Transcript: Dr. Scott Gottlieb on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," March 23, 2025

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Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner, that aired on \"Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan\" on March 23, 2025.MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to America\u0027s health care system and former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He\u0027s also a board member at Pfizer. Welcome back to Face the Nation.\u00a0DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thank you.\u00a0MARGARET BRENNAN: So measles is now in 18 states, as I understand it, mostly Texas and New Mexico, but we have seen a growing number of infections, particularly in children. What do parents need to know and are adults protected?DR. GOTTLIEB: Adults who have been vaccinated should be protected. This vaccine provides durable immunity, and there\u0027s no recommendation that anyone who has already been vaccinated, had the full schedule of two doses of vaccine when they were children would need to get another booster, but if people are concerned, they can check their titers. The only recommendation that CDC makes is people who are taking care of those with measles, perhaps health care workers might consider an additional booster later in life. The bigger challenge is with children. So children get vaccinated, as you know, at one year, and then again when they\u0027re entering school, around age four. There\u0027s a window where children probably don\u0027t have a lot of immunity. So a child born has some immunity passed from their mom up until about six months, but there\u0027s a window between six and 12 months where they\u0027re largely unprotected. Typically, we don\u0027t vaccinate at six months because babies don\u0027t have developed immune systems where they can develop a durable immunity from an immunization like this, but there are some recommendations now that children between the ages of six and 12 months might get a first dose of vaccine. They would still require a second dose at age one and a third dose at age four.\u00a0MARGARET BRENNAN: I saw the former CDC director Rochelle Walensky was talking about that this past week. The current Secretary of HHS Secretary Kennedy has said he wants anyone who desires the vaccine, MMR, to be able to get one, but he also describes himself as a quote \u0027freedom of choice person.\u0027 I want to get your analysis of what seemed to be a suggested alternative treatment.SECRETARY ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR.: They\u0027re getting very, very good results, they report, from Budesonide, which is a steroid. It\u0027s a 30 year old steroid, and they\u0027re- and Clarithromycin, and also cod liver oil, which has high- high concentrations of vitamin A and vitamin D, and they\u0027re seeing what they describe as almost miraculous and instantaneous recovery from that.MARGARET BRENNAN: Are those viable alternatives?DR. GOTTLIEB: They\u0027re not viable alternatives to vaccination, and I\u0027d much- much prefer if he made a full throated recommendation to parents to get kids vaccinated, especially in a setting of the regions where this virus is now spreading. He\u0027s talking about steroids and antibiotics. Those would be used in the setting of a child who\u0027s developed Pneumonitis, is hospitalized, has respiratory distress, and so you might dose them with antibiotics to prevent secondary infections, and the steroids can reduce some of the inflammation in the lungs. The hope is, children don\u0027t get into that kind of distress situation because they\u0027ve been vaccinated. As far as vitamin A is concerned, there\u0027s really scant evidence that it\u0027s effective in this setting. It\u0027s used in the setting of malnourished children, where it might provide some benefit, but I think talking about those kinds of therapeutics in this context creates a false impression that there\u0027s treatments available for measles, when in fact, there\u0027s not. The only way to prevent measles and prevent the sequela from measles is to get vaccinated. You know, it\u0027s the same way people may consider whether or not they choose to get vaccinated for influenza, for the flu. Some people might make a decision not to get vaccinated because they know therapeutics are available. I certainly wouldn\u0027t recommend that- that they do that. I think everyone should get vaccinated for influenza, but some people might make that choice. There is no choice in this setting. There\u0027s nothing effective at- at mitigating the effects of measles once you get it, so the only way to do that is to get vaccinated.MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, the CDC website describes vitamin A as supportive care, but vaccination the best defense so thank you for explaining that. There\u0027s no CDC director right now. The administration had to pull their nominee, as you know, because they couldn\u0027t get enough votes. Alex Tin here at CBS is reporting Florida Surgeon General and a former Texas Congressman, Michael Burgess, are both being floated for the job. How important is it to get someone confirmed and in the role quickly?