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class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Involved_parties" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Involved_parties"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.1</span> <span>Involved parties</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Involved_parties-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Requests_for_comment" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Requests_for_comment"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1.2</span> <span>Requests for comment</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Requests_for_comment-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Preliminary_statements" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Preliminary_statements"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Preliminary statements</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Preliminary_statements-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Preliminary statements subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Preliminary_statements-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Mark_Arsten"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.1</span> <span>Statement by Mark Arsten</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Ironholds" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Ironholds"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.2</span> <span>Statement by Ironholds</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Ironholds-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2.3</span> <span>Statement by Kiefer.Wolfowitz</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Preliminary_decision" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Preliminary_decision"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Preliminary decision</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">30 comments</span> <button aria-controls="toc-Preliminary_decision-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Preliminary decision subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Preliminary_decision-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Clerk_notes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Clerk_notes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.1</span> <span>Clerk notes</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Clerk_notes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matter_<5/4/2/0>" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matter_<5/4/2/0>"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.2</span> <span>Offsite comments and personal attacks: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <5/4/2/0></span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matter_<5/4/2/0>-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Temporary_injunction_(none)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Temporary_injunction_(none)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.3</span> <span>Temporary injunction (none)</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Temporary_injunction_(none)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Final_decision" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Final_decision"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Final decision</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-Final_decision-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Final decision subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Final_decision-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Principles" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Principles"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1</span> <span>Principles</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Principles-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Purpose_of_Wikipedia" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Purpose_of_Wikipedia"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.1</span> <span>Purpose of Wikipedia</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Purpose_of_Wikipedia-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Casting_aspersions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Casting_aspersions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.2</span> <span>Casting aspersions</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Casting_aspersions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Allegations_that_an_editor_may_be_violating_the_policy_on_the_protection_of_children" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Allegations_that_an_editor_may_be_violating_the_policy_on_the_protection_of_children"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.3</span> <span>Allegations that an editor may be violating the policy on the protection of children</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Allegations_that_an_editor_may_be_violating_the_policy_on_the_protection_of_children-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Etiquette" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Etiquette"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.4</span> <span>Etiquette</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Etiquette-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Conduct_on_arbitration_pages" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Conduct_on_arbitration_pages"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.5</span> <span>Conduct on arbitration pages</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Conduct_on_arbitration_pages-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.6</span> <span>Wikipedia is not a battleground</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Offensive_commentary" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Offensive_commentary"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.1.7</span> <span>Offensive commentary</span> 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id="toc-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ironholds" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ironholds"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.2.3</span> <span>Ironholds</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Ironholds-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Remedies" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Remedies"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3</span> <span>Remedies</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Remedies-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Ironholds_desysopped" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ironholds_desysopped"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3.1</span> <span>Ironholds desysopped</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Ironholds_desysopped-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ironholds_admonished" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ironholds_admonished"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3.2</span> <span>Ironholds admonished</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Ironholds_admonished-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Kiefer.Wolfowitz_banned" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-3"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Kiefer.Wolfowitz_banned"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.3.3</span> <span>Kiefer.Wolfowitz banned</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Kiefer.Wolfowitz_banned-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Enforcement" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Enforcement"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4.4</span> <span>Enforcement</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Enforcement-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li 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data-mw-thread-id="h--2013-07-12T09:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h--2013-07-12T09:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="h--2013-07-12T09:08:00.000Z"></span></span><div class="casenav" style="background-color: var(--background-color-warning-subtle, #fef6e7); color: var(--color-base, #202122); border:1px solid #aaa; margin-bottom:0.5em; font-size: 95%; text-align: center; padding: 0.5em"> <a class="mw-selflink selflink"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-12T09:08:00.000Z"></span>Main case page</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds">Talk</a>)</small> — <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Evidence" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Evidence">Evidence</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Evidence" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Evidence">Talk</a>)</small> — <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Workshop" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Workshop">Workshop</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Workshop" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Workshop">Talk</a>)</small> — <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Proposed_decision" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Proposed decision">Proposed decision</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Proposed_decision" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Proposed decision">Talk</a>)</small><p class="mw-empty-elt"></p><p><b>Case clerk</b>: <a href="/wiki/User:Callanecc" title="User:Callanecc">Callanecc</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Callanecc" title="User talk:Callanecc">Talk</a>)</small> <b>Drafting arbitrators</b>: <a href="/wiki/User:Salvio_giuliano" title="User:Salvio giuliano">Salvio giuliano</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Salvio_giuliano" title="User talk:Salvio giuliano">Talk</a>)</small> & <a href="/wiki/User:Roger_Davies" title="User:Roger Davies">Roger Davies</a> <small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Roger_Davies" title="User talk:Roger Davies">Talk</a>)</small></p></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline 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abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:ArbCom_sidebar" title="Template:ArbCom sidebar"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:ArbCom_sidebar" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:ArbCom sidebar"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:ArbCom_sidebar" title="Special:EditPage/Template:ArbCom sidebar"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <p><big><b>Case Opened</b> on 13:32, 12 July 2013 (UTC)</big> </p><p><big><b>Case Closed</b> on 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</big> </p> <div style="text-align: right;"><small><span style="background-color: White">Watchlist all case pages: <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds&action=watch"><b>1</b></a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Evidence&action=watch"><b>2</b></a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Workshop&action=watch"><b>3</b></a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Proposed_decision&action=watch"><b>4</b></a></span></span></small></div> <p>Please do not edit this page unless you are an Arbitrator or Clerk, or are making yourself a party to this case. Statements on this page are copies of the statements submitted in the original <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case">request</a> to arbitrate this dispute, and serve as verbatim copies; as such, they should never be changed. (In the case of lengthy statements, an excerpt only may be given here, in which case the full copy will be added to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case">talk page</a>—where any statements by uninvolved editors during the Requests phase will also be saved.) Any evidence you wish to provide to the Arbitrators should be added to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Evidence" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Evidence">/Evidence</a> subpage. </p><p>Arbitrators, the parties, and other editors may suggest proposed principles, findings, and remedies at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Workshop" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Workshop">/Workshop</a>. That page may also be used for general comments on the evidence. Arbitrators will then vote on a final decision in the case at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Proposed_decision" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Proposed decision">/Proposed decision</a>. </p><p>Once the case is closed, editors may add to the <a href="#Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions">#Log of blocks, bans, and restrictions</a> as needed, but the other content of this page should not be edited. Please raise any questions about this decision at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment</a>, any general questions at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee">Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee</a>, and report violations of remedies to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement</a>. </p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-content" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/40px-Ambox_important.