Machine translation in wesnoth using gplv3 apertium software

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</div> </div> <div id="p681979" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile681979"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=185535&sr=posts&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">133</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> July 3rd, 2019, 1:05 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content681979"> <h3 class="first"> <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681979&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681979">Machine translation in wesnoth using gplv3 apertium software</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=681979&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681979&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681979" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-06-04T12:55:09+00:00">June 4th, 2023, 12:55 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">I want to introduce another set of tools that can provide alternative Machine Translation (MT) services based on <a href="https://apertium.org" class="postlink">apertium</a>.<br> <br> First this is a gplv3 tool which can be installed locally and for which you're getting all the code. As a practical example, you are getting all the rules and dictionaries used during MT and you're free to edit them! Second the project is an spin-off of an academic work with the explicit target of focusing on less widely spread languages. Finally, this is a multi-language project that doesn't revolve around US English.<br> <br> People involved in translation have noticed the improvement of MT in the recent past. Some wesnoth translation teams list using DeepL, google-translate and other MT tools as part of their current process. It gives good results as:<br> <ul><li>they translate from wesnoth original US English which is the best supported language</li></ul> <ul><li>they often translate into other widely used languages</li></ul> <ul><li>they do a human proof-reading of the MT result with manual edits when required</li></ul> <ul><li>with experience, they can avoid translatable strings that are badly translated by MT (races, unit names...)</li></ul> So, how can that apertium be useful for wesnoth translation? Use of apertium could help wesnoth translation with:<br> <ul><li>MT from different full translations in alternative widely used western languages</li></ul> <ul><li>MT to western languages with less speakers (based on language proximity)</li></ul> <ul><li>less need of human proof-reading as MT is done on similar languages</li></ul> <ul><li>possibility to improve MT rules and dictionary based on gplv3 license</li></ul> Thanks to apertium multi-language design, we can spread the contagion to other languages with less speakers. For example, from <code class="inline-code">cs</code> to <code class="inline-code">sk</code>, from <code class="inline-code">de</code> to <code class="inline-code">da</code>, from <code class="inline-code">ru</code> to <code class="inline-code">uk</code>. With no falling back to English. The theory is that MT could do a better job at translation between two languages that are close than from US English. That could reduce the need of the final human check that is difficult to get in languages with less speakers (see <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=55600" class="postlink">my failed attempt</a> at getting translation review).<br> <br> The last problem with MT is that most are web-based and require copy-paste of the translatable strings one-by-one. That is another benefit of using apertium, as the local install links with <a href="http://pology.nedohodnik.net/" class="postlink">pology</a> that can apply different processes on po files -- used in wesnoth -- as feeding apertium.<br> <br> A full po file MT translation using pology/apertium is basically looking like: <div class="codebox"><p>Code: <a href="#" onclick="selectCode(this); return false;">Select all</a></p><pre><code>pomtrans apertium -s ita -t srd -d /usr/local/share/apertium/apertium-sr-ita -p srd.:it. po/wesnoth-units/srd.po </code></pre></div> <strong class="text-strong">[edit]</strong> Removed a link to a post on wesnoth forum. It was a link on <span style="text-decoration:underline"><code>some teams list DeepL, ...</code></span> and not on <span style="text-decoration:underline"><code>they translate from ...</code></span>.<strong class="text-strong">[/edit]</strong></div> <div class="notice"> Last edited by <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a> on June 17th, 2023, 7:47 am, edited 3 times in total. </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p681980" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile681980"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=185535&sr=posts&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">133</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> July 3rd, 2019, 1:05 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content681980"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681980&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681980">Re: Machine translation in wesnoth using gplv3 apertium software</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=681980&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681980&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681980" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-06-04T12:58:31+00:00">June 4th, 2023, 12:58 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">When discussing apertium MT in wesnoth, I will work based on the <span style="text-decoration:underline">translation data for 1.14</span> and will apply any MT to the strings from wesnoth in that version.