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href="#Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Including King in Wikilinks, Manual of Style</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Why_Curtmantle?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Why_Curtmantle?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Why Curtmantle?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Why_Curtmantle?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Time_immemorial" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Time_immemorial"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Time immemorial</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Time_immemorial-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Location_of_death" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Location_of_death"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Location of death</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Location_of_death-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Henry's son: William IX of Poitiers?</span> </div> </a> <span 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padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Talk:Henry II of England/" name="prefix"/> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table id="bre" class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-style" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/50px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/75px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/100px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is <b>written in <a href="/wiki/British_English" title="British English">British English</a></b>, which has its own spelling conventions (<i>colour</i>, <i>travelled</i>, <i>centre</i>, <i>defence</i>, <i>artefact</i>, <i>analyse</i>) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other <a href="/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_English" title="List of dialects of English">varieties of English</a>. According to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">relevant style guide</a>, this should not be changed without <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Levels_of_consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">broad consensus</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1135653291">@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .article-history{min-width:80%}}</style><table class="article-history tmbox tmbox-notice"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Featured_article_star.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Featured article"><img alt="Featured article" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/50px-Featured_article_star.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/75px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/100px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="180"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>Henry II of England</b> is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles" title="Wikipedia:Featured articles">featured article</a>; it (or a previous version of it) has been <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Henry_II_of_England/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Henry II of England/archive1">identified</a></b> as one of the best articles produced by the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedians" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedians">Wikipedia community</a>. Even so, if you can update or improve it, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold" title="Wikipedia:Be bold">please do so</a>.</td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Main Page trophy"><img alt="Main Page trophy" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg/30px-Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="27" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg/45px-Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/80/Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg/60px-Wikipedia-logo-v2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="103" data-file-height="94"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Today%27s_featured_article/August_8,_2023" title="Wikipedia:Today's featured article/August 8, 2023">Today's featured article</a> on August 8, 2023.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="width:100%"><table class="article-history-milestones mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="width:100%;font-size:90%"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" style="font-size:110%"><span style="float:left"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_date.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="On this day..."><img alt="On this day..." src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/20px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/30px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/40px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span></span> Article milestones</th></tr><tr style="text-align:left"><th>Date</th><th>Process</th><th>Result</th></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_II_of_England&oldid=482021363">March 17, 2012</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England/GA1" title="Talk:Henry II of England/GA1">Good article nominee</a></b></td><td>Listed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_II_of_England&oldid=494442062">May 27, 2012</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Henry_II_of_England" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Henry II of England">WikiProject A-class review</a></b></td><td>Approved</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_II_of_England&oldid=1150234147">April 18, 2023</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Henry_II_of_England/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Peer review/Henry II of England/archive1">Peer review</a></b></td><td>Reviewed</td></tr><tr><td><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Henry_II_of_England&oldid=1160736883">June 18, 2023</a></span></td><td><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Henry_II_of_England/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Henry II of England/archive1">Featured article candidate</a></b></td><td>Promoted</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="width:100%"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_date.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="On this day..."><img alt="On this day..." src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/20px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/30px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/40px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span> Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Main_Page" title="Main Page">Main Page</a> in the <i>"<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries" title="Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries">On this day...