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1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/84th_Academy_Awards" title="84th Academy Awards">84th Academy Awards</a> article.<br/> This is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a> for general discussion of the article's subject.</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards" title="Special:NewSection/Talk:84th Academy Awards">Click here to start a new 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Welcome! <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">Learn to edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">get help</a>.</li></ul> </div> <div class="talkheader-policies"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Be polite</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">avoid personal attacks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">Be welcoming to newcomers</a></li> <li>Seek <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">dispute resolution</a> if needed</li></ul> </div><div class="talkheader-policies"> <div><b>Article policies</b> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">Neutral point of view</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research" title="Wikipedia:No original research">No original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">Verifiability</a></li></ul> </div> </div> </div> </td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><span class="plainlinks"><i>Find sources:</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?as_eq=wikipedia&q=%2284th+Academy+Awards%22">Google</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%2284th+Academy+Awards%22+-wikipedia">books</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%2284th+Academy+Awards%22+-wikipedia&tbs=ar:1">news</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%2284th+Academy+Awards%22">scholar</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbs=sur:fmc&tbm=isch&q=%2284th+Academy+Awards%22+-site:wikipedia.org+-site:wikimedia.org">free images</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&cx=007734830908295939403%3Agalkqgoksq0&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BCX%3AWikipedia%2520Reference%2520Search&q=%2284th+Academy+Awards%22">WP refs</a>) <b>·</b> <span title="Free English newspaper sources" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_English_newspaper_sources">FENS</a></span> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%2284th+Academy+Awards%22&acc=on&wc=on">JSTOR</a> <b>·</b> <span title="The Wikipedia Library" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/search/?q=%2284th+Academy+Awards%22">TWL</a></span></span></td></tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1135653291">@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .article-history{min-width:80%}}</style><table class="article-history tmbox tmbox-notice"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Featured_article_star.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Featured list"><img alt="Featured list" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/48px-Featured_article_star.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="48" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/72px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/96px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="180"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>84th Academy Awards</b> is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_lists" title="Wikipedia:Featured lists">featured list</a>, which means it has been <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/84th_Academy_Awards/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/84th Academy Awards/archive1">identified</a></b> as one of the best <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Stand-alone_lists" title="Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists">lists</a> produced by the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedians">Wikipedia community</a>. If you can update or improve it, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold" title="Wikipedia:Be bold">please do so</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="width:100%"><table class="article-history-milestones mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:90%"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" style="font-size:110%"><span style="float:left"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Globe_current.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="In the news"><img alt="In the news" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Globe_current.svg/20px-Globe_current.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="19" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Globe_current.svg/30px-Globe_current.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Globe_current.svg/40px-Globe_current.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="321" data-file-height="312"/></a></span></span> Article milestones</th></tr><tr style="text-align:left"><th>Date</th><th>Process</th><th>Result</th></tr><tr><td>January 12, 2009</td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/101st_Academy_Awards" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/101st Academy Awards">Articles for deletion</a></b></td><td>Deleted</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=84th_Academy_Awards&oldid=490658736">May 5, 2012</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/84th_Academy_Awards/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/84th Academy Awards/archive1">Peer review</a></b></td><td>Reviewed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=84th_Academy_Awards&oldid=555310614">May 20, 2013</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/84th_Academy_Awards/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/84th Academy Awards/archive1">Featured list candidate</a></b></td><td>Promoted</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="width:100%"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Globe_current.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="In the news"><img alt="In the news" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Globe_current.svg/20px-Globe_current.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="19" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Globe_current.svg/30px-Globe_current.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Globe_current.svg/40px-Globe_current.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="321" data-file-height="312"/></a></span> A news item involving this article was featured on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Main Page">Main Page</a> in the <i>"<a href="/wiki/Template:In_the_news" title="Template:In the news">In the news</a>"</i> column on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates/February_2012" title="Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates/February 2012">February 27, 2012</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">Current status: <b>Featured list</b></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1243927654">.mw-parser-output .banner-shell{border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:4px}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-header{text-align:center;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{padding:2px 4px;background:#fffaef;color:inherit;border:1px dotted gray}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox{margin:2px 0;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox.mbox-small{line-height:1.5em;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner 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.wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nobel_Prize.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Nobel_Prize.png/25px-Nobel_Prize.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Nobel_Prize.png/39px-Nobel_Prize.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Nobel_Prize.png/51px-Nobel_Prize.png 2x" data-file-width="500" data-file-height="492"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Awards" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Awards">Awards</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nobel_Prize.