<br> <br> The reason is twofold:<br> - as the MT translation will not be reviewed by a native speaker most probably, I would like that the people that are interested in testing the results from MT are taking an action (like downloading the add-on containing the core 1.14) to use them in full knowledge of the limitations.<br> - as respect for the work of translators in these languages, I want to give them a head start so their translations are appreciated in their own right.<br> <br> There are different factors that can impact the usefulness of apertium MT is wesnoth: <ul><li>the maturity of the translation between a pair of languages. The apertium project is maintaining different levels of <a href="https://wiki.apertium.org/wiki/List_of_language_pairs" class="postlink">state of progress</a> (trunk, staging, nursery, incubator) and each pair of languages is associated with one of these levels. The result from translation between 2 languages in trunk will be better than 2 languages in nursery. Most pairs in incubator have been last updated long ago and have sometimes few commits. The activity around apertium seems to have taken a hit around year 2021.</li></ul> <ul><li>one of the two languages from the pair needs to be actively translated for BfW version 1.14. Beside English, wesnoth 1.14 is roughly available fully translated in different European languages(*): <code class="inline-code">cs</code>, <code class="inline-code">de</code>, <code class="inline-code">fr</code>, <code class="inline-code">it</code>, <code class="inline-code">sp</code>, <code class="inline-code">ru</code>.</li></ul> <ul><li>in the other language of the pair, better to have some translation available for the domains that contain the strings for generic game information (#wesnoth, #wesnoth-units, #wesnoth-lib...).</li> </ul> <br> <br> As I said before, I will focus on pairs of languages that belong to the same (or close) linguistic family. If I use wikipedia as <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages" class="postlink">reference</a> for European languages, the family tree looks like: <div style="margin:1.3em 0"><div><input type="button" value="▸" title="Expand section" style="font-weight:bold;font-size:1em;width:2em;margin:0;padding:0" onclick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = ''; this.title = 'Collapse section'; this.value = '▾'; this.innerText = ''; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = 'none'; this.title = 'Expand section'; this.value = '▸'; this.innerText = ''; }"> <b>Indo-European linguistic families</b></div><div style="margin:2em;margin-top:5px;display:none"> European languages available for translation: <code class="inline-code">af bg ca da el et fi ga gd gl he hr hu is la lt lv mk nl nb_NO pl pt ro sk sl sr sv uk</code> <div class="inline-attachment"> <dl class="thumbnail"> <dt><a href="./../download/file.php?id=95325&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870&mode=view"><img src="./../download/file.php?id=95325&t=1&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="postimage" alt="IndoEuropeanTree.png" title="IndoEuropeanTree.png (247.79 KiB) Viewed 9512 times" /></a></dt> </dl> </div></div></div> The European languages are grouped as follow: <div style="margin:1.3em 0"><div><input type="button" value="▸" title="Expand section" style="font-weight:bold;font-size:1em;width:2em;margin:0;padding:0" onclick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = ''; this.title = 'Collapse section'; this.value = '▾'; this.innerText = ''; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = 'none'; this.title = 'Expand section'; this.value = '▸'; this.innerText = ''; }"> <b>wesnoth linguistic groups ("full" translation shown in bold)</b></div><div style="margin:2em;margin-top:5px;display:none"> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Celtic insular</span>: Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Breton, Welsh<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Romance</span>: Sardinian, Romanian<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Italo-Dalmatian</span>: Corsican, <strong class="text-strong">Italian</strong><br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Iberian</span>: <strong class="text-strong">Spanish</strong>, Galician, Portugese<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Gallic</span>: Arpitan, <strong class="text-strong">French</strong>, Catalan, Occitan<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Germanic</span>: Icelandic, Norwegian, Danish, Swedish<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Central-Upper German</span>: <strong class="text-strong">German</strong>, Luxembourgish<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Low Franconian</span>: Dutch, Afrikaans<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Anglo-Frisian</span>: <em class="text-italics">English</em>, Scots<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Balto-Slavic</span>: Latvian, Lithuanian<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">East Slavic</span>: <strong class="text-strong">Russian</strong>, Ukrainian<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">West Slavic</span>: Polish, <strong class="text-strong">Czech</strong>, Slovak<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">South Slavic</span>: Slovene, Croatian, Serbian<br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">Eastern South Slavic</span>: Bulgarian, Macedonian<br> <em class="text-italics">Uralic</em>: Hungarian, Finnish, Estonian<br> <em class="text-italics">Standalone</em>: Albanian, Armenian, Greek, Basque </div></div> So taking the apertium language pairs into account, we have the following path for spreading translation for wesnoth: <div style="margin:1.3em 0"><div><input