1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team

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Post your work and collaborate in this forum.<br /></div> <p> <strong>Moderator:</strong> <a style="color:#008000;" href="./memberlist.php?mode=group&g=6643&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">Forum Moderators</a> </p> <div class="action-bar bar-top"> <a href="./posting.php?mode=reply&t=58857&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="button" title="Post a reply"> <span>Post Reply</span> <i class="icon fa-reply fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <div class="search-box" role="search"> <form method="get" id="topic-search" action="./search.php?sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc"> <fieldset> <input class="inputbox search tiny" type="search" name="keywords" id="search_keywords" size="20" placeholder="Search this topic…" /> <button class="button button-search" type="submit" title="Search"> <i class="icon fa-search fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Search</span> </button> <a href="./search.php?sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="button button-search-end" 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aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Next</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <form method="post" action="./viewtopic.php?t=58857&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" data-ajax="vote_poll" data-refresh="true" class="topic_poll"> <div class="panel"> <div class="inner"> <div class="content"> <h2 class="poll-title">Adding the best and most important balance change or not (Ladder variation of Footpad)</h2> <p class="author"></p> <fieldset class="polls"> <dl class="" data-alt-text="You voted for this option" data-poll-option-id="1"> <dt>everywhere (replacement): 5x2 melee blade (change it's melee attack to blade, but + 1 dmg), new sprits would be needed</dt> <dd class="resultbar"><div class="pollbar2" style="width:44%;">8</div></dd> <dd class="poll_option_percent">29%</dd> </dl> <dl class="" data-alt-text="You voted for this option" data-poll-option-id="2"> <dt>only core eras (halve replacement): 5x2 melee blade (change it's melee attack to blade, but + 1 dmg), new sprits would be needed</dt> <dd class="resultbar"><div class="pollbar1" style="width:11%;">2</div></dd> <dd class="poll_option_percent">7%</dd> </dl> <dl class=" most-votes" data-alt-text="You voted for this option" data-poll-option-id="3"> <dt>no touching: 4x2 melee impact (keeping it as it was always in core eras and campaign)</dt> <dd class="resultbar"><div class="pollbar4" style="width:100%;">18</div></dd> <dd class="poll_option_percent">64%</dd> </dl> <dl class="poll_total_votes"> <dt> </dt> <dd class="resultbar">Total votes: <span class="poll_total_vote_cnt">28</span></dd> </dl> </fieldset> <div class="vote-submitted hidden">Your vote has been cast.</div> </div> </div> </div> </form> <hr /> <div id="p694676" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694676"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=173246_1620484751.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=173246&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">94</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> December 20th, 2018, 1:30 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Different Dimension</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Skyend"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Skyend</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a 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<strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-12T16:50:59+00:00">November 12th, 2024, 4:50 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">This is the official forum thread for balance testing of<strong class="text-strong"> 1.20 Core Eras</strong> and <strong class="text-strong">Units</strong>.<br> <br> We will discuss our balance change ideas internally and release updated versions of the add-on for you to test and provide feedback. Please note that these updates are for testing purposes, and the results are not final. We will continue updating as needed, and looking forward for your ideas and testing.<br> <br> In response to some concerns regarding the 1.18 unit balance adjustments, this update uses the 1.16 stats as a foundation for Default Era.<br> We highly value your input as we work on this updated version. Please share your feedback on the following aspects:<br> <ul> <li>Single-player and multiplayer modes (no split, meaning units will remain consistent across modes)</li> <li> Competitive balance for 1v1, 2v2, etc. (aiming for overall faction balance)</li> <li> Enjoyable gameplay and more freedom in leader choices (understanding this may slightly reduce balance in 1v1)</li> <li> Compatibility with UMC (User-Made Content) to avoid breaking mods</li> <li> Respect for lore and unit identity</li> <li> (any other aspect you can think about)</li></ul> <em class="text-italics">Please play with our add-on going forward over Default Era to share the spirit (also since it will be much better than 1.18)</em> ~ SkyEnd<br> <br> Just some Ladder data: <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mOc6-DTGj0p8D17x4oN4XgYHlbYDqVuDSYcrrX1sijc/edit?usp=sharing" class="postlink">https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing</a><br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">Summary Default</strong> <div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px"><div class="quotetitle" style="vertical-align:middle;display:inline-block"><strong>Spoiler:</strong> <input class="button1" style="font-size:0.8em" type="button" value="Show" onclick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; this.innerText = ''; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = 'none'; this.value = 'Show'; this.innerText = ''; }"></div><div class="quotecontent" style="display:none">Changes comparing to the 1.16 Default Era.