</a>"</i> column on <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/258928166" title="Special:PermanentLink/258928166">December 19, 2008</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/332660097" title="Special:PermanentLink/332660097">December 19, 2009</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/528819636" title="Special:PermanentLink/528819636">December 19, 2012</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/586770053" title="Special:PermanentLink/586770053">December 19, 2013</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/638795556" title="Special:PermanentLink/638795556">December 19, 2014</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/695613686" title="Special:PermanentLink/695613686">December 19, 2015</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/874497506" title="Special:PermanentLink/874497506">December 19, 2018</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/931607713" title="Special:PermanentLink/931607713">December 19, 2019</a>, <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1060919032" title="Special:PermanentLink/1060919032">December 19, 2021</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1128022219" title="Special:PermanentLink/1128022219">December 19, 2022</a>.</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">Current status: <b>Featured article</b></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1243927654">.mw-parser-output .banner-shell{border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:4px}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-header{text-align:center;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output 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//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/P_vip.svg/55px-P_vip.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1911" data-file-height="1944"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Biography" title="Portal:Biography">Biography portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography">WikiProject Biography</a></b>, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Members">join the project</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography">contribute to the discussion</a>. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Biography/doc" title="Template:WikiProject Biography/doc">documentation</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Biography</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Biography</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">biography articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Swords.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/25px-Swords.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/38px-Swords.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Swords.svg/50px-Swords.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">the military biography work group</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_biography_(military)_articles" title="Category:High-importance biography (military) articles">High-importance</a>).</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:A_coloured_voting_box.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/01/A_coloured_voting_box.svg/25px-A_coloured_voting_box.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/01/A_coloured_voting_box.svg/38px-A_coloured_voting_box.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/01/A_coloured_voting_box.svg/50px-A_coloured_voting_box.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="160" data-file-height="160"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Politics_and_government" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Politics and government">the politics and government work group</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_biography_(politics_and_government)_articles" title="Category:Top-importance biography (politics and government) articles">Top-importance</a>).</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:CrownForShield.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/CrownForShield.svg/23px-CrownForShield.svg.png" decoding="async" width="23" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/CrownForShield.svg/36px-CrownForShield.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/CrownForShield.svg/47px-CrownForShield.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="77" data-file-height="82"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Royalty_and_Nobility" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Royalty and Nobility">WikiProject Royalty and Nobility</a></b> (assessed as <a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_biography_(royalty)_articles" title="Category:Top-importance biography (royalty) articles">Top-importance</a>).</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Earth_core_icon.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Earth_core_icon.png/25px-Earth_core_icon.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Earth_core_icon.png 1.5x" data-file-width="28" data-file-height="28"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article is listed on the project's <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Core_biographies" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Core biographies">core biographies</a></b> page.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_English_flag.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Nuvola_English_flag.svg/25px-Nuvola_English_flag.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Nuvola_English_flag.svg/38px-Nuvola_English_flag.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Nuvola_English_flag.svg/50px-Nuvola_English_flag.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="60" data-file-height="60"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_England" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject England">England</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-high">High‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_English_flag.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Nuvola_English_flag.svg/80px-Nuvola_English_flag.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="80" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Nuvola_English_flag.svg/120px-Nuvola_English_flag.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/Nuvola_English_flag.svg/160px-Nuvola_English_flag.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="60" data-file-height="60"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/32px-Flag_of_England.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="19" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/48px-Flag_of_England.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/be/Flag_of_England.svg/64px-Flag_of_England.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="480"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:England" title="Portal:England">England portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_England" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject England">WikiProject England</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/England" title="England">England</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_England" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject England">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">England</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject England</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject England</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">England-related articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-high"><a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_England-related_articles" title="Category:High-importance England-related articles">High</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>High-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_England/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject England/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/15px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg" decoding="async" width="15" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/23px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/31px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1144" data-file-height="1847"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle_Ages" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages">Middle Ages</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-top">Top‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/50px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg" decoding="async" width="50" height="81" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/75px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg/100px-Les_Tr%C3%A8s_Riches_Heures_du_duc_de_Berry_mars.