type="button" value="▸" title="Expand section" style="font-weight:bold;font-size:1em;width:2em;margin:0;padding:0" onclick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = ''; this.title = 'Collapse section'; this.value = '▾'; this.innerText = ''; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = 'none'; this.title = 'Expand section'; this.value = '▸'; this.innerText = ''; }"> <b>apertium translation paths</b></div><div style="margin:2em;margin-top:5px;display:none"> <br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">### Direct paths</span><br> <code>spa - cat (trunk)<br> - arg (Aragonese)<br> - mlt (Maltese) (incubator)<br> (surprisingly no pair spa - por)<br> <br> fra - cat (trunk)<br> - oci (trunk)<br> - frp (Arpitan)<br> - por (staging)<br> - ron (Romanian) (incubator)<br> <br> ces - pol (staging)<br> - slk (incubator)<br> <br> ita - srd (trunk)<br> - cos (Corsican) (incubator)<br> - slv (Slovenian) (incubator)<br> <br> rus - ukr (trunk)<br> - kaz (trunk)<br> - tat (nursery)<br> - hbs (Serbo-Croatian) (nursery)<br> - fin (incubator)<br> <br> tur - uzb (nursery 2021)<br> - kir (nursery 2021)<br> - aze (nursery 2021)<br> - uig (incubator)<br> - tuk<br> <br> eng - cym (Welsh) (trunk)<br> - gle (Irish) (incubator)<br> - sco (incubator)<br> <br> deu - nld (incubator)<br> - dan (incubator)<br> - swe (incubator)<br> - ltz (incubator)<br> </code><br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">### 2-step paths</span><br> <em class="text-italics">(this lists the output of the direct path that can be used to extend to a third language)</em><br> <code>slv - hbs<br> <br> pol - ukr<br> - lvs<br> - lt<br> <br> swe - fin<br> - nor<br> - isl<br> <br> cat - por (trunk)<br> bul - mkd (Macedonian)<br> bre - cym (incubator)<br> ga (Irish) - gd (Scottish Gaelic) (nursery)<br> nld - afr<br> </code><br> <span style="text-decoration:underline">## No path</span><br> <code>ar eo eu id he ko mr my tl vi</code> </div></div> Finally taking into account the apertium state of progress, we end up in two kinds of pairs that could be useful: <ul><li><span style="text-decoration:underline">translation in language currently not available in wesnoth:</span><br> <strong class="text-strong">French</strong> - Arpitan ; <strong class="text-strong">French</strong> - Occitan ; <strong class="text-strong">Italian</strong> - Sardinian ; <strong class="text-strong">Russian</strong> - Kazakh ; <strong class="text-strong">English</strong> - Welsh ; <strong class="text-strong">Spanish</strong> - Aragonese<br> <br> As the target language is not present in wesnoth, all wesnoth-specific words will end up not translated (ie identical to string in the source language), and either the word must be close enough in the target language or the target audience needs to be bilingual.<br> The second problem is that the language is not defined in wesnoth, so even if the translation is generated, it can't be selected in the language selection dialog.</li> </ul> <ul><li><span style="text-decoration:underline">translation in languages currently present in wesnoth:</span><br> <em class="text-italics">(in parenthesis, translation percentage for mainline core domains in BfW 1.14)</em><br> <strong class="text-strong">French/Spanish</strong> - Catalan (98.98%) ; <strong class="text-strong">Czech</strong> - Polish (93.74%) ; <strong class="text-strong">Russian</strong> - Ukrainian (93.07%) ; <strong class="text-strong">French</strong> - Portuguese (87.66%)</li> </ul> --<br> (*) the same thinking can be applied from <code class="inline-code">tr</code> to various Central Asia languages.</div> <div class="notice"> Last edited by <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a> on September 10th, 2023, 11:48 pm, edited 10 times in total. </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p681994" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile681994"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=122699&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=122699_1532101445.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=122699&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">octalot</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">General Code Maintainer</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=122699&sr=posts&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">816</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> July 17th, 2010, 7:40 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Austria</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content681994"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681994&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681994">Re: Machine translation in wesnoth using gplv3 apertium software</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=681994&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681994&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681994" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=122699&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">octalot</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-06-05T10:53:24+00:00">June 5th, 2023, 10:53 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote cite="./../viewtopic.php?p=681979&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681979"><div><cite><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">demario</a> wrote: <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681979&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681979" data-post-id="681979" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a><span class="responsive-hide">June 4th, 2023, 12:55 pm</span></cite> Some wesnoth translation teams <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=673074#p673074" class="postlink">list</a> using DeepL, google-translate and other MT tools as part of their current process. It gives good results as:<br> <ul><li>they translate from wesnoth original US English which is the best supported language</li></ul> <ul><li>they often translate into other widely used languages</li></ul> <ul><li>they do a human proof-reading of the MT result with manual edits when required</li></ul> <ul><li>with experience, they can avoid translatable strings that are badly translated by MT (races, unit names...)