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Nobel_Prize.png/80px-Nobel_Prize.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="79" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Nobel_Prize.png/120px-Nobel_Prize.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/Nobel_Prize.png/160px-Nobel_Prize.png 2x" data-file-width="500" data-file-height="492"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Awards" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Awards">WikiProject Awards</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Award" title="Award">awards</a> and <a href="/wiki/Prize" title="Prize">prizes</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Awards" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Awards">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Awards</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Awards</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Awards</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">awards articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_awards_articles" title="Category:Low-importance awards articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Release_Version_Criteria#Importance_of_topic" title="Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Release Version Criteria">importance 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href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_California" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject California">California</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_California/Los_Angeles_area_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject California/Los Angeles area task force">Los Angeles</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_California.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Flag_of_California.svg/80px-Flag_of_California.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="53" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Flag_of_California.svg/120px-Flag_of_California.svg.png 1.5x, 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If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_2010s" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject 2010s">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">2010s</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject 2010s</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject 2010s</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">2010s articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_2010s_articles" title="Category:Low-importance 2010s articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Release_Version_Criteria#Importance_of_topic" title="Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Release Version Criteria">importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Update_for_Visual_Effects_Category" data-mw-thread-id="h-Update_for_Visual_Effects_Category-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Update_for_Visual_Effects_Category-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z"></span>Update for Visual Effects Category<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Update_for_Visual_Effects_Category-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Update for Visual Effects Category"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Qwerty786-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z-Update_for_Visual_Effects_Category"></span>It seems the list for Best Visual Special Effects has recently been narrowed down to 10, should this announcement be updated to the article or should we wait for further conformation from a more reliable source? - here's the link - <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.comingsoon.net/news/weekendwarriornews.php?id=85644">http://www.comingsoon.net/news/weekendwarriornews.php?id=85644</a> - 00:26, 5 January 2012 (UTC) </p> <ul><li>I don't get erasing all the steps though. It should be in the article. All the narrowing down until the official nominees. <a href="/wiki/User:Qwerty786" title="User:Qwerty786">Qwerty786</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Qwerty786" title="User talk:Qwerty786">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Qwerty786-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z-Update_for_Visual_Effects_Category" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Qwerty786-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z-Update_for_Visual_Effects_Category"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Qwerty786-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z-Update_for_Visual_Effects_Category"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CAWylie-2012-01-24T18:01:00.000Z-Qwerty786-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z"></span>How about adding the "steps" to the separate award articles? This article is a global one and should be as concise as possible. — <a href="/wiki/User:CAWylie" title="User:CAWylie">WylieCoyote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CAWylie" title="User talk:CAWylie">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-CAWylie-2012-01-24T18:01:00.000Z-Qwerty786-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 24 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CAWylie-2012-01-24T18:01:00.000Z-Qwerty786-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CAWylie-2012-01-24T18:01:00.000Z-Qwerty786-2012-01-24T17:35:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Qwerty786-2012-01-28T02:28:00.000Z-CAWylie-2012-01-24T18:01:00.000Z"></span>That pages layout is all locked up and impossible to put in the steps. It's just a big chart and the disruption of the chart would be sever. It should be here with the "Pre-nominees" section that was deleted for some reason. <a href="/wiki/User:Qwerty786" title="User:Qwerty786">Qwerty786</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Qwerty786" title="User talk:Qwerty786">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Qwerty786-2012-01-28T02:28:00.000Z-CAWylie-2012-01-24T18:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:28, 28 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Qwerty786-2012-01-28T02:28:00.000Z-CAWylie-2012-01-24T18:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Qwerty786-2012-01-28T02:28:00.000Z-CAWylie-2012-01-24T18:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CAWylie-2012-01-28T04:00:00.000Z-Qwerty786-2012-01-28T02:28:00.000Z"></span>This is an <b>AWARDS</b> article and should only include the winners and <u><i>final</i></u> nominees, not a list of "Pre-nominees" that they whittled down over the course of the year, hence my term: concise. The mention of the shortened category in the Changes section suffices. — <a href="/wiki/User:CAWylie" title="User:CAWylie">WylieCoyote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CAWylie" title="User talk:CAWylie">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-CAWylie-2012-01-28T04:00:00.000Z-Qwerty786-2012-01-28T02:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CAWylie-2012-01-28T04:00:00.000Z-Qwerty786-2012-01-28T02:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CAWylie-2012-01-28T04:00:00.000Z-Qwerty786-2012-01-28T02:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CAWylie-2012-02-10T03:51:00.000Z-CAWylie-2012-01-28T04:00:00.000Z"></span>It is all part of a process and ignoring part of the process for some categories is incomplete and acting like the categories with pre nominees are like all the others is inaccurate. Even for this article. All parts of the process should be in the artilce. This article just wont have the winners when it is all done it will have the nominees as well. Some categories have different stages of nominating and it's not even mentioned. This article is incomplete and inaccurate. <a href="/wiki/User:Qwerty786" title="User:Qwerty786">Qwerty786</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Qwerty786" title="User talk:Qwerty786">talk</a>)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Do what you want, but I doubt I'm alone in my thinking. I vote you put it to a vote. — <a href="/wiki/User:CAWylie" title="User:CAWylie">WylieCoyote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CAWylie" title="User talk:CAWylie">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-CAWylie-2012-02-10T03:51:00.000Z-CAWylie-2012-01-28T04:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:51, 10 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CAWylie-2012-02-10T03:51:00.000Z-CAWylie-2012-01-28T04:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CAWylie-2012-02-10T03:51:00.000Z-CAWylie-2012-01-28T04:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mention_of_Brett_Ratner's_slur_in_a_"Controversy"_section?