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href="#Two_potential_NPOV_bits?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Two potential NPOV bits?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Hanging labels on Susan Jacoby</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">7 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-External_links" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#External_links"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span 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1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Heaven Is for Real">Heaven Is for Real</a> article.<br/> This is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a> for general discussion of the article's subject.</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Special:NewSection/Talk:Heaven Is for Real">Click here to start a new 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typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Christian_cross.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Christian_cross.svg/50px-Christian_cross.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="70" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Christian_cross.svg/75px-Christian_cross.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Christian_cross.svg/100px-Christian_cross.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="404" data-file-height="564"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259569809">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output 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srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/P_christianity.svg/47px-P_christianity.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/P_christianity.svg/62px-P_christianity.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Christianity" title="Portal:Christianity">Christianity portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity">WikiProject Christianity</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Christianity" title="Christianity">Christianity</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Christianity" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Christianity</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Christianity</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Christianity articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-mid"><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Christianity_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Christianity articles">Mid</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Mid-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Christianity/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Christianity/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Antique-books-woodward.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Antique-books-woodward.jpg/24px-Antique-books-woodward.jpg" decoding="async" width="24" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Antique-books-woodward.jpg/37px-Antique-books-woodward.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Antique-books-woodward.jpg/48px-Antique-books-woodward.jpg 2x" data-file-width="981" data-file-height="1017"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Literature" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Literature">Literature</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Antique-books-woodward.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Antique-books-woodward.jpg/70px-Antique-books-woodward.jpg" decoding="async" width="70" height="73" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Antique-books-woodward.jpg/105px-Antique-books-woodward.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Antique-books-woodward.jpg/140px-Antique-books-woodward.jpg 2x" data-file-width="981" data-file-height="1017"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Books-aj.svg_aj_ashton_01.svg/32px-Books-aj.svg_aj_ashton_01.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Books-aj.svg_aj_ashton_01.svg/47px-Books-aj.svg_aj_ashton_01.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Books-aj.svg_aj_ashton_01.svg/63px-Books-aj.svg_aj_ashton_01.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="309" data-file-height="274"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Literature" title="Portal:Literature">Literature portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Literature" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Literature">WikiProject Literature</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Literature" title="Literature">Literature</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Literature" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Literature">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Literature</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Literature</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Literature</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Literature articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Literature_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Literature articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Literature/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Literature/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/19px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" decoding="async" width="19" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/28px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/37px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 2x" data-file-width="405" data-file-height="540"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death">Death</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-mid">Mid‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/80px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg" decoding="async" width="80" height="107" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/120px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg/160px-Caucasian_Human_Skull.jpg 2x" data-file-width="405" data-file-height="540"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death">WikiProject Death</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Death" title="Death">Death</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Death">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Death</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Death</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Death</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Death articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-mid"><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Death_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Death articles">Mid</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Mid-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Death/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Death/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Untitled" data-mw-thread-id="h-Untitled-2011-10-20T17:51:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Untitled-2011-10-20T17:51:00.000Z"></span>Untitled<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Untitled-2011-10-20T17:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Untitled"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-70.184.205.206-2011-10-20T17:51:00.000Z-Untitled"></span>is there a movie<span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/70.184.205.206" title="Special:Contributions/70.184.205.206">70.184.205.206</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:70.184.205.206" title="User talk:70.184.205.206">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-70.184.205.206-2011-10-20T17:51:00.000Z-Untitled" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-70.184.205.206-2011-10-20T17:51:00.000Z-Untitled"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-70.184.205.206-2011-10-20T17:51:00.000Z-Untitled"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Beefcake6412-2011-10-20T18:01:00.000Z-Untitled"></span>This section is not for questions to be posted. Search google, it will take you two minutes.