\u00a0DR. GOTTLIEB: Yeah, I think it\u0027s very important, especially when you see what\u0027s going on around the country with this measles outbreak in West Texas. We may have more measles cases this year than we\u0027ve had in 25 years, and so having leadership at the CDC that can direct that response is exceedingly important. Mike Burgess ran the Health Subcommittee on Energy and Commerce, worked closely with the FDA when I was there. He was very good, very effective. He did a lot- lot to advance our interdiction work in mail facilities to stop opioids from flowing through those facilities. He was very dedicated to that effort, actually visited the mail facility in New York at JFK Airport to see firsthand the operation, before he led a charge in Congress to help provide more funding to get more inspectors into those facilities. He has a lot of experience in a lot of the areas where CDC has a very relevant mission.MARGARET BRENNAN: And they\u0027ll have to face a potential vote once the president makes a selection here. I want to ask about some of the by-products, and some of them deliberate cuts from the president\u0027s so-called belt tightening here. There have been impacts at, for example, Johns Hopkins, an institute that does medical research and receives USAID grants. There are also deliberate cuts that have been vowed at Columbia and UPenn to universities that get federal funding and do health research. Do you have any insight into how many health programs or the significance of the health programs that will be affected?\u00a0DR. GOTTLIEB: Yeah, I don\u0027t think anyone has insight into it yet. I think this is still playing out. These impacts are happening across a couple of different domains. There\u0027s restrictions on the ability to go forward with new grants because of limitations, for example, posting things in the Federal Register. There\u0027s new grant making policies that are being implemented so certain entities, certain countries, are being added to lists where you can\u0027t do research. There were recently some grants canceled that coincide with research that would be done in conjunction with China. They\u0027re terminating certain grants on the basis of policy considerations like whether or not they have a certain DEI component and- and however they\u0027re defining that. And then you see the institutional wide cuts. I think that\u0027s what happened to Johns Hopkins with respect to the USAID cuts. It\u0027s also what happened to Columbia, with respect to that $400 million cut, federal cut, that impacted a lot of research. So there\u0027s multiple domains where they\u0027re being impacted right now. This is- this isn\u0027t all DOGE-led. I think we need to be very careful when it comes to research programs where patients are involved. Now, if you make a mistake with a program like a website that you took down, you can always put it back up. But when you cut a grant to a program where patients are involved with continuity of care is really important to those patients, you need to make accommodation for that or not make those cuts in the first place. I do know- I\u0027ve had some conversations. I think DOGE is aware of that and trying to be mindful of those impacts.MARGARET BRENNAN: It\u0027s an important point to be strategic when it comes to medical care. Dr. Gottlieb, thank you for your insight. We\u0027ll be back in a moment.","video":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@type":"VideoObject","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.cbsnews.com\/video\/dr-scott-gottlieb-says-rfk-jr-s-suggested-alternatives-to-the-mmr-vaccine-are-not-viable\/"},"name":"Dr. Scott Gottlieb says RFK Jr.\u0027s suggested alternatives to the MMR vaccine are \"not viable\"","description":"Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former FDA commissioner, tells \"Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan\" that Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.\u0027s suggested alternatives to the MMR vaccine are \"not viable\" and \"\u0027I\u0027d much prefer if he made a full throated recommendation to parents to get kids vaccinated, especially in a setting of the regions\" where measles is 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55"> <g fill="#f5f5f5"> <circle cx="5" cy="5" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="20" cy="5" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="35" cy="5" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="5" cy="20" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="20" cy="20" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="35" cy="20" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="5" cy="35" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="20" cy="35" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="35" cy="35" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="5" cy="50" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="20" cy="50" r="5"></circle> <circle cx="35" cy="50" r="5"></circle> </g> </symbol> </defs> </svg> <div class="embed__sticky-content lazyload" data-component="viewability" data-viewability-options="true"> <div class="player-overlay__container player-overlay--draggable " data-theme="default"> <div class="player-overlay"> <svg class="player-overlay--icon-grid"> <use xlink:href="#player-icon-drag"></use> </svg> <span class="player-overlay__title">Gottlieb: RFK's suggested MMR vaccine alternatives are "not viable" </span> <button class="player-overlay__button 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class="lazyload embed__frame" data-width="1920" data-height="1080" frameborder="0" scrolling="no" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen" id="dr-scott-gottlieb-says-rfk-jr-s-suggested-alternatives-to-the-mmr-vaccine-are-not-viable--hero" title="Video: Dr. Scott Gottlieb says RFK Jr.'s suggested alternatives to the MMR vaccine are "not viable"" data-sort-time="1742752774000" data-update-time="1742752774000"></iframe> </div> <button class="player-overlay__button--icon-close__mobile" data-target="" aria-label="Close sticky player"> <svg class="player-overlay__button--icon"> <use xlink:href="#player-icon-close"></use> </svg> </button> <div class="player-overlay--draggable-handle"></div> </div> </div> <figcaption class="embed__caption-container"> <a href="https://www.cbsnews.com/video/dr-scott-gottlieb-says-rfk-jr-s-suggested-alternatives-to-the-mmr-vaccine-are-not-viable/" class="embed__headline-link" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=""> <span class="embed__icon"> <svg viewbox="0 0 32 32" aria-hidden="true"> <use xlink:href="#icon-video"></use> </svg> </span> <span class="embed__headline">Dr. Scott Gottlieb says RFK Jr.'s suggested alternatives to the MMR vaccine are "not viable"</span> <span class="embed__video-duration">07:33</span> </a> </figcaption> </figure> <section class="content__body"> <p><strong><em>The following is the transcript of an interview with Dr. Scott Gottlieb, former FDA commissioner, that aired on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" on March 23, 2025.