span></span> </div> </div> <div class="tool user-info"> <a href="/web/20100211125118/http://digg.com/users/badqat" class="avatar"> <img src="/web/20100211125118im_/http://digg.com/users/badqat/l.png" alt="badqat" width="48" height="48" class="user-photo"/> </a> <span class="friend"><a class="add-friend" id="addFriend-2287629"><img src="/web/20100211125118im_/http://digg.com/img/election-add-friend.gif" alt="Add a friend"/></a></span> <span class="friend" style="display: none"><a class="rem-friend" id="remFriend-2287629"><img src="/web/20100211125118im_/http://digg.com/img/election-remove-friend.gif" alt="Remove a friend"/></a></span> <span class="user-info-text"> <h2>submitted by</h2> <a rel="dc:creator" href="/web/20100211125118/http://digg.com/users/badqat"> badqat </a> <span property="dc:date" content="2010-02-07 21:33:36">3 days ago</span> </span> </div> <ul class="news-digg"> <li class="digg-count" id="main1"> <span id="diggs1"><strong id="diggs-strong-1" property="review:totalVotes">782</strong> diggs</span> </li> <li class="digg-it thumbs-up" id="diglink1"> <a href="/web/20100211125118/http://digg.com/login" onclick="return(poppd(1, this))" id="diggit-19085341">digg</a> </li> </ul> </div> </div></div></div> <script type="text/javascript" charset="utf-8"> $(document).trigger('permaLinkTitleLoaded'); </script> <div class="corpus-contents"><div class="corpus-wrapper"><div class="permalink-wrap"> <div class="sidebar"> <div class="ad uprrail1"> <iframe src="/web/20100211125118if_/http://digg.com/ad/uprrail1" width="300" height="250" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" hspace="0" vspace="0" onload="autoIframe('ad-uprrail1');" id="ad-uprrail1"> <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118/http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/dgg.scie/gene_pl_uprrail1;media=news;st=19085341;kw=prebiotic;kw=biochemist;kw=primordial;kw=expiration;kw=broth;kw=81;kw=argue;kw=notion;kw=colleagues;kw=lane;scat=gene;ptype=pl;pos=uprrail1;sz=300x250,300x600;tile=2;ord=1265892677.47129"> <img src="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118im_/http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/dgg.scie/gene_pl_uprrail1;media=news;st=19085341;kw=prebiotic;kw=biochemist;kw=primordial;kw=expiration;kw=broth;kw=81;kw=argue;kw=notion;kw=colleagues;kw=lane;scat=gene;ptype=pl;pos=uprrail1;sz=300x250,300x600;tile=2;ord=1265892677.47129"/> </a> </iframe> </div><div class="what-is-digg side-container"> <h2><img width="80" height="77" alt="Digg Dude" src="/web/20100211125118im_/http://digg.com/img/digg-guy-large.gif"/>What is Digg?</h2> <p>Digg is a place for people to discover and share content from anywhere on the web. 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The atoms that make up the Earth, life and everything used to be part of a star. There was a time where there was no Earth for life to exist on nor a sun for it orbit. A one point there was no life. And then there was.<br/>Sounds like a beginning to me. </span></li><li class="l2" id="c30906409">tcquad, <a href="?t=30906076#c30906409">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+49<span>God makes Triangle Man.<br/>They have a fight, Triangle wins.<br/>Triangle Man.<br/><br/>*accordion solo*!<br/></span></li><li class="l0" id="c30905910">Alabaster1234, <a href="?t=30905910#c30905910">on 02/08/2010</a>, -3/+49<span>Reading these kinds of articles makes me sit in awe at the gigantic wonder of life.<br/><br/>I wouldn't call myself a spiritual person (I'm about the polar opposite of the scale) but the sheer volume of steps that had to fall into place so that I could sit here and type this comment is mind boggling.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30906727">drstock, <a href="?t=30906076#c30906727">on 02/08/2010</a>, -2/+35<span>Evolution creates man.<br/>Man trolls digg.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30906231">HotLeper, <a href="?t=30906076#c30906231">on 02/08/2010</a>, -4/+37<span>Man made god.<br/>God kills man.</span></li><li class="l0" id="c30905807">SpazAttack5000, <a href="?t=30905807#c30905807">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+33<span>It is also quite possible that life could have been formed by separate processes in different places. It makes perfect sense however that life would have began deep in the oceans as they were inhabitable long before land was. I really don't have anything valuable to add to this discussion.</span></li><li class="l0" id="c30900779">PoliticalMan922, <a href="?t=30900779#c30900779">on 02/07/2010</a>, -7/+39<span>It's definitely an outdated theory. I'd love to see the actual paper Lane wrote so I could get a better idea of how all this works. Nice sub. :)</span></li><li class="l0" id="c30903778">earthtones, <a href="?t=30903778#c30903778">on 02/08/2010</a>, -6/+31<span>I like primordial soup with oyster crackers.