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data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Body_roundness_index-20240921012800"></span><a href="/wiki/Body_roundness_index" title="Body roundness index">Body roundness index</a><span data-mw-comment-end="h-Body_roundness_index-20240921012800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Body roundness index"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240921012800-Body_roundness_index"></span>What do you think of the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2819558">BRI</a> vs. BMI? <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10076882/">Also, this.</a> </p><p>We don't have an article on BRI yet, but it's getting more <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Wellness/body-roundness-index-alternative-bmi/story?id=113872270">public attention</a>. Might be worthwhile to include in your calculators project. <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240921012800-Body_roundness_index" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:28, 21 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240921012800-Body_roundness_index"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240921012800-Body_roundness_index"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240921020700-Zefr-20240921012800"></span>User:Zefr</a> Yah for sure it would be reasonable to have that calculator aswell. Do you want to give it a try building it? It is not that complicated. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240921020700-Zefr-20240921012800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:07, 21 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240921020700-Zefr-20240921012800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240921020700-Zefr-20240921012800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240921021800-Doc_James-20240921020700"></span>Sure. Will work at it over the next few days, and will alert you here. <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240921021800-Doc_James-20240921020700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:18, 21 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240921021800-Doc_James-20240921020700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240921021800-Doc_James-20240921020700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240924022900-Zefr-20240921021800"></span>A start class article is completed. Would benefit from your review and edits. <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240924022900-Zefr-20240921021800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 24 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240924022900-Zefr-20240921021800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240924022900-Zefr-20240921021800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240925020900-Zefr-20240924022900"></span>Amazing. You want to build a calculator to go in the article? <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240925020900-Zefr-20240924022900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:09, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240925020900-Zefr-20240924022900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240925020900-Zefr-20240924022900"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Ellipse#Eccentricity" title="Ellipse"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240925024200-Doc_James-20240925020900"></span>Using this format</a>, I drafted an equation and tried to solve my own BRI, but it looked and felt clumsy.</dd> <dd>When you say "build", how does that work? It would be a significant public contribution for Wikipedia to provide a calculator. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://webfce.com/bri-calculator/">The one in the article</a> is easy to use, but is owned by a commercial enterprise. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.pbrc.edu/research-and-faculty/calculators/body-roundness/">The one offered in the Thomas article is defunct</a>.</dd> <dd>For the article, I copied and cited the equation from the 'BRI definition' in the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC11154161/">Zhang article</a>, but the original equation development is more extensive and calculus-based under 'Supplementary material' (downloadable file) in the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692604/#SD1">Thomas article</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240925024200-Doc_James-20240925020900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:42, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240925024200-Doc_James-20240925020900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240925024200-Doc_James-20240925020900"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240925032400-Zefr-20240925024200"></span>User:Zefr</a> Okay here is a draft <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James/BRI" title="User:Doc James/BRI">User:Doc James/BRI</a>. Will need some work to get it to function with metric and imperial like we have for BMI. Also need to figure out how to get two significant figures after the decimal point. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240925032400-Zefr-20240925024200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240925032400-Zefr-20240925024200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240925032400-Zefr-20240925024200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240925184700-Doc_James-20240925032400"></span>The variables presented in the calculation in your draft and in the article (from the Zhang source) are waist circumference and height, but the original Thomas calculation (from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3692604/">the publication</a> under <i>Web-based Calculator</i> states: <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">Screen shot of Body Roundness Calculator. After the user enters <u>personal information for age, height, weight, sex, race, waist and hip circumferences,</u> the program outputs total percent body fat, amount and percent of VAT, the body roundness index, and whether the individual is within the determined healthy range of body roundness. A graph depicting the resulting individual ellipse (African American curve) and healthy range (green shaded area) provide the user a visual representation of their body roundness relative to the healthy range.</q> (my underlining).</dd> <dd>In the Discussion, Thomas summarizes: <i>"we may have reached the limits of maximal accuracy of predictions of VAT and % body fat that rely solely on the circumference measurements (waist and hip), age, height, sex, race, and weight."</i></dd> <dd>The easy-to-use calculator <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://webfce.com/bri-calculator/">here</a> uses these same 6 variables (race/ethnicity is optional).</dd> <dd>I explained in the article under Calculation: "The only device needed to determine BRI is a measuring tape for <u>circumference of waist and hips, and determination of height</u>," which comes from the sources.</dd> <dd>Thoughts on best dealing with these variations for the BRI calculator? <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240925184700-Doc_James-20240925032400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:47, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240925184700-Doc_James-20240925032400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240925184700-Doc_James-20240925032400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240925185600-Zefr-20240925184700"></span>That calculator provide Percent Body Fat, BMI, and BRI. Depending which one of those you want you need to provide different variable. For BRI you only need height and waist. And that is all my BRI calculator uses. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240925185600-Zefr-20240925184700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:56, 25 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240925185600-Zefr-20240925184700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240925185600-Zefr-20240925184700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926002500-Doc_James-20240925185600"></span>Anyway the calculator can also be adjusted to take imperial as we see here <a href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Template:BMI_calculator2" class="extiw" title="mdwiki:Template:BMI calculator2">mdwiki:Template:BMI calculator2</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926002500-Doc_James-20240925185600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:25, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926002500-Doc_James-20240925185600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926002500-Doc_James-20240925185600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926005700-Body_roundness_index"></span>User:Zefr</a> Built another one here <a href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Pulmonary_embolism#Probability_testing" class="extiw" title="mdwiki:Pulmonary embolism">mdwiki:Pulmonary_embolism#Probability_testing</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926005700-Body_roundness_index" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:57, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926005700-Body_roundness_index"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926005700-Body_roundness_index"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240926010700-Doc_James-20240926005700"></span>Both the BMI and PE calculators are nice. What is needed to finish the BRI calculator? <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240926010700-Doc_James-20240926005700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240926010700-Doc_James-20240926005700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240926010700-Doc_James-20240926005700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926011800-Zefr-20240926010700"></span>Would be nice if it accepted metric or imperial, similar to the BMI calculator. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926011800-Zefr-20240926010700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:18, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926011800-Zefr-20240926010700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926011800-Zefr-20240926010700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926020400-Body_roundness_index"></span>Another one at <a href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Chest_pain#Risk_scores" class="extiw" title="mdwiki:Chest pain">mdwiki:Chest_pain#Risk_scores</a>. Same data that EN WP provides but is interactive and calculates a result based on user imputs. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926020400-Body_roundness_index" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:04, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926020400-Body_roundness_index"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926020400-Body_roundness_index"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240926024200-Doc_James-20240926020400"></span>Another good one. Given your experience in building the BMI calculator, can't that one be the model to complete the BRI? I wasn't following the VP-Tech discussion you had earlier this month - are there editors from there that could finish the BRI?</dd> <dd>As I didn't have VP-Tech on my watchlist, and didn't know about your discussion, I posted a <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Building_a_simple_body_index_calculator">question there today</a>. Apologies for the replication. <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240926024200-Doc_James-20240926020400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:42, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240926024200-Doc_James-20240926020400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240926024200-Doc_James-20240926020400"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926032200-Zefr-20240926024200"></span>User:Zefr</a> tool takes a bit of trial and error. Have the inputs formating correctly for metric and imperial here <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James/BRI2" title="User:Doc James/BRI2">User:Doc James/BRI2</a> but just struggling to get the formula to work... <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926032200-Zefr-20240926024200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:22, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926032200-Zefr-20240926024200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926032200-Zefr-20240926024200"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926151600-Doc_James-20240926032200"></span>User:Zefr</a> okay have it working now. Will need to get the tool activated by default to have it be generally useful. That will require consensus at WT:MED and VPT. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926151600-Doc_James-20240926032200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926151600-Doc_James-20240926032200"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926151600-Doc_James-20240926032200"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240926154500-Doc_James-20240926151600"></span>Does look good, thanks. The equation in the article was rewritten with <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science&action=history">this interesting history</a>.</dd> <dd>Uwappa had some <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Building_a_simple_body_index_calculator">thoughts about color-coding the cells</a>. What do you think?</dd> <dd>As you are working on several calculators, are you going to provide a list for WT:MED to review? VPT seems it's had <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=1247879258">enough discussion about calculators for now.</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240926154500-Doc_James-20240926151600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240926154500-Doc_James-20240926151600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240926154500-Doc_James-20240926151600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926155100-Zefr-20240926154500"></span>We have both formating styles for BMI results <a href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Body_mass_index" class="extiw" title="mdwiki:Body mass index">mdwiki:Body mass index</a>. IMO no need to limit oneself to one.</dd> <dd>Yes working on a bunch of calculators for MDWiki. If folks here wish to use some of them they are more then welcome to. All material licensed under a compatible license. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926155100-Zefr-20240926154500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:51, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926155100-Zefr-20240926154500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926155100-Zefr-20240926154500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240926164000-Doc_James-20240926155100"></span>What do you recommend next for the BRI calculator being in the article? Should it be applied as for BMI, or was there something further you'd prefer to tweak or add? <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240926164000-Doc_James-20240926155100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:40, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240926164000-Doc_James-20240926155100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240926164000-Doc_James-20240926155100"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926173300-Zefr-20240926164000"></span>User:Zefr</a> IMO I think it is ready to go in the article. But we would need to get it turned on for general use. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926173300-Zefr-20240926164000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926173300-Zefr-20240926164000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926173300-Zefr-20240926164000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240926180100-Doc_James-20240926173300"></span>Done, with thanks for your quick work. As a fairly wide box, it seems practical in the white space beside the TOC, knowing this may violate a style rule. Thoughts? <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240926180100-Doc_James-20240926173300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240926180100-Doc_James-20240926173300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240926180100-Doc_James-20240926173300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926181100-Zefr-20240926180100"></span>Placed in the infobox... Let me know what you think?</dd> <dd>Also it does not work unless people have turned the gadget on. So we either need to build a notice for those who do not have it on how to turn on the gadget, or get it activated by default.</dd> <dd>Asked at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Xaosflux#Updating" title="User talk:Xaosflux">User_talk:Xaosflux#Updating</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926181100-Zefr-20240926180100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926181100-Zefr-20240926180100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926181100-Zefr-20240926180100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240926183900-Zefr-20240926180100"></span>Good point about the gadget - most visitors to the page would not know otherwise, and may be frustrated by an unsolved BRI (IP users especially).</dd> <dd>Concerning the BRI for % total fat and % visceral adipose tissue, Thomas says "maximal accuracy of predictions of VAT and % body fat rely solely on the circumference measurements (waist and hip), age, height, sex, race, and weight", indicating another calculator including the additional 5 variables - hip, age, gender, ethnicity, weight - would offer something more (possibly only for researchers)... or does this get too deep into the weeds? <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240926183900-Zefr-20240926180100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:39, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240926183900-Zefr-20240926180100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240926183900-Zefr-20240926180100"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926191300-Zefr-20240926183900"></span>One could build other calculators for % total fat and % visceral adipose tissue, these are different than BRI though. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926191300-Zefr-20240926183900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:13, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926191300-Zefr-20240926183900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926191300-Zefr-20240926183900"></span> <dl><dd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)&diff=prev&oldid=1247978596"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20240927013400-Doc_James-20240926191300"></span>Good points.</a> Seems best for the widest viewership to remove it until a fix or disclaimer is provided. Thoughts? <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20240927013400-Doc_James-20240926191300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:34, 27 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20240927013400-Doc_James-20240926191300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20240927013400-Doc_James-20240926191300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240927024400-Zefr-20240927013400"></span>Good to have something for people to review and provide feedback on. I would leave it for now and we will continue to work on it. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240927024400-Zefr-20240927013400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240927024400-Zefr-20240927013400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240927024400-Zefr-20240927013400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240927034900-Doc_James-20240927024400"></span>Looks like issues are now addressed <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240927034900-Doc_James-20240927024400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:49, 27 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240927034900-Doc_James-20240927024400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240927034900-Doc_James-20240927024400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240926183300-Body_roundness_index"></span> Discussion now at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Turning_on_the_Calculator_gadget_as_default" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)">Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Turning_on_the_Calculator_gadget_as_default</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240926183300-Body_roundness_index" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:33, 26 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240926183300-Body_roundness_index"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240926183300-Body_roundness_index"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20240928154500-Doc_James-20240926183300"></span>Thought 1: Provide realistic default values. <ol><li>The calculator will show a meaningful result from the start, even to readers who do not input numbers.</li> <li>Meaningful default input examples are more inviting to enter real data. Also it will require less clicks to step up/down, compared to clicking all the way from zero.</li> <li>Exceptions like "NaN" and "infinity" will be rare.</li></ol></dd> <dd>Thought 2: Compute a healthy target. Given the input height, what range should the weight or waist be to score "green"? E.g. for a height of 180cm, a 'green' weight should be in the range 60-81kg. <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20240928154500-Doc_James-20240926183300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:45, 28 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20240928154500-Doc_James-20240926183300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20240928154500-Doc_James-20240926183300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240928160100-Uwappa-20240928154500"></span>Yah default values are already possible. What would you like them to be. