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class="vector-toc-text"> 1.1 Tasha Yar </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Tasha_Yar-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Toa_Payoh_ritual_murders" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Toa_Payoh_ritual_murders"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.2 Toa Payoh ritual murders </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Toa_Payoh_ritual_murders-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Trembling_Before_G-d" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Trembling_Before_G-d"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.3 Trembling Before G-d </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Trembling_Before_G-d-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ocean_sunfish" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ocean_sunfish"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.4 Ocean sunfish </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Ocean_sunfish-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Boogeyman_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Boogeyman_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.5 Boogeyman 2 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Boogeyman_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Tim_Duncan" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tim_Duncan"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.6 Tim Duncan </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Tim_Duncan-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Trafford_Park" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Trafford_Park"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.7 Trafford Park </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Trafford_Park-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Shoshone_National_Forest" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Shoshone_National_Forest"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.8 Shoshone National Forest </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Shoshone_National_Forest-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.9 Lemurs of Madagascar (book) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Pre-dreadnought_battleship" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Pre-dreadnought_battleship"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.10 Pre-dreadnought battleship </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Pre-dreadnought_battleship-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Northrop_YF-23" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Northrop_YF-23"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.11 Northrop YF-23 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Northrop_YF-23-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-1880_Republican_National_Convention" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#1880_Republican_National_Convention"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.12 1880 Republican National Convention </div> </a> <ul id="toc-1880_Republican_National_Convention-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Edward_I_of_England" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Edward_I_of_England"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13 Edward I of England </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Edward_I_of_England-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Comment_by_KJP1" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Comment_by_KJP1"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.1 Comment by KJP1 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Comment_by_KJP1-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Edward's_Jewish_policies:_text_check" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Edward's_Jewish_policies:_text_check"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.2 Edward's Jewish policies: text check </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Edward's_Jewish_policies:_text_check-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wales_I:_Edward_I_of_England#Conquest_of_Wales" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wales_I:_Edward_I_of_England#Conquest_of_Wales"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.3 Wales I: Edward I of England#Conquest of Wales </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Wales_I:_Edward_I_of_England#Conquest_of_Wales-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wales_II:_Edward_I_of_England#Legacy" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wales_II:_Edward_I_of_England#Legacy"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.4 Wales II: Edward I of England#Legacy </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Wales_II:_Edward_I_of_England#Legacy-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ireland" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ireland"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.5 Ireland </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Ireland-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Next_steps" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Next_steps"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.6 Next steps </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Next_steps-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Comments_from_KJP1" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Comments_from_KJP1"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.7 Comments from KJP1 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Comments_from_KJP1-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Feedback_requested" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Feedback_requested"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.8 Feedback requested </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Feedback_requested-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Matarisvan" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Matarisvan"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.13.9 Matarisvan </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Matarisvan-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Byzantine_Empire" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Byzantine_Empire"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 1.14 Byzantine Empire </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Byzantine_Empire-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Featured_article_removal_candidates" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Featured_article_removal_candidates"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2 Featured article removal candidates </div> </a> 229 comments <button aria-controls="toc-Featured_article_removal_candidates-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> Toggle Featured article removal candidates subsection </button> <ul id="toc-Featured_article_removal_candidates-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-The_Hardy_Boys" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Hardy_Boys"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.1 The Hardy Boys </div> </a> <ul id="toc-The_Hardy_Boys-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Review_section" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Review_section"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.1.1 Review section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Review_section-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-FARC_section" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#FARC_section"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.1.2 FARC section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-FARC_section-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Tom_Swift" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tom_Swift"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.2 Tom Swift </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Tom_Swift-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Review_section_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Review_section_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.2.1 Review section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Review_section_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-FARC_section_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#FARC_section_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.2.2 FARC section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-FARC_section_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.3 Arthur (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire) </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Review_section_3" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Review_section_3"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.3.1 Review section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Review_section_3-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-FARC_section_3" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#FARC_section_3"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.3.2 FARC section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-FARC_section_3-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Bart_Simpson" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Bart_Simpson"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.4 Bart Simpson </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Bart_Simpson-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Review_section_4" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Review_section_4"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.4.1 Review section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Review_section_4-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-FARC_section_4" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#FARC_section_4"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.4.2 FARC section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-FARC_section_4-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Emmy_Noether" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Emmy_Noether"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.5 Emmy Noether </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Emmy_Noether-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Review_section_5" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Review_section_5"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.5.1 Review section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Review_section_5-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-FARC_section_5" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#FARC_section_5"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.5.2 FARC section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-FARC_section_5-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Isaac_Brock" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Isaac_Brock"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.6 Isaac Brock </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Isaac_Brock-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Review_section_6" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Review_section_6"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.6.1 Review section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Review_section_6-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-FARC_section_6" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#FARC_section_6"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.6.2 FARC section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-FARC_section_6-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Mariah_Carey" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mariah_Carey"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.7 Mariah Carey </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Mariah_Carey-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Review_section_7" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Review_section_7"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.7.1 Review section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Review_section_7-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-FARC_section_7" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#FARC_section_7"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.7.2 FARC section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-FARC_section_7-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Concerto_delle_donne" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Concerto_delle_donne"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.8 Concerto delle donne </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Concerto_delle_donne-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Review_section_8" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Review_section_8"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.8.1 Review section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Review_section_8-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-FARC_section_8" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#FARC_section_8"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 2.8.2 FARC section </div> </a> <ul id="toc-FARC_section_8-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown 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interwiki-az mw-list-item"><a href="https://az.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipediya:Se%C3%A7ilmi%C5%9F_m%C9%99qal%C9%99_statusunun_geri_al%C4%B1nmas%C4%B1" title="Vikipediya:Seçilmiş məqalə statusunun geri alınması – Azerbaijani" lang="az" hreflang="az" data-title="Vikipediya:Seçilmiş məqalə statusunun geri alınması" data-language-autonym="Azərbaycanca" data-language-local-name="Azerbaijani" class="interlanguage-link-target">Azərbaycanca</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-bn mw-list-item"><a href="https://bn.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A6%89%E0%A6%87%E0%A6%95%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AA%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A1%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AF%E0%A6%BC%E0%A6%BE:%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%BE%E0%A6%9A%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%A4_%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%AC%E0%A6%A8%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%A7_%E0%A6%AA%E0%A7%81%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%A8%E0%A6%BF%E0%A6%B0%E0%A7%80%E0%A6%95%E0%A7%8D%E0%A6%B7%E0%A6%A3" title="উইকিপিডিয়া:নির্বাচিত নিবন্ধ পুনর্নিরীক্ষণ – Bangla" lang="bn" hreflang="bn" data-title="উইকিপিডিয়া:নির্বাচিত নিবন্ধ পুনর্নিরীক্ষণ" data-language-autonym="বাংলা" data-language-local-name="Bangla" class="interlanguage-link-target">বাংলা</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ba mw-list-item"><a href="https://ba.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D2%BA%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BD%D2%93%D0%B0%D0%BD_%D0%BC%D3%99%D2%A1%D3%99%D0%BB%D3%99%D0%BB%D3%99%D1%80/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8B%D0%BD_%D2%AF%D2%99%D0%B3%D3%99%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B3%D3%99_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80" title="Википедия:Һайланған мәҡәләләр/Статусын үҙгәртергә кандидаттар – Bashkir" lang="ba" hreflang="ba" data-title="Википедия:Һайланған мәҡәләләр/Статусын үҙгәртергә кандидаттар" data-language-autonym="Башҡортса" data-language-local-name="Bashkir" class="interlanguage-link-target">Башҡортса</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-be mw-list-item"><a href="https://be.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D1%96%D0%BA%D1%96%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%8B%D1%8F:%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%8B%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B_%D1%9E_%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%8F_%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D1%8B%D0%BA%D1%83%D0%BB%D1%8B/%D0%94%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B1%D0%B0%D1%9E%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%81%D1%83" title="Вікіпедыя:Кандыдаты ў выдатныя артыкулы/Да пазбаўлення статусу – Belarusian" lang="be" hreflang="be" data-title="Вікіпедыя:Кандыдаты ў выдатныя артыкулы/Да пазбаўлення статусу" data-language-autonym="Беларуская" data-language-local-name="Belarusian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Беларуская</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ca mw-list-item"><a href="https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:Propostes_de_retirada_de_la_distinci%C3%B3" title="Viquipèdia:Propostes de retirada de la distinció – Catalan" lang="ca" hreflang="ca" data-title="Viquipèdia:Propostes de retirada de la distinció" data-language-autonym="Català" data-language-local-name="Catalan" class="interlanguage-link-target">Català</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-el mw-list-item"><a href="https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%92%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%B9%CF%80%CE%B1%CE%AF%CE%B4%CE%B5%CE%B9%CE%B1:%CE%91%CF%86%CE%B1%CE%AF%CF%81%CE%B5%CF%83%CE%B7_%CF%80%CF%81%CE%BF%CE%B2%CE%B5%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%AD%CE%BD%CF%89%CE%BD_%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BC%CE%BC%CE%AC%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD" title="Βικιπαίδεια:Αφαίρεση προβεβλημένων λημμάτων – Greek" lang="el" hreflang="el" data-title="Βικιπαίδεια:Αφαίρεση προβεβλημένων λημμάτων" data-language-autonym="Ελληνικά" data-language-local-name="Greek" class="interlanguage-link-target">Ελληνικά</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-es mw-list-item"><a href="https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Revalidaci%C3%B3n_de_art%C3%ADculos_destacados" title="Wikipedia:Revalidación de artículos destacados – Spanish" lang="es" hreflang="es" data-title="Wikipedia:Revalidación de artículos destacados" data-language-autonym="Español" data-language-local-name="Spanish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Español</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-eo mw-list-item"><a href="https://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipedio:Ne_plu_elstaraj_artikoloj" title="Vikipedio:Ne plu elstaraj artikoloj – Esperanto" lang="eo" hreflang="eo" data-title="Vikipedio:Ne plu elstaraj artikoloj" data-language-autonym="Esperanto" data-language-local-name="Esperanto" class="interlanguage-link-target">Esperanto</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-fa mw-list-item"><a href="https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D8%A8%D8%A7%D8%B2%D8%A8%DB%8C%D9%86%DB%8C_%D9%85%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%87%E2%80%8C%D9%87%D8%A7%DB%8C_%D8%A8%D8%B1%DA%AF%D8%B2%DB%8C%D8%AF%D9%87" title="ویکی‌پدیا:بازبینی مقاله‌های برگزیده – Persian" lang="fa" hreflang="fa" data-title="ویکی‌پدیا:بازبینی مقاله‌های برگزیده" data-language-autonym="فارسی" data-language-local-name="Persian" class="interlanguage-link-target">فارسی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ko mw-list-item"><a href="https://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EC%9C%84%ED%82%A4%EB%B0%B1%EA%B3%BC:%EC%95%8C%EC%B0%AC_%EA%B8%80_%EC%9E%AC%EA%B2%80%ED%86%A0" title="위키백과:알찬 글 재검토 – Korean" lang="ko" hreflang="ko" data-title="위키백과:알찬 글 재검토" data-language-autonym="한국어" data-language-local-name="Korean" class="interlanguage-link-target">한국어</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-id mw-list-item"><a href="https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Artikel_pilihan/Peninjauan_ulang" title="Wikipedia:Artikel pilihan/Peninjauan ulang – Indonesian" lang="id" hreflang="id" data-title="Wikipedia:Artikel pilihan/Peninjauan ulang" data-language-autonym="Bahasa Indonesia" data-language-local-name="Indonesian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Bahasa Indonesia</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-it mw-list-item"><a href="https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Riconoscimenti_di_qualit%C3%A0/Dubbi_di_qualit%C3%A0" title="Wikipedia:Riconoscimenti di qualità/Dubbi di qualità – Italian" lang="it" hreflang="it" data-title="Wikipedia:Riconoscimenti di qualità/Dubbi di qualità" data-language-autonym="Italiano" data-language-local-name="Italian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Italiano</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-mk mw-list-item"><a href="https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0:%D0%A0%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B8" title="Википедија:Ревизија на избрани статии – Macedonian" lang="mk" hreflang="mk" data-title="Википедија:Ревизија на избрани статии" data-language-autonym="Македонски" data-language-local-name="Macedonian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Македонски</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-arz mw-list-item"><a href="https://arz.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%83%D9%8A%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D9%85%D9%82%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%85%D8%AE%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%87/%D9%85%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AC%D8%B9%D9%87" title="ويكيبيديا:مقالات مختاره/مراجعه – Egyptian Arabic" lang="arz" hreflang="arz" data-title="ويكيبيديا:مقالات مختاره/مراجعه" data-language-autonym="مصرى" data-language-local-name="Egyptian Arabic" class="interlanguage-link-target">مصرى</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ms mw-list-item"><a href="https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Rencana_pilihan/Kajian_semula" title="Wikipedia:Rencana pilihan/Kajian semula – Malay" lang="ms" hreflang="ms" data-title="Wikipedia:Rencana pilihan/Kajian semula" data-language-autonym="Bahasa Melayu" data-language-local-name="Malay" class="interlanguage-link-target">Bahasa Melayu</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ne mw-list-item"><a href="https://ne.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B5%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%95%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AA%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%A1%E0%A4%BF%E0%A4%AF%E0%A4%BE:%E0%A4%AA%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B0%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%96_%E0%A4%B2%E0%A5%87%E0%A4%96_%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%AE%E0%A5%80%E0%A4%95%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%B7%E0%A4%BE" title="विकिपिडिया:प्रमुख लेख समीक्षा – Nepali" lang="ne" hreflang="ne" data-title="विकिपिडिया:प्रमुख लेख समीक्षा" data-language-autonym="नेपाली" data-language-local-name="Nepali" class="interlanguage-link-target">नेपाली</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ja mw-list-item"><a href="https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E7%A7%80%E9%80%B8%E3%81%AA%E8%A8%98%E4%BA%8B%E3%81%AE%E5%86%8D%E9%81%B8%E8%80%83" title="Wikipedia:秀逸な記事の再選考 – Japanese" lang="ja" hreflang="ja" data-title="Wikipedia:秀逸な記事の再選考" data-language-autonym="日本語" data-language-local-name="Japanese" class="interlanguage-link-target">日本語</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-pt mw-list-item"><a href="https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Revalida%C3%A7%C3%A3o" title="Wikipédia:Revalidação – Portuguese" lang="pt" hreflang="pt" data-title="Wikipédia:Revalidação" data-language-autonym="Português" data-language-local-name="Portuguese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Português</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ru mw-list-item"><a href="https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82:%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B_%D0%B2_%D1%83%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D1%88%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C%D0%B8" title="Проект:Кандидаты в устаревшие избранные статьи – Russian" lang="ru" hreflang="ru" data-title="Проект:Кандидаты в устаревшие избранные статьи" data-language-autonym="Русский" data-language-local-name="Russian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Русский</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sco mw-list-item"><a href="https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featurt_airticle_review" title="Wikipedia:Featurt airticle review – Scots" lang="sco" hreflang="sco" data-title="Wikipedia:Featurt airticle review" data-language-autonym="Scots" data-language-local-name="Scots" class="interlanguage-link-target">Scots</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sk mw-list-item"><a href="https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Rev%C3%ADzia_najlep%C5%A1%C3%ADch_%C4%8Dl%C3%A1nkov" title="Wikipédia:Revízia najlepších článkov – Slovak" lang="sk" hreflang="sk" data-title="Wikipédia:Revízia najlepších článkov" data-language-autonym="Slovenčina" data-language-local-name="Slovak" class="interlanguage-link-target">Slovenčina</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-sl mw-list-item"><a href="https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedija:Ponovni_pregled_izbranih_%C4%8Dlankov" title="Wikipedija:Ponovni pregled izbranih člankov – Slovenian" lang="sl" hreflang="sl" data-title="Wikipedija:Ponovni pregled izbranih člankov" data-language-autonym="Slovenščina" data-language-local-name="Slovenian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Slovenščina</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-so mw-list-item"><a href="https://so.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Habaynta_Maqaalada_Xulka_Ah" title="Wikipedia:Habaynta Maqaalada Xulka Ah – Somali" lang="so" hreflang="so" data-title="Wikipedia:Habaynta Maqaalada Xulka Ah" data-language-autonym="Soomaaliga" data-language-local-name="Somali" class="interlanguage-link-target">Soomaaliga</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ckb mw-list-item"><a href="https://ckb.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%DB%8C%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D9%88%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%B1%DB%95_%DA%BE%DB%95%DA%B5%D8%A8%DA%98%DB%8E%D8%B1%D8%AF%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%88%DB%95%DA%A9%D8%A7%D9%86/%DA%BE%DB%95%DA%B5%D8%B3%DB%95%D9%86%DA%AF%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AF%D9%86%DB%95%D9%88%DB%95" title="ویکیپیدیا:وتارە ھەڵبژێردراوەکان/ھەڵسەنگاندنەوە – Central Kurdish" lang="ckb" hreflang="ckb" data-title="ویکیپیدیا:وتارە ھەڵبژێردراوەکان/ھەڵسەنگاندنەوە" data-language-autonym="کوردی" data-language-local-name="Central Kurdish" class="interlanguage-link-target">کوردی</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tl mw-list-item"><a href="https://tl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Pagbabalik-tanaw_sa_mga_napiling_artikulo" title="Wikipedia:Pagbabalik-tanaw sa mga napiling artikulo – Tagalog" lang="tl" hreflang="tl" data-title="Wikipedia:Pagbabalik-tanaw sa mga napiling artikulo" data-language-autonym="Tagalog" data-language-local-name="Tagalog" class="interlanguage-link-target">Tagalog</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-th mw-list-item"><a href="https://th.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B5%E0%B8%A2:%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A3/%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%83%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A1%E0%B9%88" title="วิกิพีเดีย:บทความคัดสรร/บทความคัดสรรที่ควรปรับปรุงใหม่ – Thai" lang="th" hreflang="th" data-title="วิกิพีเดีย:บทความคัดสรร/บทความคัดสรรที่ควรปรับปรุงใหม่" data-language-autonym="ไทย" data-language-local-name="Thai" class="interlanguage-link-target">ไทย</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-tr mw-list-item"><a href="https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vikipedi:Se%C3%A7kin_madde_incelemesi" title="Vikipedi:Seçkin madde incelemesi – Turkish" lang="tr" hreflang="tr" data-title="Vikipedi:Seçkin madde incelemesi" data-language-autonym="Türkçe" data-language-local-name="Turkish" class="interlanguage-link-target">Türkçe</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-uk mw-list-item"><a href="https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D1%96%D0%BA%D1%96%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D1%96%D1%8F:%D0%9A%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8_%D1%83_%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%96_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%82%D1%96/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B7%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F_%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%81%D1%83" title="Вікіпедія:Кандидати у вибрані статті/Позбавлення статусу – Ukrainian" lang="uk" hreflang="uk" data-title="Вікіпедія:Кандидати у вибрані статті/Позбавлення статусу" data-language-autonym="Українська" data-language-local-name="Ukrainian" class="interlanguage-link-target">Українська</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-ur mw-list-item"><a href="https://ur.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%D9%BE%DB%8C%DA%88%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%A8_%D9%85%D8%B6%D9%85%D9%88%D9%86_%DA%A9%D8%A7_%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%A6%D8%B2%DB%81" title="ویکیپیڈیا:منتخب مضمون کا جائزہ – Urdu" lang="ur" hreflang="ur" data-title="ویکیپیڈیا:منتخب مضمون کا جائزہ" data-language-autonym="اردو" data-language-local-name="Urdu" class="interlanguage-link-target">اردو</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-vi mw-list-item"><a href="https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%C4%90%E1%BB%81_ngh%E1%BB%8B_r%C3%BAt_sao_b%C3%A0i_vi%E1%BA%BFt_ch%E1%BB%8Dn_l%E1%BB%8Dc" title="Wikipedia:Đề nghị rút sao bài viết chọn lọc – Vietnamese" lang="vi" hreflang="vi" data-title="Wikipedia:Đề nghị rút sao bài viết chọn lọc" data-language-autonym="Tiếng Việt" data-language-local-name="Vietnamese" class="interlanguage-link-target">Tiếng Việt</a></li><li class="interlanguage-link interwiki-zh-yue mw-list-item"><a href="https://zh-yue.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:%E6%AD%A3%E6%96%87%E6%AA%A2%E8%A8%8E" title="Wikipedia:正文檢討 – Cantonese" lang="yue" hreflang="yue" data-title="Wikipedia:正文檢討" data-language-autonym="粵語" data-language-local-name="Cantonese" class="interlanguage-link-target">粵語</a></li> </ul> <div class="after-portlet after-portlet-lang"><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:EntityPage/Q6704808#sitelinks-wikipedia" title="Edit interlanguage links" class="wbc-editpage">Edit links</a></div> </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-project" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review" title="View the project page 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searchaux" style="display:none">Wikipedia project page for featured articles</div> <table> <tbody><tr> <td style="background: #e6f2ff; border: 1px solid #a3b1bf; padding: 0.5em 1em; vertical-align: top; width: 70%;"> Reviewing featured articles <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcuts</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:FAR&redirect=no">WP:FAR</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:FARC&redirect=no">WP:FARC</a></li></ul></div></div> This page is for the review and improvement of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles" title="Wikipedia:Featured articles">featured articles</a> (FAs) that may no longer meet the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Featured article criteria">featured article criteria</a>. FAs are held to the current standards regardless of when they were promoted. There are three requisite stages in the process, to which all users are welcome to contribute. 1. Raise issues at the article's talk page <ul><li>In this step, concerned editors attempt to directly resolve issues with the existing community of article editors, and to informally improve the article. Concerned editors should give article watchers two to three weeks to respond to concerns before nominating the article for Featured article review. During this step, articles are not yet listed on this page (but they can be added to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/notices_given" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/notices given">Wikipedia:Featured article review/notices given</a>, and removed from there once posted here).</li></ul> 2. Featured article review (FAR) <ul><li>In this step, possible improvements are discussed without declarations of "keep" or "delist". The aim is to improve articles rather than to demote them. Nominators must specify the featured article criteria that are at issue and should propose remedies. The ideal review would address the issues raised and close with no change in status.</li> <li>Reviews can improve articles in various ways: articles may need updating, formatting, and general copyediting. More complex issues, such as a failure to meet current standards of prose, comprehensiveness, factual accuracy, and neutrality, may also be addressed.</li> <li>The featured article review coordinators—<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Casliber" title="User:Casliber">Casliber</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:DrKay" title="User:DrKay">DrKay</a>—determine either that there is consensus to close during this second stage, or that there is insufficient consensus to do so and so therefore the nomination should be moved to the third stage.</li></ul> 3. Featured article removal candidate (FARC) <ul><li>An article is never listed as a removal candidate without first undergoing a review. In this third stage, participants may declare "keep" or "delist", supported by substantive comments, and further time is provided to overcome deficiencies.</li> <li>Reviewers who declare "delist" should be prepared to return towards the end of the process to strike out their objections if they have been addressed.</li> <li>The featured article review coordinators determine whether there is consensus for a change in the status of a nomination, and close the listing accordingly.</li></ul> The FAR and FARC stages typically last two to three weeks, or longer where changes are ongoing and it seems useful to continue the process. Nominations are moved from the review period to the removal list, unless it is very clear that editors feel the article is within criteria. Given that extensions are always granted on request, as long as the article is receiving attention, editors should not be alarmed by an article moving from review to the removal candidates' list. To contact the FAR coordinators, please leave a message on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review" title="Wikipedia talk:Featured article review">FAR talk page</a>, or use the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:@FAR" title="Template:@FAR">@FAR</a>}} <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Notifications" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Notifications">notification</a> template elsewhere. Urgent reviews are listed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/FAR_urgents" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/FAR urgents">here</a>. Older reviews are stored in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/archive" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/archive">archive</a>. <a href="#toc">Table of Contents</a> – This page: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review&action=purge">Purge cache</a>, <a href="//toolserver.org/~dispenser/summary/Featured_article_review" class="extiw" title="tools:~dispenser/summary/Featured article review">Checklinks</a>, <a href="//toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/rdcheck.py%3Fheadlinks%3DWP:FAR" class="extiw" title="tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/rdcheck.py?headlinks=WP:FAR">Check redirects</a>, <a href="//toolserver.org/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py%3Fheadlinks%3DWP:FAR" class="extiw" title="tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py?headlinks=WP:FAR">Dablinks</a> </td> <td style="background: #e6f2ff; border: 1px solid #a3b1bf; padding: 0.5em 1em; vertical-align: top;"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239400231">.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:inline;font-size:88%;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .navbar-collapse{float:left;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .navbar-boxtext{word-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .navbar ul{display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;line-height:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::before{margin-right:-0.125em;content:"[ "}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::after{margin-left:-0.125em;content:" ]"}.mw-parser-output .navbar li{word-spacing:-0.125em}.mw-parser-output .navbar a>span,.mw-parser-output .navbar a>abbr{text-decoration:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-mini abbr{font-variant:small-caps;border-bottom:none;text-decoration:none;cursor:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-full{font-size:114%;margin:0 7em}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-mini{font-size:114%;margin:0 4em}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini" style="float:right"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:FApages" title="Template:FApages"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:FApages" title="Template talk:FApages"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:FApages" title="Special:EditPage/Template:FApages"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_content" title="Wikipedia:Featured content">Featured content:</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles" title="Wikipedia:Featured articles">Featured articles</a> ←</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_lists" title="Wikipedia:Featured lists">Featured lists</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_pictures" title="Wikipedia:Featured pictures">Featured pictures</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_topics" title="Wikipedia:Featured topics">Featured topics</a></li></ul> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates">Featured article candidates (FAC)</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Featured article criteria">Featured article criteria</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Featured_log" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Featured log">Featured article log</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_statistics" title="Wikipedia:Featured article statistics">Featured article statistics</a></li></ul> <a class="mw-selflink selflink">Featured article review (FAR)</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Former_featured_articles" title="Wikipedia:Former featured articles">Former featured articles</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Unreviewed_featured_articles/2020" title="Wikipedia:Unreviewed featured articles/2020">Unreviewed featured articles/2020</a></li></ul> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article">Today's featured article (TFA)</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/November_2024" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 2024">This month's queue</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About_Today%27s_featured_article" title="Wikipedia:About Today's featured article">About Today's featured article</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/recent_TFAs" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article/recent TFAs">Recent TFAs and statistics</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/requests" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests">Current TFA requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/requests/pending" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/pending">Potential TFA requests</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article_oddities" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article oddities">TFA oddities</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/Most_viewed" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article/Most viewed">Most viewed TFAs</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles_that_haven%27t_been_on_the_Main_Page" title="Wikipedia:Featured articles that haven't been on the Main Page">Featured articles yet to appear as TFA</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Lourdes/TFAhistorylink" title="User:Lourdes/TFAhistorylink">Script to track TFA recent changes</a></li></ul> Featured article tools: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Mentoring_for_FAC" title="Wikipedia:Mentoring for FAC">Mentoring for FAC</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_featured_article_nominations" title="Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by featured article nominations">Nominators of featured articles promoted</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia:Featured_articles" title="Special:RecentChangesLinked/Wikipedia:Featured articles">Recent changes to featured articles</a></li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://RandomInCategory.toolforge.org/Featured_articles?site=en.wikipedia.org">Random featured article</a></li></ul> </td></tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" style="background: #f5faff; border: 1px solid #a3b1bf; padding:0.5em 1em;"> Nominating an article for FAR The number of FARs that can be placed on the page is limited as follows: <ol><li>No more than one nomination per week by the same nominator.</li> <li>No more than five nominations by the same nominator on the page at one time, unless permission for more is given by a FAR coordinator.</li></ol> Nominators are strongly encouraged to assist in the process of improvement; they should not nominate articles that are <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article">featured on the main page</a> (or have been featured there in the previous three days) and should avoid segmenting review pages. Three to six months is regarded as the minimum time between promotion and nomination here, unless there are extenuating circumstances such as a radical change in article content. <ol><li>Before nomination, raise issues at talk page of the article. Attempt to directly resolve issues with the existing community of article editors, and to informally improve the article over at least a two-week period. Articles in this step are not listed on this page.</li> <li>Place {{subst:FAR}} at the top of the talk page of the nominated article. Write "FAR listing" in the edit summary box. Click on "Publish changes".</li> <li>From the FAR template, click on the red "initiate the review" link. You will see pre-loaded information; please leave that text.</li> <li>Below the preloaded title, write which users and projects you'll notify (see step 6 below), and your reason(s) for nominating the article, specifying the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WIAFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WIAFA">FA criterion/criteria</a> that are at issue, then click on "Publish changes".</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review&action=edit&section=1">Click here</a>, and place your nomination at the top of the list of nominated articles, {{Wikipedia:Featured article review/name of nominated article/archiveN}}, filling in the exact name of the nominated article and the archive number N. Click on "Publish changes".