CINXE.COM

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"><html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /><title>LKML: Matthias Andree: Re: what is our answer to ZFS?</title><link href="/css/message.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" /><link href="/css/wrap.css" rel="alternate stylesheet" type="text/css" title="wrap" /><link href="/css/nowrap.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" title="nowrap" /><link href="/favicon.ico" rel="shortcut icon" /><script src="/js/simple-calendar.js" type="text/javascript"></script><script src="/js/styleswitcher.js" type="text/javascript"></script><link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="lkml.org : last 100 messages" href="/rss.php" /><link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="lkml.org : last messages by Matthias Andree" href="/groupie.php?aid=29" /><script> var _paq = window._paq = window._paq || []; /* tracker methods like "setCustomDimension" should be called before "trackPageView" */ _paq.push(["setDoNotTrack", true]); _paq.push(["disableCookies"]); _paq.push(['trackPageView']); _paq.push(['enableLinkTracking']); (function() { var u="//m.lkml.org/"; _paq.push(['setTrackerUrl', u+'matomo.php']); _paq.push(['setSiteId', '1']); var d=document, g=d.createElement('script'), s=d.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; g.async=true; g.src=u+'matomo.js'; s.parentNode.insertBefore(g,s); })(); </script></head><body onload="es.jasper.simpleCalendar.init();" itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="http://schema.org/BlogPosting"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="180" align="center"><a href="/"><img style="border:0;width:135px;height:32px" src="/images/toprowlk.gif" alt="lkml.org" /></a></td><td width="32">聽</td><td class="nb"><div><a class="nb" href="/lkml"> [lkml]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/2005"> [2005]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/2005/11"> [Nov]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/2005/11/21"> [21]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/last100"> [last100]</a> 聽 <a href="/rss.php"><img src="/images/rss-or.gif" border="0" alt="RSS Feed" /></a></div><div>Views: <a href="#" class="nowrap" onclick="setActiveStyleSheet('wrap');return false;">[wrap]</a><a href="#" class="wrap" onclick="setActiveStyleSheet('nowrap');return false;">[no wrap]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/mheaders/2005/11/21/98" onclick="this.href='/lkml/headers'+'/2005/11/21/98';">[headers]</a>聽 <a href="/lkml/bounce/2005/11/21/98">[forward]</a>聽 </div></td><td width="32">聽</td></tr><tr><td valign="top"><div class="es-jasper-simpleCalendar" baseurl="/lkml/"></div><div class="threadlist">Messages in this thread</div><ul class="threadlist"><li class="root"><a href="/lkml/2005/11/21/35">First message in thread</a></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/11/21/83">Matthias Andree</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/11/21/93">Kasper Sandberg</a><ul><li class="origin"><a href="/lkml/2005/11/21/103">Matthias Andree</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/11/21/103">Kasper Sandberg</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/11/22/39">Matthias Andree</a></li></ul></li></ul></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/11/21/331">Bill Davidsen</a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/11/21/245">"jdow"</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/11/22/73">=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rn?= Engel</a></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></td><td width="32" rowspan="2" class="c" valign="top"><img src="/images/icornerl.gif" width="32" height="32" alt="/" /></td><td class="c" rowspan="2" valign="top" style="padding-top: 1em"><table><tr><td><table><tr><td class="lp">Date</td><td class="rp" itemprop="datePublished">Mon, 21 Nov 2005 15:41:50 +0100</td></tr><tr><td class="lp">From</td><td class="rp" itemprop="author">Matthias Andree <></td></tr><tr><td class="lp">Subject</td><td class="rp" itemprop="name">Re: what is our answer to ZFS?</td></tr></table></td><td></td></tr></table><pre itemprop="articleBody">On Mon, 21 Nov 2005, Kasper Sandberg wrote:<br /><br />> > If the precondition is "adhere to CodingStyle or you don't get it in",<br />> > and the CodingStyle has been established for years, I have zero sympathy<br />> > with the maintainer if he's told "no, you didn't follow that well-known<br />> > style".