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240928160100-Uwappa-20240928154500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:01, 28 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240928160100-Uwappa-20240928154500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240928160100-Uwappa-20240928154500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20240928162500-Doc_James-20240928160100"></span>Any realistic numbers will do. So, just go for something close to the worldwide average? <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=average+weight+human">Numbers found using Wolphram Alpha</a>: <ul><li>height: 162 cm</li> <li>weight: 69 kg</li></ul></dd> <dd>And update those defaults later when anyone comes up with a better idea? <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20240928162500-Doc_James-20240928160100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:25, 28 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20240928162500-Doc_James-20240928160100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20240928162500-Doc_James-20240928160100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20240929023700-Uwappa-20240928162500"></span>BRI uses waist and height... have added defaults<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ABody_roundness_index&diff=1248358620&oldid=1248004090">[1]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20240929023700-Uwappa-20240928162500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20240929023700-Uwappa-20240928162500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20240929023700-Uwappa-20240928162500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20241012192700-Doc_James-20240929023700"></span>The BRI article has had some changes and considerable talk page discussion. It would benefit from your review and editing, with thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20241012192700-Doc_James-20240929023700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:27, 12 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20241012192700-Doc_James-20240929023700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20241012192700-Doc_James-20240929023700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241013030200-Zefr-20241012192700"></span>Hey Zefr. Mainly just interested in the calculator aspect of things. Best <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241013030200-Zefr-20241012192700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:02, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241013030200-Zefr-20241012192700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241013030200-Zefr-20241012192700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241013092500-Body_roundness_index"></span>Impact on calculator, show a silhouette matching the computed BRI, with a background colour for health level. </p><p>Step 1, The default situation <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256395226">.mw-parser-output table{background-color:#F4F4F4;color:#000000;border-radius:10px;overflow:hidden}.mw-parser-output td.prompt{background-color:#E0E0E0;color:grey;text-align:right;padding:0 0.5ex}.mw-parser-output td{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output th{background-color:#E0E0E0;color:grey;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .risk{display:none}.mw-parser-output tr.obscured{display:none}.mw-parser-output tr.briRow td input{display:none}.mw-parser-output .bri1{background-color:#AA202F;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette1:checked~.bri1{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri2{background-color:#CCFA7F;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette2:checked~.bri2{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri3{background-color:#BFFF7F;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette3:checked~.bri3{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri4{background-color:#FFE97F;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette4:checked~.bri4{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri5{background-color:#FFBD7F;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette5:checked~.bri5{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri6{background-color:#FF7F91;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette6:checked~.bri6{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri7{background-color:#F67587;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette7:checked~.bri7{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri8{background-color:#F16F80;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette8:checked~.bri8{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri9{background-color:#EB6879;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette9:checked~.bri9{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri10{background-color:#E36071;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette10:checked~.bri10{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri11{background-color:#DB5768;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette11:checked~.bri11{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri12{background-color:#D34D5E;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette12:checked~.bri12{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri13{background-color:#CB4455;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette13:checked~.bri13{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri14{background-color:#C33B4B;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette14:checked~.bri14{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri15{background-color:#BA3242;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette15:checked~.bri15{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri16{background-color:#B32938;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette16:checked~.bri16{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri17{background-color:#AA202F;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette17:checked~.bri17{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri18{background-color:#A21625;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette18:checked~.bri18{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri19{background-color:#9A0D1B;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette19:checked~.bri19{display:block}.mw-parser-output .bri20{background-color:#8E000E;display:none}.mw-parser-output #calculator-field-showSilhouette20:checked~.bri20{display:block}</style> </p> <table class="wikitable bmicalc calculatorgadget-enabled" style="float: right; margin-left:15px; text-align:center"> <caption>Calculator </caption> <tbody><tr> <td>Units</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-name="units">1</span> Metric <br/><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-imperial" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-name="units">0</span> Imperial </td></tr> <tr> <td>Height</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric2" data-calculator-type="checkbox" style="display:none" data-calculator-formula="metric">1</span><span class="ifmetric"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightcm" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="(heightfeet*12*2.54+heightinches*2.54)" data-calculator-size="3">178</span> cm</span><span class="ifimperial"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightfeet" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightcm/(12*2.54))" data-calculator-size="2">5</span> feet <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightinches" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="(heightcm/(2.54)-12*floor(heightcm/(12*2.54)))" data-calculator-size="3" data-calculator-max="11" data-calculator-min="0">10.078740157480311</span> in</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Waist</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric1" data-calculator-type="checkbox" style="display:none" data-calculator-formula="metric">1</span><span class="ifmetric"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistcm" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waistinch*2.54" data-calculator-size="3">80</span> cm</span><span class="ifimperial"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistinch" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waistcm/2.54" data-calculator-size="3">31.496062992125985</span> in</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td>BRI </td> <td style="background-color: #FFE97F;"><div class=""> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -50px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div> <b><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-brimetric" data-calculator-type="plain" style="min-width:3ch;display:inline-block" data-calculator-formula="ifzero(imperial,(364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waistcm/6.28318,2)/pow(0.5×heightcm,2)),0.5)),(364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waistinch/2.4737,2)/pow(0.5×(heightfeet*30.48+heightinches*2.54),2)),0.5)))" data-calculator-decimals="2" data-calculator-nan-text=" ">2.46</span></b> </td></tr></tbody></table> <p>The silhouette is lean. The background colour is yellow, signalling a warning. </p><p>The silhouette should be in the center of the cell. Ideally the computed BRI should be on the chest. See <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Annotated_image#Minimum_width_for_crop?" title="Template talk:Annotated image">Template_talk:Annotated_image#Minimum_width_for_crop?</a> for a reported problem with cropping to narrow images. </p> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <p>Step 2, Reader enters own height, e.g. 160 cm. The silhouette gains some width, the computed BRI value changes, the background colour changes towards green. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395226"> </p> <table class="wikitable bmicalc calculatorgadget-enabled" style="float: right; margin-left:15px; text-align:center"> <caption>Calculator </caption> <tbody><tr> <td>Units</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-name="units">1</span> Metric <br/><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-imperial" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-name="units">0</span> Imperial </td></tr> <tr> <td>Height</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric2" data-calculator-type="checkbox" style="display:none" data-calculator-formula="metric">1</span><span class="ifmetric"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightcm" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="(heightfeet*12*2.54+heightinches*2.54)" data-calculator-size="3">160</span> cm</span><span class="ifimperial"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightfeet" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightcm/(12*2.54))" data-calculator-size="2">5</span> feet <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightinches" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="(heightcm/(2.54)-12*floor(heightcm/(12*2.54)))" data-calculator-size="3" data-calculator-max="11" data-calculator-min="0">10.078740157480311</span> in</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Waist</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric1" data-calculator-type="checkbox" style="display:none" data-calculator-formula="metric">1</span><span class="ifmetric"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistcm" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waistinch*2.54" data-calculator-size="3">80</span> cm</span><span class="ifimperial"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistinch" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waistcm/2.54" data-calculator-size="3">31.496062992125985</span> in</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td>BRI </td> <td style="background-color: #EBFF7F;"><div class=""> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -150px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div> <b><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-brimetric" data-calculator-type="plain" style="min-width:3ch;display:inline-block" data-calculator-formula="ifzero(imperial,(364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waistcm/6.28318,2)/pow(0.5×heightcm,2)),0.5)),(364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waistinch/2.4737,2)/pow(0.5×(heightfeet*30.48+heightinches*2.54),2)),0.5)))" data-calculator-decimals="2" data-calculator-nan-text=" ">3.36</span></b> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <p>Step 3, Reader enters own waist, e.g. 116 cm. The silhouette changes to an overweight silhouette. The background colour changes to a warning colour. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395226"> </p> <table class="wikitable bmicalc calculatorgadget-enabled" style="float: right; margin-left:15px; text-align:center"> <caption>Calculator </caption> <tbody><tr> <td>Units</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-name="units">1</span> Metric <br/><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-imperial" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-name="units">0</span> Imperial </td></tr> <tr> <td>Height</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric2" data-calculator-type="checkbox" style="display:none" data-calculator-formula="metric">1</span><span class="ifmetric"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightcm" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="(heightfeet*12*2.54+heightinches*2.54)" data-calculator-size="3">160</span> cm</span><span class="ifimperial"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightfeet" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightcm/(12*2.54))" data-calculator-size="2">5</span> feet <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightinches" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="(heightcm/(2.54)-12*floor(heightcm/(12*2.54)))" data-calculator-size="3" data-calculator-max="11" data-calculator-min="0">10.078740157480311</span> in</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Waist</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric1" data-calculator-type="checkbox" style="display:none" data-calculator-formula="metric">1</span><span class="ifmetric"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistcm" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waistinch*2.54" data-calculator-size="3">116</span> cm</span><span class="ifimperial"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistinch" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waistcm/2.54" data-calculator-size="3">31.496062992125985</span> in</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td>BRI </td> <td style="background-color: #ffCC00;"> <div class=""> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -400px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div> <p><b><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-brimetric" data-calculator-type="plain" style="min-width:3ch;display:inline-block" data-calculator-formula="ifzero(imperial,(364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waistcm/6.28318,2)/pow(0.5×heightcm,2)),0.5)),(364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waistinch/2.4737,2)/pow(0.5×(heightfeet*30.48+heightinches*2.54),2)),0.5)))" data-calculator-decimals="2" data-calculator-nan-text=" ">8.57</span></b> </p> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <p>Step 4, Reader plays with waist size. What should my waist be to be green, healthy? A waist of 93cm shows a healthy silhouette in green. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395226"> </p> <table class="wikitable bmicalc calculatorgadget-enabled" style="float: right; margin-left:15px; text-align:center"> <caption>Calculator </caption> <tbody><tr> <td>Units</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-name="units">1</span> Metric <br/><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-imperial" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-name="units">0</span> Imperial </td></tr> <tr> <td>Height</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric2" data-calculator-type="checkbox" style="display:none" data-calculator-formula="metric">1</span><span class="ifmetric"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightcm" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="(heightfeet*12*2.54+heightinches*2.54)" data-calculator-size="3">160</span> cm</span><span class="ifimperial"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightfeet" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightcm/(12*2.54))" data-calculator-size="2">5</span> feet <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightinches" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="(heightcm/(2.54)-12*floor(heightcm/(12*2.54)))" data-calculator-size="3" data-calculator-max="11" data-calculator-min="0">10.078740157480311</span> in</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td>Waist</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-metric1" data-calculator-type="checkbox" style="display:none" data-calculator-formula="metric">1</span><span class="ifmetric"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistcm" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waistinch*2.54" data-calculator-size="3">93</span> cm</span><span class="ifimperial"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistinch" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waistcm/2.54" data-calculator-size="3">31.496062992125985</span> in</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td>BRI </td> <td style="background-color: #80FF7F;"> <div class=""> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -250px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div> <p><b><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-brimetric" data-calculator-type="plain" style="min-width:3ch;display:inline-block" data-calculator-formula="ifzero(imperial,(364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waistcm/6.28318,2)/pow(0.5×heightcm,2)),0.5)),(364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waistinch/2.4737,2)/pow(0.5×(heightfeet*30.48+heightinches*2.54),2)),0.5)))" data-calculator-decimals="2" data-calculator-nan-text=" ">5.01</span></b> </p> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <p>Step 5, Reader takes action in real life to bring down waist size down from 116 to 93cm. Wikipedia has helped to improve the health of a reader. Good! </p><p>Colours, BRI value ranges and the silhouette are still work in progress, so please do not change the calculator yet. What you could do to help with your technical skills: </p> <ol><li>Put choices Metric and Imperial below each other, left aligned. It will read faster, in one eye fixation. Also it will suit the silhouettes better.</li> <li>How to get the silhouette in the center, above the BRI number?</li> <li>Have a look at <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Annotated_image#Minimum_width_for_crop?" title="Template talk:Annotated image">Template_talk:Annotated_image#Minimum_width_for_crop?</a> I am not sure if a BRI number with 2 decimals will look nice on the chest of lean silhouettes, but it's still good to fix a bug.</li> <li>Check <a href="/wiki/Talk:Body_roundness_index#c-Cmglee-20241009215100-Update_2" title="Talk:Body roundness index"> the proportions of the silhouettes</a>. They look OK to me and I do trust <a href="/wiki/User:Cmglee" title="User:Cmglee">user:Cmglee</a>'s computations, but just check to be sure.</li> <li>Define BRI colours in constants, e.g. BRI1 to BRI20, so there is one set of colours for <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Body_roundness_index_graph.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Body_roundness_index_graph.svg/60px-Body_roundness_index_graph.svg.png" decoding="async" width="60" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Body_roundness_index_graph.svg/90px-Body_roundness_index_graph.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Body_roundness_index_graph.svg/120px-Body_roundness_index_graph.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="256"/></a></span>, the calculator, the <a href="/wiki/Body_roundness_index#Range_of_body_roundness" title="Body roundness index"> 'graph' in BRI article</a> and possible other future uses in the future such as articles in other languages</li> <li>Just a nice to have: intermediate colours for the calculator, e.g. a computed colour code for BRI values 1.62, 1.71, 1.85 somewhere between the fixed colours of BRI1 and BRI2. The calculator could show subtle colour changes for every cm change of waist.</li></ol> <p><a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241013092500-Body_roundness_index" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:25, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241013092500-Body_roundness_index"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241013092500-Body_roundness_index"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241013161300-Uwappa-20241013092500"></span>Wow, amazing... <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241013161300-Uwappa-20241013092500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:13, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241013161300-Uwappa-20241013092500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241013161300-Uwappa-20241013092500"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241016182400-Doc_James-20241013161300"></span>Thank you. Please assist with the programming at: <a href="/wiki/Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox" title="Template:Body roundness index/sandbox">Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241016182400-Doc_James-20241013161300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:24, 16 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241016182400-Doc_James-20241013161300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241016182400-Doc_James-20241013161300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241016212000-Uwappa-20241016182400"></span>Currently travelling. What is the top ask that is left to be completed? <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241016212000-Uwappa-20241016182400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 16 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241016212000-Uwappa-20241016182400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241016212000-Uwappa-20241016182400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241017062400-Doc_James-20241016212000"></span>Just one question left:</dd> <dd>How to show only one of 20 silhouettes, based on variable <a href="/wiki/Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox#calculator-field-roundedBoundedBri" title="Template:Body roundness index/sandbox"> roundedBoundedBRI</a>?</dd> <dd>Current path, almost there: have 20 BRI row, show only one row, based on roundedBoundedBRI.</dd> <dd>I did try an alternative which failed: dynamically 'compute' a CSS class for just one row with 20 cropped images, e.g. formula = 'bri' + roundedBoundedBRI resulting in CSS class values like 'bri1', 'bri2', ... 'bri20'. Such CSS classes could take care of the background colour and showing only one cropped image in just one row. That idea did not work as I was unable to concatenate strings and don't know how such a dynamic string value could end up in a class= parameter.</dd> <dd>Enjoy your trip! <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241017062400-Doc_James-20241016212000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:24, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241017062400-Doc_James-20241016212000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241017062400-Doc_James-20241016212000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241017170200-Uwappa-20241017062400"></span>Will see if Brian has solutions... <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241017170200-Uwappa-20241017062400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241017170200-Uwappa-20241017062400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241017170200-Uwappa-20241017062400"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241017165800-Doc_James-20241016212000"></span>And... found a solution after working on the calculator documentation, hoping that it would yield a new idea. And yes, it did! <ol><li>Use 20 hidden checkboxes for roundedBoundedBri values 1 to 20.</li> <li>Dynamically check only one of them using ifequal in formulas. <a href="/wiki/Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox" title="Template:Body roundness index/sandbox">See it working in the sandbox</a>.</li> <li>todo, last hurdle: show only one BRI row using CSS, similar to what you already did with unit radio buttons. I've asked <a href="/wiki/User:Cmglee" title="User:Cmglee">user:cmglee</a> to do that last bit as my CSS skills are a bit rusty and slow.</li></ol></dd> <dd>This is very good news. We now can have the same type of calculator for <a href="/wiki/BMI" class="mw-disambig" title="BMI">BMI</a> and <a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio" title="Waist-to-height ratio">Waist-to-height_ratio</a>.</dd> <dd>Some questions that require medical knowledge: <ul><li>Is Waist-to-height_ratio actually the same thing as BRI, just a different scale? I would say yes, see <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png/37px-Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png" decoding="async" width="37" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png/55px-Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png/73px-Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png 2x" data-file-width="1115" data-file-height="918"/></a></span> and a range of WHtR versus BRI values at <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png#fileinfotpl_desc" class="extiw" title="c:File:Waist-height ratio versus body roundness index.png">c:File:Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png#fileinfotpl_desc</a>.</li> <li>Should we have one calculator that computes both BRI and waist-to-height-ratio?</li> <li>Should BRI and waist-to-height ratio be combined to just one article, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Body_roundness&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Body roundness (page does not exist)">body roundness</a>?</li></ul></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241017165800-Doc_James-20241016212000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:58, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241017165800-Doc_James-20241016212000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241017165800-Doc_James-20241016212000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241017170800-Uwappa-20241017165800"></span>BRI and Waist to height take the same values so yes similar. But I think deserve separate pages though there could be a short overview pages. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241017170800-Uwappa-20241017165800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241017170800-Uwappa-20241017165800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241017170800-Uwappa-20241017165800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241018164300-Doc_James-20241017170800"></span>OK, yes we could have a short overview page called <a href="/w/index.php?title=Body_roundness&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Body roundness (page does not exist)">Body roundness</a> with units <a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio" title="Waist-to-height ratio">WHtR</a> and <a href="/wiki/Body_roundness_index" title="Body roundness index">BRI</a>, similar to <a href="/wiki/Length" title="Length">length</a> with units <a href="/wiki/Km" class="mw-redirect" title="Km">km</a> and <a href="/wiki/Mile" title="Mile">mile</a>.</dd> <dd>Good news: BRI Calculator 2.0 is working, after a lot of debugging.</dd> <dd>The :checked pseudo class was new to me. Rearranged CSS statements so the effect of the :checked is a bit easier to understand.</dd> <dd>Please test it at <a href="/wiki/Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox" title="Template:Body roundness index/sandbox">Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox</a> Are the wikitext and CSS understandable? Is this calculator 2.0 good to go live? <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241018164300-Doc_James-20241017170800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241018164300-Doc_James-20241017170800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241018164300-Doc_James-20241017170800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241018235400-Uwappa-20241018164300"></span>Looks excellent. Should we bold the BRI result? <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241018235400-Uwappa-20241018164300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 18 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241018235400-Uwappa-20241018164300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241018235400-Uwappa-20241018164300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Zefr-20241019000700-Doc_James-20241018235400"></span>Can the silhouette be centered? For users who do not have the gadget setting, how do we inform people to see the calculator? <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zefr" title="User talk:Zefr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Zefr-20241019000700-Doc_James-20241018235400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Zefr-20241019000700-Doc_James-20241018235400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Zefr-20241019000700-Doc_James-20241018235400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241019001600-Zefr-20241019000700"></span>Gadget is on by default so all should be able to see it now. Will ask Brian if he can centre the silhouette. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241019001600-Zefr-20241019000700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:16, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241019001600-Zefr-20241019000700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241019001600-Zefr-20241019000700"></span></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241019085200-Doc_James-20241018235400"></span>Thank you for the compliment. The result looks just too easy, but it was quite a struggle. <ul><li>Suggestion: move calculator discussions to <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index" title="Template talk:Body roundness index">Template_talk:Body_roundness_index</a></li> <li>Suggestion: move BRI discussions to <a href="/wiki/Talk:Body_roundness_index" title="Talk:Body roundness index">Talk:Body_roundness_index</a></li></ul></dd> <dd>So, out of place here, but still a reply with links to previous discussions: <ul><li>How to inform people to see the calculator? See <a href="/wiki/Template:Calculator#Fallback" title="Template:Calculator">Template:Calculator#Fallback</a>. I have just added such a fallback, with <a href="/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-input-wpgadget-Calculator" title="Special:Preferences">a link to the calculator check box in preferences</a>.</li> <li>The calculator now does more than computing BRI. The silhouette shows the concept of 'body roundness'. It is no longer just a 'BRI calculator', hence the changed table caption, now 'Body roundness'. The calculator could <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Compute_waist_to_height_ratio?" title="Template talk:Body roundness index"> also show WHtR as suggested on BRI talk page</a>. <a href="/wiki/WHtR" class="mw-redirect" title="WHtR">WHtR</a> could also show the roundness calculator as could the future <a href="/w/index.php?title=Body_roundness&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Body roundness (page does not exist)">Body roundness</a>.</li> <li>The BRI result was bold and I took that out, use the same font weight as other variables. Let the silhouette be the 'roundness star' here.</li></ul> <dl><dd>BRI without a classification is just a meaningless number. Does <a href="/wiki/10_(1979_film)" title="10 (1979 film)">10 mean a perfect body shape</a>? No it does not! The silhouette does a good job of showing BRI in a meaningful way.</dd> <dd>The background colour shows some kind of implicit classification. I am not sure it is the right one, see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Body_roundness_index#BRI_categories" title="Talk:Body roundness index">Talk:Body_roundness_index#BRI_categories</a>. Question to medics: Are there WHtR classifications we can reuse for BRI? See <a href="/wiki/Talk:Body_roundness_index#Waist_to_height_classifications_=_BRI_classifications?" title="Talk:Body roundness index">Talk:Body_roundness_index#Waist_to_height_classifications_=_BRI_classifications?</a></dd></dl> <ul><li>I have tried a centered version of the silhouette and did not like it. It as out of line with other variable info. Please keep the silhouette left aligned, consistent with other variable info, close to the field prompt. I've tweaked the cropping so the silhouette is above the BRI value, both for BRI values below and above 10.</li></ul></dd> <dd>Suggestion: Go live with the calculator. It is working, good to go and a giant leap forward compared to the current version.</dd> <dd>I expect few if any, reactions from other editors. BRI seems to be a subject that is for medical specialists only, like <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">user:Zefr</a>. And for the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index" title="Template talk:Body roundness index">roundness calculator talk the crowd is well eh... very small</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241019085200-Doc_James-20241018235400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241019085200-Doc_James-20241018235400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241019085200-Doc_James-20241018235400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241020085600-Body_roundness_index"></span>Calculator 2.0 is live. </p><p>Calculator 3.0 is work in progress, see <a href="/wiki/Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox" title="Template:Body roundness index/sandbox">Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox</a> </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241020085600-Body_roundness_index" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:56, 20 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241020085600-Body_roundness_index"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241020085600-Body_roundness_index"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241024000300-Uwappa-20241020085600"></span>Very nice Uwappa. Let me know if you need help with anything further. Will be traveling in the mountains for next few weeks so access / time is limited. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241024000300-Uwappa-20241020085600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241024000300-Uwappa-20241020085600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241024000300-Uwappa-20241020085600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241024042400-Doc_James-20241024000300"></span>Smile... You are welcome.</dd> <dd>My math and programming skills are a bit rusty, so a second brain is welcome. See <a href="/wiki/Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox#To_do" title="Template:Body roundness index/sandbox">the current TODO list for roundness calculator 4.0</a> for an up to date list of things where your help would be great. The most urgent ones: <ol><li>Check formula of field 'silhouette'. Is that the right formula to go from WHtR to a 1-20 index to crop the right silhouette out of <a href="/wiki/User:Cmglee" title="User:Cmglee">user:Cmglee</a>'s <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/240px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="240" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/360px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/480px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span>? Values 1 to 18 are the most important, as those match real people who participated in research. Values below 1 and above 20 are the <a href="/wiki/Long_tail" title="Long tail">long tail</a>, not relevant for the calculator silhouettes. The silhouettes <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/240px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="240" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/360px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/de/Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg/480px-Body_roundness_index_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span> have height and waist diameter, measured for instance in pixels. Using waist in pixels = diameter in pixels * pi and height in pixels, it must be possible to check the WHtR->silhouette index formula. Does the formula produce the right number 1..18?</li> <li>How to go from WHtR to a health related background colour? I previously based the colours on on BRI mortality, the blue line in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11154161/figure/zoi240504f2/">Xiaoqian Zhang's figure 2</a>. All I need for the WHtR based version 4.0 is some key colour names linked to some key WHtR values, like what <a href="/wiki/User:JMF" title="User:JMF">user:JMF</a> did for the BRI based version. I'll take it from there, come up with hex colour codes and the intermediate gradients.</li> <li>What is a health risk level text for a WHtR below 0.4? See <a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#Suggested_boundary_values" title="Waist-to-height ratio">Waist-to-height_ratio#Suggested_boundary_values</a> for texts published by NICE.</li></ol></dd> <dd>Other, non urgent issues, but with an impact greater than a silhouette in a Wikipedia roundness calculator: <ul><li>More math, pretty serious in the real world outside Wikipedia: I do not trust the pi bit in <span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-display mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" display="block" alttext="{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>BRI</mtext> </mrow> <mo>=</mo> <mn>364.2</mn> <mo>−</mo> <mn>365.5</mn> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <msqrt> <mn>1</mn> <mo>−</mo> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mo maxsize="1.623em" minsize="1.623em">(</mo> </mrow> </mrow> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mtext>waist</mtext> <mrow> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mi>π</mi> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mo>×</mo> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thinmathspace"></mspace> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>height</mtext> </mrow> </mrow> </mfrac> </mrow> <msup> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mo maxsize="1.623em" minsize="1.623em">)</mo> </mrow> </mrow> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mn>2</mn> </mrow> </msup> </msqrt> </mrow> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/4d70d2029f9d4f30dff55ecf0f7c26e228eccee9" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-display mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -3.338ex; width:45.837ex; height:7.676ex;" alt="{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}"/></span> That is fine to go from <a href="/wiki/Circumference" title="Circumference">Circumference</a> to <a href="/wiki/Diameter" title="Diameter">Diameter</a> required for an the width of a vertical ellipse surrounding a person. The pi bit only works accurate for waists that are perfect (horizontal) circles. I expect most waists to be shapes like an ellipse or an egg.</li> <li>How to explain to somebody with limited math skills that WHtR and BRI are related? At the moment I have encountered only 1 person who does not seem to understand the following:</li></ul> <dl><dd>Combine</dd></dl></dd> <dd><span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-display mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" display="block" alttext="{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>BRI</mtext> </mrow> <mo>=</mo> <mn>364.2</mn> <mo>−</mo> <mn>365.5</mn> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <msqrt> <mn>1</mn> <mo>−</mo> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mo maxsize="1.623em" minsize="1.623em">(</mo> </mrow> </mrow> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mtext>waist</mtext> <mrow> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mi>π</mi> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mo>×</mo> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thinmathspace"></mspace> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>height</mtext> </mrow> </mrow> </mfrac> </mrow> <msup> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mo maxsize="1.623em" minsize="1.623em">)</mo> </mrow> </mrow> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mn>2</mn> </mrow> </msup> </msqrt> </mrow> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/4d70d2029f9d4f30dff55ecf0f7c26e228eccee9" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-display mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -3.338ex; width:45.837ex; height:7.676ex;" alt="{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}"/></span> <dl><dd>with</dd></dl></dd> <dd><span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-display mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" display="block" alttext="{\displaystyle {\text{WHtR}}={\frac {\text{waist}}{\text{height}}}}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>WHtR</mtext> </mrow> <mo>=</mo> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mtext>waist</mtext> <mtext>height</mtext> </mfrac> </mrow> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle {\text{WHtR}}={\frac {\text{waist}}{\text{height}}}}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/0dfbe94aadfedb04ef886e3a2e3f7ae0bbd76402" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-display mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -2.338ex; width:17.013ex; height:5.676ex;" alt="{\displaystyle {\text{WHtR}}={\frac {\text{waist}}{\text{height}}}}"/></span> <dl><dd>to get</dd></dl></dd> <dd><span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-display mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" display="block" alttext="{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{WHtR}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\,}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>BRI</mtext> </mrow> <mo>=</mo> <mn>364.2</mn> <mo>−</mo> <mn>365.5</mn> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <msqrt> <mn>1</mn> <mo>−</mo> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mo maxsize="1.623em" minsize="1.623em">(</mo> </mrow> </mrow> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mtext>WHtR</mtext> <mrow> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mi>π</mi> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thinmathspace"></mspace> </mrow> </mfrac> </mrow> <msup> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mo maxsize="1.623em" minsize="1.623em">)</mo> </mrow> </mrow> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mn>2</mn> </mrow> </msup> </msqrt> </mrow> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{WHtR}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\,}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/b8cc5fa75eda3e2d1628ed35352939af6c3c2c0d" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-display mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -2.338ex; width:38.468ex; height:6.176ex;" alt="{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{WHtR}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\,}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}"/></span></dd> <dd><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256395226"></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="calculatorgadget-fallback">Please select in your preferences: <a href="/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-input-wpgadget-Calculator" title="Special:Preferences">Enables javascript Calculator template</a> to see a working calculator.</div> <table class="bmicalc calculatorgadget-enabled" style="display:none; float: right; margin-left:15px;"> <caption><a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio" title="Waist-to-height ratio">WHtR</a> to <a href="/wiki/Body_roundness_index" title="Body roundness index">BRI converter</a> <figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/512px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="512" height="64" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/768px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1024px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> </caption> <tbody><tr> <td colspan="2"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png/600px-Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png" decoding="async" width="600" height="494" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png/900px-Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png 2x" data-file-width="1115" data-file-height="918"/></a></span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt">pi = <span class="texhtml mvar" style="font-style:italic;">π</span> </td> <td>3.141592653589793 </td></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt"><span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-inline mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" alttext="{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>BRI</mtext> </mrow> <mo>=</mo> <mn>364.2</mn> <mo>−</mo> <mn>365.5</mn> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <msqrt> <mn>1</mn> <mo>−</mo> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mo maxsize="1.623em" minsize="1.623em">(</mo> </mrow> </mrow> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mtext>waist</mtext> <mrow> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mi>π</mi> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mo>×</mo> <mspace width="thickmathspace"></mspace> <mspace width="thinmathspace"></mspace> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>height</mtext> </mrow> </mrow> </mfrac> </mrow> <msup> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mo maxsize="1.623em" minsize="1.623em">)</mo> </mrow> </mrow> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mn>2</mn> </mrow> </msup> </msqrt> </mrow> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/4d70d2029f9d4f30dff55ecf0f7c26e228eccee9" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-inline mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -3.338ex; width:45.837ex; height:7.676ex;" alt="{\displaystyle {\text{BRI}}=364.2-365.5{\sqrt {1-{\Big (}{\frac {\text{waist}}{\;\;\pi \;\;\times \;\,{\text{height}}}}{\Big )}^{2}}}}"/></span> </td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-whtrToBri" data-calculator-type="plain" style="min-width:3ch;display:inline-block" data-calculator-formula="364.2-365.5×pow(1-(pow(waist/6.28318,2)/pow(0.5×height,2)),0.5)" data-calculator-nan-text="Please come back after birth">3.3588109427631707</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt"><span class="mwe-math-element"><span class="mwe-math-mathml-inline mwe-math-mathml-a11y" style="display: none;"><math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" alttext="{\displaystyle {\text{WHtR}}={\frac {\text{waist}}{\text{height}}}}"> <semantics> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mstyle displaystyle="true" scriptlevel="0"> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mtext>WHtR</mtext> </mrow> <mo>=</mo> <mrow class="MJX-TeXAtom-ORD"> <mfrac> <mtext>waist</mtext> <mtext>height</mtext> </mfrac> </mrow> </mstyle> </mrow> <annotation encoding="application/x-tex">{\displaystyle {\text{WHtR}}={\frac {\text{waist}}{\text{height}}}}</annotation> </semantics> </math></span><img src="https://wikimedia.org/api/rest_v1/media/math/render/svg/0dfbe94aadfedb04ef886e3a2e3f7ae0bbd76402" class="mwe-math-fallback-image-inline mw-invert skin-invert" aria-hidden="true" style="vertical-align: -2.338ex; width:17.013ex; height:5.676ex;" alt="{\displaystyle {\text{WHtR}}={\frac {\text{waist}}{\text{height}}}}"/></span> </td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-whtr" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waist/height" data-calculator-size="18" data-calculator-max="1.5" data-calculator-min="0.1" data-calculator-step="0.005">0.5</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt">Waist</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waist" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="pi*whtr" data-calculator-size="18">80</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt">Waist diameter = Waist / pi </td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistdiameter" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="waist/pi" data-calculator-size="18" data-calculator-min="1">25.464790894703256</span> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt">Height</td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-height" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-size="18" data-calculator-min="1">160</span> </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>resulting into a direct relation <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png/122px-Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png" decoding="async" width="122" height="100" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png/182px-Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png/243px-Waist-height_ratio_versus_body_roundness_index.png 2x" data-file-width="1115" data-file-height="918"/></a></span></dd> <dd>To my utter amazement an attempt using a WHtR BRI converter, was not successful:</dd> <dd>Now, just one Wikpedian who has some math difficulties does not worry me much. What does worry me is that medics may fail to understand this basic math and that the whole concept of BRI is a waste of effort as <a href="/wiki/WHtR" class="mw-redirect" title="WHtR">WHtR</a> is a superior, just too easy alternative.</dd> <dd>Limited math skills can not have been the problem for <a href="/wiki/Diana_Thomas_(mathematician)" title="Diana Thomas (mathematician)">Diana_Thomas_(mathematician)</a>. She must understand the WHtR rectangle versus the BRI ellipse in <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg/50px-Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="100" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg/75px-Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg/100px-Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="1024"/></a></span>.</dd> <dd>Yet I get the awkward impression that she got lost deep <a href="/wiki/Down_the_rabbit_hole" title="Down the rabbit hole">down a rabbit hole called BRI</a>, guided by great math skills, but <a href="/wiki/Four_stages_of_competence#Stages" title="Four stages of competence">blisfully unaware</a> of BRI's older sibling called <a href="/wiki/WHtR" class="mw-redirect" title="WHtR">WHtR</a>.</dd></dl> <ul><li>Have a look at <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Calculator" title="Template talk:Calculator">Template_talk:Calculator</a> when you are out of the woods.