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mention_of_Brett_Ratner's_slur_in_a_"Controversy"_section?-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z"><span id="Mention_of_Brett_Ratner.27s_slur_in_a_.22Controversy.22_section.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Mention_of_Brett_Ratner's_slur_in_a_"Controversy"_section?-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z"></span>Mention of Brett Ratner's slur in a "Controversy" section?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Mention_of_Brett_Ratner's_slur_in_a_"Controversy"_section?-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Mention of Brett Ratner's slur in a "Controversy" section?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snowman_Guy-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z-Mention_of_Brett_Ratner's_slur_in_a_"Controversy"_section?"></span>Should the incident of <a href="/wiki/Brett_Ratner" title="Brett Ratner">Brett Ratner</a>'s gay slur and it's consequences be included in a "Controversies" section of the article?--<a href="/wiki/User:Snowman_Guy" title="User:Snowman Guy">Snowman Guy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Snowman_Guy" title="User talk:Snowman Guy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Snowman_Guy-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z-Mention_of_Brett_Ratner's_slur_in_a_"Controversy"_section?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 28 January 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snowman_Guy-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z-Mention_of_Brett_Ratner's_slur_in_a_"Controversy"_section?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snowman_Guy-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z-Mention_of_Brett_Ratner's_slur_in_a_"Controversy"_section?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-CAWylie-2012-02-10T03:54:00.000Z-Snowman_Guy-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z"></span>It's mentioned in the lead but only sourced from AMPAS. If you do thorough research and remain "fair," I don't see why it can't be included. — <a href="/wiki/User:CAWylie" title="User:CAWylie">WylieCoyote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:CAWylie" title="User talk:CAWylie">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-CAWylie-2012-02-10T03:54:00.000Z-Snowman_Guy-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:54, 10 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-CAWylie-2012-02-10T03:54:00.000Z-Snowman_Guy-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-CAWylie-2012-02-10T03:54:00.000Z-Snowman_Guy-2012-01-28T22:04:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tree_of_Life" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tree_of_Life-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Tree_of_Life-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z"></span><i>Tree of Life</i><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Tree_of_Life-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Tree of Life"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Therequiembellishere-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z-Tree_of_Life"></span>Why wasn't Brad Pitt nominated for Tree of Life's Best Picture nomination? <a href="/wiki/User:Therequiembellishere" title="User:Therequiembellishere">Therequiembellishere</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Therequiembellishere" title="User talk:Therequiembellishere">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Therequiembellishere-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z-Tree_of_Life" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:17, 13 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Therequiembellishere-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z-Tree_of_Life"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Therequiembellishere-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z-Tree_of_Life"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-13T04:43:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z"></span>Great question. I am not 100% sure in this particular case ... but I believe that the Academy limits the number of producers that can win (or be nominated for) the Best Picture award on any particular film. The following statement appears in the Wikipedia article for <a href="/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Picture" title="Academy Award for Best Picture">Academy Award for Best Picture</a>. (I highlighted the relevant section in <b>bold-face print</b>.) "Note 1: Until the <a href="/wiki/23rd_Academy_Awards" title="23rd Academy Awards">23rd Academy Awards</a> (<a href="/wiki/1950_in_film" title="1950 in film">1950</a>), Best Picture was awarded to the studio that produced the film. Beginning with the <a href="/wiki/24th_Academy_Awards" title="24th Academy Awards">24th Academy Awards</a> (<a href="/wiki/1951_in_film" title="1951 in film">1951</a>), however, it has been awarded to the individual producers credited on the film. Note also that until 1943, there were ten (rather than five) nominated films per year. As of 2009, there are once again ten nominated films. The first year in which multiple individuals jointly won was 1973, with three winners for <i><a href="/wiki/The_Sting" title="The Sting">The Sting</a></i>. The greatest number of joint winners was five, for <i><a href="/wiki/Shakespeare_in_Love" title="Shakespeare in Love">Shakespeare in Love</a></i> in 1998. <b>After this, the Academy imposed a limit of three nominated producers per film; however, this limit may be exceeded in a "rare and extraordinary circumstance", such as in 2008 when both <a href="/wiki/Anthony_Minghella" title="Anthony Minghella">Anthony Minghella</a> and <a href="/wiki/Sydney_Pollack" title="Sydney Pollack">Sydney Pollack</a> were posthumously included among four nominees for <i><a href="/wiki/The_Reader_(2008_film)" title="The Reader (2008 film)">The Reader</a></i>.</b><sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup>" Hope this information helps! Thanks. (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-13T04:43:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:43, 13 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-13T04:43:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-13T04:43:00.000Z-Therequiembellishere-2012-02-13T01:17:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:16:00.000Z-Tree_of_Life"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239543626">.mw-parser-output .reflist{margin-bottom:0.5em;list-style-type:decimal}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .reflist{font-size:90%}}.mw-parser-output .reflist .references{font-size:100%;margin-bottom:0;list-style-type:inherit}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-2{column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-3{column-width:25em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns{margin-top:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns ol{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns li{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-alpha{list-style-type:upper-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-roman{list-style-type:upper-roman}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-alpha{list-style-type:lower-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-greek{list-style-type:lower-greek}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-roman{list-style-type:lower-roman}</style><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-1">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite id="CITEREFSiegel2009" class="citation news cs1">Siegel, Tatiana (27 January 2009). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.variety.com/awardcentral_article/VR1117999153.html?nav=news&categoryid=1982&cs=1">"Acad allows 'Reader' 4 producers; Minghella, Pollack to be named as nominees"</a>. <i><a href="/wiki/Variety_(magazine)" title="Variety (magazine)">Variety</a></i>. <a href="/wiki/Reed_Business" class="mw-redirect" title="Reed Business">Reed Business</a><span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="nowrap">2009-05-24</span></span>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Variety&rft.atitle=Acad+allows+%27Reader%27+4+producers%3B+Minghella%2C+Pollack+to+be+named+as+nominees&rft.date=2009-01-27&rft.aulast=Siegel&rft.aufirst=Tatiana&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.variety.com%2Fawardcentral_article%2FVR1117999153.html%3Fnav%3Dnews%26categoryid%3D1982%26cs%3D1&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3ATalk%3A84th+Academy+Awards" class="Z3988"></span></span> </li> </ol></div></div> <p><br/> See <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.oscars.org/awards/academyawards/rules/rule17.html">Rule Seventeen</a>: “The nominees will be those three or fewer producers who have performed the major portion of the producing functions.” As an exception, in “a rare and extraordinary circumstance”, the Producers Branch Executive Committee may name any additional qualified producer as a nominee. <i>The Tree of Life</i> has five individuals with a produced-by credit; the three submitted on the AMPAS nomination form were <a href="/wiki/Sarah_Green" class="mw-disambig" title="Sarah Green">Sarah Green</a>, <a href="/wiki/Bill_Pohlad" title="Bill Pohlad">Bill Pohlad</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Dede_Gardner" title="Dede Gardner">Dede Gardner</a>. A fourth, <a href="/wiki/Grant_Hill" title="Grant Hill">Grant Hill</a>, subsequently petitioned the Academy to be included.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/brad-pitt-tree-of-life-producers-moneyball-oscars-285417">[1]</a> According to the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.oscars.org/press/pressreleases/2012/20120127.html">official AMPAS press release</a>, the Producers Branch Executive Committee determined that four producers (Sarah Green, Bill Pohlad, Dede Gardner, and Grant Hill) functioned as genuine producers of <i>The Tree of Life</i>. <a href="/wiki/User:Cinematical" title="User:Cinematical">Cinematical</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cinematical" title="User talk:Cinematical">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:16:00.000Z-Tree_of_Life" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:16, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:16:00.000Z-Tree_of_Life"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:16:00.000Z-Tree_of_Life"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Records_and_milestones" data-mw-thread-id="h-Records_and_milestones-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Records_and_milestones-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z"></span>Records and milestones<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Records_and_milestones-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Records and milestones"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T01:07:00.000Z-Records_and_milestones"></span>Is information like “Woody Allen is the sixth oldest nominee for Best Director” a true milestone, or mere trivia? 00:58, 26 February 2012 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>See (prior) discussion below. This Woody Allen statement is a factual statement that is sourced by the official Academy Awards people (AMPAS). AMPAS is not only a reliable source in this matter, but <i>the</i> reliable source! Whether it is under the semantic label heading of "milestone" or "statistic" or "record" is hardly the germane point. The germane point is that the factual, reliably sourced information should be included. I have addressed all your concerns below. And you continue to revert without explanation or response. Thanks. (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T01:07:00.000Z-Records_and_milestones" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:07, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T01:07:00.000Z-Records_and_milestones"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T01:07:00.000Z-Records_and_milestones"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SDnogo-2012-02-27T00:47:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T01:07:00.000Z"></span>Comment</b> It's mere trivia, but even the old fashioned encyclopedias had some trivia. Just don't have the whole article full of this type of trivia. <a href="/wiki/User:SDnogo" title="User:SDnogo">SD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SDnogo" title="User talk:SDnogo">talk</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SDnogo" title="Special:Contributions/SDnogo">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-SDnogo-2012-02-27T00:47:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T01:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:47, 27 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SDnogo-2012-02-27T00:47:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T01:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SDnogo-2012-02-27T00:47:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T01:07:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion-Records_and_milestones-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion-Records_and_milestones-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z"></span>Discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion-Records_and_milestones-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Discussion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Joseph A. Spadaro, regarding <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=84th_Academy_Awards&diff=next&oldid=478802873">this edit</a>, do you not see the irony in your edit summary claiming the information is sourced while you are restoring text along with the {{citation needed}} tag? <a href="/wiki/User:Cinematical" title="User:Cinematical">Cinematical</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cinematical" title="User talk:Cinematical">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:41, 25 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:41:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Also please have a look at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RD/L#Definition_of_"milestone"" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RD/L">WP:RD/L#Definition of "milestone"</a>. Finishing 6th (or 2nd for that matter) is neither a record nor a milestone. <a href="/wiki/User:Cinematical" title="User:Cinematical">Cinematical</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cinematical" title="User talk:Cinematical">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 25 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:07:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z"></span>These are indeed milestones, at least according to the Academy (AMPAS). Which is a reliable source. Indeed, AMPAS itself would be the <i>most reliable</i> of all sources in this matter. The Academy itself would be <i>the</i> source! Who are you — or any other Wikipedia editor, for that matter — to supersede the judgment of the Academy as to what is or is not a notable milestone? I can (and will) offer the source, but I do not know how to format it properly. Which is why I have not added it in. PS: No, I do not see the irony at all. Just because a statement has a "citation needed" tag does not mean that a source does not exist. It simply means that the statement has not (yet) been sourced. In fact, that is the very reason for having the citation tag in the first place. It is used all the time! Otherwise, unsourced statements would simply be deleted, all the time. So, you are proving my case — rather than your own — by pointing to the citation tag as evidence that the statement should be deleted. Also, I have reviewed the link that you provided above (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RD/L#Definition_of_"milestone"" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RD/L">WP:RD/L#Definition