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onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/pomoc/index.html','Pomoc','toolbar=0,scrollbars=1,location=0,status=1,statusbar=1,menubar=0,resizable=0,width=640,height=500'); return false;"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/menu/pomoc.gif" alt="Pomo膷"/></a></div> </div></div></div> <div id="vsebina_left_word"> <div class="top"></div> <div class="main"> <div class="content"> <b>Oddaje</b> <ul> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/absolutno_globalno/">Absolutno globalno </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/ali_me_poznas/">Ali me pozna拧? </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/alpe_donava_jadran/">Alpe - Donava - Jadran </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/besedi_na_sledi/">Besedi na sledi </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dnevnik/">Dnevnik - Sedma mo膷 osamosvojitve </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dokumentarci/">Dokumentarci </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dosje/">Dosje </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/duhovni_utrip/">Duhovni utrip </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/enajsta_sola/">Enajsta 拧ola </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/hribar/">Hribar </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list_focus" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/intervju/">Intervju </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/iz_popotne_torbe/">Iz popotne torbe </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/knjiga_mene_briga/">Knjiga mene briga </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/male_sive_celice/">Male sive celice </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/mednarodna_obzorja/">Mednarodna obzorja </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/milijonar/">Milijonar </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/obzorja_duha/">Obzorja duha </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/opus/">Opus </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/pisave/">Pisave </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/pod_klobukom/">Pod klobukom </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/pogled-na/">Pogled na ... </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/polnocni_klub/">Polno膷ni klub </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/predsednik_za_slovenijo/">Predsednik za Slovenijo </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/prvi_in_drugi/">Prvi in drugi </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/radovedni_tacek/">Radovedni Ta膷ek </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/resnicnost/">Resni膷na resni膷nost </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/slovenski_vodni_krog/">Slovenski vodni krog </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/tednik/">Tednik </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/tekma/">Tekma </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/turistika/">Turistika </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/umko/">Umko </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/vecerni_gost/">Ve膷erni gost </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/velika_imena_malega_ekrana/">Velika imena malega ekrana </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/z_glavo_na_zabavo/">Z glavo na zabavo </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/z_vami/">Z vami </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/za_zadnjim_vogalom/">Za zadnjim vogalom </a></li> <li><a class="oddaje_left_list" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/zlatko_zakladko/">Zlatko Zakladko </a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="bottom"></div> <div class="bottom_space"></div> </div> </td> <td width="634"> <div class="middle_content"> <div align="right"></div> <div class="middle_top_content"> <p class="about">Odprti kop ponuja govorjena besedila doma膷ih televizijskih oddaj RTV Slovenija. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/o_odprtem_kopu">Ve膷 o Odprtem kopu...</a><br/>  <form name="searchform" action="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/search/" method="get"> Iskanje: <input id="id_searchstring" name="searchstring" tabindex="1" value="" style="width: 200px"/> <a style="display:inline;" href="javascript:document.searchform.submit()"><img style="display:inline;" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/gumb_se.gif" alt="I拧膷i"/></a> </form> <br/> <b>Za citiranje oddaj na blogu ali forumu kliknite gumb  <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png"/>  , ki se nahaja na za膷etku vsakega odstavka!</b>  <div class="forum_content"> <div id="blogleft"> <div class="top">  <h1>Intervju: Dr. Taras Kermauner</h1> </div> <div class="content"> <div align="right"></div> <div class="content_top"> <div align="right"></div> <div style="float: right"> Besedilo, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/intervju/dr-taras-kermauner/thumbs/">Slike</a> </div> Premiera: nedelja, 03. februar 2008, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/intervju/">Vse oddaje</a> <div class="show_navigation"> <div class="lefttext">Prej拧nja: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/intervju/borut-pahor/">Borut Pahor</a></div> <div class="righttext">Naslednja: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/intervju/katarina-kresal/">Katarina Kresal</a></div> </div> </div> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><div class="ok_main"><div class="ok_mainpanel"><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:0:17/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:0:17/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00000643.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:0:17/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:0:17/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s1', 'play/11248235/0:0:17/', 'images/v11248235/00000643.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s1">Dober ve膷er, spo拧tovani gledalci, moj gost nocoj je zelo markantna osebnost, akademik dr. Taras Kermauner, literarni kritik, dramski analitik, zelo pomemben akter v povojni kulturi, zlasti dramatiki. Dober ve膷er dr. Kermauner. Ne spomnim se, kdaj sem vas nazadnje videl na na拧i televiziji. Mislim, da 啪e zelo dolgo. <br/>Ja, 膷etrt stoletja verjetno, morda 拧e kaj ve膷. <br/>Je kak拧ne poseben razlog, smo se vam zelo zamerili? <br/>Ja, ne zamerili meni osebno, imel sem obdobje, ko sem 啪elel izstopati, ne izstopati, da bi bil bolj viden, ampak izstopiti iz dru啪benega 啪ivljenja, sem se premikal na rob in se mi je zdelo bolje, da dolo膷en 膷as, ki se je kar raztegnil na veliko let, pre啪ivim na tem robu. Zdaj pa se do neke mere vra膷am in zaenkrat sem 拧e kar zadovoljen. Kako pa bo naslednje leto, pa ne vem. <br/>To izstopanje va拧e je zna膷ilno, to vra膷anje je pa, ne vem to膷no, kaj to pomeni. <br/>Tudi sam ne vem, eksperiment, sam s seboj, manj z drugimi, ker sem samo en v tej slovenski dru啪bi med mnogimi. Navajen sem od majhnega tako reko膷, da sem vstopal in izstopal, deloma po svoji volji, deloma po sili prilike, po vojni, med vojno, ve膷krat v 啪ivljenju in sem se nekako navadil na ta ritem in je zelo dober, ker nosim v sebi, ne samo dve, kot vsakdo, jasno, dve osebnosti in alterniram z obema, igram na obe, obe igrata name in to mi je ugodno. <br/>Vi sicer 啪ivite 啪e dolga leta na <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kras" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kras')); return false;"> Krasu</a>, vas Auber, zdaj nekako odmaknjeno 啪ivljenje, spremljate pa politiko, kulturo, moram re膷i, da ste vi eden najbolj plodovitih avtorjev, ne vem, 膷e je 200 knjig dovolj, kar sem sedaj rekel, jaz sem malo gledal po COBBIS- u, v <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodna_in_univerzitetna_knji啪nica" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narodna_in_univerzitetna_knji啪nica')); return false;"> NUK</a>- u pa sem pri拧el do 拧tevilke enot okrog 400, zdaj ne vem kaj so vse knjige, kaj so 膷lanki, knjig je okrog 200, ampak to vra膷anje va拧e, vi ste se odmaknili od te dru啪be, vam je bilo tega vsega dovolj, ste bili razo膷arani. Ali je to zdaj, kar sem nekje prebral, nekako va拧e vra膷anje tudi v politiko? Jaz vem, da ste vi hud kritik politike, tudi politikov, predvojne, povojne, sedanje, ampak ali je zdaj kaj novega, da se vra膷ate recimo? </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:3:35/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:3:35/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00005535.