<br> <br> Drakes<br> - Drake Burner: 30% on shallow water<br> - Drake Fighter: 30% on shallow water<br> <br> Knalgan Alliance<br> - Trapper: +1 melee dmg, -> 5x4 <br> - Footpad: Ladder Version -> change meele into blade + 1 dmg -> 5x2 balde (added as Axepad)<br> - Gryphon: cost to 23 gold (as it is in 1.18) <br> - Dwarvish Guradsman: 6x1 randge (as it is in 1.18 / Ladder) <br> - Dwarvish Thunderer: 16 gold, -1 hp -> 33 hp<br> <br> Loyalists<br> - Bowman: 5x2 melee (as it is in 1.18 / Ladder)<br> - Cavalryman: 17 gold, blade 20% (as it is in 1.18)<br> - Horseman: 23 gold, but -3 hp -> 35 hp<br> <br> Rebels<br> - Elvish Shaman: 3x2 ranged</div></div> <strong class="text-strong">Changelog</strong>:<br> Version 0.0.4<br> - added 1.16 stats, unit files from Classic Era (1.16) and changed the prefix <strong class="text-strong">thanks </strong>to <strong class="text-strong">dwarftough </strong>for that<br> <br> Version 0.1.0<br> - Footpad: Ladder Version -> change meele into blade + 1 dmg -> 5x2 balde (added as Axepad)<br> - Bowman: 5x2 melee (as it is in 1.18 / Ladder)<br> - Dwarvish Guradsman: 6x1 randge (as it is in 1.18 / Ladder)<br> - Drake Burner: 30% on shallow water<br> - Drake Fighter: 30% on shallow water<br> - Gryphon: cost to 23 gold (as it is in 1.18)<br> - Cavalryman: 17 gold, blade 20%<br> - Trapper: +1 melee dmg, -> 5x4 <br> - Dwarvish Thunderer: 16 gold, -1 hp -> 33 hp<br> - Horseman: 23 gold, but -3 hp -> 35 hp<br> - Elvish Shaman: 3x2 ranged</div> <div class="notice"> Last edited by <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a> on November 24th, 2024, 3:38 pm, edited 6 times in total. </div> <div id="sig694676" class="signature"><div style="text-align:center">I became the strongest Wesnoth player in history. <br> <a href="https://wesnoth.gamingladder.info/profile.php?name=SkyEnd" class="postlink">https://wesnoth.gamingladder.info/profi ... ame=SkyEnd</a><br> Now I'll become God irl too.</div></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694679" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694679"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=267692&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=267692_1727177206.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=267692&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">KameRamen</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=267692&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">110</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> November 22nd, 2023, 3:46 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Japan</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694679"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694679&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694679">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694679&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694679&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694679" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=267692&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">KameRamen</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-12T17:56:36+00:00">November 12th, 2024, 5:56 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">First of all, I would like to express my appreciation for this positive endeavor. <strong class="text-strong">And I fully agree with the decision to base the 1.16 stats and support this direction.</strong> I have tried version 0.0.4 for feedback and it is adequate and in very good condition. Many issues have been resolved. Personally, I was very impressed, especially with the changes made in 1.18 to the elves' attacks (which also affected my add-on), which have been reverted to the old state.<br> <br> We all know that the drastic balance changes for 1.18 were very controversial and the issues are still dividing the community to this day. This has had a negative impact not only on the original intention of balancing for players and creators, but also on the conflict between users. I believe that this has never happened before and should be stopped as soon as possible and we should move on to more constructive game development.<br> <br> It is my opinion that the most realistic option is to return to the status quo of 1.16 - a release that is, for the most part, very balanced and continues the legacy of previous developers. Therefore, to reiterate, I view this direction as ideal and completely support this.</div> <div id="sig694679" class="signature"><strong class="text-strong">Kame</strong> means turtle in Japanese. I chose this name because I love turtles and ramen.<br> <span style="font-size:85%;line-height:116%"><strong class="text-strong">Most active add-ons: <a href="https://r.wesnoth.org/t57357" class="postlink">The Bees Journey</a> | <a href="https://r.wesnoth.org/t58445" class="postlink">The Dark Hordes</a> | <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=58803" class="postlink">The Shadow Returns</a></strong></span><br> <span style="font-size:85%;line-height:116%">Abandoned: <a href="https://r.wesnoth.org/t57859" class="postlink">A Starry Forest</a>, <span style="text-decoration:line-through">From the New World</span>, <span style="text-decoration:line-through">A Hero's Fate</span></span></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694680" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694680"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=173246_1620484751.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=173246&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">94</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> December 20th, 2018, 1:30 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Different Dimension</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Skyend"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Skyend</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRBkAZ6LKCPQs0Ol1JzTJrA" title="YouTube" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_youtube-icon">YouTube</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694680"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694680&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694680">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694680&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694680&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694680" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-12T19:11:05+00:00">November 12th, 2024, 7:11 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">Sorry if I raised confusion, we have not yet done anything. <br> Besides me putting the add-on with 1.16 era together with help, changes will be made and not all 1.18 changes will be reverted.<br> <br> Currently this is only 1.16 stats with animation of 1.18. Any new changes will be added to the changelog as usually.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694681" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694681"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=136866&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=136866_1530016694.