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Afegiu l'article per a altres llengües" > <label id="p-lang-btn-label" for="p-lang-btn-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only mw-portlet-lang-heading-empty" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-language mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-language"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Apondre una lenga</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div class="mw-portlet-empty-language-selector-body"> Lo contengut de la pagina non es disponible dins una autra lenga. </div> </div> </div> </header> <div class="vector-page-toolbar"> <div class="vector-page-toolbar-container"> <div id="left-navigation"> <nav aria-label="Espacis de noms"> <div id="p-associated-pages" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-associated-pages" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-nstab-main" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Ping%C3%BCin" title="Veire l’article [c]" accesskey="c"><span>Article</span></a></li><li id="ca-talk" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin" rel="discussion" title="Discussion a prepaus d'aquesta pagina [t]" accesskey="t"><span>Discussion</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown emptyPortlet" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-variants-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Canvia la variant de llengua" > <label id="vector-variants-dropdown-label" for="vector-variants-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">occitan</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="p-variants" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-variants emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> <div id="right-navigation" class="vector-collapsible"> <nav aria-label="Afichatges"> <div id="p-views" class="vector-menu vector-menu-tabs mw-portlet mw-portlet-views" > <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-view" class="selected vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin"><span>Legir</span></a></li><li id="ca-edit" class="istalk vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=edit" title="Modificar lo còdi font d'aquela pagina [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Modificar lo còdi</span></a></li><li id="ca-addsection" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=edit&section=new" title="Començar una seccion novèla [+]" accesskey="+"><span>Apondre un subjècte</span></a></li><li id="ca-history" class="vector-tab-noicon mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=history" title="Los autors e versions precedentas d'aquesta pagina. [h]" accesskey="h"><span>Veire l'istoric</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Eines de la pàgina"> <div id="vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-tools-dropdown" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-tools-dropdown" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Bóstia d'aisinas" > <label id="vector-page-tools-dropdown-label" for="vector-page-tools-dropdown-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet" aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Bóstia d'aisinas</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> <div id="vector-page-tools" class="vector-page-tools vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-page-tools-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-unpinned" data-feature-name="page-tools-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-page-tools" data-pinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-page-tools-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Aisinas</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.pin">mòu a la barra laterala</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-page-tools.unpin">Escondre</button> </div> <div id="p-cactions" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-cactions emptyPortlet vector-has-collapsible-items" title="Mai d'opcions" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Accions </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="ca-more-view" class="selected vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin"><span>Legir</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-edit" class="istalk vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=edit" title="Modificar lo còdi font d'aquela pagina [e]" accesskey="e"><span>Modificar lo còdi</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-addsection" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=edit&section=new"><span>Apondre un subjècte</span></a></li><li id="ca-more-history" class="vector-more-collapsible-item mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=history"><span>Veire l'istoric</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-tb" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-tb" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Generau </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="t-whatlinkshere" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Especial:Paginas_ligadas/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin" title="Lista