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It's hard to come up with a mass-production SMG that isn't obviously better than a MkII Sten, but the stock Ingrams might make" /> <script type="application/ld+json" class="aioseo-schema"> {"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"BlogPosting","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#blogposting","name":"Sten MkII vs Ingram M10\/9 (w\/ John Keene) - Forgotten Weapons","headline":"Sten MkII vs Ingram M10\/9 (w\/ John Keene)","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/author\/imccollum\/#author"},"publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/#organization"},"image":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/mac-vs-sten-thumb.png","width":958,"height":538},"datePublished":"2024-12-11T06:27:51-07:00","dateModified":"2024-10-07T04:52:24-07:00","inLanguage":"en-US","commentCount":20,"mainEntityOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#webpage"},"isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#webpage"},"articleSection":"Commentary, Submachine Guns, Video, United Kingdom, United States"},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#breadcrumblist","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/#listItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/","nextItem":{"@type":"ListItem","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#listItem","name":"Sten MkII vs Ingram M10\/9 (w\/ John Keene)"}},{"@type":"ListItem","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#listItem","position":2,"name":"Sten MkII vs Ingram M10\/9 (w\/ John Keene)","previousItem":{"@type":"ListItem","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/#listItem","name":"Home"}}]},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/#organization","name":"Forgotten Weapons","description":"Your destination for rare, exotic, and prototype firearms","url":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/author\/imccollum\/#author","url":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/author\/imccollum\/","name":"Ian McCollum","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#authorImage","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/2bd6f705c9795e63ba381545bb4b5164?s=96&d=blank&r=g","width":96,"height":96,"caption":"Ian McCollum"}},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#webpage","url":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/","name":"Sten MkII vs Ingram M10\/9 (w\/ John Keene) - Forgotten Weapons","description":"https:\/\/youtu.be\/Po2zPef-WJY If you had to pick one, would you take a Sten MkII or an Ingram M10\/9? 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It's hard to come up with a mass-production SMG that isn't obviously better than a MkII Sten, but the stock Ingrams might make","inLanguage":"en-US","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/#website"},"breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#breadcrumblist"},"author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/author\/imccollum\/#author"},"creator":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/author\/imccollum\/#author"},"image":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/10\/mac-vs-sten-thumb.png","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#mainImage","width":958,"height":538},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene\/#mainImage"},"datePublished":"2024-12-11T06:27:51-07:00","dateModified":"2024-10-07T04:52:24-07:00"},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/","name":"Forgotten Weapons","description":"Your destination for rare, exotic, and prototype firearms","inLanguage":"en-US","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.forgottenweapons.com\/#organization"}}]} </script>  <link rel='dns-prefetch' href='//stats.wp.com' /> <link rel='dns-prefetch' href='//fonts.googleapis.com' /> <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Forgotten Weapons » Feed" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/feed/" /> <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Forgotten Weapons » Comments Feed" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/comments/feed/" /> <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="Forgotten Weapons » Sten MkII vs Ingram M10/9 (w/ John Keene) Comments Feed" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/feed/" /> <style id='wp-emoji-styles-inline-css' type='text/css'> img.wp-smiley, img.emoji { display: inline !important; border: none !important; box-shadow: none !important; height: 1em !important; width: 1em !important; margin: 0 0.07em !important; vertical-align: -0.1em !important; background: none !important; padding: 0 !important; } </style> <link rel='preload' href='https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-includes/css/dist/block-library/style.min.css?ver=ed3884399ba2f95d5143fbefd34d8bf3' data-rocket-async="style" as="style" onload="this.onload=null;this.rel='stylesheet'" onerror="this.removeAttribute('data-rocket-async')" type='text/css' media='all' /> <link rel='preload' href='https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-includes/js/mediaelement/mediaelementplayer-legacy.min.css?ver=4.2.17' data-rocket-async="style" as="style" onload="this.onload=null;this.rel='stylesheet'" onerror="this.removeAttribute('data-rocket-async')" type='text/css' media='all' /> <link rel='preload' href='https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-includes/js/mediaelement/wp-mediaelement.min.css?ver=ed3884399ba2f95d5143fbefd34d8bf3' data-rocket-async="style" as="style" onload="this.onload=null;this.rel='stylesheet'" onerror="this.removeAttribute('data-rocket-async')" type='text/css' media='all' /> <style id='jetpack-sharing-buttons-style-inline-css' type='text/css'> .jetpack-sharing-buttons__services-list{display:flex;flex-direction:row;flex-wrap:wrap;gap:0;list-style-type:none;margin:5px;padding:0}.jetpack-sharing-buttons__services-list.has-small-icon-size{font-size:12px}.jetpack-sharing-buttons__services-list.has-normal-icon-size{font-size:16px}.jetpack-sharing-buttons__services-list.has-large-icon-size{font-size:24px}.jetpack-sharing-buttons__services-list.has-huge-icon-size{font-size:36px}@media print{.jetpack-sharing-buttons__services-list{display:none!important}}.editor-styles-wrapper .wp-block-jetpack-sharing-buttons{gap:0;padding-inline-start:0}ul.jetpack-sharing-buttons__services-list.has-background{padding:1.25em 2.375em} </style> <style id='classic-theme-styles-inline-css' type='text/css'> /*! 