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.class-unassessed{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .conflict{border:0.2em solid red}.mw-parser-output .inactive-wikiproject .wpb-header-bubbles{color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span class="skin-invert" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Document_(89020)_-_The_Noun_Project.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg/25px-Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg/38px-Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg/50px-Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Infoboxes" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Infoboxes">Infoboxes</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span class="skin-invert" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Document_(89020)_-_The_Noun_Project.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg/80px-Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="80" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg/120px-Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg/160px-Document_%2889020%29_-_The_Noun_Project.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This template is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Infoboxes" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Infoboxes">WikiProject Infoboxes</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Infoboxes" class="mw-redirect" title="Infoboxes">Infoboxes</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Infoboxes" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Infoboxes">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Infoboxes</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Infoboxes</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Infoboxes</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Infoboxes articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Operalogo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/28px-Operalogo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/42px-Operalogo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/56px-Operalogo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera">Opera</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Operalogo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/90px-Operalogo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="90" height="81" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/135px-Operalogo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/180px-Operalogo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259569809">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Operalogo.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/31px-Operalogo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="31" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/47px-Operalogo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Operalogo.svg/62px-Operalogo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Opera" title="Portal:Opera">Opera portal</a></span></li></ul>This template falls within the scope of <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Opera" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera">WikiProject Opera</a></b></i>, a group writing and editing Wikipedia articles on operas, opera terminology, opera composers and librettists, singers, designers, directors and managers, companies and houses, publications and recordings. The project <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Opera" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Opera">discussion page</a></b> is a place to talk about issues and exchange ideas. <i>New members are welcome!</i><span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Opera</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Opera</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Opera articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"> </p> <table id="archivebox" role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice mbox-small" style="text-align: center; padding: 1em;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="padding:0.6em 0 0.25em;"> <div style="width:100%; overflow:hidden;"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/40px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/60px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2a/Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg/80px-Replacement_filing_cabinet.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="200" data-file-height="200"/></a></span><br/><b>Archives</b></div> </td></tr><tr> <td class="plainlinks"> <table style="width: 100%; padding: 0px; text-align: center; background-color: transparent;"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera/Archive_1" title="Template talk:Infobox opera/Archive 1">Archive 1</a></td></tr></tbody></table> </td> </tr><tr><td style="padding-bottom:11px"><div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-inputbox-input mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="22" dir="ltr"/></div><input type="hidden" value="Template talk:Infobox opera/" name="prefix"/><br/><input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"/><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"/></form></div> </td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0px 10px; font-size:11.9px;"> <hr/> This page has archives. Sections older than <b>90 days</b> may be automatically archived by <span class="nowraplinks"><a href="/wiki/User:Lowercase_sigmabot_III" title="User:Lowercase sigmabot III">Lowercase sigmabot III</a></span> when more than 4 sections are present.</td></tr> </tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Dates" data-mw-thread-id="h-Dates-2020-10-13T13:45:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Dates-2020-10-13T13:45:00.000Z"></span>Dates<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Dates-2020-10-13T13:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Infobox_opera&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Dates"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pigsonthewing-2020-10-13T13:45:00.000Z-Dates"></span>For operas with no known performances (such as those by <a href="/wiki/Henrique_Oswald" title="Henrique Oswald">Henrique Oswald</a>) or where the premiere was a long time after their composition, this template needs a <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|composition date=</code> parameter. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Pigsonthewing-2020-10-13T13:45:00.000Z-Dates" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:45, 13 October 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pigsonthewing-2020-10-13T13:45:00.000Z-Dates"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pigsonthewing-2020-10-13T13:45:00.000Z-Dates"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""based_on"_parameter" data-mw-thread-id="h-"based_on"_parameter-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z"><span id=".22based_on.22_parameter"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"based_on"_parameter-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z"></span>"based on" parameter<span data-mw-comment-end="h-"based_on"_parameter-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Infobox_opera&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: "based on" parameter"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z-"based_on"_parameter"></span>Under the entry for <code class="tpl-para" style="word-break:break-word;">|based_on=</code>, I changed <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">"Use this to list the literary work on which the libretto was based (if any)"</q> to <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"Use this to <i>state</i> the literary work <i>or other subject</i> on which..."