de las paginas ligadas a aquesta. [j]" accesskey="j"><span>Paginas connèxas</span></a></li><li id="t-recentchangeslinked" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Especial:Seguit_dels_ligams/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin" rel="nofollow" title="Lista dels darrièrs cambiaments de las paginas ligadas a aquesta [k]" accesskey="k"><span>Seguit dels ligams</span></a></li><li id="t-upload" class="mw-list-item"><a href="//commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:UploadWizard?uselang=oc" title="Mandar un imatge o fichièr mèdia sul servidor [u]" accesskey="u"><span>Importar un fichièr</span></a></li><li id="t-specialpages" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/wiki/Especial:Paginas_especialas" title="Lista de totas las paginas especialas [q]" accesskey="q"><span>Paginas especialas</span></a></li><li id="t-permalink" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&oldid=2419880" title="Ligam permanent cap a aquesta version de la pagina"><span>Ligam permanent</span></a></li><li id="t-info" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=info" title="Mai d’informacion sus aquesta pagina"><span>Informacion sus la pagina</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Especial:UrlShortener&url=https%3A%2F%2Foc.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDiscutir%3APing%25C3%25BCin"><span>Obténer una URL acorchida</span></a></li><li id="t-urlshortener-qrcode" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Especial:QrCode&url=https%3A%2F%2Foc.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDiscutir%3APing%25C3%25BCin"><span>Telecargar lo còdi QR</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-coll-print_export" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-coll-print_export" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Imprimir / exportar </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> <li id="coll-create_a_book" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Especial:Libre&bookcmd=book_creator&referer=Discutir%3APing%C3%BCin"><span>Crear un libre</span></a></li><li id="coll-download-as-rl" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Especial:DownloadAsPdf&page=Discutir%3APing%C3%BCin&action=show-download-screen"><span>Telecargar coma PDF</span></a></li><li id="t-print" class="mw-list-item"><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&printable=yes" title="Version imprimibla d'aquesta pagina [p]" accesskey="p"><span>Version imprimibla</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </div> <div id="p-wikibase-otherprojects" class="vector-menu mw-portlet mw-portlet-wikibase-otherprojects emptyPortlet" > <div class="vector-menu-heading"> Dins d'autres projèctes </div> <div class="vector-menu-content"> <ul class="vector-menu-content-list"> </ul> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> </div> <div class="vector-column-end"> <div class="vector-sticky-pinned-container"> <nav class="vector-page-tools-landmark" aria-label="Eines de la pàgina"> <div id="vector-page-tools-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> </div> </nav> <nav class="vector-appearance-landmark" aria-label="Aparença"> <div id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" class="vector-pinned-container"> <div id="vector-appearance" class="vector-appearance vector-pinnable-element"> <div class="vector-pinnable-header vector-appearance-pinnable-header vector-pinnable-header-pinned" data-feature-name="appearance-pinned" data-pinnable-element-id="vector-appearance" data-pinned-container-id="vector-appearance-pinned-container" data-unpinned-container-id="vector-appearance-unpinned-container" > <div class="vector-pinnable-header-label">Aparença</div> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-pin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.pin">mòu a la barra laterala</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-appearance.unpin">Escondre</button> </div> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">Un article de Wikipèdia, l'enciclopèdia liura.</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-talkpageheader"> <div id="talkpageheader"> <div id="talkpageheadertitle"><span id="talkpageheadertitletext">Autras discussions [<a href="/wiki/Especial:Ind%C3%A8x/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin/" title="Especial:Indèx/Discutir:Pingüin/"><span title="Veire totas las sospaginas de discussion">+</span></a>]</span></div> <ul id="talkpageheaderlist"> <li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">Supression</span> - </li><li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">Neutralitat</span> - </li><li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">Drech d'autor</span> - </li><li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">Article de qualitat</span> - </li><li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">Bon article</span> - </li><li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">Lutz sus</span> - </li><li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">De far</span> - </li><li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">Archius</span> - </li><li> <span