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class="mh-breadcrumb" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/BreadcrumbList"><span itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com" title="Home" itemprop="item"><span itemprop="name">Home</span></a><meta itemprop="position" content="1" /></span><span class="mh-breadcrumb-delimiter"><i class="fa fa-angle-right"></i></span><span itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/commentary/" itemprop="item" title="Commentary"><span itemprop="name">Commentary</span></a><meta itemprop="position" content="2" /></span><span class="mh-breadcrumb-delimiter"><i class="fa fa-angle-right"></i></span>Sten MkII vs Ingram M10/9 (w/ John Keene)</nav> <article id="post-32683" class="post-32683 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail hentry category-commentary category-smg category-video tag-united-kingdom tag-united-states"> <header class="entry-header clearfix"><h1 class="entry-title">Sten MkII vs Ingram M10/9 (w/ John Keene)</h1><div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2024/12/">December 11, 2024</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/commentary/" rel="category tag">Commentary</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/machine-guns/smg/" rel="category tag">Submachine Guns</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >20</a></span> </div> </header> <div class="entry-content clearfix"><p><iframe title="Sten MkII vs Ingram M10/9 (w/ John Keene)" width="678" height="381" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Po2zPef-WJY?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe></p> <p>If you had to pick one, would you take a Sten MkII or an Ingram M10/9? This applies specifically to the guns in their original factory configurations; no Lage products allowed! It’s hard to come up with a mass-production SMG that isn’t obviously better than a MkII Sten, but the stock Ingrams might make the cut…the MAC is a more compact package, but has even worse handling than the Sten in some ways (which is a remarkable achievement!). 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href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/allen-wheelock-lipfire-navy-revolver-at-ria/" title="Allen & Wheelock Lipfire Navy Revolver at RIA"><img width="326" height="183" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb.jpg" class="attachment-mh-magazine-medium size-mh-magazine-medium wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" fetchpriority="high" srcset="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb.jpg 1280w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb-150x84.jpg 150w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb-450x253.jpg 450w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb-1024x576.jpg 1024w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb-400x225.jpg 400w" sizes="(max-width: 326px) 100vw, 326px" data-attachment-id="15353" data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/allen-wheelock-lipfire-navy-revolver-at-ria/lipfire-thumb/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb.jpg" data-orig-size="1280,720" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="lipfire thumb" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb-450x253.jpg" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/lipfire-thumb-1024x576.jpg" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Revolver </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/allen-wheelock-lipfire-navy-revolver-at-ria/" title="Allen & Wheelock Lipfire Navy Revolver at RIA" rel="bookmark"> Allen & Wheelock Lipfire Navy Revolver at RIA </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2015/04/">April 13, 2015</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/handgun/revolver/" rel="category tag">Revolver</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/allen-wheelock-lipfire-navy-revolver-at-ria/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >12</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>Not all companies responded in the same way to the development of cartridge revolvers and the Rollin White patent. Allen & Wheelock, for example, decided to simply ignore the patent and make revolvers for their <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/allen-wheelock-lipfire-navy-revolver-at-ria/" title="Allen & Wheelock Lipfire Navy Revolver at RIA">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/allen-wheelock-lipfire-navy-revolver-at-ria/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-15351" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/allen-wheelock-lipfire-navy-revolver-at-ria/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-15351" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/allen-wheelock-lipfire-navy-revolver-at-ria/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> <div class="mh-col-1-3 mh-posts-grid-col clearfix"> <article class="post-14672 format-standard mh-posts-grid-item clearfix"> <figure class="mh-posts-grid-thumb"> <a class="mh-thumb-icon mh-thumb-icon-small-mobile" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m3-infrared-sniper-carbine-at-ria/" title="M3 Infrared Sniper Carbine at RIA"><img width="326" height="245" class="mh-image-placeholder" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/themes/mh-magazine/images/placeholder-medium.png" alt="No Picture" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Accessories </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m3-infrared-sniper-carbine-at-ria/" title="M3 Infrared Sniper Carbine at RIA" rel="bookmark"> M3 Infrared Sniper Carbine at RIA </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2014/11/">November 19, 2014</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/accessories/" rel="category tag">Accessories</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/semiauto-rifles/" rel="category tag">Semiauto Rifles</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/sniper-rifles/" rel="category tag">Sniper Rifles</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m3-infrared-sniper-carbine-at-ria/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >32</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>The first US military night vision system used in active combat was the T3 Carbine system – an infrared light-amplifying scope and IR floodlight mounted on an M1 Carbine. About 150 of these were used <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m3-infrared-sniper-carbine-at-ria/" title="M3 Infrared Sniper Carbine at RIA">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m3-infrared-sniper-carbine-at-ria/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-14672" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m3-infrared-sniper-carbine-at-ria/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-14672" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/m3-infrared-sniper-carbine-at-ria/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> <div class="mh-col-1-3 mh-posts-grid-col clearfix"> <article class="post-14592 format-standard mh-posts-grid-item clearfix"> <figure class="mh-posts-grid-thumb"> <a class="mh-thumb-icon mh-thumb-icon-small-mobile" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/" title="Winchester Lee Navy Safety?"