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.mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.ombox img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}</style><table class="plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Essay.svg/30px-Essay.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="36" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Essay.svg/45px-Essay.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Essay.svg/60px-Essay.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="35" data-file-height="42"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><div style="padding-top: 6px; padding-bottom: 5px;"><b>This is an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Essays" title="Wikipedia:Essays">essay</a> on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle" title="Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle">Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle</a>.</b><br/><div style="font-size: 90%;">It contains the advice or opinions of one or more Wikipedia contributors. This page is not an encyclopedia article, nor is it one of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines">Wikipedia's policies or guidelines</a>, as it has not been <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Levels_of_consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">thoroughly vetted by the community</a>. Some essays represent widespread norms; others only represent minority viewpoints.</div></div></td><td class="mbox-imageright"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1252059228">.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain{float:right;margin:0 0 0 1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-base,#fff);padding:0.3em 0.6em 0.2em 0.6em;text-align:center;font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxleft{float:left;margin:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutlist{display:inline-block;border-bottom:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);margin-bottom:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutboxplain ul{font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .module-shortcutanchordiv{position:relative;top:-3em}.mw-parser-output li .module-shortcutanchordiv{float:right}.mw-parser-output .mbox-imageright .module-shortcutboxplain{padding:0.4em 1em 0.4em 1em;line-height:1.3;margin:0}</style><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WP:BRDWRONG"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcut</a></div><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:BRDWRONG&redirect=no">WP:BRDWRONG</a></span></li></ul></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238436933"><table class="plainlinks ombox ombox-notice nutshell" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Walnut.png/30px-Walnut.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Walnut.png/45px-Walnut.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Walnut.png/60px-Walnut.png 2x" data-file-width="192" data-file-height="192"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>This page in a nutshell:</b> In <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">BRD</a> cycle</b> remember that from an existing <b>B</b> edit comes <b>RD</b> for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ALLARGUMENTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ALLARGUMENTS">Discuss</a> and consented revert. And, shortly, <b>B</b> comes again with consensus.</td></tr></tbody></table> <p>There are at least two types of editors exhibiting behaviors that misuse the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle" title="Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle">BOLD, revert, discuss cycle</a> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">WP:BRD</a>): </p> <ul><li>an <b>edit</b> (or <b>revert</b>) <b>ninja</b></li> <li>a <b>filibusterer</b>.</li></ul> <p>If the advice suggested doesn't work then unfortunately there's nothing you can do other than to let them win, at least temporarily, until you seek outside community support elsewhere. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Edit_ninjas" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_ninjas"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Edit_ninjas"></span>Edit ninjas<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Edit_ninjas"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:BRD_misuse&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Edit ninjas"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1252059228"><div class="module-shortcutanchordiv"><span id="WP:NINJA"></span><span id="WP:EDITNINJAS"></span></div><div class="module-shortcutboxplain noprint" role="note"><div class="module-shortcutlist"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Shortcut" title="Wikipedia:Shortcut">Shortcuts</a></div><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1126788409"><div class="plainlist"><ul><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:NINJA&redirect=no">WP:NINJA</a></span></li><li><span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:EDITNINJAS&redirect=no">WP:EDITNINJAS</a></span></li></ul></div></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236090951">.mw-parser-output .hatnote{font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output div.hatnote{padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em}.mw-parser-output .hatnote i{font-style:normal}.mw-parser-output .hatnote+link+.hatnote{margin-top:-0.5em}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .hatnote{display:none!important}}</style><div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">Not to be confused with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiNinja" title="Wikipedia:WikiNinja">WikiNinjas</a>. See <a href="/wiki/Lurker" title="Lurker">Lurker</a> for a similar concept.</div> <figure typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg/300px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png" decoding="async" width="300" height="225" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg/450px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7c/Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg/600px-Graham%27s_Hierarchy_of_Disagreement.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="707" data-file-height="530"/></a><figcaption>Try to stay in the top three sections of this hierarchy. <i>See also:</i> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution">Wikipedia:Dispute resolution</a>.</figcaption></figure> <p>You are editing an article quietly to yourself, sipping a cup of tea. Suddenly, WHOOSH, out of nowhere, you're reverted. You made sure to put in an edit summary, you make a note on the talkpage as to why you made the edit and ask the person to discuss the edit. You revert the person who reverted you, with an edit summary that includes a link to the talkpage discussion. WHOOSH, out of nowhere, another person or possibly the same person reverts you again. You send notes on both their talkpages, asking them to discuss their reverts, but they are nowhere to be found. You make a third revert, and again, the same thing happens! Frustrated, you look at the users' contributions and see that since reverting you, they've done the same thing on several articles! </p><p>Suddenly, several more <a href="/wiki/Ninja" title="Ninja">ninjas</a> come by – ZING! ZAP! POW! – they each make a sudden objectionable string of edits to the article all at once and there's apparently nothing you can do! </p> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Ninja_sikiruki.