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Talk:Ennius - Wikipedia
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.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Crystal_personal.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/25px-Crystal_personal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/38px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/50px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="70" data-file-height="70" /></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a 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It's a detail from Raphael's <a href="/wiki/The_Parnassus" title="The Parnassus">The Parnassus</a> and was brought in from its use on other Wikipedias. According to Paul F. Watson, "On a Window in Parnassus", <i>Artibus et Historiae</i> 8 (1987) 127–148, at 137 n. 27, a different figure, the young man writing down whatever Homer's singing, is Ennius: "The usual designation nowadays is Ennius: see Dussler, op. cit., p. 74 with further references." I'm not an art historian, but I think the identification should probably be bolstered by a citation. The site from which the image was originally copied even seems to agree with Watson's footnote. <a href="/wiki/User:Cardiffchestnut" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Cardiffchestnut">The Cardiff Chestnut</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cardiffchestnut" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Cardiffchestnut">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z-image" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:16, 3 August 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z-image"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z","author":"Cardiffchestnut","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z-image","replies":["c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-07T17:53:00.000Z-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z"],"displayName":"The Cardiff Chestnut"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z-image"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-07T17:53:00.000Z-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z"></span>I'm going to remove this now: the image is used as "Ennius" on several Wikipedias, but that isn't suitable justification for using it here. <a href="/wiki/User:Cardiffchestnut" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Cardiffchestnut">The Cardiff Chestnut</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cardiffchestnut" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Cardiffchestnut">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-07T17:53:00.000Z-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:53, 7 August 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-07T17:53:00.000Z-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2011-08-07T17:53:00.000Z","author":"Cardiffchestnut","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-07T17:53:00.000Z-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"The Cardiff Chestnut"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-07T17:53:00.000Z-Cardiffchestnut-2011-08-03T17:16:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Birthplace-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace"],"text":"Birthplace","linkableTitle":"Birthplace"}--><h2 id="Birthplace" data-mw-thread-id="h-Birthplace-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Birthplace-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z"></span>Birthplace<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Birthplace-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ennius&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Birthplace"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Birthplace-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace"]}}--><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><!--__DTLATESTCOMMENTTHREAD__{"id":"c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace","timestamp":"2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z"}__--><!--__DTCOMMENTCOUNT__7__--><!--__DTAUTHORCOUNT__2__--></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Birthplace-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z","replies":["c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z-Birthplace","c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace"],"text":"Birthplace","linkableTitle":"Birthplace"}--></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z-Birthplace"></span>The difficulty of arriving at uniformity in an encyclopaedia is proved by William Smith's <i>Smaller Classical Dictionary</i> (1852), which says under ENNIUS that the poet "was born at Rudiae, in Calabria" and also "a Greek by birth". But under the entry on RUDIAE Smith identifies the town as Apulian and "celebrated as the birthplace of Ennius". There has been more recent scholarship since its publication and in conformity with that I have changed the assertion that the poet was an Oscan from Calabria, despite the statements by Classical authors writing two or more centuries later. The present consensus is that his birthplace was not Rutigliano (with which Smith identified Rudiae) but the archaeological site now within the city limits of Lecce. <a href="/wiki/User:Sweetpool50" title="User:Sweetpool50">Sweetpool50</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sweetpool50" title="User talk:Sweetpool50">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z-Birthplace" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:51, 17 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z-Birthplace"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z","author":"Sweetpool50","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z-Birthplace","replies":["c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-17T16:57:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z"]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z-Birthplace"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-17T16:57:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z"></span>If you have sources, you should amend the text of the article perhaps. <a href="/wiki/User:Kanjuzi" title="User:Kanjuzi">Kanjuzi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kanjuzi" title="User talk:Kanjuzi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-17T16:57:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:57, 