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class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Should the state seal be incorporated into templates?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Show/Hide_tags" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Show/Hide_tags"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Show/Hide tags</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Show/Hide_tags-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Font_size" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 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class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Header_font_size"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.1</span> <span>Header font size</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Header_font_size-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Text_alignment" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Text_alignment"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.2</span> <span>Text alignment</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Text_alignment-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Coats_of_arms" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Coats_of_arms"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.3</span> <span>Coats of arms</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Coats_of_arms-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Show/hide_tags_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Show/hide_tags_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.4</span> <span>Show/hide tags</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Show/hide_tags_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Topics_section" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Topics_section"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.5</span> <span>Topics section</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Topics_section-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Inclusion_of_sections" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Inclusion_of_sections"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7.6</span> <span>Inclusion of sections</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Inclusion_of_sections-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Washington" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Washington"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Washington</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Washington-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_consensus" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_consensus"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>A consensus</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-A_consensus-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Large_templates" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Large_templates"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Large templates</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Large_templates-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Purpose?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Purpose?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Purpose?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">10 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Purpose?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Flag_of_State" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Flag_of_State"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Flag of State</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Flag_of_State-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>Regarding the new <span>{{</span>US state navigation box<span>}}</span></span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Nebraska_template" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Nebraska_template"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Nebraska template</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Nebraska_template-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Template:Montana" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template:Montana"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Template:Montana</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Template:Montana-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Historically_Significant_Cities" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Historically_Significant_Cities"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Historically Significant Cities</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Historically_Significant_Cities-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_different_approach" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_different_approach"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>A different approach</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-A_different_approach-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Aid_for_census_maintenance" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Aid_for_census_maintenance"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>Aid for census maintenance</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Aid_for_census_maintenance-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div 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title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. states">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject U.S. states</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><span data-mw-thread-id="h--2006-03-19T06:31:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h--2006-03-19T06:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="h--2006-03-19T06:31:00.000Z"></span></span><p><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MrD9-2006-03-19T06:31:00.000Z"></span>Note:</i> If for some reason WikiProject U.S. states (or anyone else) decides to delete this page, please instead move it to User:MrD9/state templates. Thanks. //<a href="/wiki/User:MrD9" title="User:MrD9">MrD9</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-MrD9-2006-03-19T06:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:31, 19 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MrD9-2006-03-19T06:31:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MrD9-2006-03-19T06:31:00.000Z"></span> </p> <div style="background-color: #eee; padding: 10px;"> <p><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:15:00.000Z"></span>An effort to standardize U.S. state templates has already begun and is currently in progress.</b> You can assist editors who are contributing to the standardization by either <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit">joining this discussion</a> or, if you are skilled in <a href="/wiki/Cascading_Style_Sheets" class="mw-redirect" title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</a> and wiki markup, restyling the templates so that they conform with already standardized templates such as <a href="/wiki/Template:Alaska" title="Template:Alaska">Template:Alaska</a> and <a href="/wiki/Template:Colorado" title="Template:Colorado">Template:Colorado</a>. </p><p>The following templates are currently being debated, whether here, on templates' talk pages, or on users' talk pages. <i>Please take care when making major edits to them before a consensus is reached.</i> </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Template:Delaware" title="Template:Delaware">Template:Delaware</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Template:Florida" title="Template:Florida">Template:Florida</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Template:Louisiana" title="Template:Louisiana">Template:Louisiana</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Template:Massachusetts" title="Template:Massachusetts">Template:Massachusetts</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Template:Montana" title="Template:Montana">Template:Montana</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Template:Washington" title="Template:Washington">Template:Washington</a></li></ul> </div> <p>— <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:15:00.000Z"></span> </p><p><br/> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Harmonizing_all_U.S._states/state_templates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Harmonizing_all_U.S._states/state_templates-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"><span id="Harmonizing_all_U.S._states.2Fstate_templates"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Harmonizing_all_U.S._states/state_templates-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span>Harmonizing all U.S. states/state templates<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Harmonizing_all_U.S._states/state_templates-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Harmonizing all U.S. states/state templates"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z-Harmonizing_all_U.S._states/state_templates"></span>I think we could start harmonize all U.S. states/state templates. I already harmonized Template:Alaska and Template:Hawaii couple days ago. The reason is that I went to this page <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Canadian_wikipedians%27_notice_board/discussion#Harmonizing_province_templates" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/discussion">Wikipedia:Canadian wikipedians' notice board/discussion#Harmonizing province templates</a> 4 days ago. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BigBang11&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BigBang11 (page does not exist)">User:BigBang11</a> 22 March 2006 21:23 PST (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>I agree with you--while the colors and minor details could be customized for each state, it would be nice if the template sizes, titles, and basic layouts and categories matched each other.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>I attempted to standardize the size of the templates (to see why, see, for example, the bottom of <a href="/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area" title="New York metropolitan area">New York metropolitan area</a>) becuase many pages have more than one state's template on them. I used 94%, which I had seen in a few other places with international templates. You are using 90%. Regardless of what is chosen or is more common, they should all use the same size (preferably the one that is most common on WP in general, since not only state templates appear with state templates on many pages (there are often city/county/international/other ones on pages).</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Additionally, you should potentially provide a link to this page in your edit summaries if possible. //<a href="/wiki/User:MrD9" title="User:MrD9">MrD9</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z-Harmonizing_all_U.S._states/state_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:39, 24 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z-Harmonizing_all_U.S._states/state_templates"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z-Harmonizing_all_U.S._states/state_templates"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:42:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span>I forgot--there should also be a consistent naming format. For example, Rhode Island's template says "The State of Rhode Island," while others say simply "State/Commonwealth of x." I also would suggest wikilinking the State/Commonwealth portion of the title to <a href="/wiki/U.S._state" title="U.S. state">U.S. state</a>, which is standard in many state articles themselves and useful for those unfamiliar with the U.S. //<a href="/wiki/User:MrD9" title="User:MrD9">MrD9</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:42:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:42, 24 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:42:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:42:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T03:40:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span>I've harominzed them a bit, making them all 94% wide with 75px flags (except RI, which is square.) They still need some work, but I think they look better while still having some level of customization. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T03:40:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:40, 27 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T03:40:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T03:40:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:47:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T03:40:00.000Z"></span>As an effort to improve these templates' aesthetics and readibility, I'm going to set the standard font size at 11px and improve all state templates slightly. You can see the beginnings of my efforts for all 50 templates at <a href="/wiki/Template:Colorado" title="Template:Colorado">Template:Colorado</a>. Let me know if you disapprove or think we need a better compromise. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:47:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T03:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:47:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T03:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:47:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T03:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:52:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:47:00.000Z"></span>I think some sort of consensus needs to be reached over the alignment of the links—prior to Lovelac7's standardization, many headings were aligned to the right and the links to the left. Some editors have made the text align back to the left again, resulting in a possible edit war. <b>How should the headings and links be aligned?</b> — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:52:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:52:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:52:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-27T21:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kunzite-2006-08-27T22:53:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span>I'm reverting Louisiana. Please bring changes for dicussion first. Centering each of the sections is a sign of poor graphical design. --<a href="/wiki/User:Kunzite" title="User:Kunzite">Kunzite</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Kunzite-2006-08-27T22:53:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kunzite-2006-08-27T22:53:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kunzite-2006-08-27T22:53:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T22:59:00.000Z-Kunzite-2006-08-27T22:53:00.000Z"></span>I don't care if the links are centered or left/right aligned, just as long as it's somewhat consistant. I chose one style and stuck with it, but I have no preference. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T22:59:00.000Z-Kunzite-2006-08-27T22:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 27 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T22:59:00.000Z-Kunzite-2006-08-27T22:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T22:59:00.000Z-Kunzite-2006-08-27T22:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-28T00:19:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T22:59:00.000Z"></span>Kunzite, what if each section were to be differentiated with a different color, as all of the state templates up to <a href="/wiki/Template:Illinois" title="Template:Illinois">Template:Illinois</a> are on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates">Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates</a>? Please contribute any ideas regarding a possible consensus on how all the links should be aligned. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-08-28T00:19:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T22:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:19, 28 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-28T00:19:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T22:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-08-28T00:19:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-27T22:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:46:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span>I like the left-align better. Centering of the capital row looks bad due to the great amount of blank space between "Capital" and the capital name. --<b><a href="/wiki/User:JW1805" title="User:JW1805">JW1805</a></b> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:JW1805" title="User talk:JW1805">(Talk)</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:46:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:46:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:46:00.000Z-MrD9-2006-03-24T02:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:11:00.000Z-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:46:00.000Z"></span>What about the striping that I've been placing into state templates lately? (See <a href="/wiki/Template:Colorado" title="Template:Colorado">Template:Colorado</a> for an example.) This may be sufficient differentiation between the sections, because the eye can easily travel along the line to the center of the template. Whichever alignment we choose, it might be important to maintain a different color for each section, merely for ease of use and readability. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:11:00.000Z-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:11:00.000Z-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:46:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:11:00.000Z-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:46:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Regarding_standardization_of_state_templates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Regarding_standardization_of_state_templates-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Regarding_standardization_of_state_templates-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z"></span>Regarding standardization of state templates<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Regarding_standardization_of_state_templates-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Regarding standardization of state templates"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stilltim-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z-Regarding_standardization_of_state_templates"></span>I know I am entering this discussion late, but as requested will share my thoughts on nav boxes in general and state templates in particular. Many of us, myself included, have been designing nav boxes for every conceivable purpose, until some of our articles have become bottom heavy, to say the least, with nav boxes. Once several people made this clear to me, I began trying to figure out designs for high level nav boxes that could be used on many articles, and basically lead the reader into the information already in categories. Clearly in the U.S. the various states are an appropriate high level nav box, as is, I think, the Federal Government & Congress. My goal is to see a design that 1) can limit the number of nav boxes on a biography to two or three, 2) can have nav boxes that are small and concise, and 3) can look professional with colors/placement and not just hung together. </p><p>I think this means scaling way back the listings of cities & counties on the state boxes and balancing them with the other categories of information. So if a reader needs to see other Governors, the nav box should lead them into the appropriate category, likewise other cities, and so on. There really is no need to repeat all the counties in a state, or states in the union, every time an article has horizontal applicability. The categories already do that. The arrangement of information on the <a href="/wiki/Template:Delaware" title="Template:Delaware">Template:Delaware</a> is my best attempt so far to achieve this. I'm sure it can be improved upon, but I don't think the current standarization drive helsp or hurts goal 1 or 2, and I think it goes backwards on goal 3. But, I also want standarization and look forward to working with the group to get the best of all worlds accross the board. <a href="/wiki/User:Stilltim" title="User:Stilltim">stilltim</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Stilltim-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z-Regarding_standardization_of_state_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stilltim-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z-Regarding_standardization_of_state_templates"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stilltim-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z-Regarding_standardization_of_state_templates"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-29T20:13:00.000Z-Stilltim-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z"></span>I like this approach, but how can we standardize the topics for each template? For example, Delaware is the only state that has Hundreds. Also, some topics are more popular or important than others; for example, I do not think that [[Category:High schools in XXXX]] should belong in a state template. --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-08-29T20:13:00.000Z-Stilltim-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-29T20:13:00.000Z-Stilltim-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-08-29T20:13:00.000Z-Stilltim-2006-08-28T02:04:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Massachusetts" data-mw-thread-id="h-Massachusetts-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Massachusetts-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z"></span>Massachusetts<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Massachusetts-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Massachusetts"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sahasrahla-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z-Massachusetts"></span>By moving the link to the list of towns from its own line to a "topics" line ignores the fact that towns in New England are more like cities in other states - they are incorporated municipalities that differ from cities in their frame of government, not their state of existence. This type of change should be discussed. Other than that, I think standardization is a wonderful thing. <a href="/wiki/User:Sahasrahla" title="User:Sahasrahla">Sahasrahla</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Sahasrahla-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z-Massachusetts" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:47, 29 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sahasrahla-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z-Massachusetts"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sahasrahla-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z-Massachusetts"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stilltim-2006-08-30T00:18:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z"></span>any standardization will necessarily have to be flexible enough to handle situations like NE towns and Delaware hundreds. <a href="/wiki/User:Stilltim" title="User:Stilltim">stilltim</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Stilltim-2006-08-30T00:18:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stilltim-2006-08-30T00:18:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stilltim-2006-08-30T00:18:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-08-29T23:47:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:13:00.000Z-Stilltim-2006-08-30T00:18:00.000Z"></span>I don't see how NE towns pose a problem for standardization, unless the topics are narrowed down to individual categories. If the topics are general, such as "Cities & Communities", then there is no problem. Hundreds are a different story - they aren't really communities. They could fit under a "Geography" topic that links to <a href="/wiki/Category:Geography_of_Delaware" title="Category:Geography of Delaware">Category:Geography of Delaware</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:13:00.000Z-Stilltim-2006-08-30T00:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:13:00.000Z-Stilltim-2006-08-30T00:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:13:00.000Z-Stilltim-2006-08-30T00:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sahasrahla-2006-08-30T03:55:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:13:00.000Z"></span>What the issue is, is that the new version of the template makes it appear as though cities are somehow superior or of a different nature than towns. The old version had a category on the side, "Towns", that said, "Complete list of the 301 towns." This new version continues to list the 50 cities independently. However, it lumps towns under "Topics" which includes, "Culture · Geography · Government · History · Images · Towns". This is not adequate. <a href="/wiki/Freetown,_Massachusetts" title="Freetown, Massachusetts">Freetown</a>, <a href="/wiki/Tisbury,_Massachusetts" title="Tisbury, Massachusetts">Tisbury</a>, <a href="/wiki/Peru,_Massachusetts" title="Peru, Massachusetts">Peru</a>, and the 298 other towns are no less special than <a href="/wiki/Boston,_Massachusetts" class="mw-redirect" title="Boston, Massachusetts">Boston</a>. I'm not 100% sure what, "Hundreds are a different story - they aren't really communities" means. Surely, it does not mean that the towns are not communities.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>While I have in the past advocated listing all 301 towns, like on <a href="/wiki/Template:New_Hampshire" title="Template:New Hampshire">Template:New Hampshire</a>, I don't really see a problem with the old format of "Towns" and "Complete list...". I <i>do</i> have a problem with towns being treated like something less than what they are, which is what this new version comes across as doing. <a href="/wiki/User:Sahasrahla" title="User:Sahasrahla">Sahasrahla</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Sahasrahla-2006-08-30T03:55:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sahasrahla-2006-08-30T03:55:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sahasrahla-2006-08-30T03:55:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:18:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-08-30T03:55:00.000Z"></span>I agree with you on that, but then it seems like the cities are also more important than Massachusetts culture, government, and history (also listed under "Topics"), which is <i>not</i> true. I like stilltim's idea of arranging <a href="/wiki/Template:Delaware" title="Template:Delaware">Template:Delaware</a> into a list of topics with links to the relevant categories (see Regarding standardization of state templates). This shortens the template, and at the same time does not make one topic seem more special than another.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Regarding the hundreds, I meant that they can't really be treated as communities, since they now only exist as a geographical point of reference. And because Delaware is the only state that has hundreds, there may be a problem with standardization. --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:18:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-08-30T03:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:18:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-08-30T03:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:18:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-08-30T03:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sahasrahla-2006-09-01T10:19:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:18:00.000Z"></span>To those of us who live in towns, they are not merely reference points; but, it's not a big deal. <a href="/wiki/User:Sahasrahla" title="User:Sahasrahla">Sahasrahla</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Sahasrahla-2006-09-01T10:19:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sahasrahla-2006-09-01T10:19:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sahasrahla-2006-09-01T10:19:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-09-02T02:48:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-09-01T10:19:00.000Z"></span>I live in Massachusetts too, and I <i>do</i> agree with you about the towns. Maybe you don't understand what I'm saying. I just want to avoid a general "Topics" section altogether. History, which is also lumped into that section, is equally important as geography (in the case of Massachusetts, arguably more important). The state templates, I believe, are too geography-focused, and I want all topics to be on the same plane. Handling cities/towns is a bit tricky because they can't be considered a single topic - each town/city has a unique geography, history, culture, etc. So, I think there should be a few cities <i>and</i> towns listed; i.e., those communities that have had a significant role in shaping the state. However, since the counties and regions fit more easily into a single category, I think these sections should be removed and replaced with links to the respective categories for the topics. Again, I like stilltim's idea of arranging <a href="/wiki/Template:Delaware" title="Template:Delaware">Template:Delaware</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-09-02T02:48:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-09-01T10:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:48, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-09-02T02:48:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-09-01T10:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-09-02T02:48:00.000Z-Sahasrahla-2006-09-01T10:19:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"><span id="Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"></span>Should the state seal be incorporated into templates?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Should the state seal be incorporated into templates?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z-Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?"></span>A question that came up with Lovelac7's recent edits to <a href="/wiki/Template:Florida" title="Template:Florida">Template:Florida</a> was whether the state seal should be incorporated into its respective state template. I personally believe that the state flag is sufficient—some non-U.S. residents may want a map of the United States with the state highlighted on it, but for now, I believe the solution of keeping the state flag on the right is sufficient. Should the state seal be included in templates? — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z-Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:18, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z-Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z-Should_the_state_seal_be_incorporated_into_templates?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:28:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"></span>No. Some state seals, such as that of Texas are protected by law and are fair use on Wikipedia (see <a href="/w/index.php?title=File:Texas_state_seal.png&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="File:Texas state seal.png (page does not exist)">Image:Texas state seal.png</a>). --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:28:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:28, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:28:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:28:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:44:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:28:00.000Z"></span>This gives us enough reason to remove the state seal that <a href="/wiki/User:JW1805" title="User:JW1805">JW1805</a> added back in. I will go ahead and remove it, including a link to this page in the edit summary. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:44:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:44:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:44:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-08-30T01:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:38:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"></span>The Florida seal is listed as public domain at Wiki Commons. I don't see any reason why every state template should look the same. If a state has an aesthetically pleasing seal and the editors of that template want to include it, that should be OK. Or, if a state has a flag that doesn't really look good at such a low resolution, and they want to put an additional state symbol, that is also OK. No harm is done. --<b><a href="/wiki/User:JW1805" title="User:JW1805">JW1805</a></b> <small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:JW1805" title="User talk:JW1805">(Talk)</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:38:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:38:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:38:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T01:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:06:00.000Z-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:38:00.000Z"></span>I personally think that widespread use of fair use images is not a good idea because of the amount of exposure these state templates will be receiving. I agree with Schzmo in that we should try to keep state templates as much in the public domain as possible. Also, I think it's important that all state templates be concise and too many images will make many state templates seem cluttered. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:06:00.000Z-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:06:00.000Z-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:38:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:06:00.000Z-JW1805-2006-08-30T02:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:30:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:06:00.000Z"></span>And I believe that putting the state template on all related pages would violate the fair use policy, since not all the articles would be about the state government, which holds the copyright. --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:30:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:30:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-08-30T12:30:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-08-30T03:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Show/Hide_tags" data-mw-thread-id="h-Show/Hide_tags-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z"><span id="Show.2FHide_tags"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Show/Hide_tags-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z"></span>Show/Hide tags<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Show/Hide_tags-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Show/Hide tags"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z-Show/Hide_tags"></span>Yesterday, <a href="/wiki/User:The_Future" class="mw-redirect" title="User:The Future">User:The Future</a> redesigned the <a href="/wiki/Template:Montana" title="Template:Montana">Montana template</a> with a class="NavContent", meaning that the bottom part of the template is hidable. I've tried to work this feature into the semi-standards of the other state templates. The Montana experiment looks good on my computer in the <a href="/wiki/Montana" title="Montana">Montana</a> article and in the Template namespace, but for some reason, it looks bad on this page. That, and the [Hide] tag is stuck to far up in the corner. I'm no CSS expert, so if anyone knows how to fix this, jump right in. If we can get it working well enough, I propose that we add it to all templates. What do you think? <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z-Show/Hide_tags" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z-Show/Hide_tags"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z-Show/Hide_tags"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-31T11:42:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z"></span>I'm against it. Adding show/hide tags isn't really going to assist the reader unless the template is very large. Showing the template by default will not make the page any shorter, and hiding it by default means that the reader will have to keep clicking "Show" on each page. If we're trying to make the templates more concise as stilltim suggested, why is it necessary. --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-08-31T11:42:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-08-31T11:42:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-08-31T11:42:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-08-31T09:34:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Future-2006-08-31T19:53:00.000Z-Show/Hide_tags"></span>I like Lovelac7's edit to the template. I tried keeping the same format as is and just add the hide/show, but I couldn't figure it out. (But thanks Lovelac7 for showing me how :P) Schzmo, I understand that you having the template hide/show prevents it from being viewed by default. I believe the hide/show will be effective mostly for articles like <a href="/wiki/George_W._Bush" title="George W. Bush">George W. Bush</a> where the entire bottom of the page is crammed with 4-5 templates. If we hide/showed the templates, it will make it realy much easier for things to be viewed. Suppose that <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Montana" title="Template:Montana">Montana</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> wasn't the only template on one page? Say 2 or 3? If you just want to see one template all you have to do is click the "show" feature and you see that one template, which takes away time from scrolling through the templates. It doesn't take away the consiseness of the template anyways.. Theres really no reason why we should be as lazy as to point and click to view.. — <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC"><a href="/wiki/User:The_Future" class="mw-redirect" title="User:The Future"><font color="00FF00">The Future</font></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-The_Future-2006-08-31T19:53:00.000Z-Show/Hide_tags" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:53, 31 August 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Future-2006-08-31T19:53:00.000Z-Show/Hide_tags"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Future-2006-08-31T19:53:00.000Z-Show/Hide_tags"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-01T00:29:00.000Z-The_Future-2006-08-31T19:53:00.000Z"></span>I'm also against the implementation of show/hide links. They were originally meant for very long templates such as <a href="/wiki/Template:World_War_II" title="Template:World War II">Template:World War II</a> or <a href="/wiki/Template:American_Civil_War" title="Template:American Civil War">Template:American Civil War</a>. These links will only clutter the heading of the template, and part of the original objective in standardizing the templates was to make them both cleaner and more concise. And for something as small as <a href="/wiki/Template:Montana" title="Template:Montana">Template:Montana</a>, the show/hide links are truly unnecessary. As for articles that have multiple templates on their pages, I doubt that using state templates would be necessary for someone who merely spent time or was born in a certain state. After all, a link to the article isn't provided on the template; it's not very sensible. I appreciate your efforts, but I think it's a good idea to discuss it first. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-01T00:29:00.000Z-The_Future-2006-08-31T19:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-01T00:29:00.000Z-The_Future-2006-08-31T19:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-01T00:29:00.000Z-The_Future-2006-08-31T19:53:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ravedave-2006-09-02T03:27:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-01T00:29:00.000Z"></span>I also am against the show/hide links, I am sure older browsers have issues with them. They are probably not good for handicap acessability as well. -<a href="/wiki/User:Ravedave" title="User:Ravedave">Ravedave</a> <small><sup>(<a href="/wiki/User:Ravedave/babyname" title="User:Ravedave/babyname">help name my baby</a>)</sup></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Ravedave-2006-09-02T03:27:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-01T00:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ravedave-2006-09-02T03:27:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-01T00:29:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ravedave-2006-09-02T03:27:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-01T00:29:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Font_size" data-mw-thread-id="h-Font_size-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Font_size-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z"></span>Font size<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Font_size-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Font size"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z-Font_size"></span>Recently Lovelac7 has been making edits to templates changing a standard I was following by modifying the font size of headings from 16px to 12px. I believe 16px is a better font size for readability and discernability. We need to establish the heading font size quickly. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z-Font_size" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 1 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z-Font_size"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z-Font_size"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T05:26:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z"></span>I'm fine with 16px.<a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T05:26:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:26, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T05:26:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T05:26:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-01T21:42:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Straw_Polls" data-mw-thread-id="h-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span>Straw Polls<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Straw Polls"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p>To figure out what the consensus is, I'd like to summarize some of the debates from above. Like other "votes" on the Wikipedia, the argument is more important than the vote. Let's begin. <i>Note: This straw poll is not official for all state templates. Those being debated do not need to conform to the results.</i> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading5"><h5 id="Header_font_size" data-mw-thread-id="h-Header_font_size-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Header_font_size-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span>Header font size<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Header_font_size-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span></h5><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Header font size"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><s><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Header_font_size"></span>16px.</b></s>. I originally was changing them all to 12px, but since Webdinger brought it up, I've been doing 16. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Header_font_size" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Header_font_size"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Header_font_size"></span> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-04T18:51:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span>87%</b> for the content, and <b>145%</b> for the headline, per Fred Bradstadt. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-09-04T18:51:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:51, 4 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-04T18:51:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-04T18:51:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-05T02:31:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-04T18:51:00.000Z"></span>150% is equivalent to 16px, not 145%. 145% isn't as noticeable as 150% is. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-05T02:31:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-04T18:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-05T02:31:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-04T18:51:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-05T02:31:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-04T18:51:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul></li> <li><s><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Header_font_size"></span>16px.</b></s> <ins>See above.</ins> For aesthetics and readability. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Header_font_size" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Header_font_size"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Header_font_size"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fred_Bradstadt-2006-09-03T19:33:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"></span>Please don't specify sizes in <b>px</b> - use percentages or keywords (large, small, x-small) instead. --<a href="/wiki/User:Fred_Bradstadt" title="User:Fred Bradstadt">Fred Bradstadt</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Fred_Bradstadt-2006-09-03T19:33:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:33, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fred_Bradstadt-2006-09-03T19:33:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fred_Bradstadt-2006-09-03T19:33:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading5"><h5 id="Text_alignment" data-mw-thread-id="h-Text_alignment-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Text_alignment-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span>Text alignment<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Text_alignment-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span></h5><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Text alignment"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Text_alignment"></span>Center.</b> I find the templates most readable when both the section headers and items are centered, with light gray (#eee) striping for legibility. The alternative would be right justification on the section headers, and left justification in each item section <i>à la</i> Canadian provincial templates. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Text_alignment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Text_alignment"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Text_alignment"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Text_alignment"></span>Center.</b> With striping, as expertly laid out by Lovelac7. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Text_alignment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Text_alignment"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Text_alignment"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:35:00.000Z-Text_alignment"></span>Left</b></li></ul> <center>This is freshman-level design. Centering blocks of text is really *poor* design. "Align elements along "hard vertical edges. If instead of centering your text, you align the text on the left or the right, the invisible line that connects the text is much stronger because it has a hard vertical edge to follow. <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/Design/graprin.htm">[1]</a>. <p>I've centered this text. Is this easy to read? No. </p> These lists should be aligned to the left. What happens with centering is that there is usually a word left "hanging" at the end of the article. The other thing that takes me back to my Uni days where one of my graphic design professor used to put-down his students for poor design is that no-one on Wikipedia seems to know how to valign=top. The default horizontal alignment to the center looks so unprofessional. Valign top is also much easier to follow. --<a href="/wiki/User:Kunzite" title="User:Kunzite">Kunzite</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:35:00.000Z-Text_alignment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:35:00.000Z-Text_alignment"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:35:00.000Z-Text_alignment"></span></center> <ul><li><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:35:00.000Z"></span>Kunzite, you've got a very valid argument, and originally, I formatted <a href="/wiki/Template:Colorado" title="Template:Colorado">Template:Colorado</a> so that it would be aligned to the left. I added in some striping so that users would be able to discern between areas of study. If we were to align text to the left, would striping be necessary? Also, how much padding would be inserted between the left-aligned text and the edges of the headings on the left? And is aligning to the center <i>really</i> a bad thing? I think it adds a lot aesthetically. Thanks! ;) — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:35:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading5"><h5 id="Coats_of_arms" data-mw-thread-id="h-Coats_of_arms-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Coats_of_arms-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span>Coats of arms<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Coats_of_arms-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span></h5><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Coats of arms"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"></span>Omit.</b>. The Wikipedia rules about Fair Use have become stricter, and since some state seals are copyrighted, this might be a problem. I've also had a problem with centering the headed when inserting a coat of arms. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-09-03T01:27:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"></span>Omit.</b> First, the fair use argument as mentioned above. Second, the state flag by itself is sufficient, since most people are more familiar with the state flag than the state coat of arms. --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-09-03T01:27:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:27, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-09-03T01:27:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-09-03T01:27:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T01:35:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"></span>Usage per state</b> Not all states are Texas (thank god). Let the states whose seal is in fair use use the seal. --<a href="/wiki/User:Kunzite" title="User:Kunzite">Kunzite</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T01:35:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T01:35:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T01:35:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"></span>Omit.</b> The inclusion of seals/coats of arms in certain states would be inconsistent and be strange in articles that use multiple state templates. Agree with Schzmo and Lovelac7 in this respect. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Coats_of_arms"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading5"><h5 id="Show/hide_tags_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Show/hide_tags_2-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"><span id="Show.2Fhide_tags_2"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Show/hide_tags_2-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span>Show/hide tags<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Show/hide_tags_2-Straw_Polls-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z"></span></h5><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Show/hide tags"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"></span>Omit.</b> I think this would be agreat idea if we could do it well, but there are a lot of browser incompatibilies that might make the templates too <a href="/wiki/Template:Esoteric" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Esoteric">esoteric</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-02T23:18:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"></span>Omit.</b> State templates are not long enough. For an example, see <a href="/wiki/Template:War_on_Terrorism" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:War on Terrorism">Template:War on Terrorism</a> for correct usage. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Susanlesch-2007-03-09T06:01:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"></span>Usage per state.</b> Please include this feature for at least two reasons. For one, some states run long (the template is used differently in different states). And some pages (not only state pages) have many screenfuls of various templates at the end. Thank you. -<a href="/wiki/User:Susanlesch" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Susanlesch">Susanlesch</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Susanlesch-2007-03-09T06:01:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Susanlesch-2007-03-09T06:01:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Susanlesch-2007-03-09T06:01:00.000Z-Show/hide_tags_2"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading5"><h5 id="Topics_section" data-mw-thread-id="h-Topics_section-Straw_Polls-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Topics_section-Straw_Polls-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"></span>Topics section<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Topics_section-Straw_Polls-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"></span></h5><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Topics section"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Topics_section"></span>Expand focus beyond geography</b> Ideally, each template should have individual sections for geography, history, culture, etc. In the mean time, I'm trying to make the Misc. Topics sections look conistant. 23:18, 2 September 2006 (UTC)</li> <li><b>Expand focus beyond geography.</b> Agreed. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Topics_section" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Topics_section"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Topics_section"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading5"><h5 id="Inclusion_of_sections" data-mw-thread-id="h-Inclusion_of_sections-Straw_Polls-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Inclusion_of_sections-Straw_Polls-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"></span>Inclusion of sections<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Inclusion_of_sections-Straw_Polls-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z"></span></h5><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Inclusion of sections"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><b><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"></span>Capital</s>, regions, largest cities/cities, counties, topics (at bottom). <ins>Include capital in header per Lovelac7.</ins></b> Just thought I'd bring this aspect up. Many state templates have different sections. I think it'd be best to standardize those also. The order I've laid out is possibly the most logical in terms of organization. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:00:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:21:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"></span>Remove capital</b> it's a waste of space to include a separate line for a place that will be listed with the largest cities. Simply bold the name and put (capital) behind it. --<a href="/wiki/User:Kunzite" title="User:Kunzite">Kunzite</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:21:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:21:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kunzite-2006-09-03T05:21:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Schzmo-2006-09-03T11:36:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"></span>Keep capital</b>, put in box header, like "State of North Dakota (Capital: Bismarck)". <b>Remove regions and counties</b> If we want expand the focus beyond geography, including regions and counties might make the template very long. What will happen with Texas, which has 254 counties? I'd suggest adding links to the categories rather than putting them all on the template. --<a href="/wiki/User:Schzmo" title="User:Schzmo">Schzmo</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Schzmo-2006-09-03T11:36:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:36, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Schzmo-2006-09-03T11:36:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Schzmo-2006-09-03T11:36:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stilltim-2006-09-03T12:35:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-09-03T11:36:00.000Z"></span>Agreed strongly. Having all this data on generic nav box is too much. If you must, create a specfic geography nav box for the few times that would be useful, but only a small, topical (to use someone else's phrase) nav box will be generally useful. Once that is settlred, someone with design talent needs to make it look good. Maybe two paths need to be taken here, or maybe a rest in the debate would be useful to let some of this good thinking sink in. Please keep in mind that a good editor figures out what is imortant and discards the rest, because it distracts the reader from the important stuff. KISS (if you know what I mean). <a href="/wiki/User:Stilltim" title="User:Stilltim">stilltim</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Stilltim-2006-09-03T12:35:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-09-03T11:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stilltim-2006-09-03T12:35:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-09-03T11:36:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stilltim-2006-09-03T12:35:00.000Z-Schzmo-2006-09-03T11:36:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T16:57:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"></span>Remove capital, counties, and smaller cities</b> but <b>keep regions</b>. Of all the geographical categories, the region box takes up the least amount of space. It also puts some focus on physical and cultural geography, as opposed to the political geography of counties, towns, CDPs, metros, etc. As for the capital, I like Kunzite's idea of bolding it and putting it with a list of major cities. We could also use Schzmo's idea of putting it directly in the header, something like below. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T16:57:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:57, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T16:57:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T16:57:00.000Z-Inclusion_of_sections"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T18:58:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T16:57:00.000Z"></span>I like that idea. It complements our objective of consistency. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T18:58:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T16:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T18:58:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T16:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T18:58:00.000Z-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T16:57:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <table class="toccolours" align="center" width="94%" style="font-size: 11px; text-align:center; clear:both;"> <tbody><tr> <th style="background-color: #00009E;" width="75"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Michigan.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Flag of Michigan"><img alt="Flag of Michigan" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Flag_of_Michigan.svg/75px-Flag_of_Michigan.svg.png" decoding="async" width="75" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Flag_of_Michigan.svg/113px-Flag_of_Michigan.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b5/Flag_of_Michigan.svg/150px-Flag_of_Michigan.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="685" data-file-height="457"/></a></span> </th> <td style="background-color: #acf; font-size: 16px;"><b><a href="/wiki/U.S._state" title="U.S. state">State</a> of <a href="/wiki/Michigan" title="Michigan">Michigan</a></b><br/><span style="font-size:11px;"><a href="/wiki/Lansing,_Michigan" title="Lansing, Michigan">Lansing</a> (<a href="/wiki/List_of_capitals_in_the_United_States" title="List of capitals in the United States">Capital</a>)</span> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Washington" data-mw-thread-id="h-Washington-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Washington-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z"></span>Washington<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Washington-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Washington"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table class="toccolours" align="center" width="94%" style="margin:0.5em 1em; clear:both"> <tbody><tr> <th><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matt_Yeager-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z-Washington"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Washington.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Flag of Washington"><img alt="Flag of Washington" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Washington.svg/100px-Flag_of_Washington.svg.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="59" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Washington.svg/150px-Flag_of_Washington.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Washington.svg/200px-Flag_of_Washington.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1106" data-file-height="658"/></a></span> </th> <th style="background:#BBDDBB;"> <p><font size="+1"><b><a href="/wiki/U.S._state" title="U.S. state">State</a> of <a href="/wiki/Washington_(U.S._state)" class="mw-redirect" title="Washington (U.S. state)">Washington</a></b></font><br/><small> <a href="/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="List of cities in Washington">Cities</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_towns_in_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="List of towns in Washington">Towns</a> | <a href="/wiki/City_government_in_the_State_of_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="City government in the State of Washington">Municipalities</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Governors of Washington">Governors</a> | <a href="/wiki/Washington_State_Legislature" title="Washington State Legislature">Legislature</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_initiatives_to_the_people" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Washington initiatives to the people">Initiatives to the People</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_initiatives_to_the_legislature" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Washington initiatives to the legislature">Initiatives to the Legislature</a> | <a href="/wiki/Washington_state_congressional_delegates" class="mw-redirect" title="Washington state congressional delegates">Congress</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_state_symbols" title="List of Washington state symbols">Symbols</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_state_parks" title="List of Washington state parks">Parks</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_state_highways" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Washington state highways">Roads</a> | <a href="/wiki/Music_of_Washington" title="Music of Washington">Music</a> </small></p><small> </small></th></tr> <tr> <th><b><a href="/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_capitals" class="mw-redirect" title="List of U.S. state capitals">State capital</a>:</b> </th> <td> <p><a href="/wiki/Olympia,_Washington" title="Olympia, Washington">Olympia</a> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <th><b><a href="/wiki/Regions_of_the_United_States#Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="Regions of the United States">Regions</a>:</b> </th> <td> <p><a href="/wiki/Central_Washington" title="Central Washington">Central Washington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Columbia_River_Plateau" class="mw-redirect" title="Columbia River Plateau">Columbia River Plateau</a> | <a href="/wiki/Eastern_Washington" title="Eastern Washington">Eastern Washington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Inland_Empire_(Pacific_Northwest)" class="mw-redirect" title="Inland Empire (Pacific Northwest)">Inland Empire</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kitsap_Peninsula" title="Kitsap Peninsula">Kitsap Peninsula</a> | <a href="/wiki/Olympic_Peninsula" title="Olympic Peninsula">Olympic Peninsula</a> | <a href="/wiki/Okanogan_Country" class="mw-redirect" title="Okanogan Country">Okanogan Country</a> | <a href="/wiki/Palouse" title="Palouse">Palouse</a> | <a href="/wiki/Puget_Sound" title="Puget Sound">Puget Sound</a> | <a href="/wiki/San_Juan_Islands" title="San Juan Islands">San Juan Islands</a> | <a href="/wiki/Western_Washington" title="Western Washington">Western Washington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Yakima_Valley" class="mw-disambig" title="Yakima Valley">Yakima Valley</a> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <th><b>Major cities:</b> </th> <td> <p><a href="/wiki/Bellevue,_Washington" title="Bellevue, Washington">Bellevue</a> | <a href="/wiki/Seattle,_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="Seattle, Washington">Seattle</a> | <a href="/wiki/Spokane,_Washington" title="Spokane, Washington">Spokane</a> | <a href="/wiki/Tacoma,_Washington" title="Tacoma, Washington">Tacoma</a> | <a href="/wiki/Tri-Cities,_Washington" title="Tri-Cities, Washington">Tri-Cities</a> | <a href="/wiki/Vancouver,_Washington" title="Vancouver, Washington">Vancouver</a> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <th><b>Smaller cities:</b> </th> <td><small> <p><a href="/wiki/Aberdeen,_Washington" title="Aberdeen, Washington">Aberdeen</a> | <a href="/wiki/Anacortes,_Washington" title="Anacortes, Washington">Anacortes</a> | <a href="/wiki/Arlington,_Washington" title="Arlington, Washington">Arlington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Auburn,_Washington" title="Auburn, Washington">Auburn</a> | <a href="/wiki/Bainbridge_Island,_Washington" title="Bainbridge Island, Washington">Bainbridge Island</a> | <a href="/wiki/Bellingham,_Washington" title="Bellingham, Washington">Bellingham</a> | <a href="/wiki/Bothell,_Washington" title="Bothell, Washington">Bothell</a> | <a href="/wiki/Bremerton,_Washington" title="Bremerton, Washington">Bremerton</a> | <a href="/wiki/Burien,_Washington" title="Burien, Washington">Burien</a> | <a href="/wiki/Centralia,_Washington" title="Centralia, Washington">Centralia</a> | <a href="/wiki/Covington,_Washington" title="Covington, Washington">Covington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Des_Moines,_Washington" title="Des Moines, Washington">Des Moines</a> | <a href="/wiki/Edmonds,_Washington" title="Edmonds, Washington">Edmonds</a> | <a href="/wiki/Ellensburg,_Washington" title="Ellensburg, Washington">Ellensburg</a> | <a href="/wiki/Enumclaw,_Washington" title="Enumclaw, Washington">Enumclaw</a> | <a href="/wiki/Everett,_Washington" title="Everett, Washington">Everett</a> | <a href="/wiki/Federal_Way,_Washington" title="Federal Way, Washington">Federal Way</a> | <a href="/wiki/Issaquah,_Washington" title="Issaquah, Washington">Issaquah</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kenmore,_Washington" title="Kenmore, Washington">Kenmore</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kennewick,_Washington" title="Kennewick, Washington">Kennewick</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kent,_Washington" title="Kent, Washington">Kent</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kirkland,_Washington" title="Kirkland, Washington">Kirkland</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lacey,_Washington" title="Lacey, Washington">Lacey</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lake_Forest_Park,_Washington" title="Lake Forest Park, Washington">Lake Forest Park</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lakewood,_Washington" title="Lakewood, Washington">Lakewood</a> | <a href="/wiki/Longview,_Washington" title="Longview, Washington">Longview</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lynnwood,_Washington" title="Lynnwood, Washington"> Lynnwood</a> | <a href="/wiki/Maple_Valley,_Washington" title="Maple Valley, Washington">Maple Valley</a> | <a href="/wiki/Marysville,_Washington" title="Marysville, Washington">Marysville</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mercer_Island,_Washington" title="Mercer Island, Washington">Mercer Island</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mill_Creek,_Washington" title="Mill Creek, Washington">Mill Creek</a> | <a href="/wiki/Monroe,_Washington" title="Monroe, Washington">Monroe</a> | <a href="/wiki/Moses_Lake,_Washington" title="Moses Lake, Washington">Moses Lake</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mount_Vernon,_Washington" title="Mount Vernon, Washington">Mount Vernon</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mountlake_Terrace,_Washington" title="Mountlake Terrace, Washington">Mountlake Terrace</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mukilteo,_Washington" title="Mukilteo, Washington">Mukilteo</a> | <a href="/wiki/Oak_Harbor,_Washington" title="Oak Harbor, Washington">Oak Harbor</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pasco,_Washington" title="Pasco, Washington">Pasco</a> | <a href="/wiki/Port_Angeles,_Washington" title="Port Angeles, Washington">Port Angeles</a> | <a href="/wiki/Port_Orchard,_Washington" title="Port Orchard, Washington">Port Orchard</a> | <a href="/wiki/Port_Townsend,_Washington" title="Port Townsend, Washington">Port Townsend</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pullman,_Washington" title="Pullman, Washington">Pullman</a> | <a href="/wiki/Puyallup,_Washington" title="Puyallup, Washington">Puyallup</a> | <a href="/wiki/Redmond,_Washington" title="Redmond, Washington">Redmond</a> | <a href="/wiki/Renton,_Washington" title="Renton, Washington">Renton</a> | <a href="/wiki/Richland,_Washington" title="Richland, Washington">Richland</a> | <a href="/wiki/Sammamish,_Washington" title="Sammamish, Washington">Sammamish</a> | <a href="/wiki/SeaTac,_Washington" title="SeaTac, Washington">SeaTac</a> | <a href="/wiki/Shoreline,_Washington" title="Shoreline, Washington">Shoreline</a> | <a href="/wiki/Spokane_Valley,_Washington" title="Spokane Valley, Washington">Spokane Valley</a> | <a href="/wiki/Tukwila,_Washington" title="Tukwila, Washington">Tukwila</a> | <a href="/wiki/University_Place,_Washington" title="University Place, Washington">University Place</a> | <a href="/wiki/Walla_Walla,_Washington" title="Walla Walla, Washington">Walla Walla</a> | <a href="/wiki/Wenatchee,_Washington" title="Wenatchee, Washington">Wenatchee</a> | <a href="/wiki/Woodinville,_Washington" title="Woodinville, Washington">Woodinville</a> | <a href="/wiki/Yakima,_Washington" title="Yakima, Washington">Yakima</a> </p> </small></td></tr> <tr> <th><b><a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_counties" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Washington counties">Counties</a>:</b> </th> <td><small> <p><a href="/wiki/Adams_County,_Washington" title="Adams County, Washington">Adams</a> | <a href="/wiki/Asotin_County,_Washington" title="Asotin County, Washington">Asotin</a> | <a href="/wiki/Benton_County,_Washington" title="Benton County, Washington">Benton</a> | <a href="/wiki/Chelan_County,_Washington" title="Chelan County, Washington">Chelan</a> | <a href="/wiki/Clallam_County,_Washington" title="Clallam County, Washington">Clallam</a> | <a href="/wiki/Clark_County,_Washington" title="Clark County, Washington">Clark</a> | <a href="/wiki/Columbia_County,_Washington" title="Columbia