<a href="/wiki/User:Beefcake6412" title="User:Beefcake6412">Beefcake6412</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Beefcake6412" title="User talk:Beefcake6412">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Beefcake6412-2011-10-20T18:01:00.000Z-Untitled" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 20 October 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Beefcake6412-2011-10-20T18:01:00.000Z-Untitled"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Beefcake6412-2011-10-20T18:01:00.000Z-Untitled"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-24.118.40.134-2012-10-10T21:41:00.000Z-Beefcake6412-2011-10-20T18:01:00.000Z"></span>Yes Mr. Beefcake this is the perfect place for him to post this question. Just because it's in question form doesn't mean it's in the wrong place. How in the world could you ever guess he wasn't asking so he could add a line to the page that say's "A movie based on the novel....yada yada". I see people just like you all the time, calm down. This is a Wikipedia talk page, stop taking it so seriously. If I want to come on here, ask a question in relation to improving the article, I will, and a man named Mr. Beefcake isn't going to stop that. You could easily just google it, take two minutes and answer his question, or leave it alone entirely. The seriousness of these talk pages is ridiculous. This talk page will have no more than 5 posting over the next 14 years, but be careful or we might fill up the page! Because archived pages aren't a thing right? The novel peaked in 2011, if the talk page wasn't full then it never will be. This is not Encarta. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.118.40.134" title="Special:Contributions/24.118.40.134">24.118.40.134</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:24.118.40.134&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:24.118.40.134 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-24.118.40.134-2012-10-10T21:41:00.000Z-Beefcake6412-2011-10-20T18:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:41, 10 October 2012 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-24.118.40.134-2012-10-10T21:41:00.000Z-Beefcake6412-2011-10-20T18:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-24.118.40.134-2012-10-10T21:41:00.000Z-Beefcake6412-2011-10-20T18:01:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-206.248.176.237-2013-12-28T16:40:00.000Z-24.118.40.134-2012-10-10T21:41:00.000Z"></span>The link to the Susan Jacoby article in the Washington Post is now redirected to a Christian blog called Faithstreet. This seems to be intentional, since Faithstreet and the Washington Post have the same owners. Nonetheless, the link is no longer valid for the reference. I have no idea how to correct this, but if anyone is doing maintenance on this page, it should be changed. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/206.248.176.237" title="Special:Contributions/206.248.176.237">206.248.176.237</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:206.248.176.237&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:206.248.176.237 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-206.248.176.237-2013-12-28T16:40:00.000Z-24.118.40.134-2012-10-10T21:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:40, 28 December 2013 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-206.248.176.237-2013-12-28T16:40:00.000Z-24.118.40.134-2012-10-10T21:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-206.248.176.237-2013-12-28T16:40:00.000Z-24.118.40.134-2012-10-10T21:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-70.173.96.123-2014-03-29T18:32:00.000Z-206.248.176.237-2013-12-28T16:40:00.000Z"></span>I noticed this also. The redirect is partly due to the fact that the article is no longer at the WaPo address. It is archived here: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://archive.is/ZAzR6">http://archive.is/ZAzR6</a> -- I'll try to edit it in when I'm not posting from a phone. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/70.173.96.123" title="Special:Contributions/70.173.96.123">70.173.96.123</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:70.173.96.123" title="User talk:70.173.96.123">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-70.173.96.123-2014-03-29T18:32:00.000Z-206.248.176.237-2013-12-28T16:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 29 March 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-70.173.96.123-2014-03-29T18:32:00.000Z-206.248.176.237-2013-12-28T16:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-70.173.96.123-2014-03-29T18:32:00.000Z-206.248.176.237-2013-12-28T16:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Courtney11041987-2019-02-05T18:47:00.000Z-Untitled"></span>This book Heaven is For real is either a lie or the boy was being teased by the devil. Nobody in this entire world has seen Jesus sense he left this earth thousands of years ago. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Courtney11041987&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Courtney11041987 (page does not exist)">Courtney11041987</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Courtney11041987" title="User talk:Courtney11041987">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Courtney11041987-2019-02-05T18:47:00.000Z-Untitled" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:47, 5 February 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Courtney11041987-2019-02-05T18:47:00.000Z-Untitled"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Courtney11041987-2019-02-05T18:47:00.000Z-Untitled"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Two_potential_NPOV_bits?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?-2012-08-10T04:10:00.000Z"><span id="Two_potential_NPOV_bits.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?-2012-08-10T04:10:00.000Z"></span>Two potential NPOV bits?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?-2012-08-10T04:10:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Two potential NPOV bits?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-173.2.252.77-2012-08-10T04:10:00.000Z-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?"></span>Specifically the statement that it documents a trip to heaven, which makes it sound like that is something that undeniably happened and was documented, and the reference to the Blessed Virgin Mary, a specifically Catholic notion (The linked article is solely about Catholic views of Mary). Perhaps we should change it to simply say Virgin Mary and clarify the beginning? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/173.2.252.77" title="Special:Contributions/173.2.252.77">173.2.252.77</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:173.2.252.77&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:173.2.252.77 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-173.2.252.77-2012-08-10T04:10:00.000Z-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:10, 10 August 2012 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-173.2.252.77-2012-08-10T04:10:00.000Z-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-173.2.252.77-2012-08-10T04:10:00.000Z-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?"></span>The use of the name Virgin Mary is out of context because of Burpo be Protestant. Moreover may confuse anyone who reads, because it seems that they became Catholics. Would be more appropriate Mary (mother of Jesus). <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/187.3.140.155" title="Special:Contributions/187.3.140.155">187.3.140.155</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:187.3.140.155&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:187.3.140.155 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:41, 15 April 2013 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z-Two_potential_NPOV_bits?"></span> </p> <ul><li><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Paulmcdonald-2013-11-15T12:43:00.000Z-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z"></span>Comment</i> those appear to be minor editing issues rather than a violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>. I recommend that you <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SOFIXIT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SOFIXIT">fix it</a> and move on.--<a href="/wiki/User:Paulmcdonald" title="User:Paulmcdonald">Paul McDonald</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paulmcdonald" title="User talk:Paulmcdonald">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Paulmcdonald-2013-11-15T12:43:00.000Z-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:43, 15 November 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Paulmcdonald-2013-11-15T12:43:00.000Z-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Paulmcdonald-2013-11-15T12:43:00.000Z-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Taram-2015-01-16T17:21:00.000Z-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z"></span>Comment</i> Agreeing with <a href="/wiki/User:Paulmcdonald" title="User:Paulmcdonald">Paul McDonald</a> with clarification on the <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/173.2.252.77" title="Special:Contributions/173.2.252.77">173.2.252.77</a> comment. Protestants believe Mary existed and is the mother of Jesus, because it is in the New Testament. It is the term "blessed virgin" that can be problematic for some, but not all, Protestants. Item appears to have been corrected. <a href="/wiki/User:Taram" title="User:Taram">Taram</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Taram" title="User talk:Taram">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Taram-2015-01-16T17:21:00.000Z-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:21, 16 January 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Taram-2015-01-16T17:21:00.000Z-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Taram-2015-01-16T17:21:00.000Z-187.3.140.155-2013-04-15T00:41:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"></span>Hanging labels on Susan Jacoby<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Hanging labels on Susan Jacoby"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby"></span>I have twice removed some qualifying labels attached to <a href="/wiki/Susan_Jacoby" title="Susan Jacoby">Susan Jacoby</a>, saying she is an atheist and/or secularist. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heaven_Is_for_Real&diff=next&oldid=603601821">This</a> is the most recent such label, added by <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorEric" title="User:DoctorEric">DoctorEric</a> but without a cited source for the labels. Previously, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heaven_Is_for_Real&diff=603147016&oldid=602867881">an IP from Pennsylvania</a> labeled Jacoby an atheist, but he supplied source failed to include a positive statement about being an atheist. </p><p>I don't think Jacoby needs to be cut down, labeled, or qualified for the very negative review she gave. The review could have come from any person of any religion. <a href="/wiki/User:Binksternet" title="User:Binksternet">Binksternet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Binksternet" title="User talk:Binksternet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z-Hanging_labels_on_Susan_Jacoby"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:59:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"></span>A second hurdle for someone trying to label Jacoby: if you find a reference naming her a secularist or atheist, the book <i>Heaven Is for Real</i> should be mentioned as well. That is, Jacoby's belief system should be described along with her take on the book. <a href="/wiki/User:Binksternet" title="User:Binksternet">Binksternet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Binksternet" title="User talk:Binksternet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:59:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:59:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:59:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T04:05:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:59:00.000Z"></span>Jacoby's "belief system" and take on the book are found together here <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2011-04-21-burpo21_CV_N.htm">[1]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Badmintonhist" title="User:Badmintonhist">Badmintonhist</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Badmintonhist" title="User talk:Badmintonhist">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T04:05:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:05, 14 April 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T04:05:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T04:05:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T04:40:00.000Z-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T04:05:00.000Z"></span>Not really. Your cited source says, "But Susan Jacoby, who bills herself 'The Spirited Atheist' on the blog she writes for <i>On Faith</i> in <i>The Washington Post</i>, cuts to the chase. 'Only in America could a book like this be classified as non-fiction.'" Jacoby's column—it's a <a href="/wiki/Newsblog" class="mw-redirect" title="Newsblog">newsblog</a>, by the way, not just a blog—was called "The Spirited Atheist". She did not bill herself as such; it was simply the title of her column. <a href="/wiki/User:Binksternet" title="User:Binksternet">Binksternet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Binksternet" title="User talk:Binksternet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T04:40:00.000Z-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T04:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 14 April 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T04:40:00.000Z-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T04:05:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Binksternet-2014-04-14T04:40:00.000Z-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T04:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T05:30:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T04:40:00.000Z"></span>Would this be another group of folks <i>who somehow confused the title of her review of the book for her standing byline</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/susan-jacoby-talks-about-the-failures-and-needs-of-atheism-in-her-last-on-faith-column/">[2]</a>? Moreover, If you Google "Susan Jacoby/The Spirited Atheist" You get a listing of her columns supplied by WAPO. By the way, if we shouldn't label ("cut down"??) Jacoby as an atheist or secularist here why should we label or "cut down" Berean Call as a Christian Ministry? <a href="/wiki/User:Badmintonhist" title="User:Badmintonhist">Badmintonhist</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Badmintonhist" title="User talk:Badmintonhist">talk</a>) 05:30, 14 April 2014 (UTC) PS: Oh, here we go <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2011/12/28/american-atheists-must-define-themselves-not-be-defined-by-the-religious/11851">[3]</a>.<a href="/wiki/User:Badmintonhist" title="User:Badmintonhist">Badmintonhist</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Badmintonhist" title="User talk:Badmintonhist">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T05:30:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T04:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:36, 14 April 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T05:30:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T04:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Badmintonhist-2014-04-14T05:30:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T04:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DoctorEric-2014-05-05T17:52:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"></span>I find the original objection rather specious, for at least two reasons. First, the <a href="/wiki/Susan_Jacoby" title="Susan Jacoby">Susan Jacoby</a> page clearly states, "She is an atheist and a secularist." It also says, "In February 2010 she was named to the Freedom From Religion Foundation's Honorary Board of distinguished achievers. Also in 2010, she was awarded The Richard Dawkins Award by Atheist Alliance International." If these statements are not true, then significant edits of her page are in order. Second, if "hanging labels" on people is against Wikipedia policy - it's not, as far as I'm aware - then we also need to remove the other "labels" from the article, including "Christian pastor," "a Christian ministry," and "Author and pastor." Because a person's philosophy and world view color how they perceive and respond to things, it's necessary to be honest about who people are to put their comments into perspective. The fact that both Christians and atheists have problems with the book is more informative than just listing a couple of people who didn't like it. I also object to the idea that identifying a person as a secularist or an atheist is a "cut down". I doubt Miss Jacoby considers "atheist" to be a pejorative term - Why should Wikipedia editors treat it as such?</dd> <dd>On the subject of her comments about the book, I was troubled to see that the latest edit contains a highly paraphrased version of what she said. While not wholly inaccurate in conveying her comments, it is inferior to a full, unedited quote, IMO (based on most Wikipedia article I've ever seen).</dd> <dd>I am going to restore the "labels" (adjectives) to reflect Susan Jacoby's self-identified belief system. I am also going to restore the quote to what she actually said. If this seems unacceptable to any editors, I recommend turning to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">other members of the Wikipedia community</a> to settle this, rather than engaging in an edit-war. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorEric" title="User:DoctorEric">DoctorEric</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorEric" title="User talk:DoctorEric">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-DoctorEric-2014-05-05T17:52:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:52, 5 May 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DoctorEric-2014-05-05T17:52:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DoctorEric-2014-05-05T17:52:00.000Z-Binksternet-2014-04-14T01:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DoctorEric-2014-06-25T18:04:00.000Z-DoctorEric-2014-05-05T17:52:00.000Z"></span>I was disappointed to see that my edits, which (I think) were clearly explained and defended in May (see my post above), were removed in favor of the previous, highly paraphrased quotes and obfuscating language.</dd> <dd>Please take note of the last paragraph of my post above. If anyone truly feels that my edits are unfairly "hanging labels" on Susan Jacoby or inaccurately representing what she wrote, he needs to take his grievances to the Wikipedia community for dispute resolution rather than engaging in an edit war. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorEric" title="User:DoctorEric">DoctorEric</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorEric" title="User talk:DoctorEric">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-DoctorEric-2014-06-25T18:04:00.000Z-DoctorEric-2014-05-05T17:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 25 June 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DoctorEric-2014-06-25T18:04:00.000Z-DoctorEric-2014-05-05T17:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DoctorEric-2014-06-25T18:04:00.000Z-DoctorEric-2014-05-05T17:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links-2014-04-15T14:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links-2014-04-15T14:42:00.000Z"></span>External links<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links-2014-04-15T14:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: External links"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Deselms-2014-04-15T14:42:00.000Z-External_links"></span>As nearly as I can tell, the "<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://art-soulworks.com">Jesus Prince of Peace Official Website</a>" external link is to a website which has nothing to do with the book or movie other than that it just sells stuff which happens to be related to the three big Christian books and movies, of late, <i>Heaven is for Real</i> being just one of them. How is this not, in effect <b>spam</b>? I'm removing it; and anyone who wants to put it back should first please post, here, why.<br/> <b><a href="/wiki/User:Deselms" title="User:Deselms">Gregg L. DesElms (Username: Deselms)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deselms" title="User talk:Deselms">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Deselms-2014-04-15T14:42:00.000Z-External_links" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:42, 15 April 2014 (UTC)</a></b><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Deselms-2014-04-15T14:42:00.000Z-External_links"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Deselms-2014-04-15T14:42:00.000Z-External_links"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rlslemmer-2022-02-27T06:10:00.000Z-External_links"></span>In the book it is mentioned that Akiane's painting of the "Prince of Peace" was the first image of Jesus that Colton said looked like it was right, in other words that this was the way Jesus looked in heaven. <span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Rlslemmer&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Rlslemmer (page does not exist)">Rlslemmer</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rlslemmer&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Rlslemmer (page does not exist)">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rlslemmer" title="Special:Contributions/Rlslemmer">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Rlslemmer-2022-02-27T06:10:00.000Z-External_links" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:10, 27 February 2022 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rlslemmer-2022-02-27T06:10:00.000Z-External_links"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rlslemmer-2022-02-27T06:10:00.000Z-External_links"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Extra_sources" data-mw-thread-id="h-Extra_sources-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Extra_sources-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z"></span>Extra sources<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Extra_sources-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Extra sources"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Finarfen-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z-Extra_sources"></span>Here's two more sources to add to the criticism section, if anyone wants to work them in or draw from them. I felt the section did not reflect the criticism the book has received from a spectrum of American Christianity, but don't have the opportunity at the moment to do more on it. I did add a brief sentence and link to a review by <a href="/wiki/John_MacArthur" class="mw-disambig" title="John MacArthur">John MacArthur</a>. </p><p><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2014/01/24/i-dont-have-to-read-the-book-or-see-the-movie-to-know-heaven-is-real/?comments">http://thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/tgc/2014/01/24/i-dont-have-to-read-the-book-or-see-the-movie-to-know-heaven-is-real/?comments</a> <br/> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://concordiatheology.org/2011/05/heaven-is-for-real/">http://concordiatheology.org/2011/05/heaven-is-for-real/</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Finarfen" title="User:Finarfen">Finarfen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Finarfen" title="User talk:Finarfen">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Finarfen-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z-Extra_sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:10, 19 April 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Finarfen-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z-Extra_sources"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Finarfen-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z-Extra_sources"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DoctorEric-2014-07-09T00:24:00.000Z-Finarfen-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z"></span>You are correct that there are more criticisms of the book by the Christian community. You may add the ones you mention if you wish, but I think that it's adequate to leave the criticism section as is (2 criticisms by Christian sources, 1 by an atheist), as it shows that the book's claims are not universally accepted by either camp. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, but that doesn't mean that it needs to provide an exhaustive listing of all opinions on every topic - sometimes an overview is enough, and I think that's the case here. <a href="/wiki/User:DoctorEric" title="User:DoctorEric">DoctorEric</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DoctorEric" title="User talk:DoctorEric">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-DoctorEric-2014-07-09T00:24:00.000Z-Finarfen-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:24, 9 July 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DoctorEric-2014-07-09T00:24:00.000Z-Finarfen-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DoctorEric-2014-07-09T00:24:00.000Z-Finarfen-2014-04-19T06:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Non_fiction?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Non_fiction?-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z"><span id="Non_fiction.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Non_fiction?-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z"></span>Non fiction?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Non_fiction?-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Non fiction?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-171.96.1.144-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-content tmbox-not-a-forum" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/40px-Ambox_important.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/60px-Ambox_important.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b4/Ambox_important.svg/80px-Ambox_important.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="40" data-file-height="40"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is <strong><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a></strong> for general discussion about <a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Heaven Is for Real">Heaven Is for Real</a>. Any such comments <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#EDIT" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">may be removed</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Refactoring_talk_pages" title="Wikipedia:Refactoring talk pages">refactored</a>. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. You may wish to ask factual questions about <a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Heaven Is for Real">Heaven Is for Real</a> at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk">Reference desk</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>The main article says: "It became the No. 1 best-selling non-fiction paperback." About 5 out of 6 people in the world would say it was fiction. The boy has no evidence whatsoever to back up anything he says, so it is certainly not fact. It is a book cashing in on the fact that America is a country where televangelists made BILLIONS telling people what is now accepted as lies, about God talking to them and miracles, etc. So many gullible people, and so many more willing to take their money. (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/171.96.1.144" title="Special:Contributions/171.96.1.144">171.96.1.144</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:171.96.1.144&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:171.96.1.144 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-171.96.1.144-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z-Non_fiction?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 9 January 2015 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-171.96.1.144-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-171.96.1.144-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Elizium23-2015-01-10T03:47:00.000Z-171.96.1.144-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z"></span>We follow what is documented by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">reliable secondary sources</a>. The publishing world classified this book as non-fiction, and so Wikipedia follows suit. I would say that it relates real-life occurrences surrounding the visions and therefore is not a complete novelization or fictionalized account of something. <a href="/wiki/User:Elizium23" title="User:Elizium23">Elizium23</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Elizium23" title="User talk:Elizium23">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Elizium23-2015-01-10T03:47:00.000Z-171.96.1.144-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:47, 10 January 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Elizium23-2015-01-10T03:47:00.000Z-171.96.1.144-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Elizium23-2015-01-10T03:47:00.000Z-171.96.1.144-2015-01-09T23:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z-Elizium23-2015-01-10T03:47:00.000Z"></span>"non-fiction" is used by NYT best-seller list, which repeats untrammelled the claims of the publisher. ATTRIBUTEPOV can be used to describe POV assertions of fact. The criticism section summarises issues people take with the book, that should be enough. <a href="/wiki/User:Aronzak" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Aronzak">-- Aronzak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aronzak" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Aronzak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z-Elizium23-2015-01-10T03:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:22, 16 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z-Elizium23-2015-01-10T03:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z-Elizium23-2015-01-10T03:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jororo05-2015-02-16T01:11:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"></span>"About 5 out of 6 people in the world would say it was fiction." You're claiming that over 83% of the world population is atheist? Or, more precisely, "about" 83% of the world doesn't believe in heaven, paradise, or some such thing/place? I really doubt that's anywhere near accurate. For someone who seems interested in "facts," that's a pretty broad assumption. Of course, if you REALLY had faith in your presumptions, you would A) not feel compelled to belittle people who disagree with them, and B) get a user account and sign your posts. I feel your obvious POV gets more than enough time on this page since the single largest section is "Criticism." Cheers! <a href="/wiki/User:Jororo05" title="User:Jororo05">Jororo05</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jororo05" title="User talk:Jororo05">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Jororo05-2015-02-16T01:11:00.000Z-Non_fiction?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:11, 16 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jororo05-2015-02-16T01:11:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jororo05-2015-02-16T01:11:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z-Jororo05-2015-02-16T01:11:00.000Z"></span>1. Please avoid <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPA">personal attacks</a>. 2. Wikipedia is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTFORUM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTFORUM">not a forum</a> for general discussion. Beth Malarkey's comments to <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20150117235901/http://www.gty.org/Blog/B150116/setting-the-record-straight">John MacArthur</a> on <a href="/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Came_Back_from_Heaven" title="The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven">The Boy Who Came Back from Heaven</a> are a good representation of how Christians closer to the Christian publishing industry see things. Criticism is entirely appropriate for this article.<a href="/wiki/User:Aronzak" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Aronzak">-- Aronzak</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aronzak" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Aronzak">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z-Jororo05-2015-02-16T01:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:22, 16 February 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z-Jororo05-2015-02-16T01:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z-Jororo05-2015-02-16T01:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:16:00.000Z-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z"></span>Its still fiction. The kid admitted he made it up. Thanks --<a href="/wiki/User:RThompson82" title="User:RThompson82">RThompson82</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RThompson82" title="User talk:RThompson82">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:16:00.000Z-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:16, 4 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:16:00.000Z-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:16:00.000Z-Aronzak-2015-02-16T07:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrewa-20241128043300-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:16:00.000Z"></span>Did he indeed? Where was this reported? <a href="/wiki/User:Andrewa" title="User:Andrewa">Andrewa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrewa" title="User talk:Andrewa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Andrewa-20241128043300-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 28 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrewa-20241128043300-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrewa-20241128043300-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:16:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-101.174.142.103-2015-02-16T07:44:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"></span>At least 80% of the worlds population are believers of one kind or another. However this book is non fiction because it describes the con that actually occurred, the contents of the story are complete fiction, which the child now admits, but the selling of the story is very real. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/101.174.142.103" title="Special:Contributions/101.174.142.103">101.174.142.103</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:101.174.142.103&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:101.174.142.103 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-101.174.142.103-2015-02-16T07:44:00.000Z-Non_fiction?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:44, 16 February 2015 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-101.174.142.103-2015-02-16T07:44:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-101.174.142.103-2015-02-16T07:44:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wordreader-2015-05-27T04:04:00.000Z-101.174.142.103-2015-02-16T07:44:00.000Z"></span>In support of the anonymous commenter, most people in the world are atheists, religious non-Christians, or Christians who do not subscribe to this particular flavor of Christianity.