OpenAI deleted NYT copyright case evidence, say lawyers • The Register

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href="https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2024/11/21/new_york_times_lawyers_openai/"> <strong aria-hidden="true">7</strong> <img aria-hidden="true" width="18" height="16" alt="comment bubble on white" src="/design_picker/f5daacc84b9722c1e31ba85f836c37e4ad993fc4/graphics/icons/bubble_comment_white.png" srcset="/design_picker/f5daacc84b9722c1e31ba85f836c37e4ad993fc4/graphics/icons/bubble_comment_white.svg"> </a> </div> </div> <div class="header_right"> <h1>New York Times lawyers claim OpenAI accidentally deleted evidence in copyright case</h1> </div> <div class="header_left"> <div class="comments_wrap desktop_only"> <a class="comment_count" aria-label="Read comments on this article, currently there are 7 comments" title="View comments on this article" href="https://forums.theregister.com/forum/all/2024/11/21/new_york_times_lawyers_openai/"> <strong aria-hidden="true">7</strong> <img aria-hidden="true" width="18" height="16" alt="comment bubble on white" src="/design_picker/f5daacc84b9722c1e31ba85f836c37e4ad993fc4/graphics/icons/bubble_comment_white.png" srcset="/design_picker/f5daacc84b9722c1e31ba85f836c37e4ad993fc4/graphics/icons/bubble_comment_white.svg"> </a> </div> </div> <div class="header_right"> <h2>Probably not intentional, but '150 person-hours' of work were still lost</h2> <div class="byline_and_dateline_and_share_and_comments"> <div class="byline_wrap"> <img class="vulture_icon" src="/design_picker/d518b499f8a6e2c65d4d8c49aca8299d54b03012/graphics/icon/vulture_red.svg" alt="icon"> <a class="byline" href="/Author/Brandon-Vigliarolo" title="Read more by this author"> Brandon Vigliarolo </a> </div> <div class="dateline_wrap"> <span class="dateline"> Thu 21 Nov 2024 <span class="slashes"> // </span> 22:45 UTC </span> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div id=main-col> <div id="article-wrapper" class="article_wrap"> <div class="left_col"> <div class="floating_bar"> <div class="sharing_widget_story_desktop uses_overlay"> <button 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target="_blank"> </a> <a data-social="facebook" class="faceb_dialog" href="https://www.facebook.com/dialog/feed?app_id=1404095453459035&display=popup&link=https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/21/new_york_times_lawyers_openai/%3futm_medium%3dshare%26utm_content%3darticle%26utm_source%3dfacebook" target="_blank"> </a> <br class="hide_after_sm"> <a data-social="linkedin" class="linkedin_social" href="https://www.linkedin.com/shareArticle?mini=true&url=https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/21/new_york_times_lawyers_openai/%3futm_medium%3dshare%26utm_content%3darticle%26utm_source%3dlinkedin&title=New%20York%20Times%20lawyers%20claim%20OpenAI%20accidentally%20deleted%20evidence%20in%20copyright%20case&summary=Probably%20not%20intentional%2c%20but%20%27150%20person-hours%27%20of%20work%20were%20still%20lost" target="_blank"> </a> <a data-social="whatsapp" href="https://api.whatsapp.com/send?text=https://www.theregister.com/2024/11/21/new_york_times_lawyers_openai/%3futm_medium%3dshare%26utm_content%3darticle%26utm_source%3dwhatsapp" target="_blank"> </a> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="promo_advert"> </div> </div> <div class="centre_col"> <div id="article"> <div id="body"> <p>The New York Times has filed a letter in its copyright infringement case against OpenAI and Microsoft, alerting the court that the ChatGPT maker accidentally deleted a bunch of data that may have been evidence. </p> <p>The <a href="https://regmedia.co.uk/2024/11/21/nyt-openai-deletion-letter.pdf" rel="nofollow">letter</a> [PDF], filed yesterday in the Southern District of New York by lawyers for the Times, asserts that OpenAI engineers deleted "all of News Plaintiffs' programs and search result data" from one of two virtual machines set up for the purpose of allowing the plaintiffs to scour OpenAI training data for copyrighted material. </p> <p>The <a href="https://www.theregister.com/2023/12/27/the_new_york_times_files/">lawsuit in question</a> was filed in late 2023, alleging that OpenAI and Microsoft used articles from the Times to train ChatGPT and other models and readily displayed the content of articles from the newspaper when asked - all without permission, the Times claimed. </p> <div aria-hidden="true" class="adun" data-pos="top" data-raptor="condor" data-xsm=",fluid,mpu," data-sm=",fluid,mpu," data-md=",fluid,mpu,"> <noscript> <a href="https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Z0LM4XKFsntpXb-3spzeBAAAANY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0" target="_blank"> <img src="https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/ad?