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30907046">tresbizarre, <a href="?t=30906076#c30907046">on 02/08/2010</a>, -2/+27<span>"God created man in his own image. And man, being a gentleman, returned the favor."<br/>-- Rousseau</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30906452">lolcoelacanth, <a href="?t=30906180#c30906452">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+25<span>Did you even read the article? The man is arguing for a different abiogenesis model.</span></li><li class="l0" id="c30906687">elmuerte17, <a href="?t=30906687#c30906687">on 02/08/2010</a>, -17/+39<span>One day, scientists successfully created life in a laboratory. They went to God and said, "We've created life! We don't need you any more!"<br/>God replied, "Show me." So the scientists began piling up some soil, at which point God said, "Hey! Get your own dirt."</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30914016">designerutah, <a href="?t=30909294#c30914016">on 02/08/2010</a>, -2/+24<span>Hahahahaha.. that's some funny... oh, wait. <br/><br/>You're serious? Ouch!</span></li><li class="l0" id="c30905763">Wreckage, <a href="?t=30905763#c30905763">on 02/08/2010</a>, -5/+26<span>I prefer the terms Primoridal Stout or Primordial Pale Ale. </span></li><li class="l1" id="c30905964">bonofosho, <a href="?t=30905807#c30905964">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+20<span>but that didnt stop you did it haha</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30907488">Syujinkou, <a href="?t=30906180#c30907488">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+19<span>You do realize abiogenesis and evolution are two different scientific theories, right?</span></li><li class="l0" id="c30905808">Anub1s, <a href="?t=30905808#c30905808">on 02/08/2010</a>, -25/+44<span>As long as the alternative theory doesn't involve an invisible man in the sky, I'm all for it.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30906446">counterargument, <a href="?t=30905979#c30906446">on 02/08/2010</a>, -3/+21<span>There's no short answer to your first question. There are several competing theories at the moment. There's a list here: <a class="user" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_multicellularity" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_multicel ...</a><br/><br/>Your second question "why haven't we seen life created in a lab?" has several components. Scientists have long avoided experimenting with creating life due to religious opposition and the moral dilemmas that have no clear answers. Since most scientists haven't been trying to do this, they also don't leave random mixtures of chemicals around in the hopes in might happen. Lastly, science has only gotten close to the fundamentals of life in the last couple hundred years. The Earth had 4.5 billion years to get it right, so give the scientists some time...<br/><br/>Your next statement seems to argue that 'intelligence' is an all or nothing quality, but people have different levels of intelligence, and different animal species do too. So where are you drawing the line? Human / non-human? Everything vertebrate? Everything animal?<br/><br/>Your final comment missed a key point about evolution. There's no coincidence involved. Every step is a battle, won by the organism with the advantage (in a given environment). If "higher order life" qualities are advantageous, then they develop, one quality at a time (and maybe get wiped out, and develop elsewhere again). In a numbers game 4.5 billion years, and species that spawn with a frequency from days to years, that's time enough for an awful lot of 'coincidence'. Roll a die three times, and see if you get three 1s in a row. Now, roll it 4.5 billion times, and see if you ever get three 1s in a row...<br/></span></li><li class="l1" id="c30907627">fissiongrubbs, <a href="?t=30907043#c30907627">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+18<span>Cheez wiz is much too complicated to be made by man. How do they put it in the cans? Only a spirit creator could possibly have designed Cheez wiz.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30907020">Crossmenjeff, <a href="?t=30906083#c30907020">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+16<span>you know putting those two on the same level only devalues what would otherwise be considered progress of intellectual thought.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30906619">Zarokima, <a href="?t=30905910#c30906619">on 02/08/2010</a>, -8/+24<span>It's not entirely random. Once life pops up, evolution takes its course. The wonder of nature is amazing, but it's not random.<br/><br/>This video is a bit heavy-handed, but it demonstrates how evolution works very well.<br/><a class="user" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118/http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeTssvexa9s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeTssvexa9s</a></span></li><li class="l1" id="c30907127">Kordox3, <a href="?t=30907043#c30907127">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+17<span>Who said anything about chance?