of "milestone"</a>). I am not sure why you provide that. That certainly is no "official" definition of milestone. Rather, it is a Reference Board discussion of the topic of what the definition of a milestone is (or should be). I am not sure how that is germane? It again proves my point that it is not what we at Wikipedia consider the definition of a milestone to be, but rather, what the reliable sources (i.e., the Academy) consider it to be. Furthermore, that discussion was sparsely attended, at best. I will provide the link/source below, although I really do not know the proper way to format it. (Perhaps someone else can do so.) I will be adding the deleted information back into the article. Thanks! (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:07:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:07, 25 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:07:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:07:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:34:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z"></span>Here is the source: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://awardsdatabase.oscars.org/ampas_awards/help/helpMain.jsp?helpContentURL=statistics/indexStats.html">http://awardsdatabase.oscars.org/ampas_awards/help/helpMain.jsp?helpContentURL=statistics/indexStats.html</a>. Thanks. (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:34:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:34, 25 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:34:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:34:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-25T22:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:20:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:34:00.000Z"></span>Thank you for finally supplying a source. But it does not bear out your claim; the page whose link you supply does not use the word “milestone”. Therefore please do not re-add this trivia until consensus has developed. <a href="/wiki/User:Cinematical" title="User:Cinematical">Cinematical</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cinematical" title="User talk:Cinematical">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:20:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:20:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:34:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:20:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-25T23:34:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T00:43:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:20:00.000Z"></span>The use of the specific word "milestone" is <i>not</i> the issue here. Inclusion of the factual information is the germane issue. It does not matter what verbiage you want/prefer to use as a heading (record, milestone, etc.). <b>Furthermore, I find it quite ironic that you deleted my statements, in light of the other (unsourced) statements that you retained. Please explain your reasoning.</b> Thanks. (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>))</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Also ... you purport to be "bothered by" (i.e., object to) the use of the specific word "milestone" — and not by the inclusion of the factual information. I added the term "statistics" ... since that parrots <i>exactly</i> the verbiage of the Academy Awards website. And that should address your (purported) concerns. Therefore, please do not delete this factual (sourced) information until consensus has developed. Thanks. (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T00:43:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T00:43:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T00:43:00.000Z-Cinematical-2012-02-26T00:20:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>please bring a citation for "records" and one for "milestones". thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Seb_az86556" title="User:Seb az86556">Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seb_az86556" title="User talk:Seb az86556">> haneʼ</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:30, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T06:06:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z"></span>I did <i>exactly</i> that ... exactly what you requested above. That is, I provided <i>several</i> reliable sources as citations for the use of the word "records". In response to that, you reverted my edit, with an edit summary of "what the fuck". (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T06:06:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:06, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T06:06:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T06:06:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:46:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z"></span>These are normal everyday words, used in their normal everyday sense. I don't believe that they require, umm, "citations". Good grief. Let's not be silly. (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:46:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:46, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:46:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:46:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T04:48:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:46:00.000Z"></span>Trivial. Does not belong. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T04:48:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:48, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T04:48:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:46:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T04:48:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:46:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:50:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T04:48:00.000Z"></span>Says who? If a reliable source (such as AMPAS) reports it, then who are you to "trump" / supersede that reliable source with your "conclusion" that it is trivial? Please clarify. Thanks! (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:50:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T04:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:50, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:50:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T04:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:50:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T04:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:52:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:50:00.000Z"></span>Thanks, Bugs. Joseph, you are very alone here. Besides, your "normal everyday words" constitute <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a> here, since the source does not report it. "Nuclear" and "scientist" are also <i>normal words</i>; you still can't claim to be one. <a href="/wiki/User:Seb_az86556" title="User:Seb az86556">Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seb_az86556" title="User talk:Seb az86556">> haneʼ</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:52:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:52, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:52:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:52:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:50:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:54:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:52:00.000Z"></span>So, call it "statistics" ... as the reliable source does. And ... ummm ... as I suggested above. And ... ummm ... as I placed into the article myself. Read the above discussion. Furthermore, most people know what the word "record" means ... and know what the word "milestone" means. They are normal words that require no explanation or citation. And your "nuclear scientist" argument is non-sensical. Claiming to be something that one is not is a matter of fact (versus lie) ... not a matter of the normal everday words / usage / definitions of "nuclear scientist". Thanks. (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:54:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:54, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:54:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T04:54:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T04:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:14:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>You