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class="mh-breadcrumb" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/BreadcrumbList"><span itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com" title="Home" itemprop="item"><span itemprop="name">Home</span></a><meta itemprop="position" content="1" /></span><span class="mh-breadcrumb-delimiter"><i class="fa fa-angle-right"></i></span><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/">Rifles</a><span class="mh-breadcrumb-delimiter"><i class="fa fa-angle-right"></i></span><span itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/semiauto-rifles/" itemprop="item" title="Semiauto Rifles"><span itemprop="name">Semiauto Rifles</span></a><meta itemprop="position" content="2" /></span><span class="mh-breadcrumb-delimiter"><i class="fa fa-angle-right"></i></span>Finland’s Next Service Rifle (Mostly): Sako ARG S 40</nav> <article id="post-33100" class="post-33100 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail hentry category-semiauto-rifles category-video tag-finland"> <header class="entry-header clearfix"><h1 class="entry-title">Finland’s Next Service Rifle (Mostly): Sako ARG S 40</h1><div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2025/02/">February 21, 2025</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/semiauto-rifles/" rel="category tag">Semiauto Rifles</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >20</a></span> </div> </header> <div class="entry-content clearfix"><p><iframe title="Finland's Next Service Rifle (Mostly): Sako ARG S 40" width="678" height="381" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RyBRziDOmf0?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe></p> <p>Finland and Sweden are both in the process of adopting AR-pattern rifles, and for the Finns this will be their first service rifle in 5.56mm NATO. It is a transition that has been anticipated for nearly 20 years, but was finally put into high gear by the Russian invasion of Ukraine and Finland’s entrance into NATO. The exact pattern of the new service rifle is being determined through testing (it may be DI or a short-stroke piston; we don’t know yet) but the National Defence Training Association of Finland (MPK) has chosen and purchased the ARG S 40 as it’s new rifle for reservist training. This is the much-anticipated AR pattern rifle manufactured by Sako, which won Finnish military tests. </p> <p>As acquired by the MPK, the rifle is semiautomatic only, chambered for standard 5.56mm NATO, direct impingement, and features fully ambidextrous controls, collapsing Magpul stock, heavy 16.1″ barrel, and M-lok handguard. The military rifles will of course be select-fire and will have some different details, but this is my first look at the general AR pattern from Sako. Overall it handles quite well, and I think it makes a lot of sense for Finland’s needs. </p> <p>Many thanks to the MPK for giving me a chance to film this example, and for providing these rifles as stage guns for shooting at Varusteleka’s Finnish Brutality 2025!</p> <div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-33100" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" 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data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/bp8-thumb.png" /><span>Next</span><p>Enjoying Black Powder Episode 8: Mauser 71/84</p></a></div> </nav> <section class="mh-related-content"> <h3 class="mh-widget-title mh-related-content-title"> <span class="mh-widget-title-inner">Related Articles</span></h3> <div class="mh-related-wrap mh-row clearfix"> <div class="mh-col-1-3 mh-posts-grid-col clearfix"> <article class="post-28091 format-standard mh-posts-grid-item clearfix"> <figure class="mh-posts-grid-thumb"> <a class="mh-thumb-icon mh-thumb-icon-small-mobile" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-luger-in-finland/" title="The Luger in Finland"><img width="326" height="245" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screen-Shot-2021-03-28-at-2.01.29-PM-326x245.png" class="attachment-mh-magazine-medium size-mh-magazine-medium wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" loading="lazy" srcset="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screen-Shot-2021-03-28-at-2.01.29-PM-326x245.png 326w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screen-Shot-2021-03-28-at-2.01.29-PM-678x509.png 678w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screen-Shot-2021-03-28-at-2.01.29-PM-80x60.png 80w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 326px) 100vw, 326px" data-attachment-id="28092" data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-luger-in-finland/screen-shot-2021-03-28-at-2-01-29-pm/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screen-Shot-2021-03-28-at-2.01.29-PM.png" data-orig-size="916,718" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":"","orientation":"0"}" data-image-title="Screen Shot 2021-03-28 at 2.01.29 PM" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screen-Shot-2021-03-28-at-2.01.29-PM-450x353.png" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screen-Shot-2021-03-28-at-2.01.29-PM.png" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Semiauto pistol </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-luger-in-finland/" title="The Luger in Finland" rel="bookmark"> The Luger in Finland </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2021/04/">April 1, 2021</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/handgun/semiauto-pistol/" rel="category tag">Semiauto