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The present address (URL) is a <a href="/wiki/Help:Permanent_link" title="Help:Permanent link">permanent link</a> to this revision, which may differ significantly from the <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin">current revision</a></span>.</b></p><div id="revision-info-plain" style="display: none;">Revision as of 23:01, 26 March 2016 by <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" class="mw-userlink" title="User:Ironholds" data-mw-revid="712096997"><bdi>Ironholds</bdi></a> <span class="mw-usertoollinks">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" class="mw-usertoollinks-talk" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ironholds" class="mw-usertoollinks-contribs" title="Special:Contributions/Ironholds">contribs</a>)</span> <span class="comment">(re)</span></div></div><div id="mw-revision-nav">(<a 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Yarvin">diff</a>)</div></div></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Curtis_Yarvin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Curtis_Yarvin-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Curtis_Yarvin-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin" title="Curtis Yarvin">Curtis Yarvin</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Curtis_Yarvin-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <dl><dd><span id="Curtis_Yarvin"></span><span class="plainlinks nourlexpansion lx"><a href="/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin" title="Curtis Yarvin"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-Curtis_Yarvin"></span>Curtis Yarvin</a> (<a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Curtis_Yarvin" title="Special:EditPage/Curtis Yarvin">edit</a> | <a href="/wiki/Talk:Curtis_Yarvin" title="Talk:Curtis Yarvin">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:PageHistory/Curtis_Yarvin" title="Special:PageHistory/Curtis Yarvin">history</a><span class="sysop-show"> | <a href="/wiki/Special:ProtectPage/Curtis_Yarvin" title="Special:ProtectPage/Curtis Yarvin">protect</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:DeletePage/Curtis_Yarvin" title="Special:DeletePage/Curtis Yarvin">delete</a></span> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere/Curtis_Yarvin&limit=999">links</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Curtis_Yarvin&action=watch">watch</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Curtis+Yarvin">logs</a> | <a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?pages=Curtis_Yarvin&project=en.wikipedia.org">views</a>)</span> – (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2016_March_25#Curtis_Yarvin" title="Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2016 March 25">View log</a> <b>·</b> <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/jackbot/snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin">Stats</a></span>)</dd> <dd>(<span class="plainlinks"><i>Find sources:</i> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?as_eq=wikipedia&q=%22Curtis+Yarvin%22">Google</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Curtis+Yarvin%22+-wikipedia">books</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=nws&q=%22Curtis+Yarvin%22+-wikipedia&tbs=ar:1">news</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22Curtis+Yarvin%22">scholar</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=off&tbs=sur:fmc&tbm=isch&q=%22Curtis+Yarvin%22+-site:wikipedia.org+-site:wikimedia.org">free images</a> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&cx=007734830908295939403%3Agalkqgoksq0&cof=FORID%3A13%3BAH%3Aleft%3BCX%3AWikipedia%2520Reference%2520Search&q=%22Curtis+Yarvin%22">WP refs</a>) <b>·</b> <span title="Free English newspaper sources" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_English_newspaper_sources">FENS</a></span> <b>·</b> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22Curtis+Yarvin%22&acc=on&wc=on">JSTOR</a> <b>·</b> <span title="The Wikipedia Library" style="border-bottom: 1px dotted;"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/search/?q=%22Curtis+Yarvin%22">TWL</a></span></span>)</dd></dl> <p>I started looking at this article with the hope of expanding the sourcing, but quickly found...well, that there basically <i>isn't</i> any. </p><p>Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of coverage of Yarvin, but it falls pretty much exclusively into one of two categories: </p> <ul><li>Coverage of his booting from the Strange Loop conference for, well, being an unabashed racist: <dl><dd>[Slate <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/06/curtis_yarvin_booted_from_strange_loop_it_s_a_big_big_problem.html">http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2015/06/curtis_yarvin_booted_from_strange_loop_it_s_a_big_big_problem.html</a>]</dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/06/05/strange-loop-tech-conference-bans-software-engineer-over-political-views/">Breitbart</a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/06/15/a-tech-conference-that-bans-speakers-for-their-politics-must-be-consistent/">Breitbart, again</a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://theconversation.com/cologne-peter-singer-and-disinvitations-43412">The Conversation</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <ul><li>Fragmentary quotes or namedrops in general articles on "what on earth is this whole Dark Englightenment/Neoreactionary thing anyway"? <dl><dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://takimag.com/article/overreacting_to_neoreaction_nicholas_james_pell/print#axzz43vQTPPe8">Taki</a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/22/geeks-for-monarchy/">TechCrunch</a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432876/donald-trump-white-working-class-dysfunction-real-opportunity-needed-not-trump">National Review</a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/03/the_primal_scream_of_the_policy_people.html">American Thinker</a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.buzzfeed.com/rosiegray/how-2015-fueled-the-rise-of-the-freewheeling-white-nationali#.bnX3qJgg">BuzzFeed</a></dd> <dd><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://techcrunch.com/2016/03/05/how-we-may-mesh/">TechCrunch, again</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <p>The only real exception is <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://thebaffler.com/blog/mouthbreathing-machiavellis">this blog entry on The Baffler</a>, which is, well, a blog. A blog on a notable site, but I'm not sure if it qualifies as a reliable source. That's the only coverage I can find absent "he got banned from being a racist" that's more than about two lines long. Essentially it's quintessential <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP1E" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP1E">WP:BLP1E</a>, and should be deleted on that basis. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-Curtis_Yarvin" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-Curtis_Yarvin"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-Curtis_Yarvin"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Man_thinking-2016-03-25T14:55:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span>A similar event happened on March 2016, where Yarvin's participation in LambdaConf generated much controversy. It seems to me that as this is the second controversy <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP1E" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP1E">WP:BLP1E</a> no longer applies. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Man_thinking&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Man thinking (page does not exist)">Man thinking</a> <small class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">undated</a> comment added <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Man_thinking-2016-03-25T14:55:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:55, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Man_thinking-2016-03-25T14:55:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Man_thinking-2016-03-25T14:55:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T18:01:00.000Z-Man_thinking-2016-03-25T14:55:00.000Z"></span>The LambdaConf ban was directly for the fame of his neoreactionary views, so is part of the same thing - <a href="/wiki/User:David_Gerard" title="User:David Gerard">David Gerard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Gerard" title="User talk:David Gerard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T18:01:00.000Z-Man_thinking-2016-03-25T14:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T18:01:00.000Z-Man_thinking-2016-03-25T14:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T18:01:00.000Z-Man_thinking-2016-03-25T14:55:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T15:04:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span>Keep</b> I don't much enjoy writing about Yarvin, but he's unlikely to go away just because we don't like him. I'm surprised to see Ironholds holding this out as BLP1E (Yarvin? He's <i>everywhere</i>, from geekdom to the fruitloop politics of the affluent geek's playpen).</li></ul> <dl><dd>Sad to say, because he really is unspeakably obnoxious, he would have been an interesting speaker at LambdaConf. No-one is more "lambdas everywhere" than Yarvin. <a href="/wiki/User:Andy_Dingley" title="User:Andy Dingley">Andy Dingley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andy_Dingley" title="User talk:Andy Dingley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T15:04:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T15:04:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T15:04:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T16:11:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T15:04:00.000Z"></span>Okay; where is the everywhere, then? I'm looking for coverage >2 lines outside Strange Loop and not seeing it. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T16:11:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T15:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:11, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T16:11:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T15:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T16:11:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T15:04:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T16:11:00.000Z"></span>You listed a fair few yourself, in the nomination (a rather unusual departure for AfDs). If someone makes it to the lowbrow redtops like Buzzfeed, then they really have entered the public consciousness. Not that Buzzfeed is a journal of such repute that you'd wrap your chips in it, but it does refute the notion that Yarvin is only of note in some Randian ivory and monel tower. If you want a readable explanation of Urbit and why the tech geeks are paying interest, then try the Popehat link. <a href="/wiki/User:Andy_Dingley" title="User:Andy Dingley">Andy Dingley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andy_Dingley" title="User talk:Andy Dingley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T16:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T16:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T16:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z"></span>The main problem for this being a separate article right now is that at present, there's basically nothing that's an RS for this stuff. Even Urbit is rather lacking in RSes - <a href="/wiki/User:David_Gerard" title="User:David Gerard">David Gerard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Gerard" title="User talk:David Gerard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:09:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z"></span>Well, I listed Strange Loop references and one-line mentions. If someone makes it to the lowbrow redtops like Buzzfeed, they've entered the public consciousness. If they do it <i>twice</i>, and not in an offhand way, well, then we care. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:09:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:09:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:09:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T17:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sycron-2016-03-25T18:54:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span>Keep</b> Here's an additional potential source: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/11/04/houellebecqs-islam-houellebecqs-west/">NYTimes column mentioning his name</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Sycron" title="User:Sycron">Sycron</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sycron" title="User talk:Sycron">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Sycron-2016-03-25T18:54:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:54, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sycron-2016-03-25T18:54:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sycron-2016-03-25T18:54:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:55:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Sycron" title="User:Sycron">Sycron</a>:</span> as you say, yes, it <i>mentions</i> his name. That's not what <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GNG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GNG">WP:GNG</a> calls for; it has to be substantive coverage. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>)</dd></dl></li> <li><b>Merge and redirect</b> to <a href="/wiki/Dark_Enlightenment" title="Dark Enlightenment">Dark Enlightenment</a>. He's marginally notable, but it's <i>entirely</i> for the DE/neoreaction stuff (which the LambdaConf ban was directly part of). The rest is marginal fluff at this stage. This shows in the article, which has turned into a fancruft piece made of references to his own blog because the third party sources to support a BLP article worth keeping as a separate article don't seem to actually exist. So add what little in <a href="/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin" title="Curtis Yarvin">Curtis Yarvin</a> actually has third-party RS verifiability to that, and redirect there - <a href="/wiki/User:David_Gerard" title="User:David Gerard">David Gerard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Gerard" title="User talk:David Gerard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:55:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:55:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:55:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:18:00.000Z-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:55:00.000Z"></span>I would oppose a merge to either a political or an Urbit article. The problem is that Yarvin has two aspects to him: political and technical. Only by having a stand-alone article for <i>him</i> can we really represent this stuff. As he has already been canned from two conferences because of this overlap, the overlap is one of the most significant aspects about him. <a href="/wiki/User:Andy_Dingley" title="User:Andy Dingley">Andy Dingley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andy_Dingley" title="User talk:Andy Dingley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:18:00.000Z-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:18:00.000Z-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:18:00.000Z-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T17:55:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:22:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:18:00.000Z"></span>True, but of those two things, on a practical basis only one is notable. Has there been any coverage of Urbit outside the "...and he wanted to speak on Urbit but was blocked/churned up drama for being pro-slavery"? He has two elements, yes - only one of those elements, practically, has generated coverage, and it's not his code. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:22:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:22, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:22:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:22:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:18:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:22:00.000Z"></span>He wasn't first invited to LambdaConf <i>because</i> of his political views, but because of the architecture (or deliberate lack of) for Urbit. I first encountered him through the discussion groups around <a href="/wiki/Google_App_Engine" title="Google App Engine">Google App Engine</a> and <a href="/wiki/Amazon_Lambda" class="mw-redirect" title="Amazon Lambda">Amazon Lambda</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Andy_Dingley" title="User:Andy Dingley">Andy Dingley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andy_Dingley" title="User talk:Andy Dingley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:44, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:22:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:46:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z"></span>Which is nice, but still not coverage. There is (fortunately or unfortunately) a gap between being able to point to things people have done and a sort of general gestalt, and notability for those purposes. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:46:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:46:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T19:46:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T21:50:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z"></span>Yes, but there aren't RSes talking about Urbit as a significant thing. It has some techie buzz at the blog level because it's "interesting", in the special techie sense of the word "what the hell even is that" or "I ain't even mad, that's amazing". But it's had zero RS coverage actually about Urbit that I can find. Same for his career in WAP browser development, which I looked quite hard for and found almost no traces of. Blog buzz is not <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> material. Please produce coverage of these things in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RSes</a> that would meet the "every fact has to be demonstrated notable" aspect of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> - <a href="/wiki/User:David_Gerard" title="User:David Gerard">David Gerard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Gerard" title="User talk:David Gerard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T21:50:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T21:50:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T21:50:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T19:44:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T22:04:00.000Z-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T21:50:00.000Z"></span>I'd be hard-pressed to find significant coverage of "<a href="/wiki/WAP_browser" class="mw-redirect" title="WAP browser">WAP browsers</a>". Maybe Grandad would remember them? <a href="/wiki/User:Andy_Dingley" title="User:Andy Dingley">Andy Dingley</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Andy_Dingley" title="User talk:Andy Dingley">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T22:04:00.000Z-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T21:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:04, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T22:04:00.000Z-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T21:50:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T22:04:00.000Z-David_Gerard-2016-03-25T21:50:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&q=wap+browser"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:45:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T22:04:00.000Z"></span>really</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:45:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T22:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:45:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T22:04:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:45:00.000Z-Andy_Dingley-2016-03-25T22:04:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><small class="delsort-notice"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span>Note: This debate has been included in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/People" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/People">list of People-related deletion discussions</a>. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><a href="/wiki/User:Northamerica1000" title="User:Northamerica1000">North America</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Northamerica1000" title="User talk:Northamerica1000"><font size="-2">1000</font></a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><small class="delsort-notice"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-1"></span>Note: This debate has been included in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/Computing" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Computing">list of Computing-related deletion discussions</a>. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><a href="/wiki/User:Northamerica1000" title="User:Northamerica1000">North America</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Northamerica1000" title="User talk:Northamerica1000"><font size="-2">1000</font></a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-1"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd> <dd><small class="delsort-notice"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-2"></span>Note: This debate has been included in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Deletion_sorting/United_States_of_America" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/United States of America">list of United States of America-related deletion discussions</a>. <span class="smallcaps" style="font-variant:small-caps;"><a href="/wiki/User:Northamerica1000" title="User:Northamerica1000">North America</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Northamerica1000" title="User talk:Northamerica1000"><font size="-2">1000</font></a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:56, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-2"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Northamerica1000-2016-03-25T17:56:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z-2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JoshuaZ-2016-03-25T22:16:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span>keep</b> Two separate controversies means that BLP1E doesn' apply. The fact that both controversies are very similar doesn't alter that. <a href="/wiki/User:JoshuaZ" title="User:JoshuaZ">JoshuaZ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JoshuaZ" title="User talk:JoshuaZ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-JoshuaZ-2016-03-25T22:16:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JoshuaZ-2016-03-25T22:16:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JoshuaZ-2016-03-25T22:16:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:46:00.000Z-JoshuaZ-2016-03-25T22:16:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:JoshuaZ" title="User:JoshuaZ">JoshuaZ</a>:</span> where's the RS coverage of the second controversy? <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:46:00.000Z-JoshuaZ-2016-03-25T22:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 25 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:46:00.000Z-JoshuaZ-2016-03-25T22:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:46:00.000Z-JoshuaZ-2016-03-25T22:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:06:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:46:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a>:</span> I take it JoshuaZ is referring to the Yarvin's role in the NRx/DE movement as the "second controversy". As far as RS coverage goes, how about <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite id="CITEREFGere2015" class="citation journal cs1">Gere, Charlie (2015). "13Media". <i>The Year's Work in Critical and Cultural Theory</i>. <b>23</b> (1): 270–290. <a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1093%2Fywcct%2Fmbv012">10.1093/ywcct/mbv012</a>. <a href="/wiki/ISSN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISSN (identifier)">ISSN</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://search.worldcat.org/issn/1077-4254">1077-4254</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=The+Year%27s+Work+in+Critical+and+Cultural+Theory&rft.atitle=13Media&rft.volume=23&rft.issue=1&rft.pages=270-290&rft.date=2015&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1093%2Fywcct%2Fmbv012&rft.issn=1077-4254&rft.aulast=Gere&rft.aufirst=Charlie&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia%3AArticles+for+deletion%2FCurtis+Yarvin" class="Z3988"></span> which says "Perhaps the most disturbing aspect of this kind of thinking can be found in what Nick Land calls the 'Dark Enlightenment', or, in the name coined by Mencius Moldbug (otherwise known as software engineer and quondam poet Curtis Yarvin), the 'Neoreactionary Movement'...". (Surely an academic journal published by OUP is a high quality RS.) <a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SJK" title="User talk:SJK">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:06:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:06, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:06:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:46:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:06:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T23:46:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:06:00.000Z"></span>To my knowledge he's not, no, he's referring to Yarvin being disinvited from a second conference for being, well, a bigot. Again, I'm talking about substantive coverage, not one-line mentions. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:05, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:06:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:06:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:00:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span>Keep</b>. The nom has noted a number of reliable sources covering the StrangeLoop dis-invitation controversy, and mentioning his role in Dark Enlightenment/NRx. RS exist on both topics, and I don't agree that RS covering NRx mention him in the form of "Fragmentary quotes or namedrops in general articles", since it is generally acknowledged that his blog is one of the instigators of the NRx movement. While the dis-invitation and NRx are related, they are separate things (one is a single event which received coverage in RS, the other is an ideological movement which has also received coverage in RS) so I don't think this is BLP1E. <a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SJK" title="User talk:SJK">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:00:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:00, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:00:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:00:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-25T14:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:00:00.000Z"></span>Another RS mentioning him (under his "Mencius Moldbug" psuedonym) is <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><cite id="CITEREFCharlton2010" class="citation journal cs1">Charlton, Bruce G. (2010). "The cancer of bureaucracy: How it will destroy science, medicine, education; and eventually everything else". <i>Medical Hypotheses</i>. <b>74</b> (6): 961–965. <a href="/wiki/Doi_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="Doi (identifier)">doi</a>:<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://doi.org/10.1016%2Fj.mehy.2009.11.038">10.1016/j.mehy.2009.11.038</a>. <a href="/wiki/ISSN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISSN (identifier)">ISSN</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://search.worldcat.org/issn/0306-9877">0306-9877</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Ajournal&rft.genre=article&rft.jtitle=Medical+Hypotheses&rft.atitle=The+cancer+of+bureaucracy%3A+How+it+will+destroy+science%2C+medicine%2C+education%3B+and+eventually+everything+else&rft.volume=74&rft.issue=6&rft.pages=961-965&rft.date=2010&rft_id=info%3Adoi%2F10.1016%2Fj.mehy.2009.11.038&rft.issn=03069877&rft.aulast=Charlton&rft.aufirst=Bruce+G.&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AWikipedia%3AArticles+for+deletion%2FCurtis+Yarvin" class="Z3988"></span>. That's an Elsevier journal, so again should be considered a good quality RS. <a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SJK" title="User talk:SJK">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:09, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:14:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z"></span>Or how about – Dyga, Edwin. The future of Australian conservatism: Mainstream or sidestream? [online]. Quadrant, Vol. 58, No. 10, Oct 2014: 46-58. Availability: <<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://search.informit.com.au/documentSummary;dn=629207990052763;res=IELLCC">http://search.informit.com.au/documentSummary;dn=629207990052763;res=IELLCC</a>> ISSN: 0033-5002. [cited 26 Mar 16]. – which discusses <i>the “Neo-Reactionary” movement (chiefly popularised by the work of Curtis Yarvin</i>. <a href="/wiki/Quadrant_(magazine)" title="Quadrant (magazine)">Quadrant (magazine)</a> is noteworthy as arguably one of the major, if not the major, intellectual outlet of Australian conservatism. <a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SJK" title="User talk:SJK">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:14:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:14, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:14:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJK-2016-03-26T03:14:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:14:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a>:</span> can you quote the excerpts mentioning Yarvin from both, in their entirety? <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:05, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a>:</span> those articles are all paywalled, I don't have access to the full text, but I found them by searching for "Curtis Yarvin" or "Mencius Moldbug" on Google Scholar. But even supposing you are right that they are all "passing mentions", if a wide variety of RS independently mention someone (which is certainly the case here), I'd argue that makes him notable. They all mention him in the context of being one of the leaders/instigators of the DE/NRx movement (I don't believe any of them are talking about the Strange Loop or LambdaConf episodes), and hence they support the position that he is notable in that context. <a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SJK" title="User talk:SJK">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:11, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-26T04:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T06:45:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a>:</span> Actually turns out the Quadrant magazine article is available <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2014/10/future-australian-conservatism/">here</a>. To cite the relevant part fully it says (my emphasis) <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">This reactionary trend has created fertile ground for a host of political sub-currents on the right which explicitly identify away from what has come to characterise mainline conservative politics. Indeed, “conservative” and “conservatism” as political descriptors are becoming increasingly unpopular within what John Derbyshire designates as a broader “Dissident Right”.[2] This is particularly true among the young members of what is sometimes also referred to as the “Orthosphere” (perhaps best exemplified by the work of James Kalb[3]) or the <b>“Neo Reactionary” movement (chiefly popularised by the work of Curtis Yarvin[4])</b>. Their critique has gone beyond that of paleoconservatives, who see the contest within the political establishment as a battle between two wings of liberalism: laissez faire, globalist neo-liberalism on the nominal Right and statist, neo-Marxist social democracy on the Left, both of which paleoconservatives view as corrosive to traditional society and the complex identities and liberties of its constituents.[5] Neo-reactionaries of the Orthosphere broadly agree with this assessment, however they seem to be forming a critique of modern liberalism that is both oppositional to the status quo as much as it also affirms a positive worldview centred on notions of traditional identity. Some of these notions involve a regionalist local patriotism and the celebration of men and women as distinct, complementary sexes. This “identitarian” view is favoured over the abstract universalism of utopian “one-worlders” who see everything traditionalists value as mere “social constructs” to be bureaucratically redesigned at will.