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href="#There's_really_only_one_way_out"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>There's really only one way out</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-There's_really_only_one_way_out-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Good_essay" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Good_essay"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Good essay</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Good_essay-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ACPD" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ACPD"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>ACPD</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-ACPD-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Echoes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Echoes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Echoes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Echoes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Hebrew Wikipedia's system</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Slippery_slope" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Slippery_slope"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Slippery slope</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Slippery_slope-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Suggestion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Suggestion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Suggestion</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Suggestion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Rename" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Rename"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> 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</div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body" aria-labelledby="firstHeading" data-mw-ve-target-container> <div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">< <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired" title="User talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired">User talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="SPQW" data-mw-thread-id="h-SPQW-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-SPQW-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z"></span><a href="/wiki/SPQR" title="SPQR">SPQW</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-SPQW-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: SPQW"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Bigtimepeace-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z-SPQW"></span>This is interesting, though I have a different take on the matter that I'll post here later, if you don't mind, when I get a chance. One thing struck me, and made me smile, as I skimmed through this though. Slapping up a photo of the US Senate as an example of "what we need more of" will probably make a lot of folks, regardless of homeland or political persuasion, chuckle. The American Senate is a rather dysfunctional (not to much undemocratic—both in terms of its functioning and the manner in which its members end up there, despite protestations to the contrary in high school civics classes) institution. I'd argue that it's hardly a model for good governance. Probably you didn't intend it that way but, you know, just sayin'. :-) </p><p>I'd propose an alternative photo of a smooth-functioning, highly democratic institution that could serve as a model for good governance here on Wikipedia, however I cannot think of any such body offhand. Anyhow I'll try to follow up with some more serious thoughts here later since I'd like to engage with the argument you are making. --<a href="/wiki/User:Bigtimepeace" title="User:Bigtimepeace">Bigtimepeace</a> <small>| <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bigtimepeace" title="User talk:Bigtimepeace">talk</a> | <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bigtimepeace" title="Special:Contributions/Bigtimepeace">contribs</a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Bigtimepeace-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z-SPQW" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:35, 13 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Bigtimepeace-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z-SPQW"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Bigtimepeace-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z-SPQW"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nathan-2009-07-15T15:53:00.000Z-Bigtimepeace-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z"></span>Technically, the image is of the Capitol building and not the Senate specifically. While the United States Congress may not be the Platonic ideal of democratic governance, it does manage to govern a superpower and spend trillions of dollars a year without melting the planet. I'm pretty sure that if the US tried to implement Wikipedia-style management, Earth would be dribbling goo in short order. <a href="/wiki/User:Nathan" title="User:Nathan"><strong style="color:#0033CC">Nathan</strong></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nathan" title="User talk:Nathan"><sup><strong style="color:#0033CC"> T </strong></sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Nathan-2009-07-15T15:53:00.000Z-Bigtimepeace-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:53, 15 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nathan-2009-07-15T15:53:00.000Z-Bigtimepeace-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nathan-2009-07-15T15:53:00.000Z-Bigtimepeace-2009-07-13T17:35:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="There's_really_only_one_way_out" data-mw-thread-id="h-There's_really_only_one_way_out-2009-07-15T01:02:00.000Z"><span id="There.27s_really_only_one_way_out"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-There's_really_only_one_way_out-2009-07-15T01:02:00.000Z"></span>There's really only one way out<span data-mw-comment-end="h-There's_really_only_one_way_out-2009-07-15T01:02:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: There's really only one way out"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Robster2001-2009-07-15T01:02:00.000Z-There's_really_only_one_way_out"></span>I wrote this on my user page the other day, and I think it fits here: <i>Because there is no community, and because the consensus model of site administration is irreparably broken, either the Foundation will take control of en.wikipedia by the end of 2010, or will direct the Arbitration Committee to do so.