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1144" data-file-height="1847"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239009302"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG/28px-The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG/42px-The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG/56px-The_Metropolitan_M_Stamp.PNG 2x" data-file-width="267" data-file-height="267"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Middle_Ages" title="Portal:Middle Ages">Middle Ages portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle_Ages" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages">WikiProject Middle Ages</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/The_Middle_Ages" class="mw-redirect" title="The Middle Ages">the Middle Ages</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Middle_Ages" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Middle Ages">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Middle Ages</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Middle Ages</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Middle Ages articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-top"><a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_Middle_Ages_articles" title="Category:Top-importance Middle Ages articles">Top</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Top-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle_Ages/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:ERoy.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/ERoy.png/33px-ERoy.png" decoding="async" width="33" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/ERoy.png/51px-ERoy.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/ERoy.png/67px-ERoy.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="300"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_English_Royalty" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject English Royalty">English Royalty</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-top">Top‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:ERoy.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/ERoy.png/80px-ERoy.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="60" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/ERoy.png/120px-ERoy.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/21/ERoy.png/160px-ERoy.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="300"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_English_Royalty" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject English Royalty">WikiProject English Royalty</a></b>. For more information, visit the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_English_Royalty" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject English Royalty">project page</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">English Royalty</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject English Royalty</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject English Royalty</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">English royalty articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-top"><a href="/wiki/Category:Top-importance_English_royalty_articles" title="Category:Top-importance English royalty articles">Top</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Top-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256394742"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/25px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/38px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">Biography</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/British_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/British military history task force">British</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/European_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/European military history task force">European</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Medieval_warfare_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Medieval warfare task force">Medieval</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles"><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><span title="This article has passed an A-Class review."><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Symbol_a_class.svg/19px-Symbol_a_class.svg.png" decoding="async" width="19" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Symbol_a_class.svg/29px-Symbol_a_class.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Symbol_a_class.svg/39px-Symbol_a_class.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span></span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/75px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/100px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history WikiProject</a></b>. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Open_tasks" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Open tasks">list of open tasks</a>. To use this banner, please see the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Template:WikiProject Military history">full instructions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Military history</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">military history articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Featured_article_star.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/45px-Featured_article_star.svg.png" decoding="async" width="45" height="45" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Featured_article_star.svg/68px-Featured_article_star.svg.png 1.5x, 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//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/24/Crystal_personal.svg/60px-Crystal_personal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="70" data-file-height="70"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Military" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Military">Military biography task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_(since_1837).svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg/26px-Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg.png" decoding="async" width="26" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg/39px-Arms_of_the_United_Kingdom_%28since_1837%29.svg.png 1.5x, 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//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Europe_satellite_globe.jpg/68px-Europe_satellite_globe.jpg 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="704"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/European_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/European military history task force">European military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg/25px-Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg" decoding="async" width="25" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg/37px-Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg/49px-Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2024" data-file-height="2464"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Medieval_warfare_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Medieval warfare task force">Medieval warfare task force</a> (c. 500 – c. 1500)</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Additional information:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:50px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td style="background:#66ffff"><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_a_class.