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<body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin-vector-legacy mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-4 ns-subject mw-editable page-Wikidata_Property_proposal_thesis_submitted_for rootpage-Wikidata_Property_proposal skin-vector action-view"><div id="mw-page-base" class="noprint"></div> <div id="mw-head-base" class="noprint"></div> <div id="content" class="mw-body" role="main"> <a id="top"></a> <div id="siteNotice"></div> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Wikidata</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Property proposal/thesis submitted for</span></h1> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body"> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikidata</div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">< <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal" title="Wikidata:Property proposal">Wikidata:Property proposal</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="contentSub2"></div> <div id="jump-to-nav"></div> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#mw-head">Jump to navigation</a> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#searchInput">Jump to search</a> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="thesis_submitted_for" data-mw-thread-id="h-thesis_submitted_for-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-thesis_submitted_for-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z"></span><span id="‎thesis_submitted_for"></span><span dir="ltr" lang="en">‎thesis submitted for</span><span data-mw-comment-end="h-thesis_submitted_for-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: ‎thesis submitted for"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Creative_work" title="Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work">Return to Wikidata:Property proposal/Creative work</a></p><div class="property-navibox" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r2262253935">.mw-parser-output .property-navibox{background:var(--background-color-progressive-subtle,#f1f4fd);border:3px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1)}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-header{background:var(--background-color-progressive-subtle,#f1f4fd);outline:3px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1);padding:4px}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links{float:right;margin:0}body.rtl .mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links{float:left}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li{display:inline;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li:after{display:inline;content:" – "}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li:last-child:after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main{overflow-x:auto}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox table{display:table;overflow-x:visible}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main tr{vertical-align:text-top}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox[dir="ltr"] .property-navibox-main th{padding-right:1em;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox[dir="rtl"] .property-navibox-main th{padding-left:1em;text-align:right}@media(max-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-header{display:flex;flex-direction:column-reverse}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main>table>tbody>tr>td,.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main>table>tbody>tr>th{display:block}}</style><div class="property-navibox-header"><ul class="property-navibox-links plainlinks"><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li></ul><div><span style="background-color:#CCC;"> </span> Under discussion</div></div><div class="property-navibox-main"><table><tbody><tr><th>Description</th><td><span dir="ltr" lang="en">academic degree for which a thesis or dissertation is submitted</span></td></tr><tr><th>Data type</th><td><a href="/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:Data_type#wikibase-item" title="Special:MyLanguage/Help:Data type">Item</a></td></tr><tr><th>Domain</th><td>item, <a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Allowed values</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Example 1</th><td><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q28971627" title="Q28971627">A Survey of Radial Velocities in the Zodiacal Dust Cloud <small>(Q28971627)</small></a></b><span class="predicate">→</span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q752297" title="Q752297">Doctor of Philosophy <small>(Q752297)</small></a></span></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r2202089130">.mw-parser-output .statement{margin:0 .2em;background:var(--background-color-base,#fff);color:var(--color-base,#202122);border:1px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1)}.mw-parser-output .statement .subject{padding:0 .2em}.mw-parser-output .statement .predicate{background:var(--background-color-neutral,#eaecf0);color:var(--color-emphasized,#000);padding:0 .2em}.mw-parser-output .statement .object{padding:0 .2em}</style></td></tr><tr><th>Example 2</th><td><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q43257720" title="Q43257720">L'Église et les clercs face aux béguines et aux béghards du Rhin supérieur du XIVe siècle au XVe siècle <small>(Q43257720)</small></a></b><span class="predicate">→</span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q27639256" title="Q27639256">doctorate in History <small>(Q27639256)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"></td></tr><tr><th>Example 3</th><td><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q113686414" title="Q113686414">On stochastic processes <small>(Q113686414)</small></a></b><span class="predicate">→</span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q2248352" title="Q2248352">Doctor of Science <small>(Q2248352)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"></td></tr><tr><th>Example 4</th><td><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q116950303" title="Q116950303">French Books in Early Australian Public and Private Collections <small>(Q116950303)</small></a></b><span class="predicate">→</span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q2091008" title="Q2091008">Master of Arts <small>(Q2091008)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"></td></tr><tr><th>Example 5</th><td><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q76550143" title="Q76550143">Flight Speeds and Energetics of Seven Bird Species <small>(Q76550143)</small></a></b><span class="predicate">→</span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q950900" title="Q950900">Master of Science <small>(Q950900)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"></td></tr><tr><th>Example 6</th><td><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q105097652" title="Q105097652">Some aspects of early castle building in Scotland <small>(Q105097652)</small></a></b><span class="predicate">→</span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q1527520" title="Q1527520">Master of Philosophy <small>(Q1527520)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"></td></tr><tr><th>See also</th><td><a href="/wiki/Property:P4101" title="Property:P4101">thesis submitted to <small dir="ltr">(P4101)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P512" title="Property:P512">academic degree <small dir="ltr">(P512)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P5460" title="Property:P5460">grants <small dir="ltr">(P5460)</small></a></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Motivation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Motivation-thesis_submitted_for-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Motivation-thesis_submitted_for-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z"></span><span dir="ltr" lang="en">Motivation</span><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Motivation-thesis_submitted_for-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Motivation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mzaki-20241117051400-Motivation"></span>Academic thesis is written and submitted to obtain an academic degree, but the property describing this relationship is lacking. Some people try to represent this relationship (see <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://w.wiki/C2$9">[1]</a>) using <a href="/wiki/Property:P512" title="Property:P512">academic degree <small dir="ltr">(P512)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P921" title="Property:P921">main subject <small dir="ltr">(P921)</small></a>, or even <a href="/wiki/Property:P31" title="Property:P31">instance of <small dir="ltr">(P31)</small></a>: </p> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Property:P512" title="Property:P512">academic degree <small dir="ltr">(P512)</small></a>: this describes academic degree that the person holds, and expanding the domain to thesis is bad idea in my opinion.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Property:P921" title="Property:P921">main subject <small dir="ltr">(P921)</small></a>: degree is a goal or purpose, not a topic or subject of thesis.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Property:P31" title="Property:P31">instance of <small dir="ltr">(P31)</small></a>: thesis itself is not a degree.</li></ul> <p>Another way is using a subclass of <a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a> for each kind of <a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a> (see <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://w.wiki/C3Pg">[2]</a>); however, there is no way connecting such subclass and degree item. So it is desirable to create a new property. --<a href="/wiki/User:Mzaki" title="User:Mzaki">Mzaki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mzaki" title="User talk:Mzaki"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-Mzaki-20241117051400-Motivation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:14, 17 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mzaki-20241117051400-Motivation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mzaki-20241117051400-Motivation"></span> </p> <div style="VISIBILITY:hidden;display:none"> <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gengrubber-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z-Motivation"></span>Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:ArthurPSmith" title="User:ArthurPSmith">ArthurPSmith</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Vladimir_Alexiev" title="User:Vladimir Alexiev">Vladimir Alexiev</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vladimir_Alexiev" title="User talk:Vladimir Alexiev"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Toniher" title="User:Toniher">Toniher</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Runner1928" title="User:Runner1928">Runner1928</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Daniel_Mietchen" title="User:Daniel Mietchen">Daniel Mietchen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Daniel_Mietchen" title="User talk:Daniel Mietchen"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Satpal_Dandiwal" title="User:Satpal Dandiwal">Satpal Dandiwal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Satpal_Dandiwal" title="User talk:Satpal Dandiwal">talk</a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Asdfghjohnkl" title="User:Asdfghjohnkl">Asdfghjohnkl</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Sushma_Sharma" title="User:Sushma Sharma">Sushma Sharma</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sushma_Sharma" title="User talk:Sushma Sharma">talk</a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Jsamwrites" title="User:Jsamwrites">John Samuel</a> <a href="/wiki/User:OdileB" title="User:OdileB">OdileB</a>(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:OdileB" title="User talk:OdileB">talk</a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Ivanhercaz" title="User:Ivanhercaz">Ivanhercaz</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Mlemusrojas" title="User:Mlemusrojas">Mlemusrojas</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Jjfloyd" title="User:Jjfloyd">Jjfloyd</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Kippelboy" title="User:Kippelboy">Kippelboy</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Germartin1" title="User:Germartin1">Germartin1</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Benjamenta" title="User:Benjamenta">Benjamenta</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Sic19" title="User:Sic19">Simon