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=136866&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">ForestDragon</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=136866&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">1846</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> March 6th, 2014, 1:32 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Ukraine</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694681"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694681&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694681">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694681&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694681&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694681" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=136866&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">ForestDragon</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-12T19:38:26+00:00">November 12th, 2024, 7:38 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">Looks promising. I fully support the idea of using 1.16 as a new baseline.<br> <br> 1.18 was far too extreme and controversial of an update compared to the previous 8 stable versions - the most egregious changes being the arcane rework, the elf changes, and the very strange xp changes (like 43/46 for lvl2 orc crossbow/mermaid enchantress respectively, rogue getting increase from 70 to 80, dark sorcerer from 90 to 110, archmage xp to lvl4 getting reduced from 220 to 150, etc.)<br> <br> 1.16 stats make for a much more reliable baseline to work on top of for improving the game's balance.</div> <div id="sig694681" class="signature">My active add-ons: <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=53932" class="postlink">The Great Steppe Era</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=44979" class="postlink">XP Bank</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=47723&p=622127#p622127" class="postlink">Alliances Mod</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=669163#p669163" class="postlink">Pestilence</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=55714" class="postlink">GSE+EoMa</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=671413" class="postlink">Ogre Crusaders</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=680768" class="postlink">Battle Royale</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=57445" class="postlink">EoMaifier</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=57496" class="postlink">Steppeifier</a>,<a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?p=687440" class="postlink">Hardcoreifier</a><br> My inactive add-ons (1.12): Tale of Alan, The Golden Age<br> Co-creator of <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&p=611658#p611658" class="postlink">Era of Magic</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694687" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694687"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=254754&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=254754_1668871822.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=254754&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Roge_Tebnelok</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=254754&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">48</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> November 19th, 2022, 3:12 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Янтарный Берег (Amber Coast/Bernsteinen Seeufer/Ravgul Strand-kant/Meripihka Rannan)/Elensefar</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694687"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694687&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694687">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694687&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694687&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694687" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=254754&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Roge_Tebnelok</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T06:22:01+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 6:22 am</time> </p> <div class="content">Fully support 1.16 baseline as well, for reasons explained by others. The addon in particular will also allow new players, who joined after 1.18 came out, to learn what the gameplay was like before, see and feel the differences, and everyone to express what they really think about stats after a fresh comparison and prepare themselves to the future stats and potentially affect them by bringing them up to balance team's attention with clearer picture in mind without need of installing another version, .</div> <div id="sig694687" class="signature"><em class="text-italics">Omniscience and omnipotence are one and the same.</em></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694688" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694688"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=173246_1620484751.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=173246&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">94</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> December 20th, 2018, 1:30 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Different Dimension</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Skyend"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Skyend</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRBkAZ6LKCPQs0Ol1JzTJrA" title="YouTube" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_youtube-icon">YouTube</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694688"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694688&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694688">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694688&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694688&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694688" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T07:02:47+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 7:02 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote cite="./viewtopic.php?p=694687&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694687"><div><cite><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=254754&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">Roge_Tebnelok</a> wrote: <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694687&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694687" data-post-id="694687" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a><span class="responsive-hide">November 13th, 2024, 6:22 am</span></cite> Fully support 1.16 baseline as well, for reasons explained by others. The addon in particular will also allow new players, who joined after 1.18 came out, to learn what the gameplay was like before, see and feel the differences, and everyone to express what they really think about stats after a fresh comparison and prepare themselves to the future stats and potentially affect them by bringing them up to balance team's attention with clearer picture in mind without need of installing another version, . </div></blockquote> That's a good point. <img class="smilies" src="./images/smilies/icon_eng.gif" width="26" height="19" alt=":eng:" title="Lecture"></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694693" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694693"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=173246_1620484751.