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class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#DB"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 16 DB </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-DB-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Adelaide_city_centre" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Adelaide_city_centre"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 17 Adelaide city centre </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Adelaide_city_centre-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Collapsing_tables_and_widths" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Collapsing_tables_and_widths"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 18 Collapsing tables and widths </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Collapsing_tables_and_widths-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Texas_vs._Florida" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Texas_vs._Florida"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 19 Texas vs. Florida </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Texas_vs._Florida-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Virginia_Governors" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Virginia_Governors"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 20 Virginia Governors </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Virginia_Governors-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Yoghurt" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Yoghurt"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 21 Yoghurt </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Yoghurt-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Response_to_your_questions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Response_to_your_questions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 22 Response to your questions </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Response_to_your_questions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Beaverton_City_Library" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Beaverton_City_Library"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 23 Beaverton City Library </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Beaverton_City_Library-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Just_a_thought" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Just_a_thought"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 24 Just a thought </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-Just_a_thought-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Infobox_constitutional_amendment" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Infobox_constitutional_amendment"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 25 Infobox constitutional amendment </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Infobox_constitutional_amendment-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Template_talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2016" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Template_talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2016"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 26 Template talk:United States presidential election, 2016 </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Template_talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2016-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Record_Franz_Joseph_I" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Record_Franz_Joseph_I"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 27 Record Franz Joseph I </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Record_Franz_Joseph_I-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Note_to_Reywas92" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Note_to_Reywas92"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 28 Note to Reywas92 </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Note_to_Reywas92-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_Dobos_torte_for_you!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_Dobos_torte_for_you!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 29 A Dobos torte for you! </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-A_Dobos_torte_for_you!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-License_plate_articles" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#License_plate_articles"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 30 License plate articles </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-License_plate_articles-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-May_2016" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#May_2016"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 31 May 2016 </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-May_2016-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-June_2016" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#June_2016"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 32 June 2016 </div> </a> <ul id="toc-June_2016-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Golf_editing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Golf_editing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 33 Golf editing </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Golf_editing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-River_categories" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#River_categories"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 34 River categories </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-River_categories-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Heavy_metals_uses" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Heavy_metals_uses"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 35 Heavy metals uses </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Heavy_metals_uses-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Problem_cut+paste_moves_in_heavy_metals" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Problem_cut+paste_moves_in_heavy_metals"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 36 Problem cut+paste moves in heavy metals </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Problem_cut+paste_moves_in_heavy_metals-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Unobtainium" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Unobtainium"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 37 Unobtainium </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Unobtainium-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-the_"pretty_picture"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#the_"pretty_picture""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 38 the "pretty picture" </div> </a> 10 comments <ul id="toc-the_"pretty_picture"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Osmium_caption_in_the_Heavy_Metals_article" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Osmium_caption_in_the_Heavy_Metals_article"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 39 Osmium caption in the Heavy Metals article </div> </a> 6 comments <ul id="toc-Osmium_caption_in_the_Heavy_Metals_article-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-HSAB" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#HSAB"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 40 HSAB </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-HSAB-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Osmium" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Osmium"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 41 Osmium </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Osmium-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Elemental_importance" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Elemental_importance"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 42 Elemental importance </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Elemental_importance-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"Ask_an_American",_2nd_ed." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"Ask_an_American",_2nd_ed."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 43 "Ask an American", 2nd ed. </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-"Ask_an_American",_2nd_ed.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Halogens_are_not_a_group" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Halogens_are_not_a_group"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 44 Halogens are not a group </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Halogens_are_not_a_group-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Countervandalism_is_supposed_to_remove_vandalism" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Countervandalism_is_supposed_to_remove_vandalism"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 45 Countervandalism is supposed to remove vandalism </div> </a> 2 comments <ul 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class="vector-toc-text"> 52 Icons in tables in m.wp </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Icons_in_tables_in_m.wp-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_barnstar_for_you!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_barnstar_for_you!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 53 A barnstar for you! </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-A_barnstar_for_you!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ping_test" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ping_test"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 54 Ping test </div> </a> 15 comments <ul id="toc-Ping_test-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Meetup_Invitation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Meetup_Invitation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 55 Meetup Invitation </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Meetup_Invitation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li 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data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></td><td class="mbox-text" style="text-align:center">This is an <a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">archive</a> of past discussions with <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">User:YBG</a>. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the <a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG" title="User talk:YBG">current talk page</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <table style="text-align:center;margin:0 auto 0.5em;max-width:45em;width:100%;width:-moz-available;width:-webkit-fill-available;width:stretch"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_1" title="User talk:YBG/Archive 1">Archive 1</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_2" title="User talk:YBG/Archive 2">Archive 2</a></td><td><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Archive 3</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_4" title="User talk:YBG/Archive 4">Archive 4</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_5" title="User talk:YBG/Archive 5">Archive 5</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_6" title="User talk:YBG/Archive 6">Archive 6</a></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Welcome" data-mw-thread-id="h-Welcome-2008-11-15T12:59:00.000Z">Welcome</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color:#F5FFFA; padding:0;" cellpadding="0"> <tbody><tr> <td class="MainPageBG" style="border:1px solid lightgrey; background-color:lightgrey; vertical-align:top; color:#000000; font-size:85%"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top; background-color:lavender; padding:0;"> <tbody><tr> <th><div style="margin:0; background-color:white; font-family:sans-serif; font-size:120%; font-weight:normal; border:1px solid lightgrey; text-align:left; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top:0.2em; padding-bottom:0.2em;">Hello, YBG! <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Introduction">Welcome</a> to Wikipedia! Thank you for <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/YBG" title="Special:Contributions/YBG">your contributions</a>. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place <code>{{helpme}}</code> on your <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_page" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Talk page">talk page</a> and ask your question there. Please remember to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">sign your name</a> on talk pages by clicking <a href="/wiki/File:Button_sig.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Button_sig.png" decoding="async" width="23" height="22" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="23" data-file-height="22"/></a> or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User">adopted</a>" by a more experienced editor or joining a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProject</a> to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Directory" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Directory">here</a> for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the <a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_summary" title="Help:Edit summary">edit summary</a> field. Happy editing! <a href="/wiki/User:Sting_au" title="User:Sting au">Sting</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sting_au" title="User talk:Sting au">Buzz Me...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sting_au-2008-11-15T12:59:00.000Z-Welcome" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:59, 15 November 2008 (UTC)</a></div> </th></tr></tbody></table> <table width="100%" style="background-color:white;"> <tbody><tr> <td class="MainPageBG" style="width: 55%; border:1px solid white; background-color:lightgrey; vertical-align:top"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top; background-color:Lavender"> <tbody><tr> <th><div style="margin: 0; background-color:white; font-family: sans-serif; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold; border:1px solid lightgrey; text-align:left; color:grey; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top: 0.2em; padding-bottom: 0.2em;">Getting Started</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:#000"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Tutorial" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Tutorial">Wikipedia Tutorial</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Five_pillars" title="Wikipedia:Five pillars">The five pillars of Wikipedia</a></li> <li>How to: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:How to edit a page">edit a page</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Uploading_images" title="Wikipedia:Uploading images">upload an image</a></li></ul> </td></tr> <tr> <th><div style="margin: 0; background:white; font-family: sans-serif; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold; border:1px solid lightgrey; text-align:left; color:grey; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top: 0.2em; padding-bottom: 0.2em;">Getting Help</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:#000"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FAQ" title="Wikipedia:FAQ">Frequently Asked Questions</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">Where to ask questions or make comments</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_administrator_attention" title="Wikipedia:Requests for administrator attention">Request administrator attention</a></li></ul> </td></tr> <tr> <th><div style="margin: 0; background:white; font-family: sans-serif; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold; border:1px solid lightgrey; text-align:left; color:grey; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top: 0.2em; padding-bottom: 0.2em;">Policies and Guidelines</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:#000"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">Neutral point of view</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">Reliable sources</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">Verifiability</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citing_sources" title="Wikipedia:Citing sources">Citing sources</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research" title="Wikipedia:No original research">No original research</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">What Wikipedia is not</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons" title="Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons">Biographies of living persons</a></li></ul> <hr/> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">Manual of Style</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Three-revert_rule" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Three-revert rule">Three-revert rule</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Sock puppetry">Sock puppetry</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights" title="Wikipedia:Copyrights">Copyrights</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content" title="Wikipedia:Non-free content">Policy for non-free content</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy" title="Wikipedia:Image use policy">Image use policy</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:External_links" title="Wikipedia:External links">External links</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Spam" title="Wikipedia:Spam">Spam</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism" title="Wikipedia:Vandalism">Vandalism</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_policy" title="Wikipedia:Deletion policy">Deletion policy</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest" title="Wikipedia:Conflict of interest">Conflict of interest</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability" title="Wikipedia:Notability">Notability</a></li></ul> </td></tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td class="MainPageBG" style="width: 55%; border:1px solid lightgrey; background-color:Seashell; vertical-align:top"> <table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="5" style="vertical-align:top; background-color:Seashell"> <tbody><tr> <th><div style="margin: 0; background-color:white; font-family: sans-serif; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold; border:1px solid lightgrey; text-align:left; color:grey; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top: 0.2em; padding-bottom: 0.2em;">The Community</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:#000"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_Portal" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Community Portal">Community Portal</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Adopt-a-User">Adopt-a-user program</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Civility</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Etiquette" title="Wikipedia:Etiquette">Etiquette</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">No personal attacks</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Resolving_disputes" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Resolving disputes">Resolving disputes</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">Build consensus</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump" title="Wikipedia:Village pump">Village pump</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost">Signpost</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IRC_channels" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IRC channels">IRC channels</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Mailing_lists" title="Wikipedia:Mailing lists">Mailing lists</a></li></ul> </td></tr> <tr> <th><div style="margin: 0; background-color:white; font-family: sans-serif; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold; border:1px solid lightgrey; text-align:left; color:grey; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top: 0.2em; padding-bottom: 0.2em;">Things to do</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:#000"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Be_bold_in_updating_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Be bold in updating pages">Be bold in editing</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_development" title="Wikipedia:Article development">Help develop an article</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Pages_needing_attention" title="Wikipedia:Pages needing attention">Pages needing attention</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review" title="Wikipedia:Peer review">Peer review</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">Join a WikiProject</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Translation_into_English" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Translation into English">Translating articles</a></li> <li>Cleaning up: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Cleanup" title="Wikipedia:Cleanup">General</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Spam" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Spam">Spam</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Cleaning_up_vandalism" title="Wikipedia:Cleaning up vandalism">Vandalism</a></li></ul> </td></tr> <tr> <th><div style="margin: 0; background-color:white; font-family: sans-serif; font-size:120%; font-weight:bold; border:1px solid lightgrey; text-align:left; color:grey; padding-left:0.4em; padding-top: 0.2em; padding-bottom: 0.2em;">Miscellaneous</div> </th></tr> <tr> <td style="color:#000"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categorization" title="Wikipedia:Categorization">Categories</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Disambiguation" title="Wikipedia:Disambiguation">Disambiguity</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Stub" title="Wikipedia:Stub">Stubs</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:User_page" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:User page">User pages</a> • <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_page" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Talk page">Talk pages</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Template_messages" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Template messages">Useful templates</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools" title="Wikipedia:Tools">Tools</a> • <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_User_scripts" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts">User scripts</a></li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wiki_etiquette" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wiki_etiquette-2008-11-28T19:35:00.000Z"><a href="/wiki/Wiki_etiquette" class="mw-redirect" title="Wiki etiquette">Wiki etiquette</a></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thanks! for being so polite while I was stumbling around in <a href="/wiki/Marmite" title="Marmite">Marmite</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:TheSeven" title="User:TheSeven">TheSeven</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheSeven" title="User talk:TheSeven">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-TheSeven-2008-11-28T19:35:00.000Z-Wiki_etiquette" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:35, 28 November 2008 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hi" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hi-2009-08-06T15:49:00.000Z">Hi</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi YBG, thanks for sharing your thoughts in our discussion on WikiProject Oregon. I guess our work is getting broad enough, that I'm sorry to say your work had not really caught my attention yet…but I see you've been working in a number of areas of Oregon content. Thanks! You said you've been keeping an eye on our project for a while…I hope you decide to join us more formally at some point! Also, thanks for the additional bot suggestion; it's a good idea. -<a href="/wiki/User:Peteforsyth" title="User:Peteforsyth">Pete</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peteforsyth" title="User talk:Peteforsyth">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Peteforsyth-2009-08-06T15:49:00.000Z-Hi" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:49, 6 August 2009 (UTC)</a> <table style="border: 1px solid #c0c090; background-color: #f8eaba; width: 80%; margin: 4px auto; padding: .2em;"> <tbody><tr> <td><a href="/wiki/File:Oregon_DEM_relief_map.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Oregon_DEM_relief_map.png/50px-Oregon_DEM_relief_map.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="37" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Oregon_DEM_relief_map.png/75px-Oregon_DEM_relief_map.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0f/Oregon_DEM_relief_map.png/100px-Oregon_DEM_relief_map.png 2x" data-file-width="1086" data-file-height="798"/></a> </td> <td>You are invited to join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Oregon" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Oregon">WikiProject Oregon</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProject</a> dedicated to improving articles related to the <a href="/wiki/U.S._state" title="U.S. state">U.S. state</a> of <a href="/wiki/Oregon" title="Oregon">Oregon</a> . You received this invitation because of your history editing Oregon articles or discussion of Oregon topics. The Oregon WikiProject group discussion is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:ORE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:ORE">here</a>. If you are interested in joining, please visit the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Oregon" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Oregon">project page</a>, and add your name to the list of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Oregon#Participants" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Oregon">participants</a>. New members may <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Oregon/Introductions" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Oregon/Introductions">read about existing members and introduce themselves here</a>. </td></tr></tbody></table> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Portland_demographics" data-mw-thread-id="h-Portland_demographics">Portland demographics</h2></div> This section formerly had a number of alternatives that I eventually moved to <a href="/wiki/Talk:Portland,_Oregon#Demography_.26_Race" title="Talk:Portland, Oregon">Talk:Portland,_Oregon#Demography_.26_Race</a> and then expanded and <a href="/wiki/Talk:Portland,_Oregon/Archive_5#Demography_.26_Race" title="Talk:Portland, Oregon/Archive 5">archived</a>. <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Thanks..." data-mw-thread-id="h-Thanks...-2009-11-30T15:37:00.000Z">Thanks...