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href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=2">2</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=3">3</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=4">4</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=5">5</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=6">6</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=7">7</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=8">8</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=2">Next »</a></div></div> <div class="pagination">1 - 25 of 182</div> <span class="kicker">Show:</span><form><select value="s" onchange="i=this.options[this.selectedIndex].value; if (i!=0) document.location.search = '?s=' + i"><option value="1" selected> Oldest First </option> <option value="2"> Newest First </option> <option value="3"> Readers' Recommendations </option> <option value="4"> Editors' Selections </option> <option value="5"> Replies </option></select></form> </div> <a name="comment1"></a><div class="comment editorSelection clearfix"> <div class="header"> <div class="sequence">1.</div> <div class="editorInfo"> <a href="?s=4" class="more">All Editors' Selections »</a> EDITORS' SELECTIONS <a href="#" onclick="return false;" onmouseover="tooltip.show(this,'NYTimes editors aim to highlight the most interesting and thoughtful comments that represent a range of views.');" onmouseout="tooltip.rollout();">(what's this?)</a> </div> </div> <div class="main"> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 7:51 am<p><a href="?permid=1#comment1">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">My daughter is a senior and I have been talking to her about the cost of college and how it fits into her life as a whole since 9th grade. Parents should discuss this with their children way before they start looking at colleges. There is life after college and when students borrow more than they should they are limiting their options for the future.<br/><br/>The reason colleges cost so much is because students are willing to go into debt. It is supply and demand. If students weren't willing to borrow so much the colleges could not charge so much.<br/><br/>Also, when you defer the loan, there is still interest accrued and interest is a big expense of the loan.<p class="user">— marilyn, new york</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_1"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 24 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="1"></span> </div> </div> </div> <a name="comment2"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">2.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 7:51 am<p><a href="?permid=2#comment2">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">hi == can you write a column of this sort for someone who is a couple of years out of school and not going to be helped by all the attention being paid to kids GETTING financial aid? I'm three years out of college w/ $90K in debt, about $50 k from private sources, after putting myself through school, working 30 hrs/wk and graduating w/honors....have a very good job but don't have resources I can find to counsel me on how to get a better debt situation. I can't even get through to the bankers! Crazy. Anyway, it would be helpful to find info for the 25-30 year olds. My college -- Boston College, much as I liked it -- has been NO help whatsoever, either when I needed financial aid or now. Don't forget us! Thanks!<p class="user">— Lizzie, Boston</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_2"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 55 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="2"></span> </div> </div> <div class="comment reply clearfix"> <div class="sequence"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449im_/http://graphics8.nytimes.com/favicon.ico"></div> <div class="date">September 07, 2008 2:46 pm</div> <div class="body">Lizzie, sorry you're in a tough spot. I'll definitely be coming back to this topic again. Ron<p class="user">— Ron Lieber, Your Money columnist</p> </div> </div> <a name="comment3"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">3.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 7:51 am<p><a href="?permid=3#comment3">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">I wish someone had explained to me that payments were set by the lenders, not me! I honestly believed that I could set my payments at, say, $200/mo. Imagine my shock when Sallie Mae asked for their first monthly payment of $500!<br/><br/>No one tells kids what they are really getting into. All I heard from the financial aid department was "take out as much as you want! You'll get a good job and paying it off will be easy." $60K in debt later...<p class="user">— Kaitlyn, California</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_3"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 24 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="3"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment4"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">4.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 7:51 am<p><a href="?permid=4#comment4">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">It seems that if a student takes a semester off, she will have the grace period of 9 months not to repay it, but can not then avoid having the interest begin to accrue, even as she resumes school. This makes a huge difference in cost, especially to a freshman who took out a loan expecting it not accumulate interest until she finished graduate school. <p class="user">— Hilary, New York</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_4"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 14 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="4"></span> </div> </div> <div class="comment reply clearfix"> <div class="sequence"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449im_/http://graphics8.nytimes.com/favicon.ico"></div> <div class="date">September 07, 2008 2:46 pm</div> <div class="body">Yes, it's a real problem that there's no pause button for people who take time off. For those who are sick, it may be possible to keep the grace period from expiring though. <p class="user">— Ron Lieber, Your Money columnist</p> </div> </div> <a name="comment5"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">5.