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/60px-Ambox_important.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/80px-Ambox_important.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="40" data-file-height="40"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>→ Important notes for all contributors to this case</b> <p>This case is contentious and has the ability to devolve very quickly. So, this is a heads-up on the procedures that have been adopted. </p><p>First off, the clerks have been instructed to be <b>very</b> proactive in removing any inappropriate comments. These include: </p> <dl><dd>a. meta-discussions about policy</dd> <dd>b. any allegation unsupported by evidence and</dd> <dd>c. any allegation (whether supported or unsupported) against non-parties.</dd></dl> <p>Furthermore, the case will use a "single warning" system: clerks are authorised to issue an only warning to any editor who posts inappropriate comments; if the warning is not heeded, the editor may either be restricted from participating in this case or be blocked at the clerk's discretion. This applies to everyone, which includes the parties, involved onlookers, semi-involved onlookers, and people who wander in randomly (whether truly random or not). </p><p>Finally, to prevent "drive-by" attacks and attempts to devolve this case, the case pages will be semi-protected and additional scrutiny will be paid to accounts that haven't participated in this dispute beforehand. If a new editor or an IP editor genuinely has something that needs to be said, they may ask a clerk to post it on their behalf. </p> For the Committee, <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Salvio_giuliano" title="User:Salvio giuliano">Salvio</a></b></span> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Salvio_giuliano" title="User talk:Salvio giuliano"><sup>Let's talk about it!</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-12T09:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:08, 12 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-12T09:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-12T09:08:00.000Z"></span></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Case_information" data-mw-thread-id="h-Case_information"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Case_information"></span>Case information<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Case_information"></span></h2></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Involved_parties" data-mw-thread-id="h-Involved_parties-Case_information"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Involved_parties-Case_information"></span>Involved parties<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Involved_parties-Case_information"></span></h3></div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Mark_Arsten" title="User:Mark Arsten">Mark Arsten</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mark_Arsten" title="User talk:Mark Arsten">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mark_Arsten" title="Special:Contributions/Mark Arsten">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/block/Mark_Arsten" title="Special:Log/block/Mark Arsten">blocks</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/protect/Mark_Arsten" title="Special:Log/protect/Mark Arsten">protections</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/delete/Mark_Arsten" title="Special:Log/delete/Mark Arsten">deletions</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/Mark_Arsten" title="Special:Log/move/Mark Arsten">page moves</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/rights/Mark_Arsten" title="Special:Log/rights/Mark Arsten">rights</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Mark_Arsten" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Mark Arsten">RfA</a>)</span>, <i>filing party</i></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz">Kiefer.Wolfowitz</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="Special:Contributions/Kiefer.Wolfowitz">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletedContributions/Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="Special:DeletedContributions/Kiefer.Wolfowitz">deleted contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="Special:Log/Kiefer.Wolfowitz">logs</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AAbuseLog&wpSearchUser=Kiefer.Wolfowitz">filter log</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Block/Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="Special:Block/Kiefer.Wolfowitz">block user</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog%2Fblock&page=User%3AKiefer.Wolfowitz">block log</a>)</span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ironholds" title="Special:Contributions/Ironholds">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/block/Ironholds" title="Special:Log/block/Ironholds">blocks</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/protect/Ironholds" title="Special:Log/protect/Ironholds">protections</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/delete/Ironholds" title="Special:Log/delete/Ironholds">deletions</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/move/Ironholds" title="Special:Log/move/Ironholds">page moves</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/rights/Ironholds" title="Special:Log/rights/Ironholds">rights</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Ironholds" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Ironholds">RfA</a>)</span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Requests_for_comment" data-mw-thread-id="h-Requests_for_comment-Case_information"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Requests_for_comment-Case_information"></span>Requests for comment<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Requests_for_comment-Case_information"></span></h3></div> <ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz&oldid=562982285#Come_on_Baby.2C_Light_My_Fire.21">Discussion on User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz</a></li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Newyorkbrad&oldid=562993351#WMF_employee_joking_about_burning_a_wikipedia_editor_alive">Discussion on User talk:Newyorkbrad</a></li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kww&oldid=562974078#Kiefer">Discussion on User talk:Kww</a></li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ironholds&oldid=562980829#Kiefer_Wolfowitz">Discussion on User talk:Ironholds</a></li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AIRC_channels%2Fwikipedia-en-admins&diff=180255135&oldid=180251595">Discussion on Wikipedia talk by Jimbo Wales</a>.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Kiefer.Wolfowitz">Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Kiefer.Wolfowitz</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Preliminary_statements" data-mw-thread-id="h-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span>Preliminary statements<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Mark_Arsten" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-06T00:36:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-06T00:36:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Mark Arsten<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-06T00:36:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mark_Arsten-2013-07-06T00:36:00.000Z-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten"></span>I believe that arbitration is needed in this situation because a dispute between two editors has become unmanageable by the community and is complicated by off-site and revision deleted evidence. <a href="/wiki/User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz">Kiefer.Wolfowitz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="Special:Contributions/Kiefer.Wolfowitz">contribs</a>) and <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ironholds" title="Special:Contributions/Ironholds">contribs</a>) have made several comments about each other on off-wiki forums, and this dispute has spilled over onto Wikipedia, although some of it has been revision deleted. Some of these comments could be seen as personal attacks make reference to violence. </p><p>To my knowledge, the dispute between Ironholds and Kiefer has its origin in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive250#Kiefer.Wolfowitz_RfA_topic_ban.2Frestriction">this thread</a>, after Ironholds endorsed sanctions against Keifer in an unrelated matter. Following this interchange, Kiefer posted critical remarks about Ironholds on an off-wiki discussion forum. In response, <a href="/wiki/User:Geni" title="User:Geni">Geni</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Geni" title="User talk:Geni">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Geni" title="Special:Contributions/Geni">contribs</a>) blocked Kiefer for personal attacks. This block was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=560751183#Unblocked">overturned with community consensus</a> because the comments took place off-wiki. Two weeks later, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Newyorkbrad&diff=562893941&oldid=562885541">a concern was raised</a> on a third party's user talk page about comments that Ironholds apparently made about Kiefer on a Wikipedia IRC channel (I haven't verified their authenticity, but I don't think it has been questioned). Ironholds' comments, while apparently a joke, could be seen as expressing a desire for violence. Kiefer <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Newyorkbrad&diff=562900739&oldid=562896103">made a comment</a> on the talk page that also could be seen as a threat against Ironholds. This comment was quickly revision deleted. Kiefer was then blocked by <a href="/wiki/User:Kww" title="User:Kww">Kww</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kww" title="User talk:Kww">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kww" title="Special:Contributions/Kww">contribs</a>) for three months. About 13 hours later <a href="/wiki/User:Fram" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fram">Fram</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fram" title="User talk:Fram">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Fram" title="Special:Contributions/Fram">contribs</a>) unblocked him, explaining the action by noting that Kiefer was provoked by an off-wiki comment. Fram also <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ironholds&diff=562972360&oldid=562879110">announced his intent</a> to begin blocking for IRC personal attacks in the future. </p><p>As the admin actions cited above show, the community has difficulty agreeing on how to respond here. Attempts have been made, but the unusual nature of the situation has complicated them. This is a difficult situation for the community to handle because off-wiki evidence plays a large role. Although off-wiki actions are generally not sanctionable by themselves, in this case they have spilled over on-wiki and are thus may be relevant. I believe that Arbcom should take this case because more noticeboard discussions an additional RFC/U have little chance of solving the problem, which will likely continue to boil over. Given the somewhat disturbing nature of the recent comments, I think this is a dispute that needs to be solved soon. </p><p>@Ironholds: I didn't emphasize it in my statement, but it could be argued that there was wheel warring with Geni's block of Kiefer on June 20th. <a href="/wiki/User:Mark_Arsten" title="User:Mark Arsten">Mark Arsten</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mark_Arsten" title="User talk:Mark Arsten">talk</a>) 00:36, 6 July 2013 (UTC) @Newyorkbrad: I read your comments on your talk page and found them very wise. My concern is that the conflicts fueled by off-wiki comments are boiling over on-wiki, and it's hard to know where to draw the line. After Kiefer was blocked for his now-revdeleted comment on your talk page, he was unblocked due to off-wiki evidence. (The evidence suggested that he was provoked.) I agree that we should generally ignore other websites, but I think this is a bit of a grey area. In some cases exculpatory evidence is present off-wiki (as Fram took into account), but if we make administrative decisions based on that evidence, how can we ignore incriminating evidence from the same forums when it relates to on-wiki conduct, as well? <a href="/wiki/User:Mark_Arsten" title="User:Mark Arsten">Mark Arsten</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mark_Arsten" title="User talk:Mark Arsten">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Mark_Arsten-2013-07-06T00:36:00.000Z-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mark_Arsten-2013-07-06T00:36:00.000Z-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mark_Arsten-2013-07-06T00:36:00.000Z-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mark_Arsten-2013-07-07T02:19:00.000Z-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten"></span>@Risker: In retrospect, my request may be poorly titled--I'm not seeking a case to deal with off-wiki conduct. I think that there have been enough problematic interactions here to justify a case confined to the on-wiki behavior of the parties. I would expect that Arbcom will limit their investigation to comments and actions that occurred on Wikipedia, and I don't think it's reasonable to ask you to investigate everyone's post history in a variety of chat rooms and internet forums. It would also be helpful, though, to get the committee's input about whether the community should consider the role of off-site "baiting" when evaluating sanctions. <a href="/wiki/User:Mark_Arsten" title="User:Mark Arsten">Mark Arsten</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mark_Arsten" title="User talk:Mark Arsten">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Mark_Arsten-2013-07-07T02:19:00.000Z-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:19, 7 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mark_Arsten-2013-07-07T02:19:00.000Z-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mark_Arsten-2013-07-07T02:19:00.000Z-Statement_by_Mark_Arsten"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Ironholds" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Ironholds-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Ironholds-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Ironholds<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Ironholds-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ironholds"></span>I haven't, to my knowledge, been a party to one of these before (I think there was one situation in which I was asked to provide a statement for....totally bemusing reasons. Anyway.) so apologies if I'm doing this wrong somehow. </p><p>What we have here is, frankly, a case of two users who simply don't get on. Nothing more, nothing less. What alters the situation is the presence of off-wiki venues of discussion. From my perspective, in response to a disagreement on Wikipedia, Kiefer went to Wikipediocracy and made some (frankly, loathsome) personal comments about me - I'm not going to link them, since anyone wanting to look can find them easily enough. Somewhat vexed by these - as is, I think, understandable, if you've seen them - I made a rather morbid and snarky joke in a private channel on IRC. Anyone who has dealt with me regularly will know that my sense of humour is somewhat dark and dry; my mistake was not realising at the time that, of course, there are many individuals who <i>don't</i> deal with me regularly. A second mistake was arguably being dumb enough to assume that a prohibition on public logging was something people with the trust of the community would follow. Ultimately the joke was inappropriate, on its face, and I will do my best to avoid letting my frustrations spill over, even in off-wiki venues. </p><p>In response to my response to Kiefer's commentary, Kiefer struck out, this time on-wiki, for which he was blocked. Shortly after he was unblocked, with a rationale that basically stated that (1) my off-wiki statements fell under the gaze of the administrators, and (2) since his statements were reactionary they were (while inadvisable) ultimately provoked; he should behave better in future, but not be blocked. This is rather frustrating given that precisely the same situation was true in reverse; Kiefer made unpleasant off-wiki comments about me, and I reacted. The difference was that my statements were taken into account and his weren't. </p><p>I have no idea if this is something the Arbitration Committee has any business sticking their noses in - I haven't reviewed arbcom policy for quite some time - or, given the nest of snakes that one of the off-wiki venues constitutes, whether it's even something they <i>want</i> to stick their noses in. Ultimately, however, this is a problem of ambiguity in the answers to two questions: </p> <ol><li>Is conduct in off-wiki venues seen as something that can be sanctioned on-wiki, uniformly, regardless of what that off-wiki location is?</li> <li>If so, is it inappropriate in and of itself, or stacked on to other actions, as the existing personal attacks policy would suggest?</li></ol> <p>Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ironholds" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 5 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ironholds"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Statement_by_Ironholds"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span>@PumpkinSky, some corrections: (1) there was no wheel warring involved, to my knowledge, and (2) Kiefer is not an admin. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 5 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T00:39:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span>@Salvio: the argument of "you're a WMF employee, you should know better" is something I find troubling. Staffers should certainly be held to standards of decorum, in their role as staff and <i>by</i> staff. The joke was made in my personal capacity (I do not maintain membership of that channel in my role as a staffer). Were it made in my professional capacity, that would be a matter for HR, not for the arbitration committee, and it seems an inappropriate thing for an arbitrator to be factoring in. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T00:39:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:39, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T00:39:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T00:39:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T01:06:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span>@AGK no, -en-admins. I'm not dumb enough to vent frustrations in -en ;p. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T01:06:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:06, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T01:06:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T01:06:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T15:45:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span>@Wewhalt, I was not attempting to further any "war", with or without admin privileges. The -en-admins channel is commonly a place where people vent their frustrations; this is not because it is sysop-centric, but because it is private. The same joke could have been made in any other channel. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T15:45:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:45, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T15:45:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2013-07-06T15:45:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-08T10:21:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span>@Salvio: I'm sorry my apology above wasn't clear enough, so let me be clear; I accept, wholeheartedly, that the joke was an inappropriate one for any user to make. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Ironholds-2013-07-08T10:21:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:21, 8 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-08T10:21:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2013-07-08T10:21:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-08T10:39:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span>@Alanscottwalker indeed; I'm now doing so - basically staying away from the IRC channels, frankly. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Ironholds-2013-07-08T10:39:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:39, 8 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2013-07-08T10:39:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2013-07-08T10:39:00.000Z-Ironholds-2013-07-05T23:50:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz" data-mw-thread-id="h-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-10T12:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-10T12:55:00.000Z"></span>Statement by Kiefer.Wolfowitz<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz-Preliminary_statements-2013-07-10T12:55:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-07-10T12:55:00.000Z-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz"></span>The request to clean up IRC is premature without an RfC, unless ArbCom is acting on powers from Jimbo Wales. </p> <dl><dt>Arbcom's authority to govern WP's IRC channels</dt></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo Wales</a> stated that <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AIRC_channels%2Fwikipedia-en-admins&diff=180255135&oldid=180251595">WP's IRC channels are governed by ArbCom</a>. </p><p>The WMF owns the trademark "Wikipedia" and can force the channels to change their names and disassociate themselves from Wikipedia. WMF/Wikipedia can remove <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IRC" title="Wikipedia:IRC">WP:IRC</a>. </p> <dl><dt>IRC</dt></dl> <p>I moved constructive suggestions to <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz#IRC:_Corruption_and_liability" title="User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz">my talkpage</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz&oldid=563663075">permalink</a>), after they were evicted from <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard&oldid=563659878">Noticeboard of Arbitration Committee</a><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AArbitration_Committee%2FNoticeboard&action=view&diff=563659878">[1]</a> and this page's talkpage. </p> <dl><dt>"All the conduct of the parties", including the 2011 RfC</dt></dl> <p>Several Arbs want to make this an open-ended investigation. </p><p>Now then is the time to deal with administrative abuses involving WP:NPA violations by arbitrators, administrators, and their familiars, particularly </p> <ul><li>false accusations of sockpuppetry, made with no evidence: Pedro, Horologium, The Rambling Man,</li> <li>Worm That Turned and Demiurge1000's abuses at that RfC/U and since. One charge was that I had "outed" a new editor. In fact, that editor was using multiple accounts to promote his faction in SPUSA, and had outed at least one opponent. Oversight/ArbCom ignored that outing, despite repeated requests and assurances. This committee and administrators (even in larval form) use rules to punish its opponents, not to enforce policy.</li> <li>New York Brad's acquiescence to personal attacks against me while cautioning me for responding in kind, and also his attempts to misuse the block to stop me from participating at RfA. (This discussion involves Drmies and Horologium also.)</li></ul> <p>Given this committee's abuse of sockpupetry investigations and its leaking of emails as part of its harassment of Eric Corbett/Malleus Fatuorum, the community will probably also wish to comment on this committee's and the administrative corps other abuses. </p><p>So let's have this "open-ended investigation" into the "behavior of all parties". </p><p>I want a straight answer: When have I been check-usered and by whom? <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz"><span style="color:blue;background:yellow;"><b>Kiefer</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz#top" title="User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz"><span style="color:blue;">.Wolfowitz</span></a></span></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-07-10T12:55:00.000Z-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:55, 10 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-07-10T12:55:00.000Z-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-07-10T12:55:00.000Z-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz"></span> </p> <dl><dt>Replies</dt></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-07-10T13:46:00.000Z-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz"></span>Last year's ArbCom seemed to diagnose but actually (in retrospect) clearly endorsed the "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility_enforcement#Inconsistencies_in_civility_enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement">uneven and ineffective enforcement of civility</a>". The "uneven and ineffective enforcement of civility" is the motto of this ArbCom, alas. </p> <dl><dt><dl><dt>To administrators</dt></dl> </dt><dd><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Sandstein" title="User:Sandstein">Sandstein</a>:</span> claims that my statement, that Ironholds is welcome to come to Sweden and try to light me on fire and <a href="/wiki/The_Crying_Game" title="The Crying Game">deal with the consequences</a>, is a threat to bodily harm. Can Sandstein use "Ironholds is welcome to" in a complete sentence and explain what it means? <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz"><span style="color:blue;background:yellow;"><b>Kiefer</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz#top" title="User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz"><span style="color:blue;">.Wolfowitz</span></a></span></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-07-10T13:46:00.000Z-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-07-10T13:46:00.000Z-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-07-10T13:46:00.000Z-Statement_by_Kiefer.Wolfowitz"></span></dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256386598">.mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#F0F2F5;color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#CCFFCC;color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-mainspace{background:#14181F;color:inherit}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cot-header-other{background:#003500;color:inherit}}</style> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:center;"><div style="font-size:115%;margin:0 4em">Reply to Pedro</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Pedro" title="User:Pedro">Pedro</a>:</span>, to accept the case, some arbs want to claim that the 2011 RfC/U constitutes the usual RfC before accepting this case. This argument would establish the scope of the case me and Ironholds since the beginning. If we discuss years of behavior, I shall discuss the one-sided enforcement of incivility---with no-evidence accusations of sockpuppetry from you being a small part.