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=173246&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">94</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> December 20th, 2018, 1:30 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Different Dimension</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Skyend"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Skyend</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRBkAZ6LKCPQs0Ol1JzTJrA" title="YouTube" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_youtube-icon">YouTube</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694693"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694693&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694693">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694693&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694693&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694693" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T13:43:29+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 1:43 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">For why I ask for <strong class="text-strong">adding the best and most important balance change or not (Ladder variation of Footpad)</strong><br> <br> This a the key element for balancing default era imho.<br> I know it's not a small change to what non ladder player are used to. (sprite change)<br> But it <strong class="text-strong">still keeps</strong> it's <strong class="text-strong">ranged impact</strong> attack.<br> <br> The reason is that KA is a lot stronger than UD in 1v1.<br> Although it's worse against the other factions.<br> <br> Having this change helps with every balance here.<br> <br> KA >> UD (they will still be stronger than UD, but it's a lot more balanced)<br> other faction, beside Rebels > KA<br> <br> Vs Rebels, pads aren't too much used there, because of strong Elvish Fighter dealing a huge dmg bonus -> other units as DF or Ulf do see more play.<br> <br> Overall this is a great <strong class="text-strong">buff </strong>to <strong class="text-strong">Knalgan Aliance</strong>.<br> <br> <em class="text-italics">When it was introduced in ladder I was hyped and loved the change ever since. It's a lot more fun to play with footpad, there.</em><br> <br> <em class="text-italics">There was a game on ladder where I though that they reverted them back to default, and therefore I didn't even recruited them at all, that's how much worse default pads feel in most match-ups</em>. ~SkyEnd<br> <br> #makefootpadandknalgangreat</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694694" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694694"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=108426_1259472741.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Mirion147</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=108426&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">999</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694694"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694694&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694694">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694694&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694694&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694694" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Mirion147</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T15:11:14+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 3:11 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">This change may go a long way for balance but it causes some other problems. <br> <br> The lore of the poor folk taking up clubs and becoming proficient enough to be a level 1 unit while not being of means to have any real metalwork done (sword/dagger) until they are able to finally have access to a mace at level 2.<br> <br> While this would undoubtedly change the balance of campaigns like Liberty, and other UMC works, I'm not against changes specifically for this reason. That being said, it is a note that should be added to a list even if it's not a deal breaker for me. <br> <br> Then there's the issue of RIPLIB. Ruffian (impact), Footpad (blade), Outlaw (impact), Fugitive (impact).<br> Ruffian into footpad works because of thug, similar to spearman into Swordsman. but Swordsman doesn't go back into halberdier. Footpad with blade going into Outlaw with impact doesn't work with the whole unit line. <br> <br> So my question is, what makes this better against other factions? What alternatives work, while less effectively from a balance perspective, still fit with lore and level sequencing?<br> <br> If all that is really happening is that undead are getting destroyed, why not just reduce damage of the footpad, or even make it a higher damage 1 strike attack?<br> <br> [EDIT]<br> <br> If there is a need for a non impact damage type from footpad, why not add pierce as a secondary attack type to the footpad's melee attack?</div> <div id="sig694694" class="signature">Take a look at the <a href="http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26153" class="postlink">Era of the Future!</a><br> Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!<br> ^This is old news lol but I don't care^<br> New news -> <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53176" class="postlink"> Up the River Bork Campaign!</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694695" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694695"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=173246_1620484751.