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 7:51 am<p><a href="?permid=5#comment5">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">I actually graduated in 2007 and now I'm paying back my student loans. I'm lucky in that my parents helped me a little and I received scholarships and grants so that my debt for undergraduate studies is not crushing. Just beware of the grace periods you have after you graduate; it's 6 months for your Stafford Loans, and 9 months for your Perkins loans. If you consolidate, you often do not get a grace period. Also, if you work for Americorps, you are eligible for an education grant, or if you work in a public school for a number of years, your loans get deferred. I would just recommend that one does not run up a huge student loan debt for undergraduate studies; it is far more worthy to carry a student loan debt for a graduate degree. All in all though, an education is worth borrowing money for. Credit card debt though? NO.<p class="user">— Linna, NYC</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_5"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 9 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="5"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment6"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">6.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 9:00 am<p><a href="?permid=6#comment6">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">“If they went to college, it was probably back in the day when most undergraduate degrees did not leave people with five figures of debt and multiple types of loans.”<br/><br/>Indeed.<br/><br/>When I went to college forty years ago I borrowed money from a federal program. The interest rate was very low, perhaps 3% and did not begin to take effect until several months after I had completed all my education which included spending 5 years in graduate school.<br/><br/>It was very simple and there wasn´t much more I needed to know about the conditions of the loan.<br/><br/>I also worked ten hours a week.<br/><br/>I attended a university whose tuition and expenses for me today would probably be about $30,000 or more.<br/><br/>I had to borrow all of $800.<br/><br/>Make of these facts what you will. I think it says a great deal about the changes in American society over the past 4 decades.<br/><p class="user">— John C, Portugal</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_6"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 42 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="6"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment7"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">7.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 9:00 am<p><a href="?permid=7#comment7">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">Don`t worry about it. Bailout plans are probably in the mill.<p class="user">— Rod, Keswick va</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_7"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 5 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="7"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment8"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">8.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 9:45 am<p><a href="?permid=8#comment8">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">Thanks for raising one of the major deficiencies in high school and college education (maybe even grade school), personal finance. I teach at a tech college, and many students are clueless about managing money and dangers of using credit. One of the military's biggest secrets is the number of soldiers, including officers, in financial trouble. They don't train soldiers on money management, even though military service is usually the person's first full time job. The credit system, including the credit bureau process, is a business that works against true financial health. It's all about monthly payments. People who pay cash are given poor ratings because they have no credit history. The notion of delayed gratification, saving for some desired goal, is not part of the picture. In fact the credit industry is in on the perceived need hustle, like the 84 inch TV for the super Bowl, 12 months same as cash. Education loans are another hustle that put these young people deeper in the hole just as they start out in life. Most baby boomers started out even or a little bit on the plus side. These poor kids today have no concept of the dangers of unsecured debt. <p class="user">— anthony weishar, Fairview Park, OH</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_8"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 23 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="8"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment9"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">9.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 9:45 am<p><a href="?permid=9#comment9">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">In 1996 I completed college as a 31-year old woman. Coming from a poor family I was the first to obtain a college degree, so there was no one to "councel" me through the process. When it came to taking loans, certainly I knew that one is reponsible for one's debts--whether phone bills or educational loans--but paying bills on time is completely different from managing complex financial arrangements. I may have graduated college in 1996, but my real education began about 5 years later when I learned my loans had *doubled*.<br/><br/>At school, I relied entirely on information the financial aid office gave me. I understood nothing about taking or managing loans, as our family never had a mortgage or even car payments. All I knew was that in order to get my degree, I *had* to borrow money (FYI, I also worked nearly full-time). I assumed, so naively, that my school was assembling financial packages to help me acheive this goal--I mean, their objectives are to educate people and empower them for the future, right?