</li> <li>Notify relevant parties by adding {{subst:FARMessage|ArticleName|alt=FAR subpage}} ~~~~ (for example, {{subst:FARMessage|Superman|alt=Superman/archive1}} ~~~~) to relevant talk pages (insert article name); note that the template does not automatically create the talkpage section header. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Relevant parties include <ul><li>main contributors to the article (identifiable through <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo">XTools</a>),</li> <li>the editor who originally nominated the article for Featured Article status (identifiable through the Featured Article Candidate link in the Article Milestones), and</li> <li>any relevant WikiProjects (identifiable through the talk page banners, but there may be other Projects that should be notified).</li></ul> <dl><dd>The Notified:message at the top of the FAR should indicate who you have notified and include a link with the date of the pre-notification given on article talk.</dd></dl></li></ol> </td></tr></tbody></table> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r886046785">.mw-parser-output .toclimit-2 .toclevel-1 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-3 .toclevel-2 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-4 .toclevel-3 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-5 .toclevel-4 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-6 .toclevel-5 ul,.mw-parser-output .toclimit-7 .toclevel-6 ul{display:none}</style><div class="toclimit-4"><meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Featured_article_reviews" data-mw-thread-id="h-Featured_article_reviews-20231030220300">Featured article reviews</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Featured article reviews">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Tasha_Yar" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tasha_Yar-Featured_article_reviews-20241124024100"><a href="/wiki/Tasha_Yar" title="Tasha Yar">Tasha Yar</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Tasha_Yar/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Tasha Yar">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fictional_characters" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Fictional characters">WikiProject Fictional characters</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Star_Trek" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Star Trek">WikiProject Star Trek</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Miyagawa" title="User:Miyagawa">Miyagawa</a></dd></dl> I am nominating this featured article for review because...The article doesn't meet the modern standard of FA right now. The article is missing a lot of content like its appeareances section for example. When you search for the character in the "news" section, a lot of content needs to be added, mostly for updating. It also used low-quality sources like Tor.com and IndieWire + the prose/writing at reception isn't FA quality. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241124024100-Tasha_Yar" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:41, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Toa_Payoh_ritual_murders" data-mw-thread-id="h-Toa_Payoh_ritual_murders-Featured_article_reviews-20241117181300"><a href="/wiki/Toa_Payoh_ritual_murders" title="Toa Payoh ritual murders">Toa Payoh ritual murders</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Toa_Payoh_ritual_murders/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Toa Payoh ritual murders">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AJappalang&diff=1258013920&oldid=1254107727">Jappalang</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Singapore&diff=1258013875&oldid=1257287569">WikiProject Singapore</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AWikiProject_Crime_and_Criminal_Biography&diff=1258013860&oldid=1257778182">WikiProject Crime</a></dd></dl> I am nominating this featured article for review because of lack of sourcing and lack of page numbers for verifiability, as well as prose and style issues. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241117181300-Toa_Payoh_ritual_murders" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:13, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I could probably resolve some of the citation formatting issues, but due to how access to newspapers is in Singapore resolving the other issues will be very difficult for anyone who does not live in Singapore. <a href="/wiki/User:PARAKANYAA" title="User:PARAKANYAA">PARAKANYAA</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PARAKANYAA" title="User talk:PARAKANYAA">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-PARAKANYAA-20241117184100-Nikkimaria-20241117181300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:41, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Personally at first glance it's still in decent shape for an old FA, albeit with just a couple of uncited statements which can either be removed or looked up on <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/newspapers/">NewspaperSG</a>. But I can only devote some energy into this if given some time.--<a href="/wiki/User:ZKang123" title="User:ZKang123">ZKang123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ZKang123" title="User talk:ZKang123">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ZKang123-20241118045500-PARAKANYAA-20241117184100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Will assist as well. <a href="/wiki/User:Robertsky" title="User:Robertsky">– robertsky</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robertsky" title="User talk:Robertsky">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Robertsky-20241118050700-ZKang123-20241118045500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:07, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Trembling_Before_G-d" data-mw-thread-id="h-Trembling_Before_G-d-Featured_article_reviews-20241117053300"><a href="/wiki/Trembling_Before_G-d" title="Trembling Before G-d">Trembling Before G-d</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Trembling_Before_G-d/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Trembling Before G-d">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dev920" title="User talk:Dev920">Dev920</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Film" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Film">WikiProject Film</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_LGBTQ%2B_studies" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies">WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1251448746">diff for talk page notification (2024-10-16)</a></dd></dl> The article is now in either so-so shape or worse (but still probably no longer FA-quality). Some statements may need to be verified by reliable sources. The merger with the poorly-shaped soundtrack article worsened the parent film article's quality. The Reception section needs probably either some balance or more opinions of non-religious critics. A few years after raising my concerns, not much has been done to address my concerns. <a href="/wiki/User:George_Ho" title="User:George Ho">George Ho</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:George_Ho" title="User talk:George Ho">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-George_Ho-20241117053300-Trembling_Before_G-d" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:33, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a>; edited, 21:00, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] Hmm. A very old (2007) FA that is underdeveloped by modern standards. The "Synopsis" section consists of listy and stubby paras, and the "Legacy" section is about reissues rather than critical analysis or influence. Very heavy lifting needed per George (initial concerns raised in 2021), although the original nominator is still active. <a href="/wiki/User:Ceoil" title="User:Ceoil">Ceoil</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ceoil" title="User talk:Ceoil">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Ceoil-20241117075800-Trembling_Before_G-d" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:58, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Ocean_sunfish" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ocean_sunfish-Featured_article_reviews-20241116234700"><a href="/wiki/Ocean_sunfish" title="Ocean sunfish">Ocean sunfish</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Ocean_sunfish/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Ocean sunfish">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:PaladinWhite" title="User talk:PaladinWhite">PaladinWhite</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kodiak_Blackjack" title="User talk:Kodiak Blackjack">Kodiak Blackjack</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Fishes" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:Fishes">Fishes</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AOcean_sunfish&diff=1216544848&oldid=1193655845">2024-03-31</a></dd></dl> I am nominating this featured article for review because the naming section is uncited, numerous tags throughout the article of various issues, and a "Conservation" section is missing. The article would also benefit from a search of more recent sources in order to add the most up-to-date information to the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241116234700-Ocean_sunfish" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:47, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Boogeyman_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Boogeyman_2-Featured_article_reviews-20241116230800"><a href="/wiki/Boogeyman_2" title="Boogeyman 2">Boogeyman 2</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Boogeyman_2/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Boogeyman 2">edit</a>]</div> I am not sure this article meets the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FACRITERIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FACRITERIA">WP:FACRITERIA</a> as raised by multiple users in the talk page (<a href="/wiki/Talk:Boogeyman_2#FA_Status?" title="Talk:Boogeyman 2">thread 1</a>; <a href="/wiki/Talk:Boogeyman_2#WP:FAR" title="Talk:Boogeyman 2">thread 2</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Boogeyman_2/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Boogeyman 2/archive1">FAC</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/notices_given" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/notices given">notice given</a>). Regarding the following specific criteria: - well-written: the prose is informative but somewhat unpolished in some places, and could be rewritten to be more engaging - comprehensive: Production, release, and sequel may benefit from expansion - well-researched: the article would benefit from additional sources and is missing citations, for instance, no citation for the Cast and for "Evolution of the killer's mask, dubbed Boogie Mask". NB: I wasn't sure if Cast needs citations in general but I have seen that many good articles have it, e.g. <a href="/wiki/The_Thing_(1982_film)#Cast" title="The Thing (1982 film)">The Thing (1982 film)#Cast</a>. - media: lacks significant use of images and other media, where appropriate, as required for FA. N.B.: the talk page has not addressed these changes (the previous thread is also from 7 years ago) so I suspect the original authors may be inactive. <a href="/wiki/User:Caleb_Stanford" title="User:Caleb Stanford">Caleb Stanford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Caleb_Stanford" title="User talk:Caleb Stanford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Caleb_Stanford-20241116230800-Boogeyman_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Tim_Duncan" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tim_Duncan-Featured_article_reviews-20241105140700"><a href="/wiki/Tim_Duncan" title="Tim Duncan">Tim Duncan</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Tim_Duncan/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Tim Duncan">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Basketball_Association" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association">WikiProject National Basketball Association</a>, [diff for talk page notification]</dd></dl> Back in September, I messaged on the talk page about concerns regarding the article. It was promoted to FA last 2007, and has been 17 years since. Now, the article has issues about prose and sourcing. No responses on the talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">t</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">c</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20241105140700-Tim_Duncan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:07, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Can you provide more details per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FAR">WP:FAR</a>, specifically: <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">Nominators must specify the featured article criteria that are at issue and should propose remedies.</q> Thanks. —<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Bagumba-20241105155500-ScarletViolet-20241105140700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:55, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Some of the paragraphs lack citations. Also, what makes slamduncan.com and jockbio.com reliable sources? <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">t</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">c</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20241107084500-Bagumba-20241105155500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:45, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If I look at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tim_Duncan&oldid=1255735678">the current version</a>, every paragraph in the body has at least one citation (and most have more). Sports Illustrated said SlamDuncan.com was his personal website.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2013/06/06/as-these-23-facts-prove-tim-duncan-is-actually-the-most-entertaining-man-in-the-nba">[1]</a> JockBio had no objections at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_126#Jockbio.com" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 126">Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 126 § Jockbio.com</a>. —<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Bagumba-20241107095300-ScarletViolet-20241107084500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:53, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>: There needs to be a citation at the end of every paragraph, minimum. A citation in the middle of a paragraph does not verify the information that comes after it. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241110162700-Bagumba-20241107095300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:27, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a>: I didn't see that explictly at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FACR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FACR">WP:FACR</a>, but at least it's an actionable item. —<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Bagumba-20241110164000-Z1720-20241110162700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>: While not explicitly stated, it is covered under 1c. Since this is a BLP, citations to verify information are doubly important. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241110170800-Bagumba-20241110164000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:08, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Seems like the second bullet <a href="/wiki/Talk:Tim_Duncan#FAR?" title="Talk:Tim Duncan">raised on the talk page</a> is now resolved, and I'm not seeing any missing citation paragraphs except this one: "In that game, Duncan scored 25 points in the first half, his biggest haul in a half of an NBA Finals game. However, the Spurs lost the game in overtime, and then lost the deciding seventh game.". If someone familiar with the subject matter can replace the jockbio cites and take a look at cleaning up some of the other citations & duplicate links, add address this sentence, that might cover it. <a href="/wiki/User:Caleb_Stanford" title="User:Caleb Stanford">Caleb Stanford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Caleb_Stanford" title="User talk:Caleb Stanford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Caleb_Stanford-20241118164100-ScarletViolet-20241105140700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Trafford_Park" data-mw-thread-id="h-Trafford_Park-Featured_article_reviews-20241026151300"><a href="/wiki/Trafford_Park" title="Trafford Park">Trafford Park</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Trafford_Park/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Trafford Park">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Parrot_of_Doom" title="User talk:Parrot of Doom">Parrot of Doom</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eric_Corbett" title="User talk:Eric Corbett">Eric Corbett</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Greater_Manchester" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Greater Manchester">WikiProject Greater Manchester</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_UK_geography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography">WikiProject UK geography</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ATrafford_Park&diff=1238866703&oldid=1210615777">06-08-2024</a></dd></dl> I am nominating this featured article for review because there are uncited statements and paragraphs, the lead is long and could be better formatted. The "Current and future transport" and "Political representation" sections are underdeveloped, and the "History" section stops at 2008. There is no "Demographics" section, although I do not know if this is possible to obtain from census or other data. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241026151300-Trafford_Park" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:13, 26 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Drmies" title="User:Drmies">Drmies</a> removed the strike out of Eric Corbett's name with <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AFeatured_article_review%2FTrafford_Park%2Farchive1&diff=1253896224&oldid=1253544026">this edit</a>. The strike-out is to indicate that a notice was not sent to that editor for the stated reason. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241028132400-Z1720-20241026151300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:24, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes: removed as an unnecessary badge of shame. <a href="/wiki/User:Drmies" title="User:Drmies">Drmies</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Drmies" title="User talk:Drmies">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Drmies-20241028142000-Z1720-20241028132400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:20, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a>: I see that you did some edits to this article. Are you interested in bringing this back to FA status? <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241110162500-Drmies-20241028142000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:25, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241110171000-Z1720-20241110162500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:10, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a>: Awesome. Feel free to ping me when ready for a re-review. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241110171200-John-20241110171000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:12, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Wilco. I'm a little busy in real life but I should get to it this week.<a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241110191800-Z1720-20241110171200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm sorry this has taken longer than I anticipated. I'll get to it soon. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241119152900-John-20241110191800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:29, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Shoshone_National_Forest" data-mw-thread-id="h-Shoshone_National_Forest-Featured_article_reviews-20241012210300"><a href="/wiki/Shoshone_National_Forest" title="Shoshone National Forest">Shoshone National Forest</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Shoshone_National_Forest/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Shoshone National Forest">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MONGO" title="User talk:MONGO">MONGO</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Protected_areas" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Protected areas">WikiProject Protected areas</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_United_States" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States">WikiProject United States</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=1155074590">diff for talk page notification (2023-05-16)</a></dd></dl> Issues about this Featured Article—primarily, outdated info—were raised in January 2021. The article was then listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FARGIVEN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FARGIVEN">WP:FARGIVEN</a> in May 2023 when updates failed to materialize in the preceding year. Since then, other than rescuing dead links, no major updates have been made; a major contributor who is just now notified hasn't been active for at least one year. <a href="/wiki/User:George_Ho" title="User:George Ho">George Ho</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:George_Ho" title="User talk:George Ho">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-George_Ho-20241012210300-Shoshone_National_Forest" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)-Featured_article_reviews-20240829075800"><a href="/wiki/Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)" title="Lemurs of Madagascar (book)">Lemurs of Madagascar (book)</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Lemurs of Madagascar (book)">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maky" title="User talk:Maky">Maky</a> (page creator/nominator; formerly "VisionHolder"), <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Primates" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Primates">Primates</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Madagascar" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Madagascar">Madagascar</a></dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1244412712">.mw-parser-output .templatequote{overflow:hidden;margin:1em 0;padding:0 32px}.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{line-height:1.5em;text-align:left;margin-top:0}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .templatequotecite{padding-left:1.6em}}</style><blockquote class="templatequote"> "Bloated article; uses the [<a href="/wiki/Russell_Mittermeier" title="Russell Mittermeier">Mittermeier</a>] book that is the subject of article 44 times, out of about the 60 references given. Contains <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EXCESSIVE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EXCESSIVE">excessive detail</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PRIMARY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PRIMARY">primary sourcing</a>." <div class="templatequotecite">— <cite><a href="/wiki/User:Possibly" title="User:Possibly">Possibly</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Possibly" title="User talk:Possibly">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Possibly" title="Special:Contributions/Possibly">contribs</a>), May 2021 (links added for context by yours truly)</cite></div></blockquote> Cleanup-tag note says it all. Original article creator/FA nominator, <a href="/wiki/User:Maky" title="User:Maky">Maky</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maky" title="User talk:Maky">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Maky" title="Special:Contributions/Maky">contribs</a>), has been on WP in highly reduced capacity since late 2015. P.S. Can't believe it's been <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Genesis_(band)/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/Genesis (band)/archive1">17 years and change since I last sent a page for review</a>... <a href="/wiki/User:Slgrandson" title="User:Slgrandson">Slgrandson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Slgrandson" title="User talk:Slgrandson">How's my</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Slgrandson" title="Special:Contributions/Slgrandson">egg-throwing coleslaw?</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Slgrandson-20240829075800-Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:58, 29 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If folks think it merits keeping in some form, I'd be happy to take a pass at cutting it down -- way down. Much of it reads as puffery, and a lot of it redundant. I think there's some factual information that would be worth keeping, though.</dd> <dd>I'm not in the habit of gutting a page like I would want to do with this one, so just putting that out there. <a href="/wiki/User:Monkeywire" title="User:Monkeywire">Monkeywire</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Monkeywire" title="User talk:Monkeywire">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Monkeywire-20240904194400-Slgrandson-20240829075800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:44, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Monkeywire" title="User:Monkeywire">Monkeywire</a>: I'd support someone going through and cutting down the prose: there is too much puffery, and the "Overview" section should probably be renamed to "Background" and refocused. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240914022800-Monkeywire-20240904194400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:28, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I took a stab at editing. (It's so much easier to cut than to write!). Apologies in advance for any errors, but I think it's in better shape than it was before. <a href="/wiki/User:Monkeywire" title="User:Monkeywire">Monkeywire</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Monkeywire" title="User talk:Monkeywire">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Monkeywire-20240915165100-Z1720-20240914022800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:51, 15 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Just adding for the record that I think this is worth keeping now that it's not so bloated <a href="/wiki/User:Monkeywire" title="User:Monkeywire">Monkeywire</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Monkeywire" title="User talk:Monkeywire">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Monkeywire-20240922183900-Monkeywire-20240915165100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:39, 22 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Slgrandson" title="User:Slgrandson">Slgrandson</a>: Do the edits made address your concerns? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240928140500-Monkeywire-20240922183900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>: Better off. (Attempting to reach @<a href="/wiki/User:Maky" title="User:Maky">Maky</a> so that we can remind him of the progress, but an immediate reply is hardly guaranteed as he last edited in April.) --<a href="/wiki/User:Slgrandson" title="User:Slgrandson">Slgrandson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Slgrandson" title="User talk:Slgrandson">How's my</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Slgrandson" title="Special:Contributions/Slgrandson">egg-throwing coleslaw?</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Slgrandson-20240928164600-Nikkimaria-20240928140500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:46, 28 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div>Comment: I see an unsourced paragraph in "Editions". I also think the "Reception" section could be expanded upon, considering that several reviews are already used as inline citations. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241012030500-Lemurs_of_Madagascar_(book)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:05, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Comment @<a href="/wiki/User:Slgrandson" title="User:Slgrandson">Slgrandson</a>: I've gone ahead and undone <a href="/wiki/User:Monkeywire" title="User:Monkeywire">Monkeywire</a>'s changes while performing a very substantial but much more surgical cutdown of the article. It was bloated beyond belief, but I believe Monkeywire's decision to relegate the entire 'Reception' section to a paragraph and the entire summary/contents to a bullet pointed list of chapters dramatically hurt the article's comprehensiveness and turned it into something more akin to a C-class article (through no fault of their own; there really was so much extraneous stuff there). Some highlights of the changes I've made include: <ul><li>Word count and character count in the prose are both down a smidge over 28% (~21,050 characters down to ~15,100 and ~3,310 words down to ~2,240).</li> <li>I believe I have done this while retaining all the points which were present when this article was first reviewed.</li> <li>I do not believe this article could now be meaningfully reduced further without losing relevant, useful information.</li> <li>The brick wall of listed authors which made the 'Overview' section effectively unreadable has been moved into three explanatory footnotes – one for each edition. I believe this information about the authors is highly relevant and should remain but that it undeniably cannot remain in the prose.</li> <li>The descriptions of the appendices have been completely stripped out, as they were effectively obvious by the appendix titles alone.</li> <li>The mention of a Lemur News announcement has been removed owing to the fact that a sales pitch written by the book's authors does not constitute 'Reception'.</li> <li>The awkward, dangling lead paragraph of the 'Content' section about the front and back covers has been neatly folded into an already-existing sentence, so the section now starts with the "Introduction".</li> <li>The block quote from the "Introduction" section has been shortened and naturally folded into the sentence prior to where it originally was.</li> <li>Very obvious tangents such as how many lemurs a reviewer had spotted as well as tautologies such as (paraphrased) "this field guide helps identify lemurs in the field" have been taken out.</li> <li>Statements that could be expressed in substantially fewer words without loss of clarity have been amended.</li> <li>Not relevant to bloat per se, but I revised the summary of Lisa Gould's review to – I think – better reflect what she wrote.</li></ul></dd> <dd>My vote in the article's current state is to Keep the featured article status, as I believe it is now an excellent reference for this book's publication history, contents, reception, and impact on primatology. I tried to be descriptive with my edit summaries, so please feel free to peruse and see if you approve of the changes I've made. <a href="/wiki/User:TheTechnician27" title="User:TheTechnician27">TheTechnician27</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheTechnician27" title="User talk:TheTechnician27">(Talk page)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-TheTechnician27-20241015220200-Z1720-20241012030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:02, 15 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Not extremely familiar with FA standards, but I think the improvements above are very good and I would vote to maintain the status as a FA. I can't point out any problems. <a href="/wiki/User:PARAKANYAA" title="User:PARAKANYAA">PARAKANYAA</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PARAKANYAA" title="User talk:PARAKANYAA">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-PARAKANYAA-20241018214000-Z1720-20241012030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Slgrandson" title="User:Slgrandson">Slgrandson</a>: assuming that Maky is not going to respond, what are your thoughts on the article's status? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241102145400-Z1720-20241012030500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:54, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Pre-dreadnought_battleship" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pre-dreadnought_battleship-Featured_article_reviews-20240827225300"><a href="/wiki/Pre-dreadnought_battleship" title="Pre-dreadnought battleship">Pre-dreadnought battleship</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Pre-dreadnought_battleship/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Pre-dreadnought battleship">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Land" title="User talk:The Land">The Land</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blackeagle" title="User talk:Blackeagle">Blackeagle</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nigel_Ish" title="User talk:Nigel Ish">Nigel Ish</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Parsecboy" title="User talk:Parsecboy">Parsecboy</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history">WP MILHIST</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ships" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ships">WP Ships</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Pre-dreadnought_battleship&diff=prev&oldid=1134880320">noticed January 2023</a></dd></dl> Sadly, this key <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OMT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OMT">Operation Majestic Titan</a> article is no longer at the current standards. I voiced concerns on the article's talk page over a year and a half ago, but the only activity there since has been an IP raising minor accuracy concerns. As a MILHIST regular, I regret having to take this here, but I lack the sources and subject matter knowledge to resolve this concerns myself. Hopefully the outcome of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Ironclad_warship/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/Ironclad warship/archive1">Wikipedia:Featured article review/Ironclad warship/archive1</a> can be avoided. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20240827225300-Pre-dreadnought_battleship" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:53, 27 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I just skimmed the article's sourcing and agree that there are major formatting issues for the cites and bibliography. I can fix all that pretty easily. I'll see what more needs to be done after I do that and look at your comments on the talk page.--<a href="/wiki/User:Sturmvogel_66" title="User:Sturmvogel 66">Sturmvogel 66</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sturmvogel_66" title="User talk:Sturmvogel 66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sturmvogel_66-20240828002400-Hog_Farm-20240827225300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:24, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Man, I just started trying to figure out which actual book goes with some of the cites and I can't match them up! Furthermore, some of the pages cited don't relate to the material cited at all. I just deleted them and will cite them properly as I find time.--<a href="/wiki/User:Sturmvogel_66" title="User:Sturmvogel 66">Sturmvogel 66</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sturmvogel_66" title="User talk:Sturmvogel 66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sturmvogel_66-20240829022400-Sturmvogel_66-20240828002400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:24, 29 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Sturmvogel_66" title="User:Sturmvogel 66">Sturm</a>, is that work that you anticipate could be done within FAR? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240914172200-Sturmvogel_66-20240829022400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:22, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think so; I'll try not to drag it out as long as I did for Wisconsin and Missouri.--<a href="/wiki/User:Sturmvogel_66" title="User:Sturmvogel 66">Sturmvogel 66</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sturmvogel_66" title="User talk:Sturmvogel 66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sturmvogel_66-20240914205800-Nikkimaria-20240914172200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:58, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Sturmvogel_66" title="User:Sturmvogel 66">Sturm</a>, any update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241102144100-Sturmvogel_66-20240914205800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:41, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>I'm in the process of moving, so little to nothing until December--<a href="/wiki/User:Sturmvogel_66" title="User:Sturmvogel 66">Sturmvogel 66</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sturmvogel_66" title="User talk:Sturmvogel 66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sturmvogel_66-20241112091800-Nikkimaria-20241102144100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:18, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>, I intend to work on this. On my read through I see 20 small paragraphs which don't have citations. Also, there are a few long paragraphs which only have 1 citation, so I will try to add more. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241110141100-Nikkimaria-20241102144100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Northrop_YF-23" data-mw-thread-id="h-Northrop_YF-23-Featured_article_reviews-20240520223300"><a href="/wiki/Northrop_YF-23" title="Northrop YF-23">Northrop YF-23</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Northrop_YF-23/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Northrop YF-23">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Example_user" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Example user">Example user</a>, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Example_WikiProject&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Wikipedia talk:Example WikiProject (page does not exist)">Example WikiProject</a>, [diff for talk page notification]</dd></dl> I am nominating this featured article for review because over the past few months, I've added a considerably amount of additional information about the aircraft's design history gathered from multiple sources. The prose has doubled in length, so I would like other editors to review my work to ensure that it still meets FA standards. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240520223300-Northrop_YF-23" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 20 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a>, did you discuss this on the article's talk page at all? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240521044800-Steve7c8-20240520223300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:48, 21 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Negative. However, given the amount of content added since it was last listed as FA over a decade ago such that it has more than doubled in size, with much of the new prose written by myself, I believe that this warrants a FA review especially from a neutral party to ensure that it meets the quality standards. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240521045900-Nikkimaria-20240521044800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:59, 21 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Could <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">you</a> please notify other editors and relevant WikiProjects? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240522004600-Steve7c8-20240521045900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 22 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a>, I've worked a little bit on the article. I believe you have the technical knowledge of the subject, while I can do source and reference formatting. I changed the sources to cite book or cite journal templates, and changed some of the references to sfn tags. Would this and any further work I do on formatting be okay with you? <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240612060900-Steve7c8-20240520223300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:09, 12 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The changes look good. I'll notify some other editors and relevant WikiProjects to have another go at it. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240615154800-Matarisvan-20240612060900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:48, 15 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi Steve, we need a link for the Aerospace Daily article, otherwise any reviewer doing spotchecks would fail the source review. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240616125200-Steve7c8-20240615154800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:52, 16 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The original link from years ago is gone and I don’t think it’s ever been archived, but it’s transcribed in a forum post <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/natf-planned-navy-versions-of-the-f-22-and-f-23.2730/page-4#post-159435">here</a>, which I’m not sure is considered adequate. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240616155600-Matarisvan-20240616125200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:56, 16 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Can you post the link here, I can search for it on archival sites. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240618092700-Steve7c8-20240616155600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:27, 18 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Unfortunately I don't have the original link. Perhaps search for key words and phrases in that article that's transcribed in the forum post? <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240618234400-Matarisvan-20240618092700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 18 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Then we'll have to remove this reference, we already have another one (Chong 2016) at the same place. Is that OK with you? <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240619130800-Steve7c8-20240618234400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:08, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That's fine then. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240619212300-Matarisvan-20240619130800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Also, @<a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a>, do you have access to either of Sweetman 1991a or 1991b? I put in these in the sfn tags on a placeholder basis as I wasn't able to get access to them. This is the last thing left to do here, once it is done we can safely say the article is back again at FA level. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240620163000-Steve7c8-20240619212300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:30, 20 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Currently I don't. I have limited access to these sources as I'm in the middle of an SLTE currently, but in a few days I'll check my shelves. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240623192200-Matarisvan-20240620163000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>As a follow-up, @<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a>, a friend of mine has hard copies of these publications, I can borrow them if need be. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240709144500-Matarisvan-20240620163000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:45, 9 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Both of these, @<a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a>? That would be great, we would be able to finally close this FA review. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240709145000-Steve7c8-20240709144500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:50, 9 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a>, I'm not quite sure how to Wikimail these sources. My friend has the physical books on hand which I borrowed. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240903183000-Matarisvan-20240709145000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:30, 3 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You would just need to photograph the pages we have cited here, and attach these photographs to an email which you can send through Wikipedia. Also, I'll be reviewing the YF-22 article at ACR soon, I haven't forgotten about it, just have too much work both on WP and IRL. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240903183400-Steve7c8-20240903183000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:34, 3 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> I have emailed you one of them, working to borrow the other book again to get pictures. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20241010131400-Matarisvan-20240903183400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:14, 10 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a>, received. Working on spot checks on refs cited to this source. Cheers <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241013134800-Steve7c8-20241010131400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:48, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> I have emailed you the other one. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20241023204500-Matarisvan-20241013134800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:45, 23 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Comments <ul><li>What establishes that Speciality Press located at Forest Lake, Minnesota has a reputation for fact checking, etc? The article is cites several works published by this company, which appears to lack and internet presence.</li> <li>If File:FB-23 Rapid Theater Attack.png is a Northrop Grumman image as stated, it's been wrongly uploaded. The source PDF doesn't establish that it was released under a creative commons licence.</li> <li>I suspect that none of the external links are needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Nick-D" title="User:Nick-D">Nick-D</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nick-D" title="User talk:Nick-D">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nick-D-20240711004500-Northrop_YF-23" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:45, 11 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>I'm not familiar with Specialty Press overall and I believe they went under just recently. However, the cited books in this article are written by people with direct connections to the YF-23, namely Alfred "Paul" Metz, YF-23 PAV-1 test pilot, and Air Force Materiel Command researchers and archiver, Tony Landis and reputed aviation author Dennis Jenkins.</li> <li>If that is the case, I can upload a non-free thumbnail version under fair use.</li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20240713001300-Nick-D-20240711004500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241012140500-Nick-D-20240711004500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:05, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>, I believe we may be able to put up this FAR for votes soon. I just received scans of Sweetman 1991b from @<a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a>, now to complete my review I only need scans of Sweetman 1991a, which could be available soon. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241013134800-Nikkimaria-20241012140500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:48, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> I have Wiki-mailed pictures of both sources to you. Do we have enough to close out this review? <a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve7c8" title="User talk:Steve7c8">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Steve7c8-20241029145200-Matarisvan-20241013134800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Steve7c8" title="User:Steve7c8">Steve7c8</a>, I did spot checks for both sources and all of them seem to be ok. I can conclude my review, but the votes of other reviewers will be needed for the review to be closed fully. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241120161900-Steve7c8-20241029145200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:19, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nick-D" title="User:Nick-D">Nick-D</a>, before you leave for your break, could we have your vote? <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241013134900-Nick-D-20240711004500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:49, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="1880_Republican_National_Convention" data-mw-thread-id="h-1880_Republican_National_Convention-Featured_article_reviews-20240504175700"><a href="/wiki/1880_Republican_National_Convention" title="1880 Republican National Convention">1880 Republican National Convention</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/1880_Republican_National_Convention/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: 1880 Republican National Convention">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishkid64" title="User talk:Nishkid64">Nishkid64</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coemgenus" title="User talk:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Billmckern" title="User talk:Billmckern">Billmckern</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tilden76" title="User talk:Tilden76">Tilden76</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Devonian_Wombat" title="User talk:Devonian Wombat">Devonian Wombat</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:-A-M-B-1996-" title="User talk:-A-M-B-1996-">-A-M-B-1996-</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Politics" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics">WP Politics</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Chicago" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chicago">WP Chicago</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Illinois" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Illinois">WP Illinois</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_United_States" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United States">WP USA</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Elections_and_Referendums" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elections and Referendums">WP Elections and Referendums</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:1880_Republican_National_Convention&diff=prev&oldid=1190627246">noticed in December 2023 with prior issues raised in 2015</a></dd></dl> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1880_Republican_National_Convention&oldid=154288592">As originally promoted</a>, this 2007 FA included a number of references to varied sources. However, in 2015, it was discovered on the talk page that essentially the editor just read the Ackerman book and threw in citations from Ackerman's notes, even though those sources did not entirely support the cited content. I ran into a similar problem from this same editor when I rewrote <a href="/wiki/Thomas_C._Hindman" title="Thomas C. Hindman">Thomas C. Hindman</a>, another old FA promotion, several years ago. <a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> resolved many of the issues in 2015 but the article is still very heavily reliant on Ackerman alone. I also, in December 2023, found that there are still a number of smaller source-text integrity issues and that the citation placement is messed up. Awhile back, this article was suggested to potentially rerun as TFA with the upcoming Republican National Convention later this year, but I don't think that is a good idea given the sourcing history here. Given my experiences with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/J._R._Richard/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/J. R. Richard/archive1">Wikipedia:Featured article review/J. R. Richard/archive1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Lee_Smith_(baseball)/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/Lee Smith (baseball)/archive1">Wikipedia:Featured article review/Lee Smith (baseball)/archive1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Talk:Thomas_C._Hindman#Uncited_paras/sentences_etc" title="Talk:Thomas C. Hindman">Talk:Thomas C. Hindman#Uncited paras/sentences etc</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Talk:Stede_Bonnet#Featured_article_review_needed" title="Talk:Stede Bonnet">Talk:Stede Bonnet#Featured article review needed</a> I have grave concerns about the sourcing from any FA nominations by this nominator. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20240504175700-1880_Republican_National_Convention" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:57, 4 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Move to FARC no major edits to address sourcing concerns. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240519163700-Hog_Farm-20240504175700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:37, 19 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>I did not write this one, though I have edited and have access to the sources. Is the concern here that some particular sources are inaccurate, or just that there might be problems? I'd be glad to run a spotcheck on the citations and see if it's good. --<a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coemgenus" title="User talk:Coemgenus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Coemgenus-20240521141200-Hog_Farm-20240504175700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:12, 21 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> - I compared passages to parts of Ackerman several months ago and have found that the big ideas are all supported, but a number of the smaller details are not. I'm also generally uneasy with the content here after my experience with re-writing <a href="/wiki/Thomas_C._Hindman" title="Thomas C. Hindman">Thomas C. Hindman</a>, another FA by the same nominator, where the article was based only on one book to the neglect of information in other sources, omitted major information (Hindman being suspended from command for awhile), and contained factual errors (incorrectly claiming that Hindman was present for the Chattanooga actions after Chickamauga), in addition to the sources failing spot-checks. A spotcheck here would be greatly appreciated. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20240521142000-Coemgenus-20240521141200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:20, 21 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li><ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a>: Are you still planning on looking at this? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240608200200-Coemgenus-20240521141200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 8 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Sorry, yes, I will look at it this week. --<a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coemgenus" title="User talk:Coemgenus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Coemgenus-20240609214300-Nikkimaria-20240608200200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 9 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>I looked at every tenth citation to see if they lined up with what was being cited:</li></ul></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>fn.10 -- Hesseltine p. 432 contains the quoted language and the sentiment it expresses.</dd> <dd>fn.20 -- Ackerman makes both points on p. 74 and the quoted headline is there.</dd> <dd>fn.30 -- Ackerman pp.66-67 does say this.</dd> <dd>fn.40 -- Cites Ackerman p. 58 for two points. the phrasing is a little awkward, but it's accurate.</dd> <dd>fn.50 -- Cites Ackerman p. 83 for two quotes, both accurate.</dd> <dd>fn.60 -- Cites Ackerman p. 91 for three points and two quotes, all accurate.</dd> <dd>fn.70 -- Cites Ackerman p. 103-104 for two points, both accurate.</dd> <dd>fn.80 -- Cites Ackerman p. 116 for two points. Both accurate, but the parenthetical near the second point wasn't in the source (it is true, though). So I moved the citation to the right spot.</dd> <dd>fn.90 -- I had trouble accessing this -- the Questia page wouldn't load. I found the book <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/statisticalhisto0000pete/page/48/mode/2up">on the Internet Archive</a>, though, and it's correct.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Since most of those random citations were to the same book, I picked out a few others to check.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>fn.53 -- Cites Muzzey p. 169 -- the quotation and the meaning of the sentence are both accurate.</dd> <dd>fn.59 -- Cites Clancy pp. 104-105 for two points including quotations. This is the first problem I found. Clancy and Ackerman both cite a letter from Joseph H. Geiger to John Sherman, but where Clancy summarizes the content, Ackerman quotes it directly. The author of this article uses the direct quote, as found in Ackerman, but cites it to Clancy, which is incorrect.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I think this article relies too heavily on Ackerman's book, but where it does so, it does so accurately. Where it cites other sources, in at least one instance, it does not do so faithfully. There's not much to fix here, but it should be fixed. I have nearly all of these books, so I guess I should be the one to fix it? --<a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coemgenus" title="User talk:Coemgenus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Coemgenus-20240613180400-Nikkimaria-20240608200200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 13 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a>, it does not appear anyone else is stepping forward - is this something you're willing and able to do, or should this proceed? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240713012400-Coemgenus-20240613180400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:24, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>, I apologize, I've been swamped. I'll get started on it this weekend. The Ackerman citations are all good, it's just the others I need to clean up. Shouldn't take long. I hope! --<a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coemgenus" title="User talk:Coemgenus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Coemgenus-20240714021400-Nikkimaria-20240713012400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>, I've gone through and checked the cites, especially those not to Ackerman. After a few changes, I think everything is accurate now. --<a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coemgenus" title="User talk:Coemgenus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Coemgenus-20240725011600-Nikkimaria-20240713012400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:16, 25 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a>: ↑ <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240727215300-Coemgenus-20240725011600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 27 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'll try to take a look at this over the weekend. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20240802022800-Nikkimaria-20240727215300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:28, 2 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>This looks mostly fine, but I'm a bit concerned about the heavy reliance on Ackerman. <a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a>, noting that you've done work on a number of articles related to this election, do you think that this article is a "it is a thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature" as required by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FACR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FACR">the featured article criteria</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20240803222200-Hog_Farm-20240802022800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 3 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think it is. If I were writing it from scratch, I'd vary the sources more, but everything seems accurate since the last changes I made. I could change a few of them to other sources, but it wouldn't change the text, since multiple sources all say the same thing. --<a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coemgenus" title="User talk:Coemgenus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Coemgenus-20240805234500-Hog_Farm-20240803222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>If Coemgenus, wikipedia's subject matter expert on the 1880 election, is okay with this, then I think I'm at a keep. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20240809011200-Hog_Farm-20240504175700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:12, 9 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a>: Given the above, what are your thoughts? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240914172500-Hog_Farm-20240809011200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I am still concerned about the overreliance on Ackerman as inline citations. I did a Google Scholar search for "1880 Republican National Convention" and found additional sources that might be used in the article. Has there been a search for additional sources that could be added to the article? I also went through the article and removed repetitive, subsequent refs to the same citation and I'll change images from px to upright momentarily. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240914195900-Nikkimaria-20240914172500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:59, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241012140600-Z1720-20240914195900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:06, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>As I said above, I think the cites are now fully accurate. I could change some of them to other books, if I have to, but they all say the same thing — these are mostly undisputed facts about the convention. —<a href="/wiki/User:Coemgenus" title="User:Coemgenus">Coemgenus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coemgenus" title="User talk:Coemgenus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Coemgenus-20241012215100-Nikkimaria-20241012140600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:51, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>I have examined an arbitrary few of the footnotes:</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>n 12: the Evans article confirms that the three political bosses backed Grant.</li> <li>n 22: the quote is accurately reproduced from pp.75–76 of Ackerman (2003).</li> <li>n 33: Ackerman, p.67 directly asserts that that lawyer was hired by Garfield.</li> <li>n 43: examining Ackerman, p.58–66, it seems clear that ruling, the word used in our article, does not quite capture the nuance of Gorham's involvement. This was a committee meeting of a political party conference. The chairman was determined to exclude the nomination but he was not experienced in parliamentary procedure, so he was advised by Gorman, who was specially present at the meeting and filling a sort of clerk–participant–gadfly role, in a way that to modern eyes would seem intolerably unprofessional. The source says that the nominee's team would make a motion and Gorman would speak his view on why, procedurally, the motion had to fail or was out of order. After Gorman, the chairman would each time say afterwards, "So ruled". Cameron therefore gave the rulings and relied on the advice or the reasoning of Gorham. I am inclined to think this a one-off case of misunderstanding the nuanced meaning of so ruled rather than a genuine academic error. I think that any non-native English speaker could misuse ruling to describe Gorman's involvement. Word choice aside, the sentence is factually accurate.</li></ul></dd> <dd>The concern underlying this FAR was that the article's original nominator possibly has a record of sourcing misuse. I have to say that nothing of the sort seems to have happened with this article. While we could carry on checking the footnotes, I am not sure that anything found so far suggests that the article would not pass FAC today, and I don't find that likely to change. This review should end here. <a href="/wiki/User:Arcticocean" title="User:Arcticocean">arcticocean ■</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Arcticocean-20241116000000-Hog_Farm-20240504175700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:00, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Edward_I_of_England" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edward_I_of_England-Featured_article_reviews-20240220210500"><a href="/wiki/Edward_I_of_England" title="Edward I of England">Edward I of England</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Edward I of England">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Unlimitedlead" title="User talk:Unlimitedlead">Unlimitedlead</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dudley_Miles" title="User talk:Dudley Miles">Dudley Miles</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ealdgyth" title="User talk:Ealdgyth">Ealdgyth</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Usernamesarebunk" title="User talk:Usernamesarebunk">Usernamesarebunk</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lampman" title="User talk:Lampman">Lampman</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hchc2009" title="User talk:Hchc2009">Hchc2009</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoldRingChip" title="User talk:GoldRingChip">GoldRingChip</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gog_the_Mild" title="User talk:Gog the Mild">Gog the Mild</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Surtsicna" title="User talk:Surtsicna">Surtsicna</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nev1" title="User talk:Nev1">Nev1</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mike_Christie" title="User talk:Mike Christie">Mike Christie</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:England" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:England">England</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Wales" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales">WikiProject Wales</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Scotland" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scotland">WikiProject Scotland</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Ireland" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:Ireland">Ireland</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Jewish_history" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jewish history">Jewish history</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Middle_Ages" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Middle Ages">Middle Ages</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Military_history" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:Military history">Military history</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_English_Royalty" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject English Royalty">WikiProject English Royalty</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AEdward_I_of_England&diff=1209309216&oldid=1209211290">diff for talk page notification</a></dd></dl> I am nominating this featured article for review because, during the FA process the article went through, three large areas of historical research were omitted. Thus currently it does not meet the criteria that the article needs to be: <ul><li>1.b comprehensive: it neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context and</li> <li>1.c well-researched: it is a thorough and representative survey of the relevant literature</li></ul> I have since addressed one of those, but had no feedback. I intend to address the other two but would like to ensure my work is reviewed as I do so. The areas that were not addressed during the FAC process were <ol><li>Anglo-Jewish historical research: Edward's actions are a large subject of discussion in this literature, which contends that he has particular significance for the history of antisemitism and for English identity, which incorporated an antisemitic element as a result of the expulsion. (These topics were notably missed in Prestwich.) These issues have now been addressed to a minimum level by myself but need a check for FA standards.</li> <li>Welsh history: Edward I is of particular significance to Welsh history. Edward is typically seen by Welsh medievalists as a coloniser, someone who did immense damage to Welsh society, culture and self-confidence, which produced a lasting anger. These items need expanding in the "Legacy" section at least. The literature on Edward I from a Welsh perspective was unfortunately contended not to exist during FA review.</li> <li>Irish history: The literature on Ireland was not consulted; Ireland is not covered in the article at all, except to mention Edward governed it and it provided him income. Themes include the early takeover by Edward and some squabbling with his father; Edward treating Ireland as a revenue source and little else; corruption and incompetence in the administrators Edward appointed and repeatedly sacked; over-taxation to meet his war demands; speculation over food exports during the Welsh and Gascon wars; problems emerging from the Edwardian weak administration including a revival of the fortunes of the Gaelic areas' leadership, leading to regular wars in the period and following centuries. Thus although an absentee landlord, current Irish historical research sees him as signficant for the difficulties of Ireland that continued in the centuries following.</li></ol> Additionally, a check should be made regarding Scottish sources and perspectives. These areas should also be looked at: <ul><li>Religious views: the article may not fully capture the nature of Edward's devotion. It covers his piety as actions, rather than as a belief system. There is commentary about his and Eleanor's piety giving them a sense that they were doing God's work, which makes sense as Crusaders, and explains better his sense of certainty while doing morally reprehensible things.</li> <li>Relations with Eleanor: particularly, the support of and the psychological impact of the loss of Eleanor and some of Edward's key advisors around 1290 is often held to have impacted the latter part of his reign. This doesn't seem to be discussed. Also, Edward encouraged Eleanor to accumulate land wealth to reduce the call on his own funds, which was an important change for future queens but impacted a lot on domestic relations with the landed classes who were being dispossessed; it limited what he could do with taxation and was a driver in his policies towards the Jews. This is now touched on this but it could do with discussion earlier.</li></ul> The reasons for several of these areas being missed appear to include an over-reliance on <a href="/wiki/Michael_Prestwich" title="Michael Prestwich">Michael Prestwich</a>'s biography. It received significant academic criticism for missing several of these areas, and being overly concerned with war administration and finance; which I have noted on his Wikipedia page. Key texts that need consulting include: <ul><li>For Wales, "The Age of Conquest: Wales 1063-1415" by <a href="/wiki/Rees_Davies" title="Rees Davies">RR Davies</a> from 2001, and A History of Wales by John Davies.</li> <li>For Ireland, "A new history of Ireland Volume II 1169-1534", which contains a dedicated chapter on Edward's Lordship, "The years of Crisis, 1254-1315" and a further chapter on the wars that were provoked in the period "A Land of War", both by <a href="/wiki/James_Lydon_(historian)" title="James Lydon (historian)">James Lydon</a>. There is by Robin Frame, "Ireland and Britain 1170 to 1450", and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.tcd.ie/medieval-history/expertise/robin-frame.php">other works</a></li></ul> As mentioned, I would not like to see this article demoted and I am willing to do the work on Wales and Ireland particularly, and anything further on Anglo-Jewish matters. There is a question on structure for that section also. A point may emerge around article length and there may need to be cuts to meet FA criteria. This I would certainly need help with. If it is better that I simply work on these areas, complete that and bring the article back to FAR afterwards I can do that. But I haven't got much feedback on the page and feel reluctant to do more work without a little guidance. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240220210500-Edward_I_of_England" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 20 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Comment_by_KJP1" data-mw-thread-id="h-Comment_by_KJP1-Edward_I_of_England-20240221083300">Comment by KJP1</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Comment by KJP1">edit</a>]</div> My view is that a FAR, a year after the article's promotion, is not needed. If I can try and summarise, you think there are three areas where something/more needs to be said; <dl><dd><ul><li>Edward and the Jews;</li> <li>Edward and Wales;</li> <li>Edward and Ireland;</li></ul></dd></dl> and two areas that may need a bit more coverage: <dl><dd><ul><li>Edward's religiosity;</li> <li>Edward and Eleanor.</li></ul></dd></dl> My suggestion would be that you write brief, sourced, paragraphs on each of these, covering the additional points you think need to be made, and place them on the article Talkpage. Then, see what other involved/interested editors think. I stress brief for two reasons - firstly, your comments to date are rather long and this may discourage editors from engaging with them; secondly, there are always challenges around what to include, and not include, in an FA. Edward reigned for 35 years and packed a lot in, as well as being quite busy before his accession. Therefore, you're never going to be able to cover everything. Indeed, we already have spin-offs, e.g. <a href="/wiki/Conquest_of_Wales_by_Edward_I" title="Conquest of Wales by Edward I">Conquest of Wales by Edward I</a>, <a href="/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion" title="Edict of Expulsion">Edict of Expulsion</a> etc. and it may well be that further spin-offs, Edward and the Jews / Edward in Ireland etc. could be an answer. <a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJP1" title="User talk:KJP1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-KJP1-20240221083300-Comment_by_KJP1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 21 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm happy with that but I'd note the main reason for non-engagement AFAICT is probably that the main editor is in semi-retirement and no longer working on the page. There will be existing pages for all these topics, but for an FA standard, the page has to reasonably represent all the relevant literatures, AIUI, ie, other parts might need trimming, if it came to a question of overall length. As now the article arguably violates NPOV, through omission of some of the more uncomfortable aspects of his reign.<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240221085700-KJP1-20240221083300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:57, 21 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>I suspect that the OP has found sufficient deficiencies in the article to justify a trip to FAR. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FAOWN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FAOWN">policy</a>, if they attempted any major changes they could be reverted, while the talk page is quiet enough to suggest it would be an unprofitable exercise.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>In the meantime they have built a solid case. They have identified fundamental omissions which don't only breach WP:FA? but Wikipedia policy and pillar also.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>More broadly, it highlights the problem with a lack of expertise at FAC. There may not be always much we can do about that, but we must accept the consequences of it all the same. While the review of this article received an at first glance thorough examination, with the exception of a couple, most of the reviews were for prose and spelling and the source review lightweight. The latter, at least, could have e highlighted gaps in the scholarship.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>Still, it's not too late. I'm sure we're all grateful to <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">JimKillock</a> for highlighting these issues and for expressing willingness to step up to the mark and address them. Cheers! <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129">——Serial</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Serial_Number_54129-20240221123700-KJP1-20240221083300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:37, 21 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Either way, FAR or Talkpage, it would be immensely helpful if JimK could provide suggested paragraphs for inclusion, which would look to address the said omissions. I think that would greatly assist other editors in assessing the issues, and how they might be addressed in the article, having regard to weight, length etc. <a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJP1" title="User talk:KJP1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-KJP1-20240221153200-Serial_Number_54129-20240221123700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:32, 21 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I will crack on with this for sure. It may take me a few days to find time to start; altogether I would think probably 3-4 weeks are needed for me to find spare time to look at all the things I've mentioned. The Wales paras are the easiest for me. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240221164200-KJP1-20240221153200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:42, 21 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No hurry and no problem! Edward I is not my period, but I do have some experience of compressing prose into tight, FA, pargraphs. If I can help at all in terms of reviewing the prose, I'd be delighted. Serial is your man for reviewing the content. All the best. <a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJP1" title="User talk:KJP1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-KJP1-20240221175400-JimKillock-20240221164200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:54, 21 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks both of you for the kind words and offers of (potential!) help. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240221220700-KJP1-20240221175400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 21 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a>@<a href="/wiki/User:Serial_Number_54129" title="User:Serial Number 54129">Serial Number 54129</a>Ping in case you are able to help: I've linked to the work I have already done for checking re Anglo-Jewish policies, and drafted the changes regarding Wales from Welsh sources below. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240310184500-JimKillock-20240221220700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 10 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">JimKillock</a> - Not forgotten this, just busy irl this week. Will take a look at the weekend. <a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJP1" title="User talk:KJP1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-KJP1-20240314083000-JimKillock-20240310184500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:30, 14 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Edward's_Jewish_policies:_text_check" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edward's_Jewish_policies:_text_check-Edward_I_of_England">Edward's Jewish policies: text check</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: Edward's Jewish policies: text check">edit</a>]</div> Moved to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1#Jewish_policies_review:_From_main_page_as_mostly_resolved" title="Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Edward I of England/archive1">talk page</a> to simplify feedback <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Wales_I:_Edward_I_of_England#Conquest_of_Wales" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wales_I:_Edward_I_of_England#Conquest_of_Wales-Edward_I_of_England">Wales I: <a href="/wiki/Edward_I_of_England#Conquest_of_Wales" title="Edward I of England">Edward I of England#Conquest of Wales</a></h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-4" title="Edit section: Wales I: Edward I of England#Conquest of Wales">edit</a>]</div> Moved to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1#Wales_section_moved_to_talk_as_mostly_resolved" title="Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Edward I of England/archive1">talk page</a> as mostly resolved <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Wales_II:_Edward_I_of_England#Legacy" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wales_II:_Edward_I_of_England#Legacy-Edward_I_of_England">Wales II: <a href="/wiki/Edward_I_of_England#Legacy" title="Edward I of England">Edward I of England#Legacy</a></h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-5" title="Edit section: Wales II: Edward I of England#Legacy">edit</a>]</div> Moved to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1#Wales_II:_Edward_I_of_England#Legacy" title="Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Edward I of England/archive1">talk page</a> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Ireland" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ireland-Edward_I_of_England">Ireland</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-6" title="Edit section: Ireland">edit</a>]</div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Next_steps" data-mw-thread-id="h-Next_steps-Edward_I_of_England-20240312191100">Next steps</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-7" title="Edit section: Next steps">edit</a>]</div> I will try to write up the section on Ireland next, once I have <a href="#CITEREFDavies1998">Davies 1998</a> harvnb error: no target: CITEREFDavies1998 (<a href="/wiki/Category:Harv_and_Sfn_template_errors" title="Category:Harv and Sfn template errors">help</a>) British Isles book. I have access to the two volumes on Ireland, <a href="#CITEREFFrame1998">Frame 1998</a> harvnb error: no target: CITEREFFrame1998 (<a href="/wiki/Category:Harv_and_Sfn_template_errors" title="Category:Harv and Sfn template errors">help</a>) and <a href="#CITEREFLydon2008a">Lydon 2008a</a> harvnb error: no target: CITEREFLydon2008a (<a href="/wiki/Category:Harv_and_Sfn_template_errors" title="Category:Harv and Sfn template errors">help</a>) mentioned. --<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240312191100-Next_steps" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Comments_from_KJP1" data-mw-thread-id="h-Comments_from_KJP1-Edward_I_of_England-20240319073700">Comments from KJP1</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-8" title="Edit section: Comments from KJP1">edit</a>]</div> With apologies for the delay in getting to this, a few comments. A caveat to start, Edwardian history is definitely not my period, and thus what I'm not able to judge is the weight that would be appropriate to give to the differing views on the Jewish and Welsh (and subsequently Irish) issues. That said: <ul><li>In general, the suggested additions to the Jewish/Welsh issues seem quite reasonable.</li> <li>In relation to the Jewish issue, we now have two, well-sourced, paragraphs, featuring a range of views. These seem reasonable. I'm not myself quite clear on the connection that is being drawn between the tomb of Little St Hugh and the Eleanor Crosses. The text says "is likely to have been an attempt by Edward"; it seems to be suggesting more than just a stylistic similarity, but some form of connected political aim. Is it possible to make it clearer? <ul><li>The background is that they were built in the same style by the same craftsmen working for the Royal household. This has led historians to pick up on a linked political purpose, as both are political objects. Since Eleanor had an "unsavoury" reputation regarding Jewish loans and land seizures, it is most likely that she was being associated with the cult of St Hugh, in order to "clean up" her reputation, as someone who venerated a Christian child supposedly ritually murdered by Jews. However, although the evidence is quite clear, it is also historians making educated calculations, not a matter of simple fact. At the same time, Edward's promotion of the cult is absolutely established and his purpose entirely clear. I'll take another look as the point re Eleanor is a difficult point to convey. --<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240319093500-Comments_from_KJP1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:35, 19 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Checking, I had placed this information into an end note, regarding the link between the Eleanor crosses and the tomb design. I could edit the main body, to say something like "creating a visual association" or "probably to associate Eleanor's memory with the cult". --<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240319121500-JimKillock-20240319093500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:15, 19 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>What I can't judge is whether the emphasis given to this issue by historians would warrant it being a separate section. It would, of necessity, still be quite brief. That said, a 4.4. would not seem too problematic?</li> <li>Wales - moving the coverage of the 1287/1294 rebellions further down seems reasonable, and creates a better chronology. The other changes don't seem controversial to me.</li> <li>Legacy - losing the sentence on contemporary English views of the Welsh campaigns again doesn't seem controversial, it's not directly sourced. Where I would diverge from JimK is in ditching Morris and having only the views of Welsh historians, Davies/Davies. Include them, certainly, but not exclusively. <ul><li>Just quickly on this: the current "Legacy" structure is "views on Edward, from an older English; modern English; Scottish; Welsh; Ango-Jewish perspective", rather than dealing with aspects of his reign.