title="Aquesta pagina existís pas">Traduccion</span> </li></ul> </div> </div><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="oc" dir="ltr"><p>Ai pas enveja de dintrar dins una discussion etèrna sul nom de l'animal. Aquí las referéncias que trapèri sul nom. Lo sit: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.manchots.com/fr/manchots/etymologie.php">http://www.manchots.com/fr/manchots/etymologie.php</a> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="" data-mw-thread-id="h-"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="h-"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=edit&section=1" title="Edita el codi de la secció: "><span>Modificar lo còdi</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>Ce mot date de la fin du 16ème siècle. Plusieurs hypothèses coexistent sur l'origine de ce mot: du gallois pen gwyn signifiant 'tête blanche' (source: Drayton en 1613). Le Grand Pingouin a une petite tâche blanche au niveau des yeux. du latin pinguis signifiant 'gras' </p><p>d'une altération de l'anglais pin-wing en référence à ses ailes rudimentaires. certaines sources évoquent également le nom d'une île à proximité de l'île de Terre-Neuve. </p><p>Les premières traces écrites de ce mot divergent également. On cite: </p><p>une lettre des Terre-Neuve de 1578, repris dans l'ouvrage Hakluyt's voyages le récit de Hore Voyage au Cap Breton (1536) </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-2-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-2-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="h-2-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin&action=edit&section=2" title="Edita el codi de la secció: "><span>Modificar lo còdi</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z-2"></span>Pensi mai coerent de servar lo son [w] retranscrich aital per la part màger de las lengas que coneissi e ai vistas aquí, cresi que cal disseparar çò grafic de çò prononciat e lo catalan coneis pas lo son [y] (e lo francés tanben a ensajat d'escriure [w] pingouin). Faretz çò que voldretz aprèp... (pr'aquò fau saber que generalament las correccions deurián èsser demandadas o son conclusion d'un procès qu'ai pas vist encara aquí per establir de Dieus es Correccions; dins ma correccion de las correccions per exemple ai laissat clima qu'es pas panromanic ja que lo francés es una lenga romanica e senhali que ven d'una forma climatis qu'explica los derivats coma climatic, albiri que climat es estat ja emplegat en occitan e consideri pas que siá una "deca", ni mai de las gròssas e bon personalament lo vau pas cambiar vist que clima es emplegat per quatre o cinc personas contra una majoritat gròssa de climats...) </p><p>Coralament Capsot </p> <hr/> <p>Car Capsot, </p> <ul><li>As rason de dire que i a pas ges de "dieu ès correccion". I a solament una practica normala de la correccion, que cada wikipedian pòt exercir s'a un bòn nivèu de lenga. As tant lo drech de practicar de correccions coma ieu, e ieu ai pas pus aqueu drech que tu, naturalement. E te mercegi de m'aver corregit mai d'un còp. Se tombam pas d'acòrdi sus <i>pingüin/pingoïn</i>, es pas grèu, es pas un mot dau lexic fondamentau, sa codificacion es benlèu pas tant evidenta fin finala; donc es normau d'esitar e de ne discutir. Tanpauc siam pas obligats de i passar tot nòstre temps.</li> <li><i>Pingüin/pingoïn</i> - Prometi qu'explorarai aquela ipotèsi de l'etimologia galesa, que coneissiáu pas (La vesi ben, ara, dins lo Webster en linha). L'etimologia superficiala, en tot cas, ven dau neerlandés <i>pinguin</i> (Dauzat et al., TLFi, Picoche, Zingarelli) o de l'anglés <i>pinguin</i> (Bruguera), mai l'etimologia ultima es escura o ben inconeguda segon aquelei fònts. Vendriá dau galés ultimament? Perqué pas? Aquò càmbia ren au problèma. Tecnicament, me sembla clar per ieu que "pingüin" en occitan se legís /pinˈgwin/ coma "lingüista" se legís /linˈgwistɔ/ (la question de /y/ se pausa pas). La diferéncia <i>pingüin/pingoïn</i> es solament grafica (e superficiala), es pas orala. Se l'intermediari neerlandés o anglés es a l'origina dei formas romanicas, podèm ben preferir d'escriure en occitan <i>gü</i> = /gw/ coma en neerlandés <i>pinguin</i> = /-gw-/, coma en anglés <i>penguin</i> = /-gw-/, coma en catalan <i>pingüí</i> = /gw/ e coma en italian <i>pinguino</i> = /gw/.</li> <li><i>Clima</i> - <i>Clima</i> es una forma occitana viva e atestada en niçard (Castellana), aranés e cisaupenc. L'usatge d'aquela forma va ben pus luenh que tres illuminats. Es una formacion regulara a respècte de la terminason grèga <i>-ma -matos</i> (latinizada en <i>-ma -matis</i>, òc ben). Comparem, amb la meteissa terminason: <i>clima climatic, diplòma diplomatic, tèma tematic, sintagma sintagmatic</i> etc. La formacion <i>climat*</i> es un francisme curiós, irregular e diglossic en occitan e vertadierament excepcionau dins lei lengas romanicas. Enfin, lo CLO s'es prononciat per <i>clima</i>. Vesi pas quin problèma pòt pausar la forma <i>clima</i>, se consideram totei leis elements expausats çai sus.