Precision in different multimeter readings...

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It may not display this or other websites correctly.<br />You should upgrade or use an <a href="https://www.google.com/chrome/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">alternative browser</a>.</div> <div class="p-body-header"> <div class="p-title "> <h1 class="p-title-value">Precision in different multimeter readings...</h1> </div> <div class="p-description"> <ul class="listInline listInline--bullet"> <li> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-user" aria-hidden="true" title="Thread starter"></i> <span class="u-srOnly">Thread starter</span> <a href="/members/externet.13892/" class="username u-concealed" dir="auto" data-user-id="13892" data-xf-init="member-tooltip">Externet</a> </li> <li> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-clock" aria-hidden="true" title="Start date"></i> <span class="u-srOnly">Start date</span> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/" class="u-concealed"><time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-11-21T19:45:05+0000" data-time="1732218305" data-date-string="Nov 21, 2024" data-time-string="7:45 PM" title="Nov 21, 2024 at 7:45 PM">Thursday at 7:45 PM</time></a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="p-body-main p-body-main--withSidebar "> <div class="p-body-contentCol"></div> <div class="p-body-sidebarCol"></div> <div class="p-body-content">  <div id='div-gpt-eda_wallpaper'> <script> googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-eda_wallpaper'); }); </script> </div> <div class="p-body-pageContent"> <div class="block block--messages " data-xf-init="lightbox select-to-quote" data-message-selector=".js-post" data-lb-id="thread-413099"> <div class="block-outer"></div> <div class="block-outer js-threadStatusField"></div> <div class="block-container"> <div class="block-body"> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="Externet" data-content="post-1784320" id="js-post-1784320" > <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-1784320"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784320" rel="nofollow" > <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-11-21T19:45:05+0000" data-time="1732218305" data-date-string="Nov 21, 2024" data-time-string="7:45 PM" title="Nov 21, 2024 at 7:45 PM">Thursday at 7:45 PM</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784320" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/1784320/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784320" rel="nofollow"> #1 </a> </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" > <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/members/externet.13892/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="13892" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/data/avatars/m/13/13892.jpg?1591248332" alt="Externet" class="avatar-u13892-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/members/externet.13892/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="13892" data-xf-init="member-tooltip">Externet</a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto">Advanced Member level 2</h5> </div> <img src="/styles/images/ranks/glevel2.gif" alt="Advanced Member level 2"> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified joinedBlock"> <dt>Joined</dt> <dd>Jan 29, 2004</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified pairs--xbBoxed"> <dt>Messages</dt> <dd>612</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt> Helped</dt> <dd>28</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Reputation </dt> <dd> <a href="/reputation/authors/externet.13892" class="fauxBlockLink-linkRow u-concealed">58</a> </dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Reaction score</dt> <dd>30</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified pairs--xbBoxed trophyBlock"> <dt>Trophy points</dt> <dd>1,308</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified locationBlock"> <dt>Location</dt> <dd> <a href="/misc/location-info?location=Mideast+US" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank" class="u-concealed">Mideast US</a> </dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified creditBlock"> <dt title="Activity points">Activity points</dt> <dd> <a href="/activity/" data-xf-click="overlay" class="fauxBlockLink-blockLink u-concealed"> 6,113 </a> </dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784320" data-lb-caption-desc="Externet · Nov 21, 2024 at 7:45 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div > <div class="bbWrapper">Greetings.<br /> Readings of a battery showed 14.4V, 13.9V, 15.5V, 14.7V with four different high impedance 'modern' digital voltmeters for general use (not professional bench instruments). <br /> Probably other scales and measurements are also imprecise.<br /> <br /> How to discern which reading - instrument is more reliable as I think cannot be user calibrated -never seen a manual with calibration instructions- <br /> Any way to make/obtain a home-made decent voltage reference ? Would a fresh-new carbon-zinc cell be decent ? What for higher voltage scales ? <br /> How do you and how often check accuracy of your daily use multimeters ?