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2Z0LM4XKFsntpXb-3spzeBAAAANY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0" alt=""> </a> </noscript> </div> <p>"OpenAI has provided the News Plaintiffs with two dedicated virtual machines with improved computing resources for performing their searches, and News Plaintiffs have spent an additional 150 person-hours (and even more computing hours) since November 1 searching OpenAI's training data," lawyers Ian Crosby and Steven Lieberman said in the letter. </p> <div aria-hidden="true" class="adun" data-pos="top" data-raptor="falcon" data-xmd=",fluid,mpu,leaderboard," data-lg=",fluid,mpu,leaderboard," data-xlg=",fluid,billboard,superleaderboard,mpu,leaderboard," data-xxlg=",fluid,billboard,superleaderboard,brandwidth,brandimpact,leaderboard,mpu,"> <noscript> <a 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<img src="https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/ad?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33Z0LM4XKFsntpXb-3spzeBAAAANY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0" alt=""> </a> </noscript> </div> </div> <p>"While OpenAI was able to recover much of the data that it erased, the folder structure and file names of the News Plaintiffs' work product have been irretrievably lost," the document continued. "Without the folder structure and original final names, the recovered data is unreliable and cannot be used to determine where the News Plaintiffs' copied articles were used to build Defendants' models."</p> <p>As a result, the plaintiffs have been forced to redo "an entire week's worth of its experts' and lawyers' work," the letter asserted. There's no assertion that OpenAI deleted the data on purpose, mind you, with the Times' lawyers saying that they "have no reason to believe [it] was intentional." </p> <ul class="listinks"> <li><a href="https://www.theregister.com/2024/09/26/openai_training_data_author_copyright_case/">OpenAI to reveal secret training data in copyright case – for lawyers' eyes only</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.theregister.com/2024/02/28/openai_nyt_lawsuit/">OpenAI claims New York Times paid someone to 'hack' ChatGPT</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/13/nyt_hacking_response/">New York Times: OpenAI's claim we 'hacked' its products both 'irrelevant' and 'false'</a></li> <li><a href="https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/05/ms_openai_vs_nyt/">Microsoft: Copyright law didn't stop the VCR and shouldn't stop the LLM</a></li> </ul> <p>Crosby and Lieberman did note in the letter that the incident "underscore[s] that OpenAI is in the best position to search its own datasets for the News Plaintiffs' works using its own tools and equipment," but argue OpenAI hasn't been receptive to such requests. </p> <p>"Since the last hearing, the News Plaintiffs have sent OpenAI information for OpenAI to perform two separate searches on the News Plaintiffs' behalf," claiming that the requests were sent on November 4 and 13. "To date, the News Plaintiffs have not received results from either those searches, or confirmation that OpenAI has started them." </p> <div aria-hidden="true" class="adun" data-pos="top" data-raptor="falcon" data-xsm=",fluid,mpu," data-sm=",fluid,mpu," data-md=",fluid,mpu,"> <noscript> <a href="https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Z0LM4XKFsntpXb-3spzeBAAAANY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0" target="_blank"> <img src="https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/ad?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/aiml&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44Z0LM4XKFsntpXb-3spzeBAAAANY&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D426raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0" alt=""> </a> </noscript> </div> <p>Because OpenAI hasn't committed to conducting searches "in a timely manner," The Times' lawyers are requesting that the court order OpenAI "to identify and admit which of the News Plaintiffs' works it used" and save it the burden of digging through the digital stacks itself. </p> <p>"We disagree with the characterizations made and will file our response soon," OpenAI told <em>The Register</em>, while declining to elaborate on which portion it disagreed with - the deletion claim or the non-response to query requests. </p> <p>A response hasn't been filed as of writing. ®</p> <div class="wptl btm"> <noscript><strong>Get our</strong> <a href="https://whitepapers.theregister.com/" style="text-transform:uppercase">Tech Resources</a></noscript> </div> </div> <div class="article_body_btm mobile_only"> <div class="sharing_widget_story_desktop uses_overlay"> <button class="top_blob" aria-label="Share this story" title="Share this story"> <img width="25" height="25" src="/design_picker/d2e337b97204af4aa34dda04c4e5d56d954b216f/graphics/icons/social_share_icon.svg" alt=""> <span>Share</span> </button> <div 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OpenAI deleted NYT copyright case evidence, say lawyers • The Register