</li></ul> <p>Ben coralament--<a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Aubadaurada" title="Utilizaire:Aubadaurada">Aubadaurada</a> 16 de genièr 2007 a 17:40 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Sei pas segur que quò vos vau ajudar, mas ai vist dins un diccionari lengadocian (malurosament, me sovene pus lo quau...) una traduccion de l'animau en "mal-maridat". Sabe pas se l'etimologia es correcta (malaisat de zo saure, se manca de bestias sus las còstas occitanas...), mas personalament tròbe la fòrma plan poetica, e sei pas lo sol, aparentament.--<a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Dan%C3%ADs" title="Utilizaire:Danís">Danís</a> 24 d'oct de 2007 a 20:11 (UTC) <dl><dd>Après examen menimós de la situacion, la Carta lingüistica demanda d'aplicar lei règlas d'Alibèrt. Ara, Alibèrt demanda dins sa gramatica de s'inspirar dau catalan dins lei questions dificilas d'ortografia per lei neologismes o lei mots de formacion culta. L'occitan deu donc escriure <i>pingüin</i>, en convergéncia amb lo catalan (<i>pingüí</i>), en convergéncia amb la tendéncia majoritària dei lengas romanicas (italian <i>punguino</i>, espanhòu <i>pingüino</i>, portugués <i>pinguim</i>, romanés <i>pinguin</i>) e mai en convergéncia amb l'anglés (<i>penguin</i>) e amb la forma sedimentada de mai d'un diccionari occitan. La grafia <i>pingoïn*</i> es un calc inutil de la grafia francesa <i>pingouin</i>, que nos aluenha de la tendéncia internacionala.--<a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Nil_Blau" title="Utilizaire:Nil Blau">Nil Blau</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Nil_Blau" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Nil Blau">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17 julhet de 2011 a 11.43 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z-2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z-2"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Capsot-2011-07-17T20:13:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z"></span>Son de causas totalament diferentas... L'adaptacion dins las lengas se faguèt en foncion de la prononciacion pas de la grafia coma en francés a mai. Sabes fòrça plan qu'una de las diferéncias màgers entre lo catalan (amb gaireben totas las autras lengas romanicas...) es lo passatge de [u] a [y] (e varianta), las autras lengas doncas an [w] que siá lo catalan, l'italian, lo romanés, l'espanhòl e mai... qu'es marcat graficament -u-; i a pas cap d'influéncia del francés en marcar lo meteis son amb -o- [u] coma lo pronóncian las autras lengas! Es un pauc parièr que çò que critica Joan Francés per çò qu'es de ta transcripcion dels noms de l'alfabet cirillic... Veirem lo vejaire dels autres abans d'implantar de solucions personalas qu'Alibèrt dictèt pas jamai... <a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Utilizaire:Capsot">Capsot</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Capsot">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Capsot-2011-07-17T20:13:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17 julhet de 2011 a 20.13 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Capsot-2011-07-17T20:13:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Capsot-2011-07-17T20:13:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T11:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T20:37:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-17T20:13:00.000Z"></span>En occitan, lo grafèma <i>gü</i> equivau a /gw/, donc lo problèma de l'evolucion de /u/ vèrs /y/ concernís pas lo cas present. Ton acusacion sus lei "solucions personalas" es pas valida: <i>pingüin</i> es ja preconizat dins certanei diccionaris occitans de granda circulacion (Lèbre/Martin/Molin, Lavalada, Rei-Bèthvéder, Ubaud...).--<a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Nil_Blau" title="Utilizaire:Nil Blau">Nil Blau</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Nil_Blau" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Nil Blau">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T20:37:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-17T20:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17 julhet de 2011 a 20.37 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T20:37:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-17T20:13:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T20:37:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-17T20:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Capsot-2011-07-18T06:57:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T20:37:00.000Z"></span>Personalament, te pòdi dire qu'avèm d'astre d'aver pas gaire de mots amb <i>-gü</i>, me pensi pas d'aver ausit degun dire <i>ling[w]istica</i> (ni mai en çò dels preconizadors...) en occitan mas probablament veni sord o capbord... Aquesta "preconizacion" se va plan per de cases coma <i>enqüèra</i> en gascon (ja que <i>-u-</i> a sovent la valor [w] davant una autra vocala...) deu passar fòrça mal dins d'autras varietats (se capita de passar segur...); cal poder/saber sortir del laboratòri de còps que i a, mas es pas grèu se vòstra causida (de granda circulacion! caliá dire coneguts universalament...) fonciona auretz