pistol</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-luger-in-finland/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >12</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>After the failure of the domestic production Ahlberg pistols and some disappointment with the performance of surplus French Ruby pistols, the Finnish military turned to DWM in Germany for a main service pistol in 1922. <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-luger-in-finland/" title="The Luger in Finland">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-luger-in-finland/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-28091" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-luger-in-finland/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-28091" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-luger-in-finland/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> <div class="mh-col-1-3 mh-posts-grid-col clearfix"> <article class="post-30122 format-standard mh-posts-grid-item clearfix"> <figure class="mh-posts-grid-thumb"> <a class="mh-thumb-icon mh-thumb-icon-small-mobile" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ask-ian-did-the-finns-hate-the-carcano/" title="Ask Ian: Did the Finns Hate the Carcano?"><img width="326" height="245" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/122035_r500-326x245.jpg" class="attachment-mh-magazine-medium size-mh-magazine-medium wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" loading="lazy" srcset="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/122035_r500-326x245.jpg 326w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/122035_r500-80x60.jpg 80w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 326px) 100vw, 326px" data-attachment-id="30123" data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ask-ian-did-the-finns-hate-the-carcano/122035_r500/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/122035_r500.jpg" data-orig-size="497,500" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":"","orientation":"0"}" data-image-title="122035_r500" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/122035_r500-447x450.jpg" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/122035_r500.jpg" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Bolt Action Rifles </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ask-ian-did-the-finns-hate-the-carcano/" title="Ask Ian: Did the Finns Hate the Carcano?" rel="bookmark"> Ask Ian: Did the Finns Hate the Carcano? </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2022/07/">July 14, 2022</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/bolt-action/" rel="category tag">Bolt Action Rifles</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/qa/" rel="category tag">Q&A</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ask-ian-did-the-finns-hate-the-carcano/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >30</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>Asked by Prmetime on Utreon: In WW2, Finland was given approximately 100,000 Carcano M38 rifles in 7.35 Carcano. I have heard it stated that the Finns didn’t like the rifles. Can you comment on the <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ask-ian-did-the-finns-hate-the-carcano/" title="Ask Ian: Did the Finns Hate the Carcano?">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ask-ian-did-the-finns-hate-the-carcano/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-30122" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ask-ian-did-the-finns-hate-the-carcano/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-30122" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ask-ian-did-the-finns-hate-the-carcano/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> <div class="mh-col-1-3 mh-posts-grid-col clearfix"> <article class="post-28674 format-standard mh-posts-grid-item clearfix"> <figure class="mh-posts-grid-thumb"> <a class="mh-thumb-icon mh-thumb-icon-small-mobile" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/brp-recreates-a-classic-the-stemple-suomi/" title="BRP Recreates a Classic: the Stemple-Suomi"><img width="326" height="245" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-05-at-2.45.48-PM-326x245.png" class="attachment-mh-magazine-medium size-mh-magazine-medium wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" loading="lazy" srcset="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-05-at-2.45.48-PM-326x245.png 326w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-05-at-2.45.48-PM-80x60.png 80w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 326px) 100vw, 326px" data-attachment-id="28675" data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/brp-recreates-a-classic-the-stemple-suomi/screen-shot-2021-08-05-at-2-45-48-pm/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-05-at-2.45.48-PM.png" data-orig-size="755,497" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":"","orientation":"0"}" data-image-title="Screen Shot 2021-08-05 at 2.45.48 PM" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-05-at-2.45.48-PM-450x296.png" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Screen-Shot-2021-08-05-at-2.45.48-PM.png" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Conversion </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/brp-recreates-a-classic-the-stemple-suomi/" title="BRP Recreates a Classic: the Stemple-Suomi" rel="bookmark"> BRP Recreates a Classic: the Stemple-Suomi </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2021/09/">September 24, 2021</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/conversion-2/" rel="category