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South Guard 7a. Into the Depths - Page 6 - The Battle for Wesnoth Forums
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Guard 7a. Into the Depths</a></h2> <!-- NOTE: remove the style="display: none" when you want to have the forum description on the topic body --> <div style="display: none !important;">Feedback for the mainline campaign <em class="text-italics">The South Guard</em>.<br /></div> <p> <strong>Moderator:</strong> <a style="color:#008000;" href="./memberlist.php?mode=group&g=6643&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">Forum Moderators</a> </p> <div class="action-bar bar-top"> <a href="./posting.php?mode=reply&t=10286&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="button" title="Post a reply"> <span>Post Reply</span> <i class="icon fa-reply fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <div class="search-box" role="search"> <form method="get" id="topic-search" action="./search.php?sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f"> <fieldset> <input class="inputbox search tiny" type="search" name="keywords" id="search_keywords" size="20" placeholder="Search this topic…" /> <button class="button button-search" type="submit" title="Search"> <i class="icon fa-search fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Search</span> </button> <a href="./search.php?sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="button button-search-end" title="Advanced search"> <i class="icon fa-cog fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Advanced search</span> </a> <input type="hidden" name="t" value="10286" /> <input type="hidden" name="sf" value="msgonly" /> <input type="hidden" name="sid" value="81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" /> </fieldset> </form> </div> <div class="pagination"> 83 posts <ul> <li class="arrow previous"><a class="button button-icon-only" href="./viewtopic.php?t=10286&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f&start=60" rel="prev" role="button"><i class="icon fa-chevron-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Previous</span></a></li> <li><a class="button" href="./viewtopic.php?t=10286&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" role="button">1</a></li> <li><a class="button" href="./viewtopic.php?t=10286&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f&start=15" role="button">2</a></li> <li><a class="button" href="./viewtopic.php?t=10286&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f&start=30" role="button">3</a></li> <li><a class="button" href="./viewtopic.php?t=10286&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f&start=45" role="button">4</a></li> <li><a class="button" href="./viewtopic.php?t=10286&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f&start=60" role="button">5</a></li> <li class="active"><span>6</span></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p645110" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile645110"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=138760&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./download/file.php?avatar=138760_1421450502.png" width="72" height="72" alt="User avatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=138760&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">Tom_Of_Wesnoth</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=138760&sr=posts&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">208</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> January 14th, 2015, 4:03 pm</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-phpbb_location"><strong>Location:</strong> Wesnoth 2020 and Wesnoth 2007</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content645110"> <h3 class="first"> <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=645110&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p645110">Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=645110&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=645110&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p645110" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=138760&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">Tom_Of_Wesnoth</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2019-07-20T17:38:05+00:00">July 20th, 2019, 5:38 pm</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote class="uncited"><div>(1) What <strong class="text-strong">difficulty levels</strong> and <strong class="text-strong">game versions</strong> have you played the scenario on? </div></blockquote> 1.14.7 on Soldier/Normal.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) </div></blockquote> 8. Had to go back a few turns on more than one occasion.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? </div></blockquote> Crystal.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? </div></blockquote> I liked it. The confrontation between Ethiel and Mal M'Brin was good. The trolls were as you'd expect trolls to be. I was expecting more to come of the eyestalk monster at the start, it seemed like the scene was being set for more exotic monster - but in the end, it was just generic undead.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? </div></blockquote> The terrain is pretty horrible, with lots of water that you need to push through, and some nasty chokepoints that slow down your advance.<br> <br> Because of high movement costs, visibility was poor, and more than once I lost a valuable unit to units emerging from beyond where I could see, which was a bit of a pain. <br> <br> The fight at the end, against Mal M'Brin, was a challenge. I ended up swarming his units with Elvish Fighters to keep my stronger units safe. By the time I got past the Draugs and to Mal M'Brin, my arcane heavy hitters were all heavily damaged, and taking him down was difficult.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) </div></blockquote> 3. I'm not really a fan of cave scenarios at the best of times, as they take away from the day-night cycle of combat, and tend to be slow slogs across bad terrain and through chokepoints. This one was the same. <br> <br> I did like having some trolls to fight on my side, though.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div>(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?</div></blockquote> Making the map better. Make the chokepoints a little wider, add more fords in the water sections, and add sections where light is shining down from above that encourage more tactical positioning.</div> <div id="sig645110" class="signature">If presented with the opportunity, I would take great pleasure in becoming a world ruler.