</em></strong></p><hr><p>MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to America's health care system and former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He's also a board member at Pfizer. Welcome back to Face the Nation. </p><p>DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Thank you. </p><p>MARGARET BRENNAN: So measles is now in 18 states, as I understand it, mostly Texas and New Mexico, but we have seen a growing number of infections, particularly in children. What do parents need to know and are adults protected?</p><p>DR. GOTTLIEB: Adults who have been vaccinated should be protected. This vaccine provides durable immunity, and there's no recommendation that anyone who has already been vaccinated, had the full schedule of two doses of vaccine when they were children would need to get another booster, but if people are concerned, they can check their titers. The only recommendation that CDC makes is people who are taking care of those with measles, perhaps health care workers might consider an additional booster later in life. The bigger challenge is with children. So children get vaccinated, as you know, at one year, and then again when they're entering school, around age four. There's a window where children probably don't have a lot of immunity. So a child born has some immunity passed from their mom up until about six months, but there's a window between six and 12 months where they're largely unprotected. Typically, we don't vaccinate at six months because babies don't have developed immune systems where they can develop a durable immunity from an immunization like this, but there are some recommendations now that children between the ages of six and 12 months might get a first dose of vaccine. They would still require a second dose at age one and a third dose at age four. </p> <div id="mpu-plus-outstream-middle" data-ad="mpu-plus-outstream-middle" class="ad-mpu-plus-outstream-middle ad-wrapper " data-ad-unit='"mpu-plus-outstream-middle"'> </div> <p>MARGARET BRENNAN: I saw the former CDC director Rochelle Walensky was talking about that this past week. The current Secretary of HHS Secretary Kennedy has said he wants anyone who desires the vaccine, MMR, to be able to get one, but he also describes himself as a quote 'freedom of choice person.' I want to get your analysis of what seemed to be a suggested alternative treatment.</p><p>SECRETARY ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR.: They're getting very, very good results, they report, from Budesonide, which is a steroid. It's a 30 year old steroid, and they're- and Clarithromycin, and also cod liver oil, which has high- high concentrations of vitamin A and vitamin D, and they're seeing what they describe as almost miraculous and instantaneous recovery from that.</p><p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Are those viable alternatives?</p><p>DR. GOTTLIEB: They're not viable alternatives to vaccination, and I'd much- much prefer if he made a full throated recommendation to parents to get kids vaccinated, especially in a setting of the regions where this virus is now spreading. He's talking about steroids and antibiotics. Those would be used in the setting of a child who's developed Pneumonitis, is hospitalized, has respiratory distress, and so you might dose them with antibiotics to prevent secondary infections, and the steroids can reduce some of the inflammation in the lungs. The hope is, children don't get into that kind of distress situation because they've been vaccinated. As far as vitamin A is concerned, there's really scant evidence that it's effective in this setting. It's used in the setting of malnourished children, where it might provide some benefit, but I think talking about those kinds of therapeutics in this context creates a false impression that there's treatments available for measles, when in fact, there's not. The only way to prevent measles and prevent the sequela from measles is to get vaccinated. You know, it's the same way people may consider whether or not they choose to get vaccinated for influenza, for the flu. Some people might make a decision not to get vaccinated because they know therapeutics are available. I certainly wouldn't recommend that- that they do that. I think everyone should get vaccinated for influenza, but some people might make that choice. There is no choice in this setting. There's nothing effective at- at mitigating the effects of measles once you get it, so the only way to do that is to get vaccinated.</p> <div id="leader-plus-inc3" data-ad="leader-plus-inc" class="ad-leader-plus-inc ad-wrapper " data-ad-unit='["leader-plus-inc",3]'> </div> <p>MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, the CDC website describes vitamin A as supportive care, but vaccination the best defense so thank you for explaining that. There's no CDC director right now. The administration had to pull their nominee, as you know, because they couldn't get enough votes. Alex Tin here at CBS is reporting Florida Surgeon General and a former Texas Congressman, Michael Burgess, are both being floated for the job. How important is it to get someone confirmed and in the role quickly? </p><p>DR. GOTTLIEB: Yeah, I think it's very important, especially when you see what's going on around the country with this measles outbreak in West Texas. We may have more measles cases this year than we've had in 25 years, and so having leadership at the CDC that can direct that response is exceedingly important. Mike Burgess ran the Health Subcommittee on Energy and Commerce, worked closely with the FDA when I was there. He was very good, very effective. He did a lot- lot to advance our interdiction work in mail facilities to stop opioids from flowing through those facilities. He was very dedicated to that effort, actually visited the mail facility in New York at JFK Airport to see firsthand the operation, before he led a charge in Congress to help provide more funding to get more inspectors into those facilities. He has a lot of experience in a lot of the areas where CDC has a very relevant mission.