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<a class="vector-toc-link" href="#This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>This article is so big it is causing technical problems</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">16 comments</span> <ul id="toc-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>2024 Țiriac Open is missing</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> 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src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Tennis_ball.svg/28px-Tennis_ball.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Tennis_ball.svg/42px-Tennis_ball.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Tennis_ball.svg/56px-Tennis_ball.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="263" data-file-height="263"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Tennis" title="Portal:Tennis">Tennis portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tennis" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis">WikiProject Tennis</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that relate to <b><a href="/wiki/Tennis" title="Tennis">tennis</a></b> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Tennis" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tennis">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Tennis</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Tennis</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">tennis</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-top"><a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_tennis_articles" title="Category:Top-importance tennis articles">Top</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Top-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tennis/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding:0"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background:transparent;width:100%"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0">Tennis <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tennis/to_do" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis/to do">To-do</a>:</th></tr><tr><td style="text-align:left;padding:5px;background-color:white;border:1px solid #c0c090;margin-top:5px"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><div class="hlist plainlinks" style="text-align:center;font-size:90%;"><ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Tennis%2Fto_do&action=edit">edit</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Tennis%2Fto_do&action=history">history</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Tennis%2Fto_do&action=watch">watch</a></li><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AWikiProject_Tennis%2Fto_do&action=purge">purge</a></li></ul> </div> <table style="background:none;color:inherit;width:auto;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align:top;"> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/75px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/100px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span><br/><div style="width: 55px; height: 0px;"></div> </td> <td> <div style="position: relative; left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; z-index: 15;">Here are some tasks awaiting attention: <ul style="font-size: 100%; margin: 0px; padding: 0.3em 0px 0.3em 25px;"> <li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Cleanup" title="Wikipedia:Cleanup">Cleanup</a></i> :</b> Take an item off the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tennis/Cleanup" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis/Cleanup">Cleanup listing</a></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Basic_copyediting" title="Wikipedia:Basic copyediting">Copyedit</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Roger_Federer" title="Roger Federer">Roger Federer</a>, <a href="/wiki/Leander_Paes" title="Leander Paes">Leander Paes</a>, <a href="/wiki/Rafael_Nadal" title="Rafael Nadal">Rafael Nadal</a>, <a href="/wiki/Justine_Henin" title="Justine Henin">Justine Henin</a> – to be used as examples for ideal page structures</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles" title="Wikipedia:Writing better articles">Expand</a></i> :</b> Grab a <a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_tennis_articles" title="Category:Start-Class tennis articles">Start article</a> and expand it, or peruse the <a href="/wiki/Category:Tennis_articles_by_quality" title="Category:Tennis articles by quality">List of articles</a>.</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_pictures" title="Wikipedia:Requested pictures">Photo</a></i> :</b> Add photos to <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_requested_photographs_of_tennis" title="Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of tennis">Tennis</a> or <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_requested_photographs_of_tennis_people" title="Category:Wikipedia requested photographs of tennis people">Tennis people</a> articles</li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Stub" title="Wikipedia:Stub">Stubs</a></i> :</b> Bring a <a href="/wiki/Category:Stub-Class_tennis_articles" title="Category:Stub-Class tennis articles">Stub</a> up to our <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tennis/Article_Guidelines" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis/Article Guidelines">standards</a>.</li><li><b><i>Other</i> :</b> *Sign up as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tennis/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis/Members">member</a> of the project.<br/>Tag more articles with our standard <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Tennis/Templates" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennis/Templates">project template</a>.<br/>Help with the creation of yearly main articles and drawsheets for every <a href="/wiki/Open_Era_(tennis)" class="mw-redirect" title="Open Era (tennis)">Open Era</a> ATP and WTA tournament.</li> </ul> </div> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z"></span>Somewhat crazy number for this article<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:ATP_250_tournaments&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Somewhat crazy number for this article"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article"></span>The <a href="/wiki/ATP_Tour_Masters_1000" class="mw-redirect" title="ATP Tour Masters 1000">Masters 1000 events</a> have had many names since 1990... Championship Series, Super 9, Tennis Masters Series, ATP Masters Series, etc. But through all those name changes we carry over Masters victories from one name to the next. Federer has won 27 through four name changes. That's how we have always marked things since it is the same level. Why on earth through its four name changes does the 250 level events have multiple stops and starts with player victories? Someone like Tsonga, should have 13 victories in 250 level events, not 1 and 11 and 1. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:53, 20 March 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ui56k-2019-08-05T00:51:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article"></span>I think we should either re-tally all the events, starting from 2000, or just remove all the tally numbers like the <a href="/wiki/ATP_Tour_500" class="mw-redirect" title="ATP Tour 500">ATP Tour 500</a> page does. Also, is there a reason why pre-2000 events are not tallied in this page?--<a href="/wiki/User:Ui56k" title="User:Ui56k">Ui56k</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ui56k" title="User talk:Ui56k">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Ui56k-2019-08-05T00:51:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:51, 5 August 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ui56k-2019-08-05T00:51:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ui56k-2019-08-05T00:51:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="New_ATP_250_logo" data-mw-thread-id="h-New_ATP_250_logo-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-New_ATP_250_logo-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z"></span>New ATP 250 logo<span data-mw-comment-end="h-New_ATP_250_logo-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:ATP_250_tournaments&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: New ATP 250 logo"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z-New_ATP_250_logo"></span>The old version ATP 250 logo need to changes. --<a href="/wiki/User:Chinyen_Lu" title="User:Chinyen Lu">Chinyen Lu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chinyen_Lu" title="User talk:Chinyen Lu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z-New_ATP_250_logo" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 26 March 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z-New_ATP_250_logo"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z-New_ATP_250_logo"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-26T04:59:00.000Z-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z"></span>If we had a new non-copyrighted image, we would. Right now the old is better than nothing. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-26T04:59:00.000Z-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:59, 26 March 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-26T04:59:00.000Z-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-26T04:59:00.000Z-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals?" data-mw-thread-id="h-New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals?-2020-02-03T17:41:00.000Z"><span id="New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals?-2020-02-03T17:41:00.000Z"></span>New Page for ATP 250 Finals?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals?-2020-02-03T17:41:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:ATP_250_tournaments&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: New Page for ATP 250 Finals?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-03T17:41:00.000Z-New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals?"></span>This article is pretty large, especially with the ATP 250 finals section that I added a few months ago. The flag templates aren't loading properly. Would it make sense for someone to create a new article for ATP 250 finals?<a href="/wiki/User:Xc4TNS" title="User:Xc4TNS">Xc4TNS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xc4TNS" title="User talk:Xc4TNS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-03T17:41:00.000Z-New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:41, 3 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-03T17:41:00.000Z-New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-03T17:41:00.000Z-New_Page_for_ATP_250_Finals?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems" data-mw-thread-id="h-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"></span>This article is so big it is causing technical problems<span data-mw-comment-end="h-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:ATP_250_tournaments&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: This article is so big it is causing technical problems"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"></span>See <a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_where_template_include_size_is_exceeded" title="Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded">Category:Pages where template include size is exceeded</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_limits" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Template limits">Wikipedia:Template limits</a> for technical details. </p><p>Common solutions include: </p> <ul><li>Removing flags from competitors if they are competing as individuals "as individuals" and not representing a country, see <a href="/wiki/MOS:FLAG" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:FLAG">MOS:FLAG</a> for appropriate use of flag icons.</li> <li>Splitting the article</li> <li>Removing content</li> <li>Redoing the brackets, tables, or both so the article has less HTML in the resulting web page</li></ul> <p>The simplest thing to do would be to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SPLIT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SPLIT">split</a> off the 2009-2018 content to make an article called <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ATP_World_Tour_250&redirect=no">ATP World Tour 250</a></span> (currently a redirect) similar in spirit to <a href="/wiki/ATP_International_Series" title="ATP International Series">ATP International Series</a>. </p><p>If this is done, be sure to use <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Copied" title="Template:Copied">copied</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>, <span class="nowrap">{{</span><a href="/wiki/Template:Split_article" title="Template:Split article">split article</a><span class="nowrap">}}</span>, or a similar template on BOTH this article's talk page and the new article's talk page to comply with Wikipedia's attribution policy. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copying_within_Wikipedia#Merging_and_splitting" title="Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia">Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia#Merging and splitting</a> for details. </p><p>This page is layed out similar to <a href="/wiki/ATP_Tour_Masters_1000" class="mw-redirect" title="ATP Tour Masters 1000">ATP Tour Masters 1000</a> and <a href="/wiki/ATP_Tour_500" class="mw-redirect" title="ATP Tour 500">ATP Tour 500</a> so any major changes to the layout should be done across all 4 articles even though those pages are not hitting Wikipedia's page limits. </p><p>Other than <b>temporary</b> fixes to get the page down to less than 2MB, changes should be discussed for at least a week first. </p><p>Pinging recent editors: <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Xc4TNS" title="User:Xc4TNS">Xc4TNS</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:GAThrawnIGF" title="User:GAThrawnIGF">GAThrawnIGF</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:CharVixen" title="User:CharVixen">CharVixen</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Wolbo" title="User:Wolbo">Wolbo</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:WOSlinker" title="User:WOSlinker">WOSlinker</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Iffy" title="User:Iffy">Iffy</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Rodw" title="User:Rodw">Rodw</a>:</span>. </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Davidwr" title="User:Davidwr">davidwr</a>/<small><small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidwr" title="User talk:Davidwr">talk</a>)/(<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Davidwr" title="Special:Contributions/Davidwr">contribs</a>)</small></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:40, 11 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:23:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"></span>Strange. It's the same size as our George Washington article and no one says there are issues with that. It's only 3/5s the size of our Roger Federer career statistics article and no problem there. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:23:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:23, 11 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:23:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:23:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:26:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"></span>FWIW, I think that whole section on "Singles finals" is overkill and should be removed. It is probably the big problem as it uses the same template over and over and over. That is what causes issues. The flags are within the parameters of Wikipedia guidelines, but I always thought they weren't needed every single time once they were established for a player. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:26:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 11 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:26:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:26:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T17:40:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T21:09:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:26:00.000Z"></span>I temporarily deleted the new "Singles finals" section and this article disappeared from the error list. That is the culprit here so it should be deleted as overly detailed or a new article should be spun off. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T21:09:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 11 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T21:09:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T21:09:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T20:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidwr-2020-02-11T22:04:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T21:09:00.000Z"></span>Let's wait a week or so before making a permanent decision. If nobody objects, I'd be fine just ditching that material altogether. However, I don't know enough about tennis-related articles on Wikipedia to know if that material is considered "encyclopedic" or not. If it is, it needs to be kept in some form. That said, a temporary deletion of that section with a note in the edit summary pointing to this discussion and a note here saying it's a temporary emergency measure would be okay. If anyone objects, they can and should revert the removal. <a href="/wiki/User:Davidwr" title="User:Davidwr">davidwr</a>/<small><small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidwr" title="User talk:Davidwr">talk</a>)/(<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Davidwr" title="Special:Contributions/Davidwr">contribs</a>)</small></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Davidwr-2020-02-11T22:04:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T21:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 11 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidwr-2020-02-11T22:04:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T21:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidwr-2020-02-11T22:04:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T21:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T22:15:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T22:04:00.000Z"></span>Well, you'll notice right above your added section here, the person who created the "Singles finals" section already posted worries about it's inclusion under "New Page for ATP 250 Finals?". So if it is worthy of keeping (which I'm iffy about) it will need to be spun off as a new article. You temporary measure is not a bad idea and it will allow discussion on the final solution. Let's see what any of the pinged editors think today. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T22:15:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T22:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 11 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T22:15:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T22:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-11T22:15:00.000Z-Davidwr-2020-02-11T22:04:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-12T10:52:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"></span>Not seeing any new posts today, I removed the newer section causing loading issues and mentioned this talk page section in the edit summary. This way the page will load properly while we figure out what to do. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-12T10:52:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:52, 12 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-12T10:52:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-12T10:52:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tvx1-2020-02-12T23:21:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-12T10:52:00.000Z"></span>Do we really need to keep recording every ATP 250 winner ever in this article? I mean, that is an exercise that goes on forever. The article will inevitably become to large to be useful even without the templates. Surely in the individual articles on the ATP World tour seasons already sufficiently provide this information? I would rather model this article after <a href="/wiki/ATP_World_Tour" class="mw-redirect" title="ATP World Tour">ATP World Tour</a> and focus on an extensive readable prose explanation of the concept and its history.