CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"> <title>Talk:Tenseness - Wikipedia</title> <script>(function(){var className="client-js vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-page-tools-pinned-disabled vector-feature-toc-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-main-menu-pinned-disabled vector-feature-limited-width-clientpref-1 vector-feature-limited-width-content-enabled vector-feature-custom-font-size-clientpref-1 vector-feature-appearance-pinned-clientpref-1 vector-feature-night-mode-enabled skin-theme-clientpref-day vector-toc-available";var cookie=document.cookie.match(/(?:^|; )enwikimwclientpreferences=([^;]+)/);if(cookie){cookie[1].split('%2C').forEach(function(pref){className=className.replace(new RegExp('(^| )'+pref.replace(/-clientpref-\w+$|[^\w-]+/g,'')+'-clientpref-\\w+( |$)'),'$1'+pref+'$2');});}document.documentElement.className=className;}());RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy", "wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"edd55fac-06e7-4435-838c-12d530f5f040","wgCanonicalNamespace":"Talk","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":1,"wgPageName":"Talk:Tenseness","wgTitle":"Tenseness","wgCurRevisionId":1203451141,"wgRevisionId":1203451141,"wgArticleId":21552260,"wgIsArticle":true,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"view","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":["Start-Class Linguistics articles","Unknown-importance Linguistics articles","Start-Class phonetics articles","Unknown-importance phonetics articles","Phonetics Task Force articles","WikiProject Linguistics articles"],"wgPageViewLanguage":"en","wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"Talk:Tenseness","wgRelevantArticleId":21552260,"wgIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":true,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":[] ,"wgNoticeProject":"wikipedia","wgCiteReferencePreviewsActive":false,"wgFlaggedRevsParams":{"tags":{"status":{"levels":1}}},"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":0,"wgVisualEditor":{"pageLanguageCode":"en","pageLanguageDir":"ltr","pageVariantFallbacks":"en"},"wgMFDisplayWikibaseDescriptions":{"search":true,"watchlist":true,"tagline":false,"nearby":true},"wgWMESchemaEditAttemptStepOversample":false,"wgWMEPageLength":8000,"wgRelatedArticlesCompat":[],"wgEditSubmitButtonLabelPublish":true,"wgDiscussionToolsFeaturesEnabled":{"replytool":true,"newtopictool":true,"sourcemodetoolbar":true,"topicsubscription":false,"autotopicsub":false,"visualenhancements":false,"visualenhancements_reply":false,"visualenhancements_pageframe":false},"wgDiscussionToolsFallbackEditMode":"source","wgULSPosition":"interlanguage","wgULSisCompactLinksEnabled":false,"wgVector2022LanguageInHeader":true,"wgULSisLanguageSelectorEmpty":true,"wgCheckUserClientHintsHeadersJsApi":[ "brands","architecture","bitness","fullVersionList","mobile","model","platform","platformVersion"],"GEHomepageSuggestedEditsEnableTopics":true,"wgGETopicsMatchModeEnabled":false,"wgGEStructuredTaskRejectionReasonTextInputEnabled":false,"wgGELevelingUpEnabledForUser":false};RLSTATE={"ext.globalCssJs.user.styles":"ready","site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","ext.globalCssJs.user":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","ext.inputBox.styles":"ready","ext.discussionTools.init.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.styles":"ready","oojs-ui.styles.indicators":"ready","mediawiki.widgets.styles":"ready","oojs-ui-core.icons":"ready","skins.vector.search.codex.styles":"ready","skins.vector.styles":"ready","skins.vector.icons":"ready","jquery.makeCollapsible.styles":"ready","ext.wikimediamessages.styles":"ready","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript":"ready","ext.uls.interlanguage":"ready","ext.wikimediaBadges":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["site","mediawiki.page.ready", "jquery.makeCollapsible","skins.vector.js","ext.centralNotice.geoIP","ext.centralNotice.startUp","ext.gadget.ReferenceTooltips","ext.gadget.switcher","ext.urlShortener.toolbar","ext.centralauth.centralautologin","mmv.bootstrap","ext.popups","ext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.init","ext.visualEditor.targetLoader","ext.echo.centralauth","ext.discussionTools.init","ext.eventLogging","ext.wikimediaEvents","ext.navigationTiming","ext.uls.interface","ext.cx.eventlogging.campaigns","ext.checkUser.clientHints","ext.growthExperiments.SuggestedEditSession"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.impl(function(){return["user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"}); }];});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=ext.discussionTools.init.styles%7Cext.inputBox.styles%7Cext.uls.interlanguage%7Cext.visualEditor.desktopArticleTarget.noscript%7Cext.wikimediaBadges%7Cext.wikimediamessages.styles%7Cjquery.makeCollapsible.styles%7Cmediawiki.widgets.styles%7Coojs-ui-core.icons%2Cstyles%7Coojs-ui.styles.indicators%7Cskins.vector.icons%2Cstyles%7Cskins.vector.search.codex.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <script async="" src="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector-2022"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/w/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector-2022"> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.44.0-wmf.5"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin"> <meta name="referrer" content="origin-when-cross-origin"> <meta name="robots" content="max-image-preview:standard"> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1120"> <meta property="og:title" content="Talk:Tenseness - Wikipedia"> <meta property="og:type" content="website"> <link rel="preconnect" href="//upload.wikimedia.org"> <link rel="alternate" media="only screen and (max-width: 640px)" href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/x-wiki" title="Edit this page" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=edit"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/static/apple-touch/wikipedia.png"> <link rel="icon" href="/static/favicon/wikipedia.ico"> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/w/rest.php/v1/search" title="Wikipedia (en)"> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="//en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php?action=rsd"> <link rel="canonical" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness"> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en"> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Wikipedia Atom feed" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//meta.wikimedia.org" /> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//login.wikimedia.org"> </head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin--responsive skin-vector