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It’s Not."/> <meta name="sailthru.tags" content="Ellen Pao, paovskleiner"/> <meta name="sailthru.author" content="<a href="/author/alexia-tsotsis/" title="Posts by Alexia Tsotsis" onclick="s_objectID='river_author';" rel="author">Alexia Tsotsis</a> <span class="twitter-handle">(<a href="https://twitter.com/alexia" rel="external">@alexia</a>)</span>"/> <meta name="sailthru.description" content="Reddit CEO Ellen Pao took the stage today at the Code Conference in Southern California. 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It’s Not."/> <meta class="swiftype" name="object_type" data-type="string" content="post"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="url" data-type="enum" content="https://techcrunch.com/2015/05/27/just-look-at-the-numbers/"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="timestamp" data-type="date" content="2015-05-27 12:22:47"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="content" data-type="text" content="Reddit CEO Ellen Pao took the stage today at the Code Conference in Southern California. Though she is currently the CEO of popular news aggregator Reddit, which has 170 million monthly active users, Pao is perhaps best known for bringing to trial a gender discrimination and retaliation lawsuit against her former employer, Kleiner Perkins, this spring. Though Pao lost the case on four counts, she was a key catalyst in discussions around issues that had taken the Valley a long time to come to terms with, namely the lack of female and minority entrepreneurs and VCs. Kara Swisher opened the conversation with a very blunt "Do you regret doing this?" referring to the lawsuit. No, Ellen replied. "This is the worst thing that can come out of it and I'm fine," she said, looking more chipper than I've seen her in the two months since I sat in the courtroom following the Kleiner Perkins trial. "Have you become a symbol of something, and what is it?" Kara asked. "I didn’t plan on…"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="excerpt" data-type="text" content="Reddit CEO Ellen Pao took the stage today at the Code Conference in Southern California. Though she is currently the CEO of popular news aggregator Reddit, which has 170 million monthly active users, Pao is perhaps best known for bringing to trial a gender discrimination and retaliation lawsuit against her former employer, Kleiner Perkins, this spring."/> <meta class="swiftype" name="image" data-type="enum" content="https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/dscn0047.jpg?w=150"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="category" data-type="string" content="Startups"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="category" data-type="string" content="TC"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="category" data-type="string" content="Venture Capital"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="tag" data-type="string" content="Ellen Pao"/> <meta class="swiftype" name="tag" data-type="string" content="paovskleiner"/> <meta name="description" content="Reddit CEO Ellen Pao took the stage today at the Code Conference in Southern California. 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<div role="main" class="fluid" style="">  <article class="article lc"> <div class="l-two-col-expose">  <div class="l-main-container"> <div class="l-main">  <header class="article-header page-title">  <div class="tags"> <div class="tag-item"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/startups/" class="tag" data-omni-sm="art_articlecategory">Startups</a> <div class="links" id="tc-tag-item-startups"> <ul class="recirc-river river-small g g-1-2-1"> <li> <div class="block-small"> <a class="block-wrapper" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/07/yc-backed-vidcode-raises-1-5m-to-teach-teens-to-code-using-snapchat-filters-videos-memes-and-more/"> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640im_/https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/sep-animal-rescue-hackathon_26469446352_o.jpg?w=150" alt="YC-backed Vidcode raises $1.5M to teach teens to code using Snapchat filters, videos, memes and more"/> <div 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class="block-wrapper" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/07/shareiq-launch/"> <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640im_/https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/shutterstock_376524916.png?w=150" alt="ShareIQ helps brands track their product images across the web"/> <div class="block-content"> <h3>ShareIQ helps brands track their product images across the web</h3> <div class="block-meta"> <div class="byline"> <time datetime="2017-07-07 06:23:31"></time> </div> </div> </div> </a> </div> </li> <li> <div class="block-small"> <a class="block-wrapper" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/startups/"> <div class="block-content"> <h3>Browse more...