<br/><br/>The information they gave me said merely, "you have to pay back these loans". No problem. What they should have explained is how my interest rates could change, which loans accrued interest and which didn't during "deferment" or "forbearance", that not only does interest become principal but also that when it happens it DISqualifies that interest from being tax deductable (!), and how if you consolidate loans with a group like Sallie Mae (as I did), you may lose your ability to lower your rates. Instead of helping to empower me in life, my school helped ensure that a person from a poor family would continue to be poor.<br/><br/>To obtain my Bachelor's degree I was given an 85% academic scholarship, worked nearaly full-time, held an internship, and borrowed just under $18,000 total. That sum is now $55,000 (!) because for the first 5 years after graduation I couldn't afford the lender's "minimum payment" of about $350 a month. When they later made payments more flexible the loans had already doubled as a result of my deferments and forebearances, granted for those 5 years of "economic hardship". Not only will I pay more for my education than it actually cost, but I will also pay extra by way of interest that capitalized, hence lost deductable status.<br/><br/>Just one more way the poor get poorer.<p class="user">— Eva Christensen, NH, USA</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_9"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 79 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="9"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment10"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">10.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 9:45 am<p><a href="?permid=10#comment10">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">I hope that financial aid counselors convey the fact that most student loans are not discharged in a bankruptcy filing. They won't go away just because you get tired of them.<p class="user">— David Pearson, Albuquerque</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_10"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 19 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="10"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment11"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">11.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 9:46 am<p><a href="?permid=11#comment11">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">...try 6 figures...the divorced single mother in this household will most probably be losing her home or living with her daughter in her twilight years due to the fact she herself was uneducated about loans and had to cosign to get a cheaper rate (SALLIE MAE) for her daughter to realize her dream of becoming a physician...funny thing...the father (an NYU MBA) defaulted on a motorcycle loan during the divorce and is deemed a bad risk...hmmmmmm...good manuvering/strategy...I hate motorcycles...<p class="user">— SEL, Ridgefield, CT</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_11"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 8 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="11"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment12"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">12.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:02 pm<p><a href="?permid=12#comment12">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">I really feel like I was adequately counseled on my loans--both public and private, for undergraduate and grad school (both Ivies, so you can imagine what the final tab was). I really can't think of anything else that people could have told me. I think I was pretty fortunate in that my parents really encouraged me to seek outside sources of aid and to work at least 15 hours a week; as a result, my loan burden, although high, is considerably lower than my grad school classmates who took out the entire $50K in loans for both years because they didn't want to work. <p class="user">— JAH, New York, NY</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_12"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"> Recommended by 1 Reader </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="12"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment13"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">13.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:06 pm<p><a href="?permid=13#comment13">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">As a deeply indebted recent graduate of law school, I have to say that your advice is pretty much worthless. Students (like myself) have very minimal options when it comes to choosing which loans to take out.<br/><br/>I took out the maximum on all the government loans, then subsidized by private loans the remainder of what I needed. The amount I could take was set by the school (and in fact the loan was actually paid to the school, not me, then the remainder for my living expenses was forwarded on to me). The terms were set by the lender. Freedom of contract? Are you kidding? I was starting law school after seeing almost all of the literature from the various law schools showing median starting salaries for 100K. Clearly, only a foolish person would not start with the lowest interest, but it quickly gets almost impossible to budget, and you just have to take on faith that a twice a year lump-sum handout of new debt will get you through your expenses of the year as you spend 70 hrs per week on school work.<br/><br/>Then, after I started school there was some counseling which told me. "You won't make as much as we told you that you would, and it is going to be really hard to pay this off." Thanks for a recap of that wonderful advice.<br/><br/>Now, I'm desperately looking for a job to pay off loans that I'm going to be carrying the remainder of my professional life, along with health care and all the other expenses of modern life. Who had the information here? Me, or the lenders? All I can say is, I won't stop paying because I like breaking my word. I'll stop paying because I think I got a raw deal. Thankfully there are no work houses anymore, and I speak Spanish. Perhaps I'll take this illegal immigration thing the other direction.