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}); </script> </div> <div id="content" class="narrow_content" data-article="20806"> <div id="article_top" class="summary_details">  <div class="sd_top"> <script type="text/javascript">// <![CDATA[ var mobile = (/iphone|ipad|ipod|android|blackberry|mini|windows\sce|palm/i.test(navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase())); if (mobile) { var mob_link = "<img src='https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/cellphone.png'/><a id='article_mobile_link' class='small' href='https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813/http://m.gizmag.com/article/20806'>View on mobile site</a>"; $jqr('.sd_top').append(mob_link); } // ]]></script> <a class="small" href="/web/20120119141813/http://www.gizmag.com/military/" style="float: left; ">MILITARY</a> </div> <h2>"Holey" bullets claimed to go faster</h2> <div class="summary_details_left"> <p>By <a href="/web/20120119141813/http://www.gizmag.com/author/ben-coxworth/" rel="author">Ben Coxworth</a></p> <p><em>15:49 December 9, 2011</em></p> </div> <div class="summary_details_right"> <p><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comments.png" alt=""/> <a href="#comments">42 Comments</a> </p> <p><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/image_modernist.png" alt=""/> <a href="/web/20120119141813/http://www.gizmag.com/compbullets-faster-with-vents/20806/picture/150623/">2 Pictures</a></p> </div> </div> <div id="hero_box" style="width: 529px;"> <a id="hero_link" href="/web/20120119141813/http://www.gizmag.com/compbullets-faster-with-vents/20806/picture/150623/"> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/hero/compbullets.jpg" title="CompBullets are claimed to go faster than regular bullets, due to vents that have been mac..." width="529" height="298" alt="CompBullets are claimed to go faster than regular bullets, due to vents that have been mac..." border="0"/></a><div class="pic_caption"> <p>CompBullets are claimed to go faster than regular bullets, due to vents that have been machined into their sides</p> <strong><a href="/web/20120119141813/http://www.gizmag.com/compbullets-faster-with-vents/20806/picture/150623/" class="orange">Image Gallery</a> (2 images)</strong> </div> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div class="article_body"> <div id="top_unit"></div> <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> </script> <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813js_/http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js"></script> <p>Competition shooters like their bullets to fly as fast (and thus straight) as possible, and they try to keep recoil to a minimum. Italian ammunition-maker CompBullet produces a series of bullets of the same name, which are claimed to both go faster than normal ammo, and produce less recoil. The secret? The bullets have go-faster holes in them.</p> <p>Available in several calibers, the copper alloy bullets have a main cavity in the base, with multiple "vents" machined into their sides. These reportedly serve several purposes.</p> <p>First of all, when the gun is fired, the vents supposedly allow the propellant gases to go through the sides of the bullet, providing lubrication between it and the inside of the gun's barrel.</p> <p><div style="width: 530px; height: 436px" class="article_img"><a href="/web/20120119141813/http://www.gizmag.com/compbullets-faster-with-vents/20806/picture/150623/" target="_blank"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/inline/compbullets-0.jpg" width="530"/></a></div></p> <p>As the bullet exits the gun, the gases symmetrically shoot sideways out of the vents. This - so we're told - creates a "muzzle brake" effect. A muzzle brake is a device fitted to the end of a gun's barrel, that redirects the gases as they leave the gun, to offset the recoil effect. The vents in the CompBullets apparently serve the same purpose.</p> <p>At the same time, the gases shooting out of the vents are also said to create a rocket-like effect, increasing the bullet's velocity. All of you physicists are welcome to weigh in on this one, but it's hard to say if gases exiting the sides of a bullet would really cause it to travel any faster than gases that were limited to pushing on it from behind.</p> <p>Additionally, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813/http://www.compbullet.com/" target="_blank">CompBullets</a> are claimed to produce less muzzle flash and less smoke. If nothing else, all those holes probably make them lighter than regular bullets, to boot.