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=173246&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">94</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> December 20th, 2018, 1:30 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Different Dimension</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Skyend"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Skyend</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRBkAZ6LKCPQs0Ol1JzTJrA" title="YouTube" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_youtube-icon">YouTube</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694695"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694695&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694695">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694695&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694695&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694695" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T15:27:07+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 3:27 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">I wouldn't push that hard for it if there where an alternative.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694699" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694699"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139980&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=139980_1704975584.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139980&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Mechanical</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=139980&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">373</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> June 29th, 2015, 4:11 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Russia</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694699"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139980&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Mechanical</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T20:29:38+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 8:29 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">I support changing Footpad's damage type, as this change has been thoroughly tested in high level play over the years. In my opinion, the optimal solution is to make a separate unit and keep the old Footpad in the core for not to harm existing content in the mainline and addons. <br> <br> I don't see any problems with this solution, and I will now explain why. <br> <br> 1. I see no problems with the artwork, as I can change a club to an axe at all unit levels on all sprites, including animations. It's not a difficult task for me that won't take more than a week of real time. <br> <br> 2. I don't see a problem with RIPLIB since: <br> - Ruffian still has a direct improvement in the form of Thug; <br> - Even now, Footpad contains RIPLIB relative to Ruffian because it has negative physical resistances. <br> - From this, it is obvious that Footpad is a side branch that can have any changes towards level zero. <br> <br> 3. I don't see a lore problem, since: <br> - The sprite and portrait of the current Footpad already contains metal elements;<br> - It's very easy for a medieval peasant to get an axe, literally every house has one; <br> - Other level 1 bandits also have metal weapons (notably the Thief and Poacher have a dagger)<br> <br> 4. I also like it when balance changes get some sort of lore customization, an entourage. To achieve this effect, we could, for example, name the new Footpad “Knalgan Footpad” and add a line to the description along the lines of “since Footpads play an extremely important role in the Alliance, they are armed with light axes, which are plentiful in the dwarven army.”. This is just a rough example, but I think we should do something like this, and then the damage change would look very organic and thematically driven.</div> <div id="sig694699" class="signature"><a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=43222l" class="postlink">My art thread</a><br> If you want to communicate, find me in discord: orcsteve<br> Join the <a href="https://discord.gg/K9N56hqGTm" class="postlink">Wesnoth Modders Guild</a> community!</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694700" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694700"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=108426_1259472741.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Mirion147</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=108426&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">999</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694700"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694700&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694700">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694700&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694700&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694700" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Mirion147</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T21:24:38+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 9:24 pm</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote cite="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699"><div><cite><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139980&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">Mechanical</a> wrote: <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699" data-post-id="694699" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a><span class="responsive-hide">November 13th, 2024, 8:29 pm</span></cite> I support changing Footpad's damage type, as this change has been thoroughly tested in high level play over the years. In my opinion, the optimal solution is to make a separate unit and keep the old Footpad in the core for not to harm existing content in the mainline and addons. </div></blockquote> This begins the separation of sp and mp. A dangerous and poorly chosen road, this would confuse new players greatly because if new content is added to mainline it would have players using the same unit but with different uses and attack values. Let alone just switching to mp and dealing with different units. <br> <blockquote cite="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699"><div><cite><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139980&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">Mechanical</a> wrote: <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699" data-post-id="694699" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a><span class="responsive-hide">November 13th, 2024, 8:29 pm</span></cite> I don't see any problems with this solution, and I will now explain why. <br> <br> 1. I see no problems with the artwork, as I can change a club to an axe at all unit levels on all sprites, including animations. It's not a difficult task for me that won't take more than a week of real time. </div></blockquote> I guess if you'd rather focus on this instead of the countless other issues that exist regarding artwork in mainline, that's fine. It's your choice. <br> <blockquote