creat <i>ping[y]i</i> e lo mond entièr vos serà plan reconeissent... coma per la transcripcion del cirillic de tot biais amb de causas imprononciablas coma Iuliia Tymoshenko o mai Kyiiv... (a mai me sembla de veire que qualques discussions an desaparegut coma la que i aguèt per Chornobyl...) <a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Utilizaire:Capsot">Capsot</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Capsot">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Capsot-2011-07-18T06:57:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T20:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18 julhet de 2011 a 06.57 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Capsot-2011-07-18T06:57:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T20:37:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Capsot-2011-07-18T06:57:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-17T20:37:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z-2"></span>PS: E per plaser, nos prengas pas per de nècis, te calguèt pas quatre ans per far un "examen menimós" que consistís a dire que cal calcar la grafia catalana! Auriá pas res a veire amb la publicacion del diccionari d'Ubaud que benlèu i participères d'un biais mai o mens implicit/(in)dirècte? per tal d'afortir aquesta posicion/causida <a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Utilizaire:Capsot">Capsot</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Capsot">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18 julhet de 2011 a 07.32 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z-2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z-2"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Capsot-2011-07-19T11:19:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z"></span>Aprèp un examen menimós que durèt un pauc mens de temps que lo precedent e malgrat la referéncia a d'òbras de "granda circulacion", de prestigi internacional e de referéncia normativa incontestabla coma los diccionaris de Lavalada o de Rei-Bethvéder, ai decidit coma autor de l'article e amb almens doas autras referéncias de circulacion interplanetària, e mai probable intergalactica, (diccionaris de Per Noste e del CREO Provença.........) qu'emplegan "pingoïn" de tornar a la version precedenta. Pasmens per mostrar mon esperit de dobertura, se dins l'amassada venenta (que deuriá pas tardar gaire vista la vitalitat de l'èstre...) del Conselh de la Lenga Occitana mai de tres membres decidisson, signan e ratifican que "pingüin" deu èsser/venir la forma normativa acceptarai las modificacions de l'article. <a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Utilizaire:Capsot">Capsot</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Capsot">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Capsot-2011-07-19T11:19:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19 julhet de 2011 a 11.19 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Capsot-2011-07-19T11:19:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Capsot-2011-07-19T11:19:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jfblanc-2011-07-19T12:18:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-19T11:19:00.000Z"></span>Adieu Claudi, Sabi que... mas bon, aquí Domergue Blau a rason: es plan pinguin o pingüin ([pingwin] - la trèma es facultativa) que cal escriure. Ni pingoin [pingujn] nimai pingoïn [pingu'in] pòdon pas rendre la pronóncia occitana corrècta. --— <a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Jfblanc" title="Utilizaire:Jfblanc">Joan Francés B.</a> <sup>(<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Jfblanc" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Jfblanc">me´n parlar</a>)</sup> <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Jfblanc-2011-07-19T12:18:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-19T11:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19 julhet de 2011 a 12.18 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jfblanc-2011-07-19T12:18:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-19T11:19:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jfblanc-2011-07-19T12:18:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-19T11:19:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-19T12:40:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z"></span>Preconizacions dau CLO, p. 35: <i>pingüin/pinguin</i>.</li> <li><i>“Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.”