</h3> </div> </a> </div> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="tag-item"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/topic/person/ellen-pao/" class="tag" data-omni-sm="art_articlecategory">Ellen Pao</a> <div 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It’s Not.</h1> <div class="title-left"> <div class="byline"> Posted <time datetime="2015-05-27" class="timestamp">May 27, 2015</time> by <a href="/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/author/alexia-tsotsis/" title="Posts by Alexia Tsotsis" onclick="s_objectID='river_author';" rel="author">Alexia Tsotsis</a> <span class="twitter-handle">(<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://twitter.com/alexia" rel="external">@alexia</a>)</span></div>  <div class="social-share social-share-inline"> <ul class="inline-list social-share-list" id="social-share" data-permalink="https://techcrunch.com/2015/05/27/just-look-at-the-numbers/" data-shortlink="http://tcrn.ch/1PO3vWL" data-sharetitle="Ellen Pao Says Silicon Valley Isn’t A Meritocracy. It’s Not." data-post-id="1162335" data-twitter-hash=""> <li class="total-shares"> <h5 class="total-shares-count">0</h5><br/> <small>SHARES</small> </li> <li> <a href="#comments" rel="external" class="comment icon-comment launch-social-load"></a> </li> <li> <a href="#" rel="external" class="facebook icon-facebook"></a> </li> <li> <a href="#" rel="external" class="twitter icon-twitter"></a> </li> <li> <a href="#" rel="external" class="linkedin icon-linkedin"></a> </li> <li> <a href="#" rel="external" class="google-plus icon-google-plus"></a> </li> <li> <a href="#" rel="external" class="reddit icon-reddit"></a> </li> <li> <a href="#" rel="external" class="stumbleupon icon-stumbleupon"></a> </li> <li> <a href="#" rel="external" class="email icon-email"></a> </li> <li> <a href="#" rel="external" class="flipboard icon-flipboard"></a> </li> </ul> </div> <div class="social-share social-share-fixed"> <div class="less"> <a class="blank"></a> <a class="icon-flipboard" href="#"></a> <a class="icon-stumbleupon" href="#"></a> <a class="icon-reddit" href="#"></a> <a class="icon-email" href="#"></a> </div> <div class="shown"> <a class="icon-facebook" href="#"></a> <a class="icon-twitter" href="#"></a> <a class="icon-linkedin" href="#"></a> <a class="icon-whatsapp" href="#"></a> <a class="icon-email" href="#"></a> </div> </div>  </div> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/2015/05/27/the-mary-meeker-internet-trends-2015-report/" class="next-link" data-omni-sm="art_nextstory"> <div class="next-story-link">Next Story</div> <div class="next-story-full"> <h4 class="next-title">The Mary Meeker Internet Trends 2015 Report</h4> </div> </a> </header>   <div class="l-two-col">  <div class="l-main-container"> <div class="l-main"> <div class="article-entry text">  <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640im_/https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/dscn0047.jpg?w=738" class=""/> <p id="speakable-summary">Reddit CEO Ellen Pao took the stage today at the Code Conference in Southern California. Though she is currently the CEO of popular news aggregator Reddit, which has 170 million monthly active users, Pao is perhaps best known for bringing to trial a gender discrimination and retaliation lawsuit against <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/2015/03/27/the-jury-has-reached-a-verdict-in-ellen-pao-vs-kleiner-perkins/">her former employer, Kleiner Perkins, this spring.</a></p> <p>Though Pao lost the case on four counts, she was a key catalyst in discussions around issues that had taken the Valley a long time to come to terms with, namely the lack of female and minority entrepreneurs and VCs.