</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30905750">AlanCayce, <a href="?t=30902777#c30905750">on 02/08/2010</a>, -2/+17<span>I love my science. But I cant comprehend no beginning. <br/><br/>And now that im thinking about it....... its a conundrum.<br/>Even if there was a creation point, there would have to be a creation of the creation point?<br/>That hurts my head.. </span></li><li class="l1" id="c30906672">elmuerte17, <a href="?t=30906583#c30906672">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+16<span>Which still dodges the original question of how it started. </span></li><li class="l1" id="c30906098">Stirk, <a href="?t=30905723#c30906098">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+14<span>Life may have started more than once, but there is a lot evidence to suggest that only one of those lineages survived and became the common ancestor to all current life. The most glaring evidence is that the genetic code is the same for all organisms we've studied. By that I mean the same sequence of bases in a *NA molecule codes for the same amino acid no matter the organism. There is little chance that this would be the case if current life had several original ancestors.<br/><br/></span></li><li class="l0" id="c30905974">todd.cole, <a href="?t=30905974#c30905974">on 02/08/2010</a>, -5/+19<span>On one hand, I'm glad that we may be getting closer to discovering how life began, but on the other hand, it makes me sad that my favorite episode of Cosmos, One Voice in the Cosmic Fugue, is getting less and less accurate. I could get over the fact that the Heike Crabs probably didn't come about the way Sagan so beautifully described (I can't find the journal that disputes has hypothesis at the moment though or I'd link it), but this would negate the bulk of the episode. <br/><br/>I think I'll make peace with it by celebrating the fact that modern research is getting closer to the truth, even if does crush something I hold dear in the process. I mean *****, if we all held on to refuted theories simply because we liked them or how they were presented, we wouldn't be doing humanity any service. All said though, Carl Sagan continues, even in death, to be ***** awesome. </span></li><li class="l1" id="c30904237">wrathchilde, <a href="?t=30900779#c30904237">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+14<span>Try his book, Life Ascending, your library has it. Here's a review:<br/><a class="user" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118/http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227041.700-review-life-ascending-by-nick-lane.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227041.700 ...</a><br/></span></li><li class="l2" id="c30905880">BotchaMcCoola, <a href="?t=30902777#c30905880">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+12<span>Kind of like everythign being created by a god with divine majic. But then the mystery instantly shifts to how such a god came into existence. And nothing achieved. I am cutting through all that.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30918401">awtripp, <a href="?t=30909294#c30918401">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+12<span>"The Bible is not a science book, yet it is scientifically accurate. We are not aware of any scientific evidence that contradicts the Bible." -- opening line on that website.<br/><br/>You lost me right there. That statement is illogical and only hurts your cause. Whether you want to call it a "Bare Assertion fallacy", "Argument from Ignorance" or whatever. <br/><a class="user" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20100211125118/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies</a><br/></span></li><li class="l1" id="c30905906">phiIIips, <a href="?t=30905858#c30905906">on 02/08/2010</a>, -4/+15<span>Seasons don't fear the reaper.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30905950">truebeliever83, <a href="?t=30905858#c30905950">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+12<span>Is it time for another galactic extinction?</span></li><li class="l2" id="c30916880">Frostek, <a href="?t=30906687#c30916880">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+11<span>Hardly surprising - considering "evolutionist" isn't even a valid term.<br/><br/>(I still dug up the joke though.)</span></li><li class="l2" id="c30906615">depro9, <a href="?t=30906258#c30906615">on 02/08/2010</a>, -3/+14<span>Yes, he also made zombies. </span></li><li class="l1" id="c30906560">NickF123, <a href="?t=30900779#c30906560">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+12<span>please elaborate, how is it "definitely an outdated theory"?</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30916666">Gumbos, <a href="?t=30909294#c30916666">on 02/08/2010</a>, -2/+13<span>You obviously didn't read the article. If you did, you didn't understand it.