tag">Conversion</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/machine-guns/smg/" rel="category tag">Submachine Guns</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/brp-recreates-a-classic-the-stemple-suomi/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >5</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>When the Stemple STG-76 was designed, it used internal parts from the Finnish kp/31 Suomi submachine gun. Since the whole point of the Stemple was to have a modular and interchangeable gun, it would make <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/brp-recreates-a-classic-the-stemple-suomi/" title="BRP Recreates a Classic: the Stemple-Suomi">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/brp-recreates-a-classic-the-stemple-suomi/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-28674" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/brp-recreates-a-classic-the-stemple-suomi/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-28674" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/brp-recreates-a-classic-the-stemple-suomi/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> </div> </section> <div id="comments" class="mh-comments-wrap"> <h4 class="mh-widget-title"> <span class="mh-widget-title-inner"> 20 Comments </span> </h4> <ol class="commentlist mh-comment-list"> <li id="comment-4712218" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4712218" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Kirk</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4712218"><time datetime="2025-02-21T12:11:35-07:00">February 21, 2025 at 12:11 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Goddamnit, Ian… You had one job, and completely missed it: The barrel attachment. What the F**K did SAKO do with that, on these rifles? It’s been driving me nuts since I first saw it; it kinda looks like there’s a clamp-action like they did on the LMT monolithic uppers, or the Colt Canada ones, but I’ve seen nothing to even begin explaining that SAKO solution anywhere, and it’s been driving me nuts since the first one I saw.</p> <p>And, you had one in your hands!!! Cue the John Cena voice and “I am disappoint, son…” meme.</p> <p> Well, someone will eventually bother to lay out what they did… Somewhere.</p> <p>Iesous H. Christos, man… That’s probably the one unique feature on this rifle, and you just left it laying there unexplained… 😉</p> <p>Maddening. I’ve been looking forward to a solution to this mystery ever since you announced you’d gotten your hands on one, in the flesh, and would be doing a piece. I haven’t had this sensation of frustration for decades…</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4712218" data-commentid="4712218" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4712218" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Kirk" aria-label="Reply to Kirk">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4712451" class="comment odd alt depth-2 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4712451" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4712451"><time datetime="2025-02-22T04:00:17-07:00">February 22, 2025 at 4:00 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>“(…)what they did(…)”<br /> <i>Sako Oy</i> is assignee of patent <b>US12163754B2</b> <i>Gas system of a firearm</i><br /> <a href="https://patents.google.com/patent/US12163754B2" rel="nofollow ugc">https://patents.google.com/patent/US12163754B2</a><br /> which show weapon similar to <b>ARG S 40</b> AND does have word <i>attached</i> in <b>Claims</b> section.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4712451" data-commentid="4712451" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4712451" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4713641" class="comment even depth-3 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4713641" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Kirk</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4713641"><time datetime="2025-02-22T21:47:52-07:00">February 22, 2025 at 9:47 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>That seems to be a patent for an as-yet unused annular gas system…</p> <p>Aaaaand… In the diagrams, it shows a very LMT-esque clamping system for something, whether or not it’s the barrel or the handguard setup, you can’t really tell. Nothing in the verbiage, either…</p> <p>All I want to know is how the hell they did the barrel attachment to the upper, and what that singular Allen bolt is actually securing.</p> <p>(sigh) Maybe someday, someone will tell the world.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4713641" data-commentid="4713641" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4713641" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Kirk" aria-label="Reply to Kirk">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4712255" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4712255" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9c6ce505da95317ebc1c57848e8328b6?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9c6ce505da95317ebc1c57848e8328b6?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Bart</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4712255"><time datetime="2025-02-21T16:09:31-07:00">February 21, 2025 at 4:09 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>So this is basically a nice AR-15 build. And it has taken the Finns 20 years to come up with it. A trip to a couple US gun shops would have gotten the matter sorted out in less time. But I guess bureaucrats need to make things complicated, to justify their jobs.