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p659832" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile659832"> <dt class="has-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=124329&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" style="color: #008000;" class="username-coloured">Konrad2</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-rank">Forum Moderator</dd> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=124329&sr=posts&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">3382</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> November 24th, 2010, 6:30 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content659832"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=659832&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p659832">Re: South Guard 6a. Into the Depths</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=659832&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=659832&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p659832" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=124329&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" style="color: #008000;" class="username-coloured">Konrad2</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2020-11-08T18:46:47+00:00">November 8th, 2020, 6:46 pm</time> </p> <div class="content"><strong class="text-strong">(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?</strong><br> <br> 1.15.6, Soldier (Normal)<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">(2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)</strong><br> <br> 7, darkness, constant stream of enemies, bats...<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">(3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?</strong><br> <br> Clear.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">(4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?</strong><br> <br> I like it.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">(5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?</strong><br> <br> None.<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">(6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)</strong><br> <br> 5, it's a nice challenge<br> <br> <strong class="text-strong">(7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?</strong><br> <br> -<br> <br> Scenario stats:<br> First attempt <div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px"><div class="quotetitle" style="vertical-align:middle;display:inline-block"><strong>Spoiler:</strong> <input class="button1" style="font-size:0.8em" type="button" value="Show" onclick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; this.innerText = ''; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = 'none'; this.value = 'Show'; this.innerText = ''; }"></div><div class="quotecontent" style="display:none"><div class="inline-attachment"> <dl class="thumbnail"> <dt><a href="./download/file.php?id=88468&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f&mode=view"><img src="./download/file.php?id=88468&t=1&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="postimage" alt="2020-11-08, TSG6a (1).png" title="2020-11-08, TSG6a (1).png (184.4 KiB) Viewed 14650 times" /></a></dt> </dl> </div></div></div> Second attempt <div style="margin:20px;margin-top:5px"><div class="quotetitle" style="vertical-align:middle;display:inline-block"><strong>Spoiler:</strong> <input class="button1" style="font-size:0.8em" type="button" value="Show" onclick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = ''; this.value = 'Hide'; this.innerText = ''; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = 'none'; this.value = 'Show'; this.innerText = ''; }"></div><div class="quotecontent" style="display:none"><div class="inline-attachment"> <dl class="thumbnail"> <dt><a href="./download/file.php?id=88469&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f&mode=view"><img src="./download/file.php?id=88469&t=1&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="postimage" alt="2020-11-08, TSG6a (2).png" title="2020-11-08, TSG6a (2).png (167.41 KiB) Viewed 14650 times" /></a></dt> </dl> </div></div></div></div> <dl class="attachbox"> <dt> Attachments </dt> <dd> <dl class="file"> <dt><img src="./images/upload_icons/zip.gif" alt="" /> <a class="postlink" href="./download/file.php?id=88476&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">TSG-Into the Depths replay 20201108-131936.gz</a></dt> <dd>(47.86 KiB) Downloaded 467 times</dd> </dl> </dd> <dd> <dl class="file"> <dt><img src="./images/upload_icons/zip.gif" alt="" /> <a class="postlink" href="./download/file.php?id=88475&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">TSG-Into the Depths replay 20201108-135442.gz</a></dt> <dd>(51.21 KiB) Downloaded 458 times</dd> </dl> </dd> </dl> <div id="sig659832" class="signature"><a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=68" class="postlink">UMC Replay Forum</a><br> <a href="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C3RJNgIfYY6H6wU73drO8qSByelZNBXra-pvwNEu8RQ/edit#gid=231669847" class="postlink">List of all add-ons and (sort of) their status</a><br> <a href="https://forums.wesnoth.org/viewforum.php?f=22" class="postlink">Mainline campaign feedback</a><br> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4DAMpKPPXlq9m0sA61VZ8Q" class="postlink">Where I upload Wesnoth streams</a></div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p663076" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile663076"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=225435&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">Sandsculpture</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=225435&sr=posts&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">37</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> February 20th, 2021, 2:55 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content663076"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=663076&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p663076">Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=663076&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=663076&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p663076" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=225435&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">Sandsculpture</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-02-28T11:08:55+00:00">February 28th, 2021, 11:08 am</time> </p> <div class="content">(1) What difficulty levels have you played the scenario on?<br> <br> 1.14.15, Hardest<br> <br> (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)<br> <br> 8, Need to beat so many lv2-3 enemies in the cave<br> <br> (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?<br> <br> Clear.<br> <br> (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?<br> <br> Clear<br> <br> (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?