</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> ...for redoing that trivia section on <a href="/wiki/Willamette_Stone" title="Willamette Stone">Willamette Stone</a>. It's not trivial anymore, and I added another reference and a link to 1959 photos of the stone. <a href="/wiki/User:Drmies" title="User:Drmies">Drmies</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Drmies" title="User talk:Drmies">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Drmies-2009-11-30T15:37:00.000Z-Thanks..." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 30 November 2009 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Re_Template:Adelaide_CBD_Streets" data-mw-thread-id="h-Re_Template:Adelaide_CBD_Streets-2011-11-28T09:36:00.000Z">Re <a href="/wiki/Template:Adelaide_CBD_Streets" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Adelaide CBD Streets">Template:Adelaide CBD Streets</a></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd>I probably do have them the wrong way round. For some reason I cannot seem to remember which is which. I agree with you anyway. Pleased to see you experimenting. <a href="/wiki/User:Donama" title="User:Donama">Donama</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Donama" title="User talk:Donama">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Donama-2011-11-28T09:36:00.000Z-Re_Template:Adelaide_CBD_Streets" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:36, 28 November 2011 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Yes, I noticed. Nice one. <a href="/wiki/User:Donama" title="User:Donama">Donama</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Donama" title="User talk:Donama">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Donama-2011-12-08T22:31:00.000Z-Donama-2011-11-28T09:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="NFL_retired_numbers" data-mw-thread-id="h-NFL_retired_numbers-2011-12-06T02:24:00.000Z">NFL retired numbers</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thank you for the recognition!! I had realised that the main nfl reference cited in the article no longer works; in fact, I replaced that link for another source which lists all the numbers and players honored. This was because the retired jerseys section was supressed from the NFL.com site, I don´t know why. I will continue adding sources as much as I can, thanks ! <a href="/wiki/User:Fma12" title="User:Fma12">Fma12</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Fma12" title="User talk:Fma12">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Fma12-2011-12-06T02:24:00.000Z-NFL_retired_numbers" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:24, 6 December 2011 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_Oregon_state_symbols/archive1" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_Oregon_state_symbols/archive1-2009-11-21T15:08:00.000Z"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_Oregon_state_symbols/archive1" title="Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Oregon state symbols/archive1">Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Oregon state symbols/archive1</a></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, are you satisfied with the revisions made, or do you still have any issues with the list? <a href="/wiki/User:Dabomb87" title="User:Dabomb87">Dabomb87</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dabomb87" title="User talk:Dabomb87">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Dabomb87-2009-11-21T15:08:00.000Z-Wikipedia:Featured_list_candidates/List_of_Oregon_state_symbols/archive1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:08, 21 November 2009 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I just made some more tweaks and commented on the FL nomination page. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2009-11-22T07:28:00.000Z-Dabomb87-2009-11-21T15:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="PSOB_reminder.." data-mw-thread-id="h-PSOB_reminder..-2009-11-30T06:29:00.000Z">PSOB reminder..</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I posted a bunch of pics of the Portland State Office Building symbols for you- haven't seen a reply. <a href="/wiki/User:Tedder" title="User:Tedder">tedder</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tedder" title="User talk:Tedder">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Tedder-2009-11-30T06:29:00.000Z-PSOB_reminder.." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:29, 30 November 2009 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Articles_you_might_like_to_edit,_from_SuggestBot" data-mw-thread-id="h-Articles_you_might_like_to_edit,_from_SuggestBot-2013-01-28T07:21:00.000Z">Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/User:SuggestBot" title="User:SuggestBot">SuggestBot</a> predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun! <table cellspacing="10" style="background-color:transparent;"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="top"> <dl><dt>Stubs</dt> <dd></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/State_law_(United_States)" title="State law (United States)">State law (United States)</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/West_Salem_High_School_(Salem,_Oregon)" title="West Salem High School (Salem, Oregon)">West Salem High School (Salem, Oregon)</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/National_Association_for_College_Admission_Counseling" title="National Association for College Admission Counseling">National Association for College Admission Counseling</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/John_Rundle" title="John Rundle">John Rundle</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Comberbach" title="Comberbach">Comberbach</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Datagram_socket" class="mw-redirect" title="Datagram socket">Datagram socket</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Chikhaldara" title="Chikhaldara">Chikhaldara</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Republic_of_Canada" title="Republic of Canada">Republic of Canada</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/1970_United_States_Census" class="mw-redirect" title="1970 United States Census">1970 United States Census</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Badnera" title="Badnera">Badnera</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Raipur,_Uttarakhand" title="Raipur, Uttarakhand">Raipur, Uttarakhand</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/1960_United_States_Census" class="mw-redirect" title="1960 United States Census">1960 United States Census</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/North_American_Saxophone_Alliance" title="North American Saxophone Alliance">North American Saxophone Alliance</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/R._B._McCallum" title="R. B. McCallum">R. B. McCallum</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Flag_of_Nevada" title="Flag of Nevada">Flag of Nevada</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Pratitnagar" title="Pratitnagar">Pratitnagar</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/List_of_execution_chambers_in_the_United_States" class="mw-redirect" title="List of execution chambers in the United States">List of execution chambers in the United States</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Government_College_of_Engineering,_Amravati" title="Government College of Engineering, Amravati">Government College of Engineering, Amravati</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Veerbhadra" class="mw-redirect" title="Veerbhadra">Veerbhadra</a></dd></dl> </td> <td align="top"> <dl><dt>Cleanup</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Parole_board" title="Parole board">Parole board</a></dd> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=Sarah_Jane_Brain_Foundation_State_Lead_Centers_of_Excellence&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Sarah Jane Brain Foundation State Lead Centers of Excellence (page does not exist)">Sarah Jane Brain Foundation State Lead Centers of Excellence</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Mobile_Allocation_Index_Offset" title="Mobile Allocation Index Offset">Mobile Allocation Index Offset</a></dd> <dt>Merge</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Extreme_points_of_Massachusetts" class="mw-redirect" title="Extreme points of Massachusetts">Extreme points of Massachusetts</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Historic_regions_of_the_United_States" class="mw-redirect" title="Historic regions of the United States">Historic regions of the United States</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Fundamentalist%E2%80%93Modernist_Controversy" class="mw-redirect" title="Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy">Fundamentalist–Modernist Controversy</a></dd> <dt>Add Sources</dt> <dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=List_of_database_subscriptions_provided_by_US_public_libraries&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="List of database subscriptions provided by US public libraries (page does not exist)">List of database subscriptions provided by US public libraries</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Daryapur" title="Daryapur">Daryapur</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Maharashtra" title="Maharashtra">Maharashtra</a></dd> <dt>Wikify</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Hinduism_in_Sri_Lanka" title="Hinduism in Sri Lanka">Hinduism in Sri Lanka</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Hemp" title="Hemp">Hemp</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/List_of_United_States_electric_companies" title="List of United States electric companies">List of United States electric companies</a></dd> <dt>Expand</dt> <dd><a href="/wiki/Visitor_center" title="Visitor center">Visitor center</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Extreme_points_of_U.S._states" class="mw-redirect" title="Extreme points of U.S. states">Extreme points of U.S. states</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Beaverton_School_District" title="Beaverton School District">Beaverton School District</a></dd></dl> </td></tr></tbody></table> SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Wikipedia better — thanks for helping. If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SuggestBot" title="User talk:SuggestBot">SuggestBot's talk page</a>. Thanks from <a href="/wiki/User:Nettrom" title="User:Nettrom">Nettrom</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nettrom" title="User talk:Nettrom">talk</a>), SuggestBot's caretaker. -- <a href="/wiki/User:SuggestBot" title="User:SuggestBot">SuggestBot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SuggestBot" title="User talk:SuggestBot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-SuggestBot-2013-01-28T07:21:00.000Z-Articles_you_might_like_to_edit,_from_SuggestBot" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:21, 28 January 2013 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Pix_on_the_PCA" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pix_on_the_PCA">Pix on the PCA</h2></div> I think the article with pictures is more friendly, than the pure text only version. Why Briarwood Presbyterian for example? The PCA was formed there. It can be better imagine the whole story with the picture the place, the building where the PCA was created. If you have better pictures more suitable for the article please help to have a better article.<a href="/w/index.php?title=Cryx88&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Cryx88 (page does not exist)">Cryx88</a> Thanks your opinion. <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Malik_Noureed_Awan_-_which_version_should_stand?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Malik_Noureed_Awan_-_which_version_should_stand?-2013-10-02T19:06:00.000Z">Malik Noureed Awan - which version should stand?</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> You have recently edited <a href="/w/index.php?title=Malik_Noureed_Awan&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Malik Noureed Awan (page does not exist)">Malik Noureed Awan</a>. Please see <a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Malik_Noureed_Awan&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Talk:Malik Noureed Awan (page does not exist)">Talk:Malik Noureed Awan#Call for reasons why the NPOV/poorly-referenced version should stand</a> and contribute your thoughts. <a href="/wiki/User:Davidwr" title="User:Davidwr">davidwr</a>/(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidwr" title="User talk:Davidwr">talk</a>)/(<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Davidwr" title="Special:Contributions/Davidwr">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Davidwr-2013-10-02T19:06:00.000Z-Malik_Noureed_Awan_-_which_version_should_stand?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="SWAT_MATTA" data-mw-thread-id="h-SWAT_MATTA">SWAT MATTA</h2></div> Matta is Teh of district swaT KPK. <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Burnside_Bridge" data-mw-thread-id="h-Burnside_Bridge-2014-12-21T00:17:00.000Z">Burnside Bridge</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thanks for participating in this quadrant/neighborhood discussion. I don't think the Burnside Bridge article should be included in the Southeast Portland category if it is already labeled with the Buckman neighborhood category, which is itself a subcategory of the Southeast Portland category. Ideally, the article would only appear in neighborhood categories and not quadrant categories. However, in this case, Old Town Chinatown screws that up a little since it straddles Burnside and therefore cannot be labeled a subcategory of either NW Portland or SW Portland. But if we can categorize the bridge by its two eastside neighborhoods (one NE and one SE), and keep them from the parent NE and SE quadrant categories. ---<a href="/wiki/User:Another_Believer" title="User:Another Believer">Another Believer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Another_Believer" title="User talk:Another Believer">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Another_Believer-2014-12-21T00:17:00.000Z-Burnside_Bridge" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:17, 21 December 2014 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>NW, NE, and SE were already present, so I merely added SW. Although in general, I think it is better not to include an article in both a sub-category and in a super-category, I would take an exception in this case. If you include NW and SW but exclude NE and SE, it actually makes it appear that the bridge is NOT in the NE and SE quadrants. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2014-12-21T06:00:00.000Z-Another_Believer-2014-12-21T00:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:00, 21 December 2014 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Polite,_concise,_effective." data-mw-thread-id="h-Polite,_concise,_effective.-2015-01-23T11:15:00.000Z">Polite, concise, effective.</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Adelaide_city_centre&diff=next&oldid=643759307">The 'D' in WP:BRD means discuss on the talk page, not in edit summaries.</a> - Nicely done! (I'm envious of your skill(s)). <a href="/wiki/User:Pdfpdf" title="User:Pdfpdf">Pdfpdf</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pdfpdf" title="User talk:Pdfpdf">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Pdfpdf-2015-01-23T11:15:00.000Z-Polite,_concise,_effective." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:15, 23 January 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Oh, dear: I must confess that I'm often very guilty of this one. I'll try to stop doing that! <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2015-08-20T13:28:00.000Z-Pdfpdf-2015-01-23T11:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:28, 20 August 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>In many cases, I wouldn't be quite so dogmatic. But consider this history of edits: <ul><li>Ed1: (bold) Lots of changes with no edit summary</li> <li>Ed2: (revert) Reverted the above with this edit summary: <dl><dd>"I rather like some (not all) of the changes you have made, but per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">WP:BRD</a>, I suggest discussing them on the talk page is the best way forward."</dd></dl></li> <li>Ed1: (discuss?) Restored original edit, marking it as 'minor', with edit summary: <dl><dd>"Shouldn't have to discuss something that warrants change, the article is too image heavy early on, there's a gallery before any information? Gallerie belong at the end of the page. It also needed a detailed geography run down, tell me what you."</dd></dl></li> <li>YBG: Re-reverted with edit summary: <dl><dd>"The 'D' in WP:BRD means discuss on the talk page, not in edit summaries."</dd></dl></li></ul></dd> <dd>It seems that in this case, Ed1 committed several faux pas: <ol><li>Complex edit with no edit summary</li> <li>Declined to discuss in the forum requested by Ed2</li> <li>Marked edit as minor, contrary to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Minor_edit" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Minor edit">WP:minor edit</a>, where it says: <ul><li>"If there is any chance that another editor might dispute a change, it is best not to mark the edit as minor."</li> <li>"Reverting a page is not likely to be considered minor under most circumstances. When the status of a page is disputed, and particularly if an edit war is brewing, then it is better not to mark any edit as minor. Reverting blatant vandalism is an exception to this rule."</li></ul></li></ol></dd> <dd>Without these, I may not have insisted "the 'D' in WP:BRD means discuss on the talk page, not in edit summaries". <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-09-08T01:31:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2015-08-20T13:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:31, 8 September 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DB" data-mw-thread-id="h-DB-2015-01-26T00:18:00.000Z"><a href="/wiki/DB" class="mw-disambig" title="DB">DB</a></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Somehow I've gotten sucked up into what seems to an outsider as a quasi-religious edit war. This page was watchlisted since I had made a small <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=614189577&oldid=582261510">edit</a> to the lead back in June 2014. So when Ahunt <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=next&oldid=624182893">made a change</a>, citing the 'longstanding consensus; at <a href="/wiki/MOS:LINUX" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:LINUX">MOS:LINUX</a>, and was then <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=643767563&oldid=643537000">reverted</a> by Dsprc, I jumped in and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=643778177&oldid=643767563">restored</a> the page back to Ahunt's version, saying "Please read previously cited MOS" in my edit summary. Ahunt later thanked me for this edit. Dsprc then <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=643871835&oldid=643778177">reverted</a> my edit, with an edit summary that made me go back and re-read <a href="/wiki/MOS:LINUX" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:LINUX">MOS:LINUX</a>. My understanding of the MOS, which Ahunt cites but Dsprc says is POV, is that WP should use "GNU/Linus" only as part of the formal title of a distribution, not elsewhere. I have no opinion as to whether that is a good MOS or not. But based on that, I looked at <a href="/wiki/Dyne:bolic" title="Dyne:bolic">dyne:bolic</a> and then later at their <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.dynebolic.org/">website</a> (in the legalese at the bottom of the page) and became convinced that the formal title for this thing is "dyne:bolic GNU/Linux". Consequently, it seemed to me that I could make Ahunt happy by confirming to the MOS and make Dsprc happy by including the GNU/ prefix if I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=643879696&oldid=643871835">reworded</a> the dab item to use "dyne:bolic GNU/Linux" as the title, followed by a comma, and a description "a distribution of the Linux operating system". Ahunt then <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=643961198&oldid=643879696">removed</a> the "GNU/Linux", which Dsprc <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=644009011&oldid=643961198">restored</a>. Ahunt then <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=644114405&oldid=644009011">shortened</a> the dab entry, which was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DB&diff=644168244&oldid=644114405">reverted</a> by Dsprc. I'm sorely tempted to say 'a pox on both your houses', but then one thing I really like about WP is that I have seen people have very strong opinions, disagree, and then finally come together. I've often been the one that needed convincing, but occasionally I've been the one who has been persuasive. I'm hoping that in this current situation the editors could agree that the wording I inserted complies with <a href="/wiki/MOS:LINUX" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:LINUX">MOS:LINUX</a> and let it stand. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-01-26T00:18:00.000Z-DB" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 26 January 2015 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Adelaide_city_centre" data-mw-thread-id="h-Adelaide_city_centre-2015-01-27T14:02:00.000Z"><a href="/wiki/Adelaide_city_centre" title="Adelaide city centre">Adelaide city centre</a></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Howdy! As far as I'm concerned, I think "we are there". And I think you feel the same. But I'm not sure about others. (None of which other than Ashton 29 have responded.) Do I care? Well ... no and yes. But I do feel a little guilty that we may have "steamrollered" the result. On the other hand, we've given others PLENTY of opportunity to add their 2c - hence, only a "little" guilty. So! What's stopping you/(us) closing the matter? (Other than guilt?) <a href="/wiki/User:Pdfpdf" title="User:Pdfpdf">Pdfpdf</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pdfpdf" title="User talk:Pdfpdf">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Pdfpdf-2015-01-27T14:02:00.000Z-Adelaide_city_centre" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:02, 27 January 2015 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Collapsing_tables_and_widths" data-mw-thread-id="h-Collapsing_tables_and_widths-2015-02-08T22:26:00.000Z">Collapsing tables and widths</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-style" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><a href="/wiki/File:Pictogram_resolved.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="check-mark" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Pictogram_resolved.svg/25px-Pictogram_resolved.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Pictogram_resolved.svg/38px-Pictogram_resolved.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Pictogram_resolved.svg/50px-Pictogram_resolved.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></a></td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Template:Help_me" title="Template:Help me">help request</a> has been answered. If you need more help, you can <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MyTalk&action=edit&section=new&preload=Help:Contents/helpmepreload&preloadtitle=Help+me%21">ask another question on your talk page</a>, contact the responding user(s) directly on their <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_talk_pages/2" title="Help:Introduction to talk pages/2">user talk page</a>, or consider visiting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table>I'm looking for some rather technical help in formatting tables. I recently reformatted the information at <a href="/wiki/Properties_of_metals,_metalloids_and_nonmetals#Comparisons" title="Properties of metals, metalloids and nonmetals">Properties of metals, metalloids and nonmetals § Comparisons</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Properties_of_metals,_metalloids_and_nonmetals&oldid=646246939#Comparisons">permalink</a>) to use collapsing sub-tables. My problem is that the column widths of the different sub-tables don't match. I see a slight improvement if I expand all sub-tables and if remove the collapsible parameter. I'd really like the column widths to match exactly. What am I missing? <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-02-08T22:26:00.000Z-Collapsing_tables_and_widths" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:26, 8 February 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a>, I believe the issue is that you haven't actually specified the width of the tables themselves. "30em" is the minimum width of the table, so depending on the contents and browser being used the borders will change. The two possible solutions (that I can think of) are to either specifically define the width of the table, or specifically define the width of each column (I think the former is the better option). Personally, though, I would not split the two tables ("Physical properties" and "Chemical properties"), mainly based off <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Tables#Size" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Tables">this section</a>. Up to you though. If you want more help, stop by the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Teahouse</a>, the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/?nick=WPhelp?#wikipedia-en-help">IRC channel</a>, or the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HELPDESK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HELPDESK">help desk</a> to ask someone for assistance. <a href="/wiki/User:Primefac" title="User:Primefac">Primefac</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Primefac" title="User talk:Primefac">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Primefac-2015-02-08T22:45:00.000Z-YBG-2015-02-08T22:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 8 February 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>FYI, in <a class="external text" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_metals,_metalloids_and_nonmetals">mobile view</a> the collapse does not exist (is expanded always). And as Primefac noted, folded text in articles is bad for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACCESS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACCESS">accessability</a> (losing page overview). And at least I would make the two tables collapsing, not six. -<a href="/wiki/User:DePiep" title="User:DePiep">DePiep</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DePiep" title="User talk:DePiep">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-DePiep-2015-02-09T10:26:00.000Z-Primefac-2015-02-08T22:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>This has been overcome by events; we no longer have collapsing tables in the article. But there is an even bigger problem. It appears that tables do not appear at all when articles are printed or exported as PDFs. This seems to be a major problem. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-02-22T06:35:00.000Z-DePiep-2015-02-09T10:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:35, 22 February 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Texas_vs._Florida" data-mw-thread-id="h-Texas_vs._Florida-2015-04-16T01:55:00.000Z">Texas vs. Florida</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Great thing about Wikipedia, great minds like ours get together and become more the the sum of our parts. Nice working with you. <a href="/wiki/User:Czolgolz" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Czolgolz">Czolgolz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Czolgolz" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Czolgolz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Czolgolz-2015-04-16T01:55:00.000Z-Texas_vs._Florida" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Virginia_Governors" data-mw-thread-id="h-Virginia_Governors-2015-05-11T02:19:00.000Z">Virginia Governors</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thank you for the info, surprising what a difference a "-" makes! <a href="/wiki/User:Danthompson351" title="User:Danthompson351">Danthompson351</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Danthompson351" title="User talk:Danthompson351">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Danthompson351-2015-05-11T03:13:00.000Z-Virginia_Governors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:13, 11 May 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Your welcome! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-05-11T03:23:00.000Z-Danthompson351-2015-05-11T03:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:23, 11 May 2015 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>This was in response to the following posted at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Danthompson351#Virginia_governors" title="User talk:Danthompson351">User talk:Danthompson351 § Virginia governors</a>, where I wrote: <dl><dd><dl><dd>I notice you've added a new section several times and reverted it after each attempt. I'm guessing that you reverted because it messed up the format. Your problem is that you've been ending the table with |-}, which is incorrect -- you actually need to end it with |}. If you'll look back at the history of the article, you will find a version where I inserted the section with the correct table-ending code and a few other changes I thought helpful. If you have any questions, ask them here and I'll try to respond. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-05-11T02:19:00.000Z-Danthompson351-2015-05-11T03:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:19, 11 May 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Yoghurt" data-mw-thread-id="h-Yoghurt-2015-05-14T20:11:00.000Z">Yoghurt</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I'm planning to write an article about Action on Sugar.<a href="/wiki/User:Rathfelder" title="User:Rathfelder">Rathfelder</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rathfelder" title="User talk:Rathfelder">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Rathfelder-2015-05-14T20:11:00.000Z-Yoghurt" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 14 May 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Thanks for the explanation. Feel free to restore the wikilink now or if you prefer, wait until a stub article is created.<a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-05-15T06:48:00.000Z-Rathfelder-2015-05-14T20:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:48, 15 May 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Response_to_your_questions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Response_to_your_questions-2015-08-02T03:48:00.000Z">Response to your questions</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I'm responding to <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DePiep&diff=674151567&oldid=674143433">your questions</a> here, as I don't think it would be constructive to continue at DePiep's page while they remain blocked and upset. I'll take them in reverse order. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLOCK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLOCK">WP:BLOCK</a>: "Blocks serve to protect the project from harm, and reduce likely future problems." As there is a history of disruptive behavior with the user, and it repeated again with this incident, it was my opinion that it would lead to more problems if left unchecked. Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy#Duration_of_blocks" title="Wikipedia:Blocking policy">Wikipedia:Blocking_policy#Duration_of_blocks</a>: "The duration of blocks should thus be related to the likelihood of a user repeating inappropriate behavior. Longer blocks for repeated and high levels of disruption is to reduce administrative burden; it is under presumption that such users are likely to cause frequent disruption or harm in future." I considered an indefinite block, and requiring a successful unblock appeal <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Ucla90024&diff=670929323&oldid=669437130">like in this case of persistent disruption</a>, but opted instead for editing privileges to be regained automatically after 72 hours, at the latest. Their unblock request was denied by another admin. As I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Edit_warring&diff=674002914&oldid=674002190">attempted to make clear earlier at WP:AN3</a>, this block was motivated by the longer term pattern of behavior, not for the individual incident, which also explains my decision to—in your words—give "a pass" to the other party. I hope that explains things, even if you don't necessarily agree. Regards.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Bagumba-2015-08-02T03:48:00.000Z-Response_to_your_questions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:48, 2 August 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>OK, @<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>:, I see that admin policy considers previous history in determining block length. You say "My preference is always to assume that warnings can be teaching moments, and let otherwise productive editors such as DePiep and Alakzi move on to more valuable edits without the need for a timeout." But in this case, one party received a 72-hour block and the other party was not even warned (unless I missed something). <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-08-02T11:45:00.000Z-Bagumba-2015-08-02T03:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:45, 2 August 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>FWIW, there was <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alakzi#Template:Infobox_gridiron_football_person" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Alakzi">this</a>, which may or may not be what you were expecting.—<a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bagumba" title="User talk:Bagumba">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Bagumba-2015-08-02T23:19:00.000Z-YBG-2015-08-02T11:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:19, 2 August 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>You're right, <a href="/wiki/User:Bagumba" title="User:Bagumba">Bagumba</a>, it's not what I expected. But I do believe it is positive. Although it appears that I am <a href="/wiki/Help:Wikipedia:_The_Missing_Manual/Collaborating_with_other_editors/Communicating_with_your_fellow_editors#Extended_conversations" title="Help:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual/Collaborating with other editors/Communicating with your fellow editors">reading only half of an extended conversation</a> (one of my pet peeves), nevertheless, I can see that (a) you <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/673875074" title="Special:Diff/673875074">offered</a> Alakzi a friendly suggestion for how to avoid edit warring and that (b) Alakzi <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/673909675/673910860" title="Special:Diff/673909675/673910860">responded</a> with an acknowledgement of how he could have acted differently. That looks like a textbook example of the positive results of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">AGF</a>. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-08-03T01:01:00.000Z-Bagumba-2015-08-02T23:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:01, 3 August 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Beaverton_City_Library" data-mw-thread-id="h-Beaverton_City_Library-2015-09-10T14:16:00.000Z"><a href="/wiki/Beaverton_City_Library" title="Beaverton City Library">Beaverton City Library</a></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thanks for creating a redirect. I went ahead and converted to a stub. :) ---<a href="/wiki/User:Another_Believer" title="User:Another Believer">Another Believer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Another_Believer" title="User talk:Another Believer">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Another_Believer-2015-09-10T14:16:00.000Z-Beaverton_City_Library" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:16, 10 September 2015 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Just_a_thought" data-mw-thread-id="h-Just_a_thought-2015-11-07T16:59:00.000Z">Just a thought</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I noticed that there was a dust-up about students making and reverting test edits. Hypothetically, if each of your students were to get their own user name, they could create their own personal <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox" title="Wikipedia:Sandbox">sand box(es)</a> (as many as they wished) to which they could copy entire text from articles, and then alter them. They then could work on these till the cows come home. And there would be no conflict or cause for concern. Just a gentle suggestion from an outside disinterested party. Feel free to disregard my message if you find it inappropriate, irrelevant, disrespectful or officious. I have the best of intentions, and none of these was intended. FWIW, I want your students to succeed and to graduate into full-fledged wikipedia editors. We need all the help we can get. Best regards. <a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User talk:7&6=thirteen">☎</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-7&6=thirteen-2015-11-07T16:59:00.000Z-Just_a_thought" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:59, 7 November 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a>: No, I don't find your message objectionable in any way, but it does arouse my curiosity. I followed a recent 'dust-up' about a teacher making and reverting test edits, but I'm pretty sure I didn't even comment. I trust you won't find it objectionable if I ask you a question. What prompted you to leave me this message? I am puzzled. Thanks, and happy editing! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-11-07T20:25:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2015-11-07T16:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:25, 7 November 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I ran across it on somebody's talk page. I did not read it closely enough, I gather. Erroneously thought you were involved. Sorry for disturbing your tilling in the garden. Best regards. <a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User talk:7&6=thirteen">☎</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-7&6=thirteen-2015-11-07T21:15:00.000Z-YBG-2015-11-07T20:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 7 November 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Any chance you can remember where? <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-11-07T22:20:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2015-11-07T21:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:20, 7 November 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Hi there. Let me know if I can help. I might be "somebody". Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Valfontis" title="User:Valfontis">Valfontis</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valfontis" title="User talk:Valfontis">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Valfontis-2015-11-08T07:03:00.000Z-Just_a_thought" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:03, 8 November 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>No worries. I suspected that it might have been that my post at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valfontis#Please_accept_my_sincere_apology" title="User talk:Valfontis">User talk:Valfontis § Please accept my sincere apology</a> was immediately before the talk page section that discussed the "dust-up". Maybe @<a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a>: could verify that was the place? <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-11-08T21:33:00.000Z-Valfontis-2015-11-08T07:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 8 November 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I do think it was on one of those two pages. I am a talk page lurker (on both pages, I think), and learn a lot as I do that. I find interesting subjects, controversies, etc. Sometimes I see the world through a different lens. Occasionally I throw in my 2₵. Hope that helps. <a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User talk:7&6=thirteen">☎</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-7&6=thirteen-2015-11-08T23:02:00.000Z-YBG-2015-11-08T21:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:02, 8 November 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a>: Hey, no worries. It was just really puzzling to me because I am not a teacher and don't have students. It has all been a good learning experience for me. I, too, have been a 'talk page lurker' and have on more than one occasion read things a bit too quickly and jumped to incorrect conclusions. Usually it has ended well, but occasionally I've unnecessarily caused confusion where there would otherwise have been none. So, happy editing! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-11-08T23:17:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2015-11-08T23:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:17, 8 November 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Infobox_constitutional_amendment" data-mw-thread-id="h-Infobox_constitutional_amendment-2015-12-15T01:00:00.000Z">Infobox constitutional amendment</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Riffing off our recent discussion in <a href="/wiki/Talk:Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution" title="Talk:Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution">Talk:Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution</a>, I went ahead and created (in my sandbox) a draft {{<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_constitutional_amendment&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Infobox constitutional amendment (page does not exist)">infobox constitutional amendment</a>}}, and started a discussion under the section <a href="/wiki/Talk:Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Infobox_constitutional_amendment" title="Talk:Seventeenth Amendment to the United States Constitution">Infobox constitutional amendment</a>. Your input would be appreciated. <a href="/wiki/User:TJRC" title="User:TJRC">TJRC</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TJRC" title="User talk:TJRC">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-TJRC-2015-12-15T01:00:00.000Z-Infobox_constitutional_amendment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:00, 15 December 2015 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Template_talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2016" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template_talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2016-2015-12-25T21:47:00.000Z"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:United States presidential election, 2016">Template talk:United States presidential election, 2016</a></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">WP:BRD</a>, I have posted to <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:United States presidential election, 2016">Template talk:United States presidential election, 2016</a> regarding whether <a href="/wiki/Rod_Silva_(businessman)" title="Rod Silva (businessman)">Rod Silva (businessman)</a> should be included on <a href="/wiki/Template:United_States_presidential_election,_2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:United States presidential election, 2016">Template:United States presidential election, 2016</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Metropolitan90" title="User:Metropolitan90">Metropolitan90</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Metropolitan90" title="User talk:Metropolitan90">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Metropolitan90-2015-12-25T21:47:00.000Z-Template_talk:United_States_presidential_election,_2016" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:47, 25 December 2015 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Record_Franz_Joseph_I" data-mw-thread-id="h-Record_Franz_Joseph_I-2015-12-28T23:18:00.000Z">Record Franz Joseph I</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I think Queen Elizabeth II would surpass Franz Joseph I on 28 January 2020 because Franz Joseph I reigned 68 years, 355 days. On 17 January 2020 Queen would reigning 68 years 344 days. — Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Miszaki89&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Miszaki89 (page does not exist)">Miszaki89</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Miszaki89" title="User talk:Miszaki89">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Miszaki89" title="Special:Contributions/Miszaki89">contribs</a>) <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Miszaki89&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Miszaki89 (page does not exist)">Miszaki89</a>: Thanks for promptly responding. Please discuss this at <a href="/wiki/Talk:List_of_monarchs_in_Britain_by_length_of_reign" title="Talk:List of monarchs in Britain by length of reign">talk:List of monarchs in Britain by length of reign</a> so that others can contribute to the discussion. Also, don't forget to sign by including ~~~~ at the end of your posts. If you want to make sure that someone is notified of a point on a talk page, use the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Ping" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ping">ping</a>}} template, like I have here. Thanks for your efforts to improve our encyclopedia! Cheers! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-12-28T23:18:00.000Z-Record_Franz_Joseph_I" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 28 December 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Note_to_Reywas92" data-mw-thread-id="h-Note_to_Reywas92-2016-01-19T06:58:00.000Z">Note to Reywas92</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> @<a href="/wiki/User:Reywas92" title="User:Reywas92">Reywas92</a>: Sometimes it works best to cite WP:MOS in edit summaries, e.g. <a href="/wiki/MOS:QUOTEMARKS" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:QUOTEMARKS">MOS:QUOTEMARKS</a>. But you seem to have come up with a fine comprise. That is what collaboration is all about. I well remember our work together at <a href="/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_abbreviations" class="mw-redirect" title="List of U.S. state abbreviations">List of U.S. state abbreviations</a>. It was my first significant WP collaboration. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-01-19T06:58:00.000Z-Note_to_Reywas92" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:58, 19 January 2016 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_Dobos_torte_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_Dobos_torte_for_you!-2015-11-09T00:46:00.000Z">A <a href="/wiki/Dobos_torte" title="Dobos torte">Dobos torte</a> for you!</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><a href="/wiki/File:Dobos_cake_(Gerbeaud_Confectionery_Budapest_Hungary).jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Dobos_cake_%28Gerbeaud_Confectionery_Budapest_Hungary%29.jpg/120px-Dobos_cake_%28Gerbeaud_Confectionery_Budapest_Hungary%29.jpg" decoding="async" width="120" height="80" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Dobos_cake_%28Gerbeaud_Confectionery_Budapest_Hungary%29.jpg/180px-Dobos_cake_%28Gerbeaud_Confectionery_Budapest_Hungary%29.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Dobos_cake_%28Gerbeaud_Confectionery_Budapest_Hungary%29.jpg/240px-Dobos_cake_%28Gerbeaud_Confectionery_Budapest_Hungary%29.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1280" data-file-height="853"/></a> </td> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;"><a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User talk:7&6=thirteen">☎</a>) has given you a <a href="/wiki/Dobos_Torte" class="mw-redirect" title="Dobos Torte">Dobos Torte</a> to enjoy! Seven layers of fun because you deserve it. To give a Dobos Torte and spread the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiLove" title="Wikipedia:WikiLove">WikiLove</a>, just place {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Dobos_Torte" title="Template:Dobos Torte">subst:Dobos Torte</a>}} on someone else's talkpage, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. </td></tr></tbody></table> This template was my creation. Enjoy. Context is everything. <a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User talk:7&6=thirteen">☎</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-7&6=thirteen-2015-11-09T00:46:00.000Z-A_Dobos_torte_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 9 November 2015 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:7%266%3Dthirteen" title="User:7&6=thirteen">7&6=thirteen</a>: Thanks. Looks like it might have 7 layers of cake & 6 layers of filling, making a total = thirteen. Mmmm.... <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2015-11-09T01:03:00.000Z-7&6=thirteen-2015-11-09T00:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="License_plate_articles" data-mw-thread-id="h-License_plate_articles-2016-05-02T13:44:00.000Z">License plate articles</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> "Add current plate to top of article to prevent hovercard from showing blank plate." Not saying your edits here are wrong, but... I don't get it. <a href="/wiki/User:Bluebird207" title="User:Bluebird207">Bluebird207</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluebird207" title="User talk:Bluebird207">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Bluebird207-2016-05-02T13:44:00.000Z-License_plate_articles" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:44, 2 May 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I have <a href="/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures" title="Special:Preferences">opted</a> in to the <a href="/wiki/Hovercard" class="mw-redirect" title="Hovercard">hovercard</a> beta <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Beta_Features/Hovercards" class="extiw" title="mw:Beta Features/Hovercards">feature</a> so that when my cursor hovers over a link I see a preview of the article lede with the first picture. In most of the license plate articles, the first picture was <a href="/wiki/File:Blank_License_Plate_Shape.jpg" title="File:Blank License Plate Shape.jpg">file:Blank License Plate Shape.jpg</a>, a most uninteresting picture. Hope this explanation helps. Cheers! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-05-02T13:59:00.000Z-Bluebird207-2016-05-02T13:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:59, 2 May 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Yes, this explanation certainly does help. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Bluebird207" title="User:Bluebird207">Bluebird207</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bluebird207" title="User talk:Bluebird207">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Bluebird207-2016-05-03T00:30:00.000Z-YBG-2016-05-02T13:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:30, 3 May 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="May_2016" data-mw-thread-id="h-May_2016-2016-05-09T08:49:00.000Z">May 2016</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> The following comment is moved here to refactor my talk page: <hr/> Hello, you kindly deleted my message to Tewapack. You support trolls? Or are you the same person?? Do you advocate providing false information on Wiki??? <hr/> It was <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/719366790" title="Special:Diff/719366790">added</a> by <a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a> at 07:51, May 9 2016 (UTC) My response is at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Golfeditor1#May_2016" title="User talk:Golfeditor1">user talk:Golfeditor1 § May 2016</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-05-09T08:49:00.000Z-May_2016" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:49, 9 May 2016 (UTC)</a> Hello YBG, thank you. I understand your points, however it shouldn't require my publicly (and forever) publishing a copy of my ID and passport to substantiate points that require attention. ...when various personal information and links are wrong, then it should be self-evident to the editor in question. I am not prepared to publish my identification documents. Furthermore, in context of the comparisons you made, wrong portrayals can be deemed slanderous and pursued by litigation. If I were a politician or high-profiler that would be a certainty. Regards Lincoln — Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Golfeditor1" title="User talk:Golfeditor1">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Golfeditor1" title="Special:Contributions/Golfeditor1">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Golfeditor1-2016-05-09T10:43:00.000Z-May_2016" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:43, 9 May 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>OK, we can talk over here if you prefer. Again, remember to use four tildes to add a timestamped signature line. There is a more information about how to use talk pages over at <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">Help:Using talk pages</a>, especially <a href="/wiki/Help:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_use" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Using talk pages">Help:Using talk pages § Talk page use</a>.