<a href="/wiki/User:Tvx1" title="User:Tvx1">T</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tvx1" title="User talk:Tvx1">v</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tvx1" title="Special:Contributions/Tvx1">x</a>1 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Tvx1-2020-02-12T23:21:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-12T10:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:21, 12 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tvx1-2020-02-12T23:21:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-12T10:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tvx1-2020-02-12T23:21:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-12T10:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-13T10:17:00.000Z-Tvx1-2020-02-12T23:21:00.000Z"></span>Isn't the same thing as <a href="/wiki/ATP_Tour_Masters_1000" class="mw-redirect" title="ATP Tour Masters 1000">ATP Tour Masters 1000</a> and <a href="/wiki/ATP_Tour_500" class="mw-redirect" title="ATP Tour 500">ATP Tour 500</a> where we record every winner? <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-13T10:17:00.000Z-Tvx1-2020-02-12T23:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:17, 13 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-13T10:17:00.000Z-Tvx1-2020-02-12T23:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-13T10:17:00.000Z-Tvx1-2020-02-12T23:21:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tvx1-2020-02-13T20:02:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-13T10:17:00.000Z"></span>True. And my arguments apply to those as well.<a href="/wiki/User:Tvx1" title="User:Tvx1">T</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tvx1" title="User talk:Tvx1">v</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tvx1" title="Special:Contributions/Tvx1">x</a>1 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Tvx1-2020-02-13T20:02:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-13T10:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:02, 13 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tvx1-2020-02-13T20:02:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-13T10:17:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tvx1-2020-02-13T20:02:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-13T10:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-14T21:33:00.000Z-Tvx1-2020-02-13T20:02:00.000Z"></span>I would really disagree with the Masters 1000 events. We do it for the four Majors and the Olympics get articles that list all winners in a discipline. I think the 1000 events are pretty darned important. The 500 and 250 events not so much and it's why we don't have them in performance timelines either. You can see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ATP_Tour_250&oldid=253407869">when this article started</a> it was simply a list of the current tournaments along with the current champion. It should have stayed that way with a whole bunch of added prose. But it looks like in 2013 an editor expanded it a great deal. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-14T21:33:00.000Z-Tvx1-2020-02-13T20:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 14 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-14T21:33:00.000Z-Tvx1-2020-02-13T20:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-14T21:33:00.000Z-Tvx1-2020-02-13T20:02:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"></span>As the creator of the ATP 250 finals section, I feel this is justified. My main reason for creating this section was for the sake of continuity with other pages such as the Masters 1000, 500 and International Series page. </p><p>That being said though, I don’t see the point of spin of articles like the ATP Masters Series, International Series Gold and International Series pages if the inclusion of finals stops. What is the difference between tournaments pre and post 2009?. They only serve as pages where data can be split into generational categories with the finals on this page being from 2009 onwards. The tournaments have merely changed names but are the same category since 1990. These pages may as well be merged if people are questioning including the finals in them. </p><p>It would make sense to include the finals for 500’s and Masters 1000’s but only on new pages specifically named “ATP Tour Masters 1000 Finals” or “ATP Tour 500 Finals” as those tournaments are bigger, especially the Masters 1000 events. As for the 250's, it’s up to everyone else but as I’ve already created a list of finals it wouldn’t hurt making a “ATP 250 Finals” page.--<a href="/wiki/User:Xc4TNS" title="User:Xc4TNS">Xc4TNS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xc4TNS" title="User talk:Xc4TNS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:36, 20 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z-This_article_is_so_big_it_is_causing_technical_problems"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Davidwr-2020-02-20T19:32:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z"></span>I don't have a preference one way or the other as long as the resulting page does not come close to Wikipedia's technical limits and is not expected to come close any time soon. <a href="/wiki/User:Davidwr" title="User:Davidwr">davidwr</a>/<small><small>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidwr" title="User talk:Davidwr">talk</a>)/(<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Davidwr" title="Special:Contributions/Davidwr">contribs</a>)</small></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Davidwr-2020-02-20T19:32:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 20 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Davidwr-2020-02-20T19:32:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Davidwr-2020-02-20T19:32:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-20T21:49:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Xc4TNS" title="User:Xc4TNS">Xc4TNS</a>:</span>Editor Tvx1 wasn't just talking about the finals. He said the entire list of winners is trivial, and I tend to agree. The nine 1000 level events are about the limit of including every winner in an article, let alone the full final. This article far too detailed in