<br /> <br /> Checking against a decent oscilloscope falls also to the same uncertainty of such reference being precise. What % of error is reasonable to accept ? Sometimes I charge lithium cells and prefer to avoid errors as their maximum voltage is not very forgiving.<br /> <br /> For resistance measurements, perhaps there is a reference kit in the market you prefer to use ? What would you get without breaking the wallet ?</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/reply?quote=1784320" class="actionBar-action actionBar-action--reply" title="Reply, quoting this message" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="quote" data-quote-href="/posts/1784320/quote">Reply</a> </div> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <br/> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> </div> </article> </div> </div> </div> <div class="block block--messages" data-xf-init="" data-type="post" data-href="/inline-mod/" data-search-target="*"> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="posts"></span> <div class="block-outer"><div class="block-outer-opposite"> <div class="tabs 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href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784322" rel="nofollow"> #2 </a> </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.edaboard.com/members/d-a-tony-stewart.134022/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.edaboard.com/members/d-a-tony-stewart.134022/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/members/d-a-tony-stewart.134022/" class="avatar avatar--m" data-user-id="134022" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"> <img src="/data/avatars/m/134/134022.jpg?1703022794" alt="D.A.(Tony)Stewart" class="avatar-u134022-m" width="96" height="96" loading="lazy" itemprop="image" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="message-userDetails"> <h4 class="message-name"><a href="/members/d-a-tony-stewart.134022/" class="username " dir="auto" data-user-id="134022" data-xf-init="member-tooltip"><span itemprop="name">D.A.(Tony)Stewart</span></a></h4> <h5 class="userTitle message-userTitle" dir="auto" itemprop="jobTitle">Advanced Member level 7</h5> </div> <img src="/styles/images/ranks/hlevel4.gif" alt="Advanced Member level 7"> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified joinedBlock"> <dt>Joined</dt> <dd>Sep 26, 2007</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified pairs--xbBoxed"> <dt>Messages</dt> <dd>9,854</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt> Helped</dt> <dd>1,854</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Reputation </dt> <dd> <a href="/reputation/authors/d-a-tony-stewart.134022" class="fauxBlockLink-linkRow u-concealed">3,709</a> </dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Reaction score</dt> <dd>2,408</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified pairs--xbBoxed trophyBlock"> <dt>Trophy points</dt> <dd>1,413</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified locationBlock"> <dt>Location</dt> <dd> <a href="/misc/location-info?location=Richmond+Hill%2C+ON%2C+Canada" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank" class="u-concealed">Richmond Hill, ON, Canada</a> </dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified creditBlock"> <dt title="Activity points">Activity points</dt> <dd> <a href="/activity/" data-xf-click="overlay" class="fauxBlockLink-blockLink u-concealed"> 63,098 </a> </dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784322" data-lb-caption-desc="D.A.(Tony)Stewart · Nov 21, 2024 at 8:21 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">It depends on your test method. Is it static DC only, AC ripple will add error.<br /> <br /> the scope has a calibration ref. no? And specs... read them<br /> <br /> If the DMM's have no specs or manual, then not very reliable.<br /> I would expect <1% error</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/reply?quote=1784322" class="actionBar-action actionBar-action--reply" title="Reply, quoting this message" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="quote" data-quote-href="/posts/1784322/quote">Reply</a> </div> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <br/> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" 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</dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified pairs--xbBoxed trophyBlock"> <dt>Trophy points</dt> <dd>113</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified creditBlock"> <dt title="Activity points">Activity points</dt> <dd> <a href="/activity/" data-xf-click="overlay" class="fauxBlockLink-blockLink u-concealed"> 15,118 </a> </dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784331" data-lb-caption-desc="danadakk · Nov 21, 2024 at 10:23 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Precision V references :<br /> <br /> <div> <a href="https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/1021fc.pdf" class="link link--external" target="_blank" rel="nofollow ugc noopener" data-proxy-href=""> https://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/1021fc.pdf </a> </div> <br /> <div> <a href="https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/SLYT183" class="link link--external" target="_blank" rel="nofollow ugc noopener" data-proxy-href=""> https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/SLYT183 </a> </div> <br /> <div> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+voltage+reference" class="link link--external" target="_blank" rel="nofollow ugc noopener" data-proxy-href=""> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=diy+voltage+reference </a> </div> <br /> <br /> Regards, Dana.