</dd> <dd>I don't quite understand why you think anyone is asking you to publish your identification documents. There is no need for that at all.</dd> <dd>You say various personal information and links are wrong, but that it isn't immediately self-evident to me. I could go back over the edit history and try to figure it out, but maybe you could just let me know what it is you think should be changed or deleted. Then I can look at your proposed changes and the cited references and tell you specifically what I recommend. I may even be able to do some of this myself. Also, if you would prefer to communicate off-wiki, you can use the "email this user" link available on the left hand side of my talk page.</dd> <dd>All the best. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-05-10T00:53:00.000Z-Golfeditor1-2016-05-09T10:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:53, 10 May 2016 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a>: Not sure if you have seen this. Please help me by letting me know what you think should be changed. You can contact me here or via the "e-mail this user". It may be a few days before I can get back to you, but I would like to help. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-05-20T17:32:00.000Z-Golfeditor1-2016-05-09T10:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:32, 20 May 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> the following was moved here to be in proper order <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-05-22T04:33:00.000Z-May_2016" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 22 May 2016 (UTC)</a> Hello, thank you. I have no idea how this "talk" works. Its a bit of a pain. Anyhow, when I officially changed my name via Deedpoll in 2014 I signed a legal document stating that I from that day forward relinquish the use of my old name. The reasons are personal and private as to why I did this, but it also has to do with my ending my tour career up until 2013. The facts that are stated wrong are eg nationality. I am born in Wolverhampton. I resided in Germany and played under Germany but I am English/British. Also my body height has changed. I grew to 172cm during rehabilitation and weigh 75kg. Then there are the player profiles. The European Tour has changed my name on file and adapted the history. The Sunshine Tour is in process of changing too. The MENA Tour profile is not quoting a correct name at all because they processed it wrong. It was never really relevant information, but it too refers to my old name. Also, for personal reasons I want no reference of my family or father made. All in all this equates to one of two scenarios: either the info is adapted to reflect the actual circumstance, which is impossible because all media and results refer to my old name still. or the page gets deleted. I prefer the deletion and I edit a new page if and when I may compete again. A third scenario is that the background info is amended and the career ends in 2013, which is technically true too. — Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Golfeditor1" title="User talk:Golfeditor1">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Golfeditor1" title="Special:Contributions/Golfeditor1">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Golfeditor1-2016-05-20T23:36:00.000Z-May_2016" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:36, 20 May 2016 (UTC)</a> the above was moved here to be in proper order <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-05-22T04:33:00.000Z-May_2016-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 22 May 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a>: Thank you for your helpful response. Let me think about it for a while and I'll get back to you with a recommendation as to what I think is the best way forward.</dd> <dd>In the mean time, let me explain a few things about how talk pages work. <ul><li>If you are starting a new discussion, add it to the bottom of the talk page by using the "New Section" (or "+") button at the top of the page.</li> <li>If you are continuing a discussion, edit the section that it appears in by using the "Edit" tab in that section and scroll to the bottom so that comments appear in chronological order, newest last.</li> <li>After the first comment, replies should be indented by using colons at the beginning of each paragraph. First response gets one colon, second gets two colons, etc.</li> <li>At the end of each comment, include four tildes (~~~~). The software will automatically change this into a signature line for you.</li> <li>Keep a discussion on the same talk page it was started on.</li> <li>If you want to make sure that the other editor is notified of your comment, you use {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Ping" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ping">ping</a>}}. The syntax is {{ping|othereditor}}</li> <li>Always <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">assume good faith</a>. Even if you are convinced that the other editor is really acting in bad faith, it is better to assume good faith.</li> <li>Never comment on another editor's character or motivation. It is best to ask a simple question that assumes good faith. If you absolutely must say something negative, make sure that it is speaking directly about the content of an edit and never about the editor themselves. Always avoid sarcasm or the like. It almost always makes things worse, not better.</li></ul></dd> <dd>I hope this brief introduction will help. You can find more details at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TP">WP:TP</a>.</dd> <dd>Talk page etiquette is helpful, but sometimes experienced editors forget what it was like to be a new editor faced with a steep learning curve. We're supposed to be patient and not 'bite' newcomers, but alas, we sometimes forget, so it helps if newcomers can be patient too!</dd> <dd>It helps if newcomer and experienced editors both remember that sometimes unintentional failure to follow talk page etiquette can appear like intentional rudeness. If both parties forget this and forget to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">assume good faith</a>, the result is unpleasant not only for the two editors but for other members of the WP community.</dd> <dd>Happy editing! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-05-22T06:06:00.000Z-YBG-2016-05-22T04:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:06, 22 May 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="June_2016" data-mw-thread-id="h-June_2016">June 2016</h2></div> The Lincoln Birch page is not authorised!! — Preceding text originally posted on <a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG" title="User talk:YBG">User Talk:YBG</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:YBG&diff=prev&oldid=727079249">diff</a>) by <a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Golfeditor1" title="User talk:Golfeditor1">talk</a>⋅<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Golfeditor1" title="Special:Contributions/Golfeditor1">contribs</a>) 2016 June 26 14:22:44‎ (UTC) <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Golf_editing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Golf_editing-2016-06-29T07:31:00.000Z">Golf editing</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd>I have just finished looking again at <a href="/w/index.php?title=Lincoln_Birch&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Lincoln Birch (page does not exist)">this article</a> and carefully checking the references. This resulted in a few changes and allowed lead sentence to be simplified.</dd> <dd>I have been very careful to annotate almost every fact with a source, and to remove most of the information not supported by the sources.</dd> <dd>A few loose ends remain: <ul><li>1. All remaining unsourced information has been marked {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Citation_needed" title="Template:Citation needed">citation needed</a>}}. Any references to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">reliable sources</a> would be appreciated. <dl><dd>1(a) Three tours (Gateway, Sunshine, EPD)</dd> <dd>1(b) The 2011 Hamburg PGA championship</dd></dl></li> <li>2. For the tours which are sourced, I'm not 100% sure I've got the years correct. Any clarification would be greatly appreciated. <dl><dd>2(a) For the MENA tour, I listed the two years in which <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.menagolftour.com/player/762/lincoln-t-birch">the source</a> includes a tournament in the timeline.</dd> <dd>2(b) For the Challenge & Euro tours, I included all year which <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=31689/record/index.html">the source</a> lists a positive number in the "tournaments played" column. Alternatively, I could list the years with positive numbers in either the "Rank" (="TR"?) column or the "In Money" column. I don't know what the standard practice is in golf, so if anyone can clarify this, please do.</dd></dl></li></ul></dd> <dd>I have tried to take into consideration all of the input I have previously received. Further help would be greatly appreciated. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-06-29T07:31:00.000Z-Golf_editing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:31, 29 June 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a>: Any comments or suggestions? <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-07-18T04:47:00.000Z-YBG-2016-06-29T07:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:47, 18 July 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a>: thank you; difficult to find Gateway Tour results archive because closed and re-launched in the meantime; PGA of Hamburg has no archive; MENA Tour years are correct; concise works <a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Golfeditor1" title="User talk:Golfeditor1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Golfeditor1-2016-08-21T00:52:00.000Z-YBG-2016-06-29T07:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:52, 21 August 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Golfeditor1" title="User:Golfeditor1">Golfeditor1</a>: Good to hear from you. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-08-21T05:26:00.000Z-Golfeditor1-2016-08-21T00:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:26, 21 August 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="River_categories" data-mw-thread-id="h-River_categories-2016-07-11T02:40:00.000Z">River categories</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I'm startubg a new discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CFD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CFD">WP:CFD</a> about the naming of river categories. Since you have participated in t least one of the recent discussions in the matterm you nay want to express your opinion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_July_11#Rivers" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 11">Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 July 11#Rivers</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Od_Mishehu" title="User:Od Mishehu">עוד מישהו</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Od_Mishehu" title="User talk:Od Mishehu">Od Mishehu</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Od_Mishehu-2016-07-11T02:40:00.000Z-River_categories" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:40, 11 July 2016 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Heavy_metals_uses" data-mw-thread-id="h-Heavy_metals_uses-2016-09-08T04:24:00.000Z">Heavy metals uses</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> G'day YBG. I've added another paragraph to the start of the Uses section so as to address an FAC request by Johnbod for something about why HM are suited for their uses. I temporarily restored the paragraph at the end of the intro to this section---the one you had trimmed a little earlier. I did this because I wrote the new para in the context of there being an opening para in the intro section, and a closing paragraph (the one you trimmed). Now that I've more or less finished with this section pls feel free to do some more ce as per your original intent, if you reckon this would still be beneficial. Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2016-09-08T04:24:00.000Z-Heavy_metals_uses" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 8 September 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Thank you! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-09-08T06:50:00.000Z-Sandbh-2016-09-08T04:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:50, 8 September 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Problem_cut+paste_moves_in_heavy_metals" data-mw-thread-id="h-Problem_cut+paste_moves_in_heavy_metals-2016-09-17T04:27:00.000Z">Problem cut+paste moves in heavy metals</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> A recent move from <a href="/wiki/Heavy_metal_(science_and_technology)" class="mw-redirect" title="Heavy metal (science and technology)">Heavy metal (science and technology)</a> to <a href="/wiki/Heavy_metals" class="mw-redirect" title="Heavy metals">Heavy metals</a> was done using a cut-and-paste, which should not have been done as it messes up the history and prevenance of the text. <table class="wikitable"> <tbody><tr> <th>Old before move / new after</th> <th>Heavy metal (science and technology)</th> <th>Heavy metals </th></tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739663429/739704488" title="Special:Diff/739663429/739704488">special:diff/739663429/739704488</a> </td> <td><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heavy_metal_(science_and_technology)&action=history">article history</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/739663429" title="Special:PermanentLink/739663429">special:permalink/739663429</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739704509" title="Special:Diff/739704509">special:diff/739704509</a></li></ul> </td> <td><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heavy_metals&action=history">article history</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/661653718" title="Special:PermanentLink/661653718">special:permalink/661653718</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739704488" title="Special:Diff/739704488">special:diff/739704488</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739706972" title="Special:Diff/739706972">special:diff/739706972</a></li></ul> </td></tr> <tr valign="top"> <td><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739702578/739703796" title="Special:Diff/739702578/739703796">special:diff/739702578/739703796</a> </td> <td><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heavy_metal_(science_and_technology)&action=history">talk history</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/739702578" title="Special:PermanentLink/739702578">special:permalink/739702578</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739703807" title="Special:Diff/739703807">special:diff/739703807</a></li></ul> </td> <td><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Heavy_metals&action=history">talk history</a> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/661653653" title="Special:PermanentLink/661653653">special:permalink/661653653</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739703796" title="Special:Diff/739703796">special:diff/739703796</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739707870" title="Special:Diff/739707870">special:diff/739707870</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739717580" title="Special:Diff/739717580">special:diff/739717580</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739719011" title="Special:Diff/739719011">special:diff/739719011</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739719397" title="Special:Diff/739719397">special:diff/739719397</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739781005" title="Special:Diff/739781005">special:diff/739781005</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739782653" title="Special:Diff/739782653">special:diff/739782653</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/739783059" title="Special:Diff/739783059">special:diff/739783059</a></li></ul> </td></tr></tbody></table> <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-09-17T04:27:00.000Z-Problem_cut+paste_moves_in_heavy_metals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:27, 17 September 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I thought I had to do it that way because where I wanted to move the "HM (science & technology)" article to i.e. "Heavy metals", was already a redirect article. Would there've been another way to do it? <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2016-09-17T04:42:00.000Z-YBG-2016-09-17T04:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:42, 17 September 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I may as well learn some more about the process. How does it mess up the provenance of the articles? They all still exist (don't they?) and one can see their histories and edit summaries, and therefore track provenance? <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2016-09-17T04:51:00.000Z-Sandbh-2016-09-17T04:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:51, 17 September 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>At the very least, it means that you have to look in two places, and you have to know that you have to look in two places. I understand that an admin can do a history merge afterwards, and that is one way to rectify the issue. I was thinking of doing something different, namely: <ul><li>Verify that above history includes all recent changes</li> <li>Open up all pre-move pages</li> <li>Prepare to restore all pre-move pages</li> <li>Re-verify that no new changes have been made</li> <li>Restore pages to state before cut+paste move</li> <li>Move "Heavy metals" to "Heavy metals (saved history)" to save history and make way for move</li> <li>Move "Heavy metal (science and technology)" to "Heavy metals" to redo cut+paste move</li> <li>Redirect "Heavy metals (saved history)" to "Heavy metals"</li> <li>Redirect "Talk:Heavy metal (saved history)" to point to "Talk:Heavy metals"</li> <li>Restore post-move changes to article page</li> <li>Restore post-move changes to talk page using cut+paste</li> <li>Add quoted-from template to each talk page entry</li></ul></dd> <dd>But having now looked at {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Uw-c%26pmove" title="Template:Uw-c&pmove">Uw-c&pmove</a>}} and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:HISTMERGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:HISTMERGE">WP:HISTMERGE</a>, I think we should just tag the page and wait for an admin to help. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-09-17T05:04:00.000Z-Sandbh-2016-09-17T04:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:04, 17 September 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Headslap! I see. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2016-09-17T05:14:00.000Z-YBG-2016-09-17T05:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:14, 17 September 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Unobtainium" data-mw-thread-id="h-Unobtainium-2016-10-08T08:06:00.000Z">Unobtainium</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Obviously dysprosium is not like the fictional unobtainium. It is just that something of that name, or with a name of that meaning, actually does exist. Is that relevant to this article? I think so. You do not. If you insist, go ahead and remove it again. But if you do, please give "irrelevant" as your reason. Vague it is not.--<a href="/wiki/User:Klausok" title="User:Klausok">Klausok</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Klausok" title="User talk:Klausok">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Klausok-2016-10-08T08:06:00.000Z-Unobtainium" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:06, 8 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Klausok" title="User:Klausok">Klausok</a>: It was not me that used the term "vague", that was another editor. My edit summary mentioned two reasons I reverted. First (and primarily) it was becasue of a formatting error (section header duplicated a the end of the previous paragraph). Secondarily, because the info didn't seem encyclopedic. Nevertheless, I provided a comment and suggestion on your talk page for how I think this information could find an appropriate place in that article.</dd> <dd>If you think there is more discussion needed, please, let's do it in one place. If you prefer to continue here, then I'll add a quote of my original comment from your talk page. If you prefer to use your talk page, then I'll move these comments over there.</dd> <dd>Thanks! and happy editing <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-08T08:17:00.000Z-Klausok-2016-10-08T08:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:17, 8 October 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="the_"pretty_picture"" data-mw-thread-id="h-the_"pretty_picture"-2016-10-11T06:10:00.000Z">the "pretty picture"</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hey, thanks for the cosmetic fixes! I freely confess that that is not one of my strong suits at all. I considered leaving the transactinides in and colouring them grey, but decided on just omitting them: they are not really important elements for most chemists. I also wasted a good deal of time looking for some more values for Bk–Lr before throwing up my hands in defeat: no one seems to know them apart from "they're all close to −2.0 V". (A shame about Eu at −1.99 V though.) Some sources will also give you values for Ge, Sb, Te, and At, notwithstanding that according to <a href="/wiki/Metalloid" title="Metalloid">metalloid</a> these may not actually form simple cations. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:10:00.000Z-the_"pretty_picture"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:10, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Did you consider changing the 2.0 dividing line to something else to eliminate the borderline cases? <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-11T06:12:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:12, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I kept it at −2.0 V as a good predictor. Though it strikes me that for Eu some of this is undoubtedly because of atmospheric oxidation; Eu2+ is quite happy in anaerobic conditions. So I moved it, since you can plausibly argue that the value is a little lower than it ideally should be (and also, Eu is after all the most reactive lanthanide). The problem with Bk–Lr is that the values are not well-known at all and can vary by 0.2 V in each direction. Difficulty of testing on trace quantities can only make the problem worse. Ideally, you would expect them to become increasingly electropositive and reactive as atomic number goes up, since 5f shrinks deeply into the core and you should get europium-like reactivity in the late actinides (along with really strongly electropositive Lr with the potassium-like first ionisation energy). But we don't know this. Now with the orange blur it at least appear plausible that this is the trend, instead of the previous desperate collection of data from sources of varying quality and age. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:16:00.000Z-YBG-2016-10-11T06:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:16, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Hard to do much chemistry on a random atom or two, especially when they tend to disappear before you get them into the beaker. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-11T06:19:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:19, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Indeed! Have you ever seen the video reenactment of the discovery and chemical characterisation of <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrssJRb301k">mendelevium</a>? (It's already the third-last element I found any data at all for, albeit of obviously dubious quality – though even that is great for such a fugitive metal!) <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:23:00.000Z-YBG-2016-10-11T06:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:23, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Fascinating! Although the narrator at the very end seems to say "... in the June 1965 edition of Physical Review", but I think it should have said "June 1955". <dl><dd>Yes, that's right. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:49:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:49, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd>As a high school student, I spent a few summers in Berkeley in the late 60s and had a tour of the cyclotron, of which I remember hardly anything. What I found much more interesting was a demonstration of a <a href="/wiki/Lehmer_sieve" title="Lehmer sieve">Lehmer sieve</a>, the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=1AXx0v2pvMAC&pg=PA53&lpg=PA53&dq=dls+127+sieve&source=bl&ots=HXFQO9BCWZ&sig=tC1xbTfLI8X7SFwI2V-nh5PnFXU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiB1ojVktLPAhVH1WMKHcpHAsAQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=dls%20127%20sieve&f=false">DLS-127</a>. If memory serves, the demonstration was given by <a href="/wiki/Derrick_Henry_Lehmer" class="mw-redirect" title="Derrick Henry Lehmer">Lehmer</a> himself. It was quite fascinating. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-11T06:47:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:47, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Wow! That sounds really cool. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:49:00.000Z-YBG-2016-10-11T06:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:49, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>BTW, I just changed the wikicode behind one of your userboxes. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-11T07:01:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T06:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:01, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>No problem. What seems to have happened is that originally there was no default value, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:User_outlier%3Dhe&diff=prev&oldid=213766871">this editor changed it to "he"</a>, and then <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AUser_outlier%3Dhe&type=revision&diff=286451828&oldid=213766871">this IP editor changed it to "she"</a>. And there it stood for seven years, without anyone noticing that trying to leave it undetermined did not actually give the expected result. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2016-10-11T07:34:00.000Z-YBG-2016-10-11T07:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:34, 11 October 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Osmium_caption_in_the_Heavy_Metals_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Osmium_caption_in_the_Heavy_Metals_article-2016-10-16T11:07:00.000Z">Osmium caption in the Heavy Metals article</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Could this go into the frame around the osmium image, rather than where it is now in the info box template? The caption currently looks a little out of place. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2016-10-16T11:07:00.000Z-Osmium_caption_in_the_Heavy_Metals_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:07, 16 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I have modified the caption so that I think it fits better in the context. But to do what you want requires messing with the template, which I will now try. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-17T04:55:00.000Z-Sandbh-2016-10-16T11:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:55, 17 October 2016 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>OK, now I've modified {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Sidebar_periodic_table" title="Template:Sidebar periodic table">sidebar periodic table</a>}} so that the caption parameter is inside the pic frame. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-17T05:08:00.000Z-Sandbh-2016-10-16T11:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:08, 17 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Thanks, it looks nice now---like a collectible card. I'll have a go at tuning the caption. It currently reads like the crystalline form is nearly twice the density, whereas all (solid) forms of osmium, not just the crystalline form, have the same high density. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2016-10-17T05:57:00.000Z-YBG-2016-10-17T05:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:57, 17 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Try that. Still only three lines. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <dl><dd>Now it's just two! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-17T06:30:00.000Z-Sandbh-2016-10-17T05:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:30, 17 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Impressive! <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2016-10-17T07:21:00.000Z-YBG-2016-10-17T06:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:21, 17 October 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="HSAB" data-mw-thread-id="h-HSAB-2016-10-17T08:29:00.000Z">HSAB</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> "I have now discovered that having the two images the same height is not quite what is needed, it is a bit more complicated." If you can explain to me what is needed, I can try to create the required combined image. I would create it as an .SVG, rather than the .PNGs you cited in the Help Desk. <a href="/wiki/User:Maproom" title="User:Maproom">Maproom</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maproom" title="User talk:Maproom">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Maproom-2016-10-17T08:29:00.000Z-HSAB" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:29, 17 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Osmium" data-mw-thread-id="h-Osmium-2016-10-20T23:48:00.000Z">Osmium</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237032888/mw-parser-output/.tmulti">.mw-parser-output .tmulti .multiimageinner{display:flex;flex-direction:column}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .trow{display:flex;flex-direction:row;clear:left;flex-wrap:wrap;width:100%;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .tsingle{margin:1px;float:left}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .theader{clear:both;font-weight:bold;text-align:center;align-self:center;background-color:transparent;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .thumbcaption{background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .text-align-left{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .text-align-right{text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .text-align-center{text-align:center}@media all and (max-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmulti .thumbinner{width:100%!important;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:none!important;align-items:center}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .trow{justify-content:center}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .tsingle{float:none!important;max-width:100%!important;box-sizing:border-box;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .tsingle .thumbcaption{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .tmulti .trow>.thumbcaption{text-align:center}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmulti .multiimageinner img{background-color:white}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmulti .multiimageinner img{background-color:white}}</style><div class="thumb tmulti tright"><div class="thumbinner multiimageinner" style="width:224px;max-width:224px"><div class="trow"><div class="tsingle" style="width:222px;max-width:222px"><div class="thumbimage"><a href="/wiki/File:Osmium_crystals.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="A silvery thumbnail-size chunk of osmium with a highly irregular crystalline surface." src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Osmium_crystals.jpg/220px-Osmium_crystals.jpg" decoding="async" width="220" height="141" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Osmium_crystals.jpg/330px-Osmium_crystals.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Osmium_crystals.jpg/440px-Osmium_crystals.jpg 2x" data-file-width="4824" data-file-height="3099"/></a></div></div></div><div class="trow" style="display:flex"><div class="thumbcaption"><center>Crystals of <a href="/wiki/Osmium" title="Osmium">osmium</a>, a heavy metal nearly twice as dense as <a href="/wiki/Lead" title="Lead">lead</a>.</center></div></div></div></div> I asked at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk#Removing_the_icon_on_the_right_of_image_cation_boxes" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">help desk</a> about getting rid of the double box icon to the right of the image caption. Another editor suggested using this multiple image template. I added the center html tags to the text. Would there be an acceptable way of getting this template into the <a href="/wiki/Heavy_metals" class="mw-redirect" title="Heavy metals">Heavy metals</a> sidebar template? <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2016-10-20T23:48:00.000Z-Osmium" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:48, 20 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I tried making the change to {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Sidebar_periodic_table/sandbox" title="Template:Sidebar periodic table/sandbox">sidebar periodic table/sandbox</a>}}, and previewing the HM article, but it didn't make any difference. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-22T19:07:00.000Z-Sandbh-2016-10-20T23:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:07, 22 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I've moved the pic back outside the sidebar. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-22T19:32:00.000Z-YBG-2016-10-22T19:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 22 October 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Elemental_importance" data-mw-thread-id="h-Elemental_importance-2016-10-31T05:30:00.000Z">Elemental importance</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> John Emsley's Nature's Building Blocks singles out the following elements as having required the most number of words: H, Li, C, N, O, F, Na, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Cl, K, Ca, Ti, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, As, Se, Ag, Cd, Sn, Sb, I, Ce, W, Pt, Au, Hg, Pb, Th, U, and Pu. (Cerium?! I would never have expected!!) <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2016-10-31T05:30:00.000Z-Elemental_importance" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:30, 31 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Not sure what Emsley means. Requires most words for what? <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-31T05:42:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2016-10-31T05:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:42, 31 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>To write the section in his book. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2016-10-31T06:04:00.000Z-YBG-2016-10-31T05:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:04, 31 October 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>So it is a list of elements by the length of the section in his book? In other words, the off-line version of what I was attempting in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:ELEM#Raw_data_to_classify_element_articles" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:ELEM">WT:ELEM#Raw data to classify element articles</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-10-31T06:13:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2016-10-31T06:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:13, 31 October 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Ask_an_American",_2nd_ed." data-mw-thread-id="h-"Ask_an_American",_2nd_ed.-2016-11-11T06:12:00.000Z">"Ask an American", 2nd ed.</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi! I've got another question for you re America and American perspectives on things. This time, it's not really related to Wiki, but <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.vox.com/2016/9/2/12774066/voter-id-laws-racist">this</a> article caught my eye. It said requirements of some states to carry a photo ID when voting is targeted against blacks, and I genuinely wonder why they think so. I mean, every American citizen has an American passport, right? And the said passport surely has a photo in it? Really, I don't quite follow. Could you explain that for me?--<a href="/wiki/User:R8R_Gtrs" class="mw-redirect" title="User:R8R Gtrs">R8R</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R8R_Gtrs#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:R8R Gtrs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-R8R_Gtrs-2016-11-11T06:12:00.000Z-"Ask_an_American",_2nd_ed." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:12, 11 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>First of all, most Americans don't have passports. In 2015 there were <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/passports/statistics.html">125,907,176</a> US passports in a population of <a href="/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Vital_statistics_2" class="mw-redirect" title="Demography of the United States">321,442,000</a>, so about 60% of the population don't hold passports. It stands to reason. Most of us don't travel overseas, and they cost about $135 for 10 years.</dd> <dd>But most of us do drive -- <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/hf/pl11028/chapter4.cfm">87%</a> of driving-age Americans have licenses (more in rural areas and less in large metros). In my state, you pay $40 every eight years for your license, and for the same amount, non-drivers can have photo id card. Such state matters vary from place to place, but I believe my state is fairly typical.</dd> <dd>But to come to the issue of voter ID and race, here is how I think the reasoning goes: <ul><li>Since It is harder for poor people to get photo id cards due to the fees, the cost of travel and the time off work</li> <li>Therefore photo ID requirements disproportionately hinder poor people from voting</li> <li>And since African Americans are on average poorer than the general population</li> <li>Therefore photo ID requirements disproportionately hinder Blacks from voting</li></ul></dd> <dd>But coming closer to the center of the debate: <ul><li>Since Photo ID requirements disproportionately hinder Blacks from voting</li> <li>And since All men of good will desire the greatest possible participation in elections</li> <li>Therefore All men of good will should oppose photo ID requirements</li> <li>And since Many republicans favor photo ID requirements</li> <li>Therefore Republicans are motivated by a desire to disenfranchise Blacks</li></ul></dd> <dd>Or on the other side of the <a href="/wiki/Aisle_(political_term)" title="Aisle (political term)">aisle</a>: <ul><li>Since Photo ID requirements hinder voter fraud</li> <li>And since All men of good will are opposed to voter fraud</li> <li>Therefore All men of good will should favor photo ID requirements</li> <li>And since Many democrats oppose photo ID requirements</li> <li>Therefore Democrats are motivated by a desire to allow voter fraud</li></ul></dd> <dd>Now the first <a href="/wiki/Syllogism" title="Syllogism">argument</a>, IMHO, is generally <a href="/wiki/Soundness" title="Soundness">sound</a>, having <a href="/wiki/Valid" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Valid">valid</a> reasoning based on true premises. The issue is one of significance -- how much harder is it, how many poor people are so affected, and whether those amounts are sufficient to overcome other considerations. But the 2nd and 3rd arguments IMHO use clearly invalid reasoning. Both confuse being willing to accept a consequence with being motivated to achieve a consequence. And both completely ignore the give-and-take trade-offs involved in almost all political issues.</dd> <dd>What seems to be missing from a lot of political debate is simple willingness to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">assume good faith</a> in those one disagrees with. Well, what should we expect? If we have problems with AGF in WP -- where all that is at stake is an encyclopedia, how much more in the RL political arena where the stakes are much greater.</dd> <dd>I hope this has been helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-11-12T10:02:00.000Z-R8R_Gtrs-2016-11-11T06:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:02, 12 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Thank you very much for your answer. I read it a few hours ago and took my time to rethink it. In general, I was able to build this whole line of reasoning prior to asking you except then it would require passport to be non-essential in the U.S., to which I was like, "nah, can't be." Turns out, however, it can! This is quite amusing to me. I'd think it's the state who needs you to have a passport to keep track on you, at very least because that's how it is in Russia (where I am from). I just took a second and read a description of the citizenship in the U.S. from <a href="/wiki/Voice_of_America" title="Voice of America">Voice of America</a>, and, wow. That's a different approach in a relationship between a state and a citizen. You certainly wouldn't be able to do that in here. As a Russian citizen, you must have a passport, which costs you 2000 rubles (~$30), I think? But it's not considered that you are buying it, you're rather paying the fee for the bureaucracy around the passport, but not buying the passport itself. The idea for paying for a driving license is also unusual, but comprehensive. Thank you for pointing that out. That gives me a different perspective on what a state can be.</dd> <dd>As for your strings of logic, I understood the problem in a similar way. My understanding, however, was based on a basis I couldn't entirely rationalize---hence the question in first place.</dd> <dd>By the way, congratulations on your elections! Whether you like your President-elect or not, you can enjoy the fact you couldn't tell who would win the election before it happened; not to say correctly tell. Competitiveness in this respect is to be celebrated. (In contrast, I am mostly sure that our President will win the election in 2018---in fact, his advisers are worried about that the victory doesn't become too lopsided rather than the victory itself--- and the biggest possible obstacle to that outcome is not a particular candidate or set of candidates, but rather the uncertainty on whether he will run and whether the election will actually take place.)--<a href="/wiki/User:R8R_Gtrs" class="mw-redirect" title="User:R8R Gtrs">R8R</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R8R_Gtrs#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:R8R Gtrs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-R8R_Gtrs-2016-11-13T01:56:00.000Z-YBG-2016-11-12T10:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:56, 13 November 2016 (UTC)</a>t <dl><dd>I also read your initial question and mulled on it for a while before replying. In fact, I had a draft saved on my computer (in tmp.txt) but saved something on top of it (sigh) so I had to re-work the whole thing from scratch. And having spent nearly two days thinking about your response, I now remember a couple of things I left out.</dd> <dd>First of all, I think my use of the word "state" is different from yours - when I said "my state" I mean one of the 50 <a href="/wiki/U.S._State" class="mw-redirect" title="U.S. State">U.S. States</a>, but I think when you said "state" you meant the <a href="/wiki/Sovereign_state" title="Sovereign state">sovereign state</a> of Russia itself (or her government) rather than one of the <a href="/wiki/Federal_subjects_of_Russia" title="Federal subjects of Russia">federal subjects of Russia</a>. (We use the word in both senses and usually have no problem disambiguating it.) Anyway, our drivers licenses are issued by 50 different Departments of Motor Vehicles but our passports by the <a href="/wiki/United_States_State_Department" class="mw-redirect" title="United States State Department">United States State Department</a>. (That makes a 3rd use of the word 'state' -- just a little something to keep non-native speakers on their toes!) And we, too, would view the expense of both the passport and the drivers license as a fee toward maintaining the respective bureaucracies.</dd> <dd>And, not only are we not required to have a passport, we are not even required to have a drivers license unless we drive a car. Most young people get one as soon as they can, at 16 in most states. People almost always carry their license, but we are not required to except when driving. (In the UK, I think they don't even require that!) But since 9/11, we have been required to present a government-issued photo id of one sort or another for domestic air travel; a great deal was made of being willing to require a photo-id for air travel but unwilling to require it for voting.</dd> <dd>And thank you for your congratulations! It is one of a few things I've heard this election season that should unite and encourage Americans on both sides of the political aisle. IMHO it ranks with <a href="/wiki/File:AshCarter9NOVmemo.png" title="File:AshCarter9NOVmemo.png">this memo</a> (and others like it) indicating that after 58 elections coming as regular as clockwork every four years for two and quarter centuries, this will be yet another of the two dozen or so peaceful transitions of power from one political party to another.</dd> <dd>And for me personally, the most touching encouragement came in a pre-election letter from a Christian whose own culture and government is antagonistic toward his faith, in which he reminded American Christians not to place their hope in a <a href="/wiki/Democratic_donkey" class="mw-redirect" title="Democratic donkey">donkey</a> (the symbol of <a href="/wiki/Democratic_party_(United_States)" class="mw-redirect" title="Democratic party (United States)">Democratic party</a>) or an <a href="/wiki/Republican_elephant" class="mw-redirect" title="Republican elephant">elephant</a> (symbol of the <a href="/wiki/Republican_party_(United_States)" class="mw-redirect" title="Republican party (United States)">Republican party</a>), but only in the <a href="/wiki/Lamb_of_God" title="Lamb of God">Lamb</a> (the symbol of Jesus Christ).</dd> <dd>I have mentioned your congratulations to RL friends and all of them have found it very encouraging. Thank you again!</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-11-15T06:03:00.000Z-R8R_Gtrs-2016-11-13T01:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:03, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>As for "state": I did know that the U.S. is different in that respect from Russia and most other European countries (though I'm not all that sure about, say, Switzerland and their cantons). I know that individual states have their local taxes and I vaguely remembered from school the talk about how the fighters for independence from Britain were the "thirteen colonies" and not one something. Also, the name "United States" gives a good hint at it. Moreover, some time ago I stumbled on <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtMwmepBjTSG593eG7ObzO7s">Crash Course U.S. History</a> (an educational and somewhat entertaining show), from which, in particular, I learned that prior to the Civil War, residents of the U.S. took alliance to their state, rather than the entity of the U.S. as a whole, as their primary political self-identification. And therefore, it was the case for when the Founding Fathers declared independence, wrote the Constitution, and so on. So I think I understand the general talk about states and state-ness in the U.S. (It makes me feel a little better about the American system now that I've learned this is also meant to be your support to those bureaucracies.)</dd> <dd>Well, not having to have a driver's license is far easier to get on with: it is meant to display that the state thinks you can be permitted to drive a car and that's not, while useful, cannot be a necessity. (To put it to its extremes, especially if you're physically challenged, which may easily prohibit driving a car but certainly can't be a reason to deprive you of citizenship.) Also, the Founding Fathers surely didn't have any cars around.</dd> <dd>My pleasure! I'm cheerful to know my words met such a reaction. In a way, I envy you; your system has become quite stable and our system has yet to reach that stability. Seemingly our current system is not all that stable in the long run. Looking forward to the future to see what changes then, to the better or to the worse.--<a href="/wiki/User:R8R_Gtrs" class="mw-redirect" title="User:R8R Gtrs">R8R</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R8R_Gtrs#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:R8R Gtrs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-R8R_Gtrs-2016-11-15T13:42:00.000Z-YBG-2016-11-15T06:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:42, 15 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I just finished listening to a couple of episodes of the Crash Course. As I listened, I couldn't help wondering how it would be for a non-native speaker to understand the rapid fire talk. And then there are the subtle allusions that probably couldn't be picked up without already knowing a fair amount of U.S. history. I particularly enjoyed the subtle tip-of-the-hat to <a href="/wiki/This_machine_kills_fascists" title="This machine kills fascists">folk singer Woody Guthrie</a>. Thanks for sharing!</dd> <dd>Another interesting tidbit that may have been covered in one of the many episodes I didn't listen to: before our civil war, the name of our country was generally treated as a plural noun (The United States are ...); but since then we almost exclusively treat it as a singular noun (The United States is ...).</dd> <dd>Thanks again! 07:02, 16 November 2016 (UTC) <dl><dd>My pleasure! Yes, they do mention that and I learned that from them on my first view (and finally I learned where that grammatical irregularity came from).--<a href="/wiki/User:R8R_Gtrs" class="mw-redirect" title="User:R8R Gtrs">R8R</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R8R_Gtrs#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:R8R Gtrs">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-R8R_Gtrs-2016-11-18T08:01:00.000Z-R8R_Gtrs-2016-11-15T13:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:01, 18 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>And as near as I can figure, it is totally unrelated to the difference between en-uk and en-us in which on one side of the Atlantic it would be said that "Parliament are considering the issue" but on the other side it would be said that "Congress is considering the issue." It has been well said that the US and the UK are two countries divided by a common language. Or maybe it is all part of a vast conspiracy to disadvantage non-native speakers! :)</dd> <dd>My list of bi-partisan encouraging words from our recent election continues to grow. As I was shared your comments by e-mail with a friend who has had a fair deal of contact with foreign students, he related a story of a newly arrived African student, who in all seriousness asked his American friends where was the best place to hide on election day. In his experience, election day was synonymous with civil unrest. Although we have had some election-related protests here, I still does not appear that this year's will be as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOTE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOTE">notable</a> as 1968. But no one here thinks as this poor soul did, and for that we can be grateful.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-11-18T15:19:00.000Z-R8R_Gtrs-2016-11-18T08:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:19, 18 November 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Halogens_are_not_a_group" data-mw-thread-id="h-Halogens_are_not_a_group-2016-11-14T00:17:00.000Z">Halogens are not a group</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Just to enjoy: this <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Periodic_table_(32_columns,_compact)#Halogens" title="Template talk:Periodic table (32 columns, compact)">#Halogens</a> thing once again shows that we all did a great job back in 2013: redefining the categories. Three years and still standing! Even the working title "option 10" is still used. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:ELEMENTS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:ELEMENTS">WT:ELEMENTS</a> is a great WP forum to work with/on/in. As said: enjoy our quality :-) -<a href="/wiki/User:DePiep" title="User:DePiep">DePiep</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DePiep" title="User talk:DePiep">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-DePiep-2016-11-14T00:17:00.000Z-Halogens_are_not_a_group" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:17, 14 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Countervandalism_is_supposed_to_remove_vandalism" data-mw-thread-id="h-Countervandalism_is_supposed_to_remove_vandalism-2016-11-20T15:22:00.000Z">Countervandalism is supposed to remove vandalism</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Vianney&diff=749552330&oldid=749411972">This edit of yours</a> restored vandalism and after another editor tried to fix it, ClueBot reverted them. In the future please be more careful. <a href="/wiki/User:Chris_troutman" title="User:Chris troutman">Chris Troutman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chris_troutman" title="User talk:Chris troutman">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Chris_troutman-2016-11-20T15:22:00.000Z-Countervandalism_is_supposed_to_remove_vandalism" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:22, 20 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Template:Self-trout" title="Template:Self-trout"><img alt="trout" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/20px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/30px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Rainbow_trout_transparent.png/40px-Rainbow_trout_transparent.png 2x" data-file-width="327" data-file-height="327"/></a> Self-trout Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Chris_troutman" title="User:Chris troutman">Chris troutman</a>, for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AGF" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AGF">assuming good faith</a>, in presuming that it was carelessness on my part. And much to my embarassment, my careless revert allowed the vandalism to stand for nearly a week, and even messed ClueBot up! Many, many thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-11-20T21:13:00.000Z-Chris_troutman-2016-11-20T15:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:13, 20 November 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="RE:Living_PsOTUS_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-RE:Living_PsOTUS_discussion-2016-11-28T20:03:00.000Z">RE:Living PsOTUS discussion</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I see that <a href="/wiki/User:Neve-selbert" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Neve-selbert">Neve-selbert</a> is urging you to again revert your changes at Living Presidents of the United States to the old status quo, and plotting action against me if I "revert and therefore obstruct" you from doing so. When I restored your new version a week ago, I did so because I hated to see you throw in the towel after putting in so much effort into the changes. That's why when I restored it, I tinkered with the table, in an attempt to fold some of the observations of others into it. Yes, in hindsight, your creation was "not ready for prime time", and I most certainly should have let sleeping dogs lie; but a new consensus was germinating (if painfully). That said, forgive me for countermanding your decision. If you choose again to remove the new version and restore the old, I will respect your decision. I hope that discussions for bringing change to the table will continue no matter what, as I agree with your assessment that the old version "is rather ugly and unnecessarily duplicates information". Regarding your participation in that discussion, it's always difficult to facilitate a discussion AND be an active participant in it; I, for one, have no problem with the way you've been participating. You don't appear to be ignoring the opinions of others or pushing your own ideas too much (with perhaps the exception of the ongoing discussion regarding the duration column, but I'll leave it to you to reflect on this area). Finally, as you asked about ways that your talk page involvement could be improved, try looking at your role not as one of trying to "drive [the discussion] to consensus", but rather one of trying to "assist it toward consensus". There's a difference, and thinking about that difference is helpful for me in such situations. Thanks again, for your constructive hard work on that page. Cheers. <a href="/wiki/User:Drdpw" title="User:Drdpw">Drdpw</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Drdpw" title="User talk:Drdpw">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Drdpw-2016-11-28T20:03:00.000Z-RE:Living_PsOTUS_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:03, 28 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Thank you for your kind words, which arrived as I was in the midst of formulating my recent talk page announcement. Thank you for the helpful distinction between "driving" and "assisting" in the process of moving a discussion toward a consensus. It is a helpful distinction, and while I think my intention is more to ward assisting, using the word "drive" could result in misunderstanding, especially as I am involving myself both as a participant and as a facilitator. Oh, and most of all, thank you for your active participation in the talk page discussion! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-11-28T20:25:00.000Z-Drdpw-2016-11-28T20:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:25, 28 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>For the record, I asked <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> to revert to the original version until we came to a consensus on the alignment and the various tweaks that you had made. You reverted four times within 24 hours and you were let off for it (contrary to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:3RR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:3RR">WP:3RR</a> and to my bewilderment). If "plotting against" you means enforcing Wikipedia's guidelines and code of conduct, then so be it. I support the redesign, but I oppose your constant reverting sprees when someone makes a tweak that you disagree with. I would personally recommend you read the essay <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">WP:BRD</a>, it should help you avoid similar discord like this in future. Good day,--<a href="/wiki/User:Neve-selbert" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Neve-selbert">Nevé</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Neve-selbert" title="Special:Contributions/Neve-selbert">–</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Neve-selbert" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Neve-selbert">selbert</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Neve-selbert-2016-11-28T23:11:00.000Z-YBG-2016-11-28T20:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Let me begin by saying that I have enjoyed my interactions with each of you but have found myself getting very frustrated nevertheless. This has been, I believe, largely of my own doing, because I tend to want to pigeon-hole people into nice, neat "good guy" / "bad guy" categories. (Alas, real life is never so simplistic!)</dd> <dd>Because of this, if I noticed some unpleasant interaction between Neve-selbert and Drdpw, and I had recently had good interactions with Neve, I just assumed that Drdpw was a "bad guy" - 'cause of course the one I'm interacting well with MUST be a "good guy".</dd> <dd>Then a few days later, I'd notice another bit of unpleasantness between the two of you, but this time it came after I'd had some good interactions with Drdpw, so I'd assume that Neve was a "bad guy" - 'cause of course anyone I'm interacting with well MUST be a "good guy".</dd> <dd>At some point I got frustrated 'cause I couldn't remember who was the good guy and who was the bad guy, and so I looked back through history and realized how I'd flip-flopped back and forth. Good thing I'd tried to put on a facade of assuming good faith!</dd> <dd>I hope both of you can see the humor in all of this and most of all can see that much of my frustration stemmed from ME, while trying to write things as though I was assuming good faith, actually in my mind only AGF of one person at a time.</dd> <dd>Anyway, that is all past now, and I will assume that each of you want the very best for the article and each of you will contribute to the discussion.</dd> <dd>And for the record, I know that Neve wanted to have things reverted for "just a short time" but I am expecting that reaching a consensus on the best possible alternative will take more than just a few days. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2016-11-29T01:13:00.000Z-Neve-selbert-2016-11-28T23:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:13, 29 November 2016 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Saraiki_requested_move" data-mw-thread-id="h-Saraiki_requested_move-2016-12-23T02:59:00.000Z">Saraiki requested move</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, you're welcome to comment in the move discussion at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Saraiki_dialect#Requested_move_23_December_2016" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Saraiki dialect">Talk:Saraiki dialect</a>. Thanks! – <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uanfala" title="User talk:Uanfala"> Uanfala (talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Uanfala-2016-12-23T02:59:00.000Z-Saraiki_requested_move" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:59, 23 December 2016 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_New_Year" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_New_Year-2017-01-01T01:20:00.000Z">Happy New Year</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em;border-radius: 1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);" class="plainlinks"><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif/212px-Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif" decoding="async" width="212" height="173" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif/318px-Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif 2x" data-file-width="352" data-file-height="288"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure><figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Happy_new_year_01.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/180px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png" decoding="async" width="180" height="176" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/270px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/360px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1317" data-file-height="1288"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <div class="center" style="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"><a href="/wiki/New_Year" title="New Year">Happy New Year</a>!</div> YBG, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable <a href="/wiki/New_Year" title="New Year">New Year</a>, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. --<a href="/wiki/User:Neve-selbert" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Neve-selbert">Nevé</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Neve-selbert" title="Special:Contributions/Neve-selbert">–</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Neve-selbert" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Neve-selbert">selbert</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Neve-selbert-2017-01-01T01:20:00.000Z-Happy_New_Year" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:20, 1 January 2017 (UTC)</a> <div class="center" style="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;">Send New Year cheer by adding {{<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Happy_New_Year_fireworks_without_header&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Happy New Year fireworks without header (page does not exist)">subst:Happy New Year fireworks without header</a>}} to user talk pages. </div> </div> Thank you, and I pray the same blessings for your New Year also! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-01-01T01:37:00.000Z-Happy_New_Year" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:37, 1 January 2017 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Death_anchor" data-mw-thread-id="h-Death_anchor-2017-01-03T01:59:00.000Z">Death anchor</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> What does the death anchor do? The template does not explain it well. --<a href="/wiki/User:Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_)" title="User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )">Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_)" title="User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_)-2017-01-03T01:59:00.000Z-Death_anchor" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:59, 3 January 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_)" title="User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )">Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )</a>: {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Anchor" title="Template:Anchor">anchor</a>}} provides a location for an incoming section link. Such anchors function in the same way as a section header. The anchors are inserted when another article or a redirect has a section link that is not the same as the section title. They are sometimes added when the anchor name and the section title are the same so that if the section title changes, the incoming section link will continue to function. See <a href="/wiki/MOS:LINK#Broken_section_links" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:LINK">MOS:LINK#Broken section links</a>. In the specific case of US presidents and vice presidents, I have created a series of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirect" title="Wikipedia:Redirect">WP:Redirects</a> like [[Death of <name>]] which point to [[<name>]]. Hope this helps! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-01-03T02:20:00.000Z-Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_)-2017-01-03T01:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:20, 3 January 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Very clever, thank you. I often have trouble finding the death information, since I add obituary references from the New York Times. You would think the death info would end the biography section, sometimes it is buried in the article. Marriage info is hard to find too. --<a href="/wiki/User:Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_)" title="User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )">Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_)" title="User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Richard_Arthur_Norton_(1958-_)-2017-01-03T02:48:00.000Z-YBG-2017-01-03T02:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:48, 3 January 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Dmitri_Mendeleev" data-mw-thread-id="h-Dmitri_Mendeleev-2017-01-03T03:37:00.000Z">Dmitri Mendeleev</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Thanks for your totally anal <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dmitri_Mendeleev&diff=757989250&oldid=757986047">revert</a>, complete with pompous "WP:NOTFORUM". Get a sense of humour. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/86.179.177.235" title="Special:Contributions/86.179.177.235">86.179.177.235</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:86.179.177.235" title="User talk:86.179.177.235">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-86.179.177.235-2017-01-03T03:37:00.000Z-Dmitri_Mendeleev" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:37, 3 January 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:86.179.177.235&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:86.179.177.235 (page does not exist)">86.179.177.235</a>: I did not recognize the intent of your note as humor. This is not unusual; often subtleties such as the writer's intent are not apparent when reading simple text without the benefit of non-verbal cues. In the same way, I see that you assumed pomposity from my edit summary, when in fact, all that was intended was to provide a terse pointer to the wikipedia policies that I thought were appropriate. I see on taking a closer look at your edit history that you have made a number of constructive edits, and for that, I thank you very much. I hope you will continue your involvement in this encyclopedia, contributing for a long time to come. All the best to you in this new year! <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-01-03T05:19:00.000Z-86.179.177.235-2017-01-03T03:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:19, 3 January 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Living_presidents" data-mw-thread-id="h-Living_presidents-2017-02-21T01:15:00.000Z">Living presidents</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> @<a href="/wiki/User:Neve-selbert" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Neve-selbert">Neve-selbert</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Drdpw" title="User:Drdpw">Drdpw</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Marbe166" title="User:Marbe166">Marbe166</a>: It seems I just can't leave <a href="/w/index.php?title=Living_Presidents_of_the_United_States&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Living Presidents of the United States (page does not exist)">Living Presidents of the United States</a> alone. I've got a new tables at <a href="/wiki/User:YBG/sandbox" title="User:YBG/sandbox">User:YBG/sandbox</a>. As we'd collaborated together before, I thought I'd see if you wanted to comment here before I solicit broader input at the article's talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-02-21T01:15:00.000Z-Living_presidents" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:15, 21 February 2017 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Icons_in_tables_in_m.wp" data-mw-thread-id="h-Icons_in_tables_in_m.wp-2017-02-26T01:16:00.000Z">Icons in tables in m.wp</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> This looks like a bug in the mobile software <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/767458153" title="Special:PermanentLink/767458153">special:permalink/767458153</a> Table in the lede displays OK in mobile and desktop view</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/767458153/767458154" title="Special:Diff/767458153/767458154">special:diff/767458153/767458154</a> Adding a section header before the table</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/767458154" title="Special:PermanentLink/767458154">special:permalink/767458154</a> ... misplaces the icons in the table header in mobile view</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/767458154/767458155" title="Special:Diff/767458154/767458155">special:diff/767458154/767458155</a> Adding text between section head and table</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/767458155" title="Special:PermanentLink/767458155">special:permalink/767458155</a> but mobile view still displays wrong</li></ul> <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-02-26T01:16:00.000Z-Icons_in_tables_in_m.wp" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:16, 26 February 2017 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_barnstar_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!-2016-10-24T10:40:00.000Z">A barnstar for you!</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="border: 1px solid #00FF00; background-color: #122317;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;"><a href="/wiki/File:Barnstar_-_technical_works.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Barnstar_-_technical_works.svg/200px-Barnstar_-_technical_works.svg.png" decoding="async" width="200" height="200" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Barnstar_-_technical_works.svg/300px-Barnstar_-_technical_works.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/47/Barnstar_-_technical_works.svg/400px-Barnstar_-_technical_works.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="500" data-file-height="500"/></a> </td> <td rowspan="2"> </td> <td style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; color: #00FF00;">The Technical Barnstar </td></tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid #00FF00; color: #00FF00;">Very well done <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&oldid=745916692">over at WP:SB</a>; thanks for taking the time to sort out such technicalities. Much appreciated, please continue your good efforts._ --<a href="/wiki/User:Neve-selbert" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Neve-selbert">Nevé</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Neve-selbert" title="Special:Contributions/Neve-selbert">–</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Neve-selbert" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Neve-selbert">selbert</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Neve-selbert-2016-10-24T10:40:00.000Z-A_barnstar_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:40, 24 October 2016 (UTC)</a> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Ping_test" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ping_test-2017-09-13T22:39:00.000Z">Ping test</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-10&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-10 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-10</a>: (12) 12th edit, discontiguous paragraphs, 1st with 5 tildes, 2nd with 3 tildes. 23:02, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (13) One failure msg, can't tell which. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-No-user-has-this-name-10-2017-09-13T23:02:00.000Z-Ping_test" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:04, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-11&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-11 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-11</a>: (14) 14th edit, discontiguous paragraphs, 1st with 5 tildes, 2nd with 3 tildes. 23:05, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (15) no failure received here. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-No-user-has-this-name-11-2017-09-13T23:05:00.000Z-Ping_test" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:06, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-13&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-13 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-13</a>: (16) 16th edit, discontiguous paragraphs, 1st with 3 tildes, 2nd with 5 tildes. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) -- (17) Both failures received <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T23:08:00.000Z-Ping_test" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> @<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-4&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-4 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-4</a>: (5) My 4th edit, two pings in discontiguous paragraphs. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) 22:44, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (6) Both failures received <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T22:44:00.000Z-Ping_test" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a> @<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name</a>: (1) This is to test pinging. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) 22:39, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (2) Ping failure received OK. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T22:39:00.000Z-Ping_test" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:41, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-2&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-2 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-2</a>: (3) Part of my 3rd edit, two pings in contiguous paragraphs. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) 22:42, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (4) Both failures received <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T22:42:00.000Z-YBG-2017-09-13T22:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:43, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-3&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-3 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-3</a>: (3) Part of my 3rd edit, two pings in contiguous paragraphs. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) 22:42, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (4) Both failures received <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T22:42:00.000Z-YBG-2017-09-13T22:39:00.000Z-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:43, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> @<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-5&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-5 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-5</a>: (5) My 4th edit, two pings in discontiguous paragraphs. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) 22:44, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (6) Both failures received <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T22:44:00.000Z-Ping_test-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a> @<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-6&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-6 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-6</a>: (7) My 7th edit, single ping ending with five tildes YBG <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-No-user-has-this-name-6-2017-09-13T22:55:00.000Z-Ping_test" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:55, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a> -- (8) Mystery solved: ping doesn't work when 5 tildes are used @<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-thius-name-7&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-thius-name-7 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-thius-name-7</a>: (8) My 8th test, single ping ending with three tildes <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) -- (9) Interestingly, generated 2 failure messages <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T22:59:00.000Z-Ping_test" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-8&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-8 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-8</a>: (10) 10th edit, contiguous paragraphs, 1st with 5 tildes, 2nd with 3 tildes. 23:00, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (11) Both failures received <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-No-user-has-this-name-8-2017-09-13T23:00:00.000Z-YBG-2017-09-13T22:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:01, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-9&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-9 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-9</a>: (10) 10th edit, contiguous paragraphs, 1st with 5 tildes, 2nd with 3 tildes. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) -- (11) Both failures received <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T23:01:00.000Z-YBG-2017-09-13T22:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:01, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-10&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-10 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-10</a>: (12) 12th edit, discontiguous paragraphs, 1st with 5 tildes, 2nd with 3 tildes. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) -- (13) One failure msg, can't tell which. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T23:04:00.000Z-YBG-2017-09-13T22:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:04, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-12&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-12 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-12</a>: (14) 14th edit, discontiguous paragraphs, 1st with 5 tildes, 2nd with 3 tildes. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) -- (15) failure received OK here. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-09-13T23:06:00.000Z-YBG-2017-09-13T22:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:06, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:No-user-has-this-name-14&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:No-user-has-this-name-14 (page does not exist)">No-user-has-this-name-14</a>: (16) 16th edit, discontiguous paragraphs, 1st with 3 tildes, 2nd with 5 tildes. 23:07, 13 September 2017 (UTC) -- (17) Both failures received <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-No-user-has-this-name-14-2017-09-13T23:07:00.000Z-YBG-2017-09-13T22:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 13 September 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Meetup_Invitation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Meetup_Invitation">Meetup Invitation</h2></div> You are invited to the upcoming <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Eugene/WikiAPA" title="Wikipedia:Meetup/Eugene/WikiAPA">Asian Pacific American Heritage month edit-athon</a>. This will be held on the first floor of the Knight library at the University of Oregon. For more information please see: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Eugene/WikiAPA" title="Wikipedia:Meetup/Eugene/WikiAPA">Wikipedia:Meetup/Eugene/WikiAPA</a>, a Facebook event link is also available on the Meetup page. <ul><li>Date: Friday, May 26, 2017</li> <li>Time: 12:00 pm – 4:00 pm</li> <li>Location: Edminston Classroom, <a href="/wiki/Knight_Library" title="Knight Library">Knight Library</a>, Room 144</li> <li>Address:1501 Kincaid Street, <a href="/wiki/Eugene,_Oregon" title="Eugene, Oregon">Eugene, Oregon</a>, 97403-1299</li></ul> Hope to see you there! <dl><dd>(This message was sent to WikiProject members via <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/Eugene/WikiAPA/MailingList" title="Wikipedia:Meetup/Eugene/WikiAPA/MailingList">Wikipedia:Meetup/Eugene/WikiAPA/MailingList</a> on 23:32, 10 May 2017 (UTC). To opt-out of future messages please remove your name from the mailing list.)</dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Second_opinion_needed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Second_opinion_needed-2017-07-19T17:52:00.000Z">Second opinion needed</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi! I'm writing <a href="/wiki/Thorium#Potential_use_for_nuclear_energy" title="Thorium">Thorium#Potential_use_for_nuclear_energy</a> and I've stumbled on a question I hope you can help me resolve. I can't lose the feeling something is missing. On the other hand, it doesn't feel right to explain how nuclear energy is collected in general (probably you know that a nuclear power station is essentially a big steam engine) because we are talking about a particular specific. Maybe a fresh look from you can help me resolve the question?--<a href="/wiki/User:R8R" title="User:R8R">R8R</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R8R#top" title="User talk:R8R">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-R8R-2017-07-19T17:52:00.000Z-Second_opinion_needed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:52, 19 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I've never asked for such help before but I thought you could help because you can take a fresh look at it and because, given your good analytical abilities as seen in our ELEMENTS discussions, perhaps you can get to it, if there's anything to get to :) --<a href="/wiki/User:R8R" title="User:R8R">R8R</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R8R#top" title="User talk:R8R">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-R8R-2017-07-19T19:23:00.000Z-R8R-2017-07-19T17:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:23, 19 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I hope to have a look at it in a day or two. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-07-19T19:25:00.000Z-R8R-2017-07-19T19:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:25, 19 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Thank you very much!--<a href="/wiki/User:R8R" title="User:R8R">R8R</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R8R#top" title="User talk:R8R">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-R8R-2017-07-19T19:26:00.000Z-YBG-2017-07-19T19:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:26, 19 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>I'm wikibreaking but I might have a chance to look at it in the mean time. Sorry. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-07-21T19:28:00.000Z-R8R-2017-07-19T19:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 21 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>That's alright. I've been able to rewrite text in a way that looks better; I'm even satisfied with it now. A second look is still welcome but no longer necessary, so nothing at all goes wrong if you can't take a look.--<a href="/wiki/User:R8R" title="User:R8R">R8R</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R8R#top" title="User talk:R8R">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-R8R-2017-07-21T20:15:00.000Z-YBG-2017-07-21T19:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 21 July 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Re_compelling_need_to_subcategorize_nonmetals" data-mw-thread-id="h-Re_compelling_need_to_subcategorize_nonmetals-2017-06-26T06:51:00.000Z">Re compelling need to subcategorize nonmetals</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Some of what you said overlaps with a line of argument I've been developing in my sandbox, <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh/sandbox#Arguing_for_a_one-move_adjustment" class="mw-disambig" title="User:Sandbh/sandbox">here</a>. I haven't quite posted it yet since DS are discussing some related nuances. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2017-06-26T06:51:00.000Z-Re_compelling_need_to_subcategorize_nonmetals" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:51, 26 June 2017 (UTC)</a> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Preferentially_ionic/covalent_NM" data-mw-thread-id="h-Preferentially_ionic/covalent_NM-2017-07-12T14:19:00.000Z">Preferentially ionic/covalent NM</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> @<a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a>: On a more serious note, what about subcategorizing the nonmetals into (a) noble gases (b) preferentially-ionic nonmetals and (c) preferentially-covalent nonmetals? Its not as sexy as isolating the corrosive NM, but I think that preferentially-ionic and preferentially-covalent are very nice ways of subdividing what it seems we've decided to call the chemically active nonmetals. Other things on the plus side: "preferentially" nicely incorporates the fuzziness factor into the names themselves and "covalent" vs "ionic" is seems so much more concrete a distinction, even considering the fuzziness of the border, than setting some value on a scale such as electronegativity. The latter may be more quantitative, but I think that even the casual reader would tend to suspect that the dividing line seems arbitrary and the more experienced professional might suggest that the numeric dividing line was chosen in order to produce the categorization that one's intuition prefers. <dl><dd>(Of course, all of this just reinforces my own intuitive preference to use qualitative distinctions for categorization as opposed to quantitative ones.)</dd></dl> So what do you think about subcategorizing the NM into "noble gases" and "chemically active nonmetals" and then subdividing the latter into "preferentially ionic nonmetals" and "preferentially covalent nonmetals"? Are there any chemically active nonmetals that don't really exhibit a clear preference one way or the other? That, of course, would kill this suggestion IMO. I'd stick this comment into your discussion, but I couldn't quickly figure out where. Feel free to dismiss this thread with a quick comment here, but if you think it might prove fruitful, insert it into the context of your ongoing discussion. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-07-12T14:19:00.000Z-Preferentially_ionic/covalent_NM" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:19, 12 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Just thought of another alternative that might work better: typically ionic nonmetals and typically covalent nonmetals. Not sure which I prefer from a semantic point-of-view, but 'typically' is shorter than 'preferentially' and all else being equal, shorter wins in my book. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-07-12T21:01:00.000Z-YBG-2017-07-12T14:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:01, 12 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Well, the trouble is that it depends a great deal on what you are bonding those elements to, so that even O and the halogens have a great deal of covalent chemistry too – as all first-year organic chemistry students will tell you. ^_^ <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2017-07-12T23:27:00.000Z-YBG-2017-07-12T21:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:27, 12 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>That would be a problem if the proposed names were "exclusively" covalent/ionic. But might it still be possible to say that a NM is "predominately" or "typically" covalent/ionic? What would a chart look like if we created a table where one dimension (rows/cols) were the 11 NM in question and the other dimension (cols/rows) were the entire set of elements, or at least some appropriate lower-Z subset, and the cells were colored once color for "exclusively covalent", another color for "exclusively ionic" and something in the middle for "it depends on things". Might that chart not give us some broad-brush-strokes insight? Or maybe not. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-07-12T23:43:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2017-07-12T23:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:43, 12 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Like I said, it depends on what you are bonding it to. Ionicity happens if the two bonding atoms are far apart in electronegativity, loosely speaking, so even with O or F you cannot get total ionicity. For example Si–O and Si–F bonds are clearly covalent and the nonmetals (which are very common) are more electronegative than Si. N is somewhat weakened by the high negative charge it must bear as an anion but the high coordination numbers found with <a href="/wiki/Lithium_nitride" title="Lithium nitride">Li3N</a> tells us that already Li–N is enough of a difference to cause ionicity, to a first approximation. And even with C, you can get significant ionicity if you have an electropositive metal like Na or K involved in organosodium and organopotassium compounds (e.g. NaMe, KMe, which really can be thought of as K+Me−!). I agree that there are "predominantly covalent" ones like P which are too close to the middle to ever have real ionicity, but there are no predominantly ionic nonmetals. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2017-07-12T23:53:00.000Z-YBG-2017-07-12T23:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:53, 12 July 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <table class="wikitable floatright" style="width: 17em; margin-left: 2em; margin-top: 0.1cm; margin-bottom: 0.25cm; font-size:90%"> <caption>Nonmetal groupings (Synder 1966) </caption> <tbody><tr> <th>Electronegativity</th> <th> </th></tr> <tr> <td>High</td> <td>O, F, Cl, Br, I </td></tr> <tr> <td>Intermediate</td> <td>C, N, S, Se </td></tr> <tr> <td>Low</td> <td>H, P </td></tr></tbody></table> There is some merit to an 11 x 92 chart for applicable binary compounds of the elements in (I guess) their most common oxidation states. Crudely speaking, when the 11 bond among themselves you get covalent compounds. When the 11 (minus O and the halogens) bond with metals you mainly get covalent compounds, except for some compounds with the group 1–3 metals. As I understand it, it's the other way round with O and the halogens, thus: "Most metal oxides and halides are ionic solids".R1 That said I've always been curious as to what degree the distinction between (a) O and the halogens, and (b) the other nonmetals, as far as their ionic/covalent chemistry goes, applied to iodine. Noting that bond strengths of the elements with one another are a pretty good indicator of electronegativity,R2 there is that table from Snyder,R3 who took the same approach, rating the elements according to their bond strengths with F, O, and Cl. <div style="font-size:90%"> <dl><dd>1. Brown TL, LeMay HE & Bursten BE et al. 2013, Chemistry: The central science, 3rd ed., Pearson Australia, Sydney, p. 240</dd> <dd>2. Williams AF 1979, A theoretical approach to inorganic chemistry, Springer-Verlag, Berlin, p. 186</dd> <dd>3. Synder MK 1966, Chemistry: Structure and reactions, Holt, Rinehart and Winston, New York, pp. 235–241, 242–243</dd></dl> </div> <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2017-07-13T01:53:00.000Z-Preferentially_ionic/covalent_NM" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:53, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>It is of course important to note that ionicity to covalency is really a spectrum and not only can you have compounds that look fairly intermediate (e.g. some semiconducting TM sulfides), things can also depend greatly on the oxidation state (e.g. PbCl2 is rather ionic while PbCl4 is rather covalent!). <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2017-07-13T02:00:00.000Z-Sandbh-2017-07-13T01:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:00, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> Agree; that is why I referred to the elements in their most common oxidation states which, in the case of Pb, is +2. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2017-07-13T03:48:00.000Z-Preferentially_ionic/covalent_NM" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:48, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>Unfortunately the d-block still messes with it a great deal, for example in things like MoF6 and WF6. As usual it is less about which oxidation states are common than how high they are, because elements are more electronegative in higher oxidation states. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2017-07-13T04:25:00.000Z-Sandbh-2017-07-13T03:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:25, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl> As a generalisation it should hold, and compared to the intermediate nonmetals I'd be quite surprised if there wasn't a significant difference. I had a look at the Phillips & Williams table of the oxides. Out of 62 metals (they don't show the An) 49 are rated by them as ionic for the most common oxidation state of the element in question = 79% (provisional, subject to re-checking and confirmation in slow time). <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2017-07-13T05:53:00.000Z-Preferentially_ionic/covalent_NM" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:53, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>My general impression is that N and the chalcogens (all the way down to Po in things like <a href="/wiki/Potassium_polonide" title="Potassium polonide">potassium polonide</a> IIRC) will give ionic compounds only with the most electropositive metals; that O and the halogens will give them with most of the metals; but in very hard cases, only O and F will do the trick. For example SnO2 and SnF4 are ionic, while SnCl4, SnBr4, and SnI4 are clearly covalent. So in a sense this creates three "tiers" for the most part, with {O, F} clearly towering over everything else, and {Cl, Br, I} respectable nonmetals that know where to draw the line. For sure oxidation state is a factor too, so that halogenating Re gives ReF7, ReCl6, ReBr5, and ReI4 respectively. I suspect that iodine looks better than it otherwise might because it is not good at bringing elements to their highest possible oxidation state, so that the electronegativity difference is not so attentuated as it would be for things like SnCl4. <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2017-07-13T06:18:00.000Z-Sandbh-2017-07-13T05:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:18, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>P.S. Once again I suspect that {Bi, Po, At} are really in a similar position to {Ge, As, Se}, where the middle member of both sets is surprisingly more metallic than the other two! Even Bi2O3 isn't even ionic; it's a semiconductor! In light of this I am inclined to think that At would probably be fairly nonmetallic in its bulk chemistry, but may well deserve to be called a metalloid for its bulk physical properties, since as we know trace At chemistry is rather like trace iodine chemistry in which iodine acts against its bulk nature and merrily forms cations. Tennessine might then be analogous to tellurium here, where the cationic tendencies start to become more real. I suppose we could classify the p-block metalloids as cases when both chemical and physical metallicity are very weak, whereas on the d-block only the chemical metallicity is. Unfortunately the only one of these elements we have a good picture of is Bi, which is a pity as I would want to see how Lv behaves (Mc is at least predicted to form the Mc+ cation and with such an oxidation state it should not be much worse than Ag+ or Tl+) to complete the picture (and maybe also Og!). <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2017-07-13T06:30:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2017-07-13T06:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:30, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>P.P.S. It seems to me that the situation of Po is quite a lot like that of Sn. Po has two allotropes, cubic α and rhombohedral β, of which the α form is the more metallic one and the stable one at STP. The allotropic situation of Sn is meanwhile too well-known to require comment. Both have II and IV as their main oxidation states (PoVI not being very well-established), and for both MIV has a quite nonmetallic chemistry while MII is pretty clearly metallic. I think the reason I am more comfortable with calling Po a metalloid than calling Sn as such is probably because SnII is quite stable and significant while PoII really isn't (it reduces water to form PoIV, although that is helped of course by the radioactivity). So Sn chemistry is mostly metallic, with a few exceptional cases like SnIVO2 and SnIVF4 making it even more so, while Po chemistry tends to skew towards nonmetallicity with HPoO3− being its most stable species in neutral aqueous solution. Lv is predicted to have a similar cubic α and rhombohedral β allotrope as well, but its article notes that LvII should be more stable than LvIV, so it ought to be more like Sn. Well, I think my personal <a href="/wiki/List_of_metalloid_lists" class="mw-redirect" title="List of metalloid lists">metalloid list</a> may well include the Wikipedia seven plus {Se, Bi, Po}, with a note on the possibility for Ts, and perhaps an apology for Sn and possibly also Lv! <a href="/wiki/User:Double_sharp" title="User:Double sharp">Double sharp</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Double_sharp" title="User talk:Double sharp">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Double_sharp-2017-07-13T06:56:00.000Z-Double_sharp-2017-07-13T06:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:56, 13 July 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_92×11_table" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_92×11_table-2017-07-19T06:53:00.000Z">The 92×11 table</h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table class="wikitable sortable"> <tbody><tr> <th colspan="2">Element </th> <th style="background:#e7ff8f">1: H </th> <th style="background:#a1ffc3">6: C </th> <th style="background:#e7ff8f">7: N </th> <th style="background:#e7ff8f">8: O </th> <th style="background:#e7ff8f">9: F </th> <th style="background:#a1ffc3">15: P </th> <th style="background:#a1ffc3">16: S </th> <th style="background:#e7ff8f">17: Cl </th> <th style="background:#a1ffc3">34: Se </th> <th style="background:#e7ff8f">35: Br </th> <th style="background:#e7ff8f">53: I </th></tr> <tr> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th></th> <th> </th></tr> <tr> <td>1</td> <td style="background:#e7ff8f"><a href="/wiki/Hydrogen" title="Hydrogen">H</a> </td> <td>c H2 </td> <td>x HmCn </td> <td>x HmNn </td> <td>x HmOn </td> <td>x HmFn </td> <td>x HmPn </td> <td>x HmSn </td> <td>x HmCln </td> <td>x HmSen </td> <td>x HmBrn </td> <td>x HmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>2</td> <td style="background:#c0ffff"><a href="/wiki/Helium" title="Helium">He</a> </td> <td>x HemHn </td> <td>x HemCn </td> <td>x HemNn </td> <td>x HemOn </td> <td>x HemFn </td> <td>x HemPn </td> <td>x HemSn </td> <td>x HemCln </td> <td>x HemSen </td> <td>x HemBrn </td> <td>x HemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>3</td> <td style="background:#ff9d9d"><a href="/wiki/Lithium" title="Lithium">Li</a> </td> <td>x LimHn </td> <td>x LimCn </td> <td>x LimNn </td> <td>x LimOn </td> <td>x LimFn </td> <td>x LimPn </td> <td>x LimSn </td> <td>x LimCln </td> <td>x LimSen </td> <td>x LimBrn </td> <td>x LimIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>4</td> <td style="background:#ffdead"><a href="/wiki/Beryllium" title="Beryllium">Be</a> </td> <td>x BemHn </td> <td>x BemCn </td> <td>x BemNn </td> <td>x BemOn </td> <td>x BemFn </td> <td>x BemPn </td> <td>x BemSn </td> <td>x BemCln </td> <td>x BemSen </td> <td>x BemBrn </td> <td>x BemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>5</td> <td style="background:#cccc99"><a href="/wiki/Boron" title="Boron">B</a> </td> <td>x BmHn </td> <td>x BmCn </td> <td>x BmNn </td> <td>x BmOn </td> <td>x BmFn </td> <td>x BmPn </td> <td>x BmSn </td> <td>x BmCln </td> <td>x BmSen </td> <td>x BmBrn </td> <td>x BmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>6</td> <td style="background:#a1ffc3"><a href="/wiki/Carbon" title="Carbon">C</a> </td> <td>x CmHn </td> <td>x C </td> <td>x CmNn </td> <td>x CmOn </td> <td>x CmFn </td> <td>x CmPn </td> <td>x CmSn </td> <td>x CmCln </td> <td>x CmSen </td> <td>x CmBrn </td> <td>x CmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>7</td> <td style="background:#e7ff8f"><a href="/wiki/Nitrogen" title="Nitrogen">N</a> </td> <td>x NmHn </td> <td>x NmCn </td> <td>c N2 </td> <td>x NmOn </td> <td>x NmFn </td> <td>x NmPn </td> <td>x NmSn </td> <td>x NmCln </td> <td>x NmSen </td> <td>x NmBrn </td> <td>x NmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>8</td> <td style="background:#e7ff8f"><a href="/wiki/Oxygen" title="Oxygen">O</a> </td> <td>x OmHn </td> <td>x OmCn </td> <td>x OmNn </td> <td>c O2 </td> <td>x OmFn </td> <td>x OmPn </td> <td>x OmSn </td> <td>x OmCln </td> <td>x OmSen </td> <td>x OmBrn </td> <td>x OmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>9</td> <td style="background:#e7ff8f"><a href="/wiki/Fluorine" title="Fluorine">F</a> </td> <td>x FmHn </td> <td>x FmCn </td> <td>x FmNn </td> <td>x FmOn </td> <td>c F2 </td> <td>x FmPn </td> <td>x FmSn </td> <td>c FCl </td> <td>x FmSen </td> <td>c FBr </td> <td>c FI </td></tr> <tr> <td>10</td> <td style="background:#c0ffff"><a href="/wiki/Neon" title="Neon">Ne</a> </td> <td>x NemHn </td> <td>x NemCn </td> <td>x NemNn </td> <td>x NemOn </td> <td>x NemFn </td> <td>x NemPn </td> <td>x NemSn </td> <td>x NemCln </td> <td>x NemSen </td> <td>x NemBrn </td> <td>x NemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>11</td> <td style="background:#ff9d9d"><a href="/wiki/Sodium" title="Sodium">Na</a> </td> <td>x NamHn </td> <td>x NamCn </td> <td>x NamNn </td> <td>x NamOn </td> <td>x NamFn </td> <td>x NamPn </td> <td>x NamSn </td> <td>i NaCl </td> <td>x NamSen </td> <td>x NamBrn </td> <td>x NamIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>12</td> <td style="background:#ffdead"><a href="/wiki/Magnesium" title="Magnesium">Mg</a> </td> <td>x MgmHn </td> <td>x MgmCn </td> <td>x MgmNn </td> <td>x MgmOn </td> <td>x MgmFn </td> <td>x MgmPn </td> <td>x MgmSn </td> <td>x MgmCln </td> <td>x MgmSen </td> <td>x MgmBrn </td> <td>x MgmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>13</td> <td style="background:#cccccc"><a href="/wiki/Aluminium" title="Aluminium">Al</a> </td> <td>x AlmHn </td> <td>x AlmCn </td> <td>x AlmNn </td> <td>x AlmOn </td> <td>x AlmFn </td> <td>x AlmPn </td> <td>x AlmSn </td> <td>x AlmCln </td> <td>x AlmSen </td> <td>x AlmBrn </td> <td>x AlmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>14</td> <td style="background:#cccc99"><a href="/wiki/Silicon" title="Silicon">Si</a> </td> <td>x SimHn </td> <td>x SimCn </td> <td>x SimNn </td> <td>x SimOn </td> <td>x SimFn </td> <td>x SimPn </td> <td>x SimSn </td> <td>x SimCln </td> <td>x SimSen </td> <td>x SimBrn </td> <td>x SimIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>15</td> <td style="background:#a1ffc3"><a href="/wiki/Phosphorus" title="Phosphorus">P</a> </td> <td>x PmHn </td> <td>x PmCn </td> <td>x PmNn </td> <td>x PmOn </td> <td>x PmFn </td> <td>x P </td> <td>x PmSn </td> <td>x PmCln </td> <td>x PmSen </td> <td>x PmBrn </td> <td>x PmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>16</td> <td style="background:#a1ffc3"><a href="/wiki/Sulfur" title="Sulfur">S</a> </td> <td>x SmHn </td> <td>x SmCn </td> <td>x SmNn </td> <td>x SmOn </td> <td>x SmFn </td> <td>x SmPn </td> <td>x S </td> <td>x SmCln </td> <td>x SmSen </td> <td>x SmBrn </td> <td>x SmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>17</td> <td style="background:#e7ff8f"><a href="/wiki/Chlorine" title="Chlorine">Cl</a> </td> <td>x ClmHn </td> <td>x ClmCn </td> <td>x ClmNn </td> <td>x ClmOn </td> <td>c FCl </td> <td>x ClmPn </td> <td>x ClmSn </td> <td>c Cl2 </td> <td>x ClmSen </td> <td>c ClBr </td> <td>c ClI </td></tr> <tr> <td>18</td> <td style="background:#c0ffff"><a href="/wiki/Argon" title="Argon">Ar</a> </td> <td>x ArmHn </td> <td>x ArmCn </td> <td>x ArmNn </td> <td>x ArmOn </td> <td>x ArmFn </td> <td>x ArmPn </td> <td>x ArmSn </td> <td>x ArmCln </td> <td>x ArmSen </td> <td>x ArmBrn </td> <td>x ArmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>19</td> <td style="background:#ff9d9d"><a href="/wiki/Potassium" title="Potassium">K</a> </td> <td>x