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has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile669605"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139737&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=139737_1520531418.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139737&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">nemaara</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Inactive Developer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=139737&sr=posts&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5">354</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content669605"> <h3 class="first"> <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669605&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669605">1.17 (and future) SP content development plans</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=669605&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669605&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669605" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139737&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">nemaara</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-11-29T00:33:58+00:00">November 29th, 2021, 12:33 am</time> </p> <div class="content">Hi all,<br> <br> I'm putting some ideas for future 1.x content (mainly SP) development plans here. This thread's purpose is mainly to cover revisions to existing campaigns, not to cover any new additions to mainline lore on the SP or MP side. I'll list them in order of my personal priority, although that can change around depending on what people think. I put mainly SP because some redesigned campaigns could double as MP if we design them properly.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Eastern Invasion/Delfador's Memoirs</strong><br> <br> One of the older campaigns that needs a good amount of work is Eastern Invasion. With it having Mal Ravanal as the main threat and destroying much of Weldyn, I find it quite similar to Delfador's Memoirs from a storyline standpoint, where Iliah-Malal is more or less another version of Mal Ravanal. I'm hoping to revise these campaigns and combine them into a single one slightly prior to HttT to both raise the quality and not have two long campaigns with rather similar storylines and even factions. Astrid had some interest in this project as well, so I'm thinking this one would be the first one to work on. <br> <br> If we revise this, we can also revise <strong class="text-strong">The South Guard</strong> to fit in with this timeline, placing it just prior to the new campaign and have a more natural progression in storyline throughout the campaigns.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Son of the Black Eye</strong><br> <br> Another older campaign that plays pretty decently, but could use some modernization, especially on the gameplay side. An interesting idea that was brought up was a sort of "tech tree" for Kapou'e, where he gains perk points that benefit his army or economy as he progresses along the campaign.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Northern Rebirth</strong><br> <br> A campaign that has rather divisive opinions on it. While some of the criticisms on it are certainly valid, I think it fulfills a certain purpose in our campaign lineup and I'd rather not entirely lose the tone of the campaign even if it sometimes feels out of place. Still, it has some issues that I think would merit revision. I think it might make sense to absorb <strong class="text-strong">The Hammer of Thursagan</strong> into a revised NR since THoT currently is a rather small related subplot and it could be merged with the current Malifor subplot in NR. <br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">A Tale of Two Brothers</strong><br> <br> This campaign could potentially function well as a 2p MP campaign to replace LoW MP (see below). It would require reworking of the campaign, though. <br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Legend of Wesmere</strong><br> <br> A campaign that was modified to be MP but which kind of broke it. At some point we probably need to remove the MP aspect, but I'd only feel comfortable doing that after we add a proper MP campaign (not WC) to the campaign lineup, which motivates the AToTB revision above. <br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Under the Burning Suns</strong><br> <br> One of my personal favorite campaigns, but just needing some storyline and dialogue touchups, possibly some improvements in gameplay to the later scenarios. I think knyghtmare has some ideas to spruce up the final scenario.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Heir to the Throne</strong><br> <br> The oldest campaign. It's pretty okay as it is, just needs some modernization.<br> <br> That covers most of the campaigns that I'm currently thinking of, please feel free to comment on others you think might need help. I'll now cover some of the faction related lore goals that these revisions might target.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Orcs</strong><br> <br> I'd like to give orcs (as a faction) more depth than they currently have. This would involve them having a more diverse (lore-wise, not gameplay) set of clans with different characteristics (some more aggressive, some not), put more detail on their relationship with goblins, and introduce female orcs as shamans with a specified role in their society. <br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Elves</strong><br> <br> Most of the revised lore for elves went in 1.16, but some of the differences between their enclaves (Wesmere and Lintanir especially) would be nice to actually show in campaigns. Same thing for the units, the specified role for the druid line and sylphs is not of combatants in their society, so it's less likely that they would participate in battles. It'd be nice to try to show that in campaigns. There wouldn't necessarily be none, just much less than we currently have (especially with some of the as aggressors in some scenarios). <br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Undead</strong><br> <br> Same thing as above, I currently have down higher level spirits as harder to control, so it would require a lich of quite some power to be able to use them (regular ghosts not included). Liches also probably should be rarer and more of a boss-like encounter rather than the random enemy encounter they currently are in caves and swamps. This way, when we see a powerful lich in a campaign like Mal Ravanal, it'll really emphasize their uniqueness.