17 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-17T16:57:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-17T16:57:00.000Z","author":"Kanjuzi","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-17T16:57:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-17T16:57:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T12:51:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z-Birthplace"></span>Thanks, already done. <a href="/wiki/User:Sweetpool50" title="User:Sweetpool50">Sweetpool50</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sweetpool50" title="User talk:Sweetpool50">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z-Birthplace" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:08, 17 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z-Birthplace"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z","author":"Sweetpool50","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z-Birthplace","replies":["c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-18T05:21:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z"]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z-Birthplace"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-18T05:21:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z"></span>What you have to remember is that the name Calabria in those days referred not to the toe but to the heel of Italy: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://logeion.uchicago.edu/index.html#Calabria">"Lewis and Short: Calabria"</a>, the part from Tarentum to the tip of the heel. So Ennius was in fact born in Calabria (in its original sense), not Apulia. What I meant when I mentioned sources is when you said that the "modern consensus" is that Rudiae is not where Wikipedia says it is but Lecce. <a href="/wiki/User:Kanjuzi" title="User:Kanjuzi">Kanjuzi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kanjuzi" title="User talk:Kanjuzi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-18T05:21:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:21, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-18T05:21:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-18T05:21:00.000Z","author":"Kanjuzi","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-18T05:21:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-18T05:21:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-17T20:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z-Birthplace"></span>Smith lists Rudiae under Apulia, which is the reference given. WP is a modern encyclopaedia, not a compendium of ancient geography, so it seems best to give the up to date name of the present province. Since the article is about Ennius anyway, we don't need to go into geographical subtleties best left for discussion (if at all) under the new article on Rudiae. As for 'modern consensus', that phrase is not used in the article. But there is a note on the Renaissance identification of the site under Rudiae. I looked up several sources on that; so far as I remember they're all in Italian and/or Latin. <a href="/wiki/User:Sweetpool50" title="User:Sweetpool50">Sweetpool50</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sweetpool50" title="User talk:Sweetpool50">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z-Birthplace" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:31, 18 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z-Birthplace"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z","author":"Sweetpool50","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z-Birthplace","replies":["c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-19T04:12:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z"]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z-Birthplace"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-19T04:12:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z"></span>I don't think it is necessary to entirely exclude "Ancient Calabria" from the article. Any student of the ancient world (and that presumably includes most of the readers of this article) who has consulted an ancient history atlas will be (or ought to be) aware that Calabria was the name of the heel of Italy. To say that Ennius was born in Apulia is like saying that Hannibal was born in Tunisia, or that Julius Caesar conquered France; it's a bit of an anachronism. Lewis and Short say (entry <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://logeion.uchicago.edu/index.html#Appulia">Appulia</a>, though they say the spelling "Apulia" is better) that Apulia is "a province in lower Italy, at the north of Calabria", i.e. it didn't include the heel of Italy.) (The modern region, incidentally, is called Puglia.) For that reason I beg your indulgence if I put Calabria back in. <a href="/wiki/User:Kanjuzi" title="User:Kanjuzi">Kanjuzi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kanjuzi" title="User talk:Kanjuzi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-19T04:12:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-19T04:12:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-19T04:12:00.000Z","author":"Kanjuzi","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-19T04:12:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kanjuzi-2018-01-19T04:12:00.000Z-Sweetpool50-2018-01-18T15:31:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace"></span>OK, I've linked it to the Etymology section of the WP article, which explains the change. <a href="/wiki/User:Sweetpool50" title="User:Sweetpool50">Sweetpool50</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sweetpool50" title="User talk:Sweetpool50">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z","author":"Sweetpool50","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sweetpool50-2018-01-19T10:38:00.000Z-Birthplace"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-37.6.19.178-20220726194800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Source_issue-20220726194800","replies":["c-37.6.19.178-20220726194800-Source_issue"],"text":"Source issue","linkableTitle":"Source issue"}--><h2 id="Source_issue" data-mw-thread-id="h-Source_issue-20220726194800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Source_issue-20220726194800"></span>Source issue<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Source_issue-20220726194800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ennius&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Source issue"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-37.6.19.178-20220726194800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Source_issue-20220726194800","replies":["c-37.6.19.178-20220726194800-Source_issue"]}}--><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><!