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innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg/35px-Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="23" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg/53px-Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg/70px-Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="900" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Romani_people" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Romani people">Romani people</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg/80px-Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="53" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg/120px-Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/10/Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg/160px-Flag_of_the_Romani_people.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="900" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Romani_people" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Romani people">WikiProject Romani people</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Romani_people" title="Romani people">Romani people</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Romani_people" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Romani people">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Romani people</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Romani people</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Romani people</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Romani people articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Romani_people_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Romani people articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Romani_people/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Romani people/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Wales.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/35px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/53px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/70px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="480"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wales" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Wales">Wales</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_Wales.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/70px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png" decoding="async" width="70" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/105px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/140px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="480"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239009302">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/32px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="19" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/48px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Flag_of_Wales.svg/64px-Flag_of_Wales.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="480"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Wales" title="Portal:Wales">Wales portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wales" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Wales">WikiProject Wales</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Wales" title="Wales">Wales</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Wales" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Wales</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Wales</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Wales</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Wales articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Wales_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Wales articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Wales/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Wales/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/14px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png" decoding="async" width="14" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/21px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/28px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="1404"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups">Ethnic groups</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-low">Low‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/50px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="88" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/75px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png/100px-Zuni-girl-with-jar2.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="1404"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups">WikiProject Ethnic groups</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to <a href="/wiki/Ethnic_group" class="mw-redirect" title="Ethnic group">ethnic groups</a>, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Ethnic groups</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Ethnic groups</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Ethnic groups articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-low"><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Ethnic groups articles">Low</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Low-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding:0"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background:transparent;width:100%"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0">WikiProject Ethnic groups open tasks:</th></tr><tr><td style="text-align:left;padding:5px;background-color:white;border:1px solid #c0c090;margin-top:5px"> <p><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Clipboard.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/35px-Clipboard.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="35" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/53px-Clipboard.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/70px-Clipboard.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span> Here are some open <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups">WikiProject Ethnic groups</a> tasks: </p> <ul><li>Meta-tasks: <ul><li>Place the <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Ethnic_groups" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ethnic groups">Ethnic groups</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span> template <b>on the talk page</b> of articles within the scope of this project.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups/Archive_11#How_does_Wikipedia_rate_the_.22importance.22_of_an_ethnic_group.3F" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Archive 11">Resolve the disparity in importance rankings among different ethnic groups</a></li></ul></li> <li>Articles about ethnic groups that currently have issues needing resolution: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Unassessed_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles">Category:Unassessed Ethnic groups articles</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_articles_needing_merge_action" title="Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action">Category:Ethnic groups articles needing merge action</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_articles_needing_infoboxes" title="Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes">Category:Ethnic groups articles needing infoboxes</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_articles_needing_reassessment" title="Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment">Category:Ethnic groups articles needing reassessment</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Category:Ethnic_groups_articles_needing_attention" title="Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention">Category:Ethnic groups articles needing attention</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Iyer" title="Iyer">Iyer</a></li> <li><b><a href="/wiki/Peruvian_people" class="mw-redirect" title="Peruvian people">Peruvian people</a></b></li></ul></li> <li>Start an article: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups/Article_requests" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests">Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Article requests</a></li></ul></li></ul> <p>Feel free to <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups_tasks" title="Template:WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks">edit this list</a> or <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups_tasks" title="Template