</dd> <dd><small>You have---since stating that <a href="/wiki/User:SandyGeorgia" title="User:SandyGeorgia">SandyGeorgia</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SandyGeorgia" title="User talk:SandyGeorgia">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SandyGeorgia" title="Special:Contributions/SandyGeorgia">contribs</a>) was a-courtin' the "Wikipedia fraternity", etc.---claimed to have recognized me as the reincarnation of somebody, even in recent months. Similar accusations were made by the other admins, named above. Please review WP:NPA, which probits allegations without evidence.</small></dd> <dd>If ArbCom does not use the 2011 RfC, then they should reject the case, since Kww, Fram, and I have barely discussed the block. (I have never objected to a reasonable block for daring to insult an administrator discussing lighting me on fire. I know my place....)</dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dt><dl><dt><dl><dt>To arbitrators</dt></dl></dt></dl> </dt><dd><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a>:</span> Brad accuses me of personal attacks and incivility. Rather, more precisely, when I am personally attacked by administrators and Brad and other administrators do nothing to stop the abuse, I have responded in kind, after which <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bureaucrats%27_noticeboard/Archive_28#Bureaucrat_views_RFA_talk-page_discussion_as_play_and_entertainment" title="Wikipedia:Bureaucrats' noticeboard/Archive 28">Brad has assured us that nothing need be done about the administrator</a>. (I'll provide links of Brad's previous assurances to benchmark the value of his present assurances about Ironholds, less than <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&search=%22Fully+qualified+candidate%22+Newyorkbrad&fulltext=Search&ns4=1&profile=advanced">"fully qualified candidate"</a>.)</dd> <dd>Brad should remain because he has more sense than the committee without him, but he should be prepared to take responsibility for his behavior, in full view of the community, for example in his acquiescence to the sexist insult "get your [women's underwear] twisted".</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Preliminary_decision" data-mw-thread-id="h-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Preliminary decision<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Clerk_notes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Clerk_notes-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T05:07:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Clerk_notes-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T05:07:00.000Z"></span>Clerk notes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Clerk_notes-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T05:07:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Guerillero-2013-07-06T05:07:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"></span>This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).</i></dd></dl> <ul><li>While I am an an inactive clerk due to my role on the AUSC, I am going to be extra safe and <b>recuse</b> here just to be safe if the <a href="/wiki/Impressment" title="Impressment">press gang</a> comes in my direction --<a href="/wiki/User:Guerillero" title="User:Guerillero"><span style="color:#0b0080;">Guerillero</span></a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Guerillero" title="User talk:Guerillero"><span style="color:green;">My Talk</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Guerillero-2013-07-06T05:07:00.000Z-Clerk_notes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:07, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Guerillero-2013-07-06T05:07:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Guerillero-2013-07-06T05:07:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hahc21-2013-07-07T21:25:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"></span>Recuse</b> — <a href="/wiki/User:Hahc21" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Hahc21"><span style="color:#333333;"><b>ΛΧΣ</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hahc21" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Hahc21"><span style="color:#336699;"><b><sup>21</sup></b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Hahc21-2013-07-07T21:25:00.000Z-Clerk_notes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 7 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hahc21-2013-07-07T21:25:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hahc21-2013-07-07T21:25:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Penwhale-2013-07-10T18:00:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"></span>Per instruction on the mailing list, I have pruned the list of parties. - <a href="/wiki/User:Penwhale" title="User:Penwhale">Penwhale</a> | <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Penwhale" title="User talk:Penwhale">dance in the air</a> and <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Penwhale" title="Special:Contributions/Penwhale">follow his steps</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Penwhale-2013-07-10T18:00:00.000Z-Clerk_notes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 10 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Penwhale-2013-07-10T18:00:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Penwhale-2013-07-10T18:00:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ks0stm-2013-07-15T17:25:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"></span>Recuse</b>. A bit tardy but I've decided I'm going to present evidence. <a href="/wiki/User:Ks0stm" title="User:Ks0stm"><span style="color:#009900;"><b>Ks0stm</b></span></a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ks0stm" title="User talk:Ks0stm">T</a>•<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ks0stm" title="Special:Contributions/Ks0stm">C</a>•<a href="/wiki/User:Ks0stm/Guestbook" title="User:Ks0stm/Guestbook">G</a>•<a href="/wiki/User:Ks0stm/Email" title="User:Ks0stm/Email">E</a>)</sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Ks0stm-2013-07-15T17:25:00.000Z-Clerk_notes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 15 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ks0stm-2013-07-15T17:25:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ks0stm-2013-07-15T17:25:00.000Z-Clerk_notes"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matter_<5/4/2/0>" data-mw-thread-id="h-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matt-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span id="Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators.27_opinion_on_hearing_this_matter_.3C5.2F4.2F2.2F0.3E"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matt-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Offsite comments and personal attacks: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <5/4/2/0><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matt-Preliminary_decision-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span class="anchor" id="Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matter"></span><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matt"></span>Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse/other)</small> </p> <ul><li>I need to see more statements, before making up my mind; however, at first glance, there are two aspects that IMHO should be emphasised. First, while IRC is technically off-wiki, in my opinion, it's different from sites such as Wikipediocracy, because IRC has strong ties to the community that other sites lack. And, second, Ironholds, you are an admin (and a Foundation employee), so you really should know better. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Salvio_giuliano" title="User:Salvio giuliano">Salvio</a></b></span> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Salvio_giuliano" title="User talk:Salvio giuliano"><sup>Let's talk about it!</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matt" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matt"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z-Offsite_comments_and_personal_attacks:_Arbitrators'_opinion_on_hearing_this_matt"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T10:58:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Well, Ironholds, in my line of work, what I do in my spare time may reflect on my employer and I may be sanctioned for something I do when I'm acting "in my personal capacity", if it's crass enough. So my advice would be to be a tad more careful. Then again, this is just a suggestion, as it's not my business how the foundation handle their personnel. <p>What is my business as an arb, however, is your conduct as an editor and, in analysing it, the fact that you're an admin and an employee does factor in. These are positions of trust and, for that, you should lead by example. That's why I said you should know better (and indeed you should). <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Salvio_giuliano" title="User:Salvio giuliano">Salvio</a></b></span> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Salvio_giuliano" title="User talk:Salvio giuliano"><sup>Let's talk about it!</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T10:58:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:58, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T10:58:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T10:58:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span> </p><ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T18:10:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T10:58:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> per <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AIRC_channels%2Fwikipedia-en-admins&diff=180255135&oldid=180251595">Jimbo's 2007 statement</a></span>. By the way, it's difficult to consider IRC and Wikipedia as entirely separate entities, when membership to en-admins is restricted to people who hold certain positions on Wikipedia (i.e. people have access to the channel by virtue of their on-wiki status) and when quasi-official matters may sometimes be discussed there. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Salvio_giuliano" title="User:Salvio giuliano">Salvio</a></b></span> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Salvio_giuliano" title="User talk:Salvio giuliano"><sup>Let's talk about it!</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T18:10:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T10:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:10, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T18:10:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T10:58:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T18:10:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T10:58:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-07T23:06:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T18:10:00.000Z"></span>Kiefer, please remember ArbCom's limitations: we may not create policy. That means we may not close IRC by fiat and we may not impose new rules. We may apply the current ones and we may sanction people, but, if you think that the rules regarding how people are supposed to behave on IRC should be changed, then you have to convince the community or persuade the Foundation to get involved. That's outside of our remit. For that reason, I ask the clerks to revert your addition of Jimbo and Sue to the list of involved parties. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Salvio_giuliano" title="User:Salvio giuliano">Salvio</a></b></span> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Salvio_giuliano" title="User talk:Salvio giuliano"><sup>Let's talk about it!