</p> <p>Kara Swisher opened the conversation with a very blunt “Do you regret doing this?” referring to the lawsuit. No, Ellen replied. “This is the worst thing that can come out of it and I’m fine,” she said, looking more chipper than I’ve seen her in the two months since I sat in the courtroom following the Kleiner Perkins trial.</p> <p>“Have you become a symbol of something, and what is it?” Kara asked.</p> <p>“I didn’t plan on becoming a symbol,” Pao said. “It didn’t turn out the way I wanted it to, but I became a symbol for different things.”</p> <p>“Are you the perfect victim?” Kara entreated. “Did you become somewhat of a cartoon figure?” she asked. (Interesting fact, the speaker portraits at Re/Code were drawn by the same artist who sketched the Pao trial, <a target="_blank" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/http://courtroomartist.com/">Vicki Behringer</a>.)</p> <p>“It’s a complex issue. People come to it with a lot of baggage,” she said, recounting stories of support. “Other people don’t like me because [of] what I represent: Silicon Valley not being a meritocracy.”</p> <div class="pullquote-wrap left"><blockquote class="pullquote">I didn’t plan on becoming a symbol.</blockquote><span class="pullquote-author-pos">— Ellen Pao</span></div> <p>Swisher continued a brusque line of questioning, bringing up all the chatter throughout the trial:</p> <p>She touched on whether or not Pao did her job well; whether or not she was likable; and what she thought of all the micro-aggressions that are the manifestations of sexism in the tech industry.</p> <p>“So there’s one thing you’re not invited to; is it such a big deal? But it adds up and a lot of people realize it’s not a fair playing field. I’ve had people say, my mom got moved into a broom closet when she got promoted,” Pao said.</p> <p>Swisher then referred to her former partner Megan Smith’s <a target="_blank" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/http://www.payscale.com/career-news/2015/03/google-chairman-manterrupts-female-tech-leader-at-sxsw-to-mansplain-need-for-diversity-in-tech">mansplain</a> episode, where Eric Schmidt, who apparently talks over people, talked over Smith at SXSW. Swisher wanted to know how we, as an industry, can solve “it,” in which “it” presumably is sexism on a macro scale.</p> <p>“It is hard,” Pao said. “Six months ago no one would have said anything. I’m sure [Schmidt] didn’t do it on purpose. He was just doing what he does. I’m sure he doesn’t aspire to be the guy who talks over women.”</p> <p>Swisher responded to this with an anecdote where a male VC had told her that the solution was segregated women VC firms and men VC firms. “Are you fucking kidding me?” Swisher exclaimed. “Where is the solution to this?”</p><div><div id="adsDivd5d272dfdd" class="native-ad-mobile"></div></div> <p>“If I knew, I would be telling you,” said Pao. “I’ve had investors say that they see this as an opportunity: ‘I’m going to find more women CEOs because I see it as an advantage.'”</p> <p>Pao also took issue with the “pipeline issue” excuse for not hiring diversely. “I hate the pipeline issue,” Pao said. “It allows people to say, ‘I’m doing my best, it’s out of my hands. There’s a whole slew of things that can make it more fair.'” Swisher said she felt the same way about unconscious bias: It allows people to absolve themselves of responsibility for bias.</p> <p>Pao said she did not think Silicon Valley, a place where it’s possible to have all white male meetings all day every day, was a meritocracy. “I think SV aspires to be a true meritocracy … but there is not an even track to success. No. With 6% women in VC, level of funding for women-led startups, it just doesn’t seem that that could possibly be the case.”</p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">We thought the status quo (ten white men in a room, on a board) made sense until people like Sheryl Sandberg and yes Pao started calling it out: “The status quo is uncomfortable for most people,” she held, “If I’m in a room with 10 white men, it doesn’t make sense.”</span></p> <p>Perhaps more people willing to admit Silicon Valley is biased will lead to measurable change? It’s encouraging that some numbers are changing: According <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/https://techcrunch.com/2015/05/26/female-founders-on-an-upward-trend-according-to-crunchbase/">to CrunchBase</a>, in 2009, 9.5 percent of startups had at least one woman founder, but by 2014 that rate had almost doubled to 18 percent.