><img width="212" height="245" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155.jpg" class="attachment-mh-magazine-medium size-mh-magazine-medium wp-post-image" alt="Exploded 1895 Lee Navy barrel" decoding="async" loading="lazy" srcset="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155.jpg 1754w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155-129x150.jpg 129w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155-388x450.jpg 388w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155-884x1024.jpg 884w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155-400x463.jpg 400w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 212px) 100vw, 212px" data-attachment-id="14599" data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/chamber-and-case/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155.jpg" data-orig-size="1754,2031" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":""}" data-image-title="Exploded 1895 Lee Navy barrel" data-image-description="<p>Exploded 1895 Lee Navy barrel</p> " data-image-caption="<p>Chamber, with cartridge case still in place. Note that the brass has blown out exactly in line with the unsupported section at the extractor cutout.</p> " data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155-388x450.jpg" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/chamber-and-case-e1415058355155-884x1024.jpg" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Bolt Action Rifles </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/" title="Winchester Lee Navy Safety?" rel="bookmark"> Winchester Lee Navy Safety? </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2014/11/">November 4, 2014</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/bolt-action/" rel="category tag">Bolt Action Rifles</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/commentary/" rel="category tag">Commentary</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >69</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>It appears that a fellow in Pennsylvania had an 1895 Lee Navy rifle explode in his hands this past Sunday while out shooting. This sort of thing happens from time to time with all sorts <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/" title="Winchester Lee Navy Safety?">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-14592" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-14592" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/winchester-lee-navy-safety/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> </div> </section> <div id="comments" class="mh-comments-wrap"> <h4 class="mh-widget-title"> <span class="mh-widget-title-inner"> 20 Comments </span> </h4> <ol class="commentlist mh-comment-list"> <li id="comment-4663873" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663873" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/93de285fe59a09dfe074b8485e7b2a6f?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/93de285fe59a09dfe074b8485e7b2a6f?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Dan</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663873"><time datetime="2024-12-11T06:52:28-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 6:52 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>sten! I’ve shot both stock and it’s more easily controllable</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663873" data-commentid="4663873" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663873" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Dan" aria-label="Reply to Dan">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4703689" class="comment odd alt depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4703689" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/901fadd3e4b2eb8bc0e5baee17b0daf7?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/901fadd3e4b2eb8bc0e5baee17b0daf7?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">jerry zaft</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4703689"><time datetime="2025-02-08T12:20:30-07:00">February 8, 2025 at 12:20 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>When getting armed for a Job in ME back in 1984 I was given a choice of an ex Vietnam era M16 in 556 or an UZI 9mm ,,, Most people took the UZI for convenience . I knew how to shoot both , but opted for the M16 for accuracy and range ..Every sub machine gun i have shot you need to aim low and short burst as they rise you can stitch the target …These days Sub guns are only much use as PDW of last resort or for gangsters</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4703689" data-commentid="4703689" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4703689" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to jerry zaft" aria-label="Reply to jerry zaft">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4663877" class="comment even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663877" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663877"><time datetime="2024-12-11T07:00:15-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 7:00 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Regarding magazine loading keep in mind that STEN magazine was supposed to be used in conjunction with <b>FILLER to facilitate loading, see <a href="https://youtu.be/1-n-NwjRm5w?t=180" rel="nofollow ugc">https://youtu.be/1-n-NwjRm5w?t=180</a> Was similar device offered for Ingram, if yes how much years after introduction of magazine itself?</b></p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663877" data-commentid="4663877" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663877" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4663889" class="comment odd alt thread-even depth-1 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663889" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9c6ce505da95317ebc1c57848e8328b6?