</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-07T23:06:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T18:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:06, 7 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-07T23:06:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T18:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-07T23:06:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T18:10:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-08T09:37:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-07T23:06:00.000Z"></span>NYB, I disagree that this request is only about one flippant remark. If that was the only inappropriate thing Ironholds ever wrote on IRC, then there would be no reason for us to intervene, I concur; however, there is a pattern of inappropriate replies and, as far as I can see, no remorse. Not to mention that Ironholds is not the only person who, at first glance, has behaved inappropriately. And for all those reasons, I still think a case is necessary. <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em;" class="texhtml"> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Salvio_giuliano" title="User:Salvio giuliano">Salvio</a></b></span> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Salvio_giuliano" title="User talk:Salvio giuliano"><sup>Let's talk about it!</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-08T09:37:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-07T23:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:37, 8 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-08T09:37:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-07T23:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-08T09:37:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-07T23:06:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>I'll await a few more statements (and need to see what direction the discussion takes to evaluate whether I have a recusal issue). However, one question that Mark Arsten asks above does have a clear answer: sanctions may be imposed for misconduct off-wiki, but only when it is very serious (as an example, an <i>actual</i> threat against another editor, as opposed to an ill-chosen, obnoxious comment about him). Beyond that, a lot of what I have to say about IRC can be found in a long comment I posted today on my talkpage, and a lot of what I have to say about Wikipediocracy can be found in my comment on the "Linking to Wikipediocracy" case request below. Both of which are recommended reading if I do say so myself, and if taken to heart by the parties here, might solve this mess. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:35, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-07T01:42:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span>I'm in transit tonight and will vote tomorrow. In the meantime, as a non-substantive observation, either Kiefer Wolfowitz wins a Most Amusing Typo award or he has an odd sense of child-unfriendly topics or he needs to look up <a href="/wiki/Eschatology" title="Eschatology">eschatology</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-07T01:42:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 7 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-07T01:42:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-07T01:42:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-08T01:55:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span>Decline</b>. Several people have behaved badly here, but having an arbitration case about this mess would be an exercise in not so much dispute resolution as drama magnification. The lessons to be learned are already apparent for anyone who wishes to learn them (and if anyone doesn't, I suspect they will be back here soon enough). Some specific comments and bits of advice (I won't repeat here everything I've already said on my talkpage): <ul><li><i>Ironholds</i>. Ironholds made a sardonic, humorously intended, ill-thought-out comment in passing about an editor he is peeved at, in a semipublic off-wiki forum. The comment was obviously inappropriate, but it also obviously was not a "threat" to harm someone, and it has been blown up out of all proportion, such that I cannot see any value to discussing it for another month in an arbitration case. Ironholds seems from his statement to have gotten the message, and I trust it would be pleonastic to tell him, formally or informally, not to do this again.</li> <li><i>Editors' real-world employment with the WMF</i>. Not within this Committee's area of responsibility, nor would I want to touch it; although just as we want administrators to model good behavior rather than bad, I have the same desire for those working for the project(s) in a professional capacity.</li> <li><i>Kiefer.Wolfowitz</i>. (I acknowledge this editor's waiver of my potential recusal, at least for purposes of this request.) Kiefer.Wolfowitz is habitually uncivil and makes personal attacks on other editors, both on- and off-wiki. Some of his recent comments have crossed the line of being <i>actually</i> defamatory of another editor (not Ironholds) and need to stop immediately. Kiefer.Wolfowitz has been asked many times by many people to clean up his act, and I sincerely hope he will, because no one has an infinite number of chances (there's already been an RfC), and his content contributions add significant value that we are too close to losing. If he doesn't sand down his exceedingly sharp edges, I fear that I foresee a long block and/or an arbitration case of his very own in his wiki-future, but the discussion in either event should focus primarily on a broader picture than is framed by this request; in any event I hope that it will not be necessary after all.</li> <li><i>Interaction avoidance</i>. Ironholds and Kiefer.Wolfowitz are counseled in the strongest possible terms to stop talking about each other, in all forums. The same goes for Kiefer.Wolfowitz and at least one other editor whose identity should be obvious to him.</li> <li><i>IRC—status</i>. As alluded to by Risker, Jimbo Wales' suggestion that this Committee assume some form of responsibility for the #admins IRC channel never gained traction five years ago, for a number of reasons, and I see little chance of moving in that direction now. And as Salvio giuliano and others correctly observe, we have absolutely no authority to shut the channel down, even assuming <i>arguendo</i> we decided this was a good idea.</li> <li><i>IRC—decorum</i>. We can all take this opportunity to reaffirm what this Committee said about the channel in the 2008 <i>Eastern European disputes</i> case, including that the channel is not to be misused for things like block-shopping (except in genuine emergency situations) or as a forum for abusive comments about editors. Crass remarks and behavior in a forum for English Wikipedia administrators reflect badly on English Wikipedia and on its administrators.</li> <li><i>IRC—child protection</i>. This issue is off-topic in the context of this request. In any event, this Committee has no ability to implement any of the suggestions that have been made, even if we wanted to, and speaking personally as to at least some of them I would not want to.</li> <li><i>Delicious carbuncle</i>. Cute but not helpful.</li> <li><i>Mark Arsten's original question</i> about when and how off-wiki comments can be taken into account for on-wiki discussions. Bottom line: they can be taken into account in serious situations involving threats, harassment, bullying, etc., on a case-by-case basis. See my comment above; see also the <i>Jim62sch</i> and <i>Fae</i> cases, among others. (A moment's reflection suggests that this is really the only possible answer; neither the idea that off-wiki is the same as on-wiki, nor the idea that off-wiki is always irrelevant, could be coherently followed or enjoy any support in policy or this Committee's decisions.)</li> <li><i>Bottom line</i>: I respect the views of those who think we have a responsibility to do something here, but opening an arbitration case will only fan the flames. If there is a consensus to try to work out a motion reaffirming the basic principles at work here, for purposes of pointed emphasis, I would be glad to collaborate in drafting one. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-08T01:55:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:55, 8 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-08T01:55:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-08T01:55:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T18:59:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span>Response to Cla68</b>: As I thought was already clear, the IRC channels are not hosted on "WMF servers." As I understand it, they are hosted by <a href="/wiki/Freenode" title="Freenode">Freenode</a>. See also <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IRC" title="Wikipedia:IRC">Wikipedia:IRC</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T18:59:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:59, 9 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T18:59:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T18:59:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T19:23:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span>Response to Cla68, Collect and others</b>: The links I've just provided above contain much of the information you are looking for. Meanwhile, it occurs to me that another way of looking at the situation might be to analogize IRC to a Wikipedia meet-up. If the New York Chapter holds a meet-up, it is connected to Wikipedia in the sense that it is publicized on this site, people may sign up on this site, and the discussion (formal and informal) may center around this site. Yet it is not "part of Wikipedia" in the sense that if I make a rude remark about another editor at the meet-up, no matter how misguided that might be of me, I wouldn't expect to be sanctioned for it on Wikipedia ... but if I overtly, for example, made credible threats to harm the editor or acted in a grotesquely improper fashion, I might be. Perhaps that analogy will help a bit (or perhaps it will muddy the waters even further). <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T19:23:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 9 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T19:23:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T19:23:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T20:24:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span>Comment re latest from Kiefer.Wolfowitz</b>: His reference is to an incident in which some of the discussion in an RfA a few weeks ago deteriorated to an uncivil and nasty level, with several editors at varying degrees of fault. At the time, Kiefer.Wolfowitz strongly criticized me because in the ensuing discussions I didn't scold him and another editor equally—which I didn't, because rightly or wrongly, I didn't perceive the two of them as being equally blameworthy. Subsequently, Kiefer.Wolfowitz stated on his talkpage that for both this and another reason, he lacked confidence in my judgment. Until this case request, I had thereafter stayed away from any further discussion involving him; and I would not have addressed the KW aspect of this request, if he had not voluntarily posted, without being asked, that he saw no need for me to recuse. Now that I have commented on the request, he has, in my view unhelpfully, re-personalized the matter in my direction, bringing up one of the disagreements between himself and myself that led me to consider recusal in the first place. Ordinarily an arbitrator need not and should not recuse himself or herself as the result of comments made within the case, but at this point it is best that I return to my original plan of staying away from further discussion of this editor, on the arbitration pages or any other. I will allow my decline vote (cast before KW's latest comment) and my statements above to stand, as I think they provide helpful guidance, but if this request is accepted I will recuse myself from further participation the case. <a href="/wiki/User:Newyorkbrad" title="User:Newyorkbrad">Newyorkbrad</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Newyorkbrad" title="User talk:Newyorkbrad">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T20:24:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:24, 9 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T20:24:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-09T20:24:00.000Z-Newyorkbrad-2013-07-06T00:35:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><s><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Recuse</b> because I am an op for the channel (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="irc://irc.freenode.net/wikipedia-en">#wikipedia-en</a>) I presume is in question. <a href="/wiki/User:AGK" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AGK"><span style="color:black;"><b>AGK</b></span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:AGK#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AGK">[•]</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:01, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></s><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Courcelles-2013-07-06T01:07:00.000Z-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z"></span>My understanding is that wikipedia-en-admins, not wikipedia-en, is the channel in question, AGK. <a href="/wiki/User:Courcelles" title="User:Courcelles">Courcelles</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Courcelles-2013-07-06T01:07:00.000Z-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:07, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Courcelles-2013-07-06T01:07:00.000Z-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Courcelles-2013-07-06T01:07:00.000Z-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AGK-2013-07-08T13:00:00.000Z-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z"></span>Thank you Courcelles (and the others who have clarified).