</p> <p>But on a more serious note — AR-15s are now fully acceptable as frontline combat rifles. Seems like a lot of ripple effects from this could occur, some good, some bad.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4712255" data-commentid="4712255" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4712255" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Bart" aria-label="Reply to Bart">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4712296" class="comment even depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4712296" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c32de4674d6980689c9d9074bc7bb311?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c32de4674d6980689c9d9074bc7bb311?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Martin Tyrsegg</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4712296"><time datetime="2025-02-21T20:15:04-07:00">February 21, 2025 at 8:15 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Um…Finland has not been overrun by (insert foe) in that long nonce. If “the bureaucrats” had adopted an utter POS, you’d be whinging about what was the hurry.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4712296" data-commentid="4712296" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4712296" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Martin Tyrsegg" aria-label="Reply to Martin Tyrsegg">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4713324" class="comment odd alt depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4713324" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d19c4c8e23700e646adb909d8274d31c?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d19c4c8e23700e646adb909d8274d31c?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Stephen</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4713324"><time datetime="2025-02-22T15:10:09-07:00">February 22, 2025 at 3:10 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>How do you know it was “bureaucrats”?<br /> Perhaps the Finnish military actually know a thing or two about military procurement and their geopolitical situation regarding a certain murderous authoritarian regime.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4713324" data-commentid="4713324" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4713324" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Stephen" aria-label="Reply to Stephen">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4713326" class="comment even depth-2 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4713326" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4396bfd5eea85b47d9620204100ddbdf?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/4396bfd5eea85b47d9620204100ddbdf?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">R. Slay</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4713326"><time datetime="2025-02-22T15:13:05-07:00">February 22, 2025 at 3:13 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>It doesn’t mean they were working on it for 20 years. It means they stuck with their existing Kalashnikov-pattern rifles as long as possible but everyone knew that as a small Western power shifting towards NATO they’d want an AR platform for parts & ammo compatibility some day.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4713326" data-commentid="4713326" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4713326" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to R. Slay" aria-label="Reply to R. Slay">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4714356" class="comment odd alt depth-3 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714356" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ed2e813cd4a230689b666c1f4ca48e1b?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ed2e813cd4a230689b666c1f4ca48e1b?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Pdb</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714356"><time datetime="2025-02-23T12:06:02-07:00">February 23, 2025 at 12:06 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Against… I’d spend it on Archer artillery systems, and hope you never need to use Valmets much before sensible folk make themselves heard; that way, personally. Seems not much use, in practical terms overall. Virtue signalling, no? Oh well.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714356" data-commentid="4714356" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714356" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Pdb" aria-label="Reply to Pdb">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4714361" class="comment even depth-4 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714361" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ed2e813cd4a230689b666c1f4ca48e1b?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ed2e813cd4a230689b666c1f4ca48e1b?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Pdb</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714361"><time datetime="2025-02-23T12:18:38-07:00">February 23, 2025 at 12:18 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I mean does Finland even want transvestite toilets? The reason we are fighting, for “Western values” like Ukraine. Mismatch… No? Oh well.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714361" data-commentid="4714361" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714361" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Pdb" aria-label="Reply to Pdb">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4714388" class="comment odd alt depth-3 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714388" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/16bf1cf5a3da7dff1c998465a4f91ffd?