--__DTLATESTCOMMENTTHREAD__{"id":"c-Sweetpool50-20220726214200-37.6.19.178-20220726194800","timestamp":"20220726214200"}__--><!--__DTCOMMENTCOUNT__2__--><!--__DTAUTHORCOUNT__2__--></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-37.6.19.178-20220726194800","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Source_issue-20220726194800","replies":["c-37.6.19.178-20220726194800-Source_issue"],"text":"Source issue","linkableTitle":"Source issue"}--></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-37.6.19.178-20220726194800-Source_issue"></span>The text claims "The partly Hellenised city of <a href="/wiki/Rudiae" title="Rudiae">Rudiae</a>, his place of birth, was certainly in the area settled by the <a href="/wiki/Messapians" title="Messapians">Messapians</a>. And this, he used to say, according to <a href="/wiki/Aulus_Gellius" title="Aulus Gellius">Aulus Gellius</a>, had endowed him with a triple linguistic and cultural heritage, fancifully described as "three hearts… Greek, Oscan and Latin". However the source cited <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2007.01.0072:id=v3.p.263">[1]</a> doesn't support the first part of the sentence. It says: "Quintus Ennius said that he had three hearts, because he was proficient in three tongues, Greek, Oscan, and Latin." and "QUINTUS ENNIUS used to say that he had three hearts, because he knew how to speak Greek, Oscan, and Latin". </p><p>The current text seems to imply a connection between Rudiae and Ennius' trilingualism and his place of origin, Rudiae, ("And this, he used to say, according to <a href="/wiki/Aulus_Gellius" title="Aulus Gellius">Aulus Gellius</a>, had endowed him with a triple linguistic and cultural heritage") which <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">isn't supported by the source provided</a>. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/37.6.19.178" title="Special:Contributions/37.6.19.178">37.6.19.178</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:37.6.19.178&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:37.6.19.178 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-37.6.19.178-20220726194800-Source_issue" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 26 July 2022 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-37.6.19.178-20220726194800-Source_issue"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20220726194800","author":"37.6.19.178","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-37.6.19.178-20220726194800-Source_issue","replies":["c-Sweetpool50-20220726214200-37.6.19.178-20220726194800"]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-37.6.19.178-20220726194800-Source_issue"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sweetpool50-20220726214200-37.6.19.178-20220726194800"></span>Since the wording in WP is constantly modified, perhaps a false impression has been created over time. Aulus Gellius simply relates the story of Ennius's trilingualism (in the context of a completely different anecdote about Mithridates), but such was the fame of Ennius, with his birthplace in Rudiae, that most readers of the time probably understood how he came to have that inheritance. A later editor of the text annotates the fact in the first hit I got from Advanced Book Search <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Fifty_stories_from_Aulus_Gellius/ZmNJAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Rudiae+%22Aulus+Gellius%22&pg=PA68&printsec=frontcover">here</a>. A slight rewording could have sorted that out without all the song and dance. What we don't want from an editor who forgets to sign his name to his remarks is the kind of editorializing that tells us that Mesappus is both "mythical" <i>and</i> a "legendary king". And what kind of sentence is "According to <a href="/wiki/Aulus_Gellius" title="Aulus Gellius">Aulus Gellius</a>, had endowed him with a triple linguistic and cultural heritage"? <a href="/wiki/User:Sweetpool50" title="User:Sweetpool50">Sweetpool50</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sweetpool50" title="User talk:Sweetpool50">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ennius#c-Sweetpool50-20220726214200-37.6.19.178-20220726194800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 26 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sweetpool50-20220726214200-37.6.19.178-20220726194800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"20220726214200","author":"Sweetpool50","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Sweetpool50-20220726214200-37.6.19.178-20220726194800","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sweetpool50-20220726214200-37.6.19.178-20220726194800"></span></dd></dl> <!-- NewPP limit report Parsed by mw‐web.codfw.main‐5f94d8864b‐sbbsm Cached time: 20250306123542 Cache expiry: 864000 Reduced expiry: true Complications: [vary‐revision‐sha1] DiscussionTools time usage: 0.013 seconds CPU time usage: 0.185 seconds Real time usage: 0.242 seconds Preprocessor visited node count: 1180/1000000 Post‐expand include size: 28668/2097152 bytes Template argument size: 34/2097152 bytes Highest expansion depth: 11/100 Expensive parser function count: 10/500 Unstrip recursion depth: 0/20 Unstrip post‐expand size: 21871/5000000 bytes Lua time usage: 0.119/10.000 seconds Lua memory usage: 3104619/52428800 bytes Number of Wikibase entities loaded: 0/400 --> <!-- Transclusion expansion time report (%,ms,calls,template) 100.00% 190.319 1 Template:WikiProject_banner_shell 100.00% 190.319 1 -total 49.98% 95.129 1 Template:WikiProject_Biography 5.02% 9.560 1 Template:WikiProject_Latin 3.72% 7.071 1 Template:WikiProject_Classical_Greece_and_Rome 3.42% 6.516 1 Template:Find_page_text 2.37% 4.503 2 Template:Pagetype 1.73% 3.291 13 Template:Yesno --> <!-- Saved in parser cache with key enwiki:pcache:6572817:|#|:idhash:canonical and timestamp 20250306123542 and revision id 1267778173. 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