<p class="user">— Mklein, Gambier, OH</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_13"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 48 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="13"></span> </div> </div> <div class="comment reply clearfix"> <div class="sequence"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449im_/http://graphics8.nytimes.com/favicon.ico"></div> <div class="date">September 07, 2008 2:46 pm</div> <div class="body">It is a different deal entirely for graduate students, and the risk is incredibly high for law students especially, who have no guarantee of getting a six figure job offer (or any at all) upon graduation. I'm sorry you're in this situation and hope it will get better. <p class="user">— Ron Lieber, Your Money columnist</p> </div> </div> <a name="comment14"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">14.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:06 pm<p><a href="?permid=14#comment14">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">Ron presents some excellent ideas, but he doesn't go far enough. The problem begins in high school and should be addressed there. While our secondary education system covers many interesting academic subjects, they do so at the expense of critical life issues. Most graduates don't know how to balance a checkbook, or for that matter, why they should.<br/><br/>Counseling sessions taught to incoming freshmen are far too little taught too late. These should become mandatory at the high school senior level for those who plan to apply for student loans of any kind. They can't be simple counseling sessions, but must be full semester courses, and require the attendance of at least one parent who must also pass the course or an evening / weekend equivalent.<br/><br/>The courses must go beyond student loans. We'll need to start with basic finance, the basics of credit, and even cash flow… topics that befuddle even most parents as our current mortgage and credit crises demonstrate. The courses must include topics that discuss budgeting, responsible use of credit, and... dare I say it... self control in the presence of shopping malls and holiday sales events. Simply put, we can't separate the student loan process from the recklessness of credit card debt. Those cards are student loans as well, yet students rarely make that connection.<br/><br/>And -- at the risk of sounding draconian -- I'd recommend firm rules that prohibit those who don't attend and pass the course from entering the loan application process. In fact, I'd like to see that restriction extended to credit card applications as well. Makeup summer sessions (perhaps two for the truly clueless) will obviously be necessary.<br/><br/>Harsh? Perhaps. But I'd rather see a student defer college admission for a year than become another graduate victimized by unending student loan and credit card minimum payments.<br/><p class="user">— Jack Heismann, Washington, DC</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_14"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 19 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="14"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment15"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">15.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:06 pm<p><a href="?permid=15#comment15">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">I wish my school would have offered a short course (4 or 5 week lecture series)on how to adequately manage your student loan debt during the first five years, post graduation. For most people, when you are first out of college, paying student loan debt can be painful becuase it eats up a good chunk of your income. I knew this would be the case though, in adavnce of graduation, so I had time to mentally prepare myself. However, what I did not antcipate was the difficulty in obtaining other loans based on my student loan debt (i.e. car, mortgage). Where I live, a car is not optional, it is a necessity in order to get to work. So, if you student loans hold you back from getting a decent car loan, that is a big deal!<br/><br/>Student loans may also hold you back from obtaining a mortgage. I wish someone at my school would have alerted me to these realities before the bank did when I was applying for my first post-college loans. <p class="user">— GC, Vermont</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_15"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 5 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="15"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment16"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">16.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:06 pm<p><a href="?permid=16#comment16">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">I wish my school had told me that they really don't give a rip if I get a job. At this famous Big 10 school there is no career placement or counselling available from the department and it also doesn't allow working in any capacity during the school year. And they wonder why Alumni caufers are empty. They also beat Sallie Mae to the punch by asking for donations only 2 months after graduation. Most school loans wait six months- and it's their money, but these people who had already taken 120 grand wanted more! Very nice.<br/><br/>Watch out kids: schoool is not about education; it's about profit. SCHOOLS DON'T CARE where it comes from, as long as it's guaranteed. If you go under, it's not their problem.<p class="user">— KK, Chicago</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_16"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 36 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="16"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment17"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">17.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:06 pm<p><a href="?permid=17#comment17">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">I'm a parent, not a student, but my advice to students is: attend a college you can afford. All this hysteria about attending an elite college leads to borrowing through the nose, restricting your options through most of your adult life, and lots of heartache for all involved. Look at what average salaries are for your chosen field - we have an acquaintance who took out $120K in loans and received an education degree - did no one tell him that starting teachers probably cannot afford to service loans of that magnitude, maybe not ever? He's now working two jobs to pay his debts and is essentially in financial ruin.