Cobb</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:27point7" title="User:27point7">Mathieu Saby</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Kiwi2020" title="User:Kiwi2020">Kiwi2020</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Saethydd" title="User:Saethydd">Saethydd</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Ep%C3%ACdosis" title="User:Epìdosis">Epìdosis</a><br/> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Gengrubber&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Gengrubber (page does not exist)">Gengrubber</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gengrubber&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Gengrubber (page does not exist)"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-Gengrubber-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z-Motivation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:40, 10 December 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gengrubber-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z-Motivation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gengrubber-2019-12-10T04:40:00.000Z-Motivation"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Bluerasberry" title="User:Bluerasberry"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e"><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pru.mitchell-2021-05-24T21:32:00.000Z-Motivation"></span> Blue Rasberry </b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluerasberry" title="User talk:Bluerasberry"><span style="cursor:help"><span style="background:#cedff2;color:#11e">(talk)</span></span></a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Walkuraxx" title="User:Walkuraxx">Walkuraxx</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Sdkb" title="User:Sdkb">Sdkb</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sdkb" title="User talk:Sdkb">talk</a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:IbiloyeAC2" title="User:IbiloyeAC2">IbiloyeAC2</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:IbiloyeAC2" title="User talk:IbiloyeAC2">talk</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Pvperez1" title="User:Pvperez1">Paul Jason Perez</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pvperez1&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Pvperez1 (page does not exist)">talk</a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Waydze" title="User:Waydze">Waydze</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Waydze" title="User talk:Waydze">talk</a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Pru.mitchell" title="User:Pru.mitchell">Pru.mitchell</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pru.mitchell" title="User talk:Pru.mitchell"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-Pru.mitchell-2021-05-24T21:32:00.000Z-Motivation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 24 May 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pru.mitchell-2021-05-24T21:32:00.000Z-Motivation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pru.mitchell-2021-05-24T21:32:00.000Z-Motivation"></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Keystone18" title="User:Keystone18">Keystone18</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Mar%C3%ADa_Sacrist%C3%A1n" title="User:María Sacristán">María Sacristán</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Il_lupa" title="User:Il lupa">Il Lupa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Il_lupa" title="User talk:Il lupa">talk</a>)<br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Athayahisyam" title="User:Athayahisyam">Athayahisyam</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Kippelboy" title="User:Kippelboy">Kippelboy</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:Soufiyouns" title="User:Soufiyouns">Soufiyouns</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/User:CptViraj" title="User:CptViraj">CptViraj</a><br/> </div><p><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/23px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> Notified <a href="/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Higher_education/Participants" title="Wikidata:WikiProject Higher education/Participants">participants of WikiProject Higher education</a> </p><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion-thesis_submitted_for-20241119145500"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion-thesis_submitted_for-20241119145500"></span>Discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion-thesis_submitted_for-20241119145500"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Discussion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ArthurPSmith-20241119145500-Discussion"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/23px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> <b>Comment</b> Another way to link this is via the item for the thesis writer, where you could have a <a href="/wiki/Property:P69" title="Property:P69">educated at <small dir="ltr">(P69)</small></a> statement qualified by <a href="/wiki/Property:P512" title="Property:P512">academic degree <small dir="ltr">(P512)</small></a> and <a href="/wiki/Property:P1026" title="Property:P1026">academic thesis <small dir="ltr">(P1026)</small></a>. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://w.wiki/C7Qa">Here's a query with examples of this.</a> Some of the results seem odd, presumably errors in data entry somewhere. But I'm not sure a new property is necessary here since it's already being done another way? <a href="/wiki/User:ArthurPSmith" title="User:ArthurPSmith">ArthurPSmith</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ArthurPSmith" title="User talk:ArthurPSmith"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-ArthurPSmith-20241119145500-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:55, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ArthurPSmith-20241119145500-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ArthurPSmith-20241119145500-Discussion"></span> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mzaki-20241120013400-ArthurPSmith-20241119145500"></span>When we describe someone's thesis, there are at least 3 elements: <a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a> instance, <a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a> instance, and <a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a> subclass. We