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/16bf1cf5a3da7dff1c998465a4f91ffd?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Dang Vorbei</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714388"><time datetime="2025-02-23T13:42:02-07:00">February 23, 2025 at 1:42 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>That people as intensely conservative as the Finns would swap rifles at all is impressive. Nobody should be shocked that the AR they chose was a good one. I was more surprised when they bought those Chinese AKs a few years ago. At least these didn’t come off Wish.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714388" data-commentid="4714388" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714388" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Dang Vorbei" aria-label="Reply to Dang Vorbei">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4714403" class="comment even depth-2 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714403" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Kirk</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714403"><time datetime="2025-02-23T13:54:42-07:00">February 23, 2025 at 1:54 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>At this point, I have to marvel at the inherent improbability and humor that this situation represents.</p> <p>When I was a young soldier, anyone saying that the AR-15 series of weapons was a good choice for combat would have been shouted down and mocked. That was worldwide, and <i>everyone</i> would have told you that… “Anything but the M-16…”</p> <p>Flash forward, and… What the f*ck is going on? There have been more adoptions of the basic Stoner system weapons than anything else in the last forty-odd years than anything else. Even the damn Germans are issuing variations on the theme…</p> <p>It’s a telling thing, all that. Everyone who was saying how “inferior” the M-16 was, back in the 1970s-80s? Where’re they now? Oh, that’s right… Buying M-16-alikes.</p> <p>Makes you wonder, it does. Also, points out how a terrible initial fielding can sabotage adoption and uptake of a design that’s obviously got some good things about it, despite the opinion of “experts” everywhere.</p> <p>I used to hold that the M-16 was a terrible weapon, and we made a mistake adopting it. Now? I’m more “Yeah, it wasn’t the weapon… It was the fielding, and all the idiots behind the scenes…”</p> <p>I do wonder what we would have gotten, had someone “done the right thing”, and ensured a proper fielding and a true intermediate cartridge. Offering up the IP and TDP for free wouldn’t have been a bad idea, either… We might have ended up with a true NATO standard, early in the idiocy.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714403" data-commentid="4714403" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714403" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Kirk" aria-label="Reply to Kirk">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4714414" class="comment odd alt depth-3 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714414" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ed2e813cd4a230689b666c1f4ca48e1b?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ed2e813cd4a230689b666c1f4ca48e1b?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Pdb</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714414"><time datetime="2025-02-23T14:05:39-07:00">February 23, 2025 at 2:05 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I shot, no held an S.A.S one wee CAR15 painted green… Once, on one occasion; I wasn’t in the S.A.S but in Kenya. And it was like a wee toy gun; so light and small. I had a big (Not being a SLR user) Lsw Sa80, that bloke out of interest pointed it up; and came down onto the target with it, when I gave it him, as oppose me lifting it up to hit the target. And fair play he was better than me at 20, he he… Just mentioning incase anyone else has a heavy’ish gun; maybe you should hold it pointing up, type thing and bring it down. Gravity or something, aye.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714414" data-commentid="4714414" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714414" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Pdb" aria-label="Reply to Pdb">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4714452" class="comment even depth-4 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714452" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Kirk</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714452"><time datetime="2025-02-23T15:49:48-07:00">February 23, 2025 at 3:49 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>The issues with the L85 weapons system have little to do with the weight, and everything to do with the ergonomics they saddled it with.</p> <p>You can’t run one effectively in a gunfight, because doing basic things like changing out magazines and clearing misfires/jams requires you to take your attention off your immediate surroundings; this is something that will get you killed in real combat, no matter what the happy-dappy trainers tell you in peacetime. Take your attention off what’s going on around you? There will be fatalities, some of which will stem from you having lost track of where your fellow soldiers are and what they’re doing.