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Note icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Symbol_a_class.svg/17px-Symbol_a_class.svg.png" decoding="async" width="17" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Symbol_a_class.svg/26px-Symbol_a_class.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Symbol_a_class.svg/35px-Symbol_a_class.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article <span style="font-weight:bold"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Henry_II_of_England" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Henry II of England">has passed</a></span> an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/A-Class" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/A-Class">A-Class review</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proposed_trimmed_lead" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proposed_trimmed_lead-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proposed_trimmed_lead-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"></span>Proposed trimmed lead<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proposed_trimmed_lead-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Proposed trimmed lead"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z-Proposed_trimmed_lead"></span>The lead is bloated and rambling. Much is a re-hash of what appears in the main body. It needs to be much tighter. I submit the following alternative: </p><p><br/> <b>Henry II</b> (5 March 1133 – 6 July 1189), also known as <b>Henry Curtmantle</b>, <b>Henry FitzEmpress</b> or <b>Henry Plantagenet</b>, was <a href="/wiki/Kingdom_of_England" title="Kingdom of England">King of England</a> from October 1154 until his death, <a href="/wiki/Lordship_of_Ireland" title="Lordship of Ireland">Lord of Ireland</a> (1171–1189), <a href="/wiki/Duke_of_Normandy" title="Duke of Normandy">Duke of Normandy</a> (1150-1189), <a href="/wiki/Duke_of_Aquitaine" title="Duke of Aquitaine">Duke of Aquitaine</a> (1152–89, in right of his wife), <a href="/wiki/Counts_and_dukes_of_Anjou" title="Counts and dukes of Anjou">Count of Anjou</a> (1151–1189), <a href="/wiki/Counts_and_Dukes_of_Maine" class="mw-redirect" title="Counts and Dukes of Maine">Count of Maine</a> (1151–1189), <a href="/wiki/County_of_Nantes" title="County of Nantes">Count of Nantes</a> (1158 – 1189). At various times, he exercised control over large parts of <a href="/wiki/Wales" title="Wales">Wales</a> and the <a href="/wiki/Duchy_of_Brittany" title="Duchy of Brittany">Duchy of Brittany</a>. Henry was born in <a href="/wiki/Le_Mans" title="Le Mans">Le Mans</a>, <a href="/wiki/France" title="France">France</a>, the son of <a href="/wiki/Geoffrey_Plantagenet,_Count_of_Anjou" title="Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou">Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou</a> and the <a href="/wiki/Empress_Matilda" title="Empress Matilda">Empress Matilda</a>, who was the daughter of King <a href="/wiki/Henry_I_of_England" title="Henry I of England">Henry I of England</a>. By the age of 14, Henry was actively involved by in his mother's <a href="/wiki/The_Anarchy" title="The Anarchy">efforts to claim the throne of England</a>. With his marriage in 1151 to the wealthy heiress, <a href="/wiki/Eleanor_of_Aquitaine" title="Eleanor of Aquitaine">Eleanor of Aquitaine</a>, he got control of vast estates in south-west France. Henry and Eleanor had eight children. As they grew up, tensions over the future inheritance of the empire began to emerge. He led a military expedition to England in 1153 to further the claims of the Empress. By the terms of the <a href="/wiki/Treaty_of_Wallingford" title="Treaty of Wallingford">Treaty of Wallingford</a>, he inherited the throne of England following the death of <a href="/wiki/Stephen,_King_of_England" title="Stephen, King of England">Stephen, King of England</a> a year later. Henry's legal changes are generally considered to have laid the basis for the <a href="/wiki/English_law" title="English law">English Common Law</a>, while his intervention in Brittany, Wales and Scotland shaped the development of their societies and governmental systems. By 1172, he controlled England, large parts of Wales, the eastern half of Ireland and the western half of France, an area that would later come to be called the <a href="/wiki/Angevin_Empire" title="Angevin Empire">Angevin Empire</a>. During his reign, the powers of the monarchy increased at the expense of the great barons. His achievements were impaired, however, by disputes with the Church, led by the <a href="/wiki/Archbishop_of_Canterbury" title="Archbishop of Canterbury">Archbishop of Canterbury</a>, <a href="/wiki/Thomas_Becket" title="Thomas Becket">Thomas Becket</a> and by revolts within his own family. Henry suppressed rebellions by his sons in 1173 and 1183. Following a further rebellion in 1189, he died at <a href="/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_de_Chinon" title="Château de Chinon">Chinon</a> leaving the throne to his son <a href="/wiki/Richard_I_of_England" title="Richard I of England">Richard</a>. Henry's empire quickly collapsed during the reign of his youngest son <a href="/wiki/John,_King_of_England" title="John, King of England">John</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Laurel_Lodged" title="User:Laurel Lodged">Laurel Lodged</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laurel_Lodged" title="User talk:Laurel Lodged">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z-Proposed_trimmed_lead" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:13, 6 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z-Proposed_trimmed_lead"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z-Proposed_trimmed_lead"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hchc2009-2017-05-06T15:19:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"></span>The current text appears to comply with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LEAD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LEAD">WP:LEAD</a> - were there particular points of concern? <a href="/wiki/User:Hchc2009" title="User:Hchc2009">Hchc2009</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hchc2009" title="User talk:Hchc2009">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Hchc2009-2017-05-06T15:19:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:19, 6 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hchc2009-2017-05-06T15:19:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hchc2009-2017-05-06T15:19:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T16:36:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-06T15:19:00.000Z"></span>See section 31 above from a few years back.