</i> I expect the Foundation's hand will most likely be forced by <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:LEGAL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:LEGAL">those two words I'm not allowed to say because one can get banned for it</a> or a public-relations disaster several orders of magnitude larger than <i>Siegenthaler</i>. </p><p>(EDIT: would have helped had I signed this originally, right?) - <a href="/wiki/User:Robster2001" title="User:Robster2001">Robster2001</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robster2001" title="User talk:Robster2001">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Robster2001-2009-07-15T01:02:00.000Z-There's_really_only_one_way_out" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:02, 15 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Robster2001-2009-07-15T01:02:00.000Z-There's_really_only_one_way_out"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Robster2001-2009-07-15T01:02:00.000Z-There's_really_only_one_way_out"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Good_essay" data-mw-thread-id="h-Good_essay-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Good_essay-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"></span>Good essay<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Good_essay-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Good essay"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z-Good_essay"></span>Good essay. I think you've nailed it. Your ideas about elected policy and content committees are right on. <a href="/wiki/User:Cla68" title="User:Cla68">Cla68</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cla68" title="User talk:Cla68">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z-Good_essay" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:07, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z-Good_essay"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z-Good_essay"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-R.D.H._(Ghost_In_The_Machine)-2009-07-14T11:12:00.000Z-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"></span>I second that Cla68! This is one of the best essays on Wiki-governance I have ever read! Cheers Root, and rooting Cheers!--<a href="/wiki/User:R.D.H._(Ghost_In_The_Machine)" title="User:R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine)">R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:R.D.H._(Ghost_In_The_Machine)" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-R.D.H._(Ghost_In_The_Machine)-2009-07-14T11:12:00.000Z-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:12, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-R.D.H._(Ghost_In_The_Machine)-2009-07-14T11:12:00.000Z-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-R.D.H._(Ghost_In_The_Machine)-2009-07-14T11:12:00.000Z-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lar-2009-07-14T12:43:00.000Z-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"></span>Thirded. ++<a href="/wiki/User:Lar" title="User:Lar">Lar</a>: <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lar" title="User talk:Lar">t</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lar" title="Special:Contributions/Lar">c</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Lar-2009-07-14T12:43:00.000Z-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:43, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lar-2009-07-14T12:43:00.000Z-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lar-2009-07-14T12:43:00.000Z-Cla68-2009-07-14T06:07:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ACPD" data-mw-thread-id="h-ACPD-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ACPD-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z"></span>ACPD<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ACPD-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: ACPD"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Stifle-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z-ACPD"></span>I think the problem with the ACPD is not that it exists, it's that there is no community input into the membership. <a href="/wiki/User:Stifle" title="User:Stifle">Stifle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Stifle/wizard" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Stifle/wizard">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Stifle-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z-ACPD" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:26, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Stifle-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z-ACPD"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Stifle-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z-ACPD"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Llywrch-2009-07-15T18:38:00.000Z-Stifle-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z"></span>Um, I still think the fact that the ACPD has no incontestable claim of legitimacy is its greatest weakness. Rootology explains the problem quite simply: Wikipedia has no functioning leader, no one of authority. Who is there who can appoint a membership for the ACPD which everyone would accept, or at least tolerate? Once upon a time it might be Jimmy Wales, but then he started to curtail his activities with Wikipedia & now is clearly out of touch with the community; except as a symbol of the project, & his role in picking members of the ArbCom, he is irrelevant to what happens here. ArbCom can't do it: their writ is simply to be the final step in resolving disputes, no more & no less; that quip from Wehwalt about the pep squad picking the student government is very accurate -- even if they picked someone who wasn't one of the "cool kids", no one would take their selection any more seriously than if the chess club or the school's chapter of Junior Achievement made the selection. The various WikiProjects? A few are functioning well, but most are barely able to handle even keeping their articles free of spam & vandalism, let alone improving content, & their own writs run no further than their topic areas. (Let the Military history & Chemistry WikiProjects history pick the membership of ACPD? Does anyone think that would work better?)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>But the shadow of Jimmy Wales over the English Wikipedia effectively keeps anyone else from assuming leadership. Take Durova, for example: agree or disagree with her, the woman has devoted so much energy & time to making some things work on Wikipedia (mostly concerning images, but often beyond that) that I wonder where she finds the time to work a job & support herself. Without Wales around, she would be a strong contender for the leadership position, if not in it. Yet because there is no way for her to acquire some kind of recognized authority here, she remains just another volunteer -- with as much authority as a newbie who makes a few controversial edits. Or me.