my book. We don't need a list of every tournament's final on one page. We don't need a list of every tournament winner either. We need 1) Prose describing the formation of the 250 levels events and its past iterations. This prose should include point and money values, historical information and differences between these and 500 level events. We need 2) a list of current and past tournaments with links to their articles which DO have the finals and scores. And 3) we need some statistical important records for these lower tiered 250 level events. That's about it as the rest is window dressing that is actually unwieldy to read through. <a href="/wiki/User:Fyunck(click)" title="User:Fyunck(click)">Fyunck(click)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fyunck(click)" title="User talk:Fyunck(click)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-20T21:49:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:49, 20 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-20T21:49:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-20T21:49:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T18:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T23:37:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-20T21:49:00.000Z"></span>Ah yes, I do see the perspective you’re coming from. These pages are rather bloated. That being said though, with the data already there I don’t think it’s necessary to completely remove all the winners. 250 events might be small but they are part of the highest tier tour in men’s tennis and have been around for awhile so having external data outside of just individual tournament pages and ATP Tour season pages might come in handy for those wanting to check past winners of these events. But yeah, I do believe at least that this page doesn’t need to be overly bloated and all info from the previous editions of the same category such as the International Series needs to be on this page. Also, it might seem a fairly small issue but is the series from 2019 onwards known simply as ATP 250 or ATP Tour 250?. There doesn’t seem to be any official name. ATP 250 does seem to be on the ATP calendar so will it be necessary to rename this page?.--<a href="/wiki/User:Xc4TNS" title="User:Xc4TNS">Xc4TNS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xc4TNS" title="User talk:Xc4TNS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T23:37:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-20T21:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:37, 20 February 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T23:37:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-20T21:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T23:37:00.000Z-Fyunck(click)-2020-02-20T21:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tvx1-2020-03-17T16:32:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T23:37:00.000Z"></span>It is necessary to remove all the winners here. This section was started because it became apparent that this article simply cannot technically handle listing all the winners. We simply cannot keep listing all winners of every ATP 250 that will ever be held in one article.<a href="/wiki/User:Tvx1" title="User:Tvx1">T</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tvx1" title="User talk:Tvx1">v</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Tvx1" title="Special:Contributions/Tvx1">x</a>1 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Tvx1-2020-03-17T16:32:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T23:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:32, 17 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tvx1-2020-03-17T16:32:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T23:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tvx1-2020-03-17T16:32:00.000Z-Xc4TNS-2020-02-20T23:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing" data-mw-thread-id="h-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing-20240415234500"><span id="2024_.C8.9Airiac_Open_is_missing"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing-20240415234500"></span>2024 Țiriac Open is missing<span data-mw-comment-end="h-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing-20240415234500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:ATP_250_tournaments&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: 2024 Țiriac Open is missing"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ritai-20240415234500-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing"></span>hi, <a href="/wiki/2024_%C8%9Airiac_Open" title="2024 Țiriac Open">2024 Țiriac Open</a> is missing from the table. <a href="/wiki/User:Ritai" title="User:Ritai">Ritai</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ritai" title="User talk:Ritai">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:ATP_250_tournaments#c-Ritai-20240415234500-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 15 April 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ritai-20240415234500-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ritai-20240415234500-2024_Țiriac_Open_is_missing"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:ATP_250_tournaments&oldid=1219134840">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:ATP_250_tournaments&oldid=1219134840</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_tennis_articles" title="Category:Start-Class tennis articles">Start-Class tennis articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_tennis_articles" title="Category:Top-importance tennis articles">Top-importance tennis articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Tennis_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Tennis articles">WikiProject Tennis articles</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 15 April 2024, at 23:45<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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</div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-746fb5b8df-q7kg4","wgBackendResponseTime":440,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z","author":"Fyunck(click)","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Fyunck(click)-2019-03-20T03:53:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2019-08-05T00:51:00.000Z","author":"Ui56k","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ui56k-2019-08-05T00:51:00.000Z-Somewhat_crazy_number_for_this_article","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Chinyen_Lu-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-New_ATP_250_logo-2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2019-03-26T04:33:00.000Z","author":"Chinyen 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