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:3:35/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:3:35/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s2', 'play/11248235/0:3:35/', 'images/v11248235/00005535.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s2">Nekaj novega je. Morda ne tako temeljno novo, kot bi se zdelo, te mo啪nosti najbr啪 ni, ampak 膷e sem se 啪e odlo膷il za vra膷anje v dru啪bo ali od roba bolj k sredi拧膷u, 膷eprav sredi拧膷e v postmoderni dru啪bi ni ali enega sredi拧膷a, ampak je vse polno sredi拧膷. Sem se odlo膷il tudi do neke mere, ampak samo do neke mere biti v politiki. Ampak samo z distanco. Politiko sem ves 膷as spremljal, ves 膷as 啪ivljenja, o njej pisal, bi bil nekak拧en politolog, pa nisem, ker nisem kot strokovnjak, ampak dejansko kot amater, ljubitelj, kot usodno zaznamovan po politiki, zaradi svojih star拧ev, o膷eta itn., zaradi svoje usode in nekako tudi na svoja stara leta, nisem ve膷 mlad, se mi je zdelo pomembno, da pridem v stik s politiko, ampak ne tako, da bi odlo膷ujo膷e vplival nanjo. <br/>Vi ste zapisali, politika me zanima samo toliko, jaz vem, da ste se s politiko na膷elno in z distanco veliko ukvarjali, va拧e delovanje je povezano s politiko. <br/>Ja, res je. <br/>Rekli ste pa to, politika me zanima samo toliko, kolikor imam jaz mo啪nost svobodnega izra啪anja, svobodnega komuniciranja in pisanja. <br/> Natan膷no tako. <br/>Se pravi, zdaj imate mo啪nost eno, drugo in tretje. Ampak vi se vra膷ate zdaj v politiko. Konkretno berem, da vas zanima ena od novih strank, konkretno dru拧tvo Zares. Kaj pa vidite tukaj v tem dru拧tvu? <br/>No, to je mlada stranka. Ko se je ustanovila, 啪e prej, kot dru拧tvo Zares in so me iz te stranke nekateri nagovorili, da bi na nek na膷in, </p></div><br/><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:5:37/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:5:37/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00009287.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:5:37/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:5:37/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s3', 'play/11248235/0:5:37/', 'images/v11248235/00009287.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s3">misli dal k njihovemu programu, sem to izrabil kot prilo啪nost, napisal to, zdaj me pa zanima tudi, kam bo ta stranka 拧la, tudi v realiteti, saj zelo malo 膷asa eksistira, potem bomo pa videli naprej, sem 拧e vedno v popolnoma svobodnem odnosu. Priznati moram, da so zelo fer, v ni膷emer 拧e niso name vplivali, na moje stali拧膷e ali kaj takega. <br/>Na vas je recimo naredil Gregor Golubi膷 izjemen vtis, zaradi tega verjetno, ker je filozof, zaradi te njegove diplomske naloge o Kratilu. Ja, to膷no. <br/>Ampak vi najbr啪 ne pozabljate, da je ta isti Golubi膷 bil prej v eni drugi stranki, ki pa je bila znana po marsi膷em ne膷ednem. <br/>Ja, torej, tako natan膷no nisem zasledoval ne njega kot njegove stranke kot tudi drugih. Sli拧al sem o vseh teh re膷eh. Ampak prvi膷, vsakdo ima pravico, da se spremeni, zakaj ne bi dal mo啪nosti pri sebi Golubi膷u te mo啪nosti tudi jaz. Zame je va啪no, kaj bo zdaj delal naprej, sre膷ala sva se enkrat v 啪ivo, poleti in na mene je naredil sijajen vtis, s svojo erokvenco, pa tudi pametjo. Prebral sem njegovo diplomsko nalogo, ki je res tehtna, to je nadarjen filozof in pravzaprav dve mo啪nosti sta. Ali se zagrenim in ostanem sam pri sebi ali investiram, kot vse 啪ivljenje v nekoga ali nekaj. Dobro, saj dostikrat se zgodi, da tisto, v kar investiram, se sesuje, ampak dobro, grem naprej, samo v slepilu pa no mogo膷e 啪iveti. 膶e bi se odlo膷il za pretirano distanco in skepso, bi 拧lo vse v maloro. <br/>Neko膷 ste zapisali, vse 膷esar ste se lotili, je propadlo. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:7:37/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:7:37/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00012044.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:7:37/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:7:37/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s4', 'play/11248235/0:7:37/', 'images/v11248235/00012044.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s4">Ja, saj bom tudi jaz propadel. Zdaj sem bil zelo bolan, zdaj ne, zdaj so me zdravniki, hvala in 膷ast, so me skupaj spravili, ampak jasno, 膷ez en 膷as bo isto. Propadel bom, jasno, kot vse ostalo, na to ra膷unam, 啪ivim s svojim star膷evstvom, boleznijo. <br/> Ampak dokler mi je znano, da 啪ivim toliko 膷asa, bom tudi investiral, to je pa tvegano. <br/>A pa vas recimo ti konkretni politiki o katerih sva govorila, privla膷i misel, mislim, da je Golubi膷eva, o samoomejevanju politike. Ker to je bistvo. <br/>Ja. Politika se pola拧膷a vsega. Zdaj pa Golubi膷 vendarle govori o ne膷em novem. Je to to? <br/>To je to, o tem sva se tudi pogovarjala, o tem smo pisali. Zame temeljna stvar v vsem 啪ivljenju, kot vidite 啪e po mojih gestah, govoru, sem po naravi izredno agresiven 膷lovek. Izredno. In 膷e sem hotel do neke mere pre啪iveti, sem se moral 啪e od majhnega omejevati z relativnim uspehom. In ta stranka pravi, da temelji na samoomejevanju, to se pravi, to bo tudi dokazala in tudi dokazovala, 膷e ne bo zmogla, se bomo potem pogovarjali naprej. Ampak zelo to膷no so zadeli. To je ena od temeljnih vrednost, ki dru啪i to stranko. Namene te stranke in moje namene. <br/>Kaj pa sicer mislite o slovenski politiki? Kardinal Rode pravi, prekleta politika slovenska. <br/>To so cenena gesla. Vsaka politika je cenena. Dobro, so kak拧ne veli膷astne, jih morda kasneje delamo npr. Kennedyjeva, de Gaullova, pa manj veli膷astne. Politika je umazana stvar, ker druga膷e biti ne more, ker je bistvo politike manipuliranje in to sem svetoval stranki oz. takrat dru拧tvu Zares, da bi posku拧alo v javnosti narediti vtis in ta vtis tudi utemeljiti prakti膷no, da ji ni glavna oblast, lastnina in oblast, ampak da je glavno nekaj drugega na tej besedi zelo vztrajam, drugega, kaj je to drugega je te啪ko re膷i, ampak 膷e bi ljudje 啪e videli, da se neka stranka trudi z delnim uspehom, da bi izstopila iz tega strahotnega pola拧膷anja, potem bi pa morda rekli, da to pa je neka 拧ansa. <br/>Narodu blagor. </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:10:9/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:10:9/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00016646.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:10:9/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:10:9/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s5', 'play/11248235/0:10:9/', 'images/v11248235/00016646.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s5">Recimo, samo da je on, ko je od拧el, kot <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cankar" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cankar')); return false;"> Cankar</a> sam, ne vem, kako bi Cankar, 膷e bi od拧el, se vezal na socialno demokracijo itn., jaz sem pa za eno tako revolucionarno gibanje ne morem iti, ker ne verjamem vanj, Zares tudi ni revolucionarno gibanje, ker je levosredinska stranka. Je pa vpra拧anje, 膷e je danes kak拧na stranka na zahodu, 膷e sploh ima mo啪nosti, 膷e je ta dru啪ba, 膷e ima mo啪nosti to dru啪enje realizirati. Ne vem. <br/>Ker ta politika, to politiko zanima moj lastni blagor. <br/>Brez dvoma, ne bom rekel odlo膷ujo膷e, v zelo veliki meri, to je zelo 膷love拧ko kot mene, kakor se trudim in govorim druga膷e, navsezadnje. <br/>Ampak publika je vesela, publika lahko 拧infa to politiko, 膷e jo ocenjuje, politika gre pa svojo pot. <br/>Tudi to je res. Ne zahtevam preve膷 od dru啪be, zahtevam dale膷 najve膷 od sebe pa od mojih bli啪njih, ki morajo z mano vred garati. Ampak imate prav, do vsega zunanjega sem pa zelo skepti膷en. <br/>Ta znameniti ekonomist, svetovalec raznih mednarodnih multinacionalk, dr. Kralji膷 pravi, da <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci')); return false;"> Slovenci</a> nimamo dr啪avnika, nobenega, nimamo politika, imamo pa politikante. Te啪ka kvalifikacija. <br/>Tudi sam sem ve膷krat napisal tak拧ne stavke. Seveda po eni strani so res, 啪iveti pa ne morem z vednostjo, da je to tako, ker bi si obupal pa od拧el. To se pravi, moram se delati, kot da ni tako, moram sam sebe prepri膷evati, da ni tako, dal bi pa opravi膷ilo za te nesre膷ne Slovence, kamor spadava tudi midva. Nekoliko sem zgodovinarja. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci')); return false;"> Slovenci</a> smo 拧e zmeraj nezrela nacija. Mi imamo res dr啪avo 15, 20 let, ampak imeti samostojno dr啪avo 拧e ne pomeni biti zrel. Mi do啪ivljamo, kot sem opazoval z analizo, natan膷no slovensko knji啪evnost, drame in zavest, ideje so prihajale k nam stoletje kasneje kot v <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evropa" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evropa')); return false;"> Evropi</a>. Prvega me拧膷anstva, eti膷nega, kalvinisti膷nega, mi <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci')); return false;"> Slovenci</a> sploh imeli nismo, zelo malo. Za膷elo se je 啪e skoraj z grudnimi grozdi za narodov blagor. V tem pomenu po拧kodovana, nedozorela nacija in se premalo tega zavedamo. Danes nas udarja po glavi, v膷eraj se je govorilo za <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenija" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenija')); return false;"> Slovenijo</a>, to je zgodba uspehu, danes kri膷ijo, to je zgodba o neuspehu. Ni ne uspeh, ne neuspeh, 膷ude啪no je, da se je ta kopica trmastih ljudi vstala in se re拧ila. Naklju膷je, morda volja na拧ih prednikov, da bi bili pa sol sveta, to pa ne. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:13:21/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:13:21/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00020480.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:13:21/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:13:21/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s6', 'play/11248235/0:13:21/', 'images/v11248235/00020480.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s6">Vi pravite za slovensko politiko, ne vem, 膷e 拧e tako mislite, politika je medijski tra膷. <br/>Ja, to sem najbr啪 tudi napisal, del politike je medijski tra膷, ni pa 膷isto vsa. Recimo 41- ta leta sta obe politiki, ne leva in desna, nista bili medijski tra膷. Partizani so bili tudi politika in domobranci, niso bili oboji medijski tra膷. Danes v tej dru啪bi pa postaja ta politika bolj kot kadarkoli medijski tra膷. En element, politika ima obrazov kot? <br/>Mislite, da se je iz膷rpala, ena in druga? Da se je recimo pred vojno iz膷rpala, pa potem po vojni, ali se je tudi ta 啪e malo? <br/>V Evropi se to vidi, kako so se iz膷rpale v <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglija" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglija')); return false;"> Angliji</a>, politike, so jih nadomestili novi koncepti, novi optimizmi, nove investicije v prihodnost, ki so. Tako je. Lahko re膷emo, se vle膷emo za nos, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oton_沤upan膷i膷" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oton_沤upan膷i膷')); return false;"> Oton 沤upan膷i膷</a> je imel krasno primero, da je nekdo stopil na ramen in 拧el naprej. Ta paradoks velja tudi za politiko. <br/>O Slovencih tudi ne mislite posebno dobro, tudi o politiki. <br/>Ne mislim slab拧e o njih kot <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cankar" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cankar')); return false;"> Cankar</a>. <br/>Vi pravite, Slovenci smo pritlehno samozavestni itn. Obrtni拧ko uspe拧ni, vlada neka samozavest nekega obrtni拧tva itn., ni pa tiste kulture, ni vrednost. 艩e tako mislit? <br/>Ja, ja. Jaz <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci')); return false;"> Slovence</a> ljubim. <br/>Od dale膷 pravite. <br/>Ja, od dale膷, prakti膷no sem pa v njihovem centru in ne morem ne biti. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cankar" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cankar')); return false;"> Cankar</a> je pa izrazil, kaj je domovina, ti si vla膷uga, ampak zraven te ljubim. To je paradoks 膷loveka majhnega naroda, 拧e posebej tam Betajnova, ljudi, ki se med sabo onemogo膷a in na drugi strani, jaz bi se lahko odlo膷il za kak拧no drugo nacijo, moja stara mama je bila Nemka, pa se nisem, se 拧e dobro spomnim, ko smo se pogovarjali v <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pariz" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pariz')); return false;"> Parizu</a>, Veljko <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusi" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusi')); return false;"> Rus</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primo啪i" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primo啪i')); return false;"> Primo啪</a><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozak" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozak')); return false;"> Kozak</a>, bratranec moje 啪ene <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samo" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samo')); return false;"> Samo</a> Bratov啪, leta 57, za kaj se bomo odlo膷ali. Bratov啪 se je odlo膷il, da bo <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francozi" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francozi')); return false;"> Francoz</a> in zdaj je redni 膷lan slovenske akademije, je naredil izredno kariero, je tudi fizik, mi trije smo pa rekli, da se vrnemo v Slovenijo in delamo naprej. <br/> </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:16:12/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:16:12/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00024358.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:16:12/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:16:12/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s7', 'play/11248235/0:16:12/', 'images/v11248235/00024358.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s7">Odlo膷itev. Morda je bila napa膷na in bi bil danes 膷isto kje drugje. </p></div><div class="para"><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:16:19/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:16:19/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s8', 'play/11248235/0:16:19/', 'images/v11248235/00024358.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s8">Tako je bilo pravite, 膷e pogledava nazaj, vas je gospod Kermaunem vendarle politika po malem privla膷ila, ste imeli ambicijo, va拧i sodobniki, to pa vi zdaj na koncu ugotavljate, Pirjevec, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan')); return false;"> Zupan</a> in 拧e nekateri pa so imeli, pravite nisem dolgo 膷asa vedel, ampak oni so 啪eleli iti v politiko. Oni so imeli politi膷ne ambicije. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nik</a> recimo sploh. <br/>Pu膷nik ja, medtem ko Zupan ne, Pirjevec pa na nekem robu, saj je bil zelo visoko v partijski hierarhiji, potem ko se mu je pa to uprlo in je tako pretiraval z nekaterimi svojimi nor膷avostmi, da je sam po svoji volji, deloma podzavedno, pa tudi zavedno, izsilil skoraj polom. Ta dvojnost je v njem bila, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan')); return false;"> Zupan</a> pa mislim, da skoraj ne. Tudi ni imel nobenega talenta. Pu膷nik je pa druga stvar, on je pa politik kot tak. <br/>To ste pa takoj ugotovili. 沤e takrat, se je pokazal takoj. On tudi ni pisal kulturni拧kih 膷lankov, on je bil nekak拧na zveza med politiko, na katero bi mi vsi pristajali, pluralisti膷no, svobodnja拧ko in kulturo, ki smo jo predstavljali ostali leta 1958. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:18:2/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:18:2/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00027604.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:18:2/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:18:2/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s9', 'play/11248235/0:18:2/', 'images/v11248235/00027604.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s9">To je bil <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nik</a>, drugi pa ne. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane_Zajc" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane_Zajc')); return false;"> Zajc</a>. Skoz je bil na robu politike, Smole, zunaj. So pisali drame, kjer so analizirali politike. V <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krst_pri_Savici" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krst_pri_Savici')); return false;"> Krstu pri Savici</a> je Smole, to je drama sijajna, slovenske politike, ampak on ni hotel biti politik. <br/>Je ta va拧a generacija kriti膷na, tam okoli leta 1930 rojena. <br/> Kaj je bil pravzaprav va拧 cilj, namen, ambicija, vendarle, poglejte od Strani拧e, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ro啪anec" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ro啪anec')); return false;"> Ro啪anca</a>, vas, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile_Kosi" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mile_Kosi')); return false;"> Kos</a>, Kozak, vendarle je bila neka ambicija vplivati na to politiko, jo spreminjati. Sodili ste, da ta politika ne gre pravo pot, da je preve膷 oblastni拧ka, premalo pluralna, se pravi 拧lo je za to, da jo spremenite, nekateri bi jo pa tudi vrgli. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nik</a> recimo. <br/>Odvisno je bilo od ocene, kaj 膷lovek kulture, pisatelj, eseist, stori. Naj gre popolnoma v politiko, svet kulture, nekateri so popolnoma izstopili, tako da je zelo te啪ko re膷i. Vsekakor pa smo mi zavestno kontrirali, nasprotovali oblasti iz jasnega vzroka. 膶e nek pisatelj, znanstvenik, mislec, ne more objaviti tega, kar misli, je to za njega temeljna ovira, da se izrazi. In oblast, ki prepre膷uje to objavo, ki ima eno samo resnico in ki te preganja zaradi tega, ker ho膷e拧 izraziti svojo misel, ta oblast je napa膷na in v tem smislu smo se vsi na tej platformi na拧li in bili tako reko膷 zoper oblast. Druga stvar pa ne samo svoboda mi拧ljenja, svoboda objavljanja. </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:20:6/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:20:6/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00031298.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:20:6/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:20:6/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s10', 'play/11248235/0:20:6/', 'images/v11248235/00031298.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s10">To je tista svoboda, moderne <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evropa" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evropa')); return false;"> Evrope</a>. Kaj pa je zdaj onkraj tega? Katera oblast je, na kak拧en na膷in, s strankami ali kako druga膷e? Pu膷nik tudi ni bil za mnogo strankarstvo leta 1958, kot jaz ne, moramo paziti kako je kdaj kdo bil, mi smo vendarle vsi kot eni neomarksisti sanjarili in konstruirali neko dru啪bo, ki bi bila nonkraj me拧膷ansko strankarske. <br/>Ali me拧膷anska, neme拧膷anska? <br/>Neme拧膷anska, na za膷etku smo bili bolj novo levi膷arji. Ne me拧膷anska, kaj pa je bilo me拧膷anstvo leta 1957? Vi ste 啪eleli vrnitev me拧膷anstva? <br/>Kasneje, po letu 1965. Ko smo videli, da druga膷e ne gre, ampak leta 1957, 58, ko je bil ta veliki konflikt, ko so Pu膷nika zaprli, pa nismo 啪eleli vrnitve me拧膷anstva, mi smo 啪eleli, kot je to Veljko Rus formuliral, neko samoupravljanje, brezrazredno dru啪bo, z dana拧njega vidika morda iluzionisti, pa vendarle kaj je danes strankarska dru啪ba? <br/>Ste vi morda 啪eleli iti na pozicije dela OF? <br/>O tem med leti 57 in 64 smo mi o tem dosti pisali in to je bila na拧a platforma. <br/>Ker seveda potem je politika 拧la iz tega ven. <br/>Tako je. <br/>Ampak ti ljudje, ki so bili nekako kulturni, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek')); return false;"> Kocbek</a>, tudi <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan')); return false;"> Zupan</a>, te so bili v OF, to so bili na拧i zgledi. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:21:47/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:21:47/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00032746.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:21:47/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:21:47/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s11', 'play/11248235/0:21:47/', 'images/v11248235/00032746.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s11">Pustiva Kocbeka, pustiva <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nika</a>, vi ste bili ljudje, ki nekako niste zelo trpeli, ni bilo nekako hudega razloga, da bi se 拧li opozicijo. Saj tam ste bili sinovi uglednih partnerskih funkcionarjev, ste bili skoraj etablirani tam. Otroci novodobne partijske gospode, ki se vam ni ni膷 hudega godilo. Je bil pa to upor proti o膷etom. <br/>Saj to je sijajno vpra拧anje. Zelo dobro ste ga postavili, ker tukaj je bistvo. Nam zasebno se ni godilo slabo, 拧e marsikomu drugemu ne. Ampak ravno prej sem poudaril, jaz sem se imel za filozofa, Primo啪 <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozak" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozak')); return false;"> Kozak</a> je napisal dramo, ki si jo ni upal objaviti, ker ne bi bila tako objavljiva pred letom, takrat 60, 61. Mi smo protestirali zoper oblast, ne zato, kot posameznik, ki mu je manjkalo kruha, ali pa oblasti, ker so se mu delali krivice, ampak kot umetnik, filozof, ki ho膷e svoje kar misli, sporo膷iti ljudem. <br/>Pa ni 拧lo, oblast ni tega pustila. Pa ni 拧lo. To je bilo bistvo, ni bil zaseben upor. <br/>Pu膷nik je pa zgodba zase. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nik</a> je pa to resno jemal, on ni iz va拧ega kroga. <br/>Ne, ne. Pu膷nik je pri拧el zraven, se je silno hitro vklju膷il, 膷eprav ne 膷isto do konca nikoli, fasciniral vse s svojo voljo, energijo, jasnostjo, nas je vse pomaknil v bli啪ino politike, da se je konkretiziral, nosil tudi zelo hude posledice, mi smo mu bili, iz dokumentov se vidi, tej njegovi liniji zvesti, po eni strani, po drugi pa smo bili umetniki. Kaj naj jaz zdaj, Pu膷nik je pri拧el drugi膷 iz zapora, pri Tauferjevi, pri Veljku <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusi" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusi')); return false;"> Rusu</a> in pri meni in je ugotovil in je osebno rekel, 膷e bi nas bilo 20, 30, ki bi 拧li tako kot jaz brez strahu do 膷esa v zapor, bi bili rojeno jedro s katerega bi nastalo 拧tudentsko gibanje Cetra, tako sem pa ostal sam. Res je. Prav je imel. Samo ne, to ni bilo? dobro, lahko da je bil tudi strah, ne bom zdaj govoril, da sem pogumen 膷lovek, ampak kot umetnik, kot filozof, ni bilo razloga, jaz bom v zaporu, kaj bi z njim. </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:24:22/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:24:22/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00036706.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:24:22/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:24:22/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s12', 'play/11248235/0:24:22/', 'images/v11248235/00036706.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s12">Ampak Pu膷nik je bil realen 膷lovek, zelo na tleh, zdaj bo 50 let, kar je revija objavila tisto njegovo razmi拧ljanje, ki je bilo napad na partijski program in potem je pet let dobil zapora, 7 let, 5 let je odsedel, vi ste, ko je pri拧el iz zapora, ste stali za njim, kot da se ni ni膷 zgodilo. V 60ih letih je pa on v Perspektivah napisal tisti 膷lanek, kritika kmetijske politike, tedaj je pa spet dobil zapor in ste se spet oddaljili od njega. O tem govorite? <br/> </p></div><div class="para"><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:25:3/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:25:3/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s13', 'play/11248235/0:25:3/', 'images/v11248235/00036706.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s13">Beseda oddaljili od njega? <br/>Ostal je sam, bom druga膷e rekel. To je res po letu 66 je ostal sam. To je v 膷lanku, ki sem bil jaz tisti, ki ga je motiviral, da ga je napisal. Ker nih膷e iz na拧e grupe ne Zajc, ne 艩eligo, ni hotel to politiko, da bo 拧el takoj znova v zapor, ker ni videl razloga. Zapustili nismo <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nika</a> kot osebe, nismo pristajali na njegov radikalizem v politi膷nem pomenu. Nekaj moram povedati 拧e. Ko so <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nika</a> zaprli, noben od nas ni pri膷akoval, da ga bodo zaprli, niti sam ni pri膷akoval. Nekaj dni pred tem so mu rekli, ne bomo vas zaprli. In potem, ko so ga zaprli, smo mi predelovali Pu膷nikovo ime v nekaj posebnega. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona')); return false;"> Antigona</a> je ene vrste Pu膷nik. Simon v Aferi je neke vrste Pu膷nik. Ampak seveda to ni isti Pu膷nik, kot je bil v realiteti ne v zaporu, ne kasneje, ampak to je <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nik</a>, ki je bil prirejen na拧im pogledom, na拧im vrednotam itn. Mi nismo hoteli Perspektiv vzeti, ko nam jih je Krager ponudil, 膷e nam ne re膷e <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nik</a>, se strinjam, in je Smole zahteval od Borisa Krajgerja, takoj naj gre v zapor k Pu膷niku in mu je povedal Pu膷niku in je rekel ja. Se pravi, mi smo bili v tem pogledu mu zvesti, ampak smo 拧li svojo linijo. <br/>Torej va拧a linija je bila vendarle tako, malo nagajati oblasti, ne pa tudi, oblast je vedela to. <br/>Ve膷 kot predale膷. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:27:14/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:27:14/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00042314.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:27:14/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:27:14/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s14', 'play/11248235/0:27:14/', 'images/v11248235/00042314.