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>As for the "decision by consensus" model, I think it can work with a few tweaks. (One important one would be to publicize proposed declarations of consensus somewhere so all interested parties are given a chance to participate.) However, getting there won't happen until someone is allowed to lead us there. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Llywrch" title="User:Llywrch">llywrch</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Llywrch" title="User talk:Llywrch">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Llywrch-2009-07-15T18:38:00.000Z-Stifle-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:38, 15 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Llywrch-2009-07-15T18:38:00.000Z-Stifle-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Llywrch-2009-07-15T18:38:00.000Z-Stifle-2009-07-14T09:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Echoes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Echoes-2009-07-14T14:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Echoes-2009-07-14T14:18:00.000Z"></span>Echoes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Echoes-2009-07-14T14:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Echoes"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-LtPowers-2009-07-14T14:18:00.000Z-Echoes"></span>I am reminded of a quotation: </p><p>"We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problem, agree what's in the best interests of all the people, and then do it." </p><p>"That is exactly what we do. The trouble is that people don't always agree. In fact, they hardly ever do." </p><p>"Then they should be made to." </p><p>-- <a href="/wiki/User:LtPowers" title="User:LtPowers">Powers</a> <sup><small><small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:LtPowers" title="User talk:LtPowers">T</a></small></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-LtPowers-2009-07-14T14:18:00.000Z-Echoes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-LtPowers-2009-07-14T14:18:00.000Z-Echoes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-LtPowers-2009-07-14T14:18:00.000Z-Echoes"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z"><span id="Hebrew_Wikipedia.27s_system"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z"></span>Hebrew Wikipedia's system<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Hebrew Wikipedia's system"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chutznik-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system"></span>Hebrew Wikipedia has a parliament voting system for policy changes. (Some changes it has enacted: English interwikis go above all other language interwikis, and AFD debates must be closed after <i>exactly</i> seven days, so late votes don't count.) After preliminary discussion, an admin opens debate on the parliament page, which is admin-protected so that any old user can't put a proposal there without prior discussion. Only active users (90 edits in the last three months) may vote. The Hebrew community is smaller and more insular, but as a governance system it works just fine, and actually does manage to effect change with anything that garners a 2/3 majority in most cases, or a plurality for "either/or" propositions, as I recall from 2008. Hebrew Wikipedia has no ArbCom, and has a community process for revoking the rights of inactive or misbehaving admins. It's not a perfect system, but it's better IMO than English Wikipedia's system, and should be considered in a discussion of alternative governance models. <a href="/wiki/User:Chutznik" title="User:Chutznik">Chutznik</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chutznik" title="User talk:Chutznik">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Chutznik-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chutznik-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chutznik-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z-Hebrew_Wikipedia's_system"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Harej-2009-07-15T03:42:00.000Z-Chutznik-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z"></span>Well that's the thing, it works with your language edition. The English Wikipedia is larger by multiple orders of magnitude, and so it's much harder to organize people. —<a href="/wiki/User:Harej" title="User:Harej">harej</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Harej" title="User talk:Harej">talk</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Coordination" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Coordination">cool!</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Harej-2009-07-15T03:42:00.000Z-Chutznik-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Harej-2009-07-15T03:42:00.000Z-Chutznik-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Harej-2009-07-15T03:42:00.000Z-Chutznik-2009-07-14T22:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Steve_Smith-2009-07-15T03:46:00.000Z-Harej-2009-07-15T03:42:00.000Z"></span>I would be miles ahead of what we have now. <a href="/wiki/User:Steve_Smith" title="User:Steve Smith">Steve Smith</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steve_Smith" title="User talk:Steve Smith">talk</a>) <small>(formerly Sarcasticidealist)</small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Steve_Smith-2009-07-15T03:46:00.000Z-Harej-2009-07-15T03:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:46, 15 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Steve_Smith-2009-07-15T03:46:00.000Z-Harej-2009-07-15T03:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Steve_Smith-2009-07-15T03:46:00.000Z-Harej-2009-07-15T03:42:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Slippery_slope" data-mw-thread-id="h-Slippery_slope-2009-07-15T00:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Slippery_slope-2009-07-15T00:42:00.000Z"></span>Slippery slope<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Slippery_slope-2009-07-15T00:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Slippery slope"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ZabMilenko-2009-07-15T00:42:00.000Z-Slippery_slope"></span>The nature of slippery slopes is one which tends to prevent readers from disputing any single point without slipping back to the bottom and disputing the whole package. Well, I cannot believe that the solution is giving individuals more power. If a problem exists it is not the people