</li> <li>I think more fruitful that pro contra on each aspect may be to bring the question of Edward and the English Crown as either an English or British phenomenon, and the associated power dynamics into focus, as this has been an area of active discussion (there's 3-4 histories written like this, not yet consulted, noted below). The question raised by Morris (was it justified) isn't really discussed in the literature (much?) AFAICT, it was just <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Edward_I_of_England/archive1#CommentsSupport_by_Borsoka" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Edward I of England/archive1">used as a proxy answer to "Do we have information about Welsh historians' view of Edward?"</a> as a reviewer noted this was missing. --<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240319091600-JimKillock-20240319093500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:16, 19 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>And I would tweak the clause "R. R. Davies finds Edward to engage in the 'gratuitous belittling of his opponents', being 'one of the most consistent and unattractive features of his character as King'" to read something like "R. R. Davies considered Edward's repeated and 'gratuitous belittling of his opponents', to have been 'one of the most consistent and unattractive features of his character as king'".</li></ul> <ul><li>Character - following on from the above, it would seem reasonable to reflect something of this in the "Character" section. It doesn't currently have anything on how he was/is seem from a Scottish/Welsh/Irish perspective, and that would be useful to have. But it would again need to be quite brief.</li></ul> I hope that editors with much greater knowledge of Edward will be able to chip in, particularly on the issue of DUE which buidhe notes above. <a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJP1" title="User talk:KJP1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-KJP1-20240319073700-Comments_from_KJP1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:37, 19 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks very much for this @<a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a>. I'll wait some further feedback before making edits. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240319091900-KJP1-20240319073700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:19, 19 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240420040300-Comments_from_KJP1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:03, 20 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks @<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>; I have been busy with other things but want to do the Ireland section next. This won't be so much work as looking at Scotland, and the British context, both of which need me to do significant reading. I think I may as well transpose the edits re Wales at this point. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240511092000-Nikkimaria-20240420040300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:20, 11 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Irish section drafted <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240530180900-JimKillock-20240511092000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:09, 30 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Feedback_requested" data-mw-thread-id="h-Feedback_requested-Edward_I_of_England-20240616092800">Feedback requested</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-9" title="Edit section: Feedback requested">edit</a>]</div> I've done most of what I hope to do now, I might tidy up some Scottish points later but for me the FAR changes are done. If @<a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> or @<a href="/wiki/User:Serial_Number_54129" title="User:Serial Number 54129">Serial Number 54129</a> or anyone else has feedback I would be very grateful. Pings to @<a href="/wiki/User:Unlimitedlead" title="User:Unlimitedlead">Unlimitedlead</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Dudley_Miles" title="User:Dudley Miles">Dudley Miles</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Ealdgyth" title="User:Ealdgyth">Ealdgyth</a>, @<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Usernamesarebunk&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Usernamesarebunk (page does not exist)">Usernamesarebunk</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Lampman" title="User:Lampman">Lampman</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Hchc2009" title="User:Hchc2009">Hchc2009</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:GoldRingChip" title="User:GoldRingChip">GoldRingChip</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Gog_the_Mild" title="User:Gog the Mild">Gog the Mild</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Surtsicna" title="User:Surtsicna">Surtsicna</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Nev1" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Nev1">Nev1</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Mike_Christie" title="User:Mike Christie">Mike Christie</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240616092800-Feedback_requested" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:28, 16 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a>, could you move your notes and resolved commentary to the review talk page? This one's getting a bit hard to follow at this point, and that may be discouraging others from weighing in. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240629182600-JimKillock-20240616092800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:26, 29 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> I've moved the notes and commentary I can move and linked to them. Hope that helps. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240702075200-Nikkimaria-20240629182600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:52, 2 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a>: How are things looking from your perspective? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240720151800-JimKillock-20240616092800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:18, 20 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> - Sorry, missed this one. To me the changes suggested are sound, and the research very solid. I do wonder whether there is sometimes a little too much detail for our summary style. But my real problem is that I'm not a specialist in this period, and as such I cannot make an informed assessment on "weight". It really needs, another, Edwardian specialist to weigh in. And those will be few and far to find! <a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJP1" title="User talk:KJP1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-KJP1-20240727063800-Nikkimaria-20240720151800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:38, 27 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you @<a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>. A copy edit / check / tightening of prose could be done on my changes. Someone could check for issues with source and cite styles. I'm sure there's room for some cutting. On overall "weight", this is a problematic area as the last academic biog was in the 1980s. I would caution against judging weight via biographies alone; these tend to be partial and Anglo-centric accounts while are currently also rather out of date. Other literatures deal with Edward extensively (Anglo-Jewish, Scottish, Irish, Welsh histories). The prior Anglo-centricity of the article is what I've tried to re-balance, this is not a coincidence. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240727172600-KJP1-20240727063800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:26, 27 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've posted a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Requests#Edward_I_of_England" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests">request</a> to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GOCE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GOCE">WP:GOCE</a> for a partial copyedit on the revised sections, however there is currently a 3-4 month backlog. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20240826124500-JimKillock-20240727172600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:45, 26 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241012140700-JimKillock-20240616092800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:07, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">JimKillock</a> - Nikkimaria, as mentioned above, I think the problem we have is the lack of another specialist. For me, Jim's amendments look strong and well-sourced. But Edward I isn't my period, so I can't properly assess the issue of weight/due. For that, we need an Edwardian, which I'm not! <a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJP1" title="User talk:KJP1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-KJP1-20241012165000-Nikkimaria-20241012140700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:50, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> I am, as mentioned above, done with my changes related to prior gaps in the sources examined; I have posted a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Requests#Edward_I_of_England" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests">request</a> to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GOCE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GOCE">WP:GOCE</a> for a partial copyedit on the revised sections, we are about six weeks into a 3-4 month wait. I agree with @<a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> that it would be handy for an Edwardian specialist to review if available but that seems unlikely.</dd> <dd>Choices are therefore are to (a) wait until the copy editing is done then close, (b) wait indefinitely for a specialist to turn up; or (c) close this now. I'd opt for (a) as a quality control on the prose and just in case a specialist arrives. A specialist could always review / argue on weighting at a later date, after all that is what I did in essence. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241012210100-Nikkimaria-20241012140700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">JimKillock</a>, could I suggest asking @<a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a>, who is known to be a good copy editor, for a review? A six week long wait is too long imo, and that is just for copy editors to get to your request, their review might take half a month or more. After that is done, I could do prose, source and image reviews. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241013135400-JimKillock-20241012210100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:54, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sure, that would be great. @<a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> if you are willing to help with this, please make any edits directly, I can check for accuracy afterwards. This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Requests#Edward_I_of_England" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests">request</a> lists which sections need reviewing. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241013152700-Matarisvan-20241013135400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:27, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for the ping. I am travelling but I can take a look tomorrow. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241015192000-JimKillock-20241013152700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 15 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Excellent, for ease of reference these are the sections that have been edited in this review and need a check / copy edit. <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Edward_I_of_England#Conquest_of_Wales" title="Edward I of England">Conquest of Wales</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Edward_I_of_England#Character_as_king" title="Edward I of England">Character as king</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Edward_I_of_England#Parliament_and_the_expulsion_of_the_Jews" title="Edward I of England">Parliament and the expulsion of the Jews</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Edward_I_of_England#Administration_in_Ireland" title="Edward I of England">Administration in Ireland</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Edward_I_of_England#Legacy" title="Edward I of England">Legacy</a></li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241016174400-John-20241015192000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:44, 16 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, that helps. Should be able to take a look this evening. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241018135600-JimKillock-20241016174400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:56, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've started by reading the article. It seems very good and thorough and I can see lots of edits I want to make. How much of a hurry are we in? <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241019235800-John-20241018135600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:58, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div>Started the first section. Some of these will be harder than others. I am not a subject specialist. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241020133700-Feedback_requested" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:37, 20 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks very much. There isn't any massive hurry (we've waited since mid June for a copy edit, and GOCE would take another 8 weeks at a guess). I can check for accuracy as you finish sections, or answer any questions you have. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241020141400-John-20241020133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:14, 20 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>It's a pleasure. Please do check my edits in case any important shades of meaning are lost as I copyedit. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241020145800-JimKillock-20241020141400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:58, 20 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for your changes @<a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a>, should we take it you are done? I'm very happy with them (I've made one edit) and thank you for looking at the text throughout, as well as the new edits. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241023201900-John-20241020145800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 23 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You are welcome. I might take one further look if that's ok? <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241024064200-JimKillock-20241023201900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:42, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>for sure, go for it! <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241024075000-John-20241024064200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:50, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for your patience. I think <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_I_of_England&diff=1253358843&oldid=1251137157">I am finished now</a>. As a Scot, I was tempted to use a different verb than "confiscated" to describe the removal of the Stone of Scone. I might say "looted" or maybe just "took". I wouldn't dream of imposing my POV though. What word does the source use? I think the article is looking good now. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241025131600-JimKillock-20241024075000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:16, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'll check in a few days; there will be multiple sources of course, and potentially different words used. "took" is neutral enough. Edward's penchant for delivering snubs of this nature is well discussed in the sources, but dealt here with at "character" / "legacy" rather than in the narrative. There, "seizure" is used. [Edit: I agree that "confiscated" is rather non-neutral / Anglo-centric; it implies that law and authority was on Edward's side when taking the Stone] <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241026182400-John-20241025131600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:24, 26 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> Prestwich (cited) used "removed", also more neutral than "confiscated". Barrow uses "moved", followed by describing it as "plunder[ed]". So "took" seems right to me as it doesn't presume legality or claims of legality. I made the edit in any case. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241031191800-JimKillock-20241026182400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I agree that is more neutral language, and if it is truer to the sources that's perfect. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241031192100-JimKillock-20241031191800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:21, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Still to do; full dates for the events of the Second Barons' War as just having months is confusing. I presume he didn't erect the memorial crosses himself, but is it too clunky to <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_I_of_England&diff=prev&oldid=1253357848">point that out in the text</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241025152800-JimKillock-20241024075000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:28, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think this is clearer, thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241026181500-John-20241025152800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:15, 26 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> What is the process for closing the review? I think we have done as best we can with available resources (I think @<a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> is done with copyedits from what I can see). <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241031193700-JimKillock-20241026181500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:37, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>The process is we need people to either say this is ready to close without FARC, or this needs to be moved to FARC. Once there's a consensus either way it will proceed according to that. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241101000500-JimKillock-20241031193700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>As someone who has read and reread the article in the course of a fairly thorough copyedit throughout, with specific emphasis on the rewritten sections, I think this article should retain its FA status. It looks like all the concerns raised in this discussion have been addressed. <a href="/wiki/User:John" title="User:John">John</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:John" title="User talk:John">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-John-20241101143400-John-20241020133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:34, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>I am happy that the concerns raised are sufficiently addressed and believe it should retain its FA status. --<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241101163100-John-20241020133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:31, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>I shall stick my neck out and also vote for retain, given that it was a fairly recent FA, and JK's edits seem clear improvements. JK has done a good job of expanding/nuancing/giving the article a wider perspective, and John's done a great copy edit. <a href="/wiki/User:KJP1" title="User:KJP1">KJP1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:KJP1" title="User talk:KJP1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-KJP1-20241101164900-John-20241020133700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:49, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Matarisvan" data-mw-thread-id="h-Matarisvan-Edward_I_of_England-20241102105600">Matarisvan</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Edward_I_of_England/archive1&action=edit&section=T-10" title="Edit section: Matarisvan">edit</a>]</div> Hi <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Jim_Killock&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Jim Killock (page does not exist)">Jim Killock</a>, my comments: <ul><li>Note a, ref #2: the page range we have used, 865-891 is, I think, a whole chapter. We need to cite 1-3 pages which say regnal numbers were not used during Edward's time and that he came to be known as Edward I only after his 2 immediate descendants also used the same name.</li> <li>Note v needs a citation.</li> <li>Perhaps link to justiciar? I must say that I didn't know what the word exactly meant.</li> <li>Ref #35 needs page numbers, unless we are citing all 11 pages of that source.</li></ul> Will resume tomorrow, completed reviewing the Early life section. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241102105600-Matarisvan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:56, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks - I will work on these, note these issues were present (bar note v) at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Edward_I_of_England&oldid=1139534056">FA completion</a>, rather than in this round of changes, so fixing refs especially may take a bit of digging for me. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241102114600-Matarisvan-20241102105600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:46, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>These are fixed. On ref #2 re regnal numbers, the information was not in the source, so I removed it. On ref #35 (now #34), I don't believe this was the source used as it goes into great detail without really making the basic points. Rather I think the narrative follows Prestwich, so I added that. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241102130700-Matarisvan-20241102105600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:07, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi Jim, will resume my review the day after tomorrow. Till then, you should look at ref #7, particularly its last 3 sources, because only the first source cited in that ref is necessary. I think the titles of the 3 sourcez are cited to show that Edward was called the Lord Edward before his coronation. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241103184000-JimKillock-20241102130700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:40, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>These sources don't actually support the claim, afaict, so I've removed them, thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">Jim Killock</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:JimKillock" title="User talk:JimKillock">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-JimKillock-20241103232600-Matarisvan-20241103184000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">JimKillock</a>, resuming my review: <ul><li>Add the inflation adjusted value for the £17,500 lent by Louis IX?</li> <li>"crown lands that his father had surrendered during his reign": Could we perhaps list these lands in a note?</li> <li>Link to the castles of Beaumaris, Caernarfon, Conwy and Harlech?</li> <li>Add the inflation adjusted value for the £400,000 cost estimated by Prestwich in note O?</li> <li>Link to RR Davies and Michael Prestwich in the body as done in the biblio?</li> <li>Add the inflation adjusted value for the £16,000 in fines and seizures?</li> <li>Add the inflation adjusted figure for the £110,000 lay subsidy approved?</li> <li>Add the inflation adjusted figure for the £200,000 raised through the lay subsidy?</li> <li>Add the inflation adjusted figure for the £473 in Edward's burial costs?</li> <li>Ref #352: consider removing the first two sources? Either their titles or the whole books have been cited.</li> <li>Remove the second link to GWS Barrow?</li> <li>I believe the war in Flanders has not been summarized or linked in the Early reign section, and is mentioned directly.</li></ul></dd> <dd>That concludes my prose review. I have done some little edits to the sfns myself, I hope that is alright. I will try to do an image and source review soon. Cheers <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241106162800-JimKillock-20241103232600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:JimKillock" title="User:JimKillock">JimKillock</a>, pinging you in case you haven't seen the comments above. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241110140600-Matarisvan-20241106162800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:06, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Byzantine_Empire" data-mw-thread-id="h-Byzantine_Empire-Featured_article_reviews-20231030220300"><a href="/wiki/Byzantine_Empire" title="Byzantine Empire">Byzantine Empire</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Byzantine_Empire/archive3&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Byzantine Empire">edit</a>]</div> Notified: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:SandyGeorgia/MMStargets&oldid=1182704042">Mass Message Send notifications</a>, talk page notices <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Byzantine_Empire&diff=989940716&oldid=989938043">2020-11-21</a> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AByzantine_Empire&type=revision&diff=1126665592&oldid=1124750522">2022-12-10</a> This 2001 FA which dates to Refreshing Brilliant Prose days was last reviewed at FAR more than 10 years ago, and its most significant contributors are no longer active. The talk page notifications from <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Byzantine_Empire&diff=989940716&oldid=989938043">2020-11-21</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AByzantine_Empire&type=revision&diff=1126665592&oldid=1124750522">2022-12-10</a> barely scratch the surface; the article is riddled with maintenance tags and there are concerns about image licensing, uncited text, prose, MOS compliance, and a good chunk of the very large article has never been vetted in a review process, as it was added after the last review. I believe the problems here are too deep and wide to be addressed at FAR, and the article should be delisted and re-submitted to FAC if it improves, but maybe someone is up to the task. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231030220300-Byzantine_Empire" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:03, 30 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I generally agree that FAR is an unlikely solution for this, unless someone seriously commits themselves to this daunting task. This has been one of the big impending FARs for many years... I think the biggest length issues are in the history section, which should be 3/4, maybe even half as long. On the other side, the Literature section seems embarrassingly brief. From my understanding of Byzantine music (I created the <a href="/wiki/List_of_Byzantine_composers" title="List of Byzantine composers">List of Byzantine composers</a> article), the emphasis on instruments is hugely undue and much more discussion of composers, genres and music rituals should be instead substituted. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20231030223000-SandyGeorgia-20231030220300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I am reluctant to commit, given other constraints, but with a day in the library I could seriously improve the bloated history section. We shall see. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231030235700-SandyGeorgia-20231030220300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:57, 30 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I agree with SandyGeorgia. Even if it were thought that a very long article would be needed even to summarize this topic well, this is not in any shape to be considered featured article class. As Sandy points out, there are too many deficiencies for a featured article. It will be a big task to make the needed improvements and, I think, few if any reviewers available to undertake it. <a href="/wiki/User:Donner60" title="User:Donner60">Donner60</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Donner60" title="User talk:Donner60">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Donner60-20231101064100-AirshipJungleman29-20231030235700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:41, 1 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Agree with all of the above. If there's a collective push to save this article I would chip in but it's way too modern for my usual area and I'm in no position to lead it. Aside from all of the valid criticisms already made, I am surprised to see not a single mention of slaves/slavery in the article. We have <a href="/wiki/Slavery_in_the_Byzantine_Empire" title="Slavery in the Byzantine Empire">Slavery in the Byzantine Empire</a> which seems to suggest that there were major changes to the institution of slavery from how it had been in classical antiquity... <a href="/wiki/User:Caeciliusinhorto-public" title="User:Caeciliusinhorto-public">Caeciliusinhorto-public</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Caeciliusinhorto-public" title="User talk:Caeciliusinhorto-public">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Caeciliusinhorto-public-20231109103500-Donner60-20231101064100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:35, 9 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Caeciliusinhorto-public" title="User:Caeciliusinhorto-public">Caeciliusinhorto-public</a> it looks like work is progressing; are you in? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231210124300-Caeciliusinhorto-public-20231109103500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:43, 10 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for the ping <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a>. Between Christmas and other real-life stuff I probably can't commit to much but I'll watchlist the page and poke my nose in if I have anything useful to contribute. <a href="/wiki/User:Caeciliusinhorto-public" title="User:Caeciliusinhorto-public">Caeciliusinhorto-public</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Caeciliusinhorto-public" title="User talk:Caeciliusinhorto-public">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Caeciliusinhorto-public-20231213144000-SandyGeorgia-20231210124300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:40, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><s>Move to FARC</s>, it looks unlikely anyone can or will take this on. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231109123400-SandyGeorgia-20231030220300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:34, 9 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Move to FARC per the above. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20231109144900-SandyGeorgia-20231030220300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:49, 9 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Move to FARC it seems like even basic maintenance tags are unaddressed. Apropos of nothing, I am surprised that this article manages to be even longer than my own <a href="/wiki/African_humid_period" title="African humid period">African humid period</a>. I caveat though that I see though that <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> is doing a bit of work on the article? <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231112103900-SandyGeorgia-20231030220300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:39, 12 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've been taking a break due to life, but before I touch this topic again I want to read Anthony Kaldellis's The new Roman Empire and complete my research on a <a href="/wiki/Draft:Periodisation_of_Roman_civilisation" title="Draft:Periodisation of Roman civilisation">draft</a> I'm working on. I think there are some easy improvements that could be made. I prefer to collaborate with people and take a section by section approach as I go deep into the sources and more interested in factual accuracy as it supports a narrative than word smithing. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231112201500-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231112103900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 12 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I am also reading this book, and I would like to contribute to improving this article the best I can. If I can help you in an adequately directed way, I would be happy to. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">聊</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Remsense-20231115131700-Biz-20231112201500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:17, 15 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a>: What is your timeline like - are you hoping to work on this within the context of FAR? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20231202050200-SandyGeorgia-20231030220300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:02, 2 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Not sure. I don't have time to commit due to life circumstances, have not finished Kaldellis yet because I'm 4 deep in other books, but throw me a bone... @<a href="/wiki/User:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise" title="User:Future Perfect at Sunrise">Future Perfect at Sunrise</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Furius" title="User:Furius">Furius</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:DeCausa" title="User:DeCausa">DeCausa</a> what do you think is best to improve the article? <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231202070400-Nikkimaria-20231202050200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:04, 2 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Conversely, I do have time, but I am intimidated in the task and would feel most comfortable as the "junior partner" in an article cleanup where I'm possibly doing tasks specifically requested by others with more intuitive expertise, like I am presently doing at the other FAC <a href="/wiki/Battle_of_Red_Cliffs" title="Battle of Red Cliffs">Battle of Red Cliffs</a>. This is a big topic of my interest, but it's not my specialty. If anyone else wants to help and knows exactly what to do, but doesn't have the time to do it—I have that time at present. I hope that's useful. I've been grabbing the sources cited so I have them on hand. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">留</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Remsense-20231202154700-Nikkimaria-20231202050200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:47, 2 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If you have time, and like to read sources, then I have a project that will prepare us for productive editing. It's the approach I would take and if we set this up right, I'll happily involve myself as well when I find a minute as this is the fun bit for me but also the most time consuming. This can be a parallel process to any editing that occurs. It will align people and can be used to settle Talk disputes. If more people want to involve themselves, it gives a common reference point for editing.</dd> <dd>1. Read all the sources referenced to statements and document with quotes and/or bullet points what they say. <ul><li>Check they actually say what was written</li> <li>Check for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Close_paraphrasing" title="Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing">patch-writing</a></li> <li>Use this an opportunity to identify historians who might have written more research that updates our knowledge. Bruno Rochette on language is a good example of that, as he wrote a more recent paper (2018) that, I think, responded to misinterpretations of what he wrote in 2012 (and that Wikipedia used as the basis of its narrative in the Roman Empire article section).</li> <li>Documenting this means you can have other people help with the evaluation</li></ul></dd> <dd>2. Read the article and sources in <a href="/wiki/Roman_Empire" title="Roman Empire">Roman Empire</a> and see if there is anything there we can use. <ul><li>There should be synergies between these articles</li> <li>When these articles talk about each other as different empires, we should probably understand why.</li></ul></dd> <dd>3. Finish reading Kaldellis's The New Roman Empire. See if anything he introduces supports the sources, the narrative or challenges them (the Iconaclasm is an example). <ul><li>If you want to take this article to an even higher level, chase down Treadgold’s 1990s work and see where he and Kaldellis agree or differ in views.</li> <li>In my view, this article should read with what Treadgold and Kaldellis have written in their books as the primary sources as they are the most recent academic historians to write about the topic at length.</li> <li>Specialist historians on sections should be used of course to delve into issues but as we are looking for consensus what Kaldellis and Treadgold have said should be the test for consensus.</li></ul></dd> <dd>The act of doing this will give us plenty of inspiration to start editing and improving the article on what substantively it needs. As it’s a large topic, I suggest this is done in sections to make this less over-whelming. If there is a way to set this up as a project, other people can contribute. By reading the sources, the edit prioritization will just naturally emerge.</dd> <dd>Further, by doing this, copy editing I think will be more informed and it will allow us to make the article more concise with the content that matters. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231204180900-Remsense-20231202154700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd>I think we all agree that this shouldn't be an FA. It would be good to get a clear summary of why it's not and of what needs to change.</dd> <dd>I have a lot of respect for Biz's work and especially for their careful section by section approach, but that does mean that the talk page tends to focus on points of detail and nomenclature.</dd> <dd>Thus, we don't currently have a holistic overview of how the article should change. It would be good to have that. If FA review could give us that, it would be worth doing. If there is another, better venue, we should do that. <a href="/wiki/User:Furius" title="User:Furius">Furius</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Furius" title="User talk:Furius">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Furius-20231202074100-SandyGeorgia-20231030220300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:41, 2 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I agree. That said, I do think Kaldellis’s book — the first new academic narrative since the 1990s — should be a standard for us to measure the current article beyond the maintenance tasks. Despite some issues, it’s remarkable well written. If we have a group of people commit to reading it before editing we will be all on the same page and the article will be all the better because of it.</dd> <dd>One suggestion on approach is we understand this is a big project and do drives every so often on sections. It will make this a sustained effort then (and action will breed other action). If a regular group of editors have experience working together, they can just jive off each other’s edits. If people revert and becomes a problem, we take it to talk. What’s key is we set the expectation that we are blowing up a section and ask for people’s collaboration in edits rather than hash it out on talk. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231203053900-Furius-20231202074100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:39, 3 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I am currently already reading it as I've said above, and I agree with your praise. Also with your methodology, I am fully onboard. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">留</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Remsense-20231203055500-Biz-20231203053900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:55, 3 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I can work with Kaldellis as a foundation, I also have access to the relevant Cambridge history; I can get going in around a week, if that's acceptable. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231206221500-Biz-20231203053900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 6 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Word counts by major section <ul><li>Lead: 571</li> <li>Nomenclature: 307</li> <li>History: 10,090</li> <li>Government and bureaucracy: 924</li> <li>Science and medicine: 528</li> <li>Culture: 3536</li> <li>Economy: 418</li> <li>Legacy: 416</li></ul></dd> <dd>Lead can be done last (and where Talk wastes the most time so let's stay away from it). Nomenclature has undergone a major review recently so no need to focus on that now. The Language section in Culture is 519 words, a good 1/7th of that section and larger than the two sections after it -- the languages section in Roman Empire has undergone a recent deep review by me so we can lean on this to re-evaluate this section. Oh, and history, let's look at that as clearly this needs work: <ul><li>Early Byzantine history: 1026</li> <li>Justinian dynasty: 1081</li> <li>Arab invasions and shrinking borders: 1312</li> <li>Macedonian dynasty and resurgence (867–1025): 2170</li> <li>Crisis and fragmentation: 491</li> <li>Komnenian dynasty and the Crusades: 1694</li> <li>Decline and disintegration: 1282</li> <li>Fall: 309</li> <li>Political aftermath: 725</li></ul></dd> <dd>Was hoping to finish Kaldellis before editing again -- with my travel and other commitments, optimistically it won't be before January -- but hey, throw a dart and we can start. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231208041400-AirshipJungleman29-20231206221500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:14, 8 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>For some reason, my non-binding pick is Crisis and fragmentation, it may be easiest to identify the article's broader shortcomings with a short cut from the middle. I can also take a closer look at Language. Oh, also, the presence of <a href="/wiki/File:Bizansist_touchup.jpg" title="File:Bizansist touchup.jpg">File:Bizansist touchup.jpg</a> seems fairly...not for this decade. It needs to be replaced or likely removed, I'll see what I can source. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">留</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Remsense-20231208042100-Biz-20231208041400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:21, 8 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Ah, the most interesting section! Crisis and fragmentation, or rather that time period, is something Kaldellis will be key for as there is a lot of new research since Treadgold.</dd> <dd>It's worth introducing the historian Roderick Beaton (with his very excellent, The Greeks: A Global History) who's book tries to make a case that every generation of Greek-speaking regime collapsed when central government was no longer useful. So in the case of the Byzantine Empire, he said long before 1453 and even 1204 occurred. That is to say, this era of 800-1204 is very sensitive how we edit it. Howard-Johnston, Treadgold and Kaldellis are the leading experts on this 'middle' period so I hope you understand my reluctance to have an opinion on this section until I get further with Kadellis. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231208044700-Remsense-20231208042100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:47, 8 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Let's start at the beginning? (I should note that when this FAR was opened a month ago, I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Byzantine_Empire&diff=prev&oldid=1183027264">trimmed the original six paragraphs into the current two</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231209141200-Biz-20231208044700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:12, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I would also fully support this approach. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">留</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Remsense-20231209141700-AirshipJungleman29-20231209141200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:17, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Logical. Ready to roll. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231209153800-Remsense-20231209141700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> With three "Move to FARC' declarations, I'm unclear which way this FAR is headed. If you all are intending to save the star, it will be a very long effort, with work best conducted on talk with bi-weekly updates here, while a discussion of how you intend to tackle the size issue will be helpful. How will the article/work be divided, where will <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SS">summary style</a> be employed? Alternately, if the thought is that the article will be better served by having it delisted, and re-appearing at FAC once reworked, we need to know that, too, so we can move to FARC. I understand people are still reading the necessary new sources, but over a month in, we've seen very little actual article progress, so direction is needed. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300-Byzantine_Empire" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:23, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Per above, it seems like we are going to keep it simple, starting with the history section and go over it chronologically. I've already earmarked several graphics that I plan on replacing or possibly removing. <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Remsense" title="User talk:Remsense">留</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Remsense-20231209142600-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:26, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)I'm willing to work on the article within FAR, but not outside it. To be honest, the size issue is at the moment secondary to more immediate problems (OR, CLOP, etc.) History section first, then others, when we're all hopefully soaked through with knowledge. As we should be going section-to-section, and just move the comments on each to talk after it's satisfactorily completed. This will be a long job but I wouldn't expect anything else for such an important article (<a href="/wiki/Genghis_Khan" title="Genghis Khan">Genghis Khan</a> took me 413 days on my lonesome). At the moment, I'm mildly optimistic—we have three competent and active editors, pretty much a blank sheet in front of us, and if it fails then. well, at least we tried? <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231209143500-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I support working within FAR though these frameworks for review is not something I have useful experience in. Will need to defer to someone else's lead on that. In terms of process, I'm amenable to suggestions.</dd> <dd>If we exclude the Lead and Nomenclature, there are 9 history subheadings, 7 culture subeadings and 4 other major sections. By announcing periodic drives on a section and putting eyes on it, even with just 1-3 of us, we'll rip through and make Temüjin-like progress. If we want to do this right, and on balance of all the things needed, I'd say this a 20-80 week project (budgeting 1-4 weeks per section).</dd> <dd>I'll put my hand up on the slowest part of this process which is validating existing sources, evaluating other sources people suggest or from other articles, and otherwise assessing current scholarship. This will result in addressing article issues like CLOP and OR, and by extension assist with condensing the narrative which will address the big billboard problem of size. Happy to document notes and note down direct quotes as I read sources which may assist in making this work more accessible so other people can leverage it. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231209191400-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sounds good. Sandy is probably right that we should do all the nitty grity on this FAR's talk, so we don't clog up the main FAR page with all our scribblings. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231209193900-Biz-20231209191400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Makes sense. So if I understand this right: <ul><li>this FAR page (or its talk?) is where we document a FAR review</li> <li>this FAR talk is where we put notes evaluating scholarship and/or other notes</li> <li>Issues from the above two processes will get posted on the articles Talk page</li> <li>We announce updates here every two weeks</li> <li>After (or in parallel?) of the FAR, we do section by section drives?</li></ul></dd> <dd>Anything else? Who will perform the FAR? And we officially start sometime-ish this month? <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231209200800-AirshipJungleman29-20231209193900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:08, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think the idea is that everything happens on this page or its talk, and that the improving of each section is part of the FAR. At the end, some other editors will take a look at the article and see whether they think it meets <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FACR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FACR">WP:FACR</a>. Is that right <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231209231400-Biz-20231209200800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:14, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don't understand Biz's question: the FAR is open, the instructions are at the top of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FAR">WP:FAR</a>, but there is no time pressure. Other editors will evaluate on this page whether the article meets <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WIAFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WIAFA">WP:WIAFA</a>, but it is typical for them to wait until after you all are ready for a new look and as long as you keep this page informed and that work is steadily progressing in the right direction. (I am quite concerned that I haven't seen much progress yet, particularly in terms of re-organizing the content towards a trimmer version.) Where you coordinate the work doesn't matter; it can be on the article talk page, or on the talk page of this FAR, but to avoid clogging this page, the nitty gritty need not be conducted here, unless you need broader feedback beyond the day-to-day improvements. This page is for others to eventually declare Close or Move to FARC in the FAR phase, and Keep or Delist if it moves to the FARC phase. Considering there is a very large amount of work to do, my suggestion is that work proceeds on article talk, and that you let this page know bi-weekly how things are going. If progress stalls, editors are likely to suggest Move to FARC to keep the process moving forward. Perhaps an understanding of FAR functioning can be had by reading through <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/J._K._Rowling/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article review/J. K. Rowling/archive1">Wikipedia:Featured article review/J. K. Rowling/archive1</a> (which I I believe is the biggest rewrite at FAR to date). <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231210124100-AirshipJungleman29-20231209231400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you for the pointers.</dd> <dd>I've started the review with some structure on how we approach it in this <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review/Byzantine_Empire/archive3" title="Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Byzantine Empire/archive3">article's talk page</a>. Open to feedback to do this differently (in the Talk page, of course). <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231210194100-SandyGeorgia-20231210124100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:41, 10 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Discussion of approaches may also take place on the article's talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231213035900-Biz-20231210194100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:59, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I'm continuing the rewrite, aided by the others here; @<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a>: as the two remaining !votes, is there anything in particular you want to see addressed? <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231213124000-Biz-20231210194100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:40, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There is at least one section without a source at the last sentence. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231213124600-AirshipJungleman29-20231213124000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:46, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>We'll get to that. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231213131400-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231213124600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:14, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I still see lots of uncited sections. I am happy to cn tag the article if this is requested. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20231213160200-AirshipJungleman29-20231213131400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:02, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes please, that would be a great help! <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20231213160500-Z1720-20231213160200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:05, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I would appreciate feedback on two sections I've been focused on: <a href="/wiki/Byzantine_Empire#Transition_into_an_eastern_Christian_empire" title="Byzantine Empire">Transition into an eastern Christian empire</a> and <a href="/wiki/Byzantine_Empire#Language" title="Byzantine Empire">Language</a>. I still want to do more source work (last paragraph of languages needs verification; waiting for a new book on slavery which may improve the narrative) but I thought now is as good a time than ever to ask if I am rewriting this article to the standard that is expected. (I'm finding it a challenge to balance summary prose with comprehensiveness and neutrality...I've never brought an article to FA standard so I apologise for what may seem obvious to others.) <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240110002300-SandyGeorgia-20231210124100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:23, 10 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Christmas Day update: Biz has been working on the language section, while my grand reduction of the history section has gotten slightly distracted; I will be back there shortly, however. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231225204000-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:40, 25 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240120194500-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:45, 20 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><ul><li>I've completed my read (40+ hours) of Anthony Kaldellis's The New Roman Empire which was my precondition before I start work on this article.</li> <li>I'm currently focused on "<a href="/wiki/Byzantine_Empire#Society" title="Byzantine Empire">society</a>". It's two-thirds done. @<a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">AirshipJungleman29</a> is taking point on History and it's not an easy task. <ul><li>Languages: need to validate last paragraph sources and final review of copy. This section was completely rewritten by me.</li> <li>Transition into an eastern Christian empire: need to validate two sources still and final proof read to make sure I'm happy with the copy. This section was completely rewritten by me. <ul><li>when I thought I had finished this, someone added a paragraph on slavery, and as I validated the sources, I ended up reading a book Slaveries of the First Millennium by Youval Rotman which helped rewrite it and which is also helping with a lot of other content (like marriage which sits in women right now)</li></ul></li> <li>I've asked for feedback on the above because I'm not confident in my ability to meet FA standard, and before I embark on the rest of the article.</li> <li>I'm currently reviewing the "women" section and have more literature to read as it's a topic I have no expertise in <ul><li>I'm drafting a new section on socioeconomic and legal rights, that will incorporate sources from the women section I'm reading and that will reduce that section but also make the content stronger I hope (ie, combined with other sources, broader perspective).</li> <li>I'm still evaluating if there needs to be something on "gender" (as part of women or separate) which is something that is coming up in modern scholarship. Can only resolve this by reading a book by Leora Neville</li></ul></li></ul></li> <li>Due to life commitments, I expect to be slow moving until February 5th.</li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240120204300-Nikkimaria-20240120194500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>History rewrite is ongoing...slooowwwwly. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240204211200-Nikkimaria-20240120194500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 4 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240302051800-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:18, 2 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>sloooooow progress. should be able to crack on next week, however. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240302055000-Nikkimaria-20240302051800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:50, 2 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Update: I hope to make some progress this weekend. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240323122500-AirshipJungleman29-20240302055000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:25, 23 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd>Life got in the way for me that I needed to depriortitise this. But I'm still committed. My current focus is on the government and military. Working on how to find a balance of what I can do with more consistent contributions so I don't disappear again. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240328221600-Nikkimaria-20240302051800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 28 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Wikitrivia comment: This is undisputedly the longest-lived FA on the English Wikipedia, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/332016940" title="Special:PermanentLink/332016940">going as far back as mid-November 2001</a> (or rather, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20010815165023/http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Brilliant_prose">August 2001 per Wayback</a>)—a total of ±22½ years. Given its tenure and current longstanding rescue mission, it'll already be too soon if the star gets taken down. (Having typed this out, I now feel really old.) Details and backstory at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2008-07-21/Dispatches" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-07-21/Dispatches">WP:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-07-21/Dispatches</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Slgrandson" title="User:Slgrandson">Slgrandson</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Slgrandson" title="User talk:Slgrandson">How's my</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Slgrandson" title="Special:Contributions/Slgrandson">egg-throwing coleslaw?</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Slgrandson-20240407050000-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>According to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BrilliantProse" title="Wikipedia:BrilliantProse">Wikipedia:BrilliantProse</a>, 26 May 2001, 08:00:45 <a href="/wiki/User:Slgrandson" title="User:Slgrandson">Slgrandson</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240407153800-Slgrandson-20240407050000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:38, 7 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">AirshipJungleman29</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Remsense" title="User:Remsense">Remsense</a>: How is it going? <a href="/wiki/User:QuicoleJR" title="User:QuicoleJR">QuicoleJR</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:QuicoleJR" title="User talk:QuicoleJR">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-QuicoleJR-20240501192300-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Halted, and probably will be for the next three weeks due to RL responsibilities. Working on adjacent topics, however, and intending to return. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240501194500-QuicoleJR-20240501192300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:45, 1 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Same with me. IRL challenges, but have every intention to continue. Appreciate the follow up. Time has flown this past month… <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240505044700-QuicoleJR-20240501192300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:47, 5 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I copy-edited the "Society" section, does that section look better. <a href="/wiki/User:CosXZ" title="User:CosXZ">CosXZ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CosXZ" title="User talk:CosXZ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-CosXZ-20240512212600-QuicoleJR-20240501192300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes, thank you! @<a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">AirshipJungleman29</a> added that copy editing tag because I wanted feedback on my writing and actually I've been waiting for this and is partly why I paused my contributions. I would appreciate your continued involvement in copy-editing as we re-write sections. Personally, I'm trying hard to write a balanced and modern narrative supported by stronger sources but it's easy to get caught in detail that another editor can easily correct. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240513203300-CosXZ-20240512212600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 13 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> please try to iron out your additions in drafts, before adding them to the rewritten article. Take for example the second paragraph of <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Byzantine_Empire&diff=prev&oldid=1223732906">this edit</a>—none of the three sentences make grammatical sense, and I additionally don't see what relevance it has to a section titled "Central government". <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240514005900-Biz-20240513203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>By second paragraph, you mean the sentence starting with Phocas?</dd> <dd>I'll review the two new sentences on nomos empsychos and re-evaluate which seems to be the only thing you cut from the revision I made. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240514013100-AirshipJungleman29-20240514005900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi all, came across this a few days ago and thought I'd offer my help if there are any particular sections that could do with editing/sourcing improvements? @<a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">AirshipJungleman29</a>@<a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> & co.? <a href="/wiki/User:Jr8825" title="User:Jr8825">Jr8825</a> • <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jr8825" title="User talk:Jr8825">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jr8825-20240528215100-Biz-20240514013100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:51, 28 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Great! We are working our way down the article, @<a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">AirshipJungleman29</a>'s driving the history rewrite and also worked on Nomenclature which I also previously worked on, I've completed my work on Society and recently finished Governance. I've gone into a rabbit hole understanding one statement about nomos empsychos and related the impact of Justinian's code, which probably won't belong on this article but reflecting on its relevance still, and plan to focus on military, diplomacy, law after that which has some overlap on the work I've already done.</dd> <dd>Economy, architecture, Daily life, Science and medicine, Religion would be next after that so that would be a great place you could pick up on. Arts @<a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a> has previously said they would work on, but otherwise open field! <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240528233100-Jr8825-20240528215100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:31, 28 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Starting work on literature in my sandbox. Should get to Art and Music after – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240620190900-Biz-20240528233100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 20 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I've completed a draft for a new literature section, see <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24/sandbox" title="User:Aza24/sandbox">User:Aza24/sandbox</a> (perma link: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Aza24/sandbox&oldid=1230469255">[2]</a>). @<a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a>:, does it seem too long? I was going for as concise as possible, but don't know if I've overstepped. I'll paste it in after I copy edit and go through the sources once more. Should get started on the art section in a few days. – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240622215400-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 22 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've responded with feedback. @<a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">AirshipJungleman29</a> should also take a look. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240623032400-Aza24-20240622215400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you! I've made some adjustments (moved your comments to the bottom of the page with replies). <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240623044000-Biz-20240623032400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 23 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Sorry, don't have much time to take a look at this at present. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240624105900-Biz-20240623032400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:59, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No worries! The Byzantine Empire will be waiting, since <a href="/wiki/Istanbul_(Not_Constantinople)" title="Istanbul (Not Constantinople)">you can't go back to Constantinople</a> anyways. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240624211000-AirshipJungleman29-20240624105900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>My new literature section has been added. Thanks again Biz for your feedback! I'll look towards doing Art next sometime soon – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240625022400-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:24, 25 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you for your work. I've updated the status of the article here: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review/Byzantine_Empire/archive3" title="Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Byzantine Empire/archive3">Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Byzantine Empire/archive3</a>. Let's use that page to coordinate on the work, and keep this page for general updates. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240625035100-Aza24-20240625022400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:51, 25 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Understood! Nice system you got there <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240625163200-Biz-20240625035100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:32, 25 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240713012500-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>After 8 and a half months, this article is still not close to meeting the FA criteria. There are still uncited sections, including the entire "Military", "Clothing", and "Relationship with Western Christendom" sections. Progress also seems to have stalled, with information added recently getting reverted several times. While I appreciate the work done to try to save this, it might be better if it goes to FARC so that it can be evaluated for delisting. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240713213300-Nikkimaria-20240713012500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've removed the three sections until more work can be done on them.</dd> <dd>If there is a list of specific issues you want done by a certain time period, I'm happy to prioritise this over the line by line by section review that is currently occurring (albeit at a leisurely pace as I did not think there was a rush and it requires readings and reflection)</dd> <dd>As for the reverting of some of my edits, this has not been a problem for me, as it keeps me to a higher standard when done respectfully. And of the litany of other editors where this occurs, it's been appropriate as we've had talk page consensus on these issues. But I can understand it does not look good. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240714202300-Z1720-20240713213300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:23, 14 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>The concern is not about specific sections: it's that FAR is about evaluating whether the article should still be considered an FA. Having extended comments on a review makes the FAR page difficult to load, and discussions on article improvements should happen on the article's talk page, while small corrections should be discussed on nomination pages such as FAR. If the article is so far away from the criteria that it cannot be fixed in a couple of weeks, my opinion is to delist it and work on it without the time pressures of FAR, and it can be renominated at FAC when it is ready. Since this has been open for 8 months, and citation problems still exist (even after the above sections were removed) my opinion is that the article probably needs a lot of work to get it back to FA status, which should happen on the article's talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240715171700-Biz-20240714202300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:17, 15 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Understood. I defer to yours and others judgement. Personally, I like the idea of keeping this as the oldest FA on Wikipedia so would prefer a process where I have time to improve it which is how I understand FARC with extensions is.</dd> <dd>I do want to say that the articles talk page has been inhibiting progress on this article these last few years. Since this FAR started, I've become along with others one of the top authors in the articles history. The work I do is not superficial and will take months. For example, the previous FAR editors added citations but when I checked one, it was to the contents pages (as I read all the sources); and this Bleicken book I've hunted down that is referenced in modern scholarship I've come across is referenced in other articles (ie, <a href="/wiki/Principate" title="Principate">Principate</a>) and now that I've read half of it says something completely different to what people think it says (ie, terms like principate/dominate need to be dropped, it was the same legal system since Augustus, there was no hellenistic autocracy change in the emperor which nomos empsychos has been used to represent, etc). <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240715193900-Z1720-20240715171700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:39, 15 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I went down a nomos empsychos rabbit hole, reaching out to academics as it's a multi-disciplinary issue across history, jurisprudence and philosophy. As for why, I've come to realise it's important for this topic, as it underpins narrative bias historians have (ie, Prinzipat und Dominat, Bleicken 1978, 22–24 uses it for periodisation of the Roman Empire that others refer to; Kaldellis all together rejects it; and it separately has had a huge impact on medieval and modern law but that's beyond the scope of this article though it does link to the section about law as it was in Justinian's code). If<s> someone can help me obtain access to Bleicken which I've had trouble with, I would appreciate that.</s> UPDATE: it only took a few hours and two months but I <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/embed/prinzipatunddomi0000blei">found this out-of-print book</a> that all the scholars reference; now I just need to learn German...</dd> <dd>Military is a complex topic I'm reading about now and plan to draft new copy hopefully this month when I get some free time. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240714201700-Nikkimaria-20240713012500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> and @<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a>, I've worked on the bibliography formatting, namely the links to authors and editors, locations of publication and consistent use of ISBN13. Could you review this? Once this is OK'd then I can start work on the reference formatting. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240805061700-Nikkimaria-20240713012500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:17, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a>: Feel free to ping me when this article is ready to be reviewed. I could consider the article ready when there is no uncited text, the prose size is reduced (currently at over 13,000 words), and the article has been copyedited (anyone can do that, or even split the work). <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240805065200-Matarisvan-20240805061700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:52, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi, I was looking for a review of just the formatting of the bibliography. I believe it would be much better to do piecemeal reviews since, as you said, the article size is large. Wdyt? Please let me know, <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240805070400-Z1720-20240805065200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:04, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a>: I'd prefer to wait until the whole article is ready: there have been times when editors asked me to review parts, only to disappear later. However, the following listed sources are not used as inline citations, and should either be included or removed: Dennis, George T. (1985), Chrysos, Evangelos (1992), Bury, John Bagnell; Philotheus (1911), Antonucci, Michael (1993), Seeck, Otto, ed. (1876). <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240805153000-Matarisvan-20240805070400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:30, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I will look through these sources and see if anything in there can be added here. Cheers <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240805163500-Z1720-20240805153000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Those are all references that were previously in the diplomacy section, a review completed after Matarisvan's review. I reviewed diplomacy in late July and agree that they can be removed (except the Chrysos that in now listed as a chapter in Shepherd). <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240805173600-Z1720-20240805153000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a>, could you confirm whether it would be alright if these 5 unused sources were removed? If so, I will remove them. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20240806080100-Biz-20240805173600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:01, 6 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes, though I think since this was discussed it has been removed. We would love it if you could continue to join us in the review, the more eyes the better. Let's discuss the work <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review/Byzantine_Empire/archive3" title="Wikipedia talk:Featured article review/Byzantine Empire/archive3">on this talk</a> or the <a href="/wiki/Talk:Byzantine_Empire" title="Talk:Byzantine Empire">articles's talk</a> and keep this page just for <s>pulse</s> general updates. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240806160600-Matarisvan-20240806080100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:06, 6 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>I am free once again, and expect progress to be made swiftly and efficiently over the next month. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240720235500-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:55, 20 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Quick update: we now have two subject-matter experts updating/rewriting the sections on both economy and religion. I expect to get to the art section soon. – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240807053900-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:39, 7 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Comprehensive status update as of August 20 2024</li></ul> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/File:Pictogram_voting_wait.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Pictogram_voting_wait.svg/18px-Pictogram_voting_wait.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Pictogram_voting_wait.svg/27px-Pictogram_voting_wait.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Pictogram_voting_wait.svg/36px-Pictogram_voting_wait.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"/></a> Doing... History and Arts are progressing but I defer to Airship and Aza given they are updating here. I'm working on Law next</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/File:Pictogram_voting_wait.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Pictogram_voting_wait.svg/18px-Pictogram_voting_wait.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Pictogram_voting_wait.svg/27px-Pictogram_voting_wait.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Pictogram_voting_wait.svg/36px-Pictogram_voting_wait.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"/></a> Doing... Religion was rewritten by an editor with expertise in the topic (Jenhawk777), Economy similarly for the first paragraph by another editor (Graearms) but needs more work, and both will need to be reviewed by different editor later.</dd> <dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done Governance and Diplomacy have been recently reviewed.</dd> <dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done Also reviewed, but new since the FAR started: Geography, Military (Army, Navy).</dd> <dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done Previous sections that are now finalised: Society. They include Transition into an Eastern Christian empire (previously in history), Slavery (new section), Socio-economic (new section partially from women before), Women, and Language.</dd> <dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done Nomenclature from before</dd> <dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done Infobox has now more tightly regulated and simplified.</dd> <dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done Matarisvan has improved the bibliography and converted the remaining references into SFN on the unreviewed sections.</dd> <dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/18px-X_mark.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/27px-X_mark.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/36px-X_mark.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="525" data-file-height="600"/> Not done Other than the before mentioned, what remains is a review of the more straightforward topics of Flags and insignia, Daily Life (Cuisine, Recreation, and we might add Clothing), Science/medicine, and legacy.</dd> <dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/18px-X_mark.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/27px-X_mark.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a2/X_mark.svg/36px-X_mark.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="525" data-file-height="600"/> Not done Airship will be proposing a new article layout, which we may implement once we complete the review to restructure the content and address lingering word count issues, as well as to make the content more accessible</dd> <dd>Overall: We may not be done but the work we've done has now made all of us in the before mentioned 5 of the top 10 authors of the current article which reflects how extensive this content review has been. We also have a <a href="/wiki/Talk:Byzantine_Empire#c-Biz-20240820162900-Citations" title="Talk:Byzantine Empire">battle tested standard on source usage</a> which if we stick to will put it in the strongest state its ever been while also reflecting the latest scholarship, breathing in a new life for this FA. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240820225800-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:58, 20 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240914172600-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Still going, no intention of stopping; article is being gradually improved. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20240914201000-Nikkimaria-20240914172600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Law has been rewritten and the review is complete. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a>'s <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Byzantine_Empire&diff=989940716&oldid=989938043%7C">long standing issues</a>, except length, addressed. Flags and insignia, Daily life (Cuisine, Recreation, Clothing) as well as a new dedicated section for Education in Society have entered into different stages of review right now, with many thanks to <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> this past month for moving us forward. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20240916172800-AirshipJungleman29-20240914201000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 16 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241012141600-SandyGeorgia-20231209142300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:16, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>, we now have only three sections left to rewrite, namely Science & medicine, Legacy and Arts. Other than that, there are only two sections yet to be fully reviewed, namely Daily life and Economy. Once these are done, we have 6 images which need sourcing (compared to the original 12) and TOOBIG issues left to address. I think we could then put the FAR up for voting, though other editors working on the rewrite have raised some more issues which might take a little more time to resolve. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241013134500-Nikkimaria-20241012141600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:45, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The reviews for Flags and insignia, Education, and Clothing are now complete. I plan to focus on Recreation, Cuisine, and Religion next. <a href="/wiki/User:Biz" title="User:Biz">Biz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Biz" title="User talk:Biz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Biz-20241029052900-Matarisvan-20241013134500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:29, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Featured_article_removal_candidates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20230520230400">Featured article removal candidates</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Featured article removal candidates">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd>Place the most recent review at the top. If the nomination is just beginning, place under Featured Article Review, not here.</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="The_Hardy_Boys" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Hardy_Boys-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20241109060600"><a href="/wiki/The_Hardy_Boys" title="The Hardy Boys">The Hardy Boys</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/The_Hardy_Boys/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: The Hardy Boys">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Children%27s_literature" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Children's literature">WikiProject Children's literature</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Novels" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels">WikiProject Novels</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fictional_characters" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Fictional characters">WikiProject Fictional characters</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Ricardiana" title="User:Ricardiana">Ricardiana</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Review_section" data-mw-thread-id="h-Review_section-The_Hardy_Boys-20241109060600">Review section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/The_Hardy_Boys/archive1&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Review section">edit</a>]</div> I am nominating this featured article for review because...This old article isn't written properly. Some of the citations are poorly formatted, for example. the lack of authors and etc. + There are several unsourced statements and too many quote tables + It needs some updates for books and video game appearances + the books, in-other media (should be converted into prose written style, not lists), comics, and especially the video game sections are a mess + Thematic analysis and reception could be expanded. Overall, it needs some love to meet its current FA standard. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241109060600-Review_section" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>From a cursory read, the quote tables do certainly seem a bit odd. They don't provide much context for the work for someone not familiar, and they don't (at first glance) support the content in the text in an obvious way... added captions to put the quotes in context might help. Some parts ("It has been a matter of disagreement regarding the treatment of minorities in the books.") seem like they would fit better in a criticism or reception section. <a href="/wiki/User:Caleb_Stanford" title="User:Caleb Stanford">Caleb Stanford</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Caleb_Stanford" title="User talk:Caleb Stanford">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Caleb_Stanford-20241118163100-Boneless_Pizza!