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s14">Je vedela, da ne boste 拧li predale膷 in zato od vas tudi ni noben sedel zaradi pedigreja. Pu膷nika pa je oblast spoznala, da ji je nevaren. <br/>Ampak ne gre samo za nagajanje. <br/>Tudi sedaj v 90, 80- ih letih je ta levica biv拧a levica, na Pu膷nika 拧e vedno tako gledala. Tudi 拧e zdaj se je zdel 拧e vedno nevaren. <br/>Res je. Toda ni 拧lo samo za nagajanje, to je zelo va啪no re膷i, nagajanje bi bilo ene vrste igra z oblastjo. Ne. Mi smo imeli drugo strategijo. To je tista strategija, ki se je potem formulirala pri mladini, zavzeti oblast, skozi institucije. Mi smo ravno v institucije 拧li in smo dobili Perspektive kot revijo in v tej reviji smo ogromno pisali ideje, ki so bile popolnoma razli膷ne od marksisti膷nih, eksistencialisti膷ne itn. Se pravi, mi smo hoteli vzpostaviti idejno platformo, ki bi bila alternativna partijski, to nikakor ni nagajanje, oblast je bila drugorazredna stvar pri tej na拧i 啪elji, da ustvarimo en svoj svet in do neke mere smo ga tudi, 膷e ne bi imeli revije, ga pa ne bi.- 膶e govoriva recimo o <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odra" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odra')); return false;"> Odru</a> 57, tam ste kot ste 啪e omenili, uprizorili pomembne stvari. Smoletovo Antigono, Kozakove zgodbe, Afero mislim, da ste celo vi re啪irali. <br/>Dramaturg se bil. <br/>Vi pravite ja, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona')); return false;"> Antigona</a> je bila pravzaprav prispodoba, simboli膷no prikrit <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nik</a> v tej gr拧ki mitolo拧ki igri, ampak dr. Koruza tudi o tem veliko razpravlja in pravi, saj ni bilo nekih velikih vsebin za tem. Ampak bom nekaj drugega vpra拧al. Ravno Smole, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominika" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominika')); return false;"> Dominik</a> Smole, va拧 prijatelj, on je napisal Krst pri Savici in tole <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona')); return false;"> Antigono</a>, obakrat 膷lovek, ko to bere ima ob膷utek, da je zadaj vendarle poboj domobrancev. Ali vi ne vidite tega. </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:29:34/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:29:34/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00045122.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:29:34/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:29:34/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s15', 'play/11248235/0:29:34/', 'images/v11248235/00045122.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s15">Ja, seveda, saj sem tudi o tem pisal, brez dvoma, samo niso v prvi vrsti domobranci. Stali拧膷e mene in Dominika Smole, ker sem spremljal nastajanje drame je, da sta Etiokles in Polinejkes oba kriva, to sta brata dvoj膷ka, ki sta drug drugega za啪rla, po啪rla in na啪rla do kraja, oba sta enako vredna. Antigona je pa dejstvo, da je Kreon z zapovedjo, k ukazom, da se ne pokoplje Polinejka, lahko bi za Etiokla veljalo vse enako. S tem ukazom je pokazal ljudem, da sem smete, ve膷 pa ne. Mi smo pa seveda hoteli iti 膷ez, eden 拧e bolj 膷ez, eden manj 膷ez. Glejte, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubanci" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kubanci')); return false;"> Kubanci</a> so 拧li 膷isto 膷ez, to ni dale膷 iti 膷ez, samo na sebi iti 膷ez mejo, samo na sebi to ni pozitivno, treba je videti, kaj sledi iz te redikalnosti. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:30:40/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:30:40/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00046050.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:30:40/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:30:40/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s16', 'play/11248235/0:30:40/', 'images/v11248235/00046050.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s16">Krajger recimo, ki je bil takrat predsednik vlade, ki je seveda tisti, ki je naredil pogrom proti <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revija" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revija')); return false;"> Reviji</a> 57 in vam, on je bil dvojna osebnost, kot nekateri drugi, recimo Kav膷i膷 in mnogi drugi, on je potem, ko je videl Pu膷nika so spravili, zdaj je treba nekako vam vendarle omogo膷it eksistenco, on je pri拧el in vam pomagal, pri拧el in dal denar za Perspektivo in ko je ta Antigona se igrala na Odru 57 je bil Krajger najbr啪 tisti, ko so bili vsi tiho in je on prvi zaploskal. <br/>Ja, tako je. <br/>Zanimivo. <br/>Izredno mo膷an politik, stra拧no dvoumen, Krajger je leta 1948 bil glavni za te re膷i, vse je preko njega 拧lo. Potem je bila pa prvi in dosti udbovcev je takrat v to 拧lo, ker so videli zadevo v realiteti, kot Ziherl v dogmatskih predstavah, je 拧lo v to, da so za膷eli obra膷ati in odpirati. Zdaj pa kaj lahko re膷em, prekleti komunist, samo farba拧 nas, smo zoper, lahko pa re膷e拧 odli膷no, ti nam nekaj nudi拧. </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:31:57/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:31:57/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00048767.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:31:57/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:31:57/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s17', 'play/11248235/0:31:57/', 'images/v11248235/00048767.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s17">Zato bomo nekaj mi pla膷ali, ampak nam ni bilo treba pla膷ati, ker nam ni bilo do politike. Mi smo po tej plati Krajgerja prevarali, ker na拧a 啪elja ni bila politiki, mi nismo s stisnjenimi zobmi sprejeli tega, to ne, mi smo pisali in skozi leta je nastala Afera, razli膷ne vrste dram, vi ste prej uporabili nagajivost, ja, besedo, te drame <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona')); return false;"> Antigona</a> in tako naprej, iz nagajivosti ne bi nastale, ampak iz eksistencialne situacije, ki se je tudi normalno poznala. Veljka <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusi" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusi')); return false;"> Rusa</a> so recimo vrgli iz univerze, ni mogel dobiti slu啪be. Se pravi, to so bile stvarne re膷i. 膶eprav je bil njegov o膷e predsednik slovenske skup拧膷ine, mislim, da ni bistveno ni膷 vplivalo na to, ali ga bodo zaprli ali ne. Nasprotno, starega Rusa niso marali, ga politika ni marala in je bilo tudi ta linija, ki je rekla, ravno Veljka moramo pritisniti, da poka啪emo staremu Rusu, kaj smo. Primo啪a <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozak" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozak')); return false;"> Kozaka</a> o膷e, dobro, on je leta 57 umrl, je imel zelo, zelo majhno mo膷. <br/>Njegov o膷e je bil minister za kulturo? <br/>Ne, podpredsednik skup拧膷ine, ampak to so bili ljudje brez mo膷i. Mo膷 zadaj so imeli Krajger, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vida_Tom拧i膷" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vida_Tom拧i膷')); return false;"> Vida Tom拧i膷</a>, Janez Vipotnik in tako naprej. <br/>Pa potem Kav膷i膷. Recimo <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan')); return false;"> Stane</a> Kav膷i膷 je nekako vas tudi toleriral, ko je bilo treba je Perspektivo ukinil. <br/>Politik enkrat tako, enkrat tako. Mi ga sedaj hvalimo, da je sijajen je bil, da je to delal, ampak on ne bi takrat obstal, 膷e ne bi nas likvidiral. Vsak politik mora imeti umazane roke in konflikt, ki je bil pri nas v Perspektivah je dejstvo. V eno srbsko revijo je napisal en srbski pisatelj, mislim, da Radomir Konstantinovi膷 pod naslovom, Neko mora nositi sme膷e. <br/>Ali cvije膷e? <br/>Ne, ne to ne, tisto je lahko. Torej, eden mora imeti umazane roke. Pravzaprav je Sarter tudi umazane roke na to 拧el, Smole je pa v Antigoni naredil res skrajno, idealizirano, plemenito osebo. In pa zelo pomembno, to je razlika s Pu膷nikom ali nem拧ko razno neolevico, da ima <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigona')); return false;"> Antigona</a> idejo samo slediti svoji vesti, svoji svobodi, ona ni imela v programu, Smoletova Antigona, ru拧it, ampak samo Polinejka pokopati ker to smatra za svojo eti膷no dol啪nost, ne pa vzbuditi nikakr拧ne politi膷ne akcije. <br/>Zato sem jaz prej omenil to paralelo s pobitimi domobranci. Za to je 拧lo. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:35:4/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:35:4/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00053257.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:35:4/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:35:4/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s18', 'play/11248235/0:35:4/', 'images/v11248235/00053257.