</li> <li>However, it is Malarkey who has disavowed his book about visiting heaven. According to this article, as of January 2015, Burpo still stands by this book. Does the anonymous commenter have updated information on that? Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Wordreader" title="User:Wordreader">Wordreader</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wordreader" title="User talk:Wordreader">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Wordreader-2015-05-27T04:04:00.000Z-101.174.142.103-2015-02-16T07:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:04, 27 May 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wordreader-2015-05-27T04:04:00.000Z-101.174.142.103-2015-02-16T07:44:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wordreader-2015-05-27T04:04:00.000Z-101.174.142.103-2015-02-16T07:44:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z-Wordreader-2015-05-27T04:04:00.000Z"></span>Hey honey. The kid admitted he made it up. Don't edit on wikipedia. Ever. --<a href="/wiki/User:RThompson82" title="User:RThompson82">RThompson82</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RThompson82" title="User talk:RThompson82">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z-Wordreader-2015-05-27T04:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:11, 4 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z-Wordreader-2015-05-27T04:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z-Wordreader-2015-05-27T04:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Mysterious_El_Willstro-2016-08-31T03:31:00.000Z-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z"></span>Not according to this: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.christiantoday.com/article/carlton.burpo.stands.by.heaven.is.for.real/46173.htm">http://www.christiantoday.com/article/carlton.burpo.stands.by.heaven.is.for.real/46173.htm</a>. You're thinking of Alex Malarkey, a different kid who <i>did</i> retract his story. <a href="/wiki/User:The_Mysterious_El_Willstro" title="User:The Mysterious El Willstro">The Mysterious El Willstro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Mysterious_El_Willstro" title="User talk:The Mysterious El Willstro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-The_Mysterious_El_Willstro-2016-08-31T03:31:00.000Z-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:31, 31 August 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Mysterious_El_Willstro-2016-08-31T03:31:00.000Z-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Mysterious_El_Willstro-2016-08-31T03:31:00.000Z-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-THX1136-20230812234200-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z"></span>RThompson: Do you have a reliable source for this information? If so please consider doing an appropriate edit to the article. <a href="/wiki/User:THX1136" title="User:THX1136">THX1136</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:THX1136" title="User talk:THX1136">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-THX1136-20230812234200-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:42, 12 August 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-THX1136-20230812234200-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-THX1136-20230812234200-RThompson82-2015-12-04T09:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-58.111.120.18-2016-08-31T04:05:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"></span>I just made some prose changes to the passage in question - without affecting the meaning, I think. <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heaven_Is_for_Real&diff=736994069&oldid=735092923">[4]</a> Feel free to undo or amend. </p><p>Regarding the "non-fiction" question: That is the name of the category the NYT put it in. So that's what we report. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/58.111.120.18" title="Special:Contributions/58.111.120.18">58.111.120.18</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:58.111.120.18" title="User talk:58.111.120.18">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-58.111.120.18-2016-08-31T04:05:00.000Z-Non_fiction?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:05, 31 August 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-58.111.120.18-2016-08-31T04:05:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-58.111.120.18-2016-08-31T04:05:00.000Z-Non_fiction?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified-2017-11-01T03:15:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified-2017-11-01T03:15:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified-2017-11-01T03:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-11-01T03:15:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just modified one external link on <a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Heaven Is for Real">Heaven Is for Real</a>. 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I speculate that whoever added the Malarkey comment thought the Irish concept of lies being malarkey is his or her sick twisted joke taking away from the grace shed upon this child. Please investigate the intent and appropriateness of the claimed fraudulent, possibly implied competing work on Christian revelation. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2600:1700:F3B0:A4F0:6DD8:3C9:23E4:DC6C" title="Special:Contributions/2600:1700:F3B0:A4F0:6DD8:3C9:23E4:DC6C">2600:1700:F3B0:A4F0:6DD8:3C9:23E4:DC6C</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2600:1700:F3B0:A4F0:6DD8:3C9:23E4:DC6C&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2600:1700:F3B0:A4F0:6DD8:3C9:23E4:DC6C (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-2600:1700:F3B0:A4F0:6DD8:3C9:23E4:DC6C-2019-02-24T02:09:00.000Z-Non_Sequitur" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:09, 24 February 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2600:1700:F3B0:A4F0:6DD8:3C9:23E4:DC6C-2019-02-24T02:09:00.000Z-Non_Sequitur"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2600:1700:F3B0:A4F0:6DD8:3C9:23E4:DC6C-2019-02-24T02:09:00.000Z-Non_Sequitur"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Contact_info?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Contact_info?-2022-02-27T06:15:00.000Z"><span id="Contact_info.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Contact_info?-2022-02-27T06:15:00.000Z"></span>Contact info?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Contact_info?-2022-02-27T06:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Contact info?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rlslemmer-2022-02-27T06:15:00.000Z-Contact_info?"></span>Is there a way to contact Colton or Todd Burpo to ask them a question? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Rlslemmer&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Rlslemmer (page does not exist)">Rlslemmer</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rlslemmer&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Rlslemmer (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Rlslemmer-2022-02-27T06:15:00.000Z-Contact_info?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:15, 27 February 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rlslemmer-2022-02-27T06:15:00.000Z-Contact_info?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rlslemmer-2022-02-27T06:15:00.000Z-Contact_info?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Requested_move_10_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-Requested_move_10_November_2024-20241110214700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Requested_move_10_November_2024-20241110214700"></span>Requested move 10 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Requested_move_10_November_2024-20241110214700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Requested move 10 November 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span id="requestedmovetag"></span><span id="reqmovetag"></span> </p> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theparties-20241110214700-Requested_move_10_November_2024"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-move" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/36px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png" decoding="async" width="36" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/54px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/72px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="36" data-file-height="40"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>It has been proposed in this section that <a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Heaven Is for Real">Heaven Is for Real</a> be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Moving_a_page" title="Wikipedia:Moving a page">renamed and moved</a> to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Heaven_Is_for_Real_(book)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Heaven Is for Real (book) (page does not exist)">Heaven Is for Real (book)</a>.