</q> (emphasis added for clarity), to reflect actual usage. </p><p>I reiterate: template documentation should reflect actual usage, not attempt to proscribe a usage for which actual practice demonstrates consensus. </p><p>I was reverted, with the edit summary "restore". My change should be re-implemented, for the reason given. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z-"based_on"_parameter" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:16, 12 May 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z-"based_on"_parameter"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z-"based_on"_parameter"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z"></span>In the vast majority of cases the parameter is actually used as described. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T12:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_Bednarek-2021-05-12T12:58:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"></span>... because Nikkimaria busies herself with removing it. I support Andy Mabbett's phrasing because an infobox should contain the salient details of a work. If a work is based on the life of a pharaoh, it is helpful to mention that in the infobox. I know that this is almost always mentioned in the article's 1st paragraph, but so is everything else in the infobox, and that doesn't invalidate the concept of info boxes. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Bednarek" title="User:Michael Bednarek">Michael Bednarek</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Bednarek" title="User talk:Michael Bednarek">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Michael_Bednarek-2021-05-12T12:58:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:58, 12 May 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_Bednarek-2021-05-12T12:58:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_Bednarek-2021-05-12T12:58:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gerda_Arendt-2021-05-12T12:49:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"></span>I support the rules to follow frequent usage, as Andy did. The basis for operas is often literary, but also often not, and should still be given. - Even <i>the minority</i> means many cased, many cases in which the information may be useful to readers. (Actually, whatever the documentation says, I don't understand the removal of information that may be helpful to readers.) --<a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">Gerda Arendt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gerda_Arendt" title="User talk:Gerda Arendt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Gerda_Arendt-2021-05-12T12:49:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:49, 12 May 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gerda_Arendt-2021-05-12T12:49:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gerda_Arendt-2021-05-12T12:49:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nikkimaria-2021-05-13T00:19:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2021-05-12T12:49:00.000Z"></span>I would not agree that it is "many cases"; it doesn't seem to be common, and the change poorly defines what "it" should be Not to mention that the proposal makes little sense in the context of the rest of the documentation for this parameter. <a href="/wiki/User:Nikkimaria" title="User:Nikkimaria">Nikkimaria</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nikkimaria" title="User talk:Nikkimaria">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Nikkimaria-2021-05-13T00:19:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2021-05-12T12:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:19, 13 May 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nikkimaria-2021-05-13T00:19:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2021-05-12T12:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nikkimaria-2021-05-13T00:19:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2021-05-12T12:49:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T16:07:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"></span>And there is a significant minority that use it as I described. The documentation should describe common usage, not merely majority usage. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T16:07:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T16:07:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T16:07:00.000Z-Nikkimaria-2021-05-12T12:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_Bednarek-2021-05-13T06:50:00.000Z-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T16:07:00.000Z"></span>There are currently not many cases because Nikkimaria removed them. Anticipating the rejoinder, "but that was done to comply with the documentation as stated": the current discussion here is exactly about that unnecessarily narrow wording which makes no sense and is against the purpose of an infobox, to "summarizes key features of the page's subject." -- <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Bednarek" title="User:Michael Bednarek">Michael Bednarek</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Bednarek" title="User talk:Michael Bednarek">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Michael_Bednarek-2021-05-13T06:50:00.000Z-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T16:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:50, 13 May 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_Bednarek-2021-05-13T06:50:00.000Z-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T16:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_Bednarek-2021-05-13T06:50:00.000Z-Pigsonthewing-2021-05-12T16:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-06-26T16:34:00.000Z-"based_on"_parameter"></span>In the light of the above discussion, I've restored my wording. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn"><a href="/wiki/User:Pigsonthewing" title="User:Pigsonthewing">Andy Mabbett</a></span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pigsonthewing" title="User talk:Pigsonthewing">Talk to Andy</a>; <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing" title="Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing">Andy's edits</a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Pigsonthewing-2021-06-26T16:34:00.000Z-"based_on"_parameter" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 26 June 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-06-26T16:34:00.000Z-"based_on"_parameter"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pigsonthewing-2021-06-26T16:34:00.000Z-"based_on"_parameter"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Order_in_category_for_unknown_parameters" data-mw-thread-id="h-Order_in_category_for_unknown_parameters-20230126042800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Order_in_category_for_unknown_parameters-20230126042800"></span>Order in category for unknown parameters<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Order_in_category_for_unknown_parameters-20230126042800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Infobox_opera&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Order in category for unknown parameters"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Zackmann08" title="User:Zackmann08"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20230126042800-Order_in_category_for_unknown_parameters"></span>User:Zackmann08</a> recently added a check for unknown parameters. Thank you. This populated the <a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_using_infobox_opera_with_unknown_parameters" title="Category:Pages using infobox opera with unknown parameters">Category:Pages using infobox opera with unknown parameters</a>, but I'm baffled by the order of entries in that category. It's a minor nit pick and doesn't need to be fixed – it just seems inexplicable. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Bednarek" title="User:Michael Bednarek">Michael Bednarek</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Bednarek" title="User talk:Michael Bednarek">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Michael_Bednarek-20230126042800-Order_in_category_for_unknown_parameters" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:28, 26 January 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20230126042800-Order_in_category_for_unknown_parameters"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_Bednarek-20230126042800-Order_in_category_for_unknown_parameters"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Competent_parameters" data-mw-thread-id="h-Competent_parameters-20241126183200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Competent_parameters-20241126183200"></span>Competent parameters<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Competent_parameters-20241126183200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Infobox_opera&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Competent parameters"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trumpetrep-20241126183200-Competent_parameters"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table id="editsemiprotected" class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="template"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1b/Semi-protection-shackle.svg/60px-Semi-protection-shackle.svg.png" decoding="async" width="60" height="60" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1b/Semi-protection-shackle.svg/90px-Semi-protection-shackle.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1b/Semi-protection-shackle.svg/120px-Semi-protection-shackle.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><b>It is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">requested</a> that an edit be made to the <a href="/wiki/Help:Protection" title="Help:Protection">semi-protected</a> template at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera&redirect=no">Template:Infobox opera</a>.</b><br/><span class="plainlinks" style="font-size: smaller;">(<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera&action=edit">edit</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera&action=history">history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera&diff=cur&oldid=prev">last</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Infobox_opera" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Infobox opera">links</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera/sandbox&redirect=no">sandbox</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera/sandbox&action=edit">edit sandbox</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera/sandbox&action=history">sandbox history</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera/sandbox&diff=cur&oldid=prev">sandbox last edit</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ComparePages&page1=Template%3AInfobox+opera&page2=Template%3AInfobox+opera%2Fsandbox">sandbox diff</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera/testcases&redirect=no">test cases</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="//templatecount.toolforge.org/index.php?name=Infobox+opera&lang=en&namespace=10#bottom">transclusion count</a> <b>·</b> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Template%3AInfobox+opera&type=protect">protection log</a>)</span> <p>This template must be followed by a <b>complete and specific description</b> of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change <i>X</i>" is <b>not acceptable</b> and will be rejected; the request <b>must</b> be of the form "please change <i>X</i> to <i>Y</i>". </p> <p style="font-size:smaller; line-height:1.3em;"> The edit may be made by any <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:User_access_levels#Autoconfirmed" title="Wikipedia:User access levels">autoconfirmed</a> user. Remember to change the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=<i>no</i></code> parameter to "<b>yes</b>" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:ESp" title="Template:ESp">ESp</a>}} template in the response. Consider making changes first to the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera/sandbox&redirect=no">template's sandbox</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Infobox_opera/testcases&redirect=no">test them thoroughly here</a> before submitting an edit request. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection" title="Wikipedia:Requests for page protection">protection request</a>. </p><span class="plainlinks" style="display:none"><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="urn:x-wp-editsemiprotected:Template:Infobox_opera"><span></span></a></span></td></tr></tbody></table> <p>The following parameters need to be added to the opera infobox: </p> <ul><li>Catalogue</li> <li>Opus</li> <li>Composed</li> <li>Published</li> <li>Characters</li> <li>Structure</li> <li>Characters</li> <li>Scoring</li> <li>Client</li> <li>Preceded by</li> <li>Followed by</li> <li>Premiere director</li> <li>Premiere conductor</li> <li>Premiere Performers</li> <li>First recording</li></ul> <p>See the Play & musical composition infoboxes for reference. <a href="/wiki/User:Trumpetrep" title="User:Trumpetrep">Trumpetrep</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trumpetrep" title="User talk:Trumpetrep">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Trumpetrep-20241126183200-Competent_parameters" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trumpetrep-20241126183200-Competent_parameters"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trumpetrep-20241126183200-Competent_parameters"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241127011700-Trumpetrep-20241126183200"></span>Objections: <ol><li>'Characters' leads to infobox bloat (and why is it listed twice?).</li> <li>What could be an entry for 'Structure'?</li> <li>'Scoring' doesn't make sense.</li> <li>What does 'Client' mean?</li> <li>'Preceded/Followed' is infobox bloat; there's normally a navigation box.</li> <li>'Premiere director' applies to very few operas.</li> <li>'Premiere performers' leads to infobox bloat.</li></ol></dd> <dd>What does the section heading '<em>Competent</em> parameters' mean? -- <a href="/wiki/User:Michael_Bednarek" title="User:Michael Bednarek">Michael Bednarek</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Michael_Bednarek" title="User talk:Michael Bednarek">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_opera#c-Michael_Bednarek-20241127011700-Trumpetrep-20241126183200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:17, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241127011700-Trumpetrep-20241126183200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Michael_Bednarek-20241127011700-Trumpetrep-20241126183200"></span></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Infobox_opera&oldid=1259786336">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Infobox_opera&oldid=1259786336</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_Opera_articles" title="Category:Template-Class Opera articles">Template-Class Opera articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Opera_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Opera articles">WikiProject Opera articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_semi-protected_edit_requests" title="Category:Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests">Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 27 November 2024, at 01:17<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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