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Ninja_sikiruki.jpg/160px-Ninja_sikiruki.jpg" decoding="async" width="160" height="219" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Ninja_sikiruki.jpg/240px-Ninja_sikiruki.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f6/Ninja_sikiruki.jpg/320px-Ninja_sikiruki.jpg 2x" data-file-width="374" data-file-height="511"/></a><figcaption>The edit ninja viewing his watchlist. Don't expect him to say anything.</figcaption></figure> <p>The ninja is an accurate but polite description, useful in place of more antagonistic terms which can be regarded as epithets. Edit ninjas are users who move from article-to-article, making edits, often in violation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> and they are often successful by working together in clans. They are silent, but deadly. Like real ninjas, they combine astounding accuracy, cunning, and skill with senseless and pointless destruction and mayhem. The ninja and edit ninja both act like machines instead of real human beings. Recognizing and respecting each other, they act like a cabal. If you edit-war with them, you are more than likely going to be blocked, in accord with a misuse and misinterpretation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:3RR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:3RR">WP:3RR</a>. </p><p>The key to dealing with an edit ninja is to force them to discuss their edits. Call them out for being edit ninjas and let them know about <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">WP:BRD</a>. You may not make one bold edit after another or a series of reverts <i>without</i> attempting to discuss why you did that. </p><p>Related to the ninja is the editor who flies in with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_revert_due_solely_to_%22no_consensus%22" title="Wikipedia:Don't revert due solely to "no consensus"">"I'm reverting you per BRD"</a> but then doesn't discuss the reasons for reverting or address prior discussion of the material that they reverted. They don't cultivate the anonymity of the ninja, and are more obstructive than destructive. They probably think of themselves as staunch defenders of Wikipedia. They need to understand that the point of BRD is not the R but the D. "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD#What_BRD_is,_and_is_not" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">The first person to start a discussion is the person who is best following BRD</a>." </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Filibusterers" data-mw-thread-id="h-Filibusterers"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Filibusterers"></span>Filibusterers<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Filibusterers"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:BRD_misuse&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Filibusterers"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span class="anchor" id="Filibusters"></span> </p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1236090951"><div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">Main page: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Gaming_the_system#Gaming_the_consensus-building_process" title="Wikipedia:Gaming the system">Wikipedia:Gaming the system § Gaming the consensus-building process</a></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FILIBUSTER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FILIBUSTER">Filibusterers</a> (who engage in "<a href="/wiki/Filibuster" title="Filibuster">filibustering</a>" or "stonewalling") abuse <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">WP:BRD</a> in the exact opposite of an edit-ninja, but just as annoying, if not more. </p><p>Rather than making a string of silent edits to articles, filibusterers will do the exact opposite: They will make edits, possibly bold and usually contentious, to a single article. Once they are reverted, they will write a ten-page essay on the talkpage. A person will respond to them with a few sentences and they will reply, "But you didn't respond to my points!" You ask what points they want you to respond to and they say, "All of them!" So, you go through with the tedious task of responding to every single trivial point they make and click "Publish changes". </p><p>Five minutes later, you look at the talkpage to see another ten-page essay. Again, the cycle continues. You respond in a few sentences and perhaps the person themselves even responds in a few sentences, but the conversation goes on and on and on, in such a way that it's clear that it's more of an intellectual <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:GAMING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:GAMING">game</a>, like a <a href="/wiki/Staring_contest" class="mw-redirect" title="Staring contest">staring contest</a>, to see who will give up first, rather than an actual rational, meaningful discussion. </p><p>So, you revert the person, and they revert you too, with edit summaries containing, "There's no consensus! Stop edit-warring, I declare! See the talkpage!" </p><p>The key to dealing with a filibusterer is to point out that they're filibustering and to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DENY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DENY">ignore them</a>. If they continue reverting, put in an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFC">RfC</a> or report them for edit-warring on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANEW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANEW">WP:ANEW</a>. Editors may not abuse BRD to force users to engage in overwhelmingly unnecessary discussion. </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="See_also" data-mw-thread-id="h-See_also"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-See_also"></span>See also<span data-mw-comment-end="h-See_also"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:BRD_misuse&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: See also"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_revert_due_to_%22no_consensus%22" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Don't revert due to "no consensus"">Wikipedia:Don't revert due to "no consensus"</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD,_revert,_revert,_revert" title="Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, revert, revert">Wikipedia:BOLD, revert, revert, revert</a>, a prime example</li></ul>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:BRD_misuse&oldid=1241616687">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:BRD_misuse&oldid=1241616687</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_essays" title="Category:Wikipedia essays">Wikipedia essays</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_essays_explaining_processes" title="Category:Wikipedia essays explaining processes">Wikipedia essays explaining processes</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_essays_introducing_or_defining_new_terms" title="Category:Wikipedia essays introducing or defining new terms">Wikipedia essays introducing or defining new terms</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_essays_about_consensus" title="Category:Wikipedia essays about consensus">Wikipedia essays about consensus</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 22 August 2024, at 06:46<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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