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class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox 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.talkheader-shortcuts{display:flex;align-items:center;padding:0.1em}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help{flex:2 1 auto;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#ffffff);color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies+.talkheader-policies{border-left:1px solid #c0c090}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{flex:0 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts>*{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help ul,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies ul{margin:0.1em 0.8em 0 1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a 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All interested editors are invited to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Members" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Members">join the project</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography">contribute to the discussion</a>. 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This article is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:</p><b> <div><ul><li>You must be logged-in to an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:User_access_levels#Autoconfirmed_and_confirmed_users" title="Wikipedia:User access levels">autoconfirmed or confirmed</a> account (usually granted automatically to accounts with 10 edits and an age of 4 days)</li></ul></div></b><p>Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">purpose of Wikipedia</a>, any expected <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette" title="Wikipedia:Etiquette">standards of behaviour</a>, or any <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">normal editorial process</a> may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. 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This article is related to <a href="/wiki/Pseudoscience" title="Pseudoscience">pseudoscience</a> and <a href="/wiki/Fringe_science" title="Fringe science">fringe science</a>, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:</p><b> <div><ul><li>You must be logged-in to an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:User_access_levels#Autoconfirmed_and_confirmed_users" title="Wikipedia:User access levels">autoconfirmed or confirmed</a> account (usually granted automatically to accounts with 10 edits and an age of 4 days)</li></ul></div></b><p>Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">purpose of Wikipedia</a>, any expected <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette" title="Wikipedia:Etiquette">standards of behaviour</a>, or any <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">normal editorial process</a> may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics">contentious topics procedures</a> before editing this page.</p></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc" /> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Labels_in_the_lead" data-mw-thread-id="h-Labels_in_the_lead-20240830214300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Labels_in_the_lead-20240830214300"></span>Labels in the lead<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Labels_in_the_lead-20240830214300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Robby_Starbuck&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Labels in the lead"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240830214300-Labels_in_the_lead"></span>Contentious descriptions in the lead such as "conspiracy theorist" must be widely supported by reliable sources before it can be inserted into the article per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LABEL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LABEL">WP:LABEL</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morbidthoughts" title="User talk:Morbidthoughts">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Morbidthoughts-20240830214300-Labels_in_the_lead" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 30 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240830214300-Labels_in_the_lead"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Morbidthoughts-20240830214300-Labels_in_the_lead"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Animalparty-20240831211200-Morbidthoughts-20240830214300"></span>Additionally, two articles in <i><a href="/wiki/Rolling_Stone" title="Rolling Stone">Rolling Stone</a></i> are cited on three separate occasions.Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ROLLINGSTONEPOLITICS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ROLLINGSTONEPOLITICS">WP:ROLLINGSTONEPOLITICS</a>: <span class="example" style="font-family: Georgia, 'DejaVu Serif', serif; color: var(--color-content-added, #006400);">there is unanimous consensus among editors that Rolling Stone is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GUNREL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GUNREL">generally unreliable</a> for politically and societally sensitive issues reported since 2011</span>. Both articles, by <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.rollingstone.com/author/nikki-mccann-ramirez/">a former associate director</a> of <a href="/wiki/Media_Matters_for_America" title="Media Matters for America">Media Matters for America</a>, are categorized by Rolling Stone under politics, and are clearly about societally sensitive issues. Wikipedia should not use generally unreliable sources in a BLP to describe, nor lend weight to, "societally sensitive" issues. These comments also apply to <a href="/wiki/The_War_on_Children" class="mw-redirect" title="The War on Children">The War on Children</a>, which includes the same two Rolling Stone articles (and which probably doesn't even merit its own article: a merge/redirect to this article is more appropriate). <a href="/wiki/User:Animalparty" title="User:Animalparty">--Animalparty!