County, Washington">Columbia</a> | <a href="/wiki/Cowlitz_County,_Washington" title="Cowlitz County, Washington">Cowlitz</a> | <a href="/wiki/Douglas_County,_Washington" title="Douglas County, Washington">Douglas</a> | <a href="/wiki/Ferry_County,_Washington" title="Ferry County, Washington">Ferry</a> | <a href="/wiki/Franklin_County,_Washington" title="Franklin County, Washington">Franklin</a> | <a href="/wiki/Garfield_County,_Washington" title="Garfield County, Washington">Garfield</a> | <a href="/wiki/Grant_County,_Washington" title="Grant County, Washington">Grant</a> | <a href="/wiki/Grays_Harbor_County,_Washington" title="Grays Harbor County, Washington">Grays Harbor</a> | <a href="/wiki/Island_County,_Washington" title="Island County, Washington">Island</a> | <a href="/wiki/Jefferson_County,_Washington" title="Jefferson County, Washington">Jefferson</a> | <a href="/wiki/King_County,_Washington" title="King County, Washington">King</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kitsap_County,_Washington" title="Kitsap County, Washington">Kitsap</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kittitas_County,_Washington" title="Kittitas County, Washington">Kittitas</a> | <a href="/wiki/Klickitat_County,_Washington" title="Klickitat County, Washington">Klickitat</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lewis_County,_Washington" title="Lewis County, Washington">Lewis</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lincoln_County,_Washington" title="Lincoln County, Washington">Lincoln</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mason_County,_Washington" title="Mason County, Washington">Mason</a> | <a href="/wiki/Okanogan_County,_Washington" title="Okanogan County, Washington">Okanogan</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pacific_County,_Washington" title="Pacific County, Washington">Pacific</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pend_Oreille_County,_Washington" title="Pend Oreille County, Washington">Pend Oreille</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pierce_County,_Washington" title="Pierce County, Washington">Pierce</a> | <a href="/wiki/San_Juan_County,_Washington" title="San Juan County, Washington">San Juan</a> | <a href="/wiki/Skagit_County,_Washington" title="Skagit County, Washington">Skagit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Skamania_County,_Washington" title="Skamania County, Washington">Skamania</a> | <a href="/wiki/Snohomish_County,_Washington" title="Snohomish County, Washington">Snohomish</a> | <a href="/wiki/Spokane_County,_Washington" title="Spokane County, Washington">Spokane</a> | <a href="/wiki/Stevens_County,_Washington" title="Stevens County, Washington">Stevens</a> | <a href="/wiki/Thurston_County,_Washington" title="Thurston County, Washington">Thurston</a> | <a href="/wiki/Wahkiakum_County,_Washington" title="Wahkiakum County, Washington">Wahkiakum</a> | <a href="/wiki/Walla_Walla_County,_Washington" title="Walla Walla County, Washington">Walla Walla</a> | <a href="/wiki/Whatcom_County,_Washington" title="Whatcom County, Washington">Whatcom</a> | <a href="/wiki/Whitman_County,_Washington" title="Whitman County, Washington">Whitman</a> | <a href="/wiki/Yakima_County,_Washington" title="Yakima County, Washington">Yakima</a> </p> </small></td></tr> </tbody></table> <p>See, in this form, it looks nice and simple. Why must it be standardized? I'm sorry, I just don't get it (pardon my curtness, I realize your goals are probably good, I just don't fully understand)... <a href="/wiki/User:Matt_Yeager" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Matt Yeager"><b style="color:#DF0001;">Matt Yeager</b></a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Special:Random"><b style="font-size:medium; color:#B46611;">♫</b></a> <span style="color:#00AA88;">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matt_Yeager" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Matt Yeager"><span style="color:#00AA88;">Talk?</span></a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Matt_Yeager-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z-Washington" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matt_Yeager-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z-Washington"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matt_Yeager-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z-Washington"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:03:00.000Z-Matt_Yeager-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z"></span>Thanks for asking, Matt. Some of us have become really worried about how most state templates look right now; if you look at all of the templates put together on the same page (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates">Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states/state templates</a>) they don't look good together (although they've improved quite a bit). We'd just like to establish some guidelines so they don't all end up as ugly as they have become. Many of the state templates were fine, but there were quite a few that really did not look good and did not complement the others. — <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:03:00.000Z-Matt_Yeager-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:03:00.000Z-Matt_Yeager-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:03:00.000Z-Matt_Yeager-2006-09-03T04:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T06:19:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:03:00.000Z"></span>Matt, I've added in some of Kunzite's suggestions, such as left-aligning the main content. Hopefully you'll like this one more. <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7"><span style="font-family:times new roman, times; color:#006633;">Lovelac7</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T06:19:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T06:19:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:03:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lovelac7-2006-09-03T06:19:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-03T05:03:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <table class="toccolours" align="center" width="94%" style="text-align:left; font-size:11px; clear:both"> <tbody><tr> <th bgcolor="#008457" width="75"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Washington.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Flag of Washington"><img alt="Flag of Washington" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Washington.svg/75px-Flag_of_Washington.svg.png" decoding="async" width="75" height="45" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Washington.svg/113px-Flag_of_Washington.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/54/Flag_of_Washington.svg/150px-Flag_of_Washington.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1106" data-file-height="658"/></a></span> </th> <th style="background:#BBDDBB; text-align:center; font-size:16px;"><b><a href="/wiki/U.S._state" title="U.S. state">State</a> of <a href="/wiki/Washington_(U.S._state)" class="mw-redirect" title="Washington (U.S. state)">Washington</a></b> </th></tr> <tr> <th style="background:#BBDDBB; text-align:center;"><b><a href="/wiki/Category:Washington" class="mw-disambig" title="Category:Washington">Topics</a></b> </th> <td> <p><a href="/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="List of cities in Washington">Cities</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_towns_in_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="List of towns in Washington">Towns</a> | <a href="/wiki/City_government_in_the_State_of_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="City government in the State of Washington">Municipalities</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Governors of Washington">Governors</a> | <a href="/wiki/Washington_State_Legislature" title="Washington State Legislature">Legislature</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_initiatives_to_the_people" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Washington initiatives to the people">Initiatives to the People</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_initiatives_to_the_legislature" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Washington initiatives to the legislature">Initiatives to the Legislature</a> | <a href="/wiki/Washington_state_congressional_delegates" class="mw-redirect" title="Washington state congressional delegates">Congress</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_state_symbols" title="List of Washington state symbols">Symbols</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_state_parks" title="List of Washington state parks">Parks</a> | <a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_state_highways" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Washington state highways">Roads</a> | <a href="/wiki/Music_of_Washington" title="Music of Washington">Music</a> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background:#BBDDBB; text-align:center;"><b><a href="/wiki/List_of_capitals_in_the_United_States" title="List of capitals in the United States">Capital</a></b> </th> <td style="background:#eeeeee;"> <p><a href="/wiki/Olympia,_Washington" title="Olympia, Washington">Olympia</a> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background:#BBDDBB; text-align:center;"><b><a href="/wiki/Regions_of_the_United_States#Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="Regions of the United States">Regions</a></b> </th> <td> <p><a href="/wiki/Central_Washington" title="Central Washington">Central Washington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Columbia_River_Plateau" class="mw-redirect" title="Columbia River Plateau">Columbia River Plateau</a> | <a href="/wiki/Eastern_Washington" title="Eastern Washington">Eastern Washington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Inland_Empire_(Pacific_Northwest)" class="mw-redirect" title="Inland Empire (Pacific Northwest)">Inland Empire</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kitsap_Peninsula" title="Kitsap Peninsula">Kitsap Peninsula</a> | <a href="/wiki/Long_Beach_Peninsula" title="Long Beach Peninsula">Long Beach Peninsula</a> | <a href="/wiki/Olympic_Peninsula" title="Olympic Peninsula">Olympic Peninsula</a> | <a href="/wiki/Okanogan_Country" class="mw-redirect" title="Okanogan Country">Okanogan Country</a> | <a href="/wiki/Palouse" title="Palouse">Palouse</a> | <a href="/wiki/Puget_Sound" title="Puget Sound">Puget Sound</a> | <a href="/wiki/San_Juan_Islands" title="San Juan Islands">San Juan Islands</a> | <a href="/wiki/Western_Washington" title="Western Washington">Western Washington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Yakima_Valley" class="mw-disambig" title="Yakima Valley">Yakima Valley</a> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background:#BBDDBB; text-align:center;"><b><a href="/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="List of cities in Washington">Major<br/>cities</a></b> </th> <td style="background:#eeeeee;"> <p><a href="/wiki/Bellevue,_Washington" title="Bellevue, Washington">Bellevue</a> | <a href="/wiki/Seattle,_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="Seattle, Washington">Seattle</a> | <a href="/wiki/Spokane,_Washington" title="Spokane, Washington">Spokane</a> | <a href="/wiki/Tacoma,_Washington" title="Tacoma, Washington">Tacoma</a> | <a href="/wiki/Tri-Cities,_Washington" title="Tri-Cities, Washington">Tri-Cities</a> | <a href="/wiki/Vancouver,_Washington" title="Vancouver, Washington">Vancouver</a> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background:#BBDDBB; text-align:center;"><b><a href="/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Washington" class="mw-redirect" title="List of cities in Washington">Smaller<br/>cities</a></b> </th> <td> <p><a href="/wiki/Aberdeen,_Washington" title="Aberdeen, Washington">Aberdeen</a> | <a href="/wiki/Anacortes,_Washington" title="Anacortes, Washington">Anacortes</a> | <a href="/wiki/Arlington,_Washington" title="Arlington, Washington">Arlington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Auburn,_Washington" title="Auburn, Washington">Auburn</a> | <a href="/wiki/Bainbridge_Island,_Washington" title="Bainbridge Island, Washington">Bainbridge Island</a> | <a href="/wiki/Bellingham,_Washington" title="Bellingham, Washington">Bellingham</a> | <a href="/wiki/Bothell,_Washington" title="Bothell, Washington">Bothell</a> | <a href="/wiki/Bremerton,_Washington" title="Bremerton, Washington">Bremerton</a> | <a href="/wiki/Burien,_Washington" title="Burien, Washington">Burien</a> | <a href="/wiki/Centralia,_Washington" title="Centralia, Washington">Centralia</a> | <a href="/wiki/Covington,_Washington" title="Covington, Washington">Covington</a> | <a href="/wiki/Des_Moines,_Washington" title="Des Moines, Washington">Des Moines</a> | <a href="/wiki/Edmonds,_Washington" title="Edmonds, Washington">Edmonds</a> | <a href="/wiki/Ellensburg,_Washington" title="Ellensburg, Washington">Ellensburg</a> | <a href="/wiki/Enumclaw,_Washington" title="Enumclaw, Washington">Enumclaw</a> | <a href="/wiki/Everett,_Washington" title="Everett, Washington">Everett</a> | <a href="/wiki/Federal_Way,_Washington" title="Federal Way, Washington">Federal Way</a> | <a href="/wiki/Issaquah,_Washington" title="Issaquah, Washington">Issaquah</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kenmore,_Washington" title="Kenmore, Washington">Kenmore</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kennewick,_Washington" title="Kennewick, Washington">Kennewick</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kent,_Washington" title="Kent, Washington">Kent</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kirkland,_Washington" title="Kirkland, Washington">Kirkland</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lacey,_Washington" title="Lacey, Washington">Lacey</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lake_Forest_Park,_Washington" title="Lake Forest Park, Washington">Lake Forest Park</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lakewood,_Washington" title="Lakewood, Washington">Lakewood</a> | <a href="/wiki/Longview,_Washington" title="Longview, Washington">Longview</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lynnwood,_Washington" title="Lynnwood, Washington"> Lynnwood</a> | <a href="/wiki/Maple_Valley,_Washington" title="Maple Valley, Washington">Maple Valley</a> | <a href="/wiki/Marysville,_Washington" title="Marysville, Washington">Marysville</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mercer_Island,_Washington" title="Mercer Island, Washington">Mercer Island</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mill_Creek,_Washington" title="Mill Creek, Washington">Mill Creek</a> | <a href="/wiki/Monroe,_Washington" title="Monroe, Washington">Monroe</a> | <a href="/wiki/Moses_Lake,_Washington" title="Moses Lake, Washington">Moses Lake</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mount_Vernon,_Washington" title="Mount Vernon, Washington">Mount Vernon</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mountlake_Terrace,_Washington" title="Mountlake Terrace, Washington">Mountlake Terrace</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mukilteo,_Washington" title="Mukilteo, Washington">Mukilteo</a> | <a href="/wiki/Oak_Harbor,_Washington" title="Oak Harbor, Washington">Oak Harbor</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pasco,_Washington" title="Pasco, Washington">Pasco</a> | <a href="/wiki/Port_Angeles,_Washington" title="Port Angeles, Washington">Port Angeles</a> | <a href="/wiki/Port_Orchard,_Washington" title="Port Orchard, Washington">Port Orchard</a> | <a href="/wiki/Port_Townsend,_Washington" title="Port Townsend, Washington">Port Townsend</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pullman,_Washington" title="Pullman, Washington">Pullman</a> | <a href="/wiki/Puyallup,_Washington" title="Puyallup, Washington">Puyallup</a> | <a href="/wiki/Redmond,_Washington" title="Redmond, Washington">Redmond</a> | <a href="/wiki/Renton,_Washington" title="Renton, Washington">Renton</a> | <a href="/wiki/Richland,_Washington" title="Richland, Washington">Richland</a> | <a href="/wiki/Sammamish,_Washington" title="Sammamish, Washington">Sammamish</a> | <a href="/wiki/SeaTac,_Washington" title="SeaTac, Washington">SeaTac</a> | <a href="/wiki/Shoreline,_Washington" title="Shoreline, Washington">Shoreline</a> | <a href="/wiki/Spokane_Valley,_Washington" title="Spokane Valley, Washington">Spokane Valley</a> | <a href="/wiki/Tukwila,_Washington" title="Tukwila, Washington">Tukwila</a> | <a href="/wiki/University_Place,_Washington" title="University Place, Washington">University Place</a> | <a href="/wiki/Walla_Walla,_Washington" title="Walla Walla, Washington">Walla Walla</a> | <a href="/wiki/Wenatchee,_Washington" title="Wenatchee, Washington">Wenatchee</a> | <a href="/wiki/Woodinville,_Washington" title="Woodinville, Washington">Woodinville</a> | <a href="/wiki/Yakima,_Washington" title="Yakima, Washington">Yakima</a> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <th style="background:#BBDDBB; text-align:center;"><b><a href="/wiki/List_of_Washington_counties" class="mw-redirect" title="List of Washington counties">Counties</a></b> </th> <td style="background:#eeeeee;"> <p><a href="/wiki/Adams_County,_Washington" title="Adams County, Washington">Adams</a> | <a href="/wiki/Asotin_County,_Washington" title="Asotin County, Washington">Asotin</a> | <a href="/wiki/Benton_County,_Washington" title="Benton County, Washington">Benton</a> | <a href="/wiki/Chelan_County,_Washington" title="Chelan County, Washington">Chelan</a> | <a href="/wiki/Clallam_County,_Washington" title="Clallam County, Washington">Clallam</a> | <a href="/wiki/Clark_County,_Washington" title="Clark County, Washington">Clark</a> | <a href="/wiki/Columbia_County,_Washington" title="Columbia County, Washington">Columbia</a> | <a href="/wiki/Cowlitz_County,_Washington" title="Cowlitz County, Washington">Cowlitz</a> | <a