</p><p>MARGARET BRENNAN: And they'll have to face a potential vote once the president makes a selection here. I want to ask about some of the by-products, and some of them deliberate cuts from the president's so-called belt tightening here. There have been impacts at, for example, Johns Hopkins, an institute that does medical research and receives USAID grants. There are also deliberate cuts that have been vowed at Columbia and UPenn to universities that get federal funding and do health research. Do you have any insight into how many health programs or the significance of the health programs that will be affected? </p><p>DR. GOTTLIEB: Yeah, I don't think anyone has insight into it yet. I think this is still playing out. These impacts are happening across a couple of different domains. There's restrictions on the ability to go forward with new grants because of limitations, for example, posting things in the Federal Register. There's new grant making policies that are being implemented so certain entities, certain countries, are being added to lists where you can't do research. There were recently some grants canceled that coincide with research that would be done in conjunction with China. They're terminating certain grants on the basis of policy considerations like whether or not they have a certain DEI component and- and however they're defining that. And then you see the institutional wide cuts. I think that's what happened to Johns Hopkins with respect to the USAID cuts. It's also what happened to Columbia, with respect to that $400 million cut, federal cut, that impacted a lot of research. So there's multiple domains where they're being impacted right now. This is- this isn't all DOGE-led. I think we need to be very careful when it comes to research programs where patients are involved. Now, if you make a mistake with a program like a website that you took down, you can always put it back up. But when you cut a grant to a program where patients are involved with continuity of care is really important to those patients, you need to make accommodation for that or not make those cuts in the first place. I do know- I've had some conversations. I think DOGE is aware of that and trying to be mindful of those impacts.</p><p>MARGARET BRENNAN: It's an important point to be strategic when it comes to medical care. Dr. Gottlieb, thank you for your insight. We'll be back in a moment.</p>  <aside class="component list recirculation component--type-recirculation component--type-recirculation-collection"> <div class="component__heading-wrapper"> <h3 class="component__title">Face The Nation Transcripts</h3> <a href="https://www.cbsnews.com/feature/face-the-nation-transcripts/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a" class="component__view-more component__view-more--lg" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=""> More <svg viewbox="0 0 32 32" class="icon__caret-right" aria-hidden="true"> <use xlink:href="#icon-caret-down"></use> </svg> </a> </div> <div class="component__item-wrapper"> <div class="item" id="inline-recirc-item--id-39b6e785-0acb-4a4f-b150-3b9d18e2f018"> <a class="item__anchor" href="https://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-full-transcript-03-23-2025/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=""> <span class="img item__thumb item__thumb--crop-0"><img src="https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2025/03/23/70af0736-87d9-43f5-b8fd-73ace8b0328a/thumbnail/140x90/9caad88e0f6262104a1becaa7618bc20/1742754287742.png?v=95354023eeb6141c58c08d9a5716f291#" alt="1742754287742.png " layout="fill" height="90" width="140" class=" lazyload" data-srcset="https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2025/03/23/70af0736-87d9-43f5-b8fd-73ace8b0328a/thumbnail/140x90/9caad88e0f6262104a1becaa7618bc20/1742754287742.png?v=95354023eeb6141c58c08d9a5716f291 1x" srcset="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D'http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg'%20viewBox%3D'0%200%20140%2090'%2F%3E"></span> <div class="item__title-wrapper"> <span class="item__hed">Full transcript of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," March 23, 2025</span> </div> </a> </div> <div class="item" id="inline-recirc-item--id-fe738585-71eb-4513-846e-07e6a8d77507"> <a class="item__anchor" href="https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rand-paul-republican-kentucky-face-the-nation-transcript-03-23-2025/?intcid=CNI-00-10aaa3a" data-invalid-url-rewritten-http=""> <span class="img item__thumb item__thumb--crop-0"><img src="https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2025/03/23/690fba66-7c23-4873-95d4-0cd143771864/thumbnail/140x90/ae787e911b6f1fe6402c7eca975afb8e/1742750249022.png?v=95354023eeb6141c58c08d9a5716f291#" alt="1742750249022.png " layout="fill" height="90" width="140" class=" lazyload" data-srcset="https://assets2.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2025/03/23/690fba66-7c23-4873-95d4-0cd143771864/thumbnail/140x90/ae787e911b6f1fe6402c7eca975afb8e/1742750249022.png?v=95354023eeb6141c58c08d9a5716f291 1x" srcset="data:image/svg+xml,%3Csvg%20xmlns%3D'http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2000%2Fsvg'%20viewBox%3D'0%200%20140%2090'%2F%3E"></span> <div class="item__title-wrapper"> <span class="item__hed">Transcript: Sen. 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Transcript: Dr. Scott Gottlieb on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," March 23, 2025 - CBS News