</p> <p>When asked whether the trial had impacted her career, she said, “Well, I’m not likable and I’m a poor performer … Yishan Wong took a chance on me. There were people who wouldn’t talk to me. It’s something that I would not recommend for other people. You have to weather through the personal attacks and people judging you.”</p> <div class="pullquote-wrap right"><blockquote class="pullquote">If I’m in a room with 10 white men, it doesn’t make sense.</blockquote><span class="pullquote-author-pos">— Ellen Pao</span></div> <p>When asked <a target="_blank" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletcher-ellen-pao">whether the coverage</a> of her husband’s legal and financial troubles in the context of her trial was fair or more evidence of sexism, she said, “I think it was really unfair. I think it was something that was intentional on the part of some people. And I thought it was something that would not have come up with other people. So I did not like that, no.”</p> <p>Pao said that she is trying to be the change she wants to see at her company, Reddit, after Swisher said that she was working specifically on racial diversity at Re/code.</p> <p>Pao’s steps:</p> <ol> <li>Make diversity something that everybody thinks about.</li> <li>Implement a “no negotiation policy” where you don’t negotiate salary. (She referenced studies that said that women are one-fourth as likely to negotiate for pay.)</li> <li>Cultivate and cull a diverse candidate pool.</li> </ol> <p>It’s a start. Tech and venture capital has much to learn from industries such as finance and law, which have been proactively working for more diversity for years (albeit, with <a target="_blank" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20170707200640/http://www.nalp.org/diversity2">admittedly mixed results</a>).</p> <p>It’s inevitable that, as more of us continue to “lean in” to startups, more of us will seek high-powered VC partner roles. 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No, Ellen replied.\u00a0\"This is the worst thing that can come out of it and I'm fine,\" she said, looking more chipper than I've seen her in the two months since I sat in the courtroom following the Kleiner Perkins trial.\r\n\r\n\"Have you become a symbol of something, and what is it?\" Kara asked.\r\n\r\n\"I didn\u2019t plan on becoming a symbol,\" Pao said. \"It didn\u2019t turn out the way I wanted\u00a0it to, but I became a symbol for different things.\"\r\n\r\n\"Are you the perfect victim?\" Kara entreated. \"Did you become somewhat of a cartoon figure?\" she asked. (Interesting fact, the speaker portraits at Re\/Code were drawn by the same artist who sketched the Pao trial,\u00a0Vicki Behringer.)\r\n\r\n\"It\u2019s a complex issue.\u00a0People come to it with a lot of baggage,\" she said, recounting stories of support. \"Other people don\u2019t like me because [of] what I represent: Silicon Valley not being a meritocracy.\"\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nSwisher continued a brusque line of questioning, bringing up all the chatter throughout the trial:\r\n\r\nShe touched on whether or not Pao did her job well; whether or not she was likable; and what she thought of all the micro-aggressions that\u00a0are the manifestations of sexism\u00a0in the tech industry.\r\n\r\n\"So there\u2019s one thing you\u2019re not invited to; is it such a big deal? But it adds up and a lot of people realize it\u2019s not a fair playing field. I've had people say, my mom got moved into a broom closet when she got promoted,\" Pao said.\r\n\r\nSwisher then referred to her former partner Megan Smith's mansplain episode, where Eric Schmidt, who apparently talks over people, talked over Smith at SXSW. Swisher wanted to know how we, as an industry, can solve \"it,\" in which \"it\" presumably is sexism on a macro scale.\r\n\r\n\"It is hard,\" Pao said. \"Six months ago no one would have said anything. I\u2019m sure [Schmidt] didn\u2019t do it on purpose. He was just doing what he does. I\u2019m sure he doesn\u2019t aspire to be the guy who talks over women.\"\r\n\r\nSwisher responded to this with an anecdote where a male VC had told her that the solution was segregated women VC firms and men VC\u00a0firms. \u201cAre you fucking kidding me?