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div 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class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784333" data-lb-caption-desc="Easy peasy · Nov 21, 2024 at 10:52 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">You don't state how many seconds between readings ! also any ripple will affect a non true rms meter.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/reply?quote=1784333" class="actionBar-action actionBar-action--reply" title="Reply, quoting this message" rel="nofollow" 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data-lb-caption-desc="D.A.(Tony)Stewart · Nov 22, 2024 at 12:24 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">If there is radiated RF, twist the leads to see if it changes.<br /> Show your DMM's and what did you measure?<br /> car?</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/reply?quote=1784335" class="actionBar-action actionBar-action--reply" title="Reply, quoting this message" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="quote" 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itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" itemid="https://www.edaboard.com/posts/1784336/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.edaboard.com/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-1784336"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784336" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-11-22T00:39:41+0000" data-time="1732235981" data-date-string="Nov 22, 2024" data-time-string="12:39 AM" title="Nov 22, 2024 at 12:39 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Yesterday at 12:39 AM</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784336" 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</div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784336" data-lb-caption-desc="BradtheRad · Nov 22, 2024 at 12:39 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Certain IC instructions told me about built-in reference voltages. Example, 3914 (popular bargraph IC) makes a default volt separation between each level. Example, TL431 produces its own 2.495V reference.<br /> <br /> I used the above when I wished to calibrate my meters. A year or two ago I picked up a Craftsman DMM on sale at Sears. I compared its new readings with my other meters. The differences were slight, so I'm happy.<br /> <br /> For as long as I remember a 12V car battery (according to electronics articles) in good health is really 12.6V after resting half a warm day. Supposedly your meter can read 12.4-12.8 and still be within two percent.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/reply?quote=1784336" class="actionBar-action actionBar-action--reply" title="Reply, quoting this message" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="quote" data-quote-href="/posts/1784336/quote">Reply</a> </div> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <br/> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> <div 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points</dt> <dd> <a href="/activity/" data-xf-click="overlay" class="fauxBlockLink-blockLink u-concealed"> 175,784 </a> </dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784350" data-lb-caption-desc="KlausST · Nov 22, 2024 at 7:43 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Hi,<br /> <blockquote data-attributes="member: 13892" data-quote="Externet" data-source="post: 1784320" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=1784320" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1784320">Externet said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Readings of a battery showed 14.4V, 13.9V, 15.5V, 14.7V with four different high impedance 'modern' digital voltmeters for general use (not professional bench instruments).<br /> Probably other scales and measurements are also imprecise. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Terminology: this is not a precision problem, this is an accuracy problem.<br /> Accuracy error: is how much you are away from the true value. (usually given in "% FS, plus offset")<br /> Precision error: = repeatability error. Do the same measurement multiple times with the same equippment and see how much one value differs from the other.<br /> (usually given in "+/- some mV")<br /> <br /> But here - as I understand - you want to know the real, absolute voltage of a battery.<br /> <br /> --> For this you need to be sure the voltage of the battery is stable, and not influenced by other devices. Best: do not connected to anything else than your voltmeter.<br /> (no charger, no load ....)<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="member: 573147" data-quote="Easy peasy" data-source="post: 1784333" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=1784333" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1784333">Easy peasy said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> You don't state how many seconds between readings ! also any ripple will affect a non true rms meter. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>The batteries are DC .. so use the voltmeter in DC mode. (= average mode, or low pass filtered)<br /> Don´t use AC mode. <br /> Don´t use true RMS mode, since this is for AC measurements. Many DVMs in trueRMS mode only show the AC components (no DC at all), so only values in the mV region on a (let´s say 12V) battery.<br /> <br /> ***<br /> <br /> Time between measuremets: Batteries (alone) don´t have ripple. (Only ignorable noise caused by the chemistry)<br /> But the voltage may drift:<br /> * with temperature (very slow)<br /> * after a charging process (for some minutes) --> wait 5 minutes after charging<br /> * after a discharging process (for some minutes) --> wait 5 minutes after discharging<br /> * during and a bit after mechanical movement (moving fluid inside, bubbles..) --> wait 5 minutes after moving<br /> <br /> ***<br /> I´m currently running a measurement during charging/discharging batteries. Big truck batteries, for currents up to 2000A. Load and charging current is only 16A and 6A respectively. My measurement equippment gives an "average value over 20ms" .. every 20ms. Then every second the min and max of the past 50 values are calculated.<br /> Even during charging/discharging the (50) values are <u>precise</u> to +/- 2mV (on a 24V nominal battery voltage).<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="member: 13892" data-quote="Externet" data-source="post: 1784320" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=1784320" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1784320">Externet said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Any way to make/obtain a home-made decent voltage reference ? Would a fresh-new carbon-zinc cell be decent ? What for higher voltage scales ?<br /> How do you and how often check accuracy of your daily use multimeters ? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>REF: I have a reference voltage IC for 5.000V used to check my meters. (For sure<br /> <br /> Meters: <br /> * I have an expensive one, reliable, just for the lab. <br /> * And a FLUKE handheld. <br /> * I have a cheap one for coarse measurement on a construction site.<br /> * And I have my own designed ones (Especially designed for fast measuremnts on AC loads. With USB interface). They are as stable as the expensive one .. and much better than the Fluke one - especially at low AC and DC voltages.<br /> <br /> (I think about designing my own AC reference. 3 phase one with let´s say 5.000V RMS pure sine 50/60Hz. With fixed 120° phase shift and an adjustable phase shift. A unique design ensures very accurate and precise voltage as well as phase. Anyone interested: please contact me).<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="member: 13892" data-quote="Externet" data-source="post: 1784320" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=1784320" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1784320">Externet said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Checking against a decent oscilloscope </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Most scopes are not accurate ... at least not in the meaning of a reference.<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="member: 13892" data-quote="Externet" data-source="post: 1784320" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=1784320" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1784320">Externet said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> For resistance measurements, </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>You need to provide informations. There are good circuits for high resistance values ... and there are other good circuis for low resistance. <br /> <br /> --> Expected measurement range. Expected accuracy? 2Wire, 3W, 4W? Battery powered? Display or with interface?<br /> <br /> *****<br /> <u>But back to your batteries:</u><br /> Absolute voltage measurement does not give much information about a battery. The absolutoe volatge depends on a alot of parameters, like production, chemistry, age (health), charging state, temperature, <br /> --> if you get an accurate voltage of a battery - let´s say 12.34V ..it tells about nothing.<br /> <br /> Accurate voltage measurement is only useful for special situations: Like "end of charging" detection on LiIon batteries. During constant_current charging at room temperature. <br /> <br /> Or to see the the difference before and after a high current pulse (which can be healthy for some chemistry) regarding V to charge dependency.<br /> <br /> Klaus</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/reply?quote=1784350" class="actionBar-action actionBar-action--reply" title="Reply, quoting this message" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="quote" data-quote-href="/posts/1784350/quote">Reply</a> </div> </div> <div class="reactionsBar 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<div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784383" data-lb-caption-desc="Externet · Nov 22, 2024 at 4:27 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">Thanks.<br /> Unloaded battery measured is a series of 12cell NiMH presenting different readings on a variety of multimeters, prompting this thread.