<br />> <br />> that was not the question, the question is if the code is in development<br />> phase or not (being stable or not), where agreed, its their own fault<br />> for not writing code which matches the kernel in coding style, however<br />> that doesent make it the least bit more unstable.<br /><br />As mentioned, a file system cannot possibly be stable right after merge.<br />Having to change formatting is a sweeping change and certainly is a<br />barrier across which to look for auditing is all the more difficult.<br /><br />> > I have had, without hard shutdowns, problems with reiserfs, and<br />> > occasionally problems that couldn't be fixed easily. I have never had<br />> > such with ext3 on the same hardware.<br />> > <br />> you wouldnt want to know what ext3 did to me, which reiserfs AND reiser4<br />> never did<br /><br />OK, we have diametral experiences, and I'm not asking since I trust you<br />that I don't want to know, too :) Let's leave it at that.<br /><br />> > I don't care what its name is. I am aware it is a rewrite, and that is<br />> > reason to be all the more chary about adopting it early. People believed<br />> > 3.5 to be stable, too, before someone tried NFS...<br /><br />> nfs works fine with reiser4. you are judging reiser4 by the problems<br />> reiserfs had.<br /><br />Of course I do, same project lead, and probably many of the same<br />developers. While they may (and probably will) learn from mistakes,<br />changing style is more difficult - and that resulted in one of the major<br />non-acceptance reasons reiser4 suffered.<br /><br />I won't subscribe to reiser4 specific topics before I've tried it, so<br />I'll quit. Same about ZFS by the way, it'll be fun some day to try on a<br />machine that it can trash at will, but for production, it will have to<br />prove itself first. After all, Sun are still fixing ufs and/or logging<br />bugs in Solaris 8. (And that's good, they still fix things, and it also<br />shows how long it takes to really get a file system stable.)<br /><br />> i have had less trouble by using the reiser4 patches before even hans<br />> considered it stable than i had by using ext3.<br /><br />Lucky you. I haven't dared try it yet for lack of a test computer to<br />trash.<br /><br />> there is quite a big difference between stuff like submount and the<br />> filesystem itself.. and as you pointed out, reiserfs in the beginning<br />> was a disappointment, do you seriously think they are willing to take<br />> the chance again?<br /><br />I thing naught about what they're going to put at stake. reiserfs 3 was<br />an utter failure for me. It was raved about, hyped, and the bottom line<br />was wasted time and a major disappointment.<br /><br />> > Yup. So the test and fix cycles that were needed for reiserfs 3.5 and<br />> > 3.6 will start all over. I hope the Namesys guys were to clueful as to<br />> > run all their reiserfs 3.X regression tests against 4.X with all<br />> > plugins and switches, too.<br />> you will find that reiser4 is actually very very good.<br /><br />I haven't asked what I'd find, because I'm not searching. And I might<br />find something else than you did - perhaps because you've picked up all<br />the good things already when I'll finally go there ;-)<br /><br />-- <br />Matthias Andree<br />-<br />To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in<br />the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org<br />More majordomo info at <a href="http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html">http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html</a><br />Please read the FAQ at <a href="http://www.tux.org/lkml/">http://www.tux.org/lkml/</a><br /><br /></pre></td><td width="32" rowspan="2" class="c" valign="top"><img src="/images/icornerr.gif" width="32" height="32" alt="\" /></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="bottom"> 聽 </td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="bottom">聽</td><td class="c" valign="bottom" style="padding-bottom: 0px"><img src="/images/bcornerl.gif" width="32" height="32" alt="\" /></td><td class="c">聽</td><td class="c" valign="bottom" style="padding-bottom: 0px"><img src="/images/bcornerr.gif" width="32" height="32" alt="/" /></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top" colspan="2"> 聽 </td><td class="lm">Last update: 2005-11-21 15:45 聽聽 [from the cache]<br />漏2003-2020 <a href="http://blog.jasper.es/"><span itemprop="editor">Jasper Spaans</span></a>|hosted at <a href="https://www.digitalocean.com/?refcode=9a8e99d24cf9">Digital Ocean</a> and my Meterkast|<a href="http://blog.jasper.es/categories.html#lkml-ref">Read the blog</a></td><td>聽</td></tr></table><script language="javascript" src="/js/styleswitcher.js" type="text/javascript"></script></body></html>