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s18">Saj mi nismo bili, za partizane je 拧lo spet razlomljeno, za partizane smo v glavnem bili vsi, pa ne 膷isto, kak拧ni malo manj. <br/>Vi ste bili proti kot vam Vidmar in Javor拧ek o膷itata. <br/>Javor拧ek se je izmi拧ljeval. <br/>Oni so imeli socialisti膷no linijo, ti recimo Javor拧ek, Vidmar, Kosma膷, Potr膷, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi拧ko_Kranjec" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi拧ko_Kranjec')); return false;"> Mi拧ko Kranjec</a>. <br/>To je bil konflikt. Ampak v osnovah smo mi leta 58 bili na liniji OF partizanstva. To je jasno, tudi take ljudi smo vabili, da pi拧ejo spomine. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek')); return false;"> Kocbeka</a>, Zupana, Haceta, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kralj" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kralj')); return false;"> Kralja</a>. Saj je bil tipi膷en izbor levih intelektualcev. Je pa res, da po letu 65, smo se pa bolj bli啪ali, ali vsaj jaz, zdaj pa zelo razli膷no, dopu拧膷anju domobranstva. Ker jaz sem pa intereriziral oba, sem sku拧al ponotranjiti oba, Etieokla in Polinejka, biti, igrati, 啪iveti obe vlogi in eksistenci. Kar je zelo te啪ko, je shizofreno, ampak to je moja osebna odlo膷itev bila in na tem vztrajam 拧e danes. <br/>Glejte, zelo pomembna predstava <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odra" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odra')); return false;"> Odra</a> 57, kon膷na predstava, Ro啪an膷eva <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/U膷inek_tople_grede" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/U膷inek_tople_grede')); return false;"> Topla greda</a>. Vse to ni bilo ni膷 hudega, proti Antigoni ma膷ji ka拧elj. Ampak to je oblast tako znerviralo, da vas je ukinila. 艩lo je za en nov scenski pristop, vsebinski. Naj se gledalci in akterji nekako me拧ajo med seboj. Bil je pravi hec. Ampak kaj se je potem zgodilo. Kaj se je zgodilo tedaj. Pripeljali so ljudi iz, igra govori o agrokombinatu, ki nam <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenci')); return false;"> Slovencem</a> ni bil pisan na ko啪o in v tem agrokombinatu so se 膷udne stvari dogajale, v tem opisanem in potem so res pri拧li delavci iz grosupeljskega Agrokombinata, ki so vas vrgli dol iz odra. </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:37:27/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:37:27/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00057286.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:37:27/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:37:27/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s19', 'play/11248235/0:37:27/', 'images/v11248235/00057286.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s19">Ja. Danes, seveda z dana拧njega vidika je to res ma膷ji ka拧elj. Iz vidika soo膷enja s smrtjo, kakr拧en je bilo med vojno, 1941 do leta 45, je to res ma膷ji ka拧elj. Iz druge plati, 膷e bi takrat 啪iveli, pa to ni bil ma膷ji ka拧elj, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo啪e_Pu膷nik')); return false;"> Pu膷nika</a> so 啪e zaprli, se je vedelo, da je lista.. Ne, govorim o vsebini. Druga膷e vem, da bi. <br/>Seveda ni mogo膷e zdaj lo膷iti od celote od konteksta. Lista 50 ljudi, ki naj bi jih zaprli. 50, malo je bilo pritiska tako se je govorilo, pa vendar je 拧lo za Oder 57 takrat pod vodstvom Andreja Inkreta, Vida Tauferja v to predstavo, ki ni terjala boja, ampak dialog. Ampak dialog dobesedno. In ni bilo samo tako, prosim diskutirajte, 膷e si ga hvalil je bila diskusija, 膷e ne, aha, kdo je ta. Ne, to je bil resni膷en dialog, partija je pa takrat ni bila sposobna prenesti. <br/>Inkret, ko ga 啪e omenjate, Inkret je rekel ravno za to predstavo, za Oder 57, vzeli smo si neverjetno veliko svobodo. <br/>Izredno dosti. Ampak isto膷asno si je pa politika vzela 拧e ve膷 svobode, volje, arogance. <br/>Ni svoboda, tisto je pa samovolja. Nikakor ne smemo gledati tega kot ma膷ji ka拧elj. Kajti iz tega vidika bi bilo vse ma膷ji ka拧elj, kot nam je 啪e kdo prej o膷ital, kar ni obsojeno na smrt. <br/>Poglejte, 膷e omenim nekatere va拧e sodobnike, ki so nekako veliko pripomogli k va拧emu oblikovanju, ki so z vami sodelovali, ki jih dosti omenjate. Zupan, Pirjevec, Mrak, Slodnjak, to so ljudje, ki jih postavljate v sam vrh, ob Cankarju. Med pomembne Slovence. <br/>Visoko. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:39:28/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:39:28/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00059532.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:39:28/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:39:28/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s20', 'play/11248235/0:39:28/', 'images/v11248235/00059532.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s20">Zelo visoko. Pirjevec, zakaj je recimo Pirjevec imel eno tako karizmo enega takega vodje na univerzi toliko posnemovalcev, toliko u膷encev, vendar Pirjevec je bil v marsi膷em 膷uden 膷lovek. 膶e se spominjate kaj je med vojno delal. On je bil med vojno nasilnik. <br/>Tudi. Prvi膷, med vojno je bilo zelo te啪ko pre啪iveti na tako izpostavljenih pozicijah, kakr拧no je dala partija Pirjevcu kot politik komisarju, ki je bil politi膷no odgovoren za vsa podro膷ja, pre啪iveti, 膷e nisi bil trd. </p></div><div class="para"><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:40:6/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:40:6/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s21', 'play/11248235/0:40:6/', 'images/v11248235/00059532.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s21">膶uvajte kadre, to ni bila fraza. Drugi膷, Pirjevec je bil po naravi, je imel karizmo. Ko je pri拧el iz partitanov, letnik 21, je bil sekretar na CK- ju ideolo拧ke komisije. Zelo va啪na oseba, potem so ga zaprli, potem se je govorilo o njegovih spolnih in ne vem kak拧nih prekr拧kih, to je bilo zanimivo, ker spolnost ni smela niti v 膷asopise, ker je tako vznemirjujo膷e. <br/>So bile potem bolj pomembne te igrice, ki sta se jih 拧la <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan')); return false;"> Zupan</a> in Pirjevec z oblastjo? <br/>Tudi, tudi sta se jih 拧la. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan')); return false;"> Zupan</a> je hodil k njemu v gostilno in ga je za膷el " verbovat ", za Ozno, pa kaj je naredil, na gobec ga je mahnil. To so bili res Zupanovi na膷ini eksistence, jasno, da se je zameril vsem. 膶e greva k Pirjevcu nazaj. Potem je bil zaprt. Potem se je spet pribli啪al partiji, zelo, Borisu Krajgerju, potem je bil nasprotnik Perspektiv, potem, ko je videl, kam gre ta njegova sodobnost, 拧tihovska linija, se je 膷isto pribli啪al Perspektivam. Sta se spet znova spoprijateljila. Potem je pa predaval na univerzi. On je imel edinstveno prilo啪nost, je to izkoristil in naredil na univerzi res nekaj edinstvenega, samo ra膷unajte, nekateri so mu o膷itali, da samo retorizira in partija je res videla, ni 拧el 膷ez mejo in konec dru啪bene politi膷ne akcije. To so njegovi u膷enci tudi stran vrgli na koncu. Konec akcij, je govoril, zato ga je partija tudi pustila, je rekla, vidite, ampak to lahko gledate kot njegovo negativno lastnost. Lahko, ampak on je pa s tem dosegel, da je pa lahko govoril 拧tudentov nekaj let dan na dan druge stvari. To je 啪ivljenje, to je politika osebna, tukaj nekaj mora拧 popu拧膷ati. </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:42:11/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:42:11/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00063326.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:42:11/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:42:11/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s22', 'play/11248235/0:42:11/', 'images/v11248235/00063326.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s22">Pu膷nik je bil 膷lovek, ne leta 90, je bil slaven, ne pa ve膷 s partijo, </p></div><br/><div class="para"><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:42:23/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:42:23/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s23', 'play/11248235/0:42:23/', 'images/v11248235/00063326.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s23">je bil do nje, kako bi rekel, ni膷 ni zahteval nobenih represij, konsekvenc, politi膷no sodnih, to je zelo va啪no.