<a href="/wiki/User:Laurel_Lodged" title="User:Laurel Lodged">Laurel Lodged</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laurel_Lodged" title="User talk:Laurel Lodged">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T16:36:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-06T15:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:36, 6 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T16:36:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-06T15:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T16:36:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-06T15:19:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ealdgyth-2017-05-06T15:20:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"></span>The lead is supposed to repeat information in the body of the article. It's a summary of the entire article, and for an article this size, three or four paragraphs are recommended. I'll note that this lead (with minor copyedits) passed through the featured article process and no one there had issues with the size being "bloated". I find it about right, quite honestly. <a href="/wiki/User:Ealdgyth" title="User:Ealdgyth">Ealdgyth</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ealdgyth" title="User talk:Ealdgyth">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Ealdgyth-2017-05-06T15:20:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:20, 6 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ealdgyth-2017-05-06T15:20:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ealdgyth-2017-05-06T15:20:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-06T15:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-08T09:02:00.000Z-Ealdgyth-2017-05-06T15:20:00.000Z"></span>It's not supposed to be a complete re-hash. It should contain the essentials and no more. <a href="/wiki/User:Laurel_Lodged" title="User:Laurel Lodged">Laurel Lodged</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laurel_Lodged" title="User talk:Laurel Lodged">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-08T09:02:00.000Z-Ealdgyth-2017-05-06T15:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:02, 8 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-08T09:02:00.000Z-Ealdgyth-2017-05-06T15:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-08T09:02:00.000Z-Ealdgyth-2017-05-06T15:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-12T12:29:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-08T09:02:00.000Z"></span>The lead contains too much detail for some topics. It largely reproduces what appears later in the main body. That's not what's supposed to happen. <a href="/wiki/User:Laurel_Lodged" title="User:Laurel Lodged">Laurel Lodged</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laurel_Lodged" title="User talk:Laurel Lodged">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-12T12:29:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-08T09:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:29, 12 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-12T12:29:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-08T09:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-12T12:29:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-08T09:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ealdgyth-2017-05-12T12:57:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-12T12:29:00.000Z"></span>The lead, again, is supposed to reproduce the stuff in the main body. It is NOT, per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Comparison_to_the_news-style_lead" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section">Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section#Comparison to the news-style lead</a>, a newspaper style lead. The lead "provides far more information, as its purpose is to summarize the article, not just introduce it." <a href="/wiki/User:Ealdgyth" title="User:Ealdgyth">Ealdgyth</a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ealdgyth" title="User talk:Ealdgyth">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Ealdgyth-2017-05-12T12:57:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-12T12:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:57, 12 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ealdgyth-2017-05-12T12:57:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-12T12:29:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ealdgyth-2017-05-12T12:57:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-12T12:29:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z-Proposed_trimmed_lead"></span>I'd agree with Ealdyth's comment. <a href="/wiki/User:Hchc2009" title="User:Hchc2009">Hchc2009</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hchc2009" title="User talk:Hchc2009">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z-Proposed_trimmed_lead" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:22, 12 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z-Proposed_trimmed_lead"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z-Proposed_trimmed_lead"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-15T10:43:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z"></span>There's a big difference between avoiding newspaper-style headline brevity and outright duplication. "Each word, phrase, and sentence in a lead should be covered by equivalent content in the body of the article, preferably in the same order they appear in the article. The content in the body of the article will usually be longer and more detailed." The current lead violates this guideline. <a href="/wiki/User:Laurel_Lodged" title="User:Laurel Lodged">Laurel Lodged</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Laurel_Lodged" title="User talk:Laurel Lodged">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-15T10:43:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:43, 15 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-15T10:43:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-15T10:43:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ian_Rose-2017-05-15T10:54:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-15T10:43:00.000Z"></span>Examples? Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Ian_Rose" title="User:Ian Rose">Ian Rose</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ian_Rose" title="User talk:Ian Rose">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Ian_Rose-2017-05-15T10:54:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-15T10:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:54, 15 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ian_Rose-2017-05-15T10:54:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-15T10:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ian_Rose-2017-05-15T10:54:00.000Z-Laurel_Lodged-2017-05-15T10:43:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2017-05-15T11:34:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Laurel_Lodged" title="User:Laurel Lodged">Laurel Lodged</a>:</span> The lede as it currently stands is <b>four</b> paragraphs out of nearly <b>eighty</b>; and you think it shold be reduced to <i>one</i>?! It would clearly fail <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LEADLENGTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LEADLENGTH">WP:LEADLENGTH</a>, which states that for articles with over 30,000 characters, 'Three or four paragraphs' is right; this article has >76,000 characters. I give you, QED :) — <a href="/wiki/User:Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi"><span style="color:maroon; text-shadow:#666362 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;"><b>O Fortuna</b></span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi"><span style="color:navy"><sup><i><b> semper crescis, aut decrescis</b></i></sup></span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2017-05-15T11:34:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:34, 15 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2017-05-15T11:34:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2017-05-15T11:34:00.000Z-Hchc2009-2017-05-12T17:22:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-81.108.146.146-20221110210500-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2017-05-15T11:34:00.000Z"></span>Those four paragraphs are massive though, I barely contribute to wikipedia but this lead is a far too unwieldy. Needs a trim. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/81.108.146.146" title="Special:Contributions/81.108.146.146">81.108.146.146</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:81.108.146.146&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:81.108.146.146 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-81.108.146.146-20221110210500-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2017-05-15T11:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 10 November 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-81.108.146.146-20221110210500-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2017-05-15T11:34:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-81.108.146.146-20221110210500-Fortuna_Imperatrix_Mundi-2017-05-15T11:34:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice" data-mw-thread-id="h-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice-2019-06-27T12:53:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice-2019-06-27T12:53:00.000Z"></span>Marriage contrary to feudal practice<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice-2019-06-27T12:53:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Marriage contrary to feudal practice"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Surtsicna-2019-06-27T12:53:00.000Z-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice"></span>According to <a href="/wiki/Henry_II_of_England#Early_reign_(1150–1162)" title="Henry II of England">Henry II of England#Early reign (1150–1162)</a>, Henry's marriage to Eleanor "ran counter to feudal practice". What does this mean? <a href="/wiki/User:Surtsicna" title="User:Surtsicna">Surtsicna</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Surtsicna" title="User talk:Surtsicna">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Surtsicna-2019-06-27T12:53:00.000Z-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:53, 27 June 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Surtsicna-2019-06-27T12:53:00.000Z-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Surtsicna-2019-06-27T12:53:00.000Z-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ezi1234-2020-06-10T22:41:00.000Z-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice"></span>Certainly, the text is not very clear. It refers to the fact that Eleanor and Henry did not request permission for their marriage from the King of France, since they were both vassals. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ezi1234&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ezi1234 (page does not exist)">Ezi1234</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ezi1234&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Ezi1234 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Ezi1234-2020-06-10T22:41:00.000Z-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:41, 10 June 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ezi1234-2020-06-10T22:41:00.000Z-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ezi1234-2020-06-10T22:41:00.000Z-Marriage_contrary_to_feudal_practice"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Angevin_kings_of_England" data-mw-thread-id="h-Angevin_kings_of_England-2021-03-23T12:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Angevin_kings_of_England-2021-03-23T12:55:00.000Z"></span>Angevin kings of England<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Angevin_kings_of_England-2021-03-23T12:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Angevin kings of England"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ashec-2021-03-23T12:55:00.000Z-Angevin_kings_of_England"></span>Hi there. These days I've <a href="https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B6%D1%83%D0%B9%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B8_%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B8" class="extiw" title="ru:Анжуйские короли Англии">translated into Russian</a> an enwiki article <a href="/wiki/Angevin_kings_of_England" title="Angevin kings of England">Angevin kings of England</a>. Immediately a was kicked around and the translation was <a href="https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%8F:%D0%9A_%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%8E/17_%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0_2021#Анжуйские_короли_Англии" class="extiw" title="ru:Википедия:К удалению/17 марта 2021">nominated for deletion</a>. The core of disagreement is: a) <i>Angevin kings</i> are simply another name for <i>Plantagenets</i> and as such do not deserve separate article; b) <i>Angevin kings of England</i> are a separate historical entity and the article is valid. </p><p>In this respect I would like to know the basis of calling <i>Henry II of England</i> a <i>Plantagenet</i> keeping in mind that the Angevin kings of England reads (NB: the article is marked as <i>Good</i>) </p> <blockquote><p>Historians<sup class="noprint Inline-Template" style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Unsupported_attributions" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch"><span title="The material near this tag possibly uses too-vague attribution or weasel words. (September 2020)">who?</span></a></i>]</sup> use the period of <a href="/wiki/Louis_VIII_of_France" title="Louis VIII of France">Prince Louis's</a> invasion to mark the end of the Angevin period and the beginning of the <a href="/wiki/House_of_Plantagenet" title="House of Plantagenet">Plantagenet</a> dynasty.<sup class="noprint Inline-Template Template-Fact" style="white-space:nowrap;">[<i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" title="Wikipedia:Citation needed"><span title="This claim needs references to reliable sources. (September 2020)">citation needed</span></a></i>]</sup></p></blockquote> <p>and </p> <blockquote> <p><a href="/wiki/Richard_of_York,_3rd_Duke_of_York" title="Richard of York, 3rd Duke of York">Richard of York</a> adopted "Plantagenet" as a family name for himself and his descendants during the 15th century. <i>Plantegenest</i> </p> </blockquote> <p>So: where actually had Angevins ended and Plantagenets started, if ever? Pls advise. From Russia with love. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Ashec&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Ashec (page does not exist)">Ashec</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ashec" title="User talk:Ashec">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Ashec-2021-03-23T12:55:00.000Z-Angevin_kings_of_England" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:55, 23 March 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ashec-2021-03-23T12:55:00.000Z-Angevin_kings_of_England"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ashec-2021-03-23T12:55:00.000Z-Angevin_kings_of_England"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?-2021-03-24T01:36:00.000Z"><span id="Co-ruler_of_what.2C_exactly.2C_and_with_whom.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?-2021-03-24T01:36:00.000Z"></span>Co-ruler of what, exactly, and with whom?