<br> <br> - bad terrain, maybe because I don't get well-trained merman<br> - The loyal guards of the ancient lich are so strong that even the troll leader gets quickly killed and I make some save/load there.<br> <br> (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)<br> <br> 4<br> <br> (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?<br> <br> Maybe add a passage between the ancient lich's keep and the troll's keep, allow some undead to appear "behind" the player's main army.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p664346" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile664346"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=228378&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">icecoldsnacks</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=228378&sr=posts&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">1</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> April 16th, 2021, 1:28 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content664346"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=664346&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p664346">Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=664346&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=664346&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p664346" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=228378&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">icecoldsnacks</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2021-04-19T07:13:31+00:00">April 19th, 2021, 7:13 am</time> </p> <div class="content">(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?<br> <br> Soldier (Normal) on 1.14.16 (playing it on Steam)<br> <br> (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)<br> <br> 10<br> <br> (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?<br> <br> Clear<br> <br> (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?<br> <br> Kind of clear, and interesting.<br> <br> (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?<br> <br> On my first attempt, it took me more than 2 hours (playing it on and off) and didn't have enough time (turns) to reach the last boss, so I lost the scenario. I was wondering why the trolls aren't moving (from the dialogue, they said they were hiding from the undead so I thought maybe they didn't really want to leave and just showed me where the enemies are at so I could finish them off and they profit !?!) and it turned out that I could move them after learning from few restarts of this scenario. I felt very stupid that I wasted a lot of time finding that out very late in the game. This is the 4th campaign I'm playing as of now. I've played all of the following campaigns in the highest difficulty (Challenging): A Tale of Two Brothers, An Orcish Incursion, Heir to The Throne. And this might be the most frustrating scenario I've played to date, which is why I'm writing this feedback. I mean one could say that I should have studied the game more thoroughly or something along those lines and you're probably right. Nevertheless, I had fun with the scenario, otherwise I could have just dropped it. It was also my first time controlling trolls.<br> <br> (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)<br> <br> 10<br> <br> (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun<br> <br> To make it less frustrating, there should be something (maybe write it on the dialogue?) that tells the player that one can control the trolls after discovering them. The dialogue tells that they will help and I thought their help would only be in the form of telling where the enemy sources are but I didn't know I could control them.</div> <dl class="attachbox"> <dt> Attachments </dt> <dd> <dl class="file"> <dt><img src="./images/upload_icons/zip.gif" alt="" /> <a class="postlink" href="./download/file.php?id=89925&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">TSG-Into the Depths replay.gz</a></dt> <dd>(52.18 KiB) Downloaded 339 times</dd> </dl> </dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p672559" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile672559"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=172119&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">mal_shubertal</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=172119&sr=posts&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">93</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> December 1st, 2018, 6:58 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content672559"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=672559&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p672559">Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=672559&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=672559&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p672559" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=172119&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">mal_shubertal</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2022-03-31T12:16:11+00:00">March 31st, 2022, 12:16 pm</time> </p> <div class="content">(1) What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on?<br> 1.16.2 Soldier/hardest<br> (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10)<br> 8. Difficult terrain, chokepoints, underground with elves, shroud, lots of high level undead. <br> (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives?<br> very clear, just kill everybody, lol. <br> (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario?<br> This is some of the best dialogue I've seen so far in Wesnoth. The dynamic of 'corruption' that comes with being a necromancer even if you start with good intentions is cool and also showcased in Descent Into Darkness. The racial tensions between elves and humans and the complexity of their relationships is also great. The sort of aside about elves' relationship to iron is a neat reference to more mythological representations of elves, and I'm ok with Ethiliel handwaving it away, since that's pretty on-message for elves being mysterious and suspicious of outsiders. <br> (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario?<br> The chokepoints and cave terrain are really brutal, especially if you don't pick your units correctly. Between elves with their poor cave movement and humans with their lawful alignment, you really have no GOOD choices, just less bad. <br> (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10)<br> 10. Like a lot of the other scenarios in this campaign, I think one of the really clever map design choices here is that every keep is actually MORE accessible by water than by land, so you are rewarded for prioritizing mermen throughout the campaign, and you are encouraged to coordinate aquatic and ground-based units in a way that rarely shows up in other campaigns. The trolls also add an extra level of strategy and some much needed anti-undead support. The final crossing against the lich offers you lots of different tactical options (none of them easy!), which keeps it interesting. A lot like the early scenarios of this campaign, you are playing with limitations that force more creativity. Fighting against undead in bottlenecks with Loyalists, clearly you want mages and heavy infantry, but you have none of those. You are heavily rewarded by bringing some elvish sorceresses, as they are your best units against the undead and especially the liches, but if you didn't prioritize them in the last scenario you're in trouble. On the other hand, the constant stream of enemies gives you LOTS of xp to level up your forces as you go. And although the skeletons are your biggest problems, there is still a place for your blade/pierce units in chopping through all the ghouls at the start. Constraints encourage creativity. <br> (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?<br> I like it the way it is!</div> <dl class="attachbox"> <dt> Attachments </dt> <dd> <dl class="file"> <dt><img src="./images/upload_icons/zip.gif" alt="" /> <a class="postlink" href="./download/file.php?id=92764&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">TSG-Into the Depths replay 20220327-045018.gz</a></dt> <dd>(55.72 KiB) Downloaded 209 times</dd> </dl> </dd> </dl> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p681952" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile681952"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=262188&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">CurtisStarrCook</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=262188&sr=posts&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">6</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> June 1st, 2023, 11:04 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content681952"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=681952&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p681952">Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=681952&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=681952&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p681952" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=262188&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">CurtisStarrCook</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-06-03T06:22:01+00:00">June 3rd, 2023, 6:22 am</time> </p> <div class="content">(1) What <strong class="text-strong">difficulty levels</strong> and <strong class="text-strong">game versions</strong> have you played the scenario on? <br> Max difficulty; version 1.17.16<br> <br> (2) How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) <br> 10 I couldn't complete it, and I'm totally demoralized. Up to this point the campaign had been easy (scenario 6 a bit of a challenge), and then to be jumped by this!<br> <br> (3) How clear did you find the scenario objectives? <br> Clear.<br> <br> (4) How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? <br> Extremely murky! I completely missed the fact that I was able to move the Trolls. According to the dialogue I thought I read, they agreed to show me where the citadels of the Undead rulers were located, and they did. Nothing was mentioned about them fighting, and I got the distinct impression they wanted me gone from their section of the caverns.<br> <br> (5) What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? <br> The unit spamming the Final Boss dropped after he spotted us.<br> <br> (6) How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) <br> 1 I hate no-win scenarios. The approach march to the Final Boss was an interesting tactical situation that took me maybe six hours and innumerable tries to get right… but getting it right did me no good! I reached a position near his citadel with 10 max-level units (plus a couple more about to level up and some filler), nearly all in good shape for hit points. The entire front row was on 60% defensive terrain and could only be hit from limited directions… and he killed two of my 3rd level units AND THEN THE ABOUT-TO-LEVEL-UP SORCERESS BEHIND THEM in one shot. Most disheartening? Even though the Final Boss left his citadel to fight personally, by the time his turn was done he had a solid wall of 3rd level units in front of him.<br> <br> (7) What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun?<br> Add an option for units to wade from the Troll section of the caverns to attack the Final Boss in the rear. For players who stocked up on Mermen (I didn't, and I found the two I was 'gifted' nearly useless), this could give them something to do with them. Even if it also opens up an opportunity for the Final Boss to attack you through the Troll caverns, the additional tactical option might create an opportunity.<br> <br> Even with that, my guess is that the spamming is just too extravagant.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p681955" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile681955"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=262188&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">CurtisStarrCook</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=262188&sr=posts&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">6</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> June 1st, 2023, 11:04 pm</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content681955"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=681955&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p681955">Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=681955&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=681955&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p681955" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=262188&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">CurtisStarrCook</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-06-03T08:18:49+00:00">June 3rd, 2023, 8:18 am</time> </p> <div class="content">I should just edit my previous post to conceal my idiocy, but instead I'll post a correction here to show others the perils of overreacting.<br> <br> For question 2, I'll change difficulty to 8. I was able to complete it on my umpteenth try, but I'm still demoralized.<br> <br> For question 6, I'll raise the 'fun' rating to 4. Still a tedious slog with horrendous loses at the end, but the tactical challenges (horrible terrain, chokepoints) do provide some level of interest.