KmHn </td> <td>x KmCn </td> <td>x KmNn </td> <td>x KmOn </td> <td>x KmFn </td> <td>x KmPn </td> <td>x KmSn </td> <td>x KmCln </td> <td>x KmSen </td> <td>x KmBrn </td> <td>x KmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>20</td> <td style="background:#ffdead"><a href="/wiki/Calcium" title="Calcium">Ca</a> </td> <td>x CamHn </td> <td>x CamCn </td> <td>x CamNn </td> <td>x CamOn </td> <td>x CamFn </td> <td>x CamPn </td> <td>x CamSn </td> <td>x CamCln </td> <td>x CamSen </td> <td>x CamBrn </td> <td>x CamIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>21</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Scandium" title="Scandium">Sc</a> </td> <td>x ScmHn </td> <td>x ScmCn </td> <td>x ScmNn </td> <td>x ScmOn </td> <td>x ScmFn </td> <td>x ScmPn </td> <td>x ScmSn </td> <td>x ScmCln </td> <td>x ScmSen </td> <td>x ScmBrn </td> <td>x ScmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>22</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Titanium" title="Titanium">Ti</a> </td> <td>x TimHn </td> <td>x TimCn </td> <td>x TimNn </td> <td>x TimOn </td> <td>x TimFn </td> <td>x TimPn </td> <td>x TimSn </td> <td>x TimCln </td> <td>x TimSen </td> <td>x TimBrn </td> <td>x TimIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>23</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Vanadium" title="Vanadium">V</a> </td> <td>x VmHn </td> <td>x VmCn </td> <td>x VmNn </td> <td>x VmOn </td> <td>x VmFn </td> <td>x VmPn </td> <td>x VmSn </td> <td>x VmCln </td> <td>x VmSen </td> <td>x VmBrn </td> <td>x VmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>24</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Chromium" title="Chromium">Cr</a> </td> <td>x CrmHn </td> <td>x CrmCn </td> <td>x CrmNn </td> <td>x CrmOn </td> <td>x CrmFn </td> <td>x CrmPn </td> <td>x CrmSn </td> <td>x CrmCln </td> <td>x CrmSen </td> <td>x CrmBrn </td> <td>x CrmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>25</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Manganese" title="Manganese">Mn</a> </td> <td>x MnmHn </td> <td>x MnmCn </td> <td>x MnmNn </td> <td>x MnmOn </td> <td>x MnmFn </td> <td>x MnmPn </td> <td>x MnmSn </td> <td>x MnmCln </td> <td>x MnmSen </td> <td>x MnmBrn </td> <td>x MnmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>26</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Iron" title="Iron">Fe</a> </td> <td>x FemHn </td> <td>x FemCn </td> <td>x FemNn </td> <td>x FemOn </td> <td>x FemFn </td> <td>x FemPn </td> <td>x FemSn </td> <td>x FemCln </td> <td>x FemSen </td> <td>x FemBrn </td> <td>x FemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>27</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Cobalt" title="Cobalt">Co</a> </td> <td>x ComHn </td> <td>x ComCn </td> <td>x ComNn </td> <td>x ComOn </td> <td>x ComFn </td> <td>x ComPn </td> <td>x ComSn </td> <td>x ComCln </td> <td>x ComSen </td> <td>x ComBrn </td> <td>x ComIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>28</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Nickel" title="Nickel">Ni</a> </td> <td>x NimHn </td> <td>x NimCn </td> <td>x NimNn </td> <td>x NimOn </td> <td>x NimFn </td> <td>x NimPn </td> <td>x NimSn </td> <td>x NimCln </td> <td>x NimSen </td> <td>x NimBrn </td> <td>x NimIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>29</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Copper" title="Copper">Cu</a> </td> <td>x CumHn </td> <td>x CumCn </td> <td>x CumNn </td> <td>x CumOn </td> <td>x CumFn </td> <td>x CumPn </td> <td>x CumSn </td> <td>x CumCln </td> <td>x CumSen </td> <td>x CumBrn </td> <td>x CumIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>30</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Zinc" title="Zinc">Zn</a> </td> <td>x ZnmHn </td> <td>x ZnmCn </td> <td>x ZnmNn </td> <td>x ZnmOn </td> <td>x ZnmFn </td> <td>x ZnmPn </td> <td>x ZnmSn </td> <td>x ZnmCln </td> <td>x ZnmSen </td> <td>x ZnmBrn </td> <td>x ZnmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>31</td> <td style="background:#cccccc"><a href="/wiki/Gallium" title="Gallium">Ga</a> </td> <td>x GamHn </td> <td>x GamCn </td> <td>x GamNn </td> <td>x GamOn </td> <td>x GamFn </td> <td>x GamPn </td> <td>x GamSn </td> <td>x GamCln </td> <td>x GamSen </td> <td>x GamBrn </td> <td>x GamIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>32</td> <td style="background:#cccc99"><a href="/wiki/Germanium" title="Germanium">Ge</a> </td> <td>x GemHn </td> <td>x GemCn </td> <td>x GemNn </td> <td>x GemOn </td> <td>x GemFn </td> <td>x GemPn </td> <td>x GemSn </td> <td>x GemCln </td> <td>x GemSen </td> <td>x GemBrn </td> <td>x GemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>33</td> <td style="background:#cccc99"><a href="/wiki/Arsenic" title="Arsenic">As</a> </td> <td>x AsmHn </td> <td>x AsmCn </td> <td>x AsmNn </td> <td>x AsmOn </td> <td>x AsmFn </td> <td>x AsmPn </td> <td>x AsmSn </td> <td>x AsmCln </td> <td>x AsmSen </td> <td>x AsmBrn </td> <td>x AsmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>34</td> <td style="background:#a1ffc3"><a href="/wiki/Selenium" title="Selenium">Se</a> </td> <td>x SemHn </td> <td>x SemCn </td> <td>x SemNn </td> <td>x SemOn </td> <td>x SemFn </td> <td>x SemPn </td> <td>x SemSn </td> <td>x SemCln </td> <td>x SemSen </td> <td>x SemBrn </td> <td>x SemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>35</td> <td style="background:#e7ff8f"><a href="/wiki/Bromine" title="Bromine">Br</a> </td> <td>x BrmHn </td> <td>x BrmCn </td> <td>x BrmNn </td> <td>x BrmOn </td> <td>c FBr </td> <td>x BrmPn </td> <td>x BrmSn </td> <td>c ClBr </td> <td>x BrmSen </td> <td>c Br2 </td> <td>c BrI </td></tr> <tr> <td>36</td> <td style="background:#c0ffff"><a href="/wiki/Krypton" title="Krypton">Kr</a> </td> <td>x KrmHn </td> <td>x KrmCn </td> <td>x KrmNn </td> <td>x KrmOn </td> <td>x KrmFn </td> <td>x KrmPn </td> <td>x KrmSn </td> <td>x KrmCln </td> <td>x KrmSen </td> <td>x KrmBrn </td> <td>x KrmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>37</td> <td style="background:#ff9d9d"><a href="/wiki/Rubidium" title="Rubidium">Rb</a> </td> <td>x RbmHn </td> <td>x RbmCn </td> <td>x RbmNn </td> <td>x RbmOn </td> <td>x RbmFn </td> <td>x RbmPn </td> <td>x RbmSn </td> <td>x RbmCln </td> <td>x RbmSen </td> <td>x RbmBrn </td> <td>x RbmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>38</td> <td style="background:#ffdead"><a href="/wiki/Strontium" title="Strontium">Sr</a> </td> <td>x SrmHn </td> <td>x SrmCn </td> <td>x SrmNn </td> <td>x SrmOn </td> <td>x SrmFn </td> <td>x SrmPn </td> <td>x SrmSn </td> <td>x SrmCln </td> <td>x SrmSen </td> <td>x SrmBrn </td> <td>x SrmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>39</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Yttrium" title="Yttrium">Y</a> </td> <td>x YmHn </td> <td>x YmCn </td> <td>x YmNn </td> <td>x YmOn </td> <td>x YmFn </td> <td>x YmPn </td> <td>x YmSn </td> <td>x YmCln </td> <td>x YmSen </td> <td>x YmBrn </td> <td>x YmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>40</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Zirconium" title="Zirconium">Zr</a> </td> <td>x ZrmHn </td> <td>x ZrmCn </td> <td>x ZrmNn </td> <td>x ZrmOn </td> <td>x ZrmFn </td> <td>x ZrmPn </td> <td>x ZrmSn </td> <td>x ZrmCln </td> <td>x ZrmSen </td> <td>x ZrmBrn </td> <td>x ZrmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>41</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Niobium" title="Niobium">Nb</a> </td> <td>x NbmHn </td> <td>x NbmCn </td> <td>x NbmNn </td> <td>x NbmOn </td> <td>x NbmFn </td> <td>x NbmPn </td> <td>x NbmSn </td> <td>x NbmCln </td> <td>x NbmSen </td> <td>x NbmBrn </td> <td>x NbmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>42</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Molybdenum" title="Molybdenum">Mo</a> </td> <td>x MomHn </td> <td>x MomCn </td> <td>x MomNn </td> <td>x MomOn </td> <td>x MomFn </td> <td>x MomPn </td> <td>x MomSn </td> <td>x MomCln </td> <td>x MomSen </td> <td>x MomBrn </td> <td>x MomIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>43</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Technetium" title="Technetium">Tc</a> </td> <td>x TcmHn </td> <td>x TcmCn </td> <td>x TcmNn </td> <td>x TcmOn </td> <td>x TcmFn </td> <td>x TcmPn </td> <td>x TcmSn </td> <td>x TcmCln </td> <td>x TcmSen </td> <td>x TcmBrn </td> <td>x TcmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>44</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Ruthenium" title="Ruthenium">Ru</a> </td> <td>x RumHn </td> <td>x RumCn </td> <td>x RumNn </td> <td>x RumOn </td> <td>x RumFn </td> <td>x RumPn </td> <td>x RumSn </td> <td>x RumCln </td> <td>x RumSen </td> <td>x RumBrn </td> <td>x RumIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>45</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Rhodium" title="Rhodium">Rh</a> </td> <td>x RhmHn </td> <td>x RhmCn </td> <td>x RhmNn </td> <td>x RhmOn </td> <td>x RhmFn </td> <td>x RhmPn </td> <td>x RhmSn </td> <td>x RhmCln </td> <td>x RhmSen </td> <td>x RhmBrn </td> <td>x RhmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>46</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Palladium" title="Palladium">Pd</a> </td> <td>x PdmHn </td> <td>x PdmCn </td> <td>x PdmNn </td> <td>x PdmOn </td> <td>x PdmFn </td> <td>x PdmPn </td> <td>x PdmSn </td> <td>x PdmCln </td> <td>x PdmSen </td> <td>x PdmBrn </td> <td>x PdmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>47</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Silver" title="Silver">Ag</a> </td> <td>x AgmHn </td> <td>x AgmCn </td> <td>x AgmNn </td> <td>x AgmOn </td> <td>x AgmFn </td> <td>x AgmPn </td> <td>x AgmSn </td> <td>x AgmCln </td> <td>x AgmSen </td> <td>x AgmBrn </td> <td>x AgmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>48</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Cadmium" title="Cadmium">Cd</a> </td> <td>x CdmHn </td> <td>x CdmCn </td> <td>x CdmNn </td> <td>x CdmOn </td> <td>x CdmFn </td> <td>x CdmPn </td> <td>x CdmSn </td> <td>x CdmCln </td> <td>x CdmSen </td> <td>x CdmBrn </td> <td>x CdmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>49</td> <td style="background:#cccccc"><a href="/wiki/Indium" title="Indium">In</a> </td> <td>x InmHn </td> <td>x InmCn </td> <td>x InmNn </td> <td>x InmOn </td> <td>x InmFn </td> <td>x InmPn </td> <td>x InmSn </td> <td>x InmCln </td> <td>x InmSen </td> <td>x InmBrn </td> <td>x InmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>50</td> <td style="background:#cccccc"><a href="/wiki/Tin" title="Tin">Sn</a> </td> <td>x SnmHn </td> <td>x SnmCn </td> <td>x SnmNn </td> <td>x SnmOn </td> <td>x SnmFn </td> <td>x SnmPn </td> <td>x SnmSn </td> <td>x SnmCln </td> <td>x SnmSen </td> <td>x SnmBrn </td> <td>x SnmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>51</td> <td style="background:#cccc99"><a href="/wiki/Antimony" title="Antimony">Sb</a> </td> <td>x SbmHn </td> <td>x SbmCn </td> <td>x SbmNn </td> <td>x SbmOn </td> <td>x SbmFn </td> <td>x SbmPn </td> <td>x SbmSn </td> <td>x SbmCln </td> <td>x SbmSen </td> <td>x SbmBrn </td> <td>x SbmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>52</td> <td style="background:#cccc99"><a href="/wiki/Tellurium" title="Tellurium">Te</a> </td> <td>x TemHn </td> <td>x TemCn </td> <td>x TemNn </td> <td>x TemOn </td> <td>x TemFn </td> <td>x TemPn </td> <td>x TemSn </td> <td>x TemCln </td> <td>x TemSen </td> <td>x TemBrn </td> <td>x TemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>53</td> <td style="background:#e7ff8f"><a href="/wiki/Iodine" title="Iodine">I</a> </td> <td>x ImHn </td> <td>x ImCn </td> <td>x ImNn </td> <td>x ImOn </td> <td>c FI </td> <td>x ImPn </td> <td>x ImSn </td> <td>c ClI </td> <td>x ImSen </td> <td>c BrI </td> <td>c I2 </td></tr> <tr> <td>54</td> <td style="background:#c0ffff"><a href="/wiki/Xenon" title="Xenon">Xe</a> </td> <td>x XemHn </td> <td>x XemCn </td> <td>x XemNn </td> <td>x XemOn </td> <td>x XemFn </td> <td>x XemPn </td> <td>x XemSn </td> <td>x XemCln </td> <td>x XemSen </td> <td>x XemBrn </td> <td>x XemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>55</td> <td style="background:#ff9d9d"><a href="/wiki/Caesium" title="Caesium">Cs</a> </td> <td>x CsmHn </td> <td>x CsmCn </td> <td>x CsmNn </td> <td>x CsmOn </td> <td>x CsmFn </td> <td>x CsmPn </td> <td>x CsmSn </td> <td>x CsmCln </td> <td>x CsmSen </td> <td>x CsmBrn </td> <td>x CsmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>56</td> <td style="background:#ffdead"><a href="/wiki/Barium" title="Barium">Ba</a> </td> <td>x BamHn </td> <td>x BamCn </td> <td>x BamNn </td> <td>x BamOn </td> <td>x BamFn </td> <td>x BamPn </td> <td>x BamSn </td> <td>x BamCln </td> <td>x BamSen </td> <td>x BamBrn </td> <td>x BamIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>57</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Lanthanum" title="Lanthanum">La</a> </td> <td>x LamHn </td> <td>x LamCn </td> <td>x LamNn </td> <td>x LamOn </td> <td>x LamFn </td> <td>x LamPn </td> <td>x LamSn </td> <td>x LamCln </td> <td>x LamSen </td> <td>x LamBrn </td> <td>x LamIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>58</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Cerium" title="Cerium">Ce</a> </td> <td>x CemHn </td> <td>x CemCn </td> <td>x CemNn </td> <td>x CemOn </td> <td>x CemFn </td> <td>x CemPn </td> <td>x CemSn </td> <td>x CemCln </td> <td>x CemSen </td> <td>x CemBrn </td> <td>x CemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>59</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Praseodymium" title="Praseodymium">Pr</a> </td> <td>x PrmHn </td> <td>x PrmCn </td> <td>x PrmNn </td> <td>x PrmOn </td> <td>x PrmFn </td> <td>x PrmPn </td> <td>x PrmSn </td> <td>x PrmCln </td> <td>x PrmSen </td> <td>x PrmBrn </td> <td>x PrmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>60</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Neodymium" title="Neodymium">Nd</a> </td> <td>x NdmHn </td> <td>x NdmCn </td> <td>x NdmNn </td> <td>x NdmOn </td> <td>x NdmFn </td> <td>x NdmPn </td> <td>x NdmSn </td> <td>x NdmCln </td> <td>x NdmSen </td> <td>x NdmBrn </td> <td>x NdmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>61</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Promethium" title="Promethium">Pm</a> </td> <td>x PmmHn </td> <td>x PmmCn </td> <td>x PmmNn </td> <td>x PmmOn </td> <td>x PmmFn </td> <td>x PmmPn </td> <td>x PmmSn </td> <td>x PmmCln </td> <td>x PmmSen </td> <td>x PmmBrn </td> <td>x PmmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>62</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Samarium" title="Samarium">Sm</a> </td> <td>x SmmHn </td> <td>x SmmCn </td> <td>x SmmNn </td> <td>x SmmOn </td> <td>x SmmFn </td> <td>x SmmPn </td> <td>x SmmSn </td> <td>x SmmCln </td> <td>x SmmSen </td> <td>x SmmBrn </td> <td>x SmmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>63</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Europium" title="Europium">Eu</a> </td> <td>x EumHn </td> <td>x EumCn </td> <td>x EumNn </td> <td>x EumOn </td> <td>x EumFn </td> <td>x EumPn </td> <td>x EumSn </td> <td>x EumCln </td> <td>x EumSen </td> <td>x EumBrn </td> <td>x EumIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>64</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Gadolinium" title="Gadolinium">Gd</a> </td> <td>x GdmHn </td> <td>x GdmCn </td> <td>x GdmNn </td> <td>x GdmOn </td> <td>x GdmFn </td> <td>x GdmPn </td> <td>x GdmSn </td> <td>x GdmCln </td> <td>x GdmSen </td> <td>x GdmBrn </td> <td>x GdmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>65</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Terbium" title="Terbium">Tb</a> </td> <td>x TbmHn </td> <td>x TbmCn </td> <td>x TbmNn </td> <td>x TbmOn </td> <td>x TbmFn </td> <td>x TbmPn </td> <td>x TbmSn </td> <td>x TbmCln </td> <td>x TbmSen </td> <td>x TbmBrn </td> <td>x TbmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>66</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Dysprosium" title="Dysprosium">Dy</a> </td> <td>x DymHn </td> <td>x DymCn </td> <td>x DymNn </td> <td>x DymOn </td> <td>x DymFn </td> <td>x DymPn </td> <td>x DymSn </td> <td>x DymCln </td> <td>x DymSen </td> <td>x DymBrn </td> <td>x DymIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>67</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Holmium" title="Holmium">Ho</a> </td> <td>x HomHn </td> <td>x HomCn </td> <td>x HomNn </td> <td>x HomOn </td> <td>x HomFn </td> <td>x HomPn </td> <td>x HomSn </td> <td>x HomCln </td> <td>x HomSen </td> <td>x HomBrn </td> <td>x HomIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>68</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Erbium" title="Erbium">Er</a> </td> <td>x ErmHn </td> <td>x ErmCn </td> <td>x ErmNn </td> <td>x ErmOn </td> <td>x ErmFn </td> <td>x ErmPn </td> <td>x ErmSn </td> <td>x ErmCln </td> <td>x ErmSen </td> <td>x ErmBrn </td> <td>x ErmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>69</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Thulium" title="Thulium">Tm</a> </td> <td>x TmmHn </td> <td>x TmmCn </td> <td>x TmmNn </td> <td>x TmmOn </td> <td>x TmmFn </td> <td>x TmmPn </td> <td>x TmmSn </td> <td>x TmmCln </td> <td>x TmmSen </td> <td>x TmmBrn </td> <td>x TmmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>70</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Ytterbium" title="Ytterbium">Yb</a> </td> <td>x YbmHn </td> <td>x YbmCn </td> <td>x YbmNn </td> <td>x YbmOn </td> <td>x YbmFn </td> <td>x YbmPn </td> <td>x YbmSn </td> <td>x YbmCln </td> <td>x YbmSen </td> <td>x YbmBrn </td> <td>x YbmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>71</td> <td style="background:#ffbfff"><a href="/wiki/Lutetium" title="Lutetium">Lu</a> </td> <td>x LumHn </td> <td>x LumCn </td> <td>x LumNn </td> <td>x LumOn </td> <td>x LumFn </td> <td>x LumPn </td> <td>x LumSn </td> <td>x LumCln </td> <td>x LumSen </td> <td>x LumBrn </td> <td>x LumIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>72</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Hafnium" title="Hafnium">Hf</a> </td> <td>x HfmHn </td> <td>x HfmCn </td> <td>x HfmNn </td> <td>x HfmOn </td> <td>x HfmFn </td> <td>x HfmPn </td> <td>x HfmSn </td> <td>x HfmCln </td> <td>x HfmSen </td> <td>x HfmBrn </td> <td>x HfmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>73</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Tantalum" title="Tantalum">Ta</a> </td> <td>x TamHn </td> <td>x TamCn </td> <td>x TamNn </td> <td>x TamOn </td> <td>x TamFn </td> <td>x TamPn </td> <td>x TamSn </td> <td>x TamCln </td> <td>x TamSen </td> <td>x TamBrn </td> <td>x TamIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>74</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Tungsten" title="Tungsten">W</a> </td> <td>x WmHn </td> <td>x WmCn </td> <td>x WmNn </td> <td>x WmOn </td> <td>x WmFn </td> <td>x WmPn </td> <td>x WmSn </td> <td>x WmCln </td> <td>x WmSen </td> <td>x WmBrn </td> <td>x WmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>75</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Rhenium" title="Rhenium">Re</a> </td> <td>x RemHn </td> <td>x RemCn </td> <td>x RemNn </td> <td>x RemOn </td> <td>x RemFn </td> <td>x RemPn </td> <td>x RemSn </td> <td>x RemCln </td> <td>x RemSen </td> <td>x RemBrn </td> <td>x RemIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>76</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Osmium" title="Osmium">Os</a> </td> <td>x OsmHn </td> <td>x OsmCn </td> <td>x OsmNn </td> <td>x OsmOn </td> <td>x OsmFn </td> <td>x OsmPn </td> <td>x OsmSn </td> <td>x OsmCln </td> <td>x OsmSen </td> <td>x OsmBrn </td> <td>x OsmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>77</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Iridium" title="Iridium">Ir</a> </td> <td>x IrmHn </td> <td>x IrmCn </td> <td>x IrmNn </td> <td>x IrmOn </td> <td>x IrmFn </td> <td>x IrmPn </td> <td>x IrmSn </td> <td>x IrmCln </td> <td>x IrmSen </td> <td>x IrmBrn </td> <td>x IrmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>78</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Platinum" title="Platinum">Pt</a> </td> <td>x PtmHn </td> <td>x PtmCn </td> <td>x PtmNn </td> <td>x PtmOn </td> <td>x PtmFn </td> <td>x PtmPn </td> <td>x PtmSn </td> <td>x PtmCln </td> <td>x PtmSen </td> <td>x PtmBrn </td> <td>x PtmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>79</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Gold" title="Gold">Au</a> </td> <td>x AumHn </td> <td>x AumCn </td> <td>x AumNn </td> <td>x AumOn </td> <td>x AumFn </td> <td>x AumPn </td> <td>x AumSn </td> <td>x AumCln </td> <td>x AumSen </td> <td>x AumBrn </td> <td>x AumIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>80</td> <td style="background:#ffc0c0"><a href="/wiki/Mercury_(element)" title="Mercury (element)">Hg</a> </td> <td>x HgmHn </td> <td>x HgmCn </td> <td>x HgmNn </td> <td>x HgmOn </td> <td>x HgmFn </td> <td>x HgmPn </td> <td>x HgmSn </td> <td>x HgmCln </td> <td>x HgmSen </td> <td>x HgmBrn </td> <td>x HgmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>81</td> <td style="background:#cccccc"><a href="/wiki/Thallium" title="Thallium">Tl</a> </td> <td>x TlmHn </td> <td>x TlmCn </td> <td>x TlmNn </td> <td>x TlmOn </td> <td>x TlmFn </td> <td>x TlmPn </td> <td>x TlmSn </td> <td>x TlmCln </td> <td>x TlmSen </td> <td>x TlmBrn </td> <td>x TlmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>82</td> <td style="background:#cccccc"><a href="/wiki/Lead" title="Lead">Pb</a> </td> <td>x PbmHn </td> <td>x PbmCn </td> <td>x PbmNn </td> <td>x PbmOn </td> <td>x PbmFn </td> <td>x PbmPn </td> <td>x PbmSn </td> <td>x PbmCln </td> <td>x PbmSen </td> <td>x PbmBrn </td> <td>x PbmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>83</td> <td style="background:#cccccc"><a href="/wiki/Bismuth" title="Bismuth">Bi</a> </td> <td>x BimHn </td> <td>x BimCn </td> <td>x BimNn </td> <td>x BimOn </td> <td>x BimFn </td> <td>x BimPn </td> <td>x BimSn </td> <td>x BimCln </td> <td>x BimSen </td> <td>x BimBrn </td> <td>x BimIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>84</td> <td style="background:#cccccc"><a href="/wiki/Polonium" title="Polonium">Po</a> </td> <td>x PomHn </td> <td>x PomCn </td> <td>x PomNn </td> <td>x PomOn </td> <td>x PomFn </td> <td>x PomPn </td> <td>x PomSn </td> <td>x PomCln </td> <td>x PomSen </td> <td>x PomBrn </td> <td>x PomIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>85</td> <td style="background:#cccc99"><a href="/wiki/Astatine" title="Astatine">At</a> </td> <td>x AtmHn </td> <td>x AtmCn </td> <td>x AtmNn </td> <td>x AtmOn </td> <td>x AtmFn </td> <td>x AtmPn </td> <td>x AtmSn </td> <td>x AtmCln </td> <td>x AtmSen </td> <td>x AtmBrn </td> <td>x AtmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>86</td> <td style="background:#c0ffff"><a href="/wiki/Radon" title="Radon">Rn</a> </td> <td>x RnmHn </td> <td>x RnmCn </td> <td>x RnmNn </td> <td>x RnmOn </td> <td>x RnmFn </td> <td>x RnmPn </td> <td>x RnmSn </td> <td>x RnmCln </td> <td>x RnmSen </td> <td>x RnmBrn </td> <td>x RnmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>87</td> <td style="background:#ff9d9d"><a href="/wiki/Francium" title="Francium">Fr</a> </td> <td>x FrmHn </td> <td>x FrmCn </td> <td>x FrmNn </td> <td>x FrmOn </td> <td>x FrmFn </td> <td>x FrmPn </td> <td>x FrmSn </td> <td>x FrmCln </td> <td>x FrmSen </td> <td>x FrmBrn </td> <td>x FrmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>88</td> <td style="background:#ffdead"><a href="/wiki/Radium" title="Radium">Ra</a> </td> <td>x RamHn </td> <td>x RamCn </td> <td>x RamNn </td> <td>x RamOn </td> <td>x RamFn </td> <td>x RamPn </td> <td>x RamSn </td> <td>x RamCln </td> <td>x RamSen </td> <td>x RamBrn </td> <td>x RamIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>89</td> <td style="background:#ff99cc"><a href="/wiki/Actinium" title="Actinium">Ac</a> </td> <td>x AcmHn </td> <td>x AcmCn </td> <td>x AcmNn </td> <td>x AcmOn </td> <td>x AcmFn </td> <td>x AcmPn </td> <td>x AcmSn </td> <td>x AcmCln </td> <td>x AcmSen </td> <td>x AcmBrn </td> <td>x AcmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>90</td> <td style="background:#ff99cc"><a href="/wiki/Thorium" title="Thorium">Th</a> </td> <td>x ThmHn </td> <td>x ThmCn </td> <td>x ThmNn </td> <td>x ThmOn </td> <td>x ThmFn </td> <td>x ThmPn </td> <td>x ThmSn </td> <td>x ThmCln </td> <td>x ThmSen </td> <td>x ThmBrn </td> <td>x ThmIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>91</td> <td style="background:#ff99cc"><a href="/wiki/Protactinium" title="Protactinium">Pa</a> </td> <td>x PamHn </td> <td>x PamCn </td> <td>x PamNn </td> <td>x PamOn </td> <td>x PamFn </td> <td>x PamPn </td> <td>x PamSn </td> <td>x PamCln </td> <td>x PamSen </td> <td>x PamBrn </td> <td>x PamIn </td></tr> <tr> <td>92</td> <td style="background:#ff99cc"><a href="/wiki/Uranium" title="Uranium">U</a> </td> <td>x UmHn </td> <td>x UmCn </td> <td>x UmNn </td> <td>x UmOn </td> <td>x UmFn </td> <td>x UmPn </td> <td>x UmSn </td> <td>x UmCln </td> <td>x UmSen </td> <td>x UmBrn </td> <td>x UmIn </td></tr></tbody></table> Key: <dl><dd>c Covalent</dd> <dd>d Depends</dd> <dd>i Ionic</dd> <dd>x Not yet marked</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Halides_and_iodides" data-mw-thread-id="h-Halides_and_iodides-The_92×11_table-2017-07-19T06:53:00.000Z">Halides and iodides</h3></div> I had a look at Wiberg's Inorganic chemistry (2001) as I was curious to learn more about the ionic v covalent nature of the metallic iodides. So I tallied the number of simple stable binary metal halides they mentioned and this number got to 539. Of these 539 halides, 117 were iodides. I then read the accompanying text to see what it had to say about the nature of these iodides. Sometimes the text was clear; at other times it was less clear so I relied mainly on structure type. My count for the number of ionic halides got to 69, which is 59% of the sample size. Bear in mind that these are preliminary figures. I may have a look at the sulfides next as sulfur may be the next most nonmetallic element in this sense. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandbh" title="User:Sandbh">Sandbh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sandbh" title="User talk:Sandbh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-Sandbh-2017-07-19T06:53:00.000Z-Halides_and_iodides" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:53, 19 July 2017 (UTC)</a> <dl><dd>It seems my 92x11 idea was way too simple, in being based on the idea of a single compound for each combination. Sigh. <a href="/wiki/User:YBG" title="User:YBG">YBG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:YBG#top" title="User talk:YBG">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:YBG/Archive_3#c-YBG-2017-07-19T07:00:00.000Z-Sandbh-2017-07-19T06:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:00, 19 July 2017 (UTC)</a></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:YBG/Archive_3&oldid=1249369449">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:YBG/Archive_3&oldid=1249369449</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 4 October 2024, at 15:27 (UTC).</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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