</p> <p>Source: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813/http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/12/06/bullet-compensator-compbullet/" target="_blank">The Firearm Blog</a></p>  <div id="bottom_unit"> <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript"> </script> <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813js_/http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js"></script> </div> </div>  <span class="title">Share</span> <div id="article_share" class="dotsontop"> <span class="as_button"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813/http://twitter.com/share" class="twitter-share-button" data-count="horizontal" data-via="gizmag">Tweet</a><script type="text/javascript" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813js_/http://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> twttr.events.bind('tweet', function(event) { if (event) { var targetUrl; if (event.target && event.target.nodeName == 'IFRAME') { targetUrl = extractParamFromUri(event.target.src, 'url'); } _gaq.push(['_trackSocial', 'twitter', 'tweet', targetUrl]); } }); twttr.events.bind('retweet', function(){ var targetUrl; if (event.target && event.target.nodeName == 'IFRAME') { targetUrl = extractParamFromUri(event.target.src, 'url'); } _gaq.push(['_trackSocial', 'twitter', 'retweet', targetUrl]); }); function extractParamFromUri(uri, paramName){ if(!uri){ return; } var uri = uri.split('#')[0]; //remove anchor var parts = uri.split('?'); //check for query params if(parts.length == 1){ return; //no params } var query = decodeURI(parts[1]); //find the url param paramName += '='; var params = query.split('&'); for(var i = 0, param; param = params[i]; ++i){ if(param.indexOf(paramName) === 0){ return unescape(param.split('=')[1]); } } } </script> </span> <span class="as_button"><script src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813js_/http://www.stumbleupon.com/hostedbadge.php?s=1"></script></span> <span class="as_button"><g:plusone size="medium" count="true" href="http://www.gizmag.com/compbullets-faster-with-vents/20806/"></g:plusone></span> <span class="as_button"><script type="text/javascript" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813js_/http://platform.linkedin.com/in.js"></script><script type="in/share" data-counter="right"></script></span> <span class="as_button"><script type="text/javascript">reddit_newwindow='1'</script><script type="text/javascript" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813js_/http://www.reddit.com/static/button/button1.js"></script></span> <fb:like href="http://www.gizmag.com/compbullets-faster-with-vents/20806/" send="false" width="450" show_faces="false" font="" id="facebook_like"></fb:like><script type="text/javascript">_ga.trackFacebook();</script> </div>   <div id="tags"> <span class="title">Tags</span> <div class="dotsontop"> <ul> <li>» <a href="/web/20120119141813/http://www.gizmag.com/tag/bullet/" rel="tag">Bullet</a></li> <li class="clear_both"></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="bing_unit"></div>  <span class="title" id="comments">User Comments (42)</span> <div class="dotsontop" id="comment_dots">  <div id="comment-96145" class="a_comment"> <p>Initially I thought this might e related to vacuum drag in artillery shells. </p> <p></p> <p>While those big shells use a slow burning powder charge to generate a large amount of gas, I've thought they may also channel air from the front of the shell to the rear. </p> <p></p> <p><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_bleed">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_bleed</a> </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Wombat56</span> <span class="date">- December 9, 2011 @ 04:26 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96163" class="a_comment"> <p>Found a few more holes in this theory. First, a lighter bullet is actually a bad thing when it comes to actually shooting something because it loses energy quicker. Second, there is no way the flow of gases would be symmetrical exiting those holes as a "muzzle brake". Any bit of extra or less gas coming out of one of those holes would dramatically throw the bullet off of its path. And this is supposed to be a competition shooter? Third hole in the theory: with match grade ammunition and lightweight, supposedly faster, bullet there would absolutely not be enough time for the bullet to be its own muzzle break. If what they said about the reduced friction is true then a 7.62x51mm version of this would travel 2500-2750 feet per second. Way too fast, especially considering the bullet is only in the spot to do that for roughly a quarter inch. </p> <p>Once in the air though, there is a chance that the holes could augment the boat-tailing effect. Or it could kill it completely by making vortexes in the holes, creating drag. </p> <p>Still nice to see innovation in the firearms world, hope they keep it up. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Ethan Brush</span> <span class="date">- December 9, 2011 @ 05:28 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96172" class="a_comment"> <p>That statement of, "At the same time, the gases shooting out of the vents are also said to create a rocketlike effect, increasing the bullet's velocity." makes absolutely no sense. </p> <p></p> <p>The only time powder gases are pushing on the base of the bullet is when it's in the bore where we would find the holes blocked. Once the bullet exits the muzzle then a low pressure area is created at the tail of the bullet but there are no gases to create your rocketlike effect. You shouldn't need a physicist to tell you that. </p> <p></p> <p>In free-flight, there is the possibility that the low pressure area at