\u201d Swisher exclaimed. \"Where is the solution to this?\"\r\n\r\n\"If I knew, I would be telling you,\" said Pao. \"I've had investors say that they see this as an opportunity: 'I\u2019m going to find more women CEOs because I see it as an advantage.'\"\r\n\r\nPao also took issue with the \"pipeline issue\" excuse for not hiring diversely. \"I hate the pipeline issue,\" Pao said. \"It allows people to say, 'I\u2019m doing my best, it\u2019s out of my hands. There\u2019s a whole slew of things that can make it more fair.'\" Swisher said she felt the same way about unconscious bias: It allows people to absolve themselves of responsibility for bias.\r\n\r\nPao said she did not think Silicon Valley, a place where it's possible to have all white male meetings all day every day, was a meritocracy. \"I think SV aspires to be a true meritocracy\u00a0\u2026 but there is not an even track to success. No. With 6% women in VC, level of funding for women-led startups, it just doesn\u2019t seem that that could possibly be the case.\"\r\nWe thought the status quo (ten white men in a room, on a board) made sense until people like Sheryl Sandberg and yes Pao started calling it out: \"The status quo is uncomfortable for most people,\" she held, \"If I\u2019m in a room with 10 white men, it doesn\u2019t make sense.\"\r\nPerhaps more people willing to admit Silicon Valley is biased will lead to measurable change? It's encouraging that some numbers are changing: According to CrunchBase, in 2009, 9.5 percent of startups had at least one woman founder, but by 2014 that rate had almost doubled to 18 percent.\r\n\r\nWhen asked whether the trial had impacted her career, she said, \"Well, I\u2019m not likable and I\u2019m a poor performer ... Yishan Wong took a chance on me. There were people who wouldn\u2019t talk to me. It\u2019s something that I would not recommend for other people. You have to weather\u00a0through the personal attacks and people judging you.\"\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nWhen asked whether the coverage of her husband's legal and financial troubles in the context of her trial was fair or more evidence of sexism, she said, \u201cI think it was really unfair. I think it was something that was intentional on the part of some people. And I thought it was something that would not have come up with other people. So I did not like that, no.\u201d\r\n\r\nPao said that she is trying to be the change she wants to see at her company, Reddit, after Swisher said that she was working specifically on racial diversity at Re\/code.\r\n\r\nPao's\u00a0steps:\r\n\r\n\tMake diversity something that everybody thinks about.\r\n\tImplement a \"no negotiation policy\" where you don\u2019t negotiate salary. (She referenced studies that said that women are one-fourth as likely to negotiate for pay.)\r\n\tCultivate and cull a diverse candidate pool.\r\n\r\nIt's a start.\u00a0Tech and venture capital has much to learn from industries such as finance and law, which have been proactively working for more diversity for years (albeit, with admittedly mixed results).\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s inevitable that, as more of us continue to \u201clean in\u201d to startups, more of us will seek high-powered VC partner roles. It's up to CEOs like Pao and other hiring managers to make sure we're met with a supportive environment not just for our own good, but for theirs. As Kleiner Perkins partner Mary Meeker said during her slide presentation at Code this morning, \"The best decisions are made by diverse groups of people.\"\r\n\r\nPao has until June 8 to appeal her loss, but did not confirm onstage whether she would, \"We are still discussing with my legal team.\" \"I can\u2019t talk about it,\" she insisted, as Kleiner Perkins partner John Doerr watched the interview from the sixth row.","datePublished":"2015-05-27T19:22:47+00:00","mainEntityOfPage":"True","image":{"@list":["https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20170707200640\/https:\/\/tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com\/2015\/05\/dscn0047.jpg?w=680"]},"speakable":{"@type":"SpeakableSpecification","cssSelector":[".alpha","#speakable-summary"]}} </script> <script type="text/javascript"> window._taboola = window._taboola || []; _taboola.push( {flush: true} ); </script> <noscript><img 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