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Humans</strong><br> <br> For humans I'm thinking of emphasizing the concept of city-states more, where "Wesnoth" is more of a coalition of powerful cities with Weldyn at their heart. These cities would be more (or less) allied with each other at times (so enemies in the HttT era, but mostly allies otherwise) and Wesnoth is the name given to the territories that these cities span. In particular, this would mean cultural and stylistic differences between Elensefar, Weldyn, Westin (and Tath, Dan Tonk, Carcyn). This means that they would each be powerful cities in their own right and would tend to have similar military and cultural power (although this would sometimes be skewed depending on the time period).<br> <br> Wesnoth's border is the Great River. By the time of NR (but probably still in HttT and even earlier), there are probably some settlements north of the Great River. It would be possible to add some of these in a revised NR, but these would not be part of the Wesnoth empire. <br> <br> Please feel free to leave comments and/or ask for details, I can edit this to add more info as needed.</div> <div id="sig669605" class="signature"><a href="https://www.patreon.com/nemaara/" class="postlink">My patreon</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p669606" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile669606"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=117207&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=117207_1245842413.png" width="96" height="96" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=117207&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #D52929;" class="username-coloured">Wedge009</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Developer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=117207&sr=posts&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5">19</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> June 24th, 2009, 11:17 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Sydney, Australia</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content669606"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669606&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669606">Re: 1.17 (and future) SP content development plans</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=669606&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669606&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669606" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=117207&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #D52929;" class="username-coloured">Wedge009</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-11-29T01:52:25+00:00">November 29th, 2021, 1:52 am</time> </p> <div class="content">I can see the similarities between Eastern Invasion and Delfador's Memoirs. The latter is obviously to set-up Delfador as a mage of great repute, but I thought in the grand over-arching story of Wesnoth Eastern Invasion was supposed to precede the reconstruction or the 'Silver Age' of Wesnoth, following the 'Golden Age' of Li'sar and Konrad's reign. If the two are combined I suppose that means a substantial change to the grand lore of Wesnoth?<br> <br> As an orcish sovereign, I recall Kapou'e is already something of a distinct unit as sovereigns are rare - don't recall seeing many of them besides him in the SP campaigns. But of course, making him even more distinguished with game-play elements like a 'tech tree' could make things more interesting.<br> <br> I don't mind the light-hearted tone of Northern Rebirth - quite like it actually given its difficulty - and I think it helps set it apart. I'm not sure how combining it with The Hammer of Thursagan would work, though. Granted THoT is a relatively brief, stand-alone dwarf vs undead adventure, it introduces the concepts of loremasters to set it apart (though its current 1.16 iteration seems more subdued than what I remember from earlier versions). I know there's the reference to Lord Protector Tallin at the end.<br> <br> After the introductory campaigns of An Orcish Incursion, A Tale of Two Brothers, and The South Guard, Heir to the Throne is probably what drew me into the lore of Wesnoth when I first started way back in version 1.4. I hope it doesn't change too much, as you've suggested.<br> <br> Less aggressive orcs are rare - I can only recall the Northern Alliance representative encountered in The Hammer of Thursagan. It would be nice to see more co-operative/constructive orcs in other campaigns, though I understand it's hard as, next to undead, they're usually the go-to 'bad guys'.<br> <br> My understanding of the lore as it currently stands at 1.16.1 is that human settlements north of the Great River are not really under the jurisdiction or influence of Wesnoth. But otherwise the concept of city-states is interesting even though I suppose humans are already the most diverse race in the game (as seems to parallel other stories/universes, given that, as humans, we usually relate to human factions more). I think having a better idea of where you want to go with this may help with the development of other campaigns aiming to join the official roster.<br> <br> Edit: Where are we up to with respect to a dunefolk-oriented campaign? I remember there was some discussion of candidates a while back but nothing seemed to come of it (yet). Aside from drakes (which is a WIP), I think they're the only ones lacking significant representation in SP. Not sure how easy it would be to have a Saurian and/or Naga campaign nor if their units are strong enough to support one on their own - and aquatic environments seem less diverse than land/air-based locales anyway.<br> <br> Edit 2: Sorry, disregard edit1 - understand this is not intended to discuss potential new content.</div> <div id="sig669606" class="signature">Soli Deo Gloria</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p669608" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile669608"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139737&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=139737_1520531418.