</p> <p>Having watched UK soldiers at work on live-fire ranges as far back as the late 1980s, I’m absolutely not a fan of the L85 or any other bullpup design; I have no idea who the hell worked up their training drills, but having a guy stop in the middle of an advance to contact, remove his rifle from his shoulder, and then go about looking down at it to reload…? Insane. You can still see that crap in all the FIBUA videos that they were posting into the late 2000s; I don’t think there’s been a corrective.</p> <p>You have to design a weapon so that it requires a minimum of mindspace and attention to operate; the soldier should be capable of doing a clearance drill or reload cycle without ever taking their eyes off the environment. You design such that they have to pay attention to the rifle, rather than what they’re in the midst of? You done screwed the pooch, friend-o…</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714452" data-commentid="4714452" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714452" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Kirk" aria-label="Reply to Kirk">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4714873" class="comment odd alt depth-4 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714873" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714873"><time datetime="2025-02-24T06:56:19-07:00">February 24, 2025 at 6:56 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>“(…)like a wee toy gun; so light and small(…)”<br /> If you do not consider AR-15 or derivative thereof as too light then use <b>H&R SPIW</b> <a href="https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/H%26R_SPIW" rel="nofollow ugc">https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/H%26R_SPIW</a></p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714873" data-commentid="4714873" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714873" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4714868" class="comment even depth-3 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714868" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714868"><time datetime="2025-02-24T06:53:35-07:00">February 24, 2025 at 6:53 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>“(…)used to hold that the M-16 was a terrible weapon, and we made a mistake adopting it. Now? I’m more “Yeah, it wasn’t the weapon… It was the fielding, and all the idiots behind the scenes…”(…)”<br /> Keep in mind that <a href="http://modernfirearms.net/en/assault-rifles/u-s-a-assault-rifles/m16-a1-a2-a3-a4-eng/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://modernfirearms.net/en/assault-rifles/u-s-a-assault-rifles/m16-a1-a2-a3-a4-eng/</a> <i>the US Army adopted the XM16E1 as a limited standard rifle, to fill the niche between the discontinued 7.62mm M14 rifle and the forthcoming SPIW system</i> therefore you should recognize said weapon as <b>stop-gap solution</b> and therefore do not require everything you would from standard (without limited in front) rifle.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714868" data-commentid="4714868" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714868" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4715221" class="comment odd alt depth-3 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4715221" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d9f408afa0166b497318d986e0772e4d?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/d9f408afa0166b497318d986e0772e4d?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">schwensen</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4715221"><time datetime="2025-02-24T19:46:41-07:00">February 24, 2025 at 7:46 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Reply to Kirk: I remembered this article from 1986 “SWAT” magazine, about the Alaskan Troopers looking for a patrol rifle. Hopefully this link works:</p> <p><a href="https://imgur.com/gallery/swat-1986-alaska-extreme-cold-weather-rifle-testing-uLfvt" rel="nofollow ugc">https://imgur.com/gallery/swat-1986-alaska-extreme-cold-weather-rifle-testing-uLfvt</a> </p> <p>Their criteria focused on reliability in cold weather with suboptimal rifle maintenance. Ergonomics and optics were not as important. Maybe the AR’s today are more reliable in cold weather than in 1986, or maybe their higher need of maintenance is worthy of all the benefits they bring to the table compared to an AK variant.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4715221" data-commentid="4715221" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4715221" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to schwensen" aria-label="Reply to schwensen">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4715281" class="comment even depth-4 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4715281" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Kirk</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4715281"><time datetime="2025-02-24T22:04:57-07:00">February 24, 2025 at 10:04 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>You get down to a certain temperature point, and it’s all about the people running the rifles more than it is the design. Hand a guy an AK-series rifle, and if he’s constantly lugging it in between heated spaces and the out-of-doors at -30 degrees Fahrenheit, wellllll… It won’t work after enough freeze-thaw cycles, no matter what. Likewise, if you’ve got a guy who religiously pays attention to keeping his rifle cold, doesn’t take it into the warm, and does what he’s supposed to? It’ll keep right on ticking.