skin-vector-search-vue mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-1 ns-talk mw-editable page-Talk_Tenseness rootpage-Talk_Tenseness skin-vector-2022 action-view"><a class="mw-jump-link" href="#bodyContent">Jump to content</a> <div class="vector-header-container"> <header class="vector-header mw-header"> <div class="vector-header-start"> <nav class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-main-menu-dropdown vector-button-flush-left vector-button-flush-right" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-main-menu-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Main menu" > <label id="vector-main-menu-dropdown-label" for="vector-main-menu-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-menu mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-menu"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Main menu</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-main-menu" class="vector-main-menu vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-main-menu-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="main-menu-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-main-menu" data-pinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-main-menu-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Main menu</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-main-menu.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-navigation" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-navigation" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Navigation </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-mainpage-description" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Visit the main page [z]" accesskey="z"><span>Main page</span></a></li><li id="n-contents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contents" title="Guides to browsing Wikipedia"><span>Contents</span></a></li><li id="n-currentevents" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Current_events" title="Articles related to current events"><span>Current events</span></a></li><li id="n-randompage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:Random" title="Visit a randomly selected article [x]" accesskey="x"><span>Random article</span></a></li><li id="n-aboutsite" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About" title="Learn about Wikipedia and how it works"><span>About Wikipedia</span></a></li><li id="n-contactpage" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us" title="How to contact Wikipedia"><span>Contact us</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-interaction" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-interaction" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Contribute </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="n-help" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Guidance on how to use and edit Wikipedia"><span>Help</span></a></li><li id="n-introduction" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Learn how to edit Wikipedia"><span>Learn to edit</span></a></li><li id="n-portal" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_portal" title="The hub for editors"><span>Community portal</span></a></li><li id="n-recentchanges" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChanges" title="A list of recent changes to Wikipedia [r]" accesskey="r"><span>Recent changes</span></a></li><li id="n-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_upload_wizard" title="Add images or other media for use on Wikipedia"><span>Upload file</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" class="mw-logo"> <img class="mw-logo-icon" src="/static/images/icons/wikipedia.png" alt="" aria-hidden="true" height="50" width="50"> <span class="mw-logo-container skin-invert"> <img class="mw-logo-wordmark" alt="Wikipedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-wordmark-en.svg" style="width: 7.5em; height: 1.125em;"> <img class="mw-logo-tagline" alt="The Free Encyclopedia" src="/static/images/mobile/copyright/wikipedia-tagline-en.svg" width="117" height="13" style="width: 7.3125em; height: 0.8125em;"> </span> </a> </div> <div class="vector-header-end"> <div id="p-search" role="search" class="vector-search-box-vue vector-search-box-collapses vector-search-box-show-thumbnail vector-search-box-auto-expand-width vector-search-box"> <a href="/wiki/Special:Search" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only search-toggle" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-search mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-search"></span> <span>Search</span> </a> <div class="vector-typeahead-search-container"> <div class="cdx-typeahead-search cdx-typeahead-search--show-thumbnail cdx-typeahead-search--auto-expand-width"> <form action="/w/index.php" id="searchform" class="cdx-search-input cdx-search-input--has-end-button"> <div id="simpleSearch" class="cdx-search-input__input-wrapper" data-search-loc="header-moved"> <div class="cdx-text-input cdx-text-input--has-start-icon"> <input class="cdx-text-input__input" type="search" name="search" placeholder="Search Wikipedia" aria-label="Search Wikipedia" autocapitalize="sentences" title="Search Wikipedia [f]" accesskey="f" id="searchInput" > <span class="cdx-text-input__icon cdx-text-input__start-icon"></span> </div> <input type="hidden" name="title" value="Special:Search"> </div> <button class="cdx-button cdx-search-input__end-button">Search</button> </form> </div> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-user-links vector-user-links-wide" aria-label="Personal tools"> <div class="vector-user-links-main"> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-preferences" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-userpage" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown " title="Change the appearance of the page's font size, width, and color" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-appearance-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Appearance" > <label id="vector-appearance-dropdown-label" for="vector-appearance-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-appearance mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-appearance"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Appearance</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-notifications" class="vector-menu mw-portlet emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-vector-user-menu-overflow" class="vector-menu mw-portlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en" class=""><span>Donate</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-createaccount-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Talk%3ATenseness" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory" class=""><span>Create account</span></a> </li> <li