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div id="p685297" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile685297"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=268197&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">JL42</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Posts:</strong> <a href="./search.php?author_id=268197&sr=posts&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f">66</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Joined:</strong> December 9th, 2023, 11:19 am</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content685297"> <h3 > <a href="./viewtopic.php?p=685297&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p685297">Re: South Guard 7a. Into the Depths</a> </h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="./posting.php?mode=quote&p=685297&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" title="Reply with quote" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Quote</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./viewtopic.php?p=685297&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f#p685297" title="Post"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Post</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">by <strong><a href="./memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=268197&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="username">JL42</a></strong> » </span><time datetime="2023-12-16T03:16:11+00:00">December 16th, 2023, 3:16 am</time> </p> <div class="content"><blockquote class="uncited"><div> What difficulty levels and game versions have you played the scenario on? </div></blockquote> v. 1.16.10<br> Soldier / Normal<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> How difficult did you find the scenario? (1-10) </div></blockquote> 9 – This is seriously hard. But fun, at least for me.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> How clear did you find the scenario objectives? </div></blockquote> Very clear.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> How clear and interesting did you find the dialog and storyline of the scenario? </div></blockquote> The dialogue and storyline are very well done.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> What were your major challenges in meeting the objectives of the scenario? </div></blockquote> It's a difficult and complex fight throughout – numerous high-level enemies on poor terrain – but there's also some good strategic options, especially if you have netcasters. I struggled with the major bottleneck around the second enemy leader because I didn't want to go in by sea and lose the mermen. Eventually that leader charged out of his keep, which let me pin him and clear that part out. But then time's running out and you still have a ways to go. Meanwhile, you have to figure out how to keep the bats under control as they come out of nowhere behind you. And skeletons randomly popping up out of the deep water. Then, of course, there's the final enemy who has an insane pile of lvl. 3 guards and endless gold for recruiting.<br> <br> The first time I played this I was avoiding using the trolls because they can't come with us to the later scenarios. After getting my arse handed to me less than halfway through the map I was like, OK, we need to level the trolls. I think that's really a key – level the trolls like crazy, so that when you get to the final leader you'll have a lot more firepower. I got wiped out at the end a couple of times, but ultimately figured out how to carefully peel off those defenders while employing some sacrificial blockers and landing my slowing attacks. When we did finally achieve the victory, it was because Hylas hit his 50/50 win-or-die attack on the last round before time ran out.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> How fun do you think the scenario is? (1-10) </div></blockquote> 8 – This is a really cool map (and also good narratively), but for me the frustration factor of getting repeatedly wiped at the very end reduced the enjoyment a bit. I don't like reloading in the middle of a scenario so I ended up going back through the whole thing multiple times before finally beating it. Still fun though.<br> <blockquote class="uncited"><div> What, if any, are changes you would have made to the scenario to make it more fun? </div></blockquote> The challenge is welcome here, but since it is such a long slog (and supposedly a "Novice" campaign!) I think I would recommend toning down the guards around the final leader. Only slightly though. Maybe removing one or two of them, changing some to level 2 and/or or spacing them out a bit more so that they are easier to take one at a time. Could also take deathblades away from the enemy recruitment so that they only send revenants and archers. All things considered, though, I do really like this map. It's well made and feels like a worthy culmination of Deoran's adventure.<br> <br> About the Overall Campaign:<br> <br> In general this campaign is really well done. The story and writing quality are notable here; it draws me in right from the start, gives Deoran some background and character, and creates a sense of urgency and mystery about what is going on in the countryside. You can really see the hero developing across the scenarios as new realizations emerge and as the challenges he faces continue to become more significant.<br> <br> Most of the maps are excellent as well, very thoughtfully designed, and the battles feel engaging and meaningful. The early scenarios are mostly simple and easy but then they become solidly difficult around #5 and #6. Nearly all of them have some kind of interesting happenings or combat complexities. Really just enjoyable to play.<br> <br> The only thing that brings this down for me is the final two scenarios. (I'm reviewing the elf branch – never played the bandit branch since they are clearly scum and siding with them seems like it would be out of character for Deoran.) In the elf branch, the last two scenarios feel like a total afterthought and waste of time; you could wrap this up with an epilogue after scenario 6 and be better for it. The story aspects continue to be good in those final scenarios, but the actual gameplay is a massive letdown from the previous maps.<br> <br> For me the campaign is 4 out of 5 stars; the only reason it doesn't get full marks is the boringness of the final two scenarios.</div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Top"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Top</span> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="action-bar bar-bottom"> <a href="./posting.php?mode=reply&t=10286&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f" class="button" title="Post a reply"> <span>Post Reply</span> <i class="icon fa-reply fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <form method="post" action="./viewtopic.php?t=10286&start=75&sid=81a3e1274e4ef71517a1625d08c4590f"> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-container-left dropdown-button-control sort-tools"> <span title="Display and sorting options" class="button button-secondary 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