in charge, but the bull-headed veteran editor who wields guideline and policy like one of the four horsemen. Editors, not leaders, constantly bite newbies and make it a point to tell them about it using templates clearly advertising the (minor) failure of the recipient. It is no wonder that their only contributions, typically, are the ones being dragged through AFD a week after they summarily retired. </p><p>I have to give it to you that the system of consensus can be easily derailed, but I was disappointed to see that you mention the swiss policies which allow this behavior yet do not mention policy reform in your solution. Rather, the answer seems to be a new group of leaders to help interpret the policies. Remember, the leaders didn't vote on these guidelines, editors did. I'd bet half of the brokenness you are calling attention to can be fixed without giving a single person more power, instead go nominate <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IAR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IAR">WP:IAR</a> for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MFD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MFD">WP:MFD</a>. </p><p>It reads as if you are throwing your arms up in defeat because the bureaucracy is not growing fast enough to keep up with the community. Well I am a selfish, one-man WikiSloth who edits only for my own pleasure, and in my personal version of a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DRAMA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DRAMA">drama</a> article I would be leaving in a huff because of bureaucracy. </p><p>P.S. I would totally support your consensus change. <b><a href="/wiki/User:ZabMilenko" title="User:ZabMilenko">Zab</a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:ZabMilenko" title="User talk:ZabMilenko">Milenko</a></i><sup style="font-variant:small-caps;"><small><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_review/ZabMilenko" title="Wikipedia:Editor review/ZabMilenko">How am I driving?</a></small></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-ZabMilenko-2009-07-15T00:42:00.000Z-Slippery_slope" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:42, 15 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ZabMilenko-2009-07-15T00:42:00.000Z-Slippery_slope"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ZabMilenko-2009-07-15T00:42:00.000Z-Slippery_slope"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Suggestion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Suggestion-2009-07-27T17:12:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Suggestion-2009-07-27T17:12:00.000Z"></span>Suggestion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Suggestion-2009-07-27T17:12:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Suggestion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Peteforsyth-2009-07-27T17:12:00.000Z-Suggestion"></span>All too often, it seems people are willing to talk about "Wikipedia" as though it were one product or community, when i believe the reality is that it's a vast interlocking collection of products of a vast interlocking collection of communities. And some of those communities are much healthier than others. </p><p>In the areas of Wikipedia I work on, I have found many of the institutions you criticize in your essay to be very effective. Not always, but for most of the day-to-day work that produces high quality content and draws in large numbers of contributors. But the situation you describe does not match my experience of the project. </p><p>Bold leadership happens all the time on more local levels that don't attract so much attention; and in the areas where it does, strong editing communities thrive. I try to focus my own energy on making more of that happen, and for the most part leave the dysfunctional areas of the project alone. I have a great deal of experience around here, but unlike you, I feel powerless to assess what the predominant theme is; while I can see how it's tempting to focus on the most widely publicized issues in forming a conclusion, I believe that gives you a pretty biased sample. </p><p>So, a thought for you: I think your essay would be much more compelling if you were to cite specific examples that support your conclusions, and make the case that your examples are "more typical" than the kind I might cite to show the opposite. -<a href="/wiki/User:Peteforsyth" title="User:Peteforsyth">Pete</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Peteforsyth" title="User talk:Peteforsyth">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Peteforsyth-2009-07-27T17:12:00.000Z-Suggestion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Peteforsyth-2009-07-27T17:12:00.000Z-Suggestion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Peteforsyth-2009-07-27T17:12:00.000Z-Suggestion"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Rename" data-mw-thread-id="h-Rename-2009-08-29T17:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Rename-2009-08-29T17:18:00.000Z"></span>Rename<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Rename-2009-08-29T17:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Rename"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-The_Rambling_Man-2009-08-29T17:18:00.000Z-Rename"></span>Hi Rootology. Sorry to see that's come to this. Per your recent CHU request, could you just clarify (either there, here or to me directly) why you need to change your username because you're resigning at meta? <a href="/wiki/User:The_Rambling_Man" title="User:The Rambling Man">The Rambling Man</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Rambling_Man" title="User talk:The Rambling Man">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-The_Rambling_Man-2009-08-29T17:18:00.000Z-Rename" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-The_Rambling_Man-2009-08-29T17:18:00.000Z-Rename"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-The_Rambling_Man-2009-08-29T17:18:00.000Z-Rename"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="If_this_is_true" data-mw-thread-id="h-If_this_is_true-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-If_this_is_true-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z"></span>If this is true<span data-mw-comment-end="h-If_this_is_true-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: If this is true"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abce2-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z-If_this_is_true"></span>If Wikipedia is really broken and failing, then heck, I'll go down with the ship.