need to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:POINT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:POINT">WP:POINT</a> and stop <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=84th_Academy_Awards&action=historysubmit&diff=478896235&oldid=478896137">this</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Seb_az86556" title="User:Seb az86556">Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seb_az86556" title="User talk:Seb az86556">> haneʼ</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:14:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:14, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:14:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:14:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:19:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:14:00.000Z"></span>Huh? I thought that if a normal, everyday word was used in the article, it needs to be referenced exactly and specifically in the source? Wasn't that your argument above, when I mentioned the everyday words "record" and "milestone"? Why is it that you can "pick and choose" when your "rule" applies and when it does not apply? You are confusing me here. Your exact words were ... <i>Besides, your "normal everyday words" constitute <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a> here, since the source does not report it.</i> So, I was just applying your rule ... what's wrong with that? I am confused. Please clarify. Thanks! (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:19:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:19, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:19:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:19:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:22:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:19:00.000Z"></span>"record" and "milestone" constitute value-judgments for which a citation must be given when requested. There is no value-judgment in the headings you tried to tag. <a href="/wiki/User:Seb_az86556" title="User:Seb az86556">Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seb_az86556" title="User talk:Seb az86556">> haneʼ</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:22:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:22, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:22:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:22:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:19:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:22:00.000Z"></span>Number 1 ... call it "statistics", like I suggested multiple times above. (You clearly want to call it "trivia" so that it gets deleted under the "no trivia" rule. And you are being disingenuous about that, which is your ulterior motive.) Number 2 ... a "record" is a value judgment? Huh? What planet are you on? For real? You don't think that Meryl Streep earning 17 nominations is referred to as a "record"? And you don't think that that <b>fact</b> is highly and reliably sourced? Honestly? Who is being unreasonable and difficult here? I can probably find a dozen sources in the next 2 minutes that will refer to Streep's accomplishment as a, ummm, "record". It's a plain and simple factually true statement. Streep earned 17 nominations ... which is a "record" to the extent that no one else has earned more than her 17 ... ever in the history of the Oscars. Where exactly is the "value judgment" that you claim? Please clarify? Thanks! (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:29, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:42:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z"></span>Change your rhetoric and try again. Until then, there's nothing to clarify. <a href="/wiki/User:Seb_az86556" title="User:Seb az86556">Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556</a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Seb_az86556" title="User talk:Seb az86556">> haneʼ</a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:42:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:42:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:42:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:42:00.000Z"></span>"Oldest" could be interesting. "Fourth oldest" or "27th oldest" is trivial. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z-Seb_az86556-2012-02-26T05:42:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:44:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z"></span>Bugs, that is your personal conclusion. Not fact. The Academy, a reliable source, feels differently ... as do many other reliable sources. Thanks! (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:44:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:44, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:44:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:44:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z"></span>To - Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ... to address your, ummm, "concerns" ... I have added the following information to the article. Thanks! (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:43, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:29:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:50:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z"></span>Note: The fact that Meryl Streep has earned a total of seventeen Academy Award nominations has been referred to as a "record" in several reliable sources. For reliable sources that specifically use the term "record" in reference to Streep's situation, please see, for example, <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/oscars/9095990/The-Oscars-2012-in-numbers.html">http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/oscars/9095990/The-Oscars-2012-in-numbers.html</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2012/1/oscars-2012-meryl-streep-extends-record-tally-for-most-nominations">http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2012/1/oscars-2012-meryl-streep-extends-record-tally-for-most-nominations</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2093628/Meryls-magic-As-gets-record-17th-Oscar-nomination-faces-Ms-Streep.html">http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2093628/Meryls-magic-As-gets-record-17th-Oscar-nomination-faces-Ms-Streep.html</a>.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>To - Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 ... you asked for sources to support the word "records" ... I provided MANY reliable sources that do exactly what you requested ... you delete them ... you use an edit summary of "what the fuck" ... and then you give <i>me</i> a warning? For real, man? (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:50:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:50, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:50:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:50:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:53:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:50:00.000Z"></span>Reliability of a source is not a ticket to a fact's inclusion in wikipedia. ←<a href="/wiki/User:Baseball_Bugs" title="User:Baseball Bugs">Baseball Bugs</a> <sup><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Baseball_Bugs" title="User talk:Baseball Bugs">What's up, Doc?