id="pt-login-2" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item user-links-collapsible-item"><a data-mw="interface" href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Talk%3ATenseness" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o" class=""><span>Log in</span></a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> <div id="vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-user-menu vector-button-flush-right vector-user-menu-logged-out" title="Log in and more options" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-user-links-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Personal tools" > <label id="vector-user-links-dropdown-label" for="vector-user-links-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-ellipsis mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-ellipsis"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Personal tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-personal" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-personal user-links-collapsible-item" title="User menu" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-sitesupport" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="https://donate.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:FundraiserRedirector?utm_source=donate&utm_medium=sidebar&utm_campaign=C13_en.wikipedia.org&uselang=en"><span>Donate</span></a></li><li id="pt-createaccount" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:CreateAccount&returnto=Talk%3ATenseness" title="You are encouraged to create an account and log in; however, it is not mandatory"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-userAdd mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-userAdd"></span> <span>Create account</span></a></li><li id="pt-login" class="user-links-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&returnto=Talk%3ATenseness" title="You're encouraged to log in; however, it's not mandatory. [o]" accesskey="o"><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-logIn mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-logIn"></span> <span>Log in</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-user-menu-anon-editor" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-user-menu-anon-editor" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Pages for logged out editors <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" aria-label="Learn more about editing"><span>learn more</span></a> </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="pt-anoncontribs" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyContributions" title="A list of edits made from this IP address [y]" accesskey="y"><span>Contributions</span></a></li><li id="pt-anontalk" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:MyTalk" title="Discussion about edits from this IP address [n]" accesskey="n"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </header> </div> <div class="mw-page-container"> <div class="mw-page-container-inner"> <div class="vector-sitenotice-container"> <div id="siteNotice"></div> </div> <div class="vector-column-start"> <div class="vector-main-menu-container"> <div id="mw-navigation"> <nav id="mw-panel" class="vector-main-menu-landmark" aria-label="Site"> <div id="vector-main-menu-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav id="mw-panel-toc" aria-label="Contents" data-event-name="ui.sidebar-toc" class="mw-table-of-contents-container vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-toc-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-toc" class="vector-toc vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-toc-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="toc-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-toc" > <h2 class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Contents</h2> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-Tensing_vs._raising" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tensing_vs._raising"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>Tensing vs. raising</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">11 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Tensing_vs._raising-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>In Dutch, tense vowels are not longer in duration?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Contradiction" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Contradiction"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Contradiction</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Contradiction-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Tenseness</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang mw-portlet-lang-icon-only" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector-empty" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. Add the article for other languages" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only mw-portlet-lang-heading-empty" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-language mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-language"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Add languages</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="mw-portlet-empty-language-selector-body"> Page contents not supported in other languages. </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Namespaces"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-main" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Tenseness" title="View the content page [c]" accesskey="c"><span>Article</span></a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:Tenseness" rel="discussion" title="Discuss improvements to the content page [t]" accesskey="t"><span>Talk</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Change language variant" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">English</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Views"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:Tenseness"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="istalk vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-addsection" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=edit&section=new" title="Start a new section [+]" accesskey="+"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=history" title="Past revisions of this page [h]" accesskey="h"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Tools" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Tools</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Tools</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">hide</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="More options" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Actions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Talk:Tenseness"><span>Read</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="istalk vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=edit" title="Edit this page [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Edit</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-addsection" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=edit&section=new"><span>Add topic</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=history"><span>View history</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> General </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Talk:Tenseness" title="List of all English Wikipedia pages containing links to this page [j]" accesskey="j"><span>What links here</span></a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:RecentChangesLinked/Talk:Tenseness" rel="nofollow" title="Recent changes in pages linked from this page [k]" accesskey="k"><span>Related changes</span></a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:File_Upload_Wizard" title="Upload files [u]" accesskey="u"><span>Upload file</span></a></li><li id="t-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Special:SpecialPages" title="A list of all special pages [q]" accesskey="q"><span>Special pages</span></a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&oldid=1203451141" title="Permanent link to this revision of this page"><span>Permanent link</span></a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=info" title="More information about this page"><span>Page information</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTalk%3ATenseness"><span>Get shortened URL</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTalk%3ATenseness"><span>Download QR code</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Print/export </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Special:DownloadAsPdf&page=Talk%3ATenseness&action=show-download-screen" title="Download this page as a PDF file"><span>Download as PDF</span></a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&printable=yes" title="Printable version of this page [p]" accesskey="p"><span>Printable version</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> In other projects </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Page tools"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Appearance"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Appearance</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">hide</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1243927654">.mw-parser-output .banner-shell{border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:4px}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-header{text-align:center;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{padding:2px 4px;background:#fffaef;color:inherit;border:1px dotted gray}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox{margin:2px 0;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox.mbox-small{line-height:1.5em;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner .banner-shell-outside{display:none}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpbs{width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .assess{width:60px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-header{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em 0.25em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-header{display:table-row}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb:not(.mw-collapsed) .wpb-header-icon a{display:none}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell wpbs mw-collapsible"><tbody><tr><td class="assess"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_start_class.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Start-Class article"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Symbol_start_class.svg/35px-Symbol_start_class.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="36" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Symbol_start_class.svg/53px-Symbol_start_class.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Symbol_start_class.svg/70px-Symbol_start_class.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span></td><td class="banner-shell-header" style="text-align:left;font-weight:normal">This article is rated <b>Start-class</b> on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale.<br/>It is of interest to the following <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProjects</a>:</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259570071">.mw-parser-output .wpb-header,.mw-parser-output .wpb-metadata,.mw-parser-output .wpb-iefix{display:none}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-name{text-align:right;padding:0.3em 1em 0.3em 0.3em;width:50%;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-assessment{text-align:left;width:50%;padding:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-combined{text-align:left;padding:0.3em 0.3em 0.3em 0;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-bubbles{border-radius:.5em;padding:0 .3em;margin-left:0.5em;white-space:nowrap;font-weight:normal;color:black}.mw-parser-output .wpb-nested-task-force{font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-icon{width:50px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#F5F5F5;border-width:1px;width:500px}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main{background-color:#FFFAEF;padding:3px 0 3px 0.7em}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-main{padding:3px 5px}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#FFFAEF}.mw-parser-output .wpb-main>table{background-color:transparent;border:none;padding:0;width:100%;border-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-image{padding:2px 0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-head{text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-notes{padding:0}.mw-parser-output .wpb-collapsed-notes>table{width:100%;background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .wpb .wpb-gutter{padding:2px 0 0 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#f8eaba;border:none}.mw-parser-output .wpb-table{table-layout:fixed}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpb{min-width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .assess{font-weight:bold;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;color:black}.mw-parser-output .import-top{background-color:#FFBFFF}.mw-parser-output .import-high{background-color:#FFCCFF}.mw-parser-output .import-mid{background-color:#FFD9FF}.mw-parser-output .import-low{background-color:#FFE7FF}.mw-parser-output .import-bottom{background-color:#FFEBFF}.mw-parser-output .import-na{background-color:#F5F5F5}.mw-parser-output .import-unknown{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .class-fa,.mw-parser-output .class-fl,.mw-parser-output .class-fm{background-color:#BED3FF}.mw-parser-output .class-a,.mw-parser-output .class-al{background-color:#C0FFFF}.mw-parser-output .class-ga{background-color:#C0FFC0}.mw-parser-output .class-b,.mw-parser-output .class-bl{background-color:#DFFFBF}.mw-parser-output .class-c,.mw-parser-output .class-cl{background-color:#FFFFBE}.mw-parser-output .class-start{background-color:#FFDBBF}.mw-parser-output .class-stub,.mw-parser-output .class-sl{background-color:#FFC0C0}.mw-parser-output .class-list{background-color:#D2C0FF}.mw-parser-output .class-na{background-color:#F5F5F5}.mw-parser-output .class-category{background-color:#FFDB58}.mw-parser-output .class-disambig{background-color:#00FA9A}.mw-parser-output .class-draft{background-color:#E7B198}.mw-parser-output .class-file{background-color:#DDCCFF}.mw-parser-output .class-future{background-color:#B4BBFF}.mw-parser-output .class-portal{background-color:#DDB1BC}.mw-parser-output .class-project{background-color:#C0C090}.mw-parser-output .class-redirect{background-color:#C0C0C0}.mw-parser-output .class-sia{background-color:#E9DAFF}.mw-parser-output .class-user{background-color:#DDD06A}.mw-parser-output .class-template{background-color:#FBCEB1}.mw-parser-output .class-unassessed{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .conflict{border:0.2em solid red}.mw-parser-output .inactive-wikiproject .wpb-header-bubbles{color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:ParseTree.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/25px-ParseTree.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/38px-ParseTree.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/50px-ParseTree.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="120" data-file-height="120"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics">Linguistics</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics/Phonetics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics/Phonetics">Phonetics</a></span> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:ParseTree.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/50px-ParseTree.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/75px-ParseTree.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6e/ParseTree.svg/100px-ParseTree.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="120" data-file-height="120"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259569809">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Noun-linguistics.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Noun-linguistics.svg/25px-Noun-linguistics.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Noun-linguistics.svg/38px-Noun-linguistics.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Noun-linguistics.svg/51px-Noun-linguistics.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="29" data-file-height="32"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Linguistics" title="Portal:Linguistics">Linguistics portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics">WikiProject Linguistics</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Linguistics" title="Linguistics">linguistics</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Linguistics" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Linguistics">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Linguistics</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Linguistics</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Linguistics articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-unknown"><a href="/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:Unknown-importance Linguistics articles">???</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has not yet received a rating on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Praat-spectrogram-tatata.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Praat-spectrogram-tatata.png/47px-Praat-spectrogram-tatata.png" decoding="async" width="47" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Praat-spectrogram-tatata.png/71px-Praat-spectrogram-tatata.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Praat-spectrogram-tatata.png/93px-Praat-spectrogram-tatata.png 2x" data-file-width="528" data-file-height="284"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Linguistics/Phonetics" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Linguistics/Phonetics">Phonetics Task Force</a></b>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice mbox-small" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span><br/><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> </td></tr><tr><td class="plainlinks" style="padding:0px 10px; text-align:left;"> <ol><li><a href="/wiki/Talk:Tenseness/Archive_1" title="Talk:Tenseness/Archive 1">April 2005 to January 2009</a></li></ol> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Tenseness/" name="prefix"/><br/><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr> </tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tensing_vs._raising" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tensing_vs._raising-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Tensing_vs._raising-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z"></span>Tensing vs. raising<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Tensing_vs._raising-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Tensing vs. raising"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"></span>Anyone know if there is some definitive difference between "tensing" and "raising"? The term tensing appears a lot regarding <a href="/wiki/Happy_tensing" class="mw-redirect" title="Happy tensing">happy tensing</a> and <a href="/wiki/%C3%86_tensing" class="mw-redirect" title="Æ tensing">æ tensing</a>, so I know it's used as a verb.<a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wolfdog" title="User talk:Wolfdog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 31 August 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a>:</span> I used to think that these terms mean the same. It's partially true, because sometimes they do. Sometimes, however, they don't. The way I understand it is that in the latter case, "tense vowel" and "lax vowel" refer to the tenseness of the tongue present during the production of the vowel. For instance, German <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/iː/</span> is a tense vowel, but <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/ɪ/</span> is a lax vowel. This distinction can be transcribed in the IPA using the "strongly articulated" and "weakly articulated" diacritics: <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">[i͈ː,<span class="wrap"> </span>ɪ͉]</span>. It's pretty much a kind of a <a href="/wiki/Fortis_and_lenis" title="Fortis and lenis">fortis–lenis</a> distinction.