<a href="/wiki/User:Abce2" title="User:Abce2"><span style="font-family:Fantasy; color:#3366FF;">Abce2</span></a>|<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abce2" title="User talk:Abce2"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#0099AA;"><i>If you would </i></span></a><a href="/wiki/User:Abce2/guestbook" title="User:Abce2/guestbook"><span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#FFAA11;"><i>like to make a call..</i></span></a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Abce2-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z-If_this_is_true" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 21 December 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abce2-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z-If_this_is_true"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abce2-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z-If_this_is_true"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T18:09:00.000Z-Abce2-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z"></span>Me too! We're doomed! Sob! ... said: <a href="/wiki/User:Rursus" title="User:Rursus">Rursus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rursus" title="User talk:Rursus"><b><span style="color: #CC0044; background: #CCFF88"><sup>m</sup><u>bork³</u></span></b></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Rursus-2009-12-21T18:09:00.000Z-Abce2-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:09, 21 December 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T18:09:00.000Z-Abce2-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T18:09:00.000Z-Abce2-2009-12-21T04:24:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Abce2-2009-12-21T18:42:00.000Z-Rursus-2009-12-21T18:09:00.000Z"></span>That reminds me of a song.<a href="/wiki/User:Abce2" title="User:Abce2"><span style="font-family:Fantasy; color:#3366FF;">Abce2</span></a>|<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Abce2" title="User talk:Abce2"><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#0099AA;"><i>If you would </i></span></a><a href="/wiki/User:Abce2/guestbook" title="User:Abce2/guestbook"><span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#FFAA11;"><i>like to make a call..</i></span></a></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Abce2-2009-12-21T18:42:00.000Z-Rursus-2009-12-21T18:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 21 December 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Abce2-2009-12-21T18:42:00.000Z-Rursus-2009-12-21T18:09:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Abce2-2009-12-21T18:42:00.000Z-Rursus-2009-12-21T18:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T20:54:00.000Z-Abce2-2009-12-21T18:42:00.000Z"></span>What song? ... said: <a href="/wiki/User:Rursus" title="User:Rursus">Rursus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rursus" title="User talk:Rursus"><b><span style="color: #CC0044; background: #CCFF88"><sup>m</sup><u>bork³</u></span></b></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Rursus-2009-12-21T20:54:00.000Z-Abce2-2009-12-21T18:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:54, 21 December 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T20:54:00.000Z-Abce2-2009-12-21T18:42:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T20:54:00.000Z-Abce2-2009-12-21T18:42:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Always_Look_on_the_Bright_Side_of_Life" title="Always Look on the Bright Side of Life"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WereSpielChequers-2009-12-21T21:32:00.000Z-Rursus-2009-12-21T20:54:00.000Z"></span>Presumably this song</a>. <i><a href="/wiki/User:WereSpielChequers" title="User:WereSpielChequers"><span style="color:DarkGreen">Ϣere</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:WereSpielChequers" title="User talk:WereSpielChequers"><span style="color:DarkRed">Spiel</span></a><span style="color:DarkOrange">Chequers</span></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-WereSpielChequers-2009-12-21T21:32:00.000Z-Rursus-2009-12-21T20:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 21 December 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WereSpielChequers-2009-12-21T21:32:00.000Z-Rursus-2009-12-21T20:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WereSpielChequers-2009-12-21T21:32:00.000Z-Rursus-2009-12-21T20:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T21:35:00.000Z-WereSpielChequers-2009-12-21T21:32:00.000Z"></span>But of course! Now this evening is saved at least! ... said: <a href="/wiki/User:Rursus" title="User:Rursus">Rursus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rursus" title="User talk:Rursus"><b><span style="color: #CC0044; background: #CCFF88"><sup>m</sup><u>bork³</u></span></b></a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Rursus-2009-12-21T21:35:00.000Z-WereSpielChequers-2009-12-21T21:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:35, 21 December 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T21:35:00.000Z-WereSpielChequers-2009-12-21T21:32:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rursus-2009-12-21T21:35:00.000Z-WereSpielChequers-2009-12-21T21:32:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jimbo_has_no_authority" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jimbo_has_no_authority-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Jimbo_has_no_authority-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"></span>Jimbo has no authority<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Jimbo_has_no_authority-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Jimbo has no authority"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z-Jimbo_has_no_authority"></span>I disagree when you said that <a href="/wiki/User:Jimbo_Wales" title="User:Jimbo Wales">Jimbo</a> had no authority. Take, for instance, the <a href="https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/" class="extiw" title="v:">Wikiversity</a> incident (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2010-03-15/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2010-03-15/News and notes">this signpost article</a> for more information). Jimbo, after hearing about the incident, immediately deleted the page, indeffed a user, desysopped another, and considered the deletion of Wikiversity. Surely he has some authority over the projects? <span class="plainlinks">—<b><a href="/wiki/User:MC10" title="User:MC10"><span style="color:#9370DB;">MC10</span></a> <small><span style="color:#4169E1;">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MC10" title="User talk:MC10"><span style="color:#4169E1;">T</span></a>•<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/MC10" title="Special:Contributions/MC10"><span style="color:#4169E1;">C</span></a>•<a href="/wiki/User:MC10/Guestbook" title="User:MC10/Guestbook"><span style="color:#4169E1;">GB</span></a>•<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=MC10"><span style="color:#4169E1;">L</span></a>)</span></small></b></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z-Jimbo_has_no_authority" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:14, 12 May 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z-Jimbo_has_no_authority"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z-Jimbo_has_no_authority"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-OlEnglish-2010-05-20T00:18:00.000Z-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"></span>He certainly has (had?) the authority to ban users. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_banned_users#Banned_by_Jimbo_Wales" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:List of banned users">Wikipedia:List of banned users#Banned by Jimbo Wales</a>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:OlEnglish" title="User:OlEnglish"><span style="font-size:x-large;">œ</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:OlEnglish" title="User talk:OlEnglish"><sup>™</sup></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-OlEnglish-2010-05-20T00:18:00.000Z-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 20 May 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-OlEnglish-2010-05-20T00:18:00.000Z-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-OlEnglish-2010-05-20T00:18:00.000Z-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Njsustain-2013-09-02T12:40:00.000Z-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"></span>He has the legal and technical authority, but if he no longer gets involved in the details of the day to day issues nor the mechanisms of the project, it is essentially the same thing as having no authority. He is a figurehead. A symbol of WPs origins, but is apparently (to me) not longer concerned with where the content is going. Who ultimately runs the on/off switches is not important if they are asleep at the switch. <a href="/wiki/User:Njsustain" title="User:Njsustain">Njsustain</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Njsustain" title="User talk:Njsustain">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Njsustain-2013-09-02T12:40:00.000Z-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:40, 2 September 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Njsustain-2013-09-02T12:40:00.000Z-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Njsustain-2013-09-02T12:40:00.000Z-MC10-2010-05-12T04:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-WereSpielChequers-2015-04-12T13:06:00.000Z-Njsustain-2013-09-02T12:40:00.000Z"></span>He is still a trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation, one of our thousands of community members and also one of the 500 or so admins on EN wiki. So when it comes to authority he is very much part of the process. But the process has developed, it is not some arbitrary North Korean style system where the GodKing can make arbitrary decisions, and of course that is a good thing. <i><a href="/wiki/User:WereSpielChequers" title="User:WereSpielChequers"><span style="color:DarkGreen">Ϣere</span></a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:WereSpielChequers" title="User talk:WereSpielChequers"><span style="color:DarkRed">Spiel</span></a><span style="color:#CC5500">Chequers</span></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-WereSpielChequers-2015-04-12T13:06:00.000Z-Njsustain-2013-09-02T12:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:06, 12 April 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-WereSpielChequers-2015-04-12T13:06:00.000Z-Njsustain-2013-09-02T12:40:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-WereSpielChequers-2015-04-12T13:06:00.000Z-Njsustain-2013-09-02T12:40:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Couldn't_have_said_it_better" data-mw-thread-id="h-Couldn't_have_said_it_better-2010-07-02T20:10:00.000Z"><span id="Couldn.27t_have_said_it_better"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Couldn't_have_said_it_better-2010-07-02T20:10:00.000Z"></span>Couldn't have said it better<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Couldn't_have_said_it_better-2010-07-02T20:10:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Couldn't have said it better"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mk5384-2010-07-02T20:10:00.000Z-Couldn't_have_said_it_better"></span>The content of your user page sums up Wikipedia as a whole better than anything I've ever heard. You are dead on. I do wish you would reconsider your retirement. This site needs more people like you. Wikipedia will always be the way you describe on your user page, and will probably even get worse, unless people like you are willing to stand and fight.<a href="/wiki/User:Mk5384" title="User:Mk5384">Mk5384</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mk5384" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Mk5384">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Mk5384-2010-07-02T20:10:00.000Z-Couldn't_have_said_it_better" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:10, 2 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mk5384-2010-07-02T20:10:00.000Z-Couldn't_have_said_it_better"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mk5384-2010-07-02T20:10:00.000Z-Couldn't_have_said_it_better"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="good_point" data-mw-thread-id="h-good_point-2014-09-11T01:56:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-good_point-2014-09-11T01:56:00.000Z"></span>good point<span data-mw-comment-end="h-good_point-2014-09-11T01:56:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: good point"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Secondplanet&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Secondplanet (page does not exist)"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Secondplanet-2014-09-11T01:56:00.000Z-good_point"></span>Secondplanet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Secondplanet" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Secondplanet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Secondplanet-2014-09-11T01:56:00.000Z-good_point" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:56, 11 September 