</li></ul> </div></blockquote> I get a different interpretation from the post that you've linked to. I think Michal- is doing a human translation, and then sometimes using MT as a sanity-check to compare to, rather than using the MT as the actual translation.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p681996" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile681996"> <dt class="has-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=121854_1351160483.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" style="color: #16a589;" class="username-coloured">Lord-Knightmare</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Discord Moderator</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=121854&sr=posts&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">2448</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> May 24th, 2010, 5:26 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Somewhere in the depths of Irdya, gathering my army to eventually destroy the known world.</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Lord-Knightmare"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Lord-Knightmare</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://tahsinjahinkhalid.github.io/" title="Website" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_website-icon">Website</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content681996"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681996&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681996">Re: Machine translation in wesnoth using gplv3 apertium software</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=681996&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681996&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681996" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=121854&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" style="color: #16a589;" class="username-coloured">Lord-Knightmare</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-06-05T11:10:26+00:00">June 5th, 2023, 11:10 am</time> </p> <div class="content">I wanted to use this to help my translation effort on the game to BN, but I see that it's not in the support languages list so I will use one where it's supported (shown as an option at least)</div> <div id="sig681996" class="signature"><span style="font-size:85%;line-height:116%">Creator of "<a href="http://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=30087" class="postlink">War of Legends</a>"<br> Creator of the <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=54212" class="postlink">Isle of Mists</a> survival scenario.<br> Maintainer of <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23656" class="postlink">Forward They Cried</a><br> <a href="http://wiki.wesnoth.org/User:Knyghtmare" class="postlink">User:Knyghtmare</a> | <a href="https://medium.com/@khalidtahsinjahin" class="postlink">My Medium</a></span></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p682201" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile682201"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=185535&sr=posts&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">133</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> July 3rd, 2019, 1:05 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content682201"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=682201&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p682201">Re: Machine translation in wesnoth using gplv3 apertium software</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=682201&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=682201&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p682201" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-06-17T02:39:16+00:00">June 17th, 2023, 2:39 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote cite="./../viewtopic.php?p=681980&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681980"><div><cite>demario wrote: <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681980&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681980" data-post-id="681980" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a></cite> we end up in two kinds of pairs that could be useful: <ul><li><span style="text-decoration:underline">translation in language currently not available in wesnoth:</span><br> <strong class="text-strong">Italian</strong> - Sardinian ; ...</li> </ul> </div></blockquote> So I have put up an experimental Sardinian translation of wesnoth in the core 1.14 ("Bienvenue"). This is Machine Translated using the platform <a href="https://www.apertium.org" class="postlink">apertium</a> based on the text in Italian. The four campaigns in "<code>Bienvenue à Wesnoth ! (Welcome to Wesnoth)</code>" are also available in that language if you download the add-on and load the core "Bienvenue (1.14)". The translation has <strong class="text-strong">not</strong> been reviewed.<br> You <span style="text-decoration:underline">will have to</span> select the <code class="inline-code">Burmese (mranmabhasa)</code> language to see Sardinian translation instead when you start BfW with the option <code class="inline-code">--all-translations</code> (or edit the file <code class="inline-code">data/languages/my_MM.cfg</code> to boost the <code>percent=0</code> over 80 ).