</b><br/> <hr/> <p>A <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:RMCD_bot">bot</a></span> will list this discussion on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">requested moves</a> current discussions <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Current_discussions" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves/Current discussions">subpage</a> within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Closing_instructions" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions">closing instructions</a>). Please base arguments on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_titles#Deciding_on_an_article_title" title="Wikipedia:Article titles">article title policy</a>, and keep discussion <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Too_long;_didn%27t_read" title="Wikipedia:Too long; didn't read">succinct</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">civil</a>. </p> <hr/> <small style="line-height:1.2em;"><i>Please use <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Requested_move" title="Template:Requested move">subst:requested move</a>}}</code>. Do <b>not</b> use <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Requested_move/dated" title="Template:Requested move/dated">requested move/dated</a>}}</code> directly.</i> </small><div class="floatright"><small style="line-height:1.2em;"><i>Links:</i> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/move&page=Heaven+Is+for+Real">current log</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/move&page=Heaven+Is+for+Real+%28book%29">target log</a> • <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MovePage&wpOldTitle=Heaven+Is+for+Real&wpNewTitle=Heaven+Is+for+Real+%28book%29&wpReason=%5B%5BWikipedia%3ARequested+moves%7Crequested+move%5D%5D%3B+see+%5B%5BTalk%3AHeaven+Is+for+Real+%28book%29%5D%5D&wpMovetalk=1">direct move</a></small></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <p><a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Heaven Is for Real">Heaven Is for Real</a> → <a href="/w/index.php?title=Heaven_Is_for_Real_(book)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Heaven Is for Real (book) (page does not exist)">Heaven Is for Real (book)</a> – There is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOPRIMARYTOPIC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOPRIMARYTOPIC">WP:NOPRIMARYTOPIC</a> because of the <a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real_(film)" title="Heaven Is for Real (film)">film</a>. <a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Heaven Is for Real">Heaven Is for Real</a> needs to be a disambiguation page. Open to be moved to <a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real:_A_Little_Boy%27s_Astounding_Story_of_His_Trip_to_Heaven_and_Back" class="mw-redirect" title="Heaven Is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back">Heaven Is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back</a> per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SUBTITLE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SUBTITLE">WP:SUBTITLE</a>. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Theparties&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Theparties (page does not exist)">Theparties</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theparties" title="User talk:Theparties">talk</a>) 21:47, 10 November 2024 (UTC) <small>— <i><b>Relisting.</b></i> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reading_Beans" title="User talk:Reading Beans"><span style="color:#333"><b>Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia</b></span></a> 09:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</small> <small>— <i><b>Relisting.</b></i> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reading_Beans" title="User talk:Reading Beans"><span style="color:#333"><b>Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Theparties-20241110214700-Requested_move_10_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:19, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theparties-20241110214700-Requested_move_10_November_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theparties-20241110214700-Requested_move_10_November_2024"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Crouch,_Swale-20241111180900-Theparties-20241110214700"></span>The film is based on the book but the film has 10,864 views compared with only 4,596[<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Heaven_Is_for_Real%7CHeaven_Is_for_Real_(film)">[5]</a>] for the novel. <b><a href="/wiki/User:Crouch,_Swale" title="User:Crouch, Swale"><span style="color:Green">Crouch, Swale</span></a></b> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crouch,_Swale" title="User talk:Crouch, Swale"><span style="color:Blue">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Crouch,_Swale-20241111180900-Theparties-20241110214700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:09, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Crouch,_Swale-20241111180900-Theparties-20241110214700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Crouch,_Swale-20241111180900-Theparties-20241110214700"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Scharb-20241114193800-Theparties-20241110214700"></span>Alternative</b> merge <a href="/wiki/Heaven_is_for_Real_(film)" class="mw-redirect" title="Heaven is for Real (film)">Heaven is for Real (film)</a> into <a href="/wiki/Heaven_is_for_Real" class="mw-redirect" title="Heaven is for Real">Heaven is for Real</a> page, placing current content under "Novel" header and new content under "Film" <a href="/wiki/User:Scharb" title="User:Scharb">Scharb</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Scharb" title="User talk:Scharb">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Scharb-20241114193800-Theparties-20241110214700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:38, 14 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Scharb-20241114193800-Theparties-20241110214700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Scharb-20241114193800-Theparties-20241110214700"></span> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Theparties-20241115002200-Scharb-20241114193800"></span>Comment</b>. The film is notable on its own as the second-best performing Christian film of all time. The book is notable as the source material for the film. Both satisfy the requirements for an article. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Theparties&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Theparties (page does not exist)">Theparties</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Theparties" title="User talk:Theparties">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Theparties-20241115002200-Scharb-20241114193800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:22, 15 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Theparties-20241115002200-Scharb-20241114193800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Theparties-20241115002200-Scharb-20241114193800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrewa-20241127002600-Theparties-20241115002200"></span>According to the article the book has sold more than ten <b>million</b> copies, and that claim is sourced. While <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(books)" title="Wikipedia:Notability (books)">Wikipedia:Notability (books)</a> does not mention publication history I think it should, just to save time in discussions such as this. If we haven't found reliable secondary sources for a book that sold more than ten million copies, have we really looked hard enough? I think the book is notable in its own right, and just as well as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_is_not_inherited" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Notability is not inherited">notability is not inherited</a> (OK that's about deletion but is relevant to the point made here). <a href="/wiki/User:Andrewa" title="User:Andrewa">Andrewa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrewa" title="User talk:Andrewa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Andrewa-20241127002600-Theparties-20241115002200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrewa-20241127002600-Theparties-20241115002200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrewa-20241127002600-Theparties-20241115002200"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andrewa-20241127002800-Scharb-20241114193800"></span>Note that this