</a></i></sup> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Baseball_Bugs" title="Special:Contributions/Baseball Bugs">carrots</a>→ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:53:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:53, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:53:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:53:00.000Z-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:50:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:57:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:53:00.000Z"></span>Thanks, Bugs. So, please clarify. Assume that we have reliable sources ... how do we "pick and choose" from those reliable sources as to what to include in (or exclude from) Wikipedia? Thanks. (<a href="/wiki/User:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User:Joseph A. Spadaro">Joseph A. Spadaro</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joseph_A._Spadaro" title="User talk:Joseph A. Spadaro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:57:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:57, 26 February 2012 (UTC)</a>)<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:57:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joseph_A._Spadaro-2012-02-26T05:57:00.000Z-Baseball_Bugs-2012-02-26T05:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Protection" data-mw-thread-id="h-Protection-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Protection-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z"></span>Protection<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Protection-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Protection"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z-Protection"></span>Due to the ongoing addition of nonsense and unsourced "wins" of awards that haven't actually been presented yet, I've put a one-hour semiprotection on the article to keep anonymous IPs off. Just so y'all know. <a href="/wiki/User:Bearcat" title="User:Bearcat">Bearcat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bearcat" title="User talk:Bearcat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z-Protection" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:20, 27 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z-Protection"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z-Protection"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zzyzx11-2012-02-27T04:32:00.000Z-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z"></span>An hour, right?<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=84th_Academy_Awards&diff=479066587&oldid=479066303">[2]</a> Just wanted to make sure. Cheers. <a href="/wiki/User:Zzyzx11" title="User:Zzyzx11">Zzyzx11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zzyzx11" title="User talk:Zzyzx11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Zzyzx11-2012-02-27T04:32:00.000Z-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:32, 27 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zzyzx11-2012-02-27T04:32:00.000Z-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zzyzx11-2012-02-27T04:32:00.000Z-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:33:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2012-02-27T04:32:00.000Z"></span>Weird, I coulda <i>sworn</i> I'd selected "1 hour" before I hit save. Oh, well, thanks for the catch. <a href="/wiki/User:Bearcat" title="User:Bearcat">Bearcat</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bearcat" title="User talk:Bearcat">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:33:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2012-02-27T04:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 27 February 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:33:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2012-02-27T04:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bearcat-2012-02-27T04:33:00.000Z-Zzyzx11-2012-02-27T04:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Performers_section_is_not_complete..." data-mw-thread-id="h-Performers_section_is_not_complete...-2012-02-27T05:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Performers_section_is_not_complete...-2012-02-27T05:17:00.000Z"></span>Performers section is not complete...<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Performers_section_is_not_complete...-2012-02-27T05:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Performers section is not complete..."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Campsmith-2012-02-27T05:17:00.000Z-Performers_section_is_not_complete..."></span>I would like to add to the performers section Esperanza Spalding and The Southern California Children's Chorus, who did a fabulous job during the memorium segment. </p><p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Campsmith&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Campsmith (page does not exist)">Campsmith</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Campsmith" title="User talk:Campsmith">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Campsmith-2012-02-27T05:17:00.000Z-Performers_section_is_not_complete..." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:17, 27 February 2012 (UTC)</a> 2/27/2012<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Campsmith-2012-02-27T05:17:00.000Z-Performers_section_is_not_complete..."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Campsmith-2012-02-27T05:17:00.000Z-Performers_section_is_not_complete..."></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Reception"_section" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Reception"_section-2012-03-09T12:55:00.000Z"><span id=".22Reception.22_section"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"Reception"_section-2012-03-09T12:55:00.000Z"></span>"Reception" section<span data-mw-comment-end="h-"Reception"_section-2012-03-09T12:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: "Reception" section"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snowman_Guy-2012-03-09T12:55:00.000Z-"Reception"_section"></span>A "Reception" section needs to be added to the article.--<a href="/wiki/User:Snowman_Guy" title="User:Snowman Guy">Snowman Guy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Snowman_Guy" title="User talk:Snowman Guy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Snowman_Guy-2012-03-09T12:55:00.000Z-"Reception"_section" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:55, 9 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snowman_Guy-2012-03-09T12:55:00.000Z-"Reception"_section"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snowman_Guy-2012-03-09T12:55:00.000Z-"Reception"_section"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US?" data-mw-thread-id="h-First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US?-2012-03-15T16:25:00.000Z"><span id="First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US?-2012-03-15T16:25:00.000Z"></span>First BP win since No Country to be filmed in the US?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US?-2012-03-15T16:25:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: First BP win since No Country to be filmed in the US?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wgolf-2012-03-15T16:25:00.000Z-First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US?"></span>Just wondering if this is something that should be added. Intresting that it is the first one to be filmed in the US when it was not an American film. (Also the first PG-13 winner since <i><a href="/wiki/Million_Dollar_Baby" title="Million Dollar Baby">Million Dollar Baby</a></i>) </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Wgolf" title="User:Wgolf">Wgolf</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wgolf" title="User talk:Wgolf">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Wgolf-2012-03-15T16:25:00.000Z-First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:25, 15 March 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wgolf-2012-03-15T16:25:00.000Z-First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wgolf-2012-03-15T16:25:00.000Z-First_BP_win_since_No_Country_to_be_filmed_in_the_US?