<br /> <br /> <script class="js-extraPhrases" type="application/json"> { "lightbox_close": "Close", "lightbox_next": "Next", "lightbox_previous": "Previous", "lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.", "lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow", "lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow", "lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen", "lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails", "lightbox_download": "Download", "lightbox_share": "Share", "lightbox_zoom": "Zoom", "lightbox_new_window": "New window", "lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar" } </script> <div class="bbImageWrapper js-lbImage" title="P1020405.JPG" data-src="https://www.edaboard.com/attachments/p1020405-jpg.195494/" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html="" data-single-image="1"> <img src="https://www.edaboard.com/attachments/p1020405-jpg.195494/" data-url="" class="bbImage" data-zoom-target="1" style="" alt="P1020405.JPG" title="P1020405.JPG" width="2048" height="1360" loading="lazy" /> </div><br /> <br /> Perhaps a simple kit as this can improve certainty to a reasonable level, unless you suggest other; but is of no help for voltages around 100VDC. <br /> <br /> <div class="bbImageWrapper 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data-lb-caption-desc="barry · Nov 22, 2024 at 4:53 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 573147" data-quote="Easy peasy" data-source="post: 1784333" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=1784333" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1784333">Easy peasy said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> You don't state how many seconds between readings ! also any ripple will affect a non true rms meter. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Ripple on a battery?</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div 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src="/styles/images/ranks/hlevel4.gif" alt="Advanced Member level 7"> <div class="message-userExtras"> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified joinedBlock"> <dt>Joined</dt> <dd>Sep 26, 2007</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified pairs--xbBoxed"> <dt>Messages</dt> <dd>9,854</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt> Helped</dt> <dd>1,854</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Reputation </dt> <dd> <a href="/reputation/authors/d-a-tony-stewart.134022" class="fauxBlockLink-linkRow u-concealed">3,709</a> </dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified"> <dt>Reaction score</dt> <dd>2,408</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified pairs--xbBoxed trophyBlock"> <dt>Trophy points</dt> <dd>1,413</dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified locationBlock"> <dt>Location</dt> <dd> <a href="/misc/location-info?location=Richmond+Hill%2C+ON%2C+Canada" rel="nofollow noreferrer" target="_blank" class="u-concealed">Richmond Hill, ON, Canada</a> </dd> </dl> <dl class="pairs pairs--justified creditBlock"> <dt title="Activity points">Activity points</dt> <dd> <a href="/activity/" data-xf-click="overlay" class="fauxBlockLink-blockLink u-concealed"> 63,098 </a> </dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784394" data-lb-caption-desc="D.A.(Tony)Stewart · Nov 22, 2024 at 5:52 PM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper">I have an old HP3748A 6 digit multimeter if I ever need accuracy, precision, A handheld Fluke and a couple other DMMs and an old analog Simpon meter good for 200 mV FSD and collecting dust. But I like my Chinese 65W digital power supply with 3 displays V, A, W that can measure external V with 4 digits and CC digital tuning, so I can charge any battery I use and compute ESR, kF easily.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/reply?quote=1784394" class="actionBar-action actionBar-action--reply" title="Reply, quoting this message" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="quote" data-quote-href="/posts/1784394/quote">Reply</a> </div> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <br/> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--vote"> <div class="message-column"> <div class="contentVote js-contentVote " data-xf-init="content-vote" data-content-id="post-1784394"> <meta itemprop="upvoteCount" content="0" /> <a href="javascript:" class="contentVote-vote is-disabled contentVote-vote--up " data-vote="up"><span class="u-srOnly">Upvote</span></a> <span class="contentVote-score js-voteCount" data-score="0">0</span> <a href="javascript:" class="contentVote-vote is-disabled contentVote-vote--down " data-vote="down"><span class="u-srOnly">Downvote</span></a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </article> <article class="message message--post js-post js-inlineModContainer " data-author="dick_freebird" data-content="post-1784433" id="js-post-1784433" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Answer" itemid="https://www.edaboard.com/posts/1784433/"> <meta itemprop="parentItem" itemscope itemid="https://www.edaboard.com/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/" /> <span class="u-anchorTarget" id="post-1784433"></span> <div class="message-header"> <header class="message-attribution