could have the following relationships, and I propose the last one: <ol><li><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a></b><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P1026" title="Property:P1026">academic thesis <small>(P1026)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"> (possibly 1:n), and, in reverse, <span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></b><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P50" title="Property:P50">author <small>(P50)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"> (ideally 1:1 but might be 1:n)</li> <li><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a></b><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P512" title="Property:P512">academic degree <small>(P512)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"> (possibly 1:n)</li> <li><span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></b><span class="predicate">→</span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"> (ideally 1:1 but might be 1:n)</li></ol></li> <li>The relationship 3 is an intrinsic property of <a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a>, independent of the fact that the author holds the degree. Imagine that a submitted but failed thesis (I think failed thesis usually does not satisfy <a href="/wiki/Wikidata:N" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikidata:N">WD:N</a> criteria, but there could be exceptional cases).</li> <li>From a practical viewpoint, WikiData data model for the relationships 1 & 2 is not firmly established. One can describe it, as shown by @<a href="/wiki/User:ArthurPSmith" title="User:ArthurPSmith">ArthurPSmith</a>, in <span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a></b><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P69" title="Property:P69">educated at <small>(P69)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q38723" title="Q38723">higher education institution <small>(Q38723)</small></a></span><wbr/><span class="qualifier"><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P512" title="Property:P512">academic degree <small>(P512)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a></span></span><wbr/><span class="qualifier"><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P1026" title="Property:P1026">academic thesis <small>(P1026)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></span></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130">, which works well for course-based degree. But sometimes there are degrees granted to non-student who submits a thesis (frequent in Japan, for example). In such cases, we can describe it <span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a></b><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P512" title="Property:P512">academic degree <small>(P512)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a></span><wbr/><span class="qualifier"><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P1026" title="Property:P1026">academic thesis <small>(P1026)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></span></span><wbr/><span class="qualifier"><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P1027" title="Property:P1027">conferred by <small>(P1027)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q38723" title="Q38723">higher education institution <small>(Q38723)</small></a></span></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130">. Also one can describe these as direct relationships like <span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a></b><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P512" title="Property:P512">academic degree <small>(P512)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130"> & <span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a></b><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P1026" title="Property:P1026">academic thesis <small>(P1026)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130">. So inferring the relationship 3 from 1 & 2 is not a trivial task, especially for person holds multiple degrees. On the contrary, introducing a new property for the relationship 3 is quite straightforward, since it is an intrinsic property of <a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a>.</li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Mzaki" title="User:Mzaki">Mzaki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mzaki" title="User talk:Mzaki"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-Mzaki-20241120013400-ArthurPSmith-20241119145500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mzaki-20241120013400-ArthurPSmith-20241119145500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mzaki-20241120013400-ArthurPSmith-20241119145500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AdamSeattle-20241126141600-Discussion"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/23px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> <b>Comment</b> We created an application profile for our theses and dissertations: <a class="external free" href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_PCC_Wikidata_Pilot/University_of_Washington/Application_Profiles/Dissertations_and_Theses">https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_PCC_Wikidata_Pilot/University_of_Washington/Application_Profiles/Dissertations_and_Theses</a>. We use <a href="/wiki/Property:P31" title="Property:P31">instance of <small dir="ltr">(P31)</small></a> = <a href="/wiki/Q47461344" title="Q47461344">written work <small>(Q47461344)</small></a> (or other appropriate class such as sheet music <a href="/wiki/Q187947" title="Q187947">sheet music <small>(Q187947)</small></a>), and either <a href="/wiki/Q187685" title="Q187685">doctoral thesis <small>(Q187685)</small></a> or <a href="/wiki/Q1907875" title="Q1907875">master's thesis <small>(Q1907875)</small></a>. However, this doesn't specify the specific degree such as Ph.D., Ed.D., D.Mus., etc. The specific degree is given in the graduate student's item who wrote the thesis. <a href="/wiki/User:AdamSeattle" title="User:AdamSeattle">AdamSeattle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AdamSeattle" title="User