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9c6ce505da95317ebc1c57848e8328b6?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Bart</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663889"><time datetime="2024-12-11T07:16:36-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 7:16 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>The Sten.</p> <p>If you run out of ammo, or the gun stops working, you can use it as a club.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663889" data-commentid="4663889" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663889" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Bart" aria-label="Reply to Bart">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4663892" class="comment even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663892" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9c6ce505da95317ebc1c57848e8328b6?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9c6ce505da95317ebc1c57848e8328b6?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Bart</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663892"><time datetime="2024-12-11T07:20:31-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 7:20 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Links to add-ons from Richard Lague(sp?)?</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663892" data-commentid="4663892" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663892" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Bart" aria-label="Reply to Bart">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4663955" class="comment odd alt depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663955" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/809e87f43e252e6c91f7ea29fce83e7f?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/809e87f43e252e6c91f7ea29fce83e7f?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Don L</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663955"><time datetime="2024-12-11T09:27:15-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 9:27 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Max-11.com</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663955" data-commentid="4663955" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663955" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Don L" aria-label="Reply to Don L">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4663965" class="comment even depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663965" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/a78fc4984e3473b4e23e25a874c8554a?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/a78fc4984e3473b4e23e25a874c8554a?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn"><a href="https://twoalpha.blogspot.com" class="url" rel="ugc external nofollow">Matisse Enzer</a></b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663965"><time datetime="2024-12-11T09:37:28-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 9:37 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Lage manufacturing: <a href="https://www.max-11.com/M11.php" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.max-11.com/M11.php</a></p> <p>See also: <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ians-customs-lage-max11a1-15-light-machine-gun/" rel="ugc">https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ians-customs-lage-max11a1-15-light-machine-gun/</a></p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663965" data-commentid="4663965" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663965" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Matisse Enzer" aria-label="Reply to Matisse Enzer">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4663941" class="comment odd alt thread-even depth-1 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663941" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5548100424c1d2cfcafc89b8dd88c3f4?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/5548100424c1d2cfcafc89b8dd88c3f4?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn"><a href="http://www.mgmllcfirearms.com" class="url" rel="ugc external nofollow">Michael</a></b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663941"><time datetime="2024-12-11T08:52:45-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 8:52 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Choose the Sten Mark II if you value historical significance, simplicity, and reliability. Opt for the Ingram MAC-11 if you need a modern, compact weapon with a high rate of fire for tactical applications. Your choice should ultimately align with your specific needs and preferences.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663941" data-commentid="4663941" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663941" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Michael" aria-label="Reply to Michael">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4663960" class="comment even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663960" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/809e87f43e252e6c91f7ea29fce83e7f?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/809e87f43e252e6c91f7ea29fce83e7f?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Don L</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663960"><time datetime="2024-12-11T09:31:06-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 9:31 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I fit a Suomi butt stock and made a wooden forearm for my STEN. Now it’s super comfortable to shoot. Sometimes problems just need a little bit of work to fix.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663960" data-commentid="4663960" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663960" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Don L" aria-label="Reply to Don L">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4663971" class="comment odd alt depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663971" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663971"><time datetime="2024-12-11T09:48:40-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 9:48 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>“(…)a little bit of work(…)”<br /> If you need STENoid with better ergonomics at cost of being more work-requiring to make then use ROFSTEN <a href="https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/ROFSTEN" rel="nofollow ugc">https://guns.fandom.com/wiki/ROFSTEN</a></p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663971" data-commentid="4663971" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663971" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4663996" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663996" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/1589add60474c41fd76d2504289d309f?