href="/wiki/Douglas_County,_Washington" title="Douglas County, Washington">Douglas</a> | <a href="/wiki/Ferry_County,_Washington" title="Ferry County, Washington">Ferry</a> | <a href="/wiki/Franklin_County,_Washington" title="Franklin County, Washington">Franklin</a> | <a href="/wiki/Garfield_County,_Washington" title="Garfield County, Washington">Garfield</a> | <a href="/wiki/Grant_County,_Washington" title="Grant County, Washington">Grant</a> | <a href="/wiki/Grays_Harbor_County,_Washington" title="Grays Harbor County, Washington">Grays Harbor</a> | <a href="/wiki/Island_County,_Washington" title="Island County, Washington">Island</a> | <a href="/wiki/Jefferson_County,_Washington" title="Jefferson County, Washington">Jefferson</a> | <a href="/wiki/King_County,_Washington" title="King County, Washington">King</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kitsap_County,_Washington" title="Kitsap County, Washington">Kitsap</a> | <a href="/wiki/Kittitas_County,_Washington" title="Kittitas County, Washington">Kittitas</a> | <a href="/wiki/Klickitat_County,_Washington" title="Klickitat County, Washington">Klickitat</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lewis_County,_Washington" title="Lewis County, Washington">Lewis</a> | <a href="/wiki/Lincoln_County,_Washington" title="Lincoln County, Washington">Lincoln</a> | <a href="/wiki/Mason_County,_Washington" title="Mason County, Washington">Mason</a> | <a href="/wiki/Okanogan_County,_Washington" title="Okanogan County, Washington">Okanogan</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pacific_County,_Washington" title="Pacific County, Washington">Pacific</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pend_Oreille_County,_Washington" title="Pend Oreille County, Washington">Pend Oreille</a> | <a href="/wiki/Pierce_County,_Washington" title="Pierce County, Washington">Pierce</a> | <a href="/wiki/San_Juan_County,_Washington" title="San Juan County, Washington">San Juan</a> | <a href="/wiki/Skagit_County,_Washington" title="Skagit County, Washington">Skagit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Skamania_County,_Washington" title="Skamania County, Washington">Skamania</a> | <a href="/wiki/Snohomish_County,_Washington" title="Snohomish County, Washington">Snohomish</a> | <a href="/wiki/Spokane_County,_Washington" title="Spokane County, Washington">Spokane</a> | <a href="/wiki/Stevens_County,_Washington" title="Stevens County, Washington">Stevens</a> | <a href="/wiki/Thurston_County,_Washington" title="Thurston County, Washington">Thurston</a> | <a href="/wiki/Wahkiakum_County,_Washington" title="Wahkiakum County, Washington">Wahkiakum</a> | <a href="/wiki/Walla_Walla_County,_Washington" title="Walla Walla County, Washington">Walla Walla</a> | <a href="/wiki/Whatcom_County,_Washington" title="Whatcom County, Washington">Whatcom</a> | <a href="/wiki/Whitman_County,_Washington" title="Whitman County, Washington">Whitman</a> | <a href="/wiki/Yakima_County,_Washington" title="Yakima County, Washington">Yakima</a> </p> </td></tr> </tbody></table> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_consensus" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_consensus-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_consensus-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z"></span>A consensus<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_consensus-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: A consensus"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z-A_consensus"></span>This discussion has been lying dormant for over a week now. Let's come up with the results of our "straw poll" and what we will place into the new standardized state templates (except those being debated, of course). Standardization according to this consensus can commence immediately. </p> <ul><li><b>Font size:</b> 87% for the content, 150% for the heading.</li> <li><b>Coats of arms:</b> Omit.</li> <li><b>Show/hide tags:</b> Omit.</li> <li><b>Topics section:</b> Expand focus beyond geography.</li></ul> <p>Areas apparently with no consensus: </p> <ul><li><b>Text alignment:</b> Center, or left?</li> <li><b>Inclusion of sections:</b> No consensus.</li></ul> <p>— <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z-A_consensus" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z-A_consensus"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z-A_consensus"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tstrobaugh-2006-12-12T22:25:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z"></span>Coming late to the discussion. I would like to see lists of State Representative Districts under a heading "government" <a href="/wiki/Pennsylvania" title="Pennsylvania">Pennsylvania</a> has such a heading but no links to the State Political system.<a href="/wiki/User:Tstrobaugh" title="User:Tstrobaugh">Tstrobaugh</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Tstrobaugh-2006-12-12T22:25:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:25, 12 December 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tstrobaugh-2006-12-12T22:25:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tstrobaugh-2006-12-12T22:25:00.000Z-Webdinger-2006-09-14T03:27:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Large_templates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Large_templates-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Large_templates-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z"></span>Large templates<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Large_templates-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Large templates"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Template:New_Hampshire" title="Template:New Hampshire"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z-Large_templates"></span>Template:New Hampshire</a> and several others include large lists of municipalities. I was wondering if there is a consensus for inclusion of Cities. It would seem to me that having a list of the top 20 or so cities would be the most appropriate balance between template size and template inclusiveness. Is there a guideline for population? Like only including MSA's or cities over 100k, 75k or 50k population or top 10 or 20 sized cites? --<a href="/wiki/User:Dual_Freq" title="User:Dual Freq">Dual Freq</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Dual_Freq-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z-Large_templates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z-Large_templates"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dual_Freq-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z-Large_templates"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-01T21:37:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z"></span>Maybe major cities are the top 5-10 by population, then smaller cities is the top 10-15 below that, with the inclusion of county seats regardless of size (thus, of note politically if not by size). Example is <a href="/wiki/Port_Orchard,_Washington" title="Port Orchard, Washington">Port Orchard, WA</a> which is the county seat for <a href="/wiki/Kitsap_County,_Washington" title="Kitsap County, Washington">Kitsap County</a>, but which doesn't meet any size estimations that would make a reasonable list (only ~8k population within city limits). -- <a href="/wiki/User:Snarkyboy" title="User:Snarkyboy">Snarky Boy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-01T21:37:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-01T21:37:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-01T21:37:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-01-31T12:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T00:50:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-01T21:37:00.000Z"></span>So there is no standard for inclusion of cities? Listing county seats for states like New Hampshire would reduce the template's size, but for other states it would lead to a list of over 100 cities. I was hoping for a list in the 20 to 30 range, but reading through the page above I don't see any guidelines. Does a list of 75 to 100 cities in a state template seem reasonable? --<a href="/wiki/User:Dual_Freq" title="User:Dual Freq">Dual Freq</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T00:50:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-01T21:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:50, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T00:50:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-01T21:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T00:50:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-01T21:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2007-02-02T04:49:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T00:50:00.000Z"></span>Dual Freq, this debate kind of died quite a long time ago, but I still think it's important to put together a consensus for what cities should be included in a state template. I personally feel that 75 to 100 is overdoing it, because most cities will be comparably small to others. 20 to 30 is much more reasonable. — <a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger/In_Memory" title="User:Webdinger/In Memory">†</a> <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2007-02-02T04:49:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T00:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2007-02-02T04:49:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T00:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2007-02-02T04:49:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T00:50:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T13:15:00.000Z-Webdinger-2007-02-02T04:49:00.000Z"></span>I agree that 75 to 100 municipalities is way too many. Setting a population threshold probably wouldn't work either since smaller states might only have a few cities listed while larger states would have too many. It would seem most uniform to list a top 20 or top 30 cities since every state will have a top 20 or 30. Listing by population would exclude some municipalities, but the templates link to each county and full state lists of cities. Navigation would only require an extra click to find unlisted cities. --<a href="/wiki/User:Dual_Freq" title="User:Dual Freq">Dual Freq</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T13:15:00.000Z-Webdinger-2007-02-02T04:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T13:15:00.000Z-Webdinger-2007-02-02T04:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T13:15:00.000Z-Webdinger-2007-02-02T04:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Purpose?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Purpose?-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z"><span id="Purpose.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Purpose?-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z"></span>Purpose?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Purpose?-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Purpose?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z-Purpose?"></span>I've seen debate here regarding the specifics and minutiae of which spacing to use, how many links (e.g. cities) to include in a template, but I don't see any discussion of the purpose of all this effort. I'm not sure if the benefits of standardizing the templates outweigh the disadvantages of doing so. If we're talking about style, that is, simple colors, fonts, spacing, centering, location of state emblem and state flag, then I can understand the motivation for standardization. </p><p>However, requiring each state to the same content seems unnecessary and overbearing. There is huge variation between the states. Some states like California and Texas have many MSAs (where <i>M</i> stands for <i>Metropolitan</i> in this case, not <i>Micropolitan</i>), while others have only a few. Some states have many counties, like Texas (254), Georgia (159), or Kentucky (120), while others have very few, like Delaware (3) or Rhode Island (5). Some states have many cities above a certain minimum population. I'm sure CA, TX, FL, IL, and NY would have many while VT, ND, and WY would have very few. If a constant cutoff population is not intended to be used for every state, then perhaps (for instance) the 20 most populuous cities would be listed for each state. In that case, would <a href="/wiki/Newcastle,_Wyoming" title="Newcastle, Wyoming">Newcastle, Wyoming</a> (pop. 3,221) really be as important <a href="/wiki/Irvine,_California" title="Irvine, California">Irvine, California</a> (pop. 186,852) or <a href="/wiki/Waco,_Texas" title="Waco, Texas">Waco, Texas</a> (pop. 120,465), even though each is the 20th most-populous city in its respective state? </p><p>Different things matter to different states. Forcing the same information to appear in each template for every state of the Union (and territories) does not seem to have a net benefit, certainly not for the reader. </p><p>Also, if {{<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Alaska">Template:Alaska</a>}} and {{<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Colorado">Template:Colorado</a>}} are the standards to go by, how do we know which is appropriate, since they even differ from one another? <a href="/wiki/User:Ufwuct" title="User:Ufwuct">Ufwuct</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z-Purpose?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z-Purpose?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z-Purpose?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T19:54:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z"></span>I think it's important to have some level of uniformity in these types of templates. Defining "large cities" as the top 10 (by population) and "smaller cities" as the top 11-30 (by population) seems reasonable, and universally workable across all states. And to your point, Newcastle, WY might be important to the state of Wyoming, don't you think? I would also propose that the capitol not have its own row, as as single item taking a whole row seems a little wasteful of space. Maybe put it next to the state in the header - eg: State of Washington (Capitol: Olympia)? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Snarkyboy" title="User:Snarkyboy">Snarky Boy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T19:54:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T19:54:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T19:54:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T19:36:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T19:54:00.000Z"></span>No, I really don't think Newcastle would be as important to someone reading about Wyoming. There's just not a whole lot you can say about it. I've been there (and not to Irvine), and not to knock the place, but I don't think it's prominent enough to appear in a template. Still, what is the purpose of having this much uniformity? Certainly the articles differ in content, quality, and length and always will. There should be <i><b>much more</b></i> flexibility in content than is currently being allowed/proposed. <a href="/wiki/User:Ufwuct" title="User:Ufwuct">Ufwuct</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T19:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:13, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T19:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T19:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:19:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z"></span>I disagree with Ufwuct, but it's probably more of a fundamental semantic disagreement than anything else. A template by its very definition should be something that's common and predictable. The purpose is that someone looking at any state "infobox" knows that they're seeing the top x cities, the top y towns, and a predictable amount/type of information for any given state. I think if you set a threshold for one template, it should apply to all. Now, whether there should be a threshold, or what that threshold should be, well I suppose that's another question entirely. But any threshold will be somewhat arbitrary, and you'll always be able to find examples that show why that threshold doesn't make sense (Newcastle, WY for top X, but a set population cap will have other examples against it). -- <a href="/wiki/User:Snarkyboy" title="User:Snarkyboy">Snarky Boy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:19:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:19:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:19:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:22:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z"></span>I don't the same criteria should apply to every state, as I've said before. I even think that there could be a few <b>categories</b> the could be optional on the templates, depending on the state. For instance, the apparently agreed-upon and "standardized" templates have different categories. {{<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Colorado">Template:Colorado</a>}} has the daughter articles in the template. This could be useful for large and populuous states which also have large and well-developed daughter articles. I would expect that California and New York might opt to do this based on their population size, history, cultural influence, etc. This would be a convenient way of showing these topics for further reading. I wouldn't guess that Alaska or Vermont would have daughter articles that would be so well developed, so they wouldn't need to include this in the template. Another example would be MSAs (metropolitan areas). For Florida and Texas, which have numerous MSAs which are also spread widely throughout the respective states (i.e. not right on top of each other), including MSAs in the template might be the best way of representing the major populated areas in the state. Listing Mesquite, Grand Prairie, White Settlement, Plano, ...; Pasadena, Pearland, ...; instead of just the Dallas and Houston MSAs (by their official names) serves no purpose. And if we pick the largest cities, do we not include CDPs? In some states, some of the CDPs can get quite large (approaching 100,000). It would be only misleading to put a list of cities on the template that are smaller than other places that just <i>happen</i> to be unincorporated. <a href="/wiki/User:Ufwuct" title="User:Ufwuct">Ufwuct</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Has anyone happened to notice the <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:New_Hampshire" title="Template:New Hampshire">New Hampshire</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> template? Is <a href="/wiki/Roxbury,_New_Hampshire" title="Roxbury, New Hampshire">Roxbury, New Hampshire</a> (pop 237) important enough to list on a state template? I think the question is about a max number of cities for template size. A line should be drawn somewhere, it's ridiculous to list 70+ cities in a state template. <a href="/wiki/User:Dual_Freq" title="User:Dual Freq">Dual Freq</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:22:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:22:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:22:00.000Z-Ufwuct-2007-02-02T20:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:28:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:22:00.000Z"></span>Dual Freq - That's my point, I think we need some standard, but population doesn't necessarily work. Having the top 5-10 cities by population in the "Major Cities" category, then the remaining of the top 30 (or 20...) in the "Smaller Cities" would put a cap on the size that allows for a reasonable number of cities to be displayed for every state. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Snarkyboy" title="User:Snarkyboy">Snarky Boy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:28:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:28:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:28:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:22:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:54:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:28:00.000Z"></span>Sorry, I was replying to Ufwuct, but you added your comment first giving me an edit conflict and I just pasted my comment in after yours. I agree that a line has to be drawn somewhere. -<a href="/wiki/User:Dual_Freq" title="User:Dual Freq">Dual Freq</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:54:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:54:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:54:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-02T20:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2007-02-04T23:35:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:54:00.000Z"></span>The initial contributors who were attempting to form a consensus on state template standardization (primarily <a href="/wiki/User:Lovelac7" title="User:Lovelac7">Lovelac7</a> and myself) agreed that it is important to maintain consistency when using state templates; some state templates are absolutely horrendous both aesthetically and structurally. Using this particular objective would satisfy both. However, this debate dwindled down to near-nothing; I have been very inactive recently and I haven't heard anything from Lovelac7 on this topic. If you would like to fire this back up, feel free — I'll help out. The consensus we achieved is still in effect, it's just that nobody has the time or motivation to go ahead and standardize all the state templates based on this consensus. Will someone do the dirty work? ;) — <a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger/In_Memory" title="User:Webdinger/In Memory">†</a> <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2007-02-04T23:35:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2007-02-04T23:35:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2007-02-04T23:35:00.000Z-Dual_Freq-2007-02-02T20:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-05T00:15:00.000Z-Webdinger-2007-02-04T23:35:00.000Z"></span>I wouldn't mind doing some of the heavy lifting - assuming we can come to some agreement as to standards. I would think that listing the top 20 cities by population (and noting this in the template somehow?) seems reasonable and generaly applicable. <a href="/wiki/User:Snarkyboy" title="User:Snarkyboy">Snarky Boy</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-05T00:15:00.000Z-Webdinger-2007-02-04T23:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:15, 5 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-05T00:15:00.000Z-Webdinger-2007-02-04T23:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snarkyboy-2007-02-05T00:15:00.000Z-Webdinger-2007-02-04T23:35:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wiki_Wistah-2007-05-17T05:26:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-05T00:15:00.000Z"></span>I'll add my voice to the folks putting the brakes on standardization. I completely agree that standardization for aesthetic reasons is great; for one, I'm glad to see the capital cities being kicked upstairs to the title area. Standardizing width of templates, size of fonts, etc. is also welcome. And general guidelines on the length of a template (don't exceed X number of pixels height, e.g.) are also appropriate. But <a href="/wiki/User:Ufwuct" title="User:Ufwuct">User:Ufwuct</a> is right: different states demand different treatment, from a content point of view. That much-maligned New Hampshire template probably fails any max-length rule; but as someone who has lived in both the Midwest and in New England, I understand why <i>every</i> town in N.H. is included, while every other state omits its smallest communities: there's a strong feeling, here (N.H.-Vt.-Mass.-R.I.-Conn., maybe Maine as well) that every place counts, that, as was stated earlier, <a href="/wiki/Peru,_Massachusetts" title="Peru, Massachusetts">Peru, Massachusetts</a>, is just as "special" as <a href="/wiki/Boston" title="Boston">Boston</a>. It would be an inaccurate representation of the New Hampshire "experience" to treat its template exactly as one would treat, say, Missouri's. Put another way: take a gander at the <a href="/wiki/List_of_regions_of_the_United_States" title="List of regions of the United States">List of regions of the United States</a> page and compare New York with Tennessee, or California with Rhode Island. Arguably, the smaller states could do with one line of "regions" (Rhode Island probably doesn't need any -- move Blackstone Valley to "Geography" or "Topics" and redirect the rest to their respective counties, with which they're more or less contiguous); the larger states would need several lines. One cannot apply the same criteria to all four of these and end up with four similarly sized templates. <span style="white-space:nowrap"><sub>```</sub> <a href="/wiki/User:Wiki_Wistah" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Wiki Wistah"><sub><big>W</big></sub> i k i<b> <sub><big>W</big></sub> i s t a h</b></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wiki_Wistah" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Wiki Wistah"><sub><big>W</big></sub> a s s a p</a></span> <sub>```</sub> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Wiki_Wistah-2007-05-17T05:26:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-05T00:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wiki_Wistah-2007-05-17T05:26:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-05T00:15:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wiki_Wistah-2007-05-17T05:26:00.000Z-Snarkyboy-2007-02-05T00:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Flag_of_State" data-mw-thread-id="h-Flag_of_State-2007-03-01T23:07:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Flag_of_State-2007-03-01T23:07:00.000Z"></span>Flag of State<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Flag_of_State-2007-03-01T23:07:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: Flag of State"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-01T23:07:00.000Z-Flag_of_State"></span>So, each state's template has a little flag picture on it, usually in the top-left (as well they should). Right now, at least on <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Washington" title="Template:Washington">Washington</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>, that link just takes you to the flag's picture. What would you guys think if every flag icon took you to the article on that flag (say, <a href="/wiki/Flag_of_Washington" title="Flag of Washington">Flag of Washington</a>)? I think it'd be a nice touch. <a href="/wiki/User:Matt_Yeager" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Matt Yeager"><b style="color:#DF0001;">Matt Yeager</b></a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Special:Random"><b style="font-size:medium; color:#B46611;">♫</b></a> <span style="color:#00AA88;">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matt_Yeager" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Matt Yeager"><span style="color:#00AA88;">Talk?</span></a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-01T23:07:00.000Z-Flag_of_State" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-01T23:07:00.000Z-Flag_of_State"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-01T23:07:00.000Z-Flag_of_State"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}" data-mw-thread-id="h-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z"><span id="Regarding_the_new_.7B.7BUS_state_navigation_box.7D.7D"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z"></span>Regarding the new <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:US_state_navigation_box" title="Template:US state navigation box">US state navigation box</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: Regarding the new {{US state navigation box}}"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}"></span>Question: Why is it a good thing to have a single template transcluded across all 56 (is that how many there are?) state/state-like-object template? <a href="/wiki/User:Matt_Yeager" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Matt Yeager"><b style="color:#DF0001;">Matt Yeager</b></a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Special:Random"><b style="font-size:medium; color:#B46611;">♫</b></a> <span style="color:#00AA88;">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Matt_Yeager" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Matt Yeager"><span style="color:#00AA88;">Talk?</span></a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z-Regarding_the_new_{{US_state_navigation_box}}"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Webdinger-2007-03-10T03:22:00.000Z-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z"></span>Matt: It'll make standardization much, much easier; CapitalR's done a good job with the US state navigation box template. — <a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger/In_Memory" title="User:Webdinger/In Memory">†</a> <span style="background-color: #ddd; font-family: Georgia, serif; font-weight: bold; font-size: 11px; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:Webdinger" title="User:Webdinger">Webdinger</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Webdinger" title="User talk:Webdinger">BLAH</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.seraphiczephyr.us">SZ</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Webdinger-2007-03-10T03:22:00.000Z-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:22, 10 March 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Webdinger-2007-03-10T03:22:00.000Z-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Webdinger-2007-03-10T03:22:00.000Z-Matt_Yeager-2007-03-05T22:12:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Nebraska_template" data-mw-thread-id="h-Nebraska_template-2007-06-19T15:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Nebraska_template-2007-06-19T15:35:00.000Z"></span>Nebraska template<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Nebraska_template-2007-06-19T15:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Nebraska template"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rainmonger-2007-06-19T15:35:00.000Z-Nebraska_template"></span>The <a href="/wiki/Template:Nebraska" title="Template:Nebraska">Nebraska template</a> looks completely messed up. It looks <i>really</i> bad on Firefox and a little better in IE, but there's a lot of code that appears at the top, and the infobox itself is formatted really weirdly. Can someone who's more knowledgeable about this fix it? -- <font style="color: red"><a href="/wiki/User:Rainmonger" title="User:Rainmonger">T</a></font>.<font style="color: blue"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rainmonger" title="User talk:Rainmonger">o</a></font>.<font style="color: gray"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rainmonger" title="Special:Contributions/Rainmonger">n</a></font>.<font style="color: green"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ESP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ESP">y</a></font> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Rainmonger-2007-06-19T15:35:00.000Z-Nebraska_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:35, 19 June 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rainmonger-2007-06-19T15:35:00.000Z-Nebraska_template"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rainmonger-2007-06-19T15:35:00.000Z-Nebraska_template"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rainmonger-2007-06-19T15:38:00.000Z-Nebraska_template"></span>Actually, scratch that. ALL the state templates look wacky. It must be something wrong with <a href="/wiki/Template:US_state_navigation_box" title="Template:US state navigation box">Template:US state navigation box</a>. -- <font style="color: red"><a href="/wiki/User:Rainmonger" title="User:Rainmonger">T</a></font>.<font style="color: blue"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rainmonger" title="User talk:Rainmonger">o</a></font>.<font style="color: gray"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rainmonger" title="Special:Contributions/Rainmonger">n</a></font>.<font style="color: green"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ESP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ESP">y</a></font> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Rainmonger-2007-06-19T15:38:00.000Z-Nebraska_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:38, 19 June 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rainmonger-2007-06-19T15:38:00.000Z-Nebraska_template"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rainmonger-2007-06-19T15:38:00.000Z-Nebraska_template"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template:Montana" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template:Montana-2007-10-01T05:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Template:Montana-2007-10-01T05:14:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Template:Montana" title="Template:Montana">Template:Montana</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Template:Montana-2007-10-01T05:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Template:Montana"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ltvine-2007-10-01T05:14:00.000Z-Template:Montana"></span>I'd like to do something about the <a href="/wiki/Template:Montana" title="Template:Montana">Montana template</a>. Specifically with regard to the listing of 'Largest Cities'. I've been working on the larger cities' {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Infobox_Settlement" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Infobox Settlement">Template:Infobox Settlement</a>}} and have noticed that the listing in the infobox has a few problems. First, I can't discern where the cut-off was for the list originally. Using <a href="/wiki/2000_Census" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="2000 Census">2000 Census</a> figures the smallest place on the list is <a href="/wiki/Glendive,_Montana" title="Glendive, Montana">Glendive</a> at a population of 4,729. The next smallest place was <a href="/wiki/Polson,_Montana" title="Polson, Montana">Polson</a> at a population of 4,041. So the cut-off, in terms of size, wasn't 4,000. Second, there is a total of eighteen places listed so it isn't a round number of, say, 20 places. Second, since the 2000 Census, demographic shifts have changed the rankings. Using 2006 U.S. Census estimates, <a href="/wiki/Polson,_Montana" title="Polson, Montana">Polson</a>, <a href="/wiki/Columbia_Falls,_Montana" title="Columbia Falls, Montana">Columbia Falls</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Hamilton,_Montana" title="Hamilton, Montana">Hamilton</a> are now larger than Glendive, the smallest included community according to the 2000 Census. Finally, <a href="/wiki/Evergreen,_Montana" title="Evergreen, Montana">Evergreen, Montana</a> isn't actually an incorporated city or town but a <a href="/wiki/Census_designated_place" class="mw-redirect" title="Census designated place">census designated place</a>. It does however rank up there when it comes large places in Montana with 6,215 people at the <a href="/wiki/2000_Census" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="2000 Census">2000 Census</a>. </p><p>So put shortly, I'd like to clarify the list and maybe be more inclusive and do what some other states have done like <a href="/wiki/Template:Minnesota" title="Template:Minnesota">Minnesota</a> and include a list of 'Larger Cities' and one for 'Smaller Cities' with the parameters for population clearly stated. Any thoughts? </p><p>I've also posted this query to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Montana" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Montana">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Montana</a> to get input from those who aren't likely to see it here, so please check there for any comments. Thanks. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Ltvine" title="User:Ltvine">Ltvine</a> | <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ltvine" title="User talk:Ltvine">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Ltvine-2007-10-01T05:14:00.000Z-Template:Montana" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ltvine-2007-10-01T05:14:00.000Z-Template:Montana"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ltvine-2007-10-01T05:14:00.000Z-Template:Montana"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Historically_Significant_Cities" data-mw-thread-id="h-Historically_Significant_Cities-2010-09-06T08:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Historically_Significant_Cities-2010-09-06T08:47:00.000Z"></span>Historically Significant Cities<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Historically_Significant_Cities-2010-09-06T08:47:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Historically Significant Cities"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lwalt-2010-09-06T08:47:00.000Z-Historically_Significant_Cities"></span>Is there a reason to omit historically significant cities from state templates, other than population? I'm wondering about the wisdom of omitting <a href="/wiki/Natchitoches,_Louisiana" title="Natchitoches, Louisiana">Natchitoches</a> from the Louisiana template since Natchitoches stands out as the oldest permanent settlement of the <a href="/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase" title="Louisiana Purchase">Louisiana Purchase</a>. The rationale to go only with "large" cities and towns based solely on population seems to go against history as encyclopedic. <b><font color="red"><strong>→</strong></font><a href="/wiki/User:Lwalt" title="User:Lwalt"><font color="blue">Lwalt</font></a><sup> ♦ <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lwalt" title="User talk:Lwalt"><font color="blue">talk</font></a></sup></b> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Lwalt-2010-09-06T08:47:00.000Z-Historically_Significant_Cities" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:47, 6 September 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lwalt-2010-09-06T08:47:00.000Z-Historically_Significant_Cities"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lwalt-2010-09-06T08:47:00.000Z-Historically_Significant_Cities"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_different_approach" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_different_approach-2010-09-20T12:36:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_different_approach-2010-09-20T12:36:00.000Z"></span>A different approach<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_different_approach-2010-09-20T12:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: A different approach"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Student7-2010-09-20T12:36:00.000Z-A_different_approach"></span>Just discovered that Vermont template is being changed beyond all recognition. I used to be able to use this navigational template before someone tried to turn it into a pseudo-portal. It is less usable now and will be ignored as all tediously lengthy lists are. </p><p>One "standard" you ought to discuss (there are college texts out there that have already recorded this determination) is how long should a list be before users stop regarding it as "friendly?" There is a specific answer to that question. I do not have the text in my hand. </p><p>Vermont's template (I don't see it above, please hide, if it is) looks like this now: </p> <div class="navbox-styles"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236075235">.mw-parser-output .navbox{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;font-size:88%;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:1em auto 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbox{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .navbox+.navbox,.mw-parser-output .navbox+.navbox-styles+.navbox{margin-top:-1px}.mw-parser-output .navbox-inner,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup{width:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-title,.mw-parser-output .navbox-abovebelow{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .navbox-group{white-space:nowrap;text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .navbox,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup{background-color:#fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-list{line-height:1.5em;border-color:#fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-list-with-group{text-align:left;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid}.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-group,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-image,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-list{border-top:2px solid #fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title{background-color:#ccf}.mw-parser-output .navbox-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title{background-color:#ddf}.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow{background-color:#e6e6ff}.mw-parser-output .navbox-even{background-color:#f7f7f7}.mw-parser-output .navbox-odd{background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ul,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ul{padding:0.125em 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbar{display:block;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title .navbar{float:left;text-align:left;margin-right:0.5em}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .navbox-image img{max-width:none!important}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .navbox{display:none!important}}</style></div><div role="navigation" class="navbox" aria-labelledby="State_of_Vermont" style="padding:3px"><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible autocollapse navbox-inner" style="border-spacing:0;background:transparent;color:inherit"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="2" style="background-color:#BBDDBB;"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239400231">.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:inline;font-size:88%;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .navbar-collapse{float:left;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .navbar-boxtext{word-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .navbar ul{display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;line-height:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::before{margin-right:-0.125em;content:"[ "}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::after{margin-left:-0.125em;content:" ]"}.mw-parser-output .navbar li{word-spacing:-0.125em}.mw-parser-output .navbar a>span,.mw-parser-output .navbar a>abbr{text-decoration:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-mini abbr{font-variant:small-caps;border-bottom:none;text-decoration:none;cursor:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-full{font-size:114%;margin:0 7em}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-mini{font-size:114%;margin:0 4em}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:Vermont" title="Template:Vermont"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Vermont" title="Template talk:Vermont"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:Vermont" title="Special:EditPage/Template:Vermont"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="State_of_Vermont" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/U.S._state" title="U.S. state">State</a> of <a href="/wiki/Vermont" title="Vermont">Vermont</a></div></th></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="background-color:#BBDDBB;"><div><b><a href="/wiki/Montpelier,_Vermont" title="Montpelier, Vermont">Montpelier</a></b> (capital)</div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="background-color:#BBDDBB;;width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Category:Vermont" title="Category:Vermont">Topics</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/United_States_congressional_delegations_from_Vermont" title="United States congressional delegations from Vermont">Delegations</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Constitution_of_Vermont" title="Constitution of Vermont">Constitution</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Category:Vermont_culture" title="Category:Vermont culture">Culture</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Vermont#Geography" title="Vermont">Geography</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Government_of_Vermont" title="Government of Vermont">Government</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/History_of_Vermont" title="History of Vermont">History</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Category:Images_of_Vermont" title="Category:Images of Vermont">Images</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/List_of_people_from_Vermont" title="List of people from Vermont">People</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Politics_of_Vermont" title="Politics of Vermont">Politics</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/List_of_towns_in_Vermont" class="mw-redirect" title="List of towns in Vermont">Towns</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Village_(Vermont)" class="mw-redirect" title="Village (Vermont)">Villages</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Visitor_attractions_in_Vermont&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Visitor attractions in Vermont (page does not exist)">Visitor Attractions</a></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="background-color:#BBDDBB;;width:1%"><a href="/wiki/Regions_of_the_United_States#Vermont" class="mw-redirect" title="Regions of the United States">Regions</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Champlain_Valley" title="Champlain Valley">Champlain Valley</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Green_Mountains" title="Green Mountains">Green Mountains</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Mount_Mansfield" title="Mount Mansfield">Mount Mansfield</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Northeast_Kingdom" title="Northeast Kingdom">Northeast Kingdom</a></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="background-color:#BBDDBB;;width:1%"><a href="/wiki/List_of_counties_in_Vermont" title="List of counties in Vermont">Counties</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Addison_County,_Vermont" title="Addison County, Vermont">Addison</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Bennington_County,_Vermont" title="Bennington County, Vermont">Bennington</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Caledonia_County,_Vermont" title="Caledonia County, Vermont">Caledonia</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Chittenden_County,_Vermont" title="Chittenden County, Vermont">Chittenden</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Essex_County,_Vermont" title="Essex County, Vermont">Essex</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Franklin_County,_Vermont" title="Franklin County, Vermont">Franklin</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Grand_Isle_County,_Vermont" title="Grand Isle County, Vermont">Grand Isle</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Lamoille_County,_Vermont" title="Lamoille County, Vermont">Lamoille</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Orange_County,_Vermont" title="Orange County, Vermont">Orange</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Orleans_County,_Vermont" title="Orleans County, Vermont">Orleans</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Rutland_County,_Vermont" title="Rutland County, Vermont">Rutland</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Washington_County,_Vermont" title="Washington County, Vermont">Washington</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Windham_County,_Vermont" title="Windham County, Vermont">Windham</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Windsor_County,_Vermont" title="Windsor County, Vermont">Windsor</a></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="background-color:#BBDDBB;;width:1%">Metropolitan areas</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Burlington_%E2%80%93_South_Burlington_Metropolitan_Area" class="mw-redirect" title="Burlington – South Burlington Metropolitan Area">Burlington-South Burlington metropolitan area</a></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="background-color:#BBDDBB;;width:1%"><a href="/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Vermont" class="mw-redirect" title="List of cities in Vermont">Cities</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Barre,_Vermont_(city)" class="mw-redirect" title="Barre, Vermont (city)">Barre</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Burlington,_Vermont" title="Burlington, Vermont">Burlington</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Montpelier,_Vermont" title="Montpelier, Vermont">Montpelier</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Newport_(city),_Vermont" title="Newport (city), Vermont">Newport</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Rutland_(city),_Vermont" title="Rutland (city), Vermont">Rutland</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/St._Albans_(city),_Vermont" title="St. Albans (city), Vermont">St. Albans</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/South_Burlington,_Vermont" title="South Burlington, Vermont">South Burlington</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Vergennes,_Vermont" title="Vergennes, Vermont">Vergennes</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Winooski,_Vermont" title="Winooski, Vermont">Winooski</a></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="background-color:#BBDDBB;;width:1%">Festivals</th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Vermont_State_Fair" title="Vermont State Fair">Vermont State Fair</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Green_Mountain_Film_Festival" title="Green Mountain Film Festival">Green Mountain Film Festival</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Vermont_Mozart_Festival" title="Vermont Mozart Festival">Vermont Mozart Festival</a></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div> <p><br/> The first item says "topic". Apparently a catch-all phrase. The first items seem to be "articles" not links to other articles as the name "topic" implies. The editor also assumes that people using this template want the potpourri items first not specifics. I rather doubt that. </p><p>In the good old days, Vermont was geography first and maybe only, before everyone tried to piggy-back on this successful template. </p><p>Now it is a junkpile that gets added to everything indiscrimately like maple syrup, cows, lord knows what else. </p><p>I wish you guys would stop. People looking at a geographic template want a navigational template to other geographical items. Doubtless the same with political articles, government articles, etc. Fine if you want to have an olio line at the <b>bottom</b> that will give access to a different <b>type</b> of navbox. So there could be a <b>real</b> topics line, and be able to navigate <b>out</b> of geography to politics, for example. The boxes would all be named differently, "Vermont-geography", "Vermont-politics" etc. The politics box would have a topics line to get to geography. That sort of thing. </p><p>Festivals are normally just c-of-c <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PR">WP:PR</a>. Since they have articles, fine, but with its own template, it doesn't clutter up a geographic template or a politics or government one. Just a simple topic on each template with "Festivals" on it to get out of the current topic. </p><p>In that way, we wouldn't have monster boxes all over every single state article indiscrimanately taking up gobs of white space, sometimes more than the tiny article! <a href="/wiki/User:Student7" title="User:Student7">Student7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Student7" title="User talk:Student7">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Student7-2010-09-20T12:36:00.000Z-A_different_approach" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:36, 20 September 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Student7-2010-09-20T12:36:00.000Z-A_different_approach"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Student7-2010-09-20T12:36:00.000Z-A_different_approach"></span> </p><p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Aid_for_census_maintenance" data-mw-thread-id="h-Aid_for_census_maintenance-2011-03-01T13:21:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Aid_for_census_maintenance-2011-03-01T13:21:00.000Z"></span>Aid for census maintenance<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Aid_for_census_maintenance-2011-03-01T13:21:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Aid for census maintenance"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Student7-2011-03-01T13:21:00.000Z-Aid_for_census_maintenance"></span>I've made a suggestion that might aid census maintenance at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Use_bots_to_maintain_census_figures" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)">Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#Use_bots_to_maintain_census_figures</a>. Your comments are welcome. <a href="/wiki/User:Student7" title="User:Student7">Student7</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Student7" title="User talk:Student7">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates#c-Student7-2011-03-01T13:21:00.000Z-Aid_for_census_maintenance" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:21, 1 March 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Student7-2011-03-01T13:21:00.000Z-Aid_for_census_maintenance"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Student7-2011-03-01T13:21:00.000Z-Aid_for_census_maintenance"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&oldid=1082491340">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_U.S._states/state_templates&oldid=1082491340</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 13 April 2022, at 13:16<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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