</p> <p>I remember when that issue of SWAT came out, and I remember throwing it over to my friend who had just returned to the Lower 48 after six years in Alaska up at Fort Richardson and Fort Wainwright. He’d also spent a couple of winters working at the cold weather testing center that Natick Labs had up there, so he knew whereof he spoke with regards to “small arms in the cold”. He was not particularly impressed with the testing described in the SWAT article, and felt that the issue weapons were just fine… So long as you did as you were supposed to. The other stuff he’d done comparison testing on during his stints at the testing center was the same… Do what you’re supposed to, and it’ll work fine. Be stupid? Win stupid prizes…</p> <p>It was interesting talking to him about the lengths they had to go to, to keep weapons running. Everything on the guns would gum up at some point, to include naptha and gasoline they used for cleaning, something I found hard to accept. From what he said, the best thing they’d run into for weapons was some experimental crap that was like a hundred bucks an ounce and which the Army had overruled on the grounds of cost. It was some sort of Teflon/Molybdenum Disulfide slurry that you put on and let dry out before taking the weapon out into the cold.</p> <p>Believe it or not, the coldest I’ve ever been on the temperature scale during Army service was in Germany up at Bad Toelze when it got down to around -30 Fahrenheit. We had issues with weapons there, but they weren’t insurmountable, once we got the drills down. The M16 series is fairly good at low temperatures, once you dial in how you’re lubricating and handling them. They really do not do well with a constant freeze-thaw cycle, though… And, not too many weapons out there are any better.</p> <p>Gotta tell you, though… The idea of taking all the modern optical crap out into that sort of weather just leaves me with a delicate shuddering sense of horror.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4715281" data-commentid="4715281" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4715281" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Kirk" aria-label="Reply to Kirk">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4714914" class="comment odd alt thread-even depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4714914" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/84f6c72bcd37e174e6295e3ae4880b53?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/84f6c72bcd37e174e6295e3ae4880b53?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Dave</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4714914"><time datetime="2025-02-24T08:31:19-07:00">February 24, 2025 at 8:31 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Gee, didn’t the FDF and Swedish army get the memo about the inadequacies of 5.56x45mm against the emerging threats of über-mega-advanced-high-tech *body armor*? /s.</p> <p>So Finland is wondering what barrel length and whether direct-impingement or not… I wonder if the color choice is another hang up? I’d have thought Sweden would want the cheery green coloration of the old AK5 FNC derivatives… But most look like a drab sort of baby poo brown… Are the Finns going to adhere to a “black” rifle and break out the white tape for much of the long winter season?</p> <p>I do agree with many posters about how strange it is that the Stoner system–the “accidental rifle” in C.J. Chivers apt phrase from his book _The Gun_–is now literally the go to world standard. With the aspects of the cheapness of manufacture of the AR-18 also now almost universal. Recall that the flaws of the M16 roll out: “no need to clean it, hence no cleaning kit…” and “contractors had lots of the powder used for the 7.62x51mm cartridges on hand, so they just went ahead and used that in the 5.56x45mm cases… I mean, what’s the dif?” did much to impugn the weapon in the minds of many service men and women who carried it–I recall being upbraided by a Vietnam vet about the utility of the M16 as a crutch while limping shot up from one or another patch of jungle or rice paddy–and all of the armchair weapons enthusiasts. Remember all of the claims about the gas system inserting fouling into the action?</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4714914" data-commentid="4714914" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4714914" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Dave" aria-label="Reply to Dave">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4715147" class="comment even depth-2 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4715147" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2cd3c4008230c9a90503e125ab8b1026?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/2cd3c4008230c9a90503e125ab8b1026?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Paul J</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4715147"><time datetime="2025-02-24T16:30:02-07:00">February 24, 2025 at 4:30 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>The AR-15 isn’t the pinacle of small arm development.<br /> It’s proven, produced in every continent, cheap enough, effective enough but a cheaper, more performant rifle isn’t difficult to design.