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>In case of vowels, 'raising' <i>always</i> means articulating a vowel closer to the roof of the mouth than some point of reference. <a href="/wiki/User:Peter238" title="User:Peter238">Peter238</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter238" title="User talk:Peter238">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:29, 6 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z"></span>OK. So then it goes beyond just vowels? <a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wolfdog" title="User talk:Wolfdog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:45, 10 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a>:</span> If you're talking about raising, then yes, the 'raised' diacritic can be applied to consonants as well, e.g. in case of <span class="nowrap">⟨<span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">ɹ̝</span>⟩</span> (constricted <span class="nowrap">⟨<span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">ɹ</span>⟩</span>), which is equivalent to both <span class="nowrap">⟨<span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">ð̠</span>⟩</span> (retracted <span class="nowrap">⟨<span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">ð</span>⟩</span>) and <span class="nowrap">⟨<span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">ð͇</span>⟩</span> (alveolarized <span class="nowrap">⟨<span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">ð</span>⟩</span>). All three symbols denote a <a href="/wiki/Voiced_alveolar_fricative#Voiced_alveolar_non-sibilant_fricative" title="Voiced alveolar fricative">voiced alveolar non-sibilant fricative</a>, found e.g. in Icelandic.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>In short: when the 'raised' diacritic is used on an approximant, it means either "strengthened to a non-sibilant fricative" or "a continuant with some friction" (=weak fricative, more or less). When it is used on a fricative, it means either "a fricative with a strong friction", or "this is a fricative, as opposed to an approximant" (e.g. in case of the symbols <span class="nowrap">⟨<span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">β,<span class="wrap"> </span>ð,<span class="wrap"> </span>ʁ</span>⟩</span>, which commonly denote both, despite the fact that they are labelled "fricatives" in the official IPA). It is also used on the symbols denoting alveolar/uvular trills and flaps to denote <a href="/wiki/Fricative_trill" class="mw-redirect" title="Fricative trill">fricative trills</a> and <a href="/wiki/Fricative_flap" class="mw-redirect" title="Fricative flap">fricative flaps</a>, found e.g. in Czech and Turkish. <a href="/wiki/User:Peter238" title="User:Peter238">Peter238</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter238" title="User talk:Peter238">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:24, 11 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z"></span>Oh no, sorry, I meant "tensing." I guess I'm still confused about the distinction in any case. Are there scenarios where something is tensed but NOT raised, or raised but NOT tensed? <a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wolfdog" title="User talk:Wolfdog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z"></span>No problem, and I'm not sure. This article features the following sentence: <i>Unlike most distinctive features, the feature [tense] can be interpreted only relatively, that is, in a language like English that contrasts <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">[i]</span> (e.g. beat) and <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">[ɪ]</span> (e.g. bit), the former can be described as a tense vowel while the latter is a lax vowel.</i> My guess is 'no'. <a href="/wiki/User:Peter238" title="User:Peter238">Peter238</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter238" title="User talk:Peter238">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:20, 12 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:10:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, it's puzzling. I'm beginning to assume that "tensed" is a matter of mere perception, while "raised" is a matter of measurable production. <a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wolfdog" title="User talk:Wolfdog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:10:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:10, 18 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:10:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:10:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a>:</span> I don't know what else I could contribute here besides getting back to German vowels. That's the best I can do. Morciniec & Prędota (2005) say in their "Podręcznik wymowy niemieckiej" that "<span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/iː/</span> is tense and long. The muscles are tense, so that the air is more compressed and has higher pressure than it is the case with lax vowels." They describe the other tense vowels <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/yː,<span class="wrap"> </span>uː,<span class="wrap"> </span>eː,<span class="wrap"> </span>øː,<span class="wrap"> </span>oː,<span class="wrap"> </span>ɑː/</span> (the last one is transcribed <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/aː/</span> on Wikipedia) similarly. <a href="/wiki/User:Peter238" title="User:Peter238">Peter238</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter238" title="User talk:Peter238">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:36, 18 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z"></span>Hmm... the <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/ɑː/</span> vowel certainly seems to be the odd one out there, doesn't it? I can't even imagine what tenseness of the muscles is being referred to in that case. Well, thanks for your investigations! <a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wolfdog" title="User talk:Wolfdog">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:42, 18 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:55:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Wolfdog" title="User:Wolfdog">Wolfdog</a>:</span> Maybe it's my bad translation. Vowels are produced with the tongue, so they probably refer to it. According to them, <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/ɑː/</span> is the tense counterpart of the front <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/a/</span>. I think this distinction is archaic though. Max Mangold, Eva Krech and other scholars describe both <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/a/</span> and <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/aː/</span> as open central. Actually, Eva Krech et al. in their "Deutsches