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="This_line_makes_no_sense" data-mw-thread-id="h-This_line_makes_no_sense-2012-06-27T13:13:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-This_line_makes_no_sense-2012-06-27T13:13:00.000Z"></span>This line makes no sense<span data-mw-comment-end="h-This_line_makes_no_sense-2012-06-27T13:13:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: This line makes no sense"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-70.72.215.252-2012-06-27T13:13:00.000Z-This_line_makes_no_sense"></span>The following line in the story makes no sense: "Head writer Bruce Vilanch was not involved in writing duties due to other projects." So was he involved in the ceremony or not? Was this just a ceremonial title (like some executive producer titles), or did the person who added that mean to say that Vilanch, who has written a number of past ceremonies, was unable to do so this year because of other commitments? <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/70.72.215.252" title="Special:Contributions/70.72.215.252">70.72.215.252</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:70.72.215.252" title="User talk:70.72.215.252">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-70.72.215.252-2012-06-27T13:13:00.000Z-This_line_makes_no_sense" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:13, 27 June 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-70.72.215.252-2012-06-27T13:13:00.000Z-This_line_makes_no_sense"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-70.72.215.252-2012-06-27T13:13:00.000Z-This_line_makes_no_sense"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Move_discussion_in_progress" data-mw-thread-id="h-Move_discussion_in_progress-2015-04-04T13:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Move_discussion_in_progress-2015-04-04T13:14:00.000Z"></span>Move discussion in progress<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Move_discussion_in_progress-2015-04-04T13:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Move discussion in progress"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-RMCD_bot-2015-04-04T13:14:00.000Z-Move_discussion_in_progress"></span>There is a move discussion in progress on <a href="/wiki/Talk:Academy_Awards#Requested_move_4_April_2015" title="Talk:Academy Awards">Talk:Academy Awards</a> which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —<a href="/wiki/User:RMCD_bot" title="User:RMCD bot">RMCD bot</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-RMCD_bot-2015-04-04T13:14:00.000Z-Move_discussion_in_progress" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:14, 4 April 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-RMCD_bot-2015-04-04T13:14:00.000Z-Move_discussion_in_progress"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-RMCD_bot-2015-04-04T13:14:00.000Z-Move_discussion_in_progress"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified-2017-05-19T10:15:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified-2017-05-19T10:15:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified-2017-05-19T10:15:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-05-19T10:15:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, </p><p>I have just modified one external link on <a href="/wiki/84th_Academy_Awards" title="84th Academy Awards">84th Academy Awards</a>. 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This message is updated dynamically through the template <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Source_check" title="Template:Source check">source check</a>}}</code> <small>(last update: 5 June 2024)</small>. </p> <ul><li>If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=reportfalsepositive">this tool</a>.</li> <li>If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=manageurlsingle">this tool</a>.</li></ul> <p>Cheers.—<a href="/wiki/User:InternetArchiveBot" title="User:InternetArchiveBot"><b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b></a> <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:InternetArchiveBot" title="User talk:InternetArchiveBot">Report bug</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-05-19T10:15:00.000Z-External_links_modified" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:15, 19 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-05-19T10:15:00.000Z-External_links_modified"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-05-19T10:15:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Best_Original_Song" data-mw-thread-id="h-Best_Original_Song-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Best_Original_Song-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z"></span>Best Original Song<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Best_Original_Song-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Best Original Song"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Randumb_editor-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z-Best_Original_Song"></span>There seems to be an issue with best original song winners and nominees. The WINNER was TOY STORY 3's We Belong Together Music and Lyric by Randy Newman. And the other nominees were: "Coming Home" in Country Strong, Music and Lyric by Tom Douglas, Troy Verges and Hillary Lindsey; "I See The Light" In "Tangled, music by Alan Menken and Lyric but Glenn Slater, and "If I Rise" in "127 Hours,", Music by A.R. Rahman and Lyric by Dido and Rollo Armstrong. </p><p>As of right this moment - 03/01/2019, It lists two non-nominated songs. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Randumb_editor&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Randumb editor (page does not exist)">Randumb editor</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Randumb_editor#top" title="User talk:Randumb editor">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Randumb_editor" title="Special:Contributions/Randumb editor">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-Randumb_editor-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z-Best_Original_Song" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:55, 1 March 2019 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Randumb_editor-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z-Best_Original_Song"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Randumb_editor-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z-Best_Original_Song"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GiraffeCookies-20230718090400-Randumb_editor-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z"></span>"We Belong Together" from Toy Story 3 won it the 83rd awards not the 84th. The current list of just 2 songs is correct as per <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.oscars.org/oscars/ceremonies/2012">https://www.oscars.org/oscars/ceremonies/2012</a> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:GiraffeCookies&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:GiraffeCookies (page does not exist)">GiraffeCookies</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiraffeCookies" title="User talk:GiraffeCookies">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-GiraffeCookies-20230718090400-Randumb_editor-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:04, 18 July 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GiraffeCookies-20230718090400-Randumb_editor-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GiraffeCookies-20230718090400-Randumb_editor-2019-03-01T07:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Best_Original_Score" data-mw-thread-id="h-Best_Original_Score-20230718090700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Best_Original_Score-20230718090700"></span>Best Original Score<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Best_Original_Score-20230718090700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:84th_Academy_Awards&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Best Original Score"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GiraffeCookies-20230718090700-Best_Original_Score"></span>There is a issue with the winners/nominees. There are two winners listed ("The Artist" & Tom and Jerry and The Wizard of Oz". Tom and Jerry was never nominated, and certainly didn't win. Source here: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.oscars.org/oscars/ceremonies/2012">https://www.oscars.org/oscars/ceremonies/2012</a> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:GiraffeCookies&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:GiraffeCookies (page does not exist)">GiraffeCookies</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GiraffeCookies" title="User talk:GiraffeCookies">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:84th_Academy_Awards#c-GiraffeCookies-20230718090700-Best_Original_Score" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:07, 18 July 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GiraffeCookies-20230718090700-Best_Original_Score"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GiraffeCookies-20230718090700-Best_Original_Score"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; 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