</i> (Max Ehrman, “Desiderata”)--<a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Nil_Blau" title="Utilizaire:Nil Blau">Nil Blau</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Nil_Blau" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Nil Blau">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-19T12:40:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19 julhet de 2011 a 12.40 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-19T12:40:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-19T12:40:00.000Z-Capsot-2011-07-18T07:32:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Capsot-2011-07-19T13:11:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-19T12:40:00.000Z"></span>(conflicte d'edicion...) Las gents agressivas son las que se pensan d'o saber tot e càmbian las causas sens concertacion simplament perque an participat a l'elaboracion del diccionari de Josiana Ubaud per far passar sas preferéncias lingüisticas... Perdona-me Joan Francés mas <i>pinguin</i> pòt pas tanpauc far [gwi] en defòra de dire qu'es una convencion grafica aital, una excepcion dins qualques cases... es a dire que crea una diferéncia artificiala amb la solucion normala [gi] <i>guitarra</i>, <i>Guilhèm</i> "and so on" per far lo lingüista internacionalista, que son la règla "normala" o almens generala de la lenga. Dins una lenga socializada coma lo francés aquestas causidas pausan pas cap de problèma vist qu'ausisses la prononciacion "referenciala" de longa mas per l'occitan genera sonque de problèmas. Las causidas lingüisticas son pas "naturalas" e la logica es discutibla... es per aquesta rason que nos trobam tanben amb de gents que vòlon metre d'accents o de trèmas de pertot... Per ieu, que disi [ɥ] cada còp que vesi <i>-u-</i> o <i>-ü-</i> (coma un tropèl d'autres probablament e subretot dins la transcripcion del cirillic) la grafia <i>-gü-</i> [gw] es sonque aplicabla al gascon qu'a [w] dins los diftongs... (existisson un fum de problèmas de talhament sillabic <i>tri | ar</i> o <i>triar</i> a mai en francés existisson alara prononcia [piŋgu'i(ŋN)] es pas talament grèu nimai e encara mens en prononciacion rapida...) mas bon faretz coma o voldretz, la causa es pas normativa e o vòli ramentar e dins la mesura qu'o es pas m'agradariá que se laissèsse a l'autor de l'article la libertat de gerir la varietat coma o vòl (los autres se pòdon picar d'articles s'o vòlon per far passar sas preferéncias..., ne mancam fòrça)! La recerca dins las preconizacions del CLO indican que las recercas èran pas talament menimosas, èra pas lo primièr endrech ont caliá agachar, dins lo pati del Dieu? Bona jornada e setmana Joan Francés... <a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Utilizaire:Capsot">Capsot</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Capsot">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Capsot-2011-07-19T13:11:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-19T12:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19 julhet de 2011 a 13.11 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Capsot-2011-07-19T13:11:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-19T12:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Capsot-2011-07-19T13:11:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-19T12:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-20T19:21:00.000Z-2"></span>Te rendes còmpte que çò que dises a ni cap ni centena???--<a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Nil_Blau" title="Utilizaire:Nil Blau">Nil Blau</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Nil_Blau" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Nil Blau">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-20T19:21:00.000Z-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20 julhet de 2011 a 19.21 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-20T19:21:00.000Z-2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Blau-2011-07-20T19:21:00.000Z-2"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Capsot-2011-07-20T20:04:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-20T19:21:00.000Z"></span>En general ensagi de rendre de comptes mas me "rendre compte" non... <a href="/wiki/Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Utilizaire:Capsot">Capsot</a> (<a href="/wiki/Discussion_Utilizaire:Capsot" title="Discussion Utilizaire:Capsot">d</a>) <a href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discutir:Ping%C3%BCin#c-Capsot-2011-07-20T20:04:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-20T19:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20 julhet de 2011 a 20.04 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Capsot-2011-07-20T20:04:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-20T19:21:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">respon</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Capsot-2011-07-20T20:04:00.000Z-Nil_Blau-2011-07-20T19:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Recuperada de « <a dir="ltr" href="https://oc.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Pingüin&oldid=2419880">https://oc.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Discutir:Pingüin&oldid=2419880</a> »</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> Aquela pagina es estada modificada pel darrièr còp lo 27 genièr de 2024 a 13.37.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright"><span style="white-space: normal"><a href="/wiki/Wikip%C3%A8dia:Drech_d%27autor" title="Wikipèdia:Drech d'autor">Drech d'autor</a> : Los tèxtes son disponibles jos <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="//creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.fr">licéncia Creative Commons paternitat pertatge a l’identic</a> ; d’autras condicions se pòdon aplicar. 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