</li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li><b>Accept</b> to examine the on-wiki incidents raised above. (Decline any request for us to conduct some pointless reflection on the role of IRC – and, which would be even more pointless, ArbCom's role in relation to IRC.) <a href="/wiki/User:AGK" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AGK"><span style="color:black;"><b>AGK</b></span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:AGK#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AGK">[•]</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-AGK-2013-07-08T13:00:00.000Z-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:00, 8 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AGK-2013-07-08T13:00:00.000Z-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AGK-2013-07-08T13:00:00.000Z-AGK-2013-07-06T01:01:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Courcelles-2013-07-06T03:37:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Recuse</b> <a href="/wiki/User:Courcelles" title="User:Courcelles">Courcelles</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Courcelles-2013-07-06T03:37:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:37, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Courcelles-2013-07-06T03:37:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Courcelles-2013-07-06T03:37:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-06T18:22:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Awaiting further statements as I try to get a better bearing of this situation. Someone let me know if they feel I ought to recuse for some reason. <a href="/wiki/User:NuclearWarfare" title="User:NuclearWarfare"><b style="color:navy;">NW</b></a> <i>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NuclearWarfare" title="User talk:NuclearWarfare"><span style="color:green;">Talk</span></a>)</i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-06T18:22:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:22, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-06T18:22:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-06T18:22:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kirill_Lokshin-2013-07-06T19:47:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b>. <a href="/wiki/User:Kirill_Lokshin" title="User:Kirill Lokshin">Kirill</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kirill_Lokshin" title="User talk:Kirill Lokshin">[talk]</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Kirill_Lokshin-2013-07-06T19:47:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:47, 6 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kirill_Lokshin-2013-07-06T19:47:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kirill_Lokshin-2013-07-06T19:47:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Risker-2013-07-07T01:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Comment:</b> Not sure what case people want us to take, as there are at least three proposed here: something about an IRC channel (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/IRC" title="Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/IRC">case from 2007</a> that went just about nowhere, and that was when Jimbo's statement was relatively current); something about child protection, although it's pretty muddled what Kiefer is getting at there, given that the channels are owned by Freenode and not by Arbcom, Wikipedia, or even the WMF; something about two users with a long history of incivility/snark/verbal nastiness/sarcasm/whatever you want to call it, who are now aiming at each other, one of whom is an admin; or whether or not admins can be uncivil/snarky/verbally nasty/sarcastic/whatever about users in semi-public off-wiki settings. I'll decline to take anything related to statements from six years ago, to IRC, or to someone's odd notions of child protection based. If there is more focus on user interaction and/or admin actions, I will consider a case. <a href="/wiki/User:Risker" title="User:Risker">Risker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Risker" title="User talk:Risker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Risker-2013-07-07T01:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:03, 7 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Risker-2013-07-07T01:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Risker-2013-07-07T01:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Risker-2013-07-08T04:17:00.000Z-Risker-2013-07-07T01:03:00.000Z"></span>Decline</b> mainly per Newyorkbrad. Everyone would benefit from a lot less snark and nastiness. There's a difference between an occasional burst of hyperbole related to the pointy end of a systemic problem, and nastiness directed at anyone who disagrees in any way with someone. All of the comments related to this particular matter fall into the second category. <a href="/wiki/User:Risker" title="User:Risker">Risker</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Risker" title="User talk:Risker">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Risker-2013-07-08T04:17:00.000Z-Risker-2013-07-07T01:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:17, 8 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Risker-2013-07-08T04:17:00.000Z-Risker-2013-07-07T01:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Risker-2013-07-08T04:17:00.000Z-Risker-2013-07-07T01:03:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-08T07:55:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Well it looks like I've missed a lot on the encyclopedia over the past few days, enjoying the rather overdue summer. As I see it, this case is split into two parts, the narrow focussed case on the incident and the general issue of actions on IRC. <s>Now, on the incident itself,</s> I <b>recuse</b>. On the more general issue of IRC we're in a difficult situation. Despite Jimbo's comments in 2007, I do not see how IRC falls under Arbcom's purview. There's so many reasons it shouldn't be controlled by the Arbitration committee. It's owned by Freenode and is a clustering of community members, definitely off-wiki. Would we expect Arbcom to start managing Wiki-meetups? Off-wiki websites dedicated to Wikipedia? No, Arbcom should not be controlling any of these, we're here to deal with disputes <i>on-wiki</i>. I think that's a simple answer to a simple question <br/> So Arbcom can't control these off-wiki areas, but the next question is "should people be held accountable on-wiki for actions at those off-wiki locations?" I don't believe that the answer to that question is nearly as clear and it would have to be a judgement call, based upon the nature of the actions, the audience, how closely tied the off-wiki location is to Wikipedia, whether the comments were made in real time or in a manner which allowed reflection and other factors. Should Arbcom be dictating the answer to that question? In my opinion it should not, Arbcom does not create policy. As NYB comments, Arbcom has does take off-wiki actions into account "in serious situations involving threats, harassment, bullying, etc., on a case-by-case basis". When, if at all, admins should be doing the same is down to the community to decide, and I recommend an RfC on the matter. <s>So, on the general case, I <b>decline</b>. <small>I've no idea how to update the tally on this, recusing and declining on different parts of the case... I'm tempted to put 0.5 in each! If a kind clerk or arb can put me out of my misery, I'd appreciate it</small></s> <a href="/wiki/User:Worm_That_Turned" title="User:Worm That Turned"><span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;"><i><b>Worm</b></i></span></a><sup>TT</sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Worm_That_Turned" title="User talk:Worm That Turned"><span style="color:#060;">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-08T07:55:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:55, 8 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-08T07:55:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-08T07:55:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-09T07:45:00.000Z-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-08T07:55:00.000Z"></span>Upon further reflection, I think it would be easier to manage and better for appearances if I just recuse all together. I'm sure the other arbitrators can handle this. I'll leave my statement, because I believe it's still relevant. <a href="/wiki/User:Worm_That_Turned" title="User:Worm That Turned"><span style="text-shadow:0 -1px #DDD,1px 0 #DDD,0 1px #DDD,-1px 0 #DDD; color:#000;"><i><b>Worm</b></i></span></a><sup>TT</sup>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Worm_That_Turned" title="User talk:Worm That Turned"><span style="color:#060;">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-09T07:45:00.000Z-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-08T07:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:45, 9 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-09T07:45:00.000Z-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-08T07:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-09T07:45:00.000Z-Worm_That_Turned-2013-07-08T07:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Fuchs-2013-07-08T13:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Decline</b>. While there have been a lot of good points brought forward by some editors above, I still don't see this case generating any helpful outcomes. It is a principle we have affirmed several times (recently in the Sexology case) that off-wiki comments can be taken into account for on-wiki sanctions if there's an issue on-wiki as well; Kiefer's comments would fall under that purview. Despite Jimbo's comments, the Arbitration Committee has never acted to control IRC; if there was a time to do so, that was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/IRC">years ago</a>, but I don't think we have any right to do so now or back then. Ironholds and Kiefer have acted like colossal blockheads, and I'm disappointed that their statements here were mostly about blaming the other party than addressing their own clearly poor conduct. I would recommend they work past their differences like adults that can use an expanded vocabulary, or else disengage entirely from antagonizing each other. The little amount of self control needed here doesn't seem like an extreme request. The community can take any on-wiki issues to a user RfC for either of these parties. <a href="/wiki/User:David_Fuchs" title="User:David Fuchs"><span style="color:#cc6600;">Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs</span></a><sup><small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Fuchs" title="User talk:David Fuchs"><span style="color:#ff6600;">talk</span></a>)</small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-David_Fuchs-2013-07-08T13:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:03, 8 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Fuchs-2013-07-08T13:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Fuchs-2013-07-08T13:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-09T01:09:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Decline as a full case</b> (per DF, NYB). Would consider and likely support a motion along the lines of what OiD suggests if another Arbitrator wants to propose it. <a href="/wiki/User:NuclearWarfare" title="User:NuclearWarfare"><b style="color:navy;">NW</b></a> <i>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NuclearWarfare" title="User talk:NuclearWarfare"><span style="color:green;">Talk</span></a>)</i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-09T01:09:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:09, 9 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-09T01:09:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-09T01:09:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-13T23:17:00.000Z-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-09T01:09:00.000Z"></span>After some consideration and talking it over with a few folks, I think I am going to <b>recuse</b> (post-acceptance comment). <a href="/wiki/User:NuclearWarfare" title="User:NuclearWarfare"><b style="color:navy;">NW</b></a> <i>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NuclearWarfare" title="User talk:NuclearWarfare"><span