</li></ul></dd> <dd><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241024042400-Doc_James-20241024000300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:24, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241024042400-Doc_James-20241024000300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241024042400-Doc_James-20241024000300"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-JMF-20241024111900-Uwappa-20241020085600"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a>:</span>, I don't think you should take any more of Doc James's time on this. While recognising your good faith, I think maybe your summary is a bit off. No-one disputes the fact that there is a simple arithmetical relationship between WHtR and BRI and thus (per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:2%2B2%3D4" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:2+2=4">WP:2+2=4</a>) your conversion is not OR. The challenge is that you are, no doubt unwittingly, giving the impression that <i>the BRI concept</i> has MEDRS support and that is a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SYNTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SYNTH">WP:SYNTH</a> leap that we must not make. That is why <a href="/wiki/User:Zefr" title="User:Zefr">Zefr</a> and I are advising you to park it pending significant acceptance of BRI among MEDRS. Which, IMO, will never happen since the WHtR guidelines are already advocated by at least the British and Canadian authorities because they are trivially easy for medics to explain and patients to check, without recourse to calculators and graduated tapes. --<a href="/wiki/User:JMF" title="User:JMF">𝕁𝕄𝔽</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JMF" title="User talk:JMF">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-JMF-20241024111900-Uwappa-20241020085600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:19, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-JMF-20241024111900-Uwappa-20241020085600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-JMF-20241024111900-Uwappa-20241020085600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241024114700-JMF-20241024111900"></span>Did you see I was replying to Doc James's: <a href="#c-Doc_James-20241024000300-Uwappa-20241020085600">Let me know if you need help with anything further</a>?Please allow him to manage his own time.</dd> <dd>I give the impression that the BRI concept has MEDRS support? Really? How?</dd> <dd>To me BRI is a redundant concept. A piece of string suffices for a WHtR health check. Can't beat that. <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241024114700-JMF-20241024111900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:47, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241024114700-JMF-20241024111900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241024114700-JMF-20241024111900"></span></dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Merge" data-mw-thread-id="h-Merge-20241013164100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Merge-20241013164100"></span>Merge<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Merge-20241013164100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Merge"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Polygnotus-20241013164100-Merge"></span>Hello! Should <a href="/wiki/Unstable_DNA_sequence" title="Unstable DNA sequence">Unstable DNA sequence</a> be merged into <a href="/wiki/Genome_instability" title="Genome instability">Genome instability</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Polygnotus" title="User:Polygnotus">Polygnotus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus" title="User talk:Polygnotus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Polygnotus-20241013164100-Merge" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Polygnotus-20241013164100-Merge"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Polygnotus-20241013164100-Merge"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241013180100-Polygnotus-20241013164100"></span>Not sure... <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241013180100-Polygnotus-20241013164100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241013180100-Polygnotus-20241013164100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241013180100-Polygnotus-20241013164100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Polygnotus-20241013181400-Doc_James-20241013180100"></span>Thank you. Perhaps a redirect would be better? I dunno, its pretty far outside my wheelhouse. Also, have you seen <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse#Medical_article_creation_for_students_-_Topic_selection_and_audience_level" title="Wikipedia:Teahouse">Wikipedia:Teahouse#Medical_article_creation_for_students_-_Topic_selection_and_audience_level</a>? They are setting these students up to fail because they get assigned topics that already have an article. 4 people including myself have tried to explain that writing MEDRS articles is not a good beginner task. Perhaps you can help? I still have nightmares from the time I cleaned up after a WikiEdu course. <a href="/wiki/User:Polygnotus" title="User:Polygnotus">Polygnotus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus" title="User talk:Polygnotus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Polygnotus-20241013181400-Doc_James-20241013180100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:14, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Polygnotus-20241013181400-Doc_James-20241013180100"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Polygnotus-20241013181400-Doc_James-20241013180100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241013190800-Polygnotus-20241013181400"></span>Mostly over at <a href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page" class="extiw" title="mdwiki:Main Page">mdwiki:Main Page</a> in part as EN WP is not supportive / actively prevents the development of multilingual content.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/MdWikiBot">[2]</a> We have managed to rebuild the workflow without EN WP though.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://mdwiki.toolforge.org/Translation_Dashboard/leaderboard.php">[3]</a> Agree that use of AI would be a concern. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241013190800-Polygnotus-20241013181400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:08, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241013190800-Polygnotus-20241013181400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241013190800-Polygnotus-20241013181400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Polygnotus-20241013194400-Doc_James-20241013190800"></span>You know a lot about medicine, I (unfortunately) have spent an unhealthy amount of time on a computer. I put my trust in a doctor, you put your trust in a nerd. I understand feeling discouraged, and you obviously trust the person who said the only option was to <a href="/wiki/Fork_(software_development)" title="Fork (software development)">fork</a>, but as a nerd I have to say that that decision didn't make much sense, although I <i>do</i> understand the emotion surrounding it. Sometimes people get stuck, having one solution to a problem in mind, and then when that one solution doesn't work out they get really discouraged and see no other option than to leave. But usually there are many solutions to a problem. In this case the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/MdWikiBot" title="Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/MdWikiBot">BRfA</a> was doomed to fail, and it was silly to even attempt it, but that didn't actually matter because there were other (better) ways to achieve your goals. A "my way or the highway"-mentality rarely works out well on Wikipedia. Since that was apparently <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Primefac/Archive_47#Automated_tool" title="User talk:Primefac/Archive 47">not their only mistake</a> it may be wise to reconsider how much trust you put in which person. <a href="/wiki/User:Polygnotus" title="User:Polygnotus">Polygnotus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus" title="User talk:Polygnotus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Polygnotus-20241013194400-Doc_James-20241013190800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Polygnotus-20241013194400-Doc_James-20241013190800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Polygnotus-20241013194400-Doc_James-20241013190800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241013202900-Polygnotus-20241013194400"></span>That was just one among many reasons. I have made nearly 50,000 edits to MDWiki since mostly moving their 4 years back. I find I am now much more productive.</dd> <dd>Plus those who understand English have tons of excellent medical resources to choose from. Those who do not have few or none. As a global public health effort I prefer to concentrate on the later. By the way always happy to have more good faith collaborators their :-) <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241013202900-Polygnotus-20241013194400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:29, 13 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241013202900-Polygnotus-20241013194400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241013202900-Polygnotus-20241013194400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Polygnotus-20241014050700-Doc_James-20241013202900"></span>Well, I hope you forgive me for not doing a deep dive into <i>all</i> the reasons. <abbr title="Grinning face" style="border-bottom: none;"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Face-grin.svg/18px-Face-grin.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Face-grin.svg/27px-Face-grin.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bc/Face-grin.svg/36px-Face-grin.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></span></span></abbr> I just think that particular one is not strong. I was impressed by the amount of work that has been done on mdwiki. I understand English (on a good day) but not medicine. <a href="/wiki/User:Polygnotus" title="User:Polygnotus">Polygnotus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Polygnotus" title="User talk:Polygnotus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Polygnotus-20241014050700-Doc_James-20241013202900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:07, 14 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Polygnotus-20241014050700-Doc_James-20241013202900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Polygnotus-20241014050700-Doc_James-20241013202900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241014053900-Polygnotus-20241014050700"></span>No worries. Yah classes of students are a LOT of work... I am around here a bit but try to stay out of controversies. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241014053900-Polygnotus-20241014050700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:39, 14 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241014053900-Polygnotus-20241014050700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241014053900-Polygnotus-20241014050700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023195000-Doc_James-20241014053900"></span>May I ask what led you to shift your effort to MDWiki instead of continuing with Wikipedia?<a href="/wiki/User:I_enjoy_sandwiches" title="User:I enjoy sandwiches">I enjoy sandwiches</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:I_enjoy_sandwiches" title="User talk:I enjoy sandwiches">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023195000-Doc_James-20241014053900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:50, 23 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023195000-Doc_James-20241014053900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023195000-Doc_James-20241014053900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241024015800-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023195000"></span>Sure, it was a few things: <ol><li>One of my interests is supporting the development of healthcare content in other languages. Those who read English have many great sources online; however, this is not the case for most other languages. EN WP is not supportive of translation in that a) some disagree with using easier to understand language in the lead b) some disagree with having references in the leads of articles c) EN WP does not even permit the use of workspaces on the site for translation d) the WMF is not interested in altering software to support translation of health content and without our own site we struggled to deal with a number of issues with references</li> <li>Many within EN WP were against the inclusion of video and drove away a number of partners we had with respect to video. I consider video to be of importance for those with a lower reading skill or simply a different way in which they wish to learn. We have thus keep <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/WikiProjectMed:VideoWiki">videowiki</a> going.</li> <li>Undisclosed paid editing is often passively and sometimes actively allowed to continue here. When an obvious paid sock a few years back brought a case to ANI they received support. When a realtor was using EN WP to write articles about buildings they were selling and threatened to cross the border to harm me, arbcom supported them. Thankfully I have a working relationship with my local police force who stated they would prevent them from crossing the border, at least for a time. Not interested in dealing with these sorts of issues.</li> <li>I consider the costs of healthcare to be of importance, including in areas of the world other than the United States when certain medications make the NYTs. Sources from the World Health Organization were deemed insufficient to support such discussion and arbcom has placed against me an editing restriction with respect to this. As such I generally do not edit healthcare content here.</li> <li>Before I split off I was spending much of my time reviewing other work, rather than writing / creating content myself. <a href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Topical_steroid_withdrawal" class="extiw" title="mdwiki:Topical steroid withdrawal">mdwiki:Topical steroid withdrawal</a> had a group of those with the condition altering the wording so that it was no longer supported by the references provided. An individual funded by pharma was trying to and has now succeeded in removing cardiac concerns with respect to a very expensive med.</li> <li>Some of my main collaborators left due to issues of incivility / paid editing. I also had an editor who followed me around to disrupt projects I was working on. They even attempted to follow me to MDWiki.</li> <li>Finally a few years back during some dark times I began to consider it prudent for us as a movement to have a fully editable version of Wikipedia nearly ready to go if things "went South". And for us to build community skills around running such a site. Currently MDWiki has about 7000 local articles and mirrors the other 7 million or so. It would not take much to pull in these mirrored articles and their histories. But thankfully those dark times have faded into history, at least for now.</li></ol></dd> <dd>Anyway it was a good move for me. I find I am much more productive. It allows me to working on tools like the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Mesenteric_ischemia#Diagnosis">CT scan viewer</a>, the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Template:Calculator">calculator tool</a>, the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/WikiProjectMed:OWID">OWID visualizer</a>, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://nccommons.org/wiki/Main_Page">NC Commons</a> without disruption. If versions of Wikipedia wish to collaborate and adopt these tools am happy to work with them. Additionally it does not tie my work to any specific language version. Happy to have more collaborators :-) <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241024015800-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023195000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:58, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241024015800-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023195000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241024015800-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023195000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025025700-Doc_James-20241024015800"></span>Phew. Thanks for explaining how some of the sausage is made. I've had several extremely similar situations over the years.</dd> <dd>Your concerns probably explain why so many medical specialties have created their own specialized wikis -- because of the difficulty that highly trained professionals encounter when trying to edit through the red tape here. If professionals are volunteering to edit, they're giving up extremely valuable free time. In situations like these, the most valuable editors get bullied off the site. It's unfortunate as I think the cross breeding of ideas that this place inspires is more effective the larger the audience. Ultimately it will come full circle as the specialized wikis merge, or their advertising or subscription fees become too expensive and the main Wikipedia's editing hurdles are worked out. This may not happen in our lifetimes.</dd> <dd>In the interim, I admire your grace under fire amidst the feeling of burn out. The interface between the general public, computer programmers and medical professionals on this site can certainly be awkward at times. I can only imagine the number of situations where people pulled you, willingly or not, into the crossfire.</dd> <dd>Having an outside "backup" of Wikipedia is an excellent idea in case it is ever privatized, falls under government censorship or is effectively infiltrated by outside interests.</dd> <dd>On a personal note, it's always a pleasure to write with you and it is remarkable how you leveraged this website to positively impact the lives of hundreds of millions, if not billions of people around the world. I will do my best to contribute to your efforts over there and hope you can spare some time back here at the general county mosh pit down the line. <a href="/wiki/User:I_enjoy_sandwiches" title="User:I enjoy sandwiches">I enjoy sandwiches</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:I_enjoy_sandwiches" title="User talk:I enjoy sandwiches">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025025700-Doc_James-20241024015800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:57, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025025700-Doc_James-20241024015800"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025025700-Doc_James-20241024015800"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241026023900-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025025700"></span>Another thing I discovered is that running a Wiki really does not cost that much... MDWiki has no fees and no adverts and is run by an NGO. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241026023900-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025025700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:39, 26 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241026023900-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025025700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241026023900-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025025700"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Norovirus#Vaccine_trials" data-mw-thread-id="h-Norovirus#Vaccine_trials-20241023170300"><span id="Norovirus.23Vaccine_trials"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Norovirus#Vaccine_trials-20241023170300"></span>Norovirus#Vaccine_trials<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Norovirus#Vaccine_trials-20241023170300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Norovirus#Vaccine_trials"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ShakespeareFan00-20241023170300-Norovirus#Vaccine_trials"></span>This needs updating. Do you have journal access in order to back up claimes being made in the UK media? </p><p><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/worlds-first-norovirus-vaccine-set-to-be-trialled-by-nhs-to-combat-winter-vomiti/">https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/worlds-first-norovirus-vaccine-set-to-be-trialled-by-nhs-to-combat-winter-vomiti/</a><br/> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/world-first-vaccine-for-vomiting-bug-norovirus-trialled-in-the-uk/ar-AA1sJTQ2">https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/world-first-vaccine-for-vomiting-bug-norovirus-trialled-in-the-uk/ar-AA1sJTQ2</a> </p><p>The claims seem to relate to Phase 3 trials in the United Kingdom. <a href="/wiki/User:ShakespeareFan00" title="User:ShakespeareFan00">ShakespeareFan00</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ShakespeareFan00" title="User talk:ShakespeareFan00">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-ShakespeareFan00-20241023170300-Norovirus#Vaccine_trials" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:03, 23 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ShakespeareFan00-20241023170300-Norovirus#Vaccine_trials"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ShakespeareFan00-20241023170300-Norovirus#Vaccine_trials"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241024075500-ShakespeareFan00-20241023170300"></span>I personally do not see the need for review articles to discuss this. The popular press IMO is just fine as one is just stating that a trial is about to begin, not making any medical claims <a href="https://mdwiki.org/wiki/Norovirus#Vaccines" class="extiw" title="mdwiki:Norovirus">mdwiki:Norovirus#Vaccines</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241024075500-ShakespeareFan00-20241023170300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:55, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241024075500-ShakespeareFan00-20241023170300"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241024075500-ShakespeareFan00-20241023170300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241024081400-Doc_James-20241024075500"></span>Found one review and it is under an open license. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241024081400-Doc_James-20241024075500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:14, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241024081400-Doc_James-20241024075500"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241024081400-Doc_James-20241024075500"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research" data-mw-thread-id="h-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research-20241023192200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research-20241023192200"></span>Invitation to participate in a research<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research-20241023192200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Invitation to participate in a research"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192200-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"></span>Hello, </p><p>The Wikimedia Foundation is conducting a survey of Wikipedians to better understand what draws administrators to contribute to Wikipedia, and what affects administrator retention. We will use this research to improve experiences for Wikipedians, and address common problems and needs. We have identified you as a good candidate for this research, and would greatly appreciate your participation in this <b><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.limesurvey.net/294789?lang=en">anonymous survey</a></b>. </p><p>You do not have to be an Administrator to participate. </p><p>The survey should take around 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Research:Wikipedia_Administrator_Recruitment,_Retention,_and_Attrition" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Research:Wikipedia Administrator Recruitment, Retention, and Attrition">Meta page</a> and view its <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Administrator_Experiences_2024_Survey_Privacy_Statement" class="extiw" title="wmf:Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Administrator Experiences 2024 Survey Privacy Statement">privacy statement</a> . </p><p>Please find our contact on the project Meta page if you have any questions or concerns. </p><p>Kind Regards, </p><p><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Research" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Research">WMF Research Team</a> </p><p><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/User:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User:BGerdemann (WMF)">BGerdemann (WMF)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User talk:BGerdemann (WMF)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192200-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:22, 23 October 2024 (UTC)</a> </bdi><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192200-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241023192200-Invitation_to_participate_in_a_research"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Uploading_images_to_Wikimedia_from_open_source_journal_articles" data-mw-thread-id="h-Uploading_images_to_Wikimedia_from_open_source_journal_articles-20241023194600"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Uploading_images_to_Wikimedia_from_open_source_journal_articles-20241023194600"></span>Uploading images to Wikimedia from open source journal articles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Uploading_images_to_Wikimedia_from_open_source_journal_articles-20241023194600"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Uploading images to Wikimedia from open source journal articles"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023194600-Uploading_images_to_Wikimedia_from_open_source_journal_articles"></span>Quick question about protocol for medical images -- are we allowed to upload images from open source scientific journals to Wikimedia? If so, is there anything we need to do beyond giving the article's reference in the description? <a href="/wiki/User:I_enjoy_sandwiches" title="User:I enjoy sandwiches">I enjoy sandwiches</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:I_enjoy_sandwiches" title="User talk:I enjoy sandwiches">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023194600-Uploading_images_to_Wikimedia_from_open_source_journal_articles" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 23 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023194600-Uploading_images_to_Wikimedia_from_open_source_journal_articles"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023194600-Uploading_images_to_Wikimedia_from_open_source_journal_articles"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241024000600-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023194600"></span>Yes we can as long as they are CC BY or CC BY SA. For NC and ND licensed images you can upload them here to <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://nccommons.org/wiki/Main_Page">NC Commons</a>. Nothing special from a pt consent POV as it is assumed that the journal itself takes care of that. Have been thinking of doing a mass upload at some point. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241024000600-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023194600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:06, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241024000600-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023194600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241024000600-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241023194600"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025024300-Doc_James-20241024000600"></span>Very helpful, thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:I_enjoy_sandwiches" title="User:I enjoy sandwiches">I enjoy sandwiches</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:I_enjoy_sandwiches" title="User talk:I enjoy sandwiches">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025024300-Doc_James-20241024000600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:43, 25 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025024300-Doc_James-20241024000600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-I_enjoy_sandwiches-20241025024300-Doc_James-20241024000600"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Top_100_medical_calculators" data-mw-thread-id="h-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241024074000"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241024074000"></span>Top 100 medical calculators<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241024074000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Top 100 medical calculators"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241024074000-Top_100_medical_calculators"></span>Copied from <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#waist_diameter" title="Template talk:Body roundness index">Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#waist_diameter</a>: </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Plan to do the top 100 medical calculators in December. Would love to have your help. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241024074000-Top_100_medical_calculators" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:40, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241024074000-Top_100_medical_calculators"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241024074000-Top_100_medical_calculators"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241024082000-Doc_James-20241024074000"></span>Ha ha ha, that would be a great honour! Happy to see you appreciate my design.</dd> <dd>Without any false modesty: I think the calculator design already outclasses the commercial version. The user interface looks so simple, but there is quite a bit of processing going on under the hood to get to the right silhouette and <a href="/wiki/Body_roundness_index#Calculation" title="Body roundness index">NICE health risk level</a> which <a href="/wiki/DIKW_pyramid" title="DIKW pyramid">adds meaning to data, numbers</a>.</dd> <dd>And... it will get even better as it does not deal yet with fine-tuning for male-female, age, ... differences.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Cmglee" title="User:Cmglee">user:Cmglee</a> is <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cmglee#woman_silhouette_for_BRI" title="User talk:Cmglee">already working on a female silhouette</a> to explain the <a href="/wiki/Body_roundness_index#Calculation" title="Body roundness index">BRI formula</a>. Work in progress: <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg/25px-Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg/37px-Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5e/Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg/50px-Comparison_body_measures_silhouette.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="1024"/></a></span></dd> <dd>Gender, age won't impact the WHtR and BRI computations but <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cmglee#c-Uwappa-20241024062100-Cmglee-20241022110500" title="User talk:Cmglee">will impact the user interface for gender</a></li> <li>will impact the health level text</li> <li>it will also impact the background color.</li></ul></dd> <dd>What would you like me to do? What can I do to help you? <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241024082000-Doc_James-20241024074000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:20, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241024082000-Doc_James-20241024074000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241024082000-Doc_James-20241024074000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241024082700-Uwappa-20241024082000"></span>Will let you know when I am back and working on it. We need a eGFR calculator, we need one to switch between America and IU for blood sugar, etc, etc. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241024082700-Uwappa-20241024082000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:27, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241024082700-Uwappa-20241024082000"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241024082700-Uwappa-20241024082000"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><sup class="noprint Inline-Template" style="white-space:nowrap;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241024093600-Top_100_medical_calculators"></span>[<i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Accuracy_dispute#Disputed_statement" title="Wikipedia:Accuracy dispute"><span title="The material near this tag is possibly inaccurate or nonfactual.">dubious</span></a> – <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#Dubious">discuss</a></i>]</sup> </p><p>Good. Be warned: my medical knowledge is limited, almost non existent. I have very limited experience in working with medics. </p><p>You already lost me with terms as eGFR, IU. I've heard about blood sugar, but don't know much about it. So I will need a lot of input for medical terms, formulas, translations from jargon to plain language, etc, etc. </p><p>Be aware that design takes time, sweet time. It is hard to design simple things. Something easy like a body roundness calculator can take weeks, for just two input variables. And that is when I have time to spare. </p><p>What can be done quite fast: evaluate a current design. </p> <ul><li>What is good about it?</li> <li>How can it be improved?</li></ul> <p>Warning: I apply function psychology in my designs, </p> <ul><li>the way humans process information dictates the design. No room to discuss the information processing cycle: observe, interpret, learn, think, act and back to observe, interpret, ...</li> <li>Science is leading, well defined qualities and limitations of the human eye, brain, hands dictate the design. A design should be tailored to humans, not vice versa.</li> <li>I will ignore the usual personal preferences, opinions, etc with remarks like: Mate how interesting, I think you should go and tell someone who cares!</li></ul> <p>The term <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=function+psychology&ns0=1&fulltext=Search">function psychology</a></span> seems unknown in the English Wikipedia, well the whole English speaking world. There are bits and pieces of design theory coming from people like <a href="/wiki/Jakob_Nielsen_(usability_consultant)" title="Jakob Nielsen (usability consultant)">Jakob Nielsen (usability consultant)</a>, <a href="/wiki/Bruce_Tognazzini" title="Bruce Tognazzini">Bruce Tognazzini</a>, <a href="/wiki/Don_Norman" title="Don Norman">Don_Norman</a>, the late <a href="/wiki/Jef_Raskin" title="Jef Raskin">Jef Raskin</a> and his son <a href="/wiki/Aza_Raskin" title="Aza Raskin">Aza</a>, <a href="/wiki/Edward_Tufte" title="Edward Tufte">Edward Tufte</a>, <a href="/wiki/Alan_Cooper" title="Alan Cooper">Alan Cooper</a>. But names like <a href="/wiki/Lev_Vygotsky" title="Lev Vygotsky">Лев Выготский</a> and <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=Leonard+Verhoef&ns0=1&fulltext=Search">Leonard Verhoef</a></span> are almost unknown. </p><p>So well... you may be in for a few surprises. Working with me may be tough, no guarantees, but happy to give it a go. <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241024093600-Top_100_medical_calculators" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:36, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241024093600-Top_100_medical_calculators"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241024093600-Top_100_medical_calculators"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241024095400-Uwappa-20241024093600"></span>IU is international units… GFR is glomerular filtration rate. We can see how it goes. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241024095400-Uwappa-20241024093600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:54, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241024095400-Uwappa-20241024093600"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241024095400-Uwappa-20241024093600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241024211100-Doc_James-20241024095400"></span>Ha ha ha, asif 'glomerular filtration rate' is plain English, not incomprehensible medical jargon to me. Sorry, but my medical knowledge is very limited indeed. <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241024211100-Doc_James-20241024095400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241024211100-Doc_James-20241024095400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241024211100-Doc_James-20241024095400"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241024215400-Doc_James-20241024095400"></span>Smile, I looked up <a href="/wiki/Glomerular_filtration_rate" title="Glomerular filtration rate">Glomerular_filtration_rate</a> in Wikipedia.</dd> <dd>The first sentence is reads for me as:</dd> <dd>"*** functions include maintaining an ***; regulating fluid balance; regulating ***, ***, and other ***;"</dd> <dd>I am already lost at the very first word and it does not have a hyperlink to another page.</dd> <dd>It has something to do with regulating fluid levels, but I am completely clueless what kind of fluids that would be. <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241024215400-Doc_James-20241024095400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 24 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241024215400-Doc_James-20241024095400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241024215400-Doc_James-20241024095400"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="out_of_the_woods?" data-mw-thread-id="h-out_of_the_woods?-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241026232700"><span id="out_of_the_woods.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-out_of_the_woods?-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241026232700"></span>out of the woods?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-out_of_the_woods?-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241026232700"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: out of the woods?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241026232700-out_of_the_woods?"></span>When you are out of the woods, please have a look at: </p><p>1. Some documentation for the calculator at: <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Information_hierarchy" title="Template talk:Body roundness index">Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Information_hierarchy</a> I expect the design approach for other medical applications to be similar: </p> <ul><li>Let the computer do all the number crunching, focus on human efficiency, not computer efficiency.</li> <li>show categories based on patient values, generally speaking ranging from deadly to healthy.</li> <li>in an environment outside wikipedia patient values are probably digitally available. Maybe even with a history. Mrs. Jones, things look a lot better for you than last month!</li></ul> <dl><dd>Related <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Should_this_calculator_be_part_of_WikiProject_Medicine?" title="Template talk:Body roundness index">Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Should_this_calculator_be_part_of_WikiProject_Medicine?</a></dd></dl> <p> 2. A design for a Body Roundness calculator, no input required, zero, just look at the chart, use height for Y axes, waist for X: <span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Body_roundness_index_graph.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Body_roundness_index_graph.svg/512px-Body_roundness_index_graph.svg.png" decoding="async" width="512" height="256" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Body_roundness_index_graph.svg/768px-Body_roundness_index_graph.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/91/Body_roundness_index_graph.svg/1024px-Body_roundness_index_graph.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="256"/></a></span> And yes, it does support both metric and imperial, without any input. Look mum, no hands! </p><p> 3. An idea for something similar, with 2 input variables, unit indepenent: <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Calculator#Dynamically_change_numeric_template_parameter?" title="Template talk:Calculator">Template_talk:Calculator#Dynamically_change_numeric_template_parameter?</a> That design is beyond calculator possibilities at the moment. </p><p> 4. A nasty bug in calculator 4.0. I can't find anything wrong in my own code, suspect that the calculator already hits a limit of formula propagation <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Bug:_risk_text_does_not_show_for_88" title="Template talk:Body roundness index">Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Bug:_risk_text_does_not_show_for_88</a> test it out yourself at <a href="/wiki/Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox" title="Template:Body roundness index/sandbox">Template:Body_roundness_index/sandbox</a> The calculator has a lot of hidden fields. A developer may want to see them all for debuging, change CSS class 'obscured' from display: none to display: inline to see all of the calculator fields. Be warned: there are a lot of formulas here at work, which eh... well cause the bug. Change 'class=obscured' for a row in the wikicode to see just some intermediate values. <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241026232700-out_of_the_woods?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:27, 26 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241026232700-out_of_the_woods?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241026232700-out_of_the_woods?"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Doc_James-20241027001900-Uwappa-20241026232700"></span>Away for a few weeks. Have asked Brian to look at that bug. <a href="/wiki/User:Doc_James" title="User:Doc James"><span style="color:#0000f1"><b>Doc James</b></span></a> (<a class="mw-selflink selflink">talk</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doc_James" title="Special:Contributions/Doc James">contribs</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Doc_James" title="Special:EmailUser/Doc James">email</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Doc_James-20241027001900-Uwappa-20241026232700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:19, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Doc_James-20241027001900-Uwappa-20241026232700"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Doc_James-20241027001900-Uwappa-20241026232700"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241027014800-Doc_James-20241027001900"></span>G'd on ya, thanks! That bug is kind of a worry at the moment. That limit could really f*** things up when calculators get complex using more than 2 input fields.</dd> <dd>As a reward, here is an idea for a brandnew state of the art medical tool for a check on central adiposity against WHtR no-health-worries upper limit of 0.5. (ha ha ha, that is about the max medical jargon I know)</dd> <dd>Here we go: <ol><li>take a piece of string equal to your height. If no string available, an old cloth will do fine too.</li> <li>try to wrap it around your waist twice</li> <li>too short? Bad news mate, you have health risks because of increased central adiposity, as defined at <a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#Suggested_boundary_values" title="Waist-to-height ratio">Waist-to-height_ratio#Suggested_boundary_values</a></li></ol></dd> <dd>Smile... this method was reverted from the WHtR page, because of some Wikipedia policy.</dd> <dd>Do you know anybody in the medical world that could publish this method in a reliable source after an official peer review? That would be just too deadly!</dd> <dd>And it is just too easy. A 3 year old in outback Australia would have checked the adiposity of the whole community against the NICE 0.5 WHtR limit while the western doctors are still struggling with the BRI formulas because their smartphone battery is dead, with no electricity in sight for a recharge. And I have yet to see classifications for BRI values. To me this is silly. How can you use meaningless numbers? The 3 year old will have 2 simple classifications: <ul><li>good</li> <li>too fat</li></ul></dd> <dd>A kind that is a few years older may invent a method of checking the lower WHtR limit of 0.4 by some fancy folding of the excess bit of string against the rest of it. Look mum, no batteries and uncle XYZ is too lean!</dd> <dd>I really wonder. Why would anybody use BRI over WHtR?</dd> <dd>Can't they see they are related and WHtR is just to easy.</dd> <dd>A tool used during debugging that caused a bit of turmoil, the WHtR to BRI converter here on the right.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Template:WaistHeightRatio_to_BodyRoundnessIndex_converter" title="Template:WaistHeightRatio to BodyRoundnessIndex converter">Template:WaistHeightRatio_to_BodyRoundnessIndex_converter</a></dd> <dd>While you are at it, how about a peer review for that converter? ha ha ha.</dd> <dd>Some other issues where a medic can help: <ol><li>Any reliable source for a classification of a WHtR value below 0.4? Currently the Calculator 4.0 displays an error message, because it lacks a NICE classification.</li> <li>How about using Zang's mortality graph for colour gradients behind silhouettes. See 2nd level of pyramid, right hand block of <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Information_hierarchy" title="Template talk:Body roundness index">Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Information_hierarchy</a></li></ol></dd> <dd>I've used Zang's graph for previous set of colours too, which were BRI based, with a terrible overlap against BMI classes.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Talk:Body_roundness_index#c-Uwappa-20241009125000-BRI_categories" title="Talk:Body roundness index">Talk:Body_roundness_index#c-Uwappa-20241009125000-BRI_categories</a></dd> <dd>And yes the calculator has a risk level, based on NICE classes at <a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#Suggested_boundary_values" title="Waist-to-height ratio">Waist-to-height_ratio#Suggested_boundary_values</a></dd> <dd>Now health risk and chance of dying might be very correlated, but health risk and dying are two different concepts.</dd> <dd>The line mortality graph would be perfect for a mapping to colour gradients.</dd> <dd>See colour work in progress at <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Colours_for_Body_Roundness_4.0" title="Template talk:Body roundness index">Template_talk:Body_roundness_index#Colours_for_Body_Roundness_4.0</a></dd> <dd>I think a green to dark red gradient would work great for the lower end of the scale. Please feel welcome to join in and get the discussion on colours going again, as it has been stuck in the mud for quite some time now.</dd> <dd><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241027014800-Doc_James-20241027001900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241027014800-Doc_James-20241027001900"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241027014800-Doc_James-20241027001900"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="That’s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox,_1_giant_leap_for_mankind." data-mw-thread-id="h-That’s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox,_1_giant_leap_for_mankind.-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241029121300"><span id="That.E2.80.99s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox.2C_1_giant_leap_for_mankind."></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-That’s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox,_1_giant_leap_for_mankind.-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241029121300"></span>That’s 2 small steps in a sandbox, 1 giant leap for mankind.<span data-mw-comment-end="h-That’s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox,_1_giant_leap_for_mankind.-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241029121300"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: That’s 2 small steps in a sandbox, 1 giant leap for mankind."><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241029121300-That’s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox,_1_giant_leap_for_mankind."></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259700704">.mw-parser-output table{background-color:#EDE4DD;border-radius:10px;color:#784B46;font-family:"OpenDyslexic",sans-serif;overflow:hidden}.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d20,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d25,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d30,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d35,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d40,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d45,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d50,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d55,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d60,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d70,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d80,.mw-parser-output button.whtr0d90,.mw-parser-output button.whtr1d00{background-image:url("https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg");background-repeat:no-repeat;background-size:16px 40px;height:42px;width:18px;background-size:cover}.mw-parser-output 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left,#fddbb0,#f4c2b0,#f2c6a3,#d6a76b,#d9a88a,#c68a3c,#c68a3c,#8d5f3e,#7d4b3a,#4e2b20,#3e272b);color:white;border-top-left-radius:10px;border-top-right-radius:10px;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .informationHierarchyHumanBlock a{color:#C2F8FF}.mw-parser-output .informationHierarchyInputGUI{background-image:linear-gradient(to top,#c68a3c,#4a4e69);color:white;border-top-left-radius:10px;border-top-right-radius:10px;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .informationHierarchyOutputGUI{background-image:linear-gradient(to bottom,#c68a3c,#4a4e69);color:white;border-top-left-radius:10px;border-top-right-radius:10px;text-align:left}</style> <div class="calculatorgadget-fallback">Please select in your preferences: <a href="/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-input-wpgadget-Calculator" title="Special:Preferences">Enables javascript Calculator template</a> to see a working calculator.