message-attribution--split"> <ul class="message-attribution-main listInline "> <li class="u-concealed"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784433" rel="nofollow" itemprop="url"> <time class="u-dt" dir="auto" datetime="2024-11-23T08:08:06+0000" data-time="1732349286" data-date-string="Nov 23, 2024" data-time-string="8:08 AM" title="Nov 23, 2024 at 8:08 AM" itemprop="datePublished">Today at 8:08 AM</time> </a> </li> </ul> <ul class="message-attribution-opposite message-attribution-opposite--list "> <li> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784433" class="message-attribution-gadget" data-xf-init="share-tooltip" data-href="/posts/1784433/share" aria-label="Share" rel="nofollow"> <i class="fa--xf fal fa-share-alt" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> </li> <li> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/post-1784433" rel="nofollow"> #11 </a> </li> </ul> </header> </div> <div class="message-inner"> <div class="message-cell message-cell--user"> <section class="message-user" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/Person" itemid="https://www.edaboard.com/members/dick_freebird.159097/"> <meta itemprop="url" content="https://www.edaboard.com/members/dick_freebird.159097/" /> <div class="message-avatar "> <div class="message-avatar-wrapper"> <a href="/members/dick_freebird.159097/" class="avatar avatar--m avatar--default avatar--default--dynamic" data-user-id="159097" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" style="background-color: #336633; 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Some, but fewer I.<br /> Major brands are trustworthy.<br /> <br /> Much more trustworthy than pile of crusty<br /> you've got there, and methods? <br /> <br /> Number one, hook them all up at the same <br /> time to the same source and same return <br /> points. Observe readings for variation <br /> over time. Put data in order and report.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a href="/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/reply?quote=1784433" class="actionBar-action actionBar-action--reply" title="Reply, quoting this message" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="quote" data-quote-href="/posts/1784433/quote">Reply</a> </div> </div> <div class="reactionsBar js-reactionsList "> </div> <br/> <div class="js-historyTarget message-historyTarget toggleTarget" data-href="trigger-href"></div> </footer> </div> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--vote"> <div 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class="pairs pairs--justified creditBlock"> <dt title="Activity points">Activity points</dt> <dd> <a href="/activity/" data-xf-click="overlay" class="fauxBlockLink-blockLink u-concealed"> 27,683 </a> </dd> </dl> </div> <span class="message-userArrow"></span> </section> </div> <div class="message-cell message-cell--main"> <div class="message-main js-quickEditTarget"> <div class="message-content js-messageContent"> <div class="message-userContent lbContainer js-lbContainer " data-lb-id="post-1784445" data-lb-caption-desc="Easy peasy · Nov 23, 2024 at 8:48 AM"> <article class="message-body js-selectToQuote"> <div itemprop="text"> <div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 35520" data-quote="barry" data-source="post: 1784384" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=1784384" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-1784384">barry said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Ripple on a battery? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Yup - for all we know the battery was in circuit and being charged ( 100/120 Hz ) or discharged into a pulsy load - one never knows with random posts from non educated posters.</div> </div> <div class="js-selectToQuoteEnd"> </div> </article> </div> </div> <footer class="message-footer"> <div class="message-microdata" itemprop="interactionStatistic" itemtype="https://schema.org/InteractionCounter" itemscope> <meta itemprop="userInteractionCount" content="0" /> <meta itemprop="interactionType" content="https://schema.org/LikeAction" /> </div> <div class="message-actionBar actionBar"> <div class="actionBar-set actionBar-set--external"> <a 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Are you sure you want to submit this form?", attach: "Attach files", rich_text_box: "Rich text box", close: "Close", link_copied_to_clipboard: "Link copied to clipboard.", text_copied_to_clipboard: "Text copied to clipboard.", loading: "Loading…", you_have_exceeded_maximum_number_of_selectable_items: "You have exceeded the maximum number of selectable items.", processing: "Processing", 'processing...': "Processing…", showing_x_of_y_items: "Showing {count} of {total} items", showing_all_items: "Showing all items", no_items_to_display: "No items to display", number_button_up: "Increase", number_button_down: "Decrease", push_enable_notification_title: "Push notifications enabled successfully at Forum for Electronics", push_enable_notification_body: "Thank you for enabling push notifications!", pull_down_to_refresh: "Pull down to refresh", release_to_refresh: "Release to refresh", refreshing: "Refreshing…" , "svStandardLib_time.day": "{count} day", "svStandardLib_time.days": "{count} days", "svStandardLib_time.hour": "{count} hour", "svStandardLib_time.hours": "{count} hours", "svStandardLib_time.minute": "{count} minutes", "svStandardLib_time.minutes": "{count} minutes", "svStandardLib_time.month": "{count} month", "svStandardLib_time.months": "{count} months", "svStandardLib_time.second": "{count} second", "svStandardLib_time.seconds": "{count} seconds", "svStandardLib_time.week": "time.week", "svStandardLib_time.weeks": "{count} weeks", "svStandardLib_time.year": "{count} year", "svStandardLib_time.years": "{count} years" }); </script> <form style="display:none" hidden="hidden"> <input type="text" name="_xfClientLoadTime" value="" id="_xfClientLoadTime" title="_xfClientLoadTime" tabindex="-1" /> </form>  <script type="application/ld+json"> { "@context": "https://schema.org", "@type": "QAPage", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/", "mainEntity": { "@type": "Question", "@id": "https://www.edaboard.com/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/", "name": "Precision in different multimeter readings...", "datePublished": "2024-11-21T19:45:05+00:00", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/threads/precision-in-different-multimeter-readings.413099/", "text": "Greetings.\nReadings of a battery showed 14.4V, 13.9V, 15.5V, 14.7V with four different high impedance 'modern' digital voltmeters for general use (not professional bench instruments). \nProbably other scales and measurements are also imprecise.\n\nHow to discern which reading - instrument is more reliable as I think cannot be user calibrated -never seen a manual with calibration instructions- \nAny way to make/obtain a home-made decent voltage reference ? Would a fresh-new carbon-zinc cell be decent ? What for higher voltage scales ? \nHow do you and how often check accuracy of your daily use multimeters ?\n\nChecking against a decent oscilloscope falls also to the same uncertainty of such reference being precise. What % of error is reasonable to accept ? Sometimes I charge lithium cells and prefer to avoid errors as their maximum voltage is not very forgiving.\n\nFor resistance measurements, perhaps there is a reference kit in the market you prefer to use ? What would you get without breaking the wallet ?", "answerCount": 11, "upvoteCount": 0, "author": { "@type": "Person", "@id": "https://www.edaboard.com/members/externet.13892/", "name": "Externet", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/members/externet.13892/" }, "suggestedAnswer": [ { "@type": "Answer", "datePublished": "2024-11-23T08:48:19+00:00", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/posts/1784445/", "text": "Ripple on a battery?\n\nYup - for all we know the battery was in circuit and being charged ( 100/120 Hz ) or discharged into a pulsy load - one never knows with random posts from non educated posters.", "upvoteCount": 0, "author": { "@type": "Person", "@id": "https://www.edaboard.com/members/easy-peasy.573147/", "name": "Easy peasy", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/members/easy-peasy.573147/" } }, { "@type": "Answer", "datePublished": "2024-11-23T08:08:06+00:00", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/posts/1784433/", "text": "You can order sub-% resistors from distributors.\nSo too voltage references. Some, but fewer I.\nMajor brands are trustworthy.\n\nMuch more trustworthy than pile of crusty\nyou've got there, and methods? \n\nNumber one, hook them all up at the same \ntime to the same source and same return \npoints. Observe readings for variation \nover time. Put data in order and report.", "upvoteCount": 0, "author": { "@type": "Person", "@id": "https://www.edaboard.com/members/dick_freebird.159097/", "name": "dick_freebird", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/members/dick_freebird.159097/" } }, { "@type": "Answer", "datePublished": "2024-11-22T17:52:13+00:00", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/posts/1784394/", "text": "I have an old HP3748A 6 digit multimeter if I ever need accuracy, precision, A handheld Fluke and a couple other DMMs and an old analog Simpon meter good for 200 mV FSD and collecting dust. But I like my Chinese 65W digital power supply with 3 displays V, A, W that can measure external V with 4 digits and CC digital tuning, so I can charge any battery I use and compute ESR, kF easily.", "upvoteCount": 0, "author": { "@type": "Person", "@id": "https://www.edaboard.com/members/d-a-tony-stewart.134022/", "name": "D.A.(Tony)Stewart", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com/members/d-a-tony-stewart.134022/" } } ] }, "publisher": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "Forum for Electronics", "description": "International Electronics Discussion Forum: EDA software, circuits, schematics, books, theory, papers, asic, pld, 8051, DSP, Network, RF, Analog Design, PCB, Service Manuals", "url": "https://www.edaboard.com" } } </script> <script> $(function(){ var notice = $('.xb-welcome-notice'); if(notice.length){ var cookie = XF.Cookie.get('hide_welcome_notice'); if(!cookie){ XF.Cookie.set('hide_welcome_notice', Date.now()); notice.show(); } else if ((Date.now() - cookie) > 8.64e+7){ XF.Cookie.set('hide_welcome_notice', Date.now()); notice.show(); } else { notice.hide(); } } }); </script> </div> </body> </html>

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