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Animalparty" title="User talk:Animalparty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Animalparty-20240831211200-Morbidthoughts-20240830214300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Animalparty-20240831211200-Morbidthoughts-20240830214300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Animalparty-20240831211200-Morbidthoughts-20240830214300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kcmastrpc-20240831215800-Animalparty-20240831211200"></span>I would support an AfD @ <a href="/wiki/The_War_on_Children" class="mw-redirect" title="The War on Children">The War on Children</a> with a merge. <a href="/wiki/User:Kcmastrpc" title="User:Kcmastrpc">Kcmastrpc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kcmastrpc" title="User talk:Kcmastrpc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Kcmastrpc-20240831215800-Animalparty-20240831211200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:58, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kcmastrpc-20240831215800-Animalparty-20240831211200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kcmastrpc-20240831215800-Animalparty-20240831211200"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Animalparty-20240831231500-Kcmastrpc-20240831215800"></span>I think a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PROPMERGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PROPMERGE">proposed merge</a> would be a better first course of action than AfD, even if it results in the same outcome. <a href="/wiki/User:Animalparty" title="User:Animalparty">--Animalparty!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Animalparty" title="User talk:Animalparty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Animalparty-20240831231500-Kcmastrpc-20240831215800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Animalparty-20240831231500-Kcmastrpc-20240831215800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Animalparty-20240831231500-Kcmastrpc-20240831215800"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902074800-Animalparty-20240831231500"></span>User:Biohistorian15</a> has tried to transclude the War on Children article on here which I believe is inappropriate. It gives too much weight to the film given <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPBALANCE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPBALANCE">WP:BLPBALANCE</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morbidthoughts" title="User talk:Morbidthoughts">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Morbidthoughts-20240902074800-Animalparty-20240831231500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902074800-Animalparty-20240831231500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902074800-Animalparty-20240831231500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Biohistorian15-20240902075100-Morbidthoughts-20240902074800"></span>There is a gigantic section listing all the music videos he has apparently produced in the past. I do not see how a well-known documentary cannot be discussed in 2 more paragraphs than before. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">Biohistorian15</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Biohistorian15-20240902075100-Morbidthoughts-20240902074800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:51, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Biohistorian15-20240902075100-Morbidthoughts-20240902074800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Biohistorian15-20240902075100-Morbidthoughts-20240902074800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902075300-Biohistorian15-20240902075100"></span>That can easily be reduced on your end since they're uncited. He was a music video director for at least 8 years though. <a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morbidthoughts" title="User talk:Morbidthoughts">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Morbidthoughts-20240902075300-Biohistorian15-20240902075100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:53, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902075300-Biohistorian15-20240902075100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902075300-Biohistorian15-20240902075100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Biohistorian15-20240902075900-Morbidthoughts-20240902075300"></span>Very strange behavior from you over all. You have been editing the page for a while now, I just chimed in a few hours ago. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">Biohistorian15</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Biohistorian15-20240902075900-Morbidthoughts-20240902075300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:59, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Biohistorian15-20240902075900-Morbidthoughts-20240902075300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Biohistorian15-20240902075900-Morbidthoughts-20240902075300"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Casting_aspersions" title="Wikipedia:Casting aspersions"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902080100-Biohistorian15-20240902075900"></span>Wikipedia:Casting aspersions</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morbidthoughts" title="User talk:Morbidthoughts">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Morbidthoughts-20240902080100-Biohistorian15-20240902075900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:01, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902080100-Biohistorian15-20240902075900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902080100-Biohistorian15-20240902075900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Multiple_Issues" data-mw-thread-id="h-Multiple_Issues-20240831215400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Multiple_Issues-20240831215400"></span>Multiple Issues<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Multiple_Issues-20240831215400"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Robby_Starbuck&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Multiple Issues"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kcmastrpc-20240831215400-Multiple_Issues"></span>Came across this page per BLP/N, and a few things I noticed: </p> <ul><li>Should we include GENSEX contentious topic notification?