style="color:green;">Talk</span></a>)</i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-13T23:17:00.000Z-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-09T01:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:17, 13 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-13T23:17:00.000Z-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-09T01:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-13T23:17:00.000Z-NuclearWarfare-2013-07-09T01:09:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Timotheus_Canens-2013-07-10T00:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> to examine the conduct of all parties. <a href="/wiki/User:Timotheus_Canens" title="User:Timotheus Canens">T. Canens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Timotheus_Canens" title="User talk:Timotheus Canens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Timotheus_Canens-2013-07-10T00:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 10 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Timotheus_Canens-2013-07-10T00:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Timotheus_Canens-2013-07-10T00:03:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Roger_Davies-2013-07-10T04:53:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span>Accept</b> primarily to examine on-wiki conduct. IRC communications are not per se within the committee's remit except to the extent that the committee <i>may</i> take notice of them when "making decisions about conduct on the English Wikipedia if such outside conduct impacts ... adversely upon the English Wikipedia or its editors". <a href="/wiki/User:Roger_Davies" title="User:Roger Davies"><span style="color:maroon; font-variant:small-caps"><b>Roger Davies</b></span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Roger_Davies" title="User talk:Roger Davies"><i>talk</i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Roger_Davies-2013-07-10T04:53:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:53, 10 July 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Roger_Davies-2013-07-10T04:53:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Roger_Davies-2013-07-10T04:53:00.000Z-Salvio_giuliano-2013-07-06T00:11:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Temporary_injunction_(none)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Temporary_injunction_(none)-Preliminary_decision"><span id="Temporary_injunction_.28none.29"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Temporary_injunction_(none)-Preliminary_decision"></span>Temporary injunction (none)<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Temporary_injunction_(none)-Preliminary_decision"></span></h3></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading1"><h1 id="Final_decision" data-mw-thread-id="h-Final_decision-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Final_decision-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"></span>Final decision<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Final_decision-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"></span></h1></div> <p><i>All tallies are based the votes at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Proposed_decision" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Proposed decision">/Proposed decision</a>, where comments and discussion from the voting phase is also available.</i> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Principles" data-mw-thread-id="h-Principles-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Principles-Final_decision"></span>Principles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Principles-Final_decision"></span></h2></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Purpose_of_Wikipedia" data-mw-thread-id="h-Purpose_of_Wikipedia-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Purpose_of_Wikipedia-Principles"></span>Purpose of Wikipedia<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Purpose_of_Wikipedia-Principles"></span></h3></div> <p>1) The purpose of Wikipedia is to create a high-quality, free-content encyclopedia in an atmosphere of camaraderie and mutual respect among contributors. Contributors whose actions are detrimental to that goal may be asked to refrain from them, even when these actions are undertaken in good faith. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Casting_aspersions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Casting_aspersions-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Casting_aspersions-Principles"></span>Casting aspersions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Casting_aspersions-Principles"></span></h3></div> <p>2) An editor must not accuse another of misbehavior without evidence, especially when the accusations are repeated or severe. If accusations must be made, they should be raised, with evidence, on the user-talk page of the editor they concern or in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution">appropriate forums</a>. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Allegations_that_an_editor_may_be_violating_the_policy_on_the_protection_of_children" data-mw-thread-id="h-Allegations_that_an_editor_may_be_violating_the_policy_on_the_protection_of_chil-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Allegations_that_an_editor_may_be_violating_the_policy_on_the_protection_of_chil-Principles"></span>Allegations that an editor may be violating the policy on the protection of children<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Allegations_that_an_editor_may_be_violating_the_policy_on_the_protection_of_chil-Principles"></span></h3></div> <p>3) Reports that an editor may be violating Wikipedia's policy <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Child_protection" title="Wikipedia:Child protection">regarding the protection of children</a> must be communicated in private to the Arbitration Committee or to the Wikimedia Foundation. Users must not discuss such allegations on-wiki; users who do so may receive sanctions up to and including an indefinite block, regardless of the correctness of the allegations. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Etiquette" data-mw-thread-id="h-Etiquette-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Etiquette-Principles"></span>Etiquette<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Etiquette-Principles"></span></h3></div> <p>4) <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette" title="Wikipedia:Etiquette">Wikipedia's code of conduct</a> is one of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">five pillars</a> of Wikipedia that all editors should adhere to. Wikipedia editors are expected to behave reasonably and calmly in their interactions with other users, to keep their cool when editing, and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Administrators are expected to adhere to this at a higher standard. Unseemly conduct—including, but not limited to, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">personal attacks</a>, lack of respect for other editors, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Do_not_disrupt_Wikipedia_to_illustrate_a_point" title="Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point">disrupting Wikipedia to make a point</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">offensive language</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Trolling" title="Wikipedia:Trolling">trolling</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Harassment" title="Wikipedia:Harassment">harassment</a>, are all inconsistent with Wikipedia etiquette. Editors should not respond to such behavior in kind; concerns regarding the actions of other users should be addressed in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution">appropriate forums</a>. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Conduct_on_arbitration_pages" data-mw-thread-id="h-Conduct_on_arbitration_pages-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Conduct_on_arbitration_pages-Principles"></span>Conduct on arbitration pages<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Conduct_on_arbitration_pages-Principles"></span></h3></div> <p>5) The pages associated with Arbitration cases are primarily intended to assist the Arbitration Committee in arriving at a fair, well-informed, and expeditious resolution of each case. Participation by editors who present good-faith statements, evidence, and workshop proposals is appreciated. While allowance is made for the fact that parties and other interested editors may have strong feelings about the subject-matters of their dispute, appropriate decorum should be maintained on these pages. Incivility, personal attacks, and strident rhetoric should be avoided in Arbitration as in all other areas of Wikipedia. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground-Principles"></span>Wikipedia is not a battleground<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground-Principles"></span></h3></div> <p>6) Wikipedia is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_battleground" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a battleground</a>. Consequently, it is a not a venue for the furtherance of grudges and personal disputes. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Offensive_commentary" data-mw-thread-id="h-Offensive_commentary-Principles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Offensive_commentary-Principles"></span>Offensive commentary<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Offensive_commentary-Principles"></span></h3></div> <p>7) Repeated use of sarcasm, wordplay formulated to mock another user, casting aspersions on fellow editors, or use of language that can reasonably be anticipated to offend is disruptive, particularly when it distracts from the focus of an ongoing discussion. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Findings_of_fact" data-mw-thread-id="h-Findings_of_fact-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Findings_of_fact-Final_decision"></span>Findings of fact<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Findings_of_fact-Final_decision"></span></h2></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Nature_of_the_case" data-mw-thread-id="h-Nature_of_the_case-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Nature_of_the_case-Findings_of_fact"></span>Nature of the case<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Nature_of_the_case-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3></div> <p>1) The case request revolved around the poor conduct outside Wikipedia of both Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds, which led to sanctions when Kiefer.Wolfowitz responded to off-wiki comments on Wikipedia. The case was accepted to review the overall conduct of the two named parties. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Kiefer.Wolfowitz" data-mw-thread-id="h-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-Findings_of_fact"></span>Kiefer.Wolfowitz<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3></div> <p>2) Despite being a prolific content creator, Kiefer.Wolfowitz also has an extensive history of making comments which are below the level of civility that is expected on Wikipedia, which include personal attacks, often made in an attempt to belittle other editors (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz&diff=528066895&oldid=528066262">[2]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz&diff=500524696&oldid=500524227">[3]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz&diff=500715599&oldid=500713786">[4]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz&diff=488821283&oldid=488794447">[5]</a>, <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Statistics&diff=479288769&oldid=479288123">[6]</a>; for more examples, v. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Evidence#Kiefer.Wolfowitz_has_an_extensive_history_incivility" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Evidence">here</a>), and carefully worded remarks which insinuate misconduct on the part of others without actually asserting it openly (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=558183290&oldid=558182622">[7]</a>, v.<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds/Evidence#Kiefer.Wolfowitz's_mastery_of_deniable_innuendo" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz and Ironholds/Evidence">here</a>). He has also made on-wiki allegations that other editors may have violated the policy on the protection of children. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Ironholds" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ironholds-Findings_of_fact"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ironholds-Findings_of_fact"></span>Ironholds<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ironholds-Findings_of_fact"></span></h3></div> <p>3) Ironholds is a very prolific content creator. He is an administrator with a history of making highly inappropriate remarks both on-wiki (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Fluffernutter&diff=prev&oldid=444533245">[8]</a>) and off-wiki on the various IRC channels, where he has often used violent and sexual language (evidence for this has been submitted and discussed in private). Moreover, on at least two occasions, he also logged out to engage in vandalism and to make personal attacks on other editors on other Wikimedia projects (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://simple.