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?-2021-03-24T01:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Co-ruler of what, exactly, and with whom?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hedles-2021-03-24T01:36:00.000Z-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?"></span>Third paragraph of the lead begins: </p> <dl><dd>"Henry and Eleanor had eight children—three daughters and five sons. Three of his sons would be king, though Henry the Young King was named his father's co-ruler rather than a stand-alone king."</dd></dl> <p>Earlier in the lead, we read, </p> <dl><dd>"Henry became Count of Anjou and Maine upon the death of his father, Count Geoffrey V, in 1151. His marriage in 1152 to Eleanor of Aquitaine, whose marriage to Louis VII had recently been annulled, made him Duke of Aquitaine."</dd></dl> <p>So, Henry II's father was not a king. And therefore not king of England. He was Geoffrey Plantagenet, Count of Anjou. </p><p>The statement about Henry's co-rulership, therefore, in my opinion, needs re-wording to explain exactly what it means. Was Henry named co-ruler of Anjou or co-ruler (co-king) of England in Matilda's place (for whom, according to the text above, Henry II, her son, had agreed "a peace treaty [with Stephen of Blois] after Henry[II]'s military expedition to England in 1153, and Henry inherited the kingdom on Stephen's death a year later") and, if so, with whom as the other co-monarch of England? </p><p>Was this "inheritance" the co-rulership spoken of later or was it co-rulership of Anjou, while Henry [II] inherited full title as king of England upon Stephen's death? <a href="/wiki/User:Hedles" title="User:Hedles">Hedles</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hedles" title="User talk:Hedles">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Hedles-2021-03-24T01:36:00.000Z-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:36, 24 March 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hedles-2021-03-24T01:36:00.000Z-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hedles-2021-03-24T01:36:00.000Z-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-31.50.147.32-2022-01-02T19:18:00.000Z-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?"></span>I think you are misunderstanding this. Henry, son of Geoffrey V, inherited the throne of England from his uncle Stephen on Stephen's death after the Treaty of Westminster(?) established that he (Henry, son of Geoffrey V) was the heir to the throne of England, meaning that he became Henry II of England. The first statement you mention refers not to Henry II but his son with Eleanor of Aquitaine, <a href="/wiki/Henry_the_Young_King" title="Henry the Young King">Henry the Young King</a>. In 1170 Henry II made his son (Henry the Young) co-ruler (along with Henry II himself) of England, Normandy, Anjou and Maine. This is the "co-rulership" referred to in the article. It would be simpler if Henry the Young was just known as "Henry III", but unfortunately he died before his father, so never ruled on his own. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/31.50.147.32" title="Special:Contributions/31.50.147.32">31.50.147.32</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:31.50.147.32&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:31.50.147.32 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-31.50.147.32-2022-01-02T19:18:00.000Z-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 2 January 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-31.50.147.32-2022-01-02T19:18:00.000Z-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-31.50.147.32-2022-01-02T19:18:00.000Z-Co-ruler_of_what,_exactly,_and_with_whom?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="What_is_a_"Mainstream_European"?" data-mw-thread-id="h-What_is_a_"Mainstream_European"?"><span id="What_is_a_.22Mainstream_European.22.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-What_is_a_"Mainstream_European"?"></span>What is a "Mainstream European"?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-What_is_a_"Mainstream_European"?"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: What is a "Mainstream European"?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><i>Mainstream Europeans regarded the Irish as relatively barbarous and backward.[267]</i> <i></i> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style" data-mw-thread-id="h-Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style-2021-08-22T21:12:00.000Z"><span id="Including_King_in_Wikilinks.2C_Manual_of_Style"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style-2021-08-22T21:12:00.000Z"></span>Including King in Wikilinks, Manual of Style<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style-2021-08-22T21:12:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Including King in Wikilinks, Manual of Style"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jeournat-2021-08-22T21:12:00.000Z-Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style"></span>Hi. <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_the_Manual_of_Style/linking_quiz" title="Help:Introduction to the Manual of Style/linking quiz">Help:Introduction to the Manual of Style/linking quiz</a> in "Donnchadh, Earl of Carrick" example, it says '<i>King', with upper-case K, is part of the title "King Henry II of England": it is awkward to see part of the title black and part of it blue.</i> So I have searched all "King" words and found three. (King) David I of Scotland in <a href="/wiki/Henry_II_of_England#Early_years_(1133–1149)" title="Henry II of England">Early years (1133–1149)</a> section. (King) Malcolm of Scotland in <a href="/wiki/Henry_II_of_England#Reconstruction_of_royal_government" title="Henry II of England">"Reconstruction of royal government"</a> section. (King) William of Scotland in <a href="/wiki/Henry_II_of_England#Great_Revolt_(1173–1174)" title="Henry II of England">Great Revolt (1173–1174)</a> section. <a href="/wiki/User:Jeournat" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jeournat">Jeournat</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jeournat&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Jeournat (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Jeournat-2021-08-22T21:12:00.000Z-Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 22 August 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jeournat-2021-08-22T21:12:00.000Z-Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jeournat-2021-08-22T21:12:00.000Z-Including_King_in_Wikilinks,_Manual_of_Style"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Why_Curtmantle?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Why_Curtmantle?-20230117141300"><span id="Why_Curtmantle.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Why_Curtmantle?-20230117141300"></span>Why Curtmantle?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Why_Curtmantle?-20230117141300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Why Curtmantle?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DuncanHill-20230117141300-Why_Curtmantle?"></span>Why is he called Curtmantle? <a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DuncanHill" title="User talk:DuncanHill">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-DuncanHill-20230117141300-Why_Curtmantle?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:13, 17 January 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DuncanHill-20230117141300-Why_Curtmantle?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DuncanHill-20230117141300-Why_Curtmantle?