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139737&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">nemaara</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Inactive Developer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=139737&sr=posts&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5">354</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> May 31st, 2015, 2:13 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content669608"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669608&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669608">Re: 1.17 (and future) SP content development plans</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=669608&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669608&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669608" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139737&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #AA4444;" class="username-coloured">nemaara</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-11-29T06:03:57+00:00">November 29th, 2021, 6:03 am</time> </p> <div class="content">Just quickly, Astrid and I talked about it and we probably want to have Dunefolk be a major part of the new DM/EI so they probably would be included there. About their merging, the "Silver Age" isn't explored in mainline to begin with, so placing EI there in the timeline seems less important than bringing up the actual campaign quality to me.</div> <div id="sig669608" class="signature"><a href="https://www.patreon.com/nemaara/" class="postlink">My patreon</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p669609" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile669609"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=142450&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=142450_1559554174.png" width="80" height="80" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=142450&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">Hejnewar</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=142450&sr=posts&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5">333</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> September 17th, 2016, 11:01 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content669609"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669609&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669609">Re: 1.17 (and future) SP content development plans</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=669609&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669609&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669609" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=142450&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">Hejnewar</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-11-29T07:03:47+00:00">November 29th, 2021, 7:03 am</time> </p> <div class="content">About Dunefolk, there is currently hybrid (mostly MP focused) campaign in works, it features Dunefolk as main playable faction as well as really wants to be as lore heavy as possible for them, it at the same time is set "far far away" and does not have any interactions with main 4 Wesnoth races (Loyalists, Elves, Dwarves and Orc). Instead it will feature Drakes and Saurians as well as possibly Ogres (and Naga and Merfolk). <br> <br> It's currently developed by me and Jarom. I wanted to show it after elections are finished but since this topic was created I might as well reveal that it exists to the wider audience and add my brick to the future plans.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p669612" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile669612"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=121854_1351160483.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #16a589;" class="username-coloured">Lord-Knightmare</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Discord Moderator</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=121854&sr=posts&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5">2444</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> May 24th, 2010, 5:26 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Somewhere in the depths of Irdya, gathering my army to eventually destroy the known world.</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Lord-Knightmare"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Lord-Knightmare</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://tahsinjahinkhalid.github.io/" title="Website" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_website-icon">Website</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content669612"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669612&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669612">Re: 1.17 (and future) SP content development plans</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=669612&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669612&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669612" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #16a589;" class="username-coloured">Lord-Knightmare</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-11-29T12:31:42+00:00">November 29th, 2021, 12:31 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">Hello, I have arrived home and refreshed so I can comment in a concentrated mood now.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> Eastern Invasion/Delfador's Memoirs<br> <br> One of the older campaigns that needs a good amount of work is Eastern Invasion. With it having Mal Ravanal as the main threat and destroying much of Weldyn, I find it quite similar to Delfador's Memoirs from a storyline standpoint, where Iliah-Malal is more or less another version of Mal Ravanal. I'm hoping to revise these campaigns and combine them into a single one slightly prior to HttT to both raise the quality and not have two long campaigns with rather similar storylines and even factions. Astrid had some interest in this project as well, so I'm thinking this one would be the first one to work on.<br> <br> If we revise this, we can also revise The South Guard to fit in with this timeline, placing it just prior to the new campaign and have a more natural progression in storyline throughout the campaigns. </div></blockquote> I am all in for this merger decision. I have stated before (on discord) that DM's ending was hastily executed and left a bitter taste and EI had some elements in it which I didn't really quite approve of, namely that Skeletal Dragon Boss fight which proved to be a joke. Thus, hearing about a merger about them being made into a work which is somewhat in similar quality to new Descent into Darkness is welcoming news. I will also help with coding if asked or playtesting if a test version is made available and offer constructive feedback.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> Another older campaign that plays pretty decently, but could use some modernization, especially on the gameplay side. An interesting idea that was brought up was a sort of "tech tree" for Kapou'e, where he gains perk points that benefit his army or economy as he progresses along the campaign. </div></blockquote> Very intriguing. A research progression tree which would unlock new recruits and possibilities...yes.