<br/><br/>Seriously, if you have to take out loans over say $15K (and I think even that is too high), and you are planning on studying for a run of the mill liberal arts degree, you need to reconsider where you are going to school. Or you can spend the rest of your adult life beholden to your lenders - literally crushed by debt.<br/><br/>Obviously this advice changes somewhat if your field of study leads to better paying jobs, but even then - think twice about assuming large amounts of debt. Go to a state school, start out in community college, whatever, but don't set yourself up to drown in debt.<br/><br/>Contrarian advice, I realize, but somebody has to say it.<p class="user">— Tina, Springfield OH</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_17"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 90 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="17"></span> </div> </div> <div class="comment reply clearfix"> <div class="sequence"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449im_/http://graphics8.nytimes.com/favicon.ico"></div> <div class="date">September 07, 2008 2:46 pm</div> <div class="body">I think this is exactly right. I left it out of the column only because I was addressing the mandatory counseling that already happens. But by the time you enroll, it's too late (though transferring is always a possibility). Some schools should be saying to families before their kid matriculates that the school just may be too expensive for them. <p class="user">— Ron Lieber, Your Money columnist</p> </div> </div> <a name="comment18"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">18.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:06 pm<p><a href="?permid=18#comment18">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">hehehe but seriously no bailouts for us small guys (for us there is tougher bankruptcy law thanks to our wise (de)regulators and even wiser corporate greaders). School loans is the next bobble, all kids are loading on them and the plan to get people into debt were designed before all this credit crisis. All this consumer (student) credit expansion is the new form of indentured servitude (debt bondage) hey at least I learned something in college! 40$ late fee on credit cards something is wrong c'mon people wake up!<p class="user">— marcin, binghamton, NY</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_18"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 14 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="18"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment19"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">19.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:12 pm<p><a href="?permid=19#comment19">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">The law school I attended, the University of San Francisco School of Law, just processed the loan applications. I was already a mature adult, but thought I would have no problem earning money to repay the loans.<br/><br/>I was completely mistaken. I went blind in one eye during my last semester of law school. Then I discovered there is a glut of attorneys on the market. I wasn't the youngster, top 5% of class,from from a top 100 law school. Furthermore, I am one of the few attorneys with a Ph.D. and work experience in epidemiology. I borrowed $60 K to pay tuition, have paid back about $40K but still owe $88K. I consolidated my loans in 2003 with Direct Loans and am paying 8% interest. In the interim I was diagnosed with cancer(My health insurance runs out in May 2009). Yes, I got the legal education. I am admitted to the California Bar and the patent Bar (MS Microbiology) And I now know how law and empirical science mix worse than oil and water. But I have paid an enormous price and will continue to pay until I die.<p class="user">— Ann Reid Slaby, Berkeley California</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_19"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 46 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="19"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment20"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">20.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:12 pm<p><a href="?permid=20#comment20">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">I graduated from Rutgers in 1980. I had $4,000 in student loans. I managed on work study and the GI bill (when it meant something). I paid the loans off in 1984. Today my daughter is struggling with $40,000 in student loans. They want $700 a month which she can't afford. She is paying $450. They are threatening to garnish her wages. Yes, she's gone the forbearance route. She doesn't make enough money to afford what they demand. She believes that her college education doesn't allow her to marry, have children, own a home. Had we known about this in advance, I would have moved to the state with the cheapest state university. It should be a high school level college prep course. <p class="user">— SMA, CT</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_20"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 36 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="20"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment21"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">21.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:12 pm<p><a href="?permid=21#comment21">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">Dear Students,<br/><br/>1) Be very aware of the new 150% rule found in the recent student loan law called College Access and Cost Reduction Act, which mandates that student loan payments are NOT legally due and payable until the student's income exceeds 150% of their state's poverty line for a family of their particular size.<br/><br/>2) Student loans are dischargeable in bankruptcy if the student has a true undue hardship.<br/><br/>3) Discharges exist for medical conditions and or death.<br/><br/>4) If the student becomes a business owner then student loan collectors will NOT be able to garnish their wages for future payments.