talk:WikiProject Ethnic groups tasks">discuss these tasks</a>. </p> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Pronounciation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pronounciation-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Pronounciation-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z"></span>Pronounciation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Pronounciation-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Pronounciation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Verbcatcher-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z-Pronounciation"></span>How is <i>Kale</i> pronounced? The obvious way is <i><a href="/wiki/Help:Pronunciation_respelling_key" title="Help:Pronunciation respelling key"><i title="English pronunciation respelling">kayl</i></a></i>, like the vegetable. However, I suspect it should be something like <i><a href="/wiki/Help:Pronunciation_respelling_key" title="Help:Pronunciation respelling key"><i title="English pronunciation respelling">kar-lay</i></a></i> or <i><a href="/wiki/Help:Pronunciation_respelling_key" title="Help:Pronunciation respelling key"><i title="English pronunciation respelling">kar-lə</i></a></i>. This is would be consistent by alternative form <b>Kalá</b>, with the <a href="/wiki/Finnish_Kale" title="Finnish Kale">Finnish Kale</a> (<a href="/wiki/Romani_language" title="Romani language">Romani</a>: <i lang="rom">Kàlo</i>; <a href="/wiki/Finnish_language" title="Finnish language">Finnish</a>: <i lang="fi">Kaale</i>; <a href="/wiki/Swedish_language" title="Swedish language">Swedish</a>: <i lang="sv">Kalé</i>) and with the <a href="/wiki/Cal%C3%B3_language" title="Caló language">Caló language</a>. It's probably in the <i><a href="/wiki/OED" class="mw-redirect" title="OED">OED</a></i>: please look it up if you have access, and update the article (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Pronunciation" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Pronunciation">Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Pronunciation</a>). <a href="/wiki/User:Verbcatcher" title="User:Verbcatcher">Verbcatcher</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Verbcatcher" title="User talk:Verbcatcher">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Verbcatcher-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z-Pronounciation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 1 June 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Verbcatcher-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z-Pronounciation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Verbcatcher-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z-Pronounciation"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Verbcatcher-2015-11-28T00:05:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z"></span>It's not in the OED. <a href="/wiki/User:Verbcatcher" title="User:Verbcatcher">Verbcatcher</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Verbcatcher" title="User talk:Verbcatcher">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Verbcatcher-2015-11-28T00:05:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 28 November 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Verbcatcher-2015-11-28T00:05:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Verbcatcher-2015-11-28T00:05:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2015-06-01T18:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-05T09:23:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-05T09:23:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified-2017-12-05T09:23:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-05T09:23:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, </p><p>I have just modified one external link on <a href="/wiki/Kale_(Welsh_Romanies)" class="mw-redirect" title="Kale (Welsh Romanies)">Kale (Welsh Romanies)</a>. 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I made the following changes: </p> <ul><li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080621144356/http://www.valleystream.co.uk/romany-welsh%20.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/20080621144356/http://www.valleystream.co.uk/romany-welsh%20.htm</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.valleystream.co.uk/romany-welsh%20.htm">http://www.valleystream.co.uk/romany-welsh%20.htm</a></li></ul> <p>When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. </p><p>This message was posted before February 2018. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_145#Disable_messages_left_by_InternetArchiveBot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145">After February 2018</a>, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by <b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b>. 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This message is updated dynamically through the template <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Source_check" title="Template:Source check">source check</a>}}</code> <small>(last update: 5 June 2024)</small>. </p> <ul><li>If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=reportfalsepositive">this tool</a>.</li> <li>If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=manageurlsingle">this tool</a>.</li></ul> <p>Cheers.—<a href="/wiki/User:InternetArchiveBot" title="User:InternetArchiveBot"><b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b></a> <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:InternetArchiveBot" title="User talk:InternetArchiveBot">Report bug</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-05T09:23:00.000Z-External_links_modified" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:23, 5 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-05T09:23:00.000Z-External_links_modified"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-05T09:23:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Population_of_3,000?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Population_of_3,000?-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z"><span id="Population_of_3.2C000.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Population_of_3,000?-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z"></span>Population of 3,000?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Population_of_3,000?-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Population of 3,000?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Eldomtom2-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z-Population_of_3,000?"></span>The source for this just says there are 3,000 "gypsies" in Wales, and since this article seems to treat Kale as separate from "romani who happen to live in Wales" this number is likely too high. --<a href="/wiki/User:Eldomtom2" title="User:Eldomtom2">Eldomtom2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eldomtom2" title="User talk:Eldomtom2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Eldomtom2-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z-Population_of_3,000?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:35, 28 July 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Eldomtom2-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z-Population_of_3,000?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Eldomtom2-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z-Population_of_3,000?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-17T21:57:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z"></span>Further research has dug up an estimate that there were 700 to 1,000 Kale in Wales in 2000 from the PhD thesis "'INVISIBLE LIVES': THE GYPSIES AND TRAVELLERS OF BRITAIN" by Colin Clark - it seems doubtful that the population could have tripled in two decades. --<a href="/wiki/User:Eldomtom2" title="User:Eldomtom2">Eldomtom2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eldomtom2" title="User talk:Eldomtom2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-17T21:57:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:57, 17 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-17T21:57:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-17T21:57:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-07-28T09:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:08:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-17T21:57:00.000Z"></span>A population can change from migration as well as having babies and members of the community may have moved in and out of Wales. The thesis you mention is available here.