the base will cause the small side holes to suck away the drag producing boundary layer air as well as serve as a base bleed to further reduce drag but I'd have to see proof of that. </p> <p></p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">John Simpson</span> <span class="date">- December 9, 2011 @ 06:00 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96202" class="a_comment"> <p>Ethan Brush please keep the following in mind: </p> <p></p> <p>A heavier projectile has greater surface area and therefore is more likely to be affected by a crosswind (windage) which would put it off target. Remember this is NOT about killing something its about putting holes in paper therefore loss of energy due to being lighter is not a problem - paper is not that strong. </p> <p></p> <p>Flow of gases exiting a cartridge is symmetrical providing the holes are CNC machined to be exact and providing the firearm is NOT damaged, this is a simple principle of pipe design and flow - relearn your physics, your thermodynamics and fluid mechanics. The hole in the base of the projectile is centered with the main axis of the projectile therefore the flow of gases WILL be symetrical. </p> <p></p> <p>Since when was 2500-2750 feet per second way to fast for a projectile. 2700fps is a very common speed for centrefire ammunition. Most competition shooters aim to get as high a velocity as possible as it flattens the trajectory which in turn increases accuracy. </p> <p></p> <p></p> <p>John Simpson please understand this: </p> <p>Whilst in the firearm the holes in the projectile will NOT always be against the inside walls of the barrel, you forget that firearms have a thing know as rifling which is cut into the barrel so that the lands of the rifling are the only thing that touch the projectile, therefore there is space for the gases to escape in the barrel which will allow a muzzlebreak affect as the angle of the holes woulde vent the gas back towards the casing in the chamber of the firearm thus reducing the felt recoil. </p> <p></p> <p>Overall you guys commenting on this article have NO IDEA of exactly what happens inside a firearm. Feel free to check what I've written here and provide sources that contradict the well know facts of Ballistics and Firearms Design. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Matt Nirenberg</span> <span class="date">- December 9, 2011 @ 10:02 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96205" class="a_comment"> <p>since you can only shoot someone legally in the state I live in that is 7 meters away that has a weapon, I will stick with the 0.41" flying ashtrays in my gun, only 15 rounds on hand, nice looking bullet, since I only do gun for self protection, worthless for me, hmm perhaps rechamber for 9mm hollow points, 21 rounds with one in the pipe in one mag, hmm, thanks thinking about my carry weapon, and yes I carry non lethal stuff, mace, a green laser and a contact taser , hmm and a knife, just to walk the dog here in Oregon </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Bill Bennett</span> <span class="date">- December 9, 2011 @ 10:06 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96217" class="a_comment"> <p>"uuh those...those are speed holes" </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Alex Mawson</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 12:03 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96220" class="a_comment"> <p>F = MV. Lower mass means higher velocity. These bullets are probably against the Geneva Convention. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">TogetherinParis</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 12:48 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96226" class="a_comment"> <p>Is it possible the holes act like dimples on a golf ball? I recall an episode of myth busters when they covered a car I clay and there was a measurable difference in drag reduction. I don't know the physics, but it may work. I also remember going some cylinder porting on a high performance engine. I was told th make the ports very smooth, but not to polish them. I always wondered if this was true that a polished intake port would cause diminished performance. These were wet ports, so there could been an issue with keeping the fuel suspended and atomized too. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Clint Ferreira</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 04:24 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96232" class="a_comment"> <p>Dents on the surface of the bullet like the ones on a golf ball might reduce the drag </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Muhammad Shono</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 04:57 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96250" class="a_comment"> <p>I did an experiment on this at school... TogetherinParis is almost right... essentially air is less viscous than a bullet... holes mean trapped turbulent flow.. meaning bullet has less drag and goes faster... If it's working the same way that my crude experiment with viscous oils and plasticine. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Paul Hutchinson</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 07:37 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96253" class="a_comment"> <p>@Matt: I'm very familiar with what goes in inside a rifle barrel. My comment (if you paid attention) concerned the notion the original author had that some gases were going to be propelling the bullet downrange. </p> <p></p> <p>That being said, the lands engrave the sides of the bullet sealing the gases while in the barrel </p> <p><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813/http://www.scientificamerican.com/media/inline/000092D9-E9B5-1239-A9B583414B7F0000_1.jpg">http://www.scientificamerican.com/media/inline/000092D9-E9B5-1239-A9B583414B7F0000_1.jpg</a> </p> <p></p> <p>To that end the bore of a .308 Winchester rifle has a diameter of .308 when measured in the grooves but a .300 inch diameter measured from the lands. </p> <p></p> <p><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813/http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/308">http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/308</a> Winchester.pdf </p> <p></p> <p>If as you say these bullets leaked gas ahead of the bullet then that would be a bad thing. </p> <p></p> <p>Also, I fail to find a mention of the holes being drilled on an angle. </p> <p></p> <p>So yeah, in the bore the side holes are blocked. </p> <p></p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">John Simpson</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 07:44 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96256" class="a_comment"> <p>That was a interesting story.. little bit of physics. </p> <p></p> <p></p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Sai Raghavi</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 07:57 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96265" class="a_comment"> <p>@alex mawson - lol my first thought. </p> <p></p> <p>if they energise the boundary layer like vortex generators, golf ball dimples etc, maybe that's good. Since we're talking mach 2.5 plus, I'm not sure if that matters so much - golf balls and aircraft with VGs aren't going that fast. For all the pontificating here, if they work , they work! </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Hogey74</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 09:12 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96277" class="a_comment"> <p>Matt Nirenberg, your understanding of external ballistics is faulty. The ballistic coefficient of a projectile is what determines how much it will be affected by the wind. The higher the BC the less the bullet is affected by the wind. The BC of a bullet is due in large part to its sectional density, its weight in relation to its caliber. When a bullet flies through the air, it is not directly pushed by the wind as the wind does not touch the bullet, rather the wind pushes of the shock wave surrounding the bullet. </p> <p></p> <p>Drilling holes into the bullet reduces its sectional density and thus lessens its BC. But the bullets shown here are pistol bullets so the BC is really not an issue, range is too short. </p> <p></p> <p></p> <p>TogetherInParis: </p> <p>The Geneva Convention has nothing to do with bullets. Perhaps you are thinking of delcaration at The Hague Peace Conference of 1899 and the subsequent Hague Convention IV of 1907 about the use of expanding bullets in warfare. Please verify your statements before posting. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">LR shooter</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 01:15 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96289" class="a_comment"> <p>All of you that posted SUPPOSEDLY knowing about ballistics are incorrect. It is a proven fact that these bullets go faster for two reasons. First, because they are Italian and second because they look cool. The air is so impressed that it gets out of the way and lets the bullet by thereby decreasing drag. Basic physics. </p> <p></p> <p>Whilst your attempts to sound intelligent are a sorely lacking, it is my amazing intellect that makes you all look like children! Please check your facts before posting. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Roderick Bertrand</span> <span class="date">- December 10, 2011 @ 06:20 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96313" class="a_comment"> <p>Under normal circumstances. Two bullets of the same caliber fired from identical cartridges with identical propellent loads from the same gun the lighter one will have a higher muzzle velocity but will also be more affected by aerodynamic forces in route to the target. Given long enough ranges the heavier bullet will take less time to reach the target. Because an expanding object's volume grows at a higher rate than the area bullets of the same density but different sizes the heavier bullet will be less effected by aerodynamic forces. </p> <p></p> <p>This bullet may exploit an interesting but mostly useless phenomenon that a supersonic gas flow exiting through a tapering larger nozzle will speed up. The resulting thrust in this design will be less than the drag but may offset the higher drag to mass ratio and there is some evidence that it might also make the bullet resist the affects of a crosswind. </p> <p></p> <p>But even assuming that the bullet works as advertised the cost of machining prices them out of the market for most usages. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Slowburn</span> <span class="date">- December 11, 2011 @ 01:05 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96349" class="a_comment"> <p>@matt nurenburg: My comment about the fps of the bullet had nothing to do with it being too fast for the bullet itself. It was aimed at how it would be going too fast for the bullet to be a muzzle break (oh yeah, and the holes aren't angled. It would be dumb to anyways, because facing backwards creates suction, drag, and forwards creates a backwards rocket effect as well as a ram air intake friction effect.). The point at which it would be in the position to do so is about a quarter inch long, and that's probably a little generous. .25(ft/12) /2750 f/s. Not enough. Also, no matter how precise you are with a CNC you cannot make the expansion of gases uniform, or force the bullet to perfectly rotate around the axis. The fact that each rifle has a forensics-approved signature carved into the bullet, no matter the quality of the rifle, proves this. We live in an imperfect world. And I'm not done yet, one more point. The mass of the bullet has no direct effect on the effect of windage. A bigger bullet with more mass, yes. But if you have two bullets, same dimensions, different densities (therefore masses), the heavier one has more inertia. More inertia means harder to move, so less effected by windage. The holey bullet simply had its density lowered by having holes in it, with a side effect of having more surface area for the wind to push against. </p> <p>Please refrain from insulting my intelligence. Peace </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Ethan Brush</span> <span class="date">- December 11, 2011 @ 01:50 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96385" class="a_comment"> <p>as per Matt Nirenberg: in ballistics, the RIFLING is needed for a bullet in order to be stable. stability is the most important factor in precision shooting. it can be compromised by making the bullet shoot at a higher speed. in order achieve this higher speed, a bigger amount of firepower is needed thus making the bullet shell bigger. this size is not economical and will be a lot heavier in weight even the argument that the bullet is lighter. the compensated loss in bullet weight is replaced by a much heavier gun powder needed to propel and stabilize the bullet. theoretically, you can make the bullet spin by making the orientation of the holes at an angle. however, this would also need precision metal works in producing the bullet. again, not economical. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">MarvzMartinez</span> <span class="date">- December 11, 2011 @ 07:04 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96412" class="a_comment"> <p>@Bill Bennett, I am really glad I live in South Africa, where I don't need a gun with 9mm hollow points, mace, a green laser and a contact taser and a knife, just to walk the dog. Down here I just take the dog. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Riaanh</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 03:21 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96427" class="a_comment"> <p>"Oh yeah... *speed* holes!" </p> <p></p> <p><br/><iframe class="youtube-player" type="text/html" width="500" height="300" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813if_/http://www.youtube.com/embed/XVV_COOey0E" frameborder="0"> </iframe><br/></p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Adrian Bancilhon</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 05:29 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96445" class="a_comment"> <p>I am amazed at the dogmatic comments of the theorists who say the swiss cheese bullets can't or won't work. Reminds me of the discussion about the airworthiness of heavier than air aircraft a long time ago. </p> <p></p> <p>It is possible that the combination of hot, high speed gasses exiting the holes of a rapidly revolving bullet undergoing a high rate of acceleration might be producing a new phenomenon. </p> <p></p> <p>Seems to me that the sensible thing to do would be to fire some of the bullets, observe whether or not they perform as promised, then begin the discussion. </p> <p></p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">ndrwknght</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 06:26 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96469" class="a_comment"> <p>I can only speak about what I know. Slow powder (black powder) = slow bullet. Fast powder (rifle powder) = faster bullet. If you use pure nitrocellulose it would blow up the gun because of the speed of ignition. The only way to get a faster bullet is to make it aerodynamic along with a sabot for the tight seal. Barrels already have recoil holes for the soft hands. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">donwine</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 08:30 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96472" class="a_comment"> <p>I went to their website. There are no reports, no tests, no photos or anything else. "Claim"? "Supposedly"? And if the company making these claims don't bother to do confirmed testing, why should the buyer have to do so? If they're going to make claims so far out, is it asking too much for at least some sort of proof? Or, perhaps, it's just a bid for attention, common in these days? </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">TheRogue1000</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 08:38 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96475" class="a_comment"> <p>Reminds me of the guys who still think that cold fusion can't work after the Energy Catalyzer has worked multiple times or that building 7 of the WTC was not professionally demolished and dropped like a pancake from an office fire. There is always the potential scam but why would a company make claims it can't backup just to sell a bunch of bullets. Why would they risk their reputation to sell an unknown quantity of ammunition to competition shooters? Doesn't make sence. It's not like the old days when snake oil salesmen could get away for months and years with fooling people. The competition shooters have probably already tested the darn things. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Harry Skip Robinson</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 08:55 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96481" class="a_comment"> <p>The only way to really test all these 'after' theories is to do some practical testing of my own. Time to oil up my drill press and put some well placed dimples on a few bullets and hit the old shooting range. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">YukonJack</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 09:06 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96493" class="a_comment"> <p>All is VERY interesting. This is one that i feel only one person could genuinely contribute a well formed opinion: Dr. Gerald Bull, Space Research Corp, Project HARP, "Baylon Gun", CG45 etc... were he still alive, no thanks to the conspirators that had him assacinated in Belgium. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Mike DuBois</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 09:29 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96499" class="a_comment"> <p>The bullet has less mass due to the holes, so it accelerates at a higher rate in the barrel. F=ma. </p> <p>Secondly, the rocket effect, muzzle braking, lubrication are all BS. </p> <p>Look carefully and you'll see grooves in the flank of the bullet...this minimizes barrel contact area, and being copper, also increases the pressures on the copper to deform at those ridges, reducing friction. </p> <p>The holes serve to reduce mass, particularly the hole down the center axis, which has little effect on the rotational inertia needed for bullet stability, but all holes have the secondary effect of pushing to center of mass forward...in doing so, there is less "wobble" due to a more stable cg/ac relationship. </p> <p>As far as walking the dog in Oregon goes, we have our share of the mentally ill, redneck doomsday arsenal-keepers, and hippies that came up from California, here. What an embarrassment in the world's eye to say you need to carry here, in one of the safest places on the planet (I travel worldwide). If you fear a mountain lion attack, move your paranoid butt to Portland. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">solutions4circuits</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 09:54 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96511" class="a_comment"> <p>If a speedboat and a rowboat cross a river flowing 10mph, and the operators do not try to compensate for the current, the rowboat will be further downstream at the end of the crossing then the speedboat. This illustrates that the objects are part of the medium. In this case the water. The same must be true for bullets in a crosswind. The faster bullet will not be in the moving medium as long as the slower one. The shape or weight of the bullet means nothing as long as the speeds are the same. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">noly747</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 10:16 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96523" class="a_comment"> <p>Talking about recoil, does anyone remember the Cutts Compensator on the Tommy gun?(Don't you just love it?) admittedly this served a different purpose. It had upward facing vents to push the barrel down, which had tended to rise during rapid auto fire. So rearward facing vents in the barrel could act as anti recoil. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">windykites1</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 10:49 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96535" class="a_comment"> <p>I like Roderick's explanation the best :) </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Joe Sobotka</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 12:22 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96547" class="a_comment"> <p>As a shooter of 50+ years I recognise this discussion as typical of shooters - online opportunities have only worsened the level of discussion, which as here tends to be wild and woolly and totally contradictory and moderately insulting. Rather then speculating endlessly about how these may or may not work (and yes 2500 fps is slow not fast) send me a couple of hundred in 308 or 223 or 6.5x55 or even 312 and I'll test them and tell you if they work or don't work. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">stuart.hayman</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 01:46 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96652" class="a_comment"> <p>Absolutely amazing. The amount of misunderstanding I find here. 1. We don't know the actual calibers offered. 2. We don't know the actual weight (in grains) offered in each caliber. 3. We actually don't know the details on the actual ogive (shape(s)) offered in each weight in each caliber. 4. We don't know if they actually are just for target shooting, although "Solids" (except on Big/Dangerous Game projectiles) are usually too penetrating for everything else from woodchucks to elk. (Although there are varying degrees of soft points to solids offered for different calibers that depend on a variety of factors; size of game, average muzzle velocity of the particular caliber, length of average range, et cetera. As a life member of the NRA, I'll make inquiries. Of one thing I'm absolutely certain: They will be declared "Cop Killer" and/or "Armor Piercing" and banned by the Obama-Holder conspiracy. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Myron J. Poltroonian</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 06:46 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96673" class="a_comment"> <p>Holes at 90 degrees to the longitudinal axis of the bullet can't act in any way to accelerate the bullet as propellant gasses exit them in the milliseconds they are clear of the muzzle prior to the base of the bullet exiting the muzzle. </p> <p></p> <p>The holes would have to be angled to the rear to produce any amount of extra thrust. As discovered with the old Gyro-Jet, the machining has to be extremely precise and even or accuracy goes down to the level of throwing rocks. </p> <p></p> <p>What plagued the Gyro-Jet was poor quality control where some of the base crimps partially overlapped the exhaust holes in the base plugs. </p> <p></p> <p>Another often under appreciated effect on bullet ballistics is the impact the propellant gasses have on the bullet during the time it exits the muzzle and is still close enough for the gas to hit. Un-even impact could result in unbalanced flow from the base hole to the side holes. </p> <p></p> <p>One of the major gun magazines (IIRC Guns & Ammo) several years ago tested boattail VS flat base bullets. They tested using the same weights and manufacturers of both types, where the two styles were available with the same profile except for the base. </p> <p></p> <p>The tests found essentially no difference in initial and terminal velocity or trajectory. What they did find was the boattail bullets retained more kinetic energy at the end of their flight. </p> <p></p> <p>I'd expect similar testing of these holey bullets to show the sole reason for their higher speed to be their lower weight, which would be a hindrance to accuracy on a windy target range. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Gregg Eshelman</span> <span class="date">- December 12, 2011 @ 08:16 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96781" class="a_comment"> <p>So..... what kind of whistleing sound does it make as it flies by? Would it annoy the hunting dogs? If you remove all of the metal and just leave the holes, does it then move MUCH faster...? </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">KMH</span> <span class="date">- December 13, 2011 @ 07:56 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96856" class="a_comment"> <p>re; Gregg Eshelman </p> <p></p> <p>At the very least the additional gas path from the side through the core and out the back increases the "boattail effect". </p> <p></p> <p>I think a better design would be to have the front half of the bullet copper jacketed bismuth and have the hollow core extend the entire length with the trailing third of the tunnel tapering wider, also give the bullet a boattail and a graphite discarding sabot to provide the gas seal and lubrication for the trip down the barrel. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Slowburn</span> <span class="date">- December 13, 2011 @ 10:12 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-96874" class="a_comment"> <p>re: Gregg Eshelman, </p> <p>kinetic energy is proportional to the square of the velocity, neglecting angular momentum due to rotation about its axis of symmetry. Equal terminal velocity, equal kinetic energy. I believe the French tried this holey projectile in 1916 and, unrelatedly, won the war. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Marvin Keith</span> <span class="date">- December 13, 2011 @ 11:40 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-97399" class="a_comment"> <p>If the holes are precision drilled and point slightly backwards, so that propellant gases do not also provide a forward push within the barrel. Why not also make a dimpled bullet. Studies should be done on sniper rifles, as ballistics is most important here. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Dawar Saify</span> <span class="date">- December 15, 2011 @ 08:11 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-97525" class="a_comment"> <p>If a golf ball rotated as fast as a bullet does, there would be no or minimal effect of the dimples on the air as the air could not fill or void the spaces created by the surface variations fast enough. Even a .45 is rotating about 40,000 rpms. I think lighter is the only real deal on these bullets. Lighter bullets also give less recoil. Best way is to do a side by side test as someone mentioned. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Don White</span> <span class="date">- December 16, 2011 @ 01:30 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-97879" class="a_comment"> <p>You guys can talk till your blue in the face(s), but actual seeing some testing performed would probably add some credibility as to whether or not this bullet will perform as the above article suggests. </p> <p></p> <p>Not with standing all of the above rhetoric, this seems like a project for: "MYTH BUSTERS"! </p> <p></p> <p>Jim Dasher </p> <p>Edmonds, WA </p> <p></p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">jayedwin98020</span> <span class="date">- December 19, 2011 @ 09:46 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-99103" class="a_comment"> <p>Read the title.. and for a second I thought they were taking the bullets to the church. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">chakflying</span> <span class="date">- December 26, 2011 @ 08:28 am PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-100759" class="a_comment"> <p>I am no expert, however IMHO I think there is some merit in the idea. A good live fire test would prove or disprove the effect of the bullets. Based on my experience and a few aerodynamics classes the holes in the sides link to the center hole connecting the low pressure region in the base the bullet to the relatively higher pressure air flowing around the point. </p> <p>This would function in a similar way to base bleed rounds where a very slow burning propellant in the base reduces the low pressure in this region, decreasing drag. </p> <p></p> <p>As for the other claims I don't see much of a point, for example the holes for the brief period where the tail is still engaged to the inside of the barrel/rifling and the holes are exposed would vent propellant like a muzzle brake. As stated before any small variation in hole placement would cause a change in trajectory. The claim of reducing friction in barrel is likely false as well, for maximum muzzle velocity a bullet has to make a good seal to the barrel and the trade off between sealing, stress on the barrel and friction are too deep to go into in this forum. Instead I will point out there is one true way to reduce friction, and that is using a solid lubricant such as Teflon or moly to coat the rounds. These ended up being labeled as a "cop killer" rounds and banned in quite a few states if a remember correctly. </p> <p></p> <p>Ultimately any improvement will be hardly worth the extra expense of machining these bullets. If anyone is giving out free rounds to test them I wouldn't mind a few, even if they don't pan out, it would be fun to fire a few down range. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">Mark Larson</span> <span class="date">- January 4, 2012 @ 04:46 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> <div id="comment-101182" class="a_comment"> <p>Myron J. Poltroonian you made a very reasonable statement and then you went and screwed it all up with the last sentence that was as blue sky as most of the other comments. If they showed a wadcutter on this site and said it was a better target round I suspect there would be 10s of opinions about why it wouldn't work or was better then other rounds. </p> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20120119141813im_/http://images.gizmag.com/layout/icons/comment.png" alt="comment"> <span class="name">katgod</span> <span class="date">- January 5, 2012 @ 10:02 pm PST</span> <div class="clear_both"></div> </div> </div> <span class="title">Post a Comment</span> <div class="dotsontop" id="comment_form_div"> <div id="comment_form" data-article="20806"> <div id="comments_login"> <form action="" style="clear: both; padding-top: 0px;" name="login_form" id="login_form" onsubmit="return false;"> <p><strong>Login with your gizmag account:</strong></p> <p id="login_status"></p> <label for="email">Email</label><input type="text" class="text" name="email" id="email" value=""/><br/><br/> <label for="password">Password</label><input type="password" class="text" name="password" 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