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Fr33kman&diff=prev&oldid=2933618">[9]</a>; <a class="external autonumber" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ottava_Rima&diff=2790553&oldid=2703309">[10]</a>) </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Remedies" data-mw-thread-id="h-Remedies-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Remedies-Final_decision"></span>Remedies<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Remedies-Final_decision"></span></h2></div> <p><small><i>Note: All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated.</i></small> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Ironholds_desysopped" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ironholds_desysopped-Remedies"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ironholds_desysopped-Remedies"></span>Ironholds desysopped<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ironholds_desysopped-Remedies"></span></h3></div> <p>1) For conduct unbecoming an administrator, and for bringing the project into disrepute, Ironholds is desysopped and may regain the tools via a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFA">request for adminship</a>. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Ironholds_admonished" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ironholds_admonished-Remedies"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ironholds_admonished-Remedies"></span>Ironholds admonished<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ironholds_admonished-Remedies"></span></h3></div> <p>2.2) For his history of incivility, which includes logging out to engage in vandalism and to make personal attacks on other editors on other Wikimedia projects, Ironholds is strongly admonished. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 5 to 2, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Kiefer.Wolfowitz_banned" data-mw-thread-id="h-Kiefer.Wolfowitz_banned-Remedies"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Kiefer.Wolfowitz_banned-Remedies"></span>Kiefer.Wolfowitz banned<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Kiefer.Wolfowitz_banned-Remedies"></span></h3></div> <p>3) For numerous violations of Wikipedia's norms and policies, Kiefer.Wolfowitz is indefinitely banned from the English Language Wikipedia. He may request reconsideration of the ban twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every six months thereafter. </p> <dl><dd><i>Passed 7 to 0, 22:45, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Enforcement" data-mw-thread-id="h-Enforcement-Final_decision"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Enforcement-Final_decision"></span>Enforcement<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Enforcement-Final_decision"></span></h2></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Enforcement_of_restrictions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Enforcement_of_restrictions-Enforcement"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Enforcement_of_restrictions-Enforcement"></span>Enforcement of restrictions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Enforcement_of_restrictions-Enforcement"></span></h3></div> <p>0) Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year. </p> <dl><dd><i>In accordance with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Standard_provision:_enforcement_of_restrictions" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">procedure for the standard enforcement provision</a> adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Appeals_and_modifications" data-mw-thread-id="h-Appeals_and_modifications-Enforcement"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Appeals_and_modifications-Enforcement"></span>Appeals and modifications<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Appeals_and_modifications-Enforcement"></span></h3></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256386598"> <div style="margin-left:0"> <table class="mw-collapsible mw-archivedtalk mw-collapsed" style="color:inherit; background: transparent; text-align: left; border: 1px solid Silver; margin: 0.2em auto auto; width:100%; clear: both; padding: 1px;"> <tbody><tr> <th class="cot-header-other" style="background:#DCDCDC; font-size:87%; padding:0.2em 0.3em; text-align:left; color:#202122"><div style="font-size:115%;">0) Appeals and modifications</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:inherit; border: solid 1px Silver; padding: 0.6em; background: var(--background-color-base, #fff);"> <p><i>This procedure applies to appeals related to, and modifications of, actions taken by administrators to enforce the Committee's remedies. It does not apply to appeals related to the remedies directly enacted by the Committee.</i> </p> <dl><dt>Appeals by sanctioned editors</dt></dl> <p>Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may: </p> <ol><li>ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;</li> <li>request review at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement">arbitration enforcement noticeboard</a> ("AE") or at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">administrators’ noticeboard</a> ("AN"); and</li> <li>submit a request for amendment at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification_and_Amendment" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment">"ARCA"</a>. If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through <a href="/wiki/User:Arbitration_Committee" title="User:Arbitration Committee">Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee</a> (or, if email access is revoked, to <span class="nowrap">arbcom-en<span class="mw-no-invert"><span class="skin-invert" typeof="mw:File"><span title="@"><img alt="@" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/15px-At_sign.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/23px-At_sign.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/30px-At_sign.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="145" data-file-height="145"/></span></span></span>wikimedia.org</span>).</li></ol> <dl><dt>Modifications by administrators</dt></dl> <p>No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without: </p> <ol><li>the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or</li> <li>prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).</li></ol> <p>Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped. </p><p>Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied. </p><p>Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions. </p><p><b>Important notes</b>: </p> <ol><li>For a request to succeed, either</li></ol> <dl><dd><dl><dd>(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or</dd> <dd>(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA</dd> <dd>is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <ol><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li><li value="2"> While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.</li> <li>These provisions apply only to contentious topics placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorised by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.</li> <li>All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.</li></ol> </td></tr></tbody></table></div> <dl><dd><i>In accordance with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Standard_provision:_appeals_and_modifications" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">procedure for the standard appeals and modifications provision</a> adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.</i></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions-Final_decision-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"><span id="Log_of_blocks.2C_bans.2C_and_restrictions"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions-Final_decision-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"></span>Log of blocks, bans, and restrictions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions-Final_decision-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p>Any block, restriction, ban, or sanction performed under the authorisation of a remedy for this case must be logged in this section. Please specify the administrator, date and time, nature of sanction, and basis or context. Unless otherwise specified, the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Standardized_enforcement_provision" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">standardised enforcement provision</a> applies to this case. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Notifications" data-mw-thread-id="h-Notifications-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Notifications-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions"></span>Notifications<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Notifications-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions"></span></h3></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Sanctions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sanctions-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sanctions-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"></span>Sanctions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sanctions-Log_of_blocks,_bans,_and_restrictions-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z-Sanctions"></span>I enacted the ban against <a href="/wiki/User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz">Kiefer.Wolfowitz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Kiefer.Wolfowitz" title="Special:Contributions/Kiefer.Wolfowitz">contribs</a>) at 23:01, 13 August 2013 (UTC). See <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=Penwhale&page=User%3AKiefer.Wolfowitz&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=">this</a>.- <a href="/wiki/User:Penwhale" title="User:Penwhale">Penwhale</a> | <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Penwhale" title="User talk:Penwhale">dance in the air</a> and <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Penwhale" title="Special:Contributions/Penwhale">follow his steps</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z-Sanctions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:09, 13 August 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z-Sanctions"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kiefer.Wolfowitz-2013-08-13T23:01:00.000Z-Sanctions"></span></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Callanecc-2013-08-14T10:14:00.000Z-Sanctions"></span>Ironholds</a>'s sysop right removed by <a href="/wiki/User:28bytes" title="User:28bytes">28bytes</a> <span class="plainlinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:28bytes" title="User talk:28bytes">talk</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/28bytes" title="Special:Contributions/28bytes">contribs</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/rights/28bytes" title="Special:Log/rights/28bytes">rights</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/renameuser/28bytes" title="Special:Log/renameuser/28bytes">renames</a>)</span>, see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=28bytes&page=User%3AIronholds&year=2013&month=8&tagfilter=">this</a>. <small>Logged by <b><a href="/wiki/User:Callanecc" title="User:Callanecc">Callanecc</a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Callanecc" title="User talk:Callanecc">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Callanecc" title="Special:Contributions/Callanecc">contribs</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Callanecc" title="Special:Log/Callanecc">logs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds#c-Callanecc-2013-08-14T10:14:00.000Z-Sanctions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:14, 14 August 2013 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Callanecc-2013-08-14T10:14:00.000Z-Sanctions"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Callanecc-2013-08-14T10:14:00.000Z-Sanctions"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></li></ul> <p><br/> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds&oldid=1137489088">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kiefer.Wolfowitz_and_Ironholds&oldid=1137489088</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Category</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_arbitration_cases" title="Category:Wikipedia arbitration cases">Wikipedia arbitration cases</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Noindexed_pages" title="Category:Noindexed pages">Noindexed pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_semi-protected_project_pages" title="Category:Wikipedia semi-protected project pages">Wikipedia semi-protected project pages</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 4 February 2023, at 22:20<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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