cite="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699"><div><cite><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139980&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">Mechanical</a> wrote: <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699" data-post-id="694699" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a><span class="responsive-hide">November 13th, 2024, 8:29 pm</span></cite> 2. I don't see a problem with RIPLIB since: <br> - Ruffian still has a direct improvement in the form of Thug; <br> - Even now, Footpad contains RIPLIB relative to Ruffian because it has negative physical resistances. <br> - From this, it is obvious that Footpad is a side branch that can have any changes towards level zero. </div></blockquote> None of this counters the actual RIPLIB issue described. <br> <blockquote cite="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699"><div><cite><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139980&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">Mechanical</a> wrote: <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699" data-post-id="694699" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a><span class="responsive-hide">November 13th, 2024, 8:29 pm</span></cite> 3. I don't see a lore problem, since: <br> - The sprite and portrait of the current Footpad already contains metal elements;<br> - It's very easy for a medieval peasant to get an axe, literally every house has one; <br> - Other level 1 bandits also have metal weapons (notably the Thief and Poacher have a dagger) </div></blockquote> Sticking a metal knob on the end of a stick and putting a nail through is a very different thing than crafting a sword. How do you plan on introducing the axe to the portrait?<br> Thief and poachers are different in lore. Thieves have obviously stolen their weapons, while poachers have knives already, to gut the animals they poach.<br> I admit though that I did not consider an axe, so having an axe could make more sense, but I would not assume that all houses have one.</div> <div id="sig694700" class="signature">Take a look at the <a href="http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26153" class="postlink">Era of the Future!</a><br> Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!<br> ^This is old news lol but I don't care^<br> New news -> <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53176" class="postlink"> Up the River Bork Campaign!</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694701" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694701"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=173246_1620484751.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=173246&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">94</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> December 20th, 2018, 1:30 am</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Different Dimension</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact Skyend"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact Skyend</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRBkAZ6LKCPQs0Ol1JzTJrA" title="YouTube" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_youtube-icon">YouTube</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694701"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694701&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694701">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694701&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694701&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694701" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=173246&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Skyend</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T22:11:36+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 10:11 pm</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote cite="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699"><div><cite><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=139980&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">Mechanical</a> wrote: <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694699&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694699" data-post-id="694699" onclick="if(document.getElementById(hash.substr(1)))href=hash">↑</a><span class="responsive-hide">November 13th, 2024, 8:29 pm</span></cite> I support changing Footpad's damage type, as this change has been thoroughly tested in high level play over the years. In my opinion, the optimal solution is to make a separate unit and keep the old Footpad in the core for not to harm existing content in the mainline and addons. </div></blockquote> Yeah, that's probably the best.<br> <br> <br> @Mirion147<br> For why shall it be blade over pierce?<br> Unlike pierce there aren't many units with negative blade resistance or those had bad impact resistance anyway and vice versa.<br> This being said the goal is it to deal an equal amount of dmg in any match-up, to not break them.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694703" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694703"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=108426_1259472741.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Mirion147</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=108426&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">999</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> February 14th, 2008, 12:52 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694703"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694703&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694703">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694703&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694703&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694703" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=108426&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="username">Mirion147</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-13T22:39:05+00:00">November 13th, 2024, 10:39 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">Using both impact and pierce in the same attack means that the only thing changing is the damage stat, you would need no other art, there would be no issue with riplib, and there would be no lore problems. That's why I suggested it.