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Serial_Number_54129-20230117143800-DuncanHill-20230117141300"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:DuncanHill" title="User:DuncanHill">DuncanHill</a>:</span> Nickname, presumably based on his fashion tastes; 'Henry Shortcloak'. <i>Cf.</i> <a href="/wiki/Robert_Curthose" title="Robert Curthose">Robert Curthose</a>, son of William the Conqueror. Also, e.g., <i>curtlof</i> (shortbread). Same etymological root, from <a href="/wiki/Old_French" title="Old French">Old French</a> as the modern English <i><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/curt" class="extiw" title="wikt:curt">curt</a></i> (to be curt with smn...), brief or terse. etc. HTH! <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Serial_Number_54129" title="User talk:Serial Number 54129"><span style="color:blue">SN54129</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Serial_Number_54129-20230117143800-DuncanHill-20230117141300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 17 January 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Serial_Number_54129-20230117143800-DuncanHill-20230117141300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Serial_Number_54129-20230117143800-DuncanHill-20230117141300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SorghumBean-20240111033500-Serial_Number_54129-20230117143800"></span>I see that this nickname was removed in the 19 May 2023 change -- why? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:SorghumBean&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:SorghumBean (page does not exist)">SorghumBean</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SorghumBean" title="User talk:SorghumBean">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-SorghumBean-20240111033500-Serial_Number_54129-20230117143800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:35, 11 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SorghumBean-20240111033500-Serial_Number_54129-20230117143800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SorghumBean-20240111033500-Serial_Number_54129-20230117143800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SorghumBean-20240123054800-SorghumBean-20240111033500"></span>Ok, I added it <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:SorghumBean&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:SorghumBean (page does not exist)">SorghumBean</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SorghumBean" title="User talk:SorghumBean">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-SorghumBean-20240123054800-SorghumBean-20240111033500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:48, 23 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SorghumBean-20240123054800-SorghumBean-20240111033500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SorghumBean-20240123054800-SorghumBean-20240111033500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Time_immemorial" data-mw-thread-id="h-Time_immemorial-20230215181200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Time_immemorial-20230215181200"></span>Time immemorial<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Time_immemorial-20230215181200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Time immemorial"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jackiespeel-20230215181200-Time_immemorial"></span>As his reign is linked to the concept of '<a href="/wiki/Time_immemorial" title="Time immemorial">Time immemorial</a> perhaps a mention here? <a href="/wiki/User:Jackiespeel" title="User:Jackiespeel">Jackiespeel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jackiespeel" title="User talk:Jackiespeel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Jackiespeel-20230215181200-Time_immemorial" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:12, 15 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jackiespeel-20230215181200-Time_immemorial"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jackiespeel-20230215181200-Time_immemorial"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Location_of_death" data-mw-thread-id="h-Location_of_death-20230503161800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Location_of_death-20230503161800"></span>Location of death<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Location_of_death-20230503161800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Location of death"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Boncoincoin-20230503161800-Location_of_death"></span>Hello <span class="template-ping">@<a href="/wiki/User:Ealdgyth" title="User:Ealdgyth">Ealdgyth</a>:</span>. OK, "my" source is not reliable. But since this information is worth knowing for any visitor to the fortress (plaque not very visible, nor signposted), I leave it to you to find a source in English that complies with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>. (For your information, a low quality photo can be found on Wikimedia Commons ; the name of the file is : Chateau de Chinon. Site chapelle St Melaine.✝Henry II Plantagenet.jpg). <a href="/wiki/User:Boncoincoin" title="User:Boncoincoin">Boncoincoin</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Boncoincoin" title="User:Boncoincoin">Boncoincoin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Boncoincoin" title="User talk:Boncoincoin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Boncoincoin-20230503161800-Location_of_death" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:18, 3 May 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Boncoincoin-20230503161800-Location_of_death"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Boncoincoin-20230503161800-Location_of_death"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?-20240819230500"><span id="Henry.27s_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?-20240819230500"></span>Henry's son: William IX of Poitiers?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?-20240819230500"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Henry's son: William IX of Poitiers?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Surtsicna-20240819230500-Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?"></span>I am having trouble confirming either the name "William IX" or that the child was <a href="/wiki/Count_of_Poitiers" title="Count of Poitiers">count of Poitiers</a>. Can someone shed some light on this? The contents of the article <a href="/wiki/William_IX,_Count_of_Poitiers" title="William IX, Count of Poitiers">William IX, Count of Poitiers</a> appear to have stayed unchanged for over 20 years. <a href="/wiki/User:Surtsicna" title="User:Surtsicna">Surtsicna</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Surtsicna" title="User talk:Surtsicna">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Henry_II_of_England#c-Surtsicna-20240819230500-Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:05, 19 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Surtsicna-20240819230500-Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Surtsicna-20240819230500-Henry's_son:_William_IX_of_Poitiers?"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&oldid=1241293197">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Henry_II_of_England&oldid=1241293197</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_articles_that_use_British_English" title="Category:Wikipedia articles that use British English">Wikipedia articles that use British English</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_featured_articles" 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