-20241109060600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:31, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Move to FARC: Agree with concerns raised above, and no progress to resolve them. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241123022100-Boneless_Pizza!-20241109060600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:21, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="FARC_section" data-mw-thread-id="h-FARC_section-The_Hardy_Boys-20241123184900">FARC section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/The_Hardy_Boys/archive1&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: FARC section">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and organization. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241123184900-FARC_section" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Tom_Swift" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tom_Swift-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20241019225000"><a href="/wiki/Tom_Swift" title="Tom Swift">Tom Swift</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Tom_Swift/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Tom Swift">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Children%27s_literature" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Children's literature">Wikipedia:WikiProject Children's literature</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Novels" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels">Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fictional_characters" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Fictional characters">Wikipedia:WikiProject Fictional characters</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:NDfan173" title="User:NDfan173">NDfan173</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Ricardiana" title="User:Ricardiana">Ricardiana</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Review_section_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Review_section_2-Tom_Swift-20241019225000">Review section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Tom_Swift/archive1&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Review section">edit</a>]</div> I am nominating this featured article for review because...This old FA article suffers from a lot of sourcing issues. Most of the citations aren't formatted properly, for example. the lack of authors, dates of articles, etc. + the usage of unreliable sources such as ref 53, ref 56, and possibly more + there are a lot of unsourced statements and citation needed tags + the depiction of race section is barely standing with that short content in there + the cultural influence section should definitely be expanded in order for the article to meet the current FA standard. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241019225000-Review_section_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Move to FARC uncited passages remain, and the lead needs to be reformatted as the first paragraph is too long. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241031163300-Boneless_Pizza!-20241019225000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:33, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="FARC_section_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-FARC_section_2-Tom_Swift-20241123184900">FARC section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Tom_Swift/archive1&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: FARC section">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and comprehensiveness. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241123184900-FARC_section_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:49, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20240813200100"><a href="/wiki/Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)" title="Arthur (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire)">Arthur (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire)</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Arthur (Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire)">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:I.M.S." title="User talk:I.M.S.">User:I.M.S.</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:I.M.S.&diff=prev&oldid=1240147389">[3]</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Albums">WikiProject Albums</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums&diff=prev&oldid=1240147059">[4]</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rock_music" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rock music">WikiProject Rock music</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Rock_music&diff=prev&oldid=1240147270">[5]</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Review_section_3" data-mw-thread-id="h-Review_section_3-Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)-20240813200100">Review section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)/archive1&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Review section">edit</a>]</div> I am nominating this featured article for review because... the article no longer meets the FA criteria in its current state. An old FA from 2010, there are citation needed tags, not enough critical reviews, unsourced sections (personnel), and some questionable sources (kindakinks.net). – <a href="/wiki/User:Zmbro" title="User:Zmbro">zmbro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zmbro" title="User talk:Zmbro">talk</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Zmbro" title="Special:Contributions/Zmbro">cont</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Zmbro-20240813200100-Review_section_3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:01, 13 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><ul><li>Comment Personnel doesn't inherently need a source; per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PERSONNEL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PERSONNEL">WP:PERSONNEL</a>, "Similar to the track listing requirements, it is generally assumed that a personnel section is sourced from the liner notes. In some cases, it will be necessary to use third-party sources to include performers who are not credited in the liner notes."</li></ul></dd> <dd>Ten Pound Hammer • (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TenPoundHammer" title="User talk:TenPoundHammer">What did I screw up now?</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-TenPoundHammer-20240814212000-Zmbro-20240813200100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 14 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> @<a href="/wiki/User:Zmbro" title="User:Zmbro">Zmbro</a>: Let me see what I can do to save this article. Doesn't look too bad (I say before I inevitably discover a shitshow behind the scenes). <a href="/wiki/User:Famous_Hobo" title="User:Famous Hobo">Famous Hobo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Famous_Hobo" title="User talk:Famous Hobo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Famous_Hobo-20240816214300-Review_section_3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 16 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Notifying <a href="/wiki/User:Tkbrett" title="User:Tkbrett">Tkbrett</a> in case he's interested. – <a href="/wiki/User:Zmbro" title="User:Zmbro">zmbro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zmbro" title="User talk:Zmbro">talk</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Zmbro" title="Special:Contributions/Zmbro">cont</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Zmbro-20240817181400-Famous_Hobo-20240816214300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:14, 17 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for the ping <a href="/wiki/User:Zmbro" title="User:Zmbro">zmbro</a>. I will be passing on this one though. <a href="/wiki/User:Tkbrett" title="User:Tkbrett">Tkbrett</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tkbrett" title="User talk:Tkbrett"> (✉)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Tkbrett-20240825145800-Zmbro-20240817181400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:58, 25 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Famous_Hobo" title="User:Famous Hobo">Famous Hobo</a>, are you still intending to work on this? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240907150200-Famous_Hobo-20240816214300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>: Sorry for the delay, been on a long work trip. I do intend to continue working on this article. <a href="/wiki/User:Famous_Hobo" title="User:Famous Hobo">Famous Hobo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Famous_Hobo" title="User talk:Famous Hobo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Famous_Hobo-20241001022600-Famous_Hobo-20240816214300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:26, 1 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Famous_Hobo" title="User:Famous Hobo">Famous Hobo</a>, any update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241102143900-Famous_Hobo-20241001022600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Move to FARC: Uncited statements remain, no edits since September. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241116001000-Famous_Hobo-20240816214300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:10, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="FARC_section_3" data-mw-thread-id="h-FARC_section_3-Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)-20241123185000">FARC section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Arthur_(Or_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_British_Empire)/archive1&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: FARC section">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Issues raised in the review section include sourcing and comprehensiveness. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241123185000-FARC_section_3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:50, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Bart_Simpson" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bart_Simpson-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20241101065400"><a href="/wiki/Bart_Simpson" title="Bart Simpson">Bart Simpson</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Bart_Simpson/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Bart Simpson">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_The_Simpsons" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject The Simpsons">WikiProject The Simpsons</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Television" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Television">WikiProject Television</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Animation" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Animation">WikiProject Animation</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Comedy" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Comedy">WikiProject Comedy</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fictional_characters" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Fictional characters">WikiProject Fictional characters</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Gran2" title="User:Gran2">Gran2</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Scorpion0422" title="User:Scorpion0422">Scorpion0422</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Review_section_4" data-mw-thread-id="h-Review_section_4-Bart_Simpson-20241101065400">Review section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Bart_Simpson/archive1&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Review section">edit</a>]</div> I am nominating this featured article for review because...The article is obviously outdated and doesn't meet the modern FA criteria. The article went a lot of changes and the prose isn't FA quality already. There are lots of reliable and scholarly sources that need to be updated for the article to be updated + the article uses a lot of low-quality sources and the citations are poorly formatted. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241101065400-Review_section_4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:54, 1 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Move to FARC The article needs to be updated with 2010-2024 information. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241110162900-Boneless_Pizza!-20241101065400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:29, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Move to FARC – lacks information for the last ~15 years and sourcing needs improving. I don't think the prose is too bad, but the article would need a lot of updating to keep the star. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20241110201800-Boneless_Pizza!-20241101065400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:18, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="FARC_section_4" data-mw-thread-id="h-FARC_section_4-Bart_Simpson-20241116231500">FARC section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Bart_Simpson/archive1&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: FARC section">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Issues raised in the review section include currency and sourcing. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241116231500-FARC_section_4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 16 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Considering, @<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">Boneless Pizza!</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a>: what specifically needs updating? I could fix the citation formatting and low-quality cites. <a href="/wiki/User:750h%2B" title="User:750h+">750</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:750h%2B" title="User talk:750h+">h+</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-750h+-20241120104100-Nikkimaria-20241116231500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:41, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Do we need to be specific btw? Most of the section looks like you really needs to start from scratch. Its a lot of work, not just updating though. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241120160700-750h+-20241120104100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">Boneless Pizza!</a>: Naming the specific sections that need updating helps others, as interested editors can take a look and see if they agree or disagree. A one-sentence statement about what needs to be updated, or suggestions on what to add, can also help, especially from subject-matter experts who can identify what is missing. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241120171600-Boneless_Pizza!-20241120160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">Boneless Pizza!</a>: per Z1720, if you want me to help i'm gonna need a little more than that (i've never worked on a cartoon character before) <a href="/wiki/User:750h%2B" title="User:750h+">750</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:750h%2B" title="User talk:750h+">h+</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-750h+-20241120234000-Boneless_Pizza!-20241120160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:40, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm not expert either at cartoon characters, except at video games. But yeah,at first glance it needs a lot of improvement 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241121145800-750h+-20241120234000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:58, 21 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">Boneless Pizza!</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a>: I'm going to ping @<a href="/wiki/User:Xeroctic" title="User:Xeroctic">Xeroctic</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Pallettown" title="User:Pallettown">Pallettown</a>: who seem to be frequent contributors to the project, but otherwise I'm moving towards keep rather than delist (not officially voting now), as aside from the citation formatting, one page needed tag and minor copyedits that could be implemented, the article seems to be in fine shape, aside from the unreliable sources which I can remove and replace (not too much work). I don't see any need to add anything date-related unless he appears in another movie or something extraordinary happens; the article doesn't list many dates (it primarily lists his characteristics and developments) and doesn't need to list every episode he appears in. I'm happy to fix the issues remaining however. <a href="/wiki/User:750h%2B" title="User:750h+">750</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:750h%2B" title="User talk:750h+">h+</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-750h+-20241123132000-Boneless_Pizza!-20241121145800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:20, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>+ the reception section needs to be overhauled and expanded; while the character's design and merchandise section needs to be expanded more. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241123132400-750h+-20241123132000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:24, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">Boneless Pizza!</a>: sounds easy. Will do once I finish some other work. <a href="/wiki/User:750h%2B" title="User:750h+">750</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:750h%2B" title="User talk:750h+">h+</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-750h+-20241123132600-Boneless_Pizza!-20241123132400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:26, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:750h%2B" title="User:750h+">750h+</a> Wow, it seems like all the tough ones look easy at you. You're also pretty quick at gaining more of those brown stars. Wikipedia should be thankful at your work! 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241123133200-750h+-20241123132600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm trying to save the more iconic ones like this and <a href="/wiki/The_Notorious_B.I.G." title="The Notorious B.I.G.">the Notorious B.I.G.</a> because you'd probably rather something never be an FA rather than it being an FA and seeing it get delisted, and so if it's an iconic person that just makes it all the more depressing, which is why i'm trying to stop it <a href="/wiki/User:750h%2B" title="User:750h+">750</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:750h%2B" title="User talk:750h+">h+</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-750h+-20241123133800-Boneless_Pizza!-20241123133200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:38, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>It seems like you're not only good at Car articles, interesting. Honestly, I'm also on verge of sending <a href="/wiki/Homer_Simpson" title="Homer Simpson">Homer Simpson</a> to FAR soon as I'm maintaining the FAs at WP:Fictional characters asap. Though, I only work RE characters. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241123135400-750h+-20241123133800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:54, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>There's not much information about the character past 2010. The only two sentences I could find were "In "Simpsorama" (season 26, 2014) Bart states his birthday as February 23" and "In 2022, Paste writers claimed that Bart is the 26th best cartoon character of all time". <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20241120190200-750h+-20241120104100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> Since I was pinged, I will mention that I put <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_topic_removal_candidates/Simpson_family/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured topic removal candidates/Simpson family/archive1">the corresponding good topic</a> for delisting a while ago (due to the delisting of Maggie and partially due to this FAR being pending). Having edited this article occasionally, I am mostly making minor rewordings and doing redirect maintenance rather than writing content. There has been a little noteworthy coverage in recent years that could be added, such as <a href="/wiki/Bart%27s_Birthday" title="Bart's Birthday">the character's non-canon 11th birthday</a>, which could warrant a brief mention in the article (but I am unsure where it would be most suitable). <a href="/wiki/User:Xeroctic" title="User:Xeroctic">Xeroctic</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xeroctic" title="User talk:Xeroctic">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Xeroctic-20241123143200-FARC_section_4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:32, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Some additional comments after a quick review: <ul><li>"In "The Blue and the Gray", Bart (along with Lisa and Maggie) finally questions why his hair has no visible border to separate head from hair." is uncited. I'm not sure it is necessary in the article: if it is, the explanation should be included.</li> <li>In "Hallmarks" there's an entire paragraph devoted to Bart's nude scene in the Simpson's Movie. Is this really a Hallmark if it happens once, or perhaps its just fancruft and can be removed.</li> <li>"Groening, Matt (October 28, 2010)." is listed in the Bibliography but is not used as an inline citation.</li></ul></dd> <dd>I hope this helps. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241123155500-Xeroctic-20241123143200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:55, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><ul><li>In terms of the nude skateboarding scene, it provides as an example of the nudity hallmark (although I think that <a href="/wiki/Mooning" title="Mooning">mooning</a> should be mentioned as his nudity is predominantly that), it has received at least some press coverage, and it is mentioned in two other articles, so I think it could stay. <a href="/wiki/User:Xeroctic" title="User:Xeroctic">Xeroctic</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xeroctic" title="User talk:Xeroctic">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Xeroctic-20241123160700-Z1720-20241123155500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The quote boxes looked quite messy, I think it should be removed also since modern FAC doesn't recommend hat. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241123234000-Xeroctic-20241123160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:40, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'll also add that if its possible also to remove all the citations at lead so it will looked clean. 🍕<a href="/wiki/User:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User:Boneless Pizza!">BP!</a>🍕 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boneless_Pizza!" title="User talk:Boneless Pizza!">🔔</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Boneless_Pizza!-20241124011600-Boneless_Pizza!-20241123234000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:16, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Emmy_Noether" data-mw-thread-id="h-Emmy_Noether-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20240115202600"><a href="/wiki/Emmy_Noether" title="Emmy Noether">Emmy Noether</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Emmy_Noether/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Emmy Noether">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Scartol" title="User talk:Scartol">Scartol</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:WillowW" title="User talk:WillowW">WillowW</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Germany" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Germany">WikiProject Germany</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography">WikiProject Biography</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mathematics">WikiProject Mathematics</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women%27s_History" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women's History">WikiProject Women's History</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women_scientists" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women scientists">WikiProject Women scientists</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Physics" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Physics">WikiProject Physics</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women_writers" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women writers">WikiProject Women writers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Socialism" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Socialism">WikiProject Socialism</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women_in_Green" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Green">WikiProject Women in Green</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AEmmy_Noether&diff=1171336484&oldid=1148831292">2023-08-20</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Review_section_5" data-mw-thread-id="h-Review_section_5-Emmy_Noether-20240115202600">Review section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Emmy_Noether/archive1&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Review section">edit</a>]</div> I am nominating this featured article for review because there are numerous citation concerns, including an orange banner at the top of the "Contributions to mathematics and physics" section and an uncited "List of doctoral students" section. There's also a lot of great prose describing math concepts, but much of this does not describe how Noether contributed to these concepts and I don't think much of it is necessary for the reader to understand how Noether contributed to the ideas. I think this would need a math specialist to help improve the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240115202600-Review_section_5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I added a source for the entire doctoral students section. Also, far be it from me to ignite another "anti-intellectualism" GAR/FAR firestorm, but the line "I don't think much of it is necessary for the reader to understand" rubs me the wrong way. Yes, to understand Noether's accomplishments it is necessary to understand the mathematics and physics concepts she worked with. That said, I agree that the contributions section could be better sourced; we used to allow unsourced background material that we would expect any student of the subject to have some familiarity with, but those days are gone. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20240115214100-Z1720-20240115202600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:41, 15 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To expand upon my comment about what the reader needs to understand: after reading the article when making the nomination, I found that some sections did a great job explaining the math, but struggled to connect it to Noether. For example, in the "Background on abstract algebra" section, Noether is not mentioned until paragraph 4. I would expect Noether's contributions to be more prominent and mentioned first, then the mathematical principles explained by connecting it to Noether's contributions. I think the "First epoch (1908–1919): Physics", all the second epoch, and all the third epoch sections do this well; I think the other sections need to feature Noether more prominently, which might involve removing some information, and will probably involve moving around some information. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240115223000-David_Eppstein-20240115214100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:30, 15 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>We get an issue with accessibility or focus whichever way you slice it: either there's maths explanations with nothing to do with Noether, or the descriptions are only accessible to those familiar with elementary algebra. If you don't understand what a group is, it's impossible to understand Noether's contributions to maths. I don't think you can reverse the order of it.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>The subject matter is necessarily extremely technical. What might not be obvious to layreaders is that (e.g.) the group representations paragraph is child's play compared to the statement of Noether's problem. This is the dumbing down as far as possible without distorting the facts. I can wax lyrical about group representations but Galois theory makes my head hurt. By focusing on big picture ("it's all about symmetries", "like prime numbers") and toy examples (the discriminant, polynomial splitting fields), but also giving the full statements of what Noether studied, I think the article does quite well. I feel it's best left as is unless someone is jumping to make it a big project of theirs.<div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div>My comments at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Emmy_Noether#WP:URFA/2020" title="Talk:Emmy Noether">Talk:Emmy Noether#WP:URFA/2020</a> were to indicate that I do not think there are major citation issues—it's more a style issue, as convention has changed since 2008. I do feel this article would benefit from a mathematician giving it a full copyedit, with an algebra textbook to hand for some inline citations. — <a href="/wiki/User:Bilorv" title="User:Bilorv">Bilorv</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bilorv" title="User talk:Bilorv">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Bilorv-20240116221000-Z1720-20240115223000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:10, 16 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Bilorv said more or less what I was going to. The ordering in the "<a href="/wiki/Emmy_Noether#Background_on_abstract_algebra_and_begriffliche_Mathematik_(conceptual_mathematics)" title="Emmy Noether">Background on abstract algebra</a>" passage makes sense because, well, it's background. It has to cover concepts that were introduced a half-century before Noether was even born. That's just how math works: it's a cumulative subject, and we can't always take a thin slice out of it and hope for a meaningful result. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> Much of the uncited material can probably be found in any textbook on the area (e.g., the definition of a <a href="/wiki/Ring_(mathematics)" title="Ring (mathematics)">ring</a> or a <a href="/wiki/Group_representation" title="Group representation">group representation</a> is standard stuff). I did what I could with the books that I had near my desk, but I am too tired to do more and need a very very long break. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20240120001500-Bilorv-20240116221000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:15, 20 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I don't believe the "List of doctoral students" section is necessary in the first place. "All" (i.e. those with wikilinks) the notable students are in the infobox and a table list of their dissertations and defenses seem somewhat superfluous. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240124020000-Z1720-20240115202600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm going to remove the section. Feel free to revert or add it back if you disagree. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240124021700-Sgubaldo-20240124020000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:17, 24 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I also realised there were two separate "Recognition" sections, which I merged together. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240126022400-Sgubaldo-20240124021700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:24, 26 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I strongly disagree with this removal. Everything in the infobox should be a summary of main-article text. The infobox should not supplant the article. See <a href="/wiki/MOS:INFOBOX" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:INFOBOX">MOS:INFOBOX</a>: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">When considering any aspect of infobox design, keep in mind the purpose of an infobox: to summarize (and not supplant) key facts that appear in the article</q>. If you include the list of doctoral students only in the infobox, then readers looking for a non-superficial summary will not find that information. Or, to put it another way, if it is so important to the article that it needs to be summarized in the infobox, so that even low-attention-span readers skimming the infobox find it, then it is also so important to the article that it should be covered properly in the article. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20240127192900-Sgubaldo-20240126022400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:29, 27 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I know the infobox shouldn't supplant the article. My reasoning was that the infobox could have the names of all her notable doctoral students while the article went into more detail (which it does, in the "Graduate students and influential lectures" section; I recognise it's in need of some more sentences about her doctoral students specifically). I still don't believe a list of their dissertations and defense dates is of benefit to the average reader, but I'll leave it. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240127201100-David_Eppstein-20240127192900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 27 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm not wedded to the specific table format. A more prose-like format such as a bulleted list might be better. The titles of the dissertations are less important than their overall topics and what happened afterward to each student. And the placement of the list of students in the article would make more sense in the section you mention than as an appendix at the end. But if one is looking for a complete list of her students (or, what the infobox lists, her bluelinked students) one won't find anything resembling that in the "Graduate students and influential lectures" section in its current state. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20240127214600-Sgubaldo-20240127201100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:46, 27 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I agree. After the citation issues are resolved, perhaps the "Graduate students and influential lectures" section can be expanded to include more information about her doctoral students, but I don't think it should make or break the article's Featured status. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240129160900-David_Eppstein-20240127214600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:09, 29 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>I agree with David Eppstein that the doctoral students should be mentioned in the body. An exhaustive list makes sense to me, with dissertation topic (e.g. <a href="/wiki/P-adic_numbers" class="mw-redirect" title="P-adic numbers">p-adic numbers</a>) and anything the student was later known for. It would also make sense to incorporate them into the chronological account of her life, but the issue might be that she had so many notable students that it could overwhelm the rest of the section's focus. — <a href="/wiki/User:Bilorv" title="User:Bilorv">Bilorv</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bilorv" title="User talk:Bilorv">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Bilorv-20240129213200-Sgubaldo-20240124020000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 29 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes, I agree with ensuring they are mentioned in the body. My reasoning was that dissertation titles and defense dates are not that important. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240130135300-Bilorv-20240129213200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:53, 30 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think the dates are worth keeping. The titles, if we have topics instead, can go. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20240130202700-Sgubaldo-20240130135300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:27, 30 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>For now, I've added an initial mention of the two Erlangen students in the "Graduate students and influential lectures" section. They don't seem too notable though and could probably be moved up to the "Teaching period" one instead. Unfortunately, I don't think I'd be of much help with the citation issues. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240204012700-David_Eppstein-20240130202700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:27, 4 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> Comment Work seems to have slowed down, but several sourcing problems remain. Are editors still working on this? <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240308141300-Review_section_5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:13, 8 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I won't have the time to properly sit down and crack on with this until towards the end of March. After that, I'm happy to continue working on the doctoral students part. As I said above, the citation issues in the "Contributions to mathematics and physics" section may require someone with more expertise than me in the area. Besides, beyond those two issues, I think the article is worthy of FA status, and I made some structural changes that made the article (in my view) neater. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240308151400-Z1720-20240308141300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:14, 8 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Improvements have definately been made (thanks everyone!) but I still have citation concerns, as there are some paragraphs which do not have any inline citations. Would it be helpful if I tagged the areas that I felt needed citations for others to address? <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240308160700-Sgubaldo-20240308151400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That would be helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240308165100-Z1720-20240308160700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:51, 8 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Note a seems to use inline references, which should be converted to inline citations (footnotes). <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240308170700-Sgubaldo-20240308165100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:07, 8 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Working my way through as many of those as I can. Will update when I stall out. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Firefangledfeathers-20240308220900-Z1720-20240308170700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 8 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Oh, now we're forbidden even footnotes from having parenthetical citations within them? So we need a separate footnote inside the footnote to be the reference? No. Just no. This blind fanaticism serves no encyclopedic purpose. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20240309024700-Firefangledfeathers-20240308220900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:47, 9 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I misindented my comment. I've been working through the cn tags. Haven't looked into the note. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Firefangledfeathers-20240309025800-David_Eppstein-20240309024700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:58, 9 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>My reply was aimed more at Z1720 than you. Going through cn tags and finding citations for them is a very useful thing to be doing. Putting nested footnotes into footnotes because of an aversion to mixing footnote text with footnote citations, less useful. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20240309073600-Firefangledfeathers-20240309025800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:36, 9 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240323143500-Z1720-20240308141300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:35, 23 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240413043300-Nikkimaria-20240323143500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 13 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>The inline reference issue in Note a has been fixed. Two cn tags remain, and the <a href="/wiki/Emmy_Nother#Second_epoch_(1920–1926)" class="mw-redirect" title="Emmy Nother">section on her second epoch</a> might need some citations too. The rest of the article seems good. Beyond that, I had the idea of making her doctoral students part of the prose rather than an explicit table at the bottom of the article, but that shouldn't make or break FA-status. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240413205100-Nikkimaria-20240323143500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 13 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Agree with Sgubaldo. Haven't given up on the last few cns. Just been busy. I'll either fix them soon or throw in the towel. <a href="/wiki/User:Firefangledfeathers" title="User:Firefangledfeathers">Firefangledfeathers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Firefangledfeathers" title="User talk:Firefangledfeathers">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers" title="Special:Contributions/Firefangledfeathers">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Firefangledfeathers-20240415120000-Sgubaldo-20240413205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:00, 15 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I found something in Page 99 of Emmy Noether: The Mother of Modern Algebra by Margaret B. W. Tent for the phrase 'Her family paid for her room and board and supported her academic work' as mentioned on the talk page, but i'm a little skeptical of using it as a source since it's mostly aimed at teenagers and the author takes some literary creativity and makes up conversations between historical figures. No luck on the other cn tag yet. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240415122900-Firefangledfeathers-20240415120000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:29, 15 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I removed the "Her family paid" line. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20240415215700-Sgubaldo-20240415122900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:57, 15 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240504034200-Z1720-20240308141300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:42, 4 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I haven't been paying attention to the bigger picture, but I resolved what I think was the last remaining cleanup tag a couple days ago. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20240504051100-Nikkimaria-20240504034200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:11, 4 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I've prosified the doctoral students and added some references in certain places. If a reviewer could go through and check again what else they feel needs a citation, that would help. Other than that, I think this should be done. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20240511132800-Nikkimaria-20240504034200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:28, 11 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Move to FARC My concerns about this article are still present: there is off-topic information that does not relate to Noether's life and lots of uncited information. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241012165500-Z1720-20240308141300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:55, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If you think that is true then why have you done nothing to make your concerns more specific, for instance by responding last May when the comments immediately above this talked about resolving all remaining cleanup tags? We cannot clean up what we cannot see, and we cannot read your mind if you will not tell it to us. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241012175600-Z1720-20241012165500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Frankly, this baffles me. Nothing in the article as it stands is "off-topic" to my eye. Rather, it's all either straight biography or attempts to explain the mathematical topics on which Noether worked. In other words, cutting anything would risk having an article that fails to work as a self-contained unit. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241012215300-Z1720-20241012165500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>In my opinion, a lot of the information in "Background on abstract algebra and begriffliche Mathematik (conceptual mathematics)" can be summarized better: it is a lot of detail that would probably be better explained in the articles of those concepts. "Algebraic invariant theory", "Galois theory", also have a lot of text explaining the mathematical concept when this could be better explained in the concept's article. This article is over 9,000 words, which <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TOOBIG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TOOBIG">WP:TOOBIG</a> recommends be split and reduced: I think there are opportunities in this article to move information to other places. This article doesn't need to be a self-contained unit, because it is part of a wider Wikipedia project and users can go to other articles to get more detailed information. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241012222200-XOR'easter-20241012215300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>So, to put it bluntly, you want to gut the intellectual contributions from a biography of someone known for her intellectual contributions, in favor of a greater emphasis on routine biographical information? Perhaps you can explain how this fits with your understanding of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FACR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FACR">WP:FACR</a> #1b, in which we are asked to ensure that the article "neglects no major facts or details and places the subject in context"? The sections you object to are exactly placing the subject in context. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241012225500-Z1720-20241012222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:55, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>An article about Emmy Noether needs to explain why a whole host of major concepts are called Noether's or Noetherian. That's far more important than the rules of thumb in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TOOBIG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TOOBIG">WP:TOOBIG</a>, which are made up anyway. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241013004000-Z1720-20241012222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:40, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>In my opinion, the article does not need as much information as it currently has on explaining the mathematical concepts. It would be better to summarise the theories in fewer words and give more detail of their explanation in the theory's article. The long explanations of these theories are against <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FA%3F" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FA?">WP:FA?</a> #4, and I do not see how these very long explanations of concepts are major facts of Noether's work. Instead, they are going into too much detail of the background before Noether's contributions or giving too much detail in their explanation. I look forward to new editors reviewing the article and giving their thoughts so that a consensus can form. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241013013900-XOR'easter-20241013004000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Even <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.kidscanpress.com/product/emmy-noether/">this biography of Noether aimed at children aged 6-8</a> claims to include "explanations of complex mathematical concepts". Are you suggesting that Wikipedia should fall below even the mathematical sophistication of a children's book? Because that's what I am getting from your comments here. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241013033900-Z1720-20241013013900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:39, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>The explanations currently in the article are already very short compared to what an article devoted to a Noetherian math topic would be. For example, our page on <a href="/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem" title="Noether's theorem">Noether's theorem</a> is, by itself, over half the length of the entire <a href="/wiki/Emmy_Noether" title="Emmy Noether">Emmy Noether</a> page, and much longer than the corresponding subsection here, <a href="/wiki/Emmy_Noether#Physics" title="Emmy Noether">Emmy Noether#Physics</a>, which is all of three paragraphs. We're not teaching a course in ring theory or advanced classical mechanics here; we're doing pretty much the bare minimum to explain what Noether herself did and why it matters. <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> I'd be amenable to judicious trimming, but that would require a sentence-by-sentence reading to decide what phrases might be diversions or superfluous details, not a vaguewave at the FA criteria. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241013180600-Z1720-20241013013900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:06, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="FARC_section_5" data-mw-thread-id="h-FARC_section_5-Emmy_Noether-20241019141200">FARC section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Emmy_Noether/archive1&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: FARC section">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Moving to get more input regarding this article's status WRT the FA criteria. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241019141200-FARC_section_5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li><s>Delist</s> My thoughts in the FARC remain unchanged, and the issues I brought up haven't been resolved yet. If there are any changes, please ping me and I can take another look. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241028230300-FARC_section_5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:03, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>Striking this, progress is continuing. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241031165900-Z1720-20241028230300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:59, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li><dl><dd><ul><li>Keep. (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">Personal attack removed</a>) The article is well written, well sourced, and significantly improved since the FA began. It covers Noether's life and work in appropriate detail.</li></ul></dd> <dd>—<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241029013900-Z1720-20241028230300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:39, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> @<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a>. This does not mean I must support the argument of delisting a status. As a not-so-thoroughly-expert-at-FA-reviewer and not a fan of biographical articles, I found they remain unsourced in the following: <ul><li>These courses often preceded major publications on the same subjects.[citation needed]</li> <li>Some other facts remained unsourced in the section "Background on abstract algebra and begriffliche Mathematik (conceptual mathematics)": <a href="/wiki/Lasker%E2%80%93Noether_theorem" class="mw-redirect" title="Lasker–Noether theorem">Lasker–Noether theorem</a> and her other works in further explanation.</li> <li>"An algebra consists of a choice..."</li> <li>First epoch and second epoch</li></ul> Overall, the article looks good, and its status can be preserved. But this question for me: do all of these need citations for, keeping in mind, supporting the facts? <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241029033300-FARC_section_5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:33, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Whether or not these need citations (I haven't taken the time to formulate an opinion) that is already more helpful than Z1720's claim of "lots of uncited information" but refusal to respond to requests like "If a reviewer could go through and check again what else they feel needs a citation" from last May. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241029035200-Dedhert.Jr-20241029033300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:52, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Not sure how can I comprehend your words here: it is better to give a list of which parts that is unsourced, unlike the user who says to fix up everything without giving more details of the problem? <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241029041000-David_Eppstein-20241029035200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:10, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That was what I meant, yes. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241029044900-Dedhert.Jr-20241029041000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> So, I think I shall leave this to you. Hope you don't mind. I wish I can help but biographical articles are not my thing. I'll see if I can find some spots. <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241029113400-David_Eppstein-20241029044900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:34, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a>: I have added cn tags where I think citations are needed. There are some sentences where the citation is in the middle, instead of at the end of the sentence: I did not check to see if these citations verify the information after the citation. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241029121800-Dedhert.Jr-20241029113400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:18, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> If you found things that is not in the criteria, please make a list of bullets. Users may understand and start to fix up, just like how normally users reviews GAN. You don't mind, eh? <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241029122400-Z1720-20241029121800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:24, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> Here's a list of my concerns: <ul><li>There are uncited statements, which I have noted with citation needed tags.</li> <li>There is a lot of prose that describes the background information of mathematical concepts which is not directly related to Noether. While some background information is necessary, I think the "Background on abstract algebra and begriffliche Mathematik (conceptual mathematics)" goes into too much detail on mathematical concepts that are better explained on the concept's own article page.</li> <li>The "First epoch (1908–1919)", "Second epoch (1920–1926)" and "Third epoch (1927–1935)" sections spend a lot of time explaining the mathematical concepts, but do not explain Noether's contribution or how she discovered them. These sections need to more closely link Noether to the work.</li> <li>Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONEDOWN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONEDOWN">WP:ONEDOWN</a>, many of the math concepts explained in this article are too technical for the average, interested reader to understand. This article is a biography of this person and a reader should know how her discoveries affected mathematics. The large amount of mathematical information and high-concept language makes this difficult, and I think this information would be better on the mathematic concepts pages, rather than here.</li> <li>The following sources are listed in "Sources" but are not used in the article: Blue, Meredith (2001), Huff, Kendra (2011), Kimberling, Clark (March 1982), Schmadel, Lutz D. (2003), Lemmermeyer, Franz; Roquette, Peter, eds. (2006), Noether, Emmy; Brewer, James W; Smith, Martha K (1981), Schmadel, Lutz D. (2003).</li></ul> Hope this helps. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241029123800-FARC_section_5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:38, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Keep conditional on the explicit {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Citation_needed" title="Template:Citation needed">citation needed</a>}} tags being resolved. I do not see the case for shuffling actual mathematical content in a mathematician's biography off to other articles. Nor do I see a real conflict with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONEDOWN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONEDOWN">WP:ONEDOWN</a> rule of thumb. The most technical parts of the article are about mathematics one sees in graduate school, and they're pitched to an upper-level undergraduate audience. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241029190200-Z1720-20241029123800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:02, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Speaking of the mathematical fields alongside its technical, apparently algebra is somewhat intended to be technical in this case, no matter how one would like to try to gloss it into the least technical as possible. I think other fields such as mathematical analysis or calculus, or topology, are similar cases. <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241030020000-XOR'easter-20241029190200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:00, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>On hold, awaiting content's improvements before picking either delist or keep. I prefer not to delist the status because some users would like to keep it, nor to keep it because the content is still debatable and especially in shambles quality of unsourced facts. Some responses from me to Z1720: <ul><li>Replying "There is a lot of prose that describes the background information of mathematical concepts which is not directly related to Noether": I cannot find anything that exactly means here. If I look at it again, it is actually the opposite. Can you tell us more specifically?</li> <li>Replying "Three epochs": Ditto, but waiting for the sources.</li> <li>Replying WP:ONEDOWN: Already explained in XOR'easter's reasons to keep.</li></ul></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241030021000-Z1720-20241029123800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:10, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I do not understand the "more closely link Noether to the work" comment at all. The "epochs" sections are full of her contributions. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">In 1918, Noether published ... Noether provided the resolution of this paradox ... Noether's theorem has become a fundamental tool ... In this epoch, Noether became famous for ... In 1923–1924, Noether applied her ideal theory to ...</q> And so forth. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241030031800-Dedhert.Jr-20241030021000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:18, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Then I guess this leaves to the sourcing problems, after which I might be vote for the status. <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241030040000-XOR'easter-20241030031800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:00, 30 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd>Sources either added or removed/moved to Further Reading where not needed. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20241120010100-Z1720-20241029123800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:01, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> Responding to some of the above: <ul><li>Re: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONELEVELDOWN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONELEVELDOWN">WP:ONELEVELDOWN</a>: if this was a math article, I would be more receptive to the argument that information is geared towards graduate students. However, this is a biography article, and as such I think all of the prose should be more accessible to a wider audience. I think the goal for the language in this article should be to be readable to an interested high school student with an exceptional understanding of basic algebra concepts: after reading the article, the high school student should be able to explain in a basic way what her contributions to mathematics are/were.</li> <li>Re: Background information and too much detail: These are the places with the math concepts that I am concerned about:</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>in "Background on abstract algebra and begriffliche Mathematik (conceptual mathematics)" is two paragraphs of background information before Noether is mentioned.</li> <li>In "Algebraic invariant theory" Noether is mentioned in the first paragraph, then there is four paragraphs of information without mentioning Noether.</li> <li>In "Galois theory" Noether is first mentioned in the fourth paragraph.</li></ul></dd> <dd>I think these sections should link Noether to her discoveries sooner and more explicitly. If this prose is background information, I would like that information intertwined with Noether's discoveries more effectively or have information summarised with one paragraph per section of background information being the goal.</dd> <dd>There's a couple reasons for this: <ul><li>The article is over 9,000 words, which <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TOOBIG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TOOBIG">WP:TOOBIG</a> recommends considering <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SPINOUT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SPINOUT">spinning out</a> the information. I think the background information is the best place to consider this.</li> <li>I think too much background information is off-topic for this specific article and the information better served in the appropriate mathematics article.</li> <li>Summarising/moving background information might make the article more accessible to people with less subject matter knowledge, as they will not feel like they have to have a solid foundation of high-level mathematics to have a basic understanding of her contributions. If I wanted high-school students to report on her contributions, they would struggle to simply describe why she is important.</li></ul></dd></dl> Sorry for the long response and the wall of text (ironic considering I want to trim information). I hope it is helpful and happy to summarise below if editors want. I think those were the only two concerns where my comments were requested. If I missed something, please ping me. I struck out my "delist" designation because there is progress being made on the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241031165900-FARC_section_5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:59, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">User:Nikkimaria</a> is refusing to let me include content in this review responding to other reviewers' comments in this review, and has repeatedly redacted my own comments into an accusation of making personal attacks directed against me. Because of this non-neutral behavior, I would like to request that any future coordination of this FAR be performed by someone other than Nikkimaria. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241102185200-Z1720-20241031165900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:52, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>@<a class="mw-selflink selflink">FAR coordinators</a>: <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria"> </a><a href="/wiki/User:Casliber" title="User:Casliber"> </a><a href="/wiki/User:DrKay" title="User:DrKay"> </a> to ping the other FAR coordinators. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241102185800-David_Eppstein-20241102185200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><ul><li>I am asking you to keep your commentary focused on the article, rather than on other reviewers. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241102191000-David_Eppstein-20241102185200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Despite your repeated allegations, the comments you removed were focused explaining why I think certain other comments in this review should be discounted as unreasonable, rather than focused on the person who made those comments. Is that not allowed? Are we required to separately contribute to this FAR, ignoring all other contributors? What kind of process it that? —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241102193600-Nikkimaria-20241102191000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:36, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul></dd></dl> <dl><dd><ul><li><dl><dd><dl><dd>You are welcome to respond to comments made by others, as long as you do so without personalizing. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241102194500-David_Eppstein-20241102193600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul></dd> <dd>Regarding this: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">if this was a math article, I would be more receptive to the argument that information is geared towards graduate students. However, this is a biography article, and as such I think all of the prose should be more accessible to a wider audience.</q> It's a biography of a mathematician, and on top of that, a mathematician whose pioneering contributions were at a rather abstract level. I don't see how the article being a biography can override the fact that it is an article about mathematics. This seems like a matter of personal taste, where mine differs from yours, rather than a factor that should play into FA status one way or the other. Likewise: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">...or have information summarised with one paragraph per section of background information being the goal.</q> This strikes me as a rather arbitrary line (and I doubt that it could be feasible without reducing the mathematics to empty platitudes). <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Summarising/moving background information might make the article more accessible to people with less subject matter knowledge</q> I suspect that the opposite is true. The more times a reader has to click on unfamiliar words and open new browser tabs, the more likely they are to give up. Nor is it the case that pointing the reader to a big page about a whole area of mathematics — <a href="/wiki/Galois_theory" title="Galois theory">Galois theory</a>, let's say — is the right way to inform them about the parts of the subject most relevant for understanding the contributions of Emmy Noether. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241102193300-Z1720-20241031165900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I wonder if we could compare two other FAs <a href="/wiki/Leonhard_Euler#Contributions_to_mathematics_and_physics" title="Leonhard Euler">Leonhard Euler</a> and <a href="/wiki/Georg_Cantor#Mathematical_work" title="Georg Cantor">Georg Cantor</a>, the topic as in geometry, analysis, graph theory, number theory, and more, seem less technical. Unlike <a href="/wiki/Emmy_Noether#Contributions_to_mathematics_and_physics" title="Emmy Noether">Emmy Noether</a> which focus on <a href="/wiki/Abstract_algebra" title="Abstract algebra">abstract algebra</a> topics, the description is difficult to understand naturally because of how abstract the topic is. I think that is also the reason why its section <a href="/wiki/Emmy_Noether#Background_on_abstract_algebra_and_begriffliche_Mathematik_(conceptual_mathematics)" title="Emmy Noether">Background on abstract algebra and begriffliche Mathematik (conceptual mathematics)</a> has so much background of basic explanations about abstract algebra topics???</dd> <dd>Since this article also focuses on mathematics other than biography, is it possible to call FAR coordinators who are in favor of mathematics? <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241103005200-XOR'easter-20241102193300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:52, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a>: I'm not sure what "FAR coordinators who are in favor of mathematics" means. I am not a coordinator, but my understanding of their role is that when this discussion reaches a conclusion, a coordinator will evaluate the discussion here and the article's adherence to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FA%3F" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FA?">featured article criteria</a> and decide whether the article should remain a featured article or be delisted. The criteria for mathematics articles are the same as other articles, and I don't think coordinators have a preference for the type of articles that are featured. Pinging @<a class="mw-selflink selflink">FAR coordinators</a>: <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria"> </a><a href="/wiki/User:Casliber" title="User:Casliber"> </a><a href="/wiki/User:DrKay" title="User:DrKay"> </a> to give a better explanation than me. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241103132400-Dedhert.Jr-20241103005200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:24, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sure. I was trying to say that, since some of the users have criticized your comments about TOOBIG and ONELEVELDOWN problems allegedly, it might ping coordinators who are experts in mathematics as well, ensuring find a solution to the drama of mathematical topics discussed here. <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241103133100-Z1720-20241103132400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>There aren't coordinators assigned to specific subjects. Typically posts at WikiProjects would be a tool to bring in expert reviewers - I see that has already been done in this case. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241104004600-Dedhert.Jr-20241103133100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Perhaps it is worth pointing out that the same issues about TOOBIG and ONELEVELDOWN arose already in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/John_von_Neumann/1" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/John von Neumann/1">Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/John von Neumann/1</a> (a similar case of someone known for research contributions that are both extensive and highly technical). There, Nikkimaria had a (very minor but non-neutral) role on the side of byte-counting and of pushing to cut down much of the technical content. Since the same issues are a central concern in this FAR, I would have greater confidence in the neutrality of some other coordinator. —<a href="/wiki/User:David_Eppstein" title="User:David Eppstein">David Eppstein</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Eppstein" title="User talk:David Eppstein">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-David_Eppstein-20241104013600-Nikkimaria-20241104004600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:36, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I was thinking about the same thing. Considering that rewrite her contribution as summary and then create <a href="/w/index.php?title=Contributions_of_Emmy_Noether&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Contributions of Emmy Noether (page does not exist)">Contributions of Emmy Noether</a> just the similar how did one proposed in John von Neumann, recall that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TECHNICAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TECHNICAL">WP:TECHNICAL</a> have a quote of saying that a good article will always grab of interest so the audience may interest to read it. And for the preassumption, I think it is a 50-50. <a href="/wiki/User:Dedhert.Jr" title="User:Dedhert.Jr">Dedhert.Jr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dedhert.Jr" title="User talk:Dedhert.Jr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Dedhert.Jr-20241104024100-David_Eppstein-20241104013600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:41, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>There are some math topics where we can at least explain the question at a high school/pop science level and then say that the person is famous because they answered it. <a href="/wiki/Andrew_Wiles" title="Andrew Wiles">Andrew Wiles</a>? Oh, he proved <a href="/wiki/Fermat%27s_Last_Theorem" title="Fermat's Last Theorem">Fermat's Last Theorem</a>. <a href="/wiki/Kenneth_Appel" title="Kenneth Appel">Kenneth Appel</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wolfgang_Haken" title="Wolfgang Haken">Wolfgang Haken</a>? They proved the <a href="/wiki/Four_color_theorem" title="Four color theorem">four color theorem</a>. Emmy Noether? OK, better sit down, this is going to take a minute.... The least abstract thing to explain is probably her contribution to physics, but even that requires understanding what a conservation law is and what we mean by a "symmetry", not of a shape, but of a physical law. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241103174600-Dedhert.Jr-20241103005200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:46, 3 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Minor Update: citation needed tags are down to 11. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20241108172800-FARC_section_5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Down to 9. <a href="/wiki/User:Sgubaldo" title="User:Sgubaldo">Sgubaldo</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sgubaldo" title="User talk:Sgubaldo">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Sgubaldo-20241115193200-Sgubaldo-20241108172800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>My guess is that it won't take 9 different references to fill in the 9 requests. An introduction to algebraic invariant theory might satisfy 3 of them, and a work on chain conditions might take care of another 3. Arguably, the sentence <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Much of Noether's work lay in determining...</q> is a summary that doesn't need a blue clicky linky number of its own, and <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">An algebra consists of...</q> could be sourced to any book that defines an algebra over a ring. That leaves finding a secondary source describing what she wrote in Abstrakter Aufbau der Idealtheorie in algebraischen Zahl- und Funktionenkörpern. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241115201000-Sgubaldo-20241115193200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Now down to 5. <a href="/wiki/User:XOR%27easter" title="User:XOR'easter">XOR'easter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:XOR%27easter" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:XOR'easter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-XOR'easter-20241119040600-Sgubaldo-20241115193200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:06, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Isaac_Brock" data-mw-thread-id="h-Isaac_Brock-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20240827022800"><a href="/wiki/Isaac_Brock" title="Isaac Brock">Isaac Brock</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Isaac_Brock/archive2&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Isaac Brock">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Scimitar" title="User talk:Scimitar">Scimitar</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography">WikiProject Biography</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Canada" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Canada">WikiProject Canada</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Channel_Islands" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Channel Islands">WikiProject Channel Islands</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history">WikiProject Military history</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AIsaac_Brock&diff=1236685974&oldid=1216288654">2024-07-26</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Review_section_6" data-mw-thread-id="h-Review_section_6-Isaac_Brock-20240827022800">Review section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Isaac_Brock/archive2&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Review section">edit</a>]</div> I am nominating this featured article for review because there is a lot of uncited text throughout the article and a large "Further reading" section with sources that can be incorporated into the article. The sources used as inline citations are of lower quality; lots of academic literature has been written about Brock, but the article relies on newspaper articles and a source from the 1800s. The lead is too short to summarise all major aspects of the article, but I would not want to expand it until other academic sources are incorporated. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240827022800-Review_section_6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:28, 27 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I agree with the identified issues. I have no immediate plans to fix these issues and think that the article should be delisted. That said, I live relatively close to <a href="/wiki/Brock_University" title="Brock University">Brock University</a> and they're incredibly likely to have the academic sources that would be needed to make this an FA again. I'm not opposed to the idea of going to their library at some point (again, not near future, I'm quite busy). <a href="/wiki/User:Clovermoss" title="User:Clovermoss">Clovermoss🍀</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clovermoss" title="User talk:Clovermoss">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Clovermoss-20240828114600-Z1720-20240827022800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:46, 28 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>Move to FARC: no progress on concerns. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20240907004600-Z1720-20240827022800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Move to FARC issues unaddressed. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20240911030700-Z1720-20240827022800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:07, 11 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="FARC_section_6" data-mw-thread-id="h-FARC_section_6-Isaac_Brock-20240914173600">FARC section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Isaac_Brock/archive2&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: FARC section">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Sourcing. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240914173600-FARC_section_6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li><s>Delist</s> No edits to address concerns. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241003222700-FARC_section_6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:27, 3 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> and @<a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a>, I'm willing to work on this. What will be the expected timeline? <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241009090600-Z1720-20241003222700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:06, 9 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a>: If work is continuing, I won't advocate for a delist. Take as much time as you need. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241009115500-Matarisvan-20241009090600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:55, 9 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a>: I noticed that you have not made any edits to the article the address the concerns. Are you intending to work on this soon? <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241031163600-Z1720-20241009115500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:36, 31 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a>, my laptop had malfunctioned so I wasn't able to work on the article for some time. I expect to start within 1-2 days. I think half a month or 1 month will be needed given the size of the article. Do let me know if that is ok. <a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matarisvan" title="User talk:Matarisvan">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Matarisvan-20241102060300-Z1720-20241031163600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:03, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Matarisvan" title="User:Matarisvan">Matarisvan</a>: I am not an FAR coordinator, but if work is ongoing FARs usually stay open. <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Z1720-20241102130500-Matarisvan-20241102060300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:05, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Mariah_Carey" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mariah_Carey-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20240217000500"><a href="/wiki/Mariah_Carey" title="Mariah Carey">Mariah Carey</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Mariah_Carey/archive3&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Mariah Carey">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a>, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Heartfox" title="User talk:Heartfox">Heartfox</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mariah_Carey" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Mariah Carey">WikiProject Mariah Carey</a>, [diff for talk page notification]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Review_section_7" data-mw-thread-id="h-Review_section_7-Mariah_Carey-20240217000500">Review section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Mariah_Carey/archive3&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Review section">edit</a>]</div> I have <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/requests/Mariah_Carey" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Mariah Carey">nominated the article for TFA</a>, but it was unsuccessful. It stated: "article would not pass FAC in current state. Suggest waiting until 60th birthday (which is a more notable anniversary than 55th) to re-run the article as TFA, after which improvements would have been made." On the talk page, I asked for article issues, but no response was made in the past 2 weeks. Please take your time to review and I would like to address the article's concerns. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240217000500-Review_section_7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 17 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] UPDATE March 23, 2024 This FAR has been reopened and please take your time to re-review this featured article. According to <a href="/wiki/User:Heartfox" title="User:Heartfox">Heartfox</a>, some of the article's sources are not high-quality reliable. <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a>: As was noted in the TFA discussion, if there is to be an FAR for this article, specific concerns have to be identified on the article's talk page as a first step - I don't see that that was done? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240217001000-Review_section_7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:10, 17 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>: There are some concerns in the article, like it does not follow some of the Manual of Style. Featured articles follow all style guidelines. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240217005500-Nikkimaria-20240217001000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:55, 17 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Okay, but were these concerns raised on the article talk page? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240217010000-ScarletViolet-20240217005500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:00, 17 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Nope. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240217041700-Nikkimaria-20240217010000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 17 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>So let's do that first. This will be on hold for the moment to give that a chance to happen. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240217043600-ScarletViolet-20240217041700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a>, I do not see that you have posted to the talk page - are you still intending to move forward with the review process? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240309030600-Nikkimaria-20240217001000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:06, 9 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a>: You say so. This has been reopened. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240323101200-Nikkimaria-20240309030600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:12, 23 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>For the benefit of reviewers, I'm going to copy Heartfox's comment from the talk page here: "Mainly issues with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FACR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FACR">WP:FACR</a> 1c, and probably others would take issue with 1a. There are some websites that aren't high-quality sources for a biography (or really anything) like TheThings, Fame10, Nicki Swift, Daily Mirror, Gossip Cop, Daily Express, etc. Also, the most significant scholarly work on Carey (Why Mariah Carey Matters by Andrew Chan) isn't cited, as are two recent academic book chapters (<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><a href="/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISBN (identifier)">ISBN</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:BookSources/978-1538169063" title="Special:BookSources/978-1538169063">978-1538169063</a> and <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><a href="/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISBN (identifier)">ISBN</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:BookSources/978-1-5013-6825-7" title="Special:BookSources/978-1-5013-6825-7">978-1-5013-6825-7</a>)." <a href="/wiki/User:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User:Extraordinary Writ">Extraordinary Writ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User talk:Extraordinary Writ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Extraordinary_Writ-20240426031000-Nikkimaria-20240217001000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:10, 26 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Move to FARC, it looks like the sourcing definitely needs some work. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20240505233800-Nikkimaria-20240217001000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:38, 5 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="FARC_section_7" data-mw-thread-id="h-FARC_section_7-Mariah_Carey-20240511163600">FARC section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Mariah_Carey/archive3&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: FARC section">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Sourcing. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240511163600-FARC_section_7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:36, 11 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Heartfox" title="User:Heartfox">Heartfox</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a>, do either of you have any interest in trying to address the sourcing issues? If no one wants to take this on, it'll probably be delisted shortly. <a href="/wiki/User:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User:Extraordinary Writ">Extraordinary Writ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User talk:Extraordinary Writ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Extraordinary_Writ-20240713082700-FARC_section_7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Also pinging @<a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a>: <a href="/wiki/User:750h%2B" title="User:750h+">750</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:750h%2B" title="User talk:750h+">h+</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-750h+-20240713114100-Extraordinary_Writ-20240713082700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User:Extraordinary Writ">Extraordinary Writ</a>: From what I can see, per criterion 2c of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FACR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FACR">WP:FACR</a>, the citations should be consistently formatted. The citations are not formatted consistently; some of the publishers are linked, while others are not. Also, there are many <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUPLINK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUPLINK">duplicate links</a> in the article (as I've checked), which is also required by the criterion 2. Featured articles follow all of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">Manual of Style</a>, whereas <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Good article">Good articles</a> only follow five of the MOS guidelines (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section">lead sections</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Layout" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout">layout</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch">words to watch</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Writing_about_fiction" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Writing about fiction">fiction</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Embedded_lists" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Embedded lists">list incorporation</a>). For now, I am planning to rewrite the article and fix the issues. I advise you take <a href="/wiki/Regine_Velasquez" title="Regine Velasquez">Regine Velasquez</a> and <a href="/wiki/Taylor_Swift" title="Taylor Swift">Taylor Swift</a> as two example for articles that follow proper FA guidelines. When you look at the article, it follows all of the standards for featured articles. Hopefully, the Carey article will be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Former_featured_articles#Former_featured_articles_that_have_been_re-promoted" title="Wikipedia:Former featured articles">re-promoted to FA</a> in a couple years from now when it meets all of the FA standards. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">💬</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">📝</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240713121000-Extraordinary_Writ-20240713082700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I'll at least start work on citations within the next 24 hours, though with regards to linking terms, I thought it was common practice to only link the first one to use a term and that subsequent uses of that publication didn't need linking per WP:OVERLINK. From a glance at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mariah_Carey&oldid=1234256043">this version of the page</a>, it would for example mean The New York Times is just linked in ref#5 and Toronto Star in ref#27. <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS" title="Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS">edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SNUGGUMS-20240713131700-ScarletViolet-20240713121000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>UPDATE it looks like all the subpar sources have been removed, and I've linked some more terms. Before I make additional changes with linking (or lack thereof) for publications used more than once (such as multiple MTV News or Entertainment Weekly articles), does anybody know for certain whether it's expected to be a first-mention-only or all-instances ordeal? <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS" title="Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS">edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SNUGGUMS-20240713152800-ScarletViolet-20240713121000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a>: It depends on what you choose. Would suggest that improvements should made in due time, otherwise its status will be gone. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">💬</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">📝</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240714122100-SNUGGUMS-20240713152800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There's no hurry; typically an FAR stays open as long as there are people willing to work on it. <a href="/wiki/User:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User:Extraordinary Writ">Extraordinary Writ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Extraordinary_Writ" title="User talk:Extraordinary Writ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Extraordinary_Writ-20240716031300-ScarletViolet-20240714122100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:13, 16 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>UPDATE: The sections too are very long, unlike the Regine Velasquez and Taylor Swift articles, which are very concise and short. Consider splitting it into subsections in a similar fashion to <a href="/wiki/The_Beatles" title="The Beatles">The Beatles</a> and <a href="/wiki/BTS" title="BTS">BTS</a>. Improving while its FA status is active not enough. Would suggest removing the status first, then once the article meets the FA criteria, then the article can be ready for re-promotion. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">💬</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">📝</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240716010300-Extraordinary_Writ-20240713082700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:03, 16 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Let's not be so hasty; I've cleaned out lots of duplicate links from the article body and Heartfox has helped me in improving citations. How much splitting would be adequate? In the meantime, I also have touched up some of the prose. <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS" title="Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS">edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SNUGGUMS-20240716014900-Extraordinary_Writ-20240713082700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:49, 16 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>UPDATE: I boldly went ahead with some splits and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mariah_Carey&oldid=1234781004">here</a> is what the article looks like afterwards. Hopefully it's a step in the right direction. <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS" title="Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS">edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SNUGGUMS-20240716032200-SNUGGUMS-20240716014900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a>: You're right. Let's think positive, not negative, shall we? I'm also planning to write major changes in the sandbox first before revamping it in the article itself. This time, I would also split Carey's cultural status to its own article: like Cultural impact of Mariah Carey. Title follows other articles like <a href="/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Michael_Jackson" title="Cultural impact of Michael Jackson">Cultural impact of Michael Jackson</a>, <a href="/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Madonna" title="Cultural impact of Madonna">Cultural impact of Madonna</a>, <a href="/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_Taylor_Swift" title="Cultural impact of Taylor Swift">Cultural impact of Taylor Swift</a>, <a href="/wiki/Cultural_impact_of_BTS" title="Cultural impact of BTS">Cultural impact of BTS</a>, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">💬</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">📝</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240716110800-SNUGGUMS-20240716032200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:08, 16 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Not a bad idea at all. Before you implement the sandbox changes, please do show what they look like. <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS" title="Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS">edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SNUGGUMS-20240716115800-ScarletViolet-20240716110800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>The article looks savable to me, and there does not seem to have been any substantial change in Carey's career that would require it to go through a complete rewriting. Can you guys catch me up on what specifically still needs doing here, <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a>?--<a href="/wiki/User:MaranoFan" title="User:MaranoFan">N</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:MaranoFan" title="User talk:MaranoFan">Ø</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-MaranoFan-20240831045800-FARC_section_7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Except for perhaps expanding on legacy (debatable how much should be added), I can't think of much else to do with the page now. <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS" title="Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS">edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SNUGGUMS-20240831174000-MaranoFan-20240831045800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:40, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you. I will shortly do research for any stuff that needs adding there; in the meantime, I feel comfortable putting a keep here.--<a href="/wiki/User:MaranoFan" title="User:MaranoFan">N</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:MaranoFan" title="User talk:MaranoFan">Ø</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-MaranoFan-20240901103600-SNUGGUMS-20240831174000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:36, 1 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sure thing, and I'll also say keep as FA. <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS" title="Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS">edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SNUGGUMS-20240901134400-MaranoFan-20240901103600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:44, 1 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:MaranoFan" title="User:MaranoFan">MaranoFan</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a>: Sorry about not being able to improve the article. I was busy working on other articles, but would agree with your decisions to keep. <a href="/wiki/User:ScarletViolet" title="User:ScarletViolet">ScarletViolet</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:ScarletViolet" title="User talk:ScarletViolet">t</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet" title="Special:Contributions/ScarletViolet">c</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-ScarletViolet-20240913092000-SNUGGUMS-20240901134400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:20, 13 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a>: Have your sourcing concerns been addressed? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240914174300-FARC_section_7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:43, 14 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a>: ? <a href="/wiki/User:750h%2B" title="User:750h+">750</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:750h%2B" title="User talk:750h+">h+</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-750h+-20241013074700-Nikkimaria-20240914174300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:47, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Broadway World should be removed based on its <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RSP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RSP">WP:RSP</a> entry. I don't know that " "AFTER TONIGHT". Song of the Week. August 15, 2004. Archived from the original on April 29, 2023. Retrieved April 29, 2023." is a high-quality RS. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_314#Look_to_the_Stars" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 314">Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_314#Look_to_the_Stars</a> does not reflect well on "Look to the Stars" being a high-quality RS. Nobody seems to have addressed why the recent academic work noted by <a href="/wiki/User:Heartfox" title="User:Heartfox">Heartfox</a> is not being used. Given that the article is quite long and a very brief glance at a source deeper <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mariah_Carey&diff=1251023025&oldid=1250928125">led to me removing</a> material about Mariah Carey-themed products sourced only to product pages/announcements themselves, I think this article should be reviewed by someone who isn't a Mariah Carey fan before this is closed. I have neither the time nor the interest to be the person to do a line-by-line review of this thing. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20241013231200-750h+-20241013074700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>All three sources you mentioned have been taken out. As for academic work, I personally am not sure which text should be attributed to those that isn't already, but am open to hearing others' thoughts. <a href="/wiki/User:SNUGGUMS" title="User:SNUGGUMS">SNUGGUMS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SNUGGUMS" title="User talk:SNUGGUMS">talk</a> / <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS" title="Special:Contributions/SNUGGUMS">edits</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SNUGGUMS-20241014162300-Hog_Farm-20241013231200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:23, 14 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Requesting the whole book at Resource Exchange isn't feasible so page numbers or at least which topics from the new academic work need to be added is required information. Without that, the mere existence of the new work is non-actionable and thus not alone grounds for delisting. No problems with getting some more reviews on this, though.--<a href="/wiki/User:MaranoFan" title="User:MaranoFan">N</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:MaranoFan" title="User talk:MaranoFan">Ø</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-MaranoFan-20241017201100-Hog_Farm-20241013231200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li> <li>Update: The recent academic works are now cited within the article. The Chan book does get overly into detail into individual songs but that is best suited for the Cultural Impact, Public Image, or individual song and album articles. I have pulled his opinions for the relevant sections of this article where his personal opinions are relevant.--<a href="/wiki/User:MaranoFan" title="User:MaranoFan">N</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:MaranoFan" title="User talk:MaranoFan">Ø</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-MaranoFan-20241018141700-Hog_Farm-20241013231200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> I am a bit doubtful if indefinitely keeping this open is going to attract the review of a non-Carey fan. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a>, by any chance do you have the time and interest to review it now? As it will probably receive increased attention during Christmas, it would be neat if the article's status was settled by then.--<a href="/wiki/User:MaranoFan" title="User:MaranoFan">N</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:MaranoFan" title="User talk:MaranoFan">Ø</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-MaranoFan-20241123234400-FARC_section_7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 23 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Real life is very hectic for me. I would be willing to read through this but it would have to be the week after Thanksgiving at the earliest. <a href="/wiki/User:Hog_Farm" title="User:Hog Farm">Hog Farm</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hog_Farm" title="User talk:Hog Farm">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Hog_Farm-20241124004200-MaranoFan-20241123234400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:42, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Concerto_delle_donne" data-mw-thread-id="h-Concerto_delle_donne-Featured_article_removal_candidates-20230520230400"><a href="/wiki/Concerto_delle_donne" title="Concerto delle donne">Concerto delle donne</a></h3>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Concerto_delle_donne/archive1&action=edit&section=T-1" title="Edit section: Concerto delle donne">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Notified: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:SandyGeorgia/MMStargets&oldid=1156037571">Mass Message Send notifications</a>, talk page notice <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Concerto_delle_donne&oldid=1138646096#WP:URFA/2020">2023-02-10</a> </dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Review_section_8" data-mw-thread-id="h-Review_section_8-Concerto_delle_donne-20230520230400">Review section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Concerto_delle_donne/archive1&action=edit&section=T-2" title="Edit section: Review section">edit</a>]</div> This 2006 FA was nominated by an editor who has made one Wikipedia edit since 2013, and has not edited the article since 2007. The article has no main watchers and has not been maintained to standard. The article was notified last year for original research, over-reliance on single sources, MOS issues, and citations needed. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400-Review_section_8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:04, 20 May 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Did some urgent fixes and will park <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.it/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22concerto+delle+donne%22&btnG=">these</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.it/scholar?cites=11964034172113964124&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=0,5&hl=de">lists</a> of sources to use here. It seems like Newcomb 1980 is available at a local library. That's for sourcing & completeness; someone more adept that me will need to handle MOS problems. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230522113500-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:35, 22 May 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Did some expansion. Newcomb 1980 seems to be the most comprehensive source on the group, so I can see why he would be the main source. Stras 2018 seems to be a bit more generally discussing the music scene in Ferrara, rather than a detailed analysis of the concerto delle donne. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230524093600-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230522113500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:36, 24 May 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a>, starting to try to catch up ... where does this stand; do you think the article meets comprehensiveness? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20230603114500-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230524093600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:45, 3 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think it passes on comprehensiveness, keeping in mind however that I only considered sources that show up on Google Scholar. There are some bits in the page source that need further thought. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230603121500-SandyGeorgia-20230603114500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:15, 3 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The additions look great, thanks Jo-Jo! I recall working on this for a bit but stepping back due to time commitments. Hopefully I can look throughout it more next week... am thinking that the biggest issues right now are source References formatting and the rather poor lead. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230603214200-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230603121500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 3 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a> are you going to be able to look at this, or should we be moving to FARC? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20230616000600-Aza24-20230603214200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:06, 16 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes I think so. Give me till the end of the weekend—if I don't get to it by then we can move it FARC. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230616063300-SandyGeorgia-20230616000600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:33, 16 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Looking at this today – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230622221700-Aza24-20230616063300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:17, 22 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Looked at it a bit today. I still have more cleanup to do, but at the moment these are the issues I see remaining (this list is for my own personal use as well)</dd></dl> <ul><li>Needs many more reference to Stras</li> <li><s>A few missing citations still (one is marked), about cross dressing, the ballet etc.</s></li> <li><s>Probably need a collage pic of the Duke and Duchess in the beginning of history</s></li> <li>Emphasis on Luzzaschi and near absence of anyone else may be undue, I'm not sure</li> <li><s>Note b needs to be expanded to include the similar contradiction from Pendle and Grove</s></li> <li>Music section is a bit of a mess; badly organized and laid out. The composers</li> <li>Really needs an image of sheet music (which I can engrave and then upload)</li> <li>I don't think Yarris is a "high quality source"</li> <li><s>Similar doubts about Kuhn</s> <ul><li><s>Looked at this further and believe its high quality enough – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230710142300-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:23, 10 July 2023 (UTC)</a></s>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul></li> <li>There is a great long-ish quote from <a href="/wiki/Vincenzo_Giustiniani" title="Vincenzo Giustiniani">Vincenzo Giustiniani</a> (in Burkholder) which could go in quote box for the Influence section</li> <li>Lead needs a complete rewrite, including the names of important composers and singers</li> <li>Minor clean up matters regarding linking first mentions (& overlinking) and giving translations to Italian terms</li> <li>Overall, I think there are two main issues: <ul><li>Rewrite of the music section</li> <li>I think the whole article will have to be recontextualized a little. Too much emphasis on the Ferrera court and practically none in comparison for the equivalent ensembles at Mantua, Florence, etc. Britannica's article is (surprisingly) a good model in this regard <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230623063000-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:30, 23 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd>It seems like the Wikipedia Library is down, so I can't do anything about Stras or the other concerti or the citation tag at the moment. I looked for an image of Duke and Duchess, but apparently there are only separate images. It seems like Monteverdi is more commonly mentioned than Luzzaschi in sources, though. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230623092500-Aza24-20230623063000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:25, 23 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No worries! I have a PDF of Stras (which I can send?—email me if so) that I'm planning to add from. For the Duke/Duchess I meant a collage (double) image, which I've just added. – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230623213200-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230623092500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 23 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Can't do anything before tomorrow, sorry. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230624193100-Aza24-20230623213200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:31, 24 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Began to work a bit with Stras. I am going to warn folks that since musicology is very far from my areas of knowledge/interest, I am perhaps not the person to ask for a proper due weight evaluation. I got as far as p.167 in Stras. I've asked at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RX">WP:RX</a> for one source for the crossdressing thing. Does anyone have access to <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.ch/books?hl=de&lr=&id=W5VQDwAAQBAJ">this book</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230625072800-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230624193100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:28, 25 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I just found a PDF. If you email me I can send it to you. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230626201200-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230625072800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:12, 26 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Are you up for rewriting the music section? This is a topic on which I understand essentially nothing. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230710173300-Aza24-20230626201200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 10 July 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes I think so. Was looking into what that would consist of earlier – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230710203800-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20230710173300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:38, 10 July 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a> where does this stand? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20230728025000-Aza24-20230710203800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:50, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Should hopefully be able to work on it this week. Back from vacation now. I think its definitely trending towards a positive direction <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230801053500-SandyGeorgia-20230728025000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:35, 1 August 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20230811175500-Aza24-20230801053500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 11 August 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Uhhhhhhh, sorry I am getting v distracted. I assure you all this is still on my radar <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230817054700-SandyGeorgia-20230811175500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:47, 17 August 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a>: ? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20230902040100-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:01, 2 September 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>At work in my sandbox – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20230902040300-Nikkimaria-20230902040100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:03, 2 September 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20231007032200-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:22, 7 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Need the music and lead sections rewritten, seems like. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231014141900-Nikkimaria-20231007032200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:19, 14 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a> could we get this one wrapped up soon? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231017193400-Nikkimaria-20231007032200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:34, 17 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Going by the notice on their userpage, they won't be able to for a month. <a href="/wiki/User:AirshipJungleman29" title="User:AirshipJungleman29">~~ AirshipJungleman29</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AirshipJungleman29" title="User talk:AirshipJungleman29">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-AirshipJungleman29-20231021224500-SandyGeorgia-20231017193400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>Does anyone know about anyone else who is familiar with these music topics? <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231108185900-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:59, 8 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Not anyone well versed with FAR; <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a> perhaps we should consider moving on here ? It's six months now ... <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231108192100-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231108185900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:21, 8 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:SchroCat" title="User:SchroCat">SchroCat</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Ssilvers" title="User:Ssilvers">Ssilvers</a>: might you suggest an editor who can take this on? <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231108192400-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231108185900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sorry, no idea. Are there any musicians on WP who have researched different madrigal styles? You could ask at the classical music project. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Ssilvers" title="User:Ssilvers">Ssilvers</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ssilvers" title="User talk:Ssilvers">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Ssilvers-20231108193800-SandyGeorgia-20231108192400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:38, 8 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>They <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:SandyGeorgia/MMStargets&oldid=1156037571">were notified</a>; only Aza24 came forward. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231108194300-Ssilvers-20231108193800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:43, 8 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Tim_riley" title="User:Tim riley">Tim riley</a> would be a possible, except he's on something of a break at the moment. I'll drop him a line to see if he has either the knowledge or inclination. - <a href="/wiki/User:SchroCat" title="User:SchroCat">SchroCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SchroCat" title="User talk:SchroCat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SchroCat-20231108200800-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231108185900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:08, 8 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you so much; there is <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24/sandbox" title="User:Aza24/sandbox">User:Aza24/sandbox</a> to contemplate. <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SandyGeorgia-20231108201200-SchroCat-20231108200800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:12, 8 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li>Unfortunately not one for Tim. As he puts it, "music started with Bach, and anything earlier doesn't figure". - <a href="/wiki/User:SchroCat" title="User:SchroCat">SchroCat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SchroCat" title="User talk:SchroCat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-SchroCat-20231109203300-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I guess in that case we should wait until Aza24 is more active. If nothing's happening still, we should proceed to FARC. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231110084000-SchroCat-20231109203300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a>: Are you still intending to work on this? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20231125051200-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231110084000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:12, 25 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Will have another go in the coming days – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20231129230200-Nikkimaria-20231125051200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:02, 29 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Looks like a rewrite is underway at <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24/sandbox" title="User:Aza24/sandbox">User:Aza24/sandbox</a>. @<a class="mw-selflink selflink">FAR coordinators</a>: <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria"> </a><a href="/wiki/User:Casliber" title="User:Casliber"> </a><a href="/wiki/User:DrKay" title="User:DrKay"> </a> I wonder if we can collapse the aforementioned bullet points about who is available, for better readability. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231210092000-Aza24-20231129230200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:20, 10 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Suggest moving to talk. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20231210140100-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231210092000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20231230042900-SandyGeorgia-20230520230400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:29, 30 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Asked Aza about the sandbox. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20231230072200-Nikkimaria-20231230042900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:22, 30 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> @<a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a>:? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240120195200-Review_section_8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:52, 20 January 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="FARC_section_8" data-mw-thread-id="h-FARC_section_8-Concerto_delle_donne-20240203041500">FARC section</h4>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/Concerto_delle_donne/archive1&action=edit&section=T-3" title="Edit section: FARC section">edit</a>]</div> <dl><dd>Stalled. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240203041500-FARC_section_8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:15, 3 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've set aside some time next weekend to work on it. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240204231900-Nikkimaria-20240203041500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:19, 4 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Almost done with refiguring the music section in my sandbox <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240218185000-Nikkimaria-20240203041500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:50, 18 February 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240309042400-FARC_section_8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 9 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>At work again this weekend <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240310165400-Nikkimaria-20240309042400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 10 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Music section has been rewritten/reorganized; new paragraph added to the new "background section". At this point, the Roster and duties, as well as influence sections just need some touch ups—though more so on the former section. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240310191300-Aza24-20240310165400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've given a go at rewriting the lead. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240310195300-Aza24-20240310191300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 10 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> @<a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a>, I think I've given all I can to this article. The topic interest me, but I find too distracted by other WP commitments.</dd> <dd>I think the article is fine where it stands now, but am happy to hear the input of any others. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240314060900-Aza24-20240310195300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:09, 14 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Is Yarris still a problem? <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20240314144700-Aza24-20240314060900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think Yarris is okay. Most of her citations are used in addition to others, so if other reviewers disagree, they could be fairly painlessly removed. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240314183700-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20240314144700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:37, 14 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don't see any obvious issue, but this is a topic I am not very familiar with. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20240315083300-Aza24-20240314183700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 15 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>I decided to reach out to Laurie Stras, an expert on this topic, and she has kindly agreed to give feedback via email about possible improvements/errors. She said she's on vacation at the moment, but has promised to look soon. Looks like this should all be wrapping up soon. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240320071400-FARC_section_8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:14, 20 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>She pointed out some factual mistakes, which I've now fixed. She also said that although the article is heavily influenced by somewhat older scholarship (Newcomb 1980), it is generally suitable for a general encyclopedia. She expressed some hesitancy over citing Yarris, which I previously found questionable. I'm thinking all of the Yarris refs need to be replaced. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240409065800-Aza24-20240320071400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:58, 9 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>It seems like many of the claims sourced to Yarris can be found in other sources, going by Google Scholar. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20240409084700-Aza24-20240409065800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:47, 9 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20240504034500-FARC_section_8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:45, 4 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yeah... I've made a targeted list of goals to wrap this up. Will give it one more shot. <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240810184900-Nikkimaria-20240504034500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:49, 10 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a>: have you finished what you wanted to do with this yet. <a href="/wiki/User:Casliber" title="User:Casliber">Cas Liber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Casliber" title="User talk:Casliber">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Casliber" title="Special:Contributions/Casliber">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Casliber-20240827013600-Aza24-20240810184900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:36, 27 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sorry no, not yet <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240907192100-Casliber-20240827013600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:21, 7 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>Update: I've removed all of the Yarris refs, since it's not a high quality source—it looks like they were mostly in addition to other sources, so the content did not change much. I've ordered hardcopies of both Stras and Newcomb (the two major surveys) from the library; I have digital copies but I think to finish this properly I'm going to need the physical versions. – <a href="/wiki/User:Aza24" title="User:Aza24">Aza24</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aza24" title="User talk:Aza24"> (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Aza24-20240911031300-FARC_section_8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:13, 11 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RX" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RX">WP:RX</a> might help with some of the physical versions. <a href="/wiki/User:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User:Jo-Jo Eumerus">Jo-Jo Eumerus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jo-Jo_Eumerus" title="User talk:Jo-Jo Eumerus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Jo-Jo_Eumerus-20240911084200-Aza24-20240911031300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:42, 11 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li> <li>Could we get an update on status here? <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_review#c-Nikkimaria-20241102150900-FARC_section_8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:09, 2 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review&oldid=1259233785">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_review&oldid=1259233785</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Category</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_featured_content" title="Category:Wikipedia featured content">Wikipedia featured content</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden category: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Non-talk_pages_with_subpages_that_are_automatically_signed" title="Category:Non-talk pages with subpages that are automatically signed">Non-talk pages with subpages that are automatically signed</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 24 November 2024, at 02:41 (UTC).</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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