</div> <table class="bmicalc calculatorgadget-enabled" style="display:none; float: right; margin-left:15px;"> <tbody><tr> <td class="prompt">Sandbox 4.1<br/>Body Roundness </td> <th><div class=""> <div style="width: 70px; height: 75px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -35px; left: -40px; width: 200px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Human_height" title="Human height"><img alt="US_Navy_110426-N-00332-114_Students_measure_the_height_and_body_weight_of_fourth_and_fifth_grade_students_from_Lindenwood_Elementary_School.jpg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/US_Navy_110426-N-00332-114_Students_measure_the_height_and_body_weight_of_fourth_and_fifth_grade_students_from_Lindenwood_Elementary_School.jpg/200px-US_Navy_110426-N-00332-114_Students_measure_the_height_and_body_weight_of_fourth_and_fifth_grade_students_from_Lindenwood_Elementary_School.jpg" decoding="async" width="200" height="133" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/US_Navy_110426-N-00332-114_Students_measure_the_height_and_body_weight_of_fourth_and_fifth_grade_students_from_Lindenwood_Elementary_School.jpg/300px-US_Navy_110426-N-00332-114_Students_measure_the_height_and_body_weight_of_fourth_and_fifth_grade_students_from_Lindenwood_Elementary_School.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/US_Navy_110426-N-00332-114_Students_measure_the_height_and_body_weight_of_fourth_and_fifth_grade_students_from_Lindenwood_Elementary_School.jpg/400px-US_Navy_110426-N-00332-114_Students_measure_the_height_and_body_weight_of_fourth_and_fifth_grade_students_from_Lindenwood_Elementary_School.jpg 2x" data-file-width="4256" data-file-height="2832"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div> </th> <th><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Waist" title="Waist"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Waist.svg/147px-Waist.svg.png" decoding="async" width="147" height="75" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Waist.svg/221px-Waist.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Waist.svg/293px-Waist.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="843" data-file-height="432"/></a></span> </th></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt" rowspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Anthropometry#Individual_variation" title="Anthropometry">Dimensions</a> </td> <th><a href="/wiki/Human_height" title="Human height">Height</a> </th> <th><a href="/wiki/Waist" title="Waist">Waist</a> </th></tr> <tr> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-height" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-min="1" data-calculator-step="1">180</span><div class="conversions"> <div class="otherValue"><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="height" data-calculator-formula="height+3"><a href="#calculator-field-height">+3</a></span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus3" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height+3" data-calculator-size="5">183</span>cm=<span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus3Feet0Dec" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightPlus3/30.48)">6</span><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.15em;">′</span><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus3Inch" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="round(heightPlus3/2.54-12*heightPlus3Feet0Dec)">0</span>″</div> <div class="otherValue"><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="height" data-calculator-formula="height+2"><a href="#calculator-field-height">+2</a></span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus2" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height+2" data-calculator-size="5">182</span>cm=<span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus2Feet0Dec" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightPlus2/30.48)">5</span><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.15em;">′</span><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus2Inch" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="round(heightPlus2/2.54-12*heightPlus2Feet0Dec)">12</span>″</div> <div class="otherValue"><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="height" data-calculator-formula="height+1"><a href="#calculator-field-height">+1</a></span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus1" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height+1" data-calculator-size="5">181</span>cm=<span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus1Feet0Dec" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightPlus1/30.48)">5</span><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.15em;">′</span><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightPlus1Inch" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="round(heightPlus1/2.54-12*heightPlus1Feet0Dec)">11</span>″</div> <div class="selectedValue"><span class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File"><a href="#calculator-field-waist" title=""><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Check_green_circle.svg/20px-Check_green_circle.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Check_green_circle.svg/30px-Check_green_circle.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/Check_green_circle.svg/40px-Check_green_circle.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightSelected" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height" data-calculator-size="5">180</span>cm=<span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightSelectedFeet0Dec" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightSelected/30.48)">5</span><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.15em;">′</span><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightSelectedInch" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="round(heightSelected/2.54-12*heightSelectedFeet0Dec)">11</span>″</div> <div class="otherValue"><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="height" data-calculator-formula="height-1"><a href="#calculator-field-height">-1</a></span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus1" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height-1" data-calculator-size="5">179</span>cm=<span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus1Feet0Dec" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightMinus1/30.48)">5</span><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.15em;">′</span><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus1Inch" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="round(heightMinus1/2.54-12*heightMinus1Feet0Dec)">10</span>″</div> <div class="otherValue"><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="height" data-calculator-formula="height-2"><a href="#calculator-field-height">-2</a></span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus2" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height-2" data-calculator-size="5">178</span>cm=<span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus2Feet0Dec" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightMinus2/30.48)">5</span><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.15em;">′</span><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus2Inch" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="round(heightMinus2/2.54-12*heightMinus2Feet0Dec)">10</span>″</div> <div class="otherValue"><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="height" data-calculator-formula="height-3"><a href="#calculator-field-height">-3</a></span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus3" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height-3" data-calculator-size="5">177</span>cm=<span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus3Feet0Dec" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="floor(heightMinus3/30.48)">5</span><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.15em;">′</span><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightMinus3Inch" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="round(heightMinus3/2.54-12*heightMinus3Feet0Dec)">10</span>″</div> </div> </td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waist" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="floor(height*whtr)" data-calculator-size="9" data-calculator-min="1">81</span> <div class="conversions"><div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr1d00" id="waist1d00" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="1.00"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist1d00"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*1.00" data-calculator-decimals="0">180</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*1.00/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">70.866</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d90" id="waist0d90" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.90"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d90"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.90" data-calculator-decimals="0">162</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.90/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">63.780</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d80" id="waist0d80" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.80"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d80"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.80" data-calculator-decimals="0">144</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.80/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">56.693</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d70" id="waist0d70" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.70"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d70"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.70" data-calculator-decimals="0">126</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.70/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">49.606</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d60" id="waist0d60" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.60"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d60"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.60" data-calculator-decimals="0">108</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.60/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">42.520</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d55" id="waist0d55" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.55"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d55"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.55" data-calculator-decimals="0">99</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.55/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">38.976</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d50" id="waist0d50" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.50"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d50"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.50" data-calculator-decimals="0">90</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.50/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">35.433</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d45" id="waist0d45" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.45"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d45"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.45" data-calculator-decimals="0">81</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.45/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">31.890</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d40" id="waist0d40" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.40"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d40"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.40" data-calculator-decimals="0">72</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.40/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">28.346</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d35" id="waist0d35" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.35"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d35"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.35" data-calculator-decimals="0">63</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.35/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">24.803</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d30" id="waist0d30" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.30"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d30"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.30" data-calculator-decimals="0">54</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.30/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">21.260</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d25" id="waist0d25" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.25"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d25"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.25" data-calculator-decimals="0">45</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.25/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">17.717</span>″</div> <div><span class="calculator-field-button whtr0d20" id="waist0d20" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.20"> </span> <span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-waist0d20"><span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.2" data-calculator-decimals="0">36</span>cm, </span> <span class="calculator-field" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height*0.2/2.54" data-calculator-decimals="3">14.173</span>″</div> </div> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt"><span class="anchor" id="WhtrPrompt"></span><a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio" title="Waist-to-height ratio">WHtR</a> </td> <td colspan="2"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistFormula" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="waist">81</span>/<span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-heightFormula" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="height">180</span> = <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-whtr" data-calculator-type="number" data-calculator-formula="waist/height" data-calculator-size="18" data-calculator-max="2" data-calculator-min="0.2" data-calculator-step="0.025">0.45</span><div class="whtrDetails">≈ <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-whtrRounded" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="whtr" data-calculator-decimals="2">0.45</span><br/><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.60"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.60</a></span><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.70"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.70</a></span><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.80"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.80</a></span><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.90"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.90</a></span><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="1.00"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">1.00</a></span><br/><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.50"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.50</a></span><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.55"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.55</a></span><br/><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.40"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.40</a></span><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.45"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.45</a></span><br/><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.30"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.30</a></span><span class="calculator-field-button" data-calculator-for="whtr" data-calculator-formula="0.35"><a href="#calculator-field-whtr">0.35</a></span></div> </td></tr> <tr class="silhouetteRow"> <td class="prompt"><a href="/wiki/Body_shape#Impact_on_health" title="Body shape">Roundness</a> </td> <td colspan="2"> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette1" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,1,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette1"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -0px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette2" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,2,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette2 WHtR0d25"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -50px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette3" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,3,1,0)">1</span><div class="silhouette3 WHtR0d30"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -100px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette4" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,4,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette4"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -150px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette5" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,5,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette5 WHtR0d40"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -200px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette6" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,6,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette6"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -250px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette7" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,7,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette7"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -300px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette8" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,8,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette8"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -350px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette9" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,9,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette9"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -400px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette10" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,10,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette10"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -450px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette11" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,11,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette11"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -500px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette12" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,12,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette12"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -550px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette13" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,13,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette13"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -600px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette14" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,14,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette14"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -650px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette15" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,15,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette15"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -700px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette16" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,16,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette16"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -750px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette17" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,17,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette17"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -800px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showSilhouette18" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(silhouetteRoundedBounded,18,1,0)">0</span><div class="silhouette18"><div class="center"><div class="center"> <div style="width: 50px; height: {{{cHeight}}}px; overflow: hidden;"> <div style="position: relative; top: -0px; left: -850px; width: 1000px"><div class="noresize"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png" decoding="async" width="1000" height="125" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/1500px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg/2000px-Waist_to_height_ratio_silhouettes.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></div></div> </div> </div></div></div> </td></tr> <tr class="obscured"> <td class="prompt">rounded bounded<br/>silhouette index,<br/>hidden </td> <td colspan="2"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-silhouetteRoundedBounded" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="min(max(floor(silhouette),1),18)">5</span> </td></tr> <tr class="obscured"> <td class="prompt">silhouette index,<br/>hidden </td> <td colspan="2"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-silhouette" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="whtr*20-3">5.876404494382022</span> </td></tr> <tr class="obscured"> <th>hidden </th> <th><0.4 >=0.4 </th> <th>>=0.5 </th> <th>>=0.6 </th></tr> <tr class="obscured"> <th>hidden </th> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-minwhtr4" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="min(0.4,whtr)">0.4</span><br/><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-whtrLT4" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="1-whtrGE4">0</span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-whtrGE4" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(minwhtr4,0.4,1,0)">1</span> </td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-minwhtr5" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="min(0.5,whtr)">0.4494</span><br/><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-whtrGE5" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(minwhtr5,0.5,1,0)">0</span> </td> <td><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-minwhtr6" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="min(0.6,whtr)">0.4494</span><br/><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-whtrGE6" data-calculator-type="checkbox" data-calculator-formula="ifequal(minwhtr6,0.6,1,0)">0</span> <p><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistNice0.4" data-calculator-type="hidden" data-calculator-formula="0.4*height">72</span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistNice0.5" data-calculator-type="hidden" data-calculator-formula="0.5*height">90</span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-waistNice0.6" data-calculator-type="hidden" data-calculator-formula="0.6*height">108</span> </p> </td></tr> <tr class="healthRisk"> <td class="prompt"><a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#Recommended_boundary_values" title="Waist-to-height ratio">Risk</a> <p><span class="calculator-field-label" data-for="calculator-field-showRiskCategory_0">WHtR<0.4</span> <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showRiskCategory_0" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-formula="whtrLT4" data-calculator-name="niceCategory">0</span><br/>0.4-0.5 <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showRiskCategory_4" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-formula="whtrGE4*(1-whtrGE5)" data-calculator-name="niceCategory">1</span><br/>0.5-0.6 <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showRiskCategory_5" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-formula="whtrGE5*(1-whtrGE6)" data-calculator-name="niceCategory">0</span> <br/>0.6<=WHtR <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-showRiskCategory_6" data-calculator-type="radio" data-calculator-formula="whtrGE6" data-calculator-name="niceCategory">0</span> </p> </td> <td colspan="2"> <p><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1257291628">.mw-parser-output .calculator-hideifzero.calculator-value-false{display:none}</style><span class="calculator-field calculator-hideifzero calculator-value-false" data-calculator-type="passthru" data-calculator-formula="showRiskCategory_0"><a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#Suggested_boundary_values" title="Waist-to-height ratio">Unspecified<br/>for WHtR below 0.4</a></span> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1257291628"><span class="calculator-field calculator-hideifzero" data-calculator-type="passthru" data-calculator-formula="showRiskCategory_4"><a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#noIncreasedHealthRisks" title="Waist-to-height ratio">no increased<br/>health risks</a></span> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1257291628"><span class="calculator-field calculator-hideifzero calculator-value-false" data-calculator-type="passthru" data-calculator-formula="showRiskCategory_5"><a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#increasedHealthRisks" title="Waist-to-height ratio">increased<br/>health risks</a></span> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1257291628"><span class="calculator-field calculator-hideifzero calculator-value-false" data-calculator-type="passthru" data-calculator-formula="showRiskCategory_6"><a href="/wiki/Waist-to-height_ratio#furtherIncreasedHealthRisks" title="Waist-to-height ratio">further increased<br/>health risks</a></span> </p> </td></tr> <tr> <td class="prompt"><span class="anchor" id="BriPrompt"></span><a href="/wiki/Body_roundness_index" title="Body roundness index">BRI</a> </td> <td colspan="2"><span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-bri" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="364.2-365.5*sqrt(1-pow((whtr/pi),2))" data-calculator-nan-text="Please come back after birth">2.376055806162810</span> ≈ <span class="calculator-field" id="calculator-field-briRounded" data-calculator-type="plain" data-calculator-formula="bri" data-calculator-decimals="2">2.38</span> </td></tr></tbody></table> <ol><li>unit-less input for height and weight. Any unit, a piece of string will do.