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://era.ed.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1842/8716/Clark2001.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y">[1]</a>. The figure is on page 109 and is sourced to 'Jarman, A. and Jarman, E. (1991)', so this figure is from 1991, not 2000. The original source appears to be an earlier edition of the 2011 book cited in our 'References' section, so there may be an updated figure in the latest edition. PhD theses from reputable universities are usually accepted as reliable sources, so this could be cited. But we should indicate 'as of 1991' and cite the indirect source, see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT">WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Verbcatcher" title="User:Verbcatcher">Verbcatcher</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Verbcatcher" title="User talk:Verbcatcher">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:08:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-17T21:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:08, 18 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:08:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-17T21:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:08:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-17T21:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:17:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:08:00.000Z"></span>"A population can change from migration as well as having babies and members of the community may have moved in and out of Wales." I still do not see how a tripling in two decades could have occured (the current source cited for population is from 2011). --<a href="/wiki/User:Eldomtom2" title="User:Eldomtom2">Eldomtom2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eldomtom2" title="User talk:Eldomtom2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:17:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:17:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:17:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:20:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:17:00.000Z"></span>I am not defending the 3,000 figure which is misrepresenting the source. We should change it to "700 to 1,000 (in 1991)", but please try to get a more modern reliable estimate. <a href="/wiki/User:Verbcatcher" title="User:Verbcatcher">Verbcatcher</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Verbcatcher" title="User talk:Verbcatcher">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:20:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:20, 19 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:20:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:20:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:41:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:20:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="check" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/20px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/30px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/40px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span><span style="display:none">Y</span> Done. <a href="/wiki/User:Verbcatcher" title="User:Verbcatcher">Verbcatcher</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Verbcatcher" title="User talk:Verbcatcher">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:41:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:41, 19 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:41:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:41:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:20:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lead_sentence" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lead_sentence-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lead_sentence-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z"></span>Lead sentence<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lead_sentence-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Lead sentence"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z-Lead_sentence"></span>The definition in the lead sentence looks wrong. This is currently: "The Kale [...] are a group of Romani people in Wales." The article should be about the community, and members of the community may be living outside Wales. I suggest "...originating in Wales". Also, perhaps we should describe them as an '<a href="/wiki/Ethnic_group" class="mw-redirect" title="Ethnic group">ethnic group</a>' in the main text. I think they meet the definition in that article. <a href="/wiki/User:Verbcatcher" title="User:Verbcatcher">Verbcatcher</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Verbcatcher" title="User talk:Verbcatcher">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z-Lead_sentence" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z-Lead_sentence"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z-Lead_sentence"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:14:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z"></span>"originating" would perhaps be misleading considering we are discussing a group that migrated to Wales and then diverged via from the larger group it came from via separation. --<a href="/wiki/User:Eldomtom2" title="User:Eldomtom2">Eldomtom2</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Eldomtom2" title="User talk:Eldomtom2">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:14:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:14, 18 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:14:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:14:00.000Z-Verbcatcher-2021-10-18T05:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:15:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:14:00.000Z"></span>It appears that the the Kale only became a distinctive group when they were in Wales, so it is accurate to say that the Kale originated in Wales. If you go back far enough every population group in Europe originated somewhere else. But I agree that 'originating' may not be ideal. I now propose "The Kale [...] are a group of Welsh <a href="/wiki/Romani_people" title="Romani people">Romani people</a>." <a href="/wiki/User:Verbcatcher" title="User:Verbcatcher">Verbcatcher</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Verbcatcher" title="User talk:Verbcatcher">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)#c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:15:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:15, 19 October 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:15:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Verbcatcher-2021-10-19T07:15:00.000Z-Eldomtom2-2021-10-18T21:14:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)&oldid=1256686144">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kale_(Welsh_Roma)&oldid=1256686144</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_Romani_people_articles" title="Category:Start-Class Romani people articles">Start-Class Romani people articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Romani_people_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Romani people articles">Low-importance Romani people articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Romani_people_pages" title="Category:WikiProject Romani people pages">WikiProject Romani people pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_Wales_articles" title="Category:Start-Class Wales articles">Start-Class Wales articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Wales_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Wales articles">Low-importance Wales articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Wales_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Wales articles">WikiProject Wales articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:Start-Class Ethnic groups articles">Start-Class Ethnic groups articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Low-importance_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:Low-importance Ethnic groups articles">Low-importance Ethnic groups articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Ethnic groups articles">WikiProject Ethnic groups articles</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 11 November 2024, at 03:02<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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