<br/><br/>5) Most importantly, most college students do not actually benefit much financially from most of their classes in college. In other words, the market is so saturated with college degrees that the education's ultimate value is very limited within the world of employeeship.<br/><br/>Finally, do everything possible to avoid student loans. Take six years of part time study and work to finish college. Also, consider cheaper schools and or early graduation. Always choose instate schools and forget about the big brand names unless one has a scholarship.<br/><br/>At the end of the day, higher education is nothing more then a business trying to suck as much money as possible out of student's pockets. They abuse their honorary position in society all in the name of some vague future reward, which for most is meager.<br/><br/>Good Luck!<br/><br/>Robert<br/><br/>Washington, DC<p class="user">— Robert, Washington, DC</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_21"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 57 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="21"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment22"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">22.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:12 pm<p><a href="?permid=22#comment22">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">As a single mother I returned to school to get a degree so I could get a 'real' job. I graduated with honors and $40,000 in debt only to find that no one wanted to hire a woman in her 40s who had been out of the job market for years. The loans are still there and growing. The irony is that the education I thought would help me climb out of poverty has guaranteed me a spot there, most likely for the rest of my life. I had to support 5 kids so there was no way to avoid the loans, but for those who CAN make it through without student loans, I would say DON'T TAKE OUT STUDENT LOANS. <p class="user">— lizannes, Corvallis</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_22"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 33 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="22"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment23"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">23.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:51 pm<p><a href="?permid=23#comment23">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">Yes, it is important to treat Student Loans like a class since college is a step toward independence. I think that all schools should teach their students more about this lesson, give more information during their counseling session or online services. So they would know better about Student Loans and figure out what’s happening after few years later. <p class="user">— yyl, NY</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_23"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 3 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="23"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment24"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">24.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 1:51 pm<p><a href="?permid=24#comment24">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">Here is an excellent website to help educate our young people on the exorbitant cost of student loans: (<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://www.affil.org/consumer_rsc/student_loans2.php" target="_blank">http://www.affil.org/consumer_rsc/student_loans2.php</a>)<br/><br/>As a historical fact, charging interest on borrowed money was banned by many governments/leaders over the course of global history. It is because of greedy lenders, bankers and complicit government officials that people of the world have become indebted to usury interest. <p class="user">— Carl Spurchise, Rochester, NY</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_24"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 17 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="24"></span> </div> </div> <a name="comment25"></a><div class="comment clearfix"> <div class="sequence">25.</div> <div class="date">September 06, 2008 3:53 pm<p><a href="?permid=25#comment25">Link</a></p> </div> <div class="body">Another piece of advice: NEVER believe family members who say they will help you pay off your student loans when you finish. I'm not sure why they say they will help, encourage your to take on debt, and then don't help, but it happens pretty often, and it tends to destroy relationships.<br/><br/>Been there . . .<p class="user">— dd, NY</p> <div class="feedback" id="recommendation_25"> <span class="link"><span class="left"> </span><span class="middle"><a href="#" onclick="tooltip.show(this, '<a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Log In</a> or <a href=\"http://www.nytimes.com/gst/regi.html?URI=http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html\">Register</a> to recommend a comment.', -10, 90);dcsMultiTrack('DCS.dcssip','www.nytimes.com','DCS.dcsuri','/article comments/rec.html','WT.ti','Article Comments Rec','WT.z_aca','Rec','WT.gcom','Com');return false;">Recommend</a></span><span class="right"> </span></span><span class="caption"><a href="?s=3">Recommended</a> by 15 Readers </span> </div> <span class="feedback" name="reply" id="25"></span> </div> </div> <div class="row clearfix"> <div class="pagination"><div class="pager"><strong>1</strong> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=2">2</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=3">3</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=4">4</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=5">5</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=6">6</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=7">7</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=8">8</a> | <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20080911075449/http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2008/09/06/business/yourmoney/06money.html?s=1&pg=2">Next »</a></div></div> <div class="pagination">1 - 25 of 182</div> </div> <div id="bozo" class="hide"><div id="CommentSubmitMessageId" class="header"> <span class="alert">Thank you for your comment.</span> Comments are moderated and generally will be posted if they are on-topic and not abusive. 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