</q>–now, you might say that this is just a "passing reference"; but the article is arguing that NRx is one of the chief currents in the contemporary non-mainstream political right, and that Curtis Yarvin is its chief populariser. That's an assertion of notability right there. <a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SJK" title="User talk:SJK">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-SJK-2016-03-26T06:45:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:45, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T06:45:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJK-2016-03-26T06:45:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T15:59:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z"></span>You can argue whatever you want but that doesn't match the notability guidelines. I'd agree, actually, that the Quadrant reference counts (although I disagree that "chief current in non-mainstream political right" is, in and of itself, notable. <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T15:59:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:59, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T15:59:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T15:59:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T06:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T21:21:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-26T15:59:00.000Z"></span>I don't understand why "chief current in the non-mainstream political right" would not be notable. WP covers non-mainstream politics, even extreme right or left politics. If something is so fringe that it doesn't even get any attention in reliable sources, then that would be non-notable. But something non-mainstream, even far from the mainstream, which receives attention in RS, is notable. <a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SJK" title="User talk:SJK">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-SJK-2016-03-26T21:21:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-26T15:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:21, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T21:21:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-26T15:59:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJK-2016-03-26T21:21:00.000Z-Ironholds-2016-03-26T15:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T23:01:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T21:21:00.000Z"></span>Exactly; it's the reliable sources that matter, not the importance of the terms used to describe the subject. See "in and of itself". We're in agreement ;). <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T23:01:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T21:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:01, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T23:01:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T21:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T23:01:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T21:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Greenrd-2016-03-26T13:45:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z"></span>Accepted papers in Medical Hypotheses prior to May 11, 2010 are not a reliable source for anything, because until that time, that journal was not peer-reviewed, and indeed was involved in a controversy for publishing AIDS denialism. That article was accepted on November 26, 2009 so it did not get peer-reviewed.--<a href="/wiki/User:Greenrd" title="User:Greenrd">greenrd</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Greenrd" title="User talk:Greenrd">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Greenrd-2016-03-26T13:45:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:45, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Greenrd-2016-03-26T13:45:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Greenrd-2016-03-26T13:45:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T03:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T21:25:00.000Z-Greenrd-2016-03-26T13:45:00.000Z"></span>Point taken but I'm not sure how it is relevant here. All I am suggesting we use that cite for is to establish notability of Curtis Yarvin, not to establish any factual claims about him or anything else. I don't see how presence or lack of peer review would ultimately change that, since I think peer review would be primarily about validating medical/scientific statements and research methodology, but mentioning Curtis Yarvin doesn't fall under either of those headings. <a href="/wiki/User:SJK" title="User:SJK">SJK</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SJK" title="User talk:SJK">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-SJK-2016-03-26T21:25:00.000Z-Greenrd-2016-03-26T13:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:25, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SJK-2016-03-26T21:25:00.000Z-Greenrd-2016-03-26T13:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SJK-2016-03-26T21:25:00.000Z-Greenrd-2016-03-26T13:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T23:01:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T21:25:00.000Z"></span>Because the absence of peer review and the fact that it publishes AIDS denialism would suggest it's not a reliable source? <a href="/wiki/User:Ironholds" title="User:Ironholds">Ironholds</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ironholds" title="User talk:Ironholds">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin#c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T23:01:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T21:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:01, 26 March 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T23:01:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T21:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ironholds-2016-03-26T23:01:00.000Z-SJK-2016-03-26T21:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></li></ul>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin&oldid=712096997">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Curtis_Yarvin&oldid=712096997</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:AfD_debates_(Biographical)" title="Category:AfD debates (Biographical)">AfD debates (Biographical)</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:AfD_debates" title="Category:AfD debates">AfD debates</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 26 March 2016, at 23:01<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright"><span class="nowraplinks">This version of the page has been <a href="/wiki/Help:Page_history" title="Help:Page history">revised</a>. 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