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/1589add60474c41fd76d2504289d309f?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Robert DeMarchi</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663996"><time datetime="2024-12-11T10:36:19-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 10:36 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>In defense of MAC, a modified version was maybe the 6th or 7th subgun i ever shot.<br /> Had a wooden Uzi stock, a faux silencer fore end and some severe rate reduction.<br /> Was actually very controllable, easy to keep 2-3 round bursts on a 12” plate at like 35 yards.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663996" data-commentid="4663996" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663996" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Robert DeMarchi" aria-label="Reply to Robert DeMarchi">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4663997" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4663997" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Kirk</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4663997"><time datetime="2024-12-11T10:40:10-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 10:40 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>In today’s world of widely-available intermediate cartridge assault rifles, the tactical utility of anything vaguely submachinegun-like is questionable.</p> <p>Even for police roles/missions.</p> <p>Given that, I’d suggest making your choice based on whatever floats your boat the highest. Historical? STEN. Modern tacticool? Ingram.</p> <p>Personally, I think that a lot of the reason that the Ingram didn’t go anywhere with an actual military contract had a lot to do with that entire “short/small” issue; if you’ve ever seen a submachinegun firer lose control of their gun, you’ll know it’s usually because they’ve managed to somehow munge it all up. Observed a small-frame individual suffer either a failure to get their Uzi stock into a locked condition or said stock collapsed on them, and because of the way the damn thing was being held, it wound up spraying 9mm <i>everywhere</i>. Only by the grace of an exceedingly generous God did they manage to miss everyone on the firing line, that day.</p> <p>My take is that anything that doesn’t have a good, solid stock and some actual length on it that affords a proper forward grip is a bad, bad idea for most shooters. I would not procure a folding-stock Uzi or Ingram that didn’t have a full-time suppressor on it for love nor money… Accidents waiting to happen in the hands of the inexperienced.</p> <p>Oh, BTW… That spinning Uzi of death? In the hands of a Federal agent, doing training on a military range they’d done a “straphang” on, rather than open one for themselves. I threw them off of it after that display of weapons-handling skill. They were outraged, seeming to think that such idiocy was “normal”. Being as we had a heavily trafficked civilian road behind us, I wasn’t happy about it, at all.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4663997" data-commentid="4663997" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4663997" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Kirk" aria-label="Reply to Kirk">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4664385" class="comment even depth-2 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4664385" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9e7c20c250d7bce7a3db965953c3e920?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/9e7c20c250d7bce7a3db965953c3e920?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">eon</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4664385"><time datetime="2024-12-11T22:54:59-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 10:54 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>No arguments, on any of it.</p> <p>I’ve used both, Sten MK II 9mm, and MAC-10 in both 9mm and .45 persuasions. I found the .45 MAC to be less of a handful than the 9mm due to having a somewhat lower rate of fire. On single-shot, it was pretty accurate out to 50 meters, which is about all you can ask of a suppressed .45 anything. (Yes, I know the DeLisle .45 SMLE is supposedly accurate to 400 meters; I remain to be convinced of that.)</p> <p>Mostly, I agree that the MAC in all versions badly needs a proper shoulder stock. So did Mitchell Werbell, apparently.</p> <p><a href="https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/m10-full-auto-for-sale-rare/491652" rel="nofollow ugc">https://www.firearmsnews.com/editorial/m10-full-auto-for-sale-rare/491652</a></p> <p>Note that this was a mid-1970s development, after the MAC had been “on the market” long enough to generate customer feedback.</p> <p>I can’t help thinking that the Marlin Camp9 and Camp45, the Beretta CX4 9mm carbine, and especially the Hi-Point .45 carbines, all owe something to this design.</p> <p>I also can’t help thinking that if someone thinks they need something like this, they really need an M4 in 5.56 x 45mm.</p> <p>clear ether</p> <p>eon</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4664385" data-commentid="4664385" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4664385" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to eon" aria-label="Reply to eon">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4665464" class="comment odd alt depth-3 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4665464" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4665464"><time datetime="2024-12-13T06:16:22-07:00">December 13, 2024 at 6:16 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>“(…)Beretta CX4 9mm(…)owe something to this(…)”<br /> Err… Now I have hard time to link said Ingram design and said <i>Italdesign Giugiaro</i> creation.</p> <p>“(…)need and(…)5.56 x 45mm(…)”<br /> Cx4 was one of trinity introduced by Beretta, other parts were Px4 automatic pistol and Rx4 <a href="https://modernfirearms.net/en/civilian-rifles/italy-civilian-rifles/beretta-rx4-eng/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://modernfirearms.net/en/civilian-rifles/italy-civilian-rifles/beretta-rx4-eng/</a> so they seems to acknowledge from beginning that there is also need for 5,56 x 45 mm self-loader.