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Secondplanet-2014-09-11T01:56:00.000Z-good_point"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Secondplanet-2014-09-11T01:56:00.000Z-good_point"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sensa-yuma" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sensa-yuma-2015-04-10T11:10:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sensa-yuma-2015-04-10T11:10:00.000Z"></span>Sensa-yuma<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sensa-yuma-2015-04-10T11:10:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Sensa-yuma"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tapered-2015-04-10T11:10:00.000Z-Sensa-yuma"></span>For the record, I'm a minor editor. By nature, I'm reactive, pugnacious, potentially violent, and periodically confrontational. Some of the rules of Wikipedia run up against my essential nature, and force me to be civil when I'd rather be self-indulgent So it's more than a bit ironic for me to say that this page is a quart low on Sense of Humor. It's six years since the main body of the User Page was written--and Wikipedia is still an excellent source of information. It's not perfect, and it will never be the equivalent of the the Encyclopedia Britannica in its heyday. Readers need to read carefully and pay close attention to the reference list when evaluating the veracity and utility of any article. Yes there are cabals of editors who control articles and categories of articles and poison the atmosphere around some of them. But Wikipedia was designed to be structurally loose and structurally non-authoritarian, so islands of less than perfection are inevitable. "While bankers' nieces seek perfection, expecting all the gifts that wise men bring." If enough Wikipedia editors continue to do their tasks in good faith, it will "muddle through" (as the Brits say) at the least of it. Regards <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Tapered&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Tapered (page does not exist)">Tapered</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tapered" title="User talk:Tapered">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Tapered-2015-04-10T11:10:00.000Z-Sensa-yuma" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:10, 10 April 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tapered-2015-04-10T11:10:00.000Z-Sensa-yuma"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tapered-2015-04-10T11:10:00.000Z-Sensa-yuma"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Recent_edits/reverts/edits" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recent_edits/reverts/edits-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"><span id="Recent_edits.2Freverts.2Fedits"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Recent_edits/reverts/edits-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"></span>Recent edits/reverts/edits<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Recent_edits/reverts/edits-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Recent edits/reverts/edits"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z-Recent_edits/reverts/edits"></span>Keeping in mind <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOBAN">WP:NOBAN</a>, in my opinion it is best to leave this userpage-essay in its original state and not to redact its content. <a href="/wiki/User:Shearonink" title="User:Shearonink">Shearonink</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shearonink" title="User talk:Shearonink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z-Recent_edits/reverts/edits" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:05, 11 February 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z-Recent_edits/reverts/edits"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z-Recent_edits/reverts/edits"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:18:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"></span>Er, what? Why? People can improve others' articles, can't they? Hdjensofjfnen (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hdjensofjfnen" title="User talk:Hdjensofjfnen">Is something wrong?</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:18:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 17 February 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:18:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:18:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:21:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"></span>Plus, I spent time editing that page. It wasn't all done in a second. Hdjensofjfnen (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hdjensofjfnen" title="User talk:Hdjensofjfnen">Is something wrong?</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:21:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:21, 17 February 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:21:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:21:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:23:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"></span>And <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOBAN">WP:NOBAN</a> says "in general", and I was not prohibited to edit by the user himself, <a href="/wiki/User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired" class="mw-redirect" title="User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired">User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired</a>. Hdjensofjfnen (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hdjensofjfnen" title="User talk:Hdjensofjfnen">Is something wrong?</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:23:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:23, 17 February 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:23:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:23:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-11T01:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired" class="mw-redirect" title="User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shearonink-2016-02-17T02:53:00.000Z-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:23:00.000Z"></span>User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired</a> has not edited since 2010.</li> <li>Per their User talk page, GANAR has completely retired from Wikipedia editing, so it is unclear to me how the user can be asked any questions. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOBAN">WP:NOBAN</a> does say "in general" and then goes on to say "it is usual to avoid <b>substantially editing another's user and user talk pages</b> <i>other than where it is likely edits are expected and/or will be helpful</i> [emphasis mine]. Adding this "nutshell" template is not a minor edit, it substantially alters the user page in question and per the reversions of the added content it seems evident that other editors are not regarding it as helpful.