</li> <li>play with WHtR to find healthy waist size.</li></ol> <p>Please: </p> <ol><li>Record the start time with accuracy in seconds</li> <li>Enter your own height</li> <li>Find a healthy waist size</li> <li>Record the end time</li> <li>How long did it take you, including the learning curve?</li></ol> <p>Next: </p> <ol><li>Record time again and try to find a healthy waist size for some friend or family.</li> <li>How long did it take you, without the learning curve?</li></ol> <p>Final: </p> <ol><li>How long does it take you to do this with the commercial tool?</li></ol> <p>I think the calculator just overtook the commercial calculator by a miles length, 1.60934 km for people using metric system. But who gives a s*** about units :D </p><p>Are there any serious competitors for the top 100? <a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241029121300-That’s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox,_1_giant_leap_for_mankind." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:13, 29 October 2024 (UTC)</a> Kudos to: <a href="/wiki/User:Cmglee" title="User:Cmglee">user:Cmglee</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:JMF" title="User:JMF">user:JMF</a> for sharing 'impossible' ideas.<span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241029121300-That’s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox,_1_giant_leap_for_mankind."><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241029121300-That’s_2_small_steps_in_a_sandbox,_1_giant_leap_for_mankind."></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="One_chart,_many_calculations_for_1_patient?" data-mw-thread-id="h-One_chart,_many_calculations_for_1_patient?-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241104194600"><span id="One_chart.2C_many_calculations_for_1_patient.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-One_chart,_many_calculations_for_1_patient?-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241104194600"></span>One chart, many calculations for 1 patient?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-One_chart,_many_calculations_for_1_patient?-Top_100_medical_calculators-20241104194600"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: One chart, many calculations for 1 patient?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Uwappa-20241104194600-One_chart,_many_calculations_for_1_patient?"></span>A paramedic assisted in a usability test today for the Body Roundness Calculator 4.1. </p><p>Have video of the whole test. That video won't make it online. Test subject prefers to stay anonymous and spoke local language, not English. Interesting results, back to drawing board again. Discussed zero input chart options. Got feedback: yeah, but you'll need many charts to cover all aspects of one patient. True... </p><p>Will be back with just one chart per patient, showing many calculator results in time. </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Uwappa" title="User:Uwappa">Uwappa</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Uwappa" title="User talk:Uwappa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-Uwappa-20241104194600-One_chart,_many_calculations_for_1_patient?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Uwappa-20241104194600-One_chart,_many_calculations_for_1_patient?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Uwappa-20241104194600-One_chart,_many_calculations_for_1_patient?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Signpost:_6_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024-20241106080300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024-20241106080300"></span><i>The Signpost</i>: 6 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024-20241106080300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: The Signpost: 6 November 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241106080300-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024"></span>From the editors: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/From_the_editors" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/From the editors">Editing Wikipedia should not be a crime</a></li></ul> <ul><li>News and notes: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/News and notes">Wikimedia Foundation shares ANI lawsuit updates; first admin elections appoint eleven sysops; first admin recalls opened; temporary accounts coming soon?</a></li></ul> <ul><li>In the media: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/In the media">An old scrimmage, politics and purported libel</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Special report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Special_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Special report">Wikipedia editors face litigation, censorship</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Gallery: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Gallery" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Gallery">Why you should take more photos and upload them</a></li></ul> <ul><li>In focus: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/In_focus" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/In focus">Questions and answers about the court case</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Traffic report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Traffic_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Traffic report">Twisted tricks or tempting treats?</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Technology report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Technology_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Technology report">Wikimedia tech, the Asian News International case, and the ultra-rare BLACKLOCK</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Humour: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-06/Humour" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-06/Humour">Man quietly slinks away from talk page argument after realizing his argument dumb, wrong</a> </li></ul></div> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost">Read this Signpost in full</a></b> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2024-11-06" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2024-11-06">Single-page</a> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe">Unsubscribe</a> * <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241106080300-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:03, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241106080300-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241106080300-The_Signpost:_6_November_2024"></span> </div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_1" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_1-20241107223300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_1-20241107223300"></span>Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin November Issue 1<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_1-20241107223300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin November Issue 1"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="plainlinks"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241107223300-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_1"></span><figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg/150px-Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="150" height="35" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg/225px-Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg/300px-Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="119"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <div style="margin-top:10px; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"><i>Here is a quick overview of highlights from the Wikimedia Foundation over the first half of November 2024. Please help <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin/2024/11-01" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin/2024/11-01">translate</a>.</i></div> <div style="clear:both"></div> <hr/> <figure class="mw-default-size" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:M%C4%81rti%C5%86%C5%A1_Bru%C5%86enieks.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiCelebrate Mārtiņš Bruņenieks" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/M%C4%81rti%C5%86%C5%A1_Bru%C5%86enieks.jpg/220px-M%C4%81rti%C5%86%C5%A1_Bru%C5%86enieks.jpg" decoding="async" width="220" height="147" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/M%C4%81rti%C5%86%C5%A1_Bru%C5%86enieks.jpg/330px-M%C4%81rti%C5%86%C5%A1_Bru%C5%86enieks.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/M%C4%81rti%C5%86%C5%A1_Bru%C5%86enieks.jpg/440px-M%C4%81rti%C5%86%C5%A1_Bru%C5%86enieks.jpg 2x" data-file-width="5760" data-file-height="3840"/></a><figcaption>WikiCelebrate Mārtiņš Bruņenieks</figcaption></figure> <p><b>Upcoming and current events and conversations</b><br/><small><i><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Community_Affairs_Committee/Talking:_2024" class="extiw" title="m:Wikimedia Foundation Community Affairs Committee/Talking: 2024">Talking: 2024</a> continues</i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>Commons Community Call:</b> The first <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:WMF_support_for_Commons/Commons_community_calls" class="extiw" title="commons:Commons:WMF support for Commons/Commons community calls">community call</a> with Wikimedia Commons volunteers and stakeholders to help prioritize support efforts for 2025-2026 Fiscal Year will take place on November 21. The theme of this call will be about how content should be organised on Wikimedia Commons. The call will be hosted by Chief Product and Technology Officer Selena Deckelmann.</li> <li><b>Conferencia Justicia climática Perú 2024:</b> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conferencia_Justicia_clim%C3%A1tica_Per%C3%BA_2024" class="extiw" title="m:Conferencia Justicia climática Perú 2024">Conference on climate justice, indigenous voices and Wikimedia platform</a> will be held in Huaraz, Peru from November 8 to 10.</li> <li><b>Affiliations Committee:</b> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation/Legal/Committee_appointments" class="extiw" title="m:Wikimedia Foundation/Legal/Committee appointments">Applications for joining the Affiliations Committee</a> is open until November 18.</li> <li><b>Ombuds Commission and Case Review Committee: </b><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation/Legal/Committee_appointments" class="extiw" title="m:Wikimedia Foundation/Legal/Committee appointments">Applications for joining the Ombuds commission</a> and the Case Review Committee are open until December 2.</li> <li><b>Language community meeting:</b> A <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/Community_meetings#29_November_2024" class="extiw" title="mw:Wikimedia Language and Product Localization/Community meetings">language community meeting</a> will be hosted on November 29, 16:00 UTC, discussing technical updates and problem-solving.</li></ul> <p><br/> <b>Annual Goals Progress on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Infrastructure" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Infrastructure">Infrastructure</a></b><br/><small><i>See also newsletters: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Newsletter" class="extiw" title="m:Wikimedia Apps/Newsletter">Wikimedia Apps</a> · <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Growth/Newsletters" class="extiw" title="mw:Growth/Newsletters">Growth</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Newsletter" class="extiw" title="m:Research:Newsletter">Research</a> · <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Newsletter:Web_team%27s_projects" class="extiw" title="mw:Newsletter:Web team's projects">Web</a> · <a href="https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Status_updates" class="extiw" title="f:Wikifunctions:Status updates">Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News">Tech News</a> · <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Newsletter:Language_and_Internationalization_Newsletter" class="extiw" title="mw:Newsletter:Language and Internationalization Newsletter">Language and Internationalization</a> · <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Newsletters" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:Newsletters">other newsletters on MediaWiki.org</a></i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>Advisory Council</b>: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PTAC" class="extiw" title="m:PTAC">The new Product and Technology Advisory Council (PTAC) was announced</a>. The PTAC will try to publish a set of community-validated recommendations that can serve as a potential 2-3 year blueprint for product and technical success.</li> <li><b>Wikifunctions</b>: The Abstract Wikipedia team is working toward a rewrite of our backend services in a different programming language, likely Rust. <a href="https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Wikifunctions:Status_updates/2024-11-01" class="extiw" title="wikifunctions:Wikifunctions:Status updates/2024-11-01">More status updates</a>.</li> <li><b>Tech News</b>: <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Extension:GuidedTour" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Extension:GuidedTour">The Guided Tour extension</a>, which help newcomers understand how to edit, now works with <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Dark_mode" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Manual:Dark mode">dark mode</a>; Wikipedia readers can now download a browser extension to experiment with potential features that <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content_Discovery_Experiments" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Reading/Web/Content Discovery Experiments">making it easier for readers to discover information on the wikis</a>. More tech updates from tech news <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/10/30/tech-news-2024-44/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/10/30/tech-news-2024-44/">44</a> and <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/10/22/tech-news-2024-43/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/10/22/tech-news-2024-43/">43</a>.</li> <li><b>Temporary accounts:</b> Logged-out editors on 12 wikis, including Norwegian, Romanian, Serbian, Danish, and Cantonese Wikipedia, receive <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Mylanguage/Trust_and_Safety_Product/Temporary_Accounts" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:Mylanguage/Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts">temporary accounts</a> now. This new account type enhances the privacy of logged-out editors and makes it easier for community members to communicate with them. <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/05/say-hi-to-temporary-accounts-easier-collaboration-with-logged-out-editors-with-better-privacy-protection/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/05/say-hi-to-temporary-accounts-easier-collaboration-with-logged-out-editors-with-better-privacy-protection/">Read the new Diff post to learn more about temporary accounts</a>.</li> <li><b>Mobile apps:</b> The Mobile Apps team has released an <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Apps/Team/iOS/Navigation_Refresh#Phase_1:_Creating_a_user_Profile_Menu_(T373714)" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Apps/Team/iOS/Navigation Refresh">update</a> to the iOS app’s navigation, now available in the latest App store version.</li> <li><b>Campaign Events Extension</b>: The <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/CampaignEvents" class="extiw" title="m:CampaignEvents">Campaign Events extension</a> is now live on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/CampaignEvents/Deployment_status" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/CampaignEvents/Deployment status">two more wikis</a>, Wikidata and the Spanish Wikipedia.</li> <li><b>Admin Retention</b>: A survey on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_Administrator_Recruitment,_Retention,_and_Attrition" class="extiw" title="m:Research:Wikipedia Administrator Recruitment, Retention, and Attrition">Wikipedia Administrator Recruitment, Retention, and Attrition</a> is open until November 11. As part of the Foundation's 2024-2025 Annual Plan, the research team and collaborators are studying recruitment, retention, and attrition patterns among long-tenured community members in official moderation and administration roles.</li> <li><b>Knowledge is Human:</b> The <a href="https://wikimediafoundation.org/our-work/knowledge-is-human/" class="extiw" title="foundationsite:our-work/knowledge-is-human/">campaign web page</a>, which educates visitors on Wikipedia’s model and why it’s trustworthy, has earned over 140,000 clicks. The campaign has increased pageviews on WikimediaFoundation.org by more than 50%.</li></ul> <p><br/> <b>Annual Goals Progress on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity">Equity</a></b><br/><small><i>See also a list of all movement events: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:AllEvents" class="extiw" title="m:Special:AllEvents">on Meta-Wiki</a></i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>WikiCelebrate</b>: From making a minor maintenance edit in 2005 to being one of the most appreciated Wikimedians in the Central Eastern European (CEE) region: this month <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/10/29/from-closing-tags-to-opening-collaborations-wikicelebrating-martins-brunenieks/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/10/29/from-closing-tags-to-opening-collaborations-wikicelebrating-martins-brunenieks/">we celebrate Mārtiņš Bruņenieks</a>.</li> <li><b>Wiki Loves Earth:</b> <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/10/25/mountains-birds-and-lakes-wiki-loves-earth-2024-central-asia-edition/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/10/25/mountains-birds-and-lakes-wiki-loves-earth-2024-central-asia-edition/">Mountains, Birds and Lakes – Central Asia Edition</a></li> <li><b>Future of Language Incubation</b>: As part of a new <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Future_of_Language_Incubation" class="extiw" title="mw:Future of Language Incubation">Future of Language Incubation</a> initiative to support language onboarding, Wikipedia is now live for five languages: Pannonian Rusyn, Tai Nüa, Iban, Obolo, and Southern Ndebele.</li></ul> <p><br/> <b>Annual Goals Progress on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Safety_%26_Integrity" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Safety & Integrity">Safety & Integrity</a></b><br/><small><i>See also blogs: <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/global-advocacy" class="extiw" title="diffblog:global-advocacy">Global Advocacy blog</a> · <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mailchi.mp/wikimedia/global-advocacy-policy-newsletter">Global Advocacy Newsletter</a> · <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediapolicy.medium.com">Policy blog</a></i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>Global Advocacy</b>: Reflecting on the anniversary of the EU’s Digital Service Act (DSA), Wikimedians share successes and public policy priorities at digital rights Global Gathering event, and <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/04/dont-blink-protecting-the-wikimedia-model-its-people-and-its-values-in-september-2024/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/04/dont-blink-protecting-the-wikimedia-model-its-people-and-its-values-in-september-2024/">more global advocacy updates</a>.</li></ul> <p><br/> <b>Annual Goals Progress on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Effectiveness" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Effectiveness">Effectiveness</a></b><br/><small><i>See also: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2023-2024/Reports" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2023-2024/Reports">quarterly Metrics Reports</a></i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>English Fundraising</b>: <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/10/22/the-road-to-launch-wikimedias-2024-english-fundraising-campaign/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/10/22/the-road-to-launch-wikimedias-2024-english-fundraising-campaign/">The Road to Launch: Wikimedia’s 2024 English Fundraising Campaign</a>.</li> <li><b>Fundraising Report</b>: Our <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising/2023-24_Report" class="extiw" title="m:Fundraising/2023-24 Report">annual fundraising report</a> for the 2023-2024 fiscal year is published. Last year, we had over 8 million donors giving an average donation of m:Fundraising/2023-24 Report0.58. We ran campaigns in 33 countries, 18 languages, and received donations from over 200 countries.</li></ul> <p><br/> <b>Other Movement curated newsletters & news</b><br/><small><i>See also:</i> <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:">Diff blog</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Goings-on" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Goings-on">Goings-on</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.planet.wikimedia.org/">Planet Wikimedia</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SIGNPOST" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SIGNPOST">Signpost (en)</a> · <a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier" class="extiw" title="de:Wikipedia:Kurier">Kurier (de)</a> · <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fr:Wiktionnaire:Actualit%C3%A9s" class="extiw" title="wikt:fr:Wiktionnaire:Actualités">Actualités du Wiktionnaire (fr)</a> · <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Regards_sur_l%27actualit%C3%A9_de_la_Wikimedia" class="extiw" title="fr:Wikipédia:Regards sur l'actualité de la Wikimedia">Regards sur l’actualité de la Wikimedia (fr)</a> · <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Wikimag" class="extiw" title="fr:Wikipédia:Wikimag">Wikimag (fr)</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Newsletters" class="extiw" title="m:Newsletters">other newsletters</a>:</small> </p> <ul><li><small><b>Topics</b>: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Education/News" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Education/News">Education</a> · <a href="https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/GLAM/Newsletter" class="extiw" title="outreachwiki:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM/Newsletter">GLAM</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter" class="extiw" title="m:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter">The Wikipedia Library</a></small></li> <li><small><b>Wikimedia Projects</b>: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_News" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia News">Milestones</a> · <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikidata:Status_updates" class="extiw" title="d:Special:MyLanguage/Wikidata:Status updates">Wikidata</a></small></li> <li><small><b>Regions</b>: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/CEE/Newsletter" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/CEE/Newsletter">Central and Eastern Europe</a></small></li></ul> <div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> <p><b><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin" class="extiw" title="m:Global message delivery/Targets/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin">Subscribe or unsubscribe</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin/2024/11-01" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin/2024/11-01">Help translate</a></b> </p><p>Previous editions of this bulletin are on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin#Issues" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin">Meta-Wiki</a>. Let askcac<span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="(_AT_)" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/16px-At_sign.