Aussprachewörterbuch" say nothing about <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/a/</span> nor <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/aː/</span> being tense/lax (contrary to the other vowel pairs... but on second thought, they may be simply writing "tense" and "lax" instead of "close" and "open"). They simply say that <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/a/</span> is "short", whereas <span class="IPA nowrap" lang="und-Latn-fonipa" title="Representation in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA)">/aː/</span> is "long". I also suspect that German spoken with all vowels being "lax" (or "tense"), but having the right quality would be perfectly intelligible to native speakers. I can't imagine any teacher/voice coach/whatever making a fuss about it. <a href="/wiki/User:Peter238" title="User:Peter238">Peter238</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peter238" title="User talk:Peter238">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:55:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:55, 18 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:55:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:55:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajd-2015-09-20T03:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"></span>The way I describe it to my intro linguistics students is, tense vowels are <i>more extreme</i> in their articulation than lax vowels: a tense front vowel is fronter than a lax front vowel; a tense back vowel is backer than a lax back vowel; a tense rounded vowel is rounder than a lax rounded vowel; etc. Tensing often <i>leads to</i> raising, but it is not the same thing. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajd" title="User:Ajd">AJD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajd" title="User talk:Ajd">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-Ajd-2015-09-20T03:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:36, 20 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajd-2015-09-20T03:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajd-2015-09-20T03:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising"></span> </p><p><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Peter238" title="User:Peter238">Peter238</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Ajd" title="User:Ajd">Ajd</a>:</span> You may be interested in a (merger?) discussion I've started <a href="/wiki/Talk:Fortis_and_lenis#Merger.2C_please.3F_.28Sept._2015.29" title="Talk:Fortis and lenis">here</a>, and all the crazy nuances of tenseness vs. raising vs. fortis. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?" data-mw-thread-id="h-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z"><span id="In_Dutch.2C_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z"></span>In Dutch, tense vowels are not longer in duration?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: In Dutch, tense vowels are not longer in duration?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?"></span>Let's take "lied" (song) and "lid" (member) as an example, corresponding in pronunciation to "beat" and "bit" in English. Indeed, the vowel in "beat" is longer than in "bit" in received pronunciation, but in Dutch, "lied" is not always longer than "lid". HOWEVER, the Brabantic dialect makes "lied" longer than "lid", while for instance the West-Flemish or even Hollandic dialect pronounces "lied" and "lid" with the same duration. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8" title="Special:Contributions/2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8">2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:23, 22 June 2016 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-46.114.36.90-2019-09-27T09:03:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?"></span>The lede is ambiguous as to which qualities <i>define</i> tenseness. You cannot define a tense vowel as being "generally" longer, and then go on to say that length and tenseness go together only in some languages. Muscular tension is also a bad defining criterion if studies don't confirm that connection. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.114.36.90" title="Special:Contributions/46.114.36.90">46.114.36.90</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:46.114.36.90&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:46.114.36.90 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-46.114.36.90-2019-09-27T09:03:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:03, 27 September 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-46.114.36.90-2019-09-27T09:03:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-46.114.36.90-2019-09-27T09:03:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Contradiction" data-mw-thread-id="h-Contradiction-20240106190300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Contradiction-20240106190300"></span>Contradiction<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Contradiction-20240106190300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Contradiction"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-100.34.46.136-20240106190300-Contradiction"></span>This article claims tenseness is a common feature, however the article on vowels claims it is uncommon, occurring mainly in Germanic languages. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/100.34.46.136" title="Special:Contributions/100.34.46.136">100.34.46.136</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:100.34.46.136&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:100.34.46.136 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Tenseness#c-100.34.46.136-20240106190300-Contradiction" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-100.34.46.136-20240106190300-Contradiction"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-100.34.46.136-20240106190300-Contradiction"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&oldid=1203451141">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&oldid=1203451141</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:Start-Class Linguistics articles">Start-Class Linguistics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:Unknown-importance Linguistics articles">Unknown-importance Linguistics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_phonetics_articles" title="Category:Start-Class phonetics articles">Start-Class phonetics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Unknown-importance_phonetics_articles" title="Category:Unknown-importance phonetics articles">Unknown-importance phonetics articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Phonetics_Task_Force_articles" title="Category:Phonetics Task Force articles">Phonetics Task Force articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Linguistics_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Linguistics articles">WikiProject Linguistics articles</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 4 February 2024, at 22:40<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. By using this site, you agree to the <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms_of_Use" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Terms of Use">Terms of Use</a> and <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy" class="extiw" title="foundation:Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy policy">Privacy Policy</a>. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/">Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.</a>, a non-profit organization.</li> </ul> <ul id="footer-places"> <li id="footer-places-privacy"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Privacy_policy">Privacy policy</a></li> <li id="footer-places-about"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:About">About Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-disclaimers"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer">Disclaimers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-contact"><a href="//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us">Contact Wikipedia</a></li> <li id="footer-places-wm-codeofconduct"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Universal_Code_of_Conduct">Code of Conduct</a></li> <li id="footer-places-developers"><a href="https://developer.wikimedia.org">Developers</a></li> <li id="footer-places-statslink"><a href="https://stats.wikimedia.org/#/en.wikipedia.org">Statistics</a></li> <li id="footer-places-cookiestatement"><a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Policy:Cookie_statement">Cookie statement</a></li> <li id="footer-places-mobileview"><a href="//en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Tenseness&mobileaction=toggle_view_mobile" class="noprint stopMobileRedirectToggle">Mobile view</a></li> </ul> <ul id="footer-icons" class="noprint"> <li id="footer-copyrightico"><a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/static/images/footer/wikimedia-button.svg" width="84" height="29" alt="Wikimedia Foundation" loading="lazy"></a></li> <li id="footer-poweredbyico"><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/" class="cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button--enabled"><img src="/w/resources/assets/poweredby_mediawiki.svg" alt="Powered by MediaWiki" width="88" height="31" loading="lazy"></a></li> </ul> </footer> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-settings" id="p-dock-bottom"> <ul></ul> </div><script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.config.set({"wgHostname":"mw-web.codfw.main-5c59558b9d-hq6gw","wgBackendResponseTime":111,"wgDiscussionToolsPageThreads":[{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Tensing_vs._raising-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z","author":"Wolfdog","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z","author":"Peter238","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-08-31T22:09:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z","author":"Wolfdog","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-06T11:29:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z","author":"Peter238","type":"comment","level":4,"id":"c-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-10T23:45:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z","author":"Wolfdog","type":"comment","level":5,"id":"c-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-11T05:24:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z","author":"Peter238","type":"comment","level":6,"id":"c-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-12T18:51:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-09-18T23:10:00.000Z","author":"Wolfdog","type":"comment","level":7,"id":"c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:10:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-12T20:20:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]}]}]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z","author":"Peter238","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z","author":"Wolfdog","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:36:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2015-09-18T23:55:00.000Z","author":"Peter238","type":"comment","level":3,"id":"c-Peter238-2015-09-18T23:55:00.000Z-Wolfdog-2015-09-18T23:42:00.000Z","replies":[]}]}]},{"timestamp":"2015-09-20T03:36:00.000Z","author":"Ajd","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Ajd-2015-09-20T03:36:00.000Z-Tensing_vs._raising","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z","replies":[{"timestamp":"2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z","author":"2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-2A02:2C40:0:A001:B8E4:4E56:AD82:2ED8-2016-06-22T10:23:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?","replies":[]},{"timestamp":"2019-09-27T09:03:00.000Z","author":"46.114.36.90","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-46.114.36.90-2019-09-27T09:03:00.000Z-In_Dutch,_tense_vowels_are_not_longer_in_duration?","replies":[]}]},{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-100.34.46.136-20240106190300","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Contradiction-20240106190300","replies":[{"timestamp":"20240106190300","author":"100.34.46.136","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-100.34.46.136-20240106190300-Contradiction","replies":[]}]}],"wgPageParseReport":{"discussiontools":{"limitreport-timeusage":"0.017"},"limitreport":{"cputime":"0.228","walltime":"0.292","ppvisitednodes":{"value":796,"limit":1000000},"postexpandincludesize":{"value":22710,"limit":2097152},"templateargumentsize":{"value":2265,"limit":2097152},"expansiondepth":{"value":9,"limit":100},"expensivefunctioncount":{"value":5,"limit":500},"unstrip-depth":{"value":0,"limit":20},"unstrip-size":{"value":11959,"limit":5000000},"entityaccesscount":{"value":0,"limit":400},"timingprofile":["100.00% 235.453 1 -total"," 63.59% 149.715 1 Template:WikiProject_banner_shell"," 35.73% 84.134 1 Template:WikiProject_Linguistics"," 18.00% 42.391 24 Template:IPA"," 10.81% 25.459 1 Template:Archivebox"," 5.25% 12.350 7 Template:Angbr"," 3.88% 9.129 7 Template:Nowrap"," 3.32% 7.812 1 Template:Th/abp"," 3.15% 7.418 4 Template:Replyto"," 1.78% 4.185 1 Template:If_empty"]},"scribunto":{"limitreport-timeusage":{"value":"0.138","limit":"10.000"},"limitreport-memusage":{"value":3624394,"limit":52428800}},"cachereport":{"origin":"mw-web.codfw.main-694cf4987f-tb9qw","timestamp":"20241125233246","ttl":864000,"transientcontent":true}}});});</script> </body> </html>