</li> <li>The page in question, <a href="/wiki/User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing" title="User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia is broken and failing">User:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia is broken and failing</a> has been rendered as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:USERPAGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:USERPAGE">WP:USERPAGE</a>. It has not been published out into the main Wikipedia space, it is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:USERPAGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:USERPAGE">WP:USERPAGE</a>. The essay template was placed on the user page by another editor in January 2011 even though GANAR had added the Retired template to <u>this</u> talk page in July 2009 & last editing Wikipedia in March 2010. (In my opinion, even the essay template should not be there so, keeping <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRD">WP:BRD</a> in mind, I have just removed it.) As you are aware, editors are free to delete warnings/notices on their own user talk, but this particular editor has clearly indicated that <b>they are no longer editing Wikipedia</b>. This content should be left <i>as is</i>.</li> <li>Your added "nutshell" content has been reverted by <i>three</i> other editors, I think the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONSENSUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONSENSUS">consensus</a> is clear to leave GANAR's user page alone. <a href="/wiki/User:Shearonink" title="User:Shearonink">Shearonink</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shearonink" title="User talk:Shearonink">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Shearonink-2016-02-17T02:53:00.000Z-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:53, 17 February 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shearonink-2016-02-17T02:53:00.000Z-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:23:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shearonink-2016-02-17T02:53:00.000Z-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-17T00:23:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-22T22:42:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-17T02:53:00.000Z"></span>Thought it was an essay — oops! Hdjensofjfnen (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hdjensofjfnen" title="User talk:Hdjensofjfnen">Is something wrong?</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-22T22:42:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-17T02:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:42, 22 February 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-22T22:42:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-17T02:53:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hdjensofjfnen-2016-02-22T22:42:00.000Z-Shearonink-2016-02-17T02:53:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Today's_Wikipedian_10_years_ago" data-mw-thread-id="h-Today's_Wikipedian_10_years_ago-2019-03-26T07:47:00.000Z"><span id="Today.27s_Wikipedian_10_years_ago"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Today's_Wikipedian_10_years_ago-2019-03-26T07:47:00.000Z"></span>Today's Wikipedian 10 years ago<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Today's_Wikipedian_10_years_ago-2019-03-26T07:47:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Today's Wikipedian 10 years ago"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Gerda_Arendt-2019-03-26T07:47:00.000Z-Today's_Wikipedian_10_years_ago"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1257001546">.mw-parser-output .infobox-subbox{padding:0;border:none;margin:-3px;width:auto;min-width:100%;font-size:100%;clear:none;float:none;background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .infobox-3cols-child{margin:auto}.mw-parser-output .infobox .navbar{font-size:100%}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .infobox-full-data:not(.notheme)>div:not(.notheme)[style]{background:#1f1f23!important;color:#f8f9fa}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .infobox-full-data:not(.notheme) div:not(.notheme){background:#1f1f23!important;color:#f8f9fa}}@media(min-width:640px){body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table{display:table!important}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table>caption{display:table-caption!important}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table>tbody{display:table-row-group}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table tr{display:table-row!important}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table th,body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table td{padding-left:inherit;padding-right:inherit}}</style><table class="infobox nowrap plainlist" style="width:auto; background-color:#ddd; border:5px solid #ddd; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);; border-radius:0.5em;"><caption class="infobox-title">Awesome</caption><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="infobox-image"><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File/Frameless"><a href="/wiki/File:Cscr-featured.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e7/Cscr-featured.svg/80px-Cscr-featured.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="76" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e7/Cscr-featured.svg/120px-Cscr-featured.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e7/Cscr-featured.svg/160px-Cscr-featured.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="466" data-file-height="443"/></a></span></td></tr><tr><th colspan="2" class="infobox-header"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Quality_Article_Improvement/Precious#Dylan620,_2009" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious">Ten years!</a></th></tr></tbody></table> <p>--<a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">Gerda Arendt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gerda_Arendt" title="User talk:Gerda Arendt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:GoneAwayNowAndRetired/Wikipedia_is_broken_and_failing#c-Gerda_Arendt-2019-03-26T07:47:00.000Z-Today's_Wikipedian_10_years_ago" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:47, 26 March 2019 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Gerda_Arendt-2019-03-26T07:47:00.000Z-Today's_Wikipedian_10_years_ago"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Gerda_Arendt-2019-03-26T07:47:00.000Z-Today's_Wikipedian_10_years_ago"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; 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