</li> <li>Should we better attribute "multiple news outlets" when describing his film as "anti-trans/lgbtq+", eg. "News outlets such as Rolling Stone and Pink News have ..."</li> <li>Should we add a citation needed banner to his music video section, or just remove it entirely?</li></ul> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Kcmastrpc" title="User:Kcmastrpc">Kcmastrpc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kcmastrpc" title="User talk:Kcmastrpc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Kcmastrpc-20240831215400-Multiple_Issues" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kcmastrpc-20240831215400-Multiple_Issues"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kcmastrpc-20240831215400-Multiple_Issues"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Animalparty-20240831231200-Kcmastrpc-20240831215400"></span>1) probably not yet. GENSEX shouldn't be used as a cudgel for any controversy broadly construed. 2) We should definitely attribute when citing subjective/value-laden statements to partisan and/or generally unreliable sources. 3) for the time being it's probably best to summarize, in prose rather than list, his more notable videos/clients that have been mentioned in reliable sources e.g. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/28/business/dei-john-deere-harley-davidson-robby-starbuck/index.html">Akon, the Smashing Pumpkins</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/the-robby-starbuck-attacks-on-dei-arent-working.html">Gucci Mane, and Snoop Dogg</a>. Readers can be directed to Starbuck's <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4578440/">IMDB</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://imvdb.com/n/robby-starbuck">IMVDb</a> profiles for more videos. <a href="/wiki/User:Animalparty" title="User:Animalparty">--Animalparty!</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Animalparty" title="User talk:Animalparty">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Animalparty-20240831231200-Kcmastrpc-20240831215400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Animalparty-20240831231200-Kcmastrpc-20240831215400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Animalparty-20240831231200-Kcmastrpc-20240831215400"></span> <dl><dd><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Einne-20240901105700-Animalparty-20240831231200"></span>Except in the case of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPIA">WP:ARBPIA</a> where it can matter in deciding if ECR should apply to the whole article (and so the article might be EC protected), IMO it's fairly pointless worrying too much if the whole article can reasonably be said to be within some contentious topics area. Remember there's no need for any notice for contentious topics to apply, it automatically applies if it's reasonably in an area covered and does not apply if it isn't. (There is a need for a notice for page specific restrictions, but that's up to an admin to decide.) </p><p>If an editor is aware, they need to abide by the contentious topics requirements in any content or discussion which is part of some contentious topic. And any editor not otherwise restricvt is free to alert any editor who is unaware and edits something that is covered. Likewise if an editor is topic banned, they need to recognise for themselves if they're editing something covered, topics bans don't have to be a CTOP restriction. In fact we just had a GENSEX topic ban that isn't under CTOP. </p><p>With this particular article anything to do with The War on Children and anything to do with his dispute with Megan Fox would seem to me to definitely come under the gensex topic area and so under that CTOP. Most of the DEI stuff would seem to be as well. (While DEI can include many things, it seems gensex stuff is what Starbuck has focused on.) While we don't have a source for the conspiracy theorist stuff anyway, since that seems to arise from The War on Children stuff, that too would seem to be covered by GENSEX. Arguably that would also come under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Contentious_topics/Pseudoscience_and_fringe_science" title="Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Pseudoscience and fringe science">Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Pseudoscience and fringe science</a> too. </p><p>Of course ultimately the whole article would clearly be under BLP CTOP, so even more reason IMO why it doesn't matter. </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Nil_Einne-20240901105700-Animalparty-20240831231200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:57, 1 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Einne-20240901105700-Animalparty-20240831231200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Einne-20240901105700-Animalparty-20240831231200"></span></p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kcmastrpc-20240901124200-Nil_Einne-20240901105700"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> Thank you for explaining in detail how CTOP operates; very insightful. I did add GENSEX CTOP to <a href="/wiki/The_War_on_Children" class="mw-redirect" title="The War on Children">The War on Children</a> because that one seemed obvious, but this article less so. <a href="/wiki/User:Kcmastrpc" title="User:Kcmastrpc">Kcmastrpc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kcmastrpc" title="User talk:Kcmastrpc">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Kcmastrpc-20240901124200-Nil_Einne-20240901105700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:42, 1 