book is non-fiction. It's not a novel. <a href="/wiki/User:Andrewa" title="User:Andrewa">Andrewa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andrewa" title="User talk:Andrewa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Andrewa-20241127002800-Scharb-20241114193800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:28, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andrewa-20241127002800-Scharb-20241114193800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andrewa-20241127002800-Scharb-20241114193800"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><small><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reading_Beans-20241118095200-Theparties-20241110214700"></span>Relisting comment</b>: There are divided opinions. Relisting for more participation. Best, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reading_Beans" title="User talk:Reading Beans"><span style="color:#333"><b>Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Reading_Beans-20241118095200-Theparties-20241110214700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:52, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reading_Beans-20241118095200-Theparties-20241110214700"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reading_Beans-20241118095200-Theparties-20241110214700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Reading_Beans-20241126022000-Theparties-20241110214700"></span>Note: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Literature" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Literature">WikiProject Literature</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Death" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Death">WikiProject Death</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Christianity/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard">WikiProject Christianity/Noticeboard</a> have been notified of this discussion. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Reading_Beans" title="User talk:Reading Beans"><span style="color:#333"><b>Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia</b></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Reading_Beans-20241126022000-Theparties-20241110214700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:20, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Reading_Beans-20241126022000-Theparties-20241110214700"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Reading_Beans-20241126022000-Theparties-20241110214700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PARAKANYAA-20241126022500-Theparties-20241110214700"></span>Move</b> as suggested. Book is the source material but film gets more views - not overwhelmingly enough that it is the primary topic though. Subtitle is a bit too lengthy. <a href="/wiki/User:PARAKANYAA" title="User:PARAKANYAA">PARAKANYAA</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PARAKANYAA" title="User talk:PARAKANYAA">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-PARAKANYAA-20241126022500-Theparties-20241110214700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:25, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PARAKANYAA-20241126022500-Theparties-20241110214700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PARAKANYAA-20241126022500-Theparties-20241110214700"></span></dd> <dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tiggerjay-20241126063200-Theparties-20241110214700"></span>Oppose</b> - while this one is a bit tricky with the page counts alone making it appear that the film is more popular than the book that it is based upon. Based on digging a bit deeper I believe that the book is still the PT for this title. Here are a few reasons: (1) despite the film qualifier a large number of people who view the film also click through to the book, contributing to 20% of the page views for the book; (2) A small number of page views come from the book to the film; (3) From a long standing position, it wasn't until 2022 that the film became more popular; (4) more inbound links to the book; (5) various internet searches provide a good mix of both as search results. Technically I would say there is no PTOPIC here, but since both articles are so closely related, doing a full DAB seems inappropriate, and there is no risk of confusion to the viewer at what they're looking or that the other title exists. Making the movie the primary also doesn't land quite right either, even though momentarily it (2 out of the last 10 years) it has been a bit more popular. <a href="/wiki/User:Tiggerjay" title="User:Tiggerjay"><span style="color:DarkOrange"><b>Tigger</b></span><b>Jay</b></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tiggerjay" title="User talk:Tiggerjay"><span style="font-size:85%;color:Purple">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Tiggerjay-20241126063200-Theparties-20241110214700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tiggerjay-20241126063200-Theparties-20241110214700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tiggerjay-20241126063200-Theparties-20241110214700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tiggerjay-20241126063400-Tiggerjay-20241126063200"></span>There is also ton of overlap so I wouldn't be opposed to <b>merging</b> them together under the book. <a href="/wiki/User:Tiggerjay" title="User:Tiggerjay"><span style="color:DarkOrange"><b>Tigger</b></span><b>Jay</b></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tiggerjay" title="User talk:Tiggerjay"><span style="font-size:85%;color:Purple">(talk)</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Tiggerjay-20241126063400-Tiggerjay-20241126063200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:34, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tiggerjay-20241126063400-Tiggerjay-20241126063200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tiggerjay-20241126063400-Tiggerjay-20241126063200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Roman_Spinner-20241126215300-Theparties-20241110214700"></span>Support</b> per nomination and PARAKANYAA as well as per comment by Crouch, Swale. Would also <b>support</b> the alternative option proposed in the nomination — <i><a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real" title="Heaven Is for Real">Heaven Is for Real</a></i> → <i><a href="/wiki/Heaven_Is_for_Real:_A_Little_Boy%27s_Astounding_Story_of_His_Trip_to_Heaven_and_Back" class="mw-redirect" title="Heaven Is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back">Heaven Is for Real: A Little Boy's Astounding Story of His Trip to Heaven and Back</a></i>. —<a href="/wiki/User:Roman_Spinner" title="User:Roman Spinner"><b>Roman Spinner</b></a> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Roman_Spinner" title="User talk:Roman Spinner">(talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Roman_Spinner" title="Special:Contributions/Roman Spinner">contribs)</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real#c-Roman_Spinner-20241126215300-Theparties-20241110214700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Roman_Spinner-20241126215300-Theparties-20241110214700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Roman_Spinner-20241126215300-Theparties-20241110214700"></span></li></ul>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&oldid=1259983606">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heaven_Is_for_Real&oldid=1259983606</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_Christianity_articles" title="Category:C-Class Christianity articles">C-Class Christianity articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Christianity_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Christianity articles">Mid-importance Christianity articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Christianity_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Christianity articles">WikiProject Christianity articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_Literature_articles" title="Category:C-Class Literature articles">C-Class Literature articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Literature_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Literature articles">Low-importance Literature articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_Death_articles" title="Category:C-Class Death articles">C-Class Death articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Death_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Death articles">Mid-importance Death articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Requested_moves" title="Category:Requested moves">Requested moves</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 28 November 2024, at 04:33<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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