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4715147" data-commentid="4715147" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4715147" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Paul J" aria-label="Reply to Paul J">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4715180" class="comment odd alt depth-3 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4715180" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Kirk</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#comment-4715180"><time datetime="2025-02-24T17:16:55-07:00">February 24, 2025 at 5:16 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>It should have been the object of a real product improvement program since day one.</p> <p>The ergonomics are near-perfect, but… They should have been ambidextrous, from the start, and the selector switch should have been limited-throw rather than the 180-degree and 360-degree monstrosities that they issued originally. That was not well-thought out; I could live with discussing whether or not to go safe-full-semi or safe-semi-full. That’s more down to esoteric choices than really all that important.</p> <p>Other than that? Aside from some of the bolt/carrier improvements like lengthening the dwell time, and beefing up the lugs and extractor, the damn thing was nearly perfect in terms of ergonomics from the beginning; certainly better than the majority of the stuff that was prevalent at the time it was developed.</p> <p>I still want to know what the hell went on with that whole “who did the ergonomics” question. I’ve yet to see it really spelled out who did what, and how they arrived at their choices. Whoever it was possessed what can only be described as damn near divine inspiration.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4715180" data-commentid="4715180" data-postid="33100" data-belowelement="div-comment-4715180" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Kirk" aria-label="Reply to Kirk">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ol> <div id="respond" class="comment-respond"> <h3 id="reply-title" class="comment-reply-title">Leave a Reply <small><a rel="nofollow" id="cancel-comment-reply-link" href="/finlands-next-service-rifle-mostly-sako-arg-s-40/#respond" style="display:none;">Cancel reply</a></small></h3><form action="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-comments-post.php" method="post" id="commentform" class="comment-form" novalidate><p class="comment-notes">Your email address will not be published.</p><p class="comment-form-comment"><label for="comment">Comment</label><br/><textarea 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class="mh-widget-title-inner mh-footer-widget-title-inner">Research Sites</span></h6> <ul class='xoxo blogroll'> <li><a href="https://americansocietyofarmscollectors.org/resources/articles/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">American Society of Arms Collectors</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.lugerlp08.com" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Artillery Luger</a></li> <li><a href="https://candrsenal.com/" rel="noopener" title="Great exploded views and military arms information" target="_blank">C&Rsenal</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Carbines for Collectors</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.gotavapen.se/index_eng2g.htm" rel="noopener" title="Many good articles about Swedish military arms" target="_blank">Gothia Arms Historical Society</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.gunpics.net/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">GunPictures.net</a></li> <li><a href="https://jamesdjulia.com/master-catalog-search/" rel="noopener" title="Photos and descriptions of all the past Julia auction lots – tons of very rare guns here" target="_blank">James Julia auction archive</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.hungariae.com/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Manowar's Hungarian Weapons & History</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.milsurps.com/content.php" rel="noopener" title="The Milsurp Knowledge Library" target="_blank">Milsurps.com</a></li> <li><a href="http://world.guns.ru/" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Modern Firearms</a></li> <li><a href="https://municion.org/" rel="noopener" title="Excellent cartridge reference (in Spanish)" target="_blank">Municion.org</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.oldcolt.com" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Old Colts</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.tague.at/pistolen/en_index.htm" rel="noopener" target="_blank">Pistols of the German Wehrmacht</a></li> <li><a href="http://www.paul-mauser-archive.com" rel="noopener" target="_blank">The Paul Mauser Archive</a></li> <li><a href="https://scwmosin.weebly.com/index.html" rel="noopener" title=" The Spanish Civil War Mosin Nagant" target="_blank">The Spanish Civil War Mosin Nagant</a></li> <li><a href="https://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/" rel="noopener" title="Great articles on early handgun designs" target="_blank">Unblinking Eye</a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="mh-col-1-4 mh-widget-col-1 mh-footer-4-cols mh-footer-area mh-footer-3"> <div id="text-11" class="mh-footer-widget widget_text"><h6 class="mh-widget-title mh-footer-widget-title"><span class="mh-widget-title-inner mh-footer-widget-title-inner">What I’m Currently Reading</span></h6> <div class="textwidget"><div align="center"> </div></div> </div></div> <div class="mh-col-1-4 mh-widget-col-1 mh-footer-4-cols mh-footer-area mh-footer-4"> <div id="blog_subscription-5" class="mh-footer-widget widget_blog_subscription jetpack_subscription_widget"><h6 class="mh-widget-title mh-footer-widget-title"><span class="mh-widget-title-inner 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