- 艩e dva sta recimo, ki sta imela tudi tako karizmo, toliko u膷encev, posnemovalcev. To sta bila Mrak, va拧 prijatelj in <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek')); return false;"> Kocbek</a>. Ja. Vsak spet na svoj na膷in. Gotovo zame trije nadomestni o膷etje in po svetu knjige. Vsak zelo druga膷e. Mrak popolnoma zunaj dru啪be, zato je vplival name. <br/>Zasmehovan. Kako? <br/>Zasmehovan. <br/>Skrajno zasmehovan. <br/>Pora啪en. Iz poraza v poraz je 拧el. <br/>Ja, iz tega je nekaj dosegel. <br/>Iz tega je dosegel nekaj. <br/>Mrak je na mene stra拧no vplival, ker mi je skoz govoril, odkar sva se spoznala, ko sem bil star 13 let. Politiko pusti pri miru, politika je ne, ti mora拧 iti v temeljne stvari, umetnost, bistvo, Bog. In je zelo vplival. Potem v膷asih sva se sprla, ko sem bil v propoliti膷ni fazi, potem sem pa videl, da je imel prav? <br/>In vi ga visoko cenite. <br/>Zelo visoko. <br/>En Javor拧ek ga pa 膷isto v ni膷 da. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:43:34/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:43:34/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00066665.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:43:34/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:43:34/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s24', 'play/11248235/0:43:34/', 'images/v11248235/00066665.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s24">Ja. Javor拧ek je pa posebna zgodba, ki je zdaj skoraj ne moreva? <br/>Kaj pa Kocbek? Javor拧ek je tudi Kocbeka demanciral. Vi to dobro veste, itn. Vi pravite za <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek')); return false;"> Kocbeka</a>, kar je res, da se je predolgo, je imel nek, korekten, oportunisti膷en odnos do oblasti in oblast je to izkori拧膷ala. 艩ele leta 51 je s tem strahom in pogumom oblasti nekaj povedal. Prej je pa predolgo 膷akal. <br/>Mi, ki smo bili zunaj brez teh informacij, nismo vedeli, kako je <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kocbek')); return false;"> Kocbek</a> 啪e ves 膷as kontriral partiji s svojo idejo v isto usmerjanje, kot je govoril. On je imel tudi neke govore v skup拧膷ini, kjer je zelo jasno svoje drugo stali拧膷e pokazal. To takrat ni bilo na zunaj, mi smo bili, jasno fantje 20- ih let, mi smo zahtevali takrat velike geste, velike 啪rtve in te Kocbek ni naredil. On si je nekako podzavestno naredil situacijo, da so ga po zidu in pogumu udarili. Sam pa ni 啪elel iti v konflikt. <br/>Ni bil zadosti odlo膷en. On je 拧el tako, 膷e je bila oblast prijazna do njega, je bil tudi on prijazen. To je bil ta njegov oportunizem. <br/>Prijazen. Beseda tudi morda tudi ni 膷isto to膷na. Je bil kooperativen, 膷e so mu pustili, da lahko svoje ideje izra啪a. Ampak kooperativni smo bili tudi mi, ker se spra拧ujemo tudi danes, zakaj ne bi bil jaz kooperativen z oblastjo, ki mi dopu拧膷a izra啪aje in svobodo. Zato sem tudi z dana拧njo kooperativen, saj ne vzpostavljam ilegalne organizacije, ki bi jo vrgla. Eno je prijaznost, prijaznost ima preve膷膷ustev zraven. Kocbek je bil po tem smislu tudi politi膷ar, je dobro izra膷unal, ampak po mojem mi拧ljenju sijajno. Se umikam toliko in toliko, da lahko to povem, potem pa ni imel ve膷 umika, ni smel ve膷 povedati oz. kar je povedal, so potolkli in je 拧el v konflikt, nerad. </p></div><div class="para r"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:45:59/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:45:59/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00069390.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:45:59/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:45:59/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s25', 'play/11248235/0:45:59/', 'images/v11248235/00069390.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s25">Glejte, gospod Krmauner, vi pravite, Mrak recimo, mi je vedno govoril o smrti, vi osebno, ko vas berem, veliko razmi拧ljate o smrti. Pravite, kamorkoli se ozrem, nikogar ve膷 ni. Vsi moji prijatelji, vsi moji sodobniki, z izjemo Kosa, Petra <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo啪i膷" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo啪i膷')); return false;"> Bo啪i膷a</a>, so 拧e 啪ivi, druga膷e so pa vsi 拧li, so pomrli. Nekaj vas bom vpra拧al, vi veste tista 60. leta. Tudi va拧 brat- samomor. Pa mogo膷e Slonjak, pa mladi <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kardelj" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kardelj')); return false;"> Kardelj</a>, pa dva Dedijera, to je bilo obdobje, ko je bilo polno mladih samomorov, etabliranih ljudi s pedigrejem, kaj je bilo to? </p></div><div class="para"><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:46:55/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:46:55/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s26', 'play/11248235/0:46:55/', 'images/v11248235/00069390.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s26">Ogromno sem se s tem ukvarjal, ker razumljivo, brat mi je bil najljub拧a osebna na svetu, nimam pravega odgovora. V膷asih res nastopi ena dru啪bena klima, to je bilo takrat okrog leta 65. in Javor拧ek pravi? <br/>No, pa Javor拧kov sin tudi. Ja, Javor拧kov sin tudi, takrat je govoril prekleta oblast in prekleti njegovi zapeljivci. Oblast, 45 leta ni noben delal samomora, 66 ja, torej je moralo nastopiti ogromno enih, torej delali so samomor, ampak iz 膷isto drugi generacij, partizani so se razo膷arali, zapili, kakorkoli, to Marko Slodnjak je naredil samomor leta 84, to je precej kasneje, Kardelj Borut leta 71, to so v razli膷nih epohah, v 膷loveku je gotovo ena 啪elja po samouni膷enju. V meni je zelo velika in se moram boriti proti njej. <br/>Ali so bile te pro拧nje njihovih star拧ev premo膷ne, so jim pobrale preve膷 kisika? To je zelo te啪ko re膷i. Borut <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kardelj" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edvard_Kardelj')); return false;"> Kardelj</a> je bil 膷udovit fant, brez dvoma, on je bil razklan med Vitomila Zupana in svojega o膷eta. In se je zgodilo, da je bil v isti no膷i pri Zupanu in mu je Zupan razlo啪il stvari tako in tako in se je odpeljal z avtom, ne ve膷 ravno trezen k o膷etu v Vi啪marje, mu je o膷e tako razlo啪il, se je peljal k <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan')); return false;"> Zupanu</a> nazaj, to mi je <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitomil_Zupan')); return false;"> Zupan</a> pripovedoval in se je spet nazaj, 2 krat, trikrat. Je bil razcepljen med tem. Marko Slotnjak je bil tudi razcepljen, morda so bili 拧e drugi vzroki. Moj brat, jaz sem se uprl svojemu o膷etu in materi, uprl, ker sem agresiven tip. Moj brat 啪al ni bil agresiven tip in se je umaknil in je potem to agresijo, bil agresiven, bil silno fejst poba, da je to obrnil zoper sebe. <br/>Pa so vse te stvari recimo, pa ti razhodi s prijatelji, sodobniki, ki vas niso mogo膷e vedno razumeli, razlog, da ste vi recimo dosti v poznih letih se zbli啪ali s Cerkvijo, za膷eli verovati. <br/>Tudi.- 膶eprav kasneje izvem, da <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerkev" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerkev')); return false;"> Cerkev</a> vas ne zanima ve膷, da vas zanima samo Bog. </p></div><div class="para l"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:49:20/" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:49:20/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/images/v11248235/00074064.jpg" class="key" onmouseover="po_on(this)" onmouseout="po_off(this)" alt="slika"/></a><div class="quicklinks"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:49:20/" title="Predvajaj" onclick="return sp2('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/play/11248235/0:49:20/')"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/play.png" alt="Predvajaj"/></a><a href="javascript:quote_display('s27', 'play/11248235/0:49:20/', 'images/v11248235/00074064.jpg')" title="Citiraj"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/static/quotes.png" alt="Citiraj"/></a></div><p id="s27">Res je. No, jaz sem v tistem 膷asu, ko se je velika ve膷ina in skoraj vsi moji prijatelji odlo膷ali za slovensko nacionalni boj, to so 80. leta, sem jaz pribli啪no vedel, kam pelje ta dru啪bena akcija, ker sem enkrat do啪ivel med 41 in 45 letom. In me je 啪e na za膷etku 80ih let za膷el Bog kot transcendenca, kot tisto onkrajno za膷el privla膷evati vedno bolj in vedno bolj in potem sem se seveda precej ukvarjal z drugim <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatikanski_koncil" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatikanski_koncil')); return false;"> Vatikanskim koncilom</a>, in jaz sem po tej plati na膷elen, investiram, kadar le morem, sem investiram tudi v slovensko Cerkev, ki se je zelo druga膷e obna拧ala v 80- ih letih, kot se danes, v to prenovljeno, jaz sem govoril evangelijsko <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerkev" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerkev')); return false;"> Cerkev</a>. Notranjo, NKC, proti zunanji <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerkev" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerkev')); return false;"> Cerkvi</a>, vse ideje, ki sem jih takrat govoril, 拧e danes zame veljajo, samo mislim, da se jih Cerkev, 啪al, ne dr啪i. In ko sem po letu 91 videl, kako se vra膷a k tisti predvojni, ki je pa seveda nisem maral, tudi lastni拧ki in oblastni拧ki in zelo zunanji. Pred vojno je vsaj mnogo ljudi silno fanati膷no verovalo. Danes pa komaj koga sre膷am, od Katoli膷anov, ki bi zares veroval. To so zgolj karitativci, tisti so dale膷 najbolj拧i, potem sem se pa zelo umaknil od nje. To je moje 啪ivljenje, ker jaz nisem 拧el v Cerkev zaradi moje koristi. Ker potem bi 拧el leta 95, ne leta 80. Jaz leta 95, ko je <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerkev" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerkev')); return false;"> Cerkev</a> pri拧la, no na oblast ravno ne, ampak je dobila mo膷ne pozicije, sem izhajal iz nje. Odhajal od nje. Zelo druga膷e. Moj ritem je moj ritem in je treba zmeraj pogledati, kje je dru啪ba in kje sem jaz. <br/>Naj bo dovolj gospod Kermauner, tole kar sva zdajle govorila je bilo zelo telegrafsko, midva bi potrebovala pravzaprav trikrat toliko 膷asa, da bi dolo膷ene stvari povedala. Hvala lepa, za vrnitev po 25ih letih in ve膷 na na拧o televizijo in 拧e kdaj na svidenje. <br/>Hvala. Nasvidenje. <br/> </p></div></div></div> <div class="content_bottom"> <div class="show_navigation"> <div class="lefttext">Prej拧nja: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/intervju/borut-pahor/">Borut Pahor</a></div> <div class="righttext">Naslednja: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/intervju/katarina-kresal/">Katarina Kresal</a></div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="bottom"></div> </div> </div> </div> </td> <td width="207"> <div id="blogright"> <div class="top2"><div class="toptitle">Po datumu premiere</div></div> <div class="content2"> <p/> <table class="cal1"> <tr> <td colspan="2"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2007/">2007</a></td> <td colspan="2"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/">2008</a></td> <td colspan="2"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2009/">2009</a></td> </tr><tr> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/01/">jan</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/02/">feb</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/03/">mar</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/">apr</a></td> <td>maj</td> <td>jun</td> </tr><tr> <td>jul</td> <td>avg</td> <td>sep</td> <td>okt</td> <td>nov</td> <td>dec</td> </tr> </table> <table class="cal1"> <tr> <th>po</th><th>to</th><th>sr</th><th>膷e</th><th>pe</th><th>so</th><th>ne</th> </tr> <tr> <td class="calother">31</td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/01/">1</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/02/">2</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/03/">3</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/04/">4</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/05/">5</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/06/">6</a></td> </tr> <tr> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/07/">7</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/08/">8</a></td> <td><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/dateview/2008/04/09/">9</a></td> <td>10</td> <td>11</td> <td>12</td> <td>13</td> </tr> <tr> <td>14</td> <td>15</td> <td>16</td> <td>17</td> <td>18</td> <td>19</td> <td>20</td> </tr> <tr> <td>21</td> <td>22</td> <td>23</td> <td>24</td> <td>25</td> <td>26</td> <td>27</td> </tr> <tr> <td>28</td> <td>29</td> <td>30</td> <td class="calother">1</td> <td class="calother">2</td> <td class="calother">3</td> <td class="calother">4</td> </tr> </table> </div><div class="bottom2"></div> <br/> <div class="top2"><div class="toptitle">Predlogi:</div></div> <div class="content2"><div class="vsebina"> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> <div class="ok_linkpanel"> <ul> <li> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=162495" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=162495')); 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return false;" target="_blank"> <img class="related_image" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/upload/Nove%20tehnologije/dvoj_ka_show.jpg"/> Dvoj膷ka z razli膷nima o膷etoma </a> <br/> 28.11.2007 </li> <li> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=157160" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=157160')); return false;" target="_blank"> <img class="related_image" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/upload/Slovenija/boscarol_2_show.jpg"/> Boscarol za MMC: Odlo膷il je Ro啪man </a> <br/> 12.11.2007 </li> <li> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/kultura/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=40482" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/kultura/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=40482')); 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return false;" target="_blank"> Vilfan klju膷 za odpovedi vidi v prej拧njih letih </a> <br/> 30.8.2007 </li> <li> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=146099" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=146099')); return false;" target="_blank"> Krepitev vezi s Slovenci po svetu </a> <br/> 3.7.2007 </li> <li> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=143972" onclick="window.open('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/r_sh/1012/?url=' + encodeURIComponent('https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=rnews&op=sections&func=read&c_id=143972')); return false;" target="_blank"> Aerodrom presene膷en nad imenom </a> <br/> 8.6.2007 </li> </ul> </div>  </div></div><div class="bottom2"></div><br/> <div class="top2"><div class="toptitle">Top 5 oddaj</div></div><div class="content2"><div class="vsebina"> <div class="vrsticax"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/radovedni_tacek/svincnik/" title="Radovedni Ta膷ek: Svin膷nik">Radovedni Ta膷ek: Svin膷nik</a><br/> <div class="zvezdex"> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> </div> </div> <div class="vrsticax"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/za_zadnjim_vogalom/1-3-2008/" title="Za zadnjim vogalom: 1. 3. 2008">Za zadnjim vogalom: 1. 3. 2008</a><br/> <div class="zvezdex"> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> </div> </div> <div class="vrsticax"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/intervju/dr-tine-hribar/" title="Intervju: dr. 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Tine Hribar</a><br/> <div class="zvezdex"> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> </div> </div> <div class="vrsticax"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/duhovni_utrip/fenomen-braco/" title="Duhovni utrip: Fenomen Braco">Duhovni utrip: Fenomen Braco</a><br/> <div class="zvezdex"> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> </div> </div> <div class="vrsticax"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/odprtikop/hribar/29-3-2008/" title="Hribar: 29. 3. 2008">Hribar: 29. 3. 2008</a><br/> <div class="zvezdex"> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_full.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://img.rtvslo.si/modules/themes/rtv-v3/img/star_empty.gif" alt=""/> </div> </div> </div></div><div class="bottom2"></div><br/> </div> </td> </tr> </table> </div>   <div id="copyrights" align="center">© RTV Slovenija (ISSN 1581-372X) | <a href="/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=static&c_menu=1066223101">FAQ</a> | <a href="/web/20080411030937/http://www.rtvslo.si/modload.php?&c_mod=static&c_menu=1149242211">Kolofon</a> | 1999-2007 | Vse pravice pridr啪ane</div>  </div>  </div>  <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/statsstats/rtv_stats3.php?url=%2Fmodload.php%3F%26c_mod%3Dodprtikop" border="0" height="0" width="0" alt=""/> <script type="text/javascript">mtk_ieupdate();</script>  <script src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937js_/http://www.google-analytics.com/urchin.js" type="text/javascript"> </script> <script type="text/javascript"> _uacct = "UA-641513-1"; urchinTracker(); </script> <script type="text/javascript">  </script> <noscript> <img width="1" height="1" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://www.rtvslo.si/statsstats/rtvms.php?site=rtvslo&link=%2Fodprtikop&js=0"> </noscript> <script type="text/javascript">  </script> <noscript> <img width="1" height="1" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080411030937im_/http://moss.aragon.si/nc/px.gif?site=rtvslo&js=0"> </noscript> </body></html>