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> A campaign that has rather divisive opinions on it. While some of the criticisms on it are certainly valid, I think it fulfills a certain purpose in our campaign lineup and I'd rather not entirely lose the tone of the campaign even if it sometimes feels out of place. Still, it has some issues that I think would merit revision. I think it might make sense to absorb The Hammer of Thursagan into a revised NR since THoT currently is a rather small related subplot and it could be merged with the current Malifor subplot in NR. </div></blockquote> I was aware of some NR-rework being in drafts by revansurik. Did that lead to anything worth using? I suppose not given he's been on wesbreak for a while now. One thing I would like to see in the NR/ThoT thing is the absence of instances which are labelled "heavy RNG" dependent such as "Settling Disputes" which is saving a critically injured Dwarven Lord from a Lich and his underlings with just 3 units (whose landing attacks plays out how many saveloads would be required).<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> A Tale of Two Brothers<br> <br> This campaign could potentially function well as a 2p MP campaign to replace LoW MP (see below). It would require reworking of the campaign, though. </div></blockquote> The plot is reworkable to a hybrid setup for Arvith and Baran as players 1 and 2. However, one thing I would like to see is an antagonistic faction that is NOT Orcs. The Northerners have been excessively used as the antagonists of campaigns for ages now and it's rather dull. I suggest giving the enemy role to perhaps Ogres and Saurians or even the new collection of monster units (we have so many of them now). Also, please dont force recruit peasants...please, no.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> A campaign that was modified to be MP but which kind of broke it. At some point we probably need to remove the MP aspect, but I'd only feel comfortable doing that after we add a proper MP campaign (not WC) to the campaign lineup, which motivates the AToTB revision above. </div></blockquote> I believe I have written an essay on everything negative with the current hybridisation of LoW, with a key point being the ending is left uncertain as either Kalenz or his former best friend and comrade-in-arms Landar may win in the final battle and this would cause confusion in multiple mainline campaigns. I believe restoring LoW to its former SP only state (and not robbing players of their Elvish Shaman-line recalls) would be in the best interests of the Single-Player mode of the Battle for Wesnoth.<br> <br> One thing to note is that <em class="text-italics">An Orcish Incursion</em> is being reworked to be a hybrid small-party RPG campaign. I am just stating this if re-introducing it is still on the table as a LoW's hybrid campaign replacement if the SP-mode restoration of LOW is considered and undertaken. I'd complete it as an add-on for the 1.16 cycle first to generate feedback. Also, does "re-introduction of an old campaign" count as "new"? Because it's new and not new at the same time. <br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> Under the Burning Suns<br> <br> One of my personal favorite campaigns, but just needing some storyline and dialogue touchups, possibly some improvements in gameplay to the later scenarios. I think knyghtmare has some ideas to spruce up the final scenario. </div></blockquote> Yes, I have ideas for the last 2 scenarios to make them more engaging, especially the last boss fight. If anyone would point other UtBS scenarios or scenarios of other campaigns due for a revision/rework, I'd be happy to consult or deal with those.<br> <br> Also, before any arguments can surface, my procedure is releasing the reworked scenarios as stand-alone add-ons first to the "special list" of play-testers and then the playerbase and see the feedback reports and PR the finalised the version.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> Heir to the Throne<br> <br> The oldest campaign. It's pretty okay as it is, just needs some modernization. </div></blockquote> I think I have flamed about this before on the chats but I shall compose it here properly. The hidden path scenarios known as the Thoria path (you all know which one) have bonuses which are not satisfactory or on the same level as the bonuses gained in the other 2 paths (Flame Sword and Void Armour). One thing I would suggest is that those bonuses be reviewed to be more utilisable than the current ones. <ul> <li> Warren (Loyal Sergeant): First thoughts, yeah level 4 Grand Marshal to leadership to my level 3 army of recalls. However, given that swamp portion and infinite Draug of S19C were removed, allocating the required XP to get a Sergeant to Grand Marshal on the medium and easy difficulties is not...mathematically possible. Not sure for Hard. Thus, one quick fix to make him start as Lieutenant with some XP and with intelligent trait.</li> <li> Book of Ambush and Forest DEF up: Probably the most useless item in the entire campaign. True, an Ambusher is a very effective unit to have around but the last scenarios, S23 and S24 have little forest areas where it can be used, with S24 having no forested terrain at all. Thus, this is a wasted bonus and the bonuses from S19A and S19B prove to way better substitutes.</li> </ul> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> Edit: Where are we up to with respect to a dunefolk-oriented campaign? I remember there was some discussion of candidates a while back but nothing seemed to come of it (yet). Aside from drakes (which is a WIP), I think they're the only ones lacking significant representation in SP. Not sure how easy it would be to have a Saurian and/or Naga campaign nor if their units are strong enough to support one on their own - and aquatic environments seem less diverse than land/air-based locales anyway. </div></blockquote> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> About Dunefolk, there is currently hybrid (mostly MP focused) campaign in works, it features Dunefolk as main playable faction as well as really wants to be as lore heavy as possible for them, it at the same time is set "far far away" and does not have any interactions with main 4 Wesnoth races (Loyalists, Elves, Dwarves and Orc). Instead it will feature Drakes and Saurians as well as possibly Ogres (and Naga and Merfolk).<br> <br> It's currently developed by me and Jarom. I wanted to show it after elections are finished but since this topic was created I might as well reveal that it exists to the wider audience and add my brick to the future plans. </div></blockquote> As one of the early-access playtesters, I can confirm that this WIP Dunefolk campaign has potential. Needs some more bling, but there is potential.<br> <br> Lastly, this forum is dev-access only. Would be appropriate if a sister thread was opened to see responses of the community members.