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4665464" data-commentid="4665464" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4665464" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4664464" class="comment even depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4664464" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4664464"><time datetime="2024-12-12T02:54:40-07:00">December 12, 2024 at 2:54 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>“(…)anything that doesn’t have a good, solid stock and some actual length on it that affords a proper forward grip is a bad, bad idea(…)”<br /> Then you would be probably better served by older Ingram design namely <b>Model 6</b><br /> <a href="http://modernfirearms.net/en/submachine-guns/u-s-a-submachine-guns/ingram-m6-eng/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://modernfirearms.net/en/submachine-guns/u-s-a-submachine-guns/ingram-m6-eng/</a><br /> that is if you are ready accept to bigger size and mass and most importantly capacity lower than in STEN (30 vs 32).</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4664464" data-commentid="4664464" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4664464" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4669790" class="comment odd alt depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4669790" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/40e1e98e7c6a021c983b9c80e4925079?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/40e1e98e7c6a021c983b9c80e4925079?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">TRX</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4669790"><time datetime="2024-12-20T18:40:15-07:00">December 20, 2024 at 6:40 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I have a MAC-11. With the stock 32-round magazine and the selector set to “rock and roll” it’s about a four-shot gun for most shooters. After many, many magazines of practice, I was eventually able to tickle 3 or 4 shot bursts from it. The cyclic rate is ridiculously high. At half the rate, or even a third, it would be much more useful, at least if your concept of useful is akin to “actually hitting anything.”</p> <p>Despite careful warnings and demonstrations, almost every new shooter winds up squeezing off at least half a magazine, in a big curving arc up and toward their shooting hand side. Best to only put a few rounds in each mag when newbies are learning how to control it.</p> <p>The MAC-11 is hilariously good fun, but it’s a toy, not a serious firearm. Besides the cyclic rate, the accuracy is… basically nonexistent, with the open bolt slamming back and forth, and the nasty trigger slap. And though it’s a bit bigger than a 1911 and only shoots a .380 ACP, it’s like trying to hold on to an enraged honey badger on full-auto, and bounces around in your hand in semi.</p> <p>In a “need a gun” situation, I’d prefer any ordinary pistol, or perhaps a real SMG like the Sten or an M3, though I haven’t actually had a chance to shoot one of those.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4669790" data-commentid="4669790" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4669790" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to TRX" aria-label="Reply to TRX">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4664004" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4664004" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c90dfe55c8e9b2b5e2f3f8899a2ccf1c?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/c90dfe55c8e9b2b5e2f3f8899a2ccf1c?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Klaus</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4664004"><time datetime="2024-12-11T10:44:51-07:00">December 11, 2024 at 10:44 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>The MAC saw some combat with some SA REECE comandos.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4664004" data-commentid="4664004" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4664004" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Klaus" aria-label="Reply to Klaus">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4664516" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4664516" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/45e085c381394cc4739afefef687d163?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/45e085c381394cc4739afefef687d163?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Old Tor</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4664516"><time datetime="2024-12-12T05:37:48-07:00">December 12, 2024 at 5:37 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>STEN runs. MAC jams.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4664516" data-commentid="4664516" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4664516" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Old Tor" aria-label="Reply to Old Tor">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4665457" class="comment even depth-2 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4665457" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4665457"><time datetime="2024-12-13T06:05:45-07:00">December 13, 2024 at 6:05 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>I would not take 1st for granted, especially considering wobbly magazine well of MkII.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4665457" data-commentid="4665457" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4665457" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4665579" class="comment odd alt thread-even depth-1 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4665579" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ed2e813cd4a230689b666c1f4ca48e1b?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/ed2e813cd4a230689b666c1f4ca48e1b?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Pdb</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/sten-mkii-vs-ingram-m10-9-w-john-keene/#comment-4665579"><time datetime="2024-12-13T09:14:53-07:00">December 13, 2024 at 9:14 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Sten, you can club ze German with it; better’ly… If needed.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4665579" data-commentid="4665579" data-postid="32683" data-belowelement="div-comment-4665579" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Pdb" aria-label="Reply to Pdb">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ol> <div id="respond" class="comment-respond"> <h3 id="reply-title" class="comment-reply-title">Leave a Reply <small><a 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