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kcmastrpc-20240901124200-Nil_Einne-20240901105700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kcmastrpc-20240901124200-Nil_Einne-20240901105700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Recent_reverts" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recent_reverts-20240902080900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Recent_reverts-20240902080900"></span>Recent reverts<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Recent_reverts-20240902080900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Robby_Starbuck&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Recent reverts"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Biohistorian15-20240902080900-Recent_reverts"></span>I thought I could dispense with talk page discussions given my surely adequate edit summaries. Please provide your reasoning in a clear-cut way, <a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a>. I don't get it. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">Biohistorian15</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Biohistorian15-20240902080900-Recent_reverts" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:09, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Biohistorian15-20240902080900-Recent_reverts"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Biohistorian15-20240902080900-Recent_reverts"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902081300-Biohistorian15-20240902080900"></span>Reverts do not override <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONUS">WP:ONUS</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPUNDEL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPUNDEL">WP:BLPUNDEL</a>. When you decide to add more text to an already disputed biography and are reverted under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPBALANCE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPBALANCE">WP:BLPBALANCE</a>, you don't simply revert back without demonstrated consensus to do so. <a href="/wiki/User:Morbidthoughts" title="User:Morbidthoughts">Morbidthoughts</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Morbidthoughts" title="User talk:Morbidthoughts">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Morbidthoughts-20240902081300-Biohistorian15-20240902080900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:13, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902081300-Biohistorian15-20240902080900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Morbidthoughts-20240902081300-Biohistorian15-20240902080900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Biohistorian15-20240902081900-Morbidthoughts-20240902081300"></span>The only one that would make sense per overruling <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:3RR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:3RR">WP:3RR</a> might be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPUNDEL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPUNDEL">WP:BLPUNDEL</a>, but then I see no deletion of this exact content in the article history, rendering that moot. I do not understand your confrontational attitude. What am I missing? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">Biohistorian15</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Biohistorian15-20240902081900-Morbidthoughts-20240902081300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:19, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Biohistorian15-20240902081900-Morbidthoughts-20240902081300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Biohistorian15-20240902081900-Morbidthoughts-20240902081300"></span> <dl><dd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Robby_Starbuck&diff=prev&oldid=1243579223"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NatGertler-20240902233800-Biohistorian15-20240902081900"></span>This</a> is the deletion of that exact content in the article history, before you undid that deletion two more times. -- <a href="/wiki/User:NatGertler" title="User:NatGertler">Nat Gertler</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NatGertler" title="User talk:NatGertler">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-NatGertler-20240902233800-Biohistorian15-20240902081900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:38, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NatGertler-20240902233800-Biohistorian15-20240902081900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NatGertler-20240902233800-Biohistorian15-20240902081900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Biohistorian15-20240903100400-NatGertler-20240902233800"></span>That's an inaccurate statement. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">Biohistorian15</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Biohistorian15-20240903100400-NatGertler-20240902233800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:04, 3 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Biohistorian15-20240903100400-NatGertler-20240902233800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Biohistorian15-20240903100400-NatGertler-20240902233800"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-NatGertler-20240902232600-Biohistorian15-20240902080900"></span>You are off the track here. We should not be transcluding the entire other article into this one; the article on the film should have more depth on it than is appropriate for the individual's article. If that is not the case, better to put all the material here and turn the other article into a redirect to the appropriate section of this article. -- <a href="/wiki/User:NatGertler" title="User:NatGertler">Nat Gertler</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NatGertler" title="User talk:NatGertler">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-NatGertler-20240902232600-Biohistorian15-20240902080900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:26, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-NatGertler-20240902232600-Biohistorian15-20240902080900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-NatGertler-20240902232600-Biohistorian15-20240902080900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Biohistorian15-20240903100500-NatGertler-20240902232600"></span>I guess so. There were some serious miscommunications though, and not just on my part. I'll disengage now. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">Biohistorian15</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Biohistorian15&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Biohistorian15 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Biohistorian15-20240903100500-NatGertler-20240902232600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:05, 3 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Biohistorian15-20240903100500-NatGertler-20240902232600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Biohistorian15-20240903100500-NatGertler-20240902232600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Proof_needed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Proof_needed-20241112163800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Proof_needed-20241112163800"></span>Proof needed<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Proof_needed-20241112163800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Robby_Starbuck&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Proof needed"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-46.114.45.9-20241112163800-Proof_needed"></span>Is there a link to proof that the claim "toxic chemicals were responsible for causing children to identify as LGBTQ+" is a conspiracy hypothesis? </p><p>I'm mostly interested in the methodology of how to proof a statement like this, because initially its sounds unprovable. Like you would be able to prove "toxic chemicals were responsible for causing children to identify as LGBTQ+" by finding the biological mechanisms, but you can not disprove "toxic chemicals were responsible for causing children to identify as LGBTQ+" by not finding such a mechanism (The absence of a proof, proves nothing). <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.114.45.9" title="Special:Contributions/46.114.45.9">46.114.45.9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:46.114.45.9" title="User talk:46.114.45.9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-46.114.45.9-20241112163800-Proof_needed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-46.114.45.9-20241112163800-Proof_needed"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-46.114.45.9-20241112163800-Proof_needed"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-46.114.45.9-20241112165400-46.114.45.9-20241112163800"></span>And why is it called a 'conspiracy theory' not simply a 'hypothesis'. 'Hypothesis' is a scientifically neutral term, that does not has the polarizing side effect. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/46.114.45.9" title="Special:Contributions/46.114.45.9">46.114.45.9</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:46.114.45.9" title="User talk:46.114.45.9">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-46.114.45.9-20241112165400-46.114.45.9-20241112163800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-46.114.45.9-20241112165400-46.114.45.9-20241112163800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-46.114.45.9-20241112165400-46.114.45.9-20241112163800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Iggy_pop_goes_the_weasel-20241212181500-46.114.45.9-20241112165400"></span>The sentence reflects what the cited source states which is all that's required in this case. There is currently no science-based "hypothesis" that "toxic chemicals make people LGBTQ+". If you'd like to dispute this, please provide a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEDRS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEDRS">WP:MEDRS</a> supporting such. <a href="/wiki/User:Iggy_pop_goes_the_weasel" title="User:Iggy pop goes the weasel">Iggy pop goes the weasel</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Iggy_pop_goes_the_weasel" title="User talk:Iggy pop goes the weasel">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Robby_Starbuck#c-Iggy_pop_goes_the_weasel-20241212181500-46.114.45.9-20241112165400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:15, 12 December 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Iggy_pop_goes_the_weasel-20241212181500-46.114.45.9-20241112165400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Iggy_pop_goes_the_weasel-20241212181500-46.114.45.9-20241112165400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Robby_Starbuck&oldid=1271622404">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Robby_Starbuck&oldid=1271622404</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Biography_articles_of_living_people" title="Category:Biography articles of living people">Biography articles of living people</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Start-Class_biography_articles" title="Category:Start-Class biography articles">Start-Class biography articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Biography_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Biography articles">WikiProject Biography articles</a></li></ul></div><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Noindexed_pages" title="Category:Noindexed pages">Noindexed pages</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_pages_with_contentious_topic_restrictions_without_a_placed_date" title="Category:Wikipedia pages with contentious topic restrictions without a placed date">Wikipedia pages with contentious topic restrictions without a placed date</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_pages_about_contentious_topics" title="Category:Wikipedia pages about contentious topics">Wikipedia pages about contentious topics</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 24 January 2025, at 22:42<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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