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/24px-At_sign.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/At_sign.svg/32px-At_sign.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="145" data-file-height="145"/></span></span>wikimedia.org know if you have any feedback or suggestions for improvement! </p> </div> </div> <p><br/> <bdi lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a></bdi> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241107223300-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241107223300-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241107223300-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_1"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research" data-mw-thread-id="h-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research-20241113001800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research-20241113001800"></span>Reminder to participate in Wikipedia research<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research-20241113001800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Reminder to participate in Wikipedia research"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113001800-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research"></span>Hello, </p><p>I recently invited you to take a survey about administration on Wikipedia. If you haven’t yet had a chance, there is still time to participate– we’d truly appreciate your feedback. The survey is anonymous and should take about 10-15 minutes to complete. You may read more about the study on its <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Research:Wikipedia_Administrator_Recruitment,_Retention,_and_Attrition" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Research:Wikipedia Administrator Recruitment, Retention, and Attrition">Meta page</a> and view its <a href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Administrator_Experiences_2024_Survey_Privacy_Statement" class="extiw" title="wmf:Special:MyLanguage/Legal:Administrator Experiences 2024 Survey Privacy Statement">privacy statement</a>. </p><p>Take the survey <b><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://wikimediafoundation.limesurvey.net/294789?lang=en">here</a></b>. </p><p>Kind Regards, </p><p><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Research" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Research">WMF Research Team</a> </p><p><bdi lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/User:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User:BGerdemann (WMF)">BGerdemann (WMF)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BGerdemann_(WMF)" title="User talk:BGerdemann (WMF)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113001800-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)</a> </bdi><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113001800-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-BGerdemann_(WMF)-20241113001800-Reminder_to_participate_in_Wikipedia_research"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Signpost:_18_November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024-20241118234100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024-20241118234100"></span><i>The Signpost</i>: 18 November 2024<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024-20241118234100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: The Signpost: 18 November 2024"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241118234100-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024"></span>News and notes: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/News_and_notes" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/News and notes">Open letter to WMF about court case breaks one thousand signatures, big arb case declined, U4C begins accepting cases</a></li></ul> <ul><li>In the media: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/In_the_media" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/In the media">Summons issued for Wikipedia editors by Indian court, "Gaza genocide" RfC close in news, old admin Gwern now big AI guy, and a "spectrum of reluctance" over Australian place names</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Recent research: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/Recent_research" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/Recent research">SPINACH: AI help for asking Wikidata "challenging real-world questions"</a></li></ul> <ul><li>News from the WMF: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/News_from_the_WMF" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/News from the WMF">Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Endowment audit reports: FY 2023–2024</a></li></ul> <ul><li>Traffic report: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2024-11-18/Traffic_report" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2024-11-18/Traffic report">Well, let us share with you our knowledge, about the electoral college</a> </li></ul></div> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost">Read this Signpost in full</a></b> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Single/2024-11-18" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2024-11-18">Single-page</a> * <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/Subscribe" title="Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe">Unsubscribe</a> * <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241118234100-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:41, 18 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241118234100-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241118234100-The_Signpost:_18_November_2024"></span> </div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119001300"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119001300"></span>ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message<span data-mw-comment-end="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119001300"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="ivmbox" style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119001300-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></span></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> <p>Hello! Voting in the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2024" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2024">2024 Arbitration Committee elections</a></b> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024">eligible users</a></b> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. </p><p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. </p><p>If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <b><a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/813" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/813">voting page</a></b>. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <small><a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119001300-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:13, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119001300-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119001300-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message"></span> </p> </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_2-20241125181800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_2-20241125181800"></span>Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin November Issue 2<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_2-20241125181800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doc_James&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin November Issue 2"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="plainlinks"> <span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241125181800-Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin_November_Issue_2"></span><figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg/150px-Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg.png" decoding="async" width="150" height="35" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg/225px-Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg/300px-Wikimedia_Foundation_logo_-_horizontal.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="119"/></span><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <div style="margin-top:10px; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"><i>Here is a quick overview of highlights from the Wikimedia Foundation from November 7 to November 21, 2024. Please help <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin/2024/11-02" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin/2024/11-02">translate</a>.</i></div> <div style="clear:both"></div> <hr/> <p><b>Upcoming and current events and conversations</b><br/><small><i><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Community_Affairs_Committee/Talking:_2024" class="extiw" title="m:Wikimedia Foundation Community Affairs Committee/Talking: 2024">Talking: 2024</a> continues</i></small> </p> <figure typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Wikimania.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Wikimania logo" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Wikimania.svg/150px-Wikimania.svg.png" decoding="async" width="150" height="183" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Wikimania.svg/225px-Wikimania.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/57/Wikimania.svg/300px-Wikimania.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="99" data-file-height="121"/></a><figcaption>Scholarships open for Wikimania 2025</figcaption></figure> <ul><li><b>Conversation with the trustees:</b> Speak directly with the Wikimedia Foundation trustees about their work at the <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Community_Affairs_Committee/2024-11-27_Conversation_with_Trustees" class="extiw" title="m:Wikimedia Foundation Community Affairs Committee/2024-11-27 Conversation with Trustees">next Conversation with the Trustees</a> on 27 November from 12:00 – 13:30 UTC.</li> <li><b>Wikimedia Hackathon:</b> <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/13/registration-is-now-open-for-the-2025-wikimedia-hackathon/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/13/registration-is-now-open-for-the-2025-wikimedia-hackathon/">Registration is now open</a> for the 2025 Wikimedia Hackathon which will be held in Istanbul, Turkey, May 2–4, 2025.</li> <li><b>Language Community:</b> <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/Community_meetings#29_November_2024" class="extiw" title="mw:Wikimedia Language and Product Localization/Community meetings">The next language community meeting</a> will be held on November 29 at 16:00 UTC.</li> <li><b>Wikimania 2025:</b> <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/07/apply-for-a-scholarship-for-wikimania-2025/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/07/apply-for-a-scholarship-for-wikimania-2025/">Application for scholarship</a> to attend Wikimania 2025 in Nairobi is open until the end of December 8.</li> <li><b>Central Asian WikiCon:</b> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Central_Asian_WikiCon_2025" class="extiw" title="m:Central Asian WikiCon 2025">The Central Asian WikiCon 2025</a> will take place on April 19–20, 2025, in Tashkent, Uzbekistan. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdcEkOAaScx42HW_xvo4Oi_y3ZM5IEQ9P_fln4-gVehxLmbrQ/viewform">Applications to be part of the Program and Scholarship Committee</a> is open until November 30.</li></ul> <p><b>Annual Goals Progress on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Infrastructure" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Infrastructure">Infrastructure</a></b><br/><small><i>See also newsletters: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Apps/Newsletter" class="extiw" title="m:Wikimedia Apps/Newsletter">Wikimedia Apps</a> · <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Growth/Newsletters" class="extiw" title="mw:Growth/Newsletters">Growth</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Newsletter" class="extiw" title="m:Research:Newsletter">Research</a> · <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Newsletter:Web_team%27s_projects" class="extiw" title="mw:Newsletter:Web team's projects">Web</a> · <a href="https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/WikiFunctions:Status_updates" class="extiw" title="f:WikiFunctions:Status updates">Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Tech/News">Tech News</a> · <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Newsletter:Language_and_Internationalization_Newsletter" class="extiw" title="mw:Newsletter:Language and Internationalization Newsletter">Language and Internationalization</a> · <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:Newsletters" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:Newsletters">other newsletters on MediaWiki.org</a></i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>Tech News:</b> Admins and users of the Wikimedia projects <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Moderator_Tools/Automoderator#Usage" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Moderator Tools/Automoderator">where Automoderator is enabled</a> can now monitor and evaluate important metrics related to Automoderator's actions; Stewards can now make <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Global_blocks" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Global blocks">global account blocks</a> cause global <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Autoblock" class="extiw" title="mw:Special:MyLanguage/Autoblock">autoblocks</a>. Learn about the latest tech updates from tech news <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/04/tech-news-2024-45/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/04/tech-news-2024-45/">45</a>, <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/12/tech-news-2024-46/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/12/tech-news-2024-46/">46</a>, and <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org//024/11/19/tech-news-2024-47/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:/024/11/19/tech-news-2024-47/">47</a>.</li> <li><b>Wikifunctions</b>: <a href="https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/WikiFunctions:Status_updates/2024-11-13" class="extiw" title="f:WikiFunctions:Status updates/2024-11-13">Wikifunctions now has a new Type</a>: <a class="external text" href="https://www.wikifunctions.org/view/en/Z19677">rational numbers</a>. They expand the ability to deal with numbers considerably, allowing us to work with fractions and decimals, and not just whole numbers anymore. <a href="https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/WikiFunctions:Status_updates" class="extiw" title="f:WikiFunctions:Status updates">More status updates</a>.</li> <li><b>Temporary accounts:</b> We are rolling out <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Temporary_accounts" class="extiw" title="mw:Help:Temporary accounts">temporary accounts for unregistered (logged-out) editors</a> for more wikis including Romanian, Serbian, Danish, and Norwegian Bokmål.</li></ul> <p><b>Annual Goals Progress on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Equity">Equity</a></b><br/><small><i>See also a list of all movement events: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:AllEvents" class="extiw" title="m:Special:AllEvents">on Meta-Wiki</a></i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>Language & Internationalization:</b> <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Language_and_Product_Localization/Newsletter/2024/October" class="extiw" title="mw:Wikimedia Language and Product Localization/Newsletter/2024/October">The fifth edition of the Language & Internationalization newsletter</a> is available. Some <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/06/language-and-internationalization-newsletters-5/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/06/language-and-internationalization-newsletters-5/">key highlights</a>: Mooré Wikipedia is live; Keyboard Layouts for Multiple Languages Added; New Projects Added to Translatewiki.net.</li> <li><b>Wikimedia Research Showcase</b>: Watch <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://youtube.com/live/oH0PCNIzF0E?feature=share">the latest showcase</a> which looked at <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Research/Showcase" class="extiw" title="mw:Wikimedia Research/Showcase"> external factors that help different language versions of Wikipedia thrive</a>.</li> <li><b>Wikipedia Library</b>: <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/18/whats-new-in-the-wikipedia-library-july-september-2024/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/18/whats-new-in-the-wikipedia-library-july-september-2024/">What's new</a> in the Wikipedia Library?</li> <li><b>Tulu Wikisource</b>: <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/19/welcoming-tulu-wikisource/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/19/welcoming-tulu-wikisource/">Welcoming</a> Tulu Wikisource.</li> <li><b>CEE Meeting 2024</b>: <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/19/central-asian-community-members-experiences-and-highlights-from-the-cee-meeting-2024/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/19/central-asian-community-members-experiences-and-highlights-from-the-cee-meeting-2024/">Highlights</a> from Central Asian community members at the CEE Meeting 2024.</li> <li><b>Let's Connect:</b> Let's Connect Learning clinic on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Event:Let%27s_Connect_Learning_Clinic:_Gender_Sensitivity_Training" class="extiw" title="m:Event:Let's Connect Learning Clinic: Gender Sensitivity Training">Gender Sensitivity Training within Wikimedia communities</a> was held on November 22.</li></ul> <p><b>Annual Goals Progress on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Effectiveness" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2024-2025/Goals/Effectiveness">Effectiveness</a></b><br/><small><i>See also: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Annual_Plan/2023-2024/Reports" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Annual Plan/2023-2024/Reports">quarterly Metrics Reports</a></i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>Audit reports 2023-24:</b> <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/07/highlights-from-the-fiscal-year-2023-2024-wikimedia-foundation-and-wikimedia-endowment-audit-reports/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/07/highlights-from-the-fiscal-year-2023-2024-wikimedia-foundation-and-wikimedia-endowment-audit-reports/">Highlights</a> from the fiscal year 2023–2024 Wikimedia Foundation and Wikimedia Endowment audit reports.</li> <li><b>Wikimedia Enterprise:</b> <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/2024/11/07/wikimedia-enterprise-financial-report-fiscal-year-2023-2024/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:2024/11/07/wikimedia-enterprise-financial-report-fiscal-year-2023-2024/">Financial report</a> of Wikimedia Enterprise for the fiscal year 2023–2024.</li></ul> <p><b>Board and Board committee updates</b><br/><small><i>See <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard">Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee/News" class="extiw" title="m:Affiliations Committee/News">Affiliations Committee Newsletter</a></i></small> </p> <ul><li><b>Board Updates</b>: The Board met in Katowice, Poland on August 5 and held its quarterly business meeting before Wikimania. Learn more about the <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard" class="extiw" title="m:Wikimedia Foundation Board noticeboard">outcomes of the meeting</a>.</li> <li><b>AffCom</b>: The Affiliates Committee has <a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/2UUDICRTMP3KTCZLW6LW25MRM6ZZCMCK/" class="extiw" title="listarchive:list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/2UUDICRTMP3KTCZLW6LW25MRM6ZZCMCK/">resumed User Group recognition work</a> after a pause to improve the User Group recognition process.</li></ul> <p><b>Other Movement curated newsletters & news</b><br/><small><i>See also:</i> <a href="https://diff.wikimedia.org/" class="extiw" title="diffblog:">Diff blog</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Goings-on" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Goings-on">Goings-on</a> · <a class="external text" href="https://en.planet.wikimedia.org/">Planet Wikimedia</a> · <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SIGNPOST" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SIGNPOST">Signpost (en)</a> · <a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Kurier" class="extiw" title="de:Wikipedia:Kurier">Kurier (de)</a> · <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fr:Wiktionnaire:Actualit%C3%A9s" class="extiw" title="wikt:fr:Wiktionnaire:Actualités">Actualités du Wiktionnaire (fr)</a> · <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Regards_sur_l%27actualit%C3%A9_de_la_Wikimedia" class="extiw" title="fr:Wikipédia:Regards sur l'actualité de la Wikimedia">Regards sur l’actualité de la Wikimedia (fr)</a> · <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Wikimag" class="extiw" title="fr:Wikipédia:Wikimag">Wikimag (fr)</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Newsletters" class="extiw" title="m:Newsletters">other newsletters</a>:</small> </p> <ul><li><small><b>Topics</b>: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Education/News" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Education/News">Education</a> · <a href="https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/GLAM/Newsletter" class="extiw" title="outreachwiki:Special:MyLanguage/GLAM/Newsletter">GLAM</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter" class="extiw" title="m:The Wikipedia Library/Newsletter">The Wikipedia Library</a></small></li> <li><small><b>Wikimedia Projects</b>: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_News" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia News">Milestones</a> · <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikidata:Status_updates" class="extiw" title="d:Special:MyLanguage/Wikidata:Status updates">Wikidata</a></small></li> <li><small><b>Regions</b>: <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/CEE/Newsletter" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/CEE/Newsletter">Central and Eastern Europe</a></small></li></ul> <div style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> <p><b><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Global_message_delivery/Targets/Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin" class="extiw" title="m:Global message delivery/Targets/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin">Subscribe or unsubscribe</a> · <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin/2024/11-02" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin/2024/11-02">Help translate</a></b> </p><p>Previous editions of this bulletin are on <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia_Foundation_Bulletin#Issues" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Wikimedia Foundation Bulletin">Meta-Wiki</a>. 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