<br> <br> I put in attachment the BfW 1.14 <code class="inline-code">#wesnoth-help</code> domain (all MTed strings; no fuzzy, no 'mtrans' marker) in Sardinian for those who want to check it out without the boilerplate. <blockquote cite="./../viewtopic.php?p=681980&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681980"><div><cite>demario wrote: <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681980&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681980" data-post-id="681980" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a></cite> <ul><li><span style="text-decoration:underline">translation in languages currently present in wesnoth:</span><br> <em class="text-italics">(in parenthesis, translation percentage for mainline core domains in BfW 1.14)</em><br> <strong class="text-strong">French/Spanish</strong> - Catalan (98.98%) ; ...</li> </ul> </div></blockquote> I have used apertium to "complete" translation of the <code class="inline-code">#wesnoth-help</code> domain from BfW 1.14 in Catalan (out of personal convenience, I worked from French). I picked this domain as it is somehow less specific to wesnoth and the vanilla apertium <code class="inline-code">fra-cat</code> pair will possibly lead to some positive result. From checking the results, I can see some untranslated words from French (<em class="text-italics">copiage</em>, <em class="text-italics">collage</em>...) that I'll need to fix later, but it still looks like a foreign language to me lol.<br> You can check it out with the Catalan translation in attachment (42 MTed strings are identified as fuzzy, as original 'mtrans' doesn't show up).</div> <dl class="attachbox"> <dt> Attachments </dt> <dd> <dl class="file"> <dt><img src="./images/upload_icons/zip.gif" alt="" /> <a class="postlink" href="./../download/file.php?id=95339&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">wesnoth-1.14.17.po.wesnoth-help.ca.po.gz</a></dt> <dd><em>BfW 1.14 wesnoth-help m-translated in Catalan (from French)</em></dd> <dd>(110.11 KiB) Downloaded 138 times</dd> </dl> </dd> <dd> <dl class="file"> <dt><img src="./images/upload_icons/zip.gif" alt="" /> <a class="postlink" href="./../download/file.php?id=95337&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">wesnoth-1.14.17.po.wesnoth-help.srd.po.gz</a></dt> <dd><em>BfW 1.14 wesnoth-help m-translated in Sardinian</em></dd> <dd>(101.57 KiB) Downloaded 133 times</dd> </dl> </dd> </dl> <div class="notice"> Last edited by <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=185535&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">demario</a> on June 17th, 2023, 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total. </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p682203" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile682203"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223484&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">Michal-</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=223484&sr=posts&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">5</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> January 18th, 2021, 10:16 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Czechia</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content682203"> <h3 > <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=682203&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p682203">Re: Machine translation in wesnoth using gplv3 apertium software</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&p=682203&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../viewtopic.php?p=682203&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p682203" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=223484&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="username">Michal-</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-06-17T05:30:07+00:00">June 17th, 2023, 5:30 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote cite="./../viewtopic.php?p=681994&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681994"><div><cite><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=122699&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870">octalot</a> wrote: <a href="./../viewtopic.php?p=681994&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870#p681994" data-post-id="681994" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a><span class="responsive-hide">June 5th, 2023, 10:53 am</span></cite> I get a different interpretation from the post that you've linked to. I think Michal- is doing a human translation, and then sometimes using MT as a sanity-check to compare to, rather than using the MT as the actual translation. </div></blockquote> You are right.<br> <br> For example I discovered many pop culture links in DiD achievements, whose was previously unknown for me and to translate them exactly I had to search and see movies in Czech. Using MT first in this case could probably hide some of them.<br> <br> But I have tried different approach recently - <a href="https://github.com/hrubymar10/wesnoth-cs/commit/92341ef0aba86391637a69408084540506304bd2" class="postlink">automaticaly convert untranslated messages to fuzzies</a> using msgattrib, <a href="https://github.com/OzzyCzech/potrans" class="postlink">potrans</a> (DeepL), msgmerge and then <a href="https://github.com/hrubymar10/wesnoth-cs/commit/70df9c5cf272687df5576bae044560ad4c97ea3e" class="postlink">translate these DeepL fuzzies</a> much quicker, which is very tempting.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="action-bar bar-bottom"> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=reply&t=56977&sid=7aaaaeed6afe15278215929e1ec51870" class="button" title="Post a reply"> <span>Post Reply</span> 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