</div> <div id="sig669612" class="signature"><span style="font-size:85%;line-height:116%">Creator of "<a href="http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=30087" class="postlink">War of Legends</a>"<br> Creator of the <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=54212" class="postlink">Isle of Mists</a> survival scenario.<br> Maintainer of <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23656" class="postlink">Forward They Cried</a><br> <a href="http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Knyghtmare" class="postlink">User:Knyghtmare</a> | <a href="https://medium.com/@khalidtahsinjahin" class="postlink">My Medium</a></span></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p669889" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile669889"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=122699&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=122699_1532101445.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=122699&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">octalot</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">General Code Maintainer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=122699&sr=posts&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5">816</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> July 17th, 2010, 7:40 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Austria</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content669889"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669889&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669889">Re: 1.17 (and future) SP content development plans</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=669889&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669889&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669889" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=122699&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">octalot</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-12-10T10:57:10+00:00">December 10th, 2021, 10:57 am</time> </p> <div class="content">Do we have clear ideas of who will work on each of these, and an estimate of when things will be done? I'm concerned that people won't make small improvements to campaigns, because we expect someone else to make a larger change to the campaign. For example, back in 2020 it seemed that a complete rewrite of AToTB might arrive in time for 1.16, and so small improvements weren't done for a long time; see the opening comments in <a class="postlink" href="https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/5255">#5255</a> and <a class="postlink" href="https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/pull/5815">#5815</a>.<br> <br> On the subject of AToTB, I think the instant-communication amulets should be removed. If an apprentice mage could make those circa 350 YW then every village and border-fort should have them, but Wesnoth's storylines work better if a messenger on horseback is the usual method of long-distance communication. S01 could start with Arvith responding to a distress beacon (a signal fire) instead - that's both shorter range and something that the enemy can see too.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p669892" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile669892"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=121854_1351160483.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #16a589;" class="username-coloured">Lord-Knightmare</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Discord Moderator</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=121854&sr=posts&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5">2444</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> May 24th, 2010, 5:26 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Somewhere in the depths of Irdya, gathering my army to eventually destroy the known world.</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Lord-Knightmare"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Lord-Knightmare</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://tahsinjahinkhalid.github.io/" title="Website" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_website-icon">Website</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content669892"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669892&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669892">Re: 1.17 (and future) SP content development plans</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=669892&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=669892&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5#p669892" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=69bdb69609b6bbe03e55e8965732bce5" style="color: #16a589;" class="username-coloured">Lord-Knightmare</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-12-10T11:42:41+00:00">December 10th, 2021, 11:42 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote class="uncited"><div> Do we have clear ideas of who will work on each of these, and an estimate of when things will be done? I'm concerned that people won't make small improvements to campaigns, because we expect someone else to make a larger change to the campaign. For example, back in 2020 it seemed that a complete rewrite of AToTB might arrive in time for 1.16, and so small improvements weren't done for a long time; see the opening comments in #5255 and #5815. </div></blockquote> I actually proposed the ideas of delegating devs and veteran umc coders for the projects and leaving open slots for more contributors/replacements. In your case of AToTB rework, I did sample a prototype of the rework I found on Github, but I was not impressed and left a sour taste.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>I think the instant-communication amulets should be removed. </div></blockquote> I guess they should or it can added in that Baran excelled in Enchantments magic back at Alduin, to allow him to make them and these two were the only ones in existence since they might be prototypes.</div> <div id="sig669892" class="signature"><span style="font-size:85%;line-height:116%">Creator of "<a href="http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=30087" class="postlink">War of Legends</a>"<br> Creator of the <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=54212" class="postlink">Isle of Mists</a> survival scenario.<br> Maintainer of <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23656" class="postlink">Forward They Cried</a><br> <a href="http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Knyghtmare" 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