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30907942">jumbalia, <a href="?t=30907682#c30907942">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+11<span>Change is the great thing about science; change is was creates progress.<br/>And you're right, scientists don't have all the answers to everything and much of the origins of life are still a mystery, but I'd rather admit uncertainty than blindly believe the much translated, metaphorical, ambiguous stories of a bunch of men who believed that cutting off the tip of ur penis was necessary to go somewhere nice after you die.<br/><br/>Or any of the other thousands of the past or present creation stories that people hold.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30916949">milkmit, <a href="?t=30909294#c30916949">on 02/08/2010</a>, -2/+12<span>*points and laughs at the silly man stuck in the wrong century*</span></li><li class="l2" id="c30906326">Stirk, <a href="?t=30905723#c30906326">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+10<span>All I can say is that it would be very awesome to find life from a different ancestor because of what it would hopefully reveal about early Earth. Also, studying an alternate lineage of life could give us clues about the conditions necessary for life on other planets (which I would kill to find).<br/></span></li><li class="l0" id="c30907319">Draje, <a href="?t=30907319#c30907319">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+10<span>Campbell's Chunky Primordial Soup.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30918591">otakushark, <a href="?t=30909294#c30918591">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+11<span>Shouldn't you be out killing people who work on Sunday, as stated in Exodus 31:15?</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30913324">ariez84, <a href="?t=30900779#c30913324">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+10<span>Out dated theory? A good theory doesnt have an expiration date. The premordial soup theory still have a ton of evidence and laboratory experiments to back its claim. The thermal vents theory is relatively new and only came about when extremephiles were discovered. Both of these seem very solid and both are in fact very similar. </span></li><li class="l1" id="c30907476">Syujinkou, <a href="?t=30906076#c30907476">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+10<span>What no Jurassic Park quote?</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30905885">Anub1s, <a href="?t=30905697#c30905885">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+9<span>Hey douche, get the ***** out and ***** off.</span></li><li class="l0" id="c30911800">4NDr01D, <a href="?t=30911800#c30911800">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+10<span>NO SOUP FOR YOU !!! </span></li><li class="l1" id="c30912490">jasonsbytes, <a href="?t=30906687#c30912490">on 02/08/2010</a>, -2/+11<span>...get your own TIME and SPACE too! </span></li><li class="l2" id="c30908268">lolcoelacanth, <a href="?t=30906180#c30908268">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+9<span>Yes, but "evolutionists" is a term commonly used by creationists to denote a rational thinker.</span></li><li class="l2" id="c30906684">Anub1s, <a href="?t=30905858#c30906684">on 02/08/2010</a>, -1/+10<span>Nor do the wind, the sun, or the rain.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30908107">captspaulding, <a href="?t=30906083#c30908107">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+8<span>One tried to use all our knowledge of chemistry and the condition on earth long long ago. The other says a magical being whipped this all up. The two couldn't be more different.</span></li><li class="l1" id="c30908267">jda2002, <a href="?t=30906802#c30908267">on 02/08/2010</a>, -0/+8<span>I saw that Movie, Laurence Fishburne Rules!</span></li><li class="c-overflow"> <div class="show-more"><img src="/web/20100211125118im_/http://digg.com/img/c-spinner.gif" alt="Fetching more discussions..."/></div> <a class="show-more">Show <span id="c-offset">51</span> - <span id="c-count">100</span> of <span id="c-total">317</span> discussions</a> </li><li class="c-reply-main"> <h3>Add a Comment</h3> <div id="comment-reply"> <form action="#"> <div class="textarea"> <a href="/web/20100211125118/http://digg.com/login">Login</a> or <a href="/web/20100211125118/http://digg.com/register">register</a> to comment!<br/>Or, sign-in super fast with your Facebook account ...<br/> <a class="loginFBButton"><img src="/web/20100211125118im_/http://digg.com/img/login-fb-connect.gif" width="195" height="26"></a> <script type="text/javascript">$(document).trigger('loginFBButtonLoaded');</script></div> <input type="submit" disabled="disabled" value="Submit Comment"/> </form> </div> </li></ul></div><script type="text/javascript"> $('.dialogable').click(function() { var action = '{ "userMessage" : "Thanks for logging in. 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Is It Time To Throw Out 'Primordial Soup' Theory?