talk:AdamSeattle"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-AdamSeattle-20241126141600-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:16, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AdamSeattle-20241126141600-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AdamSeattle-20241126141600-Discussion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mzaki-20241126152400-AdamSeattle-20241126141600"></span>Do you mean a thesis is not bound to specific degree at the time of submission in your system, and the committee or the institution decide which degree should be granted to the thesis author, so students cannot expect either Ph.D or D.Mus would be granted before the decision? In my country, almost all thesis is submitted for obtaining specific degree, since there are different standards for granting different degree and students write their thesis to satisfy the standard for specific degree, that means a thesis is bound to specific degree at the time of submission. That's why I need new wikidata property for describing such intrinsic property of <a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a>, as I explained above. <a href="/wiki/User:Mzaki" title="User:Mzaki">Mzaki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mzaki" title="User talk:Mzaki"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-Mzaki-20241126152400-AdamSeattle-20241126141600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mzaki-20241126152400-AdamSeattle-20241126141600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mzaki-20241126152400-AdamSeattle-20241126141600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AdamSeattle-20241126172800-Mzaki-20241126152400"></span>No, I didn't mean that. The thesis is certainly submitted for a particular degree, known in advance. What I meant was that we associate the degree with the person in their item and in the thesis item we can only state that it is an instance of a master's thesis or doctoral thesis. I agree that there is no current way to say which specific degree a thesis was submitted for (M.A., M.S., Ph.D., Ed.D., etc.). If accepted your proposal would provide the means to do that, although perhaps it's a bit redundant with the information in the person item. But if your proposal is approved, we would probably add it to our application profile to use in our thesis items. <a href="/wiki/User:AdamSeattle" title="User:AdamSeattle">AdamSeattle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AdamSeattle" title="User talk:AdamSeattle"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-AdamSeattle-20241126172800-Mzaki-20241126152400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AdamSeattle-20241126172800-Mzaki-20241126152400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AdamSeattle-20241126172800-Mzaki-20241126152400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mzaki-20241127014500-AdamSeattle-20241126172800"></span>Thank you for clarification. As for the redundancy, I think we have to tolerate it, because the relationships among <a href="/wiki/Q5" title="Q5">human <small>(Q5)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a>, and <a href="/wiki/Q38723" title="Q38723">higher education institution <small>(Q38723)</small></a> is not so simple as we instantly imagine. There are thesis-based and non-thesis-based degrees. Both students and non-students are granted thesis-based degrees. There are accepted and failed theses. We need a set of properties sufficient to capture these diverse relationships, which may seem redundant in simpler cases. <a href="/wiki/User:Mzaki" title="User:Mzaki">Mzaki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mzaki" title="User talk:Mzaki"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-Mzaki-20241127014500-AdamSeattle-20241126172800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:45, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mzaki-20241127014500-AdamSeattle-20241126172800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mzaki-20241127014500-AdamSeattle-20241126172800"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mzaki-20241127022300-AdamSeattle-20241126172800"></span>Another comment for the redundancy. We already have <span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></b><span class="predicate"><a href="/wiki/Property:P4101" title="Property:P4101">thesis submitted to <small>(P4101)</small></a></span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q38723" title="Q38723">higher education institution <small>(Q38723)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130">, although this relationship could, possibly, be inferred via the person item using <a href="/wiki/Property:P69" title="Property:P69">educated at <small dir="ltr">(P69)</small></a> or <a href="/wiki/Property:P1027" title="Property:P1027">conferred by <small dir="ltr">(P1027)</small></a> for simpler cases. But this is not an easy task, as similar in the case of <span class="statement"><b class="subject"><a href="/wiki/Q1266946" title="Q1266946">thesis <small>(Q1266946)</small></a></b><span class="predicate">→</span><span class="object"><a href="/wiki/Q189533" title="Q189533">academic degree <small>(Q189533)</small></a></span></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r2202089130">. My proposal is in line with the introduction of <a href="/wiki/Property:P4101" title="Property:P4101">thesis submitted to <small dir="ltr">(P4101)</small></a>, and I think the redundancy claimed is an acceptable price to pay for the practical benefits, as in the case of <a href="/wiki/Property:P4101" title="Property:P4101">thesis submitted to <small dir="ltr">(P4101)</small></a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Mzaki" title="User:Mzaki">Mzaki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mzaki" title="User talk:Mzaki"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/thesis_submitted_for#c-Mzaki-20241127022300-AdamSeattle-20241126172800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:23, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mzaki-20241127022300-AdamSeattle-20241126172800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mzaki-20241127022300-AdamSeattle-20241126172800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ArthurPSmith-20241127185300-AdamSeattle-20241126141600"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b> Ok I think these are good arguments in favor, this can't hurt. <a 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