<br> <br> Blade in this situation is a balance stat that does not hold true to the lore, or the current setup of the unit. I find it unreasonable that a faction with only 2 impact attack units needs to trade one of the the 3 impact attacks in for a blade attack. This would give KA 7 blade units vs 2 impact units, 1 of which is ranged and 1 of which is melee. <br> <br> I suggested reducing the damage of DF hammer attack and increasing DF axe attack. You said this would kill rebels, yet you want to give footpad blade with a 1 damage buff. The only unit that has resists is wose which has 40% impact resist. So 4x2 club attack does 2x2 damage, instead of (with blade attack) 5x2 damage. That's a 6 damage buff, vs what i suggested of a 3 damage buff. That is also a larger buff than adding pierce to the footpad damage type as the only negative resist to pierce is the scout, which is only -20% vs the 40% difference of the wose.</div> <div id="sig694703" class="signature">Take a look at the <a href="http://www.wesnoth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=26153" class="postlink">Era of the Future!</a><br> Current factions: The Welkin, The Brungar, and The Nordhris!<br> ^This is old news lol but I don't care^<br> New news -> <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=53176" class="postlink"> Up the River Bork Campaign!</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694704" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694704"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=187205&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">dwarftough</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=187205&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">546</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> August 4th, 2019, 5:27 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-contact"> <strong>Contact:</strong> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-left"> <a href="#" class="dropdown-trigger" title="Contact dwarftough"> <i class="icon fa-commenting-o fa-fw icon-lg" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Contact dwarftough</span> </a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents contact-icons"> <div> <a href="https://github.com/Discontinuum" title="Website" class="last-cell"> <span class="contact-icon phpbb_website-icon">Website</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> </dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694704"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694704&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694704">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694704&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694704&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694704" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=187205&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">dwarftough</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-14T00:16:05+00:00">November 14th, 2024, 12:16 am</time> </p> <div class="content">I actually like the idea of introducing Ladder Era-like Footpad as a new line of units. That'll be the best of both worlds! SP and UMC that uses Footpads left untouched, MP Default Era gets stats tested by time. The only potential downside of blade Footpad in this case is new art, but if we get one, that'll be nice.<br> <br> Answering some concerns regarding SP/MP split, this is in no way SP/MP split because it will be two different units, with different sprites, different attacks, different name and description. The new axe-guys can find their place in subsequent SP content too.</div> <div id="sig694704" class="signature">Co-founder and current maintainer of IsarFoundation, Afterlife Rated and overall <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=54861" class="postlink">Wesnoth Autohost Project</a><br> Developer and maintainer of my fork of World Conquest, <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewtopic.php?t=54251" class="postlink">Invincibles Conquest II</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p694705" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile694705"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=212431&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">Dalas120</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=212431&sr=posts&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc">162</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> July 5th, 2020, 6:51 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content694705"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=694705&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694705">Re: 1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=694705&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=694705&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc#p694705" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=212431&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" style="color: #CA8935;" class="username-coloured">Dalas120</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2024-11-14T01:19:19+00:00">November 14th, 2024, 1:19 am</time> </p> <div class="content">I share some trepidations with Mirion about this change hinting at a SP/MP split - two units with different damage type but otherwise-identical stats, one that only appears in scenarios and one that mostly only appears in 1v1?<br> <br> However, upon further thought, this sort of thing is not without precedent. Walking Corpses / Soulless already come in a dozen variations, Giant Scorpions are clearly closely related to Sand Scuttlers, Soldier Ants vs Fire Ants, the various horses, etc. I'm ok with a new "Axepad" (or something) unit, as long as we make it clear with the sprite and description that this is a variant of the Footpad - not a separately themed unit with its own identity.<br> <br> Alternatively, I think that changing the Footpad himself to use blade wouldn't cause severe issues for SP/UMC as long as the Outlaw and Fugitive were left intact. In that case, I'd also support a new alternative Woodcutter/Lumberjack advancement for the Footpad, to 1) maintain RIPLPIB and 2) add variety to bandit-only recall lists in SP/UMC campaigns.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="action-bar bar-bottom"> <a href="./posting.php?mode=reply&t=58857&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc" class="button" title="Post a reply"> <span>Post Reply</span> <i class="icon fa-reply fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <form method="post" action="./viewtopic.php?t=58857&sid=32bce2d32a55adabbad5b93ac666d7fc"> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-container-left dropdown-button-control sort-tools"> <span title="Display and sorting options" class="button button-secondary dropdown-trigger dropdown-select"> <i class="icon fa-sort-amount-asc fa-fw" 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1.20 balance change for Core Eras and Units made by the Balance Team - The Battle for Wesnoth Forums